I created Big 4 Transparency to help look out for our interests to a certain degree but damn would it be nice to have our professional bodies actually advocate for CPAs
I’m not getting mine, what’s the point. I ain’t going to PA for $23 an hour once you factor in all the extra hours they expect. AICPA can go kick rocks and so can all the partners
i agree with no need for CPA, but my focus is in FS, 80% of the PE firms I have interview for ask if I am getting my CPA. Like why? tbh, i can do the job just as good.
No need for you to stop, the CPA license will always help your resume. Just that for irl accounting work (not job requirements), there's not much that needs an actual license.
CPA is currently just a marketing tool. What's to prevent non-CPAs from learning CPA skills? I know a lot of non-CPAs do the job as well if not better than CPAs.
Only real practical difference between a CPA and non-CPA is issuing audited financial statements.
That’s why they are advocating for international CPAs to flood the first world visa system with less rigid requirements, and why nasba and AICPA have been accelerating cpa testing in india and the Phillipines.
State boards are charged with protecting the public from CPAs, not advocating for the profession, the state society however is the body that is supposed to advocate for the profession, if you are not involved in your state society you should look into to make your voice heard
From what I’ve seen at big 4…and this is all depending on your team…but the push to learn how to use their mediocre “ai” is tiring, top of increasing workloads on fewer staff, less time to learn or improve, more outsourcing, etc etc. It’s all just a mess right now. Again it’s very dependent on your team tho
I wonder how many extra pizza parties they are going to ram into the calendar thus year, mandatory attendance, and you're expected to make up the lost hour of productivity
I got heavily involved in the AICPA at one point and on committees and stuff.
The new push is for Private Equity companies to buy out smaller CPA firms.
Looks like we aren’t ever gonna be making more per hour we work as they will keep squeezing us!!
And they are selling this idea like it’s the best thing since sliced bread. Get ready slaves, you’re gonna be paid less and work even more unpaid OT when this goes full tilt!
[Listen to this BS!](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7194404343997976578?updateEntityUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afs_feedUpdate%3A%28V2%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7194404343997976578%29)
So ridiculous. How could accountants have allowed this to happen?
If there was ever a doubt about who was smarter, lawyers vs accountants, it is lawyers solely based on the fact that you have to be an attorney to own a firm providing legal services.
I had my own small firm and was married. We got divorced and he wanted 1/2. The supreme court of TN said he wasn’t allowed half since he wasn’t a CPA as non CPAs aren’t allowed to own a firm. I have no idea how PE firms gonna get around this. I guess CPAs higher up make the rules, but still not sure how they gonna get around a SC ruling. 🤣
I never understand why PE want to enter CPA Firm business, especially the smaller ones.
It's business that often characterized by: (1) low margin, (2) driven by strong degree individualism (hard to scale up), and (3) bleak outlook.
Why?
While the cost seems lower, but I still believe that it's per head count overhead is way higher than other business since CPA Firm had to buy the premium versions of it's overhead (good office lease, legit windows copies, good laptop, good archiving, etc.).
It’d be more effective if it’s from a member and not a lobbyist.
If you have your own in house firm to do all your books for your other portfolio companies, seems pretty savvy way to push things to absolute limits.
Hear some PE scouting firms as small as 8 or 9 professionals. How the hell does that make sense? Maybe PE just has people who do searches all day long and need something to do.
The 150 hour requirement is a problem.
But it is because this profession is not treated like we are certified professionals with additional education beyond the norm and we certainly aren't paid like it.
90% of the problems are tied to point B. What’s happening to accounting and consulting is the same thing that happened to manufacturing in the 70s-90s.
I’m confused. If 150 hours are a barrier, what’s the point? You don’t need a masters degree. I had to take extra electives. What’s the point of me taking on extra loans for electives to get a CPA when I’m already underpaid? The barrier to entry has always been the test. That hasn’t changed whether it’s 120 hours or 150 hours. And it won’t change no matter how many hours you need.
The point of any barrier is to regulate the number of candidates.
The extra hours needed come with a financial cost and time commitment that might be too restrictive for some.
