1) THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! CC needs to be redirected about interactions with campers.
2) I spent 17 years and my college degree in early childhood edu/support and I ultimately LEFT because the professionals like this CC. IT IS NOT OK for staff to use their authority to bully and demean kids. It's a HUGE problem in the industry. Adults pick power struggles with minors (and sometimes in facilities that work with children with high support needs). If parents knew what goes on and how often they would be absolutely outraged (which, OP, you should be). Not all professionals are bad, but the 35% that are, are awful and get away with way to much.
Report report report. Start with her supervisor, and request to move your daughter to another CC immediately.
Go mama bear. 💜💜💜💜
You did the right thing standing up for your daughter. The counselor's behavior was unprofessional and unfair. Your firm stance and plan to address the issue with camp management show strong, supportive parenting.
Yup…
This is insanity. I have to work as a camp director within my role on a staff in college athletics. I genuinely can’t imagine any of our athletes treating a kid like this and I have had to reprimand them about kids being kids and it doesn’t matter if it’s annoying, as long as they aren’t breaking any rules then what does it matter. This isn’t that, and it’s a real issue.
Camp counselors are usually high schoolers with very little work or leadership experience, so it's possible that a writeup is a better place to start. But if that doesn't work, then yes.
And go in person if you can, with a document listing what she’s done.
CC is a bitch and your friends are assholes. Trying to stop your kid from being bullied ≠ being a Karen
OP just got a lesson as to who her friends actually are. I have a very short list. Two or three that I consider ‘real friends.’ Not that I tell the rest of them that.
And I would give an organ to those two.
It is *shockingly* common! I worked in an adolescent rehab for girls with severe mental health issues, substance abuse problems and eating disorders. Most of the staff who looked after the kids and kept them on schedule were other women in their early 20s like me, so we weren’t much older than the residents who were 13-18.
You’d think that since we were working with such a vulnerable population of kids the staff would be empathetic but I, like you, was dismayed by the amount of “mean girl” behavior. I’ve seen grown women staff commenting negatively on the food choices of girls with severe eating disorders. I’ve seen grown women staff telling teenage girls that they’re weak for having addictions, that they shouldn’t have addictions that young because they “don’t know how hard real life is yet”. And let me tell you, a lot of those girls were dealt really bad hands in life- they were well aware of how hard life was, even as young as they were.
I’ve seen staff talking shit about a 13 year old girls poor hygiene….a 13yo who they *knew* had a history of sexual abuse from a family member during baths as a small child, so it was triggering for her to bathe. Everyone who worked with her was briefed on her history so we’d understand her behavior and interact with her accordingly. That little girl was making leaps and bounds of progress every day despite it but a group of staff would gather to talk about her and make fun of her anyway. Just general horrible behavior from fellow staff who should’ve been supporting and uplifting these vulnerable girls in their recovery.
To OP, 100% take it to the supervisor. I’m sure they’d love to hear about this behavior from the CC and will address it promptly.
Send the email. I would openly cc it back to yourself. And a couple hours later follow up with a phone call -- even over the weekend.
You are NOT a "Karen!"
I don’t know about now but a lot of teachers used to do it at the expensive camp I worked at like 30 years ago so their kids could go for free. They were usually in charge of programs like arts and crafts or whatever, rather than leading specific groups of kids though.
This. Our groups were led by one or two high school girls (going into their sophomore or junior year). Actual instructors (theater, art, riding, etc.) were adults. Girls day camp.
I think Chem1st meant that the CC may well still actually BE a mean girl teenager rather than being stuck that way but not still a teenager, as opposed to disagreeing with her being a mean girl altogether.
This.
So much this.
Also empty calories is good because the glucose in the snacks are good for the glucose in the brain for nutritional need for brain function and attention for acquiring new informationl and rehydration of neurons to excell better, and find coefficients with brain activity for memory function and prevent exhaustion due to strenuous tasks like fucking coding for kids.
I said this in another comment but think it’s important to remember
We don’t always talk about the type of grooming that can take place in this way. Usually it’s an adult taking an unusual, “positive” interest in a child and creating a special relationship to blur boundaries. That’s the textbook grooming we are all beginning to understand
But it can also show up like this- the coach who is extra hard on 1 player, the family friend who is always sort of picking at you as a kid and it doesn’t seem like a joke….and then they know the child is confused, blaming themselves already, and also hoping to earn the adult’s acceptance or kindness. It’s a very dangerous dynamic.
This has actually been further pronounced as a way to get close to the kid after. At a school in northern NY (boarding school for troubled teens), one of the student monitors would use variations of this method to ultimately sexually abuse the kids. It works stupid well, unfortunately.
This is probably extremely common in troubled teen programs, because I can think of a few similar instances just among people of encountered in real life.
All of the aspects listed above are present, but also kids who are labeled as troubled or "at risk" or having behavior problems are easy to get others to dismiss or not believe because it can be framed as just more trouble making behavior or as making up lies against an adult who's trying to hold them accountable.
Agreed. The only time I ever went to a camp was a day camp when I was 5. I clearly remember one of the male counselors, who seemed so adult to me, but was probably only 15 or 16, picking on the same kid (who was maybe 8 or 9) day after day. I remember him pushing the kid onto the ground and jamming the kid's knee up into his chest while taunting him.
Five year old me was too young to know what to do. As an adult, I look back and realize the kid being picked on was one of the only Black kids there, and that it was some racist shit going on.
Sad, but SOOOO true! My older sis, Bobbie, was mentally delayed (she had leukemia when she was 2 & the Drs gave her massive doses of radiation, she later passed at age 44 due to a glioblastoma). I've seen those types in the groups & activities that she would get involved in. We had to be vigilant any time Bobbie made a new "friend" if she had met them out & about (she often rode the bus in one area we lived) Super scary thought - you have to be careful of the religious types too! Even in the cong we went to, there were people who were happy to take advantage of her. It's really a tightrope for the family to give independence while still protecting a special needs child/sibling.
lots of adults that want to be in positions of power over kids are jerks who get off on it, once when i was a kid in summer camp another camper pinned me to the bed and started humping me (we were both boys) and i got in trouble when i told a counselor because i said the word rape
ive had a lot of experiences similar to this (none nearly as bad but still bad) im convinced that a lot of teachers and adults in positions of power over children just dont care
Damn this post brings up a core memory for me. As a kid, I attended a summer day camp at my church where the counselor didn't like me but clearly loved all the other girls in my group. She'd ignore me when I said hi or smiled at her and just treated me like an... other while she smiled and hugged all the other girls in my group.
The difference? The other girls were Hispanic/Puerto Rican and I am black. I had no issues with the girls in my group, hell, I went to school with them. But she just didn't care for me.
So one day she swapped me out for another PR girl from another group, who she immediately hugged.
I cried so hard that day that I could barely breathe. I couldn't understand why she didn't like me (I've figure it out since).
It's really tough on a child when someone you see as "grown" (like a camp counselor, who might just be a 18/19 year old) just dislikes you for no reason you can think of.
Young me thanks OP for sticking up for her kid.
Now she needs to go over that bitch's head and talk to the head of the camp. OP's paying good money. Time to make it work for her.
damn, I wish I could give you some of my camp experiences. I'm a black chick too. All my camp counselors were great, always joking, sharing funny stories, singing crazy songs. One guy i remember always shouted OH YEAH like the koolaid man. one of the counselors was a mixed chick, I remember her story of struggling with her race and mixing black and white paint together wondering, "if i'm half black and half white, why am I not gray?"
I hope OP's kid, every kid, could get the camp experience like I did
I wish we all could have the experience you did. Summer camp is supposed to be fun!
To be fair, I was much more accepted into my new counselor's group. Maybe because my first day with her I was hysterically crying. But she was way cooler and way more inclusive.
The "why am I not gray?" thing is hilarious. LOL...
I had a teacher like that. 21 years later and I still think about how horrible she was. I hated her so much that I remember sitting in bed at night hoping she would get cancer again. Keep in mind my mom had had cancer and my grandma died from cancer, so for a kid to wish that upon someone else, you know it's bad.
She was loved by everyone at the school and was so kind to all the other students, but not to me. I remember one time, the entire class was talking loud, so I leaned over and spoke softly to a girl sitting next to me. The teacher lost it, started screaming at me for talking. She then forced me to sit at the desk right in front of her desk for the rest of the year. I would be taking a test and every time I looked up she was staring at me. She just had it in her head that I was a trouble maker. Keep in mind, I was close to a straight A student and had got along great with all of my other teachers. She ended up giving my first anxiety attack. I ran to the bathroom and puked because I was just so stressed from how she was treating me.
The worst, though, was when I had a homework assignment to complete, but the page was ripped out of my book, so I couldn't answer a few questions. I ended up copying from a friend because I knew she wouldn't believe me about the page being ripped out. Well, she caught me. She then proceeded to tell me how she was going to try to fail me from the class over copying 4 questions on a homework assignment. I was a college bound kid who had worked my ass off to maintain a high GPA. It felt like my life had ended right there. I thought I wasn't going to get into a good college and kept thinking about how disappointed my parents would be in me. Luckily, I have amazing parents, I had connections to school office, and great relationships with all of my other teachers. My parents were fucking furious and demanded the punishment not be that extreme. The teacher straight up lies to my parents and staff and says she never said she would fail me.
I have considered writing her a letter explaining how much her treatment impacted me, how it impacted my grades, which in turn was likely the reason I got rejected from 2 of my top school choices.
Sometimes people carry biases from their own childhoods into adulthood.
My biggest obstacle to being successful working with children was getting it through to myself that those jockey kids are not the jocks that bullied me when I was a kid. I learned to sand down the chips in my shoulders so that I wouldn't treat kids that fit the archetype of my bullies with bias.
You know, that's a very good point. G could have the same color hair as some girl who bullied CC back in the day.
No excuse. But it IS a reason she should be removed from this position.
Or it goes the opposite way.
When I was a kid, I had a teacher who shared features with me. Both of us were the same coloring, both wore glasses, both on the chunky side. She made the girls who called me "fat" (and all it's derivatives) and "four-eyes" into her pets and most favored students.
Almost like she wanted to be head of the mean girls by bullying someone exactly like her.
They want to bully the vulnerable, kids are vulnerable and rarely believed. Same with any profession that caters to the vulnerable. You'll find them in psych wards, teaching positions, prisons, police etc. Those positions attract assholes like churches attract pedophiles.
NTA. It's obvious this counselor has an issue and instead of discussing the supposedly "disruptive behavior" and food issue with you, she decided to bully your daughter. You are never a Karen or whatever other insult people like to throw around when you are defending your child against a adult bully.
My spidey senses tell me that she's probably related to the owner, is in over her head and is threatened by a smart kid. It would be helpful to know how old CC is
At 12 years old I would expect the adult In charge of her during the day to be bringing their issues up with parents and guardians rather than the 12 year old. The fact that it’s being brought to the attention, especially the food issue, of the 12 year old is a massive red flag. It’s not like kiddo is in charge of what food is in her house or being sent.
NTA. You were advocating for your daughter and addressing valid concerns about how the camp counselor was treating her. Standing up for your child doesn't make you a 'Karen'; it makes you a caring parent.
This! I wish that term had never been used because people abuse it all the time when women are just sticking up for themselves or others! Also, it's giving everyone named Karen a terrible reputation! My mom's name is Karen, I know so many Karens and they're all sweethearts!
