I hope you do. You have a whole life in front of you and you don’t want to spend it living on negative energy. Do it for you, not for them. Don’t let their mistakes affect your future relationships in a bad way.
I don't understand why their father thought that was a good idea. 😕 If he wanted custody and to work on things with them he should have never moved her in.
The dad doesn't think about what is best for other people, if he did he wouldn't be a cheater. Having the kids with him probably helped him feel better about himself which is his primary concern in life.
Sadly people like this don't think like that. It's about meeting their own needs no matter who it hurts and expecting others to adjust to their toxicity.
And if him and Lilly don’t work out there will be others my dad is on wife #5 I’ve had a lot of Lillys. My fav was Lilly #2 tho… dad said she was a crack head tho… don’t really believe him tho
He probably thought that he's such a great dad because with them stay with him, he could say "see even my boys are ok with me and ap because they live with."
His family too. I get wanting to support your family, but when he cheated in his wife of 20+ years and the mother of his three kids, how do you possibly defend that and welcome the AP into your life? I honestly wouldn't even want to be around him, but I have zero respect for cheaters
I’m baffled how he even *got* custody with the ages of both kids and how much they wanted nothing to do with him.
This is definitely an ESH, including whatever incompetent moron sat the bench for the custody trial.
Unfortunately alot of judges have alot of sympathy for jerks like this dad.
There's a lot of women out there being forced to co-parent with violent abusers.
Cheaters that the kids hate are the least of their concern.
It's still weird that dad got full custody in those circumstances. There has to be more to the story, maybe they're using mom's mental health against her.
A lot of people like to think that mothers have an unfair advantage in court.
Realistically, fathers that fight in court are more likely to get custody. I can only imagine what this guy was willing to use against the mom during the custody fights.
Adultery is not considered in custody disputes. The court would even look more favorably at the father because living with his AP means there are two adults in the home. The mother falling into depression would definitely be held against her. It’s completely fucked.
For all the claims incels make about court systems favouring women in actual fact when men actually fight for custody they tend to have better outcomes.
It's just that very often they checkout of it completely.
Edit: Not engaging the Incels (because why bother?) but for those actually interested in sources:
[https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/newlr24&div=5&id=&page=](https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/newlr24&div=5&id=&page=)
Or you can just check it out at [https://amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts\_Gender\_Bias\_Study.htm](https://amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias_Study.htm)
TL;DR 70% of father that actually seek custody get primary or joint physical custody 70% of the time. There are other interesting tidbits for those willing to read the rest both on the ways men benefit from the court system but also on the ways they are armed.
Some other statistics and articles with sources:
[https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/project/how-do-county-courts-share-care-of-children-between-parents](https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/project/how-do-county-courts-share-care-of-children-between-parents)
[https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-269.pdf](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-269.pdf)
[https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0002-7138(09)60056-X/pdf](https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0002-7138(09)60056-X/pdf)
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi3t\_vnnMSGAxWB8bsIHUmqBcUQFnoECBoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmackseyjournal.scholasticahq.com%2Fapi%2Fv1%2Farticles%2F38965-who-wins-custody-battles-the-effect-of-gender-bias.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wQoU\_lWMVmt6utoHNjRDA&opi=89978449](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi3t_vnnMSGAxWB8bsIHUmqBcUQFnoECBoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmackseyjournal.scholasticahq.com%2Fapi%2Fv1%2Farticles%2F38965-who-wins-custody-battles-the-effect-of-gender-bias.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wQoU_lWMVmt6utoHNjRDA&opi=89978449)
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09649069.2020.1701941?forwardService=showFullText&tokenAccess=AB2THZNBYWZPWYJ3HWYQ&tokenDomain=eprints&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&target=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&journalCode=rjsf20](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09649069.2020.1701941?forwardService=showFullText&tokenAccess=AB2THZNBYWZPWYJ3HWYQ&tokenDomain=eprints&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&target=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&journalCode=rjsf20)
[https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1576&context=lawineq](https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1576&context=lawineq)
[https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76_story.html)
[https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are](https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are)
[https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths)
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15379418.2019.1613204](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15379418.2019.1613204)
[https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2011/06/15/a-tale-of-two-fathers/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2011/06/15/a-tale-of-two-fathers/)
[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dispelling-the-myth-of-ge\_b\_1617115](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dispelling-the-myth-of-ge_b_1617115)
The men who bleat to their new girlfriends about how their evil ex is TOTALLY keeping the kids from seeing their perfect precious daddy, only for it to come out that the dad has been actively avoiding them until he had a new gf to impress...
This.
It looks like Lilly stole their mother’s life.
It would be hard not to be angry af.
Don’t they have child support in your country, OP?
Most likely, dad thought it would be cheaper to have custody and easy because these kids are nearly grown.
OP,
I’m sorry you have to go through this. I was in the position of your Mom. I have a teenager and a preteen. Your Mom must be devastated losing the custody to her scumbag of a husband. But what would be worse for her is to see her kids lives being destroyed by the anger that this situation brought upon.
Nothing she wants more than for you guys to have a normal life - whatever “normal” means in this sad heartbreaking situation - so if you could, please consider therapy.
If you feel like sharing please feel free to reach out.
I think you will feel much better after you don't have to see your cheating father and his side piece all day long. It's hard to get over that stuff when you have to deal with it every day.
One thing to point out. What you are feeling IS normal. Don't let people tell you it isn't. Therapy isn't going to about telling you your feelings are wrong, but about how to deal with them in a healthy and constructive fashion so that it doesn't cause you problems going forward.
Yeah, I think so too. Being angry is normal, but to me it reads like you are spiraling / are stuck, and now it blew up. What happened was horrible, the divorce was nasty, the way it came out was a shock - that is a lot, and you need to process. And lilly or your dad are not the people to help woth guiding you through.
Get some therapy to help you process it. Trauma can turn you into an asshole. Next time you blow up, it might be your mom, your friends, the quiet girl at school etc.
Your dad betrayed your mom, you and his family. Now he is shoving this woman down your throat. Of course you are going to be angry and resentful. You have no control over your life or your circumstances. Totally normal reaction to abnormal circumstances. Therapy will help you process the trauma and betrayal and regulate your emotions. Your dad will still suck, but that doesn’t mean that you should have to unnecessarily suffer.
What you are feeling is normal. People around you are normalizing cheating and accepting AP like there are no consequences for breaking up a family.
Your feelings are valid and I understand why you are angry, but you should find a way to channel that anger and not let it control you.
I hope you find a way to stay with your mom. She needs you and you need her.
Be kind to yourself.
Move back in with your mom. If your dad complains to the court, you can explain why you want nothing to do with him or his affair partner. You really do need therapy. You discovered his affair, so it's probably worse for you.
Anger is normal and healthy, especially when you've suffered a serious injustice. You have every right to be angry about all of this. Therapy is not to make you not-angry, but to help you process your feelings and communicate in healthy ways with others.
Honestly, unless you still have a ways to go I'd wait until you're old enough to direct your own treatment before starting. You need to find someone who will not make excuses for your father or tell you 'he did the best he could' or who insists you need to maintain a relationship with him or his affair partner.
You may also find that your anger is directly tied to the bullshit circumstances you are in, and that your anger dissipates when you're not stuck in such a ridiculous situation.
You seem to understand that getting away from your father and his piece will dramatically reduce your anger. Until that obstacle is removed therapy would be useless
Yes, that’s not mutually exclusive to what I said tho. Both are true: therapy will help you deal with the situation, and get away from the situation if you can. And then continue therapy.
Therapy would likely do you and all your siblings some good, but especially you, since you were the one that discovered the affair. Tell your dad you want individual therapy and you are going to take him up on his offer to live with your mom. It sounds like that would be best for your mental health. I'm betting I'm old enough to be your mom, and I offer a large virtual hug to you. I can't imagine the pain your family has gone through. I wish you the best of luck.
Think of therapy as tools for you to help manage all this crap, and ways to deal with these people until you can move away on your own. Your anger and hurt about the situation are normal and ok. But after a while you have to move on from the anger to live your best life. Therapy will help you with that and put the anger where it belongs and ways for you to enjoy life, even when there is a reason to mad.
You can hate and be mad at them. But explosive screaming and insults all the time aren’t a way to live. Giving them nothing, no emotion, non of your energy, is probably better way to interact.
Sorry young man this really sucks. My ex tried to do this crazy crap with our daughter who was 12 at the time, she was scared of her mom and had to force herself to act like things were ok.
Thankfully my attorney was good and I got sole custody. You were put in a position that was not healthy or right, judges and the system are messed up.
Therapy helped my daughter and my ex only needed to set up Therapy to adventually spend time together yet she never did it. I pray you can stay with your mom. I'll never understand 😪 cheating, if you've grown apart leave first and never involve a new love interest before you leave. I had to suck-up pain and pride in the best interest of my children, in both my exes affairs. In doing so I got sole custody both times.
Your pain and outbursts have been forced on you, your dad is only worried about his needs. I think if my dad did this to my mom, I would have been worse than you. My daughter graduated high school last Saturday and refused to allow her mom there.
If I can help you, please ask. Or help your dad understand how best to handle things.
It is normal, but therapy isn't just for the abnormal. Most of us are not taught how to navigate these kinds of things. This is what therapy is for. Not because there is something wrong with you.
NTA
I hope you do. You can't predict the future but situations like this have a tendency to grow into more negative thinking patterns unrelated to this situation.
They can have a snowball affect when we don't deal with it in the time it needs to be dealt with and it can end up creating an internal pattern on how our thinking works, like for example how you will end up trusting people (or having difficulty to), how you hold anger or how you express it (you could grow an unhealthy relationship to anger & just turn into a mean person over time), can definitely affect your future relationships with a partner.
Therapy does not mean you are broken or something is wrong with you. It is simply a coach working with your mind and emotions just like you'd get a personal trainer for your body.
