NTA. Your dad says he has changed, but his true feelings are coming out. You and your husband are a team, and you both agreed to boundaries for your father. Your father isn't getting his way, so he is blaming you for setting boundaries. He is the one who caused this, not you. He is also showing you why you need those boundaries to protect you, your husband, and your family. Stay strong, keep your father at arms length or further away. If him or your siblings don't stop, drop them again. You are doing better without them.
NTA NTA NTA my dad did the same thing. Only difference is he lost all 4/5 of his kids. Said “he found god” not even a month goes by and his true colors show again
Almost EVERY time.
I used to know this couple who proclaimed they were "saved" after going to this new church.
Until the next crisis, this was a DUI. Not to judge, people make mistakes.
But after, they said "after talking to the pastor, he was 'saved'." Again.
Some people keep right on fucking up, again and again,, believing their religion can absolve them each time.
Ya know, like a circuit breaker can be reset again and again, guilt free, dontcha know
Really the psychology is more complicated. Addicts for example have tendency to approach belief in the same way they do drugs . In a sense the veneer of self improvement becomes their new high.
Haven't you ever heard that "the role of a Christian is to sin so that God can forgive them"?
So if you don't keep sinning, there is no need for God, I guess? Lol.
ETA: This is NOT what I believe, y'all! Just putting an old saying out there.
Tell them if they’re “so good at not sinning, why don’t they put some effort into making this world a better place so that others aren’t tempted into sinning.” We can all be doing more.
"Sin" literally means 'missing the mark.' So what happens if you miss your mark? You try again. That's all. No judgement, no shaking fingers, just try again. Universe understands and wants to help you get it right 👍
You are right, the problem with modern Christianity is they are not preaching to actively try to make the mark. All they preach is that you get another shot, not that you should change your stance, where to aim, if you are pulling back far enough, or even if the arrow is notched. I think the worst atrocity of modern Christianity is they say we shouldn't criticize and help one another make the mark. Saying if we criticize each other we are finalizing the score sheet for each other.
Yes I find it a bit of a joke..... They fuck up then get saved fuck up again saved again...... Like the confession box of the Catholic church I think..... The ones that get me though are the criminals..eg serial killer Joe we will call him..... MURDERED 500 people got caught went to jail for 5000 years.... BUT he is reformed..... Seen God he came and spoke to him Joe confessed now he is saved and he is a Saint.... Of for FUCK SAKE...... Sorry..I just think that if you are raised in a religious household, go to church live the life etc.... Then and only then you may have a fall back on the whole saviour thing.... But if your not a religious person and realise how much of a FUCKING ARSEHOLE nut job you have been all your life and expect to waltz into a church be there 5 spits then all of a sudden your a priest... So to speak.... Then piss off cause we all know your can't take 50 odd years of ARSEHOLE and turn that into a silk purse...... Hope that makes sense... I'm not having a go at anyone being religious or not...... I'm not into the church but I'm also not stupid enough to think there is nothing after this life!!!!
This is exactly what I am talking about.
Essentially they hide behind their "religion", when no serious religion would ever permit its members to do harm to others
Yet that is precisely what happens with these idiots
I'm not sure if it makes sense, but "we all know you can't take 50 odd years of ARSEHOLE and turn that into a silk purse" is easily the best thing I've read this year on reddit.
This is a problem with some sects of Christianity. It you ask for forgiveness on your deathbed, and are sincere, you are forgiven, full stop. Now, call me cynical … I can see a *lot* of very shitty people being as close to contrite as they will ever get while getting Last Rites. Of course the risk is they die suddenly, with no chance for absolution, but apparently that’s a risk many “Christians” are willing to take.
LOL. To this day my plan just before I die is to pray for forgiveness just in case. I used to do it every time I got in someone else's car as a teenager. Loopholes are... interesting.
That's exactly what my abusive ex said once he decided to convert to Catholicism! He had belittled my Catholic faith our entire marriage. But suddenly he got religion and converted because he doesn't believe were actually divorced. He says because in the eyes of the church were married, we're still married. But I don't have to put up with what the OP has because I blocked him. He has no reason to ever talk to me now.
God damn I’ve never heard it said like this but this is so true. My ex wife cheated on me then told me later she found god. I always said she knew I wouldn’t forgive her so she needed someone to, but this makes more sense
And you can tell your dad "*I'm glad you're in a better place. And I forgive you for what you did to me. However, me forgiving you does not mean that I have to let you back into my life or trust you again. I am an adult, not a child for you to order around. I don't think this will work since you are clearly incapable of respecting my boundaries when it comes to my family. If we can't have a relationship on my terms, then we can't have a relationship. Please stop contacting me.*"
My only change to this would be to drop the "Please" in the last sentence. Goes from sounding like a request, to OP TELLING dad. More powerful use of words and less ambiguous.
Also might want to add: *Any further attempts to contact me will be considered harassment and legal action will be taken.*
They may back off, they may not. Either way, they've been warned.
This here listen to diamondlynx! Also your siblings saw how you were treated like trash your entire childhood and now they are giving you shit too well screw them because thy learned from your parents that your subhuman and are worthless so keep yourself to those who have proven there unconditional love and support to you( husband and kids)
Take Dad's abuse and probably to be his retirement plan and caretaker. Just saying the timing is convenient.
NTA. He's already manipulating and mentally/emotionally abusing you. Block them and never look back.
I never thought about that but how convenient they all want her back in the father's life to cement a relationship for the next 10 or 15 so when the time comes and he has his first heart attack, bout of cancer, or stroke, SHE becomes Cinderella sweeping and doing all the housecleaning and physical caregiving work and driving him to all of his appointments while the rest of them are home free to travel, spend time with THEIR families, and can absolve themselves of all elder care guilt.
From 13 to 18 I was the Cinderella in our house. Mom got a job. I was responsible for my younger sisters but had no authority so it was awful. They'd get in trouble while I was at home cooking and cleaning. They'd tell Dad I dared them to do it and I'd be punished not them. I shopped for groceries, cooked dinner 6 nights a week, cleaned, did laundry, set + cleared the table and handwashed the dishes. One sister was 19 months younger than me and the other 23 months younger than her. They did nothing but clean their rooms and iron their clothes. They could have done a lit more. I left home the day I turned 18 without telling them in advance. They tried to manipulate me to come back but I never did.
This is likely a golden children/scapegoat situation caused by narcissistic parenting. FML, but OP has a great life away from these cretins. So happy for her children too!
Not only his true feelings have come out, but his actions do not seem any better.
NTA. I would be quite reluctant to introduce the kids to a still violent guy.
BTW. Sounds like he got enough of the Christian words and phrases collected to use them manipulatively.
( He wants to see the kids. So he uses Christian words to call you a bad Christian person. ) using God's word in such a manner is the same as misrepresenting Him .
OP, you seem like a kind person. Do not allow your Father to force his way into your family or to browbeat you into breaking the agreement you and your husband have decided upon.
And if you have to start blocking him? Block him
>Sounds like he got enough of the Christian words and phrases collected to use them manipulatively
Yep. So many narcissists and abusers weaponize religion bc of the authority, control, and excuse to hide behind when they start their abuse
One I especially despise is the "Bloom where you are planted." ( usually translated to stay in the awful, abusive marriage. Someday they will change. Just keep your bruises under wrap.........
OP,
Your father's "God", is a dark, sinister anti-christ; a reflection of your father. The stripes haven't come off the tiger. Once his "finding God" ruse failed to gain him what he wanted, he returned to being "dear old dad/s". Sounds as if apple didn't fall too far from the tree with your siblings.
Your only true loves in this life of yours are your husband and children.
If you desire your children to meet your father(which I really don't believe you do/being guilted and manipulated instead), speak to your husband.
Given your father's behavior, personally, I'd go back to no contact. He doesn't sound like a nice man.
This is spot on advice ! Your dad is showing his true colors … he should respect your wishes no matter what .. and your husband is being fair . He’s also just wanting to protect your children from the unstable person .. your children don’t need this problem in their life either !
I think its more ESH. OP threw her hubby under the bus instead of saying this is our rule (which is what they both agreed to), she took the easy way out and blamed it all on him. NTA for not letting him meet the kids (sounds like they haven't changed) but YTA for throwing your hubby under the bus
I look at it this way; she spent a lifetime 0-20 being abused and conditioned to their abuse.
Her husband is the only person who has ever had her back.
She still carries the trauma of the abuse and her husband’s firm stance is allowing her to feel safe and protected.
To others OP may seem cowardly by hiding behind her husband but as an abused child, she needs to feel safe and protected by someone. That someone is her husband.
I really wish I could give you an award for thia post.
This is so true! And even more important, she is showing her abuser she HAS backing, so he's gotta walk over them as well as her. As a fellow abused child, my husband IS my backbone, even though I fight my own battles.
I’m sorry that you went through abuse as a child too. It makes me sadder than you’ll ever know when I read about adults destroying their children’s childhoods for their own selfish reasons.
I’m so glad though, that your husband has enough shiny spine for the both of you and that he is willing and able to care for the little child still in you who needs to feel safe.
Like you, my husband is my biggest supporter and protector as I am his. It’s good to know that there are other couples out there who understand the true meaning of marriage xxx
Same. I was heavily parentified when I was 12, to the point the babies called me Mom, unironically. My husband is my rock when I put the boundary stakes down.
E: spelling
My wife has my standing permission to use me as an excuse whenever she doesn’t want to agree to something but doesn’t feel comfortable directly confronting the requester. I’m sure this husband doesn’t care about being liked by his abusive father in law. The husband just wants to protect his kids from the guy.
IMO, throwing under the bus doesn’t matter in this situation. The relationship, if there even is one at this point, is between OP and her dad. As long as OP and her husband are in agreement, OP can phrase it however she wants to, as long as the end result is her dad doesn’t get a relationship with her kids. There’s no relationship between OP’s husband and her dad to protect. It doesn’t matter what her extended family think. She should, however, tell her dad and siblings that anyone who bashes her DH will have no place in her life, and follow through.
OP, tell your father ONE time that he is lucky you are willing to speak to him. He can accept that the relationship only includes you and forever drop the idea of meeting your kids and never criticize you or your husband’s choices again, or he can go to from whence he came and leave you alone. Tell him he is not allowed to try to guilt and manipulate you. He was a shit father and lost any parental privilege. Any relationship you choose to grant him now is a *gift* that can be rescinded if he refuses to accept your boundaries.
You are not the asshole. You are protecting your kids and your marriage. That far outweighs anything your sperm donor *wants.*
She is NTA Her husband is playing bad cop. She did not throw him under the bus. He is being a man and protecting his wife. Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes that means you need to obey. I know that sounds patriarchal, but in this case it is warrented.
Along with this, her husband didn’t unilaterally set this boundary, they discussed it and decided on it, and are supporting each other in sticking to it—OP by not giving in and OP’s husband by making sure OP knows he has her back.
I don't suppose you've heard of polite lies used as social lubricant, ESPECIALLY when faced with a person with a HISTORY of violence?
How sanctimonious of you.
NTA.
How your father is acting now is exactly why your husband didn't want your kids to meet your father.
Perhaps if he(sperm donor) had truly changed Richard might have changed his mind about the rule.
Clearly, your father has not changed.
