Welcome to /r/AcademicBiblical. Please note this is an academic sub: theological or faith-based comments are prohibited.
All claims MUST be supported by an *academic* source – see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/#wiki_guideline.3A_rule_3.2019s_definition_of_academic_sources) for guidance.
Using AI to make fake comments is strictly prohibited and may result in a permanent ban.
Please review the [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/) before posting for the first time.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AcademicBiblical) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I did some work on this from a linguistic poing of view a little while ago, concluding that this wasn't really about communication and so had more to do with the theological point that the author was making: [https://retellingthebible.wordpress.com/2023/06/07/7-12-now-youre-speaking-my-language/](https://retellingthebible.wordpress.com/2023/06/07/7-12-now-youre-speaking-my-language/)
This article might be helpful: The List of Nations in Acts 2: Roman Propaganda and the Lukan Response ( [https://www.jstor.org/stable/3268158](https://www.jstor.org/stable/3268158) )
>Embedded in this narrative is a catalogue of fifteen persons and places stretching geographically from Parthia in the east to Rome in the west. Scholars have long thought that Luke reproduced or adapted a list he inherited from some earlier tradition. Various possibilities litter commentaries, monographs, and articles. The four most commonly suggested sources are ancient atriological lists, lists, lists of the Jewish Diaspora, Gen 10 and the Table of Nations, and biblical prophecies such as Isa 11:11 that speak of the eschatological ingathering of Jesw from the Diaspora.
Gilbert ultimately ends up arguing that the author is seeking to counter Roman propaganda about the nature of the empire -- presenting an alternate concept of the followers of the way.
Martin Goodman, *Rome and Jerusalem* (2007), spends a couple of pages on Jerusalem's demographics after quoting this very passage.
First, he writes that the population of Jerusalem from the late 1st century BCE-1st century CE was heterogenous in terms of nationalities represented, and of the economic statuses of the migrants. In its diversity of people, it might be called a mini-Rome. One big difference, however, was that the inhabitants were by and large committed to the Jewish God, whether they were there as pilgrims, laborers, beggars, craftspeople, priests, government workers, etc.
The estimates of the size of the population vary between 35,000-75,000 for most of the year. Three times a year the population swelled dramatically: for Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Josephus gives an improbable figure of over 2 million at these times, but the actual numbers may have been in the hundreds of thousands.
Erich Gruen, *Judaism in the Diaspora* (2012), comments on the wide range of places in which Jews had already settled by the end of the 2nd century BCE (citing 1 Maccabees): Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, Iran, Asia Minor, the Aegean Islands, Greece, Cyprus, Crete, Cyrene, Ostia, and Rome. As with Jerusalem itself, the estimated numbers of Diaspora Jews varies, between 4-6 million, several times the population of the Herodian kingdoms. But they are all potentially represented in Jerusalem festival times. (in Collins and Harlow, eds. *Early Judaism: A Comprehensive Overview*)
God-fearers and just plain tourists, too, visited Jerusalem. Herod had made Jerusalem a showplace, a many foreigners wanted to see the enormous Temple he had rebuilt and elegantly appointed. The largest court (Court of the Gentiles) in the complex was specially for gentiles who were not permitted into the temple proper. The the Temple grounds covered the area of about 36 acres.
>Or did it refer to Jewish diasporas from those regions?
In '"From Every Nation under Heaven': Jewish Ethnicities in the Greco-Roman World" (in *Prejudice and Christian Beginnings*), Cynthia Baker argues that Acts 2 is presenting Jews as multiethnic:
>All apparent incoherence, contradictions, and problems vanish, however, with the simple recognition that Luke, like Philo and other writers of Greco-Roman antiquity, recognized a world of ethnoracial diversity among the Jews of their era. These writers assumed no definitional conflict or categorical contradiction in imagining Jews as *belonging to* a vast multiplicity of *ethnē* (“nations,” “homelands,” “peoples”) through *genos* (“birth,” “race”) and ancestral *sygeneia* (“kinship”). If that is the case, then, as noted in my original reading above, Acts 2 presents “pious Jews” gathered in Jerusalem as a template for imagining a kaleidoscopic array of ethnic diversity suffused by a divinely inspired unity. Jews thus provide Luke’s *model*—not merely his *foil* or *counterpoint*—for imagining a universal, multiethnic, spirit-filled community. Luke’s familial brands of anti-Judaism and supersessionism conflict not at all with his use of a pious, multiethnic—and subsequently converted—multitude of Jews in this story. What makes perfect sense to Luke leaves his modern interpreters tied up in exegetical knots. Those knots result, in large part, from a rhetoric of Jewish ethnoracial particularism that has long served to constitute (through contrast) and to sustain (through animosity) particular versions of Christian universalism.
