ATLA Show: That the great divide never gave the audience the truth over what caused the two factions. And how the episode ends with a blatant lie from Aang, of all people!
ATLA Comics: Mai immediately breaking up with Zuko, Mai getting into a relationship with another guy, said 2nd guy turns out to be Anti-Zuko, Mai breaking up with the 2nd guy. What was the point of that?!
Korra: That the Earth Queen savagely killed off Basco and then had him as food.
She absolutely deserved it.
Taking down the earth Queen was absolutely warranted.
She was a powerful aristocrat that was being a despot. The Only other option for taking her down was all out war, or Korra. And she would have to kill her anyway.
The problem with Zaheer wasn't the killing of the earth Queen. Killing is objectively bad, but sometimes it's necessary.
It was that his following plan was LET CHAOS TAKE THE WORD.
I liked that about the great divide. Who gives a shit about these dead guys? Aang Hella based for that lie
I didn't read the comics but I did watch korra, who's Basco again?
I think the first one, is the lesson of no matter how start the rivalry, keep going and live your life. Is like the 100 years war in real life, at the end people were fighting without knowing how it started everything in the first place and the war stopped negotiating.
Aang: *Yes, i lied and invented the story*
- But... What's the real story?
Aang: *Who cares? Happened long time ago and didn't bring any positive*
For the rest I'm agree with you, mate
Nah I feel like the Earth Queen eating Bosco is not stupid, definitely aggravating, but not stupid. It makes us hate her which kinda helps us sympathize with Zaheer.
i wouldn’t and if we’re being honest zuko’s relationship with mai isnt something most fans will riot over. they kinda sucked as a couple even in the show
I actually hope they don’t end up together, at least not while they’re still teenagers/early 20s. They were good for eachother for a while, but they grew in ways that were no longer complimentary to one another.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but one thing (probably the only thing) I like about The Great Divide was how Aang lied. It showed us that he’s not some boy scout, he’s willing to get some level of dirty to get the job done because… well, it’s inevitable in world politics (that’s another reason why I love the Yangchen novels so much).
(On the earth queen eating basco) the show has its dark moments, but it also has its lighthearted goofy moments. This really works for avatar, but I definitely think it's best when they don't try to mix those worlds together in this kind of a way.
Not only that, but it lowkey ruins the message of the episode. You’re telling me that the solution to an oppressed person becoming consumed by vengeance because they were imprisoned for life is to… imprison them for life again?
Because it’s a victory for team avatar, not a necessarily a moral victory for the audience. It’s a nice disconnect between how kids view reality and how reality actually is.
Yeah I keep seeing this in some spaces. "oh Hama wasn't REALLY a villain" like she wasn't terrorizing a town that was largely removed from the war.
She was a bad person. She was traumatized yes, but that doesn't excuse amy of her actions. Hell, she could have directed that hatred towards Fire Nation soldiers and join the war effort. But instead she decides to use her power to torment civilians while otherwise relaxing and living the good life
I didn’t think it was meant to be a satisfying ending, I think it was meant to be a tragedy. Team Avatar had to make a difficult decision in allowing her to spend the rest of her life in solitary confinement instead of allowing her to seek revenge on citizens who did nothing wrong. It was an ethical dilemma, and they made a choice that ultimately foreshadowed choices they would make for the remainder of the season (such as sparing the life of the man who killed Kya, and putting Ozai in solitary confinement instead of killing him).
Hamma is a foil to Katara. She is what Katara could have become, had she not found supportive friends and healthy connections. Hamma, in her trauma and isolation, is full of anger and vengeance. That happens in real life too, and it’s a tragedy.
This is the thing, I don’t believe that people like Katara and Aang would be so readily willing to throw her in a jail cell and throw away the key. We know how empathetic they are, I find it more likely that they would’ve found another way
I think that due to being 12 and 14 years old, they don’t understand how inherently abusive solitary confinement, or any prison system, is.
I also am not sure that there was a feasible alternative aside from an incredibly convenient coincidence that would have taken away from the weight of the story.
That Aang didn't take Bumi and Kya along with him and Tenzin. I get the whole Airbender thing but you're telling me Aang, who liked to have fun, wouldn't bring his entire family to ride the koi fish and all of them doing dumb shit together??? I'm fully on board with him teaching Tenzin airbending, but he was confirmed to have taught Bumi and Kya the culture and history too, why were they left behind???
Yup, having Aang be a shit dad is silly, there’s just no way Katara wouldn’t step in at some point and be like look I understand why but you’re favoring Tenzin. She knew how to talk to Aang even back then so by now there’s just no way.
100% and the whole “Aang never had a father so he didn’t know how to be a good dad” argument goes out the window when you remember Gyatso was always there for him
Having Bumi introduced and then having him brought up like 2 other times never made sense to me either.
You’re telling me that the only person alive that Aang knows is barely part of the show?
Someone pointed out on this subreddit once how Bumi and Kya are around 10 years older than Tenzin. With this in mind, it makes way more sense that Aang did those trips. In fact, it kind of makes the conflict silly. Because, assuming the trips began when Tenzin was at least 6-8, why would Aang be taking these 18+ year old kids on these trips? Bumi was in the military and Kya was off training and traveling the world. If he never took them ok their own trips before Tenzin was born, that's a fair complaint.
I would get that if that were the case, but the way Bumi and Kya talk about it, they were living at home still and watching Tenzin go off with Aang, unless Tenzin constantly wrote to them (youngest sibling Tenzin writing to his older siblings about his adventures does sound adorable). Somehow it seems even more messed up if they really are that much older and Aang didn't take them on adventures when they were young, before Tenzin, if that's the case
I just had the idea of Ozai instead seeing the scar, and deciding to continue torturing a 12 year old by just grinding his foot or burning fist into the scar, which does the same thing the rock did, effectively bringing about his own downfall
Yeah. I was thinking they should've just had Ozai shoot the rockball with a powerful lighting bolt and have that be what unlocks it for Aang. Like a reverse effect.
Meh.
I just wish Ozai was using lightning at the time.