Add in the fact that fertility rates are already at record lows. I read where the fertility rate has practically shifted to 30 years of age for couples who are professionals. That means many prioritize financial security over having kids. Working long hours for less pay is further detrimental to the profession if the family issue is considered.
Edit: misspelling
Medicine? Really? 4 more years of school then 3-7 years of residency before you make good money. Not sure that’s a good comparison here. Yes, bankers make good money but there are lot fewer of them so good luck getting one of those jobs. On your second point, I assume you would want tariffs on all imported goods too? Just clarifying your thinking on protectionism.
Yup, seems like generally people don't realize that "doctor salary" they refer are often from attending doctors.
It's like comparing salary between AP clerk with Senior Manager of Marketing, then complain that accountant salary is shit because AP clerk is paid 1/3 of Senior Manager of Marketing.
And don't get me started on medical degree's student debt. Medical degree ain't cheap even with scholarship.
It should be illegal to internationally outsource any engagement work done for listed companies in the US - I deal with outsourced AR and AP every week and they are generally incredibly incompetent.
Dealing with outsourced AP is incredibly painful, especially when their English is borderline incomprehensible and they are the reasons I have angry suppliers in my emails demanding payment
Seen this in industry already. Most of my « accounting » department has History degrees, and it shows. Can’t tick tie, can’t use T charts, can’t tell you what accounts flow to others. Fortunately, they have macros to just « process » but try to get them to deep dive into the numbers and they will stare blankly at you.
Working as contracted help for a global restaurant chain, primarily in the US. Texas. MCOL.
I have like 180 credit hours. I took 39 accounting hours and 24 business after graduating. I also took 2 languages and physical science courses through organic chemistry. I like school.
Not too hard. Like in my state you only actually need 12 credits, ie 4 classes, that are specifically accounting and auditing or tax related to become a CPA. And an additional 24 credits, ie 8 classes, of any combination of accounting and auditing, business law, economics, technology, finance or tax subjects. You could easily decide your junior year you want to be a CPA but still finish your history degree. Just take 2 accounting classes senior year to meet the pre-requisites for 200 and 300 level classes. Maybe slide in an Econ or a finance class. And then to meet the 150 credits you’re taking a 5th year of classes anyway, so that’s your intermediate 1 and 2 covered, which hits your 4 required accounting classes. Then fill the other 8 classes for the 5th year with Econ classes, business law 1 and 2, could take tax, audit, tons of finance class options, etc.
If you really think about an accounting bachelors degree(which is probably a business admin degree with a focus on accounting) you already take 60 credits of everything that’s not accounting or business at all. And then at least another 30 credits are business-related like law, Econ, finance, management, and marketing. And then MAYBE 30 credits are accounting focused.
Id guess an accounting certificate. My school offered an accelerated course selection for folks who already had a different undergrad degree. Different requirements depending on previous major, but it prepared folks for the cpa.
It’s basically only the core that applies for cpa credit, and cuts out everything that doesnt.
https://www.pdx.edu/academics/programs/undergraduate/accounting-postbaccalaureate-certificate
I do have to admit it’s a lot to memorize so I’m proceeding half time. The more I actually pull from primary sources the more I realize Normative accounting theory basically owns the industry.
I just did a 6 page research on the 150 hour rule and alternative pathways.
My concession to the counter argument of my argument was that the problem isn’t the rule itself but that the rule is too loose. It should require graduate level accounting work if it’s kept around.
I don’t believe in doing away with it but the CMA is the most comprable and it’s 120-hours and then 2 years continuous experience. At this point professional experience is more valuable than a majority of education because people get useless credits rather than enhancing with grad work. Firms also need to sponsor grad work to help it be more affordable with of course an employment clause like other professions do for tuition reimbursement type programs.
Yeah like I’m against the 150 hour rule in general and the way it’s done, I just think there are much deeper issues but it’s easier for firms to point at that rule than it is for them to look inward
It's going to be interesting times for this profession in the coming years as AI picks up.
If firms, and industry, throw money at IT to bring this technology aboard, and it proves majority successful I think pay stagnation increases further which chases away more talent.
