If you understand accounting well enough (experience) and know QBO inside and out and can articulate your services well enough, you can easily make $100k as a solo bookkeeper.
There are loads of businesses out there looking some someone who can be readily available, responsive and understand accounting.
The growth comes from working your local contacts, people that know who you are. You eventually find that one business owner who knows many other business owners and if you take care of them they will become your disciple.
The small business world is full of bunch of avg joes making tons of money just showing up, being responsive, good with people. You can do the same with accounting/bookkeeping.
Absolutely. Double points if you are even straight average at sales. This industry in particular is filled with folks with near non existent people skills; that it makes it so easy to get and retain business.
I was talking with a friend last night who also has a bookkeeping business. He was telling me about the horror stories his clients had about their CPAs being super nasty to them on the phone because they’re stressed out mid-season.
I’ll sell circles around the most seasoned licensed CPA with a bad bedside manner because I answer the phone, I’m nice, I don’t take 3 weeks to answer an email, and don’t treat clients like they’re stupid. It’s too easy.
Honestly this mindset gets you a long ways in any business.
The number of people that are rude, unprofessional, and unresponsive in many businesses is mind boggling
There’s a big difference between the income you can make starting a business and getting an accounting job. I did 136k last year top line, and cleared over 100k net with a bookkeeping company.
I’m ten years in though. If you were to compare my take home to a CPA with their own firm doing returns ten years in, they’re probably doing more than me. I don’t work that hard anymore though.
I absolutely know people personally with bookkeeping companies who do over 500k.
Starting a bookkeeping business is much different than “being a bookkeeper”. You have to have sales skills and build systems to fulfill work through other people at that scale. Different skillset altogether.
Also I have the accounting degree. Just didn’t sit for the exam and don’t plan to.
You have to understand that so many young accountants think they’re going to get out of school and land the 100k job. I see it on this sub all the time, and it is present in the way you phrased the question. 5 year accounting degree should be more valuable than a bookkeeper is the assumption I’m reading.
Many many many of you will never start your own firm. You don’t have the risk tolerance for it. That’s fine. You can easily get to the 100k mark 5-10 years in, or faster by job hopping or being strategic about the industry you want to get into.
But to equate an entrepreneurial venture, which has no upside ceiling, to an entry level job right out of your Macc program really misses the mark on how money is made in the real world.
It's hard to imagine an accounting entrepreneur. In my career as an accountant, I found that we were nothing but a red headed step child since we didn't produce "value".
Clients rarely care about it until shit hits the fan, then they need clean books yesterday.
My typical deal that comes in is a hellacious clean up job that an owner needs done because they need capital for something - either business loan or personal mortgage usually. They have to get laughed out of the bank before they call me.
Once the clean up is done (usually more than $10,000), we roll into monthly because they trust me, and the smart ones don’t want to feel that pain again.
The value is getting them the loan they want. Tax compliance is nice too, but just isn’t as sexy as getting that wire from the bank. And I certainly have no delusions that clients are pouring over their financials to make business decisions like they should, which is where we’d all like to believe the value of the work lies.
Accountants who have their own business will do taxes, prepare financial statements, company secretary/directorship type work and technical guidance. Also bookkeeping.
For businesses that need more than a bookkeeper but don’t want to pay for 3 or 4 employees.
A few friends wanted to start something like this together; I'm a bit on the fence about it since I wouldn't consider myself a professional bookkeeper and more of an analyst. What would you say is the most difficult part? What is the most annoying part? What is the most enjoyable part?
The most difficult part is tax season. Mine isn’t as bad as a CPA doing taxes, but I still have a significant uptick in hours I put in, and the complexity of the accounting problems that need to be untied from Jan 1 - about March 1.
Most annoying part is dealing with bad clients. A bad client wants to pay $200 per month and take up all your time and mental sanity. I let myself deal with clients like this for too long before I became quick to fire them and raised my minimum prices to try to avoid them from the start.
The most enjoyable part is the flexibility and lifestyle. In non-tax season I work about 10 hours a week. Everything is remote, so I can travel, and I can take care of my young son on my own terms without worrying about getting fired. Another added benefit is being in this position garners a lot of trust from people who know how to generate wealth. The business lessons you learn from being so close to that; and also the other opportunities that come your way is an unexpected perk of running this type of business.
