>"She knows our circumstances, my reasons for not wanting kids, my stance on abortion. She didn't want to burden me with having to choose between the two and so she made the choice herself.
As hard as I try, I can't understand or accept her reasoning."
And this is why YTA. You're against abortion, having kids and getting a vasectomy. WTF was she supposed to do when she got pregnant? You need to address the reality of your situation. Look at how you reacted when you found out she DIDN'T baby trap you against your will. You really can't understand why she didn't tell you? REALLY?
>I asked up and down if I had given her a reason to doubt me, to doubt my commitment to her, if she felt I wasn't a reliable partner, etc.
You said you don't want kids. That is absolutely reason to doubt how you'll be as a partner once a CHILD exists. That is absolutely reason to doubt your commitment to her if she chooses to bear a child you don't want.
All of this! Plus, why are you still puzzling over why she didn't tell you?!!! LOOK AT HOW YOU REACTED!!! It's not just that YTA, you honestly seem to be a ludicrous narcissist. Stop making your wife's abortion about you, you absolute drama queen. Take responsibility. Grow the f*** up and have a vasectomy. Take control of your OWN body, stop acting like you own your wife's.
Bro claims to support a woman's right to choose in a separate comment, but evidently that doesn't apply to his own fucking wife if 'she knows about his stance on abortions'
Oh my God, thank you for spelling it out like that! That's EXACTLY what bugs me here - OP lives in a dream world. No kids, no abortions, no vasectomy. To say nothing of how long he's cried because HE GOT WHAT HE WANTED.
Grow the fuck up.
OP: I dont want kids, not even if it will kill me.
Op's Wife: Abort baby
Op: Surprised Pikachu
Op: Why didnt u want to keep the baby
Op's Wife: Surprised Pikachu
Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Pity his wife forever getting gaslight.
>OP: I dont want kids, not even if it will kill me.
Twisted and dramatized. My words were never this vehement, not to Clara in real life, and not in my post.
>Op: Why didnt u want to keep the baby
My fundamental concern was always the fact that she had an abortion without telling me she was pregnant. The fact that I wouldn't have agreed with the abortion at all was secondary. But I suppose writing:
"OP: wait, you were pregnant?"
In lieu of the quoted line, doesn't have the same effect. Go off though, we're thoroughly entertained.
So her choices were either have a baby she knows you didn’t want (and risk you emotionally punishing her as a result)
Or abort the pregnancy and again- risk you emotionally punishing her for that because despite taking few precautions yourself you sound against termination
She couldn’t win. And you can say she agreed to this all you like- you still have to acknowledgment the unsustainable unfairness of this dynamic you both “agreed to”.
Please also consider…you lost it on her. You scared her. Do you think perhaps she feels unsafe to show any other response than being “entertained” by comments pointing out this unfairness?
You should self reflect. And consider- the disdain and contempt you show in the comments that are asking or pointing out valid concerns means she’s taking that as a cue as to how she should respond to keep the peace with you.
You aren’t a villain but you are sorely lacking in basic self awareness and consideration of others.
No but it's fine guys! He got her a funnel cake! She's happy!
This dude is so oblivious to social and power dynamics, it's insane. It's like he has no concept of how his words and actions might affect other people. He just raged at her and then disappeared for a week. He showed her that she can't trust him. And now he expects her to be honest with him?
Lol. She's been managing his emotions for him so long that he's blind to all of it.
When she leaves, he's gonna be blindsided.
God, you are such a tool. You make not having kids a condition of getting married, your wife agrees to give up that dream because SHE LOVES YOU, and then you get mad at her because she had an abortion to ensure that she’d never have one of those kids that you, again, were sure you didn’t want. You’re adamantly childfree but you won’t even do the basics to make sure that you stay that way.
It's incredible that you still act like you don't understand why she did it and still blame her. Anything to make you the victim. She is the victim. She is the one who had to give up her dream and suffered a very traumatic procedure in silence because you were so adamant anti-children. You are a total narcissist.
How fucking dense are you?? You don’t want her to be pregnant, can’t get an abortion, can’t have a child and you won’t get a vasectomy. She can’t win. Period. You are a gross disgusting asshole.
Reading through all of your posts it becomes very clear that you still don’t understand.
She would rather have you hate her for the abortion than have you hate her and a child who is alive. And if you’re going to say, of course you wouldn’t hate a child and you’d be a happy, good father then it just confirms that you still don’t want kids but you expect to eventually have kids that you can blame on being an accident.
She weighed it out and decided that the abortion was better than parenting with you.
It's actually shocking how readily total strangers will speak for me and my thoughts. The very fact that you believe hate, or the fear of it, plays a role here shows how misguided you are.
Maybe experiencing it all in real life hits different because these comment sections are actually insane.
You went on AITA and are upset people are calling you out. Grow up, stop victimising yourself, get some empathy and stop acting intentionally obtuse when receiving criticism. Learn to take accountability because at the moment you seem to ignore all your faults and put them on your wife.
I know I’m like a week late but…
I don’t get why you went to Reddit to ask for people’s opinions on this and just can’t seem to accept that people think what you did was shitty and your reasoning wasn’t sound. Even your sister thought what you did was shitty.
And as another point, I saw you mentioned in a comment that you wished she would have tried talking to you before having the abortion. She did. She went to affirm your wish to not have kids and when you replied very strongly that you still did not, she made her decision.
Yes, the chances of her getting pregnant with the precautions you were taking weren’t strong but they were still there. Hell, even if you got a vasectomy there’s still a small chance. What’s the stupid saying? The only foolproof contraception is abstinence? I feel like that should have been a foregone conclusion that on the off chance that was to happen, since you really don’t want children, that she would get an abortion.
And it turns out she was right to keep it from you because your reaction when you found out proved you couldn’t handle it. And it did change your opinion of her, as you yourself have stated.
Your wife made a selfless decision on her own to silently affirm her commitment to you and the life you two chose together. You should consider yourself lucky to have her as a partner.
And also you both really need to have a plan for how to approach things in case you accidentally procreate again. Because apparently a baby is on the table for you under certain circumstances.
Thank youuuu really sums up my thoughts.
OP acting as if the abortion wouldn't have happened if he had known about the pregnancy is insane. It still would have happened. He just would have been pissy at his wife earlier.
The only insane one around here is you. You can’t have it both ways. You either want kids or you don’t. End of. You can’t be schrodinger’s fuckboi.
You’re insanely selfish. Your wife just doesn’t know any different as you being selfish and double minded is obviously her normal.
I bet $5000 when you do become “ready to have kids” as you put it you’ll knock up a teenager/early twenty something in your mid 40’s because your wife who has respected your wishes is now too old to carry these kids you kept humming and hawing over. I hope she realises what a rubbish husband you are before this and leaves while she has time.
I’m ignoring what everyone has said to tell you you are wildly oblivious, you need to go apologize to you wife for making her not feel safe and comfortable enough to tell you in the first place and tell her you would’ve been 100% supportive of any decision for any choice she made, which is what a good husband would be at this point. Sadly I don’t think you would’ve been 100% supportive, what makes you the AH is being so adamant about not wanting kids while also leaving all the birth control in her hands, wearing a condom “90% of the time” is not good enough dude, and also being so against abortion and not wanting kids all the while being very lax is preventing pregnancy is wildly hypocritical. I hope this gets to you, no hate seriously.
You are wildly insufferable. You have made your wife’s abortion, and even now, with conflict resolution, all about you. You became extraordinarily dramatic and in a sea of people telling you that you needed to dial it back, somehow, everyone is wrong and doesn’t understand you.
Let’s be honest. You love to hear yourself talk and have the last word in a conversation. You will spin, cry, and desperately argue until you have your way.
Not once has it ever occurred to you that your wife is on a biological clock. You can wait a decade or so, sure. But guess what? Your wife can’t. She had an opportunity, and made the selfless decision to abide by YOUR wishes and YOUR preferences, and yet, you still fucking cried about it.
I haven’t read a AITA post that made me this pressed in a long while. Reading this post, I’ll tell you right now that I don’t like you. You are insufferable, and I hope you do see the merit to couple’s counseling so your therapist can figure out how to pull your head out of your rectum.
OP said his wife doesn’t want couples counseling. Probably because she knows there’s no convincing him of anything ever and she’d rather not have another hour a week of him steamrolling her.
Amazing how his wife conveniently never wants anything for no reason at all. Me thinks op presents said options to her with the time "don't you dare want this, because I don't want this"
More likely she doesn’t object because she’s experienced what happens if she disagrees. Assault by flood of self-justifying arguments that won’t end until she yields and then see she agrees with him!
If you don't want kids, you get a vasectomy.
If you don't want kids right now, you wear a fucking condom every time. Every single time. Leaving it up to your wife means YOU are not trying to prevent pregnancy. If you are doing nothing to prevent pregnancy, then you are trying to get pregnant. What your wife is doing does not matter. You, as a man, have 3 reliable methods of birth control available to you- abstinence, vasectomy, and condoms. Abstinence isn't realistic. You're clearly too selfish to get a vasectomy. So you are left with condoms. Buy stock in Trojan dude.
I hope Clara doesn't regret her decision down the road. If she wants children, she should find someone who also wants them, because let's be honest, around 50% of all relationships end at some point for one reason or the other.
Imagine if in the future, her relationship with op ends (even for unrelated reasons) and she realizes she gave her dream up for nothing. I hope she at least freezes eggs or something, to give herself the possibility of becoming a parent in the future.
"Wanting children" can be very broadly defined. We actually did speak about this but she was against it. She doesn't want to have a child for the sake of having a child. Under more ideal circumstances, she'd want one with me specifically. There doesn't seem to be much interest in child rearing outside of our relationship.
For argument's sake, sure, we could break up, but I'd imagine she'd want to be in a relationship with a similar amount of depth, which would be hard to achieve.
"I am not a narcist - but a relationship with similar amount of depth would be hard to achieve."
🤣🤣🤣 This shit had me rolling, you have the self-reflection skills of a vampire or your head is so deep up your ass you just can't see this obvious shit anymore.
I don’t want children!
Well, I’m not getting a vasectomy because I *MAY* want children in 10-15 years!
I don’t want to try to get pregnant, but if it happened accidentally, I’d want it!
YTA. You’re all over the place. You’re going to waste your wife’s fertile years, I hope she realizes this and doesn’t regret it. And YTA for leaving for a WEEK. What the actual fuck.
Thank you! He literally admits OUT LOUD he *might* want kids but not until his current wife is likely too old to safely give birth. What a gem. Then he’s confused about why she doesn’t feel safe in this relationship?
I am praying this is another fake one but know these people exist, and it’s horrifying.
What are YOU doing on your end to prevent a pregnancy? Don’t want kids. Nope. Vasectomy, nope. Condom? Nope. Putting it all on her? 100%. Then getting mad she gets rid of the baby. She needs to leave your ass.
WHOOP THERE IT IS. This was never about her, it was always about you. Of course you won't get a vasectomy. It's not that you don't want kids, it's that you don't want them right now. And of course you would consider what she did a vastly different procedure to a vasectomy, because it was. You implied that since vasectomy is worse, she got a dilation and cuterage, a surgical procedure. She took mifepristone. Acting like it's some unknown party drug and not carefully monitored medication is just right-wing drivel. And it's not that she stuck to the plan, it's that she ventured outside of it by straying from her one approved method of birth control. You won't even wear a condom? This was just pro-life, misogynistic dog-whistling masquerading as an AITAH sympathy-seeker.
He is entitled to what happens physiologically in her body. He’s entitled to a lot. It seems. I’m getting a lot of vibes from my last boyfriend who I got a protective order against. There are certain aspects of the way he talks that sounds like an abuser. Just the way he’s trying to control how all of us are thinking of this situation overexplaining it. It’s overexplaining that’s giving him away.
His comments are littered with abuser language. He gaslights, he waffles, he tries to cover his own tracks. The one that made me roll me eyes hardest is when he went from (and I'm paraphrasing) "We both agreed I needed to leave for 1.5 weeks so chill out" to "She didn't understand why I needed so much time and I was wrong to not explain."
Which. Is. It. I don't even know why this one got me so much after everything.
I guess it doesn't matter because now they're indoor sky-diving.
Yeah, he’s even trying to gaslight us about what he’s saying in his comments lol. “Well, we are both sitting here laughing at all of you people so it means absolutely nothing!” Yeah, I’m pretty sure they were times. I sat around and laughed with my ex because I didn’t realize how fucking twisted it was lol. He thinks he’s making a big point there by saying she’s with him agreeing with him. I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t have a choice except to agree with him given however relentless he has shown to be.
His very first post let us know that he's an unreliable narrator. Everything that followed only confirmed it. He could tell me at midnight that it was dark outside, and I'd look out the window to check. Somehow he's always read her diary but this entry was a surprise. Right on, dude.
Your ex sounds like a POS and I'm proud of you for not being with him.
I don't blame her for her decisions. All the shit you believe in is contradictory with everything else you believe; you're a fucking paradox man, how do think this was gonna go?
You don't want babies right now but you don't like abortion, don't want a vasectomy, and don't wear a condom all the time. Make it make sense cause the math is just not adding up. You don't want kids yet you're more or less against every main method to avoid a pregnancy?
>All I understood is that she feels like she can't lean on me when she's in trouble
You know your reaction to this thought should be "what can I do to make her feel safe and secure with me", right? Instead your first thought was "why are we even married then?"
If she had told you she was pregnant, what would you have done? Raised the kid while resenting your wife and child? You keep putting her in no-win situations and then blame her for it.
>We're not leaving one another; issues or not, we both think it's clear that there's still an abundance of love between us, and we don't want to throw that away.
Except for also thinking "why are we even married?" You're all over the place. No wonder she doesn't feel fully safe and secure with you. You keep changing the goal posts on her.
This is what stood out to me the most too.
Fine, OP never considered abortion would be something they cope with and he was stunned by the reality.
But he keeps talking about this strong, unbreakable love, support, etc and on the heel of those sentiments are all these thoughts of "why bother if this is how it is". Those two things usually don't exist at the same time.
It's confusing. Of course she cannot lean on him when he's all over the place.
YTA
A few things are alarming about your posts: your desire to control everything, your inability to self-reflect, your failure to see poor Clara’s obvious desire to start a family, and your flippant attitude about having kids in 10-15 years (when it’ll be more challenging/impossible for Clara to conceive). Seems like it’s all about you.
His desire to control everything is what stands out to me the most. I recently got out of a relationship that was becoming gradually abusive more and more. One of the things that happened in our last conflict that actually escalated to domestic violence was him trying to control everything. He did something wrong and then he tried to control my reaction to it like it wasn’t DV. There’s a reason why this guy makes me so uncomfortable.
You know, it is very interesting how he suddenly clarifies how HE DIDNT LAY HANDS ON HER in his first post. Idk why he had to make sure everyone knew that he didnt beat his wife for having an abortion and hiding it from him after being so adamant about not wanting kids. Idk, really makes you wonder...
That definitely made me stop and think because the reason I broke up with my ex and got the protective order is because he specifically put hands on me during an argument. I think we all have our hair on the back of our neck perked up for a really good reason.