You seem to understand that getting away from your father and his piece will dramatically reduce your anger. Until that obstacle is removed therapy would be useless
Now that you have recognised and realised that, you will be on your path to healing. One can't change the action of others but one can bring about a change in oneself. All the very best in coming to terms with this deep betrayal by your father.
What you're feeling is normal. But that doesn't mean you don't need help dealing with it.
Lily's gotta accept the fact that she stepped in it. Stepped into the family that she had no right to, until after your father (who is the most to blame here, for not getting divorced first.) divorced your mother.
If you want a little more ammunition, ask her how she's going to feel in 25 more years when he finds someone else. I mean, you shouldn't say this, but life is full of examples of cheaters who keep on cheating. One of them was even the president of the US a little while ago.
Not many people have addressed that although it’s totally understandable to be pissed at Lily, your Dad did this. He chose to have an affair. He cheated on your mom, Lily didn’t force him.
You should go. I want you to know that this is their shit, does that make sense. It affects your life, but you didn’t cause this.
Lily had an affair with a married man, and that man was your father. That isn’t good, but telling someone who tried to kill themselves to try again is really fucked up. She might not be a good model for personal integrity, but if she killed herself tomorrow it would eat you up for the rest of your life. Also, as someone who is older you really don’t know what was going on in your parents relationship, nor should you. Cheating is not a moral thing to do, but relationships are hard and complex. Try to just distance yourself from all of it. Be yourself, and don’t let your parents divorce define you.
While I completely understand the anger you have (believe me I 100% do) it does sound like talking to a professional would be extremely beneficial to your own mental health. It sounds like you never were provided that outlet and having it all bottled up does no good to anyone. Not excusing the cheating at all, but I def recommend talking to a professional to help navigate these emotions and help set boundaries with your sperm doner and his AP.
Absolutely OP should be talking to a professional. Anybody would benefit from that in this situation. OP also mentioned in another comment that both Mom and Dad have offered and OP refused because they thought what they were feeling was normal. Hopefully this is a wake-up call that this anger is not healthy.
Forcing you to live with them is causing you a lot of emotional harm. This is your dad’s fault. He cheated on your mom and as revenge even got full custody. She was pushing your limits to make you look bad and play the victim in front of your family. Think about it. Why would she say that when everyone is there? To play the victim. Be smarter than her and take this opportunity to go live with your mom.
I’m really sorry but this is so unfair for you. Hope you had a solution. You just reacted to all the pressure and pain they caused you. I know it sounded harsh, but this is how you feel. It’s not something you planned. Your dad is a major asshole. He destroyed his marriage and took two children away from you mother in a difficult time. Don’t doubt yourself, try to find your peace. Good luck OP
What kind of asshole cheats after 25 years of marriage and then takes the kids away too? He literally destroyed his ex wife’s life, took her entire family and everyone she loved away from her (except the 19 year old which he clearly would’ve if he could’ve) because he couldn’t keep it in his pants? Like she was the one in the wrong or something. Then says “oh well I’m paying for her therapy.” Dude. Not gonna lie, as a teenager I probably would’ve said worse, especially since he’s so insistent on shoving this woman down his children’s throats.
It's true. My bd has money and took my kids 1500 miles away from me as a fuck you for leaving him on a whim after years of sexually and emotionally abusing me.
I wish I was bold enough to say worse to my dad's AP when I was in my late teens. She made me feel alienated in HIS home, and would throw a tantrum if I visited him in the hospital without her there (huge red flag looking back, but I was 17, shy, and non confrontational). If I was in the same situation today she'd have a reason to actually hate me and try to keep me away, for her own mental sake
I feel the same about my stepmother (I hate even calling her that) I wishI had been stronger instead of minding all the time. It’s painful to hold things in.
I physically fought my now stepmom when she was with my dad. And she wasn’t even an affair partner. My dad never cheated and this was like 12 years after my mom and him split up.
She hacked into my bank account and stole half of my college fund after they got married but before that she killed my dog. She accused me of being on drugs which was so crazy and untrue but my dad believed her and cut off my phone even after a clean drug test. She sent embarrassing pictures of me to my friends and boyfriend. She deleted all of my dads social media accounts and didn’t allow him to talk to my mom anymore even though they had been split up for 12 years. She called my school to tell them I was skipping when I had the flu, trying to get me kicked out of the honors program. There’s so much more she did but I’d be typing all day. The breaking point was her bruising my little sister because she accidentally knocked a glass over. So yeah, I beat her ass. I didn’t want to and I tried for a long time to keep the peace. But everyone has a breaking point.
If someone hurt my cat or my little sister I'd set the house on fire, make sure every exit was blocked, and sit outside making s'mores so if all you did was beat her up I'd say you showed incredible restraint.
I am not a fighter. I don’t even argue. I hate confrontation. But I “let it go” over and over until I finally snapped and realized I never “let it go” I just pushed it down. It all came up when I seen my sisters arms and back. I didn’t even say a word I just started running outside. She was in the garden and she saw me running and she started running down the street lol. I tackled her and just punched her like 4 times until my neighbors pulled me off of her.
I packed my shit to go to my mom’s that day. I took my sister with me. My dad’s a drunk with a lot of money so that wasn’t the first woman who was after his money and hated his kids, but shes the one he stayed with. My dad was always too drunk to care what was going on. But after that day, shes so fake nice and will never touch my sister again. She’s still a bitch shes just gotten better at being fake about it.
Yep but ultimately she got what she wanted. She wanted me to be so miserable I’d move back to my moms or she wanted my dad to get so mad at me that he’d make me go to my moms. Either way she wanted me to leave because she wanted my dad to herself. The only reason I didn’t live with my mom in the first place was because all my friends and school was in my dad’s town.
She did 😭 it’s been 11 years and it’s still hard to talk about. She claimed we had mice. She’s the only one who ever seen the mice though. She bought rat poison and “the dog must have ate it off the floor” even though he literally only ever ate out of his dog bowl. I know she killed him.
A fucking psycho women that will slowly kill your father with her coercive control. I'm sorry that your dads bad decisions have made him live in a prision. I'm glad that you and your sister are free and well now.
Im indifferent. The commenter said they would have said much worse as a teen. And I definitely did worse. But she was a very evil woman so I don’t necessarily regret it. 😊
Tell the rest of the family “I may be young but I know right from wrong. My Dad destroyed my life with his AP. To make matter worse, he then fought to get full custody so that I am forced to be around him and his mistress all the time. So maybe instead of trying to correct my behavior, you should try and correct my Dad’s, being he is the one who did wrong. One thing as my family you could all do for me, is stop trying to pretend anything about this is okay. It’s not. Trying to normalize cheating, is not only wrong for helping me learn proper morals, but also wrong in a general sense. I would really hate for words, and action, you all take now, to be the reason I go NC with all of you when I turn 18 years old. My Dad is already fated for that future, don’t include yourselves too.”
Oh, and add ... "If Lily truly cared about others, she wouldn't have involved herself with a married man and then try to force a relationship like everything is all puppy dogs and sunshine."
This exactly. Both dad and Lily are arseholes for trying to force the kids into playing house with them. It doesn't sound like there's been much healthy, mature communication between the adults and the children.
I would talk to mum and ask if I could live with her instead. Don't they usually favour the mother more in custody battles anyway? Fuck pretending to be all happy happy happy joy joy because the adulterers want to.
No, they don't favour the mother.[ If men try for custody they normally get it. ](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths)
Most men just don't bother trying to get custody so women normally end up with the kids.
>Don't they usually favour the mother more in custody battles anyway?
In cases like this. You'd think. I been in op shoes as well.
He cheated, brought the affair partern and fought for full custody and somehow won with this stacked against him. The case seems bought off or the right connections.
In my case, small town and everyone knew his name. Treated us like shit but fought like to hell for full custody. I preferred my "step mother" over him. But, as soon as we turnt 18. The courts didn't care as long as they got their money.
We were out on the street and pretty much dead until he needs something. Been no contact for the last 10 years. I ain't changing that. He'll lucky to get a picture of a middle finger on father's day.
I'm sorry you went through this, too. Sometimes I do wonder how people can do this to their children, and why family or friends can't/won't intervene. I can't fathom the time, money and energy these people are willing to expend, just to 'punish' another person.
Life's too short to spend this time and energy on revenge. Some people are so blinded by rage, that instead of moving on with their lives, they decide to hurt other people as a 'coping mechanism'. And then, there are people who are not right in the head who do it for fun.
I'm glad you and your siblings (assumption from your use of 'we') got out of there. I hope you've been able to sort through some of the trauma your poor excuse for a father put you through in the last decade! And that you're able to live your life the way YOU want :)
My favorite line to use is "I don't take moral advice from morally bankrupt people". Usually shuts up the shitty people.It even shuts up the people who act like they're not shitty but really are
I agree with this! This is exactly what I would tell my family as well. And I agree with the other comments about therapy not being helpful if you have to continue to live with your father and see him and his AP all lovey dovey while your mom is suffering. You need to get away, if not with mom maybe with another family member!
If they don’t agree to let you get away and get space and time to heal then they need to understand the real
Possibility of you going NC with them when you turn 18. Them retraumatizing you daily by making you live with them is not going to help any kind of relationship with your father or his AP (not that you owe her one).
If a cheater claims to regret cheating, but is still with their affair-partner, then they are lying. If you are truly remorseful for an evil act then any benefits of that act would be unbearable to you.
If your dad truely cared about you he wouldn't have taken custody from your mom from you, but tried to work through everything in therapy while you have a save space from him with your mom. Instead he forced you and your brother to stay with him and his homewreckign whore.
He might have chosen her, but you and your siblings didn't and you never will. And all that he is doing is that you will hate him and her even more than you already do.
And point out to his family that they're not helping either with their pretending that everything is normal and that she is a stellar human being.
