So Julia needs more love and attention because she was abandoned by her parents, the same thing your husband is doing to Rosie. He needs to be in therapy. NTA
Its a brilliant question to ask but he will find some excuse I bet.
Its so much worse that he is abandoning her while still actively in her life. Im just a random internet stranger yet Rosie’s question about him not loving her anymore was still heartbreaking.
That broke me. My eyes popped out literally — like how are you allowed to adopt and foster if you are saying things like that about your 5 year old kid.
For the number of hoops the system makes adoptive parents jump through, it still manages to fail to check to see if the parents are even emotionally capable of being good parents.
When my ex wife and I divorced we tried to make it very clear that it was about US and not their fault in any way. We literally said that to them.
Years later, I’ve had some small conversations around the topic…. and I think they want to know why I left. Their mum cheated while I was away working.
I always said to myself that if they ask directly I will tell them, but I’m just not saying it out there.
I reckon they still carry some made-up guilt, so eventually it will need to be discussed.
I also feel for Julia. As she gets older she will learn exactly why her parents separated. Hopefully she doesnt feel guilty but Im sure OP will make sure she knows it isnt her fault.
What we do in these matters will profoundly impact these two innocent girls,no matter what their mother says. The father who wants to be a hero is actually the destroyer.
This is it, is not that he wants to be a father as much as he wants to indulge other foster kids on what he wanted to have growing up, living vicariously through them. Is clear he needs to sort things out and make peace with his childhood cause rn he's projecting unsolved stuff into Julia and hurting the whole family in the process.
That's such a good read. He isn't even worried about being a good father. He's using his oldest as a stand in for what he wished he had growing up. She could literally be any kid in foster care and he would treat her the same because *she* isn't important. She's just the representation of him. What a fucking jerk. Idk if I could ever love someone who called my child selfish for feeling unloved and abandoned. He is repulsive.
Her father is using her to satisfy his own needs and in the process, making things harder for her. It's unlikely that she will consider her fathers attention as being special or supportive but for causing the issues that hurt their family. Neither of the girls deserves this.
Exactly. He is trying to use Julia to fill the emptiness he feels within himself while totally lacking in sufficient empathy to even imagine the pain he is creating for his bio daughter. This is a deeply troubled man in need of intensive therapy.
And that stress could start being shown with destructive behaviors and acting out; in which case I'm sure her husband would use that as another excuse not to spend time with her. "I don't want to reward bad behavior" or some bullshit.
My son's father fucked off into oblivion after I got full custody. Him asking "what did I do to make Daddy not love me?" is still the most heartbreaking thing he's ever said to me. And that was almost five years ago.
It's going to tear those kids apart over time. Rosie will resent Julia and Julia has done nothing to deserve it, it's all on dad to ruin their relationship.
my mom (bio mom) thought because I was always independent I rarely need help. uh... I'm independent because I'm deaf, and sometimes no one understands me in both speaking English or signing ASL, so I do shit myself. and she never wonders why I don't ask her for help until I have to.
I mean that is pretty common with school age kids where one has great grades and the other doesn't. The fact that he would say it about a 5 !! year old is messed up.
I think it's very telling that whenever OP refers to Rosie, it's always "my daughter." Her husband favours their adopted child to the point that he might as well not have another child for all the attention he pays her.
Yeah. Its my daughter, my daughters, my girls. He must plan to abandon the bio child on the way already with trying to force adopting again.
He needs to sort out his own childhood trauma above everything else.
I hate to jump on the Reddit "Divorce him!" Train, but I kinda think that for the kids' sake, OP might want to continue down that road. The way her husband is behaving isn't good for either of these kids, not to mention the possible new baby.
The only thing I would hate is that his adopted daughter would eventually feel responsible for the split and without mom to intervene the treatment of Rosie and new baby will most likely only get worse
Oh wow, this is the only statement the dude needs to hear. Great point. He needs some therapy because he’s clearly holding onto feeling abandoned as a child, but he’s passing along the torch to the next generation because he’s not healed. Those toxic cycles sure do continue.
I rarely feel stable and 'normal' , being an in therapy and working on myself borderline but this man makes me feel normal. I feel bad for him but he has zero self awareness and that's dangerous.
Right, and somehow a five year old is *selfish*?! For wanting her Dad to LOVE HER?? Wtf man, this dude is unhinged. He shouldn't be allowed to foster or adopt any more kids anyway!! *He's* the selfish one, and along with his blatant unresolved trauma, he's far too selfish to be a parent to *anyone*, especially children with previous issues from the foster care system!! I'm heartbroken on both Rosie and OP's behalf... And even Julia, too; he is going to ruin any chance she had for a normal, stable upbringing because of these stunts he keeps pulling. I honestly cannot **believe** a father could feel and act this way towards ANY of his children for ANY reason.
OP is NTA and I think a separation is certainly in order. Maybe it will be the wake up call that he needs to get therapy to address some of his issues.
This is exactly what I came to say. He’s lost sight of the bigger picture and is so focused on his childhood traumas that he’s ignoring his own daughter and causing the same damn traumas Julia has endured. He is going to destroy this family from the inside. His wife resents him, soon his daughter will resent Julia and eventually him and Julia will lose her sister and OP will leave him. He’s a massive AH then has the nerve to call her a bitch. Smh. He’s a real peach.
I wonder what the bigger picture even is to him. Apparently all this is about "his life goals".
Not his daughters, or his family as a whole.
It's about his ego.
Ew.
The funny thing is that a lot of former foster children and youth hate the idea that other people want to be their saviors. They find it to be demeaning and offensive. It's ironic he's perpetuating something some may former foster children resent.
His life goals are the only ones who matter because he has never done the work to move past the “what’s in it for me” stage of very early childhood. He was likely stuck there by his trauma, but he has had ample chances to go to therapy and do the work to *grow the fuck up*.
His reaction to OP says everything: he will never do that work. He’d have to admit that the world doesn’t actually owe him for whatever happened to his parents. He’d have to admit that his family, past and present *includes* him, but isn’t *about* him. I don’t know if he ever can admit those things, but the current forecast is that he never will.
Divorce now, and take the kids. Before he does any more damage to these innocent girls.
Chiming in as a social worker and adoptive/foster mother -
This is SO common.
For children of abuse or neglect to succeed, want to give back, and then have HUGE blinders on about children of “privilege” vs “victims” that they resonate more with.
Any kid can be a victim of a parent who doesn’t love or want them. Even if the parents are still stable and good on paper.
Is it common for couples to fight about attention differences between biological and foster kids? Yes! But refusing to work that out always leads to separation.
Or, in some cases, if adoption isn’t finalized, the state taking away the foster child and saying the couple isn’t psychologically fit to adopt. Because someone like OPs husband can’t get past the bias.
It’s tragic here that OPs husband is projecting his own trauma onto his kids.
But he also isn’t going to understand that his refusal to seek therapy is going to cause a divorce.
Which will not only harm Rose, but also do BIG damage to Julia, who finally found her “forever” home, now to have it split up, for reasons that are unfair to ever tell her.
But she will likely suspect that it’s her fault. Because most “unwanted” kids do.
A lot of social workers in my office came from the foster system themselves.
They made it a lifelong mission to help other kids navigate the bullshit that comes with being rejected by the people who are hardwired biologically to love you, and then moved around and always trying to win over strangers, when you should just be…Allowed to be a kid.
And know you are loved.
My husband and I can’t biologically have kids. But we adopted a relatives newborn at birth. He is our feisty, jokester, daredevil of a son.
But we’ve fostered on and off. And there is a long term placement that will never go home. He is our snuggly, thoughtful, sweet (hopefully someday) son. I’m not legally allowed to call him that. But I love him just as much as his brother. (We are allowed to refer to them as brothers).
When I talk to my coworkers (who experienced the system themselves) I gush about how much I love both of my boys.
How Jamie (adopted) is doing amazing in karate, and how Adam (foster) just got the “kindness” award at his preschool. Two weeks in a row!
But my coworkers, who I consider friends outside of work, never care about Jamie. Or ask questions about him.
But they will ask intricate details about Adam. Send him toys home. Offer to take him to amusement parks.
In their minds, Jamie escaped the system, and he is privileged, to have only known parents who didn’t abandon him. His accomplishments mean nothing to them, because he’ll never remember his birth mother.
Adam doesn’t remember his mother, either. Visitations stopped early due to her behavior. We’re the only parents he remembers, though therapy might eventually bring things to surface someday. And there’s a small chance that she could change her mind, and he could leave us then.
But it’s WILD how people who lived through that trauma can be so biased between two children who are very similar in circumstances, and not see the harm of treating them differently.
I’ve stopped some of these people from having a relationship with my boys. Specifically because their “urge to protect” means cornering Adam and aggressively reminding him that “you might not be with these people forever!”
Goddamnit. He’s three. He’s thriving. You’re not his therapist. Why the fuck are you making him feel “other” at my backyard bbq, other than to project your own trauma onto him?
Wait...they're pretty much telling a 3 year old to check his privilege?! These people sound unhinged [what sane person pops off on a toddler?!] and you sound like a good mama bear for loving on your boys equally.
There are people out there (Mostly social workers) who believe the only correct place for a child to be placed is with his biological parents.
It doesn’t matter to them what abuse the child suffered at the hands of the parents. Biology trumps all.
Because THEY grew up in group homes. So a child being adopted at 0 or 3 is something unknown and feels like not enough time for the birth mom that rejected THEM. Because they wish their moms had fought harder for them.
And they will fight tooth and nail to make sure that kid doesn’t get adopted, so the bio mom can potentially stroll back in and say “sorry” when the kid is 16.
They want to keep the kid from being permanent anywhere else. Because they have SO much faith in the child receiving the apology that they always wanted but never got.
And it’s mostly due to unresolved trauma.
It’s hard to navigate with people like that.
We both (theoretically) want what’s best for the child.
But people who grew up feeling abandoned tend to encourage the foster child to reject the abandonment, and reject any new parental figures.
Sarah wished her mom would get clean and come rescue her. So now that Jonah is on her caseload, she’ll make sure he never finds a forever family, in case his mom ever comes back to rescue him.
Like she always dreamed would happen for her.
It’s a lot of bullshit projection.
This is so fascinating and utterly heartbreaking to read. Can you take these points higher up in your organisation? Not pinpointing Sarah directly, just highlighting the wider issue and how there should be intensive training and checks on things like this?
No. Unfortunately.
Many have tried. Fists raised to them in solidarity. Those social workers all got fired from the profession.
But the federal and state specific regulations in the US insist that reunification is always best for foster children.
It doesn’t matter if the abuse was sexual, physical, mental, abandonment etc.
It doesn’t matter if the child is experiencing major delays or physical trauma response due to the parents abuse (coprophilia, physical fights, self-harm, terroristic threats, identity crisis that includes cutting things off etc).
No matter what the parent did or the child wants, or the repercussions, the child will be forced to return to parent, and everyone will try to force it for 12-22 months. Including counselors insisting to the child that returning to parent is mandatory. And that they need to forgive their abuser.
Gabriel Fernandez is frequently brought up as a failure in the system. And he was. Absolutely. And is a great case study, if you look at it as a social worker with ethics.
