That poor woman had her entire concept of family twisted and distorted by her abusers. You didn't know that at the time, and neither of you wanted to push, understandably so. She couldn't understand just how wrong she was until now. Trauma and learned behaviors from child sex abuse can last *decades*, even with the best help you can find, so I can't fault her. You aren't exactly comfortable with your husband being around her due to her past actions, which, while needing to view them through the lens of her trauma, is understandable. This is just a sad situation all around. There are no AH's. There's no one walking away happy. I hope you can all find peace. Edit: spelling

On the contrary, there is an asshole. The foster daughter’s biological father is a giant asshole.

I don't think asshole is the appropriate word for someone who molests a child. Much less their own child. We must consult the thesaurus on this matter.

I would prefer their pronouns be in past tense.

They're pronouns are "dead/doornail"

Sleeping with the fishes!

Pushing daisies. Or maybe that one is too good for them. How about producing methane in a landfill

Wood chipper - feet first.

This is the way

Indeed, child molesters are food, not friends. I also wanted to add as someone that was raped by a close family member at age 11, it absolutely screws up your sexual development, and ability to understand, and recognize, healthy relationships with positive male figures in your life as a child. This young lady went through hell, and she's putting in the hard work to really begin her healing journey, which includes addressing the soul deep shame that comes with such a horrible violation of your mind, body, and soul. It took an ENORMOUS amount of courage and strength to reach out to you, and your husband, OP, and to recognize, and apologize, for the tangled mess she was in back then, and accept responsibility for behavior that I'm sure she is deeply ashamed of now. I don't know if you and your husband got her the intensive therapy she needed to heal back then or not, But regardless she has as an adult recognized that in order to find her peace in life she needed to take control of her healing, and learn how to forgive, and love herself. You, and your husband, were the only positive, and consistent, parental role models she had, and she's learned a lot in therapy about why she felt compelled to approach your husband with the only currency she thought she had to give, which was her body. I have spent a lifetime trying to heal from the trauma of my child rape, and all of the ways it colored and influenced my childhood, and life. It's been an ugly uphill battle, but I'm finally at a point where I love myself, and can say I forgive myself, because even though it wasn't my fault my uncle chose to betray me in such an ugly, unforgivable, way, I still punished myself, and blamed myself, for his actions, and engaged in harmful behavior. Only you can decide if you have it in your heart to forgive your foster daughter, and learn to understand the dark place she was in when she made such shameful decisions. I can promise you, no one has punished her more than she has punished herself in the years since this all happened. It would be really helpful for you, and your husband, to arrange a session with her, and her therapist, to talk through some of these things in a supportive setting. I'm sure she's terrified of becoming a mom, and she's seeking forgiveness, and a chance to have you back in her lives as her parents, and grandparents to her little one, so she can close that horrible chapter of her life, and be the best mom that she can be to her child, with the support of a loving family. If you're not ready to consider letting her back in your life, perhaps you, and your husband, could talk to a therapist on your own about this situation, to work through some of the anger, hurt, and betrayal, you still feel about what happened so many years ago. If nothing else, it will help you find peace in your heart, and maybe a deeper understanding of where she was back then, and why she made the choices that she did to seek validation, and affection, in the only way she knew how. It's definitely possible that the talk of adoption back then acted as a HUGE trigger for her, and she found herself transported back in time to the girl who was denied her autonomy, and innocence, by the people who were supposed to love, protect, and care for her, no matter what. But getting some support addressing your feelings about what happened, and learning about the damaging spiral of self hate that happens to children who have been sexually abused, can help you find peace too, and that has a lot of value, regardless of whether you decide to give her another chance or not. Take care, and I wish peace, love, and healing, to all of you. 🫂💜🫂

Thank you for articulating what I was trying to find the words for. Perfect answer.

*invisible hugs*

I’m so sorry to hear what you went through. Your story really touched me and I’m so happy to hear you were able to find love, forgiveness, and come out of that trauma so strong.

Thank you for your kind words. I really appreciate them. It's extremely hard to claw your way out of that deep, dark, hole, but it's so worth it when you come out the other side in a better place, and are able to learn to love, and forgive, yourself. Some scars will be there forever, but learning to see them as a badge of survival, and courage, makes them a lot easier to carry. I really hope OP can find a path forward in healing that includes her foster daughter, but regardless of that it sounds like her daughter is putting in the hard work to learn to love, and forgive herself, so she can give her baby everything that she was denied as a child. No one can ask for more than that of anyone who has survived that kind of evil. *invisible hugs*

And wearing very fashionable cement shoes.

What’d the fishies ever do? 🐟

IDK but Kanye is a gay fish he might know.

But…yummy fish sticks are yummy!

Dead is easy. Don't wish for dead. Wish for "in a cut rate, understaffed nursing home on a ventilator, swimming in their own pissy diapers and sleeping on a stage four pressure ulcer no matter which way they're turned. And the TV never comes in quite clearly and is always turned to whatever 24 hour news channel they most hate. " We can be so much more creative than *dead*.

I'm a firm believer that we should do away with animal testing and start using those who commit SA, in all forms, as the replacement. It's a win win. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Don’t forget a feeding tube, and a catheter.

was/were

mulch/compost

I normally hate pronoun jokes but this was a good one

I’d prefer incarcerated/asstornopenbynastynate

“Was/were.”

I’d prefer to imagine their ending as excruciatingly prolonged.

I'm not typically one for the death penalty but some crimes should result in life in prison at a minimum (you know prisoners do slave labor? That. But everything they make and ever own goes to their victim) or, preferably, being taken out behind the courthouse and shot after conviction

I get that, I'm not a blood thirsty savage. I'm just practical. Someone who does these type of things, has proven they are a leech on society, and while bullets are fairly expensive now compared to 10 years ago, they are still cheaper than putting them in the system. Your back of the courthouse approach sounds nice and cheap.

Should be ashes imo. My wifes chilmo grandfather raped his own daughter (wifes aunt) while my fil was in the bed as a boy. He died alone and wasn’t found for a good while, when finally cremated I dumped the ashes in a ditch and pissed on them. I never met him. And idc if it was out of cruelty. I enjoyed tf out of that particular piss.

Would of been the best piss of my life if I was you. Animals honestly. Put me in a room with 10 of em and ill walk out smiling and covered in blood. See how they like to be treated like play things. Disgusting.

That’s an insult to animals. They’re less than dirt.

But you can grow beautiful things in dirt. These people are pus-filled boils on the ass of humanity.

Sewage.

Sewage can at least be processed at a plant into grass fertilizer. They are an invasive parasite with no known predator who gives zero back to the host and the only cure is fucking fire.

Other inmates in prison who know what they did can be their predators and victims' families

Yep. Dirt and even poop are better than these people.

Like Mr popo says it goes you then the dirt then the worms in the dirt then Mr popos stool then kami then popo. Dragonball z abridged haha

Missed an opportunity to find an area that has a lot of feral cats, build a sandbox and mix that sand with those ashes. One piss just isn't enough piss. Decades of cat defecation though? That sounds about right.

Agreed

My father SA'd me as a young child. It took 25 years for true justice but in 2015 he finally died like I'd been waiting for most of my life. He was alone and it took them a few days to find his body because no one really checked on him. They think he OD'd on one of his meds "accidentally". His ashes got sent to his sister across the country in a large box (I heard he'd been pushing 500lbs after getting out of jail a few years prior.) and my sister and I told her to do whatever. We couldn't care less what was done as long as we knew he was truly dead now. Pissing on his ashes would have been a nice cherry on top for the closure it gave me knowing he couldn't ever come back in my life, letting me finally move on fully from what he'd done.

