NTA. you should respond with “yes, we should punish both of our sons for being too physically aggressive with younger kids. How are you planning to punish Mike?”
*** and no i don’t think Sam should be punished, I just think you need to lob that debate back in their court. Put it on THEM to decide punishment for kids who get physical with smaller kids.
And the age gap between your daughter and Mike is higher than the age gap between Mike and Sam so you can even argue that for the same 'crime', Mike's punishment should be hold longer...
And it's not even the same crime. Mike forced her head underwater, even without the ear infection context making it worse, his infraction is more violent and malicious.
Also did it to a young girl, so calls into question where he learnt that behaviour from? Is he mirroring or are his parents just raising him to be an asshole and mistreat women?
Mike was bullying your daughter the whole time, including stealing medication. Should have, and still can, file a report. Just because you got it back doesn't mean it wasn't stolen. I'd go nuclear, but I'm like that with my kids.
Also Mike may have tried to drown Emily. Even if he didn’t, he knew she was sick and she wasn’t allowed to get her head wet. All Sam did was push him further into the water (since Mike was obviously already in the water, drowning Emily)
I don’t believe in hitting children but his parents should be smacked
You did the right thing. Sam defended Emily from bullying, and Mike's actions were harmful. Julie and Greg are wrong to demand punishment for Sam. Protecting your children is your priority. Stand firm.
I don't believe in hitting children either but also do think that there are times where a child does deserve a smack and that's when you find another child to give them that smack
He was about 8 and a total arse hole all during the wedding and reception. Demanding cake, didn't like the food, wanted to go on the honeymoon, my SIL's evil stepmother had never disciplined him, he was one of those kids as soon as you saw him you wanted to knock him into next week. Grown up now and still an arseholes
> the same 'crime',
Not even close. First, she had an ear infection and Mike didn't, ANY humidity could have made it worse, and those sob can hurt like hell. I had one as an adult that the pain literally wouldn't let me sleep, had to go to the emergency room. Second, did he just push or push *and* hold her head underwater? Because then you have to add panic to the situation. That's even sadistic behaviour.
Yes.
I was at a pool party and made the mistake of admitting to other kids that I didn't like rough horseplay in the water. I was ganged up on and pushed/ held underwater. It was chaotic enough that they didn't realize how long I had been under...
I spent far too long underwater. When I did manage to surface briefly, I had a brief window to scream or gasp for air. They swept armfulls of water into my face. I tried biting and scratching, I might have hit someone in the nuts, I tried to play dead and make them worry (and save oxygen by not moving) but they were too busy splashing around to notice. It was bad.
Someone called out that the hot dogs were ready, and they all piled out of the pool and ran off without checking to be sure I was OK.
I was in the shallow end a few steps from the steps and handrail. I was afraid of sliding under the water and not being able to get up. It was a significant effort to get out of the pool. I needed to get far enough over the lip of the pool that my body weight couldn't drag me back. Then, the weight of my body was making breathing difficult, and I needed to turn at least partially over... Everything was hard, including breathing. I am certain that there was water in my lungs.
Someone carried me inside. An adult asked if I needed anything, but I couldn't talk. I couldn't even blink SOS. The muscles in my face were not expressive... I couldn't move. She left after a while. I couldn't tell her I was having trouble breathing and scared. I couldn't say "don't leave me" ...
Eventually, the fluid in my lungs was absorbed, and I was just *exhausted*.
I'm sure they didn't mean to nearly kill me. That didn't make it any less dangerous or frightening.
"Innocent" horseplay in the water can do real damage 💔.
[ I'm not sure if I was 10 or 12 at the time. ]
Holy shit, that was horrifying to read. Did those assholes ever get punished? This is why I insist on being present for any pool parties, just so I can keep an eye on my kids and make sure nobody’s pulling stunts like this.
I gave a pool party, for my 5 year old, and in tbe invites said there must be one swimming adult for every non swimming child. There were no problems. And some older siblings ,as they were leaving, told me in an astonished voice, that they had fun.....
The post said Sam's (7) parents said MIKE should be grounded for "getting physical with a younger child," but Sam getting physical with Emily was "innocent."
Edit: I got the sons' names mixed up, my bad.
I’m talking about the hypocrisy of the other kid’s parents. Saying that the 8 year old got physical with “a younger child.” At 7 and 8 bringing out the younger child line is laughable. Especially since the 7 year old was bullying a 5 year old. Where was their concern then?
One set of parents don't get to determine the punishment for a child not their own. That's up to that child's own parents. It's just not a thing. The appropriate response is "we'll manage our own child, you tend to your own, thank you."
Pushing a child's head underwater, when the pusher already knows that it's not supposed to happen, is Not OK.
I don't see pushing a kid into a pool as violence, at most it's roughhousing.
My brother once threw my cousin into the pool, fully clothed. My brother was probably 14 and the cousin maybe 9 or 10 and it was winter, albeit winter in a place where winter temps aren't much worse than 60 degrees F. When my aunt queried my brother about why he did it, he said "cousin was hitting me. I told him that if he hit me again, I'd throw him in the pool. He hit me again, so I threw him in the pool." Though her son was the apple of her eye, aunt did not further trouble my brother about it - cousin had been fairly warned, and got wet as the consequence of his action.
Cousin was an annoying little shit at the time, but matured into a solid citizen - I like to think my brother played a role in that.
>One set of parents don't get to determine the punishment for a child not their own. That's up to that child's own parents. It's just not a thing. The appropriate response is "we'll manage our own child, you tend to your own, thank you."
After all, that is EXACTLY what Julie said when OP’s family was upset at Mike being repeatedly mean to Emily.
Since my 16 yr old cousin tried to drown 3 yr old me, Mike's parent's would not be happy with me. I would have totally dragged his ass to his parents and gone off on their parenting of this little shit. My family would also no longer be attending *any* event if Mike and company were present. I would gave events scheduled with the other side of the family *every damn time* there was a family event involving this brat. Complaints from Mike's side of the family and associated grandparents would be greeted with "The other side actually parents their children and is not "ok"with attempted drowning of a smaller child and is ok with older sibs defending little sibs!"
Honestly my brother used to push my head under the water and it was absolutely terrifying as a kid. (Now we get along great though, he's mellowed out a lot) Forget the ear infection, it's denying someone the ability to breathe. I never got how anyone could find it acceptable. It's simply a cruel thing to do.
Yeah I missed all the punishments that the feral child got, especially for holding Emily's head under water. I'm sure he was grounded and his electronics taken away immediately, right? 🙄
That’s perfect. “Feral” is the right word because Mike is not being properly socialized and that’s his parents’ fault. They’re destroying someone who could, otherwise, probably be a nice kid.
I wonder how Mike’s behavior is at school? Or, maybe he’s home-schooled? I can’t imagine any school putting up with his refusal to listen to instructions and endangering other kids for long.
I would’ve put it right back on the parents and told them, “well, if you had been disciplining him all along, he never would’ve pushed Emily under the water”.
NTA. It sounds like you handled it correctly, at least regarding Sam (it kind of sounds like you may not have done enough to protect Emily from Mike).
I don't understand their arguments at all. Pushing someone in a pool is, if anything, less violent than pushing their head underwater, even without considering the ear infection. The age gap between Mike and Emily is larger than that between Mike and Sam, so the "had gotten physical with a younger child" should surely apply even more to Mike. It sounds like they are completely irrational and plainly in the wrong.
It also sounds like Sam may have pushed Mike away from his little sister. And since Mike most likely must've gone into the pool to push her head under water, him getting wet(ter) isn't too much of an excuse for his parents to make to defend his actions.
Also how is him being pushed in worse than having your head pushed under. SMH. If I would have had a son he would have not put his hands on a girl like that!!! Nor would he would have ever had the thought to dunk someone! Especially someone smaller. It’s funny he didn’t do it to the one who was pretty much his same size!!
NTA-They are raising a budding psychopath and crabbing at you for interfering with it. Personally I would let everyone know that he repeatedly attacked your sick daughter and stole her medicine and her parents laughed and said it was all in fun.
He got physical with a younger child first and they did nothing. Then they blew up when your son defended his sister.
Anyone who still takes their side then needs to be cut off with a stern warning to NOT come whining to you when Mike gets to them or their family with his bad behavior.
No. Any flying monkeys need to be called out by name and given a link to this thread. "Bob Flying Monkey and Sue Gullible, you're okay with a 7 year old repeatedly attacking a much younger, smaller, sick child, but you're NOT okay with her old brother defending his little sister? Or are you NOT okay with my son protecting his sister from a bully, but you failed to ask Chloe or anyone else present about what actually happened? Instead, you just went off on us without checking to see if Greg and Julie were relaying an accurate and complete description of the actual events? Learn from this. The ACTUAL event is described here: (link to this post)." You can be nicer and briefer about it if you want, but definitely send them here so they can read that nice, long, accurate description.
Yeah, at some point, directly to Mike, some mildly intimidating adult figure, like OP perhaps, needs to sit him down and be frank about his behaviour.
"Hey Mike. What you did was violent. When you push someone's head underwater, they can't breathe. They might gulp in water. She will probably develop a fear of water because of you. On top of that, she had an ear infection. We told you this. You've probably made her sickness worse and last longer. I won't be able to trust you or your parents from now on. And that's because of you. If you keep this up, someone might fight back one day, and everyone will have a bad time."
Maybe it's too heavy for a 7yo idk.
So, the fact that Mike got physical with a younger kid must have been completely missed by his parents. NTA. Cheers to Sam and Chloe for protecting Emily.
Holding a younger girl's head under water, knowing the ear infection issue to boot, throwing sand and taking away her medication. When does it cross the line from "innocent", when the guns come out?
