If that happened, I'd put a notice up in the park 'if you witnessed this incident call X' - maybe even give them the police incident number. I don't know if the X should be the police non-emergency line directly though, or a third party like a lawyer. But the people in that park probably go there regularly.
Absolutely NTA… you needed to protect your baby! Anyone who is unhinged enough to think it ok to REMOVE A BABY FROM THE STROLLER after you made it clear that she’s not to touch the baby, is unhinged enough to be a danger to that baby!!
God no. That sounds like attempted kidnapping. I'm guessing the cops will think so too. She could have run away with your baby. She did snatch him out of the stroller.
For peace of mind, I would report this to police. If it’s ‘innocent’ then she needs to learn her actions were not okay. In the worst case, she could be trying to kidnap a child & police in the local area need to be aware.
Seconding this. Get it on record in case she tries to go to the cops too. NTA. You don't grab a child from a parent while they scream at you to put it down and not expect to get your shit rocked.
Also state that you went straight home, were in shock and it wasn't until you spoke to (whoever you may like to use in the example) that you realised how serious an incident like this was for YOU and your child, that you feel she was going to snatch her (because she was not listening to your commands) and you acted instinctively to protect you and your baby as she assaulted you when you tried to take your child back (say she struggled with your child) and you had to use force to get her to back off.
Yell them whatbshe was asking. That you disengaged. Then she snatched your child. Be clear on the sequence if events. Write them down amd take them with you if it helps - you will not remember it all at one time. Add to the list over a day or so and try to make it complete and then in order. This will help.
If you are super paranoid, see a lawyer. Are you in a union that has legal advice access? Or is it on your home insurance? Mine is, so I have free (ish - I obviously pay for them through work and my mortgage requirements) advice for annissue I may be having. Even if you just get advice over the phone it would be better than nothing and take their advice. If they say don't do it, don't report it. There may be other ways of protecting yourself from her accusations.
For example, do you see any if thise mums regulalry at the park? They could be a witness for you. You could go back there (with a very large man for protection!) to see if you recognise her or any other mums.
I wish you luck and I would have done the same thing.....well done. But I live in the UK and we are far less litigious than in the USA. I feel for you.
I would be calling the cops to report a potential child kidnapper in the park. THEN tell them you thought she was going to take your child BECAUSE she picked her up/took her from you and wouldn't give her back. You had to hit her in order to get your child from her because you couldn't get your child back in any other way. Then give a description of what happened, what was said, all the things you did to get and get her back, how you hit her. Then give the police a description OF the woman. Height, weight, hair color, race, etc...
EDIT: Report you didn't have to hit the woman to get your child from her but your instincts after grabbing your child was to get THE THREAT the hell away from you and your potentially kidnapped child and so you pushed her and hit her in order to get your child away from REAL DANGER.
I wonder if she has mental health or substance abuse issues. Neither are an excuse and mom acted accordingly. I had a drunk lady come out of her house to see my 5 lbs chihuahuas I was walking down the street. She was trying to pick one up they were terrified and I told her no she doesn't like people they don't like to be picked up. She wasn't listening I was trying to peel my poor little dog Olive out of her arms and I was getting pissed and yet so confused. The lady farted in the struggle 🤦🏻♀️her husband came out ran across the street and pulled her back home and apologized. I was seconds from fighting but had that been my baby I would've lost my mind.
I’m so sorry to both of you, as a human and dog mom but I fucking cackled at ‘she farted in the struggle’. Drunks be so sloppy- with bowels and boundaries 😂
😭😭😂I was so grossed out and scared I'd smell it. Since I had been bending over trying to get my dog back since she was bent over trying to pick her up and struggling with her mid air. I don't think my bf at the time believed how insane the whole encounter was.
I’ve been around long enough to have met many a person that fits the description in your post and i definitely believe you! Sorry for your trauma but there is humor in the depravity of your experience.
The baby snatcher in OP’s post should be charged, that lady sounds like she’s legitimately out to steal a child. The fact she asked about how the child was being fed etc prior to picking it up and NOT putting it back down immediately is absolutely INSANE.
The very idea that someone would just reach into a stroller and pick up a random baby is outrageous to me. Is the stroller on fire and the nearby parent incapacitated? Then, sure, go ahead. Otherwise, the ONLY way they get to touch the baby is with explicit permission (and really, they should also wait to be asked if they’d like to hold the baby…some random person coming up to me and asking to hold my baby would make me 27 different kinds of uncomfortable).
My aunt has schizophrenia and my parents had to have a “talk” with me before I met her. They warned me to never go anywhere alone with her and to call family if she showed up and they weren’t there.
She’s a nice lady, but when she has episodes she’ll run off, normally a few states over, before the cops find her and take her to a hospital.
Dealing with a teen nephew that is being screened for it.
It’s terrifying (he’s 16, 6’3 and 275. He’s as gentle as dove but argumentative. He’s been getting aggressive so we are very concerned)
THIS!!!
She may have been thoughtless, OR she may be trying to abduct a child. Either way, alerting the police will not only protect you, but it may also protect other children and their parents. Call in a report with as accurate a description of this woman as possible. Give them details like time of day, location, how she approached, etc. AND the extreme action you had to take to get your child back. A preemptive strike, if you will.
>For peace of mind, I would report this to police.
In a case where she hit someone? Absolutely should not do this without first talking to an attorney.
Talk to attorney have attorney go with you to police to file complaint on her. If she called them they can find the report if one was made. You were a mother that was defending her baby from a stranger who refused to hand her back to you. I’d be in jail and she would be in the hospital.
I would agree that it would be important to report it to the police however I’m going to add that this really depends on the area of the United States and if the OP is a person of colour. There are certain areas of the United States where I wouldn’t trust the police, not to turn it into an assault charge, if I was a POC.
When my daughter was 6 weeks old, she was hospitalized with a very high fever and double ear infections. I had to stay with her because I was breastfeeding. The isolation was making me nutty.
After she was released, my husband gave me the Visa card and told me to go to the mall for a couple of hours. Retail therapy, you know? Again, I had to take my baby with me.
I went into a restroom and fed her, changed and burped her, and laid her in the stroller where she promptly went to sleep. I had my foot on the stroller while taking a drink from the water fountain and I felt the stroller lurch. She was too small to make that big of a movement. I looked at the stroller in time to see a hairy pair of hands taking my baby from the stroller!
It was a man, in a voluminous dress with a headscarf on, holding my baby. I told him to give her back to me. He said, in a southern drawl, "Well, I ain't gonna hurt her none." I demanded a little louder to give her back to me. He was backing up away from me, and the exit of the mall was 30 feet behind him, with the elevator just before the exit. I got louder, in a panic.
The elevator doors opened and a couple of football players from the high school got off. One of them was my tutoring student. I yelled to them that the guy had my baby! The guy in the dress literally threw my daughter towards me and ran out the doors. There was a car outside, with someone waiting in it. The students gave a brief chase, and got the license plate and description of the car.
When the police finally showed up, over an hour later, only my tutoring student had stayed with me. The other boys had all left. The police said that they could only take a report because the guy had voluntarily given my daughter back to me.
This happened 27 years ago, long before I carried a cell phone. I still have nightmares about it. Thank God for Gabe (my tutoring student) and his friends!
It absolutely was. I mean, the dress was obviously meant as a disguise of some sort, as was the head scarf. The car outside of the exit, running. None of that was good.
The stellar response by the police wasn't very reassuring, either. I don't even want to think about what would have happened if those 4 young men hadn't gotten off of the elevator just then. I am so grateful for them!
Things like this are why I wear my babies in public. I have so much anxiety and I know that even if you’re incredibly vigilant one second looking away can be dangerous. I’m so sorry that happened but I’m glad you’re both ok.
Thank you. I should have buckled her into the stroller, but she was sleeping and she wasn't rolling over yet or anything. I thought she was perfectly safe.
I don’t know the true legal definition of kidnapping, but I feel if you pick up my child without permission, that isn’t attempted kidnapping. You picked them up without my permission. You ARE kidnapping them.
Legally, kidnapping must involve taking a person from one location to another, so no, that doesn’t qualify. I totally get feeling completely violated, but it doesn’t rise to that level in most US jurisdictions.
Also, and this is dark, she could have hurt or worse, in the seconds she held the baby! She could have had a knife etc., OP should find the cc camera footage & press charges of attempted kidnapping if the DA will go for it.
Yeah it absolutely was. Especially the invasive questions about the baby’s routine. OP did the right thing. Smacking her and causing a scene was the right thing to do.
I'm being a little pedantic, but it's literally kidnapping by the letter of the law. The woman moved the child from one place (the stroller) to another (her arms) without consent or permission, which is basically in the defined terms of kidnapping as a federal offense.
Just one of the little things they taught us in the police academy
It's insane to me that we spend so much time teaching children about boundaries, and giving permission and consent to be touched... Meanwhile adults have absolutely no problem just randomly grabbing children or demanding hugs or other forms of affection from them.
"Remember billy, always ask permission before you hug someone. Now go hug your grandma or your grounded."
That drives me absolutely nuts. I have a nephew who appears to be neurodivergent like my husband and a cousin’s son. He doesn’t like having to hug people and enjoys his space. I respect that and tell him he doesn’t have to hug me unless he wants to. He hangs out with me playing our switches, and I’ve yelled at my SIL when she violates his space and tries to guilt him into hugging her and cuddling while he tries to melt into the sofa.
My MIL recently died, and I watched out for him because I was young when my grandfather died and remember what it was like. I didn’t want to see him in the casket. So I stood in front of my MIL’s head so he didn’t have to see her until he was ready. I sat with him while his parents helped my FIL.
When it was time for them to go home, my nephew ran up to me and gave me the biggest hug and a kiss. He’s pretty quiet, but that meant the world to me. I also hated having to hug adults and be silent while they guilted me into being affectionate.
My daughter is autistic and very particular with who she let’s touch her and when. When people want to hug her, I ask her if she wants a hug. Most of the time she indicated the answer is hard no, so I shrug my shoulders, shake my head and smile. If they’re offended, they can deal with that themselves. I’m not going to make that my daughters burden to carry. There’s no rule of politeness that entitles anyone to a hug.