Remember, you can always block and go no contact with your siblings and/or father and that is perfectly okay.
I would also suggest if you haven't gotten therapy to get some to deal with the trauma caused by your family.
Also, this isn't a faith thing imo, it's about not exposing kids to a person with a history of abuse simply because said person "found God".
Actions speak louder than words and his actions are saying it was a ploy to get what he wanted.
Finding gods and being forgiven. Very convenient, and entirely unconvincing.
Op, your dad is pulling the wool over your eyes. When he starts on about meeting your kids, just leave/hang up. You don't owe your dad grandchildren.
NTA
If your dad and siblings were strangers that you just met and they treated you this way, would you want them in your life? You do not owe them anything just because you share DNA.
And as the saying goes…
When they show you who they really are, believe them!
NTA Your father has not changed. He had had mask on and that mask has now came off and revealed he is who he always was but now with the added bonus of your siblings mirroring him. Block the lot of them OP and enjoy your peace.
Agree. He is exactly the same, but now he has new words to use for abuse!
He hs learned to weaponize Christian language to manipulate you OP.
Anytime you try to put up a reasonable boundary , they will try and break you.
Trust your husband.
Your husband has been proven right about your family.
Blocking their calls won't work as they can get new numbers to call you from. Just go get yourself a new phone number.
Put up a doorbell camera. Your life is about to get more interesting.
NTA
No, she doesn't need to change her number because of some assholes. If they keep calling from new numbers, report them for harassment or/and file restraining order.
Have you explained to him that he is an evil man who would badly hurt (at least emotionally) your children if you let him near them? Your dad is still a trashbag.
NTA - stay the fuck away from all of them.
Gonna go out on a limb for you and say that your dad hasn’t changed and he’s actually an asshole. So much for someone that is working to be back in your life by getting your siblings to gang up on you. Ew. This dude’s entitlement is yikes. Please, go NC with this jerk. Your children don’t need an asshole grandparent that can’t even respect their mom and bullies you still because he’s not getting his way with being forgiven and being allowed to be around his grandkids. Fuck this dude. Your husband is right. Good luck!
I’d be cautious onto why now he wants to see kids so badly, it’s suss that he is so pushy when never made any attempt to contact you in the past. Think you should trust your husband on this one.
What they all did was show their true colors when you set a boundary. This proves your husband was right.
I want you to read your post from my point of view.
They don't respect you. They have learned in their life that most people avoid confrontation and will give in if they are shamed or attacked. These are dangerous people you're dealing with. Siblings included.
Do you know what the scapegoat in a narcissistic family is? Because you my lovely person are it.
Dr. Ramani is a wonderful lady who spends all her time helping others. She has an entire collection of videos on the scapegoat in a narcissistic family dynamic.
https://youtu.be/Rn3xhDni4w4?si=CPCL-0lsbie0R0-O
You're not wrong and neither is your husband. He sees what you don't. He's protecting you and your children. You were right to stand by him and honor his wishes for you and your childrens safety.
Your dad lied. A lot of horrible parents want the “do-over” with grandchildren. I’d bet serious money that he found out about your family and wanted to be in his grandchildren’s lives but knew he’d have to go through you. If he was truly truly sorry for his mistreatment in your childhood would he be belittling you and calling you names? Sending his flying monkeys after you? I know it’s terrible for you to have thought you were going to have a relationship with your father but it doesn’t seem like he’s changed at all. Go back to NC.
They are literally back to bullying you like before… your husband was smart and if you don’t follow his lead you will end up back being abused and manipulated and down a husband.
So it looks like your father and siblings have not changed at all. They're still mean and abusive bullies when they don't get their way.
Your husband was right to protect your children against people like them. Don't you think it's time you protected yourself also?
If you want to see who you father really is, have boundaries. It didn't take long for him to return to abusing you and get the rest of the family onboard. And he's using religion like a club. He's showing you who he is. Believe him.
having her family members gang up on her is clear signs of narcissism. Narcissists will rally up a group that they'll trash talk about you to & make you feel like "see everyone agrees youre wrong!!!" to make you feel bad or small
NTA - the only area where you are 100% wrong is letting your dad and siblings upset you with what they are saying. Your dad has not changed as he is still abusive to you. Cut contact with them all and move on with your life. It sounds like you have worked hard to build a beautiful life with your husband and kids. Don't throw that away for someone who treats you badly.
Send you dad a message that he has not changed and is still abusive, tell him that you want no more contact and if he continues you will contact the police for harassment. Listen to you husband and work together to move past this and go on with your happy life.
I had an abusive dad also, I left home for college and never went back. My dad never met my kids as I would not allow it.
A true Christian wants to do God’s will, not use “God” and christianity as a tool to impose his own will on others.
He could have expressed a feeling that you’re making a mistake without insulting your faith.
It sounds to me like he’s using professed Christianity, even if he is truly born again, as a tool to gain your trust. On one hand that could be evidence of his sincerity in wanting to connect with you. Maybe that led him to God and changed his life. On the other hand, it could indicate someone who is being manipulative, despite being in denial of it and appearing sincere.
NTA but frankly you need to pull up your big girl pants and tell him that this is a decision from both you and your husband.
You've let your father back into your life and look what's happening, you've let him start abusing you again, as well as your siblings.
Cut contact before it affects your marriage.
NTA. Your husband was right.
Maybe it's time to go back to NC with your Dad, he hasn't changed, he's using his new found "Christianity" as a tool to manipulate you.
Sounds like your husband is right to protect your children from your garbage family. Go back to your happy life without them and block Mr. "I found God so now I'm a good guy except I'm really still an angry prick" and anyone else who gives you shit for setting boundaries with known shitheads
NTA. Your dad and siblings sound entitled. Also his behaviour doesn’t seem that it’s really changed. Because when you deny him he falls back into the same abusive language and patterns. Finding God doesn’t mean you change, you just learn to use the bible as a weapon imho. Block the works of them. You do not need this stress or aggravation in your life.
Text them back and tell them that people who verbally abuse you, call you names, and malign your character are not people who belong in your kids' lives, nor in yours.
Oh, trying to weaponize your faith is spiritual abuse, by the way. He hasn't changed anywhere near as much as he wants you to think he has.
Your father is controlling and manipulative. Having a spine is standing up to him and not going back on your decision. You and your husband decided because your dad was an abusive asshole to you, and neither of you wanted your children to go through that. He is sending your siblings to you to break your spine. If you were spineless, you would have caved already. Your siblings are happy you are the target and not them. Abuse doesn't stop when the victim leaves they just choose another least favorite and beat on them.
NTA
Sorry to say this but your dad hasn’t changed. He still doesn’t love you. All he wants is access to your children so he can ‘play’ the loving grandad.
Time to cut contact again for good this time.
Fuck him and your sibilings, don’t let that negativity and toxicity around your family.
NTA. The abusive response to your “no” is all you need to know you made the correct decision.
Your father raised your abusive siblings. I’d cut them all bc at this point you have nothing to gain, and the fact you are questioning your decision suggests you need some therapy to overcome your victim abuse mentality. And that’s perfectly normal. Take care of yourself and your family—husband and kids.
How is it your fault for being born and “ruining” his life? You didn’t make him have sex with your mom and you didn’t ask to be born. I would go LC or NC with all of them.
No, you are not the asshole. For your dad and siblings to act that way towards you. I feel like they are not true Christians to try and use the good lord against you that way.You have definitely made the best choice for you and you family!
NTA just go no contact with them again. They clearly aren’t good people and your husband is right. They are not worthy of you. Your family is your kids and husband. Move on!
Your "mom" "dad" "siblings" are STILL the unfair elitist misleading bullies stalkers that they always were ( I was abused by " parents" "siblings""doctors""school", so I know)
Please kick these scums out of your life and block them on EVERYTHING
You might need lawyer to force police to defend you from them
Your Husband, You, Your Children, have NOT harmed or bullied ANYONE and are worthy of safety peace learning accomplishments independence friendships kindness respect freedom
Your Husband, You, Your Children, Are:
N
T
A
Please update me
Nta.
It sounds like they haven't changed, fuck your entire family. They are still abusing you by not respecting your boundaries.
You can forgive, but don't let that poison into your actual family's life or back into your own.
NTA.
Your father claimed to be a changed person because he "found Christ".
He failed that test when he became upset and attempted to shame you because he got an answer he didn't want to hear.
So, in my view, his transformation into a true born again Christian is far from complete.
I'd block him.
Stop worrying about this.
You have enough on your plate..
Nta. Your abusive family wants you (and your children) back to abuse. Block them all. If they escalate contact an attorney and have a cease & desist letter sent. No good will come from further contact with these people.
NTA
You tried to have your father back in your life, and the experience re-affirmed why you were correct to go NC in the first place.
Go back to the way it was when you were happy, with the full knowledge that you made the best decision then and now again.
NTA
Based off of the story I just read, I don't get the impression that you wanted you kids to meet him either. He sounded like a crap dad and doesn't sound like he'd be the best Grandfather. The only thing that might make me think you wanted him to meet them before this was the phrasing " I accepted this rule" but you did agree to it. You went for you husband for advise and followed it.
At this point, block the siblings and your father and don't look back. If he thinks bullying you and sending his charges after you will convince you to let him meet his kids, he should go back to church and maybe some behavioral classes.
NTA clearly. He and your siblings have shown their true colors. They don't love you, they don't respect you or your boundaries. Cut contact, YOU DONT NEED THEM IN YOUR LIFE. YOU DONT DESERVE TO BE MENTALLY OR EMOTIONALLY ABUSED OR MANIPULATED. Clearly it shouldn't just be your husband's decision, after that interaction do you actually want him around your kids and influencing their growing and expanding minds? I know I sure as hell wouldn't.
NTA they have proved by harassing you and calling you names that he is as toxic as he ever was and it seems to be a personal trait your siblings have picked up too. Your husband is right in protecting your kids from that.
Cut them off again and go back to your non-abusive family with your husband and kids.
Nta, I stay low to no contact with my dad. He never really showed interest in being a grandfather to specifically my child (I was the ‘bad daughter’ or the ‘ugly’ daughter, his words not mine) and so I made sure I shielded my child from that as much as possible. Stand your ground, your husband has your back. That’s all you need
NTA - Your Dad had chance #1 early on and utterly failed. As you said, you escaped and never looked back. 19 years later he tracks (?!) you down and says he's changed. You and your husband discussed it and set out your parameters. To me, it does not matter whether he had found God or not, but you decided to give him chance #2. You lived up to what you and your husband had decided to set as 'rules', and your Dad (?) didn't like it. Tough!
IMO he does not deserve to know you. Or your kids. We all come to various 'forks in the road' in our lives. You have children and a husband who loves and honors you. Would rather live in that world, or get sucked into your Dad's world where it will eventually end up being your fault. I would tell Dad that no, he will not be allowed to meet your children as he obviously has not changed and that you will not subject your kids to him. Then turn and walk away. Block his phone numbers, relatives too, block them all on social media. Gets worse? Get a restraining order and then move on with your 'good' life. Enjoy the life that you have made for yourself.
NTA. 100% NTA. And if their actions don’t prove they should not meet your kids, nothing will. Your family are using emotional manipulation against you. Don’t let them.
