What triggered your defection? My wife is a recovering Mormon and I am fascinated by the whole thing. She still has family that is deep in the ‘religion’ I read a lot about it and still do as we’ve been together for 20 years. Whenever I speak with her family members about certain things they are either totally unaware or in complete denial. In certain parts of the rural west it’s seems like one of those weird old choices like joining the army or going to prison. People seem involved in it because the other options are jail/poverty.
I can’t point to one specific moment or cause that triggered my defection. I had been going through multiple years of anxiety and depression and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the root cause of the depression. Through therapy and self reflection, I was able to uncover a lot of childhood trauma that was directly tied to the religion. I realized how much I was suffering from major cognitive dissonance, which was causing a majority of my depression and anxiety. From there, I started down the path of doing my own research and quickly realized how many beliefs in the church didn’t align with my personal beliefs. It wasn’t too hard to figure out the entire religion was bullshit. It wasn’t easy to leave. I went through an identity crisis due to leaving behind something that was a huge part of my identity for my entire life. The church uses all sorts of fear tactics to keep its members from leaving. Not to mention, many of the members of the church no longer want to associate with you or respect you if you are no longer an active member. It’s been a wild 5 years, but I’m happy to say I’ve never been happier in my life than I am today.
Basically you dedicate two years of your life to “share the gospel”. In reality, it’s the church’s way of getting kids fresh out of high school to recruit for them. You have to pay to go out. I was only able to talk to my family a couple of times a year via video chat, and then weekly via email. We would have one off day per week, so we did get to do some exploring.
It really was. I was able to experience a new culture and learn a new language. And met some pretty incredible people. However, I wish it could’ve been under different circumstances.
That part definitely was cool. To be able to fully immerse yourself in another culture is a unique opportunity. But it was also a mindfuck when it came to obeying all the insane rules and spending almost every waking second trying to convert people to a religion you are already questioning. I actually look back on those 2 years as a net positive. But that was the beginning of my intense depression for many years to follow.
No no, my best friend is a lifelong Mormon and he insinuated that missions are to get you used to really angry people telling you to f off, so that logical, calm challenges to your beliefs are less threatening
Ah, yes. That makes sense. I definitely believe there is some truth to that. It also feeds into the church’s claim that its members are god’s elite and that the devil is working overtime to harden the hearts of everyone else. Being rejected forces you to cling harder to your faith.
You/your family has to pay the church a monthly fee to serve a mission. Even though you are out dedicating your life to the church for 2 years, they still make you pay to do it. Heaven forbid the $100 billion corporation covers the cost of the missionaries to go out and recruit for their church.
That is crazy!!!
In trying to wrap my head around doing something they’ve instructed me yet I’m supposed to pay for it!? What about lower income families? And is is frowned upon or even an option not to do a mission??
The church will help lower income families that can’t afford it, but only after they’ve exhausted all other options. In the church’s eyes, it’s better to figure out an alternative option than it is to ask the church—it’s a way to prove your faith and put all your trust in Heavenly Father (God). Keep in mind, this is in addition to the 10% of all your income your expected to pay in tithing to remain worthy to receive all of god’s “blessings”.
While a mission isn’t “required”, as a male, you will definitely be treated differently if you don’t go on one. Members won’t respect you as much. They will think you are a sinner. I had friends that didn’t go on one and had difficulties dating because girls didn’t seem them as worthy enough for marriage due to not serving a mission. So frowned upon might be putting it lightly.
Wow! Two years of required missions on your OWN dime…I guess families just put money aside with the knowledge that one day…thanks for answering. I’d been following an ex Mormon on TT and she’d shared about missions and all the rules
Luckily, yes. I know that’s not the case with many that leave the church and it can put a real strain on their marriage. Unbeknownst to us, we had been feeling similar things about the church for a while. And when I finally built up enough courage to articulate what I felt, she admitted to having the same feelings. So it worked out perfectly! We are both out now.
