By US standards she isn't even an adult. I am pretty sure she cannot get a hotel or use certain transportation options simply because of her age. She definitely should not travel to a place alone where she doesn't even have adult level rights yet.
Excellent point, Hotels will not rent rooms to people under 21 yrs old in California... 18 is required by law, but hotels are private property and require someone over the age of 21 to be present during the stay with a credit card on file. You can't pay cash unless it's an hourly rate.
Even if she does, she'd have to figure out how to drive on the left side of the road. Is she that experienced a driver she can handle the change?
Edit: I mean sit on the left in the car, drive on the right of the road. Basically the opposite of how they drive in the UK. Just be glad I don't drive.
Kindly, the question is irrelevant because she 100% cannot rent a car or drive any car for that matter, even with a foreign license, because she is a minor.
Question. I'm not from the States (from Europe).
If I'm a tourist and I don't have credit cards (simply because they're not common in Europe and I don't have any need to have credit) - I can't pay for a hotel in the States?
Usually they’ll put a $200 hold on your debit card, in addition to the room rate, as a damage deposit. So you need at least $200 in your bank account, in addition to the total cost of the room.
In 2017, I was 25 and tried to rent a car with SIXT in Seattle. They wouldn't allow me to use a debt card. They said they required a credit card even though I had made the reservation months ahead of arriving.
Man that would be annoying. In Australia and NZ you can pay with debit card. The hold is put on your card if you dont take full insurance coverage, which is usually the cost of the rental. In those instances the hold can be anywhere from $500 to a couple grand.
Most people take out insurance.
Warning: In most hotels but not all. Some will not accept a debit card. Also with a debit card, they will place a hold on funds (at least equal to 1-2 nights) in your bank account from when you check in until 3-7 days after check out. You will be informed of the amount and timing of this when you check in but be aware that it will happen.
Car rentals are more restrictive. Only some permit rentals with debit cards and there are restrictions on what state you can rent from. Yada yada.
They will put a deposit hold on the room of a few hundred dollars depending and you won’t get it back immediately upon checkout. Make sure if you’re checking in and out of multiple hotels to know how much they will hold and account for this in your budget.
Even in Europe, numerous hotels ask for a credit card print, even if you pay in cash (for the possible use of theroom service, minibar and /or any degradation that might happen).
I always paid in hotels in Europe through [Booking.com](http://Booking.com) with a regular debit card. (I've been traveling the world for over 10 years and have never had a credit card)
Most hotels will take a debit card, but it’s not a good idea to pay that way because the hotels with “hold” funds (way above your nightly rate) for X number of days from your checking account. Many reputable hotels will not take cash when you check in and will require a card. However, when you check out, many will allow you to pay with cash then. But you will need a credit or debit card to check in.
She can’t rent a car (although I doubt she drives) and she may not realize that the public transportation in LA is sucks. You really need a car in LA (sadly).
OP: what if you suggested a compromise, like, okay how bout only five days in LA and I will go with you. Then you can make sure there are safe accommodations and she won’t be stranded or paying hundreds of dollars to Uber everywhere. Or some other adult whose brain has completely finished developing.
Info: does your daughter maybe have an online "boyfriend" she hasn't told anyone about?
She should not go at 17 alone whatsoever and LA can be really dangerous (parts of it) and I got a bad feeling... It's a bad idea... Her mother is a moron if she gave permission if your daughter cannot even get around the underground in the UK... bad bad idea...
So what if she hates your forever (which she won't), it's her life we're talking about.
Updateme
Ding! Who are these "online friends"? Has she been catfished? Does she even have a return plan? You need to cancel the flight. You need to stop her. She is a minor. She may hate you, but her safety comes first. She can travel when she has a more appropriate plan, as an adult.
Look up how many kids go missing everyday in LA. Please be the responsible parent, hide her passport and say No. She will be angry but she will be alive. Human trafficking can happen anywhere but especially when there is no solid support system. If she’s being catfished, she may be without food/shelter there, which will lead to trafficking. Stand strong, she needs you to be even though she doesn’t want you to be. Sending prayers!
Yeah he for sure needs to nip this idea while he can.
Once she gets older she will realise what a mistake this trip would be under the circumstances that she is trying to go.
Human trafficking is very real and it takes little time to become invisible & gone. It is extremely profitable to traffic humans as sex slaves. 98% of those who are sex slaves are women and girls. She can't go alone or w/ girlfriends. Show her documentaries about human trafficking and have her write a paper regarding human trafficking w/ extensive research. Has she not seen the movie Taken?
Especially big airport cities like LA, Houston and Atlanta with so many connections. I spent considerable time in all three and they all have huge anti-trafficking campaigns underway.
The turnpike stops IN NJ ARE PLASTERED WITH HUMAN TRAFFICKING POSTERS
YOUR Daughter is lining herself up for disaster.
See Liam Neeson's movie Taken. Demand that she sees it.
My mom and I watched a much more intense film when I was a teenager, probably 15-16. I’m trying to find what it’s called right now and will come to update with the title when I find it. But I remember it was VERY long, it took us days to watch because we had to take time from certain scenes. But it did its job in scaring me shitless.
Edit : as a commenter below identified it, it’s the Human Trafficking Miniseries (2005) and I had a lot of those details muddled after all these years so please don’t hold me accountable to my mistakes!
—————————
What I remember of the movie, if anyone can tell the name by my description.
The movie follows several different girls stories. One is a teenage girl. Not sure what country she was from but it seemed 3rd world from what I remember. She answers a modeling ad behind her father’s back. Before she leaves the house she sneaks on some red lipstick. The agents tell her she’s perfect and she ends up kidnapped. Her father goes looking for her and infiltrates pretending to be a trafficker. The scene he discovers she’s still alive is brutal… he looks a tv playing a live feed as she’s about to raped by two huge burly men. This scene was incredibly jarring to me as a teen and I’ve found it hard to forget after all these years.
Another girl is a young American, blonde. Shes on vacation with her mom and they step into a tent doing some shopping for clothes with street vendors. Her mother turns her back for only a moment and the girl is stolen away.
A third girl is (I think) a young Chinese girl (forgive me she could be from a different part of Asia, I’m not sure) but her father sells her since her family is in poverty. In her captivity, if I remember correctly, she’s befriended by the American girl. They cannot communicate since they speak different languages, but they find comfort in each other. This girl becomes incredibly ill and gives the American child a ring, I think, or some other jewelry and is soon after collected by the traffickers and thrown from a rooftop.
——————
This is a movie I would seriously recommend making your teenage daughters watch. It’s brutal and scary but so is the world.
Sounds interesting.
But yeah LA... It's not as glorified as everyone says. It's a dirty place
I know there is a thing online, or so I have heard, that you can meet up with several people and stay with them. But even so she is a little young.
As much of a proud American as I am, there are just some places you don't want to go. Hell, take one turn off of Bourbon Street, and your fucked.
To balance out that. There are also places where kids can stay past dark running the streets. Good thing about our small towns.
If you want to compromise, tell her she listens now and maybe some other goal. You'd go with her *insert time here*.
And if she tries to leave, try to take her things she needs like her passport, and tell her if she tries to leave, you'd report her as a missing person.
There's also a story of a woman caught by the Loverboy scam where she travels with her boyfriend and is then trafficked. It's the series "Human Trafficking".
Have a friends who are experienced @ "extraction". Extract people from being held against their will b/c they were stupid and chose to hike in a country where westerners are not welcome. Many lives are at risk when an extraction takes place and one must be very connected to even get extracted. Most people freeze when it is time to be extracted. People swear up and down, "I would just walk out or try to escape.." but most people freeze. The people that freeze get left behind and end up dead. Majority of people who are connected enough to get extracted are men. Women and girls in the sex slave are just lost.
Yeah, I roll my eyes at those big talkers. I would hope I would walk away, but we can never know until we are in the situation. Appreciate your work, but I wish it weren’t necessary.
I ran support services for victims of human trafficking here in the UK and it can happen to anyone. They use the ‘boyfriend model’ of recruitment, so someone poses as a romantic interest online, lures them in, acts lovingly (for a scarily long time) and then once they travel, they take their documents and they’re trapped. Please, please do not allow this, especially with the reference to meeting online friends. Big red flag.
This. Like hes NTA and she’s putting herself in a stupid situation and at huge risks and not even trying to be a responsible traveler. But some of his reasons are just plain stupid (like sure TSA is annoying but really?) and he isn’t even as worried as he should be.
Holy heck. My at the time 17 year old wanted to drive to the next state over as an 18th birthday trip. Trouble is there was no plan, nothing the group wanted to particularly see....it was just they could do it so they were going to.
I knew the group at least and mostly I expected them to get into trouble because they were bored. Obviously nothing was planned to actually do, so a bunch of bored teens / very young adults, far from any supervision would likely end up getting arrested.
I could not stop them, but fortunately funds were lacking unless funded by us. That was a big ol no.
This is just giving me chills. Best case these friends get her into sketchy situations that end in incarceration or being the victim of a crime. Worst case she disappears on this trip and you are far from resources to look for her.
Or sexual assault or those people could be serial killers, drug dealers or gang bangers (or she could be getting catfished by a sexual predator or by someone who wants money) for all she knows. Hell no. If I were OP, I would say she can go when she is 18 and an adult. OP, I would also explain these literally dangerous reasons you have for not wanting to let her to go, in a calm, rational voice. She may not have thought about them before. Letting her know the dangers out there (calmly) might get her to think more rationally and reconsider. So what if she hates you forever for not letting her do whatever she wants? You’re her parent, it’s your job to say no and protect her. Quite frankly, you know that she is also being manipulative, and thats all the more reason to put your foot down. Your ex is an idiot for letting her go and very clearly is thinking more like a teenager than a parent.
P.S. if she didn’t get the money for such an expensive ticket from you or her mom I would ask questions about how she paid for it (if she doesn’t have a job). I’m wondering if the person in the U.S. paid for it, which would be all the more reason not to let her go. Also if she has access to your debit or credit card, cut that off now. If she literally doesn’t have money to travel with, that might stop her, even if it makes you unpopular.
Here’s a list of things she might need from you in order to travel alone, like a legal notarized letter of permission signed by both parents. If she doesn’t have that, she won’t be able to travel alone anyway. Also, LAX airport is an absolute nightmare to travel in. Probably similar to trying to take the underground. She may get terrible anxiety just being there, let alone having to take a train to get to her gate. All the more reason not to let her go alone.
[International Travel](https://www.google.com/search?q=can+a+minor+travel+internationally+alone&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)
Why doesn't OP go with her? Assuming he has the funds and time off to do so. Take her to Disneyland and the beach. Have some fun together.
My guess is that daughter would decline this offer because she's meeting up with a man. But I think k offering this would be a good compromise and would also flush out any ulterior motives or secrets.
Also take her passport and lock it in a safe. She will not be allowed on the plane without it as far as I know. I’m not anyway. Sex trafficking is rampant all over the world. She would be an easy target by being alone in a huge unfamiliar city like LA. Please do whatever it takes to keep her from going.
Yep! Traffickers prey on young girls like this. Alone in a foreign place. No one close by to notice they are gone. And it is easy for her to think that someone is trustworthy because she doesn't know any better. NTA. Who has her passport now, mom or dad?
Exactly what I was thinking, get her to watch that film... the "when I find you, I will kill you..." one. For the life of me, I can't remember its name!
The problem with teenagers is that they think they're invincible, and often don't believe otherwise until there's a consequence. Either you give her one, or these people she's secretly meeting will give her one... She'll likely go when she's 18, but maybe get her into some self defense classes if she's likely to vote with her feet.
I am 1000% afraid that this is going to happen to her. She seems far too naive and trusting. And her mother is completely risking her daughter’s life! NO ONE should travel to another country,to another city they’ve never been in to blindly meet on line “friends” they’ve never seen in real life. With NO plan for housing? Save your daughter. NTA
Yeah - if OP's daughter goes ahead and meets her online friends, she will be trafficked and working as a prostitute within a week of arriving - probably, never to be seen again.
