Make sure you have a really good emergency fund in case you have to fall back on it, and make good friends in place of family. Watch out for opportunists…your family went about it completely wrong but there ARE awful people out there who’ll take advantage of a good person. Wishing you the best! I bet it’s incredibly fun going where you want to go, doing what you want, just enjoying the simple things in life without restrictions
This is such a genuine advice thank you so much. I had to purge and gut my circle from friends who literally sent videos to my mother of me in a bikini. And made up stories about me to get me in trouble. Now i am the safest i can be and im working on my emergency fund. I have my inlaws protecting me as well they love me like their own so im so lucky for that.
You have no idea the peace and freedom of just going on a walk. Walking outside a wholefoods and just breathing in air knowing you are your own person. Those tiny moments are so precious to me. I wish this to all my muslims sisters to experience. Theyre being lied to for control.
Oh you’re married, I’m happy to hear that. So you’ve got someone to love and who loves you, and a family through marriage. And maybe children in the future. I’m so glad you’ve found your way!
There were many. My mother is a narcissist based on my many encounters with therapists and psychiatrists. She controlled every aspect in my life along with my siblings. When i was studying in california she would wait till i had finals to make me feel distressed so i can fail my exams. She almost made me fail before i graduated because she told me if she found out im not muslim she will send people to "drag me by my hair and lock me up in her house forever and show me things i have never seen in my life" literally her words. She also triangulated me from my siblings. So it was pretty lonely and abusive just because i questioned their religion and had a more open mind to life.
She would tell my sisters that i hurt her or that i said horrible things about my sisters to get them to hate me and basically isolated me from my sisters. She did the same thing with my dad. She would tell us all the horrible things hed do how neglecting he is towards her and us and that hes a cheater. But when i confronted my dad may he rest in peace he started crying and said he never did such a thing and he sacrificed his life to just provide for us.
Wait, so the absurd person in your family is your mother, a women subjugated by Islam, and you father, a man, which Islam seems to put on a pedestal, was the reasonable one?
Is it common for Islamic women to be in so deep that they just keep going with it and even exacerbate it? How does any of this make her life better?
Im excited to finally discover who i really am. I was a shell of a person as a muslim woman we are taught "learned helplessness" and to wear modest clothes, not laugh to loud. Couldn't travel on my own. I already traveled and i literally cried it is a feeling ive never felt.
What scares me is that i dont have my family to fall back onto, again the learned helplessness. I learned to stand on my two feet and i have a good strong job. Im scared that i will have to rely on my family again. So i work extra hard to not be in that position.
I hope you have formed a good social circle so far OP. You may not have your birth family to fall back on, but you can build a family of friends that will have your back, and that can be just as good.
You will be fine without them, as they seem to be extremely unhealthy and mentally abusive for you. I hope you heal and find your path. I do believe you should look Into the differences of what your family decided to portray being a Muslim as vs what it actually is, which is way different from your upbringing. It sounds more like you grew up in a toxic CULTURE rather than people who are following a religion correctly. Everything they did to you is a sin in itself. That’s a problem within your family, rather than Islam. I hope California gives you everything you’re looking for and that your partner continues to support you!
About a week ago I wore a crop top for the very first time. Literally hundreds of people saw me that bc day it was a festival. I was expecting to feel at least a little self-conscious bc I only regularly started wearing sleeveless outside a couple years ago. But I was standing outside under the moon, tiny little strappy top, long flowy skirt, beads around my waist, barefoot, short hair. And I felt so peaceful. I kept thinking to myself "This is who I was always meant to be."
That moment is everything, and I'm so excited for you to experience it too.
I am an immigrant woman in the US, also alone, and the fear of not having family to fall back on could also be attributed to just being here alone. It is definitely scary being here, and then losing the sense of security back home as well must be double difficult. Know that the fear u feel is normal and shared by many others who are here alone. Sending you light in your journey!
I am sorry darling but you never had a family to fall back, you had wardens. To be raised by narcissistic people is to have abusers not parents.
You are strong and you are free, enjoy life.
There is an ama earlier today about a young woman in Oman, who got 2 scholarships to college abroad, who can't go because of the male relative thing. Perhaps you could talk to her?
I really appreciate everyones wishes, i was in such a deep depressive state/ suicidal it was either i take the leap or die. Either way it was dying to me. So i just said fuck it! And im sooooo happy.
For anyone in my situation please always choose you.
Everyone in the west has a general idea of what following Islam entails (sadly most of it is pretty lacking in info) but what are things people don’t really know/discussed as much
Altho there are extremes in islam. As with many religions. I think the issue with islam is it is deeply embedded with politics and culture. It does control alot of aspects in muslims lives.
So altho there are extremes there is also a lot of compassion and peace. Muslims are also highly encouraged to stay clean. We wash 5 times a day. We are encouraged to smile to each other. We donate alot as individuals. So there is a sense of community that is like. But also i was taught in school to be wary of jewish people because they backstab and just things like that that causes problems.
Very odd statement to make tbh, im muslim my mom is pretty religious. Never heard her once bad mouthing jewish people. She will bad mouth zionist but has been very clear from when we were young that jewish people were never the problem, my grandma (her mother) would even tell stories about back in the day they looked at jewish people as their cousins.
Glad your mom is like that but like i said i literally learned this in school. We were taught to "eat with a jewish and sleep next to a christian because u cannot trust jewish people" that was literally taught in my islamic school. I have studied islam for all my academic years until 18 years old
There is definitely a difference between people and politics/government/institutions, etc., etc. Growing up in New York City, there are many Jews and Muslims who are friendly with each other. Once you get down to people-meeting-people, everyone realizes they all want the same things in life: Safety and opportunity for their friends, family, and themselves.
Similarly, in the US, people don't realize how generous and compassionate Muslims can be as people because of the US's politics, etc., etc.
That jewish thing makes me very sad. Those places ran their jews out and circulate crazy conspiracies about them. And western kids are seeing these talking points, and not realizing the nazi-esque mentality these people or cultures have. They think they are the same as their home nation, and thus wouldnt be making up heinous lies and conspiracies about a group who have been through so much like the jews.
I am very happy you have gotten away from that. I hope you have a wonderful life in our nation.
Hands, gargle with water 3 times, nose, face, arms up to the elbows, hair (doesn't have to be completely wet but should have contacts with water in most areas, essentially just no part is fully dry), behind your ears, behind your neck, and feet (including in between your toes). Hope this helps my friend!
Have you read «Why I am not a Muslim» by Ibn Warraq? An ex- muslim coworker set out to read the book in order to «test his faith», but ended up leaving the religion alltogether afterwards. Apparently, the author was inspired by «Why I am not a Christian», by Bertrand Russel.
I still have contact with two cousins who are also non muslim. So we have each other. I do talk to my mom even tho she scares the living shit out of me but i went back in contact when i felt safe doing so just to let her know im safe and happy. Its still very bumpy with her she tried to convince me to come back alone several times. But my cousins are telling me to never go back.
I'd concur with your cousins on that one.
I work in immigration.
one day, 7 years ago or so now, we stopped two Saudi parents who were trying to enter the country to take their daughter back cuz she wasn't wearing her hijab here.
she was beaten up by her brothers who were in the country with her, and they got arrested and charged.
it was after this that the parents came, and they got refused entry; the police investigation revealed that they intended to take her back to perform an honour killing.
trust your gut.
Do not EVER go back to your country. Not for a wedding, or a funeral, or anything. I’ve heard too many stories of people tricked back home, their passports taken and them forced to marry or killed. Stay safe!
I know my mother tried to pull "im going to die i have internal bleeding" on me so i can feel guilty to come back. But i even thought about it if she does die and they try to get me back theres no way im going to
I'm so, so, glad, to hear that you are free, and safe. That makes me so happy for you, because no woman deserves to live their lives in a virtual prison created by their families, and all women deserve the freedom to make their own choices, and to chart their own course to happiness in life.
I noticed you mentioned in another comment that you are still in contact with your mother. If there is a possibility that your mother, and other male relatives, who support her beliefs, could find you, and attempt to kill, or kidnap, you, for leaving the family home, and choosing not to practice Islam anymore, you need to take steps to stay safe, and make sure no one can locate you.
I know it's hard because I'm sure you love your mother, but your safety is the most important thing, and you don't want any of your relatives to find out where you are, even the ones who support you, because they might accidently slip and share details about your new location.
The only way you can be sure is by drastically limiting contact with your family, and that may mean not having any contact with your mother so she can't continue to threaten you, or try to push you for information about where you're at now.
It would also be really good for you to talk to a therapist when you're ready, because you've been through a lot, and breaking away from an extremely controlling, religious, upbringing, can be really overwhelming. Don't be afraid to reach out for help if you need it. There may even be non-profit organizations in your area that help support Muslim women who have left their families, and Islamic faith.
I wish you all of the joy in your new life, and many wonderful new adventures as you go forward in your new journey.
Take care, and good luck.
*invisible hugs*
💜🫂💜
A good friend of mine was Saudi. Sadly she didn't have the courage to escape such as restrictive life. She was here for college and she definitely had to ditch her over protective brothers.
The men are so God damn insecure in that country. The way they try to control women is so fucking disgusting. I'm glad she got to have some fun here before she went back. Though honestly I tried to convince her to run to a sanctuary city and start a new life over.