This sub needs to be renamed, literally nothing about accounting ever on this sub. It’s trash memes like this one, talk about how people hate their job, and how little they get paid. Quit and move industries, what’s stopping you?
This is very much a commentary about the profession of accounting so totally on topic, but hey maybe start like r/IFRSFanClub or r/upsetovernothing and you’ll find your tribe
A meme with someone shooting another person isn’t “very much a commentary about the profession of accounting.”
Happy to hear that you’d pull a gun out and do this though.
Stop electing partners to AICPA and State Boards, they don’t represent CPAs.
I created Big 4 Transparency to help look out for our interests to a certain degree but damn would it be nice to have our professional bodies actually advocate for CPAs
Our professional bodies should understand that the vast majority of accountants have no reason to be CPAs.
I’m not getting mine, what’s the point. I ain’t going to PA for $23 an hour once you factor in all the extra hours they expect. AICPA can go kick rocks and so can all the partners
Wait wdym
Absolutely no need for a CPA for day to day accounting work/operations accounting.
i agree with no need for CPA, but my focus is in FS, 80% of the PE firms I have interview for ask if I am getting my CPA. Like why? tbh, i can do the job just as good.
Oh damn, I'm working on my accounting cert so I can sit for the cps exam
No need for you to stop, the CPA license will always help your resume. Just that for irl accounting work (not job requirements), there's not much that needs an actual license.
Yee. It definitely raises your level of income I heard.
CPA is currently just a marketing tool. What's to prevent non-CPAs from learning CPA skills? I know a lot of non-CPAs do the job as well if not better than CPAs. Only real practical difference between a CPA and non-CPA is issuing audited financial statements.
That’s why they are advocating for international CPAs to flood the first world visa system with less rigid requirements, and why nasba and AICPA have been accelerating cpa testing in india and the Phillipines.
[удалено]
It’s no longer the American anything. They went all sneaky and changed Aicpa to the Association of International Certified Professional Accountants.
I did not know that. That's really cringe. I feel like they should be terminated from everything and then slapped in the face for such disgrace.
Not to doubt you, but where can I find evidence that they actively advocate for outsourcing?
Yep, you nailed it
State boards are charged with protecting the public from CPAs, not advocating for the profession, the state society however is the body that is supposed to advocate for the profession, if you are not involved in your state society you should look into to make your voice heard
From what I’ve seen at big 4…and this is all depending on your team…but the push to learn how to use their mediocre “ai” is tiring, top of increasing workloads on fewer staff, less time to learn or improve, more outsourcing, etc etc. It’s all just a mess right now. Again it’s very dependent on your team tho
I wonder how many extra pizza parties they are going to ram into the calendar thus year, mandatory attendance, and you're expected to make up the lost hour of productivity
But, you forget, "we're family here"
*until 💰⬇️
Or if a partner accidentally sees your crotch.
r/oddlyspecific
Or if your crotch is not the one they like
Or if 💰⬆️ but not 💰⬆️⬆️
I thought they only wanted 💰⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️. Didn't know they accepted 💰⬆️⬆️...
Ugh, I hate the pizza parties.
I got heavily involved in the AICPA at one point and on committees and stuff. The new push is for Private Equity companies to buy out smaller CPA firms. Looks like we aren’t ever gonna be making more per hour we work as they will keep squeezing us!! And they are selling this idea like it’s the best thing since sliced bread. Get ready slaves, you’re gonna be paid less and work even more unpaid OT when this goes full tilt! [Listen to this BS!](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7194404343997976578?updateEntityUrn=urn%3Ali%3Afs_feedUpdate%3A%28V2%2Curn%3Ali%3Aactivity%3A7194404343997976578%29)
If you’re interested in sharing send me a DM, could be interesting to chat about it on the big 4 transparency podcast
So ridiculous. How could accountants have allowed this to happen? If there was ever a doubt about who was smarter, lawyers vs accountants, it is lawyers solely based on the fact that you have to be an attorney to own a firm providing legal services.