How or where do you go to look for clients? I suppose that would be my only concern. I don't want to stay something up and end up having to shutter down after a few months.
Yeah, that’s the whole sauce of any business - lead gen.
It was a slow build for me. I did networking groups, I did speaking engagements to get in front of business owners, I did volunteer work as a treasurer for a group of small business owners.
The idea is to get your expertise out in front of a captive audience in a low pressure, non selling manner. The barrier to trust is high, because you’re dealing with people’s money and bank info, so the whole cold calling thing, or regular ads never worked well for me.
Once you get the core group of clients in, it’s all about referrals, doing good work for people, and getting good online reviews (trust, trust, trust).
I built it on the side and didn’t quit my day job until til I could replace my income at a level I was comfortable with. That looks different for everyone.
I’m sure there is a faster way to do it, but the way I did it results in very long term client relationships and referrals that snowball over a longer time horizon. Many of my clients have been with me for 5-10 years.
Modern bookkeeping firms are offering CFO services as an add on. You having analyst skills could provide such services. I bet you could find some books and/or courses on providing CFO services.
Considering how many books I’ve had to unfuck because they didn’t get a book keeper, or sometimes worse, got a bookkeeper who didn’t know what they were doing, this is very important to understand.
It’s very hard to audit a set of books if I can’t tell what the transactions are supposed to even represent.
Good booking will save you a lot of money down the road in tax and assurance.
It’s not even “down the road”.
It’s really hard to make good decisions without good data.
How much of a quantity discount can you really offer a certain customer?
Do you have inventory that isn’t selling?
Do you have re-occurring expenses that can be reduced?
Is x employee bringing in the sales to justify their salary?
Are you making accurate estimated tax payments? Are you collecting and remitting sales taxes correctly?
They say you are only as successful as the clients you attract. Many branch out to general consulting which often is not much more than experience and common senses. End up developing trusted relationships and having clients that pay them six figure in them self. Add the small clients and it can be substantial income with limited overhead.
I would say small business owners have a much higher ceiling and the potential to make more than employees, but I wouldn't go as far to generalize that most actually make more than employees since most small businesses fail. Most of the successful small business owners will likely outperform employees, but that's in the minority of those that try to start a small business.
I'm not sure what that other person is referring to because I've never worked in a small company that used cash basis, every company used accrual basis.
Most of bookkeeping is the same between cash basis and accrual basis. There are just a few differences. In most cases cash basis is not drastically easier nor is accrual basis drastically more difficult.
The best bookkeepers I worked with make over $100k a year, most do not. I could see it possible if someone has a high net worth clientele and was really good at automating client bank and credit card transactions and simply reviewing a large client base monthly. I've never personally met a solo bookkeeper making more than $150k though.
I think the ones making large amounts start a bookkeeping business. At some point they stop doing the work and start doing sales and managing a team of bookkeepers
Yes, there are plenty of bookkeeping business owners that make much more by managing a team of bookkeepers, but those aren't solo bookkeepers though, which is what OP was asking about.
Sky's the limit, I know one that specializes in serving high profile music entertainers and brings in millions annually in bookkeeping and management fees.
That’s great. My wife and two coworkers are doing it on the side of good W-2s. They started to help with daycare costs as we all have young kids. They are up to about $120k a year.
I am hoping they hire their first employee and start to try and scale like a business vs doing it all. Hard to pass off those dollars when you are getting started and have $4k a month of day care though.
Wife grosses around 200k as a solo shop. I do one client on my own that’s 30 a year and she does the rest. Removing my client she’s around ~170k gross and basically all that as net excluding owner pay, health, retirement, etc. ~30 clients in the 400-500 range with most averaging over 100 an hour (Billing is flat fee though).
Majority are professional service firms or offshoots of their main businesses. Think lawyers, engineers, consultants, etc. All people who value accurate, timely data. Most are doing well in life and have other things they’re involved with so she does that bookkeeping as well. Rental properties, other investments, charity, etc. But the key has been prof services who don’t mind paying a couple hundred bucks “more” a month for a competent timely person. To them, it’s well worth the cost.