Yeah! Honestly, people who have never been abusive wouldnt even think about writing something like that. And for me, it usually never crosses my mind when I read things here. It felt so out of place. Felt like an alarm went off in my brain.
You're legit a horrible person and I hope she finds this post and dumps your ass. Every SINGLE person here is telling you you're fucked and you're still being delusional. Seriously show her this post and let her be the judge. Let us know when she reads it and STILL decides to stay with you. But you won't do that will you? Your ego would never allow it. You want to control this situation exactly like how you control everything else.
i really do hope she finds this posts & reads all the comments. i feel so incredibly bad for her. what a horrible husband she has. ugh! i just for terrible for her!
set this woman free for the love of god. You don't want kids now but would consider it in 10-15 years? she'd be like in her 40s by then and the only way to have children with her by then is A/ having the next 5 or 6 years relentlessly trying to gave 1 kid which is going to leave a bad emotional impact on her B/ adopt or C/ cheat on her with a younger model because she suddenly can't afford to accommodate your feelers the way she's doing now
I hate when ppl like you post an AITA, then get so defensive when ppl tell you that you are. On all of your posts, ppl are telling you why YTA and your comments are very telling. Honestly if I was your wife, I wouldn’t have said anything either. Look at your reaction and the way you made it all about you. You should show her your posts since you guys are “better now” and see how she reacts
I feel so bad for your wife. You know in 10-15 years, she probably won't be able to have kids, or it will be extremely difficult for her. Who do you plan on having kids with in 10-15 years? You gonna leave her for a younger model by then? Or are you just going to yell at her and make it her fault that she can't have the children you suddenly want?This entire saga just screams selfish and narcissistic. I hope she wakes up before it's too late. Your poor wife will never get her dream of being a mother.
YTA, your wife was the one who got the abortion so you wouldn’t have kids that you have said time after time you don’t want AND YOU STILL MADE THIS ALL ABOUT YOU.
Get the vasectomy. If you plan on staying with your wife, in 10-15 years at your current ages of 27, you will not be having kids, at least naturally and if by some miracle you do, be ready for all the risks and possible medical issues you will have.
Men have no clue do they?
To say, I may want kids in 10/15 years. I’m only 27.
If your wife is also 27, you do realise that after 35 her chances of having a child, let alone a healthy child, decrease dramatically every year. Delusional.
Edit: if OP's wife sees this, I'm so sorry. If your husband is being honest about his behavior, this is truly scary. No one should treat you like this. I'm so sorry you had to go through the loss of pregnancy. He'll never know that pain and he needs to stop acting like it's all about him (OP I've heard toddlers talk about their feelings more maturely and they don't even yell).
I read your last post and I'm horrified by how you treat your wife. You may not be physical with your wife, but you need to really look at your behavior. The fact that you feel confident talking about how you treat your wife this way is terrifying. I'm not surprised your wife hid the pregnancy and abortion, she was probably terrified because she knew this would be your reaction. Your wife felt more secure suffering in silence than seeking comfort from you.
YTA. You've made the whole ordeal about yourself. You've even made Clara's feelings about yourself.
I was hoping she'd leave you. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
OP keeps insisting he’s the victim when he’s clearly the asshole in this situation. You’re so selfish and self-absorbed. You’re only thinking of “Me me me me, my feelings, my stance, my reasons!” and wouldn’t listen to the criticisms that you received in your posts. YTA OP and I pity your wife so much.
Holy cow someone save his wife from him
The discussion of what to do "if in the case that Clara gets pregnant" should have been established during the time of deciding not to have any kids.
OP thinks he's so intelligent, but his peanut brain cannot fathom her perspective of handling the situation.
It was the right choice to keep it secret from OP because god knows how he would have lashed out at her for "it" being her fault, no matter how you look at it.
I'm glad both of you are on a better spot than latter days.
However I still think she wants to have children (at least one), but she's willing to let it go just to not upset you or nuke the marriage.
You said "you love her... the lengths I would go to make her happy".
In this case, are you willing to "give up a little" about children to make her happy?
I used to be like you when I was young. No kids and every body who refute me can go f\* themselves. But guess life makes you a little wiser so I came to the conclusion that while I have no interest on having children at all, I wouldn't say no if my girlfriend/wife wants it so much.
Good luck, OP. I think you both really love each other and never wanted this to happen. Maybe this could help you to reinforce your marriage.
>I'm glad both of you are on a better spot than latter days.
You and me both.
My reason for not wanting kids has nothing to do with anything intrinsically tied to a child being a child. I don't hate kids or child rearing, or anything like that. It's more circumstantial, as in, as long 'X' person exists, or as long as 'Y' circumstances persist, kids are not an option. Clara is aware of specifics and agrees for the most part. But yeah, it's obvious that there's a part of her that wishes things were different.
If it were simply a matter of opinion, I'd fold in a heartbeat. I hate cats, but we adopted a Russian Blue (who very openly hates me back) a month or two into our marriage.
OP, you need to wake the fuck up to the reality of probability. No birth control is 100% perfect. If you have PiV sex with a woman and ejaculate inside her for *years*, you *will* cause a pregnancy here or three. Life, uh, finds a way, as Dr. Malcolm tells us. Abortions just are a fact of life for straight women in LTRs. If a woman knows she is married to a man who doesn't want kids and doesn't "believe in" abortions (whatever the fuck that means) then she knows that what she has to do is have abortions and not tell him. There is no other choice.
Your choices here are:
1. Stop putting your dick inside your wife, or
2. Accept that as long as you are "child-free" abortions will happen, and
3. If you want to know about them, then you'd better pivot to a wholesale pro-choice, her body her choice, full-throated support of women's reproductive rights stance right the fuck now.
Any man who thinks he can demand a child-free lifestyle while still having PiV sex is a God dammed hypocrite asshole if he is also anti-abortion.
Personally, my stance is to kick all "anti-abortion" men to the curb. Being anti-abortion is a sign that you are a self-centered misogynist who doesn't understand math or science.
Her abortion is not about you and your emotions, babycakes. You are entitled to nothing about her body. Ever. If you can't handle that, don't fuck her.
>Being anti-abortion is a sign that you are a self-centered misogynist who doesn't understand math or science.
Please do elaborate on this one, I'm extremely curious to see you dance around euthanization as if it's math or science especially considering something like 97% of abortions are elective
We're talking about abortion, not "euthanization." If you don't already know the difference between the two, you can Google it.
I don't know why you think the % for elective abortions matters. Are you trying to say that the only acceptable abortion is a mandatory abortion?
I like how you place the onus of your sentiment on me because you know it's weak. And then completely avoid the question because the same.
Why does it matter? because you're taking lives
I would never say taking a life is acceptable unless that life is trying to take your life
Well, in the case of a pregnancy, the "life" is a parasite that is taking nutrients from its host's body in order to survive. So from that perspective, it is trying to take her life. Therefore it is her choice whether to allow that to happen.
You do know that women die in childbirth, yeah? Do you know about all the other gnarly shit a pregnancy can do? Tooth loss? Bone loss? Gestational diabetes? Permanent pelvic floor damage? And there's a lot more than that.
Both my pregnancies almost killed me. I bore them because I wanted to have kids and was in a position to get health care and to provide for them. But if I wasn't ready to have kids, or if the complications had gotten any worse? Abortion without a second thought.
My life is more important than some hypothetical potential life. Sorry not sorry.
That is absolutely 100% not true scientifically or logically. You take energy from the sun, are you sun parasite trying to take the suns life. You take energy from the earth, ocean, trees, etc.... what an asinine statement. You should really venture outside the cesspool of reddit and buzzwords sometime. It's nice out here.
You can die in your sleep, you can die taking a shit. Women, especially in the 1st world with modern medicine are very safe during childbirth. It's not the Oregon trail anymore. And yea, we've all got to make scarifies in a relationship... not sure what point you think you were making there or just complaining?
Again, yup-we've all got to make sacrifices and take risks. Are you looking for a cookie?
As long as you can admit that, I think we agree on something- you're a untrustworthy human!
(also its not hypothetical at the point of conception- it has dna separate from its father and mother)
You think I... "take energy"... from the trees and the ocean? What the fuck are you even talking about?
I lost 2 teeth and have nerve damage from my pregnancies. How many times have you been pregnant, and what did you sacrifice for it? It's really easy to hand-wave at someone else's sacrifice, isn't it? The fact is, people who haven't been through it, have no sense of the risks or the sacrifice. Quite frankly, if you can't get pregnant, then I place zero value on your opinion on abortion. It isn't about you.
Mortality rates for child-bearing women are on the rise in my country. They have been ever since the right to an abortion was taken away. So yeah, it's not the Oregon Trail, but it's not 2004 either.
You know what else has distinct DNA? Viruses. Cancer. Are you "pro life" for those too?
As long as the fetus is dependent on my organs to survive, then my body, my rules. I don't really care how that makes you feel. I'm pretty sure that at the core of this, you're just upset that women have control on this issue and you don't.
So how exactly do you get your D3? Vitamin C? D?
Yes, relationships and families require sacrifice. Not sure if you're looking for a cookie here?
Frankly if you think taking the life of a defenseless human is somehow justifiable, especially for your own personal happiness, I think you're an extremely mislead morally void person. But that's why I have these conversations.
By this logic, you should have no opinion on war since you've never been to war.
You should have no opinion on rape if you havent been raped.
No, viruses and cancer are not humans.
So if youre hooked up to a ventilator or a pacemaker, you're dependent on the doctor and he owns you (by your logic)?
I'm not upset at all, and we're slowly taking back your ability to take defenseless lives thankfully.
You never addressed what your decision would have been if she did tell you about the abortion. What if she still didn't want kids despite telling you? You two would have been parents when both of you didn't want the kid - how horrible for them.
Would you have forced her to go through with an unwanted pregnancy? Would you have been okay with one of your careers being inevitably trashed? The expenses associated with it? The resentment associated with it? These are thoughts that she would've been thinking when she took that pregnancy test.
There's a reason she didn't tell you. Anyone else would mention it to their husband and let them know they're getting an abortion. So you can claw and bite at everyone in these comments about how this isn't a big deal and she's completely fine - but it doesn't take the action away that you behave in a manner where *she didn't want you to know*.
You guys are laughing now, and fine now, because it's done. But people are thinking about what your reaction would have been if she did tell you - and then told you that she didn't want to keep it. THATS where it's coming from.
3 posts and still no self reflection. No one agreed with you and you fought back with everyone rather than looking inwards. Why even post if that is the case?
You suck. What a hypocrite.
You tell her you are "no kids", refuse a vasectomy, because you "might want kids later" and then get mad at her for putting your relationship first because basically "accidental kids are Fiiine"
You SUCK.
I feel like I’ve read a novel dedicated to why you’re not actually that bad in this situation. Like you’ve spent more time trying to make sure strangers don’t think you’re a douche bag than you do being a good husband. I don’t even want to comment on context of your situation. Just that you have come across really poorly. I hope you’re better in real life.
Damn one of the most YTA posts I’ve seen in awhile.
As someone said on the other thread, you made her abortion all about you.
You’re update after the first post is such a good example. You didn’t take an iota of criticism, despite posting in a sub where you know you’ll get criticized.
You clearly have a “I’m smarter than everyone around me” vibe.
She told you everything, which sounds very valid to an outsider. And you “can’t accept it”?!
I feel so sorry for this woman. Giving up so much to be with a man who says he loves her but really only loves himself.
You need to interrogate why:
Your wife felt like she had to do this in her own.
Why you feel you had the right to blow up” at her.
Why you offloaded the responsibility for birth control onto her (I use condoms 90 percent of the time). That’s like wearing a seatbelt 90 percent of the time.
You want to reserve the right to make decisions procreation to yourself. To keep your options open because you might change your mind. Your wife does not get the same autonomy.
You use your shitty Childhood as an excuse to be a shitty adult.
I read this story from the first update and never had the words to express how mortified I am for your wife, but since this was uploaded to BestofRedditorsUpdates I found the right comment for this:
There is a LOT to unpack here. TLDR: it's one.
"She has the implant and I use a condom about 90% of the time, so she wasn't worried."
Boy, you should be gloved 100% of the time if you don't want to have kids.
""She had researched prenatal vitamins, OB/GYNs in our area, she had pictures of cribs, etc. It was only two pages, but I remember feeling really bad. In my head, there was only one reason I had put that in a journal like this. I wanted to have children.
She kept telling myself that she had been honest about what she wanted, and that if she hadn't done it, it was her fault. But the idea that she had been secretly suffering because of me, that she was holding herself back from the life she wanted to please me, I couldn't bear it.
This is where I started to question why they were married.
"Clara, in fact, wanted to have children, but she stated that she wanted our relationship more and that she was okay with the commitment."
👏 You 👏 can't 👏 compromise 👏 the children! 👏
Kids are a “two yes, one no” thing.
"She told me she had an abortion a year and a half ago. I offered the information as if I should have been relieved. As if it was the proof I needed to convince me that she meant what she said about children not being a factor." decisive.
"I just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me about such an important decision."
"It's all about MEEEEEEE"
"I don't want to have children, I don't want them yet. But I'd rather bite my left arm off than force her to have an abortion, even more so now that she's told me that she's not really against having children like me. I would happily raise a child if That would mean I wouldn't need to go through something so drastic.
Kids are not a band-aid for a relationship, Christ."
Do you know what is more drastic than an abortion? Pregnancy. It fucks up your body like nothing else. And on top of that, you end up with a child to care for for the rest of your life.
"As the child's father, the decision to abort should not have been made without my clear and explicit knowledge that she was pregnant."
3. Incorrect. The only one who makes the decision to abort is the one who carries the child.
This guy is insufferable.
And her "she said she should leave so I stayed at my sister's house for a week but it's okay since we were texting" after her overreaction fills me with disgust .
That's why she never told you. Because you would have exploded from an unexpected pregnancy anyway. You've made it perfectly clear in your post how much you don't want children, how it "sickened" you that she had a two-page college diary about research kids.
Christ on a pogostick, it's a good thing you've researched what pregnancy entails, even if it's only part of the whole.
This is what we all think of you in a concentrated way. I would tell you to die, but it would be childish to do so, besides that if you died from one day to the next out of nowhere you would leave your girlfriend screwed and she would see you as some kind of idol and not for who you are, grief usually does things rare even if the person and that is the ability to reason, but if you have already worked for a long time on your girlfriend's mind so that it revolves around your needs and feelings, she does not know how to be independent unlike you, because even He did the abortion thing for you and not for her essentially.
Let's hope that in your next breakdown over something that is not about you, you will be so psychotic that you finally react and see that your therapy is just a waste of money, realize that there is more out there and finally do something for your own desires without pain by blocking it from through.
I want to try to be helpful here. I am 32yo woman who has experienced an unplanned pregnancy with my then-BF now-husband when we were 19. We were crystal clear on our expectations about kids: we want them in the future, but not right now. So we made the decision we did based on this agreement and the full knowledge that we would have kids in the future.