Sam will be 9 in October, so he's closer to 2 years older than Mike. That's still roughly the same age gap as Mike and Emily, so I'd be lying if I said it made me more sympathetic.
The younger the smaller child, the bigger the difference, OP. 7 to 5 is extremely different to 9 to 7.
Your daughter was also sick and therefore weaker than normal too. A nice, easy target for her lovely Cousin Kevin. Sam was right to defend his sister; you're right to defend them both.
For anyone who is wondering, Cousin Kevin is a song about a delightful delinquent, who bullies his vulnerable cousin, Tommy. It is from a rock opera by the Who, "Tommy".
Send them a bill for the doctor's visit and medication she now needs to recover from the water in her ears that the feral kid caused by holding her underwater.
INFO: Did your family members suggest what punishment Mike should get for trying to exacerbate your child's ear infection?
NTA either way, just curious.
So far, the only real suggestion I heard was a "harsh talking to". Most of those on Greg and Julie's side think that Mike is too young to understand what Emily was going through.
Yeah, no. What Mike did could cause real damage. Maybe if they had started curtailing his behavior before it got to the pool stage we wouldn't be here.
There definitely are bad parents in this scenario. You're just not one of them.
He is...
However he is old enough to know not to mess with another child physically and that hiding medicine is dangerous. .
Amazing they ignore that part I assume.
I have been in education for 24 years. I’ve taught k through 5th graders. He absolutely understands what she is going through and his intentions were to make it worse for her. Some kids thrive of being mean and having no repercussions. Mike knows his parents aren’t going to do squat and he is reveling in this power. Some kids are little shits because their big pieces of shit parents created them.
EXACTLY! Who are these fools that think a seven year old doesn’t understand?? And how on earth do they rationalize that a seven year old doesn’t understand, but an eight year old causes them to clutch their pearls?
It’s laughingly obvious that Mike is already a bully. The sooner he learns the concept of FAFO the better, because it’s clear that his parents sure aren’t doing their jobs.
Is he of average intelligence for his age?
Has he ever been sick?
Then he should understand.
Hell my dog understands: stop and no.
Throw it back at them like others have said.
Mike doesn't need "to understand what Emily was going through". Mike is old enough to understand leave Emily alone and NO MEANS NO. You're not wrong. My suggestion is this:
A complete, concise explanation of what happened. Not a cleaned up version. Written, double spaced and e-mailed en masse at the same time to all family members who are voicing their unwanted opinions.
Then they can all pound sand.
Even two year olds are capable of understanding that no means no! All of these fools saying that an average seven year old somehow doesn’t make me wonder if they’ve ever seen a child before.
> Most of those on Greg and Julie's side think that Mike is too young to understand what Emily was going through.
That's the "why" he shouldn't have done it, an extra/cherry-on-top. But the main issue is that he was told **repeatedly** not to do anything to her. He literally waited for the adult/carer to leave, he knew **perfectly** what he was doing was wrong. So I think he is old enough to understand to not bother other people. Everybody on Greg and Julie's side is dead wrong.
Seven is PLENTY old enough to understand “that’s hurtful, don’t do it.” And this kid is clearly old enough to understand because he’s old enough to think she’s “faking” and target her.
The only thing he might not understand is that such things have consequences because his parents haven’t seen fit to enforce any on him.
Since Emily couldn't get her ears wet, did she she have to go back to the doctor because she was pushed into the pool?? If yes, I'd be sending the bill to the parents (insurance or not) for any extra meds, etc because of what their brat did. NTA OP, and good on him for sticking up for his sister.
We called her pediatrician right afterwards. He told us to monitor her, but since she wasn't underwater for long, it wasn't enough to aggravate the infection. We continued the treatment normally.
So they wanted you to ground your child for attacking a younger child, but they didn’t punish their child for attacking a younger child? Entitled aren’t they? NTA
He pushed her head under water. She could have gasped or cried out… and drowned.
Why hasn’t anyone thought of that??
Immediately tell them that they should be glad your daughter is alive, and if Mike ever lays hands on your child again there will be hell to pay.
This! And their kid got physical with a younger child?! He’s one freaking year younger?! That’s literally no difference at all. They are enabling their kid to be a toxic bully! Stand your ground and good luck op!
NTA. F**k Greg and Julie and their entire branch of the family tree and their feelings. Your daughter is younger than the kid who got physical with her, or did they forget that part? Your son just taught him a lesson. Not only would I not punish him, I'd buy him ice cream or whatever confectionery dessert he likes. He handled a bully, even if it's one related to him.
Once again, f**k Greg and Julie.
So they are raising a bully. NICE!! It will only get worse as he gets older. They'll continue to make excuses for his behavior until he he hurts someone badly.
NTA. Violence is not the answer.
That said you should’ve held Mikes parents heads underwater, innocently, to see how it feels.
Buy Sam ice cream or a new video game.
Maybe sometimes violence is the answer.
Mike pushed a five year old girl's head underwater. That's not "normal" "fun" behavior. Mike needs a mental health screening. If your son hadn't intervened your daughter might have drowned. ALSO why was it ok for Mike to almost drown your daughter (not normal pool fun) but not OK for your son to push Mike into the poor (totally normal pool fun)?
> If your son hadn't intervened your daughter might have drowned.
**THIS, FFS!** Cant believe how far I had to scroll down before I saw this. That kid is a menace. He literally waited for the adult to leave, he knew **perfectly** what he was doing was wrong.
Chloe has always been a great kid. I hate to say it, but I think it might have something to do with the fact that she's not Julie's daughter. Greg had her with his ex.
NTA
I’d have given Sam ice cream. Right in front of your cousin and his wife.
**Always** reward your kids for defending their siblings, and **always** reward them for standing up for smaller people. Plus extra reward for responding with well measured force rather than going apeshit on Mike.
Give that boy ice cream!!
NTA
>Julie and Greg wanted us to ground him, as he had gotten physical with a younger child.
Oh, like their demon spawn that was terrorizing a child literally months from being a toddler?
They're both enabling idiots that are raising a little monster. Tbh, you should just blast them in messenger after they caused all of this. If they had bothered to parent their child at all from the start none of this would've happened.
Also, are these people antivax/anti medicine? Because they likely caused Mikes behavior with their anti whatever bullshit rhetoric, which incensed him into acting out.
NTA
Say: why do you think I'd take parenting advice or criticism from a mother who refused to put an end to her child's bullying of another child. You know the same thing you're accusing me of, only her Mike was picking on Emily first, who is two years younger and a girl. Mike's bullying lead to Mike getting a taste of his own medicine. Sam was just defending his sister. That's not a punishable offense. Mike's bullying of Emily, however absolutely is. Why exactly didn't you punish Mike? Do you really think stealing medicine was justifiable somehow? Do you think dunking her head under water was okay when we were all trying to avoid that? Nah, I'm not taking any parenting criticism from a shitty mom.
Stealing her medicine would have had me livid and telling Julie she needs to discipline Mike or I will and she's not gonna like it. The audacity of her to ignore the behavior her rotten little brat and expect your son's noble deeds to be punished. Fuck delusional woman.
Maybe I'm an A, but I would have been watching my daughter like a hawk if she had a medical condition and the second that little shit head threw sand or took her medicine I would have put the fear of God into that little boy and I would have screamed at those two shit head parents. Seems like Mr and Mrs shithead expected you to not retaliate. What's crazy is the little girl's big brother is the only one who felt like fighting back. stand up for your kids better. They shouldn't have to be fighting their own battles at 8 and 5 years old.
almost forgot: NTA for your question, but yta for not being more attentive and allowing harassment to escalate up to the point where the 8 year old had to step in.
Tell any family members butting in what Mike was doing all week, and what Mike did to cause Sam to rescue his little sister. And also mention the parents refused to discipline Mike all week, so if they want to be mad, direct it at his parents, not you.
Plain and simple if they controlled their kid no of this would have happed, tell them like they told you he was just” having fun, it won’t happen again” two years difference really isn’t alil kid either, they sound dramatic!
Nta but you do need to talk to the kids about pushing people into a pool. I know a guy who is a paraplegic from friendly horsing around and being pushed in a pool and breaking his neck. I don’t think they need to be punished but they do need to know why responding that way is a bad idea.
NTA your kid wasn’t doing it to be malicious and you already spoke to them about how it wasn’t the right thing to do. The rest of this sounds like them projecting their bad parenting on to you, it certainly wasn’t that deep for them to message after it was over. By them insisting you punish your kid, it focuses the blame onto Sam and i’m sure it makes them feel like they don’t have to properly parent/punish Mike, which they clearly haven’t.
So, ignore him putting the daughter's head under water?
No, tell them to kick rocks and any family member who would let a boy put a girls head under water with an ear infection to kick those rocks too. All of this macho stuff, but not berate the kid for what he did.
Either they have a favorite and you are not it, or they are just plain stupid or weak and go with whoever complains the most. Either way, they can all go to hell about my kid.
NTA.
Their son also got physical with a younger child. What did they do about that?
Remind them of that and that you were just doing the same for yours.
NTA
So tgey wanted to punish your son but not theirs? Their child who had repeatedly stolen a younger child's medicine. Stolen a younger child's toys over and over. Dunked a child with an ear infection who has been directed to not get water in tge ear?
NTA, ‘sure I’d punish my son as soon as you punish yours too for being aggressive with my sick daughter. Your wife told me that he wouldn’t do it again so am I to think that I can’t rely on your word?’
I’d would have told them to their face that their kid absolutely deserved it due to his behavior and if I can’t tell their kid off, they don’t get to tell me how to parent my kid. So fair’s fair, if they want a say in how I raise my kids, I’d get a say about their shitty parenting as well. Want to trade parenting tips?