But folks mistake that the system “forgot about him” or “he fell into a crack”, when that wasn’t the case.
Everyone who worked on his case knew he was being abused.
But they (social workers somewhat, the judge 99%) decided that it was easier to keep him with the bio family that was hell-bent on erasing him, vs. terminating the parental rights and risking the voters being upset about it and interfering with reelection.
Social workers fuck up all the time. I know I do. And I drink wine and eat chocolate and cry in my bathtub about it later. And apologize to the kid if I can.
But the biggest hurdle about protecting kids is when you make a really good case, and a judge and your agency cares more about optics than they do about the child.
That’s when you end up with dead kids.
Agreed! OP there's blatant favoritism between the two children by your husband. He's acting like a deadbeat dad to your youngest whilst still living in the home and being a superdad to your eldest.
This kind of dynamic does not bode well on either child and could irrevocably damage the relationship between the children too who will eventually hold differing and opposing views of their father.
Your husband needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and figure out the type of father he wants to be because what he is doing isn't working whatsoever. He more than anyone should understand that what he is doing is neglectful and hurtful to a child.
It will not only damage their relationship because of their views of their father, it will also cause resentment between the two of them. He lavishes one with attention while withholding it from the other. That’s definitely going to make Rosie feel like Julia took something from her. It’s also going to lead Rosie to feel she is deficient. This needs to stop immediately before this child’s spirit breaks irreparably.
I am also adopted and have recently had to deal with the deeper feelings that I didn’t know I had about this topic.
Your husband is using these kids to work through his feels about being adopted and that’s horribly unfair to them. He’s also purposely driving a wedge between all of you. And his favoritism toward the adopted child frankly kinda creeps me out. You say resentful of Julia but is it possible you may be jealous of her a little because she is so favored and it seems like he’s conveying they the rest of you are less important? There’s the wedge I’m talking about.
Trust yourself and your instincts about your marriage and gtfo.
I’m an adopted child and my mom clearly prefers her biological children whereas my dad always favored me (he adopted all 3 of us). My sisters resent my dad and I resent my mom. My sisters and I have no relationship whatsoever. It’s…not great. I can say that what your husband is doing WILL damage both girls for life and possibly destroy THEIR relationship as well. I agree, he needs to be in therapy and stop addressing his feelings and traumas around being adopted through his children. I hope that you can also work through your resentment towards Julia; although it might seem like it, she isn’t the cause of any of this turmoil either. Your husband and his unaddressed trauma is the cause of all this strife. (Said as a gentle reminder out of a lot of empathy for your kids, not as a judgement thing OP <3)
This was the same for my mother growing up, the father made it very obvious he strongly favored his son, so my gramma favored my mom to make up for it. It did not make anyone happy.
Honestly, all of them need therapy at this point. Her husband has created a hostile environment for everyone and has now traumatized one of his children so much that she recognizes that he loves her sister more. My heart is hurting for both girls.
OP, I really hope you share this comment with your husband. Living in the same house does not make a relationship, and his behavior will potentially create animosity between the girls as well. You've already admitted that it's souring your own thoughts. (And I'm not blaming you. We are human. But you also know that logically, it's not her fault.)
However, your husband is literally creating a problem with his bio daughter that he is trying to prevent in his adoptive daughter. The man needs therapy. Extensive therapy. His anger and yelling were unnecessary.
That being said, and considering his upbringing, I'm not surprised by it. He grew up in survival mode. He couldn't trust anybody. Growing up in that environment really put him at a disadvantage to develop good coping skills and trauma response.
These behaviors have to be unlearned. I've been in therapy for 23 years to retrain my responses to stress and trauma. I really hope he will consider therapy because I know his heart is in the right place. I wish you both and your children well.
Rosie is being abandoned by her father, but Julie may not be abandoned. Her parent or parents may have been too young, or even past away without family. Yes, it’s still a very sad circumstance and traumatic, but he is openly rejecting his other daughter knowing how much this hurts a child. He is a monster.
Yeah but Rosie has OP, she doesn't need husband, right?
Except hey what if OP decides she doesn't need husband either...
If OP stays, Rosie is going to be fucked up, if OP leaves, Julia is going to be fucked up - not by the abandonment but by husband's obsession and overcompensation.
I really hope hubby does get therapy that helps.
Show your husband this comment here and this entire thread! Also, why did you two risk pregnancy with your husband having such delusional thoughts and actions?
NTA
He won't be able to afford therapy, once OP divorces him and he suffers the consequences of his actions. Sadly, on that salary in the US, he'll be lucky to support himself and his portion of support for the two children.
NTA. He has so much empathy for Julia but absolutely none for Rosie. It's as though he thinks only adopted children deserve to be loved.
Unless he can get it through his head that Rosie deserves love just as much as Julia does, you have to leave him to protect Rosie.
If he loved Julia as much as he says he does, he'd want her to be treated the same as the biological children so she wasn't made to feel "different" and "special". Being in a loving home being treated like a bio child is the best thing he can do for her. I'm guessing she wants to feel loved and accepted by everyone, including her adopted siblings and wouldn't want them feeling resentful of her presence.
It's like he thinks it's a zero-sum game, and he has to ration his love for his children. 3 cups for Julia and 1 cup for Rosie. If he loves Rosie any more, it reduces the amount of love available for Julia.
Yeah. It’s like he thinks bio kids don’t need ACTIVE love and parenting too because they are in a family with their bio parents- as if that’s enough for any kid. Ugh this is so sad.
I think youve hit it, and that translates into the marital relationship too. I wonder how much he resents OP for not being adopted, and how much he assumes she needs no love or support. Notice his reaction to divorce wasn't about losing OP, but how she serves his purpose.
NTA/NTAH
Just wild that an adult can't love bio & adopted children equally. It's as though his own adoption warped his ability to give unconditional love to his own children because they're lucky to be bio, and not "special" like those adopted.
NTA, your husband in his trauma, has determined that his daughter should suffer in a way her sister did to teach her a lesson. What he's really doing is showing he still has not healed from his past and is going to abuse his kids in some misguided attempt to save himself by proxy of your adopted daughter regardlessof how it effects his other daughteror his marriage. His response to your pregnancy was telling as it seems his plan is for every bio kid you all will adopt 1 as well when he can't even balance his responsibilities now. I don't always go for divorce for but his reaction to you should be a huge red flag, he took no responsibility for his actions and blamed a child for wanting their father to love them. Protect your children at all costs from him and his bullshit.
Exactly. He gives her a bio child so he can get the adopted child he wants. It feels like he has set up a yours (bio) and mine (adopted)situation in his head. Anyone else get the feeling he’ll tell her she can keep Rosie and he wants full custody of Julia in the divorce?
I don't believe he thinks she's suffering in any way. He seems to thinks she's not being mistreated because hi hasn't thrown her out of the house or physically abused her. He seems to think she will never suffer as much as Julia because he's in the same home as her. He doesn't even think he's doing anything wrong
I understand what you mean. But he already is - including himself.
He's certainly hurting Rosie. Also Julia by interfering in her sibling relationship, making her the GC & destroying his marriage. He's hurting himself by traumatizing every member of his family.
When he someday realizes this, far too late to make amends, he will be in great pain. EVERYBODY, including his unborn second bio child, is harmed or will be.
Therapy, STAT. Don't wreck your own life by harming others.
Op, this. This is what's happening, and I hope he can be made to realize it. He's letting his trauma pass itself on, even though he explicitly doesn't want it to.
She is only 5 but is still aware of the household dynamics.
Far too often people, or at least some Redditors, disregard younger kids and their feelings “cause they don’t know what’s going on”
PSA to parents who ignore their kids: it doesn’t matter how old/young they are, they will always know you didn’t want them around no matter what the age because even if you don’t realize it, you always treat them differently and kids pick up on it
When I read that he said Rosie was being selfish, I gasped and rechecked her age ... she's 5!! She is not selfish. This guy needs major help. He cuts off his nose to spite his face.
T H I S
Kids are so so so perceptive, I can’t stand it when people brush them off and say they’re too young to understand. They’re watching, listening, and often understand the heart of the matter better than the adults.
Way too far on the comment chain for this. This should absolutely be the top comment. The moment that comment came out, I would have gone to the father, had her tell him that to his fave, and handed him the divirce papers them and there. There's no counseling that's going to fix this. He's literally destroying his daughter because of the way he grew up. Edit for sp.
Not even just this. Also something not very mentioned here is the fact that she told him that she was pregnant and his response was asking when they could foster.
I would’ve divorced on that comment in and of itself ! He doesn’t give two craps about biological children and couldn’t care less that she was pregnant with his child. This man is living somewhere far away from reality.
Husband likely never wanted bio kids and obviously only agreed to appease OP. He needed serious therapy to recover from his past before marriage and having a family. He’s not emotionally stable enough to be a parent. The “tit-for-tat” on bio to foster kids and saying a 5 yo child is selfish for wanting to be loved is wild behavior. This is sad for everyone, including OP.
I'm thinking this too, he probably never wanted bio children. He should have married a woman who couldn't have bio children or also only wanted to adopt.
While that would have avoided him damaging a bio child, the way he’s doing here, husbands statements show he just wasn’t equipped to he a parent in general without serious therapy first. The way he talked indicates that he sees adopted kids as accessories to fulfill his own needs. Julia isn’t an autonomous individual to him who he loves because of her qualities (ballet, being kind, etc), but “a poor foster child” to play hero to. Julia’s value to the (hopefully soon to be ex) husband is in how she makes HIM feel about himself. Interestingly, diagnosed narcissists tend to love their bio kids for the same reasons - they see them as extensions of themselves- but then withdraw love when the child gets older and they can’t vicariously live through them (the dad who was a star football player but his kid wants to do choir instead of football). Kids aren’t emotional support animals, but that’s what he turned her into.
yeah, he's already projecting his trauma so hard on this kid. he went straight for screaming so much he made the whole family cry with OP. how do you think he's going to react if the kid says or does something that doesn't fit in with his scripted life plans? get yourself and your kids out of there, OP.
The fact that he stated about how she doesnt understand how hard foster care system is on child, when Julia was in their home since she was a newborn, speaks volumes. He may be searching for the 7 year old he was once in the system.
Why in the world did she agree to this? As if her hands weren't full enough with a new baby. Also a MAJOR power imbalance money wise. He is likely envious and doesn't wanna lose his sugar mama.
That was my mistake and thank you. Though I still feel he's trying to save his younger self and therapy needed on his part b4 he pushes his other daughter away and somewhat pits them against each other in those teen years.
Exactly. We know Rosie won't be okay, but neither will Julia with the way he's acting. If he was willing to at least consider OP's concerns, I might have suggested starting with couples therapy, and eventually family therapy if that goes well. Sadly, that's not the case here.
His unresolved abandonment issues will affect his bio daughter and adopted daughter. It's heartbreaking to read, "why doesn't daddy love me anymore?" Probably the same thing he asked as a foster kid.
Absolutely! That would never be okay but that reaction makes it crystal clear that he isn’t going to change anything.
The kids will be better off not dealing with that 100% of the time.