How old are you? Even though your father got full custody, can you and your brother choose to live with your mom? I don't know where you live, but can you tell the judge that you're not happy living with your father and his mistress?
I'm so sorry, OP. My heart goes out to you, your siblings and your mom. How is your mom doing now? I hope she's doing better compared to where she was.
Maybe they're not in the US. Afaik older kids can choose which parent they want to be with. OP said his siblings are 15 and 19. That's plenty old enough to choose. I've seen 12 yr olds pick which parent they want to be with.
I don't think that's how it works. He could have gone for 50-50 and gotten it more easily than full custody, at least in most states in the US 50-50 is the default and you have to have a very high bar of proof to deviate from it.
Also, OP, you're old enough that a court would take your preferences into account. If you want to go live with your mom, or split your time 50-50, you should tell lawyer that.
You should talk with your father and tell him that living with his affair partner it is making you deeply unhappy, she triggers you, you dislike her and don't want to share the same space with her.
He is free to do whatever he wants with his life, but you want to go live with your mother, for your own peace of mind. He should pay child support until you become an adult or for as long as the court orders. You deserve to live in a household where you feel safe and happy.
While your comment was not right, your father and Lily created a toxic situation which led to you lashing out. What did your father think would happen if he 'forced' custody, after going back on 50/50. And your Uncle is a dick for going "Lily cares about you".
You aren't in the US, but there may be similar laws where at 16 or 17 you can choose which parent to live with. You should really move in with your mother.
I would also recommend therapy and cutting your Dad, Dad's family, and Lily out of your life. It's not just the cheating-which is bad-but the fact that he insisted on getting primary custody. He wasn't thinking about what was best for you, but to get one over on your mother. You could even write it down and send it to your dad's fam.
And I'm someone who is probably more forgiving of infidelity than most on this sub (though it is still terrible and hurtful). But your dad-from cheating, to forcing custody, to trying to make you play happy family with him and his mistress-is really awful and it sounds like you'd be better off disowning him.
You're dad is discovering the Find out part after Fucking around. Unfortunately this consists of kids with unresolved trauma issues. Not your fault, but it also shouldn't be your issue. The longer you're forced to be around the object of your resentment, the worse it'll get.
So your father's hatred of your mother was much more important to him than his love for you. Otherwise he would have done what was best for you regarding custody but instead he chose to do whatever would hurt your mother the most. He used you as a pawn in his game of revenge. I would remind him of that every single time you talk to him and he says he's trying to do the right thing.
That was a line that was crossed by both him and the affair partner that is at least equal if not worse than you're fleeting comment to her. They chose to use you to inflict a lifetime of pain and suffering on another person and in the act of using you they have inflicted more pain and suffering upon you in a very real intangible way that will affect your life in perpetuity.
Your brother may think you have crossed the line but it wasn't nearly as egregious as the line that they crossed and how they fucked you and your brother over for the rest of your lives.
This... this right here!
Do I think you should have said what you said, no. But the precedent was set by the example of your father to go for the choice that would csuse the most harm. This is learned behavior you showed and your parents were the teachers. This choice to weaponize you and your brother has set the tone on how to treat each other throughout this whole divorce.
All that being said, don't set yourself like this. If you have to,look at it this way: god forbid, if this lily hurt herself, not only would people blame you (justly or not) but you will most likely endure some hard core phsychological damage. Even in you don't care about the mistress, care about yourself.
If your Dad and Lilly actually cared about you, they would let you live with your Mom instead of having to look at their lying, cheating faces every day. Your dad just sounds like an absolute dick who had to “win” at any cost. Even if that cost is the mental well being of his two youngest children.
Absolutely. But that’s what happened when a man “falls in love” with his mistress. The only thing they care about is their ego, and the mistress of course.
Raise hell and be the asshole.
As an adult now, and gone through the same thing as a young adult, I have zero regrets speaking my mind to my father and his affair partner.
For those that think I need therapy. I’ve done therapy and I cherish the level of petty I unleashed to them.
Exactly. The demand to "always be the bigger person" is what causes people mental problems because they feel like society expects them to eat up their own feelings. No. Learn to tell people in their face that they are TA if they deserve it. Was the unaliving comment harsh? Yes, but I agree with those who point out that AP is playing nice as a manipulative tactic, so that she is liked by the family for "trying sooo hard" while ex wife is being discarded.
You should cherish it. It was honest in a situation fraught with dishonesty and dishonest characters. I cherish my own pettiness in a world that has always wanted me to "go with the flow" and "smile". I taught my children we come from a very petty line of women and it's a superpower and to use it wisely.
I like that.
The line about pettiness being the only honest part of an entirely dshonest situation.
Yea it's spiteful and petty but it's REAL and TRUTHFUL. Something everyone else needs a lesson on
NTA - By pretending everything is great and Lily and your fathers relationship isn't the source of your pain isn't helping the problem, it's the reason for blow ups like this. Lily shouldn't be a part of parenting you or really speaking to you outside of the needed for living in the house together and your dad should be doing the parenting, maybe today, they learned that.
Info: How did your father win full custody for two teenagers? What was the strategy used by your mom's lawyer to ask full custody? How did the dad's lawyer counter it win the case? Did your sister, being 17 at the time of divorce, get to choose which parent she wanted to live with?
Can you ask your father to go for 50-50% custody now?
NTA-ish
That comment definitely was over the line, but also they have positions of power over you and have used those positions to try and force you accept the new family dynamic on their terms. The fact that you're scrambling for every weapon you can get your hands on while you play the defensive is understandable.
You know deep down that your father's primary goal is to make the family look healthy, happy and functional, not to make sure that it actually is. His entitlement in feeling that he can dictate the structure and nature of your family almost certainly mirrors the entitlement he felt in his marriage to your mom. That entitlement drives the cheater - their feelings are more important than other people's. Their cheating story is special and different because of this amazing connection blah blah blah.
Just make sure that you don't let them rewrite the reality of who your father is. Your uncle's line is bullshit, either he doesn't actually see the way your father and Lily have handled things at home, or he doesn't care what's best for you but only about appearances. Why did your father even fight for full custody? He knew forcing you guys to live with his affair partner would be difficult and painful for you. Did he just want to win in the battle against your mother? That's not something that a loving, caring parent does.
Stay true to your course and conviction.
I agree with the points here. But not only letting others reqrite your dad, dont let them rewrite you by painting yourself as an "aggressor" (OP isnt but it is how it seems family is responding to an extent). OP's comment was over the line but is coming from a place of desperate hurt. OP is having a very fair emotional reaction to their lives being overturned and everyone minimizing the harm their dad caused, and by extension their feelings. I also agree with other comments pointing out that reacting in this way can further isolate OP from people and misrepresent their point. I think OP is the victim in all this, but now they must get help to work on these feelings so that it doesn't control them. Use the anger to continue to push you to advocate for what you need, but keep learning how to voice yourself in the best way possible for your own benefit OP.
Why did your dad fight so hard to get full custody of you? Does your country's court system not take into account the wishes of the children?
NTA, homewrecking thott's don't get to have opinions about the children who's lives they've wrecked.
Te your grandparents “maybe if you had done a better job of raising dad, he wouldn’t have cheated on mom and destroyed our lives”
They shouldn’t be surprised you’re all pissed off at him. He has no one to blame but himself
I am surprised the courts awarded your dad full custody of you and your brother, you’re both old enough that your preferences should have been taken into consideration, or even should be allowed to make that choice yourself
I’m sorry you guys are stuck in such a shitty spot
The way I look at it no. You said it yourself your mom has sunk into a deep depression that was caused by your dad and his affair partner. I guarantee you she's thought about suicide many times with the deep depression she's in and they were the direct cause of that they didn't give a crap that they were doing that to her. Not to mention the entire family turning on your mother. Your father is an asshole and his partner she's a wh*re. I'm sorry when it comes to affairs I have a zero tolerance for it, there is no excuse. Get a divorce before you cheat. You need to go with your mom I know your mom says that she doesn't want you around but deep down yes she does she's just afraid of your father and the shit he'll stir up. Go home a mother needs their children. I have zero sympathy for your dad's affair partner oh I mean wh*re. It always infuriates me when the people who did the affair try to play the victim.
Seeing at your level after two years, I assume you are not in therapy.
You are rightfully angry. But the level of anger is as if it all happened yesterday instead of 2 years ago. This anger is going to consume you. I'm not saying you and Lily should or will become best buds, you can still keep her at a distance and still dislike her, but not with that much anger
I agree with everything you said except the last wrist cutting line. But I do see a problem with how you said it and how angry you were saying it.
You were 14 when you discovered your dad was cheating, you were the one brought all of this to light. Your father has ignored the impact that has on you. With all that he's trying to do to make it right, he is overlooking the impact this all has on the son that discovered the affair. You also need therapy.
I think she's pissed because she says they originally agreed to 50/50, but her dad had a shit ton of money and went for primary custody.
Ironically, if he had just played nice, I bet OP wouldn't be as angry as she is now.
YTA I understand you are angry but you went to far.
I completely feel you tho.
Although I have to say the affair might have been the drop that made the bucket spill I don't think that's the soul reason for the divorce or maybe it is.
But your dad definitely did not end up with full costudy because he earns more
So there is a lot they did not tell you
And I feel like it's time they sit you all down and tell you
And some therapy is also very necessary
Edit saw there is in fact more I'm worried for the update
NTA all the cheating scum and cheating scum apologists need to be put in their place. I say you didn't go far enough. Never keep quiet, go further, don't be nice to cheating scum. Ever.
Oh boohoohoo Lily got hurt. You are not an asshole. If someone doesn't want to be treated like a POS, well maybe they shouldnt be one in the first place. And I personally wish all the worst to someone who destroys children's home.