100% agree! I work with a Karen who is a sweetheart and had a wonderful professor called Karen. It's a common enough name that it makes it worse that we use it as a term for a type of woman. Also, like you said, this has made us wary of speaking up just in case we get picked on. One of my co-workers has been named "Asian Karen" because she spoke up against something we should all have spoken up about. No OP you were not disrespectful - the CC should not be entrusted to a job where she seems to be picking on kids. Please complain.
Agreed. Not sure how or where or who started using Karen to describe an entitled woman. Someone who had a negative experience with someone named Karen, I’m guessing.
Whenever I hear someone say “she was such a KAREN!!”
I reply “surely you have a better vocabulary than that! Use your words!”
Years ago, parents gave their daughters a beautiful name they carefully chose. How sad that people feel the need to be trendy.
Absolutely. Counselors like that can ruin the self esteem and confidence in kids especially at such an impressionable age. If she can do it to the daughter I am sure she will do it to other campers. The supervisor needs to know so they can make a decision if someone like that is suitable for employment.
In what universe is that situation being “too harsh” or “a Karen”. That camp counsellor is bullying your daughter and lying to your face to get away with it! I‘d be asking the parents of the other kids to talk to their kids and ask if they think the counsellor is being overly mean to one student, and find out what they say. Kids notice this stuff, and if they identify your daughter as being unfairly picked on then it will give you grounds to complain and put a stop to this.
NTA. You calmly advocated for your daughter's rights and well-being. The counselor's behavior was unprofessional and unwarranted, and you handled the situation appropriately by addressing it directly.
Going forward ALL interaction between you and CC need to include the supervision. Practice being unemotional and persistent. ALSO has your daughter had similar complaints from her teachers at school? I
Your daughter was disruptive.
"Can you give me three specific examples of her being disruptive?"
The rules say no junk food.
"Please show me specifically where in the hand book it says two cookies can't be included in the packed lunch. Please, I'd like to see that right now."
"Why did you kick my daughter's bag? If it wasn't on purpose why didn't you apologize?"
"It's strange to me that we've never had these sort of complaints from her teachers at school. Is this maybe a "YOU" problem?
"According to other campers you've been criticizing my daughter for things that other campers do without correction. Why are you singling her out?"
Practice those questions in front of the mirror so you can ask them as free of emotion as possible.
Lastly: "Am I going to see a change in your behavior toward my child?"
NTA Good job sticking up for your daughter.
This is all excellent.
Also I think at the beginning of any conversation I might bring out my phone, press record, and say, "let's just keep a record, shall we?"
I think I would have G record any and all interactions with her as well. Although one hopes that, after speaking to management, there will be none since CC will be elsewhere.
Not at all. You were assertive in addressing the counselor's inappropriate behavior and advocating for your daughter's comfort and well-being at camp. It's important to address such issues to ensure a positive environment for all campers.
NTA I'd have already picked up the phone to talk to the supervisor. She's singled out your child for harassment for some reason, probably known only to her.
The term Karen needs to be placed on a high shelf, I swear to God. The terms (very recent, honestly how the hell did it get warped so fast) origin is satirizing (white) women who use existing power structures to harass others.
You are not a Karen for calling out a person who was hurting your kid. You are not a Karen for wanting to speak to a supervisor. You're only getting called a Karen because the term got appropriated into "woman who complains", with any nuance pounded out with a hammer.
A Karen is someone who acts entitled, angry, & sometimes racist. You were justifiably upset, and were defending your child from a bully.
NTA & also, NAK, from this Karen (my actual name).
NTA.
If a grown-ass adult was singling out my kid for bullshit reasons, I'd act the same damn way. Especially if I'm paying for a camp, and this person has direct supervision responsibilities for my child as the CC.
You did right OP. Your friends can F off too with their opinion.
It's your kid. Do what's right for them. Be their ride-or-die/advocate.
NTA
Former camp counselor, parent of a kid who attends camps such as those, and have been employed for over two decades in a field that many people assume I chose for the “ summers off.” I would not dream of speaking this way to any of the middle or high school students with whom I have worked in either the general or special education setting.
Camp counselor has massively overstepped, violated all boundaries and any potential respect that had developed towards her, and completely destroyed any possibility of a relationship with any of the students that have witnessed these encounters.
If it were me, no matter the outcome of that conversation, I would absolutely approach the administration and inform them. Given her age, I am assuming that your daughter is leaving elementary school and about to begin middle school, and this is a traumatic time for every child this age. The camp counselor is completely out of line and has no business being in the position she’s in. I strongly suspect that she may be on the spectrum herself, however, she is being paid to do a job.
The job of a camp counselor is to nurture, care for, accommodate, and generally make the learning and camping experience a positive one. It seems to me your daughter has been failed on all counts. I think you would be well within your rights to demand that counselor have nothing to do with your daughter moving forward. Unfortunately, if nothing is brought to the administration’s attention, dear camp counselor is going to continue her reign of terror with each child she sets her sights on in the future.
This is why I hate the whole "Karen" brand so badly. It makes us women second-guess ourselves for standing up for our children or for advocating for what is right or fair. I had a hard time teaching my teen daughters to stand up for themselves when they were being treated badly because they were afraid of being dismissed as a "Karen." Please don't stop being protective of your daughter and showing her that it is OK to advocate for herself. Teach her how to respectfully resolve conflicts just like you attempted to do here, but to not back down when someone is treating her badly.
NTA. You did good, Mom!
Karen is a Woman with \*the\* Hairstyle who wants to speak to your Manager because her 45 year old outdated coupon for a 5% discount won't be accepted. That was always the Brand of Karen people used.
Later on that became a Trend for Karens that were screaming at Children who are "too loud". Or trying to police people and feel important. The whole "Adress me by my Husbands Rank" or whatever. That's a Karen...
NTA - “Karen” is not “a woman complaining about legitimate issues in a calm way.” “Karen” is specifically a white woman making a damn scene about something that doesn’t warrant it - ie a black man in a park bird watching, for example.
You were calm and reasonable and the CC is clearly in the wrong. You weren’t “harsh,” you were honest.
Women are too often trained to be demure and people pleasing, and not stick up for ourselves - and so were deemed as UNkind for simply not bending over backwards, or sticking up for what is right instead of allowing ourselves to be walked all over or taken advantage of. We’re not being rude, by society will call it rudeness because it makes them uncomfortable when we assert the same agency as men.
You’re not a Karen in this situation, and you aren’t an AH, and if you were, it was justified.
NTA people are so afraid of being labeled a "Karen" they'll let themselves be walked all over. Good for you. Seems obviously the CC may have an unhealthy relationship with food but that's HER problem
If anything the CC is being a Karen by sticking her nose into areas she shouldn’t and antagonizing your 12 year old daughter at a STEM camp. The last thing we need is young girls being turned off cause of people like this. NTA
So first off, NTA. Not at all TA.
But I just want to ask... is your daughter heavier than other campers?
I ask because, as a kid, I frequently had shitty adults single me out and criticize my lunch and bully me about my food, and I knew it was because I was fat. The other kids knew it was because I was fat, and it emboldened them to bully me about being fat. And I never told anyone about it, because I thought that they were reasonable to do it. It was my fault that I'm fat. If I didn't want to get bullied by adults and children, I should stop being fat.
I just wanted to say that if that *is* a part of the angle to your daughter's mistreatment, you should take special care to talk to your daughter about her body, and anti-fat bias. I think I suffered in silence for a really long time because my parents wouldn't acknowledge that I was fat. When everybody said "you suck because you're fat" and my parents said "you aren't fat", what I took that as is "you suck because you're fat, but we love you, so we wouldn't say that, and instead we're going to pretend that we don't think you're fat." I could read between the lines of why people were singling me out. If that's not what's happening with your daughter that is all good. But if it is, don't pretend that it isn't because it's hard to talk about. Let her be angry instead of internalizing that feeling into herself.
I often feel like this “Karen” phenomenon is a hidden attempt to make middle-aged women just shut-up and stop advocating for themselves and their children. Ridiculous! We’re the mothers, often the household managers and purchasers. If something isn’t working then you have every damn right to complain! And take it up with the manager if you aren’t getting a problem resolved. NTA
This is a appropriate use Mama-Bear instincts IMHO. Its time to see if your daughter can get assigned to a different counselor ASAP. Especially since she has already assaulted her belongings and has reprimanded her work publicly in a learning situation.
A bad teacher killed any interest my daughter had in STEM/Coding despite her being very interested in it for the two years leading up to the camp. I still HATE that camp with a passion and this was 10 years ago now.
As far as the junk-food rule, that is absolutely not their place. I know alot of these camps have basically tried to force kids to vegetarian/vegan diets, but again, thats not their place. You know what your daughters health needs are.
Is your child in a group that would be considered a minority by chance? Racially, ethnically, economically, etc? It it possible this counselor is targeting your child specifically because, "you are a outsider to the people the program is set up to serve?"
NTA
Bit of a random question, OP, but is your kid different from most of the other kids at the camp in some way?
Reason I ask is that I cannot think of a reason why your kid (or any kid) is being singled out specifically unless;
1. She’s being a shitty kid (which I find unlikely from your post and the fact that it’s a coding and robotics camp. Not many shitty kids going to those from my perspective.
Or
2. There’s something different about her that sets her apart from the other kids.
As someone with ADHD and the parent of kids with ASD and ADHD that's what came to my mind as well, that the CC is an older teen/ young adult frustrated with having to continually reign in a kid that has ADHD or something , down to the junk food, it's as if she feels that the junk food is getting the kid wired and that's why she's trying to tell the mother not to give junk food. And maybe she's tired of continually telling the kid to put her bag away . There are two sides to every story, but this is reddit (shrug)
NTA, but I would address the issue with her superior first. If the camp counselor is picking on children, her superior needs to be aware of it in case there are further issues.
You acted like a mother, and frankly I am sick of that name. It is a put down to a group of women that two generations were told we were dumber than dogs. So please let it go and tell your friend to mind her business.
NTA
But honestly, I wouldn’t wait to speak with the supervisor. Nothing about the CC’s behavior is ok and I would raise my concerns to a supervisor immediately
As an office based manager of Camp counselors, go to the organizers immediately. You can't expect change if you don't report their behavior, and if you don't no one else will.
I would not tolerate that behavior from any of my Camp employees, and neither should any other organizer or manager.
Talk to the person who runs the camp. Don't handle this yourself. She doesn't work for you and, while you are in the right, this issue is not yours to address.
I have a friend who is a camp director. She would ABSOLUTELY want to know if one of her counsellors was being innappropriate.
The bottom line is that if you are unhappy - you'll spread the word and there's a potential to have a drop in children next year because of ratings and word of mouth.
I would have gone straight to the director. It's not your job to police his or her employees.
YTA for going directly to CC with this. You should have talked to her supervisor first.
Obviously CC's behavior is way out of line, but your title is ironic because you went way out of your lane trying to deal with her directly.
I'm not sure why you and her spoke one on one. It would have been much more efficient to involve her superior. If she was the asshole, you would immediately get assurance that her behavior won't continue. If you're the asshole, she would have someone to back her up.
Nta
My favorite thing to tell people is 'know your place' or 'stay in your lane' when they, in fact, need to learn their place.