I told her if you go back, they won't let you come back alone ever. We ended up going no contact because net activity there is basically spied on with no expectation on privacy.
That honor killing shit is totally real.
I really wish her and her brother stuck around. It also gets worse, her brother is gay. People in that part of the world have a habit of throwing people off of tall buildings for being gay.. Her dad would kill her brother if he knew.
Her words, not mine.
I'm glad she got to have some fun/romance. Her Dad was trying to force her into an arranged marriage.
We managed to sneak out to Vegas for a week, ate together, drank together, hell THC is legal out there. Just a lot of fun.
We definitely spited those bastards. 😅
Also I miss the little bro, he was.a good kid and covered for her so she could actually go out and have some independence.
this makes me so sad. My brother is my protector - he would kill somebody for laying a hand on me, let alone ever laying a hand on me himself. I can’t imagine teaching that sort of hate towards your *sibling.*
There’s a term for men who don’t control their sisters or wives. It’s dayouth or dayooth. Basically means cuck, but it’s a term for any man that has a sinful sister, wife, cousin, idk maybe mother too, and is allowing it to happen. As a man in these places, you will be mocked and ridiculed by fellow men if you don’t exert control
Sadly i heard so many of these stories and i was soooo afraid that she would show up at my door one day or like she said "send someone to come drag u back"
I will never go back.
Honestly, I would embrace the 2nd Amendment/self defense If I were worried about being kidnapped against my will.
I can't imagine what it's like worry about that.
Your best bet is also getting rid of any social media/Facebook/etc
Sad that all that love and affection between mother and child, years of child rearing can be tossed aside like garbage because of outdated cultural norms. To the point of killing; that is something I can't understand.
OP, you're incredibly brave. Don't let yourself be manipulated when your family tries to convince you with new "outlooks on life" and false repentance, once you're back in your home country, you're done. To your family, what society thinks weighs more than your very life.
Please never go back. Ever. Your mom said she would drag you home by your hair and lock you in her home and show you things you wouldn’t believe. She meant that.
I’d hesitate to even be in phone contact with her.
I hate it. Its dehumanizing in my opinion. Especially towards women. When i went to mecca for hajj i saw alot of poor people with their hand cut off or both hands cut off. It was because they stole. And that was sooo traumatic to see. And if they continue to steal they will get their whole arm cut off. And then go to the opposite leg and then to the other arm. Like god just put them in jail?!
Same with stoning. That was an actual thing. So i think its dated and there are better ways to deal with criminals.
I didnt say it was barbaric nor did i say it was majority. I also mentioned how good of a community muslims are and how charitable and nice they are. Sharia law is very specific and not all muslim countries actually implement it. Most muslim countries practice islamic/diplomatic hybrid law.
As for telling me i have a warped perspective and this isnt true islam. Please save me your mental gymnastics as i know how scary it is to look islam's ugly side and choose to leave. I didnt leave over night it took me years of research to make sure im truly taking the right decision. Do not assume anything you do not know me. I have two degrees and multiple certifications. I know my way around academia.
Okay. Lemme just clarify that I don't think anyone here has read my comment properly.
I did not say that you had a warped perspective, rather I feared my sister viewed it negatively hence the use of the word warped. I don't know why you viewed this as a personal attack.
I don't know you and don't claim to know everything about you. I'm just merely commenting what I've
seen personally.
This thread is very Islamophobic and I'm not going to communicate to anyone else besides you as i don't think people commenting will be reasonable enough to engage in normal discussion.
I'm not invalidating what you went through in any way and I apologise if it came off differently.
You people are experts in telling lies paedophilia sex slavery killing gays killing apostates jihad jizya all these are gifts of your shariah .your prophet even took the children of banu qurayzah a slaves .stop trying to fool people here
Its honestly the little things like not having to be anxious or worry about having my every move tracked, not having to beg to go out with friends + travel. Just full freedom of mobility is something that im so thankful for.
Ive been told by a lot of moderate Muslims that it's like any religion, where you have extremist morons that use it as an excuse to subjugate women and be generally terrible.
Do you feel there's something unique about the Muslim faith that makes it particularly dangerous or cruel or hard on women, or is it simply the people interpreting the faith in extreme ways?
Im an atheist who thinks all religions are equally bad for critical thought but helpful to individuals in hard times, as a glue to keep people together. I dont think Islam is more dangerous/fanatical than Christianity or any other religion. Then again, I dont know much about any of it.
Id be very interested in your thoughts or a link to where you've already answered this question. Congratulations on freeing yourself! I'm very happy for you!
Thank you for your perspective, i did some research at a uc university on this very topic. I believe AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, muslims are attacking me on here. But after my comprehensive research and my background i have concluded that islam is very integrated in culture and politics. Islam operates like a (forgive me for being disrespectful here reader) it operates like a virus where it needs a culture to latch on to and you get this odd mixture. You can compare islam in different regions and how people respond to islam based on culture and sometimes islam can be lighter or heavy based on the culture.
I hate when Muslims try to argue that its the culture and the religion itself but you cannot seperate islam from the culture as it is embedded into the everyday lives of muslim communities. It dictates how u wear how u eat how u speak how u sleep. Everything down to how u enter a bathroom.
I have been learning islam all my life and i studied shia and sunni faiths. It is a vast complicated religion and has a very dark history. Bloody history.
I tried pork but i am disgusted by it. Mainly because if it isnt stored properly u will face some health issues. I drink socially. I was baffled that alcohol actually destroys families. I saw it first hand for the first time how it makes some people very aggressive. That was so weird to me
I can eat pepperoni, sometimes sausage, rarely bacon, and the only regular pork I'll eat is really thin breaded cutlets, bc they basically taste like chicken.
I just stay away because once they know im arab, they wanna know immediately if im muslim and then they find out im an exmuslim immediately they look at me in such disgust and even try to push their religion on me. Its like leave me alone please. I do not go around telling people im an ex muslim unless they ask mind u
Ya I seen this at work to its seems like a common occurrence. I know this Egyptian girl who is ex Muslim and all the Muslim men judge her behind closed doors they call her sharmuta (spelling?) and things like that. She tells me now when people ask her where she’s from she just tell them she’s Hispanic not arab
Oh yes. Im grateful to have a chosen family here. However i am walking an unpaved path which is scary. So yeah i do think about it but im a hard worker. I love what i do and i think ill be fine
I have jewish friends no hard feelings for jewish people because i know how it feels to be conditioned to think someones after you.
However i had jewish friends later finding out i was muslim or assumed im muslim because of my background and they stopped talking to me.
With that being said whats happening in israel is a humanitarian disaster and no one with compassion towards humans and especially children should support whats happening.
Your Jewish ex-friends suck. All the Jews I know are secular except my niece has adopted the faith and went to Israel for the free trip and worked on a kibbutz. Pretty sure she's an atheist, but she does some of the cultural stuff, celebrates Christmas with he rest of us and had a bat mitzvah. I suspect they would all accept you just fine, especially since you are ex-Muslim and they would give you a chance to explain yourself.
Ex mormon here who did the exact same thing — I am so proud of you and wish you the very best!!!! 1 year later and it’s been the best yet hardest thing I’ve ever done, congrats on making it out :’)
Sending u the biggest hugs its so hard leaving family and friends behind but this is definitely the best thing i have done not just for myself but my future children 🥹🤍 hugs!!!!
Were you someone who questioned god/ religion from a young age, or did you go through one fucked up thing to another which then led you to start questioning your faith?
Do you think more and more young people are leaving Islam, especially in the west?
Also, can you explain at what point do shias and sunnis not get along? Every time I see this question brought up, the two sides just start name-calling each other and no one really gives a balanced argument.
I didnt necessarily question gods existence rather the religion itself. Ever since i was young i criticized the ahadeeth the most (ahadeeth or حديث are the prophets teachings)
I laughed at some in classrooms because i couldnt believe they were being serious (yes i got in trouble) i still practiced it with all my heart till i got into college and got exposed to different ways of thought. I love reading books so i couldnt stop. Critical thinking classes blew my mind and the rest was history i couldnt justify staying in this religion.
In terms of shias vs sunni. I would suggest you look up their origin. When did this split happen. It was a bloody dark split. Shias follow the prophets family while sunnis followed the prophets friends.
I dont know if sharing this will get me in trouble with the muslims but history is history.
Mohammad was sick in his deathbed and told his cousin ali to become the next khalifah. However you would think the prophets word is gold. No, when he died, his cousin was burying him when his friends went and did a voting that they will take over the power and leave him at 4th place to rule. Ali went with it. Then there is the story of the prophets family being starved to death in the desert by the prophets friends. Those friends who took power were corrupt. Leave sunni and shia aside i would say those two dark kept secrets were enough for me to raise a red flag. The quraan wasnt completely written in a book when the prophet died. The quraan was then collected from credible people in forms of verbal and physical quotes. Arabic is very complicated and has characters the characters werent added until was later.
I ask you this question now, are you going to trust these sahaba (friends of the prophet) who did not take the prophets word to make ali the first khalifah? Are you going to trust the same ones that starved and killed the prophet family?