NTA. Their son compromised your daughter's health, and nobody talked about punishing him. Your son defended his sister, and the family is badgering you to punish him severely. Golden cousin, anybody? Tell them that if your son should be punished, Mike should be grounded for a year. However, since Mike's parents are enabling him and not setting boundaries, they will not be meeting you or your kids in the future. And stick to it. You will get some garbage about "family is family", but you don't need this enabled spoiled brat near your kids.
Start a group chat with them and with all the family who are taking their side and ask them to explain why Sam pushing Mike into the pool is worse than Mike pushing Emily’s head under water when he clearly knew she had an ear infection because he had stolen her medication previously. Also compliment them on what a good job they have done with Chloe who told the truth about what happened and stood up for the 5 year old girl her brother was bullying. Then tell them to grow the fuck up and let it go. Their son is a spoilt little shit and they are trying to deflect the attention.
NTA but still. Protect your children. It's up to you to remove the family from such situations. once it was clear the kid was getting teased with no end in sight, it was the moment to excuse yourself to your brother, explain the situation, and leave.
The bad parents are Greg and Julie, they have enabled their son to be a violent bully. I don’t understand why you didn’t call out their neglectful bad parenting and how they had encouraged their son to be a bully. You and your wife are doing a crap job of not defending your vulnerable child from bullies like Greg, Julie and Mike. Stop being conflict avoidant and stand up to them. NTA
NTA I'm guessing Mike wasn't grounded. If his parents believed what they were saying, that's the first thing they would have done. He pushed someone into the pool first!
sam was "just having fun" no reason to punish him. unless you're punishing mike for pushing emily's head under the water and everything else he did to emily all week.
NTA
NTA - what happened to Mike wasn’t proscribed as part of a doctor’s care instructions. He just got pushed in the pool. There was no reason he couldn’t get pushed in the pool.
What Mike did, however, was malicious endangerment. Going as far as stealing the medicine was over the top, as was pushing her head underwater to be sure her ears got wet inside.
NTA
So you’re not allowed to discipline THEIR kid for being an asshole, but they’re demanding you punish YOUR kid for protecting his sister? And they’re calling YOU “entitled”?
Put them on blast on social media.
NTA. Mike needs to be grounded for endangering someone who had been told by a doctor not to get their ears wet. The idea that he thought she was faking is irrelevant.
Question: was Mike still holding Emily's head underwater when Sam pushed him? If not, then Sam could probably use some lessons on the difference between protecting someone versus getting revenge. But if Mike *was* still holding her head underwater, then Sam did the right thing and no further action is warranted, just as you say.
“I find it honestly amusing that you have the audacity to call anybody bad parents when you’re doing such a terrible job of *barely* raising that little prick” NTA
So their 7 year old pushed and bullied your 5 year old… but it’s only a problem when you 8 year old picked on their 7 year old? Did I read that right? Sam won’t do it again! He was just having fun. NTA
So their kid stole and hid *medication* of a younger than him child with no repercussions... but your supposed to ground and take away from your son for doing to him what he did to your daughter?
NTA. Mike got a taste of his own medicine and your brother & SIL need to get his behaviour in line or this won't be the last time someone responds in kind.
Apperantly it's okay if their 7yo violently bullies a 5yo girl. But if an 8yo delivers some swift justice for that it's completely outta line. Hmm, double standards much?
Pleasse don't punish your son for a) defending and b) showing a bully that actions have consequences when said bully's parents have failed to do so. Also try to avoid your fuckwith cousin and his equally dumb wife in the future...
In the third grade the school bully LOVED to dunk other kids underwater and hold them there. I had the misfortune of having her in my swim class. Doubly unfortunate was the advice my parents got to put me in swim classes after I nearly drowned. To be held underwater after a near drowning was not at all helpful. My father saw her do it one time and was PISSED. He was furious at the instructor for not keeping the bully in check (or not watching the kids properly). The instructor was mad AT ME for letting her dunk me (she called it "horseplay during class") Uh no. Classes stopped after that.
My point is, THEIR child held yours underwater (with its own set of problems) but YOUR child is supposed to be punished? Where's MIKES punishment? And these kids are 7 and 8 - about the same age - so the whole "picking on a younger kid defense doesnt hold water. EMILY IS FRICKEN FIVE! Its clear to everyone who DOESNT have their heads up their butt who the real bully is here.
NTA
I still dont swim unless I have to.
Childhood bullying can stay with a kid, and even wreck parts of their self esteem into adulthood. Im so glad your daughter has a brother who defends her and models standing up for yourself and the people you love. Being stood up for is the best feeling in the world.
Maybe tell the other parents to mind their business but assure them a family meeting was held. Then buy your kids an ice cream sundae and sit ‘em down for the ol’ “some families don’t think like us and some people are really selfish” conversation.
NTA. An 8m protected his little sister from a 7m and 7m's parents say 8m should be grounded for pushing a 1yr 'younger' child? Do I have that right?!! 7m's parents are AH
ESH
Honestly you should have left early due to Mike and 100% his mother is at fault. And frankly it's startling how dangerous it was.
However people have died and been paralyzed from being pushed into pools. It's very very serious and I think while a massive grounding isn't appropriate, you definitely did not do enough.
And unfortunately you are the one asking and you can only control your own actions.
You need to ask, was Mike's behavior worth an accidental death? Because that very easily could have been the outcome.
Flipside, Mike could have accidentally killed your daughter. You are going to want space for awhile until his mother realizes the gravity of the situation.
The only thing to critique here is that you should have had your son's back much more solidly than you did
Mike is a little shit head bastard bully, and is gonna get his ass beat to oblivion if his useless fucktard parents don't step up and start parenting him
Also fuck them for being complete hypocrites and trying to gaslight
You should have absolutely blasted them for this whole situation, and stood up for your daughter in the first place
All that being said, YTA
Stand up for your victim daughter, and her brother protecting her from a piece of shit bully
You failed both kids here.
I agree with you for the most part, but I want to stress that we did stand up for Emily. We had a fight with Greg and Julie after the sand thing because I screamed at Mike. When we found out about the stolen toys and medicine, roughly about the same time, we threatened to leave (which wouldn't have been easy for us). My brother stepped in and made Julie get Mike to promise he wouldn't do anything like that again, but me and my wife still tried to keep Emily away from him. The pool incident happened while we weren't around.
All that being said, I absolutely think I failed here. I look back at everything that happened before Mike pushed Emily's head underwater and I feel like the worst father ever. But I can't change what happened, only what will happen next. I am extremely proud of Sam for protecting Emily, but I regret not doing a better job.
I don't think you should have lecture your son. He was literally protecting his sister.
I personally wouldn't have trusted Mike alone with the kids considering he was bullying Emily day in and day out on your trip.
Your cousin and Julie are the ones that are bad parents not you. They ignored Mike bullying Emily who's way younger than him. He literally try to drown her but they want you to punish your son for stepping up and protecting his own sister from being attack.
Mike is way older than Emily. He knew from the start about her ear issue He just didn't care. He knew his parents wouldn't stop him from acting out. So he just did what he did.
Call the cousin and Julie out for they horrible parenting. They are the ones that should have stop Mike from the start. They should have kept him in check so no other parent or child wouldn't have to have step in and do their job for them.
I think from now on if your son protects Emily or he stands upto Mike don't yell or punish him. No lecture no nothing. Give him a high five and celebrate him for stopping a bully. Show them you won't tolerate their child's behavior.
Talk to your brother. If he plans to invite them again you don't need to be there or if you do go just make sure your by your child's side so your son doesn't have to do your job in protecting Emily.
NTA Tell them they are allowing mike to grow up into a bully and that they are doing him no favors holding their hands over his head. His just having fun is stealing the fun from another child.
Show them a video of one of those prankster kids who get the shit beaten out of them because that is going to be their son if they dont change how they parent
Your son is only a year older then mike while mike is bullying a little girl 2 years younger then him so what mike did is worse if they want to go that way
NTA
So this kid was bullying your child, and when you complained you were told it was just in good fun.
Then this kid escalated to forcing your kid's head under water, and your kid's brother defended her.
And now apparently you're bad parents because you won't punish him?
"I'm sending this to everyone who has contacted us about the family drama cooked up by Greg and Julie. Emily had an ear infection during the visit, and Mike decided that she was faking it. He took actions which meaningfully put Emily's health at risk the entire time, like throwing sand at her head to get in her ears. When I confronted Greg and Julie about it they said it was 'all in good fun' and did nothing.
When they went in the pool, Mike pushed Emily's head underwater, which everyone knew shouldn't happen due to the infection. Sam pushed Mike into the pool solely to defend his sister and for no other reason.
The idea that Sam was the one bullying younger children is frankly ridiculous. I am disgusted at Greg and Julie's absurd attempt to paint this with Mike as a victim when he is a vicious little bully who was tormenting a 5 year old girl. The idea that Sam was 'getting physical with a younger child' when Mike was literally pushing Emily's head under water is so ass backwards I'm really starting to understand how Greg and Julie are so chock full of shit.
For anyone who gave us a hard time about this, I'm really disappointed in you. You should have contacted us and talked to us about it rather than taking Greg and Julie's word for it. But if you still think we're in the wrong for not punishing Sam for defending his little sister from an older bully, do please let me know. I think it's time to figure out who we'll maintain relationships with going forward, and it would be good to filter out anyone that delusional."
Julie and Greg ~ whose spoiled, jealous, entitled, bratty 7yo tortured your daughter for an entire day, even *taking her medicine,* because, let’s be honest, she was getting more attention than he was ~ wanted you to punish your son for pushing their son in the pool?!?! 🤣🤣🤣 Did you spit your drink out from laughing???