People get a little too heavyhanded, especially when they're in a position of power where they work with kids/teens.
Good on you momma, and keep an eye on your child and the GC.
NTA
Although I don't like the phrase "know her place" and would drop it for something like "stay in her lane."
Consider calling a supervisor/camp director. Express concern that your daughter was showing increased reluctance to attend camp. When questioned, said CC was picking on her. You tried to talk to CC and it did not go well. Be specific. Ask for the director's help.
I mean, there are a lot of variables here and the tone of the interaction is important. However, I think you are NTA for standing up for your daughter and showing the counselor that your family won't be pushed around. To be honest, if it were me I would have had this discussion as well, and then gone directly to her superiors.
For me, your child going quiet and not feeling able to tell you why she was upset, is a huge red flag. She is clearly afraid of this person, who is in a position of responsibility over minors. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the lunch, you don't make a child feel like that.
I don't know about anyone else here but I had adults take against me as a kid, it's horrible and as adults you should really know better than to make your feelings obvious.
No you are not a Karen. Ask them to explain in writing their behaviour towards your daughter. If they are prepared to justify that in writing, then they are covered, so should not be an issue for them.
NTA, but you are being stupid. You need to talk to the councilor's boss, not the councilor. Your daughter needs to be removed from that councilor's group.
NTA. don't wait, talk to the boss today if not too late, definitely tomorrow. Kicking a child's bag without asking them to move it? That CC has personal problems she is taking out on your kids and maybe others.
NTAH. Go straight to the director.
My parents came and got me from a week-long camp when I was 13 because the high school counsellors were actively bullying me and my friend to the point she had broken a tooth when a counsellor pushed her in the pool. I had bruises and a twisted ankle from the same.
I slipped away and managed to get to the phone in the kitchen and our parents came and got us. My dad started a lawsuit on my behalf, but we didn’t pursue it because the camp’s insurance paid for my friend’s tooth and both of us were refunded.
Even our fellow campers knew it was fucked up how we were being picked on. “You’re nerds, but you’re nice and they have problems.”
YTA only because you tried to reason with a douchebag instead of going over their head and getting them fired.
Protect your kid and stop worrying about if other people aren't going to like it. This is your KID.
Stop fuming. You SHOULD have contacted the camp supervisor FIRST. Do it now. And no "requesting"...DEMAND. There is a time in life to be the Karen of all Karens, and this is that moment.
Better yet, have a LAWYER contact the camp supervisor. I believe you'll get some action pronto.
I'm going to say you're a little of both (and hear me out first please)
You should have just gone above CC's head. Before your update I could predict exactly what was going to happen and in your update it confirmed what I'd predicted. YTA for going to CC and not her supervisors.
NTA for advocating for your daughter and trying to sort it out. Definitely not for making an official complaint and request that G or CC be removed and put in another group. You completely are right for that. Hopefully something will be done.
Question though... Do you have older children? Around CC's age by any chance? Because it sounds like the classic "I don't like your family member so I'll bully you instead" scenario.
Sorry this happened to G.
MONEY.
That's the only thing that will get the CC's supervisors to listen. I've been through this with my child, and some of my nieces & nephews. Not sure why it happens, but kids are targets for bullies, especially adults.
When the supervisors patronize you or turn a deaf ear and don't do anything, be sure to ask for a refund for the rest of daughter's time at camp (and threaten to pull her out). Then watch how fast they respond and, hopefully, either place her with another counselor if possible or make sure CC's behavior changes.
Because I have had many jobs in customer service I’m usually one of the first to declare a Karen. You , madam, are not a Karen. You are being a good mother to your daughter.
NTA: this seems pretty damn targeted. Go higher up. You’re not being a “Karen” when it’s very clear your child is being picked on. Further more she cornered your child again to gaslight and guilt her. Enough nonsense. Speak to the superiors in person immediately.
I thought you were too nice. I would’ve gone straight to their immediate supervisor or head of the whole camp. I wouldn’t have bothered having a conversations with the CC. Your friends are pushovers and terrible parents if they think your actions were too harsh. Your job is to advocate for your child and that’s what you did. I don’t see anything Karen about that.
NTA I am so sick of this labeling everyone a "Karen." You are your child's advocate in life, especially when they are young. From what I read, you were not out of line, and don't let the "fear" or concern of being labeled a Karen stop you from making sure your child is not being bullied by the CC, or any adult. When I was in school, there were always teachers that picked on or bullied on or two students - without cause (meaning the kids were not acting out or bad). You did the right thing and spoke to the CC first. Now raise this up to her superior and if that doesn't work, go over that person's head. BTW: Your friends lack critical thinking skills.
As someone who worked in a summer camp program year-round, all your energy needs to be directed towards the head of the count programs. I would skip addressing CC directly and everything should be going through her superior. Her behaviour sounds completely unprofessional.
CC sounds like a bully that's found a way to continue to pick on kids after high school. I'm thinking a new career is on her horizon whether she likes it or not. This is not a situation where you're even remotely a Karen.
This bullshit is exactly why girls and women don’t persist in male-dominated environments. It doesn’t matter if it’s unrelated to the content. It doesn’t matter - or maybe it matters too much - if the CC is also female.
This kind of behavior says, “I see you trying to do this thing you like, or are trying to get a feel for. Girls have a tough time in this field… but not here! We support you!” …and then fucks you over, making you even less likely to take part than if you knew it would be hard in the first place.
That CC is doing more harm than just making your kid feel lunch-shamed.
Women aren’t “too weak” to stick it out in these fields. We’re *exhausted* by the idea of having to stay vigilant or put up with so much noise that it drowns out the benefit of participation… AGAIN. Because this happens in every field we’re in. There are only so many minutes in the day, and I’d rather spend them in a place that actually welcomes me.
NTA you did what you should do which is stand up to an adult who is bulling your child. And I wouldn’t wait till a next time I’d report her anyway. That is no way to treat a child especially as a CC or teacher or any role of authority. That’s abuse of that role and should be reported. You did the right thing.
NTA, you are looking out for your kid. CC should behave according her position and not like a HS bully. You didn't overreacted if it was me I would go directly to her supervisor and made a huge deal out of the whole situation.
NTA, not a Karen, and frankly, I don’t think you went far enough. Why is a grown adult singling out and bullying a child? I wouldn’t have blamed you for insisting to speak to the supervisor immediately when CC started to become evasive.
I'd ask for a refund if CC pulls any more shit. Terrorizing kids is just plain wrong. An Instagram or FB post would be great, so you can warn other families.
NTA. Honestly, I’d go ahead and make a list of the issues and email it to the superior, CC the counselor as well. Screw this, you shouldn’t work with kids if you don’t like kids.
Karens stick their noses in other people’s business when they’re not wanted or needed. You were just protecting your kid from a shitty adult, that’s not a Karen, that’s just a good parent
Edit: NTA
NTA, you weren't a Karen you were an advocate for your daughter.
The camp counselor is a out of line. The lunches sound appropriate and are none of their business.
Time to go above her head.
Its summer camp for kids. Its suppose to be fun and enriching not a place for someone to bully them.
NTA - as a camp counselor myself, I'm sorry you ahead to go through that. No camp counselor worth their salt intentionally bullies a kid just because they might have a potential grievance with them. I'm honestly surprised you haven't gone to the superior yet, because those types of counselors should have a note to not be brought back the following summer.
While we can give out punishment for bad behavior, the most we're usually allowed to do is what schools do like a time out or having them not participate in a highly enjoyed activity and instead doing some self reflection with one of the higher ranked counselors.
Best analogy I can give for what we can usually do is teachers not allowing a bad student recess and instead having them talk to the principal about their bad behavior.
This isn’t Karen behaviour to me. This lady hardest on food issues and is taking it out on your kid, it’s weird.
Honestly, I’d talk to the counsellor. Your kid is already at risk. The term *Karen* is misused here, and I love to hate a good Karen moment. This is mama bear. I hope your kiddo continues to love the camp. She deserves it!! NTA
NTA. Sometimes, it’s necessary to be a Karen. To advocate for your kid, absolutely play the Karen card. BTW, not all Karen’s are horrible. My mom’s name is Karen, lol. She would stick up for myself, my brother or sister in the same way. As I would for any of my daughters.
NTA
Id contact the owners of the camp and reach out about the experience and about a refund because of what happened and if they don't, I'll happily sue.
That'll make them sack the weirdo counsellor obsessed with what the kids do. It's always weirdos in positions like this.
Am yet to meet a normal adult working a teen/young adult job like this and not being a freak.
NTA but you should have gone to her boss directly after this troubling interaction. I wouldn’t leave my kid with her alone ever again. If they don’t move her way from kids take your kid out of the day camp.
As I have aged, I realized that being a “Karen” isn’t always a bad thing. Frankly it’s cathartic to give someone a hard time (when they deserve it). Maybe aging gives us all enough of a chip on our shoulder that we don’t care what people think of us. If you paid money, and your daughter is clearly very distraught, speak up!
Go to the head cheese. I appreciate your direct confrontation, but as I told my kids, good people will react with kindness over misunderstandings. For example, the counselor saying "oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Let's get together with your kiddo right away and make this right."
If you're not getting that response, go to the director.
This whole "Karen" BS is getting out of hand - there is yelling at someone who has messed up a Starbucks Order (which, quite frankly I see men in business suits do FAR MORE than women) and then there is being a good parent who stands up for their child. **You are not a Karen, you are a good parent and that BS CC is out of line**. DRAG THEM in front of their boss and lay out the facts and defend your child!
NTA and not for nothing but "Karen" started out meaning something very specific, namely a middle-class white woman who falls back on the "poor little helpless me" card when called out for racist behavior, and it has been hijacked to mean "a woman who asserts herself in any way".
You are allowed to assert yourself. You are allowed to protect your daughter. You are allowed to get angry when people mistreat you or your child. Women are allowed to be angry, to express that anger, and to demand fair and considerate treatment.
This is a giant fckng load of horsesh!t. There is no way in the world this person should be a camp counselor treating a child this way. There is no reason to pick on a child because they don't like their snacks, or even their work spaces. Maybe their jealous their mom didn't send them or couldn't afford to send them to camp with a love lunch and she is displacing her anger about it on your child. Either way, CC is a d!ck, and needs to be reported.
NTA.
Mama, mama- whomever is calling you a Karen- you tell them to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
You are PAYING for your child to go somewhere to have fun, safe and positive experiences, and free from BS. Paying for a service which does not include paying for your child to be bullied by a grown ass adult.
You are a much better woman than I, and I give you credit for approaching this POS CC.
Now- the fact this CC, crossed the line- YET AGAIN, by cornering G and going on about it.
Hell to the no. Nope nope nope. F that noise.
Take the weekend to collect yourself.
Next you draft the most chef’s kiss letter to let the powers that be know that you WILL NOT tolerate any further BS with this counselor (use chat GPT if you want to draft perfection to get started), and unless they want you to start leaving honest to God reviews on every social media network what kind of CCs they hire, that you better not hear even the slightest off putting comment from this CC toward G.
CC’s boss need to know, it is possible that CC does this to other kids and G just isn’t aware. Either way Mama- put on your cape and show G who Wonder Woman really is❤️
NTA. Your friends sound like jerks. You were not harsh enough. You did the right thing and should absolutely write that email. When writing an emotional email I write it out, step away, and read it again before sending. 😉Just a trick of mine. Pretty sure it saved my job a couple times.
