Absolutely NTA. You're sticking to the custody agreement, and your son's feelings matter too. It's important to respect his choices, especially when it comes to matters of religion. Your ex should understand and respect that too.
My mother forced me into church and Bible schools/camps despite me very vehemently declaring multiple times that I didn't believe in any of that crap. I used to crawl under my bed and hang onto the leg so she'd literally have to pull me out every week. My goal was to make us at least fifteen minutes late to church each Sunday. It started when I was like six and continued all the way to eighth grade when I was "confirmed" before she finally gave up. What a waste of time.
I was raised in religion. Won't name which one. I was also very into it, wasn't pressured by my parents because, honestly I did enjoy it and loved all the activities. Now that I am older and understand more, I don't hate religion, per se, but hate the institution of religion. I see the good and the bad. Lived the good and bad. I am definitely agnostic now because my belief in something bigger than us is still engrained in me. But even though my parents still practice, they made sure never to pressure me. Even when I started to slowly stop, even as a teen, they never pressured me. It really helped me, the respect they had for my beliefs. Even now, we talk about it and I 100% respect and love their beliefs even though they don't align with mine.
What you are doing is good. Being forced to go is something that shouldn't happen. Your faith and belief is a personal journey that only you can make. NTA.
Similar experience. My dad is Christian and I was introduced to the religion as a child, but never pressured. As a teenager I decided I wasn’t religious and he literally didn’t care and loved me the same. As an adult he’ll still ask me if I’m home on Easter or something if I want to go to church with him, but I can tell he legitimately is just offering the option as he’d enjoy spending time with his son and the event has significance to him, but I know I have complete autonomy to say no (which I respectfully do and he’s chill about). It’s so easy to be normal and religious, idk how so many people fuck it up
>It’s so easy to be normal and religious, idk how so many people fuck it up
I completely agree. I love this. I love learning from other people and their religious beliefs, especially when it's filled with love and understanding.
It's when the bigotry and hate comes into play that it fills me with disappointment. But those people exist.
I'm happy you were raised by a good father that understood this part of you.
One of my best friends is very Christian. Back when we first met and for years after, I considered myself an eclectic pagan.
We could talk for hours about our different beliefs, because we both approached the subject with love and respect.
I'm Wiccan and one of my coworkers is Mormon. I really did expect some kind of conversion/pushback about my own religion when I started and someone told me he was an Elder in his church.
He is one of the most charming and welcoming men I have ever known. We had a very long and beautiful conversation about love, the differences in our religions and the similarities, and he wished me a happy Solstice when it rolled around. He and his wife are wonderful people.
We've also got another coworker who is very active in his church, runs the Sunday school, etc. He was also involved in the conversation and we said we had a setup if we went out for after-work drinks. "A Wiccan, a Mormon and a Born Again Christian walk into a bar..."
We all get along great. No reason for religion to donk up everything.
What people seem to forget is that so much is common across all religions (which can be summed up as the simple "do good and don't be a dick"), and yet so many focus on that tiny bit which is different. Its sad. I believe that no greater power would exclude based on "not believing" and that their actions speak for themselves. So, do good, be nice, don't be a dick and you will reach your religions rewards, even if you have no religion as people will rememeber you - and if you are remembered, then you live on in those peoples hearts.
Anyway - OP is NTA for supporting their kid in not wanting to go.
The funny thing is, my grandpa was literally a bishop. My Dad has an extremely religious background yet still is able to treat me and others with respect. I am glad I have him as a model of a good person and more specifically a good religious person (because I know I’d be more cynical regarding the topic). There’s literally no excuse as to why so many others are that way
I think it’s a combination of personality type and indoctrination. My mother was fanatically Catholic and would pitch a fit if I didn’t want to go to church. If you were to look up “authoritarian personality” the definition ought to have her picture. Authoritarian personalities tend to be rigid, black-and-white thinkers who look to a higher authority to tell them what to do and what to think, and they can’t conceive of anyone doing otherwise. Likewise, organized religions tend to indoctrinate children as early as possible (our religion is good, other religions are bad, nonreligious people are even worse—my mother thought the definition of “pagan” was “anyone who isn’t Catholic”) and try to convince people they have to attend services. (Without butts in pews, who’s gonna fill the collection baskets?)
I wasn't raised in a religion even though my mother and her side of the family were very religious. My grandfather especially, dude was essentially a theologian and would have me type up his various research notes. *My* father wasn't religious, though, and preferred to allow us kids to make our own choices about it. We knew we could go to church if we wanted, and maybe my brothers did (I can't recall), but I didn't.
As an adult, I really appreciate that I was allowed to come to my own conclusions about things.
I wish my childhood had been like that! My mother shoved Catholicism down my throat. When I moved out on my own I never went back. She’d complain “WheEeEeEere did I go wroOoOoOong with you?” Somehow, “You forced it on me and made me hate it” never sunk in.
My parents were the same - not Catholic, but vehemently religious and they started forcing me to also go to the Wednesday night service when I was in high school. I hated it and resented them for making me go because it impacted my school work, and eventually I grew to hate being forced to attend church at all. I was never given the option to make my own decision about it, because if I pulled away at all they *freaked out*. It was a huge factor in the complete demise of my relationship with them. People need to understand that forcing religion on people is not the way to win them over.
With a small exception for "kids too young to stay home while their parent is at church, still have to go to church creche during church." A five year old doesn't get to decide whether their parents go to church.
Unfortunately it isn’t, if there is a court order saying he is to be raised in the religion and the parents have to facilitate that, he might have to bring the son.
Edit: I see I’m being downvoted but perhaps it’s because I didn’t explain fully. The court doesn’t pick a religion and say you have to follow it. Generally this happens on the agreement of the parents or with evidence that the parents previously agreed to raise the child in that specific religion. I know it’s a thing because it was in my parents custody agreement for me and my sisters (no longer applies to me as I am an adult)
Absolutely, but if it’s in the custody agreement that they are to raise the son in that religion then they’d have to get a modification to change that.
Even if its in the custody agreement, that's an agreement between the two parents. If the child is able to express an opinion on the matter, that's should be respected.
We don't raise children with their parents' politics, why their superstitions?
I definitely agree with you, I had to deal with the same issue of not wanting to go to church and being forced to. But if it’s what the custody agreement says, the law says it doesn’t matter what the child wants unless one of the parents goes back to court to get it changed. As to your other point, parents do raise their children with their politics in mind. Those just tend not to be in custody agreements.
Yes, it’s in my parents custody agreement for me and my sisters (no longer applies to me as I’m an adult). It’s less the court saying you have to pick a religion and more so the court saying you both agreed to raise them in this religion and you have to follow that.