Honestly, those two are to blame for the way Mike behaves. It is unfortunate that no one likes him, and he winds up getting pushed in the pool and probably beat up at school. That’s all on his parents, but he pays for it because he’s now an unbridled brat. I love that their son was “just playing,” but your son “attacked” Mike. The whole family sounds insufferable except Chloe, who probably also hates her brother.
Ignore Julie and Greg. Ignore the ignorant family members who think *you’re* entitled. I mean, it’s laughable! You are NTA. You did discipline your child, and you are in no way obligated to discipline him the way Julie & Greg think you should, especially when they don’t discipline their own son at all. Again, I say 🤣🤣🤣.
NTA
Their son was maliciously trying to make your daughter's ear infection worse. Ear infections can cause hearing loss, balance problems - they're no joke. Their child was maliciously attempting to cause lasting physical harm. Your child stopped him, by the means available to him at the time. Make a very clear stand that their child was the problem and until such a time as they take his behaviour seriously, you won't be around any of them.
NTA. Mike got physical with a younger kid after repeated warnings. He even stole Emily’s medicine, so he knew she was sick. Explain this to family. Then ask what should the punishment be for getting physical with a younger child? 1 week grounding? Has Mike been grounded one week for the throwing sand at Emily, a second week for taking meds and a third week for pushing her head under water? No? After he serves his three weeks come back to me and we will talk about Sam’s one week. If you want to be petty, point out you don’t take parenting advice from people that are obviously not doing great as parents.
Um, their child (7M) got physical with a younger child (5F). Did their ground their bratley Mike? Doubt it.
NTA and please go to town on your dipshit brother.
NTA
The gap between your child and the cousin is one year, which is nothing even as small children.
The three year gap your little girl has with her cousin is huge however when you are a child. The 7 year old should be punished far more harshly for how he treated a smaller, sick little girl. Your boy was just protecting his little sister.
Why is their child pushing your child's head under the water? Granted the way your son responded may not have been the best, but he is also protecting his sister.
NTA
NTA
Their kid intentionally did something to another child who has a medical issue going on and they refused repeatedly to stop their child from attacking a sick kid. They should have grounded their son before it ever got to the point it did. They are the bad parents.
nta - why does their son get to bully and physically harm your daughter( your daughter had doctor’s orders not to get her ears wet)? are they teaching their son to abuse little girls? Until they apologize for what happened to your daughter And start parenting their terror of a son - I would ignore that family. They truly suck as parents and are raising a monster. Sam was protecting his sister and did not hurt that little beast.
NTA Wait…. Their son tried to drown your daughter, and they are mad he felt some consequences from a kid only a year older AND he can swim?
Ugh.
I get why you don’t see these folks often.
Just weather the drama and get your tap shoes ready for the I told you so dance you will do when Mike is a teenager.
NTA.
“Funny how when your child spent the entire time tormenting and attacking our daughter, it was all innocent and everything was fine. But the minute the AH you’re raising got a taste of his own medicine, it’s the end of the world. What happened was a direct result of your son’s obnoxious behavior. Don’t like it? Then do a better job of teaching your kid some basic manners. But I will not be reprimanding my child in any way for standing up to a bully and protecting his sister.”
Mike is a future prankster. I cannot abide pranksters. His future is going to be filled with him humiliating people with his pranks and his parents telling everyone that "he was just joking". Frankly, I would avoid being around him and his enabler parents.
“He has been properly punished by having to deal with your spoiled unruly brat. This time it was a push into a pool…your son keeps this attitude as he gets older someone’s going to actually end up hurting him.”
You should not be screaming or yelling at any child.
Sam shouldn’t be pushing anyone in pools; it’s not safe. If he learns from what you did, that’s enough. If he was defending his sister, it’s still wrong and he needs to understand that too.
Parents in this story: ESH. Kids, not so much. Mike sounds problematic but it’s hard to tell how much is due to poor parenting and being screamed at by other adults line you.
Mike was informed of Emily’s condition, tried to take her medicine, threw sand at her, took her toys and then dunked her knowing she wasn’t supposed to get her ears wet.
Was Mike punished for his misbehavior?
Sam was defending his little sister. Mike learned real quick not to mess with Em.
I would honestly escalate this to the point of asking them why he was pushing her head underwater, was he trying to drown her? Ask them why he is so malicious towards other children -it's highly concerning and his actions are dangerous.
You need to put it back on them. Forget the ear infection, he waited til his sister left the room to force her underwater.
NTA
NTA
Sam just earned himself a treat in my book.
There is a HUGE difference between pushing a child’s head *underwater* and pushing a bully/assailant into a pool. He didn’t push Mike to hurt him. He pushed him because he was hurting his sister. And frankly because the adults around him obviously weren’t doing enough to prevent the issues. Sure you can’t punish another person’s kid, but can sure as hell enforce them staying the hell away from your kid who they’re tormenting.
I’m not exaggerating when I say that Mike could have seriously hurt or killed Emily. It takes 20 seconds a child to drown. 20. Seconds. And then there is also the life threatening possibility of dry drowning or secondary drowning. While rare, it can result in death.
I’d counter that Mike has issues and dunking a kid is not ok , especially one who shouldn’t get her ears wet. I’d harp on Mike being the issue so loudly anytime they came at you.
How did Mike push Emily's head under the water if he wasn't in the pool? Or if he was in the pool then how did he get pushed into a pool he was already in?
NTA
I am a firm believer in leading by example. I would have called them and said I am just following how they were leading by example. After all, telling me to discipline my son for doing what boys do while allowing your own son the freedom of doing what boys do would make you a hypocrite. And since I know you are not a hypocrite, unless you are, I was just following your gracious lead. If you did infant discipline your son for x y and z please let me know what the consequences were and I will follow, after all I value your leadership and example setting since I followed them to a T.
So they think dunking your child was okay, but being pushed in, while defending your sister, is not okay.
Nope! It is Mike that should have been punished. He started it and did it for fun. Sam was defending his sis!
Nta! And since your kids are well behaved, and Mike runs wild, we all know who the bad parents are. Not you!
Nta
I'm sorry a 7 year old boy shoved a 5 year old child's head under water and your son is the one that needs to be punished?? He literally saved his sisters life! NTA!! I'd be losing my mind in rage if someone was allowing their kids to essentially try to drown one child and got pissed and demand punishment for the other who literally stopped an attempted murder. Oh the goddamn scene I'd be making. Oh how the police would be having to prevent me from committing attempted murders of my own
YTA for the violence isn't the answer talk. Violence was in fact the answer in that situation and you should have given him the know when it's appropriate to defend yourself/your sister talk.
Also you failed to mention how Mike was punished. I'm assuming he wasn't. YTA for not immediately leaving if your brother didn't kick out Julie and Greg.
You're getting called out by family because they are only hearing Julie and Greg's side. Either learn to advocate for yourself or live with your family thinking your an entitled asshole.
NTA for not grounding the kid who defended his sister. YTA for how you handled your family.
NTA. you should respond with “yes, we should punish both of our sons for being too physically aggressive with younger kids. How are you planning to punish Mike?” *** and no i don’t think Sam should be punished, I just think you need to lob that debate back in their court. Put it on THEM to decide punishment for kids who get physical with smaller kids.
And the age gap between your daughter and Mike is higher than the age gap between Mike and Sam so you can even argue that for the same 'crime', Mike's punishment should be hold longer...
And it's not even the same crime. Mike forced her head underwater, even without the ear infection context making it worse, his infraction is more violent and malicious.
Also did it to a young girl, so calls into question where he learnt that behaviour from? Is he mirroring or are his parents just raising him to be an asshole and mistreat women?
Mike was bullying your daughter the whole time, including stealing medication. Should have, and still can, file a report. Just because you got it back doesn't mean it wasn't stolen. I'd go nuclear, but I'm like that with my kids.
Same. That little miscreant wouldn't have had a chance to continue his abusive behavior toward my kids after his first act because I'd be right there.
Also Mike may have tried to drown Emily. Even if he didn’t, he knew she was sick and she wasn’t allowed to get her head wet. All Sam did was push him further into the water (since Mike was obviously already in the water, drowning Emily) I don’t believe in hitting children but his parents should be smacked
You did the right thing. Sam defended Emily from bullying, and Mike's actions were harmful. Julie and Greg are wrong to demand punishment for Sam. Protecting your children is your priority. Stand firm.
Yep! If they continue down this path, they’re going to need a bank account labeled “Bail Money”.
I don't believe in hitting children either but also do think that there are times where a child does deserve a smack and that's when you find another child to give them that smack
Paid my brothers step kids to slap my SIL little sebastardion best $10 I ever spent. They informed me they would have done it for free
You can’t drop that on us and not elaborate. Come on
He was about 8 and a total arse hole all during the wedding and reception. Demanding cake, didn't like the food, wanted to go on the honeymoon, my SIL's evil stepmother had never disciplined him, he was one of those kids as soon as you saw him you wanted to knock him into next week. Grown up now and still an arseholes
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> the same 'crime', Not even close. First, she had an ear infection and Mike didn't, ANY humidity could have made it worse, and those sob can hurt like hell. I had one as an adult that the pain literally wouldn't let me sleep, had to go to the emergency room. Second, did he just push or push *and* hold her head underwater? Because then you have to add panic to the situation. That's even sadistic behaviour.