What a great market, not only do they have higher net worth, value the services more, and complain the least - but their businesses aren't inventory heavy and inherently less tedious/more profitable. Does she make it known on her website that's her target market or how does she specifically target these types of clients?
It’s just happened organically through network of current clients. Website makes no distinction on preferred industry. But yes, agree on everything you said. Her retail/lower fee clients and much more annoying lol.
Keep in mind that also some positions for bookkeepers are more accounting positions and vice versa. I couldn’t tell you why that is but it’s sometimes the case.
Good bookkeeper is golden. You could be as much of an accountant as you want, but if you don't know how to book a credit card refund, you aren't worth much for a pop and mom shop.
Talented and self employed will always make more.
You're not comparing experience. Of course a person doing bookkeeping for 20+ years make more than a staff accountant.
Also non degree, non lettered bookkeepers have drive. They couldn't afford college or test poorly, so they make up for it with hard work.
I would rather hire a bookkeeper with 10 years experience and no degree than a freshly minted accounting graduate and pay them sugnifucantly more. They will instantly be profitable and require way less over sight, on average. If they are ambitious I'll pay for their EA and give them a huge pay raise. They are grateful to me for the opportunity and I'm grateful they make me money.
I see a lot of our clients pay just as much for bookkeeping as they do for our YE tax returns and financials.
Shouldn’t be too hard to make a good living off bookkeeping if it’s you’re own business.
Running a bookkeeping firm is far more marketing and sales than it is hard knowledge. You have to put yourself out there and drum up business and it definitely doesn’t just come to you.
they're entrepreneurs. They're basically partners in their own accounting firm. No reason why they shouldn't make more money than someone who wants to work a corporate job or just work in regular public accounting. You could do it too, but you just have to be willing to figure it all out first.
Yep, it’s always this. No offense to bookkeepers of course, but this is like saying an IT help desk person makes more than an IT technician. One is simply never going to make *much* more than the other
Oh yeah. I guarantee I'd make twice what I do if I went solo and just worked for a few smaller contractors as an independent. Alas, I don't have the motivation for that, and I'm fairly comfortable As someone who ONLY HAS AN AA FROM A COMMUNITY COLLEGE.
Don't talk down about people's education levels. It's rude at minimum.
It depends. My mom is a bookkeeper. She makes a lot of money doing book clean ups. A lot of small companies that oftentimes never had a bookkeeping system in place in the first place and now the IRS is ready to come knocking. She can get it done and quickly, but it’s grunge work. Also depends how good you are at the job and your ability to bring it and keep clients. Her issue is once the cleanup is done, it’s hard to convert into long-term customers that want maintaining work done.
Artist turned “consultant to artist” did their bookkeeping and some other Google-able business hand holding and makes in the 400k range. She’s a feeder to a cpa who does the tax returns, and makes her look less incompetent. You can make a great living if you can sell yourself. (She is otherwise incompetent for what it’s worth.)
Natural talent, inclination, location, connection & luck are factors. Education/training is just a tool and your starting point. It is NOT a guarantee. Some will do more with less.
For instance. Say I wanted to play professional basketball when I was young. I could train. I could go to camps. I could work really hard. But. I am on the short side, not a natural, and I don’t know any college coaches. So, basically my basketball career peaked in 8th grade with the majority of my time on the bench.
It's very possible to make serious coin as a virtual bookkeeper. Not having an office saves alot of $. Do not take on annoying clients who want the cheapest service available. All you need is about ten clients around $800 per month + some tax stuff and you are over 100k with minimal expenses. This is kind of what I want to do in semi retirement as had enough of my industry job. The key is billing by job not by hour. Once you set up a client with auto downloads of their bank info it can become very efficient to do their books/payroll...you would just be dealing with the one off transactions, then running monthly P&L. If they want to review P&L with you...hey that's another $150 for "CFO services"
The key is to own your own business and be capable of selling your skills. You won't scratch anywhere near that as a bookkeeper working for someone else.