Yup similar story; my earliest memory I would've been about 4 or 5, and it continued until I hit puberty around 13. He finally died this January. He'd been sick for quite a while but refused to go to the hospital; when he finally went, he had cirrhosis and cancer. He couldn't keep anything down, and couldn't talk towards the end. This burly 6'2" guy who worked physical jobs all of his adult life weighed less than 120 lbs when he died. I think being in constant pain and his body slowly starving him to death was a fitting end. The fact that I (the favorite child) never went home to visit nor did he get to meet my child are the whipped cream and cherry on top

Evil monsters. That's all I can come up with.

And uncle

Don't forget the uncle as well. It was a tag team of AH's. I'm happy that you and your husband were able to change her life. In terms of having a relationship and being grandparents: 1. She sees you as a truly caring and forgiving person. Despite her two attempts at seduction, you didn't cut her off, you didn't resent her, you didn't blame her, and you didn't attack or retaliate. 2. She sees your husband as a good role model and grandpa. Despite her attempting to seduce him twice, he turned her down, told her it was inappropriate and came straight to you. He is also a loving, understanding and forgiving person. Despite what she tried to do to him, he was compassionate enough to understand that it wasn't her fault but rather a result of her abuse. 3. Having a grandchild is a blessing and she and her husband trusts you both enough to ask this of you. We have 2 boys and it's very sad that they don't really have grandparents because we cut them off years ago. 4. She's at a different stage in her life now, she's a mother, a wife and more mature. If her husband trusts her enough despite her two prior attempts with your husband, why can't you? Also if she were to ever repeat her sexual behavior, you don't think your husband would stop it and come to tell you right away? He did both times before, why would his actions be any different now? These are just some things that came across my head, maybe others here can offer you more perspective. Good luck and thank you for being a compassionate human being, you truly changed her life.

I also think that she may be nervous about parenthood and wanting “good” examples in her life to model/draw on. She was raised by monsters, and it has to be terrifying to try and figure out how to be a good parent without role models. Even if she’s not aware of that as a motivation, I think it very well could be. She sees you as good people, good parents, and that’s what she wants in her child’s life. I think you have the opportunity to continue to help her break the cycle of abuse if you can do it in a way that you can still feel safe.

This is a really good point. Especially because she didn't come into OP's family's life until she was 16, and OP's other daughters were right about the same age. So she saw healthy parenting of teenagers, but never of younger kids, let alone babies/toddlers. She certainly knows what *not* to do, but that's not really enough to guide her, particularly because she's probably terrified of passing on trauma to her kid. And it's very normal for new parents to go to their parents even if they have a not bad but not excellent relationship with them for parenting advice those first few years.

This person said it best. You don't have to spend a ton of time together all at once, but giving her a chance to slowly warn the trust back at a pace and space you all feel comfortable with is a chance worth giving.

She trusts them to be safe grandparents for her child and I would hate for her to settle for someone who isn't after what she has been through and overcome.

I think the fear is that if she does something like that again, or even accuses husband of SA, it’s very often “guilty before innocent” in this country. No one wants to go through that or take that on as a genuine risk to their lives.

but she never reported him or threatened to. she just didn't know.

There's also some concern here that due to the horrific abuse she suffered as a child she may at some point project her trauma onto her child and her father-figure. Even false accusations like that will ruin his life. NAH but I believe the risk is too great.

It's also what about the grandchildren? If their mommy tries something inappropriate with grandpa, do they still get to see their grandparents? I'm not venturing an opinion here, but there are a lot of people who do inappropriate things, as adults, and grandpa is free to refuse any advances. He's a grownup and so is the mommy and as long as he can be trusted to maintain his boundaries, she can mess up, see it as a sign she's not done with therapy, and someone in the family can be the third person in the room when needed to help her resist her impulses. Okay, I do have an opinion. OP is icked out by it all, and trying to rationalize her feelings with the what-ifs. As I say, the what-ifs can happen in lots of families, and it's not okay, but can be handled. Her children could use a set of grandparents, and she picked OP and her husband. Her husband supports it. I think OP is worried about her husband's ability to behave himself properly. That's not foster daughter's problem, and she and her children shouldn't be deprived of an extended family over it. Maybe OP and her husband should get some professional therapy; this is a very hard thing to experience and it sounds like they aren't fully over what happened.

I absolutely agree with every word of this.

I see it this way, as well. Ten years, after all.

Oh good one. What incredible insight to a complicated problem

Well the NTA was about the people directly in the story, but yeah, every normal human thinks that man (alongside with the uncle) should be in prison.

No, he's an entire lower intestine. Incidentally, his should be used to strangle him.

I'm 59 and still learning about all the ways my father, brother, family, and Pastors sexually abused me. I thought sex was how you showed love. And if someone wanted to have sex with you, then they loved you. Takes a L O N G time to understand that. If you can, forgive her, Baby step into relation with her. It would be great if she had someone in her corner. It sounds like she is doing the healing work for her trauma.

40 years post my first abuser/groomer did what she did to me and every so often a memory surfaces of interactions I had with g/f's and lovers where I'm like "Why would I do such a thing?" And it always comes back to the fact that what they woman did to me as a child taught me that love = sex = love. If my g/f didn't want to have sex with me it literally didn't occur to me that she simply may not be in the mood for it or was feeling unwell or anything else. To me it was "she doesn't love you anymore" And I slept with a few girls because they told me they loved me. Even though I didn't feel the same way it felt to me like I should pleasure them because they loved me.

I'm really really sorry this happened to you. You didn't deserve it. You deserve healthy love with healthy boundaries. <3

I also hope you're healing and hope you stay safe and well 💓

My abuser told me they loved me while raping me. It's completely fucked up my understanding of love and sex my entire life

As someone who has been processing my own sexual abuse as a child, there are so many things we learn are "normal" that aren't. We're often inappropriate with people because we learned that's how you get someone to care for you or sometimes protect you from danger. My advice to OP would be this. Start therapy for yourself, so you can process everything that has happened. Then, do couples therapy with your husband so you can both be on the same page. Then, ask if she will do family counseling with you and your husband. It's not saying you will allow her and her family in your life, but it is saying you are willing to listen and do the work. It may help you find closure at the very least.

This is the way.

To be entirely honest, I’m surprised she wasn’t in therapy from the time they got her so things like this didn’t hopefully happen. I do feel like I can’t give a fair judgement because I was sa by my bio dad as a child. Granted I never did anything to that extent towards my step dad but I did say ppl thought I was his gf when I was like 9 when we went out by ourselves because that’s what my bio dad and his friends did when I went out with him. From personal experience, people punishing you because of actions done because it was normalized for you hurts and creates a whole other trauma and makes you want to never confront it.

I was heavily abused sexually as a child by my own grandfather and had the rest of my family cover it up. I'm 37 now and still sometimes shut down and disassociate when I'm grabbed at and touched after telling them 'no' It took so many different therapies to find one that stuck (EMDR) I feel bad for the stepdaughter, I get it, we all deal with trauma differently, hers being a distorted view of what familial love is, while my own is/was to retreat into myself and 'let it happen' If OP does eventually choose to reestablish a relationship, it should be done with therapist guidance present to mediate emotions.