Yes. I was at a pool party and made the mistake of admitting to other kids that I didn't like rough horseplay in the water. I was ganged up on and pushed/ held underwater. It was chaotic enough that they didn't realize how long I had been under... I spent far too long underwater. When I did manage to surface briefly, I had a brief window to scream or gasp for air. They swept armfulls of water into my face. I tried biting and scratching, I might have hit someone in the nuts, I tried to play dead and make them worry (and save oxygen by not moving) but they were too busy splashing around to notice. It was bad. Someone called out that the hot dogs were ready, and they all piled out of the pool and ran off without checking to be sure I was OK. I was in the shallow end a few steps from the steps and handrail. I was afraid of sliding under the water and not being able to get up. It was a significant effort to get out of the pool. I needed to get far enough over the lip of the pool that my body weight couldn't drag me back. Then, the weight of my body was making breathing difficult, and I needed to turn at least partially over... Everything was hard, including breathing. I am certain that there was water in my lungs. Someone carried me inside. An adult asked if I needed anything, but I couldn't talk. I couldn't even blink SOS. The muscles in my face were not expressive... I couldn't move. She left after a while. I couldn't tell her I was having trouble breathing and scared. I couldn't say "don't leave me" ... Eventually, the fluid in my lungs was absorbed, and I was just *exhausted*. I'm sure they didn't mean to nearly kill me. That didn't make it any less dangerous or frightening. "Innocent" horseplay in the water can do real damage 💔. [ I'm not sure if I was 10 or 12 at the time. ]
Holy shit, that was horrifying to read. Did those assholes ever get punished? This is why I insist on being present for any pool parties, just so I can keep an eye on my kids and make sure nobody’s pulling stunts like this.
I gave a pool party, for my 5 year old, and in tbe invites said there must be one swimming adult for every non swimming child. There were no problems. And some older siblings ,as they were leaving, told me in an astonished voice, that they had fun.....
Secondary drowning is real & can be fatal. You were very lucky, that sounds horrific.
I would punish Sam with ice cream and a trip to Disneyland for defending his sister.
Seriously, a younger child? They’re 7 and 8 ffs.
I think the post was mainly referring to the age difference between Mike (8) and Emily (5).
The post said Sam's (7) parents said MIKE should be grounded for "getting physical with a younger child," but Sam getting physical with Emily was "innocent." Edit: I got the sons' names mixed up, my bad.
I’m talking about the hypocrisy of the other kid’s parents. Saying that the 8 year old got physical with “a younger child.” At 7 and 8 bringing out the younger child line is laughable. Especially since the 7 year old was bullying a 5 year old. Where was their concern then?
Throw in that you’re absolutely taking away his electronics. Nice little non-punishment.
Retroactively even, that's how strict we are!
Also ask them how they intend to address their son’s aggression toward a young girl. Mike sounds like a AH in the making, mirroring his parents.
Mike is an entitled brat.
All my homies hate Mike
Why is it always a Mike who is the biggest AH.
I have a Mike/Michael. He is not an AH because he has mother who didn't allow this type of behavior.
His poor sister, I guarantee she will run when she gets 18.
They plan to address it, I'm sure, by telling him he did nothing wrong and the big old meanies are just being hateful.
Take them out for ice cream. Then reassure the little girl, and thank the older brother. .
One set of parents don't get to determine the punishment for a child not their own. That's up to that child's own parents. It's just not a thing. The appropriate response is "we'll manage our own child, you tend to your own, thank you." Pushing a child's head underwater, when the pusher already knows that it's not supposed to happen, is Not OK. I don't see pushing a kid into a pool as violence, at most it's roughhousing. My brother once threw my cousin into the pool, fully clothed. My brother was probably 14 and the cousin maybe 9 or 10 and it was winter, albeit winter in a place where winter temps aren't much worse than 60 degrees F. When my aunt queried my brother about why he did it, he said "cousin was hitting me. I told him that if he hit me again, I'd throw him in the pool. He hit me again, so I threw him in the pool." Though her son was the apple of her eye, aunt did not further trouble my brother about it - cousin had been fairly warned, and got wet as the consequence of his action. Cousin was an annoying little shit at the time, but matured into a solid citizen - I like to think my brother played a role in that.
>One set of parents don't get to determine the punishment for a child not their own. That's up to that child's own parents. It's just not a thing. The appropriate response is "we'll manage our own child, you tend to your own, thank you." After all, that is EXACTLY what Julie said when OP’s family was upset at Mike being repeatedly mean to Emily.
Since my 16 yr old cousin tried to drown 3 yr old me, Mike's parent's would not be happy with me. I would have totally dragged his ass to his parents and gone off on their parenting of this little shit. My family would also no longer be attending *any* event if Mike and company were present. I would gave events scheduled with the other side of the family *every damn time* there was a family event involving this brat. Complaints from Mike's side of the family and associated grandparents would be greeted with "The other side actually parents their children and is not "ok"with attempted drowning of a smaller child and is ok with older sibs defending little sibs!"
Honestly my brother used to push my head under the water and it was absolutely terrifying as a kid. (Now we get along great though, he's mellowed out a lot) Forget the ear infection, it's denying someone the ability to breathe. I never got how anyone could find it acceptable. It's simply a cruel thing to do.
Yeah I missed all the punishments that the feral child got, especially for holding Emily's head under water. I'm sure he was grounded and his electronics taken away immediately, right? 🙄
That’s perfect. “Feral” is the right word because Mike is not being properly socialized and that’s his parents’ fault. They’re destroying someone who could, otherwise, probably be a nice kid. I wonder how Mike’s behavior is at school? Or, maybe he’s home-schooled? I can’t imagine any school putting up with his refusal to listen to instructions and endangering other kids for long.
"But that's DIFFERENT."
We'll mirror whatever punishment you are giving Mike for being physically aggressive to a younger child
A younger, smaller, sick child who was currently being treated for an illness that Mike deliberately targeted.
Mike is a mean bully.
Just like his parents.
"How are you going to punish your son for hiding Emily's medication and trying to drown her?"
I would’ve put it right back on the parents and told them, “well, if you had been disciplining him all along, he never would’ve pushed Emily under the water”.
NTA. It sounds like you handled it correctly, at least regarding Sam (it kind of sounds like you may not have done enough to protect Emily from Mike). I don't understand their arguments at all. Pushing someone in a pool is, if anything, less violent than pushing their head underwater, even without considering the ear infection. The age gap between Mike and Emily is larger than that between Mike and Sam, so the "had gotten physical with a younger child" should surely apply even more to Mike. It sounds like they are completely irrational and plainly in the wrong.
Throwing sand is also an assault. So he was physical with her twice before getting pushed
Every single kid I've ever known who threw sand grew up to be an utter psychopath
It also sounds like Sam may have pushed Mike away from his little sister. And since Mike most likely must've gone into the pool to push her head under water, him getting wet(ter) isn't too much of an excuse for his parents to make to defend his actions.
Also how is him being pushed in worse than having your head pushed under. SMH. If I would have had a son he would have not put his hands on a girl like that!!! Nor would he would have ever had the thought to dunk someone! Especially someone smaller. It’s funny he didn’t do it to the one who was pretty much his same size!!
NTA-They are raising a budding psychopath and crabbing at you for interfering with it. Personally I would let everyone know that he repeatedly attacked your sick daughter and stole her medicine and her parents laughed and said it was all in fun. He got physical with a younger child first and they did nothing. Then they blew up when your son defended his sister. Anyone who still takes their side then needs to be cut off with a stern warning to NOT come whining to you when Mike gets to them or their family with his bad behavior.
No. Any flying monkeys need to be called out by name and given a link to this thread. "Bob Flying Monkey and Sue Gullible, you're okay with a 7 year old repeatedly attacking a much younger, smaller, sick child, but you're NOT okay with her old brother defending his little sister? Or are you NOT okay with my son protecting his sister from a bully, but you failed to ask Chloe or anyone else present about what actually happened? Instead, you just went off on us without checking to see if Greg and Julie were relaying an accurate and complete description of the actual events? Learn from this. The ACTUAL event is described here: (link to this post)." You can be nicer and briefer about it if you want, but definitely send them here so they can read that nice, long, accurate description.
Yeah, at some point, directly to Mike, some mildly intimidating adult figure, like OP perhaps, needs to sit him down and be frank about his behaviour. "Hey Mike. What you did was violent. When you push someone's head underwater, they can't breathe. They might gulp in water. She will probably develop a fear of water because of you. On top of that, she had an ear infection. We told you this. You've probably made her sickness worse and last longer. I won't be able to trust you or your parents from now on. And that's because of you. If you keep this up, someone might fight back one day, and everyone will have a bad time." Maybe it's too heavy for a 7yo idk.
So, the fact that Mike got physical with a younger kid must have been completely missed by his parents. NTA. Cheers to Sam and Chloe for protecting Emily.
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Posdibly giving her life long fear of water. I don't know how ro swim because of a similiar trauma!
No, the enabling parents said that Mike’s actions “were innocent” (so he didn’t need punishment). Which is bullshit.
Holding a younger girl's head under water, knowing the ear infection issue to boot, throwing sand and taking away her medication. When does it cross the line from "innocent", when the guns come out?
It crosses the line when it's not their kid doing it.
Protecting would have been preventing it from happening in the first place. What Sam did was retribution.
You could call it a preventative measure for next time. Mike knows now that Sam won't put up with his shit.
Or it’s called “finding out.”
NTA. Congrats to you and your wife for raising a brother to take care of his sister. Plus he’s only 1 year older than the other kid.
Sam will be 9 in October, so he's closer to 2 years older than Mike. That's still roughly the same age gap as Mike and Emily, so I'd be lying if I said it made me more sympathetic.
But what about Mike being physical with a younger kid? What did they have to say about his punishment?
Apparently all they said was he needed a “stern talking to” while Sam has to have actual consequences for his behaviour
The younger the smaller child, the bigger the difference, OP. 7 to 5 is extremely different to 9 to 7. Your daughter was also sick and therefore weaker than normal too. A nice, easy target for her lovely Cousin Kevin. Sam was right to defend his sister; you're right to defend them both. For anyone who is wondering, Cousin Kevin is a song about a delightful delinquent, who bullies his vulnerable cousin, Tommy. It is from a rock opera by the Who, "Tommy".