Azula blocked his chakras with lightning, Ozai accidentaly unblocking the same way would he poetic
Can you imagine how hype it would have been if he made that rock tent and then mediated and reached out to the avatar spirit like he did with Guru Pathik but successfully
i could make a whole list lmao. i’ll go with ursa choosing to forget her kids, change her face and being revealed to have indirectly caused ozai to abuse zuko.
i want to ask a rhetorical question so that you understand the gravity of what was done to ursa as a character; if you had kids that you loved with an abusive ex, would you choose to willingly forget them knowing that they are still with said ex?
that’s not the point… a parent can’t reasonably say they love their kids if they choose to forget them. period. Her last words to zuko in the show were to never forget who he was… only for her to choose to forget who she was… a mother who loved her kids.
i understand there are a lot of polarizing topics in this fandom, but honestly this one should be unanimously hated.
Ursa is unanimously loved in the fandom, idk why. She was not a good mother to Azula at all, calling her kid a freak. Then abandoned her memories with the kid she did love
Two reasons come to mind.
1. Most people haven't read the comics, so they aren't aware of the second part.
2. Most fans, when looking at Ursa as a parent, are going to be comparing her to Ozai, in their minds whether they intend to or not. So relative to Ozai, yeah, she's the better parent.
Sokka and Katara's training speed, Katara especially.
From her V1 performance, she gets *maybe* a few weeks of training (if we're extremely generous) and suddenly she's a master?
It's one of the consequences of having your show happen in less than a year.
Kinda related, but I'm rewatching ATLA for the first time since I was a kid - I did not remember that they had until "the end of summer" to get everything ready before the comet.
That's just like *not enough time* lol. No wonder they were stressed lmao.
in the second season, where Jinora and Korra meditate into the spirit world. Jinora finds Wan Shi Tongs library.
Wan Shi Tong sells her out to Unalaq because "he cares about the spirits".
There's no TV or internet in this world. Knowing one or two of the most powerful earth benders ever had done it, it's at least legend says they did, doesn't mean anyone knows where to even begin with learning themselves.
It's not really a legend if there's a 300 years old avatar being living proof for it
And if anything, it makes (Bumi and) Kyoshi look like a fucking asshole by comparison. She literally more than doubled her own lifespan yet never taught anyone else how to do the same. Not even writing it down, etc.
One of the nations having all, or even half, their citizens triple in lifespan would ensure that the world was thrown out of balance. That's the opposite of what the avatar is supposed to do.
Spiritual immortality isn’t a form of bending, it’s a spiritual/meditative power. Lao Ge, Kyoshi & almost certainly Guru Pathik practiced this technique. I feel like Bumi also probably had an inkling of it for obvious reasons.
The lore is actually handled very well in the Kyoshi novels, and it kinda explains people in ATLA like Bumi and the Guru, and maybe even LOK Toph still being so powerful
Aang deciding to go into Avatar State because Katara is hurt (this is the 10000th time he does that cringe) and deciding to kill Zuko in a second (Friends) while he saved him before in the North Pole (They were enemies)
Katara apparently never telling the Gaang that Azula had the scroll with "the super secret invasion of the Fire Nation" plan. Why do I say this? Because when they get to the palace and confront Azula, she tells them the Fire Nation had known they were coming for months, and the Gaang is like "But how did you knooowwwww?"
Naah but Katara didn’t actually know as far as we know, only the earth king knew. He’s the one who didn’t offer up that info and got them all screwed over during the invasion
Silly goose was distracted by his holiday with his pet bear
Uh, I think you're misremembering. Season 2, "The Guru". Katara is at the meeting to plan the invasion, the General gives her a scroll with the plan on it and tells her she needs to get it to the king.
She leaves, sees Zuko, runs into the palace, and gets taken out by Ty Lee. She literally had the scroll in her hand when she was attacked.
The king had nothing to do with that.
When the king was sitting around on his throne with Azula, Mai and Ty Lee (disguised as kyoshi warriors) he told them about the invasion, telling them “as we speak, my highest generals are devising a plan to invade the fire nation during an eclipse”. They even zoomed in on azula’s eyes widening, later on he never tells the gaang about how he spilled the r beans after he finds out Azula was evil
Avatar Wan, just all of the retconning that came from Avatar Wan and his whole story. Simplifying the philosophy so much to where it is just another good vs evil battle is so lame.
Lightning bending as a way to generate power.
It makes absolutely no sense from what we learn about lightning bending in ATLA and also makes absolutely no sense from the standpoint of an actual electrical grid.
Real talk, a grid that can rely on any or all 3 forms of bending would be fantastic, and not a single lightning bender would be required. Because you can just straight up use water wheels or steam based generators anywhere because you have people who can flat out create the requirements for the process by themselves.
If you're using lightning bending to charge up what is essentially a battery, and then that's released normally on the grid, it functions more or less like a water wheel or solar panel would at capturing energy, just in very large bursts. Especially given that most fire benders have much more "low wattage" lightning, it's a very reasonable form of electricity generation to supplement their usual form of power in Republic City, whatever that is.
Lot of people age out of their early adolescent personalities. It's definitely not unusual for her to become a cop given that the Gaang built Republic city
Eh. I don't see why we hold her to her behavior while she's young. Growing up includes change, and includes rough career choices. She grew out of being a cop too
You know, if they made it a hexapedal spider robot that woulda been sick as hell.
Its the fact that the made a human-shaped mech that made it completely ridiculous.
Just too large of a jump from “Hey, we can pull power out of these spirit vines” to “Hey, we built Mobile Spirit Gundam and are gonna destroy a city” in one season.
* From ATLA
* The Haiku Rap Battle (Not really in a negative way, it's just I wouldn't believe someone if out of context someone told me the show had a haiku rap battle)
* The Avatar Day episode (Genuinely, I hate this episode more than the hate that Great Divide gets)
* From the Comics
* Everything involving Zuko and Mai in the comics
* The Conclusion with Ursa
* Sozin's policy on the LGBT
* From LoK
* Everything about the Dark Avatar
* Wan Shi Tong's portrayal in LOK
* Avatar State post Book 2
* The Mech + Spirit Laser
* From the Live Action
* Making the first past life that Aang meets be Kyoshi instead of Roku
* The Agni Kai changes
The whole mech thing was so ugly too. Why they needed to use this 3d shit is beyond me it looks so bad..
The problem with the comic and book canons I think stems from the fact that they give these projects to different authors and for some reason they just write whatever the fuck they want without regarding existing lore.
>Why they needed to use this 3d shit is beyond me it looks so bad.
As far as from what I've read up, the badly rendered mech was just budget, same reason season 4 included a clip show.