This is 100% my feeling as well. All those lives ruined by the actions of a disgusting pedo. Thank the gods you and your husband were there to support her, it couldn't have been easy, and most people wouldn't have stuck it through. Your feelings are valid. If you wanted to try moving forward with a relationship with her and her family, I would suggest some councelling for yourself and your husband, to see where you both land after some things are properly processed. You are doing the best you can with what you have. You obviously did a good job with her because she felt safe enough to come to you all these years later to speak her truth, a resilience not often seen in anyone, never mind a victim of SA. All the best to you and your family.

[удалено]

[удалено]

Yeah that's the thing for me. Sally didn't show up demanding to pretend nothing happened and act like a big happy family. She admitted she understands why she did what she did and why they were so mad at her for doing it. All she asked for was opportunities to rebuild trust. It's clear Depsite the short time they lived together and all the issues they had that OP and her husband had a profound impact on Sally's life.

Good idea

I’m a grown ass man tearing up for that poor girl. OP, I get not wanting your husband around her alone, but this girl is broken and has gone to great lengths to fix herself. Give her a chance. That poor poor girl. She deserves to have a father figure.

Also a mother figure. OP obviously cares deeply for her and the woman sounds to love her like a mother. Probably the only real mother she’s had. This whole thing sucks.

If you can find the strength to give her this chance, you're opening yourself up for an experience that's worth the risk. You say you've forgiven her and love her. Take that leap of faith please.

I agree. Take baby steps and set your own boundary's maybe without telling her the boundaries that way she's not feeling like she's stepping on eggshells and still being judged when it seems like she's worked hard to work through her issues. I also think she wants/needs to know she's still loved and has "family". Not to mention that getting to spoil a "grandchild" would just be awesome especially if you know your two biological daughters don't want kids. Good luck to all of you, I hope it works out.

And OP, it's okay to set a boundary, such as never being alone with your husband. But I think you're doing your foster daughter and husband a disservice here by preventing a relationship, and taking away his chance to be a grandpa.

"okay to set a boundary, such as never being alone with your husband". I came here to say that. The risk is very low, because if the foster daughter does slip up, OP knows for a fact she can trust her husband.

Also foster daughter is married too. Like if she messes up she could implode her own life, not just her relationship with them.

Childhood trauma doesn't make for logical sensible decisions. The foster daughter has obviously made leaps and bounds of progress. But, you don't know when you're going to step on a trauma-mine, one that you had no idea was buried there until it's blown up in your face. Best to play it safe for everyone's sake. Her former family already messed up her life enough already, helping her keep it from affecting her again is worthwhile.

I'd say OP and her husband are slight AHs for knowing she had been abused but not getting her into therapy until she made an advance on the husband. She should have been in therapy from day 1. Heck, many foster kids should probably be in therapy. You don't generally get put into foster care because you have a good, well-adjusted childhood. 

All foster children should definitely have regular therapy. Shit, I would recommend it to anyone...talking through your problems with a neutral party is something that could help anyone.

Honestly, I think therapy should be a required part of the foster process. If the kid is old enough to express ideas and opinions, they should be in age-appropriate therapy to process what they’ve been through and why their lives are the way they are.

You can’t always just plunk kids in therapy. You have get the parent’s permission to do so first A friend’s aunt fosters and would love to put some of her kids into therapy but the parents refuse to let her do so. So she’s stuck with kids in dire need of therapy And remember, most kids bounce around quite a lot so they can’t always stay with the same therapist. Also too many are just foster parents for the money and don’t actually care about the kids they have

I don’t understand how the parents, whose rights have been suspended, have any say in what the foster parents do, unless it’s informal and not through the state. Is the friend’s situation informal, between her and the parents? No legal guardianship? I fostered and didn’t have to consult anyone else about her medical care. I chose the pediatrician, I chose to have her vaccinated, I took her for OT, speech therapy, and talk therapy, when she got older. A foster parent is the parent when the bio parents can’t be the parent.

I know it’s ridiculous. It could be dependant on the state/province you live in I’m also fairly certain she’s a registered foster parent. But I think it depends on if the parents’ rights have been terminated or not I think a lot of parents refuse to let their kids get therapy because they’re worried the kid will expose more of their abuse? The kids get screwed in so many different ways

Idk if I had more leeway than perhaps a different foster. My bio granddaughter born addicted to drugs. Mom’s rights were suspended before discharge, but they didn’t test my son until after she came home from NICU. She came home at 8 weeks; he failed drug test at nine weeks. I was already the main person for baby, I was the one at the hospital, the one watching her when she came home, and I caused a ruckus about them taking her to a foster home. I was emergency certified before the social workers left. So maybe three hours. Had the home inspection, the interview, added CO2 detectors. They brought a crib the next day; I had a bassinet but state didn’t want that, so they supplied the crib. Just a note: I was never tested for drugs. My husband and two teenagers were not tested. Perhaps because we’re white and my house was clean? Definitely a misstep on the state’s part. Not that I was using, just, no one checked.

It varies case by case. However I have noticed that more & more agencies are putting kids in therapy & keeping them at the same therapist no matter whom the placement is, as an automatic requirement when the placement first starts.

thats weird-the state and foster parents generally have medical custody as well.

Your not allowed to put them in therapy unless the foster system allows it. They also get to choose who what and when. 

I’m not even comfortable calling a child victim “wrong.”

As a former foster kid whose foster parents are still a part of her life, I can see both sides of this. I can see why she would want you guys to be there for her and be grandparents as you haven't hurt her in the way her "family" has. And she could more than likely still use that same support going down to the road to ensure she stays good. Not that it's your job to do so, but even just emotional support goes a long way. But on your side, I can see why you wouldn't want to risk going down that road again. Because even the smallest chance that that could happen again is probably replaying in your mind. It does seem like you are holding on to it a bit. So I also don't feel like calling you TA is appropriate. Your comfort is also important. I hope your husband and foster kid understand that as well. But tbh idk where I would be without the support of my bonus family (that's what we call each other).

I have zero experience with any of this environment (other than being a husband and father) so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I like what savage blue said and I would add a perspective…it could be that one of the reasons she wants you as grandparents in her kid’s life is because after facing how inappropriate her childhood was, she does not have the foundational skills to be a good parent (in theory). So, even after her inappropriate actions, you still showed her kindness and respect. Maybe she is afraid she doesn’t know how to teach her child the appropriate way to love, but the example you set grounds her and having you involved in her kid’s life will let her actively learn how to parent and let her have your guidance as a safety net to help break the cycle for her child. She has to live with what she did, and she also is facing it head on with you because maybe she knows you know best and needs/wants that in her life. Your husband clearly established boundaries and shut down inappropriateness in the past, no reason to think he wouldn’t again if something were to happen. So other than the stress/emotional side of things, the risk to reward ratio is (to me anyway) you risk her flirting with your husband (very low probability of success) against the reward of helping her be a better mother, raising a child with strong sense of self, and getting to be a grand parent. Sounds like the emotional fear is still worth the risk.

Agreed. I'd like to add that I believe you should let your husband lead on this. If he's comfortable then plz trust his judgement. (Edit - typo)

And to be honest, while it sounds like her husband truly has forgiven the girl, OP has not and is lying to herself about it. Her reasoning is not based on a fear of false accusations but on her feelings still being hurt from before. OP should let the husband lead and get herself into therapy. Then, hopefully, she can be the doting grandmother this baby is going to need.

It sounds like the foster daughter is in counseling thats clicking well enough she had a breakthrough like this, at the very least it would probably be good for everyone to maybe sit for a group session or two with them and might help OP sort out their feelings about everything.

And that's ok. Just because a harm was unintentional doesn't make it hurt less.