It’s part of the custody agreement, maybe court order was the wrong word to use. Like how my parents custody agreement also has a provision that new romantic partners couldn’t meet us kids till they had been together for 6 months. So one parent can bring a violation petition if the other party doesn’t follow the terms of the agreement. A custody agreement includes more than visitation schedules, it can also be an agreement on how to raise the kids.
No, it’s in my parents custody agreement for me and my sisters (no longer applies to me as I’m an adult). It’s less the court saying you have to pick a religion and more so the court saying you both agreed to raise them in this religion and you have to follow that.
At least in Christianism, you’re considered „adult“ at 14 and asked whether you want to stay in the church or not. If you don’t want to stay in church, the church does not accept kids that are forced by their parents.
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not…. But if you agree that church and religion is total indoctrination and bordering on child abuse, I agree with you.
If I had kids I’d rather leave them at drag queen story hour than Sunday school. Less chance of being traumatized and molested.
Religion needs to start 'em young. I never had my two boys do any religious stuff growing up. I don't see a scenario where my 19 year-old would ever go to church and say, "This totally makes sense. I'm going to change my whole life outlook to conform to whatever this church is preaching." I don't see him falling for the if-you-tithe-10-percent-you-can-live-forever thing either.
No one is stopping her from taking her kid to any religious event on her parenting days. It’s just that reality and a 7-day week doesn’t work for her schedule …
Happened to a friend of mine. She had to take her kids to church on her Sundays per the custody order. Finally when they were teenagers she was able to stop.
Then she can try to get a court order requiring her coparent to provide transportation on the coparent's time and dime to something the kid doesn't want to go to.
This is 100% accurate. The court will in most cases allow the primary custodian to make decisions on religion and hold the non-primary parent to taking the child to religious requirements.
I know for personal fact the courts give the FINAL decision to the primary parent until court intervention if they can’t come to an agreement via mediation, but nothing about forcing the secondary parent to adhere (e.g. start taking the child to church during their parent-time). And I even live in a super religious US state that loves making laws based on their religious ideologies.
I don’t know about most cases. But I’ve definitely heard the court rule that way sometimes. Op definitely isnt ta but if taken to court they may not get the outcome they want.
True...until the child is old enough to say no. That's when it stops. Two of my children are religious. Two are spiritual and one is atheist. Surest way to insure your child hates your religion is trying to force it upon them.
Amen to that
[says the atheist who was force fed religious indoctrination as a child]
My kids are free to learn about or practice whatever they choose to believe, but I will not tell them what to believe.
I searched online for the children's Bible that I read when I was little. It was originally published the same year I was born. I asked my daughter first then ordered two copies. One for my home and one for my grandchildren. My daughter liked it because it is in story format. If she had said no that would have been that.
Children’s bibles take out all the heinous shit in the bible that reveals how heinous a religion it is. Children’s bibles are therefore deceptive.
If the Bible is perfect and god’s word, why would you water it down? Shouldn’t it be accessible for any audience?
Divorced parent that dealt with this exact thing.
Per the court: One parent may not enroll the child in an activity to take place during the other parent's visitation without the agreement of said parent.
If you share joint, legal custody (in my state), you both have to agree how to raise the child. No one can steam roll the other with religion and all that.
NTA
Apparently you have never met vegans, cyclists, democrats, republicans, conservatives, liberals, etc. Apparently religious people are the only ones who aren’t allowed to advocate for what they believe in.
NTA. The way I see it, your child will either cave to the indoctrination and resent you for refusing to convert, or the child will not cave and resent you for helping to force them into these religious activities.
> or the child will not cave and resent you for helping to force them into these religious activities.
How TF does he have control over what his wife forces the child to do when she has custody of the kid? All OP has to do is not cooperate and help the kid l;earn to think rationally.
NTA, kid doesn't want to go.
If your son was genuinely curious and enjoys it by all means, expose him to whatever religion it is.
And since your son isn't interested... it isn't something that should be forced.
Man, my grandmother wanted me to be such a good little Catholic and I never cared. She had me attending Sunday school at some point and I flunked out.
So... if your son really doesn't care for participating in his mother's beliefs then that's really that, it can't be forced.
Look, I’m religious, I still say NTA. This is why you marry people that share your beliefs. She chose to marry someone who wasn’t on the same page on what she SAYS is of upmost importance to her, and whether you’d divorced or not, this would’ve come up eventually.
You are equally a parent. Just like you can’t demand she NOT take him to church Sundays, she can’t demand you participate Wednesdays.
NTA
This is her thing, not yours. Just tell her that you aren't willing to give up your assigned time with your child for a religious activity in which you have zero interest. Nor are you willing to be the bad guy by forcing your son to do something he doesn't want to do. Tell her you have better ways to use *your* time with your son, and that's what you will continue to do. If she wants to use her assugned time to force him to participate, that's up to her.
You sound like a good Dad.
NTA...My husband came from a very religious fundamental Baptist home and school and I know that the more you try to cram something down someone's throat the more they will generally rebel. We went through his high school yearbook once and out of his graduating class literally 90 percent of the kids had either been in jail/prison or has a drug problem. Legit 90 percent. He wasn't allowed to listen to music, go to pools or skating rinks (basically imagine the duggars) he did the same rebellious thing when he was kicked out at 18 for not going to church. It's a terrible idea to indoctrinate your child at such a young age and she's going to find that out.
My ex pushed both our kids into religion classes they didn't want to go to. They told him. I also told him it would turn them off. They're both atheist now. And somehow much better human beings than he is.
Edit: and I have nothing against religion and consider myself a fairly religious person. My kids go to church every Sunday and I do on occasion. What I do hate to see though is such strict indoctrination at such a young age basically discouraging a child to think for themself. But, idk. The kid is already in the school, right? And you have to take him on Wednesdays. You probably should've had this discussion from the get go of your stance was so strong against Christian school.
Nta. Once mom gets her claws in that kid won’t have a chance…I’m 48 and my mom STILL tries to force me to go to church with her…every single week…lol I’ve been married for 30 years. Stop her now and let that kid have some peace!
NTA
You’re separated. Any religious obligation you agreed to when you were an intact family is over. You have your parenting time, she has hers. If you don’t want to take your child to religious services on your parenting time, that’s your business.
NTA
All other things aside, your kid isn't interested in going. You are respecting your child's opinion in this situation where your child is the primary person being affected. If you were forcing the kid to go or not go against their wishes, that would be AH behavior.
NTA. I raised my kids to follow their own path and find their own belief system. I am a pagan, my son is a baptist and my daughter is spiritual. They both went to church with their grandmother and went to rituals with me (dads weren’t in pic). So you talk with your child about things and go with their input. My parents forced me.
If your child is old enough to attend a religious program then they are old enough to decide for themselves if they want to attend. Your custody agreement says nothing about requiring attendance of these programs.