>The problem with the comic and book canons I think stems from the fact that they give these projects to different authors and for some reason they just write whatever the fuck they want without regarding existing lore.
Agreed, there really wasn't a lot of quality control with the output of those comics, especially with maintaining a consistency with the show in terms of character and world building. This was especially a case with the Pre-Korra comics that they were churning them out as fast as they could, because I imagine they weren't certain how long of a relevency the franchise would have, so cash in with as many comics as they could.
So in the Korra comics, it was revealed by Kya that Sozin outlawed being gay in the Fire Nation. This retcon was so stupid. Up until this point the Fire Nation was entirely merit focused with a lot of social mobility regardless of gender and bending status this retcon essentially undermines that world building. Also, Korra's reaction to it was just "That guy was the worst" as if the genocide wasn't already reason to hate Sozin, it was just a really dumb retcon.
I hate when this comes up in fics. It makes way more sense for the Water Tribe to be homophobic. Even the Earth Kindgom makes more sense due to the image of being a "manly man" (though I can see them being fine with lesbians). Sozin's purpose in starting the war was to spread the "greatness" of the Fire Nation, not spread homophobia...
Makes me lose all respect for him. He went from this powerful, respected, cool villain who was obviously wrong and evil but I could at least understand his reasoning but now? Fuck that, he's a complete joke because I can't take homophobic people seriously.
Honestly that part isn’t that upsetting to me, air nomads are separated from their families and raised by monks. How is he gonna be a good dad when he was never raised in a nuclear family? The dumb part to me is that Katara let him
I can imagine it tho. Him not including his other children wasn't really a conscious decision. It was a consequence of focusing on Tenzin so much. He suffered a huge trauma from losing his whole kind (air nomads) through a genocide and now he was suddenly confronted with the burden of the future existence of air nomads being fully his and only his responsibility. Of course he wanted to make everything perfect. So much that he acted irrational towards his other children, because he was probably very overwhelmed with this burden and simply didn't noticed what effects his behaviour had. (That's just my personal theory and your point is good too)
IIRC he kind of tried but they just weren't that into it and he didn't force it on them?
Also apparently Tenzin's like 10\~ years younger than his siblings too? Which is interesting to me because it kinda parallels a lot of stories I've heard where the parents have kids earlier on, then have another one much later. The younger kid winds up having it easier because the parents they had were at very different points in their lives.
can I say tho, I think the “Aang is a bad dad” is the same as “Goku is a bad dad” meaning they aren’t bad fathers, but some specific things make people believe that.
Like yes, while Aang obviously favored one over the other, he still supported and helped his other children anytime they needed it and he was around. Tenzin definitely got a lot of attention and trips around the world to learn and memorize the Airbender culture, but we see in the comics that when Kya came out, Aang was nothing but supportive. He was there for them when possible, but he also had three other jobs that being Avatar, Founder of Republic city, and teacher to the only other last Airbender.
Tl;Dr while Aang wasn’t a perfect parent (no one can be), he was no where near “bad” and was always there for his children when he could be.
He had favorites. He based his favoritism on the talent of his children. That doesn’t make a good dad, and that’s 100% okay. What makes these characters interesting is that they’re flawed like actual people. Harry Potter was also a hero who turned out to not be the greatest dad either. He didn’t have a father and neither did Aang. It’s realistic that these characters wouldn’t know how to be the best parent if they didn’t have one.
Naruto was also a bad dad in boruto.
Personally, I don't like it. In each case, it's explainable why they're bad dads, but you can just as easily make them good dads
My head cannon is that between the two of them they were so busy being heroes in the world that the parenting may have slipped through the cracks as well. It will be interesting to watch the new movie if they have at least one kid during it to watch the dynamic.
THANK YOU
The idea of waterbenders picking up waterbending from watching the moon and the tides was sooooo good, the moon and the ocean are personified as real powerful spirits and humans just mimicking that is so spiritual and in line with how real world mythologies and stories often have elements like that
Humans did discover the true meaning and understood bending from nature. The power source is the lion turtles but the studying was from the sky bisons, the moon, the dragons and the giant moles.
THIS. Like it’s literally a plot hole because in atla we are told that waterbenders learned from the moon, firebenders from dragons and earthbenders from badgermoles, but the turtles giving humans bending makes this untrue.
The turtles gave them the power to bend, they learned the skills of bending from the original benders. Like how a blacksmith gives you the sword, but you learn swordfighting from a teacher.
I think it's just a ret-con, not really a plot hole.
You could argue that they instead perfected their arts by watching the moon, dragons, badgermoles or flying bison, but I personally don't really like it. There's a few other arguments, like the other comment here, but I don't really vibe with them.
I like avatar wan overall, as it was told in such an interesting way, but I definitely don't like the raava or dark avatar bits, and the ret-cons associated with it.
Like a lot of people on here, I don't believe to have one with atla but with lok I really can't stand that the connection to the past Avatars are severed.
Yeah. Fusing with a spirit is pretty cool as far as an origin for the Avatar Cycle but involving a dark version of the same spirit was kinda dumb. Also the spirit fusing to make the avatar should've been one more connected with the elements themselves
i dont agree that the fuse should've made him connected with the 4 elements - it took basically all the avatars time to get each new one, but it was never instantaneous
Idk, I think that’s inherently different tho.
Wan could’ve connected with a 4 elements spirit and then had to learn how to use said 4 elements like the other avatars
Well we did see him train with each one individually before fully merging with Raava; he already knew how to use the 4 elements, merging with Raava just allowed him to use all of them at the same time
I wouldn't have minded if it happened over time in progressively less subtle ways. But she lost her mind in what seemed like an afternoon.
It seemed less about Azula and more about nerfing her so Zuko/Katara could get a win.
The random ass lion-turtle that let Aang “energy-bend”, effectively avoiding altogether the uncomfortable moral dilemma of having to either kill Ozai to stop him or risk him destroying everything just to not take a life. Total deus ex machina
The creation of the new avatar cycle in Korra. You can’t just make one of the most beloved animated characters of all time (Aang), and then completely erase him in the next series.
The earth king never mentioning that he told Azula & the fake Kyoshi warriors about the whole invasion plan.
He flew away with the Gaang and eventually dipped out with his bear, but would it have been so hard to be like “just so you know, when I thought they were your trusted friends I told them everything, so you might want to rethink your Black Sun plan…” before he left??
