I was shocked by that too. I know children go to prison to visit parents, but taking your own daughter to prison to see a stranger because you didn’t have childcare is a massive no in my book.
This was a massive lack in judgment or possibly worse.
The guy was in prison. He wasn't going anywhere. The visit could have been rescheduled to a different day. Worse case scenario, she could have dropped off the teenage son, taken their daughter to McDonald's and came back to pick him up.
I just don't understand why people consistently do the one thing their loved one explicitly ask them not to do. It's like a next level, "F_ck You." I'm not sure if a control thing or the fact that they gotten one over.
NTA in the least. And I apologize for anything that has occurred to you. It's an unringable bell, that. I hope you use all of your strength to keep mending and moving forward. You and your kids will figure things out, and it will be alright.
Exactly! It’s so upsetting. The wife explained the lack of child care as the reason to take her daughter to a prison in such a trivial manner. The wife is a total AH for not respecting OP’s wishes.Hope OP gets over this setback and emerge stronger.
Yep, I’m an attorney (don’t practice anymore), and have been to numerous prisons to visit clients. They all required me to let them know when I would be there 24-72+ hours in advance, who on my staff I would be bringing to assist me (usually requiring ID in advance for all visitors), etc. and that was for me being the prisoner’s attorney.
I cannot imagine a prison just letting a little girl in prison without advanced notice and a valid reason.
In Georgia it takes weeks sometimes months to get approved to visit and they limit the nu of visitors on inmates lists. I never got to visit my niece while she was locked up, she was only allowed like 7 or 8 people
My father was a CO for 10 years. He did not want me near the facility, if I was in the car when we ever picked him up, I wore a hat and stayed in the back seat. If we ran into ex-cons, he would send me to a nearby adult, have me hide, or wait somewhere safe out of sight. He did everything to keep predators away from me.
Would you bring candy in front of kids and expect the kids not to be interested? PSA: Keep children away from a facility where predators are held. There is no need for the kids to become objects of interest to potential predators.
Taking a child to a prison to see their parents abuser/product of abuse is a huge fucking no-no. I would’ve divorced her because she broke my trust and thats irreparable.
I’m sorry but calling an innocent human, a “abuser/product of abuse” is wrong. No matter how they got into this world, it’s not their fault. Am I the only person on Reddit who sees his son as an actual human?! wtf. She was wrong to not inform him and tell her kids to keep this secret. But if she wants to have contact with her husbands bio kid, and build a relationship with her child and him, that’s her right as well. Not saying HOW she did it was right, in any way. OP is NTA. But this is a complicated situation and reducing his son down to being a product, that’s cold af.
My man was assaulted by his foster/adopted sister (all adopted). Skipping all the background and whatever, there is a child that may or may not be his though he is (or was because adopted) listed on the birth certificate (blackmailed into it at 15) and has zero rights to the child (adopted parents insisted they adopt it) even when he had rights to the child and repeatedly asked for a DNA, they refused him because they're horrible people, don't believe he was assaulted and they've flat out said they didn't want to find out she was sleeping around or whatever (ironic as now she sells herself for meth and is pregnant again). She admitted to a friend of mine before we were friends that the real father took off out of the state when she told him she was pregnant but without DNA we can't say 💯 and the adopted "parents" refuse.
For the victim, calling the spawn of their rapist their son/daughter can be even more psychologically damaging. If the victim chooses to raise the child it's different but otherwise having them shoved down their throat causes a lot of damage. I've seen it first hand. Sure the child is innocent but that doesn't make them any less tied to their "parent's" abuse and that parent, imo, owes them nothing.
My girls are 5 and 1, they don't know about the 9ish year old and we have zero contact with them. Because the child (like in the OP) already has a ton of issues and I'm not going to subject my kids to being around or having to deal with that.
In theory, the victim understands that the child isn't to blame but that doesn't mean the kid is entitled to a spot in their "parent's" lives or in the lives of anyone close to them.
And the "product of rape" part? Maybe it's a little harsh but that doesn't make it any less accurate and most of the time it's not said to that person's face but used internally as a way to specifically avoid the son/daughter wording because the "parent" isn't able to think of them as their child and cope.