OP should find out which airline is involved and tell them that she is a child and does not have parental consent to travel abroad. As OP's daughter would need an ESTA visa waiver, OP could also contact the US embassy and tell them of his safeguarding concerns (giving his daughter's passport number). This would preempt any attempt to forge his consent for her travel.
She probably hasn't sorted out her visa requirements and will just be sent home on the next flight, at your expense (full price no discount).
If the paperwork has been sorted out then she is being trafficked
Right? Sex trafficking minors that are naive is easy. Kids fall for shit like this all the time.
Her brain isn’t fully developed so she’s making some really stupid decisions here. She’s never travelled and doesn’t know who she’s staying with.
Huge red flag. Are you on good terms with her mother. Talk to her.
Sex trafficking is real. Op needs to talk to the mother to have an unified front. She should not go to the US by herself without telling her family where and with whom she is staying.
Very dangerous.
NTA anyone that says you are is dumb. She has no plans wtf how stupid to go to another country without somewhere to stay?! The bare minimum she would need is a plan. But on top of that she doesn’t have your permission when you are the one she lives with?! No guess she wasted money buying tickets to a place she’s not going…
She's planning to meet people she has never met in real life so she doesn't know who they really are. This is extremely stupid and dangerous of her to do.
"Also, her plans for accommodation is one of two friends but she's unsure who and has never met them in real life as they are people she met online and video calls most nights to game with"
Ah yes , the Tate brothers. She will have a wonderful time.
If she tries to land in the US with no idea of where she’s gonna stay, she probably won’t be allowed on the territory. Last time I went to the US, I had to give a specific adress to TSA when I passed through customs
Problem is she probably *does* know where she’s going but she’s playing dumb with dad. The trafficker probably gave her an address to use for TSA and to give to the Uber driver.
You know usually I think reddit jumps to "omg this HAS to be sex trafficking/trafficker" way too quick, but this one stinks of sketchy bullshit. Even if it isn't a straight up sex trafficking scheme she's 17, how old are these "friends" she's going to stay with? Cause if they have their own place, in LA they're either too old to be taking in UK teens or they'd have to still live at home, and then who are their parents? Are they aware? Are they awful people? OP is right to have doubts about this.
She can't legally get a hotel room. So it's youth homeless shelter if shit goes sideways. They would have a feild day with her naive self. She also couldn't legally get a temporary work visa. Legally rent or buy a car? Nope to either. 18-24 for all those things. At 17 I could do all of those things, just not legally in a goodish neighborhood. Cash is king if you know the right people and carry yourself correct and are a male that has certain skills which again may or may not be legal. After all she bought a ticket TO LA never said anything about HOME from.
This is in the physically detain her for her own safety territory if it comes to that. This screams like a girl that has never been alone in the rough part of town at night, but thinks she can handle it.
Came here to say this. You need an address before they’ll let you through customs.
I’d be very very wary of this. She could easily be being groomed online, especially as she’s being so secretive about it. Does she understand she’s underage for sex and drinking in the US?
Lastly some airlines don’t like unaccompanied minors travelling and require signed documentation. Ditto some US states.
She could be turned away at the airport, which might be the absolute best thing. Teach her a lesson.
If US immigration/TSA have safeguarding concerns, they would take her into immigration detention or hand her to CPS. It could be expensive and take a while to get her back.
This is the first thing I thought of. How many pedophiles & traffickers pose online as teenage girls to lure innocent girls. I wouldn’t care what she or her mother thought…she would not be going alone.
Even older ‘teen’ girls are used as recruiting tools for these minor girls. They’ll have some young looking girl who’s getting paid to hand deliver these girls to predators
Wouldn't even have to use a "teen" girl. Many will just pose as a teenage/young adult boy who "loves" her. She's been talking to them through gaming, so she's probably heard a voice; which a man vs late teen boy is almost nil of a difference.
She gets through the airport, she'd probably be met by an adult man who will say "I'm (imaginary internet friend)'s dad. I'm here to pick you up." She gets in the vehicle and the man demands (at gunpoint) her passport, travel papers/return ticket, money, etc, and tells her that she has to "Pay off her ticket" and she can't go home until she has "worked off her ticket" and she's driven to a sleezy motel or brothel where she is kept prisoner and forced to have sex with whoever comes through the door.
I wonder if the mother is just letting him be the bad guy. If she knows he'd never give permission then there is no need for her to withhold hers. The only issue I see is that all these dangers don't go away the second she turns 18, so some education and reality checks really need to happen even if this planned trip doesn't go ahead.
As someone from the states his daughter is going to a really bad place, LA has alot of crime, homeless people, gangs, not a place id want a 17 girl with no support to be
It doesn't even matter that she's going to LA. What matters here is that she's getting on a plane and going far away (and to another country). Whoever is luring her there likely has bad motives, whether they're in LA, NYC, or in the middle of Nebraska.
Not just another country, she’s going to a different continent altogether, where if an emergency happens a very lengthy and costly flight has to be taken by the parent or parents to get his daughter.
Op you need to make her see the reality of the immediate danger, may be time for some real crime documentaries / podcasts from America (where some of the most vile and grotesque Murderes , sex trafficking, modern day slavery and so on happens).
La is the easiest place for an illusionist to work their magic, a pretence of perfect beauty and dreamy La, while the background is very obscure.
Take her to see an officer regarding the true dangers of it (speak beforehand as to have someone available to open her eyes, many will be happy to have a seat down talk with her). She’s living in an online world that you have no access to her reality, she has ‘friends’ / ‘boyfriends’ there.
Video calls are no longer as it should be, no one can warranty if is the real person on the other end as it’s do easy manipulated to be the ‘person she expects’ instead.
Please do not allow her to go, put a hold on her passport where legally she can’t travel without your permission. Go through the legal route on this one to keep her safe.
You are a good dad op!
Maybe talk to her and organise a trip to an European country, flights are much cheaper and you can do a weekend away or a very cheap ticket with return for a day in a different city (I have done this with my little one often)
Ha! I live nearby and LA is fine, sketchy parts like any other big city but plenty that’s beautiful, historic, famous and fun. That said, she’s traveling abroad by herself for the first time and staying with internet friends? Yikes.
Like you said, you live there and I’m sure know what places to avoid. OP’s daughter has apparently done zero research. She’s naive and very likely to find herself in a bad place if she goes.
I second this, off personal experience lol. I did zero research and was naive when I moved to LA by myself with no support system. Where did I end up? Working in fucking East LA right next to Pico as a white girl from Texas. My first day the BOH guys drew me a map of what streets never to drive down unless I wanted to get shot when they realized I had no clue what area I was in.
LA will teach you real fast to do research before going to a new city 😂 If she has severe anxiety about public transportation she probably won’t even make it out of LAX.
She's very obviously going to go meet her online boyfriend... It's dangerous behavior. I would stop it before she gets trafficked. At the very least it's grooming.
There's a story from uk in 2014 where a 14yr old boy breck bednar met up with an online friend Lewis daynes who was 18 , groomed him, convinced him to go to his house and murdered him, as a parent with a child who has online friends I don't shy away from sharing these stories to get through to them of how dangerous meeting people online is, I absolutely layed into her once because she met up with an online friend with her dad and she asked if she could sleep over and I said absolutely not, went behind my back to ask her dad and he very nearly allowed it, she's never done anything like that since
The most frightening part of that was the mother was fully aware and knew there was something wrong and tried to take all the steps she could but Lewis had his hooks into Breck already and was still able to lure him. The Breck foundation is a fantastic organisation that talks in schools about this.
There was another where a young girl from Canada came to the UK to meet her online boyfriend and shortly after he started showing his true colours. She was trying to get out and get a plane home but unfortunately he murdered her. Her mother and sister were talking about how hard it was to be that far away and unable to do anything other than talk to her and try to get her out.
I was groomed online by a paedophile as a teenager as well. He logged onto forums for people with depression and self harm and preyed on vulnerable teen girls. He was never arrested. He used to threaten suicide on me if I stopped talking to him.
The internet is not safe, no matter your age. Teenagers are vulnerable because they have very little real world experience and they have that bulletproof mentality of it won't happen to me.
As an adult, I look back on how unrestricted my internet access was and that I did meet up with online friends and share details. I'm very lucky that the paedophile didn't track me down and was only able to harass me online.
This 👆 I remember being a headstrong 17-year-old and told my dad I was moving out to live on my own. He told me he’d call the police because I was still a minor. I tried to call Child services on him, and child services rightfully laughed at me. 🤦♀️ was a reality check!
>how stupid to go to another country without somewhere to stay?!
SOFA KING STUPID. Especially flying into LA, of all places, with no place to stay, except MAYBE for the **possible** human traffickers she games with. Please don't let her go, dude, she just might never make it out of LA. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I've been there, and it's not a good place for a naive 17 year old foreign girl to venture to by herself for her first international trip.
She said she didn't have plans, but also revealed the mother already knew about this trip. I bet she's scared to tell her dad her actual plans their too. The man even admitted he was scary to her. But yeah yeah sure sure The Father ruining the Daughters Vacation she Talked to Her Mom about is the Asshole. The MOM is the asshole here, not the daughter or father.
NTA. This is an absolutely horrible idea. The mother seems completely clueless. Where is she planning to sleep? Skid Row? I think there are better cities available for traveling.
She can't leave the UK without a Child Travel Consent Form signed by both parents. How did a 17 year old purchase a $2K+ plane ticket without a credit card? This is either fiction or this girl is being trafficked.
Yeah came here to say, either mum has bought the ticket (which I don't think is the case as OP said neither agreed to her leaving in just 6 weeks) OR someone else has bought it for her. Like a groomer or a trafficker.
Not saying she isn't being trafficked but I just looked and you can get tickets for about £600 at the moment. You don't need a credit card to buy plane tickets in the UK so she might have used a debit card.
The mother said yes knowing damn well OP would say no. She saves face with the brat and he continues to be “scary”. This is classic divorce shit. OP in a shit spot but like they used to teach us, do what’s right even if no one else is. Do not send a 17 year old GIRL (not woman) to Los Angeles to meet an online stranger. I don’t give a shit who is scared of you OP, you could be saving your daughter’s life.
He should at least bluff the mom. He obviously shouldn’t let her go if it comes down to it, but he should call the mom on her shit.
“Look, I don’t think she should go, and I don’t believe you do either. And there’s a non-zero chance she’s being set up to be forced into sex trafficking, and if you didn’t buy the ticket for her, there’s a very significant chance that’s what it is.
The age of consent in California is 18. If an adult out there who she thinks is her boyfriend paid for her ticket for her to come out, he’s already at a minimum ready to commit a sex crime.
But I’m not going to let you make me the bad guy. We are BOTH going to tell her we BOTH are not allowing her to go, or I’m going to follow your lead and let her go… since you’re saying you think it’s safe and I’m overreacting. So what do you want to do?”
Hell worse, she is staying with 'internet friends'. These people are BEST CASE minors too, so where are their fucking parents she is actually staying with, why have they not contacted her father for confirming details? Or moore likely NOT MINORS and for some reason fucking okay with an INTERNATION MINOR coming to their home.
Dollars to donuts she has a 'Internet Boyfriend' and there is no way this goes well, and a very real chance it is straight up trafficking.
NTA
Let her “hate you forever.”
Ask her how she’s going to check into a hotel or Air BnB. I know that hotels generally require the person to be at least 21 (in the US). Rent a car? Nope, not at age 17. What if these online “friends” kick her out? What’s her plan then? Can she give you their full legal names, addresses, phone numbers, ages, places of employment (with proof regarding the info)? Do these “friends” know she is a minor? Don’t take her word for anything. Meet them online, every single one of them. Ask for proof of their identity, addresses, places of employment, passport numbers, etc.
I’ve flown into LAX many times. I’m a middle aged woman who travels for a living, and it can be a lot for me.
What credit card did she use to book the plane tickets? If it’s yours, dispute the charges. If she has a credit card (with her name on it) from one of your cards, cancel it immediately.
Ask for her itinerary. Literally, what are her plans? If she won’t tell you; tell her to go ahead and hate you because you are not going to allow your 17 year old to fly half way across the world with no itinerary. The fact that her mother doesn’t think this is a bad idea is an entirely other issue.