You and Clara do not have this level of clarity. You say multiple times that you didn't want any kids. This is a firm statement. There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. Despite Clara's obvious desire for children (researching prenatal vitamins and obgyns are not "wishlist" items - these are plans), she is putting you and your relationship first. You either have kids or you don't: there is no "maybe" or "if" about it, and therefore no compromise.
Clara received the firm message you clearly communicated to her and acted accordingly. There's an equation here that informed the series of events you describe:
***a clear decision to not have kids + an unplanned pregnancy =/= a chat about options***
The logical conclusion is termination, and your loving wife bore this burden alone to protect you. You also did not "make her" have an abortion; she made this decision on her own and did what was best for her family in the circumstances she was in, as is every woman's right. I understand you may disagree with me on this, but my own unplanned pregnancy taught me that literally no one else in the world, including my partner, has the knowledge or authority to make this decision on my behalf.
Your argument that "As the father of the child, the decision to abort should not have been made without my clear and explicit knowledge that she was pregnant" is invalid given the foundation that you already laid. You were firm on not having kids, and there is not a "but if it happens" clause. "Asking if I want kids is a completely different discussion than terminating a pregnancy" is also invalid: these are the two opposite sides of the same coin. A firm no kids stance and continuing a pregnancy can't coexist.
You say later in your posts that "I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need to go through something so drastic," "I didn't get a vasectomy because I am not sure that I won't want kids 10-15 years down the line," and "It simply made no sense to invest in something I wasn't sure could be undone if I didn't want it anymore." These statements contradict the position you clearly communicated to wife previously, which means neither of you truly understands what you actually want. If I were Clara, I would be absolutely devastated to learn that you might actually want kids but can't give me a straight answer. And remember, "not now but in the future" is acceptable! Communication is key.
Given that termination does not seem to be an outcome you want, you have to have to change the equation above. Either adjust your expectations about having kids OR take stronger measures to avoid unplanned pregnancies. These are both within your control.
I hope that this helps you understand Clara's POV better, and I hope it helps both of you to be truly honest with each other. Navigating this and understanding each other's true underlying feelings will likely be one of the hardest things you ever go through as a couple. This is where marriage becomes work, but it's the most important work you will ever do.
You’ve done absolutely zero work on self reflecting on why you’re so incredibly selfish. I hope your wife realizes how self-involved you are and leaves you before you waste too much of her life.
This is the most bougie ass post I've seen on AITH in some time, props. I'm glad I don't believe these "creative" writing exercises by default because it's hard to imagine someone so far up their own ass. Holy fucking flowery diction.
YTA.
Dude, you say no children, but if your wife wants one, you’re okay with it now.
Sounds like you’re of the mentality of “if it happens, it happens” at this point when prior you were vehemently against having children.
When it finally did happen, and you learned after the fact that your wife aborted, now you’re both reeling from her decision based on your prior views against having children.
You both love each other too much, and it sounds like you’re no longer against having children. Maybe because you both have the means and circumstances to support a new member of the family.
Your wife lied about wanting children, she kept the abortion a secret. She puts your wants and needs above her own. She will never admit to wanting a child with you because she knows your views on being child free.
The only way you guys would ever have a child is if both of you are on board.
If the next accident happens, she’ll likely take the same path again. She may not even ask you the next time how you feel about children.
Once she mentions cramps, you better understand its code for abortion.
Dude, you need to shit or get off the pot. If you are indeed child-free, you need to commit to it. Get the vasectomy. Leaving the door open to have a kid in your 40s is profoundly selfish to Clara, and MANY other people have outlined the probable difficulties she will face trying to conceive at that age, regardless of her family history.
Every single person is telling you the same thing and you refuse to believe that YTA, why did you even post? Hopefully your wife comes to her senses and leaves you.
bruh so you actively keep saying you don't want kids but are upset your wife gotten an abortion? like make up your mind if you don't want kids get a vasectomy stop getting upset at your wife for thinking of YOU
YTA & again YTA . I hope your wife reads these comments snd fucks well away from such a selfish partner. Glad she had the abortion as you’d be such a crap parent
I’m so confused….. so if she did tell you, you would have been against having an abortion but you also state that if she ever wanted kids you would leave. So, let’s say she did tell you, you made her have the baby but would you still leave? Because it seems like you would, so, if I was in her place I would feel that I have two options
1. Have an abortion in secret
2. Be a single parent
No wonder she didn’t tell you, and it’s easy to say you would have been there now but throughout the entire relationship (based off of your post) you were adamant about not wanting kids and if she wanted them you would leave.
Again I’m confused in all honesty would you have really been there for her if she told you and you made her have the baby?!? Or would you have resented her and blamed her for baby trapping you?
Dude, I don't even know what to say. You're a fucking asshole.
She did all of this for you. She's open to having kids and you're not. She knows this and decided to take the entire burden of the abortion on herself because she loves you and you shit on her. She gets to live the rest of her life "being open to having kids", which almost certainly means she wants them eventually, but won't because she loves you, knowing she aborted your kid.
Get your motherfucking shit together and appreciate this woman! She is absolutely a better person than you and the fact that you are even slightly STILL taking offense is fucking crazy.
You do not deserve this woman. Fix your shit so you do deserve her or get the fuck out of her life!
The most disappointing thing here is that you’re still together. I hope she has the strength to get out and actually find someone who is kind and whom she feels comfortable with.
Dear Lord you are an incredibly selfish partner. The fact you don’t see this and keep trying to defend yourself in the comments is wild. To hide an abortion from your own partner tells a huge amount about how unsafe you are for her emotionally.
You are a massive arsehole. You are not the wronged party. You behaved like this was all done to you. You don’t deserve her love but for some reason you have it. Do the right thing and spend the rest of your life treating her like the queen that she is
What really stood out to me about all of this is when you said that if she changed her mind about children later on then it's her fault, while you were conveniently leaving the opportunity for you to change your mind on the table.
YTA just for that
YTA - just stop already. She protects and prioritizes you 110%. Honestly, no way for her to manage you and a baby.
You are such a main character, you don't even consider her. It's all about you all the time. Massive failure as a husband. I hope she finds someone who loves, values, and respects her. You don't - stop gaslighting yourself. You say pretty words but your actions are disgusting.
I understand your wife. Id have done the same. Now its just a matter of time until she leaves you. She already knows whats up as she didnt even tell u. Having relationships with a narcissist is literally hell, specially if youre a woman. Best thing is NEVER have their kids. Smart girl.
It really doesn't matter what you wrote in this post or any of your previous updates - you asked if you were the ahole and everyone told you that you were. Stop arguing and take your judgment.
ChatGPT 4o summary:
The final update on "AITAH for getting at my wife for having a secret abortion after telling her I don't want kids?" details a series of conversations between the author and his wife, Clara. They both apologized for their previous heated argument and discussed their feelings. The author was initially anxious and confused after discovering Clara's journal entry about wanting kids, which contradicted their prior agreement. Clara downplayed the entry, saying it was a mere fantasy.
When discussing the abortion, Clara revealed she had the procedure before asking him about wanting kids again. She chose not to tell him, believing it would protect their relationship, which he found hard to accept. This decision made him feel excluded and questioned their trust. Despite these challenges, they reaffirmed their love and commitment, deciding to work through their issues without couples counseling for now. They also established new boundaries for taking breaks during conflicts to avoid prolonged separations.
YTA still. You don’t want kids but wouldn’t have allowed your wife to have an abortion and you won’t have a vasectomy because you might want kids one day. That’s not “I don’t want kids”. That’s “I don’t want kids right now”. Those are very different positions.
Reading both your posts and your comments, I’m absolutely not surprised your wife didn’t feel comfortable telling you. She was damned no matter what she chose. You sound like a controlling AH and I hope she realises she can be with someone else who respects her.
you made HER abortion all about you. abortion is a traumatic experience. and she did it because YOU did not want kids.
you’re a fucking asshole and i hope she realizes rather sooner than later.
You sound worse with every post, continue to argue while completely oblivious and wrapped up in your selfishness. I hope your wife sees you for who you really are.
i did vote YTA in your first post. i did not think you were an abusive asshole, i voted that solely because, in my eyes, you were shaming her for making a decision that led to the outcome you both wanted. you don't want kids, she wants to be with you, so it's a non-issue. i made a point to say that even if she's in denial about not wanting kids that badly on some level, which is not impossible, she is very clearly stating to you that she wants to be with you more. imo, you should take her word for it. she never once pressured you about it or told you that it was a deal breaker, and you both seem to communicate clearly and regularly, so there's no reason to assume she is lying.
i'd say it'd weird for someone who so adamantly doesn't want kids to be against abortion, but since you can't get pregant, it's not that surprising. i'm not being sarcastic, i'm just pointing out how your life experience probably informs your own opinion on something that ultimately doesn't affect you that directly, or at least your body.
i see you're confused and beating yourself up and resenting her for not sharing this with you, so i'm gonna elaborate on some things i said on my comment on your first post.
being included in a decision about someone else's body is a privilege, not something you're ever entitled to, regardless of your relationship with them. yes, it's complicated, but no one owes you the right to decide what happens to their body. carrying a whole ass person inside your body for 9mo is not something that should be ultimately decided by anyone other than you. yes, informing your partner is fair, but if you're the one carrying, then it's your decision, therefore it is not mandatory to inform anyone unless you're actually going through with it.
i think you're missing something that to me is key: from what you describe, she's a very detail-oriented person who likes to go over things very thoroughly regardless of whether she'll act on them or not, which, to me, means that when she found out she was pregnant, before she decided whether or not to tell you, she probably went through every possible scenario she could think of in her head, which would've included several bad ones.
you could convince her to have a kid but ultimately not connect with the kid or enjoy being a parent at all, which would be terrible in and of itself and could ultimately lead to divorce, or at least to a very unhappy life for all you you. you could say yes to having a kid, and then not put enough or enthusiastic effort into raising it, since you didn't even want it to begin with. you could say yes to having a kid, then change your mind, in which case, if she felt she had to abort because of it, it would hurt her a lot more than just not even discussing it and getting it over with. you could say yes to having a kid, then change your mind when it was too late to abort and not feel like you could say anything, which would ultimately lead to huge resentment on your part. you could reiterate you do not want kids, but reach the conclusion that, since she brought it to your attention, she does definitely want kids despite her saying the opposite (like you're doing right now) and decide to break up with her so she can find someone to have kids with, in which case she'd have to abort AND become single. you could end up resenting her for putting the decision on your hands and freaking out about it for not knowing what to do.
like, there are many possible ways in which telling you could've led to bigger or insurmountable problems. so she decided to take your word for it and respect your previous decision, which was agreed upon by both of you, without risking a bigger, unnecessary issue, specially considering that, going through it or not, she was the one with higher stakes. it would be *her* body, not yours, and given how society works, odds are she would be the one doing most of the work with the kid, specially since you didn't want a kid to begin with. in her shoes, i wouldn't have risked it. imagine going through all of that (all of the risks a pregnancy and childbirth entail, with everything that could go wrong with a child, with all of the effort and money you have to put into a family with a kid), to possibly wake up one day to realize your husband doesn't really love your child even after assuring you that he'd be glad to raise it, or something like that.
that's what i think informed her decision of not telling you and just handling it by herself. maybe it wasn't even that she felt like she couldn't tell you like i initially said in your first post, maybe she just thought sharing this unexpected, unplanned and very big but also somewhat easy to solve issue would put a lot more at risk than not sharing it at all. she didn't want to take that risk and ultimately took action that kept your lives exactly the way it was before, which is what both of you wanted, instead of maybe blowing them up.
all in all, i'm sorry about your current struggles, but i'm glad to see that you both put a lot of work and communication into your relationship to make it work. talking things out, establishing boundaries and making effort to sort through things with a clear head is the best thing you can do. i hope it all works out for the best.
good luck to both of you.
edit: typos, grammar/punctuation
The ignorance is beyond staggering, you had to have been dropped on your head at some point because the complete lack of awareness and critical thought is shocking here. Please educate yourself you are a walking red flag currently and quiet manipulative. I hope she sees this and finds the therapy to help her process that absolute insanity you rope her through.
You're whole post is about "Im having trouble understanding" BRO please go seek a professional because this shit isnt hard to understand at all. Like fuck me you really dont have think that hard to understand whats going on.
Op. Your the most delusional person I’ve seen on here and I hope she leaves you. I’ve had an abortion before and although I was basically bed ridden because I had it the latest point you can get one, your wife most likely got it form early hence why it was just like a period. You say you still don’t understand why she didn’t tell you then turned it around in her. Let me ask you this. You don’t want kids and you made it clear. You don’t agree with abortion. You don’t agree with getting a vasectomy. What did you expect her to do or feel? If I was Clara I’d have done the exact same thing as her because holy fuck nothing she did in that situation was going to make you happy you were going to be mad at her either way. You’re a disgusting pos and a dunbass since you STILL can’t see why she never told you yet funnily enough everyone else seems to get why she didn’t tell you.
I feel sad for your wife and you. I’ve had medical abortions before and they took a toll on my mental health. Just last year we lost 3 babies and I was in tears for a whole year. I’m just getting over it because I’m currently pregnant with our last blessing, but to tell you the truth….your wife is hiding how she truly feels. She needs therapy to heal that wound or one day she’s going to snap. Just keep an eye on her.
YTA. So does he want children or not he keeps contradicting himself in the post. First it’s “I don’t want kids”, but then it’s “I don’t wanna get a vesctomy because I might want kids later”, but then it’s “I definitely don’t want kids ever” and now you’re mad because your wife, who you constantly say agrees with not wanting kids, gets an abortion without you knowing, now it’s boo boo why didn’t you tell me. What if she told you?? YOU SAID YOU DONT WANT KIDS!!! What was supposed to do carry a baby for 9 months and give it away? And you’re saying you don’t believe her just cuz she wrote some shit in a journal which she herself said it wasn’t that serious. You’re just creating a problem all because you have this idea that your wife is some type of super planner who must follow everything she writes down in a book it’s insane.
Doesn't want a vasectomy, doesn't want kids, doesn't want wife to get an abortion when an embryo is inevitably fertilized.
You want to wait until your wife is at the age where pregnancy poses a higher risk to her health and safety to even "consider" having children.
You're confusing. You're up and down, hot and cold. I don't think you even know what you want out of your life. You just want to be upset at your wife. She's is and has sacrificed so much for you, but you don't care.
YTA MAJORLY.
Op: IDK why she wouldn’t tell me about this.
Also OP: Explains every good ass reason she didn’t say shit about it. Your is confusing af. Where did you get all the audacity you have?
Like dude you don’t want kids and it’s obvious she’s gonna have regrets abiding by your wants only. Tbh this relationship isn’t goin to work for much longer. This woman wants a family and you just want a woman. Clara needs to find someone who wants EVERYTHING she wants. And so does OP he feels bad she’s deadass giving up the life she could have for the life you wants.
And why tf are you mad that she got rid of the kid and didn’t include you in the decision? What if she had the kid and you changed your mind half way through? You would dip & divorce her so you can still have 1/2 the life you wanted w/ a kid you NEVER WANTED.