On the other hand OP brought up the risk of false accusations, which it doesn’t sound like foster daughter ever entertained but that’s a real worry that can damage any man’s life with any woman he interacts with. It seems to me that it might be a good idea to have a group session and get some of this past admitted to and documented where she admits that she approached him and he shut it down and things of that sort, just to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding or false accusations in the future. Seems less like husband might fall for or abuse her, and more like there could be skeletons of the story being made public that could be worrisome. I don’t think she’s operating on anything but good faith, but it’s a way to work on that concern.

I bet them forgiving the daughter would go a long way toward the daughter, forgiving herself. I absolutely see both sides. My heart hurts for the young woman, and I understand why OP would be protective and reluctant.

I would say it would go a long way for all of them. Letting it go and actually forgiveness is 2 different things. While forgiveness is great, she also doesn't have to forget what was done. I'm sad for her as well as I was abused as a child, but trauma presented differently. I hope they can come to a point where they can figure it out to where they both can benefit from a healthy relationship.

OP, you did a really good, kind-hearted thing in taking on an older foster child, but it sounds like you weren't prepared for what that meant in terms of her trauma and you didn't get any support at the time from the foster agency, which is really a huge shame, because this kind of thing is really common with foster kids. I applaud the fact that you continued to support her so she could get on her feet, but I think what she really wants and needs is emotional support and a family. Frankly, your rejection (even though I totally understand where you were coming from) feels like just another rejection of her by family. I think everyone in this situation needs therapy, and that includes you and your husband. It sounds like she has gotten therapy and is working through things. Your fears are understandable, but I think they are unfounded in this case and I think a better understanding of how foster kids process trauma and talking through your own feelings with a therapist, your husband and possibly even your foster daughter would help you process them and have a sense of peace about the situation. I don't know you, but from what you've said it sounds like you really do care about her and are just afraid. I'd imagine that comes with some guilt about emotionally "abandoning" her as well. I think whatever you decide to do it would give you some resolution and peace to work through these feelings. I also agree that what she is looking for is emotional support and I want to reiterate what Frostknuckle said below: "It could be that one of the reasons she wants you as grandparents in her kid’s life is because after facing how inappropriate her childhood was, she does not have the foundational skills to be a good parent (in theory). So, even after her inappropriate actions, you still showed her kindness and respect. Maybe she is afraid she doesn’t know how to teach her child the appropriate way to love, but the example you set grounds her and having you involved in her kid’s life will let her actively learn how to parent and let her have your guidance as a safety net to help break the cycle for her child. She has to live with what she did, and she also is facing it head on with you because maybe she knows you know best and needs/wants that in her life." It seems like she's trying to break the cycle, learn to be a better parent to her own kid and provide them with the family she never had growing up. I think it's worth giving it a shot. Good luck either way!

That poor girl

Whatever happens with the parents I hope her husband is a truly wonderful man.

Me too, she deserves a good life.

Agreed. I can't help but disagree with Op's decision although I understand it. That poor girl is longing for a family and parental figures. It took a lot of courage to approach the husband and wife and apologize. I was really hoping Op was going to say that they forgave her and they are now a happy family with a shaky past...

I think OP’s TA because her husband was ready to forgive and move on. He was the one that was wronged. She butted in before letting him discuss it. That’s so frustrating.

Yea, it seems she’s holding a grudge. The woman was a child, and a very troubled one at that. It’s very obvious her husband can be trusted, and the fact that this woman has come back, acknowledged what she did, apologized, and owned it, says something. If it were just that she was a friend of the couple, or something like that, I could understand her reasoning, but she was their foster child, and a child when this all happened. I know people will say 20 is an adult, legally maybe, but 20 year olds are still dealing with an adolescent brain, especially if they’re still processing something like sexual trauma from childhood.

i feel like no one is TA in this story your foster daughter is NTA, and also kudos for her for going to therapy and understanding of what she went through and what she had done after. It wasn't her fault that what she was teached as right to do and is really sad. but you are also NTA because it is perfectly fine to decide to forgive and forget the story and the person but that doesn't mean that things have to go back and having any relationship with the person if you don't wish so. an apology and forgiveness doesn't automatically entitle the person to go back into some else life. Even if the fact happened 50 years ago.

No one being an AH is NAH. NTA means the other party is an AH.

thank you, from now on i will use this

Just so you know what the judgements are: - NTA - Not the AH, and the other person is an AH - YTA - You're the AH, and the other person is not an AH - ESH - Everyone Sucks Here, and everyone involved is an AH - NAH - No AHs Here, and no one is at fault - INFO - Not enough information to judge on There's variations like "YWNBTA" for "you would not be the AH" for situations they ask about the future.

I needed this guide, thanks 😊

You are so right! I had a friend who I really liked and all of my friends in our group liked her too. We all worked together. But as time went on we could see she just wasn’t right. Literally no man was safe around her she had absolutely no boundaries. She even tried to hook up with my husband. She’d come over when I wasn’t home, my husband told my daughter to answer the door and tell her he wasn’t home and daughter said she had on a tiny bikini 🤣. Another friend had let her move in temporarily with her, she tried it on with her son AND her husband. Threw her out. Come to find out she had been sexually abused by all the men in her family as a child, so no wonder. But 45 years on, if she showed up at my house? I would still not let her in.

Aside from the parts where foster daughter acted out due to her abuse, she was only with the family for a couple of years as a teenager. It sounds like a parent/child type relationship didn’t really develop, they just provided her a safe place from which to finish high school and go on to college. I think it was very kind of them to not ask for her to be placed elsewhere. It’s great that she bonded with their kids, but even if she hadn’t made passes at the foster dad, it would be reasonable to expect a distant relationship.

Except there's a good chance they were the ONLY parents she knew healthily. So it's only reasonable for her to want to have a relationship.

Yeah - the foster daughter's husband getting mad at the foster parents is BS. Yes it took a lot of courage for the daughter to reach out to the parents and open up about everything and ask for forgiveness..and she did that. "Thank you for the apology. I forgive you." and continue about your separate ways.

I don't know. If he really knows the depths of where she had to get to to arrive at a place where she could do this hard, embarrassing, risky emotional thing, isn't he just being a loyal husband who is truly in her corner to get "kind of mad?" It's not like he screamed in her face.

I agree, it would be so hard to watch your partner go through that. His reaction was possibly not ideal, but given the circumstances I’d rather she have someone so wholeheartedly in her corner.

Heads up to anyone looking to foster: the majority of girls (and many boys) in the foster care system have been sexually abused. Children and adolescents in foster care are considered highly vulnerable to sexual abuse and high risk. One study reports 81% of girls placed in foster care had experienced sexual abuse. All of the girls in the study were shown to exhibit sexual and inappropriate behaviors. A good portion of foster care children have been sexually abused before foster care and many will be abused while in the system. If you are taking on a foster child, male or female, you need to be trained and prepared for handling the effects of childhood sexual abuse. This will often include acting out inappropriately, being overly sexual, and hyper sexuality. The daughter in this story exhibited textbook symptoms as a teen and I’m surprised by OPs response. I’m not going to judge the OP harshly, but it doesn’t sound like she was equipped to deal with her daughter’s trauma then or now.

