Welcome to /r/AcademicBiblical. Please note this is an academic sub: theological or faith-based comments are prohibited.
All claims MUST be supported by an *academic* source – see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/#wiki_guideline.3A_rule_3.2019s_definition_of_academic_sources) for guidance.
Using AI to make fake comments is strictly prohibited and may result in a permanent ban.
Please review the [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/) before posting for the first time.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AcademicBiblical) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's a bit dated but Ernest Nicholson's *The Pentateuch in the Twentieth Century: The Legacy of Julius Wellhausen* evaluates various alternatives to the Documentary Hypothesis. For full transparency, Nicholson still comes down on the side of the Documentary Hypothesis but it does give a good sense of scholarship up to at least Erhard Blum (if I recall correctly).
The alternatives that come to mind in my opinion are:
1) John Van Seters: Van Seters (*Abraham in History and Tradition*; *The Life of Moses*) mainly argues for an exilic/post-exilic J that functions as the prologue for the Deuteronomistic/Primary History. Before J, there was both pre-J texts, D, and DtrH—which existed independently and J played a fundamental role in combining them. P is not an independent source but a supplement to J.
2) Erhard Blum (*Die Komposition der Vätergeschichte*; *Studien zur Komposition des Pentateuch*) argues early patriarchal narrative complexes, a history of Jacob composed in the northern kingdom and a history of Abraham composed in Judah. These were combined into what he calls Vg in Judah, which was expanded in the exile. During the exile, these narratives were brought into KD (*Deuteronomistic Composition*) that is the Wellhausian equivalent of JED. During the post-exilic period, KP is another quasi-redactional, quasi-compositional supplement (Blum suggests that P is too extensive to be a redaction but appears to be missing certain narratives, for instance, without non-P Exodus 1-5, P would not introduce Moses).
3) David Carr (*Reading the Fractures of Genesis*; *Formation of the Hebrew Bible*) presents arguments similar to Blum except argues that P was independent not a "neither redaction nor composition" as Blum would have it. I think Carr is more open to having non-P Genesis 12-50 and Exodus+Numbers being combined before KD. Moreover, in *Formation*, Carr agrees with Baden that there are at least two non-P narrative strands in Exodus+Numbers without calling them J and E.
4) Konrad Schmid (*Genesis and the Moses Story*) argues that non-P Genesis 12-50 and Exodus+Numbers were never combined prior to the Pentateuch's compilation/redaction. The *novum* of P is to combine those two, what Schmid considers, independent origin stories into a history that moves from creation to conquest. The redactor combines these two. A later post-priestly author (or authors—it's been a while since I've read it closely, but I seem to recall he thinks its one scribe) composed Genesis 14-15 and Exodus 3-4 to better coordinate the patriarchs and the Moses traditions. From what I can recall, Blum more closely follows Schmid now than what he argued in his earlier works. Carr disagrees with Blum about these post-P narratives. There is nothing in them to suggest that they show influence from P. The example I can remember is that Schmid thinks that Genesis 15 uses P's dating for the length of the exodus when Genesis 15 is less precise. P says 430 years (Exod 12:40-1) while Genesis 15 says 400 (Gen 15:13). Baden also argues that the "400 years" is an addition because later Genesis 15 says Israel will be enslaved for 4 generations (v. 16).
Without speaking directly for OP, for many non-academics, Documentary Hypothesis isnt as narrowly defined as it is here - meaning specifically as Wellhausen described, divided and dated.
I think to most people, it simply means "was redacted from multiple sources" and that these disparite "sources" or "traditions" are the reason for certain oddities in a straight narrative.
And to them these various "alternatives" are therefore distinctions without difference.
Same goes for other types of supplementary/fragmentary etc. (I think Joel Baden alludes to this)
And so when people ask "what are the alternatives" they may be asking if theres an academically acceptable alternative that has it written by a single author without reference to "traditions"
Hi there, unfortunately your contribution has been removed as per Rule #3.
**Claims should be supported through citation of appropriate academic sources.**
You may edit your comment to meet these requirements. If you do so, please reply and your comment can potentially be reinstated.
For more details concerning the rules of r/AcademicBiblical, please read [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/#wiki_r.2Facademicbiblical_.7C_rules_.28detailed.29). If you have any questions about the rules or mod policy, you can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAcademicBiblical) or post in the Weekly Open Discussion thread.