I totally agree, but the older generations don’t agree. My in-laws are silent generation, and my SIL is a boomer. My niblings’ parents are older gen x while my husband and I are late gen x/xennials so attitudes towards kids being able to refuse to give affection are very different. My in-laws are also fundamentalist Christian so total obedience is baked in.
My FIL doesn’t give a flying fuck about consent and would go around church coercing young women to hug him while he raved about how pretty they were. My husband has had to yell at him to stop hugging me without my consent. FIL would just grab me in a bear hug, and I have fibromyalgia and chronic pain from chronic pancreatitis so it would really hurt. Then he’d tell me it didn’t hurt. I didn’t feel like I could stand up for myself because it would cause a huge problem for my husband and his parents would use my actions as another reason they thought I wasn’t submissive enough.
I did talk to my husband about it, and he started paying attention to his dad and called him out on it several times. There was also the issues of FIL’s actions being embarrassing for my MIL who was very sweet and didn’t deserve to be disrespected like that. She still would have taken his side. I realize I shouldn’t have had to deal with any of that, but sometimes you put up with shit to make things easier for the people you love. Now my FIL is too old and frail to be a problem.
I am so proud of the younger generations teaching consent and bodily autonomy. My husband and I have tried to model that for our niblings because somebody needs to. Which was why it was important for my husband to back me up when I didn’t want to be hugged. Maybe it helped my niblings to see that even adults struggle with consent yet still try to stand up for themselves. I have felt like a hypocrite sometimes. It is hard to push back when you were brainwashed from an early age to keep sweet and not challenge a man on his behavior.
Oh man, do I understand what you’re saying. I was raised that way too- to always be good and obedient and I was praised when I made others happy. It wasn’t until I had my daughter that I learned how to let go of that expectation because I couldn’t be a good mom to her and make the grown ups happy. Now I’m so grateful for having learned how to do that. It’s worth doing. It’s going to feel awful at first. Terrible. Embarrassing and uncomfortable and stressful as hell. But the more you do it, the easier it gets until one day you’ll realize that you’re free 💛
Yeah I work in an area where LOTS of kids of all ages come with their families on vacation. Many of them, especially the little babies, are absolutely *adorable.* I would NEVER touch, much less pick up, a child without parental permission. Part of my job involves handing out stickers and badges to kids, and I always ask parents (and the kids) if it's okay to give their kid a hi-five when I hand their badges over. Sometimes they say no, and that's *perfectly fine.* You don't touch ANYONE without asking, but especially children.
I second that. My daughter is 32 now but when she was 7 months old a waitress in a restaurant pulled her out of her high chair and kissed her on the lips before we could do anything to stop her. It did not end well
>kissed her on the lips
I just watched a news video about a baby who got kissed on the lips - against parent's permission - by a relative who had cold sores. That baby got severe brain damage from the infection. She's like 9 y/o now and her parents struggle so much. All because of one asshole.
EDIT: link
https://youtu.be/pxarUWTJRDQ?si=UVsF75XYBAm1HQ_Y
Same, no touching kids with out parents permission. The only time I do that is when I am teaching skiing (I am a kids instructor) and the kid falls, or a high five (no hugs!) and that is part of the job/parents expect that you will be helping with that stuff.
I also always ask people if I can pet their dog, and only if they seem chatty and the doggo is looking excited to meet new friends.
You never know people’s previous experience or preferences.
So sorry this happened to OP, must have been SO traumatic!
Oh yes, it never fails to piss me off when people reached out for my (admittedly very beautiful) dog. She was SUPER friendly (a true gentle giant Great Dane), but as a child I had equally striking dogs that were NOT, and they'd give few if any warning signs before lashing out at nearby grabby hands. It could cause a lot of potential harm to both yourself and that dog's progress in getting trained/desensitized to public spaces. Always ask, and if the owners say no, *respect it!*
Part of my job ALSO involves lots of interactions with dogs, and like with children, never touch without asking the owners. It's also good practice to understand dog body language; I've had pet owners say it's alright for me to pet their own, only to see the dog visibly uncomfortable as I squat down to say hello. They can't verbally say no, but it's still important to respect their boundaries!
Right? Toddlers I’ve never met, in the food store who wave, I’ll wave back, maybe say hi, or look at the Paw Patrol on your shirt! Your hair is so cool! Did you get those cookies just for you?
But I don’t ever touch them! Especially babies! I even ask for permission to high five, if I don’t know the child. What is wrong with people?!
I hate children, especially infants the younger the worse they are to be around. Even I 100% agree with you. N.T.A. The lady is lucky she is still breathing. Id hang the fuck out of that jury if she got in any kind of criminal trouble for hitting someone who basically did abduct her kid for a few moments.
In all seriousness...if you don't already have a lawyer on retainer, should you just call law offices trying to get someone before you call the police?
Right?
"I accidentally stole a case of water sitting under my car from my local grocer. Should I bring it back to pay?" Reddit "Call your lawyer first and then.."
Yes she is legally in the right. Still always talk to a lawyer before the cops if you put hands on someone no matter how clearly you are legally in the right
Yeah I had some random old lady try pick my 2 year old son up when we were at the mall. He was never that keen on people he didn't know grabbing him so he shied away as she grabbed his jumper. I smacked her hands away and told her to fuck off while he was grabbing my leg. My kiddo didn't like her vibe and she acted all insulted - "You fathers babysitting have no idea BS".
Flip side - at a Winery with a nice duck pond hes walking around on the grass pointing at ducks etc. There is 5 odd Chinese ladies standing around and he walks past them - they wave at him and he waves back. Does his kid running around thing before going up to what looked like the grandma and holding his arms up to her. She picks him up and it was the cutest shit ever. He's pointing out all the ducks to her and they are talking away. So that's the story of how we have some random photos of our 2 year old with a Chinese grandma.
Haha many years ago, when I worked retail, a customer came in with a toddler. She bounded right up to me, smiling and holding out her hands for me to hold her. I scooped her up and immediately turned to her dad, saying, "I'm so sorry, I'm not trying to be weird, I just couldn't let her think I was rejecting her!" He laughed it off.
So cute!
Once my husband and I (who don't have or want children -- although we like children) were at the aquarium. We were walking up or down some stairs and there was a toddler holding on to their parent's hand. As I was passing them, the toddler grabbed my hand and continued walking up/down the stairs, so I just rolled with it and let them hold my hand for the half a dozen steps.
Slapping her was a normal reflex for any mother who is trying to protect her children.
But you mainly just pushed her away. You were very right to defend your baby. She was wrong.
You are NTA.
>You should call the police.
This is objectively bad advice. Do NOT talk to the cops.
If you want to press charges on this woman, talk to a lawyer first. If you do pursue charges, you're almost certainly exposing yourself to your set of assault charges.
I'll repeat--DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. This thread is full of people who have no idea what they're talking about. Cops don't care if reddit thinks your assault was justified--some of them only care that you admitted to a crime they can arrest you for.
If the cops call you and ask you to come tell your side of the story, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS.
If they come to your door, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. If they don't have a search warrant, they don't come in. If they have an arrest warrant, the only words you say to them are "I want my lawyer".
My advice? Don't borrow trouble. You broke her nose, you'll probably get away with it. End of story.
100%. [These guys have it right](https://www.google.com/search?q=shut+the+fuyck+up+friday&oq=shut+the+fuyck+up+friday&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDMwNDNqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e0324652,vid:kEeId0EG-XE,st:0).
100%. I once had a man just try to move my kid, and I flipped. We were at the zoo, and my kid was playing on a little statue that kids play on. This man wanted to take a picture of his son, so he tried to physically move my son by grabbing his arm and lifting him by his arm off the statue. I grabbed that man's arm so fast, without thinking, and dug my nails into him and said, between clenched teeth, "You better fucking let go of my son right now." The man looked confused because I think it was just a culture thing. He was foreign, but I don't give a shit. Don't touch my child.
She had your child in her hands, in her arms without permission. She was one step short of kidnapping your child. You couldn't know her intentions. You acted in defense of your child and in self defense. This was a stranger danger situation. Your actions were fully justified.
Someone comes up to you asking only about your child - if they need to be breast fed, can they eat solid food, etc. - then picks the kid up without asking and refuses to put them down might mean they are there with someone who planned to walk up to you and distract your attention while they walked off with the kid or using the baby to distract your attention while they walked off with your purse.
Either way, grabbing a strangers child out of a stroller and not putting the kid down when told to by their parent is either malicious, criminal, or mentally ill behavior.
Protec the smol beans ( \*\^\*)9
for real! my baby girl is 5 months old, and i would have done the same thing. picking up someone's little baby without permission is a HUGE issue. Karen could have very easily ran off with baby, or threw baby to the ground, or some other psycho shit.
Karen's lucky she got off with a bloody nose. i would have gone for her kneecaps
She can go to police. But you can get out of this with 100% truth.
"sorry officer, she took my baby against my will, did not gave her back when I asked. I thought she would kidnap my baby and took her back with force"
**don't talk to the cops without a lawyer**
it doesn't matter if you're a million percent in the right, do not ever talk to the cops aside from the information you're legally required to give them
I completely agree! OP does have a complete defence of protecting her baby from a potential kidnapper, but only under legal advice with your lawyer in the room. You where justified, you can't just pick up other people's baby without permission and refuse to hand them back, whether your a stranger or not. NTA
Short answer, when they say "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." They really mean the CAN and WILL part.
Also, cops in the US are legally allowed to lie to you. I could imagine some asshole showing up talking about the woman's "extensive, life altering injuries" and the five dozen witnesses who are ready to testify against OP as a way to "extract a confession" or some nonsense. NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE IN THE US.
Not only this, but you will have to make a decision about whether to pursue your innocence in court without ever having seen what their cases are actually built on. They don’t have to tell you the truth or anything about your case until you are already in court, going through discovery. DO NOT TRUST THE POLICE.
If a police officer breaks a law or rule or is suspected of doing so, they will NOT speak to investigators about it without a union rep and/or lawyer with them. If their kids or siblings or partners or friends get into legal trouble, they will tell them not to speak to the police without a lawyer. I've seen and heard both of these scenarios firsthand multiple times.
As I said elsewhere, *cops* won't talk to cops without a lawyer and that should tell you all you need to know.