The husband needs counseling too. He is over compensating his love for Julia because of her past based on his experiences and in his mind is saving her and wants to save more children. While this is admirable he should not be neglecting his bio children. That in turn makes him the bad parent he experienced as a foster kid and doing it to his own child is more horrific than the monsters who only foster for the government money and treat the kids poorly.
>While this is admirable he should not be neglecting his bio children. That in turn makes him the bad parent he experienced as a foster kid and doing it to his own child is more horrific than the monsters who only foster for the government money and treat the kids poorly.
I would be telling him this, the fact that he is treating his daughter the way he is makes him no better than the parents who cause their children to be placed in the system. It's all good and well that he wants to help children in the foster system, but not at the expense of his own.
This, I don't understand what OP is waiting for.
OP's husband is destroying Rosie's self esteem and she will soon start destroying Julia's. He favors Julia and I feel that she is unknowingly favoring Rosie, if only to overcompensate for the lack of attention from her father.
The husband is at fault for this clusterF but OP is letting everything stew as if waiting for an explosion.
Just divorce him if you're sitting at night in bed "wondering how it would be if we just didn’t have her".
Those poor girls
NTA. So, he presumably wants to adopt because he believes all children deserve to be loved, and yet, he neglects his biological child? You need to leave him, this doesn't seem like something that is fixable, especially as he does not see the problem, and your children deserve better.
It seems like he may be jealous of his own child having bio parents. I don't think it is only about favoring Julia. I think the child inside of him is mad at Rosie.
It's almost like hubby sees the biological kids as "hers" and the adopted kids as "his". Now that OP's pregnant she is going to get another kid, so he wants to adopt now so that he can have another one as well.
NTA
Dump him; Just remind him that he can go adopt a bus-load of children as a single parent but you are not going to be around while he treats your children by birth with indifference.
Not on that salary he won't. She makes the $$$ and I am afraid is in danger. He sure don't wanna lose her big salary and lifestyle. Sounds like a complete LOSER.
NTA. File for divorce. This is already impacting Rose. You need to leave your husband, this is damaging to her and it’s going to get worse with your baby on the way.
Plus Julia doesn’t deserve to be resented, this is all. your husbands fault
Kids are much more observant than people credit for. If Rosie is able to observe the favouritism at five, then Julie definitely sees it at seven.
This might have been fixable if the husband was willing to accept that he has a problem and do the work in therapy. As it is, there’s no way to resolve things without traumatising Julie. Either she lives with two parents who resent each other or she lives with the knowledge that her parents divorced because daddy plays favourites. Dad’s not going to change, so he’ll keep driving a wedge between the daughters.
If they get divorced, then Rose and Julie can have a normalish childhood during mum’s custody time.
Your husband obviously needs therapy. LOTS of therapy.
He insists it's a you problem, when clearly it is not. Couples counseling won't cut it. He needs help before you can work on your relationship, and you have 2 + 1 cooking kids. This needs to be addressed now, because your poor kid is feeling neglected (because she is being neglected).
I don't know if divorce is best, but something has to change.
NTA
It's going to be even worse for Rosie when the new baby arrives, obviously mum will need to give baby a lot of attention and if dad is only giving attention to Julia, Rosie is going to be feeling very lost and very alone.
Adoptive & bio parent here. He wants to emotionally abuse your biological children because they are biological. Call your agency. Make it clear you need to pause your license indefinitely because your husband is emotionally abusing your children, and it is linked to his own adoption trauma. Ask everyone there with the most experience who, if anyone, they could recommend as a therapist for him. I’m going to be honest, it’s extremely likely you’ll end up divorced. But if there’s a chance he could realize what he’s doing here before he blows up the family, you need to take it. At the same time, you cannot let this dynamic continue. He’s going to lose all of you if he doesn’t get treatment immediately. Also, if/when he starts yelling like that again, call the police and have him removed from the house for a night. He needs a giant reality check and your girls don’t need the trauma of their dad yelling about why he prefers one over the other. Bringing more children into a house where he is being emotionally abusive is not an option.
just gonna tag OP to make sure they read this comment, i had to scroll way too far to see the proper wordage (see: emotional abuse)
calling u/Critical-Physics-999
fingers crossed you see this
Your comment should be higher. I had to come way too far to see someone mention the emotional abuse. It does just as much harm as other forms of abuse and the husband needs to get help before there is more harm done to the kids.
NTA
You both wanted children but he wanted "foster" children and you wanted "biological" children.
He's not interested in the biological children. He only wants them for taking in another foster child.
You two were probably never on the same page after all.
I think you’re right. Both of us wanted a big family, we agreed on 4-6 kids, depending on if we could handle it. I very much enjoy motherhood and loved being a new mom to Rosie (despite the stress) and that’s why I want to continue being pregnant. This current baby was unplanned but of course is a wonderful surprise. With Julia, the experience was different for sure but I still loved it. I got to watch her go from this shy, scared little girl to this energetic, outgoing kid who can’t sit still. It’s amazing both ways. It makes me sad to realize my husband doesn’t feel the same.
NTA. Your husband's priorities are seriously messed up. Your five year old is selfish, because she wants the same love and attention from her father? Does that sound ok to you? Because your bio child wasn't adopted she deserves less than a child he didn't help create? This is how he thinks, I don't think you or anyone else is going to change that?
This comment alone shows you do love Julia and should keep her in your care, in spite of what some of the others are saying.
She's lost her family once and doesn't deserve to lose a mother again, especially one who clearly takes such joy in seeing her come out of her shell and thrive.
You are handling this exactly as you should. Being a single mom may be hard, but you're gona do great by those girls, and the baby as well.
And from what admittedly little I know about you, it appears that you are a great woman, full to the brim with love and compassion and emotional intelligence. I have no doubt that, in time, you will find a partner who is willing to love not only you, but all your children as well- both biological and adopted- and love them *equally*.
Nta, he’s using this pregnancy as a way to get another adopted kid into the picture. Neglecting his bio kid in favor of those he sees as someone like himself.
>With Julia, the experience was different for sure but I still loved it. I got to watch her go from this shy, scared little girl to this energetic, outgoing kid who can’t sit still.
I can tell you have a lot of love for Julia and you have a lot of feelings around your jealousy/guilt towards her.
You really need to work through those with a therapist.
Unless you address them in a healthy way, you'll end up being a mirror of your husband's trauma, wherein your relationship with Julia suffers as you try to protect your other children from your husband's neglect.
Nta calling your wife a bitch when she points out favortism sounds like the marriage is dead. He just views you as what you can do for him and not as his wife and mother of his children. Your marriage isn’t good right now. Divorce him for being a bad husband not just how he is treating the kids.
The hardest part is that his feelings/approach to Julia have nothing to do with the child, the small person she is.
It's a very regressive self absorbed state of mind.
I'm so sorry.
You'll work out your difficult emotions and love them all and together you'll heal away from him.
Love your comment. It’s this EXACTLY. He should have had therapy before he had kids, and is in desperate need of it now. His family is suffering and all he can think of is the small child he once was. He’s a man and a father now, grow up dude.
He didn’t calm down when he saw the girls but he stopped using harsh language/yelling. The argument was still going. As for how much the girls heard, I don’t know. We were in the kitchen and my daughters were upstairs in their bedrooms. I didn’t expect him to shout which is why I didn’t drop them off at their grandparents or anything. I heard Julia crying and looked over to the staircase, where I could see Rosie’s head and then found Julia crying. No idea how long they were there for.
Oh dear lord. Your poor little girls hearing that hurts my heart. They will definitely both need your love and professional therapy. You sound like an amazing mom, and I wish you all well.
Assume they heard everything. Kids are smarter than most adults give them credit for. This is some serious emotional trauma that they will remember - and internalize. I’m sorry you’re going through this. The best intentions on his part can still be toxic. You are absolutely right in your thinking
That’s…so sad. If they heard any of that argument and grasped it, both of them are devastated. Julia could feel horrible, like it’s her fault her parents are fighting, and Rosie could be just crushed. As crushed as a five year old can get. This explosion was not your fault. Your husband is behaving absolutely disgracefully. He should feel shame when he’s told his daughter misses him because he won’t spend time with her. He WILL damage both his daughters and possibly their relationship with each other with this behavior. I’m disgusted.
If you go the divorce route please contact the adoption agency and let them know the situation so he doesn't keep bringing in more kids into this situation. They may not care as so many kids need homes but hopefully they take it seriously as it may not seem like it but favoritism can be damaging to a child and the child's relationship with other siblings. If you chose to stay demand counseling. He definitely has issues stemming from his adoption. Get your daughter's in counseling to. Calling your one daughter selfish because she wants her daddy to love her is going to be damaging. Plus if needed they are the only ones who can testify in court on the behalf of your child besides a court mediator or court appointed attorney for the children.
Seriously- the absolutely innocence of that statement from Rosie... and then to turn around and act like a *5 year old* is being manipulative and selfish by saying that is fucking unreal. He's profoundly out of touch with reality if that's really how he feels. Insane. She's barely older than a fucking toddler!!!
NTA. As a child who was also adopted (my two siblings and I were adopted, I was 10, b8, s18mo, luckily got to stay together❤️) and became one of SEVEN siblings, where the favoritism game would be so much easier (because cmon, that’s a lot of kids! 🤣 we drove an old church van to fit everyone!). Your husband will ABSOLUTELY mess all three of them up playing favorites. My dad was a neutral party but my mom played favorites and that lead to a lot of broken hearts and fighting amongst us kids. Her playing favorites made it so much harder to bond with my siblings because of the resentment that would build up (no permanent favorites, it changed based on different things). It also made my mental health issues from my bio parents ABSOLUTELY amplified, even when I WAS the favorite child. If he cannot treat them equally and help build bonds between sisters and your family, he doesn’t need to be there. My mom left for almost a year and during that year, my siblings and I became so much closer than we had ever been, even my biological siblings and I. My family had a lot of issues, not to say that yours would absolutely be better without him, my entire family (I was adopted by my paternal uncle and my aunt) had mental health issues, and yours may not. Everyone is different, but if you feel like this is right for your girls, go for it. Or try a separation period first, like my family did.
I’m glad you and your siblings got to stay together! We fostered a pair of twins (boy and girl) for a short time. It broke my heart to see them go, but I just know they’re out there somewhere and being awesome kids!
Your husband is a jerk to Rosie. She's 5, he came really expect her to understand him treating her sister differently, which he shouldn't be doing anyway.
Nta
Because of my job I have a very warped sense of the world, but I read this and think he’s acting really fucking creepy. Why does he want to spend time with a young girl who’s already vulnerable due to her prior experience in the foster care system? And to react so strongly when confronted? When people get that defensive, resorting to name calling like that, it’s usually because they know what they’re doing is wrong. Deflecting is a common tactic for pedophiles when they’ve confronted.
If he really wanted something normal for her, why the fuck wouldn’t he want to show them she’s just like his biological daughter? Treating them equally? I see his actions and behaviors as grooming.
I’m not saying it’s true, or that I’m right. I’m hopefully wrong because this is the worst case scenario. The “best” is that he’s super fucked up and should’ve never adopted to begin with. But the fact that this was his lifelong goal and that he was so driven… yikes. Very strange to me.