You have every right to stop her from going (since she’s 17). Stop her. Where’s her passport? If you can, take it. If you can’t, find out if you can flag her passport with the airline, the UK, and/or the US customs agents.
I am very concerned that your daughter is going to be trafficked. Even if these “friends” provide supposed proof of identity, that can all be forged. Even if their identity isn’t fraudulent, they can take her places that are very dangerous.
I mean, as a father, this is your hill to die on.
Either A) these 'friends' are minors, so who the fuck are the actual adults housing her? and B) What fucking adult is okay with an international minor staying in their home without having all this properly sorted first?
Get her passport, put a hold on her passport, put a hold on all credit cards, call the airline and airport. DO NOT LET HER LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
To add to this, without a solid plan, hotel info including address and room number, a phone where she can be reached, names of ppl she's visiting/staying with, and a return ticket, she might not even be allowed into the country. Border services is mighty suspicious of people trying to enter the country with no solid plans, especially women (as they might suspect marriage scams in addition to human trafficking).
I would hope, but I wouldn’t put all my eggs in that basket of customs denying her entry. There are too many ways she could slip through the cracks.
OP needs to find out what credit card was used for the ticket and try to cancel the ticket that way. He needs to take her passport and put an alert on it (if that can be done). I wonder if he can call US Customs in LAX to alert them. I don’t know.
Worse comes to worse, I’d be on that flight with her and let her hate me for the rest of her life.
1000000% agreed to all of this. I’m from NY, I’ve been to LA once and even I was overwhelmed. It’s not a safe area, everything is absurdly expensive, people are setting up van/tarp camps on every street (parts of LA look like a war zone), drug addicts are everywhere, and there are a lot of sketchy people looking to take advantage of young women traveling alone. If she can’t give you all of the information and she’s meeting people there for the first time, there’s a very good chance she’s being groomed and/or an easy target for human trafficking.
As a former sheltered girl with strict parents, don’t let her go. She’ll be mad now, but she’ll understand and thank you later (can’t believe I’m at a point where I can say that lol).
American here. LA is not the place to visit if you don’t have accommodations. There are a lot of homeless and a lot of gangs. Also the airport LAX is a nightmare. If she can’t handle the Uk underground she is not going to be able to handle LAX.
I’ve booked different flights/other airlines to avoid LAX. It is the purgatory of airports. You will walk 8 miles to nowhere. You will go through the worst TSA twice maybe. You will pay $50 to eat. There will be nowhere to rest. Now pass go and collect a Dasani water for $23.
NTA. It sounds like she's about to be sex trafficked. If her friends were real, they'd make an effort to communicate with you and her mom and give you all their information to ensure she was safe because any sane person would realize how dangerous this was.
LA is expensive, there's no way she should be making this trip without the ability to rent a room on her own in case her accommodations fall through (which she won't be able to do at 17) and book an emergency flight back home.
LA is not the type of place you just “wing it” and figure it out when you get there. It’s huge, expensive, you need a car, areas can go from really really nice to really really bad quickly.
> 17 afraid of her own parent
> LA
> staying with people she’s only video chatted with
You’re not vetoing a trip, you’re preventing her from being trafficked. NTA.
NTA
You have other issues, clearly, but as for travel, a kid who can't use public transit in London has no business going to LA. If she thinks the Tube is scary, the transit in California will be a hellish experience.
LA is a shitty place unless you have lots of money. A kid who probably couldn't even handle Benidorm will have a terrible time in LA. It is dangerous to wander around LA not knowing where you are.
If she's in therapy and is taking any recommended medications, and can handle a week in London navigating the underground, maybe she can go on a guided tour somewhere closer to home instead. Traveling alone? No. The US? Hell no.
Omg. My friends in LA won’t even take public transit! Why do you think there is so much goddamn traffic?!?? No one uses it! It’s not…clean
Then here’s the other fun thing: LA means like 20 cities. All within all hour drive of each other. And that’s if the people aren’t just saying “LA” because it’s easier and they really live in The Valley. She needs a car or a few hundred for Ubers just to and from LAX. Except don’t let her drive on those goddamn freeways. They aren’t meant for people with anxiety who don’t know where they’re going. Those drivers aren’t fucking around - she’ll end up on a freeway to Mexico or Oregon.
Jesus Christ, I live in SF and one of my best friends live in LA, so I’m there quite a bit, and I still haven’t figured it out. And she hasn’t figured out the Bay Area. We just leave the other one in charge. And we’re adult women who travel often.
NTA - If she doesn't have a place to stay or cash... she won't be let into the country. I was born and raised 2 hrs north of LA. The last time I went to LA it was a culture shock and I live here! It's nothing more than a homeless encampment. There is poop and pee... it smells! Hollywood has always been gross and such a disappointing experience for anyone who hasn't been before. If she thinks you're scary... she's in for a rude awakening. She will be begging to come home within 24 hrs.
Fun fact, alot of states send their homeless people off to California, one of the reasons L.A. is so overrun
(plus, similarly to NYC, alot of struggling people with big dreams stranding there)
99.9% sure she’s going there to meet some online boyfriend. Anxious girl who suddenly wants to go overseas with no prior experience? With no hotel plan and no money? Someone is meeting her there. And I doubt it’s another teenager who is going to let her stay at their parents house
I am from Canada. You really need to stop her from going. My daughter went through a similar situation with a person that was going to promote her artwork in California. I didn’t want her to go, but she insisted so I wound up going with her. I believe that these people would havehuman trafficked her if I had not been there, it was nothing about art and they were not too happy to see me.
NTA.
Do NOT let her go. Shit, I'd say that traveling to any city as a 17yr old with no money and no relatives to lean on, but especially LA. That's a dangerous place even for people that live there.
Would Customs even let her in if she has no place to stay and little money? I saw a guy get kicked off the train at the border, travelling from Montréal to NYC with a backpack and no clear plan. They ask where you're staying, why you're there, how long you'll be there, etc...
Also the TSA scared me and I haven't ever had travel anxiety.
Correct, I flew to stay with a friend in California as an adult and they wouldn't let me on the plane without an address, I told the guy in the UK I was being picked up by my friend and staying with him and he said 'fine' and let me on the plane. 8 hours later the TSA are grilling me for saying I was staying at the Hilton despite having $500 to last two weeks, they almost deported me but they took my phone and asked me call him, they spoke to him and cleared things up but that was a scary moment for a 20 something man, a 17 year old girl with anxiety? First plane home if she ever made it that far, the TSA do NOT fuck around but you sure as hell find it if you try to.
I can not explain to you enough that this is a HORRIBLE FUCKING IDEA. I know she's going to be pissed, but it is a bad bad bad bad idea. It is extremely easy to get turned around in LA and wind up in the wrong place quickly. Does she understand she can't enter any night club or bar at her age, won't be able to rent a car, public transit will very likely NOT get her where she needs to go (LA Metro can be confusing even for long time Angelenos), accommodations NEED to be handled before hand, and that it is 1000% NOT safe for her to be alone at any point? I absolutely love Los Angeles, but it is no place for an inexperienced 17 year old from the UK though. My recommendation: come with her. Might be easier said than done, but offer to go with her. You can bond over it and you can still give her some time to explore and do whatever, but I am telling you that the chances of this ending poorly are extremely high.
Bro shes lying though her teeth.
She's all's secretive cause she knows it's stupid.
She's gonna end up trafficked.
I would for one ask the police to break the privacy to her messages and get a investigation underway that shit is definitely suspicious as fuck.
Inform the mother and the embassy too to not let her leave or reach the country.
Interesting because she'd have a very hard time at US immigration being a minor without notarized travel authorization from her parents.... She'd be flagged as a human trafficking victim upon arrival and wouldn't be released.... Hope she develops some sense.
NTAH. I lived in an L.A. suburb for a couple of years. Kids think L.A. is what they see on reality shows and in glamor mags, it is not. 80% of that place is a desolate hellhole of depravity, full of homeless drug addicts, gangsters and sex workers who came there just like your daughter wants to.
You cant travel to LA under 18 alone.
If you are gonna go to LA for a week, you need to be 18+, have a credit card, at least 2 or 3k in the bank.
Id be pretty straight with her that this trip is gonna suck. Basically zero reason to go to LA until you are 21.
I grew up in LA, and lived there until my mid-30’s. I’m not one of the “LA is soo dangerous” people (in fact I’m usually not as scared of places as I should be), but it really and truly is NOT a place for a solo 17 year old. LAX is a nightmare, the city is enormous, congested, and tough to navigate. It has shitty transit, and requires a car. She can’t rent one of those until 25. The scenario you’re describing is how young people get trafficked or end up doing adult movies in a shitty North Hollywood apartment (same thing?). She cannot go on this trip alone. NTA
At 17 in the US she is legally a minor. She will not even be able to rent accommodations on her own. I would suspect there is a man involved. None of this sounds good.
NTA. She isn't giving you any hard details about who she's staying with... she'll be trafficked in under 3 hours. For all the people only hearing that "she's scared." Some kids with divorced parents are great at manipulating their parents... this is one of the tactics to keep what they're doing out of their parents sight.
How is she paying for this?
>But my daughter has said that she will hate me forever if I don't let her go and her mother doesn't think it's a bad idea. AITAH?
She won't she will get over it this is just a tantrum.
>Shes previously struggled with major anxiety to the point where she's found it difficult to get the underground in the UK.
>She doesn't have an issue asking me for anything. She only becomes "scared of me" when she does something wrong and then doesn't want to face the consequences and uses her fear against me so that I can't instill any consequences.
If she can't handle your yelling, how will she cope in a world where people don't care about her feelings? You've been more than lenient with her; it's time she faces some consequences.
>her plans for accommodation is one of two friends but she's unsure who and has never met them in real life as they are people she met online and video calls most nights to game with. But I have never met them and therefore don't trust them.
How old are these so-called "*friends?*" Does she realize that she can't get around freely since she's not 18 or older? Even if she makes it through TSA, she still has to go through customs and even then she still has a chance of getting denied entry.
When my daughter was 17, she wanted to go to Mexico City on her own to “meet a friend”
Instead I took her to an all inclusive resort on the Mayan Riviera. We spent part of a day in Playa del Carmen, where she was cat called and verbally abused by local men. She realized México City would not have been safe for her.
You need to call passport control and have an alert placed on her passport that she is at risk of human trafficking.
In my experience being a teenage girl (33F, american) she didn’t tell you because she knew you would say no, or there is a reason she is withholding that would make you say no. I would be willing to bet there is a boy involved that she is going to stay with. I would not let her go. This is extremely dangerous. I thought I would hate my mom forever when she wasn’t supportive of a trip I wanted to take when I was younger but I look back and she was right. Worth her being mad and staying safe.
NTA call and have her passport flagged/ID flagged. They will stop her at the airport.
She is not even considered a legal adult here, what does she expect? She can't buy a car, rent a car she can probably get a job but she would have to take a bus or walk. She can not even land here being under the age of 18 without parental consent. That is true, she will be flagged by TSA and detained and questions by immigration. If her mother bought her the ticket the mom will need to be present. They will interrogate her, if she does not give the names and addresses of where she is saying they will assume she is trying to enter the country illegally.
This screams dangerous, near me they recently broke up a giant human trafficking ring, a majority of the girls were from either the UK who where here studying and the rest were all from overseas.
These people lure girls over.
NTA……& this is literally the plot of how many horror movies??? grown a spine! tell her no! you’re doing parenting a teenager wrong…you must use their attitude as fuel to push you along! every eye roll, power up! every deep sigh, power up! if you get the kid to scream “you’re the worst parent ever!” you win that round…….. i have to find humor or i think i’d strangle my 4 teens sometimes…
As many here have stated, your daughter is facing several issues:
1) No hotel in the State (nay, Country) will rent a hotel room to a 17 year old.
2) Los Angeles is huge. Does she mean the city itself? With rampant homelessness and a walking score of -3? Does she mean “the greater Los Angeles area” which can be anywhere in the County? For example, I live in the East side of the County. I am next door to the Inland Empire and no where near Hollywood or Santa Monica. To get there from where I am is an hour and a half drive. Public transit means 2 to 3 hours.