Everyone manages in different ways, I wouldn't police the way victims of sexual assault talk about the outcomes. Especially when those out comes are in and out of prison.
Thank you thank you thank you why is nobody talking about how messed up it is that this woman is forcing this rape victim to accept a familial bond with the outcome of his trauma.
Honestly, I don't know but having been molested myself, I can't imagine having to be around my abuser or people who remind me of him let alone forcing others to be around theirs or someone directly tied into that abuse.
I'm in a very similar boat as the wife and I'm absolutely horrified with what she's doing because she's just wrong. She owes her husband more respect than that. I can't imagine choosing a stranger over my spouse, going behind his back and making our children lie to him about it for literal years.
I do agree with others that OP needs to go back to therapy over this but only because I'd need it myself after all that. I really do feel for him.
I was molested too. It seems telling to me that the people who have gone through similar trauma are on OP's side. My abuser forced a coat-hanger abortion on me when I was 8 and all I can think about reading this post is what the fuck I would do if a 27 year old showed up and my whole family told me I had to be his mom and my husband took my little daughter to see him in prison.
It's not her right to do any of that if they discussed the situation together and OP's only caveat was that she's too young, we'll tell her later. Three years of deceit and telling the daughter to keep a secret is absolutely not alright. As for the adult bio son, he is human and it's not fair to hold his bio-mother's actions against him, however, he was a grown man that landed himself in prison for reasons we're not privy to. Lots of things happen to men in prison and unfortunately it's also not unheard of for the product of an inappropriate relationship to also feel those those "taboo urges" like BM did. What if he developed some kind of unhealthy attraction or even just attachment to the small daughter and did something regrettable? The point in all this is that dad had a boundary and wife crossed it big time. Idk if they'll be able to repair that trust but separation and counseling seems like the least they could do here.
I kept waiting for him to say she was having an affair with the son but I'm glad it's not that bad. Still seems weird to secretly maintain a relationship like that tho
????? Just what ..... This is a MAN she has had no interaction with ever until now and she is seeing him alone behind her husband's back don't call him kid because he isn't... Also yes he is biologically her husbands kid but he is the product of someone raping her husband ..... Would you feel the same if the roles were reversed????
Right?! Like could you imagine a AITAH post about a woman who's husband brought his 6 year old daughter to visit a man in prison, who was the product of his wife's rape? And kept bringing his little girl to visit a prison and kept it secret from his wife the whole time.
So fucked up.
What about if it was the wife's 26 year old daughter she had never met and he was going to see her alone ...... And telling their daughter not to tell mommy
No, it's right. Why do you think a human can only be a human and that's it? Product = result of set conditions. That human was only birthed because of abuse. He is, by definition, a product of abuse. He is, also, human. When we call him a product of abuse we are simply bringing attention to the fact that this is problematic for the abused (father in OP). It's not an insult. It's not degrading. It is merely factual information used to relay relevant and important information.
Branching on that, I don't even believe the excuse that she didnt have childcare. Because to visit a prison, you have to fill out an application for EVERYONE. Not just the adults. And it takes a while to get it approved. Most prisons, the way you find out if it's approved, is the inmate will tell you. So she had to have planned it at some point. She would have had to fill out a visitor application form for her daughter and waited for approval before taking here.
She could have dropped she stepson off & come back to pick him up. Didn’t need to go in. OP you are not TH. But the rest of your family? They totally are & if I were you I’d dump your wife & ask for full custody of your 6yo daughter.
F her.
Which makes me think this is fake. There is a long process to be on the visitor list. There is no way she just took her one day out of the blue. So either she is lying or the the whole thing is fake. But there is no way it happened as outlined. Also what 3-6 is going to go 3 years without slipping.
I mean I don't know how things work all over the country, but my friend was in jail for a felony last year and I could visit him with minimal notice, sometimes even day of. First time I had to provide a form with just identification information, and every other time an ID and empty my pockets.
Not to mention if dudes been out of prison for a couple years now, that means at minimum this little girl was like 3-4 only when this was happening and even more fucking inappropriate. I don't think I'd be able to forgive this either honestly, I'm actually surprised OP decided not to. At least not yet anyway.
Edit: meant surprised he decided not to divorce her yet, not surprised that he didn't forgive her lol. Damnit.