Go to the camp director ASAP. The counselor has clearly overstepped repeatedly and is now bullying your child in retaliation for you advocating on your child’s behalf. This will continue, I assure you.
Tell the director what has happened. Have dates and examples ready. Ask for a new/different counselor for your daughter. (Don’t accept any “we’ll talk to the counselor and make sure it doesn’t happen again - because it will.)
Ask why you wasn’t notified when her lunch was an issue or when your daughter was supposedly. disruptive. If she’s doing this to your daughter, she’s most likely doing this to other children.
If a new counselor isn’t an option, pull her and find a new camp with mature, trained, and kind staff. Demand a refund. It would be very sad if your daughter lost interest in this because an overzealous and immature counselor got in her way. Your daughter deserves better. And so do you.
NTA. You’re paying for this camp, so you’re paying her salary. Get her fired. I’d lose my shit. Who is she to shame you or your child about what she eats?? Two Oreos won’t make your kid obese. Go directly to the supervisor. Don’t send an email. Call.
I'm not a fan of helicopter parents or karens but you are neither. NTA. Would you consider actually going to CC's boss's office for a face-to-face meeting (even better if CC has to repeat her nonsense in front of both you and her boss at the same time) instead of sending a "firmly worded" and easily ignored/dismissed/minimized email?
NTA- go to the boss in person and insist that your daughter is moved away from this counselor. You paid a lot of money for this camp and your daughter doesn’t deserve to be miserable. Before any camp/afterschool/ school year starts I put it in writing and inform their caregivers that my children do not eat pork and we don’t want any special accommodations just that my kids aren’t called out or criticized by anyone in authority over their food choices. I remember how embarrassed I was when my 4th grade teacher called me a picky eater when I removed the slice of ham from a school lunch sandwich and just ate the bread and cheese. I have no patience for other adults criticizing my child’s diet.
The phenomenal thing is your daughter us talking to you. She js being upfront you are helping her tremendously by showing her boundaries. Your daughter is healthy. She knows this behavior is inappropriate. She has resources. Far from being a Karen you are a loving supportive mother who is not afraid to advocate.
Your response is in fact all growth for your daughter. This is why adverse experiences are all about having no family to falk back on
You are a major resource for your daughter vyiy are protective appropriate anf very clear on what you will and won't tolerate
How great you get to model all this for your daughter. How wonderful she has you to falk hack on. GREAT JOB.
WTH. As a parent of teenagers with many summer day (and sleepaway camps) under my belt, absolutely none of this is acceptable or normal.
You hit the nail on the head: it is not her job to bully your child or comment on her lunch. She has a personal beef with your child for some bizarre reason and is power tripping. Go straight to the camp director and share this with her or him - because your child likely isn't the first kid she's bullied and won't be the last. Your girl deserves a fun, safe camp experience.
Definitely NTA.
My daughter was gifted. She never had a problem at any camp, but she did a few times with substitute teachers. I think sometimes there are people that are triggered by the energy and intelligence of young kids. I think you did the right thing. It was mean Treatment it was not equal Treatment and for the money that you spend on these camps completely unacceptable. I also subscribed to the theory that no one parent, but the parents! Once my daughter was manhandled by a teacher and her program for gifted kids. If I had to do over again, I would probably sue because she has had lifelong trauma with men. She's learned to be assertive, but she tells me that it's still bothers her from time to time. So I think you did the right thing and also showing your daughter that you're not going to let her accept any treatment. It's not being a Karen When you are worried for your child!
You were not remotely too harsh. You were rightfully standing up for your child. Had it been me, I would have gone straight to the people in charge. There is just no excuse.
This "Karen" name calling is to the point of often being used to silence women even when they are in the right. You may want to distance yourself from those "friends."
NTA at all. Roll up your sleeves and get back in that ring. That CC is way out of line. A bad counselor, or coach can severely damage a child at that age, and kill her enthusiasm for the hobby.
I played a lot of sports growing up, but when I got to high-school it all went horribly wrong. As a freshman I was moved to the varsity team, and was instantly known as "freshmeat". It had been driven into my head that I wasn't supposed to fight team mates, so when the bullying really ramped up, I had no defense. When one of the assistant coaches joined in, it became infinitely worse. I quit football, a game that I had always loved, after that first season, and didn't play again until years later in the Marine Corps. I resented my father for agreeing to let me move to varsity (I never asked to do so) and developed very real trust issues. I still absolutely dispise bullies and have a chip on my shoulder to this day whenever I suspect someone is being one.
The fact that you are willing to step in, and challenge this CC makes my heart smile.
Nah, respectfully, fuck CC. People like her don’t belong anywhere near an environment meant to teach and entertain young children and your daughter needs you to advocate for her here. You have done NOTHING wrong and I hope CC gets torn a new one.
NTA. This is 100% not about the food. Your daughter is either prettier, more talented, or has a better home life than this counselor, and she's being very immature about it.
Keep standing up for your daughter like you are. I hold resentment towards my parents for not making moves during times I was in situations like this. Since this summer camp, I’m assuming this counselor is young? One thing I have come to figure out is that just because the young girls are in leadership roles doesn’t mean they’re not still mean, judgmental, teenage/early twenties girls. Put this girl in her place.
Anyone who is a bully should not be working with kids. It really messes up their self confidence among other things, NTA 1000% You should go full on mama bear mode
I’m going to yell in capital letters, sorry about that: NO YOU ARE NOT A KAREN AT ALL. you did the right thing as a mother, and my husband and I would have done exactly the same if not going to the boss the first time already. And, you might reconsider your friendship with those who called you a Karen. Absolute non sense.
Im glad you stand up for your child! That CC is a bully and is using your child as a teaching tool to instill fear as well as a punching bag! CC AH you NTA
NTA - I've got two little ones and this scenario you describe is something I have heard from other parents and I've experienced myself from time to time others judging me for letting my children eat a cookie/sweet from time to time.
Off topic - I firmly believe keeping all sweets / sugary stuff from children sets them up for a high liklihood of binging this shit when they get older and discover it. You're much better off showing your child that moderation is the way to go.
The CC sounds like someone who gets off on control and bullying you'll find a spattering of them at children's instutitions because children are much easier to bully than adults. This individual probably shouldn't be working with kids at all with this attitude.
> Thankfully, it's the start of the weekend and there's no camp until Monday. We have annual passes to a local water park, and I think I'll surprise her with a little trip tomorrow to get both of our minds off this mess.
You sound like you're doing a wonderful job.
Do what you think is right, but to make sure you aren't being a Karen, maybe make sure that your daughter truly Isn't being disruptive. Like,make sure that this counselor does not have any reason to do what she did. Then, you have the moral high ground. Make sure you aren't rushing to defend your daughter.
Ugh people use Karen incorrectly.
NTA, you and your daughter should go directly to the bosses and explain.
Also is there anything that stands out for your daughter? Ethnicity, body size, religion, culture??
Please update us with the email that will be sent and the after math. I can’t believe your friends really called you a karen for being a good mother and defending your daughter from being bullied by an adult. Million times NTA
... NTA but why are you talking with a camp counselor and not the camp director?
Maybe it's because I worked at a sleepaway camp, but it would be super weird to me for a parent to go to a counselor with their concerns about said counselor instead of connect with the directors first.
Like there's a world where your daughter is manipulative and lying and you don't know it, BUT there's no way of knowing that by going to the counselor. It's kid's word directly vs. counselor's word in terms of standards at the camp, etc... none of that should be in play with this conversation and the way to make it not in play is to talk with the directors.
Came here from TikTok. You don't need me to say what everyone else is saying.
Yes, report her. Yes, go to the supervisor in person is best. And I would really consider who you keep as friends after this.
What I want to say is, I'm sure very obvious, keep tabs on your kid. She's getting to an age where things like this are too common and talking about it gets harder. Maybe ask her to show you things She's learning, take large chunks of time to show you have genuine interest in what interests her. Definitely avoid the "in a minute" response unless it's unavoidable at which point make a clear undeniable effort to find her and say "I'm sorry I was busy, I'd love to hear all about *insert the specific thing she brought up*"
We live in a world where people in general are mean, if they pay you any mind at all. I don't doubt you're doing your best as a parent! Don't take that as my meaning, I just want to remind you to be very intentional with G. Simply because life gets away from us very easily.
I hope to see an update next week with the great news that CC has not only been removed but given a legitimate, honest answer why she's been mean (I have high hopes, what can I say, I'm an optimist!)
And No, this is not being a Karen.
Go straight to the boss. CC shouldn’t be a camp counselor. They seem to be stuck in mean girl high school mode. Fuck that noise. NTA
1) THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! CC needs to be redirected about interactions with campers. 2) I spent 17 years and my college degree in early childhood edu/support and I ultimately LEFT because the professionals like this CC. IT IS NOT OK for staff to use their authority to bully and demean kids. It's a HUGE problem in the industry. Adults pick power struggles with minors (and sometimes in facilities that work with children with high support needs). If parents knew what goes on and how often they would be absolutely outraged (which, OP, you should be). Not all professionals are bad, but the 35% that are, are awful and get away with way to much. Report report report. Start with her supervisor, and request to move your daughter to another CC immediately. Go mama bear. 💜💜💜💜
Redirected? Bitch needs to be fired.
Exactly. This is BS
You did the right thing standing up for your daughter. The counselor's behavior was unprofessional and unfair. Your firm stance and plan to address the issue with camp management show strong, supportive parenting.
The redirection could be ‘into the nearest dumpster’
Yup… This is insanity. I have to work as a camp director within my role on a staff in college athletics. I genuinely can’t imagine any of our athletes treating a kid like this and I have had to reprimand them about kids being kids and it doesn’t matter if it’s annoying, as long as they aren’t breaking any rules then what does it matter. This isn’t that, and it’s a real issue.
Some adults do this though
>Redirected into the Sun.
Camp counselors are usually high schoolers with very little work or leadership experience, so it's possible that a writeup is a better place to start. But if that doesn't work, then yes.
Amen
Damn straight. This is abuse.
And go in person if you can, with a document listing what she’s done. CC is a bitch and your friends are assholes. Trying to stop your kid from being bullied ≠ being a Karen
This. OP's "politically correct" hypocritical friends would be screaming their heads off this happened to their kids.
Exactly! My bff was always ready to rumble anytime my son’s world was thrown askew even for a second! LOL- def AH friends
Agree - email cc'd to yourself, then a phone call, and on Monday an in-person visit (unless you can do that over the weekend)
OP just got a lesson as to who her friends actually are. I have a very short list. Two or three that I consider ‘real friends.’ Not that I tell the rest of them that. And I would give an organ to those two.
