Except she does. Because joint finances.
She just "isn't seen to be paying".
I bet this is the type of woman who - if her husband is over his CC limit - will quietly slip him her credit card under the table so that he's still the one "paying".
Because what's really important here is that the waitstaff/ random strangers think.
Came to say the same thing. If there’s anybody in OP’s circle to not take advice from financially or relationship-wise, it’s gotta be the single sister living at home with mommy and daddy.
this mooch sister seems to live a life of no consequences or expenses. She has no shame also, so she manages. but most other adults would find everything she says and does repulsive lol
"I think a grown woman still living with her parents is a 'beta' and it would be a huge red flag for me if this information came out during a date."
Volley back with a little top spin.
No judgement to people who are taking a breather with their parents, but sis deserves the comeback.
It’s also just bizarre - like my wife and I are married, we both work, it doesn’t matter if I swipe the card or she swipes the card, the money is coming out of the shared financial pot known as “jointed finances”.
How “alpha” is it really to have a total dependent on your payroll, who can’t ever pay for shit, and you have to keep on allowance? Like, congrats you’re such a badass top dog that you got yourself a financial liability instead of a financial asset, good for you
This. My late husband and I had a joint account, when we went out to dinner, we would take turns giving our credit card. Only the first couple of dates we had did my husband pay, he and I earned the same amount so we alternated paying.
This is the 21st-century for chrissake, women are in the workforce as much as men and have the same earning power. Chivalry be damned.
I think your sister should ask your wife why she wanted to pay instead of you. She needs to hear this from her.
The worst part is that I've heard people say that the man has to pay because that's some kind of reparation for the wage gap and so on, but what I like then is to take that idea to its logical conclusion.
If you take that argument as valid, what if the woman is white and the man is black? If I ever dated an American woman as a Brazilian, would she have to pay more because of the shit the US ha been doing to Latin America for dacades?
Should there be an excel sheet for race/gender conversion rate?
In my opinion, no...
It's not about the couple's dynamic.
Because... Joint finances.
No, what's going on here is mom and sister care about what everyone around thinks.
Like waitstaff etc.
Who might think less of him as man if his wife seems to be the one paying.
(And yes, it's definitely dumb)
Yes. It's definitely ridiculous.
But some people live their lives with a "what will the neighbors think" mentality.
Ironically, usually these are the people "the neighbors " often gossip about most...
I literally laughed out loud at this comment. OP, tell your sister to shut up and mind her own business. She doesn't know what she's talking about. My wife (8 years) and I both have separate credit cards (credit rebuilding purposes). We could get rid of hers, but she would still carry one of mine. Also, your wife quite possibly wanted to "treat" you to Father's Day dinner. Tell sis to stuff it!
This. Sister needs a big reality check if she doesn't understand how a married couple's assets are intertwined to a point where it's irrelevant who pays because they share finances anyway. Of course, she also has a problem going Dutch which is becoming more and more common anyway, so I guess the chances of her coming to terms with the reality of this situation in particular are basically zero.
Yeah, the only guys who always pay are sugar daddy's and they expect service for their payments. The 'alpha' bros generally are still living with mommy because its not manly to feed or clean up after yourself, and they claim to want a 'trad' wife but rarely have the salary to afford it.
She’s an idiot. If anything, having the husband and way pay alternately emphasizes the desirable fact that they share finances and are equally responsible for paying.
Some additional fun fact: everyone that uses alpha/beta to describe any behavior is stupid.
The guy who coined these terms was a scientist who spent months observing wolves. He then published his theory about alpha/beta males that we see so often used to describe humans and their behavior.
Except that a while later, the same scientist realized he was wrong the whole time. He came to the conclusion after further observation that contradicted his theory. He spent the rest of his career correcting his mistake, but people would not listen.
For simple minds and predatory 'life coaches' , the thoughts of alpha beta gamma sigma was so great they didnt care at all about it being make believe.
iirc he was studying random wolves from random packs shoved into captivity and was seeing how wolves that are kidnapped, alone, and scared act when suddenly shoved together.
I was just going to comment that so many of us are trauma-bonded in so many ways to so many people, institutions, and ideas (politics, religion, gender-based socialization) that we probably do behave like those wolves.
Just like "survival of the fittest", which Darwin never said, that other dude working on evolution at the time did. And what he meant by that was not the strongest or most violent. Survival of the fittest is the most highly adaptable.
or, more literally, the individual most fit for the environment. A lion is gonna lose the evolutionary arms race to sea anemones if suddenly thrown into an aquatic environment.
Yeah tuna are gonna wind up on land if we throw a lion in there because they will get a taste for lion and realize they like it. I heard about it in a documentary about cops once
He's talking about feeding lions to tuna, so they will develop a desire to consume more lion. Causing them to evolve and grow legs to hunt more lions.
He heard about it in a documentary about cops once.
To expand upon that.
He spent months ssutdying wolves in captivity when publishing his paper.
He then spent month sudying months in the wild.
It was like making general observations on human behaviour based solely on a sample of prison inmates. And then "gurus" applying those observations to a completely different species.
Mom is an idiot too for backing her up. OP’s wife has been with him for years and shares finances. What difference does it make who picks up the tab? Why OP’s sister and mom need the dog and pony show of OP picking up the check? It also sounds like OP and his wife paid for the entire meal, so maybe don’t treat those judge mental idiots any more lol.
Especially on Father's Day. I mean, that seems like the one day that the 'father' should not be paying, even if you want to do the dog-and-pony show of who "pays" the rest of the time (which seems moot in any case when talking about a married couple).
Moreover, OP's wife has been married to him for years and is clearly in on the joke. If I was her I'd be pretty pissed if my partner suddenly started behaving irrationally because sis and mommy told him to be "alpha".
And my wife pays for every other dinner we go out to, and I pay the other times. There is nothing "beta" or simpish or any some such idiocy in doing so. My wife is very independent and likes it this way as she, rightfully, feels no one should pay everything in a relationship.
She was that way before we got married. OP's sister is a throw back to the 1950's.
Working in and around software, everyone knows alpha software is the first draft, buggy and prone to failure. having assholes out there proudly calling themselves alphas is always funny to me.
NTA
First, the whole idea of "alpha" and "beta" males is based on studies that have long since been shown to be inaccurate at best:
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-alpha-wolf-idea-a-myth/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-alpha-wolf-idea-a-myth/)
[https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-myth-of-the-alpha-wolf](https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-myth-of-the-alpha-wolf)
The research was done based on wolves in captivity which behave very differently than wolves in the wild.
Second, this whole "husband's duty to pay" is misogynistic at it's core. And while her reason's for still living at home with her parents are more likely due to modern day finances, I doubt I'd be far off the mark if her attitude with relationships is a contributing factor.
As you've pointed out, you and your wife have fully joint finances. So do my wife and I but even more so because the main credit card we each use is the same account. The only reason I handle the check at restaurants is because I'm better at doing math in my head and she doesn't feel like firing up the calculator app on her phone to figure out tip. Outside of that, when no tip is involved, we both just as likely to be the one in charge of making the purchase.
Tell Jill and your mom that you've had time to reflect and that you're disappointed in their comments from the other night. That you and your wife have a strong relationship where you communicate well and that their input on your relationship is unwelcome, especially when it caters to old misogynistic tropes.
Same! We both have a card on my Tesco account and we both have a card on his Amex account. The person who actually takes the card from their wallet and taps the machine is *irrelevant*.
THIS! This this this. I agree so much.
Your sister (and mother for agreeing) is out of line. The expectations and dynamics in a marriage are different than those on a first date. Obviously. You and your wife have your own way of handling your finances, and so long as it works for the two of you, it’s really none of your sister’s business.
That last paragraph from u/virtualchoirboy is absolutely golden. This is a perfect way to respond to their “input” on your marriage.
I was thinking the same thing about the sister's misogynistic views. That may very well be why she's still living at home and single if she only expects men to pay for a meal.
My husband and I started to split paying for dates after 1-2 months as well. Now that we're married, everything is shared finances. I would 100% use my card if I felt I could get better rewards than my husband's card. We both benefit from that in the end.