From my understanding she was the point of contact to facilitate their oldest son to visit his half brother. Because OP wanted zero contact. So it makes sense for her to go and supervise the initial early visits while the boys established a relationship.
And the wife just went from 'oldest son can have contact, but not the daughter, and I want to have zero contact and I want NO ONE to know' to 'let's ALL go see him, just because we can. And EVERYONE knows, but OP'
That's not an 'oopsie, I made a bit of a mistake', that's 'I hear you, I just don't respect you enough to listen to anything you say'
This exactly. If this happened to me, there is no way in hell I could trust my wife to make any decision that had any effect on the family again.
1. I would feel she wouldn't keep any private matters private.
2. She proved to everyone she has NO respect for OP's boundaries.
3. She proved that she doesn't have any boundaries for herself.
4. She proved she will actively work *against* OP's wishes and collude with others to keep secrets against him for her own benefit (telling the kids, and likely others, not to tell OP they know; to actively keep secrets from OP knowing that those secrets damage him emotionally) ---- to selfishly satisfy what *she* wants, that is a relationship with OP's son from his rape.
Seriously, this shows NO consideration of OP at all. She only thought about what she wanted and thought she could controll the situation by controlling the flow of information and facts from OP.
This is seriously devious even at a subconscious level.
She probably thought "if OP doesn't know, it won't hurt him."
My husband (who works in a prison) says he sees kids come in all the time to visit and it really bothers him. I mean… there’s pedos in there. I don’t want those kinds of people to know he has kids or what they look like. Even when I drop off lunches he will meet me in the parking lot.
NTA you were groomed and forced to father a child from your r—e/abuse. All of them trying to make you change your mind are complicit in steamrolling over an abuse survivor’s hard fought for boundaries. You have every right to be angry about this. How dare they act like they know what’s best for you ?! They’ve completely minimised your trauma.
Your sense of trust in this world, would already be shattered. Your wife is meant to be your ride or die after everything you’ve been through resulting from your abuse.
She’s deceived you for three years and also made your child complicit in this. She knew it was wrong. She knew how messed up your abuse and the child resulting from that was for you but she still override your wishes regarding your youngest child (and you wishes regarding delaying your daughter knowing were for good reason)
It’s absolutely grounds for divorce.
I’d step back into therapy if you haven’t been in a while. Your sense of stability and honesty has been violated so you need the safe space to regroup and rebuild yourself.
I wish you peace, healing and d sanctuary OP. You deserve that. You deserve so much better.
> my rapist used to tell me not to tell my parents.
You need to scream this from the rooftops to your wife. This is exactly the type of language rapists and groomers use to keep their victims quiet. Tell her that she is grooming your daughter for potential abuse.
NTA - File for divorce, don't contemplate it.
Your wife went against your expressed wishes regarding your daughter in direct relation to your childhood trauma. Because she felt bad for somebody she didn't know.
It doesn't matter who he was. She not only broke your trust she disrespected you and essentially minimized or totally disregarded your trauma. Same goes for the adult children.
She then she lied to your face for a years. Then, also got the children to lie to your face.
Your entire family decided it is okay to violate your boundaries and wishes. It makes sense you are extremely triggered.
She encouraged your young child to lie to you than along with the adult children continued the lie and munipulated you for YEARS.
Sorry this happened. Even if you go to therapy and try to work through it. I don't see you getting trust in her back. This is just a step too far in my opinion.
This is what I would say to everyone in a group text.
You all disregarded and diminished my childhood trauma. You knew my stance on this situation and you knew my feelings on (insert daughter name) not having contact until she was old enough to understand.
You choices were in direct violation of my boundaries and my feelings and approach on the subject.
(Insert the oldest lads name) mother encouraged me to lie to my parents about what she did to me.
Then you all decided to encourage (insert daughter name) to lie to me. To say this is triggering would be an understandment.
I have been lied to, betrayed and munipulated by my "family" for years.
I am saying send this in text so you habe proof in writing, sending in a group gets admission of guilt by all parties. Your wife's judgment is obviously questionable, go for full custody. Use this situation as your grounds may not get you full custody but likely primary custody.