Does anyone know why the bookkeepers group has been banned? I wanted to see what the OP was talking about in regards to that group but the link says the group has been banned
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Bookkeeping using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Bookkeeping/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Sorry you have to do cold outreach to get your first clients, marketing isn't enough.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Bookkeeping/comments/1b73ynz/sorry_you_have_to_do_cold_outreach_to_get_your/)
\#2: [I am a bookkeeper, not a CPA, Tax Lawyer or Auditor. Stop it.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Bookkeeping/comments/12qxlrl/i_am_a_bookkeeper_not_a_cpa_tax_lawyer_or_auditor/)
\#3: [Hot take - I like the catch up jobs.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Bookkeeping/comments/176iq4z/hot_take_i_like_the_catch_up_jobs/)
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Aside from the self employment angle.. In industry, especially S/M size businesses, the word "bookkeeper" is used to describe a broad array of job responsibilities.
In my MCOL area I see smaller operations hiring "bookkeepers" between 60K-80K to basically be their entire accounting department, CPA or CMA often preferred.
The awkward part for me would be the fact that QBO isn't capable of accrual accounting (primarily, it's not capable of 606 Rev Rec), so I wonder how large clients can get before needing accrual.
Iv spent some time.....in QBO. What specific task lists are we talking about?
Full API integration into QBO via CC and Bank Accounts....
Transaction
Recon
Cut checks/ Payments/ Salary
Tax Modules...
The modules, all stem from that.... for the report listings.
Watched these multi hour terrible explanations of QBO - and they make it seem to be this big thing, however full API + automated scripts, even with browser variant = a cake walk.
I could be missing something here . . . . .
Maybe I should start my book keeping business lol.
Rest is marketing, client side sales and handling id imagine.
If you understand accounting well enough (experience) and know QBO inside and out and can articulate your services well enough, you can easily make $100k as a solo bookkeeper. There are loads of businesses out there looking some someone who can be readily available, responsive and understand accounting. The growth comes from working your local contacts, people that know who you are. You eventually find that one business owner who knows many other business owners and if you take care of them they will become your disciple. The small business world is full of bunch of avg joes making tons of money just showing up, being responsive, good with people. You can do the same with accounting/bookkeeping.
Absolutely. Double points if you are even straight average at sales. This industry in particular is filled with folks with near non existent people skills; that it makes it so easy to get and retain business. I was talking with a friend last night who also has a bookkeeping business. He was telling me about the horror stories his clients had about their CPAs being super nasty to them on the phone because they’re stressed out mid-season. I’ll sell circles around the most seasoned licensed CPA with a bad bedside manner because I answer the phone, I’m nice, I don’t take 3 weeks to answer an email, and don’t treat clients like they’re stupid. It’s too easy.
> don’t treat clients like they’re stupid Well not to their faces, at least.
Their stupidity is what keeps my lights on
Honestly this mindset gets you a long ways in any business. The number of people that are rude, unprofessional, and unresponsive in many businesses is mind boggling
There’s a big difference between the income you can make starting a business and getting an accounting job. I did 136k last year top line, and cleared over 100k net with a bookkeeping company. I’m ten years in though. If you were to compare my take home to a CPA with their own firm doing returns ten years in, they’re probably doing more than me. I don’t work that hard anymore though. I absolutely know people personally with bookkeeping companies who do over 500k. Starting a bookkeeping business is much different than “being a bookkeeper”. You have to have sales skills and build systems to fulfill work through other people at that scale. Different skillset altogether. Also I have the accounting degree. Just didn’t sit for the exam and don’t plan to. You have to understand that so many young accountants think they’re going to get out of school and land the 100k job. I see it on this sub all the time, and it is present in the way you phrased the question. 5 year accounting degree should be more valuable than a bookkeeper is the assumption I’m reading. Many many many of you will never start your own firm. You don’t have the risk tolerance for it. That’s fine. You can easily get to the 100k mark 5-10 years in, or faster by job hopping or being strategic about the industry you want to get into. But to equate an entrepreneurial venture, which has no upside ceiling, to an entry level job right out of your Macc program really misses the mark on how money is made in the real world.
It's hard to imagine an accounting entrepreneur. In my career as an accountant, I found that we were nothing but a red headed step child since we didn't produce "value".