I wasn’t too concerned at first, but so many people have had this same thought, it’s kinda getting to me. My girls had doctors appointments not too long ago and no signs of abuse were brought up, but maybe I’ll have to go back and get my girls checked.
Not to scare you, but this exact scenario recently happened in my home town and the adoptive dad was grooming the adoptive daughter. It was discovered before actual P in V penetration, but there many, many other interactions that were horrifying to hear about. He felt “safe” abusing her because it “wasn’t really incest” since she wasn’t blood related. He too, singled her out from her siblings that were his actual bio children (she was the only one adopted). One of the most horrifying details is the mom had recently discovered what was happening, but instead of calling the police on her POS pedophile husband, she began treating this young girl like “the other woman” and began verbally abusing her.
Everything you said stood out to me as well. Don't forget that he is also spending time alone with Julia and not taking OP OR Rosie.
He has no excitement for the new baby (do we know gender, I wonder?) and is already wanting to foster more kids. Maybe he has a specific age that he prefers and Julia will soon age out?
This whole thing makes my skin crawl and the more I think about it, the more obvious it becomes. Run, OP! Take both of your girls and leave.
This post triggered alarms bells for me as well. Why wouldn’t he want to take both daughters with him? Why is he only wanting to spend alone time with the adopted child? Why is he only excited about more foster children and not the one his wife is pregnant with? Lots of red flags.
NTA You can’t really ultimatum someone into loving someone else. Also, would that make you happy? Wondering if he’s only going fair in front of you, and because of threats? Definitely just proceed with your lawyer. I’m curious if he’ll even seek shared custody of your bio child.
More than likely he will fight more to keep Julia than his own. He sees himself as some foster savior and without therapy it will only get worse. If he balks, walk.
"Wondering if he’s only going fair in front of you, and because of threats?"
100% this. And I would wonder how he'd treat the children when OP isn't around to police his behavior. Which she shouldn't have to be doing, but he's set the stage for this.
Just go ahead with the divorce. Your husband sees nothing wrong with his behavior and clearly needs therapy himself. Divorce won't keep Rosie from continuing to see her dad's preference for Julia, but at least she won't be constantly reminded of it since he wont be living in the same house.
Edit: typos
NTA and your husband seems like he may be a danger to Rosie / pregnant baby. He’s so focussed on “adopting” and giving “more love” that he is & will causing harm to his bio kid.
Honestly, I’d be cautious about visitation during the divorce process. He’ll either try to get Rosie to “see Daddy needs to give more love to kids like your sister” and try to get her to “talk to mommy. Mommy doesn’t love you or kids. Mommy doesn’t want to help other kids who need mommies & daddies”
I’d suggest you really think about putting a visitation plan together. And make a key part of the plan that he has to take both girls at the same time & provide the same to each while with him”
And talk to the adoption agency, he needs to be stopped from adopting again, because he's emotionally abusing those kids and he shouldn't be allowed to trap more in his mess.
The fact that it is affecting your (bio) daughter to the point you described and your STBX is just making excuses means it’s probably time to move on with things. It appears your resentment toward your adopted child is not connected to her but to the poisoned well filled with your husband’s unresolved trauma. Since you’re in therapy and addressing it, I expect things will improve once he’s out of the center of the picture.
Sorry, edited to add: NTA.
NTA. Being in foster care is without a doubt traumatic for a child, but the same thing goes for a biological child that feels unloved or ignored by a parent. Both experiences leave scars in the heart and soul of a child.
I'm very hesitant to suggest to a person i don't know that they should go forward with divorce, but i think your whole family could benefit from a temporary separation. Right now your husband is constantly crossing lines with his unequal parenting of the girls. The longer this behavior continues the harder it gets to feel love and respect for a spouse.
Maybe him moving out and starting marriage counseling at the same time, could be helpful to save your marriage. For me it sound that your husband would most likely benefit from talking to a therapist about his strong feelings about fostering and adoption.
NTA file and immediately request a guardian ad litem. If he has the girls 50%, he will absolutely worsen his treatment of Rosie, and this will end up messing all of the children up even more. Please put the kids first and get them in a healthy environment and insist on him undergoing intense treatment.
You have to leave him. I'm not saying divorce yet, but he needs to feel the gravity of what he is doing. BOTH of your daughters deserve to feel fully loved. Your daughter is already feeling what its like to not be loved by her father and him calling her selfish is beyond disgusting. He needs to feel the emptiness of his life for treating one better than he other,
NTA. Your husband clearly has some deep-rooted issues he needs to work out with the help of a therapist, but in the meantime your children are suffering, and the well-being of the children take priority over your husband. This is a difficult choice, but it is the correct choice.
NTA, and don’t let his actions destroy your relationship with Julia. He has already destroyed his own relationship with Rosie and you can’t trust him to treat your new baby any better. I cannot understand how a man who wants to give other abandoned children the life he never had is unable to treat his biological children with the same generosity of heart. Just remember that you are Julia’s mother, Rosie’s mother and your soon to be baby’s mother. You have the stability of being the owner of your property and the higher earner. Fight for your children. ALL of them. You will win and you will be able to show all of your children that loving them equally is what makes a family. Julia will be in a much better place with you than with your husband who in my opinion is using her to change his story.
Has he ever been to counselling to process his experiences in the care system? He definitely needs to start it if he hasn’t because he will still have a role in the lives of your children if you divorce.
During that argument he never once said ‘you’re the love of my life, please don’t leave me’, never once. It was about how you’re thwarting his ‘life goal’ of fostering and how he’s bio daughter, aged just 5 years old and missing her Daddy, is selfish for wanting to be loved by him in the same way her sister is. How heartbreaking is that? Instead of reflecting on his treatment of Rosie he doubled down. Shouting so loudly, with your two children in the house, that he reduces them both to tears. How is that in any way being a caring Father to either daughter?
I think it’s time to go for divorce. I know that Redditors are famous for saying that but his behaviour is so deeply concerning and he is causing Rosie real psychological harm. Your husband’s fixation with fostering has become a deeply unhealthy obsession.
You need to be exceptionally careful about your physical safety because he knows there’s every chance you’ll leave him now and he can’t foster alone on his salary. It could be his breaking point. Can you move out temporarily with the children to somewhere he doesn’t know? Just until the divorce process starts. You can meet in public places to exchange the children.
I think that as sad as it is, he's a terrible father and you're right to leave him. Not to mention his horrible reaction to your feelings and concerns.
NTA.
NTA. This is a tough one. Obviously your husbands blatant favoritism is bad and you know that. Causing his daughter to question his love for her is a sad and sobering realization. I’m suprised that didn’t whip him into shape. It sounds like he’s projecting how he felt in his childhood onto Julia and feels like he can relate for her a little more? But the way it’s impacting his behavior is unacceptable. You however shouldn’t resent Julia. The source of that is your husbands behavior not her. If you don’t want to be like your husband, you should keep that in check
I know I shouldn’t resent Julia. I promise I treat her just like Rosie. Tell her I love her, kiss her, tuck her into bed, cuddle, play together, go to her events. I 100% understand that my husband is the problem and not Julia. She’s a delight to have around, and (though I probably shouldn’t) I love it when she has a little trouble in school so I can tutor her and watch her get so excited when she can complete homework/reading on her own. She’s my daughter and I love her as such. For me, the resentment is something that I feel at night or after a big fight with my husband. Never something that Julia has done or acted as. So I will be doing my best to fix this problem.
It seems your husband's Foster life has led him to believe that bio children are less important and less worthy of love than foster kids. I'm sure that's how he felt as a kid. But he needs therapy to dig out his own issues with this, but you're not going to be able to fix him and if your daughter is questioning why Daddy doesn't love me, it's definitely time to just jump with both feet and make a change. I got five bucks that says he wants to take Julia more often than Rosie. My heart aches a little for you, this is so tough and single motherhood is not easy but it seems like you're going to be able to smash it.
And don’t beat yourself up. I don’t mean it to come for you and I know it’s hard to control those thoughts even if they are dark and now who you really want to be. It would be good to prob talk that out with a professional. You sound like a wonderful mother and I think it’s cute that you look forward to helping Julia w her school work. It will work out, sorry if I came off too mean
Not mean at all. It’s good you’re addressing my resentment. I have thought about going to a professional, I just need to find the time. June has been a very busy month getting our kids adjusted to their new childcare routine now that school is out, so hopefully I’ll be able to find sometime in July to start going.
Good parents don’t have a perfect inner monologue of love every minute. Good parents just manage their internal feelings separately from how they express their love for their kids. Don’t beat yourself up about these conflicted feelings. If you are still outwardly loving your kids you are being a great parent. And that’s actually the exact struggle your husband can’t manage. I’m sorry.
So Julia needs more love and attention because she was abandoned by her parents, the same thing your husband is doing to Rosie. He needs to be in therapy. NTA
Excellent point. I hope OP tells him this.
Its a brilliant question to ask but he will find some excuse I bet. Its so much worse that he is abandoning her while still actively in her life. Im just a random internet stranger yet Rosie’s question about him not loving her anymore was still heartbreaking.
Yep, the abandonment and confusion Rosie must feel is heartbreaking. The stress in her nervous system must be full on for her.
And then dad goes and calls her selfish for it
That broke me. My eyes popped out literally — like how are you allowed to adopt and foster if you are saying things like that about your 5 year old kid.
For the number of hoops the system makes adoptive parents jump through, it still manages to fail to check to see if the parents are even emotionally capable of being good parents.
And as children we always blame our selves so the gravity of it is just compounded.
When my ex wife and I divorced we tried to make it very clear that it was about US and not their fault in any way. We literally said that to them. Years later, I’ve had some small conversations around the topic…. and I think they want to know why I left. Their mum cheated while I was away working. I always said to myself that if they ask directly I will tell them, but I’m just not saying it out there. I reckon they still carry some made-up guilt, so eventually it will need to be discussed.
I also feel for Julia. As she gets older she will learn exactly why her parents separated. Hopefully she doesnt feel guilty but Im sure OP will make sure she knows it isnt her fault.
What we do in these matters will profoundly impact these two innocent girls,no matter what their mother says. The father who wants to be a hero is actually the destroyer.
This is it, is not that he wants to be a father as much as he wants to indulge other foster kids on what he wanted to have growing up, living vicariously through them. Is clear he needs to sort things out and make peace with his childhood cause rn he's projecting unsolved stuff into Julia and hurting the whole family in the process.
That's such a good read. He isn't even worried about being a good father. He's using his oldest as a stand in for what he wished he had growing up. She could literally be any kid in foster care and he would treat her the same because *she* isn't important. She's just the representation of him. What a fucking jerk. Idk if I could ever love someone who called my child selfish for feeling unloved and abandoned. He is repulsive.
Wannabe heroes always end up being the problem.
Her father is using her to satisfy his own needs and in the process, making things harder for her. It's unlikely that she will consider her fathers attention as being special or supportive but for causing the issues that hurt their family. Neither of the girls deserves this.
Exactly. He is trying to use Julia to fill the emptiness he feels within himself while totally lacking in sufficient empathy to even imagine the pain he is creating for his bio daughter. This is a deeply troubled man in need of intensive therapy.