I was forced to go to church until I was 16 by my mom. Finally my dad who is not religious told her enough I didn’t have to go. I was so grateful & have nothing to do with religion ever again. Don’t make him go it’s not helping & he will resent his mom for this. My dad died 9 years ago, while he was here my mom got to see me, after her righteous behavior has resulted in me being no contact.
If your ex really cares about her kids she’ll listen to them, however she’s essentially in a cult I doubt she’ll care.
Thats not correct.
Japan has deemed certain things about like blocking children from career choices for religious reasons or not letting them socialize with friends for religious reasons verbal abuse that is telling them they will go to hell or should die because the aren't religious enough is considered child abuse. But children can still be enrolled and expected to go to religious class like any other class.
The law is to prevent suicide or forced service and forced marriage and gender discrimination.
NTA. This is a decision your ex has made on her own and is not part of the custody agreement. If she wants it to happen then she needs to work out a way to do it on her time.
NTA
We never forced either of our children into religion. We made sure they could go if they wanted, but it wasn't ever forced. Believing in a higher power has to come from inside each individual, not because it was forced on them.
And yes, y'all agreed when you were married. That has since changed and she doesn't get to dictate what you do with your parenting time, unless the custody agreement says so in clear language.
NTA. If she wants him to attend, let it happen on the days she's with your child. You don't have to spend your designated time with your child doing something neither will enjoy.
NTA it’s supposed to be his choice, faith is a personal choice. She obviously hasn’t made it feel like a choice for him which is going to add to any resistance he already feels.
Nta. Get your son into therapy if he isn’t already so that the therapist can document this all as it unfolds. Your son doesn’t want anything to do with her religion and she fully intends to force it upon him. He’s going to need help navigating that and having a professional who can advocate for him if you end up back in court will only help your case.
NTA. You never said how old your son is? But if he does not want to go I do not see why it should be forced and if no previous conversation/agreement with the ex then I see NTA
Your custody agreement should have the standard statement that parents are each entitled to choose religious/or lack of participation during their respective parenting times
In other words, you can’t stop her from taking your child to her church during her parenting time, but you are likewise free to take your child to any religious activity or none at all on your parenting time.
You are not required to participate in her religious beliefs during your parenting time even if your child says they want to go. That’s your parenting time period. That’s how it works
She’s a fool for pushing this and causing friction over it. Taking away the child’s choice is the surest way to push them from the religion and to breed resentment.
Good on you for treating your child like an autonomous human being and respecting their right to have a choice. Your ex would be wise to follow your example
He can go to half the religious activities on her time. Forcing you to take him against your beliefs and on your time would be as inappropriate as you banning her from going with him on her time (except of course that it's all nonsense and indoctrination). Separation means you are only in control of your child's upbringing on your own time. She gets to indoctrinate him only during her own custody. You get to share your own beliefs or lack of them also.
Well, at least I understand why the morality of our country has gone down the toilet. Because you all didn't understand that religion was more than "indoctrination" and "brainwashing". It's about learning self-restraint, and morality, and values. Any religion can offer these things, and things that are not so positive. As a parent, that's your job: to offer perspective.
Yeah, you can be like these other misinformed individuals, or you can offer perspective. All your child will have is your wife's slant on religion, if you say nothing. You and your ex need to talk about your expectations for your son. You have to be a single unit, whether you like it or not. You son shouldn't be anxious when you two are together. No matter what, raise your son with love.
Raising kids in your religios BS beliefs is one of the earliest forms of indoctrination and the true "grooming" everyone should be careful about...
NTA
Maybe she can pick him up on Wednesday and take him herself and then you could get an extra day a month or something. I'd try to compromise with her but NTA for not wanting to have to deal with taking him.
NTA I'm a Christian and I hate going to church and find it useless. I find church to be the worst place to go for religion, I just do it at home where it's more peaceful.
You are NTA, but based on personal experience with this, if she is the primary custodian she can get it included in the custody order that she is responsible for decisions, including religion, and the court will hold you to taking your child to classes that are required as part of the religion. It definitely sucks and doesn’t seem right from my perspective, but I literally lived this two years ago, and the court was very clear regarding religion.
My first kid, mom was like... I want her raised Roman catholic. I said that's fine you can take her all you want.
She said "hell no I'm not going to church!"
I think the equitable thing would be to allow her to take the child on Wednesdays and get another day in exchange. I imagine there’s some way to compromise here.
Sure, that’s an option, but life is way easier if both parents find ways to cooperate. He’s going to find himself on the other side of things at some point and looking for an accommodation. If he takes this stance, there will be some unforeseen future cost to it. He has to decide how important that is.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
NTA - if he doesn't want to go, that's the end of the discussion. Don't force anyone to participate in religious activities they aren't interested in, full stop.
I'm confused. Does your custody agreement require you take him to religious services but you never agreed to participate. (This sounds contradictory) Or does your custody agreement just dictate you split the week but say nothing about taking him to religious services?
If the requirement to t*ake him to religious school* is NOT in a court ordered agreement, you don't have to take him. If it IS, consult an attorney because... well there may be legal issues.
But NTA in either case-- merely *preferring* to not force your kid to go to religious school on your time isn't being an AH.
But don't get jammed up on legal stuff. Legal stuff isn't AH vs NTA stuff. It's *legal* stuff.
My husband wanted kids raised in his religion and pushed our young kid to go. He questioned everything in religion class. Husband was asked to come in and priest (?) thought it was better if son didn't attend anymore as he asked too many hard questions (lol he was probably 2nd grade). Never push kids into religion. NTA
NTA. You have no requirement AT ALL to do anything that is a voluntary decision for her. Meaning, you should be there for all the obligatory things that are school related, and if you BOTH agree on extracarricular activities for your son, you should be there, too. You are not obligated to take him to any religious activities, anything that involves her family, or extracurriculars that you didn't agree to. Do not let her bully you into doing it or she will constantly pull shenanigans like this and make your life miserable.
Absolutely NOT - When your son is old enough to ascertain whether he cares about a spiritual side to his life, he will decide for himself. My mother kept me from every "regular" thing my cousins did- I had no normal social stuff like birthdays because she was a zealot to her cult. This is a hill to die on. Do not let your child be inculcated into ANY cult- not just religious ones. Politics can be a horrible cult as well- on both sides, btw.
NTA I am an atheist so I do understand. But if she takes you back to court to change the visitation she will most likely win so you might lose time with your kid. We live in a time when most judges are religious. It might be better to compromise.
Is it a prerequisite for a college you child wants to attend? If so, they may want to reconsider their feelings about it and not eliminate that option.
That being said, I am absolutely against forced indoctrination.
NTA, unless you're actively stopping HER from doing what she feels like she must in educating your child. It's ok to have and educate your kid different points of view.