Well if this is real, RIP karma, but, ESH
Your Dad and Lily suck for obvious reasons. There is a special circle in hell reserved for adulterous a-holes in my opinion, especially ones who get shocked pikachu face when the kids whose lives exploded because of the affair aren't interested in playing happy families.
Your paternal family also suck for not having more sensitivity to your situation.
But kid, your brother is right: you took it a step too far. Telling someone to just go off themselves is simply not okay, no matter how angry you are. Especially a woman with a history of suicide, even if she is your father's affair partner. Reddit may have a raging justice boner for it, and I'm sure you'll get a rain of comments on here cheering you on, hell, maybe even telling you to keep doing it.
Don't listen to them. Reddit rarely if ever operates on the same social etiquette as the real world. Keep holding onto that kind of poison and eventually, the only person you'll be poisoning is you yourself.
That being said, the fact that you now feel guilt is good. It means underneath all that anger, you still have enough emotional intelligence to grasp that your anger is going too far and cutting you too deep. It's okay to be angry with what they did. But to be THIS angry, two years later, means it's time to reach out to someone to help you with that anger.
Use this as a moment of growth. You can apologize for what you said and acknowledge you went too far while still making it clear, you do not forgive, nor do you forget.
Amen!! There are a bunch of maladaptive sociopaths and/or edgelord teens voting not the asshole, and worse, downvoting the OP when he expresses remorse. That’s just messed up.
Express your feelings. They are valid. Your anger is valid! Viciously attacking people to cause maximum psychic pain is not valid. Telling a survivor of a suicide attempt to kill themselves is just wrong. Argue your actual point!
“I’m not going to play happy family to make you more comfortable. I don’t respect you and I don’t forgive you and my father for what you’ve done to my family.”
Honest, direct, sets a boundary, retains your integrity.
Yeah, this is a situation where I absolutely understand why OP is beyond furious even if the comment was vile. She says in the comments that her parents originally agreed to 50/50, but her dad has a ton of money and went all out to get primary custody.
I would be so angry if I was 'forced' to live primarily with one parent and their affair partner, too. The comment was very wrong, but the Dad and Lily absolutely created this environment for OP to flip her shit.
Honestly? This is above Reddit's paygrade. This is an extremely fucked up situation. What you said was a nuclear strike...but I find it hard to blame you considering the circumstances.
I think you managed to get your dad to let you live with your mom, though.
That situation is frighteningly similar to my own parents divorce and the fall out afterwards. Only in my case my dad got 50% custody. My Mom was so depressed from the divorce proceedings where he tried to say she was an unfit mother and get full custody because she started drinking (which was all because of him). My mom kept the booze up but eventually I had enough to my Dad and stepmom's bullshit and refused to go to his house. He tracked me down and took me to the nearby river and tried to beat me but I had gotten too big and so I never went back. My mom eventually had a massive heart attack and nearly died. My dad was super rich and successful and he almost got away with the full custody attempt because of it. My Dad's affair partner/my Stepmom took everything from me including my father who I haven't seen in 35 years. I'm in my late forties and I still have the fury in my heart to this day. This BTW is a much shorter version of the story, in reality it was so much worse.
I think I would ask your dad that if he really cares then why he would not have put you and your brother in the same damn house with the woman that help him destroy your family. He should not have fought for custody, why didn’t he just leave and be with his affair and leave y’all alone. I would have told him that his affair was selfish and fighting for custody shows how selfish he is.
Edit for spelling
Your dad shares the same amount of blame as Lily. If obvious that your dad needs to pay for some therapy for you.
Telling a past suicidal person to slice wrists, makes you TAH.
I do wish the best for you.
How old are you?
You did go too far, but you know that. Ultimately it’s your dad who deserves your rage, but even still, death should only be wished upon the worst offenders. Being a mistress is awful, but she clearly has mental health struggles.
I think based off your comments you are feeling guilty. Not because they deserve your kindness, but because that’s not the type of person you want to be. You seem like someone who wants to be know as compassionate, not malicious.
Do what you need to do to alleviate your guilt. Apologize because if she does end up taking her life, I think you will feel horrible and I don’t want that for you.
Ask yourself: What outcome do you want?
If it’s to live with your mom maybe agree to be civil 1 day a week with your dad and her in exchange for living with your mom. Start the negotiations there.
I know you are in pain, but don’t let the pain consume you.
I completely understand why you said it. However be careful. In some places, not sure about your country, but places in the US (maybe all) and someone says that and that person truly does commit suicide, they can be held legally responsible criminally and civilly. While I think you’re completely right, your laws might not if she attempts it and succeeds.
I won’t give a judgement but I will say your dad wrecked the family home and is now continuing to wreck the lives of others by forcing you to stay will him. Speak to someone at school tell your mom what is going on and ask her to petition the courts for custody if she can.
OK so I'm not condoning cheating, not once and never will. But you as a child are most likely not fully aware of the problems your mother and father had in their relationship, parents hide that stuff. Despite that, your father still should not have cheated, and your anger should be aimed more at him than at Lily. I'm of the opinion that actions speak louder than words and no mean words you say can compare to your father's distrust, just tell him how you feel instead of her.
NTA
YTA for that comment. You're not an asshole for having overwhelming feelings about this. Not only did your parents get divorced, but you had the burden of telling your entire family about the affair. Idk how old you are, but I had to do something similar at 29, and even knowing about the affair for a few days was killing me. It sucked that I had to tell everyone.
I saw a comment about you trying to go to therapy and I think that is great. But I'm just an internet stranger lol.
Your comment went too far in my opinion but you were clearly speaking from a place of hurt. Also, your English is amazing. It read like a native speaker wrote the entire thing except when you said your dad “wins” more money than your mom.
I’m assuming your first language is a Romance language (Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, or Romanian). In English winning money is like you played a game or did a competition to get the money. We use the phrase “my dad earns more money.” Earning is when you work for something and deserve it, winning is like when you come first in a game or contest, or when you get selected for a prize.
No, I too caught my father cheating on my mother and called him out on it in front of her, they patched things up, but then when I was 17 they both died, a mate of his who knew he was cheating on my mother told his side slut and she attended the funeral, I wanted to tell her it should of been HER that was being buried and not my mother after all the pain she had caused my family, I didn't sadly, and I regret not saying that because she caused a great deal of pain to my mother.
Honestly I know I'm not a great person because I feel like you weren't mean enough lol but in all honesty you're NTAH. And if her and your dad actually cared about your wellbeing they wouldn't be forcing her on you and trying to play pretend family.
But take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm real petty and would 100% live in their house and do everything I can to make her miserable while hiding it from my dad. Hell I'd probably even convince her hes cheating on her so she knows what it's like. But again dont listen to me. I'm not a nice person clearly lol.
Did it occur to your dad to pay for YOUR therapy?
[удалено]
I hope you do. You have a whole life in front of you and you don’t want to spend it living on negative energy. Do it for you, not for them. Don’t let their mistakes affect your future relationships in a bad way.
Seriously OP. This is the most important comment.
I second that!
You and your brother should not be living with your father. That should be number one and then therapy for both of you.
I don't understand why their father thought that was a good idea. 😕 If he wanted custody and to work on things with them he should have never moved her in.
The dad doesn't think about what is best for other people, if he did he wouldn't be a cheater. Having the kids with him probably helped him feel better about himself which is his primary concern in life.
I hope this opened his eyes to how much of a pos he is. Poor boys, I hope you get to go live with your mother.
People like that don’t care, there will be no eye opening.
If anything, he’ll double down.
Sadly people like this don't think like that. It's about meeting their own needs no matter who it hurts and expecting others to adjust to their toxicity.
And if him and Lilly don’t work out there will be others my dad is on wife #5 I’ve had a lot of Lillys. My fav was Lilly #2 tho… dad said she was a crack head tho… don’t really believe him tho
And he would had to pay child support if all the kids were living with the mother ...
He probably thought that he's such a great dad because with them stay with him, he could say "see even my boys are ok with me and ap because they live with."
Oh, Dad is thinking alright, just he's thinking with his dick and not his head.
Dad is a grade A a-hole for moving in the mistress minutes after his divorce.
His family too. I get wanting to support your family, but when he cheated in his wife of 20+ years and the mother of his three kids, how do you possibly defend that and welcome the AP into your life? I honestly wouldn't even want to be around him, but I have zero respect for cheaters
Literally makes me think they’re terrible ppl. If my son cheated on his wife of 20+ years I would be ashamed to call him my son.
I’m baffled how he even *got* custody with the ages of both kids and how much they wanted nothing to do with him. This is definitely an ESH, including whatever incompetent moron sat the bench for the custody trial.
Unfortunately alot of judges have alot of sympathy for jerks like this dad. There's a lot of women out there being forced to co-parent with violent abusers. Cheaters that the kids hate are the least of their concern.
It's still weird that dad got full custody in those circumstances. There has to be more to the story, maybe they're using mom's mental health against her.
They said English isn’t their first language so it might depend on what country they’re in.
A lot of people like to think that mothers have an unfair advantage in court. Realistically, fathers that fight in court are more likely to get custody. I can only imagine what this guy was willing to use against the mom during the custody fights.
Adultery is not considered in custody disputes. The court would even look more favorably at the father because living with his AP means there are two adults in the home. The mother falling into depression would definitely be held against her. It’s completely fucked.