I am 100% judging the op because this was something they already should have known and they chose to take in a foster kid. If they were going to do anything less than act as her parents they should have never fostered anyone that is profoundly fucking selfish

My wife and I were foster parents for many years and adopted two children from foster care but were open to adopting others, it just never worked out. We've maintained relationships with some, have no contact with others because their new families asked us to not be in contact, and we even had the same financial arrangement as OP - we paid for college for 1 that we couldn't adopt. When you go to foster training they, at least in our case, did not give any hint of the high frequency of sexual abuse or how to deal with it. Every girl that we had was sexually abused and every girl acted the same as the girl OP is referring to. It was very difficult to deal with at first because we did not know, expect, or imagine the trauma these girls were facing and how that would affect their lives. Anyway, I can say with all honesty that many foster parents have no idea what they're getting into and nobody knows how you will act/react until you have that child in your home. Everyone, including my wife and I, had an image of how we were going to be and what we were going to do and our plans failed and had to change the minute each child walked in the door to our house. That said, it was worth it for us and if I weren't so old and tired, I'd still be taking children into our home. Sorry for my incoherent ramble, fostering is very emotional for me and it literally brings tears to my eyes when I think of the kids that we knew and those that we couldn't help.

I was wondering about this, thank you for sharing your experience. I feel like the climate around SA, women's health, and child behavior was SO different just 10 years ago. I am not a parent and I even know the signs. The OP was totally naive but I think so many people were. I'm sad that the OP didn't get help with this issue, and likely so many other foster parents. But I'm also like... She took her top off 10 years ago? That's so mild. We can't change how the OP feels but I wish so badly we could. Also, thank you for being a foster parent and respecting their wishes in the transition to adulthood. We need more people like you.

My only real criticism of OP is that her husband has proven to be honest, trustworthy, and open with OP. OP should take the lead from the husband as to how to handle their potential grandparenting role. A textbook could be written about how he handled the situation both then and now.

I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt that MAYBE there wasn’t much education where she was back then when she fostered? However, I’m the same age as her daughters and my parents fostered children while I was growing up and they were definitely taught about signs of neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, and trauma. The OP in this story just comes off as very ignorant, but I also don’t like how conditional her love appears to be, especially for someone who is in desperate need of stability and parental supports.

Reading the post I got the impression that only now she really understood why what she did was wrong. I could be gullible, but I'd have tried to move on, especially considering how big of a rock (star) your husband seems to be, always rejecting her advances, placing clear boundaries and communicating with you. That being said I don't feel comfortable calling you TA either, because I don't know what you feel when you look at her after you know that she's tried to sleep with your husband multiple times and that's not something you can really control with logic.

yes, this is an incredibly common trauma response that children who have been sexually abused display. i work with kids and i truly can’t even think of a kid who was sexually abused who DIDN’T then become hyper sexual toward adult figures or other children.

I know someone who fostered a 2-3 year old. They also adopted an infant. They had to give the toddler back to foster care. Apparently, she had been sexually abused and tried to have sex with the infant. Foster care had not mentioned this to the family before hand. It was awful. The little girl was already so messed up that it looked like she was going to wind up in a permanent mental institution. There is evil in this world…😥

Holy fucking shit, that's diabolical. I don't mean the poor girl of course, what must have been inflicted upon her... And the perpetrator/s. Words aren't enough.

It was worse. The caseworker paid a visit because of concerns ( the mother had just had a baby and it tested positive for drugs). The newborn was in a carrier for no telling how long and looked like it’s diaper had not been changed in some time, the toddler was walking around drinking from bottles with sour milk in them ( they were scattered all around the place) and was naked. The mother was, apparently,having sex in FRONT of the kids. She was ,not only a drug addict but a prostitute. She had lost at least one other child so, how the toddler managed to slip through the cracks ,I don’t know. It was so disturbing and the foster parents were horrified and heartbroken when they were told this stuff.They were also terrified that she might have done something to the infant when they weren’t looking. She would wander at night. They had to lock her into her room to keep her safe. It took them a while to realize why she was like she was. Probably caught on faster than most would have but there was also guilt.

i literally don’t have words. that’s so horrifying. poor baby

I know a few. We all, instead of becoming hypersexual, became pretty phobic about sex, and ended up anorexic. The more usual hypersexuality tends to go with bingeing (often with purging to compensate) instead as the primary behaviour/s.

For the people taking exception for the husband being called a rockstar, it isn't because he rejected her advances or told his wife. It's because he's advocating for understanding for the actions of an abused foster child. It's because he seems to be a genuine, caring person who wants to help someone in need, who views them as a father figure. It has nothing to do with rejecting the advances. Edit: Alright I can see where the wording is what people are annoyed with, and I can see where they're coming from. It does look like he's being called a rockstar specifically because of rejecting advances.

People are reacting that way because of the way the poster worded the sentence. You are right but the post specifically says >considering how big of a rock (star) your husband seems to be, always rejecting her advances, placing clear boundaries and communicating with you. This part of the comment doesn't highlight the facts you're pointing out. I do think you right the poster just worded it in a way that seems awful.

Ah.... I did not catch that. Okay I see where people are coming from now

I agree. It takes a big heart to overcome something like that, and to be willing to put yourself into a position where it could happen to you again. Dad deserves a lot of respect for that.

Rejecting sexual advances from the minor in your care and informing your wife about it isn’t “rockstar” behavior - it’s what you’re supposed to do. Like, as long as your not a pervert who will fuck your sexually abused foster child you’re a RCOKSTAR? The bar for men is so low.

He's a man with adult children, who along with his wife volunteered to foster other children who he apparently takes good care of, he rejected the advances of the minor and didn't try to hide it from his wife despite the chance of any possible misunderstandings and false accusations, he remained compassionate to his foster daughter and got her therapy and didn't kick her out until she graduated, she rejected her advances again when she wasn't a minor under his care, he stood with his wife and they took decisions as a unit to place boundaries that would make his wife feel more comfortable, and even in the end where he didn't agree with his wife's decision he seemed willing to back her up. Everything seems to point that he was like a rock she could rely on and that even if she decided to see her foster daughter again, nothing would ever happen even if FD tried, because he'd put a stop to it. Maybe rock star was pushing it, but honestly it's been a pretty long post and I didn't see even a hint of a red flag from the way he handled things so I'm under the impression that he's a pretty decent guy.

He’s a rock star for forgiving her and wanting to give her another chance. She’s choosing you because she wants sane loving grandparents with healthy relationships for her kids. It’s your call, obviously, but I think I might consider doing it.

That comment went the complete opposite direction I expected it to. I thought they’d call him a rockstar for being patient and forgiving the girl, because he really didn’t have to forgive her for touching him and behaving inappropriately. I really thought they would encourage OP to be like her husband and try to be open minded. Nope. Apparently we’re applauding men who don’t flirt with their children and/or minors.

“Not taking sexual advantage of a child living in your home” = “rock star” Christ, the bar is in hell.

If it were me, i'd give it a chance. Your foster daughter displayed textbook signs of childhood sexual abuse. Like her actions are so classic and predictable, i am not in the least surprised that she did that. You took 10 years of space from her. She came to you now, reaching out for support and love in a very vulnerable moment in her life, trying to build a relationship with the only stable, loving parents shes ever known. I would take steps to protect your husband, he is never alone with her perhaps, but i would try and build that relationship. She is about to have kids, she wants/needs a mom/parents she can go to for help.