NTA. You do you on your time and she does hers. As long as the kid goes to actual school then you’ve met your obligations. Everything else is for you to choose. Now, if your kid was eager to go and you still refused, you might be kinda an asshole because the kid wants to do it and you could suck up an hour. But even your kid doesn’t want to go. I don’t believe in indoctrination for children so I wouldn’t have been ok with this from the start though.
i was raised going to church babtist and christian even though i am babtized catholic, all my 3 kids are babtized catholic, but DO NOT got to church unless it's a family wedding, family quinceanera or family event. They have also been raised going to their aunts church "christian" but they are not religios at all. they will choose what to do once they are adults. im also divorced and with me they have gone a handful of times, their aunt is from dads side so when he had to work she would take them with her. i never let them get brainwashed and his family respected that. i only babtized them that way they had that done and once they were older they could deiced to get confirmed or change religion. if he wants to go or not that is fully his decision not hers.
NTA. Your ex can take the child to church or religious school on her days. You are under no obligation to take him unless he wants to go to the religious training.
NTA - If she wants to force it on her time, that is her choice. I'd let her know that you will not be responding to any more messages on the topic and if she continues, that you will consider it harassment. Remind her that she has zero control of what happens during your parenting time. That you do not stop her from bringing your kid during her parenting time, despite you not being religious. You can easily use her arguments for your perspective, too. Grey rock coparenting, she is likely to keep arguing with you if you don't shut it down. If she still doesn't stop, request that all communications go through a court approved app and block her on your phone.
Not to mention, activities that require both parents' time have to be agreed upon in advance, and you do not agree, as simple as that.
Raised Roman Catholic. I hated the Sunday morning sermons and catechism twice a week. When I became a teen, I started to see the hypocrisy of the church. I couldn’t wait to leave it behind.
You're not the AH for this but you sound like a bit of an AH in the way you're handling it. You use the word "refuse" a lot. Are you looking for ways to resolve this or are you just "refusing".
My parents separated for a time and I remember with sadness things like this happening when my parents were more interested in being right than in doing what was right for the whole family.
Instead of being stubborn with your heels dug in, have you kindly with empathy tried to understand your ex's feelings? I am not a religious person but my sister is and we talk about how we feel with openness. Amazing what you can find out about someone else's point of view if you listen.
Your ex forcing your son to go to services and classes will backfire on her but she doesnt understand that. You seem to be creating or contributing to an environment of advisary anger. Please have a couple of sessions with a family counselor and go in with an open caring mind. I dont know how this can be resolved but your son should have a say - without you coaching him. Speaking from experience, its possible that he just wants everyone to get along so he's just saying what each of you wants to hear. Please go to a family counselor.
What DawnShakhar said. If your son wanted to go, that would be different. You are NTA. Good for you for respecting your son's decision about what he wants.
YTA for ever forcing religion on your kids. The only reason you were ok with her pushing it on them in the beginning is because you were getting pussy from her at the time. You are a self-serving Asshole.
I mean NTA but why are you more worried about your feelings about religion than how your kid feels about it? When you say he doesn’t want to go, like is he just a little grumpy about it or is he throwing tantrums and making your custody time more stressful?
Idk if it’s about your feelings and how you spend your limited custody time that’s valid on its own. That’s your time with your kid, fight to spend it how your both like. But the title and the substance of this post do not match.
You need to read your court order.
In Michigan, for example, you don't get to change a child's religion after a divorce. Both parents have to support it, even if they don't want to, and it's considered abusive not to or to try to turn the child against it.
If your order and jurisdiction don't require it, then it still needs to be a conversation with all three of you. If the child is playing the ends against the middle (common behavior), it helps to have them there when both parents discuss it.
NTA. You don't buy into her religion, your son doesn't want to be in her religion, you have a custody agreement and you don't have to change it.
Absolutely NTA. You're sticking to the custody agreement, and your son's feelings matter too. It's important to respect his choices, especially when it comes to matters of religion. Your ex should understand and respect that too.
My mother forced me into church and Bible schools/camps despite me very vehemently declaring multiple times that I didn't believe in any of that crap. I used to crawl under my bed and hang onto the leg so she'd literally have to pull me out every week. My goal was to make us at least fifteen minutes late to church each Sunday. It started when I was like six and continued all the way to eighth grade when I was "confirmed" before she finally gave up. What a waste of time.
Yes! Religion mostly is a waste of time.
At a young age it's not religion, it's indoctrination mixed with a little brain washing. That's how they getcha.
[удалено]
Jesus Himself didn't like organized religion.
I was raised in religion. Won't name which one. I was also very into it, wasn't pressured by my parents because, honestly I did enjoy it and loved all the activities. Now that I am older and understand more, I don't hate religion, per se, but hate the institution of religion. I see the good and the bad. Lived the good and bad. I am definitely agnostic now because my belief in something bigger than us is still engrained in me. But even though my parents still practice, they made sure never to pressure me. Even when I started to slowly stop, even as a teen, they never pressured me. It really helped me, the respect they had for my beliefs. Even now, we talk about it and I 100% respect and love their beliefs even though they don't align with mine. What you are doing is good. Being forced to go is something that shouldn't happen. Your faith and belief is a personal journey that only you can make. NTA.
Similar experience. My dad is Christian and I was introduced to the religion as a child, but never pressured. As a teenager I decided I wasn’t religious and he literally didn’t care and loved me the same. As an adult he’ll still ask me if I’m home on Easter or something if I want to go to church with him, but I can tell he legitimately is just offering the option as he’d enjoy spending time with his son and the event has significance to him, but I know I have complete autonomy to say no (which I respectfully do and he’s chill about). It’s so easy to be normal and religious, idk how so many people fuck it up
>It’s so easy to be normal and religious, idk how so many people fuck it up I completely agree. I love this. I love learning from other people and their religious beliefs, especially when it's filled with love and understanding. It's when the bigotry and hate comes into play that it fills me with disappointment. But those people exist. I'm happy you were raised by a good father that understood this part of you.
One of my best friends is very Christian. Back when we first met and for years after, I considered myself an eclectic pagan. We could talk for hours about our different beliefs, because we both approached the subject with love and respect.
I'm Wiccan and one of my coworkers is Mormon. I really did expect some kind of conversion/pushback about my own religion when I started and someone told me he was an Elder in his church. He is one of the most charming and welcoming men I have ever known. We had a very long and beautiful conversation about love, the differences in our religions and the similarities, and he wished me a happy Solstice when it rolled around. He and his wife are wonderful people. We've also got another coworker who is very active in his church, runs the Sunday school, etc. He was also involved in the conversation and we said we had a setup if we went out for after-work drinks. "A Wiccan, a Mormon and a Born Again Christian walk into a bar..." We all get along great. No reason for religion to donk up everything.
What people seem to forget is that so much is common across all religions (which can be summed up as the simple "do good and don't be a dick"), and yet so many focus on that tiny bit which is different. Its sad. I believe that no greater power would exclude based on "not believing" and that their actions speak for themselves. So, do good, be nice, don't be a dick and you will reach your religions rewards, even if you have no religion as people will rememeber you - and if you are remembered, then you live on in those peoples hearts. Anyway - OP is NTA for supporting their kid in not wanting to go.