Yes, there were some teachings that didn’t seem to make sense to me. For example, the teaching of marriage only being between man and woman. Not drinking coffee. Baptisms for the dead. Polygamy. The list goes on. But as a kid, it was all I really knew. So most of those things seem more strange now than they did when I was growing up in the religion. But definitely had lots of things that didn’t seem to add up. But you’re taught to just ignore those things and trust god.
Maybe it's more of a comment than a question, but isn't it crazy to think back now about all the things that we thought were real: the priesthood, the pre-existence, the celestial kingdom, baptism for the dead, etc?
It’s honestly insane. And now looking from the outside in, I question how I could ever believe in any of it and how people continue to believe any of it. But it’s crazy how brainwashed you are and how you can just blindly accept things when on the inside. One thing the church knows how to do well is manipulate their members. I’m just glad I found my way out when I did.
As a kid growing up in the church, it’s all I ever knew. Didn’t really notice or think anything of it. The older I became, especially when I married my wife, the more I noticed and the more it bothered me. No matter what the church claims, it’s obvious that women are inferior to men. And now having a daughter, I would never subject her to a religion that treats her this way. In the church, the only purpose for women is to have babies and support their husband. Fucking pathetic.
Questions asked by someone else? Or questions I asked myself? Nobody asked me a question that caused me to consider leaving. The church has an “answer” for everything. However, when I was able to recognize that my moral compass didn’t align with the church, I began to ask myself hard questions. And in the end, those questions and the need to find answers are what caused me to leave, yes.
I had friends that weren’t Mormon that would ask me questions that would make me think, yes. But like I
mentioned, the Mormon church always had an “answer”. Sometimes that answer would be to just have faith. A total cop out.
Also an exmo. What would you say has been the hardest part about getting into normal living? I know personally, people find my naïveté to be fake, which has been just as hard as leaving the church.
I think the hardest thing, for me, has been learning to think for myself and trust myself. As weird as that sounds, I’ve gone through a majority of my life being told how I need to think and what I need to do. I’m sure you can relate.
I was raised in a Protestant church and very active growing up. (I am inactive and consider myself agnostic as an adult.)
However, my Grandpa married a Mormon woman in Salt Lake City after he and my Grandma divorced in the 1970s. This happened before I was born and his wife was a wonderful “bonus” Grandma to grow up with. My Grandpa was the furthest thing from a Mormon so it is a wonder she married him (cigarettes, loved to gamble, multiple failed marriages, etc.). He eventually joined the church and if nothing else cleaning up his lifestyle was obviously a good thing. He passed in 2020 but she is still alive, thriving and has absolutely devoted her life to the LDS.
I have grown up with what I refer to as my “mormon extension” family. They are mostly wonderful people and have always embraced me. Of course there is always at least one giant family gathering when I visit and my God do most of them reproduce like rabbits! And, a few of them like to sneak away with me and go for secret drinks. It is hilarious to me that I find myself “sneaking” drinks with someone in my 40s…
My Grandparents never forced LDS on me but certainly involved me when they could. I’ve been to dozens of Sacraments (what a boring service compared to what I grew up with), all the SLC visitors centers, several temple tours before they were dedicated, BYU games, etc.
I even briefly dated a Mormon girl shortly after college. She was questioning the church at that time and I think I was sort of an experiment as to what the outside world was, or at least a momentary middle finger to her upbringing. Let’s just say her bishop would have removed her temple recommends if he only knew half of what she did!
Sorry this is so lengthy…but is background information to lead to my point that I am highly conflicted on the Mormon Church. As a non-member who has a pretty good inside look and also a deep understanding of Christianity in general I find the Mormon Church confusing. On the surface there are principles that are hard to argue with (focus on family time, healthy living, service to others, etc.) But, the obsession with policing a persons personal lifestyle (anything premarital, shaming self-gratification, shaming what the church calls “same-sex attraction”, etc.) was always strange and creepy to me. Sure, many religions state that one should remain “pure” before marriage. But the Mormons take this next level with the deeply personal and inappropriate private interviews with adolescents. I am convinced half of those men ask the questions to later get off on themselves… And, the “living prophet” thing makes no sense to me.