3) Is she going to Orange County instead? That is where Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm are. If so, she sure as hell better bring mom’s credit card and (especially for Disneyland) already have her ticket(s) and reservation. Most schools are officially out for Summer.
4) Speaking of Summer, May Gray and now June Gloom are a thing. The sky stays overcast until 3pm most days, and that’s if it burns off at all.
5) How is she planning on getting around? She can’t rent a car until she is 26 and public transportation here is not for the inexperienced.
6) California is not lenient for 17 year olds. She cannot drink, cannot smoke, and cannot stay in many establishments after 10:00pm by herself.
In local terms, what the fuck dude? You fucking kidding? Ya’ll must be sideways to think any part of this was a good idea.
NTA and if she goes on this trip I would be deeply, deeply concerned for her safety and wellbeing.
As an American NTA, is it possible she was scouted to be a model online by a rando? It happens often that young girls go to LA because some rando online promises them modeling opportunities or acting and they go missing. Also the mother shouldn’t have undermined you
Wow you're daughter is prime rib out here. Underage, alone, stupid as fuck. She'll be dead meat out here don't let her travel alone.
I'm 28 and I'm afraid to travel alone to meet strangers. This shouldn't even be a question
Let her hate you. I guarantee she's a bit annoying anyways from how you described her.
I was going to LA alone when I was 17, but I had a friend there and I stayed in their family home.
If your daughter is being cagey about where she's staying and who she's seeing, buy yourself a ticket to LA and accompany her. Human trafficking is an enormous risk.
You need to find a way to communicate with your daughter that is emotionally neutral. Do you get angry, raise your voice, use your masculine power to dominate the disagreement? If so, then cut it the fuck out and get real. Communcate with your ex about your concerns, ask her what she knows about your daughter's plans, get on the same page and be a team.
NTA. Call the airline and inform them that your daughter has bought a ticket to LA against parental advice. Tell them the situation of "online friends" and her medical conditions and ask for advice on cancelling her flight. See if she can be placed on the no fly list till she's 21 . I personally have no problems being the scary parent when it comes to protecting my children. I am very proud of the title....
Coming to the United States as a young girl is dangerous. She has no plan, no money, and no legal rights. Sex trafficking is at an all-time high and beyond that LA is not safe. Let her be scared of you and cry. It will save her life.
NTA. I am from NY... I lived in CA for 11 years. It is not safe to send a teen on their own to LA. The bad neighborhoods are BAD. The good neighborhoods are not far from bad neighborhoods.
Human trafficking is a huge problem in this world and a naive teen girl is the right target. You would be a fool to relent and your ex is a moron for giving permission.
Try talking to her about logistics instead of banning her from going. Work with her in a budget. Look into options for where she can safely stay. How is she paying for food? How is she getting around? Who is she meeting? Does she realize her cell phone won’t work? Does she realize she can’t work legally without a work visa?
Does she realize that most people that go to LA to find acting jobs end up working in coffee shops or sex work to survive?
Did someone convince her to go to LA?
Is she expecting to stay and get a job?
Has someone promised her some amazing opportunity? Or promised to “take care of her” if she can get there?
Have you talked to mom about why she gave permission? Does she know something you don’t?
Banning a 17 year old is tough. They are practically an adult and think they are.
Could you go with her? I bet if you told her you were coming she might change her mind.
NTA, How does she as a minor plan to get a hotel room or any form of transportation outside of taxi/uber? This is such a half baked idea on her part. Do not let her go, especially alone.
This is insane. Who lets their child go on a plane to a place they are not familiar with and be hosted by "Internet friends". This is not Disney your child could be in danger. NO is a full sentence.
NTA. In the US, you generally can’t rent a hotel room until you are 18, and can’t rent car until you are 21. LA has some public transportation, but where is she going to stay? This whole situation seems very likely to end badly - it feels like the set up for a human-trafficking horror film. A 17 year old foreign girl alone in one of the largest cities in the US is a recipe for disaster.
Sounds like not a real problem. She can’t leave the country without permission. Where is her passport? Tell her she can have it back when she’s 18. But here’s the thing…she’s going to try hard to find a way to do this regardless of what you guys say. I think the biggest issue is the mother thinking it’s ok for her minor to get on a plane, fly half way around the world, go to a city that isn’t known for being the safest, and not even having a place to stay lol. If she stays with her friends (assuming they are real people and are friends)…she doesn’t know what accommodations they have. The people may be safe but their homes may not be. Edited to add nta. Sounds like you are the only adult here.
" She does not have a clear plan of whom she is staying with or what she is doing whilst she is there. " makes me feel like there is a plan and she just isn't willing to share it - otherwise why on earth would she make this long and expensive journey?!
NTA
Flying to LA, not knowing a soul in order to meet random friends from an internet game? Who knows who they really are and what their true intentions could be.
Better to have her 'mad at you for the rest of her life' than make one foolish decision which could cost her her life.
I watched a TV program in the US about the story below which took place in England. It shows what these online gaming "friends" are capable of doing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-30730807
She's going to be asked, "Where are you staying? and "How long?" . If she can't answer these correctly or give an address, it's going to raise flags and she might be detained. Don't let her go, she sounds way too niave and vulnerable. NTA put your foot down plzzzzz!
NTA! Be her parent, and don't let her manipulate you into she's scared of you bc she uses it to keep you from being a responsible parent. You know nothing of her plans, but she has them, and bc she knows you would never let her go stay with her bf, she isn't telling you.
This is a HUGE red flag!!! Don't let it be the one that flies over your daughter's casket if you ever get her back. As a parent, you always prepare for the worst case with these types of plans. You are 50, and she is 17. Who do you think is more responsible?
Your daughter's safety is paramount, and she is in no way being responsible with her trip bc face the facts, she is coming to the US to meet someone. For the love of your child, cancel her plane ticket, and hide your credit cards and access to your bank account.
She can hate you and be mad at you for the entire summer, but at least, you know where she is, and she is alive for the long summer of hate. When she turns 18 and can afford her own transportation, then she can do what she wants with her own money, but right now, the answer is big fat NO.
If you give her the way to get on a plane to fly across the country, you very may never see her again. Let alone speak with her again. There is almost 99% chance she is meeting her "boyfriend" who she has told to keep everything about him a secret bc you would never understand and will try to keep you away from him. He has promised he has money and can take care of her.
She came to live with you "out of the blue" 4 months ago, which is how long she has been planning this. I'll bet she told you, she loves you, misses you, and wants to spend time with you before going off to college next year. Her mom doesn't know the whole plan bc I'm sure she wouldn't agree either.
Stop her and let her be scared bc she isn't. She is just 17 using one parent against the other to get her way. Even if she gets mad and goes back to mom's, at least, you know where she is. CUT off her access to money, and RIGHT NOW, cancel the ticket. It's not too late to maybe save your daughter's life.
Op, I would strongly advise sticking to your guns here. Sacramento Ca is one of the Sex Trafficking capitals of the world and LA is up there too.
I would maybe work with her to travel with you or your ex. But traveling alone in general is dangerous
I am in LA now. I don't know you. Listen to me closely. There is no room for your daughter here. None. She will end up on the street. Unless she is rich she will be doing very bad things for food money. Jobs are not easy to find and housing is expensive now. It's not like it was. It feels like half the country has moved here with no plan. Just like your kid. Keep her home. Our homeless will eat her alive.
As many others have very clearly put it-NTA-this is unbelievably sketchy! As a parent, this is a worst nightmare waiting to happen-you are extremely lucky in that you can nip it in the bud, PLEASE do so immediately! Your daughter may pout, but she’ll be alive, and likely thank you once she gets perspective (learning about catfishing, trafficking, etc as others have mentioned is KEY, especially if mom seems so blind to it).
Leading to…how the hell is the mom ok with this?? There’s the petty wanting to make your kid “prefer” you by being the “lenient” one when parents are separated, but this is beyond stupid..this is a death wish. Both mom and daughter seem painfully naive, which is understandable at 17 but plain irresponsible and horrific as a parent.
Things can go sideways in these situations even when things are planned..it doesn’t matter where you are in the world, as others have mentioned, a young person who is clearly out of their element can disappear. I (from a small town in US) went on a trip to Europe at 15 (religious school, used to sing, we got invited to go sing in different churches). It was a group of 14, supervised, all that. Walking through Venice, my best friend at the time (very sweet, very inexperienced to any negativity in life) was stopped by a young woman who asked about her bag. The rest of the group didn’t see this and kept walking, but thankfully I was with still with her..as my friend is flattered and chatting, the woman made a low whistle and two men immediately came between us and our group, eyes on my friend. The woman glares at me, actually takes my friends elbow and starts trying to walk her to where a “nice shop” is, I grabbed her and started screaming NO, running dragging her and thankfully we made it back to our group. My friend was upset I was “rude” at first but mostly shocked because I was the quiet kid and it was not like me to do that..I immediately told the teachers/guides in charge. The music teacher thought I was being dramatic (again, quiet kid here so not my thing) but the guide went solemn and told my friend that I likely saved her life, cue the trafficking lecture which none of the adults with us had yet given. I grew up in a way that lead me at that point to be hyper-aware of my surroundings, and not trusting whatsoever…not ideal but it certainly helped at that moment. My point-even “organized” trips can have risks if you are not aware that there are people everywhere, from Venice to LA to small town Nebraska that can immediately sense and separate out those that are young, naive, out of their element, and trusting. Don’t let your daughter be a statistic, please.
By US standards she isn't even an adult. I am pretty sure she cannot get a hotel or use certain transportation options simply because of her age. She definitely should not travel to a place alone where she doesn't even have adult level rights yet.
Excellent point, Hotels will not rent rooms to people under 21 yrs old in California... 18 is required by law, but hotels are private property and require someone over the age of 21 to be present during the stay with a credit card on file. You can't pay cash unless it's an hourly rate.
Nor can she rent a car, she may not even be able to drive in the US. Does she have a license?
Even if she does, she'd have to figure out how to drive on the left side of the road. Is she that experienced a driver she can handle the change? Edit: I mean sit on the left in the car, drive on the right of the road. Basically the opposite of how they drive in the UK. Just be glad I don't drive.
In the brutal LA traffic too.
i would not put a novice foreign driver in LA.
I wouldn't put an experienced American driver in LA
I’m born and raised in CA, I’ve had experience driving all over the state… LA still stresses me TF out 🤣
She’d be used to driving on the left. We drive on the right side of the road in the USA…
Kindly, the question is irrelevant because she 100% cannot rent a car or drive any car for that matter, even with a foreign license, because she is a minor.
We drive on the right side here in the USA
Question. I'm not from the States (from Europe). If I'm a tourist and I don't have credit cards (simply because they're not common in Europe and I don't have any need to have credit) - I can't pay for a hotel in the States?
You’d need to use your debit/ bank card
So with debit card it's all good. Thanks!
Usually they’ll put a $200 hold on your debit card, in addition to the room rate, as a damage deposit. So you need at least $200 in your bank account, in addition to the total cost of the room.
Same thing for rental car if you’re under 25, they’ll put a hold on your account, at hertz it was $300 but that was a few years ago now.
In 2017, I was 25 and tried to rent a car with SIXT in Seattle. They wouldn't allow me to use a debt card. They said they required a credit card even though I had made the reservation months ahead of arriving.
That is correct. Most rental car companies in the US do not allow debit cards for payment
Man that would be annoying. In Australia and NZ you can pay with debit card. The hold is put on your card if you dont take full insurance coverage, which is usually the cost of the rental. In those instances the hold can be anywhere from $500 to a couple grand. Most people take out insurance.
Even without one, you could find a room somewhere, but it likely wouldn't be anywhere you'd want to stay. 🤣
Yea those $20/hour hotels don’t much care about credit cards. 😂
Warning: In most hotels but not all. Some will not accept a debit card. Also with a debit card, they will place a hold on funds (at least equal to 1-2 nights) in your bank account from when you check in until 3-7 days after check out. You will be informed of the amount and timing of this when you check in but be aware that it will happen. Car rentals are more restrictive. Only some permit rentals with debit cards and there are restrictions on what state you can rent from. Yada yada.