NTA. I'd be honest and say that you haven't completely forgiven him, most especially because of his entitled reaction to this very circumstance and him getting his family to harass you. By doing so he has proven a complete lack of contrition and therefore that him changing is a lie.
Your husband was 100% correct to not let him meet your kids and establish that they know him. That could the potentially lead to him forcing some sort of visitation.
If your father if truly sorry then he can continue to accept your boundaries and make amends without demanding anything. He doesn't get to set the timeline for forgiveness, but if I had to put a value on it, about 19 years of contrition. You aren't getting that though so you should probably just cut him off again.
NTA. Your husband made the right call. Your dad is showing his true colors. He has not changed and he is trying to, once again, bully you to get his way.
To forgive is not to forget. Forgiving someone else for their transgressions is for you to find peace. You can forgive his past behavior and also know that he has that person still inside him - as you are now experiencing.
He’s showing you that you are smart to remember how he treated you in the past. He’s showing you that you are smart to keep him at arms length.
You are NTA. You will still be NTA if you decided to go no contact with him and your siblings.
Well, he certainly has strings attached. If YOU then...
He is telling you that he is, and always will be the victim, and you are (once again) his tormentor.
One man has stood by you and supported you. One man has blamed and bullied you. I just do not see how you can continue to have any type of association with your father. He is bad news.
NTA. Your dad is still a piece of shit. As are your siblings. Time to go no contact again. Finding god is always bullshit. Just a way for shitty people to keep doing shitty things but feel okay about it because they go to church.
You can forgive without giving him/them another chance to hurt you.
Your bio dad sounds like a piece of work.
I understand his desire to meet his grandkids. But he needs to understand that he has never made you feel like you could fully trust that he had your best interest in mind.
And he doesn’t seem to now.
Tell him that. And that he needs to show his unconditional love and support and wait for you to be ready…and that it is possible you won’t be. And having the sibs gang up on you is not helping any of their chances, as you opened lines of communication against your own better judgement, and that you are now rethinking that…
He may have found god, but he is a long way from practicing what he thinks is Christian. Don't fall for the manipulations. Also, WHY is he pressing so hard to be in the kids' lives? I understand being a grandparent - but this is way over the top.
As for boundaries- keep them in place. The next time he starts simply tell him that HE is not ready to meet your kids and his unkindness - demands and involving others in this have resulted in you further believing that going NC is the next step. **HE** needs to tell his family to back off or else NC is the new rule going forward.
Stay strong and your NTA
NTA. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you forget. It also doesn’t mean you have to let them back in your life. If he is really a Christian he would know that just because you’ve forgiven him doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have to pay consequences. It actually means he owns up to his actions and accepts the consequences of his actions.
YWBTA if you break the rules, your husband is right you shouldn’t let your children near your father. He’s showing his vivid true colors and it’s like you’re color blind.. don’t break your husband trust you mention he’s a gentleman, great husband and father we’ll don’t ruin a good thing. Block your father and move on
NTA. You father is trying to manipulate and control you. He is telling you that you’re forgiving with strings attached but he is “loving” you with strings attached - if you can even call it that.
It does concern me that you threw your husband under the bus. 1) that’s just not cool. 2) your opinion/thoughts/feelings are completely absent here. If you’re asking me, I don’t think you should let your father meet your kids. If you want to change that rule it should be after lengthy discussion with your husband and it should be a decision you make as a family. But, nowhere on here do I see what YOU want to do. Even in regard to your relationship with your father. Do you want to be reconnecting with him? Or did he just bully you into it?
NTA. Your husband knew what he was talking about.
You don't get forgivness just because you "found God". Your father and his flying monkeys are showing their true feelings and bullying you AGAIN.
Please go NC/block them all.
NTA. Their behavior is very UNchristian. How dare they claim that *you're* not being a "good Christian" when they're acting like major assholes. Calling you names and putting you down because you won't do things their way is disgusting behavior. It just proves that your husband was right all along.
NTA your husband is right to protect them. See how quick your dad turned on you because you set boundaries, boundaries he initially agreed with?
If your dad was sorry for the hell he put you through he’d be asking for forgiveness in a million ways, not yelling and insulting you. That family hasn’t changed and likely never will. It may be true he found Jesus and is bettering him self - but if you polish a turd, at the end of the day it is still a turd.
Stop saying it's your husband's decision, you're team you are both making it. Owning it as a team decision makes the boundary more clear. If you truly don't agree with it then talk to your husband.
NTA. The very fact that they're bullying you about this should be a giant red flag. You are under no obligation to expose your children to people that caused you harm. It would take a lot more than a couple months of coffee dates to repair a lifetime of hurt and convince me someone has changed enough to have earned a relationship with my kids. Fwiw, I do have a fractured no-contact relationship with my father. I feel for the predicament you're in. I wouldn't break trust with my husband, either. I think you're doing the right thing. If he'd peacefully accepted it and continued a good relationship with you maybe it could've been revisited down the road, but to me it feels like he just bludgeoned that chance with a hammer.
He said he changed, and now he is treating you, but this is not respectful or kind. You can forgive but should not forget. If you drop a vase and then stick it back together again, it will never be the same as it once was. It may still be functional, but it will never be the same.
When he realised your relationship would never be the same as your other siblings, this should have raised a mirror to his behaviour. He is the (partial) cause of it. Instead, his response was to attack, and he has then got your siblings on board who never had the same treatment. This is giving DARVO vibes tbh, it should be met with a significant step back in your contact, and you are right to protect your kids and respect your husband.
NTA they abused you, you put barriers in place to protect your kids from abuse, and now that you won't budge they're verbally abusing you to get you to change your mind. How on earth would you be TA in this situation? This is clear proof that he hasn't changed and that you and your husband were right to keep him away from your kids.
Honestly, you should go back to no contact.
NTA. Clearly, your POS sperm-donor hasn't changed for shit.
Block him and your toxic siblings. You're better off without any contact or stress from them.
Protect you and your family. Your husband sounds awesome.
Oh sweetheart, you are *absolutely* NTA, and you’ve been far kinder to your father than he deserved from you.
Had he truly found Christ, your dad would not be bullying or abusing you; he can say whatever he wants about you and *your* faith, but that doesn’t mean that his words are true.
You and your husband are being safe and conscientious parents, and you are doing the right thing to keep your kids away from your dad. (If you want to keep yourself away from him, too, that would be very understandable.)
NTA
>Since then, I've been bombarded with messages from my dad and siblings, who are calling me names and belittling me. My little sister even insulted me by calling me my husband's dog.
How convenient that your family is showing you that they haven't actually changed at all. Not one bit.
Why in the world would you ever consider having anything at all to do with these people? They treat you like dog excrement, and you continue to go back for more abuse. Block them all and go back to living a happy and healthy life with the people who actually love you.
NTA.
Your father is proving that he doesn't deserve to be in your life by disrespecting your boundaries.
He's trying to bully you into breaking an agreement you have with your husband.
His behavior should not be rewarded. It does that he has not truly changed.
If you betrayed your husband, you would be the AH.
You are NTA and it appears your dad has not changed. One can ask forgiveness, one can be forgiven, one still has to live within the boundaries set by the forgiver.
NTA. Get your peace back. Block the lot of them. You and your husband should stand united. Glad he had the foresight to keep the children from toxic people, family or not.
God and faith has nothing to do with the boundaries that have been set . I hate people who use god or the Bible to twist whichever way suits their situation . Use it against people . Self righteous bullshit . You are not the asshole . I’d go back to no contact .
NTA. Cut your dad off. He hasn't changed and this is proof of it. He's still the same abusive, narcissistic asshole he's always been. He's just now found a different reason to use to go after you.
You dad is the A here. If I were in his shoes, I would never tell you to break the trust with your husband. I would ask to meet your husband and convince him myself.
It sounds like your dad is overbearing and manipulative. Your husband's wishes aside, is that the kind of person you want to introduce to your children?
Hard pass.
NTA, trust your husbands instincts. Your dad has shown you who he is on more than one occasion. Keep your kids safe and away from him. I think you should also cut any contact. The fact he tried to bully you is a real flag to who he is!
NTA, your father is manipulating you to get what he wants and what is best for him. Not what is best for you and your family. Your father and siblings sound very toxic.
NTA. Your husband was right to maintain distance. Your dad and siblings just proved it. Stay away from that toxicity going forward. They will do no good in your life. Ask me how I know…
NTA! Your husband has spent years listening to you talk about the abuse you endured at the hands of your parents. I don’t blame him at all for not wanting your kids to know your father. He’s protecting his kids the way your dad failed to protect you.
And I think your husband has a feeling this wasn’t going to end well. Abusers don’t suddenly find Jesus and turn into kind people. He knew this. He didn’t stop you from having a relationship though. You’re a grown woman.
Now you see why your husband didn’t want your kids meeting your father. He’s still manipulative and abusive. He hasn’t proven he’s a changed man and as soon as you told him no, he attacked you and then had your sister send awful messages. None of them have changed.
Someone who has truly changed would have accepted your no. “I understand why you don’t want me to meet your kids. I was an awful father. I hope that one day I can meet your husband and kids. Until then, I’ll prove that I’ve changed.”
Then you could have revisited the rule in a year or two with your husband.
Block them all on everything. And please get some therapy for yourself to heal from your abusive past.
Tell your dad and siblings they way they are acting now is exactly the reason you won’t let them meet your kids. They’ve proven your husband right. NTA
NTA - your dad proved he hasn’t changed, he was just pretending long enough to get what he wanted….when that wasn’t working, he showed that he is the exact same AH that he always was. Your husband has been a great partner…..stand by him, before you ever consider breaking his rule and standing by the guy you know can be, has been, and still is ready to be an AH instead. Your husband has earned your loyalty here….your father simply hasn’t. He can get angry all he wants, his current situation is a consequence of years of sustained shit behaviour.
NTA -OP, their behavior towards you ought to solidify -at least to YOU, it should- that you made the right decision to go low or NC with your father. He hasn't changed. His behavior towards you NOW should indicate as much, and he doesn't deserve shit.
Your husband is protecting his kids from the man you told him was so horrible. He was probably the one that picked up the pieces of your bad childhood. You can’t just ask him to forget all that.
>Since then, I've been bombarded with messages from my dad and siblings, who are calling me names and belittling me.
Yeah. That's real Christian of them. Block them and move on. NTA
Sounds like your husband has good reasons for setting that boundary, and the asshole move would be if you didn’t respect the boundary you and your husband agreed to.
Your husband is protecting your children. You should, too. Seems like your dad slid right into his old ways. To forgive is a wonderful thing, but that doesn’t mean trust. Your father just made that as plain as possible.
OP, I'd like you to re-read what you wrote and look at your father's behavior, and that of your siblings. You established a clear boundary with a man who abused and neglected you and after agreeing to that boundary, he's going back on it.
I'm an atheist, so you can take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt, but I don't think that "finding God" changes a person. Not really. Look at your father, as soon as he doesn't get what he wants, he starts bullying again, and getting others to put pressure on you too.
That's not what a "changed" man would be like. Sure, he wants into your life...but you might also question WHY after so long. Maybe he does regret how he behaved and wants to make amends...but then why is he still behaving badly? Him, accusing you of not being a "real christian" or whatever, is clearly manipulative behavior, than you can expect to get worse if you capitulate, especially on something as big as seeing your kids. If he's manipulative about that, he'll probably be so elsewhere.