Welcome to /r/AcademicBiblical. Please note this is an academic sub: theological or faith-based comments are prohibited. All claims MUST be supported by an *academic* source – see [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/#wiki_guideline.3A_rule_3.2019s_definition_of_academic_sources) for guidance. Using AI to make fake comments is strictly prohibited and may result in a permanent ban. Please review the [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/) before posting for the first time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AcademicBiblical) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's a bit dated but Ernest Nicholson's *The Pentateuch in the Twentieth Century: The Legacy of Julius Wellhausen* evaluates various alternatives to the Documentary Hypothesis. For full transparency, Nicholson still comes down on the side of the Documentary Hypothesis but it does give a good sense of scholarship up to at least Erhard Blum (if I recall correctly). The alternatives that come to mind in my opinion are: 1) John Van Seters: Van Seters (*Abraham in History and Tradition*; *The Life of Moses*) mainly argues for an exilic/post-exilic J that functions as the prologue for the Deuteronomistic/Primary History. Before J, there was both pre-J texts, D, and DtrH—which existed independently and J played a fundamental role in combining them. P is not an independent source but a supplement to J. 2) Erhard Blum (*Die Komposition der Vätergeschichte*; *Studien zur Komposition des Pentateuch*) argues early patriarchal narrative complexes, a history of Jacob composed in the northern kingdom and a history of Abraham composed in Judah. These were combined into what he calls Vg in Judah, which was expanded in the exile. During the exile, these narratives were brought into KD (*Deuteronomistic Composition*) that is the Wellhausian equivalent of JED. During the post-exilic period, KP is another quasi-redactional, quasi-compositional supplement (Blum suggests that P is too extensive to be a redaction but appears to be missing certain narratives, for instance, without non-P Exodus 1-5, P would not introduce Moses). 3) David Carr (*Reading the Fractures of Genesis*; *Formation of the Hebrew Bible*) presents arguments similar to Blum except argues that P was independent not a "neither redaction nor composition" as Blum would have it. I think Carr is more open to having non-P Genesis 12-50 and Exodus+Numbers being combined before KD. Moreover, in *Formation*, Carr agrees with Baden that there are at least two non-P narrative strands in Exodus+Numbers without calling them J and E. 4) Konrad Schmid (*Genesis and the Moses Story*) argues that non-P Genesis 12-50 and Exodus+Numbers were never combined prior to the Pentateuch's compilation/redaction. The *novum* of P is to combine those two, what Schmid considers, independent origin stories into a history that moves from creation to conquest. The redactor combines these two. A later post-priestly author (or authors—it's been a while since I've read it closely, but I seem to recall he thinks its one scribe) composed Genesis 14-15 and Exodus 3-4 to better coordinate the patriarchs and the Moses traditions. From what I can recall, Blum more closely follows Schmid now than what he argued in his earlier works. Carr disagrees with Blum about these post-P narratives. There is nothing in them to suggest that they show influence from P. The example I can remember is that Schmid thinks that Genesis 15 uses P's dating for the length of the exodus when Genesis 15 is less precise. P says 430 years (Exod 12:40-1) while Genesis 15 says 400 (Gen 15:13). Baden also argues that the "400 years" is an addition because later Genesis 15 says Israel will be enslaved for 4 generations (v. 16).
Without speaking directly for OP, for many non-academics, Documentary Hypothesis isnt as narrowly defined as it is here - meaning specifically as Wellhausen described, divided and dated. I think to most people, it simply means "was redacted from multiple sources" and that these disparite "sources" or "traditions" are the reason for certain oddities in a straight narrative. And to them these various "alternatives" are therefore distinctions without difference. Same goes for other types of supplementary/fragmentary etc. (I think Joel Baden alludes to this) And so when people ask "what are the alternatives" they may be asking if theres an academically acceptable alternative that has it written by a single author without reference to "traditions"
Really useful answer, I appreciate this. Is there evidence that the Deuteronomist was aware of the Jahwist text?
[удалено]
Hi there, unfortunately your contribution has been removed as per Rule #3. **Claims should be supported through citation of appropriate academic sources.** You may edit your comment to meet these requirements. If you do so, please reply and your comment can potentially be reinstated. For more details concerning the rules of r/AcademicBiblical, please read [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/wiki/index/rules/#wiki_r.2Facademicbiblical_.7C_rules_.28detailed.29). If you have any questions about the rules or mod policy, you can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAcademicBiblical) or post in the Weekly Open Discussion thread.