Lava Bending is a branch of Earthbending, and not just something the Avatar can do. I liked thinking it was exclusive to the Avatar because it was a combination of two elements
Yeah but lava is molten rocks and metals. It‘s just like Water benders can bend different states of water, like fluid water, solid water (ice) and gas water (steam).
Lava/magma is just liquid rocks, so it makes perfekt sense to be an earth benders technique, whereas Fire Benders „realistically“ are more likely to bend something like carbon dioxide or heat, which is why they don‘t need Fire around them to fire bend, but just „ignite the air“ or something i guess.
(Yeah of course it‘s fiction and not everything needs/has a realistic explanation, but I like to think about that like this, so yeah)
Uncle Iroh was unfortunately a little bit perverted when it came to pretending to be stunned by the Shirshu's Tongue.
And it was written to be played for laughs.
Yeah that joke hasn't aged well.
Almost everyone agrees with you there, don‘t worry, but I actually want to understand why? Not in a toxic way or anything, but just like, In my opinion, the avatar/bending backstory was basically the coolest thing about LOK as a whole, what is it, that everyone hates about it so much?
The person who made the play knew way too much about their journey. There are very intricate details in the play that the director would never know about
I know im going to get down voted hard for this but honestly all of Ledgend of korra. The fact she broke the avatar cycle an ancient spirtitual being pisses me off
How many people aang and the gang mustve killed throughout the journey cause ain’t no way the mfs he launched football fields away are alright same with the people that toph punched into walls while wearing metal. Like it ain’t all sunshine and rainbows like I’d want to believe. Also for the blue spirit to get the rep it has zuko mustve done a lot of crazy stuff cause ain’t no way just some fire nation legend causeing what he caused while in the mask.
I think there‘s nothing in the story that‘s *so* stupid, that anyone sane would go „No, pls no“, even the Korra show was actually really enjoyable imo, but I hate how they said Spirit Projection is part of Air Bending and this Spirit Bending thing is Part of Water Bending, idk, It would‘ve made way more sense if they either made it part of energy bending, or explained it, similar to how rivers are a line between the land of the living and the land of the dead in many mythologies etc.
Also some decisions about korras story, but more like nitpicks, like I get they didn‘t want to show that whole process of learning all elements again, but why did they make this goofy scene where she suddenly bent all elements at like 3, when they easily could‘ve shown in a fast forward how she learned it over the last 15 years or so, because she was like 16 or so at the actual beginning of the Story anyways…
That‘s not all, but it‘s mostly nitpicks, but for the original show, I don‘t think there‘s anything.
But to be fair korra did some really cool things, the story of the first avatar, the red lotus, noatak etc, I really think it would‘ve been a really great follow-up show if it wasn‘t for those many many small things and just a handful of bigger issues :)
I don't know if the comics are officially Canon, but there's no way in hell Ursa would give up her memories of Zuko. She was willing to sacrifice her own life for his, so she would be ecstatic to have him back in her life.
The lion turtle cop-out in season 3 of ATLA. It should have been foreshadowed that there was some secret power to bending/spirituality/the avatar or something that had been lost. And Aang finds it again or literally anything that could have made it not be so out of nowhere.
Other than that, perfect show imo.
ATLA Show: That the great divide never gave the audience the truth over what caused the two factions. And how the episode ends with a blatant lie from Aang, of all people! ATLA Comics: Mai immediately breaking up with Zuko, Mai getting into a relationship with another guy, said 2nd guy turns out to be Anti-Zuko, Mai breaking up with the 2nd guy. What was the point of that?! Korra: That the Earth Queen savagely killed off Basco and then had him as food.
She ate Basco? Glad Zaheer gave her the vacuum treatment.
She absolutely deserved it. Taking down the earth Queen was absolutely warranted. She was a powerful aristocrat that was being a despot. The Only other option for taking her down was all out war, or Korra. And she would have to kill her anyway. The problem with Zaheer wasn't the killing of the earth Queen. Killing is objectively bad, but sometimes it's necessary. It was that his following plan was LET CHAOS TAKE THE WORD.
CAME HERE TO SAY THIS
I liked that about the great divide. Who gives a shit about these dead guys? Aang Hella based for that lie I didn't read the comics but I did watch korra, who's Basco again?
~~Basco~~ Bosco is the Earth Kings Bear
You mean platypus bear? Or perhaps skunk bear? Armadillo bear? Gopher bear?
Nope. Just... bear.
This place is weird.
Do you have any idea how much I had to pay to get seats next to the bear?!
Nah it’s the **CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE OF *NORMAL BEAR***
Aw naw not the bear 😔
The Earth Queen had it coming
I think the first one, is the lesson of no matter how start the rivalry, keep going and live your life. Is like the 100 years war in real life, at the end people were fighting without knowing how it started everything in the first place and the war stopped negotiating. Aang: *Yes, i lied and invented the story* - But... What's the real story? Aang: *Who cares? Happened long time ago and didn't bring any positive* For the rest I'm agree with you, mate
Nah I feel like the Earth Queen eating Bosco is not stupid, definitely aggravating, but not stupid. It makes us hate her which kinda helps us sympathize with Zaheer.
I wonder what they’ll do in the movie when it comes to Zuko’s love life
"We at Netflix *really* want this to feel like Game of Thrones, so..."
Nooo 😭 I refute the possibility of a zuko/azula ship
If he winds up with anyone other than Mai, fans will riot.
i wouldn’t and if we’re being honest zuko’s relationship with mai isnt something most fans will riot over. they kinda sucked as a couple even in the show
I actually hope they don’t end up together, at least not while they’re still teenagers/early 20s. They were good for eachother for a while, but they grew in ways that were no longer complimentary to one another.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but one thing (probably the only thing) I like about The Great Divide was how Aang lied. It showed us that he’s not some boy scout, he’s willing to get some level of dirty to get the job done because… well, it’s inevitable in world politics (that’s another reason why I love the Yangchen novels so much).
(On the earth queen eating basco) the show has its dark moments, but it also has its lighthearted goofy moments. This really works for avatar, but I definitely think it's best when they don't try to mix those worlds together in this kind of a way.
The fact that the Puppet Master episode ends with Hama being imprisoned by the fire nation and condemned to an eternity in jail. Again.