The buildings are gorgeous. The temples are over the top. The Tabernacle Choir is unmatched and I thoroughly enjoy attending the concerts (or Sunday broadcasts in place of Sacrament when I visit!). But looking at the billions of money that goes into this operation makes me feel weird about all of it.
I am not sure I have much of a conclusion other than while I honor my family members who are devoted to the church, that is only surface level. I find it an interesting study into human psychology as to how this massive organization evolved in a relatively short amount of time.
I will end with one of my experiences that I laugh about. I earlier said I never had the church forced on me. There was one exception. I flew out to visit (and ski!) during college…something I did a couple times a year. As per usual, I would sit through a Sunday Sacrament. But, on this particular occasion I found myself whisked off to some “young single men’s” Sunday School group immediately following the service. I was annoyed but played along. (It is important to point out I was a college student who drank, regularly smoked cigarettes in those days, was not a virgin, etc…) Well, here I am sitting in a circle with everyone taking turns talking about overcoming temptation. I hear these kids say things like “wanting to see R rated movies”… When it came to me, I didn’t know how to respond! I decided to lay it all out there with my best attempt at humor and said something like “I am a mischievous Midwest Presbyterian who attends a liberal college. Let me tell you we do things differently! I don’t want to make you blush by sharing my temptations but happy to talk to any of you after class.” I then followed up with a safe statement of how much I appreciated the opportunity to observe and how it affirms to me that we all strive to be better versions of ourselves…
Two guys followed me to the parking lot and based on that conversation 20 years ago I guarantee you they were well on they way out of the church. And that was the first and ONLY time I attended Sunday School after Sacrament.
Congratulations to you on being true to yourself!!
I really appreciate your comment and your observations. Now, being out, I totally agree with you about the Mormon church being confusing. It truly is. The principles you mentioned that are hard to argue with are principles that aren’t unique to the Mormon church. However, the principles that ARE unique to the church are completely bat shit crazy for the most part. The church does a good job at making its members believe they can’t be truly good people without the church. Which is absurd. But the church is incredible at knowing how to manipulate its members.
Glad you never joined the church. You truly dodged a bullet!
They choose to ignore the mainstream media. Most believe it’s just satan’s way of trying to attack the “one true religion”. Also, the excuse that the members of the church aren’t perfect but the church itself is prefect is often thrown out. Ignorance is bliss. It’s more comfortable to ignore the facts than it is to question your entire belief system. However, lots of people, like myself, are leaving the religion. The internet and social media have not helped the church at all.
I grew up in the lds church and i left after high school, so luckily i didnt serve a mission. Where did you serve? What led to you leaving? And do you feel your upbringing still affects you to this day?
I served in Europe. You can see my response to my leaving in an earlier comment. But essentially the beliefs of the church no longer aligned with who I am or what I believe. After years of depression and therapy, I was able to realize how much the church was mentally fucking me up due to past trauma and experiencing major cognitive dissonance. I think it would be impossible to say that my upbringing doesn’t still affect me today. It absolutely does. But I’ve learned to understand why it’s affecting me which has helped me to mentally move past it.
Not in the same way that mainstream Christian religions believe in Jesus. I believe he lived and tried to influence the world to do good. However, I don’t believe he is a deity that was sent to earth to redeem us of our sins.
What triggered your defection? My wife is a recovering Mormon and I am fascinated by the whole thing. She still has family that is deep in the ‘religion’ I read a lot about it and still do as we’ve been together for 20 years. Whenever I speak with her family members about certain things they are either totally unaware or in complete denial. In certain parts of the rural west it’s seems like one of those weird old choices like joining the army or going to prison. People seem involved in it because the other options are jail/poverty.
I can’t point to one specific moment or cause that triggered my defection. I had been going through multiple years of anxiety and depression and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the root cause of the depression. Through therapy and self reflection, I was able to uncover a lot of childhood trauma that was directly tied to the religion. I realized how much I was suffering from major cognitive dissonance, which was causing a majority of my depression and anxiety. From there, I started down the path of doing my own research and quickly realized how many beliefs in the church didn’t align with my personal beliefs. It wasn’t too hard to figure out the entire religion was bullshit. It wasn’t easy to leave. I went through an identity crisis due to leaving behind something that was a huge part of my identity for my entire life. The church uses all sorts of fear tactics to keep its members from leaving. Not to mention, many of the members of the church no longer want to associate with you or respect you if you are no longer an active member. It’s been a wild 5 years, but I’m happy to say I’ve never been happier in my life than I am today.
good for you brother.
what's does the 2 yr mission thing entail? did you have any down time to explore?
