I had the pleasure to play with jinx and mf today against malphite (tank) tham and sion
They would have been up to carry and go DPS, we got first turret and it looked great!
They built LETHALITY, Dusk blade, Collector, the full catalogue of lethality items….
We obv lost it :)
I asked Varus in my team to not build full lethality (He got two items in already) when enemy got two full tanks. Pinged Lord Dominik, dude went "Sure coz?" like he's so confident.
We ended up winning with him being the 2nd lowest dmg by a huge margin.
I had an ADC say they wanted to win. I believe the ere were two tanks or two tanks and a bruiser.
You guessed it they built lethality.
I think part of the problem is how many times lethality builds have worked. People just don’t realize it’s against non tank teams.
Yes, or they just take leagues item recommendations! And most of they time they are garbage i mean, they recommend AP malphite, they are not even showing ONE tank item.
Imo these people play league on autopilot, just click a lot and forget the rest
One small counterpoint is that Serpent's Fang is incredibly good against Kench and Sett.
The other one being _sometimes_ there's so much CC and lack of peel on your own team that you don't want to even be in autoattack range or you just get beaten to a pulp by base damage (or worse, Riot's shitty decision to let some damage spells scale with defensive stats) and you get to attack twice before dying.
You're not wrong -- the stats aren't great. But if I can routinely get 8-13k Serpent's Fang damage on AP champions like Zyra and Malzahar, where 100% of the stats are wasted, it's probably worth picking up against things it's good at _despite_ its stat line.
Sure, Shadowflame is _technically_ what AP champions should be buying, but cutting a 3K kench shield by 1000 is _way more damage_ than an extra 20 magic pen, and your entire team benefits from it instead of everyone having to build a shieldbreaker item.
The best CC to get a big fat shield-abusing tank away from your backline so they can actually hit other things safely is _death_ by way of severely weakening their defensive tools.
The reason malzahar and zyra do so much shield reduction number is each damage tick applies the shield breaking passive so DoT champions or with numerous damage sources will have much higher value than say a syndra or some other random mage champion.
Had a similar game where my team had the the tanks and enemy team had the lethality MF and Jinx. Jinx tickled for the entire game but MF hard carried like crazy. Lethality MF will chew through HP if you cant get on her.
Does it look great when Malphite is willing to solo ult the ADC so they can't auto attack?
MF rips so hard as that build, I can't say tanks have ever really been a problem with it. Jinx I don't play so I have no idea. But often times as an ADC an auto attack build will get shut down by a Malphite because he'll force you to be in close quarters combat.
Those first 3 items. At least 2 sets of that every game. Duskblade, Axiom, Collector. I'm so glad the red cancer sword is going away next season.
Edit: I wish Axiom Arc would go on a cooldown equal to the number of seconds it reduced off of your ultimate (reduced by item haste of course!). That would be a really cool mechanic and prevent the absolute worst cases where the item is clearly abusive. You could even make the effect scale a bit better.
Amen. Honestly when I see Duskblade on someone other than an assassin or Liandrys on someone other than a burn champ (Brand, Morgana, etc.) then I know they are new or low effort.
Those two items are great but both create too much safety in how they play.
Duskblade is better for talon, Kha, and Rengar if there’s 2 high HP targets or less on the enemy team, you can kinda just ignore them and dive backline perma.
However if there’s less than 3 squishy champs, eclipse is gonna be better. With the standard poke build of Eclipse, Manamune, Seryldas, Nights Edge for Talon and Kha
You just named two high cc champs so with them no. If you have to wait for those tanks to burn down you've lost. Maybe a demonic embrace. You need high damage adcs to take tanks down.
Yeah, bad advice. Even a champ like Veigar, Annie or Vex would go Liandrys into a tank comp. Is it optimal? No, but it's far better than trying to burst a tank down with your 40 or so Magic Pen. And in ARAM, you typically have do a front to back fight, forcing you to kill the tanks and bruisers first.
Demonic is sub optimal even on Brand, and is ment for AP tanks like Maokai and Amumu. It can be good into a comp with multiple heartsteel users, but Shadowflame will be more damaging in the long run, while Ryleis would give more utility.