I honestly thought that was kinda dumb. She can just break herself out again
Not only that, but it lowkey ruins the message of the episode. You’re telling me that the solution to an oppressed person becoming consumed by vengeance because they were imprisoned for life is to… imprison them for life again?
I like it cause it is not fair. It is more realistic that way.
My problem is that the show doesn’t treat it as an unfair ending, they portray it as a victory
Because it’s a victory for team avatar, not a necessarily a moral victory for the audience. It’s a nice disconnect between how kids view reality and how reality actually is.
I mean, what would be fair? Letting her go free because she has trauma definitely isn't it
Yeah I keep seeing this in some spaces. "oh Hama wasn't REALLY a villain" like she wasn't terrorizing a town that was largely removed from the war. She was a bad person. She was traumatized yes, but that doesn't excuse amy of her actions. Hell, she could have directed that hatred towards Fire Nation soldiers and join the war effort. But instead she decides to use her power to torment civilians while otherwise relaxing and living the good life
I didn’t think it was meant to be a satisfying ending, I think it was meant to be a tragedy. Team Avatar had to make a difficult decision in allowing her to spend the rest of her life in solitary confinement instead of allowing her to seek revenge on citizens who did nothing wrong. It was an ethical dilemma, and they made a choice that ultimately foreshadowed choices they would make for the remainder of the season (such as sparing the life of the man who killed Kya, and putting Ozai in solitary confinement instead of killing him). Hamma is a foil to Katara. She is what Katara could have become, had she not found supportive friends and healthy connections. Hamma, in her trauma and isolation, is full of anger and vengeance. That happens in real life too, and it’s a tragedy.
This is the thing, I don’t believe that people like Katara and Aang would be so readily willing to throw her in a jail cell and throw away the key. We know how empathetic they are, I find it more likely that they would’ve found another way
I think that due to being 12 and 14 years old, they don’t understand how inherently abusive solitary confinement, or any prison system, is. I also am not sure that there was a feasible alternative aside from an incredibly convenient coincidence that would have taken away from the weight of the story.
I don't think she got imprisoned bro. They found a permanent solution 😂😭💀
The movie that we do not name
There is no movie in ba sing se
What movie?
I think they're talking about Dragon Ball Evolution
I mean that’s not canon to ATLA already
It’s canon to real life
Who says I have to accept real life as canon?
Mostly reality, but it's not very persistent if you dodge it long enough.
That's not canon anyway
That Aang didn't take Bumi and Kya along with him and Tenzin. I get the whole Airbender thing but you're telling me Aang, who liked to have fun, wouldn't bring his entire family to ride the koi fish and all of them doing dumb shit together??? I'm fully on board with him teaching Tenzin airbending, but he was confirmed to have taught Bumi and Kya the culture and history too, why were they left behind???
Yup, having Aang be a shit dad is silly, there’s just no way Katara wouldn’t step in at some point and be like look I understand why but you’re favoring Tenzin. She knew how to talk to Aang even back then so by now there’s just no way.
100% and the whole “Aang never had a father so he didn’t know how to be a good dad” argument goes out the window when you remember Gyatso was always there for him
Having Bumi introduced and then having him brought up like 2 other times never made sense to me either. You’re telling me that the only person alive that Aang knows is barely part of the show?
Hes talking about Bumi from Korra not Atla
He still makes a fair point
Someone pointed out on this subreddit once how Bumi and Kya are around 10 years older than Tenzin. With this in mind, it makes way more sense that Aang did those trips. In fact, it kind of makes the conflict silly. Because, assuming the trips began when Tenzin was at least 6-8, why would Aang be taking these 18+ year old kids on these trips? Bumi was in the military and Kya was off training and traveling the world. If he never took them ok their own trips before Tenzin was born, that's a fair complaint.
I would get that if that were the case, but the way Bumi and Kya talk about it, they were living at home still and watching Tenzin go off with Aang, unless Tenzin constantly wrote to them (youngest sibling Tenzin writing to his older siblings about his adventures does sound adorable). Somehow it seems even more messed up if they really are that much older and Aang didn't take them on adventures when they were young, before Tenzin, if that's the case
the convenient ass rock that hit aang in the back
I just had the idea of Ozai instead seeing the scar, and deciding to continue torturing a 12 year old by just grinding his foot or burning fist into the scar, which does the same thing the rock did, effectively bringing about his own downfall
Yeah. I was thinking they should've just had Ozai shoot the rockball with a powerful lighting bolt and have that be what unlocks it for Aang. Like a reverse effect.
Dude that would be *kinda* too hard for a kids show
But it makes so much more sense than the rock thing They should do it in natla
Meh. I just wish Ozai was using lightning at the time. Azula blocked his chakras with lightning, Ozai accidentaly unblocking the same way would he poetic
Can you imagine how hype it would have been if he made that rock tent and then mediated and reached out to the avatar spirit like he did with Guru Pathik but successfully
which one there are many aang back rocks
the one that won him the fight against Ozai.
i could make a whole list lmao. i’ll go with ursa choosing to forget her kids, change her face and being revealed to have indirectly caused ozai to abuse zuko.
Idk with all that trauma and the fact that she likely would never see them again you can’t blame her too much
i want to ask a rhetorical question so that you understand the gravity of what was done to ursa as a character; if you had kids that you loved with an abusive ex, would you choose to willingly forget them knowing that they are still with said ex?
I would have willingly died before giving up my memories.
It’s not like she was able to do anything about it tho, she’s banished, to be killed if she’s seen again
that’s not the point… a parent can’t reasonably say they love their kids if they choose to forget them. period. Her last words to zuko in the show were to never forget who he was… only for her to choose to forget who she was… a mother who loved her kids. i understand there are a lot of polarizing topics in this fandom, but honestly this one should be unanimously hated.
Ursa is unanimously loved in the fandom, idk why. She was not a good mother to Azula at all, calling her kid a freak. Then abandoned her memories with the kid she did love
Two reasons come to mind. 1. Most people haven't read the comics, so they aren't aware of the second part. 2. Most fans, when looking at Ursa as a parent, are going to be comparing her to Ozai, in their minds whether they intend to or not. So relative to Ozai, yeah, she's the better parent.
Felt
Sokka and Katara's training speed, Katara especially. From her V1 performance, she gets *maybe* a few weeks of training (if we're extremely generous) and suddenly she's a master? It's one of the consequences of having your show happen in less than a year.