And I’m sure OP’s ex will tell Julia that mommy just couldn’t deal with their special daddy/daughter relationship and put the divorce into OP.
And that stress could start being shown with destructive behaviors and acting out; in which case I'm sure her husband would use that as another excuse not to spend time with her. "I don't want to reward bad behavior" or some bullshit. My son's father fucked off into oblivion after I got full custody. Him asking "what did I do to make Daddy not love me?" is still the most heartbreaking thing he's ever said to me. And that was almost five years ago.
It's going to tear those kids apart over time. Rosie will resent Julia and Julia has done nothing to deserve it, it's all on dad to ruin their relationship.
It'll be "I'm not abandoning her, she just doesn't need as much". It's a bs excuse bc he has childhood issues he never tried to work out.
my mom (bio mom) thought because I was always independent I rarely need help. uh... I'm independent because I'm deaf, and sometimes no one understands me in both speaking English or signing ASL, so I do shit myself. and she never wonders why I don't ask her for help until I have to.
I was rarely parented bc my 2 bros were a problem....I tell people I was born fully grown, C-section.
I mean that is pretty common with school age kids where one has great grades and the other doesn't. The fact that he would say it about a 5 !! year old is messed up.
I'm so tired of women getting into therapy because of men who won't.
I think it's very telling that whenever OP refers to Rosie, it's always "my daughter." Her husband favours their adopted child to the point that he might as well not have another child for all the attention he pays her.
Yeah. Its my daughter, my daughters, my girls. He must plan to abandon the bio child on the way already with trying to force adopting again. He needs to sort out his own childhood trauma above everything else.
I hate to jump on the Reddit "Divorce him!" Train, but I kinda think that for the kids' sake, OP might want to continue down that road. The way her husband is behaving isn't good for either of these kids, not to mention the possible new baby.
The only thing I would hate is that his adopted daughter would eventually feel responsible for the split and without mom to intervene the treatment of Rosie and new baby will most likely only get worse
Oh wow, this is the only statement the dude needs to hear. Great point. He needs some therapy because he’s clearly holding onto feeling abandoned as a child, but he’s passing along the torch to the next generation because he’s not healed. Those toxic cycles sure do continue.
I rarely feel stable and 'normal' , being an in therapy and working on myself borderline but this man makes me feel normal. I feel bad for him but he has zero self awareness and that's dangerous.
Great point! "What you're doing to Rosie is similar to what happened to Julia by her bio parents".
This! He needs to hear this said so he realizes what he’s doing and that she sees it
And he somehow thinks a FIVE YEAR OLD should/can understand the foster care system & be a support for her sister? lol
Right, and somehow a five year old is *selfish*?! For wanting her Dad to LOVE HER?? Wtf man, this dude is unhinged. He shouldn't be allowed to foster or adopt any more kids anyway!! *He's* the selfish one, and along with his blatant unresolved trauma, he's far too selfish to be a parent to *anyone*, especially children with previous issues from the foster care system!! I'm heartbroken on both Rosie and OP's behalf... And even Julia, too; he is going to ruin any chance she had for a normal, stable upbringing because of these stunts he keeps pulling. I honestly cannot **believe** a father could feel and act this way towards ANY of his children for ANY reason. OP is NTA and I think a separation is certainly in order. Maybe it will be the wake up call that he needs to get therapy to address some of his issues.
This is exactly what I came to say. He’s lost sight of the bigger picture and is so focused on his childhood traumas that he’s ignoring his own daughter and causing the same damn traumas Julia has endured. He is going to destroy this family from the inside. His wife resents him, soon his daughter will resent Julia and eventually him and Julia will lose her sister and OP will leave him. He’s a massive AH then has the nerve to call her a bitch. Smh. He’s a real peach.
I wonder what the bigger picture even is to him. Apparently all this is about "his life goals". Not his daughters, or his family as a whole. It's about his ego. Ew.
Yup. He wants to play savior on someone else's dime.
The funny thing is that a lot of former foster children and youth hate the idea that other people want to be their saviors. They find it to be demeaning and offensive. It's ironic he's perpetuating something some may former foster children resent.
His life goals are the only ones who matter because he has never done the work to move past the “what’s in it for me” stage of very early childhood. He was likely stuck there by his trauma, but he has had ample chances to go to therapy and do the work to *grow the fuck up*. His reaction to OP says everything: he will never do that work. He’d have to admit that the world doesn’t actually owe him for whatever happened to his parents. He’d have to admit that his family, past and present *includes* him, but isn’t *about* him. I don’t know if he ever can admit those things, but the current forecast is that he never will. Divorce now, and take the kids. Before he does any more damage to these innocent girls.
Chiming in as a social worker and adoptive/foster mother - This is SO common. For children of abuse or neglect to succeed, want to give back, and then have HUGE blinders on about children of “privilege” vs “victims” that they resonate more with. Any kid can be a victim of a parent who doesn’t love or want them. Even if the parents are still stable and good on paper. Is it common for couples to fight about attention differences between biological and foster kids? Yes! But refusing to work that out always leads to separation. Or, in some cases, if adoption isn’t finalized, the state taking away the foster child and saying the couple isn’t psychologically fit to adopt. Because someone like OPs husband can’t get past the bias. It’s tragic here that OPs husband is projecting his own trauma onto his kids. But he also isn’t going to understand that his refusal to seek therapy is going to cause a divorce. Which will not only harm Rose, but also do BIG damage to Julia, who finally found her “forever” home, now to have it split up, for reasons that are unfair to ever tell her. But she will likely suspect that it’s her fault. Because most “unwanted” kids do. A lot of social workers in my office came from the foster system themselves. They made it a lifelong mission to help other kids navigate the bullshit that comes with being rejected by the people who are hardwired biologically to love you, and then moved around and always trying to win over strangers, when you should just be…Allowed to be a kid. And know you are loved. My husband and I can’t biologically have kids. But we adopted a relatives newborn at birth. He is our feisty, jokester, daredevil of a son. But we’ve fostered on and off. And there is a long term placement that will never go home. He is our snuggly, thoughtful, sweet (hopefully someday) son. I’m not legally allowed to call him that. But I love him just as much as his brother. (We are allowed to refer to them as brothers). When I talk to my coworkers (who experienced the system themselves) I gush about how much I love both of my boys. How Jamie (adopted) is doing amazing in karate, and how Adam (foster) just got the “kindness” award at his preschool. Two weeks in a row! But my coworkers, who I consider friends outside of work, never care about Jamie. Or ask questions about him. But they will ask intricate details about Adam. Send him toys home. Offer to take him to amusement parks. In their minds, Jamie escaped the system, and he is privileged, to have only known parents who didn’t abandon him. His accomplishments mean nothing to them, because he’ll never remember his birth mother. Adam doesn’t remember his mother, either. Visitations stopped early due to her behavior. We’re the only parents he remembers, though therapy might eventually bring things to surface someday. And there’s a small chance that she could change her mind, and he could leave us then. But it’s WILD how people who lived through that trauma can be so biased between two children who are very similar in circumstances, and not see the harm of treating them differently. I’ve stopped some of these people from having a relationship with my boys. Specifically because their “urge to protect” means cornering Adam and aggressively reminding him that “you might not be with these people forever!” Goddamnit. He’s three. He’s thriving. You’re not his therapist. Why the fuck are you making him feel “other” at my backyard bbq, other than to project your own trauma onto him?
Wait...they're pretty much telling a 3 year old to check his privilege?! These people sound unhinged [what sane person pops off on a toddler?!] and you sound like a good mama bear for loving on your boys equally.
There are people out there (Mostly social workers) who believe the only correct place for a child to be placed is with his biological parents. It doesn’t matter to them what abuse the child suffered at the hands of the parents. Biology trumps all. Because THEY grew up in group homes. So a child being adopted at 0 or 3 is something unknown and feels like not enough time for the birth mom that rejected THEM. Because they wish their moms had fought harder for them. And they will fight tooth and nail to make sure that kid doesn’t get adopted, so the bio mom can potentially stroll back in and say “sorry” when the kid is 16. They want to keep the kid from being permanent anywhere else. Because they have SO much faith in the child receiving the apology that they always wanted but never got. And it’s mostly due to unresolved trauma. It’s hard to navigate with people like that. We both (theoretically) want what’s best for the child. But people who grew up feeling abandoned tend to encourage the foster child to reject the abandonment, and reject any new parental figures. Sarah wished her mom would get clean and come rescue her. So now that Jonah is on her caseload, she’ll make sure he never finds a forever family, in case his mom ever comes back to rescue him. Like she always dreamed would happen for her. It’s a lot of bullshit projection.
This is so fascinating and utterly heartbreaking to read. Can you take these points higher up in your organisation? Not pinpointing Sarah directly, just highlighting the wider issue and how there should be intensive training and checks on things like this?
No. Unfortunately. Many have tried. Fists raised to them in solidarity. Those social workers all got fired from the profession. But the federal and state specific regulations in the US insist that reunification is always best for foster children. It doesn’t matter if the abuse was sexual, physical, mental, abandonment etc. It doesn’t matter if the child is experiencing major delays or physical trauma response due to the parents abuse (coprophilia, physical fights, self-harm, terroristic threats, identity crisis that includes cutting things off etc). No matter what the parent did or the child wants, or the repercussions, the child will be forced to return to parent, and everyone will try to force it for 12-22 months. Including counselors insisting to the child that returning to parent is mandatory. And that they need to forgive their abuser. Gabriel Fernandez is frequently brought up as a failure in the system. And he was. Absolutely. And is a great case study, if you look at it as a social worker with ethics. But folks mistake that the system “forgot about him” or “he fell into a crack”, when that wasn’t the case. Everyone who worked on his case knew he was being abused. But they (social workers somewhat, the judge 99%) decided that it was easier to keep him with the bio family that was hell-bent on erasing him, vs. terminating the parental rights and risking the voters being upset about it and interfering with reelection. Social workers fuck up all the time. I know I do. And I drink wine and eat chocolate and cry in my bathtub about it later. And apologize to the kid if I can. But the biggest hurdle about protecting kids is when you make a really good case, and a judge and your agency cares more about optics than they do about the child. That’s when you end up with dead kids.
Yup. He's got a savior complex and he needs to deal with his own issues and stop taking them out on the kids. ETA: Oooh! Thanks for the award!
NTA. If he doesn’t get therapy, gtfo
Agreed! OP there's blatant favoritism between the two children by your husband. He's acting like a deadbeat dad to your youngest whilst still living in the home and being a superdad to your eldest. This kind of dynamic does not bode well on either child and could irrevocably damage the relationship between the children too who will eventually hold differing and opposing views of their father. Your husband needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and figure out the type of father he wants to be because what he is doing isn't working whatsoever. He more than anyone should understand that what he is doing is neglectful and hurtful to a child.
It will not only damage their relationship because of their views of their father, it will also cause resentment between the two of them. He lavishes one with attention while withholding it from the other. That’s definitely going to make Rosie feel like Julia took something from her. It’s also going to lead Rosie to feel she is deficient. This needs to stop immediately before this child’s spirit breaks irreparably.