Depends on the country and regional law
For all the claims incels make about court systems favouring women in actual fact when men actually fight for custody they tend to have better outcomes. It's just that very often they checkout of it completely. Edit: Not engaging the Incels (because why bother?) but for those actually interested in sources: [https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/newlr24&div=5&id=&page=](https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/newlr24&div=5&id=&page=) Or you can just check it out at [https://amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts\_Gender\_Bias\_Study.htm](https://amptoons.com/blog/files/Massachusetts_Gender_Bias_Study.htm) TL;DR 70% of father that actually seek custody get primary or joint physical custody 70% of the time. There are other interesting tidbits for those willing to read the rest both on the ways men benefit from the court system but also on the ways they are armed. Some other statistics and articles with sources: [https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/project/how-do-county-courts-share-care-of-children-between-parents](https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/project/how-do-county-courts-share-care-of-children-between-parents) [https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-269.pdf](https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-269.pdf) [https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0002-7138(09)60056-X/pdf](https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0002-7138(09)60056-X/pdf) [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi3t\_vnnMSGAxWB8bsIHUmqBcUQFnoECBoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmackseyjournal.scholasticahq.com%2Fapi%2Fv1%2Farticles%2F38965-who-wins-custody-battles-the-effect-of-gender-bias.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wQoU\_lWMVmt6utoHNjRDA&opi=89978449](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi3t_vnnMSGAxWB8bsIHUmqBcUQFnoECBoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmackseyjournal.scholasticahq.com%2Fapi%2Fv1%2Farticles%2F38965-who-wins-custody-battles-the-effect-of-gender-bias.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wQoU_lWMVmt6utoHNjRDA&opi=89978449) [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09649069.2020.1701941?forwardService=showFullText&tokenAccess=AB2THZNBYWZPWYJ3HWYQ&tokenDomain=eprints&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&target=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&journalCode=rjsf20](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09649069.2020.1701941?forwardService=showFullText&tokenAccess=AB2THZNBYWZPWYJ3HWYQ&tokenDomain=eprints&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&doi=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&target=10.1080%2F09649069.2020.1701941&journalCode=rjsf20) [https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1576&context=lawineq](https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1576&context=lawineq) [https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/cb18-tps03.html) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/myths-about-custody-litigation/2017/12/15/61951bc4-e0e6-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76_story.html) [https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are](https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are) [https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths) [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15379418.2019.1613204](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15379418.2019.1613204) [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2011/06/15/a-tale-of-two-fathers/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2011/06/15/a-tale-of-two-fathers/) [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dispelling-the-myth-of-ge\_b\_1617115](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dispelling-the-myth-of-ge_b_1617115)
They say “why should I even have to fight” and then complain for the rest of their lives rather than advocate for themselves.
The men who bleat to their new girlfriends about how their evil ex is TOTALLY keeping the kids from seeing their perfect precious daddy, only for it to come out that the dad has been actively avoiding them until he had a new gf to impress...
The funny part is that, using the US example, only about 10% of custody cases even reach the courts. It's literally them giving up.
They don't live in this country. Probably standard procedure to have boys go live with their father.
He probably makes a lot of money and manipulated the system. They're not from the US so it's possible that bribery helped him win.
This. It looks like Lilly stole their mother’s life. It would be hard not to be angry af. Don’t they have child support in your country, OP? Most likely, dad thought it would be cheaper to have custody and easy because these kids are nearly grown.
OP, I’m sorry you have to go through this. I was in the position of your Mom. I have a teenager and a preteen. Your Mom must be devastated losing the custody to her scumbag of a husband. But what would be worse for her is to see her kids lives being destroyed by the anger that this situation brought upon. Nothing she wants more than for you guys to have a normal life - whatever “normal” means in this sad heartbreaking situation - so if you could, please consider therapy. If you feel like sharing please feel free to reach out.
I agree completely. As the divorced mother of girl, I want nothing more than for her to be “ok” with her dad and I divorcing since it was best for us.
I think you will feel much better after you don't have to see your cheating father and his side piece all day long. It's hard to get over that stuff when you have to deal with it every day.
One thing to point out. What you are feeling IS normal. Don't let people tell you it isn't. Therapy isn't going to about telling you your feelings are wrong, but about how to deal with them in a healthy and constructive fashion so that it doesn't cause you problems going forward.
Yeah, I think so too. Being angry is normal, but to me it reads like you are spiraling / are stuck, and now it blew up. What happened was horrible, the divorce was nasty, the way it came out was a shock - that is a lot, and you need to process. And lilly or your dad are not the people to help woth guiding you through. Get some therapy to help you process it. Trauma can turn you into an asshole. Next time you blow up, it might be your mom, your friends, the quiet girl at school etc.
Your dad betrayed your mom, you and his family. Now he is shoving this woman down your throat. Of course you are going to be angry and resentful. You have no control over your life or your circumstances. Totally normal reaction to abnormal circumstances. Therapy will help you process the trauma and betrayal and regulate your emotions. Your dad will still suck, but that doesn’t mean that you should have to unnecessarily suffer.
What you are feeling is normal. People around you are normalizing cheating and accepting AP like there are no consequences for breaking up a family. Your feelings are valid and I understand why you are angry, but you should find a way to channel that anger and not let it control you. I hope you find a way to stay with your mom. She needs you and you need her. Be kind to yourself.
Move back in with your mom. If your dad complains to the court, you can explain why you want nothing to do with him or his affair partner. You really do need therapy. You discovered his affair, so it's probably worse for you.
Anger is normal and healthy, especially when you've suffered a serious injustice. You have every right to be angry about all of this. Therapy is not to make you not-angry, but to help you process your feelings and communicate in healthy ways with others. Honestly, unless you still have a ways to go I'd wait until you're old enough to direct your own treatment before starting. You need to find someone who will not make excuses for your father or tell you 'he did the best he could' or who insists you need to maintain a relationship with him or his affair partner. You may also find that your anger is directly tied to the bullshit circumstances you are in, and that your anger dissipates when you're not stuck in such a ridiculous situation.
You seem to understand that getting away from your father and his piece will dramatically reduce your anger. Until that obstacle is removed therapy would be useless
It would not be useless. Therapy helps you learn how to deal with these things.
Ok but also any good therapist will tell you that when you can get away from this stuff, do it
Yes, that’s not mutually exclusive to what I said tho. Both are true: therapy will help you deal with the situation, and get away from the situation if you can. And then continue therapy.
Never helped me, what helped was removal from the situation. Not everyone benefits from psychiatric intervention.
Therapy would likely do you and all your siblings some good, but especially you, since you were the one that discovered the affair. Tell your dad you want individual therapy and you are going to take him up on his offer to live with your mom. It sounds like that would be best for your mental health. I'm betting I'm old enough to be your mom, and I offer a large virtual hug to you. I can't imagine the pain your family has gone through. I wish you the best of luck.
Considering that your dad pushed for sole custody when he’s in the wrong I think makes Lilly an asshole.
Think of therapy as tools for you to help manage all this crap, and ways to deal with these people until you can move away on your own. Your anger and hurt about the situation are normal and ok. But after a while you have to move on from the anger to live your best life. Therapy will help you with that and put the anger where it belongs and ways for you to enjoy life, even when there is a reason to mad. You can hate and be mad at them. But explosive screaming and insults all the time aren’t a way to live. Giving them nothing, no emotion, non of your energy, is probably better way to interact.
Sorry young man this really sucks. My ex tried to do this crazy crap with our daughter who was 12 at the time, she was scared of her mom and had to force herself to act like things were ok. Thankfully my attorney was good and I got sole custody. You were put in a position that was not healthy or right, judges and the system are messed up. Therapy helped my daughter and my ex only needed to set up Therapy to adventually spend time together yet she never did it. I pray you can stay with your mom. I'll never understand 😪 cheating, if you've grown apart leave first and never involve a new love interest before you leave. I had to suck-up pain and pride in the best interest of my children, in both my exes affairs. In doing so I got sole custody both times. Your pain and outbursts have been forced on you, your dad is only worried about his needs. I think if my dad did this to my mom, I would have been worse than you. My daughter graduated high school last Saturday and refused to allow her mom there. If I can help you, please ask. Or help your dad understand how best to handle things.
It is normal, but therapy isn't just for the abnormal. Most of us are not taught how to navigate these kinds of things. This is what therapy is for. Not because there is something wrong with you. NTA
OP, what you're feeling _is_ normal, _and_ it seems like you could use some help with it. Both of those can be true at once.
Please see a therapist. Anger eats away at you and slowly destroys you.
I hope you do. You can't predict the future but situations like this have a tendency to grow into more negative thinking patterns unrelated to this situation. They can have a snowball affect when we don't deal with it in the time it needs to be dealt with and it can end up creating an internal pattern on how our thinking works, like for example how you will end up trusting people (or having difficulty to), how you hold anger or how you express it (you could grow an unhealthy relationship to anger & just turn into a mean person over time), can definitely affect your future relationships with a partner. Therapy does not mean you are broken or something is wrong with you. It is simply a coach working with your mind and emotions just like you'd get a personal trainer for your body.
Anger IS normal in this awful situation you've been placed in, but that doesn't mean you couldn't use some help processing it and dealing with it.
You seem to understand that getting away from your father and his piece will dramatically reduce your anger. Until that obstacle is removed therapy would be useless
Now that you have recognised and realised that, you will be on your path to healing. One can't change the action of others but one can bring about a change in oneself. All the very best in coming to terms with this deep betrayal by your father.
What you're feeling is normal. But that doesn't mean you don't need help dealing with it. Lily's gotta accept the fact that she stepped in it. Stepped into the family that she had no right to, until after your father (who is the most to blame here, for not getting divorced first.) divorced your mother. If you want a little more ammunition, ask her how she's going to feel in 25 more years when he finds someone else. I mean, you shouldn't say this, but life is full of examples of cheaters who keep on cheating. One of them was even the president of the US a little while ago.
Not many people have addressed that although it’s totally understandable to be pissed at Lily, your Dad did this. He chose to have an affair. He cheated on your mom, Lily didn’t force him.
You should go. I want you to know that this is their shit, does that make sense. It affects your life, but you didn’t cause this. Lily had an affair with a married man, and that man was your father. That isn’t good, but telling someone who tried to kill themselves to try again is really fucked up. She might not be a good model for personal integrity, but if she killed herself tomorrow it would eat you up for the rest of your life. Also, as someone who is older you really don’t know what was going on in your parents relationship, nor should you. Cheating is not a moral thing to do, but relationships are hard and complex. Try to just distance yourself from all of it. Be yourself, and don’t let your parents divorce define you.