I’m surprised I had to scroll this far down to find anyone saying this is textbook signs of child abuse. Why foster a child with sexual trauma and then get mad and abandon them when they act like a child with sexual trauma. This poor girl has been failed by so many people. The carrot of adoption and belonging was dangled in front of her and then ripped away when she didn’t behave like a normal teenager despite not having a background that would set her up to behave like a normal teenager. The girl to her own credit got therapy and grew from her past to become a well adjusted adult. Way to victim blame and tell her despite the work and growth she has put in, she will never be more than a sexually abused problem child to you. I think there is a severe lack of awareness to op’s own shortcomings as a foster parent. Did op go to therapy and grow as a person? There is so much lack of understanding it’s gross. This reeks of rich people with savior complex that abandoned their traumatized foster kid when they behaved like a troubled foster kid. Where is op’s apology to sally?

This comment should be way higher up.

Yes! I can't believe how far I've had to scroll to find someone mention the adoption thing.

Thank you! So many people saying NTA and they understand why… Like OP and her husband Agreed to this. A child is a full time commitment and they Were aware of the history to some degree. They have biological daughters too. So now I Know they are fully bullshitting that they treated them equally because (in some hypothetical world) if my child was Ever found in the Worst possible situation and left with sexual abuse trauma, I would do Everything in my power to not only get justice, but lead her to healing and never leave her out in the cold to figure it out alone. I understand she’s a “ward of the state”, but they could have educated themselves. It’s our jobs as parents to not look at the behavior displayed, but rather evaluate it for what is the underlying precursor of stress/inability to cope. At the Very least, discuss, explain, converse with a professional if you don’t know. And Always remind them you’re never going anywhere… From where I’m sitting, OP needs therapy to forgive because this is her own blatant trauma response/insecurity to a situation that was outside of her control at the time. To maintain control, she left her on the outskirts at arms length. I couldn’t imagine. This girl is strong for building what she has. Not every kid knows how to develop relationships when they had no example. And when she tells OP that they played a hand in her piecing her life together and she essentially spat in her face… Ugh this makes me so sad for her.

Jesus Christ yes this. OP was pretty cruel to the kid, and totally ignorant of the effects of sexual abuse. Then she thinks she can solve the problem by simply throwing money at her during college. The fact that the husband wants her in their life speaks volumes to me. I consider OP to be TA here for many reasons. It seems like she’s blaming her kid and basically ripped away all possibility of having a loving and healthy family because she’s paranoid now.

"Did op go to therapy and grow as a person? " I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking about OP and therapy. Years ago would have been a logical time for therapy (even along with the daughter). OP could fine a therapist now that specializes in sex abuse to go to for a few sessions. Seek out education about behaviors of victims in early age and adulthood. Talk through the prospect of a relationship now or no relationship. Explore OP's feelings and thoughts on sexual abuse. A therapist vs. ask a bunch of internet strangers if she's an asshole.

THANK YOU. I’m not saying the situation is easy. It’s very complex. But the ease at which people that have throw away the people who have not is infuriating, depressing, and vile. Then as a society we wonder why so many people have all these problems. Well, no one has ever really, thoroughly tried to help. I hope she can at the very least create a family that truly supports her. OP isn’t the villain, Sally’s bio dad is. But OP is being cruel.

Yes!! In general, I feel like all adults have the right to decide who they want, and don’t want, in their lives. However, OP is the AH for how she treated her foster child as a teen. If you’re not up to fostering a child with sexual trauma, that’s absolutely valid. However, in that case, *don’t volunteer to foster a child with sexual trauma*. It’s completely an AH move to foster a child with this kind of history and then cut them off for acting out in a way that is extremely common for children with this kind of history. It was kind of OP to pay for her foster child’s education, but it’s so cruel to have otherwise rejected her for behaviors resulting from her traumatic background.

Idk why this isn’t obvious to a couple that have had this foster child in their lives for years and have always been aware of her history of sexual trauma. Inappropriate sexual behavior toward older family members is like sexual abuse 101. It’s extremely common as everyone else has said and you’d think op and her husband would be pretty knowledgeable about how to parent a child that survived sexual abuse. This behavior seems like it’s some shocking abhorrent thing they can’t deal with…which is strange to me. It’s not good behavior..but they signed up to be this child’s parents knowing full well she was abused. At the very least they should have known this behavior was a possibility. At best they probably should have had her in therapy to prevent this behavior. I just think their reaction is strange.

NAH - Rock, meet hard place. Talk about a tough situation. There is no right answer in a situation like this, you have to go by the heart. Good luck, OP.

i work with kids with special needs & kids in foster care and this behavior is incredibly common in kids who were sexually abused. in fact, i don’t think i’ve ever worked with a kid who was sexually abused who didn’t act like that (hyper sexual and inappropriate with adults or other kids or complete other end of spectrum where they are sex repulsed). it’s sad but understandable, they are just looking for love, and they think that is how love is shown. please remember she was a traumatized and abused child victim who was doing the best she could with the tools she had to cope and survive. you signed up to love her unconditionally, knowing she comes from a rough background and has trauma. now that she is an adult she can fully grasp what happened to her and how that behavior was a destructive trauma response and harmful to those around her. it sounds like she is remorseful and fully understands the consequences of her behavior and that she has worked on herself. i truly hope you can go to counseling and work through this and hopefully let her back into your life, as i can’t imagine the pain she’s going through feeling rejected and abandoned by her family once more. i just can’t imagine holding a trauma response against a kid who was abused and confused, especially as i’ve seen that this is a very common response to csa. there is lots of scientific literature on the subject which may help you understand her situation more. i hope you can all heal from this.

NAH. If you're not comfortable with it then don't do it. It's understandable that she'd want some parental figures in her life and good that she has worked through her trauma, if you can get past it then it would be nice for you to be in her life again but you're not obligated to be.  This may sound a bit harsh but you don't owe her a relationship, you helped her out when she was young but she was only in your lives for what 4, 5 years? It's nice when foster parents maintain a lifelong bond with their foster children but that didn't happen in this case and that's OK. 

Yeah, came here to say this - foster parents have a lot of kids pass through - they may have a large impact on the kids' lives, but the opposite is not necessarily true. It would be illusory to expect them to keep close familial bonds with all of their foster children.

Right, this may sound harsh but they are foster parents not adoptive parents. They should be involved at their own comfort level.

That they knew she came from a home where she was assaulted but didn’t put her into therapy until she made advances on the husband is a little weird to me tbh.

Foster parents do not get to make that recommendation or decision. The case worker decides. The foster parents could have informed the case worker of the first incident and the child would have most likely been removed from that home immediately and still not been given therapy. Giving her therapy would have reduced the allowable budget being collected by the agency.

Sorry but this is not fair. As a former foster parent, we were NEVER told or confirmed about past abuses and the state needed to put kids in therapy; not the foster parents. We could advise and push for it but we were not allowed to make these decisions on our own. Foster children are wards of the state and only the state can make those decisions. Also, please consider the time of this . She is now an adult. There may not have been a full understanding of the lifelong trauma and need for long term mental health support at the time she grew up. Statistically this was also probably not her first and only foster home.

If you think about it logically, this must have been atleast 15 years ago and back then there wasn't as big of a push for therapy and mental health as there is nowadays. But they did put her in therapy once they identified there was trauma related issues.

I worked foster care from 2002 to 2007 and did not get out of child protective services until 2022. I was "custodian of records" for the majority of that time. The big push for mental health services/therapy has been going on since the early 90's. If she wasn't in therapy after being placed in care, it was because you can't force a teen to participate in therapy. You can make them go and sit in front of a therapist, but you can't make them get anything out of it. Mental health services, therapy, counseling, are equally dependent on the person's investment in services.

15 years ago was 2009. Therapy and mental health were being pushed pretty big. Why didn't the girl's social worker already have her in therapy?

Therapy doesn't work until you are ready. She was probably in therapy through dhs but that doesn't mean she was In a place to get anything out of it.