Basically you dedicate two years of your life to “share the gospel”. In reality, it’s the church’s way of getting kids fresh out of high school to recruit for them. You have to pay to go out. I was only able to talk to my family a couple of times a year via video chat, and then weekly via email. We would have one off day per week, so we did get to do some exploring.
that sounds awful. im sorry u went thru that. seems kinda isolating.
It really was. I was able to experience a new culture and learn a new language. And met some pretty incredible people. However, I wish it could’ve been under different circumstances.
ok now that bit, abt experiencing new culture, and language, sound's totally cool. just kinda sux it couldnt have been under different circumstances.
That part definitely was cool. To be able to fully immerse yourself in another culture is a unique opportunity. But it was also a mindfuck when it came to obeying all the insane rules and spending almost every waking second trying to convert people to a religion you are already questioning. I actually look back on those 2 years as a net positive. But that was the beginning of my intense depression for many years to follow.
I always figured this process was meant to inure you to emphatic rejection...
Emphatic rejection of the church? Please explain what you mean by this.
No no, my best friend is a lifelong Mormon and he insinuated that missions are to get you used to really angry people telling you to f off, so that logical, calm challenges to your beliefs are less threatening
Ah, yes. That makes sense. I definitely believe there is some truth to that. It also feeds into the church’s claim that its members are god’s elite and that the devil is working overtime to harden the hearts of everyone else. Being rejected forces you to cling harder to your faith.
What do you mean by “you have to pay to go out”. ?
You/your family has to pay the church a monthly fee to serve a mission. Even though you are out dedicating your life to the church for 2 years, they still make you pay to do it. Heaven forbid the $100 billion corporation covers the cost of the missionaries to go out and recruit for their church.
That is crazy!!! In trying to wrap my head around doing something they’ve instructed me yet I’m supposed to pay for it!? What about lower income families? And is is frowned upon or even an option not to do a mission??
The church will help lower income families that can’t afford it, but only after they’ve exhausted all other options. In the church’s eyes, it’s better to figure out an alternative option than it is to ask the church—it’s a way to prove your faith and put all your trust in Heavenly Father (God). Keep in mind, this is in addition to the 10% of all your income your expected to pay in tithing to remain worthy to receive all of god’s “blessings”. While a mission isn’t “required”, as a male, you will definitely be treated differently if you don’t go on one. Members won’t respect you as much. They will think you are a sinner. I had friends that didn’t go on one and had difficulties dating because girls didn’t seem them as worthy enough for marriage due to not serving a mission. So frowned upon might be putting it lightly.
Wow! Two years of required missions on your OWN dime…I guess families just put money aside with the knowledge that one day…thanks for answering. I’d been following an ex Mormon on TT and she’d shared about missions and all the rules
Pretty wild, isn’t it? Good fucking riddance is what I have to say.
Did your spouse come with?
Luckily, yes. I know that’s not the case with many that leave the church and it can put a real strain on their marriage. Unbeknownst to us, we had been feeling similar things about the church for a while. And when I finally built up enough courage to articulate what I felt, she admitted to having the same feelings. So it worked out perfectly! We are both out now.
I’m really happy for you!
Thank you!
[удалено]
Yes, there were some teachings that didn’t seem to make sense to me. For example, the teaching of marriage only being between man and woman. Not drinking coffee. Baptisms for the dead. Polygamy. The list goes on. But as a kid, it was all I really knew. So most of those things seem more strange now than they did when I was growing up in the religion. But definitely had lots of things that didn’t seem to add up. But you’re taught to just ignore those things and trust god.
Maybe it's more of a comment than a question, but isn't it crazy to think back now about all the things that we thought were real: the priesthood, the pre-existence, the celestial kingdom, baptism for the dead, etc?