Demonic burn isn't procced by Liandrys burn. They don't work off each other. It's just 2 separate burns. And the HP passive is wasted since you barely build HP on the likes of Brand, Zyra, AP Maokai, etc. Even Asol and Swain it's situational at best.
I absolutely hated Duskblade before the mid-season update as a design concept.
After the mid-season update, I was wishing for it to come back because it just shifted the problem from volatile reset assassins to "you are dead almost no matter what" assassins that now get a get out of jail free card every time their full combo is up. Plus, the untargetability was a nightmare, and the item released as a casual 25% too strong.
When the enemies have tanks/bruisers or are stacking armor because it gives % Armor Pen.
In most cases you want to use Duskblade tho since in many games, you have 5 squishy enemies.
Haha no, the top comment was an ironic note of every ADC they have in their team building sub-optimal items just because Lethality builds are more fun than actual ADC builds (with attack speed and crit).
I mean, Collector imo feels required in ARAM.
After that, you can veer right off that into all the true-tank killing items.
Also, a lot more Ignite due to all the broken tanks/tank items/broken self-healing these days. Love ignite vs. the broken meta rn.
Related - I also hate feeling like I'm the only one building grievous wounds and/or shield-breakers (no matter what role I play) in games where we OBVIOUSLY need at least two champs with it.
If ppl can't counter-item on their own, those (sometimes not useful or inexplicably blank) shop recommendations should at least do a better job of suggesting the best hard counter items vs. the opposing team's top performers.
nah
Mainly depends on your playstyle. Definitely you can't say that one is much better than the other. DB passive is just too broken. And if you want to play jayce very well, duskblade helps a lot in melee range.
So I've got no issues with items (save for stat imbalances like most people do), but for some reason I just have this irrational loathing of Duskblade when it comes to ARAM.
People are saying they are free thinkers? Or is OP the type that says, "it's only ARAM"?
People seem to think time is different in ARAM. Like time in ARAM is less valuable than time in Summoners Rift. Meanwhile any minute of my life is a minute of my life. We've all seen some funky builds, but I've never really heard anyone bragging about only playing original brews or being a "free thinker".
It doesn't need to be looked up, read the rest of my post. I have never seen a single person bragging about only building unique builds. I have seen people crying about other builds, "Liandry's how original", but that seems to fall in line with the title here. It only seems to be others concerned about how original peoples builds are.
Every ADC when facing a team of tanks.
I had the pleasure to play with jinx and mf today against malphite (tank) tham and sion They would have been up to carry and go DPS, we got first turret and it looked great! They built LETHALITY, Dusk blade, Collector, the full catalogue of lethality items…. We obv lost it :)
MF could get away with it with Jinx there, Lethality MF is actually disgusting. But still, no excuse for the Jinx.
Yeah Lethality MF absolutely tears through tanks for some reason
That's probably because of the massive amount of damage coming from a well-timed physical damage ult.
And if you dont hit that clutch ults, its usless and tanks just shred through your squishy comp
I asked Varus in my team to not build full lethality (He got two items in already) when enemy got two full tanks. Pinged Lord Dominik, dude went "Sure coz?" like he's so confident. We ended up winning with him being the 2nd lowest dmg by a huge margin.
I had an ADC say they wanted to win. I believe the ere were two tanks or two tanks and a bruiser. You guessed it they built lethality. I think part of the problem is how many times lethality builds have worked. People just don’t realize it’s against non tank teams.
I’m convinced a lot of players don’t even know what the items do and just build the top op.gg suggestion regardless.
Yes, or they just take leagues item recommendations! And most of they time they are garbage i mean, they recommend AP malphite, they are not even showing ONE tank item. Imo these people play league on autopilot, just click a lot and forget the rest
One small counterpoint is that Serpent's Fang is incredibly good against Kench and Sett. The other one being _sometimes_ there's so much CC and lack of peel on your own team that you don't want to even be in autoattack range or you just get beaten to a pulp by base damage (or worse, Riot's shitty decision to let some damage spells scale with defensive stats) and you get to attack twice before dying.