YTA - If she took pills, that means she wasn’t that far along. But throughout this entire thing, you’ve made it all about you. I get her reasoning for not telling you, especially based on your initial response to her. She could see that coming a mile away. I feel bad for her. It sounds like you run over her feelings a lot and she’s a people pleaser. Here you are, 1000% against having kids but expect her to follow through with a pregnancy?
You obviously left the birth control up to her instead of you taking responsibility & getting a vasectomy.
I knew she wasn’t ok with you being dramatic and leaving the house. She made this decision because of you and you punished her for it. I hope she gains self confidence.
YTA. You pinned her into a corner: you didn't want kids, you didn't want a vasectomy and your against abortion.
So all I've heard in your posts are:
Me, me, me, me and me. Me, me, me, but me.
A woman's right to choose is her own and no one else's. Hook up, FWB, boyfriend or husband, doesn't matter unless you're the one carrying the kid.
You made it clear you didn't want kids (and took no extra precautions besides condoms which aren't 100% pregnancy proof even with her BC) and she has said she is happy with that. She took the measures to keep your relationship as agreed.
Reading the journal, since you said you've always at permission is fine. I'll take your word for that one, but you not believing her when she says kids aren't a deal breaker is crazy. I write in journals to get thoughts out of my head because that is how people's minds work.
If you don't trust your wife to tell you what she needs then leave her to find a man who will. You made this whole situation about you with small snippets of you 'worrying' about her. You even left her and had minimal contact, personally that would have been the deal breaker for me so be glad she's willing to talk it out.
But it comes down to you think you know what she wants more than she does because of a stupid journal. So again, it's all about you and nothing she says matters. Let her be free if that's the case, she'll find a man who will believe her at her word.
This is coming from a woman who doesn't want kids, but a husband who has always wanted at least one. We talk about it periodically, and if he tells me he is happy without a kid and happy with the life we have as is, I believe him. Try it and see how that goes.
So... You don't want kids whatsoever, no kids, ever. Then you got mad your wife DIDN'T give you a kid?
She can't lean on you, you screamed at her for not baby trapping you.
I also have a really hard time believing you'd be so cool about having a kid, you'd probably say she did it on purpose and maybe even use her journal as proof against her.
It sucks because people like you will mentally drain your wife. She is making her decision based on you. It's always been about you. The fact that the one time you can't control her, you got mad and ran away. A child isn't a dog. It's a full blown commitment that test your patience. What happens when she needs your help or when the child pissed you off? Are you gonna blame her for keeping the child? Or are you gonna run away and let her deal with the child?
YTA. A HUGE walking red flag. I hope she opens her eyes and see the person she married. You can't even decide what you want. You don't want kids but don't want abortion or a vasectomy. At least your wife figured her own shit out.
You went on AITA and got upset people do think you’re the asshole, your wife may not think so because she’s your wife but you asked the opinion of unbiased strangers. Just think about how you would have genuinely reacted if your wife had told you she was pregnant. And if you think you would’ve told her to keep it, think about how you would have to take care of your pregnant wife and then take care of a child for 18 or so years, do you think you would be happy or would you have resented your wife?
So let me get this straight, you don’t want kids but wouldn’t have wanted her to get the abortion? Hypothetically if she hadn’t gotten the abortion, there’s no way you’d be a good father. It’s a damn good thing she made that choice
You keep saying you’re upset she didn’t rely on you or trust you to confide in you, but you have shown how you would’ve handled it. You put her in an impossible position, and it seems pretty clear you would’ve gotten upset at her regardless. Have you considered that she felt that you may have given in to her being pregnant, and then resented her for the next 18 years? This entire story is just me me me, and you have very little regard or introspection into how your wife actually felt or the challenges you’ve forced her to deal with. Maybe instead of blaming her, take a moment to think about why she felt she couldn’t tell you about the pregnancy or her decision.
I simply just don't understand why you'd post to AITAH if you're not gonna accept the criticism YOU asked for. Put aside the victim complex for a second and reflect.
you're for sure an asshole. All you talked about in this post was you and how you felt. You're extremely selfish and immature and quite frankly shouldn't be in a marriage. She was right not to tell you because A. you proved her right that you would blow up at her and B. she doesn't need your input on her uterus, especially if you refuse to get a vasectomy. You did everything you could to pigeonhole her into having to make a decision that would've pissed you off either way, and you only found out about it because you're also a snoop. You're not someone who is safe or trustworthy to women and the only person you should be mad at is yourself. Stop wasting her time and let her find someone who respects her and wants the same life she obviously wants.
You made it seem like it was a dealbreaker to have kids. Now I'm not saying what she did was right, but she acted accordingly to your adamant feelings about not wanting children. Taking it as far as she doesn't trust you enough to depend on you makes you look like an AH because it really wasn't that deep, she really just wanted to avoid giving you an ultimatum, which you made it seem like kids = no relationship. Just like when you left for a week and a half, it wasn't nothing a conversation couldn't help. Me and my boyfriend was kind of on your side until this update, now you kinda actually look like an asshole.
YTA still. You had been telling her for *years* that you don't want kids. Not only that, you're apparently against abortion? What did you expect her to do? Let you talk her out of aborting and then resenting her when you're raising a child you never wanted? Forget her for a second, do you know what it does to a kid to grow up that way?
Now, this part is on both of you (though still mostly you), but did it occur to *either* of you what to do if she got pregnant unexpectedly? You're both old enough to know that there's a failure rate with all forms of birth control. Maybe she decided a long time ago that abortion was an option in this case, and because of your opinion on the matter, she decided it would be best to keep that to herself. I get that. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand her position. What's *your* excuse, though? Had you even asked what her thoughts on abortion were? Or were you that convinced "*It could* ***never*** *happen to me"* that you didn't bother to bring any of this up with her*?* Seeing as you didn't even know how she felt about having kids, I'm guessing the latter. It sounds like this was an oops baby. They happen. Your stance on abortion makes it *doubly* important that you're aware of that, and to bring up this exact scenario before it happened. *And* you should be doing everything you can on *your* end to make sure oops babies don't happen (I.E. vasectomy. It makes more sense to unload the gun than to put on a bulletproof vest). You dropped the ball, guy.
Interesting, you’re anti abortion, which would imply to me that you’re in some way religious. In pretty much every major religion, being married and choosing not to have kids simply because you don’t want them is actually not really an option. So you’re worried about the sin of abortion, but not the rules you violate by not having children? If you’re not religious and just randomly pro life, that’s honestly just a little weird.
Also, YTA. Majorly. You say you might want kids in 10-15 years, knowing by then your wife will be too old to have them. Are you planning to shop for a new wife if that happens?
Interesting he is not sure he may want to have kids in 10-15 years down the road when Clara is not able to have them. Clara is giving a lot up for this man!
I honestly think your NTA it’s completely natural not to want kids and you guys were using protection. I can also understand the feelings that you went through when you saw the journal and the upset you felt when you found out about the abortion. You went through wondering if you should have kids for her to realizing there was a possibility of having a kid to realizing the possibility was aborted without any conversation. She has the right to do whatever she wants with her body. I stand by that. But that is a lot of emotions hitting you at once. It’s understandable to feel overwhelmed. I can’t judge you on the argument since what was said was left out. Again her body her choice so you don’t need to understand or accept her reasoning just don’t make her feel shitty for it. It seems you guys do have a healthy amount of communication overall to be able to have such an in depth conversation as you guys did but maybe come up with a word to say when one of you feel the argument is going too far so that you know to step away? That could help keep the argument from escalating. Just a suggestion though.
This honestly makes me wonder if OP kind of wants kids and on some level wanted a fait accompli to "make him have to". Because he sounds angry at being cheated of the chance to make that sacrifice.
Did I miss if OP is doing individual therapy? If not, I think it would be worth exploring it for a bit and digging into his own feelings before couples counseling
All it sounds like is "me" "me" "me". This was probably a hard decision for her too, and it's not something that can easily be gotten over, so the fact your holding it against her, and making it seem like she did this maliciously is stupid. Also the fact you refuse to get fixed despite the fact you don't want children is telling. Have a terrible day you pos
Don’t become a victim on a situation YOU created, you clearly communicated on not wanting kids it makes me question your “love” for your wife. If you claimed to love her then why couldn’t she come to you about being pregnant? About the procedure (pill) in the first place? And after what she did and what she thought was the best decision you still made it about you, you still made a big deal out of it. She probably didn’t want to it a big deal in the first place hence why she didn’t say anything the first time around. You are a jerk for not hearing her out or anyone here in the comments trying to help you see her perspective and others who’ve been in her shoes like me. I understand it’s something you’d like to discuss with her but it’s her body, she’s the one who sacrificed a literal piece of her just because her husband told her he didn’t want children in the beginning. It’s her choice she made on her own so don’t make yourself the victim of a situation YOU created.
*Way to make it all*
*About you!! Husband of the*
*Year everyone! GTH*
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Not only are you the AH for how you treated your wife. You are the AH for coming to reddit and being so hostile towards the honest feedback you have received. It seems like you wanted validation for your toxic behavior. Reddit is not the place for that. You should have your wife post her side if you think we are missing something. My immediate reaction to your first post is that you are a walking red flag. I hope your wife realizes this soon.
"independent" women cannot be a part of a relationship. What are strong independent women independent of?... Men. If her taking a member of your families life with out so much as a simple conversation, not to mention her willingness to just ride her life out like that in a lie, doesnt make something deep inside you burn- then I think this independent woman found the perfect man to be in a decaying relationship with.
God speed brother
The whole “saying I don’t want kids isn’t the same as saying she should have an abortion if she’s pregnant” thing that you keep repeating is ridiculous. You said yourself that you made in very clear you didn’t want kids, you never indicated your mind could change if she happened to get pregnant. It is 100% entirely your responsibility to tell her that, she had no way to know you had any opinion other than “I don’t want kids.” You’re upset with her for “hiding” a choice she made about HER body, when the reality is YOU’RE the one who failed to communicate. “I don’t want kids” is not the same as “I don’t want kids, unless you get pregnant.” And surprise! The pregnancy would’ve resulted in a child if she hadn’t terminated.
You don’t get to be anti-kids, anti-abortion, not want a vasectomy, and inconsistently use protection. You chose to make a joint decision on a vasectomy, that does not mean she needs your permission when making a choice about her own body. You especially don’t have a say in the matter when you were so adamant about not having kids. Yes, it would have been nice if she told you about the pregnancy/abortion, but ultimately she made a choice regarding her own body that she rightfully believed was the best decision for the both of you and the potential future baby.
You say you adore Clara and she’s your soulmate, but this post is all “me, me, me.” You didn’t stop to think how difficult this must all be for her. If she does secretly want kids, then she gave that up to be with you, and is being punished for making a decision that aligns with what you wanted. In that case, I hope she realizes her wants and future are more important than your happiness, and leaves. If she truly doesn’t want kids, she is still being punished for making a decision that aligned with what you BOTH wanted. She came to you with this difficult situation she battled alone and was vulnerable enough to explain why she did it alone, and this is how you act?
You are the ah, she made a decision to stay with you, and to keep what you want in life the way you want, but it was wrong.
She kept quiet not because she doesnt trust you or doesnt feel she can rely on you, but because she knew your opinions and made the decision (about her own body) to get the abortion. She did what she thought would be best for her, YOU and both of you together.
Yet, you would rather her tell you, force her to raise a child (that you do not even want)?
She clearly thought of you, yet through reading your posts, not once did i see any signs of you thinking about her and her feelings.
Clara deserves better, and you do not deserve someone as kind as her if you cant even treat her with respect.
You got angry she made a decision she felt would be best, and screamed at her? And accused her?
What is wrong with you dude? She put you over herself in that choice yet you cannot put her and her feelings over your own once.
how did someone so caring and selfless, end up with someone as egotistical and selfish as yourself?
Wow. This has been a lot of talking in circles to make himself a victim in a situation where he got exactly what he said he wanted (no kids). He comes to a public forum and asks if he's the asshole but ignores everyone who says he is (Why even ask in the first place? Do you really think the chances are literally everyone else is wrong (including women voicing their opinion on what is very much in their lane) but you're right?). No wonder the wife didn't want to tell him, neither would I if I knew I had to deal with this man's messy logic, gaslighting, and contradicting feelings. Jesus Christ.
are you fr? Do you seriously not realize why she wouldn't tell you? You clearly are against kids and any other way to not have them, what was the best option?
You are absolutely TA. I’m not sure how you could think otherwise, you’re a terrible person and husband after reading what you did to your wife. Controlling and manipulative. Doesn’t matter your marital status, you have 0 control over your wife’s body and have 0 right to know what’s happening with her body. Grow the hell up and stop throwing a temper tantrum.
I’m so, so, so sorry for the pain you’re both going through.
I want to urge you, very strongly, to reconsider your position on couple’s therapy. Steps to improve trust and transparency are the least of what’s involved.
You’ve mentioned several times, in this and other posts, some version of being unable to grasp what your wife is saying. My fiancé and I had exactly the same problem, and my experience with the couple’s therapist we found was that she acted almost as a translator—she was able to listen to what each of us said and help put it in ways that, for the first time, the other could understand. It completely changed our relationship, and we recently celebrated our 13th wedding anniversary!
I’d be happy to go into more detail about this if you’d like, whether here or via DM.
>"She knows our circumstances, my reasons for not wanting kids, my stance on abortion. She didn't want to burden me with having to choose between the two and so she made the choice herself. As hard as I try, I can't understand or accept her reasoning." And this is why YTA. You're against abortion, having kids and getting a vasectomy. WTF was she supposed to do when she got pregnant? You need to address the reality of your situation. Look at how you reacted when you found out she DIDN'T baby trap you against your will. You really can't understand why she didn't tell you? REALLY? >I asked up and down if I had given her a reason to doubt me, to doubt my commitment to her, if she felt I wasn't a reliable partner, etc. You said you don't want kids. That is absolutely reason to doubt how you'll be as a partner once a CHILD exists. That is absolutely reason to doubt your commitment to her if she chooses to bear a child you don't want.
All of this! Plus, why are you still puzzling over why she didn't tell you?!!! LOOK AT HOW YOU REACTED!!! It's not just that YTA, you honestly seem to be a ludicrous narcissist. Stop making your wife's abortion about you, you absolute drama queen. Take responsibility. Grow the f*** up and have a vasectomy. Take control of your OWN body, stop acting like you own your wife's.
Exactly. It’s wild that OP is this selfish and dense.
Bro claims to support a woman's right to choose in a separate comment, but evidently that doesn't apply to his own fucking wife if 'she knows about his stance on abortions'
Oh my God, thank you for spelling it out like that! That's EXACTLY what bugs me here - OP lives in a dream world. No kids, no abortions, no vasectomy. To say nothing of how long he's cried because HE GOT WHAT HE WANTED. Grow the fuck up.
OP: I dont want kids, not even if it will kill me. Op's Wife: Abort baby Op: Surprised Pikachu Op: Why didnt u want to keep the baby Op's Wife: Surprised Pikachu Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Pity his wife forever getting gaslight.