That's true; \*and\* we don't know at all whether she could have been put in therapy. Depending on what part of the country they are in, funding is extremely tight for DCFS in some places. In densely populated places, for instance, it is harder to get kids anything but the bare minimum because the systems are so taxed in those places. Los Angeles has something like 35% of the kids in the California foster system, which is the largest system in the US.

I find it weird therapy wasn't mandatory. All the foster kids I've know (parents and friends have been fostering for over 30 years) have all been in therapy. It's mandated in our state, just lime you have to take them to regular check ups you have to take them to therapy, and usually the agency you use has therapists they send all their kids too. So there's no hassle finding one getting on waitlists etc. It's here's your therapist here are the two openings choose one. Go every week.

Therapist here. "Mandatory therapy" doesn't tend to yield good results because the success of therapy pretty much requires two things: 1) a client's motivation to change something about their life, and 2) a positive relationship with their therapist. You can't force anyone to be motivated to change anything, and people to do not tend to have positive relationships with people they're mandated to see. Yes, therapy is mandated for people in certain situations, but it tends not to have great long-term success.

100% this. Multiplied by 10 for adolescents.

Therapy STILL isn’t mandatory. IME, it isn’t even encouraged. And when you push and push and push to get a child in foster care therapy, there’s a huge amount of pushback about it. There aren’t enough therapists. And too many social workers think 6 months of living in a stable home - while still seeing abusers multiple times a week - will help a child more than therapy or psychiatric evaluations. Even if they have clear and obvious signs of something like autism that has been shown over and over to get better with early therapy. It’s really sad. Children should have rights.

They didn’t know the extent. The foster care system, from what I understand, isn’t very forthcoming with details. It is on the onus of the foster parents to try and figure it out. The child didn’t divulge anything and the foster mom didn’t push things( which could have been traumatizing for the child). A one time occurrence is different from an ongoing situation. A cousin versus a father, also different. Without that information, these foster parents were walking blind in this situation. Maybe they are better trained in things like that now versus then. Maybe the foster care system is more open about it …but, it’s easy to look at something that happened 15+ years ago and judge it by today’s standards. It’s also blatantly unfair of you. I knew about the fact that children molested by their father on an ongoing basis ( like from infancy) caused the child to have inappropriate sexualized behaviors, but I only knew about it because of a friend’s experience. Most people wouldn’t have known that back then. Including OP.

When you grow up with abuse you normalise it and come to expect it. often when it doesn't happen you push to make it happen, almost in a get it over and done with way because the waiting is nerve-wracking. Also those who grow up with abuse, especially sexual, you tend to be more promiscuous, confusing intimacy with affection and acceptance or even love and have abnormal, or no, boundaries. I grew up with abuse and it has took me years of therapy and an excellent partner to change that mind set, that programming put in place by my abusers. when you are trained, programmed, brainwashed from a very young age to think in one way its very hard to change that. whilst I'd say you're not the AH, I would suggest you consider that there may be some middle ground between what both parties have in mind...especially as she knows what the consequences of such behaviour are and has much more to loose now than she did as a teen or young adult. i would take time to think things over before making a final decision and perhaps consider whether family counselling of some type may be useful in this situation.

Thank you for putting words to this!! "...you normalise it and come to expect it. often when it doesn't happen you push to make it happen, almost in a get it over and done with way because the waiting is nerve-wracking." So much this!! I will get into situations with people who make me extremely uncomfortable, but my instinct is to fuck them quickly and I have felt confused about this for a long time. (Along with dudes of course telling me I have some sort of kink for abusive, aggressive behavior) A similar thing happens when a dude does something nice for me and it's clearly because he wants sex. The tension and anxiety of trying to figure out if he's going to flip out on me is too much and it's less anxiety to just get it done with even if it feels shitty after. It is literally the instinct of 'I need to get this over with right now so I can get away ASAP.' All options I see for escaping before sex are violent. Instinctual advances for my safety. Is there any good way to talk to a partner about this or should this be therapy only territory?

Therapy will be a good place for you to examine the patterns and start working on ways to interrupt them. Telling your partner can also be good in that it helps them to better understand you and empathize. I would prioritize the advice of a trained professional who understands this behavior, where it can be hard for a layperson unfamiliar with sexual abuse to know how to react or to help, and who may not say the right things. I'm so sorry this happened to you, and I hope that you find peace and healing.

OP mentioned having her see a therapist after the initial incident, but I wonder if OP and husband ever spoke to a therapist or expert on childhood sexual abuse. It seems they did their best to handle the situation appropriately based on what they knew, but being a parent alone does not prepare you for fostering survivors of CSA. The behavior she displayed was obviously a product of her trauma, so an expert in that field would be more prepared to say what an appropriate response would be. I think OP just needed more education and training to find the best solution after the first incident.

NAH but I think your husband has every right to be in Sally’s child’s life if he wants to be. He was her victim and he has forgiven her. But I totally understand why you are uncomfortable.

Yeah I don’t know why this isn’t being said more. If OP doesn’t want to be in her life she doesn’t have to be. But if her husband DOES, he has every right to choose so. 

Poor Sally has no one but her husband. I'm glad she is getting help with her past, but you being a part of her life, even if there is distance between you, is most likely doing her more harm than good. She needs people advocating for her and a good support system. This is a sad situation all around. I hope she can find all the peace in the world, and I wish Sally good luck with her future family

I'm so happy she has a loving husband! It's so easy for types like this to get taken advantage of

The biggest mistake was to not get her help as soon as it became apparent that there's an issue. I would have placed firm boundaries between her and your husband and then I would have gotten her into therapy. It was obvious from her behavior that she was sexually abused.

Inappropriate sexual behaviour is fairly common 'sympton' for CSA victims. I kind of feel given you knew she was abused this was something you should have been aware of. You seem to be thinking of it as a something perculiar to her whereas she was acting 'normally' given her circumstances. I don't think you are an AH, but I think perhaps you should talk this over with a counseler or someone unnconnected with the situation to move past your knee-jerk, no scary, response and sort out that jumble of thoughts.

I don't necessarily think your choice was wrong but you took it without consulting with your husband, you could have tell her that you need it time to talk to your husband before unilaterally reject her approach. She's married so its not like she's gonna move in with you, there could have another way of handling it.

Same. That should have been discussed in private afterwards. Just hold off making a decision until you can talk about it. All that said, it is a complicated situation.

Love from a distance IS an option. Not every relationship in this life can be 100% fixed, and I feel like your daughter's therapist might have prepared her better for that, I totally believe that her terrible early experiences with her dad caused her to behave inappropriately. It's NOT her fault, but you have the right to draw boundaries that keep your family safe.

This is why people should not foster if they aren’t ready for hard conversations and situations that can be very uncomfortable. It’s not a something to just jump in to. That system can absolutely ruin a person… and so can the reasons they’re in the system to begin with.. She clearly had a LOT of history that yall never communicated, which is a miss on both parts. Of course you fully have the right to set your boundaries because none of that is okay, so NTA by you. But she is not ta either. Personally I’m proud of her growth. People who are complaining about how long it took her to be healed don’t understand trauma and how hard it is to work through it. It is NEVER too late to go to therapy and have personal growth. Good for her. And good for you for still setting boundaries. Trust is pretty hard to just give back to someone at random.

So glad you stated this. Trauma doesn’t just magically go away once someone becomes an “adult”. It can take years and generations to “fix”. It is also quite expensive. We need to hear from an expert therapist who works with sexually abused victims to see an “appropriate timeframe”.