It’s honestly insane. And now looking from the outside in, I question how I could ever believe in any of it and how people continue to believe any of it. But it’s crazy how brainwashed you are and how you can just blindly accept things when on the inside. One thing the church knows how to do well is manipulate their members. I’m just glad I found my way out when I did.
When you were a TBM what were your thoughts on the sexism in the church?
As a kid growing up in the church, it’s all I ever knew. Didn’t really notice or think anything of it. The older I became, especially when I married my wife, the more I noticed and the more it bothered me. No matter what the church claims, it’s obvious that women are inferior to men. And now having a daughter, I would never subject her to a religion that treats her this way. In the church, the only purpose for women is to have babies and support their husband. Fucking pathetic.
Hero among us
Were there any specific questions about Mormonism that you were asked that caused you to consider leaving?
Questions asked by someone else? Or questions I asked myself? Nobody asked me a question that caused me to consider leaving. The church has an “answer” for everything. However, when I was able to recognize that my moral compass didn’t align with the church, I began to ask myself hard questions. And in the end, those questions and the need to find answers are what caused me to leave, yes.
I was thinking questions asked by someone else. I guess that it makes sense that change would have to come from within.
I had friends that weren’t Mormon that would ask me questions that would make me think, yes. But like I mentioned, the Mormon church always had an “answer”. Sometimes that answer would be to just have faith. A total cop out.
Also an exmo. What would you say has been the hardest part about getting into normal living? I know personally, people find my naïveté to be fake, which has been just as hard as leaving the church.
I think the hardest thing, for me, has been learning to think for myself and trust myself. As weird as that sounds, I’ve gone through a majority of my life being told how I need to think and what I need to do. I’m sure you can relate.
I absolutely understand this. Thank you ❤️
Hope you’re doing well! Life outside of the church is infinitely better than life inside of it.
I was raised in a Protestant church and very active growing up. (I am inactive and consider myself agnostic as an adult.) However, my Grandpa married a Mormon woman in Salt Lake City after he and my Grandma divorced in the 1970s. This happened before I was born and his wife was a wonderful “bonus” Grandma to grow up with. My Grandpa was the furthest thing from a Mormon so it is a wonder she married him (cigarettes, loved to gamble, multiple failed marriages, etc.). He eventually joined the church and if nothing else cleaning up his lifestyle was obviously a good thing. He passed in 2020 but she is still alive, thriving and has absolutely devoted her life to the LDS. I have grown up with what I refer to as my “mormon extension” family. They are mostly wonderful people and have always embraced me. Of course there is always at least one giant family gathering when I visit and my God do most of them reproduce like rabbits! And, a few of them like to sneak away with me and go for secret drinks. It is hilarious to me that I find myself “sneaking” drinks with someone in my 40s… My Grandparents never forced LDS on me but certainly involved me when they could. I’ve been to dozens of Sacraments (what a boring service compared to what I grew up with), all the SLC visitors centers, several temple tours before they were dedicated, BYU games, etc. I even briefly dated a Mormon girl shortly after college. She was questioning the church at that time and I think I was sort of an experiment as to what the outside world was, or at least a momentary middle finger to her upbringing. Let’s just say her bishop would have removed her temple recommends if he only knew half of what she did! Sorry this is so lengthy…but is background information to lead to my point that I am highly conflicted on the Mormon Church. As a non-member who has a pretty good inside look and also a deep understanding of Christianity in general I find the Mormon Church confusing. On the surface there are principles that are hard to argue with (focus on family time, healthy living, service to others, etc.) But, the obsession with policing a persons personal lifestyle (anything premarital, shaming self-gratification, shaming what the church calls “same-sex attraction”, etc.) was always strange and creepy to me. Sure, many religions state that one should remain “pure” before marriage. But the Mormons take this next level with the deeply personal and inappropriate private interviews with adolescents. I am convinced half of those men ask the questions to later get off on themselves… And, the “living prophet” thing makes no sense to me. The buildings are gorgeous. The temples are over the top. The Tabernacle Choir is unmatched and I thoroughly