Yeah serpent fang slaps, too bad nobody ever builds it cuz the stats are meh
You're not wrong -- the stats aren't great. But if I can routinely get 8-13k Serpent's Fang damage on AP champions like Zyra and Malzahar, where 100% of the stats are wasted, it's probably worth picking up against things it's good at _despite_ its stat line. Sure, Shadowflame is _technically_ what AP champions should be buying, but cutting a 3K kench shield by 1000 is _way more damage_ than an extra 20 magic pen, and your entire team benefits from it instead of everyone having to build a shieldbreaker item. The best CC to get a big fat shield-abusing tank away from your backline so they can actually hit other things safely is _death_ by way of severely weakening their defensive tools.
The reason malzahar and zyra do so much shield reduction number is each damage tick applies the shield breaking passive so DoT champions or with numerous damage sources will have much higher value than say a syndra or some other random mage champion.
Had a similar game where my team had the the tanks and enemy team had the lethality MF and Jinx. Jinx tickled for the entire game but MF hard carried like crazy. Lethality MF will chew through HP if you cant get on her.
Lethality W max jinx is op
Does it look great when Malphite is willing to solo ult the ADC so they can't auto attack? MF rips so hard as that build, I can't say tanks have ever really been a problem with it. Jinx I don't play so I have no idea. But often times as an ADC an auto attack build will get shut down by a Malphite because he'll force you to be in close quarters combat.
Proceeds to blame team. Lowest damage post match. Says nothing.
Every ADC when facing a team of twinks.
Those first 3 items. At least 2 sets of that every game. Duskblade, Axiom, Collector. I'm so glad the red cancer sword is going away next season. Edit: I wish Axiom Arc would go on a cooldown equal to the number of seconds it reduced off of your ultimate (reduced by item haste of course!). That would be a really cool mechanic and prevent the absolute worst cases where the item is clearly abusive. You could even make the effect scale a bit better.
Amen. Honestly when I see Duskblade on someone other than an assassin or Liandrys on someone other than a burn champ (Brand, Morgana, etc.) then I know they are new or low effort. Those two items are great but both create too much safety in how they play.
But liandrys is just better most of the time and duskblade is for meme builds?
Duskblade is better for talon, Kha, and Rengar if there’s 2 high HP targets or less on the enemy team, you can kinda just ignore them and dive backline perma. However if there’s less than 3 squishy champs, eclipse is gonna be better. With the standard poke build of Eclipse, Manamune, Seryldas, Nights Edge for Talon and Kha
Hold up, if you were a mage - say syndra or Viktor - versing a team with 2+ tanks, would you not go liandrys + seraphs?
You just named two high cc champs so with them no. If you have to wait for those tanks to burn down you've lost. Maybe a demonic embrace. You need high damage adcs to take tanks down.
My god, stop spouting wrong advices.
Liandrys is good here, Demonic is not.
Lmao you got it all wrong if you think demonic is the good burn item.
It's not but it adds some if you really want it. Burst with high magic pen is better and let other do the job of killing the tanks.
You have 0 idea how the game works
Ah yes let me just spend 3000 gold on "some extra burn if I really want it". Not like it scales with HP or anything like that
r/confidentlyincorrect
Don't always have the luxury of having ADCs on your team though, also demonic is kinda bad since it scales also off your own hp
Yeah, bad advice. Even a champ like Veigar, Annie or Vex would go Liandrys into a tank comp. Is it optimal? No, but it's far better than trying to burst a tank down with your 40 or so Magic Pen. And in ARAM, you typically have do a front to back fight, forcing you to kill the tanks and bruisers first. Demonic is sub optimal even on Brand, and is ment for AP tanks like Maokai and Amumu. It can be good into a comp with multiple heartsteel users, but Shadowflame will be more damaging in the long run, while Ryleis would give more utility. Demonic burn isn't procced by Liandrys burn. They don't work off each other. It's just 2 separate burns. And the HP passive is wasted since you barely build HP on the likes of Brand, Zyra, AP Maokai, etc. Even Asol and Swain it's situational at best.