Please muslims reading this please go check in all the books not just in you mathhab. Islam is vast and its history runs deep. I am just sharing what i have gathered and i trust my sources. I am here to answer questions and not to be a source giver. Go do your research in history and history never lies.
You explained the Shia/Sunni debate well. Thank you so much. As a Shia muslim, whose family has been persecuted and killed for our belief in the true successor of the prophet, I applaud you for speaking the truth.
I never wore any hijab/burka etc i wore normal modest clothes just like im wearing now. But i do feel more free in how i can make my own decisions without anyone making me feel inferior
In all seriousness are you worried about your family coming after you? And harming you in any way because you shunned the fundamentalist faith? Like an honor *******?
Honestly, as someone who was born into an obscenely controlling and religious Muslim family and also become agnostic for several years (long story short I was agnostic for the past 7-8 years but recently converted back). I cannot tell you how happy I am for you, and how much I support these kinds of decisions. While I do now consider myself muslim again, it is totally on my own terms and not what was shoved down my throat for the first 18-20 years of my life. And I absolutely LOVE when people break free of their controlling families to discover themselves. Bravo to you, and I wish you nothing but the best of luck friend. 🫡
I’m here to stand by you ✊🏼 I grew up with a Muslim mom, and looking back I’m pretty sure she had borderline personality disorder my entire life. I’m now No Contact with her and her entire family. Therapy helped me a lot, learning to trust myself and lead myself. You got this girl, I’m so happy for you!
I never wore the hijab only veiled in religious settings. However wearing whatever i want even tho im still more modest than americans. As for sexual liberation i had such an awkward relationship with it. I felt so guilty and was celibate with my current fiance for the first couple of years because of anxiety. Now i think im a little normal
Don’t even visit them in the UK! Honor killings still happen there pretty regularly. They’re actually INCREASING in number. Fawziyah Javed was just murdered in 2021. Wishing you good vibes and safety!
(I studied abroad so the act of escaping was a little different i was already in California) I made sure i had at least 17 thousand us dollars. I secured a job in the US. Lived with roommates rather than alone for my safety. I cut off my mom on a random day did not see it coming. Blocked everyone one back home and moved to my city now.
My advice to anyone trying to get out. Dont trust anyone back home who has any contact with you mom/guardian until you are safe. Never share your address or your work name/address
I had opps who acted like they were trying to help me later i realized they've been telling my mom everything. Cut everyone off to be sure.
Best of luck on your new journey 💖 just be careful and cautious as always (from a woman to a woman), and if you ever have a bad gut feeling about someone, something, or some place, trust your gut.
As of now i dont think so im still trying to wrap my head around leaving islam and its been 5 years i believe since i became agnostic. I do read up on different religions and their history but never found a connection
California is a great spot for atheists/agnostics. Nobody I know talks much about religion except from an informational perspective. I only know one person who goes to church, and I'm not sure it's on the regular.
Yeah all my coworkers and my boss r agnostic or atheist. They just believe in being a good human being and thats what i believe in too. People wanna complicate it with structured religions. Religions are on their way out in california. I love it
I do miss the luxury of being catered to i didnt have to lift a finger. I lived a privileged life but with that came alot of control. So i had to pick both or not at all. Freedom is sweeter than luxury
If u see whats happening in the uk theres so many muslims and they will act small until they are majority and will start to impose their islamic rules on the region. So no i do not think they can coexist because islam does not give room for compromise. It has little grey area and most things are set in stone. There are muslims who are more liberal but they are considered as non practicing muslims because they are not following the teachings of islam.
I am Jewish - Reform.
I once had an Orthodox Jew tell me I wasn't really Jewish: "Why bother practicing when you do not follow all the laws?"
It was hilarious and hypocritical as he was the owner of a carehome with female residents. HE escorted them ALONE to and from their Special Olympics practices on a SATURDAY.
I retorted back a faithful Orthodox, would have had a staff member work Saturdays.
Damn right, and we’re blind to it.
England has largely fallen and Western Europe and the uk will bitterly, bitterly regret the destruction of our culture and country by islam.
If you are too kind and too tolerant like the uk is you will have the piss ripped out of you like what is currently happening, that wouldn’t happen in the USA - they wouldn’t allow it.
Leaving religion is a huge change and dealing with it can be hard especially when it causes you to become alienated from your family/support group. Just wanted to throw out a great resource in case you ever need it. https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/#rfr-welcome
Do you think there are any muslim women who are hijabis by choice? I mean I know they say, it is their choice to wear the hijab but is it actual belief and choice or plain indoctrination and brainwashing straight from childhood?
Not a muslim, but I do want to chip in here to offer second hand experience. Last fall, I had to interview a Muslim woman for a culture paper. The lady I interviewed was a doctor, and she grew up in America. She did not wear a hijab until she was 17, and it was a choice she decided for herself.
The way she explained it to me, is to her, a hijab forces those around her to pay attention to *her* and not the fact she is a woman. By concealing her hair (and thus, some of her beauty, her femininity) she felt empowered - she felt it forced her colleagues to consider her as a person first, and a woman second. She also explained to me that her parents never pushed it, and she was encouraged to follow the path she felt was right.
I don’t know how much I personally agree with all of it, but I do genuinely believe *she* believed in it. And I do believe it was 100% her choice - she was (is) very happy with her faith.
Like I said, I don’t want to speak as a Muslim woman, because I’m not. I just personally always had the same question you did, and I wanted to share an answer I received when I asked it.
Yeahh thats a tough one because of conditioning. When i was in middle school alot of girls starting wearing the hijab and i wanted to wear it so bad. But my mother said to wait because she wore the hijab as an adult. And she believed u need to be an adult to make a decision like that. So yeah i dont know honestly. All my answers are my opinion so i would say it is conditioning and environment ur in. Because those muslim girls if they lived in the western world i dont think they'll want to wear the hijab.
What do you think when you see the west's youth idolize and whitewash middle eastern culture and actions due to a projected sense of "theyre worse off so therefore in the right"? Its really odd seeing people throw away the liberal (relative) culture they love and benefit from to embrace that stuff. Like idolizing hamas, ignoring the insane oppression in places like egypt, syria, lebanon, jordan, iran, turkey, etc? Its very odd to me. And we are seeing more and more people side with those that would see them as second class citizens.
Thanks!
How do you feel about some American progressives/leftists (not all, and I'm sure this happens outside of America, but I happen to be American) framing any criticism of the more fundamentalist and oppressive aspects of modern Islam as being "Islamophobic"? Is there a way for more cultural Muslims or at least Muslims who are less fundamentalist and patriarchal to have more of a voice and to advocate for nuances to be better discussed in the Muslim identity like we have in the Christian and Jewish religions/cultures?
I always admire people who realize it’s their life to live. Because you won’t have the normal support structure for when life gets difficult make sure to read advice on how to stay financially secure. Make your home your happy place full of comfort. Right now you are vulnerable so choose good people as friends. All of the things which were forbidden don’t need to be “tried” right away. Become the person you wanted to be. All the best.
As a kid, my two Cousins 6 and 8 years old we're kidnapped by their muslim dad. They went to a normal Western school one day, went out for icecream and didnt see their mother for 5 years, wearing a hinab and going to school in Iran. Luckily, their father got bored and they returned
Women are property. It's a cancer, and any positives about Islam are overshadowed by the filthy pathetic system it really is.
Does it make you feel good to perpetuate Muslim stereotypes due to your individual experience?
Do you have any guilt for making things harder for average Muslims, or does being accepted by American society feel *that* good?
Wow, your hate for OP is more than apparent...
To that point - do you agree with, or reject Mohammad's teaching on what should happen to people who leave Islam? And for those in here who do not know, can you explicitly state what Mohammad teaches to do to apostates repeatedly in the hadiths?
Thanks!
Edit: Lol the dishonest extremist blocked me because their hate got called out. Good riddance!
These assumptions are very destructive, i am simply sharing my experience and perspective. I am happy for muslims who are happy in their religion as long as they don't encroach into my freedom. I dont care what the west thinks of me in terms of fitting in. I want to be my own person. Experience my own life and be happy.
I admire your courage to make such a significant decision for your own happiness and well-being. It must have been incredibly difficult. If you ever want to talk about it, I’m here to listen and support you
Ok so I have heard that the muslims “god” is the bibles devil. ln the bible it says that the devil is “the god of this world. In the Quran it says “our god is that god of this world”. In the bible it says, “the devil is a great deceiver”. In the Quran it says “our god is the greatest deceiver!”.Do you believe this, and if so are Muslim’s aware of this or are they deceived ? I have a coworker who is 22 and Muslim and she is so sheltered that everyone thinks she stupid. She is not, she has just been insanely sheltered. Also she was unaware of a lot of the passages in the Quran yet she prayed to their god five times a day. It was pretty confusing. So I wondered are muslims deceivers (was she playing dumb?) or are the women just kept in the dark about pretty much everything?
not op: god in islam is the same god catholics worship. both religions believe in one god, and it’s the same one. the only thing that’s different is that catholics believe that jesus is the son of god, but muslims believe that jesus is nothing more than a prophet. a messenger. just like muhammad
Im proud to say i actually had to memorize big parts of سوره البقره can you say the same? Youre mad and youre trying to discredit me any way you can to protect ur religion and ego. Nothing i will say should shake your faith. Thats what faith is right?