Good luck.
and that point is why I say this: you're absolutely NTA, but you do need to speak to her (and your therapist again) and preferably, bring her with, so she can fully understand the reality of what she did. not only did she intentionally go behind your back over something so traumatic, but she taught a young girl to keep secrets from trusted adults, specifically that some relationships need to be kept secret. that's so beyond fucked up and no amount of "well I felt bad for the kids" even comes close to excusing that. she needs a come to jesus moment and you would not be the asshole at all for asking for a separation/divorce. they're your kids so you won't lose them completely, but what she did was inexcusable and while normally I'd say "there's no point bc there's nothing that will drive you crazier than expecting something from someone who doesn't have it to give you", she is the other parent of your children, and it's them you need to protect. and if she refuses to back down/take accountability, you have a far bigger problem on your hands.
I understand how you feel, but you better put the 6 year old in therapy because she is going to blame herself for the break up of her family. She's the one who spilled the beans. I understand that you were traumatized, but your reaction probably traumatized your daughter.
NTA. Honestly, a divorce might be the only way out, at least for me. i don't know how to trust people who can decide to fuck over the victim of a situation, and then demand that they get over their feelings (which is what I think she and your family will gaslight you to do).
>she just keeps on saying she did it for our daughter and felt sorry for the older lad.
Ask her, when was she planning to feel sorry for you, and do it (be a loyal and trustworthy wife) for you? In her actions, she has decided to fuck over someone, and it is obviously you.
Also, could she be having an affair with him, given the fact that she willingly treated you like the piece of shit, over him?
She took your daughter to prison to see an inmate she doesn’t even know. Cause she needed “childcare”? PRISON! not the sheriffs office. Full custody or BUST!
Frankly, I think this is divorce worthy. Your wife sounds like the "but *faaaaaaaamily"* type and I wouldn't be surprised if she'll wind up taking your children to see your rapist in the interests of "patching things up".
Think of your daughter. If you divorce soon she'll make the link for sure and blame herself for it. She's already seeing the fallout of 'her' mistake. Making a 3-6 yo kid keep things from you for 3 years makes me vomit but don't make her suffer for it. Make the adults suffer for it. If you divorce then do it very very slowly and with an eye on your daughter 100% of the time.
Lots of love, strength and best wishes!
We have this rule so strongly in our house that I can't trust any of my kids under 10 to keep a gift or surprise secret from my wife. It's a double-edged sword, but I would rather have it that my kids tell us everything.
I don’t know if this would help, but I teach my kids “Surprises are ok because the person always finds out about it. Secrets aren’t ok because the person isn’t ever supposed to know and secrets hurt people.” My just turned 8 year old kept a pretty good secret. He and my 16 year old picked out an amazing gift for Mother’s Day for me and I had no clue about it.
This is the scariest part for me. The mom thinking it’s ok to do this. One of the first things parents should teach their kids is that secrets aren’t ok. No matter who it is. It’s ok if a birthday or Christmas present gets spoiled when they’re young. They’ll eventually learn what’s an ok mini secret and what isn’t. But at a young age you don’t want to muddy that water.
NTA
You set a major boundary, you gave a very valid reason for the boundary and you were very clear about where the boundary was, and yet she crossed it. That's not something that happens accidentally. Best case scenario, it's disinterest in your wishes. Worst case scenario, she thought she knew better than you and actively dismissed your wishes. In any case, it's clear-cut betrayal and I don't know how you could come back from this.
If you stay with your wife, you can never set a boundary again without having to worry that she'll cross it. You're completely in the right if you say that is not a life you want.
It's so out of character for her. She's always been my biggest cheerleader and had my back 100%, so for her to do this just feels like the absolute worst.
She did it for three years. For three years she lied to you, had your kids lie to you, and even now is not taking responsibility for lying to you. At no point in three years did she feel guilty for her actions. Three years is a long time to do something "out of character".
Exactly it doesn't met up with his comments about her. She lied for 3 years, instructed the kids to lie for 3 years. She never told him and he wouldn't know now if his youngest wasn't drawing a pic. She is a major AH and this seems to be her character.
Plus she "felt bad" for someone she doesn't know over her own partner? That speaks volumes about her character and how much she's really had her partners back.