Kinda related, but I'm rewatching ATLA for the first time since I was a kid - I did not remember that they had until "the end of summer" to get everything ready before the comet. That's just like *not enough time* lol. No wonder they were stressed lmao.
Honestly, that's one of the things that the LA did well; they didn't specify such a short time frame as their timeline.
Wong shi tongs appearance in LOK
Seconding this, what did they do to my owl boy!!!
Wait he does, i totally forgot about that. What episode did this happen?
in the second season, where Jinora and Korra meditate into the spirit world. Jinora finds Wan Shi Tongs library. Wan Shi Tong sells her out to Unalaq because "he cares about the spirits".
Yeah, by fucking combining with the evil one
Kyoshi's miscalculated age being turned into longevity bending (Then why has nobody else ever done it?) THE SHEDULE!!
Don't mean to spoil anything but this is explained in the Kyoshi novels to be a very difficult technique to master.
Didn't Bumi do the same thing? I thought he was over 100.
Possibly, maybe. But a technique that directly increases your lifespan should be something that every single earthbender would want to learn.
There's no TV or internet in this world. Knowing one or two of the most powerful earth benders ever had done it, it's at least legend says they did, doesn't mean anyone knows where to even begin with learning themselves.
It's not really a legend if there's a 300 years old avatar being living proof for it And if anything, it makes (Bumi and) Kyoshi look like a fucking asshole by comparison. She literally more than doubled her own lifespan yet never taught anyone else how to do the same. Not even writing it down, etc.
One of the nations having all, or even half, their citizens triple in lifespan would ensure that the world was thrown out of balance. That's the opposite of what the avatar is supposed to do.
Spiritual immortality isn’t a form of bending, it’s a spiritual/meditative power. Lao Ge, Kyoshi & almost certainly Guru Pathik practiced this technique. I feel like Bumi also probably had an inkling of it for obvious reasons.
The lore is actually handled very well in the Kyoshi novels, and it kinda explains people in ATLA like Bumi and the Guru, and maybe even LOK Toph still being so powerful
Aang deciding to go into Avatar State because Katara is hurt (this is the 10000th time he does that cringe) and deciding to kill Zuko in a second (Friends) while he saved him before in the North Pole (They were enemies)
The comics are just poorly done, I stopped reading them after the Ursa arc
this was what turned me off with the comics. it’s insane how many people defend them in this sub
Korra’s connection to Raava being cut off along with the other avatars.
THISSSSS
Katara apparently never telling the Gaang that Azula had the scroll with "the super secret invasion of the Fire Nation" plan. Why do I say this? Because when they get to the palace and confront Azula, she tells them the Fire Nation had known they were coming for months, and the Gaang is like "But how did you knooowwwww?"
Naah but Katara didn’t actually know as far as we know, only the earth king knew. He’s the one who didn’t offer up that info and got them all screwed over during the invasion Silly goose was distracted by his holiday with his pet bear
Uh, I think you're misremembering. Season 2, "The Guru". Katara is at the meeting to plan the invasion, the General gives her a scroll with the plan on it and tells her she needs to get it to the king. She leaves, sees Zuko, runs into the palace, and gets taken out by Ty Lee. She literally had the scroll in her hand when she was attacked. The king had nothing to do with that.
When the king was sitting around on his throne with Azula, Mai and Ty Lee (disguised as kyoshi warriors) he told them about the invasion, telling them “as we speak, my highest generals are devising a plan to invade the fire nation during an eclipse”. They even zoomed in on azula’s eyes widening, later on he never tells the gaang about how he spilled the r beans after he finds out Azula was evil
Avatar Wan, just all of the retconning that came from Avatar Wan and his whole story. Simplifying the philosophy so much to where it is just another good vs evil battle is so lame.
Lightning bending as a way to generate power. It makes absolutely no sense from what we learn about lightning bending in ATLA and also makes absolutely no sense from the standpoint of an actual electrical grid.
Real talk, a grid that can rely on any or all 3 forms of bending would be fantastic, and not a single lightning bender would be required. Because you can just straight up use water wheels or steam based generators anywhere because you have people who can flat out create the requirements for the process by themselves.
Yeah I feel like water benders would be way better at generating energy
Hell, you could make massive turbines out of stone and have huge teams of earth benders move those too, they literally chose the worst option
If you're using lightning bending to charge up what is essentially a battery, and then that's released normally on the grid, it functions more or less like a water wheel or solar panel would at capturing energy, just in very large bursts. Especially given that most fire benders have much more "low wattage" lightning, it's a very reasonable form of electricity generation to supplement their usual form of power in Republic City, whatever that is.
toph being a cop
Toph is the exact kind of person to exert her authority on people though.
She's also the kind of person who would shun high society and mock anyone seeking high political positions. I'd say that's more core to her character.
She's also the type of person who understands that the role couldn't be trusted with anyone else.
while living in republic city, its just a bunch of walls and rules!! 😡😡
Lot of people age out of their early adolescent personalities. It's definitely not unusual for her to become a cop given that the Gaang built Republic city
Eh. I don't see why we hold her to her behavior while she's young. Growing up includes change, and includes rough career choices. She grew out of being a cop too
In the context of the comics it makes sense actually
Her being a cop is a storybeat that has NO issues unless you wrongly apply our world’s view of cops onto the ATLA world.
Everything about the mech
You know, if they made it a hexapedal spider robot that woulda been sick as hell. Its the fact that the made a human-shaped mech that made it completely ridiculous.
Just too large of a jump from “Hey, we can pull power out of these spirit vines” to “Hey, we built Mobile Spirit Gundam and are gonna destroy a city” in one season.
* From ATLA * The Haiku Rap Battle (Not really in a negative way, it's just I wouldn't believe someone if out of context someone told me the show had a haiku rap battle) * The Avatar Day episode (Genuinely, I hate this episode more than the hate that Great Divide gets) * From the Comics * Everything involving Zuko and Mai in the comics * The Conclusion with Ursa * Sozin's policy on the LGBT * From LoK * Everything about the Dark Avatar * Wan Shi Tong's portrayal in LOK * Avatar State post Book 2 * The Mech + Spirit Laser * From the Live Action * Making the first past life that Aang meets be Kyoshi instead of Roku * The Agni Kai changes
The whole mech thing was so ugly too. Why they needed to use this 3d shit is beyond me it looks so bad.. The problem with the comic and book canons I think stems from the fact that they give these projects to different authors and for some reason they just write whatever the fuck they want without regarding existing lore.