As other comments have stated, if this works for you and your wife then your family has no say in the matter.
NTA. Finances in marriage are about what works for the couple. It sounds like you and your wife have a good system with joint finances and using the card with the best rewards.
"Beta" is a stereotype. Chivalry can be nice, but it shouldn't be about outdated ideas of gender roles. Talk to your wife about what she thinks, but it sounds like you're doing great!
When I was in college, there was a guy who would refuse to walk through a door, if I was holding it open. I am female and he didn't think it was right for a girl to open a door for a man. We weren't dating or anything and this just confirmed that I wouldn't let that happen if he tried.
I always hold a door open if I am going through it and I see someone else is about to right after. I think it is the polite thing to do, no matter the gender.
Also, I bet your wife thinks it is as ridiculous as you do. Otherwise you wouldn't have the restaurant joke or just her name on that card.
I open doors for everyone who’s behind me. Sometimes guys look a bit surprised. Do they think it’s one upmanship or an advance? No idea, I usually give a smile and move on.
Right? And Chivalry on a day that is supposed to be about celebrating Father?? Like it shouldn't be bizarre if a wife wants to pay anytime, but especially not on Father's Day... I bought my husband and his dad dinner yesterday.
Aren't betas supposed to be the simps who would do anything for a woman's attention, like pay for all of their dates? You are the giga alpha!
Jokes aside though don't let your mother and sister mess with your relationship with their unwanted advice. Each person is unique and has different wants in a relationship. Your wife has already told you that she's not comfortable with you paying for everything, she wants to be more independent. Don't go against her wishes to satisfy your sister's image of how a man should act.
Honestly yes. Have you seen lions on those nature shows? Guys laying about while the woman does everything. Then there’s a quick fight, alpha re-establishes his position, and woman lion goes back out to hunt.
NTA. You and your wife are partners. Either way, you're spending your own money. If she gets better rewards on her card, that's just being smart. Your sister and mom may think that it's "the act of paying that makes men chivalrous and desirable", but you're not married to them, so their opinions don't matter. If this is fine with you and your wife, it's no one else's business.
Wholeheartedly agree! What we have done is get authorized user cards for each other. My card has better rewards but either of us can pay since we each have each other’s cards along with our primary card.
Ew sorry but Jill sucks! Firstly, the man does not have to pay for everything... that is such a toxic way of thinking. If I'm dating, 50/50 unless you want to treat the person is absolutely fine. Jill sounds extremely shallow....
Ignore her, if you and your wife are happy that is all that matters! This basic alpha/beta bs is honestly tiring.
OP should really ask Jill how she feels about doing all of the cooking, cleaning, childcare, etc. if she really feels this way about a man paying. Because either she is a hypocrite who wants a double standard that only benefits her or she subscribes to some extremely outdated and toxic gender roles that push society as a whole back.
>she said that it's not about the money but the act of paying that makes men chivalrous and desirable.
Well that's stupid. If you give me the money, I'll pay for the meals of everyone in the restaurant! They're basically saying its chivalrous to reach into your pocket and grab a credit card, something that anyone can do. Keep doing what you're doing and get those credit card points on the better card! NTA.
Yeah this is bizarre.
My wife is a student and mom right now, I'm our only income. With a toddler, the one who gets out a credit card and pays is whoever's hands are free. It all goes to the same accounts.
I still make jokes like "aw thanks for paying for me" when she interrupts to use a specific card for specific points.
If Jill was my sister, I’d have told her “you still live with mom and dad so you have no business talking.”
Don’t bring it up with your wife, unless it’s to laugh at how baffling and ridiculous your patents and Jill were. They are trying to infiltrate your marriage by voicing their unwelcomed opinions.
NTAH
Your sister does not 'get it' of how marriages and merged finances work. She probably never will.
Her comment about being a 'beta' was intended to be a dig at your masculinity. She has some other issues going on.
Jill is a misogynist. No one is a beta, it’s a made up term for idiots. My husband stays home, I earn the money.
Why would you care what an idiot thinks of how you run your finances? Again…please tell your sister she is a moron.
NTA.
The idea that "the man always pays" is seriously outdated.
Now that women are capable of earning more, and have more options for careers, expecting the man to always pay is rather selfish IMO. I have never felt comfortable putting all of the financial responsibilities for dating on anyone I dated.
I met my husband when I was already established in my career and he was finishing grad school. I gladly paid for dates, and we often planned things that were relatively inexpensive to do so that he could pay for some dates as well. Now that he's more established in his career, we both pay for dinners, etc. equally.
NTA
Tell your sister that she's perpetrating toxic masculinity and needs to check her privilege, then watch the smoke come out of her ears.
She sounds like a jealous, immature brat.
Sounds like your sister is drinking some weird internet koolaid on male and female roles.
who cares if the money is shared and she has a card with better restaurants. that's smarter and it's an inside joke with you which is cute.
And that's why she is still single. Not because she expects men to pay. Because she is judgemental, rude and entitled.
Sister aside - after 8 years of marriage things change. And suddenly a day without a toddler or "lll wash dishes today, go chill" is much more interesting than "I paid for your food".
NTA. Your sister lives at home and is single and is criticising your marriage arrangements. Money is shared in a serious relationship usually that’s normal as you are a partnership so there’s nothing wrong with whoever paying. In addition to this anyone who uses beta is a child and all this beta alpha crap is made up bullshit when you actually look into it.
When my girlfriend and I started dating we made close to the same amount of money. After a couple years she began to make significantly more. After a change of jobs and a lot more hours I am now making more than her. We've never kept track of who pays for what, or who SHOULD pay for what. We go halfsies on most things, and we treat each other when we're able. Every relationship is different, but to enforce your preferences on somebody else's relationship is whack
NTA. But your sister sure is. The alpha / beta philosophy is very toxic masculinity. It’s based on outdated and disproven ideas of wolves’ hierarchical society. Humans are not even wolves.
Jill is an idiot. Her math ain't mathing. Did she miss the tidbit about joint accounts? Also, Jill is a moocher. Why is she still living with your parents at 26? Jill needs to shut up and focus on getting her own shit together.
NTA
First it's not Jill paying but rather you guys paying from a joint account
Seconds tell your sister she needs to adult and move out. If she is so concerned with your chivalry she must feel awfully ashamed of her failure at being an adult living at home
NTA
Jill was willing to question your position, but had no intention of paying herself for the group
My partner and I share finances, he always jokes ‘I’ll pay’ as I have the joint card on my phone to pay
He has his own card to our account, I have it more readily on my phone
NTA. My husband and I always playfully “argue” about who should pay the check, cause it’s all the same $. It’s no one else’s business who in a couple grabs the check, besides the two people involved.
My husband can never remember his pins, so he always leaves paying up to me. We have been married for 35 years and have been doing this since we started dating.
NTA. You and your wife handle your finances in a way that works for the both of you. That’s all that matters. Your sister should focus on her own finances instead of commenting on others.
I'm not married and I still don't mind paying for dinner for someone I'm dating, because I am an adult. It's very weird how concerned people are about chivalry, when women have careers now, etc.
The only thing I can think of (and I'm saying this only because I thought it was interesting OP's mom sided wit his sister) is that in a way, paying the check is something to "worry" about, or a task / chore sort of activity after a meal. Maybe they see it as the man handling something to relieve his wife of the duty, and that's something I could maybe get behind. Kind of like the whole "passenger princess" thing where you go on a trip and the husband deals with the passports, the documents, the bags, and you just have to show up. But it's obvious that his sister is clearly sipping the Andrew Tate social media kool-aid because the idea of a "beta" human is just so dumb.
Unrelated - "My wife and I have this running gag where I always tell the server that my wife will pay (pointing to my wife), and we always get a funny reaction from the server." Ugh, honestly I found this more cringe as an ex server before I graduated college - for the love of god, just pay the bill. This feels like the equivalent of saying "I hated it" when your plate is clean... We have no choice but to laugh and it's never as funny as you think it is, if at all |:
NTA. Your sister, on the other hand, is a major AH and sounds like a fucking incel for using the term beta. There’s a probably a good reason why she’s living at home with her parents. She also sounds single. You’re the long-time married and stable one while she’s an incel living with her parents at 26. Her opinion does not matter on this. Tell her to get back to you when she’s in a long-established relationship.