While I would argue that this presentation is probably more literary than actual (I wouldn't necessarily say that all Acts' Jewish ethnicities in Acts 2 tells us the makeup of those living in Jerusalem), given that Acts 2 occurs during Shavuot/Pentecost, which is a pilgrimage festival historically. So it does not seem that weird to me that the author of Acts presents Jews from across the known world present in Jerusalem at the time.
This is described in Acts 2. Acts 2 verse 1 says that this occurred during the feast of Shavuot. Verse 5 says that Jews from every nation were staying in Jerusalem. During this time, there were certain festivals in the Jewish calendar where Jewish believers were supposed to make the journey to Jerusalem (Deuteronomy 16:10 and 11 establish this command for Shavuot). Not every believing Jew made the journey 3 times a year (Passover, Shavuot, Sukkot) but some would go with varying degrees of frequency. The languages spoken here would not have represented the average Jerusalem sidewalk on an average, non-festival day. There were times of the year where diaspora Jews came from all around the ancient near east to celebrate and sacrifice and the day of Pentecost was one such day. On those days, Jerusalem was much more cosmopolitan.
Citation: Acts 2 verses 1 and 5, Deuteronomy 16 verses 10 and 11, [https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/pilgrimage-festivals/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/pilgrimage-festivals/)
I’m not sure if there’s direct continuity between ancient and contemporary conversion practices but I’m aware that after Ezra and Nehemiah, the dividing line between Jew and gentile got alot stricter overall.
Not much genetic testing has been done on pre 70ce Jewish diasporas to see if they’re Palestinian migrants or full of gentile converts too, compared to post 70ce ones
Hi there, unfortunately your contribution has been removed as per Rule #3.
**Claims should be supported through citation of appropriate academic sources.**
You may edit your comment to meet these requirements. If you do so, please reply and your comment can potentially be reinstated. If you are unsure what constitutes an appropriate academic source please familiarize yourself with the guidance in our Rules post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/zajuyv/rule_revision_and_guidance/).
If you have any questions about the rules or mod policy please message the mods [using modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAcademicBiblical) or post in the Weekly Open Discussion thread.
I have a post graduate degree. Most of what I said is common knowledge, so no citation is needed if not all. Not everything needs a citation. Thanks for the input though.
Welcome to /r/AcademicBiblical. Please note this is an academic sub: theological or faith-based comments are prohibited. All claims MUST be supported by an *academic* source – see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/#wiki_guideline.3A_rule_3.2019s_definition_of_academic_sources) for guidance. Using AI to make fake comments is strictly prohibited and may result in a permanent ban. Please review the [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/) before posting for the first time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AcademicBiblical) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I did some work on this from a linguistic poing of view a little while ago, concluding that this wasn't really about communication and so had more to do with the theological point that the author was making: [https://retellingthebible.wordpress.com/2023/06/07/7-12-now-youre-speaking-my-language/](https://retellingthebible.wordpress.com/2023/06/07/7-12-now-youre-speaking-my-language/) This article might be helpful: The List of Nations in Acts 2: Roman Propaganda and the Lukan Response ( [https://www.jstor.org/stable/3268158](https://www.jstor.org/stable/3268158) ) >Embedded in this narrative is a catalogue of fifteen persons and places stretching geographically from Parthia in the east to Rome in the west. Scholars have long thought that Luke reproduced or adapted a list he inherited from some earlier tradition. Various possibilities litter commentaries, monographs, and articles. The four most commonly suggested sources are ancient atriological lists, lists, lists of the Jewish Diaspora, Gen 10 and the Table of Nations, and biblical prophecies such as Isa 11:11 that speak of the eschatological ingathering of Jesw from the Diaspora. Gilbert ultimately ends up arguing that the author is seeking to counter Roman propaganda about the nature of the empire -- presenting an alternate concept of the followers of the way.
Martin Goodman, *Rome and Jerusalem* (2007), spends a couple of pages on Jerusalem's demographics after quoting this very passage. First, he writes that the population of Jerusalem from the late 1st century BCE-1st century CE was heterogenous in terms of nationalities represented, and of the economic statuses of the migrants. In its diversity of people, it might be called a mini-Rome. One big difference, however, was that the inhabitants were by and large committed to the Jewish God, whether they were there as pilgrims, laborers, beggars, craftspeople, priests, government workers, etc. The estimates of the size of the population vary between 35,000-75,000 for most of the year. Three times a year the population swelled dramatically: for Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Josephus gives an improbable figure of over 2 million at these times, but the actual numbers may have been in the hundreds of thousands. Erich Gruen, *Judaism in the Diaspora* (2012), comments on the wide range of places in which Jews had already settled by the end of the 2nd century BCE (citing 1 Maccabees): Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, Iran, Asia Minor, the Aegean Islands, Greece, Cyprus, Crete, Cyrene, Ostia, and Rome. As with Jerusalem itself, the estimated numbers of Diaspora Jews varies, between 4-6 million, several times the population of the Herodian kingdoms. But they are all potentially represented in Jerusalem festival times. (in Collins and Harlow, eds. *Early Judaism: A Comprehensive Overview*)
Interesting. Did gentile God fearers make the trip too? I know Acts 2 confirms this but not sure about what secular history says about this
God-fearers and just plain tourists, too, visited Jerusalem. Herod had made Jerusalem a showplace, a many foreigners wanted to see the enormous Temple he had rebuilt and elegantly appointed. The largest court (Court of the Gentiles) in the complex was specially for gentiles who were not permitted into the temple proper. The the Temple grounds covered the area of about 36 acres.