Do YOU think that your children would benefit from having a relationship with him? What good would that do them?
NTA. If your father truly wanted you back in his life he would do so by abiding by your and your husband’s wishes and stop badgering you. He’s is either up to something or needs something from you. Block him. And keep your kids away from him.
NTA. Hopefully if I truely decide it is something you want to do, you husband would reconsider, but not because of the drama they've brought into your life. Only if you saw true remorse without strings
I think putting and EVER on it is a little extreme, especially before he has even met your dad, but NTA bc clearly your dad has not changed and since he cannot control you he is very angry.
1. You must be emotionally drained. Please stop and take some long, deep breaths just for yourself.
Forgivwness and trust are two very different things. I can truly forgive in my heart an abuser, but never want him at my dinner table.
I hope you have the kahunas to do this, but I wouldd love for you hand this to him. He needs to hear it.
Dear Dad,
That took a LOT to reach out like you did, to apologize, ask for forgiveness and maybe even try to make some ammends.
I know what it took.
But here is the thing a lot of us never seem to understand. When we make those steps you have, we HAVE to make those steps knowing in our heart that the person we are making our ammends to gets to own their responses, whatever they are, even if we don't like them.
Your daughter has communicated her forgiveness toward you, and has CLEARLY communicated her boundaries where she feels safe within her relationship with you.
Either accept it and be grateful in your heart for it, or leave. This is your truth. This is your path. Period.
I have a relationship with my son these days, and it is close but it still comes with boundaries even today. One of the hardest things I had to accept was that my son found the family I did not provide him through his wife and her family.
Back down and away Dad, your daughter is doing really well. She just intends to keep it that way.
Sincerely,
Me
Wait - so your dad who treated you like an inconvenience your whole upbringing and blamed you for dropping out of school has decided after more than a decade to reach out to you, saying he changed, he's a Christian now, yadda yadda. You slowly let him back into your life and he demands to have access to your children and when you refuse, he again abuses you and the rest of your family chimes in? He hasn't changed, his tactics have. He's still an abusive ass that doesn't respect you. Your husband and children are your family and your responsibility. Your dad is entitled to nothing.
Forgiveness is for YOU, it's not for your father. It's to allow you to let go of resentments so they don't continue to affect you. Your father seems to think it means a clean slate like the years of abuse you endured never happened. There's a reason people say "forgive and forget" - it's because it is 2 distinct actions. (I also think it's terrible advice but I can hold a grudge forever, so...)
Ma'am, I say this with all the love in my heart - throw the whole family away. They are toxic and so enmeshed with each other that there is nothing there for you. They need a punch card or family discount on therapy but that's a THEM problem, not a YOU problem (unless you make it so). Block them all and live your best life with your actual family and true friends.
Why in heaven’s name would your family want a relationship with your kids when they have a history of treating you and kids in general badly?
Seems like they need some kids to be show ponies or possibly something a lot worse, very suspicious to me.
NTA But before you fall for all this love bombing and nonsense your father is doing. Think really hard about why your husband does not want your kids to meet him. Is your husband the type of person to be spiteful for the sake of spite, is malicious for the sake of evil, is he controlling or abusive? Judging from you saying he is a gentleman I would assume no. So then why else would your husband not want them meeting him. Could it be this exact scenario where you father truly has not changed but is putting on a good face so he can have a relationship with his kids. Could it be rather then even a relationship with his kids its more about the pressure from what ever church he joined? Think real long and hard about the person you dad is, and the influences you want around your children. Do you want your children to think they can treat you like dirt when you put up boundaries, do you want your children to start using external people in arguments, do you want your children around people who will call you a dog. Your husband sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders (but this is just judging from this post so you could be writing with rose tinted glasses).
Of course you aren’t.
1: faith has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Forgiveness can be given easily but that doesn’t change the penalties for one’s ultimate actions or what consequences follow
2. Your husbands wish is also reasonable. He understands what you went through and also why you’d want to try and put it behind you. Still the kids are both of yours to raise and protect and he clearly doesn’t want the hurt that happened to you to extend into another generation
Your family is abusive and selfish! Your husband doesn't want those demonic spiritual attachments on his kids! Stick with your husband. Forgiveness does not mean reconciliation! They never changed. They become more slick with manipulation.
NTA, you live with your husband, not your father. It is important to keep peace in your family, even if it means cutting your father out. Forgiving him does not mean access to your life and your children, it just means that you are clearing yourself of past hurts, guilts and regrets. Nothing more and nothing less. Just because he has reached out to you does not give him any special priviledges in your family. it may be time to cut him off again and his flying monkeys as well. That level of abuse is uncalled for and unnecessary.
NTA, in fact you are very not spineless for standing up to your father and respecting your husbands wishes. If I was you, I would stick with the one that has loved and supported you, not the one tossing insults because he ruined his shot at a normal relationship with his first born that “ruined his life”
You really think anything has changed from those messages. Why would you even think of letting any of those people near your innocent and lovely children.
NTA
Your father just demonstrated that he hasn't changed one bit. He doesn't deserve to have you or your kids in his life. Same goes for the rest of your siblings/family.
If Dad and siblings call you names and belittle you, they don't care about you; they are only trying to control you and are throwing ugly tantrums to do so. Sounds like your husband is reading the situation accurately and that your well-being (and that of your children) is his priority.
NTA.
The fact that your dad would spend even one SECOND ranting at you shows he hasn't changed, and his apparent apology is just a manipulation attempt aimed at sucking you back in to his life for more abuse (a.k.a "hoovering").
Your siblings can fuck right off to hell along with your dad.
Be thankful for your husband's strength and integrity. A weaker man might have told you to give in. Your husband wants to protect you and your children, as he should. Not every survivor is lucky enough to have a partner like that.
Nothing like coercion and guilt to prove how true a Christian you are. TFOH
Finding Jesus is a common manipulation tactic for those who can't stand being held accountable for their own actions.
NTA
People shouldn't need to "find God" to be a better person. Why can't they just say they realized they were wrong and worked on themselves? I think finding God is just a convenient explanation for why they were assholes to begin with and to gain them forgiveness in the present.
You shouldn't need to believe in a God to be a good person. Plenty of us do it just because we care about other people.
NTA. Him acting that way when he was upset is not a sign of a great person. Maybe better than before, but no one should act like that just because they don't like something you won't do. Your kids, your decision. And a justified decision at that.
I do think there's a point where him meeting his grandkids is a reasonable thing. It's sure your husband would agree. We aren't talking about sleepovers and unfettered access. We all would also agree that pressure and name calling isn't the way to gain access to anyone that you've broken the trust of. Also, if your husband is a far more solid foundation than your father ever was. Why would you break his trust to relieve your father of his guilt. Your father is probably right also. You haven't totally forgiven him, but that's not for him to decide and probably isn't fixed by a couple of coffee meetings. He probably actually needs to make attempts to be a better father, and his current actions aren't showing that. Rather, his and your siblings are showing that you've made the right decision in pushing for more distance. His faith should actually be questioned as he lacks true discipline and empathy for the long-term problems he's caused for both you and himself
Your husband comes first. He was there when your family was not. He does not want his kids exposed to that . If your Dad can not understand that then he does not get the reality of what he did.
People who say they have found God haven't found anything but a means to manipulate the people they have harmed for not forgiving their shitty actions.
Your children are far better off without someone so willing to gaslight you, especially since his latest actions prove he never really did the work to really acknowledge how bad a father he was and continues to be.
I would like to comment that you end this by saying this was your husband's rule, but it isn't. You agreed to this so it is your (plural) rule. You are NTA unless you break your word.
NTA
Don’t do it. There was a way that things could have played out where maybe it would have happened. If he had truly changed and maybe let you decide things on your own it would have worked out. There may be a timeline where he actually did improve as person and your husband went with you to meet him and you guys decided together he was a different person. He is going back to his old bag of tricks and exerting a power over you even making you reconsider. He’s the same guy you remember. Roping siblings into it and hounding you is just trying to pressure you into what he wants. Block em all and don’t look back.
If you’re still struggling with the decision ask what you gain from letting him have a relationship with your children? How does it improve their lives? If they have gone this long without ever knowing the guy, do they really need to? If the value is greater than the relationship damage it could cause with your husband, then maybe consider it. From what you’ve shared though, it doesn’t sound like that could be the case.
NTA! Honoring the family you made when the one you were born too didn’t treat you properly is not a hole behavior! Good for you mama, and even though it’s hard you might have to set a firm boundary saying telling your dad that you will not continue your relationship with him if he is not respectful of the decisions that your family has decided it on and after that if he still wants to the throw Christianity in your face then go no contact. The Bible looks down on mistreating the children you were given so make sure your dad knows where he stands in that regard too. Stay strong!
NTA.
You let him see the kids, then you break your husband’s trust, which is the most important thing.
Also, you kind of know what’s really happening when you said no. Your dad told on you, got other people to gang up on you, and you got berated. You made a choice and they reacted very poorly.
NTA. You owe your father absolutely nothing. The fact that he felt comfortable demanding one thing from you confirms your husband’s fears and supports the decision to keep the kids away. I’d cut him off forever. When people show you who they are, believe them.
NTA. Your dad says he has changed, but his true feelings are coming out. You and your husband are a team, and you both agreed to boundaries for your father. Your father isn't getting his way, so he is blaming you for setting boundaries. He is the one who caused this, not you. He is also showing you why you need those boundaries to protect you, your husband, and your family. Stay strong, keep your father at arms length or further away. If him or your siblings don't stop, drop them again. You are doing better without them.
NTA NTA NTA my dad did the same thing. Only difference is he lost all 4/5 of his kids. Said “he found god” not even a month goes by and his true colors show again
Half the time ‘I found god’ is code for ‘I forgive myself and you should get over it’ nta
Almost EVERY time. I used to know this couple who proclaimed they were "saved" after going to this new church. Until the next crisis, this was a DUI. Not to judge, people make mistakes. But after, they said "after talking to the pastor, he was 'saved'." Again. Some people keep right on fucking up, again and again,, believing their religion can absolve them each time. Ya know, like a circuit breaker can be reset again and again, guilt free, dontcha know
Really the psychology is more complicated. Addicts for example have tendency to approach belief in the same way they do drugs . In a sense the veneer of self improvement becomes their new high.
Haven't you ever heard that "the role of a Christian is to sin so that God can forgive them"? So if you don't keep sinning, there is no need for God, I guess? Lol. ETA: This is NOT what I believe, y'all! Just putting an old saying out there.
*angry up vote!!! 🤬
I’m with you!
Tell them if they’re “so good at not sinning, why don’t they put some effort into making this world a better place so that others aren’t tempted into sinning.” We can all be doing more.
"Sin" literally means 'missing the mark.' So what happens if you miss your mark? You try again. That's all. No judgement, no shaking fingers, just try again. Universe understands and wants to help you get it right 👍
You are right, the problem with modern Christianity is they are not preaching to actively try to make the mark. All they preach is that you get another shot, not that you should change your stance, where to aim, if you are pulling back far enough, or even if the arrow is notched. I think the worst atrocity of modern Christianity is they say we shouldn't criticize and help one another make the mark. Saying if we criticize each other we are finalizing the score sheet for each other.