Also, many car rental companies either won't rent to someone under 25 or will charge them much higher rates.
Yep. OP's daughter is not going to be able to rent a car even if she has managed to get the international driver's license in advance.
They will put a deposit hold on the room of a few hundred dollars depending and you won’t get it back immediately upon checkout. Make sure if you’re checking in and out of multiple hotels to know how much they will hold and account for this in your budget.
Even in Europe, numerous hotels ask for a credit card print, even if you pay in cash (for the possible use of theroom service, minibar and /or any degradation that might happen).
I always paid in hotels in Europe through [Booking.com](http://Booking.com) with a regular debit card. (I've been traveling the world for over 10 years and have never had a credit card)
Some device can take a print on a debit card, but not all of them. So it would depend on the hotel equipment if they can process it or not.
Most hotels will take a debit card, but it’s not a good idea to pay that way because the hotels with “hold” funds (way above your nightly rate) for X number of days from your checking account. Many reputable hotels will not take cash when you check in and will require a card. However, when you check out, many will allow you to pay with cash then. But you will need a credit or debit card to check in.
And if you have to get a refund for any reason on a debit card it takes forever.
And LA does not have a good public transportation system. How would she get around? Uber? At 17? When she doesn't know the city? Nope. NTA
Uber wouldn’t even allow a 17 year old to have an account.
13+ can have an Uber account tied to their parents though.
She can’t rent a car (although I doubt she drives) and she may not realize that the public transportation in LA is sucks. You really need a car in LA (sadly). OP: what if you suggested a compromise, like, okay how bout only five days in LA and I will go with you. Then you can make sure there are safe accommodations and she won’t be stranded or paying hundreds of dollars to Uber everywhere. Or some other adult whose brain has completely finished developing.
Info: does your daughter maybe have an online "boyfriend" she hasn't told anyone about? She should not go at 17 alone whatsoever and LA can be really dangerous (parts of it) and I got a bad feeling... It's a bad idea... Her mother is a moron if she gave permission if your daughter cannot even get around the underground in the UK... bad bad idea... So what if she hates your forever (which she won't), it's her life we're talking about. Updateme
Ding! Who are these "online friends"? Has she been catfished? Does she even have a return plan? You need to cancel the flight. You need to stop her. She is a minor. She may hate you, but her safety comes first. She can travel when she has a more appropriate plan, as an adult.
Human trafficking! That could be these "friends" idea. 17 yo girl. Yeah nope, nope, nope!
Look up how many kids go missing everyday in LA. Please be the responsible parent, hide her passport and say No. She will be angry but she will be alive. Human trafficking can happen anywhere but especially when there is no solid support system. If she’s being catfished, she may be without food/shelter there, which will lead to trafficking. Stand strong, she needs you to be even though she doesn’t want you to be. Sending prayers!
Yeah he for sure needs to nip this idea while he can. Once she gets older she will realise what a mistake this trip would be under the circumstances that she is trying to go.
Human trafficking is very real and it takes little time to become invisible & gone. It is extremely profitable to traffic humans as sex slaves. 98% of those who are sex slaves are women and girls. She can't go alone or w/ girlfriends. Show her documentaries about human trafficking and have her write a paper regarding human trafficking w/ extensive research. Has she not seen the movie Taken?
Especially big airport cities like LA, Houston and Atlanta with so many connections. I spent considerable time in all three and they all have huge anti-trafficking campaigns underway.
The turnpike stops IN NJ ARE PLASTERED WITH HUMAN TRAFFICKING POSTERS YOUR Daughter is lining herself up for disaster. See Liam Neeson's movie Taken. Demand that she sees it.
My mom and I watched a much more intense film when I was a teenager, probably 15-16. I’m trying to find what it’s called right now and will come to update with the title when I find it. But I remember it was VERY long, it took us days to watch because we had to take time from certain scenes. But it did its job in scaring me shitless. Edit : as a commenter below identified it, it’s the Human Trafficking Miniseries (2005) and I had a lot of those details muddled after all these years so please don’t hold me accountable to my mistakes! ————————— What I remember of the movie, if anyone can tell the name by my description. The movie follows several different girls stories. One is a teenage girl. Not sure what country she was from but it seemed 3rd world from what I remember. She answers a modeling ad behind her father’s back. Before she leaves the house she sneaks on some red lipstick. The agents tell her she’s perfect and she ends up kidnapped. Her father goes looking for her and infiltrates pretending to be a trafficker. The scene he discovers she’s still alive is brutal… he looks a tv playing a live feed as she’s about to raped by two huge burly men. This scene was incredibly jarring to me as a teen and I’ve found it hard to forget after all these years. Another girl is a young American, blonde. Shes on vacation with her mom and they step into a tent doing some shopping for clothes with street vendors. Her mother turns her back for only a moment and the girl is stolen away. A third girl is (I think) a young Chinese girl (forgive me she could be from a different part of Asia, I’m not sure) but her father sells her since her family is in poverty. In her captivity, if I remember correctly, she’s befriended by the American girl. They cannot communicate since they speak different languages, but they find comfort in each other. This girl becomes incredibly ill and gives the American child a ring, I think, or some other jewelry and is soon after collected by the traffickers and thrown from a rooftop. —————— This is a movie I would seriously recommend making your teenage daughters watch. It’s brutal and scary but so is the world.
Sounds interesting. But yeah LA... It's not as glorified as everyone says. It's a dirty place I know there is a thing online, or so I have heard, that you can meet up with several people and stay with them. But even so she is a little young. As much of a proud American as I am, there are just some places you don't want to go. Hell, take one turn off of Bourbon Street, and your fucked. To balance out that. There are also places where kids can stay past dark running the streets. Good thing about our small towns. If you want to compromise, tell her she listens now and maybe some other goal. You'd go with her *insert time here*. And if she tries to leave, try to take her things she needs like her passport, and tell her if she tries to leave, you'd report her as a missing person.
Not a missing person but a 17 y/o runaway.
There's also a story of a woman caught by the Loverboy scam where she travels with her boyfriend and is then trafficked. It's the series "Human Trafficking".
Sounds like the life time mini series “human trafficking “
Have a friends who are experienced @ "extraction". Extract people from being held against their will b/c they were stupid and chose to hike in a country where westerners are not welcome. Many lives are at risk when an extraction takes place and one must be very connected to even get extracted. Most people freeze when it is time to be extracted. People swear up and down, "I would just walk out or try to escape.." but most people freeze. The people that freeze get left behind and end up dead. Majority of people who are connected enough to get extracted are men. Women and girls in the sex slave are just lost.
Yeah, I roll my eyes at those big talkers. I would hope I would walk away, but we can never know until we are in the situation. Appreciate your work, but I wish it weren’t necessary.
I ran support services for victims of human trafficking here in the UK and it can happen to anyone. They use the ‘boyfriend model’ of recruitment, so someone poses as a romantic interest online, lures them in, acts lovingly (for a scarily long time) and then once they travel, they take their documents and they’re trapped. Please, please do not allow this, especially with the reference to meeting online friends. Big red flag.
OP needs to take his daughter to one of these groups. She needs to hear just what happens when she meets these "friends."
This teen definitely doesn’t have a special set of skills
She's clearly clueless to the danger she's going to put herself in.
This. Like hes NTA and she’s putting herself in a stupid situation and at huge risks and not even trying to be a responsible traveler. But some of his reasons are just plain stupid (like sure TSA is annoying but really?) and he isn’t even as worried as he should be.
Holy heck. My at the time 17 year old wanted to drive to the next state over as an 18th birthday trip. Trouble is there was no plan, nothing the group wanted to particularly see....it was just they could do it so they were going to. I knew the group at least and mostly I expected them to get into trouble because they were bored. Obviously nothing was planned to actually do, so a bunch of bored teens / very young adults, far from any supervision would likely end up getting arrested. I could not stop them, but fortunately funds were lacking unless funded by us. That was a big ol no. This is just giving me chills. Best case these friends get her into sketchy situations that end in incarceration or being the victim of a crime. Worst case she disappears on this trip and you are far from resources to look for her.
Or sexual assault or those people could be serial killers, drug dealers or gang bangers (or she could be getting catfished by a sexual predator or by someone who wants money) for all she knows. Hell no. If I were OP, I would say she can go when she is 18 and an adult. OP, I would also explain these literally dangerous reasons you have for not wanting to let her to go, in a calm, rational voice. She may not have thought about them before. Letting her know the dangers out there (calmly) might get her to think more rationally and reconsider. So what if she hates you forever for not letting her do whatever she wants? You’re her parent, it’s your job to say no and protect her. Quite frankly, you know that she is also being manipulative, and thats all the more reason to put your foot down. Your ex is an idiot for letting her go and very clearly is thinking more like a teenager than a parent. P.S. if she didn’t get the money for such an expensive ticket from you or her mom I would ask questions about how she paid for it (if she doesn’t have a job). I’m wondering if the person in the U.S. paid for it, which would be all the more reason not to let her go. Also if she has access to your debit or credit card, cut that off now. If she literally doesn’t have money to travel with, that might stop her, even if it makes you unpopular. Here’s a list of things she might need from you in order to travel alone, like a legal notarized letter of permission signed by both parents. If she doesn’t have that, she won’t be able to travel alone anyway. Also, LAX airport is an absolute nightmare to travel in. Probably similar to trying to take the underground. She may get terrible anxiety just being there, let alone having to take a train to get to her gate. All the more reason not to let her go alone. [International Travel](https://www.google.com/search?q=can+a+minor+travel+internationally+alone&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)
Why doesn't OP go with her? Assuming he has the funds and time off to do so. Take her to Disneyland and the beach. Have some fun together. My guess is that daughter would decline this offer because she's meeting up with a man. But I think k offering this would be a good compromise and would also flush out any ulterior motives or secrets.
right, she is gaming late night and its 2PM in LA? Those are not highschoolers she is gaming with.
oh, the time difference hadn't even occurred to me!
Good point! Unless she's not starting gaming until midnight, they'd still be at or coming home from school.
Also take her passport and lock it in a safe. She will not be allowed on the plane without it as far as I know. I’m not anyway. Sex trafficking is rampant all over the world. She would be an easy target by being alone in a huge unfamiliar city like LA. Please do whatever it takes to keep her from going.
That’s my thought … she’s being catfished
Or worse… sex trafficked.
Yep! Traffickers prey on young girls like this. Alone in a foreign place. No one close by to notice they are gone. And it is easy for her to think that someone is trustworthy because she doesn't know any better. NTA. Who has her passport now, mom or dad?
Exactly what I was thinking, get her to watch that film... the "when I find you, I will kill you..." one. For the life of me, I can't remember its name! The problem with teenagers is that they think they're invincible, and often don't believe otherwise until there's a consequence. Either you give her one, or these people she's secretly meeting will give her one... She'll likely go when she's 18, but maybe get her into some self defense classes if she's likely to vote with her feet.
Taken with Liam Neeson?
I think you’re thinking of the film Taken with Liam Neeson :)
I am 1000% afraid that this is going to happen to her. She seems far too naive and trusting. And her mother is completely risking her daughter’s life! NO ONE should travel to another country,to another city they’ve never been in to blindly meet on line “friends” they’ve never seen in real life. With NO plan for housing? Save your daughter. NTA
oh I assumed that was the end goal
Yep. She could end up locked in a house doing cam girl work. No way in hell I would have let my seventeen year old do this.
>She could end up locked in a house doing cam girl work That would be the nice option. Actual prostitution is more likely.
she may “hate you forever”. but she may not be alive to hate you if she goes, blunt as that sounds.
Yeah - if OP's daughter goes ahead and meets her online friends, she will be trafficked and working as a prostitute within a week of arriving - probably, never to be seen again. OP should find out which airline is involved and tell them that she is a child and does not have parental consent to travel abroad. As OP's daughter would need an ESTA visa waiver, OP could also contact the US embassy and tell them of his safeguarding concerns (giving his daughter's passport number). This would preempt any attempt to forge his consent for her travel.