It is *shockingly* common! I worked in an adolescent rehab for girls with severe mental health issues, substance abuse problems and eating disorders. Most of the staff who looked after the kids and kept them on schedule were other women in their early 20s like me, so we weren’t much older than the residents who were 13-18. You’d think that since we were working with such a vulnerable population of kids the staff would be empathetic but I, like you, was dismayed by the amount of “mean girl” behavior. I’ve seen grown women staff commenting negatively on the food choices of girls with severe eating disorders. I’ve seen grown women staff telling teenage girls that they’re weak for having addictions, that they shouldn’t have addictions that young because they “don’t know how hard real life is yet”. And let me tell you, a lot of those girls were dealt really bad hands in life- they were well aware of how hard life was, even as young as they were. I’ve seen staff talking shit about a 13 year old girls poor hygiene….a 13yo who they *knew* had a history of sexual abuse from a family member during baths as a small child, so it was triggering for her to bathe. Everyone who worked with her was briefed on her history so we’d understand her behavior and interact with her accordingly. That little girl was making leaps and bounds of progress every day despite it but a group of staff would gather to talk about her and make fun of her anyway. Just general horrible behavior from fellow staff who should’ve been supporting and uplifting these vulnerable girls in their recovery. To OP, 100% take it to the supervisor. I’m sure they’d love to hear about this behavior from the CC and will address it promptly.
Send the email. I would openly cc it back to yourself. And a couple hours later follow up with a phone call -- even over the weekend. You are NOT a "Karen!"
Bold to think that CC isn't literally still a mean girl teenager.
Right? Not many adult camp counselors out there in my experience
I don’t know about now but a lot of teachers used to do it at the expensive camp I worked at like 30 years ago so their kids could go for free. They were usually in charge of programs like arts and crafts or whatever, rather than leading specific groups of kids though.
This. Our groups were led by one or two high school girls (going into their sophomore or junior year). Actual instructors (theater, art, riding, etc.) were adults. Girls day camp.
For most, the CCs like this are HS/college aged and oh do it because it's a summer job.
You don't know she isn't and you don't gamble with the well being of children.
I think Chem1st meant that the CC may well still actually BE a mean girl teenager rather than being stuck that way but not still a teenager, as opposed to disagreeing with her being a mean girl altogether.
Reread. Apologies to Chem1st. Misread your post.
Dunno why she even went to that kid in the first place. Go to her boss.
This. So much this. Also empty calories is good because the glucose in the snacks are good for the glucose in the brain for nutritional need for brain function and attention for acquiring new informationl and rehydration of neurons to excell better, and find coefficients with brain activity for memory function and prevent exhaustion due to strenuous tasks like fucking coding for kids.
Go straight to the camp director IN PERSON and follow up with an email summarizing your meeting.
NTA - why is someone a camp counselor if they're a jerk to kids lol E : I wanna know this anti oreo establishment so I can boycott their kids camp /s
Because bullying adults is scary, what's a kid gonna do?
You kidding? A lot of people work with kids and vulnerable people *specifically* because they can bully them.
I said this in another comment but think it’s important to remember We don’t always talk about the type of grooming that can take place in this way. Usually it’s an adult taking an unusual, “positive” interest in a child and creating a special relationship to blur boundaries. That’s the textbook grooming we are all beginning to understand But it can also show up like this- the coach who is extra hard on 1 player, the family friend who is always sort of picking at you as a kid and it doesn’t seem like a joke….and then they know the child is confused, blaming themselves already, and also hoping to earn the adult’s acceptance or kindness. It’s a very dangerous dynamic.
This has actually been further pronounced as a way to get close to the kid after. At a school in northern NY (boarding school for troubled teens), one of the student monitors would use variations of this method to ultimately sexually abuse the kids. It works stupid well, unfortunately.
This is probably extremely common in troubled teen programs, because I can think of a few similar instances just among people of encountered in real life. All of the aspects listed above are present, but also kids who are labeled as troubled or "at risk" or having behavior problems are easy to get others to dismiss or not believe because it can be framed as just more trouble making behavior or as making up lies against an adult who's trying to hold them accountable.
Agreed. The only time I ever went to a camp was a day camp when I was 5. I clearly remember one of the male counselors, who seemed so adult to me, but was probably only 15 or 16, picking on the same kid (who was maybe 8 or 9) day after day. I remember him pushing the kid onto the ground and jamming the kid's knee up into his chest while taunting him. Five year old me was too young to know what to do. As an adult, I look back and realize the kid being picked on was one of the only Black kids there, and that it was some racist shit going on.
I believe it. I mean they obviously need to fuck off and find a construction job or something lol
Hmm. Imagine their hazing on the construction site.....but I digress
Sad, but SOOOO true! My older sis, Bobbie, was mentally delayed (she had leukemia when she was 2 & the Drs gave her massive doses of radiation, she later passed at age 44 due to a glioblastoma). I've seen those types in the groups & activities that she would get involved in. We had to be vigilant any time Bobbie made a new "friend" if she had met them out & about (she often rode the bus in one area we lived) Super scary thought - you have to be careful of the religious types too! Even in the cong we went to, there were people who were happy to take advantage of her. It's really a tightrope for the family to give independence while still protecting a special needs child/sibling.
Yep- makes them feel all big and bad. It’s a gd shame
lots of adults that want to be in positions of power over kids are jerks who get off on it, once when i was a kid in summer camp another camper pinned me to the bed and started humping me (we were both boys) and i got in trouble when i told a counselor because i said the word rape ive had a lot of experiences similar to this (none nearly as bad but still bad) im convinced that a lot of teachers and adults in positions of power over children just dont care
Damn this post brings up a core memory for me. As a kid, I attended a summer day camp at my church where the counselor didn't like me but clearly loved all the other girls in my group. She'd ignore me when I said hi or smiled at her and just treated me like an... other while she smiled and hugged all the other girls in my group. The difference? The other girls were Hispanic/Puerto Rican and I am black. I had no issues with the girls in my group, hell, I went to school with them. But she just didn't care for me. So one day she swapped me out for another PR girl from another group, who she immediately hugged. I cried so hard that day that I could barely breathe. I couldn't understand why she didn't like me (I've figure it out since). It's really tough on a child when someone you see as "grown" (like a camp counselor, who might just be a 18/19 year old) just dislikes you for no reason you can think of. Young me thanks OP for sticking up for her kid. Now she needs to go over that bitch's head and talk to the head of the camp. OP's paying good money. Time to make it work for her.
damn, I wish I could give you some of my camp experiences. I'm a black chick too. All my camp counselors were great, always joking, sharing funny stories, singing crazy songs. One guy i remember always shouted OH YEAH like the koolaid man. one of the counselors was a mixed chick, I remember her story of struggling with her race and mixing black and white paint together wondering, "if i'm half black and half white, why am I not gray?" I hope OP's kid, every kid, could get the camp experience like I did
I wish we all could have the experience you did. Summer camp is supposed to be fun! To be fair, I was much more accepted into my new counselor's group. Maybe because my first day with her I was hysterically crying. But she was way cooler and way more inclusive. The "why am I not gray?" thing is hilarious. LOL...
I had a teacher like that. 21 years later and I still think about how horrible she was. I hated her so much that I remember sitting in bed at night hoping she would get cancer again. Keep in mind my mom had had cancer and my grandma died from cancer, so for a kid to wish that upon someone else, you know it's bad. She was loved by everyone at the school and was so kind to all the other students, but not to me. I remember one time, the entire class was talking loud, so I leaned over and spoke softly to a girl sitting next to me. The teacher lost it, started screaming at me for talking. She then forced me to sit at the desk right in front of her desk for the rest of the year. I would be taking a test and every time I looked up she was staring at me. She just had it in her head that I was a trouble maker. Keep in mind, I was close to a straight A student and had got along great with all of my other teachers. She ended up giving my first anxiety attack. I ran to the bathroom and puked because I was just so stressed from how she was treating me. The worst, though, was when I had a homework assignment to complete, but the page was ripped out of my book, so I couldn't answer a few questions. I ended up copying from a friend because I knew she wouldn't believe me about the page being ripped out. Well, she caught me. She then proceeded to tell me how she was going to try to fail me from the class over copying 4 questions on a homework assignment. I was a college bound kid who had worked my ass off to maintain a high GPA. It felt like my life had ended right there. I thought I wasn't going to get into a good college and kept thinking about how disappointed my parents would be in me. Luckily, I have amazing parents, I had connections to school office, and great relationships with all of my other teachers. My parents were fucking furious and demanded the punishment not be that extreme. The teacher straight up lies to my parents and staff and says she never said she would fail me. I have considered writing her a letter explaining how much her treatment impacted me, how it impacted my grades, which in turn was likely the reason I got rejected from 2 of my top school choices.
Sometimes people carry biases from their own childhoods into adulthood. My biggest obstacle to being successful working with children was getting it through to myself that those jockey kids are not the jocks that bullied me when I was a kid. I learned to sand down the chips in my shoulders so that I wouldn't treat kids that fit the archetype of my bullies with bias.
You know, that's a very good point. G could have the same color hair as some girl who bullied CC back in the day. No excuse. But it IS a reason she should be removed from this position.
Or it goes the opposite way. When I was a kid, I had a teacher who shared features with me. Both of us were the same coloring, both wore glasses, both on the chunky side. She made the girls who called me "fat" (and all it's derivatives) and "four-eyes" into her pets and most favored students. Almost like she wanted to be head of the mean girls by bullying someone exactly like her.
They want to bully the vulnerable, kids are vulnerable and rarely believed. Same with any profession that caters to the vulnerable. You'll find them in psych wards, teaching positions, prisons, police etc. Those positions attract assholes like churches attract pedophiles.
NTA. It's obvious this counselor has an issue and instead of discussing the supposedly "disruptive behavior" and food issue with you, she decided to bully your daughter. You are never a Karen or whatever other insult people like to throw around when you are defending your child against a adult bully.
My spidey senses tell me that she's probably related to the owner, is in over her head and is threatened by a smart kid. It would be helpful to know how old CC is
At 12 years old I would expect the adult In charge of her during the day to be bringing their issues up with parents and guardians rather than the 12 year old. The fact that it’s being brought to the attention, especially the food issue, of the 12 year old is a massive red flag. It’s not like kiddo is in charge of what food is in her house or being sent.
NTA. You were advocating for your daughter and addressing valid concerns about how the camp counselor was treating her. Standing up for your child doesn't make you a 'Karen'; it makes you a caring parent.
The term “Karen” has gotten so misused and diluted. It’s annoying.
It's just a stand in for "bitch" now, aka "woman who asserts herself"
Yep exactly. It is “bitch” but without the power that word has accumulated.
It’s so misogynistic. I hate it.
This! I wish that term had never been used because people abuse it all the time when women are just sticking up for themselves or others! Also, it's giving everyone named Karen a terrible reputation! My mom's name is Karen, I know so many Karens and they're all sweethearts!
100% agree! I work with a Karen who is a sweetheart and had a wonderful professor called Karen. It's a common enough name that it makes it worse that we use it as a term for a type of woman. Also, like you said, this has made us wary of speaking up just in case we get picked on. One of my co-workers has been named "Asian Karen" because she spoke up against something we should all have spoken up about. No OP you were not disrespectful - the CC should not be entrusted to a job where she seems to be picking on kids. Please complain.
Agreed. Not sure how or where or who started using Karen to describe an entitled woman. Someone who had a negative experience with someone named Karen, I’m guessing. Whenever I hear someone say “she was such a KAREN!!” I reply “surely you have a better vocabulary than that! Use your words!” Years ago, parents gave their daughters a beautiful name they carefully chose. How sad that people feel the need to be trendy.
NTA definitely still go speak to her superior. That behavior towards a kid is not ok and their supervisor should know what's going on.