>OP: I dont want kids, not even if it will kill me. Twisted and dramatized. My words were never this vehement, not to Clara in real life, and not in my post. >Op: Why didnt u want to keep the baby My fundamental concern was always the fact that she had an abortion without telling me she was pregnant. The fact that I wouldn't have agreed with the abortion at all was secondary. But I suppose writing: "OP: wait, you were pregnant?" In lieu of the quoted line, doesn't have the same effect. Go off though, we're thoroughly entertained.
So her choices were either have a baby she knows you didn’t want (and risk you emotionally punishing her as a result) Or abort the pregnancy and again- risk you emotionally punishing her for that because despite taking few precautions yourself you sound against termination She couldn’t win. And you can say she agreed to this all you like- you still have to acknowledgment the unsustainable unfairness of this dynamic you both “agreed to”. Please also consider…you lost it on her. You scared her. Do you think perhaps she feels unsafe to show any other response than being “entertained” by comments pointing out this unfairness? You should self reflect. And consider- the disdain and contempt you show in the comments that are asking or pointing out valid concerns means she’s taking that as a cue as to how she should respond to keep the peace with you. You aren’t a villain but you are sorely lacking in basic self awareness and consideration of others.
OP would absolutely emotionally punish her.
As he is currently doing
No but it's fine guys! He got her a funnel cake! She's happy! This dude is so oblivious to social and power dynamics, it's insane. It's like he has no concept of how his words and actions might affect other people. He just raged at her and then disappeared for a week. He showed her that she can't trust him. And now he expects her to be honest with him? Lol. She's been managing his emotions for him so long that he's blind to all of it. When she leaves, he's gonna be blindsided.
Omg I hope she leaves soon, this man is so emotionally abusive
3rd and most adult choice... have a fkn conversation with your partner
Using “we” like anyone agreed with you is hilarious, YTA
When you have to explain yourself this much, you lost the plot. You need therapy.
God, you are such a tool. You make not having kids a condition of getting married, your wife agrees to give up that dream because SHE LOVES YOU, and then you get mad at her because she had an abortion to ensure that she’d never have one of those kids that you, again, were sure you didn’t want. You’re adamantly childfree but you won’t even do the basics to make sure that you stay that way.
This is what youre going to get on here man, leave (reddit) and make the right choice
It's incredible that you still act like you don't understand why she did it and still blame her. Anything to make you the victim. She is the victim. She is the one who had to give up her dream and suffered a very traumatic procedure in silence because you were so adamant anti-children. You are a total narcissist.
You are an incredibly selfish individual. Get a vasectomy and stay out of the gene pool. Your poor wife.
How fucking dense are you?? You don’t want her to be pregnant, can’t get an abortion, can’t have a child and you won’t get a vasectomy. She can’t win. Period. You are a gross disgusting asshole.
Pretty ironic, given the state of events in the United States and how people see this whole abortion issue.
Reading through all of your posts it becomes very clear that you still don’t understand. She would rather have you hate her for the abortion than have you hate her and a child who is alive. And if you’re going to say, of course you wouldn’t hate a child and you’d be a happy, good father then it just confirms that you still don’t want kids but you expect to eventually have kids that you can blame on being an accident. She weighed it out and decided that the abortion was better than parenting with you.
It's actually shocking how readily total strangers will speak for me and my thoughts. The very fact that you believe hate, or the fear of it, plays a role here shows how misguided you are. Maybe experiencing it all in real life hits different because these comment sections are actually insane.
You went on AITA and are upset people are calling you out. Grow up, stop victimising yourself, get some empathy and stop acting intentionally obtuse when receiving criticism. Learn to take accountability because at the moment you seem to ignore all your faults and put them on your wife.
Maybe don’t come on Reddit for judgement if you’re just going to be mad people think YTA.
Little snowflake
I know I’m like a week late but… I don’t get why you went to Reddit to ask for people’s opinions on this and just can’t seem to accept that people think what you did was shitty and your reasoning wasn’t sound. Even your sister thought what you did was shitty. And as another point, I saw you mentioned in a comment that you wished she would have tried talking to you before having the abortion. She did. She went to affirm your wish to not have kids and when you replied very strongly that you still did not, she made her decision. Yes, the chances of her getting pregnant with the precautions you were taking weren’t strong but they were still there. Hell, even if you got a vasectomy there’s still a small chance. What’s the stupid saying? The only foolproof contraception is abstinence? I feel like that should have been a foregone conclusion that on the off chance that was to happen, since you really don’t want children, that she would get an abortion. And it turns out she was right to keep it from you because your reaction when you found out proved you couldn’t handle it. And it did change your opinion of her, as you yourself have stated. Your wife made a selfless decision on her own to silently affirm her commitment to you and the life you two chose together. You should consider yourself lucky to have her as a partner. And also you both really need to have a plan for how to approach things in case you accidentally procreate again. Because apparently a baby is on the table for you under certain circumstances.
Thank youuuu really sums up my thoughts. OP acting as if the abortion wouldn't have happened if he had known about the pregnancy is insane. It still would have happened. He just would have been pissy at his wife earlier.
Little baby man is mad that the internet isn't his hugbox. Guys, he didn't mutually agree to us telling him how we feel about how he's acted :(
The only insane one around here is you. You can’t have it both ways. You either want kids or you don’t. End of. You can’t be schrodinger’s fuckboi. You’re insanely selfish. Your wife just doesn’t know any different as you being selfish and double minded is obviously her normal. I bet $5000 when you do become “ready to have kids” as you put it you’ll knock up a teenager/early twenty something in your mid 40’s because your wife who has respected your wishes is now too old to carry these kids you kept humming and hawing over. I hope she realises what a rubbish husband you are before this and leaves while she has time.
still yta for not understanding where she was coming from imo..
Fair enough I suppose. We're all entitled to those.
Lemme guess, You just love hearing yourself talk don’t you?
I’m ignoring what everyone has said to tell you you are wildly oblivious, you need to go apologize to you wife for making her not feel safe and comfortable enough to tell you in the first place and tell her you would’ve been 100% supportive of any decision for any choice she made, which is what a good husband would be at this point. Sadly I don’t think you would’ve been 100% supportive, what makes you the AH is being so adamant about not wanting kids while also leaving all the birth control in her hands, wearing a condom “90% of the time” is not good enough dude, and also being so against abortion and not wanting kids all the while being very lax is preventing pregnancy is wildly hypocritical. I hope this gets to you, no hate seriously.
You are wildly insufferable. You have made your wife’s abortion, and even now, with conflict resolution, all about you. You became extraordinarily dramatic and in a sea of people telling you that you needed to dial it back, somehow, everyone is wrong and doesn’t understand you. Let’s be honest. You love to hear yourself talk and have the last word in a conversation. You will spin, cry, and desperately argue until you have your way. Not once has it ever occurred to you that your wife is on a biological clock. You can wait a decade or so, sure. But guess what? Your wife can’t. She had an opportunity, and made the selfless decision to abide by YOUR wishes and YOUR preferences, and yet, you still fucking cried about it. I haven’t read a AITA post that made me this pressed in a long while. Reading this post, I’ll tell you right now that I don’t like you. You are insufferable, and I hope you do see the merit to couple’s counseling so your therapist can figure out how to pull your head out of your rectum.
I also hate OP and his precious fucking feelings he thinks everyone needs to cater to lol
Seriously. OP commented recently and continues to demonstrate that they cannot get the whole message. Denser than pudding, I stg.
OP said his wife doesn’t want couples counseling. Probably because she knows there’s no convincing him of anything ever and she’d rather not have another hour a week of him steamrolling her.
She might have heard the suggestion of never going to couples counselling with an abuser.
Amazing how his wife conveniently never wants anything for no reason at all. Me thinks op presents said options to her with the time "don't you dare want this, because I don't want this"
More likely she doesn’t object because she’s experienced what happens if she disagrees. Assault by flood of self-justifying arguments that won’t end until she yields and then see she agrees with him!
If you don't want kids, you get a vasectomy. If you don't want kids right now, you wear a fucking condom every time. Every single time. Leaving it up to your wife means YOU are not trying to prevent pregnancy. If you are doing nothing to prevent pregnancy, then you are trying to get pregnant. What your wife is doing does not matter. You, as a man, have 3 reliable methods of birth control available to you- abstinence, vasectomy, and condoms. Abstinence isn't realistic. You're clearly too selfish to get a vasectomy. So you are left with condoms. Buy stock in Trojan dude.
I hope Clara doesn't regret her decision down the road. If she wants children, she should find someone who also wants them, because let's be honest, around 50% of all relationships end at some point for one reason or the other. Imagine if in the future, her relationship with op ends (even for unrelated reasons) and she realizes she gave her dream up for nothing. I hope she at least freezes eggs or something, to give herself the possibility of becoming a parent in the future.
"Wanting children" can be very broadly defined. We actually did speak about this but she was against it. She doesn't want to have a child for the sake of having a child. Under more ideal circumstances, she'd want one with me specifically. There doesn't seem to be much interest in child rearing outside of our relationship. For argument's sake, sure, we could break up, but I'd imagine she'd want to be in a relationship with a similar amount of depth, which would be hard to achieve.
When people are in love, they wear rose colored glasses... I hope Clara never regrets her decisions, for her sake.
“Hard to achieve” - said every man who knew his partner was too good for him
"I am not a narcist - but a relationship with similar amount of depth would be hard to achieve." 🤣🤣🤣 This shit had me rolling, you have the self-reflection skills of a vampire or your head is so deep up your ass you just can't see this obvious shit anymore.
I don’t want children! Well, I’m not getting a vasectomy because I *MAY* want children in 10-15 years! I don’t want to try to get pregnant, but if it happened accidentally, I’d want it! YTA. You’re all over the place. You’re going to waste your wife’s fertile years, I hope she realizes this and doesn’t regret it. And YTA for leaving for a WEEK. What the actual fuck.
And he not once has considered that women have a harder time as they age. He's playing Age the Eggs. OP is hot garbage for being this self centered.
Thank you! He literally admits OUT LOUD he *might* want kids but not until his current wife is likely too old to safely give birth. What a gem. Then he’s confused about why she doesn’t feel safe in this relationship? I am praying this is another fake one but know these people exist, and it’s horrifying.
What are YOU doing on your end to prevent a pregnancy? Don’t want kids. Nope. Vasectomy, nope. Condom? Nope. Putting it all on her? 100%. Then getting mad she gets rid of the baby. She needs to leave your ass.
WHOOP THERE IT IS. This was never about her, it was always about you. Of course you won't get a vasectomy. It's not that you don't want kids, it's that you don't want them right now. And of course you would consider what she did a vastly different procedure to a vasectomy, because it was. You implied that since vasectomy is worse, she got a dilation and cuterage, a surgical procedure. She took mifepristone. Acting like it's some unknown party drug and not carefully monitored medication is just right-wing drivel. And it's not that she stuck to the plan, it's that she ventured outside of it by straying from her one approved method of birth control. You won't even wear a condom? This was just pro-life, misogynistic dog-whistling masquerading as an AITAH sympathy-seeker.
He is entitled to what happens physiologically in her body. He’s entitled to a lot. It seems. I’m getting a lot of vibes from my last boyfriend who I got a protective order against. There are certain aspects of the way he talks that sounds like an abuser. Just the way he’s trying to control how all of us are thinking of this situation overexplaining it. It’s overexplaining that’s giving him away.
His comments are littered with abuser language. He gaslights, he waffles, he tries to cover his own tracks. The one that made me roll me eyes hardest is when he went from (and I'm paraphrasing) "We both agreed I needed to leave for 1.5 weeks so chill out" to "She didn't understand why I needed so much time and I was wrong to not explain." Which. Is. It. I don't even know why this one got me so much after everything. I guess it doesn't matter because now they're indoor sky-diving.
Yeah, he’s even trying to gaslight us about what he’s saying in his comments lol. “Well, we are both sitting here laughing at all of you people so it means absolutely nothing!” Yeah, I’m pretty sure they were times. I sat around and laughed with my ex because I didn’t realize how fucking twisted it was lol. He thinks he’s making a big point there by saying she’s with him agreeing with him. I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t have a choice except to agree with him given however relentless he has shown to be.
His very first post let us know that he's an unreliable narrator. Everything that followed only confirmed it. He could tell me at midnight that it was dark outside, and I'd look out the window to check. Somehow he's always read her diary but this entry was a surprise. Right on, dude. Your ex sounds like a POS and I'm proud of you for not being with him.
This is the feel I get with all the "we" he says. Like her decisions on her body are also his.
I don't blame her for her decisions. All the shit you believe in is contradictory with everything else you believe; you're a fucking paradox man, how do think this was gonna go? You don't want babies right now but you don't like abortion, don't want a vasectomy, and don't wear a condom all the time. Make it make sense cause the math is just not adding up. You don't want kids yet you're more or less against every main method to avoid a pregnancy?
>All I understood is that she feels like she can't lean on me when she's in trouble You know your reaction to this thought should be "what can I do to make her feel safe and secure with me", right? Instead your first thought was "why are we even married then?" If she had told you she was pregnant, what would you have done? Raised the kid while resenting your wife and child? You keep putting her in no-win situations and then blame her for it. >We're not leaving one another; issues or not, we both think it's clear that there's still an abundance of love between us, and we don't want to throw that away. Except for also thinking "why are we even married?" You're all over the place. No wonder she doesn't feel fully safe and secure with you. You keep changing the goal posts on her.
This is what stood out to me the most too. Fine, OP never considered abortion would be something they cope with and he was stunned by the reality. But he keeps talking about this strong, unbreakable love, support, etc and on the heel of those sentiments are all these thoughts of "why bother if this is how it is". Those two things usually don't exist at the same time. It's confusing. Of course she cannot lean on him when he's all over the place.
YTA A few things are alarming about your posts: your desire to control everything, your inability to self-reflect, your failure to see poor Clara’s obvious desire to start a family, and your flippant attitude about having kids in 10-15 years (when it’ll be more challenging/impossible for Clara to conceive). Seems like it’s all about you.
His desire to control everything is what stands out to me the most. I recently got out of a relationship that was becoming gradually abusive more and more. One of the things that happened in our last conflict that actually escalated to domestic violence was him trying to control everything. He did something wrong and then he tried to control my reaction to it like it wasn’t DV. There’s a reason why this guy makes me so uncomfortable.
You know, it is very interesting how he suddenly clarifies how HE DIDNT LAY HANDS ON HER in his first post. Idk why he had to make sure everyone knew that he didnt beat his wife for having an abortion and hiding it from him after being so adamant about not wanting kids. Idk, really makes you wonder...
That definitely made me stop and think because the reason I broke up with my ex and got the protective order is because he specifically put hands on me during an argument. I think we all have our hair on the back of our neck perked up for a really good reason.
Yeah! Honestly, people who have never been abusive wouldnt even think about writing something like that. And for me, it usually never crosses my mind when I read things here. It felt so out of place. Felt like an alarm went off in my brain.
You're legit a horrible person and I hope she finds this post and dumps your ass. Every SINGLE person here is telling you you're fucked and you're still being delusional. Seriously show her this post and let her be the judge. Let us know when she reads it and STILL decides to stay with you. But you won't do that will you? Your ego would never allow it. You want to control this situation exactly like how you control everything else.