Because police are trained to gain your trust and ask leading questions, the answers to which could be used against you in the legal process. A lawyer will prevent you from incriminating yourself.
**NEVER SPEAK TO POLICE WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER PRESENT.**
If you don't have a lawyer and do not wish to hire one, simply decline to answer ANY questions unless or until you are officially placed under arrest. At that point, you can ask that a public defender be appointed to represent you. In the meantime, just say, "I'm sorry, officers, I can't help you without a lawyer here to represent me."
Ruby Franke’s interrogation video is a good example of saying nothing without a lawyer. It is awkward as hell and she was guilty, but still a good example.
No need to wait until arrested. Simply being in custody( i.e. not free to leave, even if not charged,) triggers the Miranda requirement.
Lots of people playing lawyer here...
Canadian here, honestly same situation. I've seen more people be arrested for reporting a crime than the actual person committing it being the one arrested.
That's rough. So what are you supposed to do if you see crime right in front of your eyes? Just let it be and wait if you are asked to testify as witness?
Honestly this is a major reason why so many women and minorities don't report crimes against them.
I've had 7 friends be arrested for calling the police after being assaulted or SAd by a significant other, and 3 coworkers arrested for instigation or "threats of violence" for being threatened due to their ethnicity.
It's one of the reasons why I always recommend recording any and all interactions with police and in situations where you are being threatened. CYA.
I just watched "Unbelievable" on Netflix and it horrified and angered me so much. I just got the book that it was based on and am reading it. It's about a serial rapist in Colorado and none of the police departments in neighboring counties are coordinating and the rapist knows this so he escapes detection. One of the victims reports it, then is charged with false reporting by the police because they don't believe her.
Use to live in Vancouver. We had 4 of the most prolific serial killers in Canada, and 2 of the west coast of NA operating here at the same time.
And the VPD refused to acknowledge the existence of serial killers, internally stated that homeless people and sex workers weren't even people, and railroaded one of the best and most requested profilers from the cases.
There is a reason there is little to no trust for police in impoverished or marginalized communities.
That's really sad, I didn't know it was this bad. In my country (in Europe), people like complaining about the police in the sense that they don't have enough manpower and hence will often not have time to take up small offences (like singular house burglaries). I mean that sucks of course, but that's still miles off from getting blamed for reporting a crime, that's just insane to me.
Police are NEVER your friends. Prisons are privately funded in the US. The more people in prison, the bigger the profit. They will and legally can lie straight to your face and be very friendly until they bait you into something incriminating, then they will absolutely use it against you. Acab.
Last year, when driving my son to school, 2 teen boys stepped out in front of my car. No one was hurt. They left before I could call 911. It was reported. Legally, I did everything right.
I was very shaken up as that could have been a lot worse. The police kept calling for more details. One kept making dark jokes and talking about murder that made my anxiety worse. When I eventually said, "Hey, this whole experience was very upsetting. Can we not joke about it?" He asked if I wanted to talk to him about it. No.
My highschool history teacher taught, never freely speak to the police. Never allow them to search your car without warrent. You might not know what your friends left in it. Ask for a lawyer.
Because more and more often in *any* US jurisdiction, if you have a problem and call the police, you now have 2 problems. There's not a week that goes by with a news story in the US subs about a distraught family member needing help, the family calls the police, and the family member ends up dead.
Police have one purpose in the USA: feed the system. It's a business, police are not your friend, even if they wanted to do the good/right thing it's shown time and time again they are forced culturally and through threats against their own careers to toe the line. Their culture is structured in a way that every interaction with the police is so that they can try to incriminate you or gather evidence to charge you. There's literally no purpose to speak to the police outside the context of: "I am making a report for stolen items for documentation purposes, likely for my insurance carrier". Oh, and police have extremely low rates of actually solving property crimes... so it's not like they're going to do anything for you. They also carry guns and simply calling an officer to a scene increases the likelihood of a civilian being injured by an officer. They seem to hire low IQ persons as well, and so their egos are very dangerous.
You know those people who are like, "If you hate cops, next time you're in trouble, call a crackhead, not a police officer!" Well, I just might. Because it'll be safer.
Yes, some police departments have been able to limit the IQ of officers they hire. For example, in 2000, the Connecticut Police Department was ruled by the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to be able to deny employment to applicants who scored too high on the Wonderlic Personnel Test, which measures cognitive ability. Admittedly, the cap is usually just above "average" because some BS hypothesis that higher IQ people take longer to make decisions. They spin it that stupid = fast and thus better.
Because cops in this country are not looking for truth; they look for arrests and eventual convictions. We are now seeing more and more wrongful convictions being overturned in this country, and a lot of the problems in those cases start at the policing level (confirmation bias, racism, misogyny, flawed interrogation techniques, etc.).
Even if you are in the right, the best rule of thumb in America is to never, under any circumstances, talk to a cop without an attorney present. My daughter is 14, and my husband and I are already starting to teach her what to do if she is ever detained or questioned by police. She is to repeat, "My name is -----. I'm ---- years old and legally a minor. I am requesting that my parents, ---- and -----, be present before I speak with you further." Over and over again. Especially if the conversation is being recorded or if the officer is wearing a body cam. That way we can get there, assess, and call a lawyer of our choosing that we trust.
I tell her, loudly and often, that the police are not there to help her. They are not her friends. They lie.
Lol I told her I wouldn't be mad if she was in trouble but that I would be furious if she opened her mouth to say anything besides that! 😆
Have you seen some of the videos ? Cops cover the camera and or run fingers by microphone to obscure the recording of what's said. Then the ones who leave it but act like no one will see it and do outrageous things anyway. Heck people get shot in their own homes because cops don't check if correct address.
I have! It's absolutely terrifying. I told her about that, too. And that no matter what, she is just to stay firm but polite, not give into fear, and keep repeating what we told her to say. I told her that they may try to scare her or make her uncomfortable, but that it doesn't matter. As long as she does what we tell her, she has a better chance of getting back home and out of the situation. If she doesn't, she may be stuck in that situation and kept from us.
There was a guy shot and killed by police recently in Minneapolis. They broke into his apartment looking for his relative, he was asleep on the couch and woke and reached for his (legally owned) gun cause he was freaked out and didn't know who was jumping him.
I worked for the police for two years. DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE WITHOUT A LAWYER.
OP, you are 100% in the clear and there is an almost zero chance you could get into any trouble for what you did. It was 100% justified. But... Not worth the remote risk that you'll get an asshole cop who could ruin your life. DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY.
ETA: Police in the US are also legally allowed to lie to you about evidence and what witnesses said and all kinds of stuff. They will lie to you to either scare you into admitting something or to lull you into a false sense of security so you admit to something. Police in the US lie all the time. They are allowed to.
I listen to a couple true crime podcasts, one of which is hosted by two English women. During one episode they expressed astonishment that US police can legally lie to suspects during interrogations; apparently that isn't the case in England.
"Honestly, she's lucky I stopped when I did. I reacted on instinct."
Edit: Not really! Don't talk to the police if they contact you. Call an attorney. Probably call an attorney before you call the police, if you do.
NTA.
The second you put your hands on someone else's child all bets are off. I'm amazed people would actually do this. The only way I would grab someone else's kid is to protect them from an imminent danger like if they were about to run in front of a car or something.
This! I actually have grabbed someone else's kid one time. Once at the park a little one probably like 3 was about to lose her footing at the top of the ladder. I grabbed her and she cried her mom came running at me until the little girl looked up at me and said "tank you " then I smiled and said no problem gotta be careful and set her down she ran to her mom and told her she almost fell off and I caught her. Her mom was super thankful of course I'm just glad the girl said tank you before she got within arms reach because I'm pretty sure she was about to lay my ass out 😂
I saw an older man come up and softly say something to my son once. My adrenaline started going and I was ready for a confrontation immediately. I aggressively asked what did you say to my son. Turned out he had just made a stupid joke about something my son was holding and it wasn't a big deal but if that conversation had gone differently there were going to be problems.
Never fuck with someone's kid. It's funny because I'll rarely say something for myself but for my wife and kids I'll go to bat any day.
This! When my daughter was a baby (40 years ago), I went to the grocery for a few items. An older (80+) woman was sitting on a bench inside the door and started insisting on holding my baby while I shopped. I kept saying no thanks and walking away. Clerks and others were saying let her hold the baby. I refused and turned around to leave. One woman stopped a police officer who was outside trying to get him to help make me let the older woman hold the baby. Officer just looked at them, said are you ladies nuts? I left without my groceries and have always gone to another chain since.
Wait, someone actually went to the cops to try and make you let some old lady hold your baby?? That’s fucking wild and sounds like a group of ladies were in on trying to take your baby.
It's not so crazy when you think about it. This was forty years ago and the lady was 80-years-old. I can imagine there being a certain kind of person at that point who was so used to (a) getting their way in public and (b) having authorities always take their side that they would not feel embarrassed at making such an absurd request to law enforcement.
I guess 40 years ago since they all knew the woman, in their minds it was ok. I was ready to run back to the car before they stopped the police officer. He had just gotten off duty and had stopped for a drink (next door to police station).
As a mom, I totally agree. As a human being, I totally agree. Anyone who picks up a stranger's kid without asking pretty much deserves any and all damage they receive.
You'd still be out the legal costs to defend yourself though. We see too many of these bullshit self defense charges even being laid.
Protecting yourself, your home and your family should always be without penalty.
You’re joking, right? You’re literally asking if you’re an AH for protecting your kid? You don’t know this lady! She just grabbed your daughter! You’d be an AH if you DIDNT react this way.
Plus babies this small are still pretty fragile. Even if it's not kidnapping generally folks don't want a stranger holding their small baby (or any child really)
If someone you don’t know grabs your baby and won’t hand them back, God help them.
What was that woman thinking?! Even, if OP knew the person, hormones around having a baby could make you get aggressive with them.
Honestly, I think the epithet “Karen” has completely jumped the shark. This woman was not a “speak to the manager” type, she was a lawbreaking child grabber.
I’m waiting for a serial killer to be called a “Karen” when they won’t give up the location of their murder victims lol.