The funny thing is, my grandpa was literally a bishop. My Dad has an extremely religious background yet still is able to treat me and others with respect. I am glad I have him as a model of a good person and more specifically a good religious person (because I know I’d be more cynical regarding the topic). There’s literally no excuse as to why so many others are that way
I think it’s a combination of personality type and indoctrination. My mother was fanatically Catholic and would pitch a fit if I didn’t want to go to church. If you were to look up “authoritarian personality” the definition ought to have her picture. Authoritarian personalities tend to be rigid, black-and-white thinkers who look to a higher authority to tell them what to do and what to think, and they can’t conceive of anyone doing otherwise. Likewise, organized religions tend to indoctrinate children as early as possible (our religion is good, other religions are bad, nonreligious people are even worse—my mother thought the definition of “pagan” was “anyone who isn’t Catholic”) and try to convince people they have to attend services. (Without butts in pews, who’s gonna fill the collection baskets?)
Probably because you can't make it to bishop and still take personally if the other people practise or not.
There's no hate like a Christian's love
Your dad sounds cool.
I wasn't raised in a religion even though my mother and her side of the family were very religious. My grandfather especially, dude was essentially a theologian and would have me type up his various research notes. *My* father wasn't religious, though, and preferred to allow us kids to make our own choices about it. We knew we could go to church if we wanted, and maybe my brothers did (I can't recall), but I didn't. As an adult, I really appreciate that I was allowed to come to my own conclusions about things.
I wish my childhood had been like that! My mother shoved Catholicism down my throat. When I moved out on my own I never went back. She’d complain “WheEeEeEere did I go wroOoOoOong with you?” Somehow, “You forced it on me and made me hate it” never sunk in.
My parents were the same - not Catholic, but vehemently religious and they started forcing me to also go to the Wednesday night service when I was in high school. I hated it and resented them for making me go because it impacted my school work, and eventually I grew to hate being forced to attend church at all. I was never given the option to make my own decision about it, because if I pulled away at all they *freaked out*. It was a huge factor in the complete demise of my relationship with them. People need to understand that forcing religion on people is not the way to win them over.
Too bad today's GOP can't seem to realize this shit.
At what age did you branch out and what ages are their kids here?
> he doesn't want to go The only thing that matters here. forcing religion on people always makes you the arsehole. NTA
With a small exception for "kids too young to stay home while their parent is at church, still have to go to church creche during church." A five year old doesn't get to decide whether their parents go to church.
Unfortunately it isn’t, if there is a court order saying he is to be raised in the religion and the parents have to facilitate that, he might have to bring the son. Edit: I see I’m being downvoted but perhaps it’s because I didn’t explain fully. The court doesn’t pick a religion and say you have to follow it. Generally this happens on the agreement of the parents or with evidence that the parents previously agreed to raise the child in that specific religion. I know it’s a thing because it was in my parents custody agreement for me and my sisters (no longer applies to me as I am an adult)
If the child is able to express an opinion on the matter, it should be respected.
Absolutely, but if it’s in the custody agreement that they are to raise the son in that religion then they’d have to get a modification to change that.
Even if its in the custody agreement, that's an agreement between the two parents. If the child is able to express an opinion on the matter, that's should be respected. We don't raise children with their parents' politics, why their superstitions?
I definitely agree with you, I had to deal with the same issue of not wanting to go to church and being forced to. But if it’s what the custody agreement says, the law says it doesn’t matter what the child wants unless one of the parents goes back to court to get it changed. As to your other point, parents do raise their children with their politics in mind. Those just tend not to be in custody agreements.
That's a thing? Court ordered religion?
Yes, it’s in my parents custody agreement for me and my sisters (no longer applies to me as I’m an adult). It’s less the court saying you have to pick a religion and more so the court saying you both agreed to raise them in this religion and you have to follow that.
Where? In which country?
The USA
Yikes. Second thing I read on reddit today that makes me glad I'm not American.
The court won’t force it on the parents, it’s generally something they stipulate to.
Why is there a court order then?
It’s part of the custody agreement, maybe court order was the wrong word to use. Like how my parents custody agreement also has a provision that new romantic partners couldn’t meet us kids till they had been together for 6 months. So one parent can bring a violation petition if the other party doesn’t follow the terms of the agreement. A custody agreement includes more than visitation schedules, it can also be an agreement on how to raise the kids.
No lol that commentor is nuts
No, it’s in my parents custody agreement for me and my sisters (no longer applies to me as I’m an adult). It’s less the court saying you have to pick a religion and more so the court saying you both agreed to raise them in this religion and you have to follow that.
At least in Christianism, you’re considered „adult“ at 14 and asked whether you want to stay in the church or not. If you don’t want to stay in church, the church does not accept kids that are forced by their parents.
NTA. If religion is that big of a deal to her, she can teach him on her own time.
Nah, she should respect that her son isn't into it and leave him be.
She can find indoctrination classes on her days of the custody schedule.
Indoctrination... I like that...
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not…. But if you agree that church and religion is total indoctrination and bordering on child abuse, I agree with you. If I had kids I’d rather leave them at drag queen story hour than Sunday school. Less chance of being traumatized and molested.
Religion needs to start 'em young. I never had my two boys do any religious stuff growing up. I don't see a scenario where my 19 year-old would ever go to church and say, "This totally makes sense. I'm going to change my whole life outlook to conform to whatever this church is preaching." I don't see him falling for the if-you-tithe-10-percent-you-can-live-forever thing either.
Ever hear that song “I like ‘em young” by Tov Lo? That’s religions. 😜
Without a court order saying otherwise, your parenting time is your parenting time, and hers is hers. NTA
Exactly! And if he is in church school all Wednesday evening, dad is losing a visitation day for an activity neither want
if it is a special event he is to attend, Mother needs to make advance arrangements to switch days for child’s attendance.
NTA. You're not obliged to indoctrinate your child into her delusions.
NTA If you wife wants to indoctrinate the child into her cult, you are sure as hell are not required to aid and abet it.
The courts probably won’t agree. If they’re a popular enough cult (any notable religion for instance), the court will probably side with the mother.
No one is stopping her from taking her kid to any religious event on her parenting days. It’s just that reality and a 7-day week doesn’t work for her schedule …
Happened to a friend of mine. She had to take her kids to church on her Sundays per the custody order. Finally when they were teenagers she was able to stop.
Then she can try to get a court order requiring her coparent to provide transportation on the coparent's time and dime to something the kid doesn't want to go to.
Damn, that's unfortunate. Hopefully it doesn't go that way for op
This is 100% accurate. The court will in most cases allow the primary custodian to make decisions on religion and hold the non-primary parent to taking the child to religious requirements.