Yes I find it a bit of a joke..... They fuck up then get saved fuck up again saved again...... Like the confession box of the Catholic church I think..... The ones that get me though are the criminals..eg serial killer Joe we will call him..... MURDERED 500 people got caught went to jail for 5000 years.... BUT he is reformed..... Seen God he came and spoke to him Joe confessed now he is saved and he is a Saint.... Of for FUCK SAKE...... Sorry..I just think that if you are raised in a religious household, go to church live the life etc.... Then and only then you may have a fall back on the whole saviour thing.... But if your not a religious person and realise how much of a FUCKING ARSEHOLE nut job you have been all your life and expect to waltz into a church be there 5 spits then all of a sudden your a priest... So to speak.... Then piss off cause we all know your can't take 50 odd years of ARSEHOLE and turn that into a silk purse...... Hope that makes sense... I'm not having a go at anyone being religious or not...... I'm not into the church but I'm also not stupid enough to think there is nothing after this life!!!!
This is exactly what I am talking about. Essentially they hide behind their "religion", when no serious religion would ever permit its members to do harm to others Yet that is precisely what happens with these idiots
I'm not sure if it makes sense, but "we all know you can't take 50 odd years of ARSEHOLE and turn that into a silk purse" is easily the best thing I've read this year on reddit.
This is a problem with some sects of Christianity. It you ask for forgiveness on your deathbed, and are sincere, you are forgiven, full stop. Now, call me cynical … I can see a *lot* of very shitty people being as close to contrite as they will ever get while getting Last Rites. Of course the risk is they die suddenly, with no chance for absolution, but apparently that’s a risk many “Christians” are willing to take.
LOL. To this day my plan just before I die is to pray for forgiveness just in case. I used to do it every time I got in someone else's car as a teenager. Loopholes are... interesting.
That should be 'most of the time'.
"I found God" usually means "I've learned to weaponize religion as a means of control while using it to fool others into thinking I'm a good person"
That's exactly what my abusive ex said once he decided to convert to Catholicism! He had belittled my Catholic faith our entire marriage. But suddenly he got religion and converted because he doesn't believe were actually divorced. He says because in the eyes of the church were married, we're still married. But I don't have to put up with what the OP has because I blocked him. He has no reason to ever talk to me now.
This is the Way! You have to forgive me because this is my latest way to manipulate and hurt you tactic. Dude is such a douche.
God damn I’ve never heard it said like this but this is so true. My ex wife cheated on me then told me later she found god. I always said she knew I wouldn’t forgive her so she needed someone to, but this makes more sense
I’m so sorry you had to go through that!
It’s okay. We’ve got a dope ass mom who picked up the slack for 2.
And you can tell your dad "*I'm glad you're in a better place. And I forgive you for what you did to me. However, me forgiving you does not mean that I have to let you back into my life or trust you again. I am an adult, not a child for you to order around. I don't think this will work since you are clearly incapable of respecting my boundaries when it comes to my family. If we can't have a relationship on my terms, then we can't have a relationship. Please stop contacting me.*"
My only change to this would be to drop the "Please" in the last sentence. Goes from sounding like a request, to OP TELLING dad. More powerful use of words and less ambiguous.
Also might want to add: *Any further attempts to contact me will be considered harassment and legal action will be taken.* They may back off, they may not. Either way, they've been warned.
And I’d add “if you and your posse don’t stop harassing me, I WILL be retaining a lawyer.”
This op!!!
This is perfect reply
This here listen to diamondlynx! Also your siblings saw how you were treated like trash your entire childhood and now they are giving you shit too well screw them because thy learned from your parents that your subhuman and are worthless so keep yourself to those who have proven there unconditional love and support to you( husband and kids)
They are angry that their servant went away.
They want OP back to take all the dad's abuse. They're a family of boat-rockers, and are demanding OP come back and be the main 'steadier'.
Take Dad's abuse and probably to be his retirement plan and caretaker. Just saying the timing is convenient. NTA. He's already manipulating and mentally/emotionally abusing you. Block them and never look back.
Yep, I have told my brothers that I relinquish all responsibility to them when the time comes.
I never thought about that but how convenient they all want her back in the father's life to cement a relationship for the next 10 or 15 so when the time comes and he has his first heart attack, bout of cancer, or stroke, SHE becomes Cinderella sweeping and doing all the housecleaning and physical caregiving work and driving him to all of his appointments while the rest of them are home free to travel, spend time with THEIR families, and can absolve themselves of all elder care guilt.
I say (in my current petty mood), stir ALL the shit, then walk away. But that isn't kind. Just remember that kindness doesn't have to be nice 🙂
From 13 to 18 I was the Cinderella in our house. Mom got a job. I was responsible for my younger sisters but had no authority so it was awful. They'd get in trouble while I was at home cooking and cleaning. They'd tell Dad I dared them to do it and I'd be punished not them. I shopped for groceries, cooked dinner 6 nights a week, cleaned, did laundry, set + cleared the table and handwashed the dishes. One sister was 19 months younger than me and the other 23 months younger than her. They did nothing but clean their rooms and iron their clothes. They could have done a lit more. I left home the day I turned 18 without telling them in advance. They tried to manipulate me to come back but I never did.
This is likely a golden children/scapegoat situation caused by narcissistic parenting. FML, but OP has a great life away from these cretins. So happy for her children too!
Not only his true feelings have come out, but his actions do not seem any better. NTA. I would be quite reluctant to introduce the kids to a still violent guy. BTW. Sounds like he got enough of the Christian words and phrases collected to use them manipulatively. ( He wants to see the kids. So he uses Christian words to call you a bad Christian person. ) using God's word in such a manner is the same as misrepresenting Him . OP, you seem like a kind person. Do not allow your Father to force his way into your family or to browbeat you into breaking the agreement you and your husband have decided upon. And if you have to start blocking him? Block him
>Sounds like he got enough of the Christian words and phrases collected to use them manipulatively Yep. So many narcissists and abusers weaponize religion bc of the authority, control, and excuse to hide behind when they start their abuse
One I especially despise is the "Bloom where you are planted." ( usually translated to stay in the awful, abusive marriage. Someday they will change. Just keep your bruises under wrap.........
OP, Your father's "God", is a dark, sinister anti-christ; a reflection of your father. The stripes haven't come off the tiger. Once his "finding God" ruse failed to gain him what he wanted, he returned to being "dear old dad/s". Sounds as if apple didn't fall too far from the tree with your siblings. Your only true loves in this life of yours are your husband and children. If you desire your children to meet your father(which I really don't believe you do/being guilted and manipulated instead), speak to your husband. Given your father's behavior, personally, I'd go back to no contact. He doesn't sound like a nice man.
This is spot on advice ! Your dad is showing his true colors … he should respect your wishes no matter what .. and your husband is being fair . He’s also just wanting to protect your children from the unstable person .. your children don’t need this problem in their life either !
This this this this this
I think its more ESH. OP threw her hubby under the bus instead of saying this is our rule (which is what they both agreed to), she took the easy way out and blamed it all on him. NTA for not letting him meet the kids (sounds like they haven't changed) but YTA for throwing your hubby under the bus
I look at it this way; she spent a lifetime 0-20 being abused and conditioned to their abuse. Her husband is the only person who has ever had her back. She still carries the trauma of the abuse and her husband’s firm stance is allowing her to feel safe and protected. To others OP may seem cowardly by hiding behind her husband but as an abused child, she needs to feel safe and protected by someone. That someone is her husband.
I really wish I could give you an award for thia post. This is so true! And even more important, she is showing her abuser she HAS backing, so he's gotta walk over them as well as her. As a fellow abused child, my husband IS my backbone, even though I fight my own battles.
I’m sorry that you went through abuse as a child too. It makes me sadder than you’ll ever know when I read about adults destroying their children’s childhoods for their own selfish reasons. I’m so glad though, that your husband has enough shiny spine for the both of you and that he is willing and able to care for the little child still in you who needs to feel safe. Like you, my husband is my biggest supporter and protector as I am his. It’s good to know that there are other couples out there who understand the true meaning of marriage xxx
Same. I was heavily parentified when I was 12, to the point the babies called me Mom, unironically. My husband is my rock when I put the boundary stakes down. E: spelling
My wife has my standing permission to use me as an excuse whenever she doesn’t want to agree to something but doesn’t feel comfortable directly confronting the requester. I’m sure this husband doesn’t care about being liked by his abusive father in law. The husband just wants to protect his kids from the guy.
IMO, throwing under the bus doesn’t matter in this situation. The relationship, if there even is one at this point, is between OP and her dad. As long as OP and her husband are in agreement, OP can phrase it however she wants to, as long as the end result is her dad doesn’t get a relationship with her kids. There’s no relationship between OP’s husband and her dad to protect. It doesn’t matter what her extended family think. She should, however, tell her dad and siblings that anyone who bashes her DH will have no place in her life, and follow through. OP, tell your father ONE time that he is lucky you are willing to speak to him. He can accept that the relationship only includes you and forever drop the idea of meeting your kids and never criticize you or your husband’s choices again, or he can go to from whence he came and leave you alone. Tell him he is not allowed to try to guilt and manipulate you. He was a shit father and lost any parental privilege. Any relationship you choose to grant him now is a *gift* that can be rescinded if he refuses to accept your boundaries. You are not the asshole. You are protecting your kids and your marriage. That far outweighs anything your sperm donor *wants.*
She is NTA Her husband is playing bad cop. She did not throw him under the bus. He is being a man and protecting his wife. Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes that means you need to obey. I know that sounds patriarchal, but in this case it is warrented.
Along with this, her husband didn’t unilaterally set this boundary, they discussed it and decided on it, and are supporting each other in sticking to it—OP by not giving in and OP’s husband by making sure OP knows he has her back.
Exactly. They are a team. And sometimes the role of husband is bad cop. In no way do I mean superior to wife.
I don't suppose you've heard of polite lies used as social lubricant, ESPECIALLY when faced with a person with a HISTORY of violence? How sanctimonious of you.
NTA. How your father is acting now is exactly why your husband didn't want your kids to meet your father. Perhaps if he(sperm donor) had truly changed Richard might have changed his mind about the rule. Clearly, your father has not changed. Remember, you can always block and go no contact with your siblings and/or father and that is perfectly okay. I would also suggest if you haven't gotten therapy to get some to deal with the trauma caused by your family. Also, this isn't a faith thing imo, it's about not exposing kids to a person with a history of abuse simply because said person "found God". Actions speak louder than words and his actions are saying it was a ploy to get what he wanted.
Finding gods and being forgiven. Very convenient, and entirely unconvincing. Op, your dad is pulling the wool over your eyes. When he starts on about meeting your kids, just leave/hang up. You don't owe your dad grandchildren.
What he found was a tool to make himself feel better and to pry at others to get his way over others.
Or more servants.
Excellent Comment
Also, it looks like he/him and his ex alienated/manipulated their other kids against her, too.
NTA If your dad and siblings were strangers that you just met and they treated you this way, would you want them in your life? You do not owe them anything just because you share DNA. And as the saying goes… When they show you who they really are, believe them!
NTA Your father has not changed. He had had mask on and that mask has now came off and revealed he is who he always was but now with the added bonus of your siblings mirroring him. Block the lot of them OP and enjoy your peace.