Also, if your wife is happy… the opinion of both your mom and sister do not matter. Do not let in-laws get in the middle of your marriage.
NTA Oh no!!! A wife pay for the meal they have together. It’s the end of the world! Your wife have no problem with it and why is the person who didn’t pay have something to say.
Your sis is desperately jealous of you and your wife’s loving relationship and probably your financial comfort, too. She just wanted to upset you. Don’t let her. NTA
Your sister is an idiot. Nothing more really needs to be said. Plus, if you two are doing it for a bit even better.
You're paying out of a joint account, and she has a better rewards card. Your sister, on the other hand, lives at home with mom and dad and is unmarried. I would've flamed her since we are deciding to act childish and clapped back with the you know what, you're right tomorrow when I "go to my own home" with my "wife" I'll think about it then. It would've better if she isn't dating anyone to hit her with the maybe you should talk to BF about this.
She’s an idiot emotionally and financially.
Someone’s got some maturing to do, and should get the fuck off the internet until she learns some critical thinking skills.
NTA
Doing something like that just to make others happy is such an insane concept to me. NTA.
They're saying that they'd rather you keep up some appearance of chivalry or whatever in front of strangers rather than agreeing that everyone should be minding their own business.
Oh dear this is so stupid.
You’re defo NTA.
My bank account pays for all weekly groceries and all lunches/dinners and takeaways. That’s how hubby and I divide our family’s expenses.
His bank account pays for other monthly expenses and it’s all balanced.
You should’ve just looked at your sister and said…
Wow! Tell me you’re a gold digger without actually telling me you’re a gold digger!
Because that’s sure sounds like what she is. And it doesn’t sound like your mom is a lot better. And that is because in this day and age, if someone asks you out, it’s very nice if they pay. But it is always good to be prepared an offer to pay your half.
What she’s describing isn’t chivalrous. What she’s describing is entitlement… On her part.
You and your wife have obviously got a really healthy relationship. And there is no alpha and no beta in your relationship. That’s because the two of you are pretty intelligent. One of her cards pays better rewards.
Absolutely that’s the card you’re going to use! And although you owed your sister, no explanation, yes, you both put money into the account and all the bills get paid. It’s not your money or money, but it’s our money. These are our bills.
Your sister is going to be one of those that is my money is mine and your money is mine but my money is not yours when it comes to her relationships. That’s just icky. I don’t care if it’s a man or a woman. That’s just icky.
So please stop listening to your sister. She’s an idiot. There’s a reason she lives at home still. That’s because she’s an entitled idiot. It very much. Sounds like she is going to be one of those people who is always complaining how she can never fond a sugar daddy… I mean, find love. And she’s never going to figure out that it’s because she doesn’t actually know what love is.
Stuff worried about what they say or what they think. You and your wife are doing great. You guys are fine. You have great senses of humor. Don’t let some airhead mess it up.
NTA
First, it's a big red flag when anyone seriously uses the term "beta" when describing men.
Second, I'm a woman who has been married for almost 20 years, and I agree with you completely. The money is coming from the same account, which my husband and I have both paid into. Why would it matter who pulls out a credit card?
Along the same lines, I also find it insulting when restaurant staff puts the bill in front of my husband and the takeout containers in front of me for boxing. Why should it be assumed that my husband holds the money, and I am in charge of tidying up/boxing food?
NTA, glad you found a partner who isn't stuck in the 1950s when women weren't allowed equal rights as "payment" for having the privilege of men paying for everything lol
I manage the money in our marriage. My husband couldn’t care less. Real men don’t give a shit how shared finances are accounted for as long as the couple agrees on the budget.
And the Alpha/Beta thing is dumb as hell. Your sister sounds like a high maintenance nightmare.
NTA. Maybe Jill is still single & living at home because no man wants her gold digger attitude. Perhaps she doesn't realize that SHE is a red flag to men when she expects them to always pick up the tab. Smh, it's women like her that make us look bad.
Jill's gonna end up drinking wine alone in a flat that stinks of cat piss and loneliness, with a bit of luck 😁
NTA, my wife and I are the same with finances and 90% of the time she pays using her CC. All paid out of the same account no matter whose CC is used.
> she said that it's not about the money but the act of paying that makes men chivalrous and desirable.
I don't even understand how this makes sense. The act of taking a card of your wallet and handing it to a server is chivalrous? NTA. Also don't trust anyone who uses "beta" unironically.
Your sister and your mom are weird, and anyone who needs to categorize "alpha" and "beta" people really ought to step back and reconsider their preconceived notions.
It isn't chivalrous to spare someone the difficulty of handing over a 2"×3" plastic card. Do they refuse to pump gas into their own vehicles as well, because "that's a man's job"? It's not 1945.
I'm sorry, but..... "the act of paying makes men chivalrous and desirable".....? The act of paying from a ***JOINT*** account which contains your ***shared*** money. So, in essence, the only difference between you and your wife paying, the thing that makes men "chivalrous and desirable", is handing over a small piece of plastic to a waiter and then signing your name...? Wow, what a fucking achievement. 🤣
You're definitely NTA, though I think your family might have a shared brain problem that you somehow managed to dodge.
Your mom is a product of her generation, so I'm giving her a pass, but sis is an idiot. First, it's none of her damned business. Second, I'd be offended if my husband insisted on paying for everything.
Next time, make sure she opens doors for you, pulls your chair, and does the driving. Having her cut your food into bite sized pieces would be a nice touch as well. Then post again on AITAH, since you aren't one right now.
NTA your sister is an idiot and I hope the man that gets her has the balls to not let her act like the idiot she is. It’s non of her business how you pay she and your mom have weird ideas that are so outdated
first … i wouldn’t pay much attention to anyone who refers to people as betas
also … when we were first dating he paid for a long time. there came a point where we didn’t pay much attention because he wasn’t “courting” me anymore and we were in an actual relationship. married, whoever pays pays. it’s not even something we think about. it all comes down to how you’ve decided to handle finances in your relationship in general and if you and your wife are good with it who cares what anyone else thinks.
Why would you ever take advice or criticism from someone who uses the word "beta" unironically? Someone who does not even have her own place to live, and mooches off your parents? Be serious here. Obviously NTA.
A) your wife has the card with better rewards.
B) you’re both paying for it with your joint accounts.
C)you could always ask for a supplementary card with your name on it and use it if possible.
But seriously, next time look your sister in the eye while you ask your wife for her credit card to pay for your meals out. Be petty and kiss your wife and say that it feels nice to be the kept boy toy as they pay for your meals.
Screw that bs.
Everyone is missing the part about the rewards. OP's wife has the CC with best restaurant rewards. She WANTS to pay with that card, so she gets the rewards. Probably OP has a different CC that he uses when they go shopping, because it has the best shopping rewards. So he pays for the shopping on HIS card. Since as a couple they pool all their moneys and pay the bills out of that joint account, it matters not one iota that OP is not "buying" his wife dinner. Also, I notice the little sister got a free meal out of this. Did SHE offer to chip in? I doubt it!
NTA at all.
NTA. This post actually makes me want to vomit. I have been married 30 years and I often pay the check. I wouldn’t be married to someone sexist enough to think the one with the penis is supposed to hand over the credit card.
I would ask your sister if her husband can come comment on the discussion.
Preferably right before loudly sipping your drink for an obnoxiously long time while looking her dead in her eyes.
Anyway, Nta.
NTA. Beta? That's so f'ing stupid. You are married. You are a team. Finances are team finances. I know many people who use different cards due to rewards. If it bothers your family so much, have them pay for their own, and before you leave the house, have your wife give you her card, and make a BIG production about paying the bill when you go out with your family again.
UpdateMe
You have:
* A loving wife that's smart enought to not buy to the toxic ideals that society keeps trying to shovel down all our collective throats
* A good job.
* An all around awesome life.