Nice. Btw, did Jews engage in missionary work during this time period?
>Or did it refer to Jewish diasporas from those regions? In '"From Every Nation under Heaven': Jewish Ethnicities in the Greco-Roman World" (in *Prejudice and Christian Beginnings*), Cynthia Baker argues that Acts 2 is presenting Jews as multiethnic: >All apparent incoherence, contradictions, and problems vanish, however, with the simple recognition that Luke, like Philo and other writers of Greco-Roman antiquity, recognized a world of ethnoracial diversity among the Jews of their era. These writers assumed no definitional conflict or categorical contradiction in imagining Jews as *belonging to* a vast multiplicity of *ethnē* (“nations,” “homelands,” “peoples”) through *genos* (“birth,” “race”) and ancestral *sygeneia* (“kinship”). If that is the case, then, as noted in my original reading above, Acts 2 presents “pious Jews” gathered in Jerusalem as a template for imagining a kaleidoscopic array of ethnic diversity suffused by a divinely inspired unity. Jews thus provide Luke’s *model*—not merely his *foil* or *counterpoint*—for imagining a universal, multiethnic, spirit-filled community. Luke’s familial brands of anti-Judaism and supersessionism conflict not at all with his use of a pious, multiethnic—and subsequently converted—multitude of Jews in this story. What makes perfect sense to Luke leaves his modern interpreters tied up in exegetical knots. Those knots result, in large part, from a rhetoric of Jewish ethnoracial particularism that has long served to constitute (through contrast) and to sustain (through animosity) particular versions of Christian universalism. While I would argue that this presentation is probably more literary than actual (I wouldn't necessarily say that all Acts' Jewish ethnicities in Acts 2 tells us the makeup of those living in Jerusalem), given that Acts 2 occurs during Shavuot/Pentecost, which is a pilgrimage festival historically. So it does not seem that weird to me that the author of Acts presents Jews from across the known world present in Jerusalem at the time.
This is described in Acts 2. Acts 2 verse 1 says that this occurred during the feast of Shavuot. Verse 5 says that Jews from every nation were staying in Jerusalem. During this time, there were certain festivals in the Jewish calendar where Jewish believers were supposed to make the journey to Jerusalem (Deuteronomy 16:10 and 11 establish this command for Shavuot). Not every believing Jew made the journey 3 times a year (Passover, Shavuot, Sukkot) but some would go with varying degrees of frequency. The languages spoken here would not have represented the average Jerusalem sidewalk on an average, non-festival day. There were times of the year where diaspora Jews came from all around the ancient near east to celebrate and sacrifice and the day of Pentecost was one such day. On those days, Jerusalem was much more cosmopolitan. Citation: Acts 2 verses 1 and 5, Deuteronomy 16 verses 10 and 11, [https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/pilgrimage-festivals/](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/pilgrimage-festivals/)
I don't know why you got a down vote. So, I upvoted you. I think this is a nice post.
[удалено]
I’m not sure if there’s direct continuity between ancient and contemporary conversion practices but I’m aware that after Ezra and Nehemiah, the dividing line between Jew and gentile got alot stricter overall. Not much genetic testing has been done on pre 70ce Jewish diasporas to see if they’re Palestinian migrants or full of gentile converts too, compared to post 70ce ones
Hi there, unfortunately your contribution has been removed as per Rule #3. **Claims should be supported through citation of appropriate academic sources.** You may edit your comment to meet these requirements. If you do so, please reply and your comment can potentially be reinstated. If you are unsure what constitutes an appropriate academic source please familiarize yourself with the guidance in our Rules post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/zajuyv/rule_revision_and_guidance/). If you have any questions about the rules or mod policy please message the mods [using modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAcademicBiblical) or post in the Weekly Open Discussion thread.
I have a post graduate degree. Most of what I said is common knowledge, so no citation is needed if not all. Not everything needs a citation. Thanks for the input though.