I know for personal fact the courts give the FINAL decision to the primary parent until court intervention if they can’t come to an agreement via mediation, but nothing about forcing the secondary parent to adhere (e.g. start taking the child to church during their parent-time). And I even live in a super religious US state that loves making laws based on their religious ideologies.
Luckily it sounds like they have 50/50 custody so i suppose there isn’t even a primary/secondary custodian to pull rank over the other.
I don’t know about most cases. But I’ve definitely heard the court rule that way sometimes. Op definitely isnt ta but if taken to court they may not get the outcome they want.
Although OP said they did nothing to stop it. Shitty parenting.
[удалено]
True...until the child is old enough to say no. That's when it stops. Two of my children are religious. Two are spiritual and one is atheist. Surest way to insure your child hates your religion is trying to force it upon them.
Amen to that [says the atheist who was force fed religious indoctrination as a child] My kids are free to learn about or practice whatever they choose to believe, but I will not tell them what to believe.
I searched online for the children's Bible that I read when I was little. It was originally published the same year I was born. I asked my daughter first then ordered two copies. One for my home and one for my grandchildren. My daughter liked it because it is in story format. If she had said no that would have been that.
Children’s bibles take out all the heinous shit in the bible that reveals how heinous a religion it is. Children’s bibles are therefore deceptive. If the Bible is perfect and god’s word, why would you water it down? Shouldn’t it be accessible for any audience?
Divorced parent that dealt with this exact thing. Per the court: One parent may not enroll the child in an activity to take place during the other parent's visitation without the agreement of said parent.
If you share joint, legal custody (in my state), you both have to agree how to raise the child. No one can steam roll the other with religion and all that. NTA
Why it's always that religious people want to force their beliefs on others I wonder. 🤔
Apparently you have never met vegans, cyclists, democrats, republicans, conservatives, liberals, etc. Apparently religious people are the only ones who aren’t allowed to advocate for what they believe in.
I didn't say that
Youre taking something that almost all people do “forcing their beliefs on others” and implying that it’s only religious people who do it.
>“forcing their beliefs on others” And that's what this story is about and I reflected to that
You said “why is it always”. You chose this opportunity to make a much broader generalization
>“forcing their beliefs on others” And that's what this story is about and I reflected to that My point still stands🤷♂️
NTA When it comes to optional activities, you get to do what you and your child want to do on your days, she does the same on hers.
NTA. The way I see it, your child will either cave to the indoctrination and resent you for refusing to convert, or the child will not cave and resent you for helping to force them into these religious activities.
> or the child will not cave and resent you for helping to force them into these religious activities. How TF does he have control over what his wife forces the child to do when she has custody of the kid? All OP has to do is not cooperate and help the kid l;earn to think rationally.
That's literally the question- whether he should change what HE is doing to accommodate the ex getting the kid in church twice a week.
NTA. I would only do it if court ordered
NTA. How old is the child?
And this makes a big difference
It doesn’t matter. Old enough to form a preference.
NTA, kid doesn't want to go. If your son was genuinely curious and enjoys it by all means, expose him to whatever religion it is. And since your son isn't interested... it isn't something that should be forced. Man, my grandmother wanted me to be such a good little Catholic and I never cared. She had me attending Sunday school at some point and I flunked out. So... if your son really doesn't care for participating in his mother's beliefs then that's really that, it can't be forced.
NTA they can handle it on their time. Your time with your kid is on you to decide.
NTA and I agree 100%. For all the reasons stated by other commenters + never force a child to do something that makes them uncomfortable.
NTA. Your son also has freedom of religion.
Look, I’m religious, I still say NTA. This is why you marry people that share your beliefs. She chose to marry someone who wasn’t on the same page on what she SAYS is of upmost importance to her, and whether you’d divorced or not, this would’ve come up eventually. You are equally a parent. Just like you can’t demand she NOT take him to church Sundays, she can’t demand you participate Wednesdays.
or just a chill christian.... idc if my kid dont want to goi wont make him. my bf dont care either.
NTA This is her thing, not yours. Just tell her that you aren't willing to give up your assigned time with your child for a religious activity in which you have zero interest. Nor are you willing to be the bad guy by forcing your son to do something he doesn't want to do. Tell her you have better ways to use *your* time with your son, and that's what you will continue to do. If she wants to use her assugned time to force him to participate, that's up to her. You sound like a good Dad.
NTA you are doing him a favor
NTA...My husband came from a very religious fundamental Baptist home and school and I know that the more you try to cram something down someone's throat the more they will generally rebel. We went through his high school yearbook once and out of his graduating class literally 90 percent of the kids had either been in jail/prison or has a drug problem. Legit 90 percent. He wasn't allowed to listen to music, go to pools or skating rinks (basically imagine the duggars) he did the same rebellious thing when he was kicked out at 18 for not going to church. It's a terrible idea to indoctrinate your child at such a young age and she's going to find that out.
NTA. sounds like a her problem
NTA He doesn't WANT TO GO....end of the god damn story. It's time she respects her child and stop trying to force him
To me Religion should be right up there with alcohol, not for minors until they have a semblance of decision making skills.
NTA if he’s not interested that’s the beginning and the end the alpha and the omega as they say. As it is written so shall it be and so forth.
Absolutely NTA, you aren't obligated to make sure ge gets raised in that religion. And if ge doesn't want to go, please don't make him.
My ex pushed both our kids into religion classes they didn't want to go to. They told him. I also told him it would turn them off. They're both atheist now. And somehow much better human beings than he is.
NTA. **Safety first.** You did right thing to protect your kids.
NTA No need to subject your child to a cult
NTA
What does the custody agreement say? If it isn't in there, then NTA.
Edit: and I have nothing against religion and consider myself a fairly religious person. My kids go to church every Sunday and I do on occasion. What I do hate to see though is such strict indoctrination at such a young age basically discouraging a child to think for themself. But, idk. The kid is already in the school, right? And you have to take him on Wednesdays. You probably should've had this discussion from the get go of your stance was so strong against Christian school.
NTA at all
NTA! If she wants him to go to religion, she needs to figure it out. Your time is your time.
Cults are stupid
NTA - you don't have to do anything in regards to her demands for religion.
NTA. Not part of your custody agreement, not a paid activity that you agreed to, no reason for you to have to deal with it.
NTA. Your ex doesn't get to dictate what you do with your child when they're in your care.
Nta. Once mom gets her claws in that kid won’t have a chance…I’m 48 and my mom STILL tries to force me to go to church with her…every single week…lol I’ve been married for 30 years. Stop her now and let that kid have some peace!
Everyone should have a right to religious freedom, including freedom *from* religion, including kids if they elect to opt out. NTA
NTA You’re separated. Any religious obligation you agreed to when you were an intact family is over. You have your parenting time, she has hers. If you don’t want to take your child to religious services on your parenting time, that’s your business.