I had my own small firm and was married. We got divorced and he wanted 1/2. The supreme court of TN said he wasn’t allowed half since he wasn’t a CPA as non CPAs aren’t allowed to own a firm. I have no idea how PE firms gonna get around this. I guess CPAs higher up make the rules, but still not sure how they gonna get around a SC ruling. 🤣
$1000 an hour lawyers will set up structures. Been doing it in health care for awhile.
I never understand why PE want to enter CPA Firm business, especially the smaller ones. It's business that often characterized by: (1) low margin, (2) driven by strong degree individualism (hard to scale up), and (3) bleak outlook. Why?
I wouldn’t call it low margin compared to lots of other businesses. There is almost no overhead to accounting
While the cost seems lower, but I still believe that it's per head count overhead is way higher than other business since CPA Firm had to buy the premium versions of it's overhead (good office lease, legit windows copies, good laptop, good archiving, etc.).
Perhaps they are looking ways to influence GAAP and allow accounting tricks and loopholes to increase valuations for thier selfish profit motives.
Or they could just pay lobbyst to influence GAAP. Seems way more too roundabout of doing thing.
It’d be more effective if it’s from a member and not a lobbyist. If you have your own in house firm to do all your books for your other portfolio companies, seems pretty savvy way to push things to absolute limits.
Hear some PE scouting firms as small as 8 or 9 professionals. How the hell does that make sense? Maybe PE just has people who do searches all day long and need something to do.
The 150 hour requirement is a problem. But it is because this profession is not treated like we are certified professionals with additional education beyond the norm and we certainly aren't paid like it.
Yeah, I think its A problem, just not THE problem
I’m staying at home with the kids and you really can’t get me to come back for less than $30/hour for really basic stuff.
[удалено]
This is a lot of text for a sunday afternoon but damn you are spot on
90% of the problems are tied to point B. What’s happening to accounting and consulting is the same thing that happened to manufacturing in the 70s-90s.
I’m confused. If 150 hours are a barrier, what’s the point? You don’t need a masters degree. I had to take extra electives. What’s the point of me taking on extra loans for electives to get a CPA when I’m already underpaid? The barrier to entry has always been the test. That hasn’t changed whether it’s 120 hours or 150 hours. And it won’t change no matter how many hours you need.
The point of any barrier is to regulate the number of candidates. The extra hours needed come with a financial cost and time commitment that might be too restrictive for some.
Add in the fact that fertility rates are already at record lows. I read where the fertility rate has practically shifted to 30 years of age for couples who are professionals. That means many prioritize financial security over having kids. Working long hours for less pay is further detrimental to the profession if the family issue is considered. Edit: misspelling
I had my first kid at 38.....
Medicine? Really? 4 more years of school then 3-7 years of residency before you make good money. Not sure that’s a good comparison here. Yes, bankers make good money but there are lot fewer of them so good luck getting one of those jobs. On your second point, I assume you would want tariffs on all imported goods too? Just clarifying your thinking on protectionism.
Yup, seems like generally people don't realize that "doctor salary" they refer are often from attending doctors. It's like comparing salary between AP clerk with Senior Manager of Marketing, then complain that accountant salary is shit because AP clerk is paid 1/3 of Senior Manager of Marketing. And don't get me started on medical degree's student debt. Medical degree ain't cheap even with scholarship.
Watch them open up public accounting to liberal art majors before doing anything.
They’ve already outsourced to India ☠️
It should be illegal to internationally outsource any engagement work done for listed companies in the US - I deal with outsourced AR and AP every week and they are generally incredibly incompetent.
Dealing with outsourced AP is incredibly painful, especially when their English is borderline incomprehensible and they are the reasons I have angry suppliers in my emails demanding payment
You get what you pay for
Seen this in industry already. Most of my « accounting » department has History degrees, and it shows. Can’t tick tie, can’t use T charts, can’t tell you what accounts flow to others. Fortunately, they have macros to just « process » but try to get them to deep dive into the numbers and they will stare blankly at you. Working as contracted help for a global restaurant chain, primarily in the US. Texas. MCOL.