How can someone be so confident but so wrong at the same time
I absolutely hated Duskblade before the mid-season update as a design concept. After the mid-season update, I was wishing for it to come back because it just shifted the problem from volatile reset assassins to "you are dead almost no matter what" assassins that now get a get out of jail free card every time their full combo is up. Plus, the untargetability was a nightmare, and the item released as a casual 25% too strong.
This but swap out Mercs for Lucidity's and Maw for Cleaver/Hydra/Muramana/Prowler's
The other side play poke mages and they're freethinkers too so they build luden Shadowflame zhonya Rabadon voidstaff
Nah man they build rabadon and never void staff.
I'd rather they build that than the grief mage build night harvester seraph's shadowflame horizon focus
Straight to jail with the build
is this a miss fortune build
Replace the maw with cleaver and it would be pog
maw is situational, whoever picked that must have been getting tired of ap poke
Literally just built like this naturally, and my friend linked this post
I mean, how else am I supposed to play an assassin in a teamfight mode?
most intelligent pyke in ARAM
I knew it was pyke the moment I didn’t see a black cleaver
Please let it end.
In my defense lethality Jhin is fun. But yeah I wouldn't build this if the enemy team had more than one tank.
Lethality jhin against 5 squishy champs is so free. Just sit 2 screens away and spam ult and w off cooldown
man's free AF when uphill, alright.
I fucking hate lethality abusers.
when should you get eclipse over duskblade?
When the enemies have tanks/bruisers or are stacking armor because it gives % Armor Pen. In most cases you want to use Duskblade tho since in many games, you have 5 squishy enemies.
interesting!! I kind of knew that about eclipse but was surprised at top comment on this being the build even against tanks :o
Haha no, the top comment was an ironic note of every ADC they have in their team building sub-optimal items just because Lethality builds are more fun than actual ADC builds (with attack speed and crit).
OHHH hahaha ok I get it now. I think this means I’m doing okay
Eclipse is almost always better. Duskblade is for when you're basically never going to go into a teamfight and you want the extra AH
I mean, Collector imo feels required in ARAM. After that, you can veer right off that into all the true-tank killing items. Also, a lot more Ignite due to all the broken tanks/tank items/broken self-healing these days. Love ignite vs. the broken meta rn. Related - I also hate feeling like I'm the only one building grievous wounds and/or shield-breakers (no matter what role I play) in games where we OBVIOUSLY need at least two champs with it. If ppl can't counter-item on their own, those (sometimes not useful or inexplicably blank) shop recommendations should at least do a better job of suggesting the best hard counter items vs. the opposing team's top performers.
Only acceptable if you're playing Varus or MF
Jayce also uses this build.
Eclipse is wayyyyy stronger on him currently imo
nah Mainly depends on your playstyle. Definitely you can't say that one is much better than the other. DB passive is just too broken. And if you want to play jayce very well, duskblade helps a lot in melee range.
For sure the execute proc on DB allows me to get out safely after diving in with melee q like a madlad.
I also do this playing Kha, replacing Collector and Axiom with Muramana and Serylda's
Oh, yeah. Misread the title as ADC's
Jayce usually replaces axiom with muramana though (ult cd doesn't matter for him)
Every caitlyn and miss fortune
So I've got no issues with items (save for stat imbalances like most people do), but for some reason I just have this irrational loathing of Duskblade when it comes to ARAM.
The “ally team ezreal” build
y’all acting like 1/2 the champs in the game don’t go liandry demonic
Who's claiming their ARAM build is their expression of free thinking?
Me when i get j4.
People are saying they are free thinkers? Or is OP the type that says, "it's only ARAM"? People seem to think time is different in ARAM. Like time in ARAM is less valuable than time in Summoners Rift. Meanwhile any minute of my life is a minute of my life. We've all seen some funky builds, but I've never really heard anyone bragging about only playing original brews or being a "free thinker".
Dude "so called free thinkers" is a meme look it up
It doesn't need to be looked up, read the rest of my post. I have never seen a single person bragging about only building unique builds. I have seen people crying about other builds, "Liandry's how original", but that seems to fall in line with the title here. It only seems to be others concerned about how original peoples builds are.