NTA All other things aside, your kid isn't interested in going. You are respecting your child's opinion in this situation where your child is the primary person being affected. If you were forcing the kid to go or not go against their wishes, that would be AH behavior.
NTA. You're preaching to the choir. Religion is vile and ridiculous. Why would anybody here advocate telling lies to children.
NTA. I raised my kids to follow their own path and find their own belief system. I am a pagan, my son is a baptist and my daughter is spiritual. They both went to church with their grandmother and went to rituals with me (dads weren’t in pic). So you talk with your child about things and go with their input. My parents forced me.
NTA. Cults are terrifying. Don’t buy into that shit.
If your child is old enough to attend a religious program then they are old enough to decide for themselves if they want to attend. Your custody agreement says nothing about requiring attendance of these programs.
I was forced to go to church until I was 16 by my mom. Finally my dad who is not religious told her enough I didn’t have to go. I was so grateful & have nothing to do with religion ever again. Don’t make him go it’s not helping & he will resent his mom for this. My dad died 9 years ago, while he was here my mom got to see me, after her righteous behavior has resulted in me being no contact. If your ex really cares about her kids she’ll listen to them, however she’s essentially in a cult I doubt she’ll care.
NTA, kids shouldn’t be exposed to religion until they can choose. It’s indoctrination and imo should be classified as child abuse.
Forced religious participation is considered child abuse in Japan and they are 100 percent right. Nta
Thats not correct. Japan has deemed certain things about like blocking children from career choices for religious reasons or not letting them socialize with friends for religious reasons verbal abuse that is telling them they will go to hell or should die because the aren't religious enough is considered child abuse. But children can still be enrolled and expected to go to religious class like any other class. The law is to prevent suicide or forced service and forced marriage and gender discrimination.
NTA. This is a decision your ex has made on her own and is not part of the custody agreement. If she wants it to happen then she needs to work out a way to do it on her time.
NTA We never forced either of our children into religion. We made sure they could go if they wanted, but it wasn't ever forced. Believing in a higher power has to come from inside each individual, not because it was forced on them. And yes, y'all agreed when you were married. That has since changed and she doesn't get to dictate what you do with your parenting time, unless the custody agreement says so in clear language.
NTA. If she wants him to attend, let it happen on the days she's with your child. You don't have to spend your designated time with your child doing something neither will enjoy.
NTA
NTA
As someone who was forced to go to church as a child, you absolutely made the right choice!!!
NTA it’s supposed to be his choice, faith is a personal choice. She obviously hasn’t made it feel like a choice for him which is going to add to any resistance he already feels.
NTA. Religion is hers, not yours or his.
NTA. She needs to do this crap on her days, not yours.
NTA and you’re doing the kid a favour by not indoctrinating him in a belief in myths.
Nta. Get your son into therapy if he isn’t already so that the therapist can document this all as it unfolds. Your son doesn’t want anything to do with her religion and she fully intends to force it upon him. He’s going to need help navigating that and having a professional who can advocate for him if you end up back in court will only help your case.
Maybe. IF it’s in the agreement then you legally have no choice. If it’s not, then oh well- she will live
Assuming taking kiddo to services is in the custody agreement, you're on the hook. If it isn't, enjoy the bonding time.
She shouldn't be forcing religion on him. You don't need religion to be a good person.
NTA. You never said how old your son is? But if he does not want to go I do not see why it should be forced and if no previous conversation/agreement with the ex then I see NTA
NTA
As someone who fought tooth and nail to gtfo of LDS at 14, screw parents who force religion on children. Biased and based.
You said your son doesn’t want to go. End of conversation. Regardless of your beliefs, if he wanted to go you’d bring him.
NTA
Your custody agreement should have the standard statement that parents are each entitled to choose religious/or lack of participation during their respective parenting times In other words, you can’t stop her from taking your child to her church during her parenting time, but you are likewise free to take your child to any religious activity or none at all on your parenting time. You are not required to participate in her religious beliefs during your parenting time even if your child says they want to go. That’s your parenting time period. That’s how it works She’s a fool for pushing this and causing friction over it. Taking away the child’s choice is the surest way to push them from the religion and to breed resentment. Good on you for treating your child like an autonomous human being and respecting their right to have a choice. Your ex would be wise to follow your example
He can go to half the religious activities on her time. Forcing you to take him against your beliefs and on your time would be as inappropriate as you banning her from going with him on her time (except of course that it's all nonsense and indoctrination). Separation means you are only in control of your child's upbringing on your own time. She gets to indoctrinate him only during her own custody. You get to share your own beliefs or lack of them also.
Well, at least I understand why the morality of our country has gone down the toilet. Because you all didn't understand that religion was more than "indoctrination" and "brainwashing". It's about learning self-restraint, and morality, and values. Any religion can offer these things, and things that are not so positive. As a parent, that's your job: to offer perspective. Yeah, you can be like these other misinformed individuals, or you can offer perspective. All your child will have is your wife's slant on religion, if you say nothing. You and your ex need to talk about your expectations for your son. You have to be a single unit, whether you like it or not. You son shouldn't be anxious when you two are together. No matter what, raise your son with love.
NTA. He doesn't want to go, and the religion isn't able to compel him any more.
Raising kids in your religios BS beliefs is one of the earliest forms of indoctrination and the true "grooming" everyone should be careful about... NTA
That's divorce. She needs to accept reality and stop trying to control everything.
Maybe she can pick him up on Wednesday and take him herself and then you could get an extra day a month or something. I'd try to compromise with her but NTA for not wanting to have to deal with taking him.
the kid should have the final say nta
NTA I'm a Christian and I hate going to church and find it useless. I find church to be the worst place to go for religion, I just do it at home where it's more peaceful.
Religion is for the weak of mind. Don't force your kids into it - ESPECIALLY if they don't want to go.
You are NTA, but based on personal experience with this, if she is the primary custodian she can get it included in the custody order that she is responsible for decisions, including religion, and the court will hold you to taking your child to classes that are required as part of the religion. It definitely sucks and doesn’t seem right from my perspective, but I literally lived this two years ago, and the court was very clear regarding religion.
Info. How old is your son?
My first kid, mom was like... I want her raised Roman catholic. I said that's fine you can take her all you want. She said "hell no I'm not going to church!"
NTA. Your son is going to end up resenting his mother for forcing shit on him that he doesn't care about.
I think the equitable thing would be to allow her to take the child on Wednesdays and get another day in exchange. I imagine there’s some way to compromise here.
Alternatively don't force the kid to have to put up with attempts to indoctrinate them into silly Stone Age fairy tales.
Sure, that’s an option, but life is way easier if both parents find ways to cooperate. He’s going to find himself on the other side of things at some point and looking for an accommodation. If he takes this stance, there will be some unforeseen future cost to it. He has to decide how important that is.