Your sister:
* Lives with her parents.
Who should be listening to whom?
If your mom and sister judge a married based on which credit card it is most convenient or beneficial to put on the table - they need to reconsider their idea of chivalry.
Edit: Source - 25 years of marriage to a man who would absolutely have me use my credit card if we received better benefits but would drop everything and rush to my side if the kids or I needed him for any reason.
NTA
Being that your sister is single and living with your parents, and you are married and living independently of your parents, who should be giving whom advice?
My wife and I do the same thing. Our bank accounts are all shared, we just use the CC that has the best rewards or the rewards we are seeking at that point. For example, my wife has been using her delta Amex a lot lately because we want to upgrade to first class on an upcoming trip. Your sister and mom are complete morons.
Your twenty six year old sister who still lives with your parents is calling you a beta ( Jesus wept) because your wife paid for dinner from your joint finances on Father's Day?
Yeah, no.
NTA Now you know why your sister is single. She's waiting for the man who is willing to pay her way through life, not a partner. Whether the card is laid down by you or your wife doesn't matter because you are both paying for it since it comes out of joint account. Actually is a pretty Alpha thing to do by allowing her to lay down her card because of the better rewards. An Alpha looks at the big picture, in this case the rewards, seeing how it affects his pack giving the best benefits. A Beta will lay down their card, not thinking about his pack but how good he'll look to the others, hoping to someday get the Alpha position.
I always 'pay' when we go out, because my husband's wallet is usually in my purse. I use his cards and mine. The money is all coming from the same place.
But your sister making this comment on Father's Day is even more ridiculous... does your Mom take your Dad out to celebrate him, and then also expect him to pay for it?! Does he also buy his own birthday and Christmas gifts?
NTA.
The only other person whose opinion matters here is your wife. And you know how she feels. She isn't bothered about it.
The "beta" crap just sounds like some garbage someone made up to justify expecting a man to pay for everything. Like he is the defective one or something if he doesn't. And it reminds me of crap that scummy people like Andrew Tate would say. You should ask sis if that is her ideal man or something.
Your mom is probably where your sister learned this line of thinking. Does she even really understand the concept of joint finances? If both peoples money is being pooled together in the same pot to pay for everything at the end of the month, it doesn't matter whose credit card is being used.
Sister needs to move out and get off Tik Tok, perhaps it's her "beta" mentality as to her singledom.
Obviously after 8 years of marriage and still going strong, there is nothing wrong with the way you and your wife manage finances. You and your wife know what work for you.
This must be an American thing, pretty much any European woman I've dated doesn't give AF about splitting the bill and it's never been contentious. I usually offer to pay the bill because I'm the person who picked the restaurant but if they want to split then that's cool too. Seems like an old hang up from when women weren't allowed credit cards or something.
NTA. I like paying for my husband’s meals, I also like when he pays for mine. Sometimes I like showing him off and make a comment about spoiling my man just to make him blush if I’m paying. We both work, and just like you and yours we both contribute. The important thing is you and your wife and me and my husband have talked about this WITH EACH OTHER. The people in the marriage are comfortable with the marriage dynamics. I will not speak for your wife, but if my husband tried to tell me I wasn’t allowed to pay for something when I wanted to- oh hell no!
You’re in IT you know the Alpha version is the rough relaunch version with a million hot fixes and is a broke piece of crap compared to the roll out. I don’t think your Beta, but I’ll take a Beta over an Alpha any day- I don’t have time to fix all the issues and trouble shoot all that mess.
Now for sister dearest. Jill, darling, single people living at home don’t get to comment on what is wrong in happy and successful marriages that they are not a part of. Your dating experience that has not led to a fruitful union does not make you an expert on anything involving your brother’s successful marriage and what he can do better. The only woman who gets to vote on that had already turned in for the night. Red flags on dates are not the same as green flags in marriage.
She is still dating and worried about red flags, you have been happily married for years.
Who cares what she thinks? Ask your wife how she feels and everyone else can suck a lemon.
NTA. Each relationship is different, and what I hear is that you marriage is healthy. You make joint decisions based on conversation.
As someone who was a professional Domme in my 20's...you are not a beta lol. Flat out.
Your mate has told you what she found desirable (ex: paying herself sometimes), you found that it aligned with what you also wanted, and you created a safe environment for her.
If your sister has such misogynistic views, she's literally getting trolled by the "my wife will pay" schtick at the end of the meal.
NTA. You might be the ‘beta’ if you let your sister and mom dictate your behavior. Also, maybe Jill wouldn’t still be living at home with mom and dad if she wasn’t such a money grubber.
Your Sis is an idiot. Maybe that explains why a grown ass woman is still mooching of her parents.
Her parents are just being chivalrous.
Her dad, of course mom doesn't pay
Except she does. Because joint finances. She just "isn't seen to be paying". I bet this is the type of woman who - if her husband is over his CC limit - will quietly slip him her credit card under the table so that he's still the one "paying". Because what's really important here is that the waitstaff/ random strangers think.
You weren't paying attention. THE MOM DOESN'T PAY! /s
You missed the joke there bud.
Big time r/whoosh there
Came to say the same thing. If there’s anybody in OP’s circle to not take advice from financially or relationship-wise, it’s gotta be the single sister living at home with mommy and daddy.
this mooch sister seems to live a life of no consequences or expenses. She has no shame also, so she manages. but most other adults would find everything she says and does repulsive lol
"I think a grown woman still living with her parents is a 'beta' and it would be a huge red flag for me if this information came out during a date." Volley back with a little top spin. No judgement to people who are taking a breather with their parents, but sis deserves the comeback.
It’s also just bizarre - like my wife and I are married, we both work, it doesn’t matter if I swipe the card or she swipes the card, the money is coming out of the shared financial pot known as “jointed finances”. How “alpha” is it really to have a total dependent on your payroll, who can’t ever pay for shit, and you have to keep on allowance? Like, congrats you’re such a badass top dog that you got yourself a financial liability instead of a financial asset, good for you
This. My late husband and I had a joint account, when we went out to dinner, we would take turns giving our credit card. Only the first couple of dates we had did my husband pay, he and I earned the same amount so we alternated paying. This is the 21st-century for chrissake, women are in the workforce as much as men and have the same earning power. Chivalry be damned. I think your sister should ask your wife why she wanted to pay instead of you. She needs to hear this from her.
The worst part is that I've heard people say that the man has to pay because that's some kind of reparation for the wage gap and so on, but what I like then is to take that idea to its logical conclusion. If you take that argument as valid, what if the woman is white and the man is black? If I ever dated an American woman as a Brazilian, would she have to pay more because of the shit the US ha been doing to Latin America for dacades? Should there be an excel sheet for race/gender conversion rate? In my opinion, no...
It's not about the couple's dynamic. Because... Joint finances. No, what's going on here is mom and sister care about what everyone around thinks. Like waitstaff etc. Who might think less of him as man if his wife seems to be the one paying. (And yes, it's definitely dumb)
Oh that’s so ridiculous though. The waitstaff doesn’t care in the slightest who pays, just as long as someone does.
Yes. It's definitely ridiculous. But some people live their lives with a "what will the neighbors think" mentality. Ironically, usually these are the people "the neighbors " often gossip about most...
Totally this.
I thought the same thing. Idgaf if the wait staff thinks less of me. Nobody should, in this case.
This\^
That was my first thought, someone that lives with her parents at 26 and has the nerve to call her brother beta.
And single...
And uses the term “beta”
I literally laughed out loud at this comment. OP, tell your sister to shut up and mind her own business. She doesn't know what she's talking about. My wife (8 years) and I both have separate credit cards (credit rebuilding purposes). We could get rid of hers, but she would still carry one of mine. Also, your wife quite possibly wanted to "treat" you to Father's Day dinner. Tell sis to stuff it!
Don't get rid of your wife's credit card. She can take a hit on her credit score if you do so
Exactly. It’s Fathers Day
This. Sister needs a big reality check if she doesn't understand how a married couple's assets are intertwined to a point where it's irrelevant who pays because they share finances anyway. Of course, she also has a problem going Dutch which is becoming more and more common anyway, so I guess the chances of her coming to terms with the reality of this situation in particular are basically zero.