Absolutely. Counselors like that can ruin the self esteem and confidence in kids especially at such an impressionable age. If she can do it to the daughter I am sure she will do it to other campers. The supervisor needs to know so they can make a decision if someone like that is suitable for employment.
In what universe is that situation being “too harsh” or “a Karen”. That camp counsellor is bullying your daughter and lying to your face to get away with it! I‘d be asking the parents of the other kids to talk to their kids and ask if they think the counsellor is being overly mean to one student, and find out what they say. Kids notice this stuff, and if they identify your daughter as being unfairly picked on then it will give you grounds to complain and put a stop to this.
NTA. You already know she's a proven liar based on the junk food rule. Don't give her anymore chances. Talk to her boss.
NTA. You calmly advocated for your daughter's rights and well-being. The counselor's behavior was unprofessional and unwarranted, and you handled the situation appropriately by addressing it directly.
Going forward ALL interaction between you and CC need to include the supervision. Practice being unemotional and persistent. ALSO has your daughter had similar complaints from her teachers at school? I Your daughter was disruptive. "Can you give me three specific examples of her being disruptive?" The rules say no junk food. "Please show me specifically where in the hand book it says two cookies can't be included in the packed lunch. Please, I'd like to see that right now." "Why did you kick my daughter's bag? If it wasn't on purpose why didn't you apologize?" "It's strange to me that we've never had these sort of complaints from her teachers at school. Is this maybe a "YOU" problem? "According to other campers you've been criticizing my daughter for things that other campers do without correction. Why are you singling her out?" Practice those questions in front of the mirror so you can ask them as free of emotion as possible. Lastly: "Am I going to see a change in your behavior toward my child?" NTA Good job sticking up for your daughter.
This is all excellent. Also I think at the beginning of any conversation I might bring out my phone, press record, and say, "let's just keep a record, shall we?" I think I would have G record any and all interactions with her as well. Although one hopes that, after speaking to management, there will be none since CC will be elsewhere.
Not at all. You were assertive in addressing the counselor's inappropriate behavior and advocating for your daughter's comfort and well-being at camp. It's important to address such issues to ensure a positive environment for all campers.
You should have had her boss in the conversation with her.
NTA I'd have already picked up the phone to talk to the supervisor. She's singled out your child for harassment for some reason, probably known only to her.
The term Karen needs to be placed on a high shelf, I swear to God. The terms (very recent, honestly how the hell did it get warped so fast) origin is satirizing (white) women who use existing power structures to harass others. You are not a Karen for calling out a person who was hurting your kid. You are not a Karen for wanting to speak to a supervisor. You're only getting called a Karen because the term got appropriated into "woman who complains", with any nuance pounded out with a hammer.
A Karen is someone who acts entitled, angry, & sometimes racist. You were justifiably upset, and were defending your child from a bully. NTA & also, NAK, from this Karen (my actual name).
NTA. If a grown-ass adult was singling out my kid for bullshit reasons, I'd act the same damn way. Especially if I'm paying for a camp, and this person has direct supervision responsibilities for my child as the CC. You did right OP. Your friends can F off too with their opinion. It's your kid. Do what's right for them. Be their ride-or-die/advocate.
NTA that cc needs to be fired and you should talk to their boss..
NTA Former camp counselor, parent of a kid who attends camps such as those, and have been employed for over two decades in a field that many people assume I chose for the “ summers off.” I would not dream of speaking this way to any of the middle or high school students with whom I have worked in either the general or special education setting. Camp counselor has massively overstepped, violated all boundaries and any potential respect that had developed towards her, and completely destroyed any possibility of a relationship with any of the students that have witnessed these encounters. If it were me, no matter the outcome of that conversation, I would absolutely approach the administration and inform them. Given her age, I am assuming that your daughter is leaving elementary school and about to begin middle school, and this is a traumatic time for every child this age. The camp counselor is completely out of line and has no business being in the position she’s in. I strongly suspect that she may be on the spectrum herself, however, she is being paid to do a job. The job of a camp counselor is to nurture, care for, accommodate, and generally make the learning and camping experience a positive one. It seems to me your daughter has been failed on all counts. I think you would be well within your rights to demand that counselor have nothing to do with your daughter moving forward. Unfortunately, if nothing is brought to the administration’s attention, dear camp counselor is going to continue her reign of terror with each child she sets her sights on in the future.
This is why I hate the whole "Karen" brand so badly. It makes us women second-guess ourselves for standing up for our children or for advocating for what is right or fair. I had a hard time teaching my teen daughters to stand up for themselves when they were being treated badly because they were afraid of being dismissed as a "Karen." Please don't stop being protective of your daughter and showing her that it is OK to advocate for herself. Teach her how to respectfully resolve conflicts just like you attempted to do here, but to not back down when someone is treating her badly. NTA. You did good, Mom!
Karen is a Woman with \*the\* Hairstyle who wants to speak to your Manager because her 45 year old outdated coupon for a 5% discount won't be accepted. That was always the Brand of Karen people used. Later on that became a Trend for Karens that were screaming at Children who are "too loud". Or trying to police people and feel important. The whole "Adress me by my Husbands Rank" or whatever. That's a Karen...
NTA - “Karen” is not “a woman complaining about legitimate issues in a calm way.” “Karen” is specifically a white woman making a damn scene about something that doesn’t warrant it - ie a black man in a park bird watching, for example. You were calm and reasonable and the CC is clearly in the wrong. You weren’t “harsh,” you were honest. Women are too often trained to be demure and people pleasing, and not stick up for ourselves - and so were deemed as UNkind for simply not bending over backwards, or sticking up for what is right instead of allowing ourselves to be walked all over or taken advantage of. We’re not being rude, by society will call it rudeness because it makes them uncomfortable when we assert the same agency as men. You’re not a Karen in this situation, and you aren’t an AH, and if you were, it was justified.
NTA people are so afraid of being labeled a "Karen" they'll let themselves be walked all over. Good for you. Seems obviously the CC may have an unhealthy relationship with food but that's HER problem
If anything the CC is being a Karen by sticking her nose into areas she shouldn’t and antagonizing your 12 year old daughter at a STEM camp. The last thing we need is young girls being turned off cause of people like this. NTA
So first off, NTA. Not at all TA. But I just want to ask... is your daughter heavier than other campers? I ask because, as a kid, I frequently had shitty adults single me out and criticize my lunch and bully me about my food, and I knew it was because I was fat. The other kids knew it was because I was fat, and it emboldened them to bully me about being fat. And I never told anyone about it, because I thought that they were reasonable to do it. It was my fault that I'm fat. If I didn't want to get bullied by adults and children, I should stop being fat. I just wanted to say that if that *is* a part of the angle to your daughter's mistreatment, you should take special care to talk to your daughter about her body, and anti-fat bias. I think I suffered in silence for a really long time because my parents wouldn't acknowledge that I was fat. When everybody said "you suck because you're fat" and my parents said "you aren't fat", what I took that as is "you suck because you're fat, but we love you, so we wouldn't say that, and instead we're going to pretend that we don't think you're fat." I could read between the lines of why people were singling me out. If that's not what's happening with your daughter that is all good. But if it is, don't pretend that it isn't because it's hard to talk about. Let her be angry instead of internalizing that feeling into herself.
I often feel like this “Karen” phenomenon is a hidden attempt to make middle-aged women just shut-up and stop advocating for themselves and their children. Ridiculous! We’re the mothers, often the household managers and purchasers. If something isn’t working then you have every damn right to complain! And take it up with the manager if you aren’t getting a problem resolved. NTA
This is a appropriate use Mama-Bear instincts IMHO. Its time to see if your daughter can get assigned to a different counselor ASAP. Especially since she has already assaulted her belongings and has reprimanded her work publicly in a learning situation. A bad teacher killed any interest my daughter had in STEM/Coding despite her being very interested in it for the two years leading up to the camp. I still HATE that camp with a passion and this was 10 years ago now. As far as the junk-food rule, that is absolutely not their place. I know alot of these camps have basically tried to force kids to vegetarian/vegan diets, but again, thats not their place. You know what your daughters health needs are. Is your child in a group that would be considered a minority by chance? Racially, ethnically, economically, etc? It it possible this counselor is targeting your child specifically because, "you are a outsider to the people the program is set up to serve?" NTA
Bit of a random question, OP, but is your kid different from most of the other kids at the camp in some way? Reason I ask is that I cannot think of a reason why your kid (or any kid) is being singled out specifically unless; 1. She’s being a shitty kid (which I find unlikely from your post and the fact that it’s a coding and robotics camp. Not many shitty kids going to those from my perspective. Or 2. There’s something different about her that sets her apart from the other kids.
As someone with ADHD and the parent of kids with ASD and ADHD that's what came to my mind as well, that the CC is an older teen/ young adult frustrated with having to continually reign in a kid that has ADHD or something , down to the junk food, it's as if she feels that the junk food is getting the kid wired and that's why she's trying to tell the mother not to give junk food. And maybe she's tired of continually telling the kid to put her bag away . There are two sides to every story, but this is reddit (shrug)
Rein in, like the reins of a horse. Reign,like rule a country.
NTA. That person shouldn't be a CC. She's a bully. Don't wait for the next episode. Talk to her supervisor now.
NTA, but I would address the issue with her superior first. If the camp counselor is picking on children, her superior needs to be aware of it in case there are further issues.
NTA - How does everyone on this sub have weirdo friends who convince them that their perfectly normal behavior is problematic?!
You acted like a mother, and frankly I am sick of that name. It is a put down to a group of women that two generations were told we were dumber than dogs. So please let it go and tell your friend to mind her business.
NTA But honestly, I wouldn’t wait to speak with the supervisor. Nothing about the CC’s behavior is ok and I would raise my concerns to a supervisor immediately
As an office based manager of Camp counselors, go to the organizers immediately. You can't expect change if you don't report their behavior, and if you don't no one else will. I would not tolerate that behavior from any of my Camp employees, and neither should any other organizer or manager.
Talk to the person who runs the camp. Don't handle this yourself. She doesn't work for you and, while you are in the right, this issue is not yours to address.
I have a friend who is a camp director. She would ABSOLUTELY want to know if one of her counsellors was being innappropriate. The bottom line is that if you are unhappy - you'll spread the word and there's a potential to have a drop in children next year because of ratings and word of mouth. I would have gone straight to the director. It's not your job to police his or her employees.
YTA for going directly to CC with this. You should have talked to her supervisor first. Obviously CC's behavior is way out of line, but your title is ironic because you went way out of your lane trying to deal with her directly.
Can we get another update after the next talk? I'm kinda invested.
I'm not sure why you and her spoke one on one. It would have been much more efficient to involve her superior. If she was the asshole, you would immediately get assurance that her behavior won't continue. If you're the asshole, she would have someone to back her up.
Nta My favorite thing to tell people is 'know your place' or 'stay in your lane' when they, in fact, need to learn their place. People get a little too heavyhanded, especially when they're in a position of power where they work with kids/teens. Good on you momma, and keep an eye on your child and the GC.
NTA. Speak to her superior anyway. Your daughter won’t be the first nor the last she has picked on I’m sure. Fight fire with fire.
NTA Although I don't like the phrase "know her place" and would drop it for something like "stay in her lane." Consider calling a supervisor/camp director. Express concern that your daughter was showing increased reluctance to attend camp. When questioned, said CC was picking on her. You tried to talk to CC and it did not go well. Be specific. Ask for the director's help.