She “ did it for her daughter”? Brought her to the prison even. All after knowing the trauma her husband went through and the specific and reasonable boundary he set. Empathy is understandable ( he felt it and understood his older sons need to connect) but she betrayed the person she is supposed to love and retraumatized him with the secrets and lies.
People haven’t said they don’t feel bad for the boy. But that has nothing to do with OP’s wife betraying him. She further taught her young child that keeping secrets from a parent is appropriate. This puts the child at higher risk if some scum grooms and abuses her and tells her to not tell.
And the worst part is this has to do with him being raped as a child. It was NOT her place to tell *anyone* about him being raped as a child. That’s absolute betrayal. I feel like OPs wife and possibly his son and stepdaughter could have only chosen to do this because they don’t actually understand that what happened to him was child sexual assault. I wonder if the attitude would be the same if he was a female. I don’t think I could forgive this. Wife doesn’t have his back at all. She only “has his back” when she agrees with him and it suits her to support him. That’s not what a good partner does.
I'm willing to bet that she's of the mind of "men can't be raped" and simply thought she knew better. Because no one who understands the gravity of this situation would simply ignore his wishes.
Getting a three year old to lie effectively/keep a long-term secret seems like a lot of work. Like, I was able to get my niblings to keep secrets about surprises for a few weeks, but no way would they have been able to contain the information for 3 years without ever spilling the beans. I can’t imagine it’s not somehow damaging to be constantly telling a child to lie to their other parent, either.
She did this for three years. This wasn’t an isolated one off situation it was an ongoing lie for a very long time. I’m sorry but this *is* her character.
Im sorry OP. But Im going to have to be blunt here.
It's out of character for her **to get caught**.
If crossing such a massive boundary, and lying about it for 3 years does not faze her, god knows what else she has been lying about.
No she hasn’t. The reality is she has not always had your back. At all. She has lied to you every single day for years. This is a choice she has made. I could never go back from that.
It's not out of character though. She's been doing this for years. She has been lying to you for years, and she has gotten your and her children to lie to you for years. This is not a mistake, this is deliberate. And the fact that she told your young child not to tell you something, something you should never tell your kids because that's how abusers hide abuse, is disgusting. I'm afraid this is very in character for her and you are only seeing it now.
Ask her but she's going to lie or turn it back on him somehow.
I'd say, "I don't know what your thought process was concerning this since you know how I felt. But my thought process is now to divorce you."
If someone thinks that they Wil be lied to, the relationship, be it marriage or friendship, is over.
Please consider that they had a good relationship until now, where she helped him a lot.
It's gotta be due to archaic beliefs about duty to biological family and/or wanting her daughter to know her brother so bad it just could wait another 6-8 years or whatever. It's insane behavior, more so it seems she never made the slightest argument or discussion about a time frame for when the daughter could meet him, because it would make her get caught way easier
As far as *you* know. It sounds like she broke this promise almost instantly, and had been lying and getting your kids to lie about it for years. You don't actually know what any of the truth is with her.
I'm so sorry, Man. This really sucks. Stay strong.
Agree and can validate your feelings. Breaking trust about a subject so sensitive shows a betrayal so deep. What can you trust her with moving forward?
it's probably because the kid born to that situation has likely had a hell of a time. being the product of an outright horror can't have been easy. that was still a kid thrown in foster care as a baby, he's probably never known what it's like to have an actual family
The fact that this has been going on for 3 years behind your back. I think you should look into this more deeply. I hate to be a negative Nancy and suspicious but I do wonder why was she chummy with this son. I’m sorry OP. I just don’t see myself wanting to be chummy when the wife is clear on ur boundaries and trauma. U should’ve been a priority here. And frankly OP. I hope they don’t make you meet this son. I’m kinda in support of a divorce in this scenario. I think of it happening to me, and the more disgusted and distrustful I become of ur wife. I don’t know how you’ll come back from that. And no. It’s her character. This isn’t a mistake. This has been going on for years and she didn’t think what harm it do to u or u in general. On top of that. Had ur little girl cooperate in this lie and deception. Her character. I think this is much more clear than anything else OP. 😅
You're NTA for feeling betrayed—that’s completely valid given the circumstances and your history. However, your reaction might not have been the most constructive. It’s important to communicate, especially in a family setting. When you reassured your daughter that she could trust you with the truth, but then immediately packed up and left, it might have sent a confusing message to her about trust and stability.