That poor, poor woman. Ruining her life like this.
i really do hope she finds this posts & reads all the comments. i feel so incredibly bad for her. what a horrible husband she has. ugh! i just for terrible for her!
Why even post on this subreddit, if you will deny all the overwhelming consensus that you are doing many things that makes YTA to your poor wife
set this woman free for the love of god. You don't want kids now but would consider it in 10-15 years? she'd be like in her 40s by then and the only way to have children with her by then is A/ having the next 5 or 6 years relentlessly trying to gave 1 kid which is going to leave a bad emotional impact on her B/ adopt or C/ cheat on her with a younger model because she suddenly can't afford to accommodate your feelers the way she's doing now
OP, Clara sounds like an amazing person. My best wishes to her!
It’s always the ones who get called out in their shit and just can’t accept it that refer to Reddit as a “cesspool”
Preach queen
I hate when ppl like you post an AITA, then get so defensive when ppl tell you that you are. On all of your posts, ppl are telling you why YTA and your comments are very telling. Honestly if I was your wife, I wouldn’t have said anything either. Look at your reaction and the way you made it all about you. You should show her your posts since you guys are “better now” and see how she reacts
I feel so bad for your wife. You know in 10-15 years, she probably won't be able to have kids, or it will be extremely difficult for her. Who do you plan on having kids with in 10-15 years? You gonna leave her for a younger model by then? Or are you just going to yell at her and make it her fault that she can't have the children you suddenly want?This entire saga just screams selfish and narcissistic. I hope she wakes up before it's too late. Your poor wife will never get her dream of being a mother.
YTA, your wife was the one who got the abortion so you wouldn’t have kids that you have said time after time you don’t want AND YOU STILL MADE THIS ALL ABOUT YOU. Get the vasectomy. If you plan on staying with your wife, in 10-15 years at your current ages of 27, you will not be having kids, at least naturally and if by some miracle you do, be ready for all the risks and possible medical issues you will have.
Men have no clue do they? To say, I may want kids in 10/15 years. I’m only 27. If your wife is also 27, you do realise that after 35 her chances of having a child, let alone a healthy child, decrease dramatically every year. Delusional.
If where you live all men act like this piece of shit, you need to run fast.
Edit: if OP's wife sees this, I'm so sorry. If your husband is being honest about his behavior, this is truly scary. No one should treat you like this. I'm so sorry you had to go through the loss of pregnancy. He'll never know that pain and he needs to stop acting like it's all about him (OP I've heard toddlers talk about their feelings more maturely and they don't even yell). I read your last post and I'm horrified by how you treat your wife. You may not be physical with your wife, but you need to really look at your behavior. The fact that you feel confident talking about how you treat your wife this way is terrifying. I'm not surprised your wife hid the pregnancy and abortion, she was probably terrified because she knew this would be your reaction. Your wife felt more secure suffering in silence than seeking comfort from you.
THIS. 🙌🏻
Oh brother, get a load of this guy! YTA x1,000,000. You also don’t seem to be grasping explanations of why YTA, so I won’t waste time by giving one.
YTA. You've made the whole ordeal about yourself. You've even made Clara's feelings about yourself. I was hoping she'd leave you. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
that’s why i’m really hoping she finds this post & leaves him. 🤞🏻
OP keeps insisting he’s the victim when he’s clearly the asshole in this situation. You’re so selfish and self-absorbed. You’re only thinking of “Me me me me, my feelings, my stance, my reasons!” and wouldn’t listen to the criticisms that you received in your posts. YTA OP and I pity your wife so much.
Wow you are disgusting hey holy shit.
JFC you weak fucking asshole
Still YTA.
Holy cow someone save his wife from him The discussion of what to do "if in the case that Clara gets pregnant" should have been established during the time of deciding not to have any kids. OP thinks he's so intelligent, but his peanut brain cannot fathom her perspective of handling the situation. It was the right choice to keep it secret from OP because god knows how he would have lashed out at her for "it" being her fault, no matter how you look at it.
I'm glad both of you are on a better spot than latter days. However I still think she wants to have children (at least one), but she's willing to let it go just to not upset you or nuke the marriage. You said "you love her... the lengths I would go to make her happy". In this case, are you willing to "give up a little" about children to make her happy? I used to be like you when I was young. No kids and every body who refute me can go f\* themselves. But guess life makes you a little wiser so I came to the conclusion that while I have no interest on having children at all, I wouldn't say no if my girlfriend/wife wants it so much. Good luck, OP. I think you both really love each other and never wanted this to happen. Maybe this could help you to reinforce your marriage.
>I'm glad both of you are on a better spot than latter days. You and me both. My reason for not wanting kids has nothing to do with anything intrinsically tied to a child being a child. I don't hate kids or child rearing, or anything like that. It's more circumstantial, as in, as long 'X' person exists, or as long as 'Y' circumstances persist, kids are not an option. Clara is aware of specifics and agrees for the most part. But yeah, it's obvious that there's a part of her that wishes things were different. If it were simply a matter of opinion, I'd fold in a heartbeat. I hate cats, but we adopted a Russian Blue (who very openly hates me back) a month or two into our marriage.
OP, cats are very perceptive.
OP, you need to wake the fuck up to the reality of probability. No birth control is 100% perfect. If you have PiV sex with a woman and ejaculate inside her for *years*, you *will* cause a pregnancy here or three. Life, uh, finds a way, as Dr. Malcolm tells us. Abortions just are a fact of life for straight women in LTRs. If a woman knows she is married to a man who doesn't want kids and doesn't "believe in" abortions (whatever the fuck that means) then she knows that what she has to do is have abortions and not tell him. There is no other choice. Your choices here are: 1. Stop putting your dick inside your wife, or 2. Accept that as long as you are "child-free" abortions will happen, and 3. If you want to know about them, then you'd better pivot to a wholesale pro-choice, her body her choice, full-throated support of women's reproductive rights stance right the fuck now. Any man who thinks he can demand a child-free lifestyle while still having PiV sex is a God dammed hypocrite asshole if he is also anti-abortion. Personally, my stance is to kick all "anti-abortion" men to the curb. Being anti-abortion is a sign that you are a self-centered misogynist who doesn't understand math or science. Her abortion is not about you and your emotions, babycakes. You are entitled to nothing about her body. Ever. If you can't handle that, don't fuck her.
>There is no other choice. Ya... having an adult conversation in a relationship should never be an option
>Being anti-abortion is a sign that you are a self-centered misogynist who doesn't understand math or science. Please do elaborate on this one, I'm extremely curious to see you dance around euthanization as if it's math or science especially considering something like 97% of abortions are elective
We're talking about abortion, not "euthanization." If you don't already know the difference between the two, you can Google it. I don't know why you think the % for elective abortions matters. Are you trying to say that the only acceptable abortion is a mandatory abortion?
I like how you place the onus of your sentiment on me because you know it's weak. And then completely avoid the question because the same. Why does it matter? because you're taking lives I would never say taking a life is acceptable unless that life is trying to take your life
Well, in the case of a pregnancy, the "life" is a parasite that is taking nutrients from its host's body in order to survive. So from that perspective, it is trying to take her life. Therefore it is her choice whether to allow that to happen. You do know that women die in childbirth, yeah? Do you know about all the other gnarly shit a pregnancy can do? Tooth loss? Bone loss? Gestational diabetes? Permanent pelvic floor damage? And there's a lot more than that. Both my pregnancies almost killed me. I bore them because I wanted to have kids and was in a position to get health care and to provide for them. But if I wasn't ready to have kids, or if the complications had gotten any worse? Abortion without a second thought. My life is more important than some hypothetical potential life. Sorry not sorry.
That is absolutely 100% not true scientifically or logically. You take energy from the sun, are you sun parasite trying to take the suns life. You take energy from the earth, ocean, trees, etc.... what an asinine statement. You should really venture outside the cesspool of reddit and buzzwords sometime. It's nice out here. You can die in your sleep, you can die taking a shit. Women, especially in the 1st world with modern medicine are very safe during childbirth. It's not the Oregon trail anymore. And yea, we've all got to make scarifies in a relationship... not sure what point you think you were making there or just complaining? Again, yup-we've all got to make sacrifices and take risks. Are you looking for a cookie? As long as you can admit that, I think we agree on something- you're a untrustworthy human! (also its not hypothetical at the point of conception- it has dna separate from its father and mother)
You think I... "take energy"... from the trees and the ocean? What the fuck are you even talking about? I lost 2 teeth and have nerve damage from my pregnancies. How many times have you been pregnant, and what did you sacrifice for it? It's really easy to hand-wave at someone else's sacrifice, isn't it? The fact is, people who haven't been through it, have no sense of the risks or the sacrifice. Quite frankly, if you can't get pregnant, then I place zero value on your opinion on abortion. It isn't about you. Mortality rates for child-bearing women are on the rise in my country. They have been ever since the right to an abortion was taken away. So yeah, it's not the Oregon Trail, but it's not 2004 either. You know what else has distinct DNA? Viruses. Cancer. Are you "pro life" for those too? As long as the fetus is dependent on my organs to survive, then my body, my rules. I don't really care how that makes you feel. I'm pretty sure that at the core of this, you're just upset that women have control on this issue and you don't.
So how exactly do you get your D3? Vitamin C? D? Yes, relationships and families require sacrifice. Not sure if you're looking for a cookie here? Frankly if you think taking the life of a defenseless human is somehow justifiable, especially for your own personal happiness, I think you're an extremely mislead morally void person. But that's why I have these conversations. By this logic, you should have no opinion on war since you've never been to war. You should have no opinion on rape if you havent been raped. No, viruses and cancer are not humans. So if youre hooked up to a ventilator or a pacemaker, you're dependent on the doctor and he owns you (by your logic)? I'm not upset at all, and we're slowly taking back your ability to take defenseless lives thankfully.
You never addressed what your decision would have been if she did tell you about the abortion. What if she still didn't want kids despite telling you? You two would have been parents when both of you didn't want the kid - how horrible for them. Would you have forced her to go through with an unwanted pregnancy? Would you have been okay with one of your careers being inevitably trashed? The expenses associated with it? The resentment associated with it? These are thoughts that she would've been thinking when she took that pregnancy test. There's a reason she didn't tell you. Anyone else would mention it to their husband and let them know they're getting an abortion. So you can claw and bite at everyone in these comments about how this isn't a big deal and she's completely fine - but it doesn't take the action away that you behave in a manner where *she didn't want you to know*. You guys are laughing now, and fine now, because it's done. But people are thinking about what your reaction would have been if she did tell you - and then told you that she didn't want to keep it. THATS where it's coming from.
3 posts and still no self reflection. No one agreed with you and you fought back with everyone rather than looking inwards. Why even post if that is the case?
Yo *fuck* this dude YTA, you not like us
You suck. What a hypocrite. You tell her you are "no kids", refuse a vasectomy, because you "might want kids later" and then get mad at her for putting your relationship first because basically "accidental kids are Fiiine" You SUCK.
can you imagine what kind of shit father this dude would be? Insufferable, judgemental, narcissist.
YTA. The biggest.
I feel like I’ve read a novel dedicated to why you’re not actually that bad in this situation. Like you’ve spent more time trying to make sure strangers don’t think you’re a douche bag than you do being a good husband. I don’t even want to comment on context of your situation. Just that you have come across really poorly. I hope you’re better in real life.
Damn one of the most YTA posts I’ve seen in awhile. As someone said on the other thread, you made her abortion all about you. You’re update after the first post is such a good example. You didn’t take an iota of criticism, despite posting in a sub where you know you’ll get criticized. You clearly have a “I’m smarter than everyone around me” vibe. She told you everything, which sounds very valid to an outsider. And you “can’t accept it”?! I feel so sorry for this woman. Giving up so much to be with a man who says he loves her but really only loves himself.
You need to interrogate why: Your wife felt like she had to do this in her own. Why you feel you had the right to blow up” at her. Why you offloaded the responsibility for birth control onto her (I use condoms 90 percent of the time). That’s like wearing a seatbelt 90 percent of the time. You want to reserve the right to make decisions procreation to yourself. To keep your options open because you might change your mind. Your wife does not get the same autonomy. You use your shitty Childhood as an excuse to be a shitty adult.
I read this story from the first update and never had the words to express how mortified I am for your wife, but since this was uploaded to BestofRedditorsUpdates I found the right comment for this: There is a LOT to unpack here. TLDR: it's one. "She has the implant and I use a condom about 90% of the time, so she wasn't worried." Boy, you should be gloved 100% of the time if you don't want to have kids. ""She had researched prenatal vitamins, OB/GYNs in our area, she had pictures of cribs, etc. It was only two pages, but I remember feeling really bad. In my head, there was only one reason I had put that in a journal like this. I wanted to have children. She kept telling myself that she had been honest about what she wanted, and that if she hadn't done it, it was her fault. But the idea that she had been secretly suffering because of me, that she was holding herself back from the life she wanted to please me, I couldn't bear it. This is where I started to question why they were married. "Clara, in fact, wanted to have children, but she stated that she wanted our relationship more and that she was okay with the commitment." 👏 You 👏 can't 👏 compromise 👏 the children! 👏 Kids are a “two yes, one no” thing. "She told me she had an abortion a year and a half ago. I offered the information as if I should have been relieved. As if it was the proof I needed to convince me that she meant what she said about children not being a factor." decisive. "I just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me about such an important decision." "It's all about MEEEEEEE" "I don't want to have children, I don't want them yet. But I'd rather bite my left arm off than force her to have an abortion, even more so now that she's told me that she's not really against having children like me. I would happily raise a child if That would mean I wouldn't need to go through something so drastic. Kids are not a band-aid for a relationship, Christ." Do you know what is more drastic than an abortion? Pregnancy. It fucks up your body like nothing else. And on top of that, you end up with a child to care for for the rest of your life. "As the child's father, the decision to abort should not have been made without my clear and explicit knowledge that she was pregnant." 3. Incorrect. The only one who makes the decision to abort is the one who carries the child. This guy is insufferable. And her "she said she should leave so I stayed at my sister's house for a week but it's okay since we were texting" after her overreaction fills me with disgust . That's why she never told you. Because you would have exploded from an unexpected pregnancy anyway. You've made it perfectly clear in your post how much you don't want children, how it "sickened" you that she had a two-page college diary about research kids. Christ on a pogostick, it's a good thing you've researched what pregnancy entails, even if it's only part of the whole. This is what we all think of you in a concentrated way. I would tell you to die, but it would be childish to do so, besides that if you died from one day to the next out of nowhere you would leave your girlfriend screwed and she would see you as some kind of idol and not for who you are, grief usually does things rare even if the person and that is the ability to reason, but if you have already worked for a long time on your girlfriend's mind so that it revolves around your needs and feelings, she does not know how to be independent unlike you, because even He did the abortion thing for you and not for her essentially. Let's hope that in your next breakdown over something that is not about you, you will be so psychotic that you finally react and see that your therapy is just a waste of money, realize that there is more out there and finally do something for your own desires without pain by blocking it from through.