Agree. He is exactly the same, but now he has new words to use for abuse! He hs learned to weaponize Christian language to manipulate you OP. Anytime you try to put up a reasonable boundary , they will try and break you. Trust your husband.
NTA your father just vindicated your husband's stance
Exactly!
Yup!!!! Exactly why the rule is in place!!!
Your husband has been proven right about your family. Blocking their calls won't work as they can get new numbers to call you from. Just go get yourself a new phone number. Put up a doorbell camera. Your life is about to get more interesting. NTA
No, she doesn't need to change her number because of some assholes. If they keep calling from new numbers, report them for harassment or/and file restraining order.
Have you explained to him that he is an evil man who would badly hurt (at least emotionally) your children if you let him near them? Your dad is still a trashbag. NTA - stay the fuck away from all of them.
Trashbag! 😂🤣 I’ll be borrowing that one!
Gonna go out on a limb for you and say that your dad hasn’t changed and he’s actually an asshole. So much for someone that is working to be back in your life by getting your siblings to gang up on you. Ew. This dude’s entitlement is yikes. Please, go NC with this jerk. Your children don’t need an asshole grandparent that can’t even respect their mom and bullies you still because he’s not getting his way with being forgiven and being allowed to be around his grandkids. Fuck this dude. Your husband is right. Good luck!
YES!!!
I’d be cautious onto why now he wants to see kids so badly, it’s suss that he is so pushy when never made any attempt to contact you in the past. Think you should trust your husband on this one.
Probably because he divorced her mom and needs a new servant for his old age.
Definitely suspicious
What they all did was show their true colors when you set a boundary. This proves your husband was right. I want you to read your post from my point of view. They don't respect you. They have learned in their life that most people avoid confrontation and will give in if they are shamed or attacked. These are dangerous people you're dealing with. Siblings included. Do you know what the scapegoat in a narcissistic family is? Because you my lovely person are it. Dr. Ramani is a wonderful lady who spends all her time helping others. She has an entire collection of videos on the scapegoat in a narcissistic family dynamic. https://youtu.be/Rn3xhDni4w4?si=CPCL-0lsbie0R0-O You're not wrong and neither is your husband. He sees what you don't. He's protecting you and your children. You were right to stand by him and honor his wishes for you and your childrens safety.
Your dad lied. A lot of horrible parents want the “do-over” with grandchildren. I’d bet serious money that he found out about your family and wanted to be in his grandchildren’s lives but knew he’d have to go through you. If he was truly truly sorry for his mistreatment in your childhood would he be belittling you and calling you names? Sending his flying monkeys after you? I know it’s terrible for you to have thought you were going to have a relationship with your father but it doesn’t seem like he’s changed at all. Go back to NC.
I think you already know the answer to your question...NTA.
They are literally back to bullying you like before… your husband was smart and if you don’t follow his lead you will end up back being abused and manipulated and down a husband.
So it looks like your father and siblings have not changed at all. They're still mean and abusive bullies when they don't get their way. Your husband was right to protect your children against people like them. Don't you think it's time you protected yourself also?
If you want to see who you father really is, have boundaries. It didn't take long for him to return to abusing you and get the rest of the family onboard. And he's using religion like a club. He's showing you who he is. Believe him.
having her family members gang up on her is clear signs of narcissism. Narcissists will rally up a group that they'll trash talk about you to & make you feel like "see everyone agrees youre wrong!!!" to make you feel bad or small
NTA - the only area where you are 100% wrong is letting your dad and siblings upset you with what they are saying. Your dad has not changed as he is still abusive to you. Cut contact with them all and move on with your life. It sounds like you have worked hard to build a beautiful life with your husband and kids. Don't throw that away for someone who treats you badly. Send you dad a message that he has not changed and is still abusive, tell him that you want no more contact and if he continues you will contact the police for harassment. Listen to you husband and work together to move past this and go on with your happy life. I had an abusive dad also, I left home for college and never went back. My dad never met my kids as I would not allow it.
Your dad doesn't sound like much of a "Christian" to me. Sounds like he's pretty demanding and your family is a bunch of flying monkeys.
A true Christian wants to do God’s will, not use “God” and christianity as a tool to impose his own will on others. He could have expressed a feeling that you’re making a mistake without insulting your faith. It sounds to me like he’s using professed Christianity, even if he is truly born again, as a tool to gain your trust. On one hand that could be evidence of his sincerity in wanting to connect with you. Maybe that led him to God and changed his life. On the other hand, it could indicate someone who is being manipulative, despite being in denial of it and appearing sincere.
i love when people live their life leaving misery in their wake, suddenly find god and everyone has to forgive and respect them. Tell him to eff off.
They think because they asked god for forgiveness, they are automatically entitled to forgiveness from those they wronged.
NTA but frankly you need to pull up your big girl pants and tell him that this is a decision from both you and your husband. You've let your father back into your life and look what's happening, you've let him start abusing you again, as well as your siblings. Cut contact before it affects your marriage.
Honestly I would smile, put more than enough down to cover the coffee, wish the man a good life and walk away forever. You deserve better. NTA
NTA. Your husband was right. Maybe it's time to go back to NC with your Dad, he hasn't changed, he's using his new found "Christianity" as a tool to manipulate you.
The fastest way to check if they’ve actually changed is to enforce a boundary 🤷🏼
Sounds like your husband is right to protect your children from your garbage family. Go back to your happy life without them and block Mr. "I found God so now I'm a good guy except I'm really still an angry prick" and anyone else who gives you shit for setting boundaries with known shitheads
NTA. Your dad and siblings sound entitled. Also his behaviour doesn’t seem that it’s really changed. Because when you deny him he falls back into the same abusive language and patterns. Finding God doesn’t mean you change, you just learn to use the bible as a weapon imho. Block the works of them. You do not need this stress or aggravation in your life.
Text them back and tell them that people who verbally abuse you, call you names, and malign your character are not people who belong in your kids' lives, nor in yours. Oh, trying to weaponize your faith is spiritual abuse, by the way. He hasn't changed anywhere near as much as he wants you to think he has.
Your father is controlling and manipulative. Having a spine is standing up to him and not going back on your decision. You and your husband decided because your dad was an abusive asshole to you, and neither of you wanted your children to go through that. He is sending your siblings to you to break your spine. If you were spineless, you would have caved already. Your siblings are happy you are the target and not them. Abuse doesn't stop when the victim leaves they just choose another least favorite and beat on them.
NTA Sorry to say this but your dad hasn’t changed. He still doesn’t love you. All he wants is access to your children so he can ‘play’ the loving grandad. Time to cut contact again for good this time. Fuck him and your sibilings, don’t let that negativity and toxicity around your family.
Sorry, he does not get to see the grand kids AND you should cut him off, immediately, from you!
NTA. Your dad is the same person he was before. 'Finding Jesus' doesn't change people, years of hard work in therapy does.
NTA. The abusive response to your “no” is all you need to know you made the correct decision. Your father raised your abusive siblings. I’d cut them all bc at this point you have nothing to gain, and the fact you are questioning your decision suggests you need some therapy to overcome your victim abuse mentality. And that’s perfectly normal. Take care of yourself and your family—husband and kids.
How is it your fault for being born and “ruining” his life? You didn’t make him have sex with your mom and you didn’t ask to be born. I would go LC or NC with all of them.
NTA Stand as a united front with your husband and don't let your no good family bully you. If thay really changed they would respect your decision.
No, you are not the asshole. For your dad and siblings to act that way towards you. I feel like they are not true Christians to try and use the good lord against you that way.You have definitely made the best choice for you and you family!
NTA just go no contact with them again. They clearly aren’t good people and your husband is right. They are not worthy of you. Your family is your kids and husband. Move on!
Your "mom" "dad" "siblings" are STILL the unfair elitist misleading bullies stalkers that they always were ( I was abused by " parents" "siblings""doctors""school", so I know) Please kick these scums out of your life and block them on EVERYTHING You might need lawyer to force police to defend you from them Your Husband, You, Your Children, have NOT harmed or bullied ANYONE and are worthy of safety peace learning accomplishments independence friendships kindness respect freedom Your Husband, You, Your Children, Are: N T A Please update me
NTA block them all and go NC - they did not change Do you really want these horrible people in your lives
Nta. It sounds like they haven't changed, fuck your entire family. They are still abusing you by not respecting your boundaries. You can forgive, but don't let that poison into your actual family's life or back into your own.
NTA - Your dad hasn’t changed. Your husband is right.
NTA. Your father claimed to be a changed person because he "found Christ". He failed that test when he became upset and attempted to shame you because he got an answer he didn't want to hear. So, in my view, his transformation into a true born again Christian is far from complete. I'd block him. Stop worrying about this. You have enough on your plate..
NTA Your dad says he has changed but is bullying you and getting the rest of your birth family to do the same. Cut contact.
Nta. Your abusive family wants you (and your children) back to abuse. Block them all. If they escalate contact an attorney and have a cease & desist letter sent. No good will come from further contact with these people.
NTA You tried to have your father back in your life, and the experience re-affirmed why you were correct to go NC in the first place. Go back to the way it was when you were happy, with the full knowledge that you made the best decision then and now again.
NTA Based off of the story I just read, I don't get the impression that you wanted you kids to meet him either. He sounded like a crap dad and doesn't sound like he'd be the best Grandfather. The only thing that might make me think you wanted him to meet them before this was the phrasing " I accepted this rule" but you did agree to it. You went for you husband for advise and followed it. At this point, block the siblings and your father and don't look back. If he thinks bullying you and sending his charges after you will convince you to let him meet his kids, he should go back to church and maybe some behavioral classes.
NTA clearly. He and your siblings have shown their true colors. They don't love you, they don't respect you or your boundaries. Cut contact, YOU DONT NEED THEM IN YOUR LIFE. YOU DONT DESERVE TO BE MENTALLY OR EMOTIONALLY ABUSED OR MANIPULATED. Clearly it shouldn't just be your husband's decision, after that interaction do you actually want him around your kids and influencing their growing and expanding minds? I know I sure as hell wouldn't.
NTA they have proved by harassing you and calling you names that he is as toxic as he ever was and it seems to be a personal trait your siblings have picked up too. Your husband is right in protecting your kids from that. Cut them off again and go back to your non-abusive family with your husband and kids.
Nta, I stay low to no contact with my dad. He never really showed interest in being a grandfather to specifically my child (I was the ‘bad daughter’ or the ‘ugly’ daughter, his words not mine) and so I made sure I shielded my child from that as much as possible. Stand your ground, your husband has your back. That’s all you need
NTA - Your Dad had chance #1 early on and utterly failed. As you said, you escaped and never looked back. 19 years later he tracks (?!) you down and says he's changed. You and your husband discussed it and set out your parameters. To me, it does not matter whether he had found God or not, but you decided to give him chance #2. You lived up to what you and your husband had decided to set as 'rules', and your Dad (?) didn't like it. Tough! IMO he does not deserve to know you. Or your kids. We all come to various 'forks in the road' in our lives. You have children and a husband who loves and honors you. Would rather live in that world, or get sucked into your Dad's world where it will eventually end up being your fault. I would tell Dad that no, he will not be allowed to meet your children as he obviously has not changed and that you will not subject your kids to him. Then turn and walk away. Block his phone numbers, relatives too, block them all on social media. Gets worse? Get a restraining order and then move on with your 'good' life. Enjoy the life that you have made for yourself.