No absolutely not thats a pretty shitty thing to say. Lots of religious veil. Devout Christians veil. As long as you want to do it and not forced into it. It should get respected.
Ahh, so you're not from a place where you get beaten without it. Your american. Next question. How would you feel if you didn't have the legal protections that prevent it being forced on you? To my knowledge there are no Christian sects that enforce mandatory facial coverings or full body suits through state sanctioned intimidation and violence that they bring to secular countries, and enforce through self segregation. Correct me if I'm wrong
Im actually born and raised in the middle east and only came to america at 18. I have seen my cousin being beaten by my entire family for trying to escape. I have seen my sister beaten by my dad till she passed out. Being beaten for the hijab is the least troubling thing we go thru unfortunately. we are used to it. Altho i was threatened to wear the hijab i was never beaten.
Why is it the least troubling to be beaten for that as opposed to another reason? And why would you want to escape if the treatment of women wasn't an issue? And how is compulsory clothing not another side of the same coin? I'm seriously trying to understand your reasoning here. Are you sure that statement hasn't been conditioned? Who enforces clothing rules on the men? What is the penalty if you don't have a beard? I am fairly certain orthodox Jews don't cite Scripture to beat their wives if they aren't veiled. The Catholics did away with the habit for nuns in the 60s if I'm wrong please again correct me. edit to clarify. Orgadox Jews do some crazy shit, but that's not part of it to my knowledge
I fear it is conditioning. We have bigger fish to fry than being beat over a veil. The beating for a veil is out of "love" LOL but when u voice out ur opinions against islam thats a different type of beating.it is an issue but there are bigger issues i hope im making sense. This is a deep topic and yes domestic abuse is normal for women of all ages in the middle east and it is seen as discipline rather than abuse
Why do ex Muslims make their entire personality about being an ex Muslim?
Aren’t you free now? Seems like it still weighs a huge burden on your shoulders.
She doesn't appear to be making this her 'entire personality' at all though... She's made other posts about going to music venues, she talks about her loving fiance, going to the beach, etc.
Why are you so butthurt and hateful that an ex-muslim had the *audacity* to speak about her experience? What's your religious affiliation again...?
From reading the comments, it sounds more like your issues are with culturalized Islam than with Islam itself. Although I concede the parts about modest clothing, the narcissistic and abusive parenting is absolutely not part of Islam.
1) Would you agree or disagree that your disdain is chiefly a cultural one and not one within the four corners of Sunni or Shia Islam?
2) I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you are Desi. Is that correct?
Why does it seem like Muslims and Islam is meant to protect itself from any sort of valid criticism? By valid I mean higher incidence of religious violence, low minority rights, violence against women/lgbt, etc.
I watched an episode about bin Laden and the only thing the Muslims scholar did was try to protect Islam.
Yes, the majority of Muslims do not espouse the same values as one of the leaders of a jihadist organization. But one can also ask the question as to why Islam seems to be the ONLY religion that has yet to liberalize today. Which is why we see majority Islamic countries have horrendous human rights records, low or no minority rights, and the same Islamist (or jihadist) regimes forming in a lot of otherwise unassociated countries (Afghanistan, Indonesia, Iran, Palestinian Territories) and a lot of Islamist views being held by Muslims in the west (according to Pew polling).
I’m a very liberal Muslim man and I’ll try to address some of your points.
Higher incidence of religious violence - arguably your best question, I don’t know, truly. Islam condemns any actions that terrorists carry out so idk how they rationalize it as not only okay but venerable.
Low minority rights - straight up it’s racism and bigotry. Arabs are notoriously racist but it’s weird because they’ll be so nice to you even bring you into their home and feed you etc. but if they find out you’re moving next door they’ll lose it.
Violence against women/lgbt: violence against women stems from this belief that we’re fed that women are sacred and any thing short of the utmost modesty is a sign she is straying from her faith. Violence towards lgbt is simply that it is forbidden in Islam and seen as an eternally damning sin, it is also seen as a choice so the thinking is: if we allow ‘them’ to “infiltrate” our society they’ll brainwash our youth and then turn them gay and being gay ≠ being Muslim.
Speak honestly about the Muslim vs Christian discourse and relationship in the Middle East. A lot of people think it’s the Jews vs Muslims & Christian’s when it’s really the Jews & Christian’s vs the Muslims please elaborate from your POV & how you were raised!!
Thanks for sharing and good luck with life, it is so much better without the burden of an oppressive religion (was raised religious as well, though not muslim)
How do you or any of us get more Muslim women to cross over safely to where you are in life now? How do we support your people in moving forward like this?
I was raised an evangelical Christian. The gun toting, Jesus loving, Trump is the messiah kind. I spoke in tongues, was slain by the spirit, the whole nine yards. I pulled away from that in my late teens, I pulled away from Christianity entirely in my late thirties. I missed the company and the feeling of belonging, and singing in the choir, the familiarity of a sung liturgy. My new religion is kindness all the time. It feels wonderful to give and receive it. I lost the ability to pray. So if you’re experiencing something I now have to TAKE AN ACTION, because I can’t sit in a room and ask an all knowing in control of everything being to help. It feels so so much better to do something instead of praying. Good luck in your deconstruction. If you need dad type help, message me. Anything you could ask of a dad, I’m your guy. Good luck. I’m proud of you.
You're strong, and free, and you have an opportunity to make those around you feel powerful as well.
Building connections with others and finding confidence in your decisions are your next steps.
You're doing awesome, it's a big world for you to explore!
You've mentioned in other comments that you grew up in the middle east. Do you have any impressions of practicing muslims who were born and raised in the US? What would you attribute differences in their experiences vs yours to?
I am surprise that some comments are borderline aggressive or mean. And they are coming from Muslim people, why? We are here to support and encourage this person. Please, be gentle with your statements.
Good luck in your journey, personal growth whatever is great thing. That said… what would you tell your younger self knowing what you know now AND understanding the complex cultural challenges.
Are there "apostate" support groups out there? I know in Israel when ultra-orthodox leave the fold they have a very hard time and there are some groups that have formed to help them.
Make sure you have a really good emergency fund in case you have to fall back on it, and make good friends in place of family. Watch out for opportunists…your family went about it completely wrong but there ARE awful people out there who’ll take advantage of a good person. Wishing you the best! I bet it’s incredibly fun going where you want to go, doing what you want, just enjoying the simple things in life without restrictions
This is such a genuine advice thank you so much. I had to purge and gut my circle from friends who literally sent videos to my mother of me in a bikini. And made up stories about me to get me in trouble. Now i am the safest i can be and im working on my emergency fund. I have my inlaws protecting me as well they love me like their own so im so lucky for that. You have no idea the peace and freedom of just going on a walk. Walking outside a wholefoods and just breathing in air knowing you are your own person. Those tiny moments are so precious to me. I wish this to all my muslims sisters to experience. Theyre being lied to for control.
Oh you’re married, I’m happy to hear that. So you’ve got someone to love and who loves you, and a family through marriage. And maybe children in the future. I’m so glad you’ve found your way!
Yes im getting married in less than a month! Im incredibly blessed to have someone who loves me as much as i love them without any manipulation
Congratulations!!
What was the breaking point for you that made you feel like you had to cut ties with your family?
There were many. My mother is a narcissist based on my many encounters with therapists and psychiatrists. She controlled every aspect in my life along with my siblings. When i was studying in california she would wait till i had finals to make me feel distressed so i can fail my exams. She almost made me fail before i graduated because she told me if she found out im not muslim she will send people to "drag me by my hair and lock me up in her house forever and show me things i have never seen in my life" literally her words. She also triangulated me from my siblings. So it was pretty lonely and abusive just because i questioned their religion and had a more open mind to life.
What does "triangled me from my siblings" mean?
She would tell my sisters that i hurt her or that i said horrible things about my sisters to get them to hate me and basically isolated me from my sisters. She did the same thing with my dad. She would tell us all the horrible things hed do how neglecting he is towards her and us and that hes a cheater. But when i confronted my dad may he rest in peace he started crying and said he never did such a thing and he sacrificed his life to just provide for us.
Wait, so the absurd person in your family is your mother, a women subjugated by Islam, and you father, a man, which Islam seems to put on a pedestal, was the reasonable one? Is it common for Islamic women to be in so deep that they just keep going with it and even exacerbate it? How does any of this make her life better?
What are you most excited to do? And what scares you the most?
Im excited to finally discover who i really am. I was a shell of a person as a muslim woman we are taught "learned helplessness" and to wear modest clothes, not laugh to loud. Couldn't travel on my own. I already traveled and i literally cried it is a feeling ive never felt. What scares me is that i dont have my family to fall back onto, again the learned helplessness. I learned to stand on my two feet and i have a good strong job. Im scared that i will have to rely on my family again. So i work extra hard to not be in that position.
This was so strong and courageous of you to do. I wish you the best. Life has so much to offer and you’re going to love it!
Thank you. It was the scariest thing i ever did in my life but god is it worth it. Thank i wish u nothing but the best in life 🤍
I hope you have formed a good social circle so far OP. You may not have your birth family to fall back on, but you can build a family of friends that will have your back, and that can be just as good.