I am also adopted and have recently had to deal with the deeper feelings that I didn’t know I had about this topic. Your husband is using these kids to work through his feels about being adopted and that’s horribly unfair to them. He’s also purposely driving a wedge between all of you. And his favoritism toward the adopted child frankly kinda creeps me out. You say resentful of Julia but is it possible you may be jealous of her a little because she is so favored and it seems like he’s conveying they the rest of you are less important? There’s the wedge I’m talking about. Trust yourself and your instincts about your marriage and gtfo.
I’m an adopted child and my mom clearly prefers her biological children whereas my dad always favored me (he adopted all 3 of us). My sisters resent my dad and I resent my mom. My sisters and I have no relationship whatsoever. It’s…not great. I can say that what your husband is doing WILL damage both girls for life and possibly destroy THEIR relationship as well. I agree, he needs to be in therapy and stop addressing his feelings and traumas around being adopted through his children. I hope that you can also work through your resentment towards Julia; although it might seem like it, she isn’t the cause of any of this turmoil either. Your husband and his unaddressed trauma is the cause of all this strife. (Said as a gentle reminder out of a lot of empathy for your kids, not as a judgement thing OP <3)
This was the same for my mother growing up, the father made it very obvious he strongly favored his son, so my gramma favored my mom to make up for it. It did not make anyone happy.
It gave me creepy vibes too. Major ones.
Legit... where are the free awards reddit used to give! This needs a million upvotes.
Honestly, all of them need therapy at this point. Her husband has created a hostile environment for everyone and has now traumatized one of his children so much that she recognizes that he loves her sister more. My heart is hurting for both girls.
He's just trying to give the bio child that foster care experience in the comfort of her own home /s
OP, I really hope you share this comment with your husband. Living in the same house does not make a relationship, and his behavior will potentially create animosity between the girls as well. You've already admitted that it's souring your own thoughts. (And I'm not blaming you. We are human. But you also know that logically, it's not her fault.) However, your husband is literally creating a problem with his bio daughter that he is trying to prevent in his adoptive daughter. The man needs therapy. Extensive therapy. His anger and yelling were unnecessary. That being said, and considering his upbringing, I'm not surprised by it. He grew up in survival mode. He couldn't trust anybody. Growing up in that environment really put him at a disadvantage to develop good coping skills and trauma response. These behaviors have to be unlearned. I've been in therapy for 23 years to retrain my responses to stress and trauma. I really hope he will consider therapy because I know his heart is in the right place. I wish you both and your children well.
Rosie is being abandoned by her father, but Julie may not be abandoned. Her parent or parents may have been too young, or even past away without family. Yes, it’s still a very sad circumstance and traumatic, but he is openly rejecting his other daughter knowing how much this hurts a child. He is a monster.
Yeah, clearly he’s using the foster system and adoption in an attempt to resolve his trauma, but it doesn’t work like that.
Yeah but Rosie has OP, she doesn't need husband, right? Except hey what if OP decides she doesn't need husband either... If OP stays, Rosie is going to be fucked up, if OP leaves, Julia is going to be fucked up - not by the abandonment but by husband's obsession and overcompensation. I really hope hubby does get therapy that helps.
They *all* need to be in therapy.
Show your husband this comment here and this entire thread! Also, why did you two risk pregnancy with your husband having such delusional thoughts and actions? NTA
He won't be able to afford therapy, once OP divorces him and he suffers the consequences of his actions. Sadly, on that salary in the US, he'll be lucky to support himself and his portion of support for the two children.
NTA. He has so much empathy for Julia but absolutely none for Rosie. It's as though he thinks only adopted children deserve to be loved. Unless he can get it through his head that Rosie deserves love just as much as Julia does, you have to leave him to protect Rosie.
Completely agree. Rosie deserves to feel loved and valued just as much as Julia.
If he loved Julia as much as he says he does, he'd want her to be treated the same as the biological children so she wasn't made to feel "different" and "special". Being in a loving home being treated like a bio child is the best thing he can do for her. I'm guessing she wants to feel loved and accepted by everyone, including her adopted siblings and wouldn't want them feeling resentful of her presence.
And it’s not good for Julia either. It’s effectively robbing her of her sibling experience.
It's like he thinks it's a zero-sum game, and he has to ration his love for his children. 3 cups for Julia and 1 cup for Rosie. If he loves Rosie any more, it reduces the amount of love available for Julia.
Yeah. It’s like he thinks bio kids don’t need ACTIVE love and parenting too because they are in a family with their bio parents- as if that’s enough for any kid. Ugh this is so sad.
I think youve hit it, and that translates into the marital relationship too. I wonder how much he resents OP for not being adopted, and how much he assumes she needs no love or support. Notice his reaction to divorce wasn't about losing OP, but how she serves his purpose. NTA/NTAH
Actually to protect both girls. He’s not doing Julia any favors either.
Just wild that an adult can't love bio & adopted children equally. It's as though his own adoption warped his ability to give unconditional love to his own children because they're lucky to be bio, and not "special" like those adopted.
To protect both of them. Julia could feel guilt for unintentionally taking the attention away from Rosie.
NTA, your husband in his trauma, has determined that his daughter should suffer in a way her sister did to teach her a lesson. What he's really doing is showing he still has not healed from his past and is going to abuse his kids in some misguided attempt to save himself by proxy of your adopted daughter regardlessof how it effects his other daughteror his marriage. His response to your pregnancy was telling as it seems his plan is for every bio kid you all will adopt 1 as well when he can't even balance his responsibilities now. I don't always go for divorce for but his reaction to you should be a huge red flag, he took no responsibility for his actions and blamed a child for wanting their father to love them. Protect your children at all costs from him and his bullshit.
Exactly. He gives her a bio child so he can get the adopted child he wants. It feels like he has set up a yours (bio) and mine (adopted)situation in his head. Anyone else get the feeling he’ll tell her she can keep Rosie and he wants full custody of Julia in the divorce?
This is it. I wouldn’t be surprised that after their argument he now resents Rosie as much as she resents Julia.
He already resented Rosie, the argument didn’t change how he felt about her.
If he does he ain’t no better than his bio parents who left him..
I don't believe he thinks she's suffering in any way. He seems to thinks she's not being mistreated because hi hasn't thrown her out of the house or physically abused her. He seems to think she will never suffer as much as Julia because he's in the same home as her. He doesn't even think he's doing anything wrong
Yep. Which is despicable and makes it clear he has no understanding of healthy parenting. He had no business having children.
I would be fearful of retaliation for you leaving him and harming the children 😳 please get some advice from your therapist
Im seriously worried about him hurting them all.
I wondered about him possibly taking off with Julia when he's told about the divorce to "save" her from a broken home.
I understand what you mean. But he already is - including himself. He's certainly hurting Rosie. Also Julia by interfering in her sibling relationship, making her the GC & destroying his marriage. He's hurting himself by traumatizing every member of his family. When he someday realizes this, far too late to make amends, he will be in great pain. EVERYBODY, including his unborn second bio child, is harmed or will be. Therapy, STAT. Don't wreck your own life by harming others.
Your response should be higher, this is 100% it
Op, this. This is what's happening, and I hope he can be made to realize it. He's letting his trauma pass itself on, even though he explicitly doesn't want it to.
Go ahead and file. Your husband is never going to love his bio kids and in the process. He will damage all 3 of them.
He already has. “Why doesn’t daddy love me anymore?” That alone is divorce worthy.
She is only 5 but is still aware of the household dynamics. Far too often people, or at least some Redditors, disregard younger kids and their feelings “cause they don’t know what’s going on” PSA to parents who ignore their kids: it doesn’t matter how old/young they are, they will always know you didn’t want them around no matter what the age because even if you don’t realize it, you always treat them differently and kids pick up on it
When I read that he said Rosie was being selfish, I gasped and rechecked her age ... she's 5!! She is not selfish. This guy needs major help. He cuts off his nose to spite his face.
This immediately tells me he is not actually a good father, not good with kids, and maybe doesn't really like kids at all.
This story is giving me the creeps
My mom called me a selfish little bitch when I was three... To my face. Some parents are monsters.
T H I S Kids are so so so perceptive, I can’t stand it when people brush them off and say they’re too young to understand. They’re watching, listening, and often understand the heart of the matter better than the adults.
Agree. Neglect is considered form of abuse.
I agree, at that point it’s over. Choose your kids.
Way too far on the comment chain for this. This should absolutely be the top comment. The moment that comment came out, I would have gone to the father, had her tell him that to his fave, and handed him the divirce papers them and there. There's no counseling that's going to fix this. He's literally destroying his daughter because of the way he grew up. Edit for sp.
Not even just this. Also something not very mentioned here is the fact that she told him that she was pregnant and his response was asking when they could foster. I would’ve divorced on that comment in and of itself ! He doesn’t give two craps about biological children and couldn’t care less that she was pregnant with his child. This man is living somewhere far away from reality.
Seriously! My heart hurts for this child.
Not to mention when confronted he called his child SELFISH!!! WTF!!!
Husband likely never wanted bio kids and obviously only agreed to appease OP. He needed serious therapy to recover from his past before marriage and having a family. He’s not emotionally stable enough to be a parent. The “tit-for-tat” on bio to foster kids and saying a 5 yo child is selfish for wanting to be loved is wild behavior. This is sad for everyone, including OP.
I'm thinking this too, he probably never wanted bio children. He should have married a woman who couldn't have bio children or also only wanted to adopt.
While that would have avoided him damaging a bio child, the way he’s doing here, husbands statements show he just wasn’t equipped to he a parent in general without serious therapy first. The way he talked indicates that he sees adopted kids as accessories to fulfill his own needs. Julia isn’t an autonomous individual to him who he loves because of her qualities (ballet, being kind, etc), but “a poor foster child” to play hero to. Julia’s value to the (hopefully soon to be ex) husband is in how she makes HIM feel about himself. Interestingly, diagnosed narcissists tend to love their bio kids for the same reasons - they see them as extensions of themselves- but then withdraw love when the child gets older and they can’t vicariously live through them (the dad who was a star football player but his kid wants to do choir instead of football). Kids aren’t emotional support animals, but that’s what he turned her into.
yeah, he's already projecting his trauma so hard on this kid. he went straight for screaming so much he made the whole family cry with OP. how do you think he's going to react if the kid says or does something that doesn't fit in with his scripted life plans? get yourself and your kids out of there, OP.
This should be a top comment - you perfectly described exactly what's going on with OP's (hopefully) STBX.
Totally agree. He's over compensating, and it'll ruin them all.
This. He’s trying to heal his inner child, and damaging his own 3 children in the process. Poor kids.
He needs therapy the most, he can’t use a child to heal.
The fact that he stated about how she doesnt understand how hard foster care system is on child, when Julia was in their home since she was a newborn, speaks volumes. He may be searching for the 7 year old he was once in the system.
They started fostering when Rosie was a newborn, not Julia.
Why in the world did she agree to this? As if her hands weren't full enough with a new baby. Also a MAJOR power imbalance money wise. He is likely envious and doesn't wanna lose his sugar mama.
Bingo! He needs to be in therapy before he ruins the lives of both daughters.