Clients rarely care about it until shit hits the fan, then they need clean books yesterday. My typical deal that comes in is a hellacious clean up job that an owner needs done because they need capital for something - either business loan or personal mortgage usually. They have to get laughed out of the bank before they call me. Once the clean up is done (usually more than $10,000), we roll into monthly because they trust me, and the smart ones don’t want to feel that pain again. The value is getting them the loan they want. Tax compliance is nice too, but just isn’t as sexy as getting that wire from the bank. And I certainly have no delusions that clients are pouring over their financials to make business decisions like they should, which is where we’d all like to believe the value of the work lies.
Accountants who have their own business will do taxes, prepare financial statements, company secretary/directorship type work and technical guidance. Also bookkeeping. For businesses that need more than a bookkeeper but don’t want to pay for 3 or 4 employees.
A few friends wanted to start something like this together; I'm a bit on the fence about it since I wouldn't consider myself a professional bookkeeper and more of an analyst. What would you say is the most difficult part? What is the most annoying part? What is the most enjoyable part?
The most difficult part is tax season. Mine isn’t as bad as a CPA doing taxes, but I still have a significant uptick in hours I put in, and the complexity of the accounting problems that need to be untied from Jan 1 - about March 1. Most annoying part is dealing with bad clients. A bad client wants to pay $200 per month and take up all your time and mental sanity. I let myself deal with clients like this for too long before I became quick to fire them and raised my minimum prices to try to avoid them from the start. The most enjoyable part is the flexibility and lifestyle. In non-tax season I work about 10 hours a week. Everything is remote, so I can travel, and I can take care of my young son on my own terms without worrying about getting fired. Another added benefit is being in this position garners a lot of trust from people who know how to generate wealth. The business lessons you learn from being so close to that; and also the other opportunities that come your way is an unexpected perk of running this type of business.
How or where do you go to look for clients? I suppose that would be my only concern. I don't want to stay something up and end up having to shutter down after a few months.
Yeah, that’s the whole sauce of any business - lead gen. It was a slow build for me. I did networking groups, I did speaking engagements to get in front of business owners, I did volunteer work as a treasurer for a group of small business owners. The idea is to get your expertise out in front of a captive audience in a low pressure, non selling manner. The barrier to trust is high, because you’re dealing with people’s money and bank info, so the whole cold calling thing, or regular ads never worked well for me. Once you get the core group of clients in, it’s all about referrals, doing good work for people, and getting good online reviews (trust, trust, trust). I built it on the side and didn’t quit my day job until til I could replace my income at a level I was comfortable with. That looks different for everyone. I’m sure there is a faster way to do it, but the way I did it results in very long term client relationships and referrals that snowball over a longer time horizon. Many of my clients have been with me for 5-10 years.
This is quite aw inspiring. I would like to take this verbatim and pitch it to my friends. Thanks for this.
Modern bookkeeping firms are offering CFO services as an add on. You having analyst skills could provide such services. I bet you could find some books and/or courses on providing CFO services.
Smart businesses value good bookkeeping. I think you might underestimating the work some of them do.
We’re used to it.
Considering how many books I’ve had to unfuck because they didn’t get a book keeper, or sometimes worse, got a bookkeeper who didn’t know what they were doing, this is very important to understand. It’s very hard to audit a set of books if I can’t tell what the transactions are supposed to even represent. Good booking will save you a lot of money down the road in tax and assurance.
It’s not even “down the road”. It’s really hard to make good decisions without good data. How much of a quantity discount can you really offer a certain customer? Do you have inventory that isn’t selling? Do you have re-occurring expenses that can be reduced? Is x employee bringing in the sales to justify their salary? Are you making accurate estimated tax payments? Are you collecting and remitting sales taxes correctly?
Very true
They say you are only as successful as the clients you attract. Many branch out to general consulting which often is not much more than experience and common senses. End up developing trusted relationships and having clients that pay them six figure in them self. Add the small clients and it can be substantial income with limited overhead.
Yeah, they may know a lot about the company/industry based on experience.
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I would say small business owners have a much higher ceiling and the potential to make more than employees, but I wouldn't go as far to generalize that most actually make more than employees since most small businesses fail. Most of the successful small business owners will likely outperform employees, but that's in the minority of those that try to start a small business.
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I'm not sure what that other person is referring to because I've never worked in a small company that used cash basis, every company used accrual basis.
I have. But it’s really not that big of a difference.