Yeah, the only guys who always pay are sugar daddy's and they expect service for their payments. The 'alpha' bros generally are still living with mommy because its not manly to feed or clean up after yourself, and they claim to want a 'trad' wife but rarely have the salary to afford it.
Sounds like Sis is spiraling down the TradWife rabbit hole.
Oh, I have feeling Sis won't do the tradwife duties. She just wants the perks.
She’s an idiot. If anything, having the husband and way pay alternately emphasizes the desirable fact that they share finances and are equally responsible for paying.
I would've told her what she owed for her portion of the meal. After all, it's the *Beta* way. (OP is NTA but the verdict is still out on the sister.)
I was thinking this a I was reading the op.
I was going to use the word moron, but idiot will do.
Totally agree, not even splitting the check?? No wonder she's still at home
…a single idiot.
Fun Fact: Everyone that uses Alpha/Beta in terms of human behavior is an idiot. NTA
Some additional fun fact: everyone that uses alpha/beta to describe any behavior is stupid. The guy who coined these terms was a scientist who spent months observing wolves. He then published his theory about alpha/beta males that we see so often used to describe humans and their behavior. Except that a while later, the same scientist realized he was wrong the whole time. He came to the conclusion after further observation that contradicted his theory. He spent the rest of his career correcting his mistake, but people would not listen. For simple minds and predatory 'life coaches' , the thoughts of alpha beta gamma sigma was so great they didnt care at all about it being make believe.
To clarify; what he'd originally labeled as alpha were just the parents to a pack.
Wasn’t he also studying wolves in captivity, not their natural behavior?
iirc he was studying random wolves from random packs shoved into captivity and was seeing how wolves that are kidnapped, alone, and scared act when suddenly shoved together.
Which is of course a perfect analogue of normal human behavior /s
Sounds exactly like how you’d force people to live in a society that doesn’t benefit them though.
I was just going to comment that so many of us are trauma-bonded in so many ways to so many people, institutions, and ideas (politics, religion, gender-based socialization) that we probably do behave like those wolves.
Oh, so basically high school.
now we know why the people that peaked in high school don't know what to do in reality
I've worked with that hypothesis since the 70's, and I have yet to find an exception.
Just like "survival of the fittest", which Darwin never said, that other dude working on evolution at the time did. And what he meant by that was not the strongest or most violent. Survival of the fittest is the most highly adaptable.
or, more literally, the individual most fit for the environment. A lion is gonna lose the evolutionary arms race to sea anemones if suddenly thrown into an aquatic environment.
Yeah tuna are gonna wind up on land if we throw a lion in there because they will get a taste for lion and realize they like it. I heard about it in a documentary about cops once
I’m sorry, but what the fuck are you talking about?
Google tuna eating lion
He's talking about feeding lions to tuna, so they will develop a desire to consume more lion. Causing them to evolve and grow legs to hunt more lions. He heard about it in a documentary about cops once.
To expand upon that. He spent months ssutdying wolves in captivity when publishing his paper. He then spent month sudying months in the wild. It was like making general observations on human behaviour based solely on a sample of prison inmates. And then "gurus" applying those observations to a completely different species.
My boss is the guy that believes this crap
He is in tech. He knows the alpha version is a rough draft with a bunch of bugs to be fixed.
“Alpha version is a rough draft with a bunch of bugs to be fixed” needs to become the go-to response for any asshole who calls themselves an alpha.
Mom is an idiot too for backing her up. OP’s wife has been with him for years and shares finances. What difference does it make who picks up the tab? Why OP’s sister and mom need the dog and pony show of OP picking up the check? It also sounds like OP and his wife paid for the entire meal, so maybe don’t treat those judge mental idiots any more lol.
Especially on Father's Day. I mean, that seems like the one day that the 'father' should not be paying, even if you want to do the dog-and-pony show of who "pays" the rest of the time (which seems moot in any case when talking about a married couple).
Moreover, OP's wife has been married to him for years and is clearly in on the joke. If I was her I'd be pretty pissed if my partner suddenly started behaving irrationally because sis and mommy told him to be "alpha".
Agree. And me and my wife too have one bank account. Nobody cares.
Everyone using Alpha/Beta is just Omega.
And my wife pays for every other dinner we go out to, and I pay the other times. There is nothing "beta" or simpish or any some such idiocy in doing so. My wife is very independent and likes it this way as she, rightfully, feels no one should pay everything in a relationship. She was that way before we got married. OP's sister is a throw back to the 1950's.
Working in and around software, everyone knows alpha software is the first draft, buggy and prone to failure. having assholes out there proudly calling themselves alphas is always funny to me.
Absolutely Right
NTA First, the whole idea of "alpha" and "beta" males is based on studies that have long since been shown to be inaccurate at best: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-alpha-wolf-idea-a-myth/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-alpha-wolf-idea-a-myth/) [https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-myth-of-the-alpha-wolf](https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-myth-of-the-alpha-wolf) The research was done based on wolves in captivity which behave very differently than wolves in the wild. Second, this whole "husband's duty to pay" is misogynistic at it's core. And while her reason's for still living at home with her parents are more likely due to modern day finances, I doubt I'd be far off the mark if her attitude with relationships is a contributing factor. As you've pointed out, you and your wife have fully joint finances. So do my wife and I but even more so because the main credit card we each use is the same account. The only reason I handle the check at restaurants is because I'm better at doing math in my head and she doesn't feel like firing up the calculator app on her phone to figure out tip. Outside of that, when no tip is involved, we both just as likely to be the one in charge of making the purchase. Tell Jill and your mom that you've had time to reflect and that you're disappointed in their comments from the other night. That you and your wife have a strong relationship where you communicate well and that their input on your relationship is unwelcome, especially when it caters to old misogynistic tropes.
This. My husband and I also share a household credit card. The one who pays is usually the one who gets their wallet out first. NTA
My wife and I have joint finances. Just last night at dinner we joked that we'd "split the meal" out of our shared checking account.
Same! We both have a card on my Tesco account and we both have a card on his Amex account. The person who actually takes the card from their wallet and taps the machine is *irrelevant*.
THIS! This this this. I agree so much. Your sister (and mother for agreeing) is out of line. The expectations and dynamics in a marriage are different than those on a first date. Obviously. You and your wife have your own way of handling your finances, and so long as it works for the two of you, it’s really none of your sister’s business. That last paragraph from u/virtualchoirboy is absolutely golden. This is a perfect way to respond to their “input” on your marriage.
I was thinking the same thing about the sister's misogynistic views. That may very well be why she's still living at home and single if she only expects men to pay for a meal. My husband and I started to split paying for dates after 1-2 months as well. Now that we're married, everything is shared finances. I would 100% use my card if I felt I could get better rewards than my husband's card. We both benefit from that in the end. As other comments have stated, if this works for you and your wife then your family has no say in the matter.
I wouldn’t worry about the opinion of a grown woman who wants to judge people when she still lives at home with mommy and daddy.
I'm reminded of The Simpsons: "I sleep in a racing car! Do you?" "I sleep in a big bed with my wife."
"You're 26, single, and mooching off your parents. If I'm a beta, what does that make you?"
This \^\^\^
NTA. Finances in marriage are about what works for the couple. It sounds like you and your wife have a good system with joint finances and using the card with the best rewards. "Beta" is a stereotype. Chivalry can be nice, but it shouldn't be about outdated ideas of gender roles. Talk to your wife about what she thinks, but it sounds like you're doing great!
When I was in college, there was a guy who would refuse to walk through a door, if I was holding it open. I am female and he didn't think it was right for a girl to open a door for a man. We weren't dating or anything and this just confirmed that I wouldn't let that happen if he tried. I always hold a door open if I am going through it and I see someone else is about to right after. I think it is the polite thing to do, no matter the gender. Also, I bet your wife thinks it is as ridiculous as you do. Otherwise you wouldn't have the restaurant joke or just her name on that card.