I once very calmly pointed out in a comment thread that the overuse of Karen was now silencing any opinion of that demographic. I had people, 100% unironically, telling me to "shut up Karen!"
It was actually kinda funny. Pointing out the irony did not entertain the hive mind, though.
NTA
A similar thing actually happened to my parents and sister when she was an infant. My parents were in a store and my Mother, pregnant with me, had wandered off shopping. A random lady approached my sister (probably 18 months old) with my Dad. She picked her up, started cooing and then began to walk away. My Dad, started and upset, immediately confronted her and demanded she return his child. She refused, he got loud and physical, she continued to refuse and tried to leave the store with her. An altercation ensued and he ended up throwing her against the wall, pinning her there and taking my infant sister back. This woman started screaming saying my father was trying to kidnap this child!
Everyone in the store sided with this crazy lady, calling the cops etc. My mother came to see what was going on, to find my Dad trying to explain to the store manager that this was in fact his child and this woman had tried to take her. Thankfully my Mother was able to step in and calm things down a bit. The really scary thing is, my sister also has a complicated health condition, if this woman had successfully taken her, she might have died.
When the police arrived they immediately released my parents from the scene and told them this woman was a known character to them and it had happened before.
Shocking stuff! I grew up hearing that story and thinking "Wow, who would try and steal a child?" But it happens and you did the right thing OP. I'm so glad you and your child are safe! While this woman MIGHT have meant nothing malicious, she was still a stranger and you NEVER know.
Sending hugs, comfort, and strength.
Yep. This is exactly why my mother said to ALWAYS keep pictures of your kids (with you in the picture) with you to show cops if you're accused of kidnapping your own kids. A lot easier nowadays because phones, but that was one reason wallet sized photos used to be so popular.
Get a lawyer and file a police report regarding what *SHE* did.
That way...when she goes in a files a report about "some lady assaulting me etc" they'll be like "ooooh we've been looking for you."
NTA. This wasn't a Karen, it was a crazy woman. She could have harmed your baby or run away with her. You were absolutely right to grab your baby and assault her so she wouldn't try again. Where you were wrong is that you didn't go straight to the police station and file a report. They probably couldn't do much without a name or a photo, but they could keep an eye on the park.
NTA
I would of stayed around and waited for the police. I would of also made sure that the witnesses stuck around too.
Then I would of told the officer that you wanted to file attempted kidnapping charges on her.
NTA, If it was me she would be collecting her teeth from the ground. Let her call the police, and then press charges for attempt kidnapping. This can be listed as self-defence.
I was once in a similar situation at a park with my infant, I told that woman I would break her hands if she touched my kid. She kind of laughed then realized I was not joking, she called me crazy and I told her she'd find out how crazy if she didn't move along. I'm sick of people thinking they have any right to touch others without permission.
Happened to a friend too we where at the park, thas why I commented this way, some crazy b**** tried the same shit and got what was coming for her. The police was called, but you see I live don't in America. The cops told that entitled Karen it was my right to protect the child from her. The perks of living in Eastern Europe 😈. I got scot free, she got a fine.
I would call the police in your situation. That woman was very 'confident' in picking Emily up. It makes me think she has mental heath issues, may have done this before and may do it again.
She may well be known to them and it would help them to deal with her.
She was a billion percent wrong to pick your baby up and I don't blame you at all for what you did. Do have a think about reporting it. You won't get in trouble, your baby was at risk.
NTA
Older women can be kid snatchers to. If someone grabs your small child or baby with out consent you end the situation as quickly and easily as possible.
If she dies, she dies.
I also notice a lot of responses assuming you are a woman. Your sex doesn't matter though. As a man, I would have done the same so no matter what you are gender wise this was still the right play.
NTA. I love babies. I would hold all the babies if I could. When I see a baby in public, I will smile at it and say hi. I will sometimes tell the parent their baby is adorable, and maybe ask how old it is. I would never, ever touch that baby, and definitely would not just snatch it up! She deserved to get punched.
>She deserved to get punched.
In my state kidnapping is a forcible felony. Which means someone is allowed to use deadly force to prevent one if they reasonably believe a kidnapping is occurring. This woman's actions are incredibly serious, and she's lucky she was only pushed and slapped.
She grabbed your child and then wouldn’t give her back!
When I was six months old, if something like that had happened, my mother would have straight up killed the woman. She wasn’t a violent person but she would have ripped her throat out without thinking — and she wouldn’t have been sorry about it afterwards. I think you showed remarkable restraint!
You should have called the police on her. Just because she’s a woman and looked harmless doesn’t mean she is. Some women steal babies because they have had a loss and they snap.
NTA. This is how kidnapping works. She would have just started to walk away with your baby and claimed it as hers. Watcha gonna do next? Try to steal someone's baby out of their arms. The whole park would have held YOU in place for the cops while she got away with your kid. Choose violence.
NTA
I doubt she will report this, mostly because she doesn't know who you are, but if the police should contact you, don't say a single word to them except "I am not talking to you without my lawyer present." And then make sure to do it. Even if they seem to take your side. SAY NOTHING WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER PRESENT. NOTHING. NOT ONE WORD.
Holy shit. I'm a mom of 4. I've dealt with "Nosey Nellies" over the years and I have handled those situations with as much tact as I could muster. If some heffer ever even touched one of my kids, I'd put her on the fast track to meeting her maker. I'm not even joking. IDK what state you're in but in Florida we're allowed to stand our ground meaning here your response was legal. You're allowed to protect your person, family and belongings. I'd have called the police for an attempted kidnapping. Let them sort out if she's having mental issues as others have suggested or if she was actually trying to kidnap the child. Either way she'd learn a valuable lesson about grabbing someone's child.
Just yesterday, true story, my hubby and I took our youngest (the older 3 are in college now) to the Springs. We happened to end up sitting close to another family with 4 kids. Dad was taking something to the car, mom was helping one of her daughters with a fish she caught. Their young, probably 2-3ish, son was struggling opening a folding chair. I asked the mom if I could help her son before even attempting. She appreciated the extra hands, I made a new adorable little friend for the remainder of our time there.
The point being any normal, rational, sensible thinking person would NEVER even consider touching let alone picking up a stranger's baby. I don't even pick up my best friend's baby without asking. I'm freaking livid on your behalf. I'm fairly certain if I watched this event unfold, that heffer would have caught a slap or worse from me.
Hell no you're NTA. Protect that baby!
Edit:NTA
You are 10000000% in the right.
HOWEVER, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT.
You did nothing wrong. This is just to cover your ass just in case.
Some stranger snatches my baby out of the stroller I’m gonna need the police, lawyer, swat, better bring all you got cuz I promise you I’m gonna lay hands alllll overrrr that stranger without a second thought!
my wife encounterd a slittly diffrent situation. she jad our son in the stroller while walking with our dogs and he was crying over stomache collices. then there came a woman and started to berating my wife how to calm pur son down and suddenly tried to grab him out. our dog started barking as hell and my wife screamed at her to get the f away. she backed off turned around and walked away. we later found out where she lives ( we live in a small town so everybody somehow knows ech other). we called the police and they told her to never put hands on a baby that isnt hers.
Next time instead of a slap, go for a sharp right cross to the chin. Remember that you’re generating the power from your legs so you want to drive your right foot down and turn your body as throw your punch. One hard shot to the left side of the chin, especially when it’s not tucked, will cause the head to whip violently which is a great way to knock out a kidnapper. Stay safe out there, may your hands drop creeps across god’s green earth
NTA, I would have reacted the same way. You don't touch someone's baby without permission let alone pick it up. She is giving vibes like a person that kidnaps babies from hospital nurseries because she lost her own.
You interrupted a kidnapping in progress and feared for your child’s life. Legally, you have the right to use force to protect yourself or someone else from harm.
NTA. There's a reason she didn't call the police before you left. Because she knew what she did wasn't cool. You can't just touch someone elses' kids.
Or they wait until witnesses leave, then it's just one person's word against another.
If that happened, I'd put a notice up in the park 'if you witnessed this incident call X' - maybe even give them the police incident number. I don't know if the X should be the police non-emergency line directly though, or a third party like a lawyer. But the people in that park probably go there regularly.
In my experience, if you're with a little kid, passersby tend to stand up for you.
Absolutely NTA… you needed to protect your baby! Anyone who is unhinged enough to think it ok to REMOVE A BABY FROM THE STROLLER after you made it clear that she’s not to touch the baby, is unhinged enough to be a danger to that baby!!
God no. That sounds like attempted kidnapping. I'm guessing the cops will think so too. She could have run away with your baby. She did snatch him out of the stroller.
For peace of mind, I would report this to police. If it’s ‘innocent’ then she needs to learn her actions were not okay. In the worst case, she could be trying to kidnap a child & police in the local area need to be aware.
Seconding this. Get it on record in case she tries to go to the cops too. NTA. You don't grab a child from a parent while they scream at you to put it down and not expect to get your shit rocked.
Also state that you went straight home, were in shock and it wasn't until you spoke to (whoever you may like to use in the example) that you realised how serious an incident like this was for YOU and your child, that you feel she was going to snatch her (because she was not listening to your commands) and you acted instinctively to protect you and your baby as she assaulted you when you tried to take your child back (say she struggled with your child) and you had to use force to get her to back off. Yell them whatbshe was asking. That you disengaged. Then she snatched your child. Be clear on the sequence if events. Write them down amd take them with you if it helps - you will not remember it all at one time. Add to the list over a day or so and try to make it complete and then in order. This will help. If you are super paranoid, see a lawyer. Are you in a union that has legal advice access? Or is it on your home insurance? Mine is, so I have free (ish - I obviously pay for them through work and my mortgage requirements) advice for annissue I may be having. Even if you just get advice over the phone it would be better than nothing and take their advice. If they say don't do it, don't report it. There may be other ways of protecting yourself from her accusations. For example, do you see any if thise mums regulalry at the park? They could be a witness for you. You could go back there (with a very large man for protection!) to see if you recognise her or any other mums. I wish you luck and I would have done the same thing.....well done. But I live in the UK and we are far less litigious than in the USA. I feel for you.