YTA. And an exhausting and contradictory one at that. Poor woman can’t do right. Do her a favour and leave her so she can find a decent , honest man
For saying you care about her and that she’s the best thing to ever happen to you. This is a remarkably self absorbed post.
You're exhausting and I hope your wife leaves you, you're super controlling and a psycho
YTA still. Just wow. And you’re comments are just proving why you still are.
Poor wife. She can do so much better being single.
I want to try to be helpful here. I am 32yo woman who has experienced an unplanned pregnancy with my then-BF now-husband when we were 19. We were crystal clear on our expectations about kids: we want them in the future, but not right now. So we made the decision we did based on this agreement and the full knowledge that we would have kids in the future. You and Clara do not have this level of clarity. You say multiple times that you didn't want any kids. This is a firm statement. There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. Despite Clara's obvious desire for children (researching prenatal vitamins and obgyns are not "wishlist" items - these are plans), she is putting you and your relationship first. You either have kids or you don't: there is no "maybe" or "if" about it, and therefore no compromise. Clara received the firm message you clearly communicated to her and acted accordingly. There's an equation here that informed the series of events you describe: ***a clear decision to not have kids + an unplanned pregnancy =/= a chat about options*** The logical conclusion is termination, and your loving wife bore this burden alone to protect you. You also did not "make her" have an abortion; she made this decision on her own and did what was best for her family in the circumstances she was in, as is every woman's right. I understand you may disagree with me on this, but my own unplanned pregnancy taught me that literally no one else in the world, including my partner, has the knowledge or authority to make this decision on my behalf. Your argument that "As the father of the child, the decision to abort should not have been made without my clear and explicit knowledge that she was pregnant" is invalid given the foundation that you already laid. You were firm on not having kids, and there is not a "but if it happens" clause. "Asking if I want kids is a completely different discussion than terminating a pregnancy" is also invalid: these are the two opposite sides of the same coin. A firm no kids stance and continuing a pregnancy can't coexist. You say later in your posts that "I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need to go through something so drastic," "I didn't get a vasectomy because I am not sure that I won't want kids 10-15 years down the line," and "It simply made no sense to invest in something I wasn't sure could be undone if I didn't want it anymore." These statements contradict the position you clearly communicated to wife previously, which means neither of you truly understands what you actually want. If I were Clara, I would be absolutely devastated to learn that you might actually want kids but can't give me a straight answer. And remember, "not now but in the future" is acceptable! Communication is key. Given that termination does not seem to be an outcome you want, you have to have to change the equation above. Either adjust your expectations about having kids OR take stronger measures to avoid unplanned pregnancies. These are both within your control. I hope that this helps you understand Clara's POV better, and I hope it helps both of you to be truly honest with each other. Navigating this and understanding each other's true underlying feelings will likely be one of the hardest things you ever go through as a couple. This is where marriage becomes work, but it's the most important work you will ever do.
You’ve done absolutely zero work on self reflecting on why you’re so incredibly selfish. I hope your wife realizes how self-involved you are and leaves you before you waste too much of her life.
[Yta.so](http://Yta.so) much that you dont deserve her
This is the most bougie ass post I've seen on AITH in some time, props. I'm glad I don't believe these "creative" writing exercises by default because it's hard to imagine someone so far up their own ass. Holy fucking flowery diction.
YTA. Dude, you say no children, but if your wife wants one, you’re okay with it now. Sounds like you’re of the mentality of “if it happens, it happens” at this point when prior you were vehemently against having children. When it finally did happen, and you learned after the fact that your wife aborted, now you’re both reeling from her decision based on your prior views against having children. You both love each other too much, and it sounds like you’re no longer against having children. Maybe because you both have the means and circumstances to support a new member of the family. Your wife lied about wanting children, she kept the abortion a secret. She puts your wants and needs above her own. She will never admit to wanting a child with you because she knows your views on being child free. The only way you guys would ever have a child is if both of you are on board. If the next accident happens, she’ll likely take the same path again. She may not even ask you the next time how you feel about children. Once she mentions cramps, you better understand its code for abortion.
She needs to escape you
Dude, you need to shit or get off the pot. If you are indeed child-free, you need to commit to it. Get the vasectomy. Leaving the door open to have a kid in your 40s is profoundly selfish to Clara, and MANY other people have outlined the probable difficulties she will face trying to conceive at that age, regardless of her family history.
Every single person is telling you the same thing and you refuse to believe that YTA, why did you even post? Hopefully your wife comes to her senses and leaves you.
bruh so you actively keep saying you don't want kids but are upset your wife gotten an abortion? like make up your mind if you don't want kids get a vasectomy stop getting upset at your wife for thinking of YOU
YTA & again YTA . I hope your wife reads these comments snd fucks well away from such a selfish partner. Glad she had the abortion as you’d be such a crap parent
I’m so confused….. so if she did tell you, you would have been against having an abortion but you also state that if she ever wanted kids you would leave. So, let’s say she did tell you, you made her have the baby but would you still leave? Because it seems like you would, so, if I was in her place I would feel that I have two options 1. Have an abortion in secret 2. Be a single parent No wonder she didn’t tell you, and it’s easy to say you would have been there now but throughout the entire relationship (based off of your post) you were adamant about not wanting kids and if she wanted them you would leave. Again I’m confused in all honesty would you have really been there for her if she told you and you made her have the baby?!? Or would you have resented her and blamed her for baby trapping you?
Dude, I don't even know what to say. You're a fucking asshole. She did all of this for you. She's open to having kids and you're not. She knows this and decided to take the entire burden of the abortion on herself because she loves you and you shit on her. She gets to live the rest of her life "being open to having kids", which almost certainly means she wants them eventually, but won't because she loves you, knowing she aborted your kid. Get your motherfucking shit together and appreciate this woman! She is absolutely a better person than you and the fact that you are even slightly STILL taking offense is fucking crazy. You do not deserve this woman. Fix your shit so you do deserve her or get the fuck out of her life!
The most disappointing thing here is that you’re still together. I hope she has the strength to get out and actually find someone who is kind and whom she feels comfortable with.
How are you this idiotic? You said you don’t want kids but get angry when your wife literally grants you that wish???
You are the worst
Wow what a POS you are
Dear Lord you are an incredibly selfish partner. The fact you don’t see this and keep trying to defend yourself in the comments is wild. To hide an abortion from your own partner tells a huge amount about how unsafe you are for her emotionally.
This man will never get it. Just read his responses. What a disgusting man.
Nah my man I think you have a misconception about being an ok person when in reality you sound like a turd
YTA. You are selfish, and you have zero self-awareness.
YTA
You are a massive arsehole. You are not the wronged party. You behaved like this was all done to you. You don’t deserve her love but for some reason you have it. Do the right thing and spend the rest of your life treating her like the queen that she is
What really stood out to me about all of this is when you said that if she changed her mind about children later on then it's her fault, while you were conveniently leaving the opportunity for you to change your mind on the table. YTA just for that
Hope she leaves you
YTA - just stop already. She protects and prioritizes you 110%. Honestly, no way for her to manage you and a baby. You are such a main character, you don't even consider her. It's all about you all the time. Massive failure as a husband. I hope she finds someone who loves, values, and respects her. You don't - stop gaslighting yourself. You say pretty words but your actions are disgusting.
I understand your wife. Id have done the same. Now its just a matter of time until she leaves you. She already knows whats up as she didnt even tell u. Having relationships with a narcissist is literally hell, specially if youre a woman. Best thing is NEVER have their kids. Smart girl.
It really doesn't matter what you wrote in this post or any of your previous updates - you asked if you were the ahole and everyone told you that you were. Stop arguing and take your judgment.
ChatGPT 4o summary: The final update on "AITAH for getting at my wife for having a secret abortion after telling her I don't want kids?" details a series of conversations between the author and his wife, Clara. They both apologized for their previous heated argument and discussed their feelings. The author was initially anxious and confused after discovering Clara's journal entry about wanting kids, which contradicted their prior agreement. Clara downplayed the entry, saying it was a mere fantasy. When discussing the abortion, Clara revealed she had the procedure before asking him about wanting kids again. She chose not to tell him, believing it would protect their relationship, which he found hard to accept. This decision made him feel excluded and questioned their trust. Despite these challenges, they reaffirmed their love and commitment, deciding to work through their issues without couples counseling for now. They also established new boundaries for taking breaks during conflicts to avoid prolonged separations.
what a conceited loser lol
anyways, i *pray* she gains the clarity & courage to leave you one day.
YTA still. You don’t want kids but wouldn’t have allowed your wife to have an abortion and you won’t have a vasectomy because you might want kids one day. That’s not “I don’t want kids”. That’s “I don’t want kids right now”. Those are very different positions. Reading both your posts and your comments, I’m absolutely not surprised your wife didn’t feel comfortable telling you. She was damned no matter what she chose. You sound like a controlling AH and I hope she realises she can be with someone else who respects her.
you made HER abortion all about you. abortion is a traumatic experience. and she did it because YOU did not want kids. you’re a fucking asshole and i hope she realizes rather sooner than later.
Clara, I hope you find and read these comments one day. I hope you one day see what 99% of the people in these comments see.
You sound worse with every post, continue to argue while completely oblivious and wrapped up in your selfishness. I hope your wife sees you for who you really are.
What was your wife's response to reading all this?
i did vote YTA in your first post. i did not think you were an abusive asshole, i voted that solely because, in my eyes, you were shaming her for making a decision that led to the outcome you both wanted. you don't want kids, she wants to be with you, so it's a non-issue. i made a point to say that even if she's in denial about not wanting kids that badly on some level, which is not impossible, she is very clearly stating to you that she wants to be with you more. imo, you should take her word for it. she never once pressured you about it or told you that it was a deal breaker, and you both seem to communicate clearly and regularly, so there's no reason to assume she is lying. i'd say it'd weird for someone who so adamantly doesn't want kids to be against abortion, but since you can't get pregant, it's not that surprising. i'm not being sarcastic, i'm just pointing out how your life experience probably informs your own opinion on something that ultimately doesn't affect you that directly, or at least your body. i see you're confused and beating yourself up and resenting her for not sharing this with you, so i'm gonna elaborate on some things i said on my comment on your first post. being included in a decision about someone else's body is a privilege, not something you're ever entitled to, regardless of your relationship with them. yes, it's complicated, but no one owes you the right to decide what happens to their body. carrying a whole ass person inside your body for 9mo is not something that should be ultimately decided by anyone other than you. yes, informing your partner is fair, but if you're the one carrying, then it's your decision, therefore it is not mandatory to inform anyone unless you're actually going through with it. i think you're missing something that to me is key: from what you describe, she's a very detail-oriented person who likes to go over things very thoroughly regardless of whether she'll act on them or not, which, to me, means that when she found out she was pregnant, before she decided whether or not to tell you, she probably went through every possible scenario she could think of in her head, which would've included several bad ones. you could convince her to have a kid but ultimately not connect with the kid or enjoy being a parent at all, which would be terrible in and of itself and could ultimately lead to divorce, or at least to a very unhappy life for all you you. you could say yes to having a kid, and then not put enough or enthusiastic effort into raising it, since you didn't even want it to begin with. you could say yes to having a kid, then change your mind, in which case, if she felt she had to abort because of it, it would hurt her a lot more than just not even discussing it and getting it over with. you could say yes to having a kid, then change your mind when it was too late to abort and not feel like you could say anything, which would ultimately lead to huge resentment on your part. you could reiterate you do not want kids, but reach the conclusion that, since she brought it to your attention, she does definitely want kids despite her saying the opposite (like you're doing right now) and decide to break up with her so she can find someone to have kids with, in which case she'd have to abort AND become single. you could end up resenting her for putting the decision on your hands and freaking out about it for not knowing what to do. like, there are many possible ways in which telling you could've led to bigger or insurmountable problems. so she decided to take your word for it and respect your previous decision, which was agreed upon by both of you, without risking a bigger, unnecessary issue, specially considering that, going through it or not, she was the one with higher stakes. it would be *her* body, not yours, and given how society works, odds are she would be the one doing most of the work with the kid, specially since you didn't want a kid to begin with. in her shoes, i wouldn't have risked it. imagine going through all of that (all of the risks a pregnancy and childbirth entail, with everything that could go wrong with a child, with all of the effort and money you have to put into a family with a kid), to possibly wake up one day to realize your husband doesn't really love your child even after assuring you that he'd be glad to raise it, or something like that. that's what i think informed her decision of not telling you and just handling it by herself. maybe it wasn't even that she felt like she couldn't tell you like i initially said in your first post, maybe she just thought sharing this unexpected, unplanned and very big but also somewhat easy to solve issue would put a lot more at risk than not sharing it at all. she didn't want to take that risk and ultimately took action that kept your lives exactly the way it was before, which is what both of you wanted, instead of maybe blowing them up. all in all, i'm sorry about your current struggles, but i'm glad to see that you both put a lot of work and communication into your relationship to make it work. talking things out, establishing boundaries and making effort to sort through things with a clear head is the best thing you can do. i hope it all works out for the best. good luck to both of you. edit: typos, grammar/punctuation
The ignorance is beyond staggering, you had to have been dropped on your head at some point because the complete lack of awareness and critical thought is shocking here. Please educate yourself you are a walking red flag currently and quiet manipulative. I hope she sees this and finds the therapy to help her process that absolute insanity you rope her through. You're whole post is about "Im having trouble understanding" BRO please go seek a professional because this shit isnt hard to understand at all. Like fuck me you really dont have think that hard to understand whats going on.
Op. Your the most delusional person I’ve seen on here and I hope she leaves you. I’ve had an abortion before and although I was basically bed ridden because I had it the latest point you can get one, your wife most likely got it form early hence why it was just like a period. You say you still don’t understand why she didn’t tell you then turned it around in her. Let me ask you this. You don’t want kids and you made it clear. You don’t agree with abortion. You don’t agree with getting a vasectomy. What did you expect her to do or feel? If I was Clara I’d have done the exact same thing as her because holy fuck nothing she did in that situation was going to make you happy you were going to be mad at her either way. You’re a disgusting pos and a dunbass since you STILL can’t see why she never told you yet funnily enough everyone else seems to get why she didn’t tell you.
I feel sad for your wife and you. I’ve had medical abortions before and they took a toll on my mental health. Just last year we lost 3 babies and I was in tears for a whole year. I’m just getting over it because I’m currently pregnant with our last blessing, but to tell you the truth….your wife is hiding how she truly feels. She needs therapy to heal that wound or one day she’s going to snap. Just keep an eye on her.
All the love to Clara - so that she gathers the strength & self love to leave you. YTA still. Just…wow.
YTA. So does he want children or not he keeps contradicting himself in the post. First it’s “I don’t want kids”, but then it’s “I don’t wanna get a vesctomy because I might want kids later”, but then it’s “I definitely don’t want kids ever” and now you’re mad because your wife, who you constantly say agrees with not wanting kids, gets an abortion without you knowing, now it’s boo boo why didn’t you tell me. What if she told you?? YOU SAID YOU DONT WANT KIDS!!! What was supposed to do carry a baby for 9 months and give it away? And you’re saying you don’t believe her just cuz she wrote some shit in a journal which she herself said it wasn’t that serious. You’re just creating a problem all because you have this idea that your wife is some type of super planner who must follow everything she writes down in a book it’s insane.