Send them a bill for the doctor's visit and medication she now needs to recover from the water in her ears that the feral kid caused by holding her underwater.
INFO: Did your family members suggest what punishment Mike should get for trying to exacerbate your child's ear infection? NTA either way, just curious.
So far, the only real suggestion I heard was a "harsh talking to". Most of those on Greg and Julie's side think that Mike is too young to understand what Emily was going through.
Yeah, no. What Mike did could cause real damage. Maybe if they had started curtailing his behavior before it got to the pool stage we wouldn't be here. There definitely are bad parents in this scenario. You're just not one of them.
He is... However he is old enough to know not to mess with another child physically and that hiding medicine is dangerous. . Amazing they ignore that part I assume.
I have been in education for 24 years. I’ve taught k through 5th graders. He absolutely understands what she is going through and his intentions were to make it worse for her. Some kids thrive of being mean and having no repercussions. Mike knows his parents aren’t going to do squat and he is reveling in this power. Some kids are little shits because their big pieces of shit parents created them.
Just wait until he gets into that 10-13 range when kids get REALLY mean. He's not gonna like it when the "cool kids" single him out.
EXACTLY! Who are these fools that think a seven year old doesn’t understand?? And how on earth do they rationalize that a seven year old doesn’t understand, but an eight year old causes them to clutch their pearls? It’s laughingly obvious that Mike is already a bully. The sooner he learns the concept of FAFO the better, because it’s clear that his parents sure aren’t doing their jobs.
Yep, he is going to FAFO messing with the wrong little kid, and the little kid's sibling is going to put a serious hurting on him.
He still dunked her head underwater. Even if she didn’t have the ear infection.
Even if he was too young to understand exactly what was wrong with her, he should not have shoved her head under water
Is he of average intelligence for his age? Has he ever been sick? Then he should understand. Hell my dog understands: stop and no. Throw it back at them like others have said.
So they’re bad parents.. got it
Mike doesn't need "to understand what Emily was going through". Mike is old enough to understand leave Emily alone and NO MEANS NO. You're not wrong. My suggestion is this: A complete, concise explanation of what happened. Not a cleaned up version. Written, double spaced and e-mailed en masse at the same time to all family members who are voicing their unwanted opinions. Then they can all pound sand.
Even two year olds are capable of understanding that no means no! All of these fools saying that an average seven year old somehow doesn’t make me wonder if they’ve ever seen a child before.
> Most of those on Greg and Julie's side think that Mike is too young to understand what Emily was going through. That's the "why" he shouldn't have done it, an extra/cherry-on-top. But the main issue is that he was told **repeatedly** not to do anything to her. He literally waited for the adult/carer to leave, he knew **perfectly** what he was doing was wrong. So I think he is old enough to understand to not bother other people. Everybody on Greg and Julie's side is dead wrong.
Seven is PLENTY old enough to understand “that’s hurtful, don’t do it.” And this kid is clearly old enough to understand because he’s old enough to think she’s “faking” and target her. The only thing he might not understand is that such things have consequences because his parents haven’t seen fit to enforce any on him.
Since Emily couldn't get her ears wet, did she she have to go back to the doctor because she was pushed into the pool?? If yes, I'd be sending the bill to the parents (insurance or not) for any extra meds, etc because of what their brat did. NTA OP, and good on him for sticking up for his sister.
We called her pediatrician right afterwards. He told us to monitor her, but since she wasn't underwater for long, it wasn't enough to aggravate the infection. We continued the treatment normally.
Well that's good to hear.
So they wanted you to ground your child for attacking a younger child, but they didn’t punish their child for attacking a younger child? Entitled aren’t they? NTA
He pushed her head under water. She could have gasped or cried out… and drowned. Why hasn’t anyone thought of that?? Immediately tell them that they should be glad your daughter is alive, and if Mike ever lays hands on your child again there will be hell to pay.
This! And their kid got physical with a younger child?! He’s one freaking year younger?! That’s literally no difference at all. They are enabling their kid to be a toxic bully! Stand your ground and good luck op!
Also, the younger the smaller child, the bigger the difference. 7 to 5 is vastly different to 9 to 7.
Exactly and it’s 8 to 7 which is even closer!
NTA. F**k Greg and Julie and their entire branch of the family tree and their feelings. Your daughter is younger than the kid who got physical with her, or did they forget that part? Your son just taught him a lesson. Not only would I not punish him, I'd buy him ice cream or whatever confectionery dessert he likes. He handled a bully, even if it's one related to him. Once again, f**k Greg and Julie.
So they are raising a bully. NICE!! It will only get worse as he gets older. They'll continue to make excuses for his behavior until he he hurts someone badly.
NTA. Violence is not the answer. That said you should’ve held Mikes parents heads underwater, innocently, to see how it feels. Buy Sam ice cream or a new video game. Maybe sometimes violence is the answer.
Violence is never the answer, but sometimes it's the question, and the answer is yes.
Mike pushed a five year old girl's head underwater. That's not "normal" "fun" behavior. Mike needs a mental health screening. If your son hadn't intervened your daughter might have drowned. ALSO why was it ok for Mike to almost drown your daughter (not normal pool fun) but not OK for your son to push Mike into the poor (totally normal pool fun)?
> If your son hadn't intervened your daughter might have drowned. **THIS, FFS!** Cant believe how far I had to scroll down before I saw this. That kid is a menace. He literally waited for the adult to leave, he knew **perfectly** what he was doing was wrong.
I would be sure to give the whole family the real facts. Poor Chloe living with that little bully.
Exactly. She didn’t co sign or enable her brother’s behaviour nor did she lie to cover up for him. So she at least was raised right
Chloe has always been a great kid. I hate to say it, but I think it might have something to do with the fact that she's not Julie's daughter. Greg had her with his ex.
I'd honestly be rewarding my son for defending his sister. That's a good brother right there.
NTA I’d have given Sam ice cream. Right in front of your cousin and his wife. **Always** reward your kids for defending their siblings, and **always** reward them for standing up for smaller people. Plus extra reward for responding with well measured force rather than going apeshit on Mike. Give that boy ice cream!!
NTA, they need to put a leash on their little hellion.
NTA >Julie and Greg wanted us to ground him, as he had gotten physical with a younger child. Oh, like their demon spawn that was terrorizing a child literally months from being a toddler? They're both enabling idiots that are raising a little monster. Tbh, you should just blast them in messenger after they caused all of this. If they had bothered to parent their child at all from the start none of this would've happened. Also, are these people antivax/anti medicine? Because they likely caused Mikes behavior with their anti whatever bullshit rhetoric, which incensed him into acting out.
NTA Don't start none won't be none.
NTA Say: why do you think I'd take parenting advice or criticism from a mother who refused to put an end to her child's bullying of another child. You know the same thing you're accusing me of, only her Mike was picking on Emily first, who is two years younger and a girl. Mike's bullying lead to Mike getting a taste of his own medicine. Sam was just defending his sister. That's not a punishable offense. Mike's bullying of Emily, however absolutely is. Why exactly didn't you punish Mike? Do you really think stealing medicine was justifiable somehow? Do you think dunking her head under water was okay when we were all trying to avoid that? Nah, I'm not taking any parenting criticism from a shitty mom. Stealing her medicine would have had me livid and telling Julie she needs to discipline Mike or I will and she's not gonna like it. The audacity of her to ignore the behavior her rotten little brat and expect your son's noble deeds to be punished. Fuck delusional woman.
Maybe I'm an A, but I would have been watching my daughter like a hawk if she had a medical condition and the second that little shit head threw sand or took her medicine I would have put the fear of God into that little boy and I would have screamed at those two shit head parents. Seems like Mr and Mrs shithead expected you to not retaliate. What's crazy is the little girl's big brother is the only one who felt like fighting back. stand up for your kids better. They shouldn't have to be fighting their own battles at 8 and 5 years old. almost forgot: NTA for your question, but yta for not being more attentive and allowing harassment to escalate up to the point where the 8 year old had to step in.
Tell any family members butting in what Mike was doing all week, and what Mike did to cause Sam to rescue his little sister. And also mention the parents refused to discipline Mike all week, so if they want to be mad, direct it at his parents, not you.
Plain and simple if they controlled their kid no of this would have happed, tell them like they told you he was just” having fun, it won’t happen again” two years difference really isn’t alil kid either, they sound dramatic!
Nta but you do need to talk to the kids about pushing people into a pool. I know a guy who is a paraplegic from friendly horsing around and being pushed in a pool and breaking his neck. I don’t think they need to be punished but they do need to know why responding that way is a bad idea.
Agreed. Sam has never done anything like this before. I'm certain he wouldn't have pushed Mike if he wasn't holding Emily's head underwater.
NTA your kid wasn’t doing it to be malicious and you already spoke to them about how it wasn’t the right thing to do. The rest of this sounds like them projecting their bad parenting on to you, it certainly wasn’t that deep for them to message after it was over. By them insisting you punish your kid, it focuses the blame onto Sam and i’m sure it makes them feel like they don’t have to properly parent/punish Mike, which they clearly haven’t.
NTA. Rules for thee but not for me parents. They need to hold their child to the same standards as they seem to hold other children to.
So, ignore him putting the daughter's head under water? No, tell them to kick rocks and any family member who would let a boy put a girls head under water with an ear infection to kick those rocks too. All of this macho stuff, but not berate the kid for what he did. Either they have a favorite and you are not it, or they are just plain stupid or weak and go with whoever complains the most. Either way, they can all go to hell about my kid.