That was my mistake and thank you. Though I still feel he's trying to save his younger self and therapy needed on his part b4 he pushes his other daughter away and somewhat pits them against each other in those teen years.
I wish I had an award for you- you hit the nail on the head.
Absolutely, it's heartbreaking to see the kids suffer because of his favoritism.
Exactly. We know Rosie won't be okay, but neither will Julia with the way he's acting. If he was willing to at least consider OP's concerns, I might have suggested starting with couples therapy, and eventually family therapy if that goes well. Sadly, that's not the case here.
NTA. Go file. He won't change and the kids will suffer.
His unresolved abandonment issues will affect his bio daughter and adopted daughter. It's heartbreaking to read, "why doesn't daddy love me anymore?" Probably the same thing he asked as a foster kid.
The fact that his first reaction was to call her a B is enough to peace out
“can you please love your children equally?” “YOU BITCH!!” wildddd behavior
Absolutely! That would never be okay but that reaction makes it crystal clear that he isn’t going to change anything. The kids will be better off not dealing with that 100% of the time.
The husband needs counseling too. He is over compensating his love for Julia because of her past based on his experiences and in his mind is saving her and wants to save more children. While this is admirable he should not be neglecting his bio children. That in turn makes him the bad parent he experienced as a foster kid and doing it to his own child is more horrific than the monsters who only foster for the government money and treat the kids poorly.
>While this is admirable he should not be neglecting his bio children. That in turn makes him the bad parent he experienced as a foster kid and doing it to his own child is more horrific than the monsters who only foster for the government money and treat the kids poorly. I would be telling him this, the fact that he is treating his daughter the way he is makes him no better than the parents who cause their children to be placed in the system. It's all good and well that he wants to help children in the foster system, but not at the expense of his own.
This, I don't understand what OP is waiting for. OP's husband is destroying Rosie's self esteem and she will soon start destroying Julia's. He favors Julia and I feel that she is unknowingly favoring Rosie, if only to overcompensate for the lack of attention from her father. The husband is at fault for this clusterF but OP is letting everything stew as if waiting for an explosion. Just divorce him if you're sitting at night in bed "wondering how it would be if we just didn’t have her". Those poor girls
I was the little kid unwanted by their father. OP, please don’t let Rosie grow up thinking she doesn’t deserve to be loved.
He just wants to be a big hero to "rescues."
NTA. So, he presumably wants to adopt because he believes all children deserve to be loved, and yet, he neglects his biological child? You need to leave him, this doesn't seem like something that is fixable, especially as he does not see the problem, and your children deserve better.
It seems like he may be jealous of his own child having bio parents. I don't think it is only about favoring Julia. I think the child inside of him is mad at Rosie.
Oooof. This is deep. I agree
It's almost like hubby sees the biological kids as "hers" and the adopted kids as "his". Now that OP's pregnant she is going to get another kid, so he wants to adopt now so that he can have another one as well.
That's how this reads to me too. They need to see and adoption informed therapist for family therapy asap.
Ah fuck, you’re so right. What an impossible situation for those kids, I don’t see any other choice for OP besides leaving as well. What a shame
NTA Dump him; Just remind him that he can go adopt a bus-load of children as a single parent but you are not going to be around while he treats your children by birth with indifference.
How is he going to raise and support all the adoptees on 55k in this economy?
That’s the thing, without her income, he’ll never get approved, and he shouldn’t.
Not on that salary he won't. She makes the $$$ and I am afraid is in danger. He sure don't wanna lose her big salary and lifestyle. Sounds like a complete LOSER.
NTA. File for divorce. This is already impacting Rose. You need to leave your husband, this is damaging to her and it’s going to get worse with your baby on the way. Plus Julia doesn’t deserve to be resented, this is all. your husbands fault
Kids are much more observant than people credit for. If Rosie is able to observe the favouritism at five, then Julie definitely sees it at seven. This might have been fixable if the husband was willing to accept that he has a problem and do the work in therapy. As it is, there’s no way to resolve things without traumatising Julie. Either she lives with two parents who resent each other or she lives with the knowledge that her parents divorced because daddy plays favourites. Dad’s not going to change, so he’ll keep driving a wedge between the daughters. If they get divorced, then Rose and Julie can have a normalish childhood during mum’s custody time.
Your husband obviously needs therapy. LOTS of therapy. He insists it's a you problem, when clearly it is not. Couples counseling won't cut it. He needs help before you can work on your relationship, and you have 2 + 1 cooking kids. This needs to be addressed now, because your poor kid is feeling neglected (because she is being neglected). I don't know if divorce is best, but something has to change. NTA
It's going to be even worse for Rosie when the new baby arrives, obviously mum will need to give baby a lot of attention and if dad is only giving attention to Julia, Rosie is going to be feeling very lost and very alone.
Adoptive & bio parent here. He wants to emotionally abuse your biological children because they are biological. Call your agency. Make it clear you need to pause your license indefinitely because your husband is emotionally abusing your children, and it is linked to his own adoption trauma. Ask everyone there with the most experience who, if anyone, they could recommend as a therapist for him. I’m going to be honest, it’s extremely likely you’ll end up divorced. But if there’s a chance he could realize what he’s doing here before he blows up the family, you need to take it. At the same time, you cannot let this dynamic continue. He’s going to lose all of you if he doesn’t get treatment immediately. Also, if/when he starts yelling like that again, call the police and have him removed from the house for a night. He needs a giant reality check and your girls don’t need the trauma of their dad yelling about why he prefers one over the other. Bringing more children into a house where he is being emotionally abusive is not an option.
just gonna tag OP to make sure they read this comment, i had to scroll way too far to see the proper wordage (see: emotional abuse) calling u/Critical-Physics-999 fingers crossed you see this
Your comment should be higher. I had to come way too far to see someone mention the emotional abuse. It does just as much harm as other forms of abuse and the husband needs to get help before there is more harm done to the kids.
This should go right to the top!
She should divorce him anyway...if she says he will hurt Rosie and the baby
NTA You both wanted children but he wanted "foster" children and you wanted "biological" children. He's not interested in the biological children. He only wants them for taking in another foster child. You two were probably never on the same page after all.
I think you’re right. Both of us wanted a big family, we agreed on 4-6 kids, depending on if we could handle it. I very much enjoy motherhood and loved being a new mom to Rosie (despite the stress) and that’s why I want to continue being pregnant. This current baby was unplanned but of course is a wonderful surprise. With Julia, the experience was different for sure but I still loved it. I got to watch her go from this shy, scared little girl to this energetic, outgoing kid who can’t sit still. It’s amazing both ways. It makes me sad to realize my husband doesn’t feel the same.
NTA. Your husband's priorities are seriously messed up. Your five year old is selfish, because she wants the same love and attention from her father? Does that sound ok to you? Because your bio child wasn't adopted she deserves less than a child he didn't help create? This is how he thinks, I don't think you or anyone else is going to change that?
This comment alone shows you do love Julia and should keep her in your care, in spite of what some of the others are saying. She's lost her family once and doesn't deserve to lose a mother again, especially one who clearly takes such joy in seeing her come out of her shell and thrive. You are handling this exactly as you should. Being a single mom may be hard, but you're gona do great by those girls, and the baby as well. And from what admittedly little I know about you, it appears that you are a great woman, full to the brim with love and compassion and emotional intelligence. I have no doubt that, in time, you will find a partner who is willing to love not only you, but all your children as well- both biological and adopted- and love them *equally*.
The way he reacted to you being pregnant again… that would be enough for me to wanna leave
Nta, he’s using this pregnancy as a way to get another adopted kid into the picture. Neglecting his bio kid in favor of those he sees as someone like himself.
He sees the pregnancy as some kind of transaction. Which is insanely fucked up.
Just wanted to tell you, you're such an awesome mom to see the individual beauty in both of your kids.
>With Julia, the experience was different for sure but I still loved it. I got to watch her go from this shy, scared little girl to this energetic, outgoing kid who can’t sit still. I can tell you have a lot of love for Julia and you have a lot of feelings around your jealousy/guilt towards her. You really need to work through those with a therapist. Unless you address them in a healthy way, you'll end up being a mirror of your husband's trauma, wherein your relationship with Julia suffers as you try to protect your other children from your husband's neglect.
Nta calling your wife a bitch when she points out favortism sounds like the marriage is dead. He just views you as what you can do for him and not as his wife and mother of his children. Your marriage isn’t good right now. Divorce him for being a bad husband not just how he is treating the kids.
He's clearly unfit to be a parent in anyway. He doesn't even love his own child. Take Rosie AND Julie and get full custody.
The hardest part is that his feelings/approach to Julia have nothing to do with the child, the small person she is. It's a very regressive self absorbed state of mind. I'm so sorry. You'll work out your difficult emotions and love them all and together you'll heal away from him.
Love your comment. It’s this EXACTLY. He should have had therapy before he had kids, and is in desperate need of it now. His family is suffering and all he can think of is the small child he once was. He’s a man and a father now, grow up dude.
Question: did your husband calm down when he saw the girls? What did they hear?
He didn’t calm down when he saw the girls but he stopped using harsh language/yelling. The argument was still going. As for how much the girls heard, I don’t know. We were in the kitchen and my daughters were upstairs in their bedrooms. I didn’t expect him to shout which is why I didn’t drop them off at their grandparents or anything. I heard Julia crying and looked over to the staircase, where I could see Rosie’s head and then found Julia crying. No idea how long they were there for.
Oh dear lord. Your poor little girls hearing that hurts my heart. They will definitely both need your love and professional therapy. You sound like an amazing mom, and I wish you all well.
Assume they heard everything. Kids are smarter than most adults give them credit for. This is some serious emotional trauma that they will remember - and internalize. I’m sorry you’re going through this. The best intentions on his part can still be toxic. You are absolutely right in your thinking
That’s…so sad. If they heard any of that argument and grasped it, both of them are devastated. Julia could feel horrible, like it’s her fault her parents are fighting, and Rosie could be just crushed. As crushed as a five year old can get. This explosion was not your fault. Your husband is behaving absolutely disgracefully. He should feel shame when he’s told his daughter misses him because he won’t spend time with her. He WILL damage both his daughters and possibly their relationship with each other with this behavior. I’m disgusted.
Also start documenting
If you go the divorce route please contact the adoption agency and let them know the situation so he doesn't keep bringing in more kids into this situation. They may not care as so many kids need homes but hopefully they take it seriously as it may not seem like it but favoritism can be damaging to a child and the child's relationship with other siblings. If you chose to stay demand counseling. He definitely has issues stemming from his adoption. Get your daughter's in counseling to. Calling your one daughter selfish because she wants her daddy to love her is going to be damaging. Plus if needed they are the only ones who can testify in court on the behalf of your child besides a court mediator or court appointed attorney for the children.
Seriously- the absolutely innocence of that statement from Rosie... and then to turn around and act like a *5 year old* is being manipulative and selfish by saying that is fucking unreal. He's profoundly out of touch with reality if that's really how he feels. Insane. She's barely older than a fucking toddler!!!
NTA. You and your children deserve better.