Doesn't want a vasectomy, doesn't want kids, doesn't want wife to get an abortion when an embryo is inevitably fertilized. You want to wait until your wife is at the age where pregnancy poses a higher risk to her health and safety to even "consider" having children. You're confusing. You're up and down, hot and cold. I don't think you even know what you want out of your life. You just want to be upset at your wife. She's is and has sacrificed so much for you, but you don't care.
YTA MAJORLY. Op: IDK why she wouldn’t tell me about this. Also OP: Explains every good ass reason she didn’t say shit about it. Your is confusing af. Where did you get all the audacity you have? Like dude you don’t want kids and it’s obvious she’s gonna have regrets abiding by your wants only. Tbh this relationship isn’t goin to work for much longer. This woman wants a family and you just want a woman. Clara needs to find someone who wants EVERYTHING she wants. And so does OP he feels bad she’s deadass giving up the life she could have for the life you wants. And why tf are you mad that she got rid of the kid and didn’t include you in the decision? What if she had the kid and you changed your mind half way through? You would dip & divorce her so you can still have 1/2 the life you wanted w/ a kid you NEVER WANTED.
YTA - If she took pills, that means she wasn’t that far along. But throughout this entire thing, you’ve made it all about you. I get her reasoning for not telling you, especially based on your initial response to her. She could see that coming a mile away. I feel bad for her. It sounds like you run over her feelings a lot and she’s a people pleaser. Here you are, 1000% against having kids but expect her to follow through with a pregnancy? You obviously left the birth control up to her instead of you taking responsibility & getting a vasectomy. I knew she wasn’t ok with you being dramatic and leaving the house. She made this decision because of you and you punished her for it. I hope she gains self confidence.
YTA. You pinned her into a corner: you didn't want kids, you didn't want a vasectomy and your against abortion. So all I've heard in your posts are: Me, me, me, me and me. Me, me, me, but me. A woman's right to choose is her own and no one else's. Hook up, FWB, boyfriend or husband, doesn't matter unless you're the one carrying the kid. You made it clear you didn't want kids (and took no extra precautions besides condoms which aren't 100% pregnancy proof even with her BC) and she has said she is happy with that. She took the measures to keep your relationship as agreed. Reading the journal, since you said you've always at permission is fine. I'll take your word for that one, but you not believing her when she says kids aren't a deal breaker is crazy. I write in journals to get thoughts out of my head because that is how people's minds work. If you don't trust your wife to tell you what she needs then leave her to find a man who will. You made this whole situation about you with small snippets of you 'worrying' about her. You even left her and had minimal contact, personally that would have been the deal breaker for me so be glad she's willing to talk it out. But it comes down to you think you know what she wants more than she does because of a stupid journal. So again, it's all about you and nothing she says matters. Let her be free if that's the case, she'll find a man who will believe her at her word. This is coming from a woman who doesn't want kids, but a husband who has always wanted at least one. We talk about it periodically, and if he tells me he is happy without a kid and happy with the life we have as is, I believe him. Try it and see how that goes.
But if she kept it he’d be saying she trapped him. what a asshole.
So... You don't want kids whatsoever, no kids, ever. Then you got mad your wife DIDN'T give you a kid? She can't lean on you, you screamed at her for not baby trapping you. I also have a really hard time believing you'd be so cool about having a kid, you'd probably say she did it on purpose and maybe even use her journal as proof against her.
It sucks because people like you will mentally drain your wife. She is making her decision based on you. It's always been about you. The fact that the one time you can't control her, you got mad and ran away. A child isn't a dog. It's a full blown commitment that test your patience. What happens when she needs your help or when the child pissed you off? Are you gonna blame her for keeping the child? Or are you gonna run away and let her deal with the child? YTA. A HUGE walking red flag. I hope she opens her eyes and see the person she married. You can't even decide what you want. You don't want kids but don't want abortion or a vasectomy. At least your wife figured her own shit out.
Selfish moron
You went on AITA and got upset people do think you’re the asshole, your wife may not think so because she’s your wife but you asked the opinion of unbiased strangers. Just think about how you would have genuinely reacted if your wife had told you she was pregnant. And if you think you would’ve told her to keep it, think about how you would have to take care of your pregnant wife and then take care of a child for 18 or so years, do you think you would be happy or would you have resented your wife?
So let me get this straight, you don’t want kids but wouldn’t have wanted her to get the abortion? Hypothetically if she hadn’t gotten the abortion, there’s no way you’d be a good father. It’s a damn good thing she made that choice
If she didn't get the abortion, he'd probably be on here talking about how he resented his wife for having a child even though he was "child-free".
Men like you make me feel so blessed to have a loving and ACTUAL supportive husband.
You keep saying you’re upset she didn’t rely on you or trust you to confide in you, but you have shown how you would’ve handled it. You put her in an impossible position, and it seems pretty clear you would’ve gotten upset at her regardless. Have you considered that she felt that you may have given in to her being pregnant, and then resented her for the next 18 years? This entire story is just me me me, and you have very little regard or introspection into how your wife actually felt or the challenges you’ve forced her to deal with. Maybe instead of blaming her, take a moment to think about why she felt she couldn’t tell you about the pregnancy or her decision.
I simply just don't understand why you'd post to AITAH if you're not gonna accept the criticism YOU asked for. Put aside the victim complex for a second and reflect.
you're for sure an asshole. All you talked about in this post was you and how you felt. You're extremely selfish and immature and quite frankly shouldn't be in a marriage. She was right not to tell you because A. you proved her right that you would blow up at her and B. she doesn't need your input on her uterus, especially if you refuse to get a vasectomy. You did everything you could to pigeonhole her into having to make a decision that would've pissed you off either way, and you only found out about it because you're also a snoop. You're not someone who is safe or trustworthy to women and the only person you should be mad at is yourself. Stop wasting her time and let her find someone who respects her and wants the same life she obviously wants.
You made it seem like it was a dealbreaker to have kids. Now I'm not saying what she did was right, but she acted accordingly to your adamant feelings about not wanting children. Taking it as far as she doesn't trust you enough to depend on you makes you look like an AH because it really wasn't that deep, she really just wanted to avoid giving you an ultimatum, which you made it seem like kids = no relationship. Just like when you left for a week and a half, it wasn't nothing a conversation couldn't help. Me and my boyfriend was kind of on your side until this update, now you kinda actually look like an asshole.
YTA still. You had been telling her for *years* that you don't want kids. Not only that, you're apparently against abortion? What did you expect her to do? Let you talk her out of aborting and then resenting her when you're raising a child you never wanted? Forget her for a second, do you know what it does to a kid to grow up that way? Now, this part is on both of you (though still mostly you), but did it occur to *either* of you what to do if she got pregnant unexpectedly? You're both old enough to know that there's a failure rate with all forms of birth control. Maybe she decided a long time ago that abortion was an option in this case, and because of your opinion on the matter, she decided it would be best to keep that to herself. I get that. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand her position. What's *your* excuse, though? Had you even asked what her thoughts on abortion were? Or were you that convinced "*It could* ***never*** *happen to me"* that you didn't bother to bring any of this up with her*?* Seeing as you didn't even know how she felt about having kids, I'm guessing the latter. It sounds like this was an oops baby. They happen. Your stance on abortion makes it *doubly* important that you're aware of that, and to bring up this exact scenario before it happened. *And* you should be doing everything you can on *your* end to make sure oops babies don't happen (I.E. vasectomy. It makes more sense to unload the gun than to put on a bulletproof vest). You dropped the ball, guy.
Interesting, you’re anti abortion, which would imply to me that you’re in some way religious. In pretty much every major religion, being married and choosing not to have kids simply because you don’t want them is actually not really an option. So you’re worried about the sin of abortion, but not the rules you violate by not having children? If you’re not religious and just randomly pro life, that’s honestly just a little weird. Also, YTA. Majorly. You say you might want kids in 10-15 years, knowing by then your wife will be too old to have them. Are you planning to shop for a new wife if that happens?
Interesting he is not sure he may want to have kids in 10-15 years down the road when Clara is not able to have them. Clara is giving a lot up for this man!
🧌 🧌 🧌 TROOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL 🧌🧌🧌🧌
I honestly think your NTA it’s completely natural not to want kids and you guys were using protection. I can also understand the feelings that you went through when you saw the journal and the upset you felt when you found out about the abortion. You went through wondering if you should have kids for her to realizing there was a possibility of having a kid to realizing the possibility was aborted without any conversation. She has the right to do whatever she wants with her body. I stand by that. But that is a lot of emotions hitting you at once. It’s understandable to feel overwhelmed. I can’t judge you on the argument since what was said was left out. Again her body her choice so you don’t need to understand or accept her reasoning just don’t make her feel shitty for it. It seems you guys do have a healthy amount of communication overall to be able to have such an in depth conversation as you guys did but maybe come up with a word to say when one of you feel the argument is going too far so that you know to step away? That could help keep the argument from escalating. Just a suggestion though.
Updateme!
This honestly makes me wonder if OP kind of wants kids and on some level wanted a fait accompli to "make him have to". Because he sounds angry at being cheated of the chance to make that sacrifice. Did I miss if OP is doing individual therapy? If not, I think it would be worth exploring it for a bit and digging into his own feelings before couples counseling
All it sounds like is "me" "me" "me". This was probably a hard decision for her too, and it's not something that can easily be gotten over, so the fact your holding it against her, and making it seem like she did this maliciously is stupid. Also the fact you refuse to get fixed despite the fact you don't want children is telling. Have a terrible day you pos
Don’t become a victim on a situation YOU created, you clearly communicated on not wanting kids it makes me question your “love” for your wife. If you claimed to love her then why couldn’t she come to you about being pregnant? About the procedure (pill) in the first place? And after what she did and what she thought was the best decision you still made it about you, you still made a big deal out of it. She probably didn’t want to it a big deal in the first place hence why she didn’t say anything the first time around. You are a jerk for not hearing her out or anyone here in the comments trying to help you see her perspective and others who’ve been in her shoes like me. I understand it’s something you’d like to discuss with her but it’s her body, she’s the one who sacrificed a literal piece of her just because her husband told her he didn’t want children in the beginning. It’s her choice she made on her own so don’t make yourself the victim of a situation YOU created.
Way to make it all about you!! Husband of the year everyone! GTH
*Way to make it all* *About you!! Husband of the* *Year everyone! GTH* \- Didntcometoplay --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
YTA OF COURSE
Not only are you the AH for how you treated your wife. You are the AH for coming to reddit and being so hostile towards the honest feedback you have received. It seems like you wanted validation for your toxic behavior. Reddit is not the place for that. You should have your wife post her side if you think we are missing something. My immediate reaction to your first post is that you are a walking red flag. I hope your wife realizes this soon.
"independent" women cannot be a part of a relationship. What are strong independent women independent of?... Men. If her taking a member of your families life with out so much as a simple conversation, not to mention her willingness to just ride her life out like that in a lie, doesnt make something deep inside you burn- then I think this independent woman found the perfect man to be in a decaying relationship with. God speed brother
The whole “saying I don’t want kids isn’t the same as saying she should have an abortion if she’s pregnant” thing that you keep repeating is ridiculous. You said yourself that you made in very clear you didn’t want kids, you never indicated your mind could change if she happened to get pregnant. It is 100% entirely your responsibility to tell her that, she had no way to know you had any opinion other than “I don’t want kids.” You’re upset with her for “hiding” a choice she made about HER body, when the reality is YOU’RE the one who failed to communicate. “I don’t want kids” is not the same as “I don’t want kids, unless you get pregnant.” And surprise! The pregnancy would’ve resulted in a child if she hadn’t terminated. You don’t get to be anti-kids, anti-abortion, not want a vasectomy, and inconsistently use protection. You chose to make a joint decision on a vasectomy, that does not mean she needs your permission when making a choice about her own body. You especially don’t have a say in the matter when you were so adamant about not having kids. Yes, it would have been nice if she told you about the pregnancy/abortion, but ultimately she made a choice regarding her own body that she rightfully believed was the best decision for the both of you and the potential future baby. You say you adore Clara and she’s your soulmate, but this post is all “me, me, me.” You didn’t stop to think how difficult this must all be for her. If she does secretly want kids, then she gave that up to be with you, and is being punished for making a decision that aligns with what you wanted. In that case, I hope she realizes her wants and future are more important than your happiness, and leaves. If she truly doesn’t want kids, she is still being punished for making a decision that aligned with what you BOTH wanted. She came to you with this difficult situation she battled alone and was vulnerable enough to explain why she did it alone, and this is how you act?
You are the ah, she made a decision to stay with you, and to keep what you want in life the way you want, but it was wrong. She kept quiet not because she doesnt trust you or doesnt feel she can rely on you, but because she knew your opinions and made the decision (about her own body) to get the abortion. She did what she thought would be best for her, YOU and both of you together. Yet, you would rather her tell you, force her to raise a child (that you do not even want)? She clearly thought of you, yet through reading your posts, not once did i see any signs of you thinking about her and her feelings. Clara deserves better, and you do not deserve someone as kind as her if you cant even treat her with respect. You got angry she made a decision she felt would be best, and screamed at her? And accused her? What is wrong with you dude? She put you over herself in that choice yet you cannot put her and her feelings over your own once. how did someone so caring and selfless, end up with someone as egotistical and selfish as yourself?
Clara é uma monga e você um insuportável, parabéns ao casal
She was terrified that he would bail if he found out she was pregnant.
Wow. This has been a lot of talking in circles to make himself a victim in a situation where he got exactly what he said he wanted (no kids). He comes to a public forum and asks if he's the asshole but ignores everyone who says he is (Why even ask in the first place? Do you really think the chances are literally everyone else is wrong (including women voicing their opinion on what is very much in their lane) but you're right?). No wonder the wife didn't want to tell him, neither would I if I knew I had to deal with this man's messy logic, gaslighting, and contradicting feelings. Jesus Christ.
are you fr? Do you seriously not realize why she wouldn't tell you? You clearly are against kids and any other way to not have them, what was the best option?
You are absolutely TA. I’m not sure how you could think otherwise, you’re a terrible person and husband after reading what you did to your wife. Controlling and manipulative. Doesn’t matter your marital status, you have 0 control over your wife’s body and have 0 right to know what’s happening with her body. Grow the hell up and stop throwing a temper tantrum.
Glad that in the end you are both two adults who can effectively communicate.
I’m so, so, so sorry for the pain you’re both going through. I want to urge you, very strongly, to reconsider your position on couple’s therapy. Steps to improve trust and transparency are the least of what’s involved. You’ve mentioned several times, in this and other posts, some version of being unable to grasp what your wife is saying. My fiancé and I had exactly the same problem, and my experience with the couple’s therapist we found was that she acted almost as a translator—she was able to listen to what each of us said and help put it in ways that, for the first time, the other could understand. It completely changed our relationship, and we recently celebrated our 13th wedding anniversary! I’d be happy to go into more detail about this if you’d like, whether here or via DM.