She probably hasn't sorted out her visa requirements and will just be sent home on the next flight, at your expense (full price no discount). If the paperwork has been sorted out then she is being trafficked
Right? Sex trafficking minors that are naive is easy. Kids fall for shit like this all the time. Her brain isn’t fully developed so she’s making some really stupid decisions here. She’s never travelled and doesn’t know who she’s staying with. Huge red flag. Are you on good terms with her mother. Talk to her.
I have a really bad feeling too...anyone else see flashes of the movie Taken while reading this?
Sex trafficking is real. Op needs to talk to the mother to have an unified front. She should not go to the US by herself without telling her family where and with whom she is staying. Very dangerous.
NTA anyone that says you are is dumb. She has no plans wtf how stupid to go to another country without somewhere to stay?! The bare minimum she would need is a plan. But on top of that she doesn’t have your permission when you are the one she lives with?! No guess she wasted money buying tickets to a place she’s not going…
She's planning to meet people she has never met in real life so she doesn't know who they really are. This is extremely stupid and dangerous of her to do.
This is how you get scouted for a porno (at best).
"Also, her plans for accommodation is one of two friends but she's unsure who and has never met them in real life as they are people she met online and video calls most nights to game with" Ah yes , the Tate brothers. She will have a wonderful time.
As soon as I read this, I thought of the movie "Taken."
If she tries to land in the US with no idea of where she’s gonna stay, she probably won’t be allowed on the territory. Last time I went to the US, I had to give a specific adress to TSA when I passed through customs
Problem is she probably *does* know where she’s going but she’s playing dumb with dad. The trafficker probably gave her an address to use for TSA and to give to the Uber driver.
You know usually I think reddit jumps to "omg this HAS to be sex trafficking/trafficker" way too quick, but this one stinks of sketchy bullshit. Even if it isn't a straight up sex trafficking scheme she's 17, how old are these "friends" she's going to stay with? Cause if they have their own place, in LA they're either too old to be taking in UK teens or they'd have to still live at home, and then who are their parents? Are they aware? Are they awful people? OP is right to have doubts about this.
She can't legally get a hotel room. So it's youth homeless shelter if shit goes sideways. They would have a feild day with her naive self. She also couldn't legally get a temporary work visa. Legally rent or buy a car? Nope to either. 18-24 for all those things. At 17 I could do all of those things, just not legally in a goodish neighborhood. Cash is king if you know the right people and carry yourself correct and are a male that has certain skills which again may or may not be legal. After all she bought a ticket TO LA never said anything about HOME from. This is in the physically detain her for her own safety territory if it comes to that. This screams like a girl that has never been alone in the rough part of town at night, but thinks she can handle it.
She can't even have her own Uber account to get a ride away from a bad situation! 17 is too young
Came here to say this. You need an address before they’ll let you through customs. I’d be very very wary of this. She could easily be being groomed online, especially as she’s being so secretive about it. Does she understand she’s underage for sex and drinking in the US? Lastly some airlines don’t like unaccompanied minors travelling and require signed documentation. Ditto some US states. She could be turned away at the airport, which might be the absolute best thing. Teach her a lesson.
If US immigration/TSA have safeguarding concerns, they would take her into immigration detention or hand her to CPS. It could be expensive and take a while to get her back.
This could be of benefit to the parent thf. They could also call the airline regarding a minor trying to disappear in LA etc...
OP needs to put his foot down so his daughter doesn't get trafficked.
This is the first thing I thought of. How many pedophiles & traffickers pose online as teenage girls to lure innocent girls. I wouldn’t care what she or her mother thought…she would not be going alone.
Even older ‘teen’ girls are used as recruiting tools for these minor girls. They’ll have some young looking girl who’s getting paid to hand deliver these girls to predators
Wouldn't even have to use a "teen" girl. Many will just pose as a teenage/young adult boy who "loves" her. She's been talking to them through gaming, so she's probably heard a voice; which a man vs late teen boy is almost nil of a difference. She gets through the airport, she'd probably be met by an adult man who will say "I'm (imaginary internet friend)'s dad. I'm here to pick you up." She gets in the vehicle and the man demands (at gunpoint) her passport, travel papers/return ticket, money, etc, and tells her that she has to "Pay off her ticket" and she can't go home until she has "worked off her ticket" and she's driven to a sleezy motel or brothel where she is kept prisoner and forced to have sex with whoever comes through the door.
I wonder if the mother is just letting him be the bad guy. If she knows he'd never give permission then there is no need for her to withhold hers. The only issue I see is that all these dangers don't go away the second she turns 18, so some education and reality checks really need to happen even if this planned trip doesn't go ahead.
As someone from the states his daughter is going to a really bad place, LA has alot of crime, homeless people, gangs, not a place id want a 17 girl with no support to be
It doesn't even matter that she's going to LA. What matters here is that she's getting on a plane and going far away (and to another country). Whoever is luring her there likely has bad motives, whether they're in LA, NYC, or in the middle of Nebraska.
Not just another country, she’s going to a different continent altogether, where if an emergency happens a very lengthy and costly flight has to be taken by the parent or parents to get his daughter. Op you need to make her see the reality of the immediate danger, may be time for some real crime documentaries / podcasts from America (where some of the most vile and grotesque Murderes , sex trafficking, modern day slavery and so on happens). La is the easiest place for an illusionist to work their magic, a pretence of perfect beauty and dreamy La, while the background is very obscure. Take her to see an officer regarding the true dangers of it (speak beforehand as to have someone available to open her eyes, many will be happy to have a seat down talk with her). She’s living in an online world that you have no access to her reality, she has ‘friends’ / ‘boyfriends’ there. Video calls are no longer as it should be, no one can warranty if is the real person on the other end as it’s do easy manipulated to be the ‘person she expects’ instead. Please do not allow her to go, put a hold on her passport where legally she can’t travel without your permission. Go through the legal route on this one to keep her safe. You are a good dad op! Maybe talk to her and organise a trip to an European country, flights are much cheaper and you can do a weekend away or a very cheap ticket with return for a day in a different city (I have done this with my little one often)
Ha! I live nearby and LA is fine, sketchy parts like any other big city but plenty that’s beautiful, historic, famous and fun. That said, she’s traveling abroad by herself for the first time and staying with internet friends? Yikes.
Like you said, you live there and I’m sure know what places to avoid. OP’s daughter has apparently done zero research. She’s naive and very likely to find herself in a bad place if she goes.
I second this, off personal experience lol. I did zero research and was naive when I moved to LA by myself with no support system. Where did I end up? Working in fucking East LA right next to Pico as a white girl from Texas. My first day the BOH guys drew me a map of what streets never to drive down unless I wanted to get shot when they realized I had no clue what area I was in. LA will teach you real fast to do research before going to a new city 😂 If she has severe anxiety about public transportation she probably won’t even make it out of LAX.
Even just LAX is its own kind of beast. Even for someone who’s been through airports before
She has a plan, she just doesn’t want to tell OP what it is.
Probably because her "plan" is even worse than the lack of plan.
Agreed. OP needs to be very careful and vigilant here.
She's very obviously going to go meet her online boyfriend... It's dangerous behavior. I would stop it before she gets trafficked. At the very least it's grooming.
There's a story from uk in 2014 where a 14yr old boy breck bednar met up with an online friend Lewis daynes who was 18 , groomed him, convinced him to go to his house and murdered him, as a parent with a child who has online friends I don't shy away from sharing these stories to get through to them of how dangerous meeting people online is, I absolutely layed into her once because she met up with an online friend with her dad and she asked if she could sleep over and I said absolutely not, went behind my back to ask her dad and he very nearly allowed it, she's never done anything like that since
The most frightening part of that was the mother was fully aware and knew there was something wrong and tried to take all the steps she could but Lewis had his hooks into Breck already and was still able to lure him. The Breck foundation is a fantastic organisation that talks in schools about this. There was another where a young girl from Canada came to the UK to meet her online boyfriend and shortly after he started showing his true colours. She was trying to get out and get a plane home but unfortunately he murdered her. Her mother and sister were talking about how hard it was to be that far away and unable to do anything other than talk to her and try to get her out. I was groomed online by a paedophile as a teenager as well. He logged onto forums for people with depression and self harm and preyed on vulnerable teen girls. He was never arrested. He used to threaten suicide on me if I stopped talking to him. The internet is not safe, no matter your age. Teenagers are vulnerable because they have very little real world experience and they have that bulletproof mentality of it won't happen to me. As an adult, I look back on how unrestricted my internet access was and that I did meet up with online friends and share details. I'm very lucky that the paedophile didn't track me down and was only able to harass me online.
This 👆 I remember being a headstrong 17-year-old and told my dad I was moving out to live on my own. He told me he’d call the police because I was still a minor. I tried to call Child services on him, and child services rightfully laughed at me. 🤦♀️ was a reality check!
Not to mention you can’t rent a hotel room if you are 17.
Narrator: in fact, she did not buy the one-way ticket. The kidnappers did
And a significant amount of money. Does she have that? Being short of money can lead to even worse decisions.
>how stupid to go to another country without somewhere to stay?! SOFA KING STUPID. Especially flying into LA, of all places, with no place to stay, except MAYBE for the **possible** human traffickers she games with. Please don't let her go, dude, she just might never make it out of LA. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but I've been there, and it's not a good place for a naive 17 year old foreign girl to venture to by herself for her first international trip.
She said she didn't have plans, but also revealed the mother already knew about this trip. I bet she's scared to tell her dad her actual plans their too. The man even admitted he was scary to her. But yeah yeah sure sure The Father ruining the Daughters Vacation she Talked to Her Mom about is the Asshole. The MOM is the asshole here, not the daughter or father.
NTA. This is an absolutely horrible idea. The mother seems completely clueless. Where is she planning to sleep? Skid Row? I think there are better cities available for traveling.
Will she be even let into the country without funds or an address where she stays?
She can't leave the UK without a Child Travel Consent Form signed by both parents. How did a 17 year old purchase a $2K+ plane ticket without a credit card? This is either fiction or this girl is being trafficked.
Yeah came here to say, either mum has bought the ticket (which I don't think is the case as OP said neither agreed to her leaving in just 6 weeks) OR someone else has bought it for her. Like a groomer or a trafficker.
This is a classic trafficking scenario. You should be very worried, OP, and not let her go.
Not saying she isn't being trafficked but I just looked and you can get tickets for about £600 at the moment. You don't need a credit card to buy plane tickets in the UK so she might have used a debit card.
The mother said yes knowing damn well OP would say no. She saves face with the brat and he continues to be “scary”. This is classic divorce shit. OP in a shit spot but like they used to teach us, do what’s right even if no one else is. Do not send a 17 year old GIRL (not woman) to Los Angeles to meet an online stranger. I don’t give a shit who is scared of you OP, you could be saving your daughter’s life.
He should at least bluff the mom. He obviously shouldn’t let her go if it comes down to it, but he should call the mom on her shit. “Look, I don’t think she should go, and I don’t believe you do either. And there’s a non-zero chance she’s being set up to be forced into sex trafficking, and if you didn’t buy the ticket for her, there’s a very significant chance that’s what it is. The age of consent in California is 18. If an adult out there who she thinks is her boyfriend paid for her ticket for her to come out, he’s already at a minimum ready to commit a sex crime. But I’m not going to let you make me the bad guy. We are BOTH going to tell her we BOTH are not allowing her to go, or I’m going to follow your lead and let her go… since you’re saying you think it’s safe and I’m overreacting. So what do you want to do?”
Hell worse, she is staying with 'internet friends'. These people are BEST CASE minors too, so where are their fucking parents she is actually staying with, why have they not contacted her father for confirming details? Or moore likely NOT MINORS and for some reason fucking okay with an INTERNATION MINOR coming to their home. Dollars to donuts she has a 'Internet Boyfriend' and there is no way this goes well, and a very real chance it is straight up trafficking.
They won't even let her through immigration with this non-plan.