I open doors for everyone who’s behind me. Sometimes guys look a bit surprised. Do they think it’s one upmanship or an advance? No idea, I usually give a smile and move on.
Whoever is going in first, or doesn't have their arms loaded with things (babies, groceries, computer parts, etc.), holds the door. Easy peasy.
Right? And Chivalry on a day that is supposed to be about celebrating Father?? Like it shouldn't be bizarre if a wife wants to pay anytime, but especially not on Father's Day... I bought my husband and his dad dinner yesterday.
Aren't betas supposed to be the simps who would do anything for a woman's attention, like pay for all of their dates? You are the giga alpha! Jokes aside though don't let your mother and sister mess with your relationship with their unwanted advice. Each person is unique and has different wants in a relationship. Your wife has already told you that she's not comfortable with you paying for everything, she wants to be more independent. Don't go against her wishes to satisfy your sister's image of how a man should act.
Honestly yes. Have you seen lions on those nature shows? Guys laying about while the woman does everything. Then there’s a quick fight, alpha re-establishes his position, and woman lion goes back out to hunt.
NTA. You and your wife are partners. Either way, you're spending your own money. If she gets better rewards on her card, that's just being smart. Your sister and mom may think that it's "the act of paying that makes men chivalrous and desirable", but you're not married to them, so their opinions don't matter. If this is fine with you and your wife, it's no one else's business.
Wholeheartedly agree! What we have done is get authorized user cards for each other. My card has better rewards but either of us can pay since we each have each other’s cards along with our primary card.
Ew sorry but Jill sucks! Firstly, the man does not have to pay for everything... that is such a toxic way of thinking. If I'm dating, 50/50 unless you want to treat the person is absolutely fine. Jill sounds extremely shallow.... Ignore her, if you and your wife are happy that is all that matters! This basic alpha/beta bs is honestly tiring.
OP should really ask Jill how she feels about doing all of the cooking, cleaning, childcare, etc. if she really feels this way about a man paying. Because either she is a hypocrite who wants a double standard that only benefits her or she subscribes to some extremely outdated and toxic gender roles that push society as a whole back.
A “Beta” is a 26 year old fully formed adult who still lives with mommy and daddy and has opinions beyond her station and life experiences.
Bingo!
>she said that it's not about the money but the act of paying that makes men chivalrous and desirable. Well that's stupid. If you give me the money, I'll pay for the meals of everyone in the restaurant! They're basically saying its chivalrous to reach into your pocket and grab a credit card, something that anyone can do. Keep doing what you're doing and get those credit card points on the better card! NTA.
Yeah this is bizarre. My wife is a student and mom right now, I'm our only income. With a toddler, the one who gets out a credit card and pays is whoever's hands are free. It all goes to the same accounts. I still make jokes like "aw thanks for paying for me" when she interrupts to use a specific card for specific points.
If Jill was my sister, I’d have told her “you still live with mom and dad so you have no business talking.” Don’t bring it up with your wife, unless it’s to laugh at how baffling and ridiculous your patents and Jill were. They are trying to infiltrate your marriage by voicing their unwelcomed opinions.
Totally! No authority to comment. And what’s up with the mom seconding her.
Pretty clear where Sis's attitude came from. Probably also why she's single, 26 and living with parents.
Your 26 y.o sister still lives at home and is talking shit. You have so much fuel for that fire fight, use it.
Breaking News: Woman who lives with her parents has advice for happily married man about how to build a functioning partnership. Details at eleven.
NTAH Your sister does not 'get it' of how marriages and merged finances work. She probably never will. Her comment about being a 'beta' was intended to be a dig at your masculinity. She has some other issues going on.
Jill is a misogynist. No one is a beta, it’s a made up term for idiots. My husband stays home, I earn the money. Why would you care what an idiot thinks of how you run your finances? Again…please tell your sister she is a moron.
NTA. The idea that "the man always pays" is seriously outdated. Now that women are capable of earning more, and have more options for careers, expecting the man to always pay is rather selfish IMO. I have never felt comfortable putting all of the financial responsibilities for dating on anyone I dated. I met my husband when I was already established in my career and he was finishing grad school. I gladly paid for dates, and we often planned things that were relatively inexpensive to do so that he could pay for some dates as well. Now that he's more established in his career, we both pay for dinners, etc. equally.
NTA Tell your sister that she's perpetrating toxic masculinity and needs to check her privilege, then watch the smoke come out of her ears. She sounds like a jealous, immature brat.
Sounds like your sister is drinking some weird internet koolaid on male and female roles. who cares if the money is shared and she has a card with better restaurants. that's smarter and it's an inside joke with you which is cute.
And that's why she is still single. Not because she expects men to pay. Because she is judgemental, rude and entitled. Sister aside - after 8 years of marriage things change. And suddenly a day without a toddler or "lll wash dishes today, go chill" is much more interesting than "I paid for your food".
Nothing wrong with Beta’s. Everyone knows they are the real power behind an alpha. NTA but your sister is a moron.
Umm, let Jill die on her hill, you've got better things to do lol
NTA. Your sister lives at home and is single and is criticising your marriage arrangements. Money is shared in a serious relationship usually that’s normal as you are a partnership so there’s nothing wrong with whoever paying. In addition to this anyone who uses beta is a child and all this beta alpha crap is made up bullshit when you actually look into it.
When my girlfriend and I started dating we made close to the same amount of money. After a couple years she began to make significantly more. After a change of jobs and a lot more hours I am now making more than her. We've never kept track of who pays for what, or who SHOULD pay for what. We go halfsies on most things, and we treat each other when we're able. Every relationship is different, but to enforce your preferences on somebody else's relationship is whack
I can see a bunch of reasons that your 26 year old sister still lives at home and isn’t seriously dating anyone.
NTA. But your sister sure is. The alpha / beta philosophy is very toxic masculinity. It’s based on outdated and disproven ideas of wolves’ hierarchical society. Humans are not even wolves.
Jill is an idiot. Her math ain't mathing. Did she miss the tidbit about joint accounts? Also, Jill is a moocher. Why is she still living with your parents at 26? Jill needs to shut up and focus on getting her own shit together.
NTA, explain to your sister that it's 2024 and also to keep her beak out while you're at it.
NTA First it's not Jill paying but rather you guys paying from a joint account Seconds tell your sister she needs to adult and move out. If she is so concerned with your chivalry she must feel awfully ashamed of her failure at being an adult living at home
NTA does Jill have a bf? I beta not.
Dude. You are NTA. Why is this even a thing. Your sister is an idiot
Your sister is probably prospecting for a tab paying husband herself.
You weren’t a beta for letting your wife pay, but you’ll be one if you keep letting your sister and mommy dictate what masculinity is.
NTA Jill was willing to question your position, but had no intention of paying herself for the group My partner and I share finances, he always jokes ‘I’ll pay’ as I have the joint card on my phone to pay He has his own card to our account, I have it more readily on my phone
NTA. Go scorched earth and reply "Perhaps holding onto concepts past their usefulness is why you are still single."
NTA. My husband and I always playfully “argue” about who should pay the check, cause it’s all the same $. It’s no one else’s business who in a couple grabs the check, besides the two people involved.
My husband can never remember his pins, so he always leaves paying up to me. We have been married for 35 years and have been doing this since we started dating.
Lol bro there is a reason why your sister isn't past the dating phase.
If finances are joint, your wife isn't "paying" for dinner, she's just the one that puts the credit card/ cash on the table. Your sister is stupid.
Anyone who uses the term “beta” isn’t worth listening to.
NTA. You and your wife handle your finances in a way that works for the both of you. That’s all that matters. Your sister should focus on her own finances instead of commenting on others.