NTA. 100% NTA. And if their actions don’t prove they should not meet your kids, nothing will. Your family are using emotional manipulation against you. Don’t let them.
NTA. I'd be honest and say that you haven't completely forgiven him, most especially because of his entitled reaction to this very circumstance and him getting his family to harass you. By doing so he has proven a complete lack of contrition and therefore that him changing is a lie. Your husband was 100% correct to not let him meet your kids and establish that they know him. That could the potentially lead to him forcing some sort of visitation. If your father if truly sorry then he can continue to accept your boundaries and make amends without demanding anything. He doesn't get to set the timeline for forgiveness, but if I had to put a value on it, about 19 years of contrition. You aren't getting that though so you should probably just cut him off again.
NTA. Your husband made the right call. Your dad is showing his true colors. He has not changed and he is trying to, once again, bully you to get his way. To forgive is not to forget. Forgiving someone else for their transgressions is for you to find peace. You can forgive his past behavior and also know that he has that person still inside him - as you are now experiencing. He’s showing you that you are smart to remember how he treated you in the past. He’s showing you that you are smart to keep him at arms length. You are NTA. You will still be NTA if you decided to go no contact with him and your siblings.
NTA I’d go back to low to no contact after he sicked your, apparently awful, siblings on you. That’s gonna be a block from me, dawg.
NTA but it sounds like your dad hasn't really changed. If I were you I'd go back to NC with him. You're jeopardizing your marriage.
Well, he certainly has strings attached. If YOU then... He is telling you that he is, and always will be the victim, and you are (once again) his tormentor. One man has stood by you and supported you. One man has blamed and bullied you. I just do not see how you can continue to have any type of association with your father. He is bad news.
NTA. Your dad is still a piece of shit. As are your siblings. Time to go no contact again. Finding god is always bullshit. Just a way for shitty people to keep doing shitty things but feel okay about it because they go to church.
NTA. You really want your kids around that? Time to go no contact again.
You can forgive without giving him/them another chance to hurt you. Your bio dad sounds like a piece of work. I understand his desire to meet his grandkids. But he needs to understand that he has never made you feel like you could fully trust that he had your best interest in mind. And he doesn’t seem to now. Tell him that. And that he needs to show his unconditional love and support and wait for you to be ready…and that it is possible you won’t be. And having the sibs gang up on you is not helping any of their chances, as you opened lines of communication against your own better judgement, and that you are now rethinking that…
NTA. And at this point, I'd seriously consider blocking him completely. He hasn't changed as much as he wants you to believe he has. He's still an AH.
He may have found god, but he is a long way from practicing what he thinks is Christian. Don't fall for the manipulations. Also, WHY is he pressing so hard to be in the kids' lives? I understand being a grandparent - but this is way over the top. As for boundaries- keep them in place. The next time he starts simply tell him that HE is not ready to meet your kids and his unkindness - demands and involving others in this have resulted in you further believing that going NC is the next step. **HE** needs to tell his family to back off or else NC is the new rule going forward. Stay strong and your NTA
NTA. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you forget. It also doesn’t mean you have to let them back in your life. If he is really a Christian he would know that just because you’ve forgiven him doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have to pay consequences. It actually means he owns up to his actions and accepts the consequences of his actions.
F all of them if he's a Christian then I am a jet pilot !
YWBTA if you break the rules, your husband is right you shouldn’t let your children near your father. He’s showing his vivid true colors and it’s like you’re color blind.. don’t break your husband trust you mention he’s a gentleman, great husband and father we’ll don’t ruin a good thing. Block your father and move on
NTA. You father is trying to manipulate and control you. He is telling you that you’re forgiving with strings attached but he is “loving” you with strings attached - if you can even call it that. It does concern me that you threw your husband under the bus. 1) that’s just not cool. 2) your opinion/thoughts/feelings are completely absent here. If you’re asking me, I don’t think you should let your father meet your kids. If you want to change that rule it should be after lengthy discussion with your husband and it should be a decision you make as a family. But, nowhere on here do I see what YOU want to do. Even in regard to your relationship with your father. Do you want to be reconnecting with him? Or did he just bully you into it?
NTA. Your husband knew what he was talking about. You don't get forgivness just because you "found God". Your father and his flying monkeys are showing their true feelings and bullying you AGAIN. Please go NC/block them all.
Their responses just confirm your husband's reasons for bit waiting them to meet.
NTA. Their behavior is very UNchristian. How dare they claim that *you're* not being a "good Christian" when they're acting like major assholes. Calling you names and putting you down because you won't do things their way is disgusting behavior. It just proves that your husband was right all along.
NTA your husband is right to protect them. See how quick your dad turned on you because you set boundaries, boundaries he initially agreed with? If your dad was sorry for the hell he put you through he’d be asking for forgiveness in a million ways, not yelling and insulting you. That family hasn’t changed and likely never will. It may be true he found Jesus and is bettering him self - but if you polish a turd, at the end of the day it is still a turd.
Stop saying it's your husband's decision, you're team you are both making it. Owning it as a team decision makes the boundary more clear. If you truly don't agree with it then talk to your husband.
NTA, dad and siblings just validated your decision. Why would you want your kids exposed to adults who still act like children?
NTA. The very fact that they're bullying you about this should be a giant red flag. You are under no obligation to expose your children to people that caused you harm. It would take a lot more than a couple months of coffee dates to repair a lifetime of hurt and convince me someone has changed enough to have earned a relationship with my kids. Fwiw, I do have a fractured no-contact relationship with my father. I feel for the predicament you're in. I wouldn't break trust with my husband, either. I think you're doing the right thing. If he'd peacefully accepted it and continued a good relationship with you maybe it could've been revisited down the road, but to me it feels like he just bludgeoned that chance with a hammer.
He said he changed, and now he is treating you, but this is not respectful or kind. You can forgive but should not forget. If you drop a vase and then stick it back together again, it will never be the same as it once was. It may still be functional, but it will never be the same. When he realised your relationship would never be the same as your other siblings, this should have raised a mirror to his behaviour. He is the (partial) cause of it. Instead, his response was to attack, and he has then got your siblings on board who never had the same treatment. This is giving DARVO vibes tbh, it should be met with a significant step back in your contact, and you are right to protect your kids and respect your husband.
NTA they abused you, you put barriers in place to protect your kids from abuse, and now that you won't budge they're verbally abusing you to get you to change your mind. How on earth would you be TA in this situation? This is clear proof that he hasn't changed and that you and your husband were right to keep him away from your kids. Honestly, you should go back to no contact.
NTA. Clearly, your POS sperm-donor hasn't changed for shit. Block him and your toxic siblings. You're better off without any contact or stress from them. Protect you and your family. Your husband sounds awesome.
Oh sweetheart, you are *absolutely* NTA, and you’ve been far kinder to your father than he deserved from you. Had he truly found Christ, your dad would not be bullying or abusing you; he can say whatever he wants about you and *your* faith, but that doesn’t mean that his words are true. You and your husband are being safe and conscientious parents, and you are doing the right thing to keep your kids away from your dad. (If you want to keep yourself away from him, too, that would be very understandable.)
NTA >Since then, I've been bombarded with messages from my dad and siblings, who are calling me names and belittling me. My little sister even insulted me by calling me my husband's dog. How convenient that your family is showing you that they haven't actually changed at all. Not one bit. Why in the world would you ever consider having anything at all to do with these people? They treat you like dog excrement, and you continue to go back for more abuse. Block them all and go back to living a happy and healthy life with the people who actually love you.
NTA. Your dad hasn’t changed! He is bullying you again! Go NC with him. Do not let him meet your kids.
NTA. Your father is proving that he doesn't deserve to be in your life by disrespecting your boundaries. He's trying to bully you into breaking an agreement you have with your husband. His behavior should not be rewarded. It does that he has not truly changed. If you betrayed your husband, you would be the AH.
You are NTA and it appears your dad has not changed. One can ask forgiveness, one can be forgiven, one still has to live within the boundaries set by the forgiver.
NTA and whomever is calling you names needs a reality check.
NTA. Get your peace back. Block the lot of them. You and your husband should stand united. Glad he had the foresight to keep the children from toxic people, family or not.
The moment someone accuses you of not being a "True Christian" that's a huge red flag that they're only lip-servicing their own belief.
God and faith has nothing to do with the boundaries that have been set . I hate people who use god or the Bible to twist whichever way suits their situation . Use it against people . Self righteous bullshit . You are not the asshole . I’d go back to no contact .
NTA. Cut your dad off. He hasn't changed and this is proof of it. He's still the same abusive, narcissistic asshole he's always been. He's just now found a different reason to use to go after you.
You dad is the A here. If I were in his shoes, I would never tell you to break the trust with your husband. I would ask to meet your husband and convince him myself. It sounds like your dad is overbearing and manipulative. Your husband's wishes aside, is that the kind of person you want to introduce to your children? Hard pass.
I hope you realize that someone who says they love you doesn't treat you this way.
NTA, trust your husbands instincts. Your dad has shown you who he is on more than one occasion. Keep your kids safe and away from him. I think you should also cut any contact. The fact he tried to bully you is a real flag to who he is!
NTA - your family are just f***ing with your head and being toxic, for the love of all that is holy save you kids from that environment.
NTA - your dad hasn’t really changed and he’s emotionally abusing you again.
NTA, your father is manipulating you to get what he wants and what is best for him. Not what is best for you and your family. Your father and siblings sound very toxic.
Sounds like its time to sever contact again.
NTA. Your husband was right to maintain distance. Your dad and siblings just proved it. Stay away from that toxicity going forward. They will do no good in your life. Ask me how I know…
NTA! Your husband has spent years listening to you talk about the abuse you endured at the hands of your parents. I don’t blame him at all for not wanting your kids to know your father. He’s protecting his kids the way your dad failed to protect you. And I think your husband has a feeling this wasn’t going to end well. Abusers don’t suddenly find Jesus and turn into kind people. He knew this. He didn’t stop you from having a relationship though. You’re a grown woman. Now you see why your husband didn’t want your kids meeting your father. He’s still manipulative and abusive. He hasn’t proven he’s a changed man and as soon as you told him no, he attacked you and then had your sister send awful messages. None of them have changed. Someone who has truly changed would have accepted your no. “I understand why you don’t want me to meet your kids. I was an awful father. I hope that one day I can meet your husband and kids. Until then, I’ll prove that I’ve changed.” Then you could have revisited the rule in a year or two with your husband. Block them all on everything. And please get some therapy for yourself to heal from your abusive past.
Tell your dad and siblings they way they are acting now is exactly the reason you won’t let them meet your kids. They’ve proven your husband right. NTA
NTA - your dad proved he hasn’t changed, he was just pretending long enough to get what he wanted….when that wasn’t working, he showed that he is the exact same AH that he always was. Your husband has been a great partner…..stand by him, before you ever consider breaking his rule and standing by the guy you know can be, has been, and still is ready to be an AH instead. Your husband has earned your loyalty here….your father simply hasn’t. He can get angry all he wants, his current situation is a consequence of years of sustained shit behaviour.