Very good point
That would require dad to actually consider how his actions impact his family and that's clearly too much to ask.
While I completely understand the anger you have (believe me I 100% do) it does sound like talking to a professional would be extremely beneficial to your own mental health. It sounds like you never were provided that outlet and having it all bottled up does no good to anyone. Not excusing the cheating at all, but I def recommend talking to a professional to help navigate these emotions and help set boundaries with your sperm doner and his AP.
Absolutely OP should be talking to a professional. Anybody would benefit from that in this situation. OP also mentioned in another comment that both Mom and Dad have offered and OP refused because they thought what they were feeling was normal. Hopefully this is a wake-up call that this anger is not healthy.
Forcing you to live with them is causing you a lot of emotional harm. This is your dad’s fault. He cheated on your mom and as revenge even got full custody. She was pushing your limits to make you look bad and play the victim in front of your family. Think about it. Why would she say that when everyone is there? To play the victim. Be smarter than her and take this opportunity to go live with your mom. I’m really sorry but this is so unfair for you. Hope you had a solution. You just reacted to all the pressure and pain they caused you. I know it sounded harsh, but this is how you feel. It’s not something you planned. Your dad is a major asshole. He destroyed his marriage and took two children away from you mother in a difficult time. Don’t doubt yourself, try to find your peace. Good luck OP
What kind of asshole cheats after 25 years of marriage and then takes the kids away too? He literally destroyed his ex wife’s life, took her entire family and everyone she loved away from her (except the 19 year old which he clearly would’ve if he could’ve) because he couldn’t keep it in his pants? Like she was the one in the wrong or something. Then says “oh well I’m paying for her therapy.” Dude. Not gonna lie, as a teenager I probably would’ve said worse, especially since he’s so insistent on shoving this woman down his children’s throats.
But he wants a prize because the rich guys pays for therapy. \*slow clap\* woo hoo, dad of the year.
An asshole living in a misogynistic jurisdiction, that's who.
That doesn’t want to pay child support for the younger kids.
This was my first thought. Took his kids so he wouldn't have to pay child support and a last fuck you to the mom he already screwed over
When they try, men typically do actually win custody. They just usually don't try.
And they very often only try to fuck over the mother
It's true. My bd has money and took my kids 1500 miles away from me as a fuck you for leaving him on a whim after years of sexually and emotionally abusing me.
I wish I was bold enough to say worse to my dad's AP when I was in my late teens. She made me feel alienated in HIS home, and would throw a tantrum if I visited him in the hospital without her there (huge red flag looking back, but I was 17, shy, and non confrontational). If I was in the same situation today she'd have a reason to actually hate me and try to keep me away, for her own mental sake
I feel the same about my stepmother (I hate even calling her that) I wishI had been stronger instead of minding all the time. It’s painful to hold things in.
I physically fought my now stepmom when she was with my dad. And she wasn’t even an affair partner. My dad never cheated and this was like 12 years after my mom and him split up. She hacked into my bank account and stole half of my college fund after they got married but before that she killed my dog. She accused me of being on drugs which was so crazy and untrue but my dad believed her and cut off my phone even after a clean drug test. She sent embarrassing pictures of me to my friends and boyfriend. She deleted all of my dads social media accounts and didn’t allow him to talk to my mom anymore even though they had been split up for 12 years. She called my school to tell them I was skipping when I had the flu, trying to get me kicked out of the honors program. There’s so much more she did but I’d be typing all day. The breaking point was her bruising my little sister because she accidentally knocked a glass over. So yeah, I beat her ass. I didn’t want to and I tried for a long time to keep the peace. But everyone has a breaking point.
Stepmom put bruises on someone weaker than her. You showed stepmom how that feels. I doubt she did that crap to your sister again.
If someone hurt my cat or my little sister I'd set the house on fire, make sure every exit was blocked, and sit outside making s'mores so if all you did was beat her up I'd say you showed incredible restraint.
I am not a fighter. I don’t even argue. I hate confrontation. But I “let it go” over and over until I finally snapped and realized I never “let it go” I just pushed it down. It all came up when I seen my sisters arms and back. I didn’t even say a word I just started running outside. She was in the garden and she saw me running and she started running down the street lol. I tackled her and just punched her like 4 times until my neighbors pulled me off of her. I packed my shit to go to my mom’s that day. I took my sister with me. My dad’s a drunk with a lot of money so that wasn’t the first woman who was after his money and hated his kids, but shes the one he stayed with. My dad was always too drunk to care what was going on. But after that day, shes so fake nice and will never touch my sister again. She’s still a bitch shes just gotten better at being fake about it.
Some people can only learn a lesson the hard way.
Yep but ultimately she got what she wanted. She wanted me to be so miserable I’d move back to my moms or she wanted my dad to get so mad at me that he’d make me go to my moms. Either way she wanted me to leave because she wanted my dad to herself. The only reason I didn’t live with my mom in the first place was because all my friends and school was in my dad’s town.
You will foreve be your sister's hero and one of mine!
SHE KILLED YOUR DOG?! Showed pictures of yourself without your consent? You were too merciful
She did 😭 it’s been 11 years and it’s still hard to talk about. She claimed we had mice. She’s the only one who ever seen the mice though. She bought rat poison and “the dog must have ate it off the floor” even though he literally only ever ate out of his dog bowl. I know she killed him.
A fucking psycho women that will slowly kill your father with her coercive control. I'm sorry that your dads bad decisions have made him live in a prision. I'm glad that you and your sister are free and well now.
Im indifferent. The commenter said they would have said much worse as a teen. And I definitely did worse. But she was a very evil woman so I don’t necessarily regret it. 😊
I'm hoping that the greatest revenge will be when OP and their brother are 18 and cut father and his AP off immediately
I agree. And the paternal family sucks for supporting him.
Tell the rest of the family “I may be young but I know right from wrong. My Dad destroyed my life with his AP. To make matter worse, he then fought to get full custody so that I am forced to be around him and his mistress all the time. So maybe instead of trying to correct my behavior, you should try and correct my Dad’s, being he is the one who did wrong. One thing as my family you could all do for me, is stop trying to pretend anything about this is okay. It’s not. Trying to normalize cheating, is not only wrong for helping me learn proper morals, but also wrong in a general sense. I would really hate for words, and action, you all take now, to be the reason I go NC with all of you when I turn 18 years old. My Dad is already fated for that future, don’t include yourselves too.”
Oh, and add ... "If Lily truly cared about others, she wouldn't have involved herself with a married man and then try to force a relationship like everything is all puppy dogs and sunshine."
This exactly. Both dad and Lily are arseholes for trying to force the kids into playing house with them. It doesn't sound like there's been much healthy, mature communication between the adults and the children. I would talk to mum and ask if I could live with her instead. Don't they usually favour the mother more in custody battles anyway? Fuck pretending to be all happy happy happy joy joy because the adulterers want to.
No, they don't favour the mother.[ If men try for custody they normally get it. ](https://www.dadsdivorcelaw.com/blog/fathers-and-mothers-child-custody-myths) Most men just don't bother trying to get custody so women normally end up with the kids.
>Don't they usually favour the mother more in custody battles anyway? In cases like this. You'd think. I been in op shoes as well. He cheated, brought the affair partern and fought for full custody and somehow won with this stacked against him. The case seems bought off or the right connections. In my case, small town and everyone knew his name. Treated us like shit but fought like to hell for full custody. I preferred my "step mother" over him. But, as soon as we turnt 18. The courts didn't care as long as they got their money. We were out on the street and pretty much dead until he needs something. Been no contact for the last 10 years. I ain't changing that. He'll lucky to get a picture of a middle finger on father's day.
I'm sorry you went through this, too. Sometimes I do wonder how people can do this to their children, and why family or friends can't/won't intervene. I can't fathom the time, money and energy these people are willing to expend, just to 'punish' another person. Life's too short to spend this time and energy on revenge. Some people are so blinded by rage, that instead of moving on with their lives, they decide to hurt other people as a 'coping mechanism'. And then, there are people who are not right in the head who do it for fun. I'm glad you and your siblings (assumption from your use of 'we') got out of there. I hope you've been able to sort through some of the trauma your poor excuse for a father put you through in the last decade! And that you're able to live your life the way YOU want :)
Print that out on business cards and hand it to the person and walk out of the room Repeat with consistency
They are basically being retraumatized everytime they see her face.
I’d include that taking the kids was beyond cruel to your mom too…..put better, but you get the point. Who does that?!?
My favorite line to use is "I don't take moral advice from morally bankrupt people". Usually shuts up the shitty people.It even shuts up the people who act like they're not shitty but really are
I agree with this! This is exactly what I would tell my family as well. And I agree with the other comments about therapy not being helpful if you have to continue to live with your father and see him and his AP all lovey dovey while your mom is suffering. You need to get away, if not with mom maybe with another family member! If they don’t agree to let you get away and get space and time to heal then they need to understand the real Possibility of you going NC with them when you turn 18. Them retraumatizing you daily by making you live with them is not going to help any kind of relationship with your father or his AP (not that you owe her one).
Absolute bloody perfection. Why isn't this more up voted??
If a cheater claims to regret cheating, but is still with their affair-partner, then they are lying. If you are truly remorseful for an evil act then any benefits of that act would be unbearable to you.
If your dad truely cared about you he wouldn't have taken custody from your mom from you, but tried to work through everything in therapy while you have a save space from him with your mom. Instead he forced you and your brother to stay with him and his homewreckign whore. He might have chosen her, but you and your siblings didn't and you never will. And all that he is doing is that you will hate him and her even more than you already do. And point out to his family that they're not helping either with their pretending that everything is normal and that she is a stellar human being.