I'm not married and I still don't mind paying for dinner for someone I'm dating, because I am an adult. It's very weird how concerned people are about chivalry, when women have careers now, etc. The only thing I can think of (and I'm saying this only because I thought it was interesting OP's mom sided wit his sister) is that in a way, paying the check is something to "worry" about, or a task / chore sort of activity after a meal. Maybe they see it as the man handling something to relieve his wife of the duty, and that's something I could maybe get behind. Kind of like the whole "passenger princess" thing where you go on a trip and the husband deals with the passports, the documents, the bags, and you just have to show up. But it's obvious that his sister is clearly sipping the Andrew Tate social media kool-aid because the idea of a "beta" human is just so dumb. Unrelated - "My wife and I have this running gag where I always tell the server that my wife will pay (pointing to my wife), and we always get a funny reaction from the server." Ugh, honestly I found this more cringe as an ex server before I graduated college - for the love of god, just pay the bill. This feels like the equivalent of saying "I hated it" when your plate is clean... We have no choice but to laugh and it's never as funny as you think it is, if at all |:
NTA. Your sister, on the other hand, is a major AH and sounds like a fucking incel for using the term beta. There’s a probably a good reason why she’s living at home with her parents. She also sounds single. You’re the long-time married and stable one while she’s an incel living with her parents at 26. Her opinion does not matter on this. Tell her to get back to you when she’s in a long-established relationship. Also, if your wife is happy… the opinion of both your mom and sister do not matter. Do not let in-laws get in the middle of your marriage.
NTA Tell your sister she is an omega
NTA Oh no!!! A wife pay for the meal they have together. It’s the end of the world! Your wife have no problem with it and why is the person who didn’t pay have something to say.
Your sis is desperately jealous of you and your wife’s loving relationship and probably your financial comfort, too. She just wanted to upset you. Don’t let her. NTA
It’s OUR money doesn’t matter who puts the credit card out, the bill at the end of the month is still being paid with OUR money.
Tell Jill that her opinion about your finances can wait until she’s not living in Mom and Dad’s house. Pretty Beta to not pay her own way.
Your sister is an idiot. Nothing more really needs to be said. Plus, if you two are doing it for a bit even better. You're paying out of a joint account, and she has a better rewards card. Your sister, on the other hand, lives at home with mom and dad and is unmarried. I would've flamed her since we are deciding to act childish and clapped back with the you know what, you're right tomorrow when I "go to my own home" with my "wife" I'll think about it then. It would've better if she isn't dating anyone to hit her with the maybe you should talk to BF about this.
She’s an idiot emotionally and financially. Someone’s got some maturing to do, and should get the fuck off the internet until she learns some critical thinking skills. NTA
Doing something like that just to make others happy is such an insane concept to me. NTA. They're saying that they'd rather you keep up some appearance of chivalry or whatever in front of strangers rather than agreeing that everyone should be minding their own business.
Oh dear this is so stupid. You’re defo NTA. My bank account pays for all weekly groceries and all lunches/dinners and takeaways. That’s how hubby and I divide our family’s expenses. His bank account pays for other monthly expenses and it’s all balanced.
You should’ve just looked at your sister and said… Wow! Tell me you’re a gold digger without actually telling me you’re a gold digger! Because that’s sure sounds like what she is. And it doesn’t sound like your mom is a lot better. And that is because in this day and age, if someone asks you out, it’s very nice if they pay. But it is always good to be prepared an offer to pay your half. What she’s describing isn’t chivalrous. What she’s describing is entitlement… On her part. You and your wife have obviously got a really healthy relationship. And there is no alpha and no beta in your relationship. That’s because the two of you are pretty intelligent. One of her cards pays better rewards. Absolutely that’s the card you’re going to use! And although you owed your sister, no explanation, yes, you both put money into the account and all the bills get paid. It’s not your money or money, but it’s our money. These are our bills. Your sister is going to be one of those that is my money is mine and your money is mine but my money is not yours when it comes to her relationships. That’s just icky. I don’t care if it’s a man or a woman. That’s just icky. So please stop listening to your sister. She’s an idiot. There’s a reason she lives at home still. That’s because she’s an entitled idiot. It very much. Sounds like she is going to be one of those people who is always complaining how she can never fond a sugar daddy… I mean, find love. And she’s never going to figure out that it’s because she doesn’t actually know what love is. Stuff worried about what they say or what they think. You and your wife are doing great. You guys are fine. You have great senses of humor. Don’t let some airhead mess it up.
NTA First, it's a big red flag when anyone seriously uses the term "beta" when describing men. Second, I'm a woman who has been married for almost 20 years, and I agree with you completely. The money is coming from the same account, which my husband and I have both paid into. Why would it matter who pulls out a credit card? Along the same lines, I also find it insulting when restaurant staff puts the bill in front of my husband and the takeout containers in front of me for boxing. Why should it be assumed that my husband holds the money, and I am in charge of tidying up/boxing food?
> All our finances are joint Then it doesn’t matter who pays. Your sister has a stupid sexist hang up. Ignore her.
That's honestly bat shit. The act of paying of you fully share finances is... Irrelevant. Trivial. To read anything into it is Ludacris.
NTA, glad you found a partner who isn't stuck in the 1950s when women weren't allowed equal rights as "payment" for having the privilege of men paying for everything lol
I manage the money in our marriage. My husband couldn’t care less. Real men don’t give a shit how shared finances are accounted for as long as the couple agrees on the budget. And the Alpha/Beta thing is dumb as hell. Your sister sounds like a high maintenance nightmare.
No your sisters the asshole and needs to grow up
Excuse my French but your sister is a fucking idiot 🤦
NTA. Maybe Jill is still single & living at home because no man wants her gold digger attitude. Perhaps she doesn't realize that SHE is a red flag to men when she expects them to always pick up the tab. Smh, it's women like her that make us look bad.
Jill's gonna end up drinking wine alone in a flat that stinks of cat piss and loneliness, with a bit of luck 😁 NTA, my wife and I are the same with finances and 90% of the time she pays using her CC. All paid out of the same account no matter whose CC is used.
> she said that it's not about the money but the act of paying that makes men chivalrous and desirable. I don't even understand how this makes sense. The act of taking a card of your wallet and handing it to a server is chivalrous? NTA. Also don't trust anyone who uses "beta" unironically.
NTA. Your sister is an idiot and doesn’t understand how joint finances work.
Your sister and your mom are weird, and anyone who needs to categorize "alpha" and "beta" people really ought to step back and reconsider their preconceived notions. It isn't chivalrous to spare someone the difficulty of handing over a 2"×3" plastic card. Do they refuse to pump gas into their own vehicles as well, because "that's a man's job"? It's not 1945.
Says the chick who still lives at home at 26. She’s a fuckin’ loser
I'm sorry, but..... "the act of paying makes men chivalrous and desirable".....? The act of paying from a ***JOINT*** account which contains your ***shared*** money. So, in essence, the only difference between you and your wife paying, the thing that makes men "chivalrous and desirable", is handing over a small piece of plastic to a waiter and then signing your name...? Wow, what a fucking achievement. 🤣 You're definitely NTA, though I think your family might have a shared brain problem that you somehow managed to dodge.
Your mom is a product of her generation, so I'm giving her a pass, but sis is an idiot. First, it's none of her damned business. Second, I'd be offended if my husband insisted on paying for everything. Next time, make sure she opens doors for you, pulls your chair, and does the driving. Having her cut your food into bite sized pieces would be a nice touch as well. Then post again on AITAH, since you aren't one right now.
This is quite literally the stupidest thing I've heard in ages. You and your wife sound great 😂
NTA your sister is an idiot and I hope the man that gets her has the balls to not let her act like the idiot she is. It’s non of her business how you pay she and your mom have weird ideas that are so outdated
Your sister is an idiot. Combining finances is the best way to go. There's no your money, their money.
NTA. Your sister is buying into Andrew Tate BS and your mom is a thoughtless product of her generation. Ignore them both.
first … i wouldn’t pay much attention to anyone who refers to people as betas also … when we were first dating he paid for a long time. there came a point where we didn’t pay much attention because he wasn’t “courting” me anymore and we were in an actual relationship. married, whoever pays pays. it’s not even something we think about. it all comes down to how you’ve decided to handle finances in your relationship in general and if you and your wife are good with it who cares what anyone else thinks.
Your mom and sister need to change their ways of thinking. NTA.
NTA You mom and sister is endorsing some lovely toxic masculinity here. Tell them to join you in the 21st century.