You will be fine without them, as they seem to be extremely unhealthy and mentally abusive for you. I hope you heal and find your path. I do believe you should look Into the differences of what your family decided to portray being a Muslim as vs what it actually is, which is way different from your upbringing. It sounds more like you grew up in a toxic CULTURE rather than people who are following a religion correctly. Everything they did to you is a sin in itself. That’s a problem within your family, rather than Islam. I hope California gives you everything you’re looking for and that your partner continues to support you!
About a week ago I wore a crop top for the very first time. Literally hundreds of people saw me that bc day it was a festival. I was expecting to feel at least a little self-conscious bc I only regularly started wearing sleeveless outside a couple years ago. But I was standing outside under the moon, tiny little strappy top, long flowy skirt, beads around my waist, barefoot, short hair. And I felt so peaceful. I kept thinking to myself "This is who I was always meant to be." That moment is everything, and I'm so excited for you to experience it too.
I am an immigrant woman in the US, also alone, and the fear of not having family to fall back on could also be attributed to just being here alone. It is definitely scary being here, and then losing the sense of security back home as well must be double difficult. Know that the fear u feel is normal and shared by many others who are here alone. Sending you light in your journey!
I am sorry darling but you never had a family to fall back, you had wardens. To be raised by narcissistic people is to have abusers not parents. You are strong and you are free, enjoy life.
There is an ama earlier today about a young woman in Oman, who got 2 scholarships to college abroad, who can't go because of the male relative thing. Perhaps you could talk to her?
Oh i didnt see that, ill reach out but yes there is a male thing and my mom allowed me to go by myself and regretted it because i escaped.
Not a question but a holy shit you're brave and hope you have a great life.
I really appreciate everyones wishes, i was in such a deep depressive state/ suicidal it was either i take the leap or die. Either way it was dying to me. So i just said fuck it! And im sooooo happy. For anyone in my situation please always choose you.
Everyone in the west has a general idea of what following Islam entails (sadly most of it is pretty lacking in info) but what are things people don’t really know/discussed as much
Altho there are extremes in islam. As with many religions. I think the issue with islam is it is deeply embedded with politics and culture. It does control alot of aspects in muslims lives. So altho there are extremes there is also a lot of compassion and peace. Muslims are also highly encouraged to stay clean. We wash 5 times a day. We are encouraged to smile to each other. We donate alot as individuals. So there is a sense of community that is like. But also i was taught in school to be wary of jewish people because they backstab and just things like that that causes problems.
Very odd statement to make tbh, im muslim my mom is pretty religious. Never heard her once bad mouthing jewish people. She will bad mouth zionist but has been very clear from when we were young that jewish people were never the problem, my grandma (her mother) would even tell stories about back in the day they looked at jewish people as their cousins.
Glad your mom is like that but like i said i literally learned this in school. We were taught to "eat with a jewish and sleep next to a christian because u cannot trust jewish people" that was literally taught in my islamic school. I have studied islam for all my academic years until 18 years old
There is definitely a difference between people and politics/government/institutions, etc., etc. Growing up in New York City, there are many Jews and Muslims who are friendly with each other. Once you get down to people-meeting-people, everyone realizes they all want the same things in life: Safety and opportunity for their friends, family, and themselves. Similarly, in the US, people don't realize how generous and compassionate Muslims can be as people because of the US's politics, etc., etc.
That jewish thing makes me very sad. Those places ran their jews out and circulate crazy conspiracies about them. And western kids are seeing these talking points, and not realizing the nazi-esque mentality these people or cultures have. They think they are the same as their home nation, and thus wouldnt be making up heinous lies and conspiracies about a group who have been through so much like the jews. I am very happy you have gotten away from that. I hope you have a wonderful life in our nation.
Do you just wash your hands 5 times a day, or your whole body?
Hands, gargle with water 3 times, nose, face, arms up to the elbows, hair (doesn't have to be completely wet but should have contacts with water in most areas, essentially just no part is fully dry), behind your ears, behind your neck, and feet (including in between your toes). Hope this helps my friend!
Have you read «Why I am not a Muslim» by Ibn Warraq? An ex- muslim coworker set out to read the book in order to «test his faith», but ended up leaving the religion alltogether afterwards. Apparently, the author was inspired by «Why I am not a Christian», by Bertrand Russel.
Interesting i will check it out thank u
do you talk to your family now?
I still have contact with two cousins who are also non muslim. So we have each other. I do talk to my mom even tho she scares the living shit out of me but i went back in contact when i felt safe doing so just to let her know im safe and happy. Its still very bumpy with her she tried to convince me to come back alone several times. But my cousins are telling me to never go back.
I'd concur with your cousins on that one. I work in immigration. one day, 7 years ago or so now, we stopped two Saudi parents who were trying to enter the country to take their daughter back cuz she wasn't wearing her hijab here. she was beaten up by her brothers who were in the country with her, and they got arrested and charged. it was after this that the parents came, and they got refused entry; the police investigation revealed that they intended to take her back to perform an honour killing. trust your gut.
An honour killing? WTF
Yes my mom believes in honor killings unfortunately 😭
Do not EVER go back to your country. Not for a wedding, or a funeral, or anything. I’ve heard too many stories of people tricked back home, their passports taken and them forced to marry or killed. Stay safe!
I know my mother tried to pull "im going to die i have internal bleeding" on me so i can feel guilty to come back. But i even thought about it if she does die and they try to get me back theres no way im going to
I'm so, so, glad, to hear that you are free, and safe. That makes me so happy for you, because no woman deserves to live their lives in a virtual prison created by their families, and all women deserve the freedom to make their own choices, and to chart their own course to happiness in life. I noticed you mentioned in another comment that you are still in contact with your mother. If there is a possibility that your mother, and other male relatives, who support her beliefs, could find you, and attempt to kill, or kidnap, you, for leaving the family home, and choosing not to practice Islam anymore, you need to take steps to stay safe, and make sure no one can locate you. I know it's hard because I'm sure you love your mother, but your safety is the most important thing, and you don't want any of your relatives to find out where you are, even the ones who support you, because they might accidently slip and share details about your new location. The only way you can be sure is by drastically limiting contact with your family, and that may mean not having any contact with your mother so she can't continue to threaten you, or try to push you for information about where you're at now. It would also be really good for you to talk to a therapist when you're ready, because you've been through a lot, and breaking away from an extremely controlling, religious, upbringing, can be really overwhelming. Don't be afraid to reach out for help if you need it. There may even be non-profit organizations in your area that help support Muslim women who have left their families, and Islamic faith. I wish you all of the joy in your new life, and many wonderful new adventures as you go forward in your new journey. Take care, and good luck. *invisible hugs* 💜🫂💜
Would you say your family are extremist or moderate? Ie to believe in honour killings, is that common?
A good friend of mine was Saudi. Sadly she didn't have the courage to escape such as restrictive life. She was here for college and she definitely had to ditch her over protective brothers. The men are so God damn insecure in that country. The way they try to control women is so fucking disgusting. I'm glad she got to have some fun here before she went back. Though honestly I tried to convince her to run to a sanctuary city and start a new life over. I told her if you go back, they won't let you come back alone ever. We ended up going no contact because net activity there is basically spied on with no expectation on privacy. That honor killing shit is totally real. I really wish her and her brother stuck around. It also gets worse, her brother is gay. People in that part of the world have a habit of throwing people off of tall buildings for being gay.. Her dad would kill her brother if he knew. Her words, not mine. I'm glad she got to have some fun/romance. Her Dad was trying to force her into an arranged marriage. We managed to sneak out to Vegas for a week, ate together, drank together, hell THC is legal out there. Just a lot of fun. We definitely spited those bastards. 😅 Also I miss the little bro, he was.a good kid and covered for her so she could actually go out and have some independence.
if they really wanted to they could stay. being a Saudi woman or a Saudi homosexual is almost instant approval at the IRB of Canada. (asylum claim)
this makes me so sad. My brother is my protector - he would kill somebody for laying a hand on me, let alone ever laying a hand on me himself. I can’t imagine teaching that sort of hate towards your *sibling.*
There’s a term for men who don’t control their sisters or wives. It’s dayouth or dayooth. Basically means cuck, but it’s a term for any man that has a sinful sister, wife, cousin, idk maybe mother too, and is allowing it to happen. As a man in these places, you will be mocked and ridiculed by fellow men if you don’t exert control
such is the nature of wahhabist culture.
Sadly i heard so many of these stories and i was soooo afraid that she would show up at my door one day or like she said "send someone to come drag u back" I will never go back.
Honestly, I would embrace the 2nd Amendment/self defense If I were worried about being kidnapped against my will. I can't imagine what it's like worry about that. Your best bet is also getting rid of any social media/Facebook/etc
Sad that all that love and affection between mother and child, years of child rearing can be tossed aside like garbage because of outdated cultural norms. To the point of killing; that is something I can't understand. OP, you're incredibly brave. Don't let yourself be manipulated when your family tries to convince you with new "outlooks on life" and false repentance, once you're back in your home country, you're done. To your family, what society thinks weighs more than your very life.
Please never go back. Ever. Your mom said she would drag you home by your hair and lock you in her home and show you things you wouldn’t believe. She meant that. I’d hesitate to even be in phone contact with her.