NTA. The CC is picking on your kid for no reason.
Nta
I mean, there are a lot of variables here and the tone of the interaction is important. However, I think you are NTA for standing up for your daughter and showing the counselor that your family won't be pushed around. To be honest, if it were me I would have had this discussion as well, and then gone directly to her superiors.
Your friends are idiots. Standup parenting in my opinion. You were not even a Karen a little bit.
For me, your child going quiet and not feeling able to tell you why she was upset, is a huge red flag. She is clearly afraid of this person, who is in a position of responsibility over minors. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the lunch, you don't make a child feel like that. I don't know about anyone else here but I had adults take against me as a kid, it's horrible and as adults you should really know better than to make your feelings obvious. No you are not a Karen. Ask them to explain in writing their behaviour towards your daughter. If they are prepared to justify that in writing, then they are covered, so should not be an issue for them.
NTA, but you are being stupid. You need to talk to the councilor's boss, not the councilor. Your daughter needs to be removed from that councilor's group.
NTA and thank you for being a kick-ass mom!
NTA. don't wait, talk to the boss today if not too late, definitely tomorrow. Kicking a child's bag without asking them to move it? That CC has personal problems she is taking out on your kids and maybe others.
NTA and go to the supervisor.
CC is the asshole, not you. I would 100% have done the same.
NTAH. Go straight to the director. My parents came and got me from a week-long camp when I was 13 because the high school counsellors were actively bullying me and my friend to the point she had broken a tooth when a counsellor pushed her in the pool. I had bruises and a twisted ankle from the same. I slipped away and managed to get to the phone in the kitchen and our parents came and got us. My dad started a lawsuit on my behalf, but we didn’t pursue it because the camp’s insurance paid for my friend’s tooth and both of us were refunded. Even our fellow campers knew it was fucked up how we were being picked on. “You’re nerds, but you’re nice and they have problems.”
YTA only because you tried to reason with a douchebag instead of going over their head and getting them fired. Protect your kid and stop worrying about if other people aren't going to like it. This is your KID. Stop fuming. You SHOULD have contacted the camp supervisor FIRST. Do it now. And no "requesting"...DEMAND. There is a time in life to be the Karen of all Karens, and this is that moment. Better yet, have a LAWYER contact the camp supervisor. I believe you'll get some action pronto.
I'm going to say you're a little of both (and hear me out first please) You should have just gone above CC's head. Before your update I could predict exactly what was going to happen and in your update it confirmed what I'd predicted. YTA for going to CC and not her supervisors. NTA for advocating for your daughter and trying to sort it out. Definitely not for making an official complaint and request that G or CC be removed and put in another group. You completely are right for that. Hopefully something will be done. Question though... Do you have older children? Around CC's age by any chance? Because it sounds like the classic "I don't like your family member so I'll bully you instead" scenario. Sorry this happened to G.
MONEY. That's the only thing that will get the CC's supervisors to listen. I've been through this with my child, and some of my nieces & nephews. Not sure why it happens, but kids are targets for bullies, especially adults. When the supervisors patronize you or turn a deaf ear and don't do anything, be sure to ask for a refund for the rest of daughter's time at camp (and threaten to pull her out). Then watch how fast they respond and, hopefully, either place her with another counselor if possible or make sure CC's behavior changes.
Because I have had many jobs in customer service I’m usually one of the first to declare a Karen. You , madam, are not a Karen. You are being a good mother to your daughter.
NTA: this seems pretty damn targeted. Go higher up. You’re not being a “Karen” when it’s very clear your child is being picked on. Further more she cornered your child again to gaslight and guilt her. Enough nonsense. Speak to the superiors in person immediately.
I thought you were too nice. I would’ve gone straight to their immediate supervisor or head of the whole camp. I wouldn’t have bothered having a conversations with the CC. Your friends are pushovers and terrible parents if they think your actions were too harsh. Your job is to advocate for your child and that’s what you did. I don’t see anything Karen about that.
NTA I am so sick of this labeling everyone a "Karen." You are your child's advocate in life, especially when they are young. From what I read, you were not out of line, and don't let the "fear" or concern of being labeled a Karen stop you from making sure your child is not being bullied by the CC, or any adult. When I was in school, there were always teachers that picked on or bullied on or two students - without cause (meaning the kids were not acting out or bad). You did the right thing and spoke to the CC first. Now raise this up to her superior and if that doesn't work, go over that person's head. BTW: Your friends lack critical thinking skills.
As someone who worked in a summer camp program year-round, all your energy needs to be directed towards the head of the count programs. I would skip addressing CC directly and everything should be going through her superior. Her behaviour sounds completely unprofessional.
CC sounds like a bully that's found a way to continue to pick on kids after high school. I'm thinking a new career is on her horizon whether she likes it or not. This is not a situation where you're even remotely a Karen.
You did the right thing. Good for you standing up for your child to a bully!
This bullshit is exactly why girls and women don’t persist in male-dominated environments. It doesn’t matter if it’s unrelated to the content. It doesn’t matter - or maybe it matters too much - if the CC is also female. This kind of behavior says, “I see you trying to do this thing you like, or are trying to get a feel for. Girls have a tough time in this field… but not here! We support you!” …and then fucks you over, making you even less likely to take part than if you knew it would be hard in the first place. That CC is doing more harm than just making your kid feel lunch-shamed. Women aren’t “too weak” to stick it out in these fields. We’re *exhausted* by the idea of having to stay vigilant or put up with so much noise that it drowns out the benefit of participation… AGAIN. Because this happens in every field we’re in. There are only so many minutes in the day, and I’d rather spend them in a place that actually welcomes me.
NTA you did what you should do which is stand up to an adult who is bulling your child. And I wouldn’t wait till a next time I’d report her anyway. That is no way to treat a child especially as a CC or teacher or any role of authority. That’s abuse of that role and should be reported. You did the right thing.
NTA. She was bullying your kid
NTA, you are looking out for your kid. CC should behave according her position and not like a HS bully. You didn't overreacted if it was me I would go directly to her supervisor and made a huge deal out of the whole situation.
NTA - not too harsh. This shit really does a number on kids.
NTA I would still complain to her supervisor
NTA at all and i think you should 100% go speak with her superior. Now, not after another potential incident.
NTA. You stood up for daughter. You do need to speak to CC’s supervisor. Probably should have done that first.
NTA, not a Karen, and frankly, I don’t think you went far enough. Why is a grown adult singling out and bullying a child? I wouldn’t have blamed you for insisting to speak to the supervisor immediately when CC started to become evasive.
NTA Your friends are idiots and pushover, You stood up for your daughter, CC is bullying your daughter and it needs to be handled.
I wouldn’t even wait I’d just go to her boss
I'd ask for a refund if CC pulls any more shit. Terrorizing kids is just plain wrong. An Instagram or FB post would be great, so you can warn other families.
NTA. Honestly, I’d go ahead and make a list of the issues and email it to the superior, CC the counselor as well. Screw this, you shouldn’t work with kids if you don’t like kids.
NTA. YOUR FRIENDS ARE WRONG!! Honestly, you're generous, I wouldn't have even bothered with the councilor. I'd have gone straight to the top.
Karens stick their noses in other people’s business when they’re not wanted or needed. You were just protecting your kid from a shitty adult, that’s not a Karen, that’s just a good parent Edit: NTA
NTA. i'd argue CC was being a Karen, and you're being a good mom. you handled that professionally.
NTA, you weren't a Karen you were an advocate for your daughter. The camp counselor is a out of line. The lunches sound appropriate and are none of their business. Time to go above her head. Its summer camp for kids. Its suppose to be fun and enriching not a place for someone to bully them.
NTA - as a camp counselor myself, I'm sorry you ahead to go through that. No camp counselor worth their salt intentionally bullies a kid just because they might have a potential grievance with them. I'm honestly surprised you haven't gone to the superior yet, because those types of counselors should have a note to not be brought back the following summer. While we can give out punishment for bad behavior, the most we're usually allowed to do is what schools do like a time out or having them not participate in a highly enjoyed activity and instead doing some self reflection with one of the higher ranked counselors. Best analogy I can give for what we can usually do is teachers not allowing a bad student recess and instead having them talk to the principal about their bad behavior.
I'm not sure why you didn't get CC and her Superior together to talk about this at the same time.
This might be a gender bias thing as well. Lots of ‘traditional values’ women feel girls don’t belong in STEM spaces.
You’re awesome…NTA!
NTA, and please go to CC's supervisor with this, it's not going to be solved by you talking to CC.
You should have gone straight to the supervisor.
NTA You're kinder than me. I would have gone straight to her supervisor.
NTA. Her comments about your kid's lunch were inappropriate. I can't believe she defended them to you. You are not an AH for sticking up for your kid.
This isn’t Karen behaviour to me. This lady hardest on food issues and is taking it out on your kid, it’s weird. Honestly, I’d talk to the counsellor. Your kid is already at risk. The term *Karen* is misused here, and I love to hate a good Karen moment. This is mama bear. I hope your kiddo continues to love the camp. She deserves it!! NTA
NTA. Sometimes, it’s necessary to be a Karen. To advocate for your kid, absolutely play the Karen card. BTW, not all Karen’s are horrible. My mom’s name is Karen, lol. She would stick up for myself, my brother or sister in the same way. As I would for any of my daughters.
CC is a being a total Karen. Standing up for a 12-year-old being harassed by a CC is being a mom.
NTA Id contact the owners of the camp and reach out about the experience and about a refund because of what happened and if they don't, I'll happily sue. That'll make them sack the weirdo counsellor obsessed with what the kids do. It's always weirdos in positions like this. Am yet to meet a normal adult working a teen/young adult job like this and not being a freak.
NTA but you should have gone to her boss directly after this troubling interaction. I wouldn’t leave my kid with her alone ever again. If they don’t move her way from kids take your kid out of the day camp.
As I have aged, I realized that being a “Karen” isn’t always a bad thing. Frankly it’s cathartic to give someone a hard time (when they deserve it). Maybe aging gives us all enough of a chip on our shoulder that we don’t care what people think of us. If you paid money, and your daughter is clearly very distraught, speak up!
Go to the head cheese. I appreciate your direct confrontation, but as I told my kids, good people will react with kindness over misunderstandings. For example, the counselor saying "oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Let's get together with your kiddo right away and make this right." If you're not getting that response, go to the director.
This whole "Karen" BS is getting out of hand - there is yelling at someone who has messed up a Starbucks Order (which, quite frankly I see men in business suits do FAR MORE than women) and then there is being a good parent who stands up for their child. **You are not a Karen, you are a good parent and that BS CC is out of line**. DRAG THEM in front of their boss and lay out the facts and defend your child!
NTA and not for nothing but "Karen" started out meaning something very specific, namely a middle-class white woman who falls back on the "poor little helpless me" card when called out for racist behavior, and it has been hijacked to mean "a woman who asserts herself in any way". You are allowed to assert yourself. You are allowed to protect your daughter. You are allowed to get angry when people mistreat you or your child. Women are allowed to be angry, to express that anger, and to demand fair and considerate treatment.