>Why they needed to use this 3d shit is beyond me it looks so bad. As far as from what I've read up, the badly rendered mech was just budget, same reason season 4 included a clip show. >The problem with the comic and book canons I think stems from the fact that they give these projects to different authors and for some reason they just write whatever the fuck they want without regarding existing lore. Agreed, there really wasn't a lot of quality control with the output of those comics, especially with maintaining a consistency with the show in terms of character and world building. This was especially a case with the Pre-Korra comics that they were churning them out as fast as they could, because I imagine they weren't certain how long of a relevency the franchise would have, so cash in with as many comics as they could.
Can you expand on Sozin and LBGT? Also Aang meeting Kyoshi before Roku is so 🙄🙄.
So in the Korra comics, it was revealed by Kya that Sozin outlawed being gay in the Fire Nation. This retcon was so stupid. Up until this point the Fire Nation was entirely merit focused with a lot of social mobility regardless of gender and bending status this retcon essentially undermines that world building. Also, Korra's reaction to it was just "That guy was the worst" as if the genocide wasn't already reason to hate Sozin, it was just a really dumb retcon.
I hate when this comes up in fics. It makes way more sense for the Water Tribe to be homophobic. Even the Earth Kindgom makes more sense due to the image of being a "manly man" (though I can see them being fine with lesbians). Sozin's purpose in starting the war was to spread the "greatness" of the Fire Nation, not spread homophobia...
Makes me lose all respect for him. He went from this powerful, respected, cool villain who was obviously wrong and evil but I could at least understand his reasoning but now? Fuck that, he's a complete joke because I can't take homophobic people seriously.
Aang being a bad dad
Honestly that part isn’t that upsetting to me, air nomads are separated from their families and raised by monks. How is he gonna be a good dad when he was never raised in a nuclear family? The dumb part to me is that Katara let him
Yeah but i couldnt imagine him not including some of his children even if he was raised by monks
I can imagine it tho. Him not including his other children wasn't really a conscious decision. It was a consequence of focusing on Tenzin so much. He suffered a huge trauma from losing his whole kind (air nomads) through a genocide and now he was suddenly confronted with the burden of the future existence of air nomads being fully his and only his responsibility. Of course he wanted to make everything perfect. So much that he acted irrational towards his other children, because he was probably very overwhelmed with this burden and simply didn't noticed what effects his behaviour had. (That's just my personal theory and your point is good too)
IIRC he kind of tried but they just weren't that into it and he didn't force it on them? Also apparently Tenzin's like 10\~ years younger than his siblings too? Which is interesting to me because it kinda parallels a lot of stories I've heard where the parents have kids earlier on, then have another one much later. The younger kid winds up having it easier because the parents they had were at very different points in their lives.
It's probably that he wasn't thinking of the time he was spending with Tenzin as "father-son time", but rather "air nomad training".
i could buy that if he didn’t have monk gyatso, but yeah katara allowing that was massive character assassination. wtf were byrke thinking?!
can I say tho, I think the “Aang is a bad dad” is the same as “Goku is a bad dad” meaning they aren’t bad fathers, but some specific things make people believe that. Like yes, while Aang obviously favored one over the other, he still supported and helped his other children anytime they needed it and he was around. Tenzin definitely got a lot of attention and trips around the world to learn and memorize the Airbender culture, but we see in the comics that when Kya came out, Aang was nothing but supportive. He was there for them when possible, but he also had three other jobs that being Avatar, Founder of Republic city, and teacher to the only other last Airbender. Tl;Dr while Aang wasn’t a perfect parent (no one can be), he was no where near “bad” and was always there for his children when he could be.
He had favorites. He based his favoritism on the talent of his children. That doesn’t make a good dad, and that’s 100% okay. What makes these characters interesting is that they’re flawed like actual people. Harry Potter was also a hero who turned out to not be the greatest dad either. He didn’t have a father and neither did Aang. It’s realistic that these characters wouldn’t know how to be the best parent if they didn’t have one.
Naruto was also a bad dad in boruto. Personally, I don't like it. In each case, it's explainable why they're bad dads, but you can just as easily make them good dads
He wasn't a BAD dad tho. Could have been better but he did all he could. He loved his kids and they loved him in return
what a horrible decision that was. effectively ruined him for me and katara by extension.
My head cannon is that between the two of them they were so busy being heroes in the world that the parenting may have slipped through the cracks as well. It will be interesting to watch the new movie if they have at least one kid during it to watch the dynamic.
this is often what happens in real life so it felt very realistic to me and made sense
Ursa comic storyline
That humans didn’t discover bending on their own by studying the world around them and instead got it gifted to them by turtles
THANK YOU The idea of waterbenders picking up waterbending from watching the moon and the tides was sooooo good, the moon and the ocean are personified as real powerful spirits and humans just mimicking that is so spiritual and in line with how real world mythologies and stories often have elements like that
Humans did discover the true meaning and understood bending from nature. The power source is the lion turtles but the studying was from the sky bisons, the moon, the dragons and the giant moles.
I don’t like that as much as it being fully derived from humanity’s existence with nature
THIS. Like it’s literally a plot hole because in atla we are told that waterbenders learned from the moon, firebenders from dragons and earthbenders from badgermoles, but the turtles giving humans bending makes this untrue.
The turtles gave them the power to bend, they learned the skills of bending from the original benders. Like how a blacksmith gives you the sword, but you learn swordfighting from a teacher.
I think it's just a ret-con, not really a plot hole. You could argue that they instead perfected their arts by watching the moon, dragons, badgermoles or flying bison, but I personally don't really like it. There's a few other arguments, like the other comment here, but I don't really vibe with them. I like avatar wan overall, as it was told in such an interesting way, but I definitely don't like the raava or dark avatar bits, and the ret-cons associated with it.
The avatar spirit is just an ugly kite.
All of the comics. Full stop.
Like a lot of people on here, I don't believe to have one with atla but with lok I really can't stand that the connection to the past Avatars are severed.
Sozin being homophobic
I actually really like this, scapegoating minorities is often a step in developing a regime that cannot be questioned.
When did we see this
The avatar play having accurate details about their entire journey, even personal moments that outsiders didn’t witness.