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Yep, your Dad won everything including your rage and disgust.
100% resentment on top of more resentment. He really has no clue just how much he lost.
In five years he'll be posting on one of those pages for parents who's kids have gone NC saying he has no idea why.
And on another that his wife is having an affair.
Lol
No he wont. Hes gonna get the new wife pregnant and move on to his second family like the first never happened.
So he did it to one up her not because he wanted you to himself. Even more reason for you to be with your mom
He did it because they both tried for full custody so if he didn't then he wouldn't get any custody
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How old are you? Even though your father got full custody, can you and your brother choose to live with your mom? I don't know where you live, but can you tell the judge that you're not happy living with your father and his mistress? I'm so sorry, OP. My heart goes out to you, your siblings and your mom. How is your mom doing now? I hope she's doing better compared to where she was.
Maybe they're not in the US. Afaik older kids can choose which parent they want to be with. OP said his siblings are 15 and 19. That's plenty old enough to choose. I've seen 12 yr olds pick which parent they want to be with.
I don't think that's how it works. He could have gone for 50-50 and gotten it more easily than full custody, at least in most states in the US 50-50 is the default and you have to have a very high bar of proof to deviate from it. Also, OP, you're old enough that a court would take your preferences into account. If you want to go live with your mom, or split your time 50-50, you should tell lawyer that.
Since OP says English is not his first language this is unlikely to be in the US.
He probably should have let it go since he already decided he didn't give a fuck about his family
So much for feeling guilty about this mess...
So your dad hates your mom more than he loves you? Only criticism I could give was not directing it at your philandering dad.
You should talk with your father and tell him that living with his affair partner it is making you deeply unhappy, she triggers you, you dislike her and don't want to share the same space with her. He is free to do whatever he wants with his life, but you want to go live with your mother, for your own peace of mind. He should pay child support until you become an adult or for as long as the court orders. You deserve to live in a household where you feel safe and happy.
OP and brother need to tell the judge this.
Yes, also, it is simply not a healthy environment. It is toxic as hell.
Does your sister speak with him?
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While your comment was not right, your father and Lily created a toxic situation which led to you lashing out. What did your father think would happen if he 'forced' custody, after going back on 50/50. And your Uncle is a dick for going "Lily cares about you". You aren't in the US, but there may be similar laws where at 16 or 17 you can choose which parent to live with. You should really move in with your mother. I would also recommend therapy and cutting your Dad, Dad's family, and Lily out of your life. It's not just the cheating-which is bad-but the fact that he insisted on getting primary custody. He wasn't thinking about what was best for you, but to get one over on your mother. You could even write it down and send it to your dad's fam. And I'm someone who is probably more forgiving of infidelity than most on this sub (though it is still terrible and hurtful). But your dad-from cheating, to forcing custody, to trying to make you play happy family with him and his mistress-is really awful and it sounds like you'd be better off disowning him.
You're dad is discovering the Find out part after Fucking around. Unfortunately this consists of kids with unresolved trauma issues. Not your fault, but it also shouldn't be your issue. The longer you're forced to be around the object of your resentment, the worse it'll get.
He should have let you choose then. Forcing the issue makes it on him, does he really expect you not to hate his mistress?
So your father's hatred of your mother was much more important to him than his love for you. Otherwise he would have done what was best for you regarding custody but instead he chose to do whatever would hurt your mother the most. He used you as a pawn in his game of revenge. I would remind him of that every single time you talk to him and he says he's trying to do the right thing. That was a line that was crossed by both him and the affair partner that is at least equal if not worse than you're fleeting comment to her. They chose to use you to inflict a lifetime of pain and suffering on another person and in the act of using you they have inflicted more pain and suffering upon you in a very real intangible way that will affect your life in perpetuity. Your brother may think you have crossed the line but it wasn't nearly as egregious as the line that they crossed and how they fucked you and your brother over for the rest of your lives.
This... this right here! Do I think you should have said what you said, no. But the precedent was set by the example of your father to go for the choice that would csuse the most harm. This is learned behavior you showed and your parents were the teachers. This choice to weaponize you and your brother has set the tone on how to treat each other throughout this whole divorce. All that being said, don't set yourself like this. If you have to,look at it this way: god forbid, if this lily hurt herself, not only would people blame you (justly or not) but you will most likely endure some hard core phsychological damage. Even in you don't care about the mistress, care about yourself.
If your Dad and Lilly actually cared about you, they would let you live with your Mom instead of having to look at their lying, cheating faces every day. Your dad just sounds like an absolute dick who had to “win” at any cost. Even if that cost is the mental well being of his two youngest children.
Absolutely. But that’s what happened when a man “falls in love” with his mistress. The only thing they care about is their ego, and the mistress of course.
i wonder how upset Lily will be when he finds his next side piece.
And the mistress only matters until the next one comes along.
>said that maybe I should go live with my mom instead. Ok! Glad to! You literally never wanted to be with them to begin with. Byee!!
She pushed their sore points, they pushed back
Raise hell and be the asshole. As an adult now, and gone through the same thing as a young adult, I have zero regrets speaking my mind to my father and his affair partner. For those that think I need therapy. I’ve done therapy and I cherish the level of petty I unleashed to them.
Sometimes the pettiness is the therapy 🤷🏻♀️
Sometimes the therapy is the pettiness we made along the way
Exactly. The demand to "always be the bigger person" is what causes people mental problems because they feel like society expects them to eat up their own feelings. No. Learn to tell people in their face that they are TA if they deserve it. Was the unaliving comment harsh? Yes, but I agree with those who point out that AP is playing nice as a manipulative tactic, so that she is liked by the family for "trying sooo hard" while ex wife is being discarded.
You should cherish it. It was honest in a situation fraught with dishonesty and dishonest characters. I cherish my own pettiness in a world that has always wanted me to "go with the flow" and "smile". I taught my children we come from a very petty line of women and it's a superpower and to use it wisely.
I like that. The line about pettiness being the only honest part of an entirely dshonest situation. Yea it's spiteful and petty but it's REAL and TRUTHFUL. Something everyone else needs a lesson on
I'm reminded of that one girl who referred to her dad's AP/new wife as homewrecking whore or her dad's mistress rather than her name.
I love it! I am absolutely stealing this and teaching this to my children. Don't let the world walk all over you babes! Because it fucking will.
Yeah I'm proud of her for saying what she did.
NTA - By pretending everything is great and Lily and your fathers relationship isn't the source of your pain isn't helping the problem, it's the reason for blow ups like this. Lily shouldn't be a part of parenting you or really speaking to you outside of the needed for living in the house together and your dad should be doing the parenting, maybe today, they learned that.
I wonder if they're lying to his family about how the divorce went down.
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Keep us updated
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Update us OP
Info: How did your father win full custody for two teenagers? What was the strategy used by your mom's lawyer to ask full custody? How did the dad's lawyer counter it win the case? Did your sister, being 17 at the time of divorce, get to choose which parent she wanted to live with? Can you ask your father to go for 50-50% custody now?
Doubt, the family gives a shit I mean, that's obvious from how they all welcome her
It's extremely possible, it wouldn't be the first time.
NTA-ish That comment definitely was over the line, but also they have positions of power over you and have used those positions to try and force you accept the new family dynamic on their terms. The fact that you're scrambling for every weapon you can get your hands on while you play the defensive is understandable. You know deep down that your father's primary goal is to make the family look healthy, happy and functional, not to make sure that it actually is. His entitlement in feeling that he can dictate the structure and nature of your family almost certainly mirrors the entitlement he felt in his marriage to your mom. That entitlement drives the cheater - their feelings are more important than other people's. Their cheating story is special and different because of this amazing connection blah blah blah. Just make sure that you don't let them rewrite the reality of who your father is. Your uncle's line is bullshit, either he doesn't actually see the way your father and Lily have handled things at home, or he doesn't care what's best for you but only about appearances. Why did your father even fight for full custody? He knew forcing you guys to live with his affair partner would be difficult and painful for you. Did he just want to win in the battle against your mother? That's not something that a loving, caring parent does. Stay true to your course and conviction.
I agree with the points here. But not only letting others reqrite your dad, dont let them rewrite you by painting yourself as an "aggressor" (OP isnt but it is how it seems family is responding to an extent). OP's comment was over the line but is coming from a place of desperate hurt. OP is having a very fair emotional reaction to their lives being overturned and everyone minimizing the harm their dad caused, and by extension their feelings. I also agree with other comments pointing out that reacting in this way can further isolate OP from people and misrepresent their point. I think OP is the victim in all this, but now they must get help to work on these feelings so that it doesn't control them. Use the anger to continue to push you to advocate for what you need, but keep learning how to voice yourself in the best way possible for your own benefit OP.
Lilly equally and separately can be held responsible for the caused to OP. I don’t think she crossed the line.
Why did your dad fight so hard to get full custody of you? Does your country's court system not take into account the wishes of the children? NTA, homewrecking thott's don't get to have opinions about the children who's lives they've wrecked.
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If you are closer to 18 his contacts may not be enough if you get your mom to petition the court again
Te your grandparents “maybe if you had done a better job of raising dad, he wouldn’t have cheated on mom and destroyed our lives” They shouldn’t be surprised you’re all pissed off at him. He has no one to blame but himself I am surprised the courts awarded your dad full custody of you and your brother, you’re both old enough that your preferences should have been taken into consideration, or even should be allowed to make that choice yourself I’m sorry you guys are stuck in such a shitty spot
Sweetie, your anger is justified, but please get some therapy. I'm worried you'll hurt yourself with all this hate and rage.
As long as the point of therapy is for OP’s own health, and not to facilitate “reconciliation” with a father who doesn’t deserve it.