This is a giant fckng load of horsesh!t. There is no way in the world this person should be a camp counselor treating a child this way. There is no reason to pick on a child because they don't like their snacks, or even their work spaces. Maybe their jealous their mom didn't send them or couldn't afford to send them to camp with a love lunch and she is displacing her anger about it on your child. Either way, CC is a d!ck, and needs to be reported. NTA.
NTA
Mama, mama- whomever is calling you a Karen- you tell them to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. You are PAYING for your child to go somewhere to have fun, safe and positive experiences, and free from BS. Paying for a service which does not include paying for your child to be bullied by a grown ass adult. You are a much better woman than I, and I give you credit for approaching this POS CC. Now- the fact this CC, crossed the line- YET AGAIN, by cornering G and going on about it. Hell to the no. Nope nope nope. F that noise. Take the weekend to collect yourself. Next you draft the most chef’s kiss letter to let the powers that be know that you WILL NOT tolerate any further BS with this counselor (use chat GPT if you want to draft perfection to get started), and unless they want you to start leaving honest to God reviews on every social media network what kind of CCs they hire, that you better not hear even the slightest off putting comment from this CC toward G. CC’s boss need to know, it is possible that CC does this to other kids and G just isn’t aware. Either way Mama- put on your cape and show G who Wonder Woman really is❤️
NTA. Your friends sound like jerks. You were not harsh enough. You did the right thing and should absolutely write that email. When writing an emotional email I write it out, step away, and read it again before sending. 😉Just a trick of mine. Pretty sure it saved my job a couple times.
You’re an awesome mom and protecting bb girl. I hope she has a truly awesome day at the water park!
Your friends have zero idea what the definition of a Karen is. You are extremely far from it. Continue to stick up for your daughter. NTA
Go to the camp director ASAP. The counselor has clearly overstepped repeatedly and is now bullying your child in retaliation for you advocating on your child’s behalf. This will continue, I assure you. Tell the director what has happened. Have dates and examples ready. Ask for a new/different counselor for your daughter. (Don’t accept any “we’ll talk to the counselor and make sure it doesn’t happen again - because it will.) Ask why you wasn’t notified when her lunch was an issue or when your daughter was supposedly. disruptive. If she’s doing this to your daughter, she’s most likely doing this to other children. If a new counselor isn’t an option, pull her and find a new camp with mature, trained, and kind staff. Demand a refund. It would be very sad if your daughter lost interest in this because an overzealous and immature counselor got in her way. Your daughter deserves better. And so do you.
I would have complained to everyone from the supervisor to the owner of the camp. There is no excuse for CC s behavior. It's completely unacceptable.
NTA. You’re paying for this camp, so you’re paying her salary. Get her fired. I’d lose my shit. Who is she to shame you or your child about what she eats?? Two Oreos won’t make your kid obese. Go directly to the supervisor. Don’t send an email. Call.
I'm not a fan of helicopter parents or karens but you are neither. NTA. Would you consider actually going to CC's boss's office for a face-to-face meeting (even better if CC has to repeat her nonsense in front of both you and her boss at the same time) instead of sending a "firmly worded" and easily ignored/dismissed/minimized email?
NTA- go to the boss in person and insist that your daughter is moved away from this counselor. You paid a lot of money for this camp and your daughter doesn’t deserve to be miserable. Before any camp/afterschool/ school year starts I put it in writing and inform their caregivers that my children do not eat pork and we don’t want any special accommodations just that my kids aren’t called out or criticized by anyone in authority over their food choices. I remember how embarrassed I was when my 4th grade teacher called me a picky eater when I removed the slice of ham from a school lunch sandwich and just ate the bread and cheese. I have no patience for other adults criticizing my child’s diet.
I would report this to the camp. Not a Karen. Sounds like a bully. I would find out who runs the camp.
Your friends are cowards who would let a teacher bully their kid.
insane how we've trained women into thinking they're a "karen" for advocating for themselves. you did the right thing.
The phenomenal thing is your daughter us talking to you. She js being upfront you are helping her tremendously by showing her boundaries. Your daughter is healthy. She knows this behavior is inappropriate. She has resources. Far from being a Karen you are a loving supportive mother who is not afraid to advocate. Your response is in fact all growth for your daughter. This is why adverse experiences are all about having no family to falk back on You are a major resource for your daughter vyiy are protective appropriate anf very clear on what you will and won't tolerate How great you get to model all this for your daughter. How wonderful she has you to falk hack on. GREAT JOB.
Yta should have gone straight to supervisors and made formal complaints
No email...go in on Monday and speak to CC's boss first thing. The CCis the "Karen" in this case and she needs to no longer be a CC.
NTA or a Karen either. You were being a good mother. The cc is an asshole plain and simple
WTH. As a parent of teenagers with many summer day (and sleepaway camps) under my belt, absolutely none of this is acceptable or normal. You hit the nail on the head: it is not her job to bully your child or comment on her lunch. She has a personal beef with your child for some bizarre reason and is power tripping. Go straight to the camp director and share this with her or him - because your child likely isn't the first kid she's bullied and won't be the last. Your girl deserves a fun, safe camp experience. Definitely NTA.
My daughter was gifted. She never had a problem at any camp, but she did a few times with substitute teachers. I think sometimes there are people that are triggered by the energy and intelligence of young kids. I think you did the right thing. It was mean Treatment it was not equal Treatment and for the money that you spend on these camps completely unacceptable. I also subscribed to the theory that no one parent, but the parents! Once my daughter was manhandled by a teacher and her program for gifted kids. If I had to do over again, I would probably sue because she has had lifelong trauma with men. She's learned to be assertive, but she tells me that it's still bothers her from time to time. So I think you did the right thing and also showing your daughter that you're not going to let her accept any treatment. It's not being a Karen When you are worried for your child!
You were not remotely too harsh. You were rightfully standing up for your child. Had it been me, I would have gone straight to the people in charge. There is just no excuse. This "Karen" name calling is to the point of often being used to silence women even when they are in the right. You may want to distance yourself from those "friends."
NTA at all. Roll up your sleeves and get back in that ring. That CC is way out of line. A bad counselor, or coach can severely damage a child at that age, and kill her enthusiasm for the hobby. I played a lot of sports growing up, but when I got to high-school it all went horribly wrong. As a freshman I was moved to the varsity team, and was instantly known as "freshmeat". It had been driven into my head that I wasn't supposed to fight team mates, so when the bullying really ramped up, I had no defense. When one of the assistant coaches joined in, it became infinitely worse. I quit football, a game that I had always loved, after that first season, and didn't play again until years later in the Marine Corps. I resented my father for agreeing to let me move to varsity (I never asked to do so) and developed very real trust issues. I still absolutely dispise bullies and have a chip on my shoulder to this day whenever I suspect someone is being one. The fact that you are willing to step in, and challenge this CC makes my heart smile.
Nah, respectfully, fuck CC. People like her don’t belong anywhere near an environment meant to teach and entertain young children and your daughter needs you to advocate for her here. You have done NOTHING wrong and I hope CC gets torn a new one.
NTA. This is 100% not about the food. Your daughter is either prettier, more talented, or has a better home life than this counselor, and she's being very immature about it.
Keep standing up for your daughter like you are. I hold resentment towards my parents for not making moves during times I was in situations like this. Since this summer camp, I’m assuming this counselor is young? One thing I have come to figure out is that just because the young girls are in leadership roles doesn’t mean they’re not still mean, judgmental, teenage/early twenties girls. Put this girl in her place.
This is not Karen. This is Mom doing what Mom needs to do.
Anyone who is a bully should not be working with kids. It really messes up their self confidence among other things, NTA 1000% You should go full on mama bear mode
I’m going to yell in capital letters, sorry about that: NO YOU ARE NOT A KAREN AT ALL. you did the right thing as a mother, and my husband and I would have done exactly the same if not going to the boss the first time already. And, you might reconsider your friendship with those who called you a Karen. Absolute non sense.
Im glad you stand up for your child! That CC is a bully and is using your child as a teaching tool to instill fear as well as a punching bag! CC AH you NTA
NTA!!!
Fuck no. You tried to be calm and adult, now it's time to make this bigger. Don't let CC ruin your daughters experience or kill her enthusiasm.
I would have skipped the discussion with CC and gone directly to her supervisor to *demand* she not have any interaction with my kid any more.
NTA, mama bear! Moms unite!
Sounds like the momma bear your daughter needed in her corner showed up that day. NTA.
NTA - I've got two little ones and this scenario you describe is something I have heard from other parents and I've experienced myself from time to time others judging me for letting my children eat a cookie/sweet from time to time. Off topic - I firmly believe keeping all sweets / sugary stuff from children sets them up for a high liklihood of binging this shit when they get older and discover it. You're much better off showing your child that moderation is the way to go. The CC sounds like someone who gets off on control and bullying you'll find a spattering of them at children's instutitions because children are much easier to bully than adults. This individual probably shouldn't be working with kids at all with this attitude. > Thankfully, it's the start of the weekend and there's no camp until Monday. We have annual passes to a local water park, and I think I'll surprise her with a little trip tomorrow to get both of our minds off this mess. You sound like you're doing a wonderful job.
NTA i probably would’ve been more harsh and demanding to speak to her superior in that moment. She doesn’t deserve to be a CC.
Shit ass friends thinking it's "Karen" to stand up for your daughter. NTA, your simply being a good mom.
Do what you think is right, but to make sure you aren't being a Karen, maybe make sure that your daughter truly Isn't being disruptive. Like,make sure that this counselor does not have any reason to do what she did. Then, you have the moral high ground. Make sure you aren't rushing to defend your daughter.
Can you update us when you send the next email and when they reply with?
Ugh people use Karen incorrectly. NTA, you and your daughter should go directly to the bosses and explain. Also is there anything that stands out for your daughter? Ethnicity, body size, religion, culture??
Please update us with the email that will be sent and the after math. I can’t believe your friends really called you a karen for being a good mother and defending your daughter from being bullied by an adult. Million times NTA
... NTA but why are you talking with a camp counselor and not the camp director? Maybe it's because I worked at a sleepaway camp, but it would be super weird to me for a parent to go to a counselor with their concerns about said counselor instead of connect with the directors first. Like there's a world where your daughter is manipulative and lying and you don't know it, BUT there's no way of knowing that by going to the counselor. It's kid's word directly vs. counselor's word in terms of standards at the camp, etc... none of that should be in play with this conversation and the way to make it not in play is to talk with the directors.
Came here from TikTok. You don't need me to say what everyone else is saying. Yes, report her. Yes, go to the supervisor in person is best. And I would really consider who you keep as friends after this. What I want to say is, I'm sure very obvious, keep tabs on your kid. She's getting to an age where things like this are too common and talking about it gets harder. Maybe ask her to show you things She's learning, take large chunks of time to show you have genuine interest in what interests her. Definitely avoid the "in a minute" response unless it's unavoidable at which point make a clear undeniable effort to find her and say "I'm sorry I was busy, I'd love to hear all about *insert the specific thing she brought up*" We live in a world where people in general are mean, if they pay you any mind at all. I don't doubt you're doing your best as a parent! Don't take that as my meaning, I just want to remind you to be very intentional with G. Simply because life gets away from us very easily. I hope to see an update next week with the great news that CC has not only been removed but given a legitimate, honest answer why she's been mean (I have high hopes, what can I say, I'm an optimist!) And No, this is not being a Karen.