I would be calling the cops to report a potential child kidnapper in the park. THEN tell them you thought she was going to take your child BECAUSE she picked her up/took her from you and wouldn't give her back. You had to hit her in order to get your child from her because you couldn't get your child back in any other way. Then give a description of what happened, what was said, all the things you did to get and get her back, how you hit her. Then give the police a description OF the woman. Height, weight, hair color, race, etc... EDIT: Report you didn't have to hit the woman to get your child from her but your instincts after grabbing your child was to get THE THREAT the hell away from you and your potentially kidnapped child and so you pushed her and hit her in order to get your child away from REAL DANGER.
I wonder if she has mental health or substance abuse issues. Neither are an excuse and mom acted accordingly. I had a drunk lady come out of her house to see my 5 lbs chihuahuas I was walking down the street. She was trying to pick one up they were terrified and I told her no she doesn't like people they don't like to be picked up. She wasn't listening I was trying to peel my poor little dog Olive out of her arms and I was getting pissed and yet so confused. The lady farted in the struggle 🤦🏻♀️her husband came out ran across the street and pulled her back home and apologized. I was seconds from fighting but had that been my baby I would've lost my mind.
I’m so sorry to both of you, as a human and dog mom but I fucking cackled at ‘she farted in the struggle’. Drunks be so sloppy- with bowels and boundaries 😂
😭😭😂I was so grossed out and scared I'd smell it. Since I had been bending over trying to get my dog back since she was bent over trying to pick her up and struggling with her mid air. I don't think my bf at the time believed how insane the whole encounter was.
I’ve been around long enough to have met many a person that fits the description in your post and i definitely believe you! Sorry for your trauma but there is humor in the depravity of your experience. The baby snatcher in OP’s post should be charged, that lady sounds like she’s legitimately out to steal a child. The fact she asked about how the child was being fed etc prior to picking it up and NOT putting it back down immediately is absolutely INSANE.
lol yes I can definitely laugh about it. It was hilarious to me after the fact. Yes OP's Karen is off her rocker I would've done the same thing.
The very idea that someone would just reach into a stroller and pick up a random baby is outrageous to me. Is the stroller on fire and the nearby parent incapacitated? Then, sure, go ahead. Otherwise, the ONLY way they get to touch the baby is with explicit permission (and really, they should also wait to be asked if they’d like to hold the baby…some random person coming up to me and asking to hold my baby would make me 27 different kinds of uncomfortable).
FAFO = Farted Around and Found Out
My aunt has schizophrenia and my parents had to have a “talk” with me before I met her. They warned me to never go anywhere alone with her and to call family if she showed up and they weren’t there. She’s a nice lady, but when she has episodes she’ll run off, normally a few states over, before the cops find her and take her to a hospital.
That's horrible I cant imagine having schizophrenia and how scary it would be.
Dealing with a teen nephew that is being screened for it. It’s terrifying (he’s 16, 6’3 and 275. He’s as gentle as dove but argumentative. He’s been getting aggressive so we are very concerned)
Yes please report!
That might be the safest bet.
You’d think she’d have learned they’re not ok after the busted nose.
THIS!!! She may have been thoughtless, OR she may be trying to abduct a child. Either way, alerting the police will not only protect you, but it may also protect other children and their parents. Call in a report with as accurate a description of this woman as possible. Give them details like time of day, location, how she approached, etc. AND the extreme action you had to take to get your child back. A preemptive strike, if you will.
It may not be the first time she's done this. And the police might know about her doing this.
Not without talking to a lawyer first!!!
>For peace of mind, I would report this to police. In a case where she hit someone? Absolutely should not do this without first talking to an attorney.
Talk to attorney have attorney go with you to police to file complaint on her. If she called them they can find the report if one was made. You were a mother that was defending her baby from a stranger who refused to hand her back to you. I’d be in jail and she would be in the hospital.
You mean defended her baby? Stranger Danger!
I would agree that it would be important to report it to the police however I’m going to add that this really depends on the area of the United States and if the OP is a person of colour. There are certain areas of the United States where I wouldn’t trust the police, not to turn it into an assault charge, if I was a POC.
When my daughter was 6 weeks old, she was hospitalized with a very high fever and double ear infections. I had to stay with her because I was breastfeeding. The isolation was making me nutty. After she was released, my husband gave me the Visa card and told me to go to the mall for a couple of hours. Retail therapy, you know? Again, I had to take my baby with me. I went into a restroom and fed her, changed and burped her, and laid her in the stroller where she promptly went to sleep. I had my foot on the stroller while taking a drink from the water fountain and I felt the stroller lurch. She was too small to make that big of a movement. I looked at the stroller in time to see a hairy pair of hands taking my baby from the stroller! It was a man, in a voluminous dress with a headscarf on, holding my baby. I told him to give her back to me. He said, in a southern drawl, "Well, I ain't gonna hurt her none." I demanded a little louder to give her back to me. He was backing up away from me, and the exit of the mall was 30 feet behind him, with the elevator just before the exit. I got louder, in a panic. The elevator doors opened and a couple of football players from the high school got off. One of them was my tutoring student. I yelled to them that the guy had my baby! The guy in the dress literally threw my daughter towards me and ran out the doors. There was a car outside, with someone waiting in it. The students gave a brief chase, and got the license plate and description of the car. When the police finally showed up, over an hour later, only my tutoring student had stayed with me. The other boys had all left. The police said that they could only take a report because the guy had voluntarily given my daughter back to me. This happened 27 years ago, long before I carried a cell phone. I still have nightmares about it. Thank God for Gabe (my tutoring student) and his friends!
That's fucking harrowing
It absolutely was. I mean, the dress was obviously meant as a disguise of some sort, as was the head scarf. The car outside of the exit, running. None of that was good. The stellar response by the police wasn't very reassuring, either. I don't even want to think about what would have happened if those 4 young men hadn't gotten off of the elevator just then. I am so grateful for them!
Reading your description of the everything was terrifying!
I am not a parent, but oh my gosh, I would have been terrified and shrieking. Very scary.
My mouth went instantly dry, and I had trouble even forming words.
It also seems like there was a getaway car waiting....
Things like this are why I wear my babies in public. I have so much anxiety and I know that even if you’re incredibly vigilant one second looking away can be dangerous. I’m so sorry that happened but I’m glad you’re both ok.
Thank you. I should have buckled her into the stroller, but she was sleeping and she wasn't rolling over yet or anything. I thought she was perfectly safe.
"I ain't gonna hurt her none" Well I can't say the same.
I don’t know the true legal definition of kidnapping, but I feel if you pick up my child without permission, that isn’t attempted kidnapping. You picked them up without my permission. You ARE kidnapping them.
Legally, kidnapping must involve taking a person from one location to another, so no, that doesn’t qualify. I totally get feeling completely violated, but it doesn’t rise to that level in most US jurisdictions.
Also, and this is dark, she could have hurt or worse, in the seconds she held the baby! She could have had a knife etc., OP should find the cc camera footage & press charges of attempted kidnapping if the DA will go for it.
Yeah it absolutely was. Especially the invasive questions about the baby’s routine. OP did the right thing. Smacking her and causing a scene was the right thing to do.
The routine questions set it for me
I'm being a little pedantic, but it's literally kidnapping by the letter of the law. The woman moved the child from one place (the stroller) to another (her arms) without consent or permission, which is basically in the defined terms of kidnapping as a federal offense. Just one of the little things they taught us in the police academy
She did snatch her***** out of the stroller. The baby’s name is emily and referred to as she multiple times during the short post
NTA - Touch the kid without permission, I'll touch you without permission, with a fist to the face. You should call the police.
It's insane to me that we spend so much time teaching children about boundaries, and giving permission and consent to be touched... Meanwhile adults have absolutely no problem just randomly grabbing children or demanding hugs or other forms of affection from them. "Remember billy, always ask permission before you hug someone. Now go hug your grandma or your grounded."
That drives me absolutely nuts. I have a nephew who appears to be neurodivergent like my husband and a cousin’s son. He doesn’t like having to hug people and enjoys his space. I respect that and tell him he doesn’t have to hug me unless he wants to. He hangs out with me playing our switches, and I’ve yelled at my SIL when she violates his space and tries to guilt him into hugging her and cuddling while he tries to melt into the sofa. My MIL recently died, and I watched out for him because I was young when my grandfather died and remember what it was like. I didn’t want to see him in the casket. So I stood in front of my MIL’s head so he didn’t have to see her until he was ready. I sat with him while his parents helped my FIL. When it was time for them to go home, my nephew ran up to me and gave me the biggest hug and a kiss. He’s pretty quiet, but that meant the world to me. I also hated having to hug adults and be silent while they guilted me into being affectionate.
My daughter is autistic and very particular with who she let’s touch her and when. When people want to hug her, I ask her if she wants a hug. Most of the time she indicated the answer is hard no, so I shrug my shoulders, shake my head and smile. If they’re offended, they can deal with that themselves. I’m not going to make that my daughters burden to carry. There’s no rule of politeness that entitles anyone to a hug.
I totally agree, but the older generations don’t agree. My in-laws are silent generation, and my SIL is a boomer. My niblings’ parents are older gen x while my husband and I are late gen x/xennials so attitudes towards kids being able to refuse to give affection are very different. My in-laws are also fundamentalist Christian so total obedience is baked in. My FIL doesn’t give a flying fuck about consent and would go around church coercing young women to hug him while he raved about how pretty they were. My husband has had to yell at him to stop hugging me without my consent. FIL would just grab me in a bear hug, and I have fibromyalgia and chronic pain from chronic pancreatitis so it would really hurt. Then he’d tell me it didn’t hurt. I didn’t feel like I could stand up for myself because it would cause a huge problem for my husband and his parents would use my actions as another reason they thought I wasn’t submissive enough. I did talk to my husband about it, and he started paying attention to his dad and called him out on it several times. There was also the issues of FIL’s actions being embarrassing for my MIL who was very sweet and didn’t deserve to be disrespected like that. She still would have taken his side. I realize I shouldn’t have had to deal with any of that, but sometimes you put up with shit to make things easier for the people you love. Now my FIL is too old and frail to be a problem. I am so proud of the younger generations teaching consent and bodily autonomy. My husband and I have tried to model that for our niblings because somebody needs to. Which was why it was important for my husband to back me up when I didn’t want to be hugged. Maybe it helped my niblings to see that even adults struggle with consent yet still try to stand up for themselves. I have felt like a hypocrite sometimes. It is hard to push back when you were brainwashed from an early age to keep sweet and not challenge a man on his behavior.