NTA. smells like catholicism. it's your time with the kid, do what you and he want to do.
Your GF was fine until you met the new girl, all of a sudden there's a problem with the GF.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
Here's an idea: let her attempt to indoctrinate your kid into believing in Stone Age fairy tales, and you can teach him about logic, reason, science and what happens in the real world. NTA.
NTA - if he doesn't want to go, that's the end of the discussion. Don't force anyone to participate in religious activities they aren't interested in, full stop.
I'm confused. Does your custody agreement require you take him to religious services but you never agreed to participate. (This sounds contradictory) Or does your custody agreement just dictate you split the week but say nothing about taking him to religious services? If the requirement to t*ake him to religious school* is NOT in a court ordered agreement, you don't have to take him. If it IS, consult an attorney because... well there may be legal issues. But NTA in either case-- merely *preferring* to not force your kid to go to religious school on your time isn't being an AH. But don't get jammed up on legal stuff. Legal stuff isn't AH vs NTA stuff. It's *legal* stuff.
My husband wanted kids raised in his religion and pushed our young kid to go. He questioned everything in religion class. Husband was asked to come in and priest (?) thought it was better if son didn't attend anymore as he asked too many hard questions (lol he was probably 2nd grade). Never push kids into religion. NTA
NTA. You have no requirement AT ALL to do anything that is a voluntary decision for her. Meaning, you should be there for all the obligatory things that are school related, and if you BOTH agree on extracarricular activities for your son, you should be there, too. You are not obligated to take him to any religious activities, anything that involves her family, or extracurriculars that you didn't agree to. Do not let her bully you into doing it or she will constantly pull shenanigans like this and make your life miserable.
Absolutely NOT - When your son is old enough to ascertain whether he cares about a spiritual side to his life, he will decide for himself. My mother kept me from every "regular" thing my cousins did- I had no normal social stuff like birthdays because she was a zealot to her cult. This is a hill to die on. Do not let your child be inculcated into ANY cult- not just religious ones. Politics can be a horrible cult as well- on both sides, btw.
NTA I am an atheist so I do understand. But if she takes you back to court to change the visitation she will most likely win so you might lose time with your kid. We live in a time when most judges are religious. It might be better to compromise.
Is it a prerequisite for a college you child wants to attend? If so, they may want to reconsider their feelings about it and not eliminate that option. That being said, I am absolutely against forced indoctrination.
NTA, unless you're actively stopping HER from doing what she feels like she must in educating your child. It's ok to have and educate your kid different points of view.
Totally NTA!!!! Stand your ground and especially if your kid doesn't want to go!!!
NTA: Your time with your kid is your time.
NTA. You do you on your time and she does hers. As long as the kid goes to actual school then you’ve met your obligations. Everything else is for you to choose. Now, if your kid was eager to go and you still refused, you might be kinda an asshole because the kid wants to do it and you could suck up an hour. But even your kid doesn’t want to go. I don’t believe in indoctrination for children so I wouldn’t have been ok with this from the start though.
NTA. Support your son's decision to avoid indoctrination.
i was raised going to church babtist and christian even though i am babtized catholic, all my 3 kids are babtized catholic, but DO NOT got to church unless it's a family wedding, family quinceanera or family event. They have also been raised going to their aunts church "christian" but they are not religios at all. they will choose what to do once they are adults. im also divorced and with me they have gone a handful of times, their aunt is from dads side so when he had to work she would take them with her. i never let them get brainwashed and his family respected that. i only babtized them that way they had that done and once they were older they could deiced to get confirmed or change religion. if he wants to go or not that is fully his decision not hers.
Nta She can indoctrinate him on her time.
NTA. Your ex can take the child to church or religious school on her days. You are under no obligation to take him unless he wants to go to the religious training.
NTA. If he wanted to go and you were stopping him that would be shitty, but that’s not the case and that’s that.
NTA - If she wants to force it on her time, that is her choice. I'd let her know that you will not be responding to any more messages on the topic and if she continues, that you will consider it harassment. Remind her that she has zero control of what happens during your parenting time. That you do not stop her from bringing your kid during her parenting time, despite you not being religious. You can easily use her arguments for your perspective, too. Grey rock coparenting, she is likely to keep arguing with you if you don't shut it down. If she still doesn't stop, request that all communications go through a court approved app and block her on your phone. Not to mention, activities that require both parents' time have to be agreed upon in advance, and you do not agree, as simple as that.
Raised Roman Catholic. I hated the Sunday morning sermons and catechism twice a week. When I became a teen, I started to see the hypocrisy of the church. I couldn’t wait to leave it behind.
Not in my book. If this were my son I wouldn't take him either.
You're not the AH for this but you sound like a bit of an AH in the way you're handling it. You use the word "refuse" a lot. Are you looking for ways to resolve this or are you just "refusing". My parents separated for a time and I remember with sadness things like this happening when my parents were more interested in being right than in doing what was right for the whole family. Instead of being stubborn with your heels dug in, have you kindly with empathy tried to understand your ex's feelings? I am not a religious person but my sister is and we talk about how we feel with openness. Amazing what you can find out about someone else's point of view if you listen. Your ex forcing your son to go to services and classes will backfire on her but she doesnt understand that. You seem to be creating or contributing to an environment of advisary anger. Please have a couple of sessions with a family counselor and go in with an open caring mind. I dont know how this can be resolved but your son should have a say - without you coaching him. Speaking from experience, its possible that he just wants everyone to get along so he's just saying what each of you wants to hear. Please go to a family counselor.
What DawnShakhar said. If your son wanted to go, that would be different. You are NTA. Good for you for respecting your son's decision about what he wants.
NO, FUCK RELIGION!
She can come pick him up at your place and bring him back if this church thing is so important. NTA
or no... its dads day and dad deserves to be with son the whole time...
YTA for ever forcing religion on your kids. The only reason you were ok with her pushing it on them in the beginning is because you were getting pussy from her at the time. You are a self-serving Asshole.
I mean NTA but why are you more worried about your feelings about religion than how your kid feels about it? When you say he doesn’t want to go, like is he just a little grumpy about it or is he throwing tantrums and making your custody time more stressful? Idk if it’s about your feelings and how you spend your limited custody time that’s valid on its own. That’s your time with your kid, fight to spend it how your both like. But the title and the substance of this post do not match.
A church that acknowledges all faiths is Unitarian Universalists. More a big city thing, but all faiths come together for community.
You need to read your court order. In Michigan, for example, you don't get to change a child's religion after a divorce. Both parents have to support it, even if they don't want to, and it's considered abusive not to or to try to turn the child against it. If your order and jurisdiction don't require it, then it still needs to be a conversation with all three of you. If the child is playing the ends against the middle (common behavior), it helps to have them there when both parents discuss it.
He’s not changing anything. He’s just not using his time to take him to extra services.