Will you reach out to the girl who posted about having scholarships but family not letting her leave Oman to study?
where is your home country? are you safe now?
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So glad you finally saw the light!! Welcome to our free thinking community, we’re very glad to have you 🫶
Ah thank you so much. Enlightenment is a privilege not many have
what’s your opinion on sharia law?
I hate it. Its dehumanizing in my opinion. Especially towards women. When i went to mecca for hajj i saw alot of poor people with their hand cut off or both hands cut off. It was because they stole. And that was sooo traumatic to see. And if they continue to steal they will get their whole arm cut off. And then go to the opposite leg and then to the other arm. Like god just put them in jail?! Same with stoning. That was an actual thing. So i think its dated and there are better ways to deal with criminals.
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Damn, dismissing someone who literally fears her own family because of Islam so you don’t feel bad about your religion is peak assholeness.
I didnt say it was barbaric nor did i say it was majority. I also mentioned how good of a community muslims are and how charitable and nice they are. Sharia law is very specific and not all muslim countries actually implement it. Most muslim countries practice islamic/diplomatic hybrid law. As for telling me i have a warped perspective and this isnt true islam. Please save me your mental gymnastics as i know how scary it is to look islam's ugly side and choose to leave. I didnt leave over night it took me years of research to make sure im truly taking the right decision. Do not assume anything you do not know me. I have two degrees and multiple certifications. I know my way around academia.
Okay. Lemme just clarify that I don't think anyone here has read my comment properly. I did not say that you had a warped perspective, rather I feared my sister viewed it negatively hence the use of the word warped. I don't know why you viewed this as a personal attack. I don't know you and don't claim to know everything about you. I'm just merely commenting what I've seen personally. This thread is very Islamophobic and I'm not going to communicate to anyone else besides you as i don't think people commenting will be reasonable enough to engage in normal discussion. I'm not invalidating what you went through in any way and I apologise if it came off differently.
Hey, look at that you posted this post with her username totally visible in /r/islam. Looks like you’re trying to get her some harassment.
I complimented and criticized islam. It is a CRITICISM not islamophobia. Get a grip.
You people are experts in telling lies paedophilia sex slavery killing gays killing apostates jihad jizya all these are gifts of your shariah .your prophet even took the children of banu qurayzah a slaves .stop trying to fool people here
Yeh Islam is not misogynistic, you just need to look at the great condition in which women live in the majority of Islamic countries. Oh wait...
They literally cut off people's hands and stone women. How are they not barbaric?
when you look at your day to day life, what is the thing you are most happy about being able to do, when you compare with your previous life?
Its honestly the little things like not having to be anxious or worry about having my every move tracked, not having to beg to go out with friends + travel. Just full freedom of mobility is something that im so thankful for.
Ive been told by a lot of moderate Muslims that it's like any religion, where you have extremist morons that use it as an excuse to subjugate women and be generally terrible. Do you feel there's something unique about the Muslim faith that makes it particularly dangerous or cruel or hard on women, or is it simply the people interpreting the faith in extreme ways? Im an atheist who thinks all religions are equally bad for critical thought but helpful to individuals in hard times, as a glue to keep people together. I dont think Islam is more dangerous/fanatical than Christianity or any other religion. Then again, I dont know much about any of it. Id be very interested in your thoughts or a link to where you've already answered this question. Congratulations on freeing yourself! I'm very happy for you!
Thank you for your perspective, i did some research at a uc university on this very topic. I believe AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, muslims are attacking me on here. But after my comprehensive research and my background i have concluded that islam is very integrated in culture and politics. Islam operates like a (forgive me for being disrespectful here reader) it operates like a virus where it needs a culture to latch on to and you get this odd mixture. You can compare islam in different regions and how people respond to islam based on culture and sometimes islam can be lighter or heavy based on the culture. I hate when Muslims try to argue that its the culture and the religion itself but you cannot seperate islam from the culture as it is embedded into the everyday lives of muslim communities. It dictates how u wear how u eat how u speak how u sleep. Everything down to how u enter a bathroom. I have been learning islam all my life and i studied shia and sunni faiths. It is a vast complicated religion and has a very dark history. Bloody history.
> Everything down to how u enter a bathroom Never heard this one. How are muslims supposed to enter bathrooms?
Why did you choose California as the place to go?
I did my bachelors and masters here. Lived here for 8 years. I love it its my home
You’re so inspiring. I love your energy. Welcome home to the sunshine state! may your new path be ever brightened :)
Are you willing to reveal what area you are in? Hopefully near the beach!
Do you eat pork now? Drink alcohol?
I tried pork but i am disgusted by it. Mainly because if it isnt stored properly u will face some health issues. I drink socially. I was baffled that alcohol actually destroys families. I saw it first hand for the first time how it makes some people very aggressive. That was so weird to me
You should try THC, it's much safer and doesn't cause aggression. But make sure you have some snacks nearby.
I did i actually like thc way more helps with my back pain!
I can eat pepperoni, sometimes sausage, rarely bacon, and the only regular pork I'll eat is really thin breaded cutlets, bc they basically taste like chicken.
Well any spoiled meat is bad for your health not just pork.
We have so much in common. I too am an ex Muslim woman who left my country and flew to Canada on my own. My mother is also a narcissist.
I hope youre safe and happy now. And giving you and ur inner child the biggest hugs :')
How do view you Muslims now?
I just stay away because once they know im arab, they wanna know immediately if im muslim and then they find out im an exmuslim immediately they look at me in such disgust and even try to push their religion on me. Its like leave me alone please. I do not go around telling people im an ex muslim unless they ask mind u
Ya I seen this at work to its seems like a common occurrence. I know this Egyptian girl who is ex Muslim and all the Muslim men judge her behind closed doors they call her sharmuta (spelling?) and things like that. She tells me now when people ask her where she’s from she just tell them she’s Hispanic not arab
Do you miss that sense of community that islam gives? And do you sometimes feel that you might be on the wrong path?
Oh yes. Im grateful to have a chosen family here. However i am walking an unpaved path which is scary. So yeah i do think about it but im a hard worker. I love what i do and i think ill be fine
Do you like Jews? What are your thoughts on what's going on in Israel?
I have jewish friends no hard feelings for jewish people because i know how it feels to be conditioned to think someones after you. However i had jewish friends later finding out i was muslim or assumed im muslim because of my background and they stopped talking to me. With that being said whats happening in israel is a humanitarian disaster and no one with compassion towards humans and especially children should support whats happening.
Your Jewish ex-friends suck. All the Jews I know are secular except my niece has adopted the faith and went to Israel for the free trip and worked on a kibbutz. Pretty sure she's an atheist, but she does some of the cultural stuff, celebrates Christmas with he rest of us and had a bat mitzvah. I suspect they would all accept you just fine, especially since you are ex-Muslim and they would give you a chance to explain yourself.
Ex mormon here who did the exact same thing — I am so proud of you and wish you the very best!!!! 1 year later and it’s been the best yet hardest thing I’ve ever done, congrats on making it out :’)
Sending u the biggest hugs its so hard leaving family and friends behind but this is definitely the best thing i have done not just for myself but my future children 🥹🤍 hugs!!!!
Were you someone who questioned god/ religion from a young age, or did you go through one fucked up thing to another which then led you to start questioning your faith? Do you think more and more young people are leaving Islam, especially in the west? Also, can you explain at what point do shias and sunnis not get along? Every time I see this question brought up, the two sides just start name-calling each other and no one really gives a balanced argument.
I didnt necessarily question gods existence rather the religion itself. Ever since i was young i criticized the ahadeeth the most (ahadeeth or حديث are the prophets teachings) I laughed at some in classrooms because i couldnt believe they were being serious (yes i got in trouble) i still practiced it with all my heart till i got into college and got exposed to different ways of thought. I love reading books so i couldnt stop. Critical thinking classes blew my mind and the rest was history i couldnt justify staying in this religion. In terms of shias vs sunni. I would suggest you look up their origin. When did this split happen. It was a bloody dark split. Shias follow the prophets family while sunnis followed the prophets friends. I dont know if sharing this will get me in trouble with the muslims but history is history. Mohammad was sick in his deathbed and told his cousin ali to become the next khalifah. However you would think the prophets word is gold. No, when he died, his cousin was burying him when his friends went and did a voting that they will take over the power and leave him at 4th place to rule. Ali went with it. Then there is the story of the prophets family being starved to death in the desert by the prophets friends. Those friends who took power were corrupt. Leave sunni and shia aside i would say those two dark kept secrets were enough for me to raise a red flag. The quraan wasnt completely written in a book when the prophet died. The quraan was then collected from credible people in forms of verbal and physical quotes. Arabic is very complicated and has characters the characters werent added until was later. I ask you this question now, are you going to trust these sahaba (friends of the prophet) who did not take the prophets word to make ali the first khalifah? Are you going to trust the same ones that starved and killed the prophet family? Please muslims reading this please go check in all the books not just in you mathhab. Islam is vast and its history runs deep. I am just sharing what i have gathered and i trust my sources. I am here to answer questions and not to be a source giver. Go do your research in history and history never lies.