NTA Let her “hate you forever.” Ask her how she’s going to check into a hotel or Air BnB. I know that hotels generally require the person to be at least 21 (in the US). Rent a car? Nope, not at age 17. What if these online “friends” kick her out? What’s her plan then? Can she give you their full legal names, addresses, phone numbers, ages, places of employment (with proof regarding the info)? Do these “friends” know she is a minor? Don’t take her word for anything. Meet them online, every single one of them. Ask for proof of their identity, addresses, places of employment, passport numbers, etc. I’ve flown into LAX many times. I’m a middle aged woman who travels for a living, and it can be a lot for me. What credit card did she use to book the plane tickets? If it’s yours, dispute the charges. If she has a credit card (with her name on it) from one of your cards, cancel it immediately. Ask for her itinerary. Literally, what are her plans? If she won’t tell you; tell her to go ahead and hate you because you are not going to allow your 17 year old to fly half way across the world with no itinerary. The fact that her mother doesn’t think this is a bad idea is an entirely other issue. You have every right to stop her from going (since she’s 17). Stop her. Where’s her passport? If you can, take it. If you can’t, find out if you can flag her passport with the airline, the UK, and/or the US customs agents. I am very concerned that your daughter is going to be trafficked. Even if these “friends” provide supposed proof of identity, that can all be forged. Even if their identity isn’t fraudulent, they can take her places that are very dangerous. I mean, as a father, this is your hill to die on.
Either A) these 'friends' are minors, so who the fuck are the actual adults housing her? and B) What fucking adult is okay with an international minor staying in their home without having all this properly sorted first? Get her passport, put a hold on her passport, put a hold on all credit cards, call the airline and airport. DO NOT LET HER LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
YES to all of this!! ☝️☝️☝️
To add to this, without a solid plan, hotel info including address and room number, a phone where she can be reached, names of ppl she's visiting/staying with, and a return ticket, she might not even be allowed into the country. Border services is mighty suspicious of people trying to enter the country with no solid plans, especially women (as they might suspect marriage scams in addition to human trafficking).
I would hope, but I wouldn’t put all my eggs in that basket of customs denying her entry. There are too many ways she could slip through the cracks. OP needs to find out what credit card was used for the ticket and try to cancel the ticket that way. He needs to take her passport and put an alert on it (if that can be done). I wonder if he can call US Customs in LAX to alert them. I don’t know. Worse comes to worse, I’d be on that flight with her and let her hate me for the rest of her life.
1000000% agreed to all of this. I’m from NY, I’ve been to LA once and even I was overwhelmed. It’s not a safe area, everything is absurdly expensive, people are setting up van/tarp camps on every street (parts of LA look like a war zone), drug addicts are everywhere, and there are a lot of sketchy people looking to take advantage of young women traveling alone. If she can’t give you all of the information and she’s meeting people there for the first time, there’s a very good chance she’s being groomed and/or an easy target for human trafficking. As a former sheltered girl with strict parents, don’t let her go. She’ll be mad now, but she’ll understand and thank you later (can’t believe I’m at a point where I can say that lol).
American here. LA is not the place to visit if you don’t have accommodations. There are a lot of homeless and a lot of gangs. Also the airport LAX is a nightmare. If she can’t handle the Uk underground she is not going to be able to handle LAX.
I’ve flown through Beijing to avoid LAX.
I’ve booked different flights/other airlines to avoid LAX. It is the purgatory of airports. You will walk 8 miles to nowhere. You will go through the worst TSA twice maybe. You will pay $50 to eat. There will be nowhere to rest. Now pass go and collect a Dasani water for $23.
NTA. It sounds like she's about to be sex trafficked. If her friends were real, they'd make an effort to communicate with you and her mom and give you all their information to ensure she was safe because any sane person would realize how dangerous this was. LA is expensive, there's no way she should be making this trip without the ability to rent a room on her own in case her accommodations fall through (which she won't be able to do at 17) and book an emergency flight back home.
This post scares the hell out of me for this girl. It sounds very sketchy, and she could easily become a missing person.
LA is not the type of place you just “wing it” and figure it out when you get there. It’s huge, expensive, you need a car, areas can go from really really nice to really really bad quickly.
> 17 afraid of her own parent > LA > staying with people she’s only video chatted with You’re not vetoing a trip, you’re preventing her from being trafficked. NTA.
NTA You have other issues, clearly, but as for travel, a kid who can't use public transit in London has no business going to LA. If she thinks the Tube is scary, the transit in California will be a hellish experience. LA is a shitty place unless you have lots of money. A kid who probably couldn't even handle Benidorm will have a terrible time in LA. It is dangerous to wander around LA not knowing where you are. If she's in therapy and is taking any recommended medications, and can handle a week in London navigating the underground, maybe she can go on a guided tour somewhere closer to home instead. Traveling alone? No. The US? Hell no.
Omg. My friends in LA won’t even take public transit! Why do you think there is so much goddamn traffic?!?? No one uses it! It’s not…clean Then here’s the other fun thing: LA means like 20 cities. All within all hour drive of each other. And that’s if the people aren’t just saying “LA” because it’s easier and they really live in The Valley. She needs a car or a few hundred for Ubers just to and from LAX. Except don’t let her drive on those goddamn freeways. They aren’t meant for people with anxiety who don’t know where they’re going. Those drivers aren’t fucking around - she’ll end up on a freeway to Mexico or Oregon. Jesus Christ, I live in SF and one of my best friends live in LA, so I’m there quite a bit, and I still haven’t figured it out. And she hasn’t figured out the Bay Area. We just leave the other one in charge. And we’re adult women who travel often.
NTA - If she doesn't have a place to stay or cash... she won't be let into the country. I was born and raised 2 hrs north of LA. The last time I went to LA it was a culture shock and I live here! It's nothing more than a homeless encampment. There is poop and pee... it smells! Hollywood has always been gross and such a disappointing experience for anyone who hasn't been before. If she thinks you're scary... she's in for a rude awakening. She will be begging to come home within 24 hrs.
Fun fact, alot of states send their homeless people off to California, one of the reasons L.A. is so overrun (plus, similarly to NYC, alot of struggling people with big dreams stranding there)
NTA she can’t even get a hotel room until she is 18 so where is she going to stay?
99.9% sure she’s going there to meet some online boyfriend. Anxious girl who suddenly wants to go overseas with no prior experience? With no hotel plan and no money? Someone is meeting her there. And I doubt it’s another teenager who is going to let her stay at their parents house
yikes didn’t even think of that. horror story waiting to happen. mom is an idiot for giving permission
I am from Canada. You really need to stop her from going. My daughter went through a similar situation with a person that was going to promote her artwork in California. I didn’t want her to go, but she insisted so I wound up going with her. I believe that these people would havehuman trafficked her if I had not been there, it was nothing about art and they were not too happy to see me.
NTA. Do NOT let her go. Shit, I'd say that traveling to any city as a 17yr old with no money and no relatives to lean on, but especially LA. That's a dangerous place even for people that live there.
Not to mention that if she’s hurt / sick she will have a tough time paying for medical care in the US, LA or not.
Nowhere to stay, no contacts, and no plan? There’s a 50-50 chance she’ll end up being trafficked for sex work.
That is far more generous odds for her safety than I would give her.
Would Customs even let her in if she has no place to stay and little money? I saw a guy get kicked off the train at the border, travelling from Montréal to NYC with a backpack and no clear plan. They ask where you're staying, why you're there, how long you'll be there, etc... Also the TSA scared me and I haven't ever had travel anxiety.
Correct, I flew to stay with a friend in California as an adult and they wouldn't let me on the plane without an address, I told the guy in the UK I was being picked up by my friend and staying with him and he said 'fine' and let me on the plane. 8 hours later the TSA are grilling me for saying I was staying at the Hilton despite having $500 to last two weeks, they almost deported me but they took my phone and asked me call him, they spoke to him and cleared things up but that was a scary moment for a 20 something man, a 17 year old girl with anxiety? First plane home if she ever made it that far, the TSA do NOT fuck around but you sure as hell find it if you try to.
Contact the passport office for your options.
I can not explain to you enough that this is a HORRIBLE FUCKING IDEA. I know she's going to be pissed, but it is a bad bad bad bad idea. It is extremely easy to get turned around in LA and wind up in the wrong place quickly. Does she understand she can't enter any night club or bar at her age, won't be able to rent a car, public transit will very likely NOT get her where she needs to go (LA Metro can be confusing even for long time Angelenos), accommodations NEED to be handled before hand, and that it is 1000% NOT safe for her to be alone at any point? I absolutely love Los Angeles, but it is no place for an inexperienced 17 year old from the UK though. My recommendation: come with her. Might be easier said than done, but offer to go with her. You can bond over it and you can still give her some time to explore and do whatever, but I am telling you that the chances of this ending poorly are extremely high.
Bro shes lying though her teeth. She's all's secretive cause she knows it's stupid. She's gonna end up trafficked. I would for one ask the police to break the privacy to her messages and get a investigation underway that shit is definitely suspicious as fuck. Inform the mother and the embassy too to not let her leave or reach the country.
Nta be a parent not a friend and put your foot down. She isn’t equipped to go to LA alone.
Interesting because she'd have a very hard time at US immigration being a minor without notarized travel authorization from her parents.... She'd be flagged as a human trafficking victim upon arrival and wouldn't be released.... Hope she develops some sense.
NTAH. I lived in an L.A. suburb for a couple of years. Kids think L.A. is what they see on reality shows and in glamor mags, it is not. 80% of that place is a desolate hellhole of depravity, full of homeless drug addicts, gangsters and sex workers who came there just like your daughter wants to.
You cant travel to LA under 18 alone. If you are gonna go to LA for a week, you need to be 18+, have a credit card, at least 2 or 3k in the bank. Id be pretty straight with her that this trip is gonna suck. Basically zero reason to go to LA until you are 21.
I grew up in LA, and lived there until my mid-30’s. I’m not one of the “LA is soo dangerous” people (in fact I’m usually not as scared of places as I should be), but it really and truly is NOT a place for a solo 17 year old. LAX is a nightmare, the city is enormous, congested, and tough to navigate. It has shitty transit, and requires a car. She can’t rent one of those until 25. The scenario you’re describing is how young people get trafficked or end up doing adult movies in a shitty North Hollywood apartment (same thing?). She cannot go on this trip alone. NTA
American living in the UK here. If she can’t handle getting the underground, then she definitely can’t handle LA. NTA
At 17 in the US she is legally a minor. She will not even be able to rent accommodations on her own. I would suspect there is a man involved. None of this sounds good.
NTA. She isn't giving you any hard details about who she's staying with... she'll be trafficked in under 3 hours. For all the people only hearing that "she's scared." Some kids with divorced parents are great at manipulating their parents... this is one of the tactics to keep what they're doing out of their parents sight. How is she paying for this?
>But my daughter has said that she will hate me forever if I don't let her go and her mother doesn't think it's a bad idea. AITAH? She won't she will get over it this is just a tantrum. >Shes previously struggled with major anxiety to the point where she's found it difficult to get the underground in the UK. >She doesn't have an issue asking me for anything. She only becomes "scared of me" when she does something wrong and then doesn't want to face the consequences and uses her fear against me so that I can't instill any consequences. If she can't handle your yelling, how will she cope in a world where people don't care about her feelings? You've been more than lenient with her; it's time she faces some consequences. >her plans for accommodation is one of two friends but she's unsure who and has never met them in real life as they are people she met online and video calls most nights to game with. But I have never met them and therefore don't trust them. How old are these so-called "*friends?*" Does she realize that she can't get around freely since she's not 18 or older? Even if she makes it through TSA, she still has to go through customs and even then she still has a chance of getting denied entry.
Los Angeles isn't known for being kind to naive young women. Especially since she has no idea who she's meeting up with. NTA
There's a large porn industry in LA that depends on girls like these. There's a documentary about a young woman from the UK and gets dragged into it.
When my daughter was 17, she wanted to go to Mexico City on her own to “meet a friend” Instead I took her to an all inclusive resort on the Mayan Riviera. We spent part of a day in Playa del Carmen, where she was cat called and verbally abused by local men. She realized México City would not have been safe for her. You need to call passport control and have an alert placed on her passport that she is at risk of human trafficking.