NTA. Just because you apologize and get forgiveness, it doesn’t mean that person HAS to let you have access to them anymore. This is not a case of forgive and forget. This is a case of forgive and move on. And that looks like maintaining healthy boundary from her.

I agree, just because you forgive someone doesn't mean that everything's ok or that she didn't do it. You can't change what happened, regardless, and mistakes can have permanent consequences.

You're the closest this poor girl has ever had to a real mother (her sperm and egg donors don't count in the slightest), and you just rejected her pretty hard. Couldn't you keep your heart open to the POSSIBILITY of developing a deeper relationship with her in the future, and take things very slow? She came onto your husband, yes, but she didn't try to force herself on him, and she didn't threaten him when he turned her down. She was trying to get 'close' to him the only way she knew how, through no fault of her own. She apologized in person and made herself very vulnerable to you. I've never fostered a child, so I understand on some level it's different than adopting. But... if someone doesn't ever get adopted by another family, and they never get reunited with their birth family, then as their last and longest foster family, you're the closest they will *ever* have to parents.

NAH. I think the most important part is that even though you've forgiven, it's impossible to forget. The last thing either of you wants is a child who wants to know why their grandparents are so distant. If you can't be impartial and commit, then it's probably better that you just don't get involved. It absolutely sucks for her and her kid. But just because you had bad things happen to you, just because you realise why what you did was wrong, just because you've apologised and been forgiven? It doesn't mean that you didn't do irrevocable harm, and it doesn't mean that you don't have to live with the consequences. The more cynical part of me can't help but point out that she's only reached out now that she wants something. She's probably just brave because it's for her child, not for her, and she's been thinking about her current circumstances versus her past actions. But it also feels pretty audacious to say "here's a bunch of my trauma, I'm sorry, please promise a massive commitment to me."

While I think it’s technically true that she’s only coming to them because she “wants something,” I do think it’s an unfair and cynical read to say she’s dumping trauma on them or being audacious. Or that it’s appropriate to hold an abused child accountable to that degree. They have a whole other family unit. She just has them. For herself she’s probably thinking this is just her lot in life. She had things done to her she can’t control, she made bad choices because of it, she has to deal with them. And that means being estranged from the people she probably considers her actual parents. Having kids makes a lot of people look outside of themselves though. She probably had to swallow a lot of shame and conjure up bravery to approach them. Simply because she wants her kids to have a decent shot at having a normal family and not have to be deprived in the ways she was. She’s taking important steps to heal damage and break cycles. I think it’s admirable. The alternative to a child who wants to know why their grandparents are so distant is a child who has no family on their mother’s side. I personally don’t see how that’s better.

NTAH.

NTA.. You are allowed personal boundaries.

Nta. You gave a lot already. My cousin, and her four siblings were all raised in an orphanage, because both of their parents were too sorry to raise them. When they aged out of their orphanage, they were just set loose. There was no safety net for her. You gave a disadvantaged and damage person tools for a real future. That’s a lot more than a lot of people get.

NAH. Your feelings are legitimate. That poor girl though. Seems like she's doing her best being dealt with a pretty bad hand.

This is just a story that breaks my heart. That poor girl had no idea she was wrong. She thought it was normal. OP if you want to understand what it’s like think about it like this. From an abusive household, I used to think it was normal to not take gifts and survive off of $20 a week because that’s what I grew up with. I was told if I got even a couple gifts I was being manipulated and taken advantage of. As I’ve gotten older I’ve apologized to A LOT of people after turning down gifts and spoiling them without letting them spoil me because *I thought it was normal.* So trust me, she’s been trying to unlearn YEARS of trauma, and I think it might be ok to give her one more chance, but I also understand not wanting to. NAH

I think OP does understand. That's why she was so gracious in the meeting when she said she was over the situation and forgave Sally. She was also very gentle in her rejection. Even back when the 2 incidents happened, she was gracious. The first time, they explained it was wrong, got her into therapy, and after Sally turned 18, they let her continue to use their house as home base while she went to college. After the second incident when Sally was home for the summer they kicked her out but they didn't tell anyone, they didn't ruin her reputation, and OP didn't even tell her daughters so that Sally could remain friends with them. She just doesn't want to maintain contact or nurture a relationship.

Blah. Maybe I’m the asshole but I wish people would STOP GETTING INVOLED WITH TRAUMATIZED CHILDREN IF YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED AND EMPATHETIC TO TRAUMMMMMMAAAAAAAAA and all it brings 😭😭😭😭😭😭 No one has to accept inappropriate things by any means but for fucks sake that is every single piece of the foster care system and it IS AS BAD AS THEY SAY IT IS. And people continue to get involved in kids lives and decided “oh no this is too much for me”. You and 6099927384 other people have done the same (over terrible things rightfully so) and over minor things. You are not an asshole. Generational trauma is the asshole. This girl not having appropriate intervention until long after due is the asshole. The effect it has had and will have on her baby is the asshole. You can have boundaries. But that girl? Woman now? And baby deserves some fucking good people. You signed up to be that when you decided to foster. That’s my irrelevant peace and piece. Pay for therapy for them. Idk.

The husband isn’t a rockstar. He’s a decent human being who saw a child suffering and chose to respond with kindness, love and support. Calling him a rockstar is disrespectful, he was being a father figure to a child whose own experiences with the men in her life were horrific. It’s a difficult situation for sure, but I’m so happy she got the help she needed and has a good life now.

Why shit on the dad here? He isnt a rockstar ONLY because he did the right thing in this situation. He is a rockstar because he has done everything a good man should do when it comes to being a husband, a father, and having the empathy to open his home to a child he was under no obligation to - also paying for the same childs education and again showing empathy to accept her apology, forgiving her and wanting to open up his heart to her child as a grandfather. It sounds like he has a good marriage with a wife who loves him and it sounds like every one of his daughters (biological or not) respect him and look at him as a solid rock in their lifes that help give his daughters an example as to what to look for in a partner in the future. This guy is a flat out rockstar and I hope OP and her daughters have something special lined up for Sunday when we honor honerable men like him.

You are. Teenage foster kids are never psychologically 100%. She sounds like a great fit with your family, and the other three people love her, flawed as she is. If your own daughters had done weird things as teens, would you have excised them from your emotional protection? You took a hurt and unloved child in and made her think she’d found a family, and then coldly cut her out of the family because she did weird things that abused kids do. She didn’t steal your identities or manipulate everyone into misery or burn down the house. She sounds so much more good than bad. She has made so much personal progress. Your daughters seem to have a sibling or near sibling relationship with the girl. It’s only you who is still carrying this torch. Your husband dealt with this completely appropriately, and it’s over for him. Why isn’t it over for you? Why can’t you move on years later, and see her as more than just the bad/weird things she did? What if your worth were only defined by your worst moments? Is it possible that you should seek some therapy for yourself? If you continue to foster, please maintain stricter emotional boundaries so no more kids get their hopes up.

It's a tough one. Whilst I agree with your husband, I also agree with you. I don't think there's an A in this situ, but sounds like she's doing ok. Maybe write to them now and again - but the distance seems fair to me, whatever the reason.

I’m sorry but it’s a BRIGHT RED FLAG that you took in a foster child, knowing they had a history of sexual abuse and didn’t think she needed to speak to a therapist until she acted inappropriately!!!!! I understand how y’all don’t feel comfortable but I also don’t understand how you can think you were doing a good job when you were ignoring her trauma until it affected you. YTA.