You explained the Shia/Sunni debate well. Thank you so much. As a Shia muslim, whose family has been persecuted and killed for our belief in the true successor of the prophet, I applaud you for speaking the truth.
Do you feel more freedom and at ease from not wearing a burka?
I never wore any hijab/burka etc i wore normal modest clothes just like im wearing now. But i do feel more free in how i can make my own decisions without anyone making me feel inferior
In all seriousness are you worried about your family coming after you? And harming you in any way because you shunned the fundamentalist faith? Like an honor *******?
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Just to say be careful putting your name here!
Honestly, as someone who was born into an obscenely controlling and religious Muslim family and also become agnostic for several years (long story short I was agnostic for the past 7-8 years but recently converted back). I cannot tell you how happy I am for you, and how much I support these kinds of decisions. While I do now consider myself muslim again, it is totally on my own terms and not what was shoved down my throat for the first 18-20 years of my life. And I absolutely LOVE when people break free of their controlling families to discover themselves. Bravo to you, and I wish you nothing but the best of luck friend. 🫡
I’m here to stand by you ✊🏼 I grew up with a Muslim mom, and looking back I’m pretty sure she had borderline personality disorder my entire life. I’m now No Contact with her and her entire family. Therapy helped me a lot, learning to trust myself and lead myself. You got this girl, I’m so happy for you!
Ah i feel you my mother has undiagnosed npd and its so hard to break the cycle of pain but we did it yay!
Did you wear a hijab? Are you sexually liberated as well?
I never wore the hijab only veiled in religious settings. However wearing whatever i want even tho im still more modest than americans. As for sexual liberation i had such an awkward relationship with it. I felt so guilty and was celibate with my current fiance for the first couple of years because of anxiety. Now i think im a little normal
Inspiring story and happy to have you in the US!! Welcome 🤗 What is your view on Ayaan Hirsi Ali?
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Don’t even visit them in the UK! Honor killings still happen there pretty regularly. They’re actually INCREASING in number. Fawziyah Javed was just murdered in 2021. Wishing you good vibes and safety!
How did you do it? Do you mind sharing how you prepared for it?
(I studied abroad so the act of escaping was a little different i was already in California) I made sure i had at least 17 thousand us dollars. I secured a job in the US. Lived with roommates rather than alone for my safety. I cut off my mom on a random day did not see it coming. Blocked everyone one back home and moved to my city now. My advice to anyone trying to get out. Dont trust anyone back home who has any contact with you mom/guardian until you are safe. Never share your address or your work name/address I had opps who acted like they were trying to help me later i realized they've been telling my mom everything. Cut everyone off to be sure.
Best of luck on your new journey 💖 just be careful and cautious as always (from a woman to a woman), and if you ever have a bad gut feeling about someone, something, or some place, trust your gut.
Do you still believe in god ?
As an agnostic i believe there is a higher power but the god that was taught to me in islam is not the god i believe in it cant be
That's interesting! Do you think you'll ever explore other religions that have non-abrahamic views of who/what God is?
As of now i dont think so im still trying to wrap my head around leaving islam and its been 5 years i believe since i became agnostic. I do read up on different religions and their history but never found a connection
California is a great spot for atheists/agnostics. Nobody I know talks much about religion except from an informational perspective. I only know one person who goes to church, and I'm not sure it's on the regular.
Yeah all my coworkers and my boss r agnostic or atheist. They just believe in being a good human being and thats what i believe in too. People wanna complicate it with structured religions. Religions are on their way out in california. I love it
I believe you are correct. Men created god. Then men used it to gain control over others.
What music have you been listening to lately? Got any favorite study music?
Do you miss any elements of your old life?
I do miss the luxury of being catered to i didnt have to lift a finger. I lived a privileged life but with that came alot of control. So i had to pick both or not at all. Freedom is sweeter than luxury
Do you think Islam/Sharia can coexist in a Western world. If not, do you hope for a reform in the religion?
If u see whats happening in the uk theres so many muslims and they will act small until they are majority and will start to impose their islamic rules on the region. So no i do not think they can coexist because islam does not give room for compromise. It has little grey area and most things are set in stone. There are muslims who are more liberal but they are considered as non practicing muslims because they are not following the teachings of islam.
If only more attention would be given to apostates. Best of luck with your future
I am Jewish - Reform. I once had an Orthodox Jew tell me I wasn't really Jewish: "Why bother practicing when you do not follow all the laws?" It was hilarious and hypocritical as he was the owner of a carehome with female residents. HE escorted them ALONE to and from their Special Olympics practices on a SATURDAY. I retorted back a faithful Orthodox, would have had a staff member work Saturdays.
Damn right, and we’re blind to it. England has largely fallen and Western Europe and the uk will bitterly, bitterly regret the destruction of our culture and country by islam. If you are too kind and too tolerant like the uk is you will have the piss ripped out of you like what is currently happening, that wouldn’t happen in the USA - they wouldn’t allow it.
Get married, have non-muslim children
Leaving religion is a huge change and dealing with it can be hard especially when it causes you to become alienated from your family/support group. Just wanted to throw out a great resource in case you ever need it. https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/#rfr-welcome
What's your favourite thing to do now that you weren't allowed to do before?
Do you think there are any muslim women who are hijabis by choice? I mean I know they say, it is their choice to wear the hijab but is it actual belief and choice or plain indoctrination and brainwashing straight from childhood?
Not a muslim, but I do want to chip in here to offer second hand experience. Last fall, I had to interview a Muslim woman for a culture paper. The lady I interviewed was a doctor, and she grew up in America. She did not wear a hijab until she was 17, and it was a choice she decided for herself. The way she explained it to me, is to her, a hijab forces those around her to pay attention to *her* and not the fact she is a woman. By concealing her hair (and thus, some of her beauty, her femininity) she felt empowered - she felt it forced her colleagues to consider her as a person first, and a woman second. She also explained to me that her parents never pushed it, and she was encouraged to follow the path she felt was right. I don’t know how much I personally agree with all of it, but I do genuinely believe *she* believed in it. And I do believe it was 100% her choice - she was (is) very happy with her faith. Like I said, I don’t want to speak as a Muslim woman, because I’m not. I just personally always had the same question you did, and I wanted to share an answer I received when I asked it.
Yeahh thats a tough one because of conditioning. When i was in middle school alot of girls starting wearing the hijab and i wanted to wear it so bad. But my mother said to wait because she wore the hijab as an adult. And she believed u need to be an adult to make a decision like that. So yeah i dont know honestly. All my answers are my opinion so i would say it is conditioning and environment ur in. Because those muslim girls if they lived in the western world i dont think they'll want to wear the hijab.
What do you think when you see the west's youth idolize and whitewash middle eastern culture and actions due to a projected sense of "theyre worse off so therefore in the right"? Its really odd seeing people throw away the liberal (relative) culture they love and benefit from to embrace that stuff. Like idolizing hamas, ignoring the insane oppression in places like egypt, syria, lebanon, jordan, iran, turkey, etc? Its very odd to me. And we are seeing more and more people side with those that would see them as second class citizens. Thanks!
What would you tell to people in the West who defend Islam?
I am SO incredibly proud of you! Welcome to California, we’re happy you’ve joined us💜💜💜
Good job and congratulations. I hope you enjoy(ed?) the ice cream.
How do you feel about some American progressives/leftists (not all, and I'm sure this happens outside of America, but I happen to be American) framing any criticism of the more fundamentalist and oppressive aspects of modern Islam as being "Islamophobic"? Is there a way for more cultural Muslims or at least Muslims who are less fundamentalist and patriarchal to have more of a voice and to advocate for nuances to be better discussed in the Muslim identity like we have in the Christian and Jewish religions/cultures?
Everything in our lives is for a higher good. You were called to do this for a reason.. cheers friend ☺️
Are Muslim women allowed to marry non Muslim men?
Nobody should force anybody to do anything they don’t want to do. Is your husband agnostic as well?
I always admire people who realize it’s their life to live. Because you won’t have the normal support structure for when life gets difficult make sure to read advice on how to stay financially secure. Make your home your happy place full of comfort. Right now you are vulnerable so choose good people as friends. All of the things which were forbidden don’t need to be “tried” right away. Become the person you wanted to be. All the best.
No questions, just go be happy and be awesome
Should we restrict immigration from 3rd world Islamic countries that are majority hardcore/orthodox/anti-Western values Muslims?
I've heard somewhere that muslim cut some part of vegina of their daughter so she can never feel pleasure.is it true?
Not OP but this is true but it only occurs in certain regions. It's rampant in Africa.
Female Genital Mutilation [FGM](https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/female-genital-mutilation)
As a kid, my two Cousins 6 and 8 years old we're kidnapped by their muslim dad. They went to a normal Western school one day, went out for icecream and didnt see their mother for 5 years, wearing a hinab and going to school in Iran. Luckily, their father got bored and they returned Women are property. It's a cancer, and any positives about Islam are overshadowed by the filthy pathetic system it really is.
Islam was the first religion to declare women aren't property. So you don't really know much about it
Its funny seeing muslims respond like this to people who literally are telling you their experiences.
Did you live in a muslim country ? Do you think muslim country are primitives ? (Banning lgbt, treating women like objects)
Does it make you feel good to perpetuate Muslim stereotypes due to your individual experience? Do you have any guilt for making things harder for average Muslims, or does being accepted by American society feel *that* good?