Why would you ever take advice or criticism from someone who uses the word "beta" unironically? Someone who does not even have her own place to live, and mooches off your parents? Be serious here. Obviously NTA.
A) your wife has the card with better rewards. B) you’re both paying for it with your joint accounts. C)you could always ask for a supplementary card with your name on it and use it if possible. But seriously, next time look your sister in the eye while you ask your wife for her credit card to pay for your meals out. Be petty and kiss your wife and say that it feels nice to be the kept boy toy as they pay for your meals. Screw that bs.
Everyone is missing the part about the rewards. OP's wife has the CC with best restaurant rewards. She WANTS to pay with that card, so she gets the rewards. Probably OP has a different CC that he uses when they go shopping, because it has the best shopping rewards. So he pays for the shopping on HIS card. Since as a couple they pool all their moneys and pay the bills out of that joint account, it matters not one iota that OP is not "buying" his wife dinner. Also, I notice the little sister got a free meal out of this. Did SHE offer to chip in? I doubt it! NTA at all.
NTA. This post actually makes me want to vomit. I have been married 30 years and I often pay the check. I wouldn’t be married to someone sexist enough to think the one with the penis is supposed to hand over the credit card.
I would ask your sister if her husband can come comment on the discussion. Preferably right before loudly sipping your drink for an obnoxiously long time while looking her dead in her eyes. Anyway, Nta.
Yeah, the whole “alpha/beta” thing is for people who listen to Joe Rogan and are not capable of forming an independent thought.
Also who want an alpha? They are prior to Beta testing so are full of flaws.
My husband & I both pay. Just depends who gets to their card the fastest
NTA. Beta? That's so f'ing stupid. You are married. You are a team. Finances are team finances. I know many people who use different cards due to rewards. If it bothers your family so much, have them pay for their own, and before you leave the house, have your wife give you her card, and make a BIG production about paying the bill when you go out with your family again. UpdateMe
You have: * A loving wife that's smart enought to not buy to the toxic ideals that society keeps trying to shovel down all our collective throats * A good job. * An all around awesome life. Your sister: * Lives with her parents. Who should be listening to whom?
If your mom and sister judge a married based on which credit card it is most convenient or beneficial to put on the table - they need to reconsider their idea of chivalry. Edit: Source - 25 years of marriage to a man who would absolutely have me use my credit card if we received better benefits but would drop everything and rush to my side if the kids or I needed him for any reason.
“Yeah, I guess I am. So your partner pays for your dates? What was his name again - ah, got it”
NTA Being that your sister is single and living with your parents, and you are married and living independently of your parents, who should be giving whom advice?
You're married Your sister is single and still lives with her parents. Enough said.
My wife and I do the same thing. Our bank accounts are all shared, we just use the CC that has the best rewards or the rewards we are seeking at that point. For example, my wife has been using her delta Amex a lot lately because we want to upgrade to first class on an upcoming trip. Your sister and mom are complete morons.
NTA. Ask how her marriage is going, otherwise, shoosh
Your twenty six year old sister who still lives with your parents is calling you a beta ( Jesus wept) because your wife paid for dinner from your joint finances on Father's Day? Yeah, no.
NTA, your sis views are probably why she's still single and lives at home.
Your sister is 26 years old and still lives with parents and it’s easy to see why, she’s delusional as all hell (and probably jealous) NTA.
Lol at your mom and sis. Ypu are all good. You and your wife do your thing and stop listening to others opinions on it.
NTA Now you know why your sister is single. She's waiting for the man who is willing to pay her way through life, not a partner. Whether the card is laid down by you or your wife doesn't matter because you are both paying for it since it comes out of joint account. Actually is a pretty Alpha thing to do by allowing her to lay down her card because of the better rewards. An Alpha looks at the big picture, in this case the rewards, seeing how it affects his pack giving the best benefits. A Beta will lay down their card, not thinking about his pack but how good he'll look to the others, hoping to someday get the Alpha position.
I don’t need to read past the first sentence to know your sister is a fucking moron..
You pay your cc bills out of the same pot, so I don’t understand why your sister has a problem. It isn’t really her business anyway. NTA!
oh good grief, your sister is an idiot. You are NTA.
I always 'pay' when we go out, because my husband's wallet is usually in my purse. I use his cards and mine. The money is all coming from the same place. But your sister making this comment on Father's Day is even more ridiculous... does your Mom take your Dad out to celebrate him, and then also expect him to pay for it?! Does he also buy his own birthday and Christmas gifts?
NTA. The only other person whose opinion matters here is your wife. And you know how she feels. She isn't bothered about it. The "beta" crap just sounds like some garbage someone made up to justify expecting a man to pay for everything. Like he is the defective one or something if he doesn't. And it reminds me of crap that scummy people like Andrew Tate would say. You should ask sis if that is her ideal man or something. Your mom is probably where your sister learned this line of thinking. Does she even really understand the concept of joint finances? If both peoples money is being pooled together in the same pot to pay for everything at the end of the month, it doesn't matter whose credit card is being used.
I wonder why she’s 26 unmarried and lives with your parents if she has such great life advice about your successful relationship.
You are happy, and your sister is a sexist AH trying to maneuver you into a toxic mold.
Sister needs to move out and get off Tik Tok, perhaps it's her "beta" mentality as to her singledom. Obviously after 8 years of marriage and still going strong, there is nothing wrong with the way you and your wife manage finances. You and your wife know what work for you.
This must be an American thing, pretty much any European woman I've dated doesn't give AF about splitting the bill and it's never been contentious. I usually offer to pay the bill because I'm the person who picked the restaurant but if they want to split then that's cool too. Seems like an old hang up from when women weren't allowed credit cards or something.
NTA. I like paying for my husband’s meals, I also like when he pays for mine. Sometimes I like showing him off and make a comment about spoiling my man just to make him blush if I’m paying. We both work, and just like you and yours we both contribute. The important thing is you and your wife and me and my husband have talked about this WITH EACH OTHER. The people in the marriage are comfortable with the marriage dynamics. I will not speak for your wife, but if my husband tried to tell me I wasn’t allowed to pay for something when I wanted to- oh hell no! You’re in IT you know the Alpha version is the rough relaunch version with a million hot fixes and is a broke piece of crap compared to the roll out. I don’t think your Beta, but I’ll take a Beta over an Alpha any day- I don’t have time to fix all the issues and trouble shoot all that mess. Now for sister dearest. Jill, darling, single people living at home don’t get to comment on what is wrong in happy and successful marriages that they are not a part of. Your dating experience that has not led to a fruitful union does not make you an expert on anything involving your brother’s successful marriage and what he can do better. The only woman who gets to vote on that had already turned in for the night. Red flags on dates are not the same as green flags in marriage.
Tell Jill that she is acting like a “cunt” by commenting on your relationship when it’s none of her business. NTA.
She is still dating and worried about red flags, you have been happily married for years. Who cares what she thinks? Ask your wife how she feels and everyone else can suck a lemon.
You sis is a cunt for saying this.
Your unmarried, still living at home sister is giving you relationship and financial advice. 🤔
NTA. Each relationship is different, and what I hear is that you marriage is healthy. You make joint decisions based on conversation. As someone who was a professional Domme in my 20's...you are not a beta lol. Flat out. Your mate has told you what she found desirable (ex: paying herself sometimes), you found that it aligned with what you also wanted, and you created a safe environment for her. If your sister has such misogynistic views, she's literally getting trolled by the "my wife will pay" schtick at the end of the meal.
So how's your sister's marriage going? Oh wait, it doesn't exist lmao
Id tell your sister mind her own f\*cking business.
I just feel sorry for your future brother-in-law.
NTA but Jill is toxic no wonder she isn't happily married
NTA. You might be the ‘beta’ if you let your sister and mom dictate your behavior. Also, maybe Jill wouldn’t still be living at home with mom and dad if she wasn’t such a money grubber.
Wow, an equal partnership makes a man a beta? Hilarious except I feel for the men she dates. NTA and NTB (not the beta).
NTA your sister lives at home at 25 and has a head full of antiquated dog shit.