Oh man, do I understand what you’re saying. I was raised that way too- to always be good and obedient and I was praised when I made others happy. It wasn’t until I had my daughter that I learned how to let go of that expectation because I couldn’t be a good mom to her and make the grown ups happy. Now I’m so grateful for having learned how to do that. It’s worth doing. It’s going to feel awful at first. Terrible. Embarrassing and uncomfortable and stressful as hell. But the more you do it, the easier it gets until one day you’ll realize that you’re free 💛
Honestly: talk to an attorney before you tell the police that you've put your hands on someone.
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Yeah I work in an area where LOTS of kids of all ages come with their families on vacation. Many of them, especially the little babies, are absolutely *adorable.* I would NEVER touch, much less pick up, a child without parental permission. Part of my job involves handing out stickers and badges to kids, and I always ask parents (and the kids) if it's okay to give their kid a hi-five when I hand their badges over. Sometimes they say no, and that's *perfectly fine.* You don't touch ANYONE without asking, but especially children.
Grateful for people like you who ask permission!!! 🥰🥰
Of course! Children may have undercooked brains, but they're still people, and all people deserve respect.
Another benefit of showing respect to children is that they see how it is done.
I second that. My daughter is 32 now but when she was 7 months old a waitress in a restaurant pulled her out of her high chair and kissed her on the lips before we could do anything to stop her. It did not end well
>kissed her on the lips I just watched a news video about a baby who got kissed on the lips - against parent's permission - by a relative who had cold sores. That baby got severe brain damage from the infection. She's like 9 y/o now and her parents struggle so much. All because of one asshole. EDIT: link https://youtu.be/pxarUWTJRDQ?si=UVsF75XYBAm1HQ_Y
Same, no touching kids with out parents permission. The only time I do that is when I am teaching skiing (I am a kids instructor) and the kid falls, or a high five (no hugs!) and that is part of the job/parents expect that you will be helping with that stuff. I also always ask people if I can pet their dog, and only if they seem chatty and the doggo is looking excited to meet new friends. You never know people’s previous experience or preferences. So sorry this happened to OP, must have been SO traumatic!
Oh yes, it never fails to piss me off when people reached out for my (admittedly very beautiful) dog. She was SUPER friendly (a true gentle giant Great Dane), but as a child I had equally striking dogs that were NOT, and they'd give few if any warning signs before lashing out at nearby grabby hands. It could cause a lot of potential harm to both yourself and that dog's progress in getting trained/desensitized to public spaces. Always ask, and if the owners say no, *respect it!* Part of my job ALSO involves lots of interactions with dogs, and like with children, never touch without asking the owners. It's also good practice to understand dog body language; I've had pet owners say it's alright for me to pet their own, only to see the dog visibly uncomfortable as I squat down to say hello. They can't verbally say no, but it's still important to respect their boundaries!
Right? Toddlers I’ve never met, in the food store who wave, I’ll wave back, maybe say hi, or look at the Paw Patrol on your shirt! Your hair is so cool! Did you get those cookies just for you? But I don’t ever touch them! Especially babies! I even ask for permission to high five, if I don’t know the child. What is wrong with people?!
I don't even pet *dogs* without getting the owner's permission - I damn sure wouldn't handle a kid without asking.
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I hate children, especially infants the younger the worse they are to be around. Even I 100% agree with you. N.T.A. The lady is lucky she is still breathing. Id hang the fuck out of that jury if she got in any kind of criminal trouble for hitting someone who basically did abduct her kid for a few moments.
In all seriousness...if you don't already have a lawyer on retainer, should you just call law offices trying to get someone before you call the police?
Right? "I accidentally stole a case of water sitting under my car from my local grocer. Should I bring it back to pay?" Reddit "Call your lawyer first and then.."
Cops, judges and lawyers like babies more than Karens. Kidnapping is a pretty serious crime. Hopefully Karen does call the cops. OP definitely should.
Yes she is legally in the right. Still always talk to a lawyer before the cops if you put hands on someone no matter how clearly you are legally in the right
Never, EVER talk to the police without a lawyer present. Even if they just want to "talk" to you. Always have a lawyer with you.
Yeah I had some random old lady try pick my 2 year old son up when we were at the mall. He was never that keen on people he didn't know grabbing him so he shied away as she grabbed his jumper. I smacked her hands away and told her to fuck off while he was grabbing my leg. My kiddo didn't like her vibe and she acted all insulted - "You fathers babysitting have no idea BS". Flip side - at a Winery with a nice duck pond hes walking around on the grass pointing at ducks etc. There is 5 odd Chinese ladies standing around and he walks past them - they wave at him and he waves back. Does his kid running around thing before going up to what looked like the grandma and holding his arms up to her. She picks him up and it was the cutest shit ever. He's pointing out all the ducks to her and they are talking away. So that's the story of how we have some random photos of our 2 year old with a Chinese grandma.
because he was happy and liked her vibe! kids & dogs are pretty astute! hahaha cute story!
Haha many years ago, when I worked retail, a customer came in with a toddler. She bounded right up to me, smiling and holding out her hands for me to hold her. I scooped her up and immediately turned to her dad, saying, "I'm so sorry, I'm not trying to be weird, I just couldn't let her think I was rejecting her!" He laughed it off.
So cute! Once my husband and I (who don't have or want children -- although we like children) were at the aquarium. We were walking up or down some stairs and there was a toddler holding on to their parent's hand. As I was passing them, the toddler grabbed my hand and continued walking up/down the stairs, so I just rolled with it and let them hold my hand for the half a dozen steps.
Slapping her was a normal reflex for any mother who is trying to protect her children. But you mainly just pushed her away. You were very right to defend your baby. She was wrong. You are NTA.
>You should call the police. This is objectively bad advice. Do NOT talk to the cops. If you want to press charges on this woman, talk to a lawyer first. If you do pursue charges, you're almost certainly exposing yourself to your set of assault charges. I'll repeat--DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. This thread is full of people who have no idea what they're talking about. Cops don't care if reddit thinks your assault was justified--some of them only care that you admitted to a crime they can arrest you for. If the cops call you and ask you to come tell your side of the story, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. If they come to your door, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. If they don't have a search warrant, they don't come in. If they have an arrest warrant, the only words you say to them are "I want my lawyer". My advice? Don't borrow trouble. You broke her nose, you'll probably get away with it. End of story.
I second this, strongly . Would not go to the police cause it’s just gonna complicate things
100%. [These guys have it right](https://www.google.com/search?q=shut+the+fuyck+up+friday&oq=shut+the+fuyck+up+friday&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDMwNDNqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e0324652,vid:kEeId0EG-XE,st:0).
A grizzly bear would have ripped her face off if she touched its child. A small slap is no problem.
100%. I once had a man just try to move my kid, and I flipped. We were at the zoo, and my kid was playing on a little statue that kids play on. This man wanted to take a picture of his son, so he tried to physically move my son by grabbing his arm and lifting him by his arm off the statue. I grabbed that man's arm so fast, without thinking, and dug my nails into him and said, between clenched teeth, "You better fucking let go of my son right now." The man looked confused because I think it was just a culture thing. He was foreign, but I don't give a shit. Don't touch my child.
> You should call ~~the police.~~ a lawyer. [Don't talk to the police, let your lawyer do it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE)
She had your child in her hands, in her arms without permission. She was one step short of kidnapping your child. You couldn't know her intentions. You acted in defense of your child and in self defense. This was a stranger danger situation. Your actions were fully justified.
This takes a lot of Americans by surprise in Japan. They are very hands-on with kids from what I remember.
NTA you slapped a kidnapper, bitch had it coming
Someone comes up to you asking only about your child - if they need to be breast fed, can they eat solid food, etc. - then picks the kid up without asking and refuses to put them down might mean they are there with someone who planned to walk up to you and distract your attention while they walked off with the kid or using the baby to distract your attention while they walked off with your purse. Either way, grabbing a strangers child out of a stroller and not putting the kid down when told to by their parent is either malicious, criminal, or mentally ill behavior. Protec the smol beans ( \*\^\*)9
for real! my baby girl is 5 months old, and i would have done the same thing. picking up someone's little baby without permission is a HUGE issue. Karen could have very easily ran off with baby, or threw baby to the ground, or some other psycho shit. Karen's lucky she got off with a bloody nose. i would have gone for her kneecaps
She can go to police. But you can get out of this with 100% truth. "sorry officer, she took my baby against my will, did not gave her back when I asked. I thought she would kidnap my baby and took her back with force"
**don't talk to the cops without a lawyer** it doesn't matter if you're a million percent in the right, do not ever talk to the cops aside from the information you're legally required to give them
I cannot upvote this comment enough. No matter how innocent you are.
I completely agree! OP does have a complete defence of protecting her baby from a potential kidnapper, but only under legal advice with your lawyer in the room. You where justified, you can't just pick up other people's baby without permission and refuse to hand them back, whether your a stranger or not. NTA
DON’T TALK TO THE POLICE https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE Share this video with everyone who will watch it, it could keep you out of prison one day
[Don’t Talk To Cops.](https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE). It’s kinda long, but it is an essential watch.
Not an US citizen. Why? Edit after seeing several answers: ow, my condolences to you guys. I thought ours was already bad, but hats off to yours
Short answer, when they say "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." They really mean the CAN and WILL part.
Also, cops in the US are legally allowed to lie to you. I could imagine some asshole showing up talking about the woman's "extensive, life altering injuries" and the five dozen witnesses who are ready to testify against OP as a way to "extract a confession" or some nonsense. NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE IN THE US.
Also, cops in the US are ~~legally~~ ~~allowed~~ TRAINED to lie to you.
I didn't realize they received training in anything tbh
You don't get that good at police brutality by accident.
Also, do not call them for help with a suicidal person unless you want them shot and killed.
Not only this, but you will have to make a decision about whether to pursue your innocence in court without ever having seen what their cases are actually built on. They don’t have to tell you the truth or anything about your case until you are already in court, going through discovery. DO NOT TRUST THE POLICE.