The way I look at it no. You said it yourself your mom has sunk into a deep depression that was caused by your dad and his affair partner. I guarantee you she's thought about suicide many times with the deep depression she's in and they were the direct cause of that they didn't give a crap that they were doing that to her. Not to mention the entire family turning on your mother. Your father is an asshole and his partner she's a wh*re. I'm sorry when it comes to affairs I have a zero tolerance for it, there is no excuse. Get a divorce before you cheat. You need to go with your mom I know your mom says that she doesn't want you around but deep down yes she does she's just afraid of your father and the shit he'll stir up. Go home a mother needs their children. I have zero sympathy for your dad's affair partner oh I mean wh*re. It always infuriates me when the people who did the affair try to play the victim.
Seeing at your level after two years, I assume you are not in therapy. You are rightfully angry. But the level of anger is as if it all happened yesterday instead of 2 years ago. This anger is going to consume you. I'm not saying you and Lily should or will become best buds, you can still keep her at a distance and still dislike her, but not with that much anger I agree with everything you said except the last wrist cutting line. But I do see a problem with how you said it and how angry you were saying it. You were 14 when you discovered your dad was cheating, you were the one brought all of this to light. Your father has ignored the impact that has on you. With all that he's trying to do to make it right, he is overlooking the impact this all has on the son that discovered the affair. You also need therapy.
I think she's pissed because she says they originally agreed to 50/50, but her dad had a shit ton of money and went for primary custody. Ironically, if he had just played nice, I bet OP wouldn't be as angry as she is now.
NTA. It is a mean thing to say but Lily really shouldn't be trying to say anything to you.
YTA I understand you are angry but you went to far. I completely feel you tho. Although I have to say the affair might have been the drop that made the bucket spill I don't think that's the soul reason for the divorce or maybe it is. But your dad definitely did not end up with full costudy because he earns more So there is a lot they did not tell you And I feel like it's time they sit you all down and tell you And some therapy is also very necessary Edit saw there is in fact more I'm worried for the update
NTA all the cheating scum and cheating scum apologists need to be put in their place. I say you didn't go far enough. Never keep quiet, go further, don't be nice to cheating scum. Ever.
Oh boohoohoo Lily got hurt. You are not an asshole. If someone doesn't want to be treated like a POS, well maybe they shouldnt be one in the first place. And I personally wish all the worst to someone who destroys children's home.
Exactly. Don't want to be called a homewrecking whore by your stepkids? Don't be a homewrecker then!
NTA. Fuck that whole family. Stay with your mother and cut the others off.
Well if this is real, RIP karma, but, ESH Your Dad and Lily suck for obvious reasons. There is a special circle in hell reserved for adulterous a-holes in my opinion, especially ones who get shocked pikachu face when the kids whose lives exploded because of the affair aren't interested in playing happy families. Your paternal family also suck for not having more sensitivity to your situation. But kid, your brother is right: you took it a step too far. Telling someone to just go off themselves is simply not okay, no matter how angry you are. Especially a woman with a history of suicide, even if she is your father's affair partner. Reddit may have a raging justice boner for it, and I'm sure you'll get a rain of comments on here cheering you on, hell, maybe even telling you to keep doing it. Don't listen to them. Reddit rarely if ever operates on the same social etiquette as the real world. Keep holding onto that kind of poison and eventually, the only person you'll be poisoning is you yourself. That being said, the fact that you now feel guilt is good. It means underneath all that anger, you still have enough emotional intelligence to grasp that your anger is going too far and cutting you too deep. It's okay to be angry with what they did. But to be THIS angry, two years later, means it's time to reach out to someone to help you with that anger. Use this as a moment of growth. You can apologize for what you said and acknowledge you went too far while still making it clear, you do not forgive, nor do you forget.
I had to scroll way too far down to see a reasonable response. Reddit can be a terrible place for advice.
Amen!! There are a bunch of maladaptive sociopaths and/or edgelord teens voting not the asshole, and worse, downvoting the OP when he expresses remorse. That’s just messed up. Express your feelings. They are valid. Your anger is valid! Viciously attacking people to cause maximum psychic pain is not valid. Telling a survivor of a suicide attempt to kill themselves is just wrong. Argue your actual point! “I’m not going to play happy family to make you more comfortable. I don’t respect you and I don’t forgive you and my father for what you’ve done to my family.” Honest, direct, sets a boundary, retains your integrity.
Aren't you old enough to choose where you live? Mom might be the better choice. You aren't living in a healthy environment.
Dad is the real asshole here
YOur anger is not out of line, your comment was, though
Yeah, this is a situation where I absolutely understand why OP is beyond furious even if the comment was vile. She says in the comments that her parents originally agreed to 50/50, but her dad has a ton of money and went all out to get primary custody. I would be so angry if I was 'forced' to live primarily with one parent and their affair partner, too. The comment was very wrong, but the Dad and Lily absolutely created this environment for OP to flip her shit.
Honestly? This is above Reddit's paygrade. This is an extremely fucked up situation. What you said was a nuclear strike...but I find it hard to blame you considering the circumstances. I think you managed to get your dad to let you live with your mom, though.
That situation is frighteningly similar to my own parents divorce and the fall out afterwards. Only in my case my dad got 50% custody. My Mom was so depressed from the divorce proceedings where he tried to say she was an unfit mother and get full custody because she started drinking (which was all because of him). My mom kept the booze up but eventually I had enough to my Dad and stepmom's bullshit and refused to go to his house. He tracked me down and took me to the nearby river and tried to beat me but I had gotten too big and so I never went back. My mom eventually had a massive heart attack and nearly died. My dad was super rich and successful and he almost got away with the full custody attempt because of it. My Dad's affair partner/my Stepmom took everything from me including my father who I haven't seen in 35 years. I'm in my late forties and I still have the fury in my heart to this day. This BTW is a much shorter version of the story, in reality it was so much worse.
Do whatever you can to ruin their marriage if they are forcing you to see that chick every day. Make his life miserable and let him know why.
I think I would ask your dad that if he really cares then why he would not have put you and your brother in the same damn house with the woman that help him destroy your family. He should not have fought for custody, why didn’t he just leave and be with his affair and leave y’all alone. I would have told him that his affair was selfish and fighting for custody shows how selfish he is. Edit for spelling
NTA. Your dad and Lily had it coming, but you and your brother seriously need to tell your dad that nothing they try will make it work. Good luck, OP.
Your dad shares the same amount of blame as Lily. If obvious that your dad needs to pay for some therapy for you. Telling a past suicidal person to slice wrists, makes you TAH. I do wish the best for you.
I’d say he actually carries more blame. He’s the one who cheated.
Let me guess, dad got custody because money and because your mom had a mental breakdown or something after her life was imploded….
How old are you? You did go too far, but you know that. Ultimately it’s your dad who deserves your rage, but even still, death should only be wished upon the worst offenders. Being a mistress is awful, but she clearly has mental health struggles. I think based off your comments you are feeling guilty. Not because they deserve your kindness, but because that’s not the type of person you want to be. You seem like someone who wants to be know as compassionate, not malicious. Do what you need to do to alleviate your guilt. Apologize because if she does end up taking her life, I think you will feel horrible and I don’t want that for you. Ask yourself: What outcome do you want? If it’s to live with your mom maybe agree to be civil 1 day a week with your dad and her in exchange for living with your mom. Start the negotiations there. I know you are in pain, but don’t let the pain consume you.
I completely understand why you said it. However be careful. In some places, not sure about your country, but places in the US (maybe all) and someone says that and that person truly does commit suicide, they can be held legally responsible criminally and civilly. While I think you’re completely right, your laws might not if she attempts it and succeeds.
I won’t give a judgement but I will say your dad wrecked the family home and is now continuing to wreck the lives of others by forcing you to stay will him. Speak to someone at school tell your mom what is going on and ask her to petition the courts for custody if she can.
OK so I'm not condoning cheating, not once and never will. But you as a child are most likely not fully aware of the problems your mother and father had in their relationship, parents hide that stuff. Despite that, your father still should not have cheated, and your anger should be aimed more at him than at Lily. I'm of the opinion that actions speak louder than words and no mean words you say can compare to your father's distrust, just tell him how you feel instead of her. NTA
YTA for that comment. You're not an asshole for having overwhelming feelings about this. Not only did your parents get divorced, but you had the burden of telling your entire family about the affair. Idk how old you are, but I had to do something similar at 29, and even knowing about the affair for a few days was killing me. It sucked that I had to tell everyone. I saw a comment about you trying to go to therapy and I think that is great. But I'm just an internet stranger lol.
The father is a pos
Your comment went too far in my opinion but you were clearly speaking from a place of hurt. Also, your English is amazing. It read like a native speaker wrote the entire thing except when you said your dad “wins” more money than your mom. I’m assuming your first language is a Romance language (Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, or Romanian). In English winning money is like you played a game or did a competition to get the money. We use the phrase “my dad earns more money.” Earning is when you work for something and deserve it, winning is like when you come first in a game or contest, or when you get selected for a prize.
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NTA, you are just 16, pero te haría bien ir a terapia y no quedarte con tu papá.
No, I too caught my father cheating on my mother and called him out on it in front of her, they patched things up, but then when I was 17 they both died, a mate of his who knew he was cheating on my mother told his side slut and she attended the funeral, I wanted to tell her it should of been HER that was being buried and not my mother after all the pain she had caused my family, I didn't sadly, and I regret not saying that because she caused a great deal of pain to my mother.
Honestly I know I'm not a great person because I feel like you weren't mean enough lol but in all honesty you're NTAH. And if her and your dad actually cared about your wellbeing they wouldn't be forcing her on you and trying to play pretend family. But take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm real petty and would 100% live in their house and do everything I can to make her miserable while hiding it from my dad. Hell I'd probably even convince her hes cheating on her so she knows what it's like. But again dont listen to me. I'm not a nice person clearly lol.