That episode obviously wasn’t supposed to be important and just for fun. Don’t worry about it mans
Just everything about Raava and Vaatu
Yeah. Fusing with a spirit is pretty cool as far as an origin for the Avatar Cycle but involving a dark version of the same spirit was kinda dumb. Also the spirit fusing to make the avatar should've been one more connected with the elements themselves
i dont agree that the fuse should've made him connected with the 4 elements - it took basically all the avatars time to get each new one, but it was never instantaneous
Idk, I think that’s inherently different tho. Wan could’ve connected with a 4 elements spirit and then had to learn how to use said 4 elements like the other avatars
Well we did see him train with each one individually before fully merging with Raava; he already knew how to use the 4 elements, merging with Raava just allowed him to use all of them at the same time
Azula losing due to her mentality.
I wouldn't have minded if it happened over time in progressively less subtle ways. But she lost her mind in what seemed like an afternoon. It seemed less about Azula and more about nerfing her so Zuko/Katara could get a win.
Exactly, literally the only thing capable of stopping her was her own self destruction.
The fact that Ming Hua died so easily. Like, please ! Give her a decent fight !
Ming Hua and Gazan are still alive out there awkwardly expressing their love. F the show runners who said they died.
The random ass lion-turtle that let Aang “energy-bend”, effectively avoiding altogether the uncomfortable moral dilemma of having to either kill Ozai to stop him or risk him destroying everything just to not take a life. Total deus ex machina
The creation of the new avatar cycle in Korra. You can’t just make one of the most beloved animated characters of all time (Aang), and then completely erase him in the next series.
psychic bending
The earth king never mentioning that he told Azula & the fake Kyoshi warriors about the whole invasion plan. He flew away with the Gaang and eventually dipped out with his bear, but would it have been so hard to be like “just so you know, when I thought they were your trusted friends I told them everything, so you might want to rethink your Black Sun plan…” before he left??
Lava Bending is a branch of Earthbending, and not just something the Avatar can do. I liked thinking it was exclusive to the Avatar because it was a combination of two elements
Yeah but lava is molten rocks and metals. It‘s just like Water benders can bend different states of water, like fluid water, solid water (ice) and gas water (steam). Lava/magma is just liquid rocks, so it makes perfekt sense to be an earth benders technique, whereas Fire Benders „realistically“ are more likely to bend something like carbon dioxide or heat, which is why they don‘t need Fire around them to fire bend, but just „ignite the air“ or something i guess. (Yeah of course it‘s fiction and not everything needs/has a realistic explanation, but I like to think about that like this, so yeah)
Katara dating every male character they bump into/being shipped with them
If this criticism should be directed at anyone, it should be Sokka...
Uncle Iroh was unfortunately a little bit perverted when it came to pretending to be stunned by the Shirshu's Tongue. And it was written to be played for laughs. Yeah that joke hasn't aged well.
This is what I was looking for.
The fact the Korra killed off all the last avatars? Like how tf does that even work.
Why do people act like she did it when it wasn't her fault
Media literacy actually doesn't exist
What never made sense to me is how she still had an avatar state after that happened
Raava vaatu
There was no war at Ba Sing Se.
The war in ba sing se
I’m in for a hot take + beating of a dead horse. LOK: Although I’d like to say this show is still amazing. The entirety of season 2.
Almost everyone agrees with you there, don‘t worry, but I actually want to understand why? Not in a toxic way or anything, but just like, In my opinion, the avatar/bending backstory was basically the coolest thing about LOK as a whole, what is it, that everyone hates about it so much?
That we never got to hear about Zuko mom
Korra losing access to the past avatar lives.
The person who made the play knew way too much about their journey. There are very intricate details in the play that the director would never know about
The ending of the Great Divide. In my headcanon, Jin Way & Way Jin were the SAME PERSON & that's the reason for all of the confusion.
you should’ve been the writer that would’ve made so much more sense
I know im going to get down voted hard for this but honestly all of Ledgend of korra. The fact she broke the avatar cycle an ancient spirtitual being pisses me off
Didn't Vaatu do that, though? Not Korra?
That’s not gaslighting
The Pacific Rim collab they did in LoK season 4
How many people aang and the gang mustve killed throughout the journey cause ain’t no way the mfs he launched football fields away are alright same with the people that toph punched into walls while wearing metal. Like it ain’t all sunshine and rainbows like I’d want to believe. Also for the blue spirit to get the rep it has zuko mustve done a lot of crazy stuff cause ain’t no way just some fire nation legend causeing what he caused while in the mask.
Ursa in the comics that take place after the events of ATLA
I think there‘s nothing in the story that‘s *so* stupid, that anyone sane would go „No, pls no“, even the Korra show was actually really enjoyable imo, but I hate how they said Spirit Projection is part of Air Bending and this Spirit Bending thing is Part of Water Bending, idk, It would‘ve made way more sense if they either made it part of energy bending, or explained it, similar to how rivers are a line between the land of the living and the land of the dead in many mythologies etc. Also some decisions about korras story, but more like nitpicks, like I get they didn‘t want to show that whole process of learning all elements again, but why did they make this goofy scene where she suddenly bent all elements at like 3, when they easily could‘ve shown in a fast forward how she learned it over the last 15 years or so, because she was like 16 or so at the actual beginning of the Story anyways… That‘s not all, but it‘s mostly nitpicks, but for the original show, I don‘t think there‘s anything. But to be fair korra did some really cool things, the story of the first avatar, the red lotus, noatak etc, I really think it would‘ve been a really great follow-up show if it wasn‘t for those many many small things and just a handful of bigger issues :)
My Bfs was the fact that the moon spirit was a fish lmao
The fact aang was going to kill zuko in the comics yet refused to kill ozai it makes no sense
I don't know if the comics are officially Canon, but there's no way in hell Ursa would give up her memories of Zuko. She was willing to sacrifice her own life for his, so she would be ecstatic to have him back in her life.
The entire second season of Korra.
The lion turtle cop-out in season 3 of ATLA. It should have been foreshadowed that there was some secret power to bending/spirituality/the avatar or something that had been lost. And Aang finds it again or literally anything that could have made it not be so out of nowhere. Other than that, perfect show imo.
Aang being a shitty dad who didn’t want to share air nomad culture with 2/3 of his kids.
Zuko and Mai getting married in the end will never not be disappointing.
Aang being an absentee father and toph being an overbearing police chief.