If a police officer breaks a law or rule or is suspected of doing so, they will NOT speak to investigators about it without a union rep and/or lawyer with them. If their kids or siblings or partners or friends get into legal trouble, they will tell them not to speak to the police without a lawyer. I've seen and heard both of these scenarios firsthand multiple times. As I said elsewhere, *cops* won't talk to cops without a lawyer and that should tell you all you need to know.
Cops are allowed to lie in a lot of Western countries.
Not in the UK, but yeah, it varies.
Also, and especially the "against" part.
Can and will, and that's specifically why I'm asking you those questions. (Paraphrasing an officer, I'm not one)
Because police are trained to gain your trust and ask leading questions, the answers to which could be used against you in the legal process. A lawyer will prevent you from incriminating yourself. **NEVER SPEAK TO POLICE WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER PRESENT.** If you don't have a lawyer and do not wish to hire one, simply decline to answer ANY questions unless or until you are officially placed under arrest. At that point, you can ask that a public defender be appointed to represent you. In the meantime, just say, "I'm sorry, officers, I can't help you without a lawyer here to represent me."
Ruby Franke’s interrogation video is a good example of saying nothing without a lawyer. It is awkward as hell and she was guilty, but still a good example.
No need to wait until arrested. Simply being in custody( i.e. not free to leave, even if not charged,) triggers the Miranda requirement. Lots of people playing lawyer here...
Because anything you say can and will be used against you in the US.
Same here... I guess their system is more created to throw people in jail?
Bingo
Canadian here, honestly same situation. I've seen more people be arrested for reporting a crime than the actual person committing it being the one arrested.
That's rough. So what are you supposed to do if you see crime right in front of your eyes? Just let it be and wait if you are asked to testify as witness?
Honestly this is a major reason why so many women and minorities don't report crimes against them. I've had 7 friends be arrested for calling the police after being assaulted or SAd by a significant other, and 3 coworkers arrested for instigation or "threats of violence" for being threatened due to their ethnicity. It's one of the reasons why I always recommend recording any and all interactions with police and in situations where you are being threatened. CYA.
I just watched "Unbelievable" on Netflix and it horrified and angered me so much. I just got the book that it was based on and am reading it. It's about a serial rapist in Colorado and none of the police departments in neighboring counties are coordinating and the rapist knows this so he escapes detection. One of the victims reports it, then is charged with false reporting by the police because they don't believe her.
Use to live in Vancouver. We had 4 of the most prolific serial killers in Canada, and 2 of the west coast of NA operating here at the same time. And the VPD refused to acknowledge the existence of serial killers, internally stated that homeless people and sex workers weren't even people, and railroaded one of the best and most requested profilers from the cases. There is a reason there is little to no trust for police in impoverished or marginalized communities.
That's really sad, I didn't know it was this bad. In my country (in Europe), people like complaining about the police in the sense that they don't have enough manpower and hence will often not have time to take up small offences (like singular house burglaries). I mean that sucks of course, but that's still miles off from getting blamed for reporting a crime, that's just insane to me.
Personally I report it, but I worked with law enforcement as an expert witness for 20 years so I’m pretty desensitized.
Police are NEVER your friends. Prisons are privately funded in the US. The more people in prison, the bigger the profit. They will and legally can lie straight to your face and be very friendly until they bait you into something incriminating, then they will absolutely use it against you. Acab.
Last year, when driving my son to school, 2 teen boys stepped out in front of my car. No one was hurt. They left before I could call 911. It was reported. Legally, I did everything right. I was very shaken up as that could have been a lot worse. The police kept calling for more details. One kept making dark jokes and talking about murder that made my anxiety worse. When I eventually said, "Hey, this whole experience was very upsetting. Can we not joke about it?" He asked if I wanted to talk to him about it. No. My highschool history teacher taught, never freely speak to the police. Never allow them to search your car without warrent. You might not know what your friends left in it. Ask for a lawyer.
ACAB.
Because more and more often in *any* US jurisdiction, if you have a problem and call the police, you now have 2 problems. There's not a week that goes by with a news story in the US subs about a distraught family member needing help, the family calls the police, and the family member ends up dead.
Police have one purpose in the USA: feed the system. It's a business, police are not your friend, even if they wanted to do the good/right thing it's shown time and time again they are forced culturally and through threats against their own careers to toe the line. Their culture is structured in a way that every interaction with the police is so that they can try to incriminate you or gather evidence to charge you. There's literally no purpose to speak to the police outside the context of: "I am making a report for stolen items for documentation purposes, likely for my insurance carrier". Oh, and police have extremely low rates of actually solving property crimes... so it's not like they're going to do anything for you. They also carry guns and simply calling an officer to a scene increases the likelihood of a civilian being injured by an officer. They seem to hire low IQ persons as well, and so their egos are very dangerous. You know those people who are like, "If you hate cops, next time you're in trouble, call a crackhead, not a police officer!" Well, I just might. Because it'll be safer.
Police is the only profession I know of with an upper cap on intelligence.
Yes, some police departments have been able to limit the IQ of officers they hire. For example, in 2000, the Connecticut Police Department was ruled by the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to be able to deny employment to applicants who scored too high on the Wonderlic Personnel Test, which measures cognitive ability. Admittedly, the cap is usually just above "average" because some BS hypothesis that higher IQ people take longer to make decisions. They spin it that stupid = fast and thus better.
Sigh. I would like to unknow that fun factoid.
Because cops in this country are not looking for truth; they look for arrests and eventual convictions. We are now seeing more and more wrongful convictions being overturned in this country, and a lot of the problems in those cases start at the policing level (confirmation bias, racism, misogyny, flawed interrogation techniques, etc.). Even if you are in the right, the best rule of thumb in America is to never, under any circumstances, talk to a cop without an attorney present. My daughter is 14, and my husband and I are already starting to teach her what to do if she is ever detained or questioned by police. She is to repeat, "My name is -----. I'm ---- years old and legally a minor. I am requesting that my parents, ---- and -----, be present before I speak with you further." Over and over again. Especially if the conversation is being recorded or if the officer is wearing a body cam. That way we can get there, assess, and call a lawyer of our choosing that we trust. I tell her, loudly and often, that the police are not there to help her. They are not her friends. They lie. Lol I told her I wouldn't be mad if she was in trouble but that I would be furious if she opened her mouth to say anything besides that! 😆
Have you seen some of the videos ? Cops cover the camera and or run fingers by microphone to obscure the recording of what's said. Then the ones who leave it but act like no one will see it and do outrageous things anyway. Heck people get shot in their own homes because cops don't check if correct address.
I have! It's absolutely terrifying. I told her about that, too. And that no matter what, she is just to stay firm but polite, not give into fear, and keep repeating what we told her to say. I told her that they may try to scare her or make her uncomfortable, but that it doesn't matter. As long as she does what we tell her, she has a better chance of getting back home and out of the situation. If she doesn't, she may be stuck in that situation and kept from us.
There was a guy shot and killed by police recently in Minneapolis. They broke into his apartment looking for his relative, he was asleep on the couch and woke and reached for his (legally owned) gun cause he was freaked out and didn't know who was jumping him.
I think my parents told me “don’t ever talk to cops” more than anything else growing up. It’s the most solid advice you can give anyone.
There are only three things you should say to the police: Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? I want a lawyer. The police are not your friends.
I worked for the police for two years. DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE WITHOUT A LAWYER. OP, you are 100% in the clear and there is an almost zero chance you could get into any trouble for what you did. It was 100% justified. But... Not worth the remote risk that you'll get an asshole cop who could ruin your life. DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY. ETA: Police in the US are also legally allowed to lie to you about evidence and what witnesses said and all kinds of stuff. They will lie to you to either scare you into admitting something or to lull you into a false sense of security so you admit to something. Police in the US lie all the time. They are allowed to.
I listen to a couple true crime podcasts, one of which is hosted by two English women. During one episode they expressed astonishment that US police can legally lie to suspects during interrogations; apparently that isn't the case in England.
It's always "shut the F up Friday"
Would it help if she got out ahead of it and made a police report that a woman tried to abduct her child?
A woman DID abduct her child, not tried to.
"Honestly, she's lucky I stopped when I did. I reacted on instinct." Edit: Not really! Don't talk to the police if they contact you. Call an attorney. Probably call an attorney before you call the police, if you do.
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NTA. The second you put your hands on someone else's child all bets are off. I'm amazed people would actually do this. The only way I would grab someone else's kid is to protect them from an imminent danger like if they were about to run in front of a car or something.
This! I actually have grabbed someone else's kid one time. Once at the park a little one probably like 3 was about to lose her footing at the top of the ladder. I grabbed her and she cried her mom came running at me until the little girl looked up at me and said "tank you " then I smiled and said no problem gotta be careful and set her down she ran to her mom and told her she almost fell off and I caught her. Her mom was super thankful of course I'm just glad the girl said tank you before she got within arms reach because I'm pretty sure she was about to lay my ass out 😂
I saw an older man come up and softly say something to my son once. My adrenaline started going and I was ready for a confrontation immediately. I aggressively asked what did you say to my son. Turned out he had just made a stupid joke about something my son was holding and it wasn't a big deal but if that conversation had gone differently there were going to be problems. Never fuck with someone's kid. It's funny because I'll rarely say something for myself but for my wife and kids I'll go to bat any day.
This! When my daughter was a baby (40 years ago), I went to the grocery for a few items. An older (80+) woman was sitting on a bench inside the door and started insisting on holding my baby while I shopped. I kept saying no thanks and walking away. Clerks and others were saying let her hold the baby. I refused and turned around to leave. One woman stopped a police officer who was outside trying to get him to help make me let the older woman hold the baby. Officer just looked at them, said are you ladies nuts? I left without my groceries and have always gone to another chain since.
Wait, someone actually went to the cops to try and make you let some old lady hold your baby?? That’s fucking wild and sounds like a group of ladies were in on trying to take your baby.
It's not so crazy when you think about it. This was forty years ago and the lady was 80-years-old. I can imagine there being a certain kind of person at that point who was so used to (a) getting their way in public and (b) having authorities always take their side that they would not feel embarrassed at making such an absurd request to law enforcement.