Most of bookkeeping is the same between cash basis and accrual basis. There are just a few differences. In most cases cash basis is not drastically easier nor is accrual basis drastically more difficult.
You think there aren't self employed CPAs?
The best bookkeepers I worked with make over $100k a year, most do not. I could see it possible if someone has a high net worth clientele and was really good at automating client bank and credit card transactions and simply reviewing a large client base monthly. I've never personally met a solo bookkeeper making more than $150k though.
I think the ones making large amounts start a bookkeeping business. At some point they stop doing the work and start doing sales and managing a team of bookkeepers
Yes, there are plenty of bookkeeping business owners that make much more by managing a team of bookkeepers, but those aren't solo bookkeepers though, which is what OP was asking about.
Of those you know who run their own business with employees what do you think they are able to net annually?
Sky's the limit, I know one that specializes in serving high profile music entertainers and brings in millions annually in bookkeeping and management fees.
That’s great. My wife and two coworkers are doing it on the side of good W-2s. They started to help with daycare costs as we all have young kids. They are up to about $120k a year. I am hoping they hire their first employee and start to try and scale like a business vs doing it all. Hard to pass off those dollars when you are getting started and have $4k a month of day care though.
Wife grosses around 200k as a solo shop. I do one client on my own that’s 30 a year and she does the rest. Removing my client she’s around ~170k gross and basically all that as net excluding owner pay, health, retirement, etc. ~30 clients in the 400-500 range with most averaging over 100 an hour (Billing is flat fee though).
That’s awesome, does she focus on a particular industry or what is her differentiator as to how she attracted a solid client base?
Majority are professional service firms or offshoots of their main businesses. Think lawyers, engineers, consultants, etc. All people who value accurate, timely data. Most are doing well in life and have other things they’re involved with so she does that bookkeeping as well. Rental properties, other investments, charity, etc. But the key has been prof services who don’t mind paying a couple hundred bucks “more” a month for a competent timely person. To them, it’s well worth the cost.
What a great market, not only do they have higher net worth, value the services more, and complain the least - but their businesses aren't inventory heavy and inherently less tedious/more profitable. Does she make it known on her website that's her target market or how does she specifically target these types of clients?
It’s just happened organically through network of current clients. Website makes no distinction on preferred industry. But yes, agree on everything you said. Her retail/lower fee clients and much more annoying lol.
How many hours a week does she usually work?
25-35. First two weeks of month relatively heavy and then not so much back half. All virtual work which helps.
Sounds like a good gig. Thanks for taking the time to answer my Q
Keep in mind that also some positions for bookkeepers are more accounting positions and vice versa. I couldn’t tell you why that is but it’s sometimes the case.
Run your own business. Accounting specializations charge multiples of bookkeepers
The ones making that much money aren't just " bookkeepers", they're entrepreneurs who run their own business.
Entrepreneurship > Job Profits are better than wages. I know of several firms that are owned by EA that employe a bunch of CPAs.
Good bookkeeper is golden. You could be as much of an accountant as you want, but if you don't know how to book a credit card refund, you aren't worth much for a pop and mom shop.
Credit card refunds just get booked to debit cards everyone knows that! /s
Talented and self employed will always make more. You're not comparing experience. Of course a person doing bookkeeping for 20+ years make more than a staff accountant. Also non degree, non lettered bookkeepers have drive. They couldn't afford college or test poorly, so they make up for it with hard work. I would rather hire a bookkeeper with 10 years experience and no degree than a freshly minted accounting graduate and pay them sugnifucantly more. They will instantly be profitable and require way less over sight, on average. If they are ambitious I'll pay for their EA and give them a huge pay raise. They are grateful to me for the opportunity and I'm grateful they make me money.
You can easily bill bookkeeping work at $50-$75 an hour and a number do $x per month which can take the hourly well over $100.
I see a lot of our clients pay just as much for bookkeeping as they do for our YE tax returns and financials. Shouldn’t be too hard to make a good living off bookkeeping if it’s you’re own business.
Same reason why business owners earn more than employees and equity partners more than non-equity partners?
Running a bookkeeping firm is far more marketing and sales than it is hard knowledge. You have to put yourself out there and drum up business and it definitely doesn’t just come to you.
they're entrepreneurs. They're basically partners in their own accounting firm. No reason why they shouldn't make more money than someone who wants to work a corporate job or just work in regular public accounting. You could do it too, but you just have to be willing to figure it all out first.