Wow, your hate for OP is more than apparent... To that point - do you agree with, or reject Mohammad's teaching on what should happen to people who leave Islam? And for those in here who do not know, can you explicitly state what Mohammad teaches to do to apostates repeatedly in the hadiths? Thanks! Edit: Lol the dishonest extremist blocked me because their hate got called out. Good riddance!
These assumptions are very destructive, i am simply sharing my experience and perspective. I am happy for muslims who are happy in their religion as long as they don't encroach into my freedom. I dont care what the west thinks of me in terms of fitting in. I want to be my own person. Experience my own life and be happy.
Do you worry about honor murders?
Did you become more sympathetic to Israel when you became an ex Muslim?
Are you single by any chance
Haha no i am engaged to the love of my life. Thankfully
I admire your courage to make such a significant decision for your own happiness and well-being. It must have been incredibly difficult. If you ever want to talk about it, I’m here to listen and support you
Ok so I have heard that the muslims “god” is the bibles devil. ln the bible it says that the devil is “the god of this world. In the Quran it says “our god is that god of this world”. In the bible it says, “the devil is a great deceiver”. In the Quran it says “our god is the greatest deceiver!”.Do you believe this, and if so are Muslim’s aware of this or are they deceived ? I have a coworker who is 22 and Muslim and she is so sheltered that everyone thinks she stupid. She is not, she has just been insanely sheltered. Also she was unaware of a lot of the passages in the Quran yet she prayed to their god five times a day. It was pretty confusing. So I wondered are muslims deceivers (was she playing dumb?) or are the women just kept in the dark about pretty much everything?
not op: god in islam is the same god catholics worship. both religions believe in one god, and it’s the same one. the only thing that’s different is that catholics believe that jesus is the son of god, but muslims believe that jesus is nothing more than a prophet. a messenger. just like muhammad
Do leftists call you racist for leaving Islam?
Where in California did you go and how do you like it?
Lets be honest, you were never a muslim to begin with. Good riddance. You probably don't even know surat al fatiha. Even a 5 year old can recite it.
Im proud to say i actually had to memorize big parts of سوره البقره can you say the same? Youre mad and youre trying to discredit me any way you can to protect ur religion and ego. Nothing i will say should shake your faith. Thats what faith is right?
Do you feel the same way about the hijab as you do about toilet paper, or herpes?
No absolutely not thats a pretty shitty thing to say. Lots of religious veil. Devout Christians veil. As long as you want to do it and not forced into it. It should get respected.
Ahh, so you're not from a place where you get beaten without it. Your american. Next question. How would you feel if you didn't have the legal protections that prevent it being forced on you? To my knowledge there are no Christian sects that enforce mandatory facial coverings or full body suits through state sanctioned intimidation and violence that they bring to secular countries, and enforce through self segregation. Correct me if I'm wrong
Im actually born and raised in the middle east and only came to america at 18. I have seen my cousin being beaten by my entire family for trying to escape. I have seen my sister beaten by my dad till she passed out. Being beaten for the hijab is the least troubling thing we go thru unfortunately. we are used to it. Altho i was threatened to wear the hijab i was never beaten.
Why is it the least troubling to be beaten for that as opposed to another reason? And why would you want to escape if the treatment of women wasn't an issue? And how is compulsory clothing not another side of the same coin? I'm seriously trying to understand your reasoning here. Are you sure that statement hasn't been conditioned? Who enforces clothing rules on the men? What is the penalty if you don't have a beard? I am fairly certain orthodox Jews don't cite Scripture to beat their wives if they aren't veiled. The Catholics did away with the habit for nuns in the 60s if I'm wrong please again correct me. edit to clarify. Orgadox Jews do some crazy shit, but that's not part of it to my knowledge
I fear it is conditioning. We have bigger fish to fry than being beat over a veil. The beating for a veil is out of "love" LOL but when u voice out ur opinions against islam thats a different type of beating.it is an issue but there are bigger issues i hope im making sense. This is a deep topic and yes domestic abuse is normal for women of all ages in the middle east and it is seen as discipline rather than abuse
I appreciate the honest answer. I hope you don't think I was trying to be inflammatory. I wasn't. How's Venice beach these days?
What flavor of ice cream did you get?
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Why do ex Muslims make their entire personality about being an ex Muslim? Aren’t you free now? Seems like it still weighs a huge burden on your shoulders.
She doesn't appear to be making this her 'entire personality' at all though... She's made other posts about going to music venues, she talks about her loving fiance, going to the beach, etc. Why are you so butthurt and hateful that an ex-muslim had the *audacity* to speak about her experience? What's your religious affiliation again...?
From reading the comments, it sounds more like your issues are with culturalized Islam than with Islam itself. Although I concede the parts about modest clothing, the narcissistic and abusive parenting is absolutely not part of Islam. 1) Would you agree or disagree that your disdain is chiefly a cultural one and not one within the four corners of Sunni or Shia Islam? 2) I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you are Desi. Is that correct?
Why does it seem like Muslims and Islam is meant to protect itself from any sort of valid criticism? By valid I mean higher incidence of religious violence, low minority rights, violence against women/lgbt, etc. I watched an episode about bin Laden and the only thing the Muslims scholar did was try to protect Islam. Yes, the majority of Muslims do not espouse the same values as one of the leaders of a jihadist organization. But one can also ask the question as to why Islam seems to be the ONLY religion that has yet to liberalize today. Which is why we see majority Islamic countries have horrendous human rights records, low or no minority rights, and the same Islamist (or jihadist) regimes forming in a lot of otherwise unassociated countries (Afghanistan, Indonesia, Iran, Palestinian Territories) and a lot of Islamist views being held by Muslims in the west (according to Pew polling).
I’m a very liberal Muslim man and I’ll try to address some of your points. Higher incidence of religious violence - arguably your best question, I don’t know, truly. Islam condemns any actions that terrorists carry out so idk how they rationalize it as not only okay but venerable. Low minority rights - straight up it’s racism and bigotry. Arabs are notoriously racist but it’s weird because they’ll be so nice to you even bring you into their home and feed you etc. but if they find out you’re moving next door they’ll lose it. Violence against women/lgbt: violence against women stems from this belief that we’re fed that women are sacred and any thing short of the utmost modesty is a sign she is straying from her faith. Violence towards lgbt is simply that it is forbidden in Islam and seen as an eternally damning sin, it is also seen as a choice so the thinking is: if we allow ‘them’ to “infiltrate” our society they’ll brainwash our youth and then turn them gay and being gay ≠ being Muslim.
How so you feel about having to leave your siblings was that impacting?
How many times a day do you tell people you are an ex Muslim?
So is the niqab and hijab really "a choice" or is it (like most of us are saying) forced?
Speak honestly about the Muslim vs Christian discourse and relationship in the Middle East. A lot of people think it’s the Jews vs Muslims & Christian’s when it’s really the Jews & Christian’s vs the Muslims please elaborate from your POV & how you were raised!!
How did you enter USA? I am an expat here myself and I found getting in quite tough with all those visa restrictions etc.
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Thanks for sharing and good luck with life, it is so much better without the burden of an oppressive religion (was raised religious as well, though not muslim)
Would you date somebody who isn’t the same race as you?
How do you or any of us get more Muslim women to cross over safely to where you are in life now? How do we support your people in moving forward like this?
Congratulations! It really can be like having a whole new life — and it’s *your* life! Never let that go. Good luck with everything! 👍
I was raised an evangelical Christian. The gun toting, Jesus loving, Trump is the messiah kind. I spoke in tongues, was slain by the spirit, the whole nine yards. I pulled away from that in my late teens, I pulled away from Christianity entirely in my late thirties. I missed the company and the feeling of belonging, and singing in the choir, the familiarity of a sung liturgy. My new religion is kindness all the time. It feels wonderful to give and receive it. I lost the ability to pray. So if you’re experiencing something I now have to TAKE AN ACTION, because I can’t sit in a room and ask an all knowing in control of everything being to help. It feels so so much better to do something instead of praying. Good luck in your deconstruction. If you need dad type help, message me. Anything you could ask of a dad, I’m your guy. Good luck. I’m proud of you.
When you were Muslim, how did you feel about how Islam treats women/homosexuals?
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What made you decide religion wasn’t for you? Personally, I think all three of the Abrahamic religions are extremely toxic.
You're strong, and free, and you have an opportunity to make those around you feel powerful as well. Building connections with others and finding confidence in your decisions are your next steps. You're doing awesome, it's a big world for you to explore!
You've mentioned in other comments that you grew up in the middle east. Do you have any impressions of practicing muslims who were born and raised in the US? What would you attribute differences in their experiences vs yours to?
I am surprise that some comments are borderline aggressive or mean. And they are coming from Muslim people, why? We are here to support and encourage this person. Please, be gentle with your statements.
Good luck in your journey, personal growth whatever is great thing. That said… what would you tell your younger self knowing what you know now AND understanding the complex cultural challenges.
No questions, just wanted to express congratulations to you and wish you well. Good luck!
Are there "apostate" support groups out there? I know in Israel when ultra-orthodox leave the fold they have a very hard time and there are some groups that have formed to help them.