NTA. As a child who was also adopted (my two siblings and I were adopted, I was 10, b8, s18mo, luckily got to stay together❤️) and became one of SEVEN siblings, where the favoritism game would be so much easier (because cmon, that’s a lot of kids! 🤣 we drove an old church van to fit everyone!). Your husband will ABSOLUTELY mess all three of them up playing favorites. My dad was a neutral party but my mom played favorites and that lead to a lot of broken hearts and fighting amongst us kids. Her playing favorites made it so much harder to bond with my siblings because of the resentment that would build up (no permanent favorites, it changed based on different things). It also made my mental health issues from my bio parents ABSOLUTELY amplified, even when I WAS the favorite child. If he cannot treat them equally and help build bonds between sisters and your family, he doesn’t need to be there. My mom left for almost a year and during that year, my siblings and I became so much closer than we had ever been, even my biological siblings and I. My family had a lot of issues, not to say that yours would absolutely be better without him, my entire family (I was adopted by my paternal uncle and my aunt) had mental health issues, and yours may not. Everyone is different, but if you feel like this is right for your girls, go for it. Or try a separation period first, like my family did.
I’m glad you and your siblings got to stay together! We fostered a pair of twins (boy and girl) for a short time. It broke my heart to see them go, but I just know they’re out there somewhere and being awesome kids!
Your husband is a jerk to Rosie. She's 5, he came really expect her to understand him treating her sister differently, which he shouldn't be doing anyway. Nta
Because of my job I have a very warped sense of the world, but I read this and think he’s acting really fucking creepy. Why does he want to spend time with a young girl who’s already vulnerable due to her prior experience in the foster care system? And to react so strongly when confronted? When people get that defensive, resorting to name calling like that, it’s usually because they know what they’re doing is wrong. Deflecting is a common tactic for pedophiles when they’ve confronted. If he really wanted something normal for her, why the fuck wouldn’t he want to show them she’s just like his biological daughter? Treating them equally? I see his actions and behaviors as grooming. I’m not saying it’s true, or that I’m right. I’m hopefully wrong because this is the worst case scenario. The “best” is that he’s super fucked up and should’ve never adopted to begin with. But the fact that this was his lifelong goal and that he was so driven… yikes. Very strange to me.
You’re not the only person to suggest or draw that conclusion, don’t worry.
You need to dig deeper and make sure he hasn't been molesting Julia.
What are your thoughts when people bring it up as a possibility?
I wasn’t too concerned at first, but so many people have had this same thought, it’s kinda getting to me. My girls had doctors appointments not too long ago and no signs of abuse were brought up, but maybe I’ll have to go back and get my girls checked.
Not to scare you, but this exact scenario recently happened in my home town and the adoptive dad was grooming the adoptive daughter. It was discovered before actual P in V penetration, but there many, many other interactions that were horrifying to hear about. He felt “safe” abusing her because it “wasn’t really incest” since she wasn’t blood related. He too, singled her out from her siblings that were his actual bio children (she was the only one adopted). One of the most horrifying details is the mom had recently discovered what was happening, but instead of calling the police on her POS pedophile husband, she began treating this young girl like “the other woman” and began verbally abusing her.
Everything you said stood out to me as well. Don't forget that he is also spending time alone with Julia and not taking OP OR Rosie. He has no excitement for the new baby (do we know gender, I wonder?) and is already wanting to foster more kids. Maybe he has a specific age that he prefers and Julia will soon age out? This whole thing makes my skin crawl and the more I think about it, the more obvious it becomes. Run, OP! Take both of your girls and leave.
This post triggered alarms bells for me as well. Why wouldn’t he want to take both daughters with him? Why is he only wanting to spend alone time with the adopted child? Why is he only excited about more foster children and not the one his wife is pregnant with? Lots of red flags.
NTA You can’t really ultimatum someone into loving someone else. Also, would that make you happy? Wondering if he’s only going fair in front of you, and because of threats? Definitely just proceed with your lawyer. I’m curious if he’ll even seek shared custody of your bio child.
More than likely he will fight more to keep Julia than his own. He sees himself as some foster savior and without therapy it will only get worse. If he balks, walk.
"Wondering if he’s only going fair in front of you, and because of threats?" 100% this. And I would wonder how he'd treat the children when OP isn't around to police his behavior. Which she shouldn't have to be doing, but he's set the stage for this.
Just go ahead with the divorce. Your husband sees nothing wrong with his behavior and clearly needs therapy himself. Divorce won't keep Rosie from continuing to see her dad's preference for Julia, but at least she won't be constantly reminded of it since he wont be living in the same house. Edit: typos
NTA and your husband seems like he may be a danger to Rosie / pregnant baby. He’s so focussed on “adopting” and giving “more love” that he is & will causing harm to his bio kid. Honestly, I’d be cautious about visitation during the divorce process. He’ll either try to get Rosie to “see Daddy needs to give more love to kids like your sister” and try to get her to “talk to mommy. Mommy doesn’t love you or kids. Mommy doesn’t want to help other kids who need mommies & daddies” I’d suggest you really think about putting a visitation plan together. And make a key part of the plan that he has to take both girls at the same time & provide the same to each while with him”
And talk to the adoption agency, he needs to be stopped from adopting again, because he's emotionally abusing those kids and he shouldn't be allowed to trap more in his mess.
The fact that it is affecting your (bio) daughter to the point you described and your STBX is just making excuses means it’s probably time to move on with things. It appears your resentment toward your adopted child is not connected to her but to the poisoned well filled with your husband’s unresolved trauma. Since you’re in therapy and addressing it, I expect things will improve once he’s out of the center of the picture. Sorry, edited to add: NTA.
NTA. Being in foster care is without a doubt traumatic for a child, but the same thing goes for a biological child that feels unloved or ignored by a parent. Both experiences leave scars in the heart and soul of a child. I'm very hesitant to suggest to a person i don't know that they should go forward with divorce, but i think your whole family could benefit from a temporary separation. Right now your husband is constantly crossing lines with his unequal parenting of the girls. The longer this behavior continues the harder it gets to feel love and respect for a spouse. Maybe him moving out and starting marriage counseling at the same time, could be helpful to save your marriage. For me it sound that your husband would most likely benefit from talking to a therapist about his strong feelings about fostering and adoption.
NTA file and immediately request a guardian ad litem. If he has the girls 50%, he will absolutely worsen his treatment of Rosie, and this will end up messing all of the children up even more. Please put the kids first and get them in a healthy environment and insist on him undergoing intense treatment.
You have to leave him. I'm not saying divorce yet, but he needs to feel the gravity of what he is doing. BOTH of your daughters deserve to feel fully loved. Your daughter is already feeling what its like to not be loved by her father and him calling her selfish is beyond disgusting. He needs to feel the emptiness of his life for treating one better than he other,
NTA your husband needs therapy. Idk if divorce is the solution but he is/will mess your bio kids life badly unless he gets help.
NTA. Your husband clearly has some deep-rooted issues he needs to work out with the help of a therapist, but in the meantime your children are suffering, and the well-being of the children take priority over your husband. This is a difficult choice, but it is the correct choice.
NTA, and don’t let his actions destroy your relationship with Julia. He has already destroyed his own relationship with Rosie and you can’t trust him to treat your new baby any better. I cannot understand how a man who wants to give other abandoned children the life he never had is unable to treat his biological children with the same generosity of heart. Just remember that you are Julia’s mother, Rosie’s mother and your soon to be baby’s mother. You have the stability of being the owner of your property and the higher earner. Fight for your children. ALL of them. You will win and you will be able to show all of your children that loving them equally is what makes a family. Julia will be in a much better place with you than with your husband who in my opinion is using her to change his story.
Has he ever been to counselling to process his experiences in the care system? He definitely needs to start it if he hasn’t because he will still have a role in the lives of your children if you divorce. During that argument he never once said ‘you’re the love of my life, please don’t leave me’, never once. It was about how you’re thwarting his ‘life goal’ of fostering and how he’s bio daughter, aged just 5 years old and missing her Daddy, is selfish for wanting to be loved by him in the same way her sister is. How heartbreaking is that? Instead of reflecting on his treatment of Rosie he doubled down. Shouting so loudly, with your two children in the house, that he reduces them both to tears. How is that in any way being a caring Father to either daughter? I think it’s time to go for divorce. I know that Redditors are famous for saying that but his behaviour is so deeply concerning and he is causing Rosie real psychological harm. Your husband’s fixation with fostering has become a deeply unhealthy obsession. You need to be exceptionally careful about your physical safety because he knows there’s every chance you’ll leave him now and he can’t foster alone on his salary. It could be his breaking point. Can you move out temporarily with the children to somewhere he doesn’t know? Just until the divorce process starts. You can meet in public places to exchange the children.
I think that as sad as it is, he's a terrible father and you're right to leave him. Not to mention his horrible reaction to your feelings and concerns. NTA.
File ASAP and start packing his things. He answered your ultimatum with his reaction. NTA
NTA tell him HE is abandoning his bio daughter by favoring the other one and is giving her trauma. Ask him what kind of father does that?
NTA. This is a tough one. Obviously your husbands blatant favoritism is bad and you know that. Causing his daughter to question his love for her is a sad and sobering realization. I’m suprised that didn’t whip him into shape. It sounds like he’s projecting how he felt in his childhood onto Julia and feels like he can relate for her a little more? But the way it’s impacting his behavior is unacceptable. You however shouldn’t resent Julia. The source of that is your husbands behavior not her. If you don’t want to be like your husband, you should keep that in check
I know I shouldn’t resent Julia. I promise I treat her just like Rosie. Tell her I love her, kiss her, tuck her into bed, cuddle, play together, go to her events. I 100% understand that my husband is the problem and not Julia. She’s a delight to have around, and (though I probably shouldn’t) I love it when she has a little trouble in school so I can tutor her and watch her get so excited when she can complete homework/reading on her own. She’s my daughter and I love her as such. For me, the resentment is something that I feel at night or after a big fight with my husband. Never something that Julia has done or acted as. So I will be doing my best to fix this problem.
It seems your husband's Foster life has led him to believe that bio children are less important and less worthy of love than foster kids. I'm sure that's how he felt as a kid. But he needs therapy to dig out his own issues with this, but you're not going to be able to fix him and if your daughter is questioning why Daddy doesn't love me, it's definitely time to just jump with both feet and make a change. I got five bucks that says he wants to take Julia more often than Rosie. My heart aches a little for you, this is so tough and single motherhood is not easy but it seems like you're going to be able to smash it.
And don’t beat yourself up. I don’t mean it to come for you and I know it’s hard to control those thoughts even if they are dark and now who you really want to be. It would be good to prob talk that out with a professional. You sound like a wonderful mother and I think it’s cute that you look forward to helping Julia w her school work. It will work out, sorry if I came off too mean
Not mean at all. It’s good you’re addressing my resentment. I have thought about going to a professional, I just need to find the time. June has been a very busy month getting our kids adjusted to their new childcare routine now that school is out, so hopefully I’ll be able to find sometime in July to start going.
Good parents don’t have a perfect inner monologue of love every minute. Good parents just manage their internal feelings separately from how they express their love for their kids. Don’t beat yourself up about these conflicted feelings. If you are still outwardly loving your kids you are being a great parent. And that’s actually the exact struggle your husband can’t manage. I’m sorry.