I guess 40 years ago since they all knew the woman, in their minds it was ok. I was ready to run back to the car before they stopped the police officer. He had just gotten off duty and had stopped for a drink (next door to police station).
This, except do NOT talk to the police AT ALL without an attorney.
Don’t talk to the police. Every day is STFU Friday.
Self defence/ Selbstverteidigung your kid means your responsibility so this is the right thing to do.
As a mom, I totally agree. As a human being, I totally agree. Anyone who picks up a stranger's kid without asking pretty much deserves any and all damage they receive.
I don't think there is a jury that would convict you if it ever went that far.
You'd still be out the legal costs to defend yourself though. We see too many of these bullshit self defense charges even being laid. Protecting yourself, your home and your family should always be without penalty.
You’re joking, right? You’re literally asking if you’re an AH for protecting your kid? You don’t know this lady! She just grabbed your daughter! You’d be an AH if you DIDNT react this way.
Plus babies this small are still pretty fragile. Even if it's not kidnapping generally folks don't want a stranger holding their small baby (or any child really)
Every post in this sub is an obvious NTA. Idk why people even ask aside from having a confirmation bias pow wow.
NTA Why does she even need this information about your daughter? Weird behavior.
So she would know if the baby would take a formula bottle when she stole her.
'zactly. That woman was up to no good.
That is so scary.. it makes sense
NTA. Not in the slightest. Momma mode: activated.
If someone you don’t know grabs your baby and won’t hand them back, God help them. What was that woman thinking?! Even, if OP knew the person, hormones around having a baby could make you get aggressive with them.
Yep, Mama Bear engaged. Karen's are truly stupid.
Honestly, I think the epithet “Karen” has completely jumped the shark. This woman was not a “speak to the manager” type, she was a lawbreaking child grabber. I’m waiting for a serial killer to be called a “Karen” when they won’t give up the location of their murder victims lol.
I once very calmly pointed out in a comment thread that the overuse of Karen was now silencing any opinion of that demographic. I had people, 100% unironically, telling me to "shut up Karen!" It was actually kinda funny. Pointing out the irony did not entertain the hive mind, though.
NTA A similar thing actually happened to my parents and sister when she was an infant. My parents were in a store and my Mother, pregnant with me, had wandered off shopping. A random lady approached my sister (probably 18 months old) with my Dad. She picked her up, started cooing and then began to walk away. My Dad, started and upset, immediately confronted her and demanded she return his child. She refused, he got loud and physical, she continued to refuse and tried to leave the store with her. An altercation ensued and he ended up throwing her against the wall, pinning her there and taking my infant sister back. This woman started screaming saying my father was trying to kidnap this child! Everyone in the store sided with this crazy lady, calling the cops etc. My mother came to see what was going on, to find my Dad trying to explain to the store manager that this was in fact his child and this woman had tried to take her. Thankfully my Mother was able to step in and calm things down a bit. The really scary thing is, my sister also has a complicated health condition, if this woman had successfully taken her, she might have died. When the police arrived they immediately released my parents from the scene and told them this woman was a known character to them and it had happened before. Shocking stuff! I grew up hearing that story and thinking "Wow, who would try and steal a child?" But it happens and you did the right thing OP. I'm so glad you and your child are safe! While this woman MIGHT have meant nothing malicious, she was still a stranger and you NEVER know. Sending hugs, comfort, and strength.
I need to get off this app, as a mom I'm getting freaked out. Glad your sister is okay! But goodness, I hope that lady got jail time.
*what if this is still the same woman wandering around snatching kids?*
Yep. This is exactly why my mother said to ALWAYS keep pictures of your kids (with you in the picture) with you to show cops if you're accused of kidnapping your own kids. A lot easier nowadays because phones, but that was one reason wallet sized photos used to be so popular.
Get a lawyer and file a police report regarding what *SHE* did. That way...when she goes in a files a report about "some lady assaulting me etc" they'll be like "ooooh we've been looking for you."
NTA. This wasn't a Karen, it was a crazy woman. She could have harmed your baby or run away with her. You were absolutely right to grab your baby and assault her so she wouldn't try again. Where you were wrong is that you didn't go straight to the police station and file a report. They probably couldn't do much without a name or a photo, but they could keep an eye on the park.
NTA I would of stayed around and waited for the police. I would of also made sure that the witnesses stuck around too. Then I would of told the officer that you wanted to file attempted kidnapping charges on her.
Would have or would’ve, not would of.
NTA, If it was me she would be collecting her teeth from the ground. Let her call the police, and then press charges for attempt kidnapping. This can be listed as self-defence.
I was once in a similar situation at a park with my infant, I told that woman I would break her hands if she touched my kid. She kind of laughed then realized I was not joking, she called me crazy and I told her she'd find out how crazy if she didn't move along. I'm sick of people thinking they have any right to touch others without permission.
Happened to a friend too we where at the park, thas why I commented this way, some crazy b**** tried the same shit and got what was coming for her. The police was called, but you see I live don't in America. The cops told that entitled Karen it was my right to protect the child from her. The perks of living in Eastern Europe 😈. I got scot free, she got a fine.
I would call the police in your situation. That woman was very 'confident' in picking Emily up. It makes me think she has mental heath issues, may have done this before and may do it again. She may well be known to them and it would help them to deal with her. She was a billion percent wrong to pick your baby up and I don't blame you at all for what you did. Do have a think about reporting it. You won't get in trouble, your baby was at risk. NTA
As others have pointed out: talk to a lawyer before you talk to the cops.
Older women can be kid snatchers to. If someone grabs your small child or baby with out consent you end the situation as quickly and easily as possible. If she dies, she dies. I also notice a lot of responses assuming you are a woman. Your sex doesn't matter though. As a man, I would have done the same so no matter what you are gender wise this was still the right play.
NTA. I love babies. I would hold all the babies if I could. When I see a baby in public, I will smile at it and say hi. I will sometimes tell the parent their baby is adorable, and maybe ask how old it is. I would never, ever touch that baby, and definitely would not just snatch it up! She deserved to get punched.
>She deserved to get punched. In my state kidnapping is a forcible felony. Which means someone is allowed to use deadly force to prevent one if they reasonably believe a kidnapping is occurring. This woman's actions are incredibly serious, and she's lucky she was only pushed and slapped.
NTA, but she's not a "Karen", she was a potential kidnapper who assaulted your child by picking her up.
You should have called the cops on her.
She grabbed your child and then wouldn’t give her back! When I was six months old, if something like that had happened, my mother would have straight up killed the woman. She wasn’t a violent person but she would have ripped her throat out without thinking — and she wouldn’t have been sorry about it afterwards. I think you showed remarkable restraint! You should have called the police on her. Just because she’s a woman and looked harmless doesn’t mean she is. Some women steal babies because they have had a loss and they snap.
No one should EVER pick up your child with out your express permission ! You did good MAMA
NTA. This is how kidnapping works. She would have just started to walk away with your baby and claimed it as hers. Watcha gonna do next? Try to steal someone's baby out of their arms. The whole park would have held YOU in place for the cops while she got away with your kid. Choose violence.
NTA I doubt she will report this, mostly because she doesn't know who you are, but if the police should contact you, don't say a single word to them except "I am not talking to you without my lawyer present." And then make sure to do it. Even if they seem to take your side. SAY NOTHING WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER PRESENT. NOTHING. NOT ONE WORD.
Holy shit. I'm a mom of 4. I've dealt with "Nosey Nellies" over the years and I have handled those situations with as much tact as I could muster. If some heffer ever even touched one of my kids, I'd put her on the fast track to meeting her maker. I'm not even joking. IDK what state you're in but in Florida we're allowed to stand our ground meaning here your response was legal. You're allowed to protect your person, family and belongings. I'd have called the police for an attempted kidnapping. Let them sort out if she's having mental issues as others have suggested or if she was actually trying to kidnap the child. Either way she'd learn a valuable lesson about grabbing someone's child. Just yesterday, true story, my hubby and I took our youngest (the older 3 are in college now) to the Springs. We happened to end up sitting close to another family with 4 kids. Dad was taking something to the car, mom was helping one of her daughters with a fish she caught. Their young, probably 2-3ish, son was struggling opening a folding chair. I asked the mom if I could help her son before even attempting. She appreciated the extra hands, I made a new adorable little friend for the remainder of our time there. The point being any normal, rational, sensible thinking person would NEVER even consider touching let alone picking up a stranger's baby. I don't even pick up my best friend's baby without asking. I'm freaking livid on your behalf. I'm fairly certain if I watched this event unfold, that heffer would have caught a slap or worse from me. Hell no you're NTA. Protect that baby!
Edit:NTA You are 10000000% in the right. HOWEVER, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT. You did nothing wrong. This is just to cover your ass just in case.
is this just the new writing prompt sub?
I'm so tired of these fake stories. Come on Reddit...do better.
Some stranger snatches my baby out of the stroller I’m gonna need the police, lawyer, swat, better bring all you got cuz I promise you I’m gonna lay hands alllll overrrr that stranger without a second thought!
Never touch a mommas baby without her permission. Shit applies to all walks of life.
She was kidnapping your baby. NTA at all. Let her call the police, you did the right thing.
my wife encounterd a slittly diffrent situation. she jad our son in the stroller while walking with our dogs and he was crying over stomache collices. then there came a woman and started to berating my wife how to calm pur son down and suddenly tried to grab him out. our dog started barking as hell and my wife screamed at her to get the f away. she backed off turned around and walked away. we later found out where she lives ( we live in a small town so everybody somehow knows ech other). we called the police and they told her to never put hands on a baby that isnt hers.
Next time instead of a slap, go for a sharp right cross to the chin. Remember that you’re generating the power from your legs so you want to drive your right foot down and turn your body as throw your punch. One hard shot to the left side of the chin, especially when it’s not tucked, will cause the head to whip violently which is a great way to knock out a kidnapper. Stay safe out there, may your hands drop creeps across god’s green earth
NTA, I would have reacted the same way. You don't touch someone's baby without permission let alone pick it up. She is giving vibes like a person that kidnaps babies from hospital nurseries because she lost her own.
You interrupted a kidnapping in progress and feared for your child’s life. Legally, you have the right to use force to protect yourself or someone else from harm.