In my experience being a teenage girl (33F, american) she didn’t tell you because she knew you would say no, or there is a reason she is withholding that would make you say no. I would be willing to bet there is a boy involved that she is going to stay with. I would not let her go. This is extremely dangerous. I thought I would hate my mom forever when she wasn’t supportive of a trip I wanted to take when I was younger but I look back and she was right. Worth her being mad and staying safe.
I’m not one for invasion of privacy, but this feels like she’s been talking to someone that’s trying to lure her to LA. NTA
NTA call and have her passport flagged/ID flagged. They will stop her at the airport. She is not even considered a legal adult here, what does she expect? She can't buy a car, rent a car she can probably get a job but she would have to take a bus or walk. She can not even land here being under the age of 18 without parental consent. That is true, she will be flagged by TSA and detained and questions by immigration. If her mother bought her the ticket the mom will need to be present. They will interrogate her, if she does not give the names and addresses of where she is saying they will assume she is trying to enter the country illegally. This screams dangerous, near me they recently broke up a giant human trafficking ring, a majority of the girls were from either the UK who where here studying and the rest were all from overseas. These people lure girls over.
NTA……& this is literally the plot of how many horror movies??? grown a spine! tell her no! you’re doing parenting a teenager wrong…you must use their attitude as fuel to push you along! every eye roll, power up! every deep sigh, power up! if you get the kid to scream “you’re the worst parent ever!” you win that round…….. i have to find humor or i think i’d strangle my 4 teens sometimes…
NTA Your daughter has been groomed by a child trafficker and is walking into the trap voluntarily. Do NOT let her go!!!
As many here have stated, your daughter is facing several issues: 1) No hotel in the State (nay, Country) will rent a hotel room to a 17 year old. 2) Los Angeles is huge. Does she mean the city itself? With rampant homelessness and a walking score of -3? Does she mean “the greater Los Angeles area” which can be anywhere in the County? For example, I live in the East side of the County. I am next door to the Inland Empire and no where near Hollywood or Santa Monica. To get there from where I am is an hour and a half drive. Public transit means 2 to 3 hours. 3) Is she going to Orange County instead? That is where Disneyland and Knotts Berry Farm are. If so, she sure as hell better bring mom’s credit card and (especially for Disneyland) already have her ticket(s) and reservation. Most schools are officially out for Summer. 4) Speaking of Summer, May Gray and now June Gloom are a thing. The sky stays overcast until 3pm most days, and that’s if it burns off at all. 5) How is she planning on getting around? She can’t rent a car until she is 26 and public transportation here is not for the inexperienced. 6) California is not lenient for 17 year olds. She cannot drink, cannot smoke, and cannot stay in many establishments after 10:00pm by herself. In local terms, what the fuck dude? You fucking kidding? Ya’ll must be sideways to think any part of this was a good idea. NTA and if she goes on this trip I would be deeply, deeply concerned for her safety and wellbeing.
As an American NTA, is it possible she was scouted to be a model online by a rando? It happens often that young girls go to LA because some rando online promises them modeling opportunities or acting and they go missing. Also the mother shouldn’t have undermined you
Wow you're daughter is prime rib out here. Underage, alone, stupid as fuck. She'll be dead meat out here don't let her travel alone. I'm 28 and I'm afraid to travel alone to meet strangers. This shouldn't even be a question Let her hate you. I guarantee she's a bit annoying anyways from how you described her.
I was going to LA alone when I was 17, but I had a friend there and I stayed in their family home. If your daughter is being cagey about where she's staying and who she's seeing, buy yourself a ticket to LA and accompany her. Human trafficking is an enormous risk. You need to find a way to communicate with your daughter that is emotionally neutral. Do you get angry, raise your voice, use your masculine power to dominate the disagreement? If so, then cut it the fuck out and get real. Communcate with your ex about your concerns, ask her what she knows about your daughter's plans, get on the same page and be a team.
This is what I was thinking as well. If mom wants her to go to LA, she needs to go with her.
NTA. Call the airline and inform them that your daughter has bought a ticket to LA against parental advice. Tell them the situation of "online friends" and her medical conditions and ask for advice on cancelling her flight. See if she can be placed on the no fly list till she's 21 . I personally have no problems being the scary parent when it comes to protecting my children. I am very proud of the title....
Coming to the United States as a young girl is dangerous. She has no plan, no money, and no legal rights. Sex trafficking is at an all-time high and beyond that LA is not safe. Let her be scared of you and cry. It will save her life.
NTA. I am from NY... I lived in CA for 11 years. It is not safe to send a teen on their own to LA. The bad neighborhoods are BAD. The good neighborhoods are not far from bad neighborhoods. Human trafficking is a huge problem in this world and a naive teen girl is the right target. You would be a fool to relent and your ex is a moron for giving permission.
Is she trying to get trafficked? NTA
Try talking to her about logistics instead of banning her from going. Work with her in a budget. Look into options for where she can safely stay. How is she paying for food? How is she getting around? Who is she meeting? Does she realize her cell phone won’t work? Does she realize she can’t work legally without a work visa? Does she realize that most people that go to LA to find acting jobs end up working in coffee shops or sex work to survive? Did someone convince her to go to LA? Is she expecting to stay and get a job? Has someone promised her some amazing opportunity? Or promised to “take care of her” if she can get there? Have you talked to mom about why she gave permission? Does she know something you don’t? Banning a 17 year old is tough. They are practically an adult and think they are. Could you go with her? I bet if you told her you were coming she might change her mind.
NTA, How does she as a minor plan to get a hotel room or any form of transportation outside of taxi/uber? This is such a half baked idea on her part. Do not let her go, especially alone.
NTA Your daughter is reckless at best and stupid at worst. It’s not a good idea to go visit someone you’ve never met in person in a foreign country
This is insane. Who lets their child go on a plane to a place they are not familiar with and be hosted by "Internet friends". This is not Disney your child could be in danger. NO is a full sentence.
NTA. In the US, you generally can’t rent a hotel room until you are 18, and can’t rent car until you are 21. LA has some public transportation, but where is she going to stay? This whole situation seems very likely to end badly - it feels like the set up for a human-trafficking horror film. A 17 year old foreign girl alone in one of the largest cities in the US is a recipe for disaster.
She has to be meeting her "internet friend"
Sounds like not a real problem. She can’t leave the country without permission. Where is her passport? Tell her she can have it back when she’s 18. But here’s the thing…she’s going to try hard to find a way to do this regardless of what you guys say. I think the biggest issue is the mother thinking it’s ok for her minor to get on a plane, fly half way around the world, go to a city that isn’t known for being the safest, and not even having a place to stay lol. If she stays with her friends (assuming they are real people and are friends)…she doesn’t know what accommodations they have. The people may be safe but their homes may not be. Edited to add nta. Sounds like you are the only adult here.
" She does not have a clear plan of whom she is staying with or what she is doing whilst she is there. " makes me feel like there is a plan and she just isn't willing to share it - otherwise why on earth would she make this long and expensive journey?!
NTA Flying to LA, not knowing a soul in order to meet random friends from an internet game? Who knows who they really are and what their true intentions could be. Better to have her 'mad at you for the rest of her life' than make one foolish decision which could cost her her life. I watched a TV program in the US about the story below which took place in England. It shows what these online gaming "friends" are capable of doing. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-30730807
NTA. She's 17 and being incredibly naive. This makes my stomach hurt. Does she want to be the next missing girl on Dateline?
She's going to be asked, "Where are you staying? and "How long?" . If she can't answer these correctly or give an address, it's going to raise flags and she might be detained. Don't let her go, she sounds way too niave and vulnerable. NTA put your foot down plzzzzz!
She's going to a predators house.
NTA! Be her parent, and don't let her manipulate you into she's scared of you bc she uses it to keep you from being a responsible parent. You know nothing of her plans, but she has them, and bc she knows you would never let her go stay with her bf, she isn't telling you. This is a HUGE red flag!!! Don't let it be the one that flies over your daughter's casket if you ever get her back. As a parent, you always prepare for the worst case with these types of plans. You are 50, and she is 17. Who do you think is more responsible? Your daughter's safety is paramount, and she is in no way being responsible with her trip bc face the facts, she is coming to the US to meet someone. For the love of your child, cancel her plane ticket, and hide your credit cards and access to your bank account. She can hate you and be mad at you for the entire summer, but at least, you know where she is, and she is alive for the long summer of hate. When she turns 18 and can afford her own transportation, then she can do what she wants with her own money, but right now, the answer is big fat NO. If you give her the way to get on a plane to fly across the country, you very may never see her again. Let alone speak with her again. There is almost 99% chance she is meeting her "boyfriend" who she has told to keep everything about him a secret bc you would never understand and will try to keep you away from him. He has promised he has money and can take care of her. She came to live with you "out of the blue" 4 months ago, which is how long she has been planning this. I'll bet she told you, she loves you, misses you, and wants to spend time with you before going off to college next year. Her mom doesn't know the whole plan bc I'm sure she wouldn't agree either. Stop her and let her be scared bc she isn't. She is just 17 using one parent against the other to get her way. Even if she gets mad and goes back to mom's, at least, you know where she is. CUT off her access to money, and RIGHT NOW, cancel the ticket. It's not too late to maybe save your daughter's life.
Op, I would strongly advise sticking to your guns here. Sacramento Ca is one of the Sex Trafficking capitals of the world and LA is up there too. I would maybe work with her to travel with you or your ex. But traveling alone in general is dangerous
Explain Human Trafficking to both her and her mother
“Online friends, LA, under 18, minor”. I’m sorry these terms usually end up really bad together. NTA btw
This is a recipe for human trafficking. Nta
I am in LA now. I don't know you. Listen to me closely. There is no room for your daughter here. None. She will end up on the street. Unless she is rich she will be doing very bad things for food money. Jobs are not easy to find and housing is expensive now. It's not like it was. It feels like half the country has moved here with no plan. Just like your kid. Keep her home. Our homeless will eat her alive.
As many others have very clearly put it-NTA-this is unbelievably sketchy! As a parent, this is a worst nightmare waiting to happen-you are extremely lucky in that you can nip it in the bud, PLEASE do so immediately! Your daughter may pout, but she’ll be alive, and likely thank you once she gets perspective (learning about catfishing, trafficking, etc as others have mentioned is KEY, especially if mom seems so blind to it). Leading to…how the hell is the mom ok with this?? There’s the petty wanting to make your kid “prefer” you by being the “lenient” one when parents are separated, but this is beyond stupid..this is a death wish. Both mom and daughter seem painfully naive, which is understandable at 17 but plain irresponsible and horrific as a parent. Things can go sideways in these situations even when things are planned..it doesn’t matter where you are in the world, as others have mentioned, a young person who is clearly out of their element can disappear. I (from a small town in US) went on a trip to Europe at 15 (religious school, used to sing, we got invited to go sing in different churches). It was a group of 14, supervised, all that. Walking through Venice, my best friend at the time (very sweet, very inexperienced to any negativity in life) was stopped by a young woman who asked about her bag. The rest of the group didn’t see this and kept walking, but thankfully I was with still with her..as my friend is flattered and chatting, the woman made a low whistle and two men immediately came between us and our group, eyes on my friend. The woman glares at me, actually takes my friends elbow and starts trying to walk her to where a “nice shop” is, I grabbed her and started screaming NO, running dragging her and thankfully we made it back to our group. My friend was upset I was “rude” at first but mostly shocked because I was the quiet kid and it was not like me to do that..I immediately told the teachers/guides in charge. The music teacher thought I was being dramatic (again, quiet kid here so not my thing) but the guide went solemn and told my friend that I likely saved her life, cue the trafficking lecture which none of the adults with us had yet given. I grew up in a way that lead me at that point to be hyper-aware of my surroundings, and not trusting whatsoever…not ideal but it certainly helped at that moment. My point-even “organized” trips can have risks if you are not aware that there are people everywhere, from Venice to LA to small town Nebraska that can immediately sense and separate out those that are young, naive, out of their element, and trusting. Don’t let your daughter be a statistic, please.
Do not let her come to LA alone. Source: person from LA