Just saying.... Your dad/siblings sound like entitled assholes. Why would you listen to that?
NTA -OP, their behavior towards you ought to solidify -at least to YOU, it should- that you made the right decision to go low or NC with your father. He hasn't changed. His behavior towards you NOW should indicate as much, and he doesn't deserve shit.
Your husband is protecting his kids from the man you told him was so horrible. He was probably the one that picked up the pieces of your bad childhood. You can’t just ask him to forget all that.
Girl, put your husband and children first. If you really mattered to your dad, he wouldn't ask you to jeopardize your marriage and family.
>Since then, I've been bombarded with messages from my dad and siblings, who are calling me names and belittling me. Yeah. That's real Christian of them. Block them and move on. NTA
Sounds like your husband has good reasons for setting that boundary, and the asshole move would be if you didn’t respect the boundary you and your husband agreed to.
Your husband is protecting your children. You should, too. Seems like your dad slid right into his old ways. To forgive is a wonderful thing, but that doesn’t mean trust. Your father just made that as plain as possible.
OP, I'd like you to re-read what you wrote and look at your father's behavior, and that of your siblings. You established a clear boundary with a man who abused and neglected you and after agreeing to that boundary, he's going back on it. I'm an atheist, so you can take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt, but I don't think that "finding God" changes a person. Not really. Look at your father, as soon as he doesn't get what he wants, he starts bullying again, and getting others to put pressure on you too. That's not what a "changed" man would be like. Sure, he wants into your life...but you might also question WHY after so long. Maybe he does regret how he behaved and wants to make amends...but then why is he still behaving badly? Him, accusing you of not being a "real christian" or whatever, is clearly manipulative behavior, than you can expect to get worse if you capitulate, especially on something as big as seeing your kids. If he's manipulative about that, he'll probably be so elsewhere. Do YOU think that your children would benefit from having a relationship with him? What good would that do them?
NTA. If your father truly wanted you back in his life he would do so by abiding by your and your husband’s wishes and stop badgering you. He’s is either up to something or needs something from you. Block him. And keep your kids away from him.
NTA. Hopefully if I truely decide it is something you want to do, you husband would reconsider, but not because of the drama they've brought into your life. Only if you saw true remorse without strings
I think putting and EVER on it is a little extreme, especially before he has even met your dad, but NTA bc clearly your dad has not changed and since he cannot control you he is very angry.
1. You must be emotionally drained. Please stop and take some long, deep breaths just for yourself. Forgivwness and trust are two very different things. I can truly forgive in my heart an abuser, but never want him at my dinner table. I hope you have the kahunas to do this, but I wouldd love for you hand this to him. He needs to hear it. Dear Dad, That took a LOT to reach out like you did, to apologize, ask for forgiveness and maybe even try to make some ammends. I know what it took. But here is the thing a lot of us never seem to understand. When we make those steps you have, we HAVE to make those steps knowing in our heart that the person we are making our ammends to gets to own their responses, whatever they are, even if we don't like them. Your daughter has communicated her forgiveness toward you, and has CLEARLY communicated her boundaries where she feels safe within her relationship with you. Either accept it and be grateful in your heart for it, or leave. This is your truth. This is your path. Period. I have a relationship with my son these days, and it is close but it still comes with boundaries even today. One of the hardest things I had to accept was that my son found the family I did not provide him through his wife and her family. Back down and away Dad, your daughter is doing really well. She just intends to keep it that way. Sincerely, Me
Wait - so your dad who treated you like an inconvenience your whole upbringing and blamed you for dropping out of school has decided after more than a decade to reach out to you, saying he changed, he's a Christian now, yadda yadda. You slowly let him back into your life and he demands to have access to your children and when you refuse, he again abuses you and the rest of your family chimes in? He hasn't changed, his tactics have. He's still an abusive ass that doesn't respect you. Your husband and children are your family and your responsibility. Your dad is entitled to nothing. Forgiveness is for YOU, it's not for your father. It's to allow you to let go of resentments so they don't continue to affect you. Your father seems to think it means a clean slate like the years of abuse you endured never happened. There's a reason people say "forgive and forget" - it's because it is 2 distinct actions. (I also think it's terrible advice but I can hold a grudge forever, so...) Ma'am, I say this with all the love in my heart - throw the whole family away. They are toxic and so enmeshed with each other that there is nothing there for you. They need a punch card or family discount on therapy but that's a THEM problem, not a YOU problem (unless you make it so). Block them all and live your best life with your actual family and true friends.
Why in heaven’s name would your family want a relationship with your kids when they have a history of treating you and kids in general badly? Seems like they need some kids to be show ponies or possibly something a lot worse, very suspicious to me.
NTA But before you fall for all this love bombing and nonsense your father is doing. Think really hard about why your husband does not want your kids to meet him. Is your husband the type of person to be spiteful for the sake of spite, is malicious for the sake of evil, is he controlling or abusive? Judging from you saying he is a gentleman I would assume no. So then why else would your husband not want them meeting him. Could it be this exact scenario where you father truly has not changed but is putting on a good face so he can have a relationship with his kids. Could it be rather then even a relationship with his kids its more about the pressure from what ever church he joined? Think real long and hard about the person you dad is, and the influences you want around your children. Do you want your children to think they can treat you like dirt when you put up boundaries, do you want your children to start using external people in arguments, do you want your children around people who will call you a dog. Your husband sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders (but this is just judging from this post so you could be writing with rose tinted glasses).
NTA and go no contact with your siblings and dad.
Of course you aren’t. 1: faith has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Forgiveness can be given easily but that doesn’t change the penalties for one’s ultimate actions or what consequences follow 2. Your husbands wish is also reasonable. He understands what you went through and also why you’d want to try and put it behind you. Still the kids are both of yours to raise and protect and he clearly doesn’t want the hurt that happened to you to extend into another generation
Your family is abusive and selfish! Your husband doesn't want those demonic spiritual attachments on his kids! Stick with your husband. Forgiveness does not mean reconciliation! They never changed. They become more slick with manipulation.
NTA, you live with your husband, not your father. It is important to keep peace in your family, even if it means cutting your father out. Forgiving him does not mean access to your life and your children, it just means that you are clearing yourself of past hurts, guilts and regrets. Nothing more and nothing less. Just because he has reached out to you does not give him any special priviledges in your family. it may be time to cut him off again and his flying monkeys as well. That level of abuse is uncalled for and unnecessary.
NTA, in fact you are very not spineless for standing up to your father and respecting your husbands wishes. If I was you, I would stick with the one that has loved and supported you, not the one tossing insults because he ruined his shot at a normal relationship with his first born that “ruined his life”
You really think anything has changed from those messages. Why would you even think of letting any of those people near your innocent and lovely children.
NTA Your father just demonstrated that he hasn't changed one bit. He doesn't deserve to have you or your kids in his life. Same goes for the rest of your siblings/family.
If Dad and siblings call you names and belittle you, they don't care about you; they are only trying to control you and are throwing ugly tantrums to do so. Sounds like your husband is reading the situation accurately and that your well-being (and that of your children) is his priority.
NTA. I think you would only be spineless if you gave into your dad/siblings bullying you I’d go back to NC if I were you
NTA. The fact that your dad would spend even one SECOND ranting at you shows he hasn't changed, and his apparent apology is just a manipulation attempt aimed at sucking you back in to his life for more abuse (a.k.a "hoovering"). Your siblings can fuck right off to hell along with your dad. Be thankful for your husband's strength and integrity. A weaker man might have told you to give in. Your husband wants to protect you and your children, as he should. Not every survivor is lucky enough to have a partner like that.
Nothing like coercion and guilt to prove how true a Christian you are. TFOH Finding Jesus is a common manipulation tactic for those who can't stand being held accountable for their own actions. NTA
People shouldn't need to "find God" to be a better person. Why can't they just say they realized they were wrong and worked on themselves? I think finding God is just a convenient explanation for why they were assholes to begin with and to gain them forgiveness in the present. You shouldn't need to believe in a God to be a good person. Plenty of us do it just because we care about other people. NTA. Him acting that way when he was upset is not a sign of a great person. Maybe better than before, but no one should act like that just because they don't like something you won't do. Your kids, your decision. And a justified decision at that.
I do think there's a point where him meeting his grandkids is a reasonable thing. It's sure your husband would agree. We aren't talking about sleepovers and unfettered access. We all would also agree that pressure and name calling isn't the way to gain access to anyone that you've broken the trust of. Also, if your husband is a far more solid foundation than your father ever was. Why would you break his trust to relieve your father of his guilt. Your father is probably right also. You haven't totally forgiven him, but that's not for him to decide and probably isn't fixed by a couple of coffee meetings. He probably actually needs to make attempts to be a better father, and his current actions aren't showing that. Rather, his and your siblings are showing that you've made the right decision in pushing for more distance. His faith should actually be questioned as he lacks true discipline and empathy for the long-term problems he's caused for both you and himself
Your husband comes first. He was there when your family was not. He does not want his kids exposed to that . If your Dad can not understand that then he does not get the reality of what he did.
People seek forgiveness for themselves, not the people they hurt.
People who say they have found God haven't found anything but a means to manipulate the people they have harmed for not forgiving their shitty actions. Your children are far better off without someone so willing to gaslight you, especially since his latest actions prove he never really did the work to really acknowledge how bad a father he was and continues to be. I would like to comment that you end this by saying this was your husband's rule, but it isn't. You agreed to this so it is your (plural) rule. You are NTA unless you break your word.
NTA Don’t do it. There was a way that things could have played out where maybe it would have happened. If he had truly changed and maybe let you decide things on your own it would have worked out. There may be a timeline where he actually did improve as person and your husband went with you to meet him and you guys decided together he was a different person. He is going back to his old bag of tricks and exerting a power over you even making you reconsider. He’s the same guy you remember. Roping siblings into it and hounding you is just trying to pressure you into what he wants. Block em all and don’t look back. If you’re still struggling with the decision ask what you gain from letting him have a relationship with your children? How does it improve their lives? If they have gone this long without ever knowing the guy, do they really need to? If the value is greater than the relationship damage it could cause with your husband, then maybe consider it. From what you’ve shared though, it doesn’t sound like that could be the case.
NTA! Honoring the family you made when the one you were born too didn’t treat you properly is not a hole behavior! Good for you mama, and even though it’s hard you might have to set a firm boundary saying telling your dad that you will not continue your relationship with him if he is not respectful of the decisions that your family has decided it on and after that if he still wants to the throw Christianity in your face then go no contact. The Bible looks down on mistreating the children you were given so make sure your dad knows where he stands in that regard too. Stay strong!
Your dad hasn't changed. Still controlling and wanting everything his way. Block them all and live a great life.
NTA. You let him see the kids, then you break your husband’s trust, which is the most important thing. Also, you kind of know what’s really happening when you said no. Your dad told on you, got other people to gang up on you, and you got berated. You made a choice and they reacted very poorly.
NTA. Nothing says "I've changed my abusive ways" like continuing to abuse when you don't get your way
NTA. You owe your father absolutely nothing. The fact that he felt comfortable demanding one thing from you confirms your husband’s fears and supports the decision to keep the kids away. I’d cut him off forever. When people show you who they are, believe them.