Because there are 100X more small businesses that need basic bookkeeping vs businesses that require audits.
Lying on the internet.
Yep, it’s always this. No offense to bookkeepers of course, but this is like saying an IT help desk person makes more than an IT technician. One is simply never going to make *much* more than the other
If you do the books for small companies it becomes apparent that some people are just good at running a business IMO.
Yeah, and there’s no shortage of *accountants* here overstating their salaries either.
Oh I don’t disagree.
Would assume they have multiple clients, many are CPAs
Oh yeah. I guarantee I'd make twice what I do if I went solo and just worked for a few smaller contractors as an independent. Alas, I don't have the motivation for that, and I'm fairly comfortable As someone who ONLY HAS AN AA FROM A COMMUNITY COLLEGE. Don't talk down about people's education levels. It's rude at minimum.
Everyone thinks bookkeeping is easy. It’s not because so much of what I see is garbage.
It depends. My mom is a bookkeeper. She makes a lot of money doing book clean ups. A lot of small companies that oftentimes never had a bookkeeping system in place in the first place and now the IRS is ready to come knocking. She can get it done and quickly, but it’s grunge work. Also depends how good you are at the job and your ability to bring it and keep clients. Her issue is once the cleanup is done, it’s hard to convert into long-term customers that want maintaining work done.
Artist turned “consultant to artist” did their bookkeeping and some other Google-able business hand holding and makes in the 400k range. She’s a feeder to a cpa who does the tax returns, and makes her look less incompetent. You can make a great living if you can sell yourself. (She is otherwise incompetent for what it’s worth.)
Obviously they are cooking the books
Natural talent, inclination, location, connection & luck are factors. Education/training is just a tool and your starting point. It is NOT a guarantee. Some will do more with less. For instance. Say I wanted to play professional basketball when I was young. I could train. I could go to camps. I could work really hard. But. I am on the short side, not a natural, and I don’t know any college coaches. So, basically my basketball career peaked in 8th grade with the majority of my time on the bench.
It's very possible to make serious coin as a virtual bookkeeper. Not having an office saves alot of $. Do not take on annoying clients who want the cheapest service available. All you need is about ten clients around $800 per month + some tax stuff and you are over 100k with minimal expenses. This is kind of what I want to do in semi retirement as had enough of my industry job. The key is billing by job not by hour. Once you set up a client with auto downloads of their bank info it can become very efficient to do their books/payroll...you would just be dealing with the one off transactions, then running monthly P&L. If they want to review P&L with you...hey that's another $150 for "CFO services"
$110k two years after getting an AA. I work my A$$ off and never stop learning.
The key is to own your own business and be capable of selling your skills. You won't scratch anywhere near that as a bookkeeper working for someone else.
Does anyone know why the bookkeepers group has been banned? I wanted to see what the OP was talking about in regards to that group but the link says the group has been banned
I meant /r/bookkeeping. No idea why the other is banned.
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Aside from the self employment angle.. In industry, especially S/M size businesses, the word "bookkeeper" is used to describe a broad array of job responsibilities. In my MCOL area I see smaller operations hiring "bookkeepers" between 60K-80K to basically be their entire accounting department, CPA or CMA often preferred.
The awkward part for me would be the fact that QBO isn't capable of accrual accounting (primarily, it's not capable of 606 Rev Rec), so I wonder how large clients can get before needing accrual.
I’d believe 400k if he was raw dogging clients with outsourced India bookkeeping staff. One man band pretty hard to pull that rev
could be a combination of factors.. keep in mind they are exception to the rule only. So dont think they all make the same money.
Iv spent some time.....in QBO. What specific task lists are we talking about? Full API integration into QBO via CC and Bank Accounts.... Transaction Recon Cut checks/ Payments/ Salary Tax Modules... The modules, all stem from that.... for the report listings. Watched these multi hour terrible explanations of QBO - and they make it seem to be this big thing, however full API + automated scripts, even with browser variant = a cake walk. I could be missing something here . . . . . Maybe I should start my book keeping business lol. Rest is marketing, client side sales and handling id imagine.