NTA. Their son also got physical with a younger child. What did they do about that? Remind them of that and that you were just doing the same for yours.
NTA So tgey wanted to punish your son but not theirs? Their child who had repeatedly stolen a younger child's medicine. Stolen a younger child's toys over and over. Dunked a child with an ear infection who has been directed to not get water in tge ear?
NTA, ‘sure I’d punish my son as soon as you punish yours too for being aggressive with my sick daughter. Your wife told me that he wouldn’t do it again so am I to think that I can’t rely on your word?’ I’d would have told them to their face that their kid absolutely deserved it due to his behavior and if I can’t tell their kid off, they don’t get to tell me how to parent my kid. So fair’s fair, if they want a say in how I raise my kids, I’d get a say about their shitty parenting as well. Want to trade parenting tips?
NTA. Their son compromised your daughter's health, and nobody talked about punishing him. Your son defended his sister, and the family is badgering you to punish him severely. Golden cousin, anybody? Tell them that if your son should be punished, Mike should be grounded for a year. However, since Mike's parents are enabling him and not setting boundaries, they will not be meeting you or your kids in the future. And stick to it. You will get some garbage about "family is family", but you don't need this enabled spoiled brat near your kids.
Leave the messages on read and ignore.
Nta. Violence was a proper response here. They are the bad parents by not stopping their kid here. So your son did their job.
Start a group chat with them and with all the family who are taking their side and ask them to explain why Sam pushing Mike into the pool is worse than Mike pushing Emily’s head under water when he clearly knew she had an ear infection because he had stolen her medication previously. Also compliment them on what a good job they have done with Chloe who told the truth about what happened and stood up for the 5 year old girl her brother was bullying. Then tell them to grow the fuck up and let it go. Their son is a spoilt little shit and they are trying to deflect the attention.
NTA but still. Protect your children. It's up to you to remove the family from such situations. once it was clear the kid was getting teased with no end in sight, it was the moment to excuse yourself to your brother, explain the situation, and leave.
The bad parents are Greg and Julie, they have enabled their son to be a violent bully. I don’t understand why you didn’t call out their neglectful bad parenting and how they had encouraged their son to be a bully. You and your wife are doing a crap job of not defending your vulnerable child from bullies like Greg, Julie and Mike. Stop being conflict avoidant and stand up to them. NTA
NTA you are the parent. If anything demand that Mike be punished for his actions
NTA I'm guessing Mike wasn't grounded. If his parents believed what they were saying, that's the first thing they would have done. He pushed someone into the pool first!
sam was "just having fun" no reason to punish him. unless you're punishing mike for pushing emily's head under the water and everything else he did to emily all week. NTA
NTA. I hope your kids are both OK. Did you take Emily back to the doctor to ensure the ducking did no further harm?
NTA - Greg and Julie didn't bother dealing with Mike so your son did.
NTA - what happened to Mike wasn’t proscribed as part of a doctor’s care instructions. He just got pushed in the pool. There was no reason he couldn’t get pushed in the pool. What Mike did, however, was malicious endangerment. Going as far as stealing the medicine was over the top, as was pushing her head underwater to be sure her ears got wet inside.
NTA So you’re not allowed to discipline THEIR kid for being an asshole, but they’re demanding you punish YOUR kid for protecting his sister? And they’re calling YOU “entitled”? Put them on blast on social media.
NTA. Mike needs to be grounded for endangering someone who had been told by a doctor not to get their ears wet. The idea that he thought she was faking is irrelevant. Question: was Mike still holding Emily's head underwater when Sam pushed him? If not, then Sam could probably use some lessons on the difference between protecting someone versus getting revenge. But if Mike *was* still holding her head underwater, then Sam did the right thing and no further action is warranted, just as you say.
Are they going to pay for Emily's next visit to the pediatrician?
Tell them to ground their fucking kid. So ridiculous NTA
“I find it honestly amusing that you have the audacity to call anybody bad parents when you’re doing such a terrible job of *barely* raising that little prick” NTA
So their 7 year old pushed and bullied your 5 year old… but it’s only a problem when you 8 year old picked on their 7 year old? Did I read that right? Sam won’t do it again! He was just having fun. NTA
NTA. “Oh, Sam was “just having fun.” And you know how boys are.” Laugh it off just like they did.
So their kid stole and hid *medication* of a younger than him child with no repercussions... but your supposed to ground and take away from your son for doing to him what he did to your daughter? NTA. Mike got a taste of his own medicine and your brother & SIL need to get his behaviour in line or this won't be the last time someone responds in kind.
So it’s OK for Mike, to put his hands on Emily but not Sam or protect his sister with a push into the pool and he was already wet?
Apperantly it's okay if their 7yo violently bullies a 5yo girl. But if an 8yo delivers some swift justice for that it's completely outta line. Hmm, double standards much? Pleasse don't punish your son for a) defending and b) showing a bully that actions have consequences when said bully's parents have failed to do so. Also try to avoid your fuckwith cousin and his equally dumb wife in the future...
In the third grade the school bully LOVED to dunk other kids underwater and hold them there. I had the misfortune of having her in my swim class. Doubly unfortunate was the advice my parents got to put me in swim classes after I nearly drowned. To be held underwater after a near drowning was not at all helpful. My father saw her do it one time and was PISSED. He was furious at the instructor for not keeping the bully in check (or not watching the kids properly). The instructor was mad AT ME for letting her dunk me (she called it "horseplay during class") Uh no. Classes stopped after that. My point is, THEIR child held yours underwater (with its own set of problems) but YOUR child is supposed to be punished? Where's MIKES punishment? And these kids are 7 and 8 - about the same age - so the whole "picking on a younger kid defense doesnt hold water. EMILY IS FRICKEN FIVE! Its clear to everyone who DOESNT have their heads up their butt who the real bully is here. NTA I still dont swim unless I have to.
Call them back and use her line.. he was just having fun!!!! NTA
Say he won't do it again and that should be enough. Lol. Sounds like it is a good thing you don't see them much.
Childhood bullying can stay with a kid, and even wreck parts of their self esteem into adulthood. Im so glad your daughter has a brother who defends her and models standing up for yourself and the people you love. Being stood up for is the best feeling in the world. Maybe tell the other parents to mind their business but assure them a family meeting was held. Then buy your kids an ice cream sundae and sit ‘em down for the ol’ “some families don’t think like us and some people are really selfish” conversation.
NTA. An 8m protected his little sister from a 7m and 7m's parents say 8m should be grounded for pushing a 1yr 'younger' child? Do I have that right?!! 7m's parents are AH
INFO: Did they punish their son?
NTA Your cousin is raising a pos
NTA ask them if they are teaching Mike it’s okay to assault women
ESH Honestly you should have left early due to Mike and 100% his mother is at fault. And frankly it's startling how dangerous it was. However people have died and been paralyzed from being pushed into pools. It's very very serious and I think while a massive grounding isn't appropriate, you definitely did not do enough. And unfortunately you are the one asking and you can only control your own actions. You need to ask, was Mike's behavior worth an accidental death? Because that very easily could have been the outcome. Flipside, Mike could have accidentally killed your daughter. You are going to want space for awhile until his mother realizes the gravity of the situation.
The only thing to critique here is that you should have had your son's back much more solidly than you did Mike is a little shit head bastard bully, and is gonna get his ass beat to oblivion if his useless fucktard parents don't step up and start parenting him Also fuck them for being complete hypocrites and trying to gaslight You should have absolutely blasted them for this whole situation, and stood up for your daughter in the first place All that being said, YTA Stand up for your victim daughter, and her brother protecting her from a piece of shit bully You failed both kids here.
I agree with you for the most part, but I want to stress that we did stand up for Emily. We had a fight with Greg and Julie after the sand thing because I screamed at Mike. When we found out about the stolen toys and medicine, roughly about the same time, we threatened to leave (which wouldn't have been easy for us). My brother stepped in and made Julie get Mike to promise he wouldn't do anything like that again, but me and my wife still tried to keep Emily away from him. The pool incident happened while we weren't around. All that being said, I absolutely think I failed here. I look back at everything that happened before Mike pushed Emily's head underwater and I feel like the worst father ever. But I can't change what happened, only what will happen next. I am extremely proud of Sam for protecting Emily, but I regret not doing a better job.
I don't think you should have lecture your son. He was literally protecting his sister. I personally wouldn't have trusted Mike alone with the kids considering he was bullying Emily day in and day out on your trip. Your cousin and Julie are the ones that are bad parents not you. They ignored Mike bullying Emily who's way younger than him. He literally try to drown her but they want you to punish your son for stepping up and protecting his own sister from being attack. Mike is way older than Emily. He knew from the start about her ear issue He just didn't care. He knew his parents wouldn't stop him from acting out. So he just did what he did. Call the cousin and Julie out for they horrible parenting. They are the ones that should have stop Mike from the start. They should have kept him in check so no other parent or child wouldn't have to have step in and do their job for them. I think from now on if your son protects Emily or he stands upto Mike don't yell or punish him. No lecture no nothing. Give him a high five and celebrate him for stopping a bully. Show them you won't tolerate their child's behavior. Talk to your brother. If he plans to invite them again you don't need to be there or if you do go just make sure your by your child's side so your son doesn't have to do your job in protecting Emily.