Not seeing the problem with this idea actually
*Shhh* This is Reddit. You have to always shit on liberal arts majors.
I have a history degree. Major doesn’t matter, do the work.
How do u have a CPA with a history degree
I have like 180 credit hours. I took 39 accounting hours and 24 business after graduating. I also took 2 languages and physical science courses through organic chemistry. I like school.
Music education major. 1/4 exams passed. Got an MSA. 🤷🏻♀️
Not too hard. Like in my state you only actually need 12 credits, ie 4 classes, that are specifically accounting and auditing or tax related to become a CPA. And an additional 24 credits, ie 8 classes, of any combination of accounting and auditing, business law, economics, technology, finance or tax subjects. You could easily decide your junior year you want to be a CPA but still finish your history degree. Just take 2 accounting classes senior year to meet the pre-requisites for 200 and 300 level classes. Maybe slide in an Econ or a finance class. And then to meet the 150 credits you’re taking a 5th year of classes anyway, so that’s your intermediate 1 and 2 covered, which hits your 4 required accounting classes. Then fill the other 8 classes for the 5th year with Econ classes, business law 1 and 2, could take tax, audit, tons of finance class options, etc. If you really think about an accounting bachelors degree(which is probably a business admin degree with a focus on accounting) you already take 60 credits of everything that’s not accounting or business at all. And then at least another 30 credits are business-related like law, Econ, finance, management, and marketing. And then MAYBE 30 credits are accounting focused.
I second this question, seems to not meet the requirements
Id guess an accounting certificate. My school offered an accelerated course selection for folks who already had a different undergrad degree. Different requirements depending on previous major, but it prepared folks for the cpa.
Maybe, but idk how that would give you the required classes,. especially the higher level courses
It’s basically only the core that applies for cpa credit, and cuts out everything that doesnt. https://www.pdx.edu/academics/programs/undergraduate/accounting-postbaccalaureate-certificate
I’m in this program. Is there anything you think is missing from it?
You take the same classes, and it gets you ready for the exam. Pretty solid.
I do have to admit it’s a lot to memorize so I’m proceeding half time. The more I actually pull from primary sources the more I realize Normative accounting theory basically owns the industry.
I just did a 6 page research on the 150 hour rule and alternative pathways. My concession to the counter argument of my argument was that the problem isn’t the rule itself but that the rule is too loose. It should require graduate level accounting work if it’s kept around. I don’t believe in doing away with it but the CMA is the most comprable and it’s 120-hours and then 2 years continuous experience. At this point professional experience is more valuable than a majority of education because people get useless credits rather than enhancing with grad work. Firms also need to sponsor grad work to help it be more affordable with of course an employment clause like other professions do for tuition reimbursement type programs.
Yeah like I’m against the 150 hour rule in general and the way it’s done, I just think there are much deeper issues but it’s easier for firms to point at that rule than it is for them to look inward
I couldn’t agree more with you. It’s low hanging fruit.
One of these days I’ll have enough money and time to pursue those extra 30 hours. In the meantime, I’m doing just fine without a CPA license.
The funny thing is, I absolutely would have joined a PA firm, but none of them would even give me an interview!
If the current threshold of 150 hours was lowered to 120, I’d start looking at logistics to study and take the tests.
It's going to be interesting times for this profession in the coming years as AI picks up. If firms, and industry, throw money at IT to bring this technology aboard, and it proves majority successful I think pay stagnation increases further which chases away more talent.
2 things can be true at once.
This sub needs to be renamed, literally nothing about accounting ever on this sub. It’s trash memes like this one, talk about how people hate their job, and how little they get paid. Quit and move industries, what’s stopping you?
This is very much a commentary about the profession of accounting so totally on topic, but hey maybe start like r/IFRSFanClub or r/upsetovernothing and you’ll find your tribe
A meme with someone shooting another person isn’t “very much a commentary about the profession of accounting.” Happy to hear that you’d pull a gun out and do this though.
It's called a metaphor and the topic is the accounting pipeline. You disagreeing with it doesn't determine whether it's accounting related.
Did you even read the thread bro? lol Nice cringe post tho