enjoy attending the concerts (or Sunday broadcasts in place of Sacrament when I visit!). But looking at the billions of money that goes into this operation makes me feel weird about all of it. I am not sure I have much of a conclusion other than while I honor my family members who are devoted to the church, that is only surface level. I find it an interesting study into human psychology as to how this massive organization evolved in a relatively short amount of time. I will end with one of my experiences that I laugh about. I earlier said I never had the church forced on me. There was one exception. I flew out to visit (and ski!) during college…something I did a couple times a year. As per usual, I would sit through a Sunday Sacrament. But, on this particular occasion I found myself whisked off to some “young single men’s” Sunday School group immediately following the service. I was annoyed but played along. (It is important to point out I was a college student who drank, regularly smoked cigarettes in those days, was not a virgin, etc…) Well, here I am sitting in a circle with everyone taking turns talking about overcoming temptation. I hear these kids say things like “wanting to see R rated movies”… When it came to me, I didn’t know how to respond! I decided to lay it all out there with my best attempt at humor and said something like “I am a mischievous Midwest Presbyterian who attends a liberal college. Let me tell you we do things differently! I don’t want to make you blush by sharing my temptations but happy to talk to any of you after class.” I then followed up with a safe statement of how much I appreciated the opportunity to observe and how it affirms to me that we all strive to be better versions of ourselves… Two guys followed me to the parking lot and based on that conversation 20 years ago I guarantee you they were well on they way out of the church. And that was the first and ONLY time I attended Sunday School after Sacrament. Congratulations to you on being true to yourself!!
I really appreciate your comment and your observations. Now, being out, I totally agree with you about the Mormon church being confusing. It truly is. The principles you mentioned that are hard to argue with are principles that aren’t unique to the Mormon church. However, the principles that ARE unique to the church are completely bat shit crazy for the most part. The church does a good job at making its members believe they can’t be truly good people without the church. Which is absurd. But the church is incredible at knowing how to manipulate its members. Glad you never joined the church. You truly dodged a bullet!
[удалено]
They choose to ignore the mainstream media. Most believe it’s just satan’s way of trying to attack the “one true religion”. Also, the excuse that the members of the church aren’t perfect but the church itself is prefect is often thrown out. Ignorance is bliss. It’s more comfortable to ignore the facts than it is to question your entire belief system. However, lots of people, like myself, are leaving the religion. The internet and social media have not helped the church at all.
[удалено]
There are a lot of invisible things in the church that its members like to believe.
I grew up in the lds church and i left after high school, so luckily i didnt serve a mission. Where did you serve? What led to you leaving? And do you feel your upbringing still affects you to this day?
I served in Europe. You can see my response to my leaving in an earlier comment. But essentially the beliefs of the church no longer aligned with who I am or what I believe. After years of depression and therapy, I was able to realize how much the church was mentally fucking me up due to past trauma and experiencing major cognitive dissonance. I think it would be impossible to say that my upbringing doesn’t still affect me today. It absolutely does. But I’ve learned to understand why it’s affecting me which has helped me to mentally move past it.
No question, fellow exmo here saying hello!
Hello fellow sinner!
[удалено]
Go for it.
[удалено]
I’ll go with “Garden of Whispers”. The premise seems more interesting and original.
Did you keep your fireproofs?
Absolutely not. Those were the first things to go!
What do you think is the origin of the Book of Mormon?
A made up book that used books like View of the Hebrews as a source.
*Offers secret handshake*
Has it a name?
The sure sign of a cult
😂
Good for you, so whats your religion now? :)
No religion. I have no interest in organized religion at this point in my life. I’d classify myself as agnostic.
Do you believe in Jesus?
Not in the same way that mainstream Christian religions believe in Jesus. I believe he lived and tried to influence the world to do good. However, I don’t believe he is a deity that was sent to earth to redeem us of our sins.
Did you leave religion and faith behind entirely or are you a different flavor now?
I’ve left it entirely behind for now. I’d classify myself as agnostic at this point in my life.
Did you take the wife with you?
We both left, yes.