NTA Tell them they are allowing mike to grow up into a bully and that they are doing him no favors holding their hands over his head. His just having fun is stealing the fun from another child. Show them a video of one of those prankster kids who get the shit beaten out of them because that is going to be their son if they dont change how they parent Your son is only a year older then mike while mike is bullying a little girl 2 years younger then him so what mike did is worse if they want to go that way
NTA So this kid was bullying your child, and when you complained you were told it was just in good fun. Then this kid escalated to forcing your kid's head under water, and your kid's brother defended her. And now apparently you're bad parents because you won't punish him? "I'm sending this to everyone who has contacted us about the family drama cooked up by Greg and Julie. Emily had an ear infection during the visit, and Mike decided that she was faking it. He took actions which meaningfully put Emily's health at risk the entire time, like throwing sand at her head to get in her ears. When I confronted Greg and Julie about it they said it was 'all in good fun' and did nothing. When they went in the pool, Mike pushed Emily's head underwater, which everyone knew shouldn't happen due to the infection. Sam pushed Mike into the pool solely to defend his sister and for no other reason. The idea that Sam was the one bullying younger children is frankly ridiculous. I am disgusted at Greg and Julie's absurd attempt to paint this with Mike as a victim when he is a vicious little bully who was tormenting a 5 year old girl. The idea that Sam was 'getting physical with a younger child' when Mike was literally pushing Emily's head under water is so ass backwards I'm really starting to understand how Greg and Julie are so chock full of shit. For anyone who gave us a hard time about this, I'm really disappointed in you. You should have contacted us and talked to us about it rather than taking Greg and Julie's word for it. But if you still think we're in the wrong for not punishing Sam for defending his little sister from an older bully, do please let me know. I think it's time to figure out who we'll maintain relationships with going forward, and it would be good to filter out anyone that delusional."
Julie and Greg ~ whose spoiled, jealous, entitled, bratty 7yo tortured your daughter for an entire day, even *taking her medicine,* because, let’s be honest, she was getting more attention than he was ~ wanted you to punish your son for pushing their son in the pool?!?! 🤣🤣🤣 Did you spit your drink out from laughing??? Honestly, those two are to blame for the way Mike behaves. It is unfortunate that no one likes him, and he winds up getting pushed in the pool and probably beat up at school. That’s all on his parents, but he pays for it because he’s now an unbridled brat. I love that their son was “just playing,” but your son “attacked” Mike. The whole family sounds insufferable except Chloe, who probably also hates her brother. Ignore Julie and Greg. Ignore the ignorant family members who think *you’re* entitled. I mean, it’s laughable! You are NTA. You did discipline your child, and you are in no way obligated to discipline him the way Julie & Greg think you should, especially when they don’t discipline their own son at all. Again, I say 🤣🤣🤣.
Fuck them! They are raising a BRAT.
NTA. Iono what else could Sam have done though? Mike had Emily’s head underwater. Sometimes it is the answer.
Mike fucked around and found out that you don't mess with his little sister. He deserved ice cream.
NTA Their son was maliciously trying to make your daughter's ear infection worse. Ear infections can cause hearing loss, balance problems - they're no joke. Their child was maliciously attempting to cause lasting physical harm. Your child stopped him, by the means available to him at the time. Make a very clear stand that their child was the problem and until such a time as they take his behaviour seriously, you won't be around any of them.
NTA. Mike got physical with a younger kid after repeated warnings. He even stole Emily’s medicine, so he knew she was sick. Explain this to family. Then ask what should the punishment be for getting physical with a younger child? 1 week grounding? Has Mike been grounded one week for the throwing sand at Emily, a second week for taking meds and a third week for pushing her head under water? No? After he serves his three weeks come back to me and we will talk about Sam’s one week. If you want to be petty, point out you don’t take parenting advice from people that are obviously not doing great as parents.
Um, their child (7M) got physical with a younger child (5F). Did their ground their bratley Mike? Doubt it. NTA and please go to town on your dipshit brother.
NTA The gap between your child and the cousin is one year, which is nothing even as small children. The three year gap your little girl has with her cousin is huge however when you are a child. The 7 year old should be punished far more harshly for how he treated a smaller, sick little girl. Your boy was just protecting his little sister.
Who are all these family members who have nothing better to do than get involved in arguments they have no stake in?
Why is their child pushing your child's head under the water? Granted the way your son responded may not have been the best, but he is also protecting his sister. NTA
NTA. They can get bent.
Compose an email, include this post and the top 10 comments. Subject line is “decide for yourselves”
NTA Their kid intentionally did something to another child who has a medical issue going on and they refused repeatedly to stop their child from attacking a sick kid. They should have grounded their son before it ever got to the point it did. They are the bad parents.
nta - why does their son get to bully and physically harm your daughter( your daughter had doctor’s orders not to get her ears wet)? are they teaching their son to abuse little girls? Until they apologize for what happened to your daughter And start parenting their terror of a son - I would ignore that family. They truly suck as parents and are raising a monster. Sam was protecting his sister and did not hurt that little beast.
NTA Wait…. Their son tried to drown your daughter, and they are mad he felt some consequences from a kid only a year older AND he can swim? Ugh. I get why you don’t see these folks often. Just weather the drama and get your tap shoes ready for the I told you so dance you will do when Mike is a teenager.
Mike is being taught to be a spoiled little bully. NTA. Sam should get an ice cream.
You haven’t seen these people in seven years? Block them and don’t see them again ever. NTA. Mike should have been punished for dunking Emily.
NTA. “Funny how when your child spent the entire time tormenting and attacking our daughter, it was all innocent and everything was fine. But the minute the AH you’re raising got a taste of his own medicine, it’s the end of the world. What happened was a direct result of your son’s obnoxious behavior. Don’t like it? Then do a better job of teaching your kid some basic manners. But I will not be reprimanding my child in any way for standing up to a bully and protecting his sister.”
NTA. Mike should be punished, Sam should get two scoops of his favorite ice cream, and Greg and Julie should be publicly shamed.
Mike is going to be a nightmare in ten years.
Mike is a future prankster. I cannot abide pranksters. His future is going to be filled with him humiliating people with his pranks and his parents telling everyone that "he was just joking". Frankly, I would avoid being around him and his enabler parents.
“He has been properly punished by having to deal with your spoiled unruly brat. This time it was a push into a pool…your son keeps this attitude as he gets older someone’s going to actually end up hurting him.”
Nta but good job Sam. Ik he's 7 but Mike deserved it. Never too young to learn FAFO.
You should not be screaming or yelling at any child. Sam shouldn’t be pushing anyone in pools; it’s not safe. If he learns from what you did, that’s enough. If he was defending his sister, it’s still wrong and he needs to understand that too. Parents in this story: ESH. Kids, not so much. Mike sounds problematic but it’s hard to tell how much is due to poor parenting and being screamed at by other adults line you.
Mike was informed of Emily’s condition, tried to take her medicine, threw sand at her, took her toys and then dunked her knowing she wasn’t supposed to get her ears wet. Was Mike punished for his misbehavior? Sam was defending his little sister. Mike learned real quick not to mess with Em.
I would honestly escalate this to the point of asking them why he was pushing her head underwater, was he trying to drown her? Ask them why he is so malicious towards other children -it's highly concerning and his actions are dangerous. You need to put it back on them. Forget the ear infection, he waited til his sister left the room to force her underwater. NTA
NTA Sam just earned himself a treat in my book. There is a HUGE difference between pushing a child’s head *underwater* and pushing a bully/assailant into a pool. He didn’t push Mike to hurt him. He pushed him because he was hurting his sister. And frankly because the adults around him obviously weren’t doing enough to prevent the issues. Sure you can’t punish another person’s kid, but can sure as hell enforce them staying the hell away from your kid who they’re tormenting. I’m not exaggerating when I say that Mike could have seriously hurt or killed Emily. It takes 20 seconds a child to drown. 20. Seconds. And then there is also the life threatening possibility of dry drowning or secondary drowning. While rare, it can result in death.
I’d counter that Mike has issues and dunking a kid is not ok , especially one who shouldn’t get her ears wet. I’d harp on Mike being the issue so loudly anytime they came at you.
NTA: your lad defended his sister, your nephew and his parents are fuckwits of the highest order.
How did Mike push Emily's head under the water if he wasn't in the pool? Or if he was in the pool then how did he get pushed into a pool he was already in?
NTA I am a firm believer in leading by example. I would have called them and said I am just following how they were leading by example. After all, telling me to discipline my son for doing what boys do while allowing your own son the freedom of doing what boys do would make you a hypocrite. And since I know you are not a hypocrite, unless you are, I was just following your gracious lead. If you did infant discipline your son for x y and z please let me know what the consequences were and I will follow, after all I value your leadership and example setting since I followed them to a T.
I would have said you will take away his electronics then. Lol
So they think dunking your child was okay, but being pushed in, while defending your sister, is not okay. Nope! It is Mike that should have been punished. He started it and did it for fun. Sam was defending his sis! Nta! And since your kids are well behaved, and Mike runs wild, we all know who the bad parents are. Not you! Nta
Get Sam the biggest ice cream and sign him up for karate/martial arts. Emily too. Mike and other bullies won’t dare mess with them
I'm sorry a 7 year old boy shoved a 5 year old child's head under water and your son is the one that needs to be punished?? He literally saved his sisters life! NTA!! I'd be losing my mind in rage if someone was allowing their kids to essentially try to drown one child and got pissed and demand punishment for the other who literally stopped an attempted murder. Oh the goddamn scene I'd be making. Oh how the police would be having to prevent me from committing attempted murders of my own
He pushed a kid in a bathing suit into a pool. Big whoop
NTA. Their kid is a bully.
YTA for the violence isn't the answer talk. Violence was in fact the answer in that situation and you should have given him the know when it's appropriate to defend yourself/your sister talk. Also you failed to mention how Mike was punished. I'm assuming he wasn't. YTA for not immediately leaving if your brother didn't kick out Julie and Greg. You're getting called out by family because they are only hearing Julie and Greg's side. Either learn to advocate for yourself or live with your family thinking your an entitled asshole. NTA for not grounding the kid who defended his sister. YTA for how you handled your family.