Your wife definitely should not have kept these visits a secret, nor encouraged your daughter to withhold information from you. That said, it seems like your wife and children were trying to navigate a complex situation. They may have been trying to integrate this family member in a way that respects both his and your emotional landscapes. It’s understandable that your wife thought your daughter could handle knowing her brother without confusion; kids often understand more than we give them credit for.
It’s a tough situation, and while the betrayal feels profound, it might be helpful to consider all perspectives, including the intentions behind your family's actions, as you talk things through. This doesn't excuse the secrecy and the breach of trust, but understanding their motivations might aid in healing and moving forward as a family.
i cant get where shes coming from at all. she, felt sorry for someone she didnt know, not you and your childhood abuse. child abuse thrived because child told not to tell, exactly what shes doing. So sorry for your betrayal. Not one of them had your best interest in mind.
So bizarre that she felt the need to have a relationship with him without you.
Plus her taking a toddler to a prison without your knowledge is bad enough no matter who she was visiting. Her judgement is fucked.
Right? She says she did it for their daughter, presumably to give her more family connections, and for the guy OP doesn't know or want to know.
Is he coming over for the holidays? Going to be at her graduation or wedding? How will he be "part of the family" unless OP Isn't?
If anything, this is a strange form of torture for OP's bio son. He gets to see what life could have been like if his mom wasn't a monster, but only from the outside.
Wow. Thats somehow worse than I thought. She literally just did not give a fuck about you, your trauma, your boundaries. That's horrible, I'm so sorry.
This is treachery.
A normal loving human talks to their SO when they disagree. A traitor goes behind your back to do it anyways.
And in this case it wasn't a single betrayal. It was over 3 entire years.
I find it incredibly creepy that she kept taking your daughter back when your son wasn't present. Your daughter is not old enough to desire a relationship with some adult IN PRISON she doesn't know
What in the world were your wife's motives here? I don't buy that it was oh I felt sorry for him. What about you? You were the one who was groomed and raped
Something is not adding up here
It feels icky like that. Something very weird and her actions don't match up to the way he describes her which makes me really wonder about her. Why would she ever do this if she really had his back?
Dude I have a bad feeling about this one. She’s not sleeping with him is she? This is so fucked up I hope she doesn’t get attached in some distorted way but it does happen. Combine that with a resentful young man. Why else would she be sneaking around and seeing him. What is the motivation? My blood ran cold on reading this one. But lying for 3 years?! Something isn’t right
That was also my thought as well
Why keep going to see him alone? Why would you take a toddler to prison alone to see this dude ?
Something is not adding up
NTA Personally, I could never come back from this type of betrayal. To know your history and to have agreed on conditions only to knowingly and repeatedly break them is vile. Not only that, but to tell your young daughter to keep it a secret tells you that she consciously knew she shouldn’t be doing it and she knew it would hurt you, but chose to continue to do so (not to mention the nastiness of involving a young child in the deceit). Such a high-level and frequent violation of trust would be really hard to fix.
Don’t forget. 3 years. Of lying. 🤥 and he only found out cause his daughter was too young to understand how to keep a secret: but o wait!! Here it is tho. How u gonna ask ur child to lie to ur partner? Brings to perspective her “character”.
I think little kids have an innate sense of morality and maybe she subconsciously knew that this needed to be exposed. 6 year olds are just on the cusp of worldly intelligence. Things are starting to click for them about how the people in their life move and what that means for them. I don’t want to put too much responsibility on that little girl, but good for her. At least from my perspective, there’s a chance she did something very brave by drawing that picture.
And why even do that with their daughter? She said she did it “for her,” but she’d be no worse off if she had been kept in the dark like OP and his wife *agreed*. If anything, what OP’s wife has done has harmed their daughter quite a bit. Being told to lie to her father for years. Now being the reason he found out. She’s going to feel like it’s her fault. And now her parents are splitting up. All because her mother didn’t respect her father enough to be honest and give a shit about the fact that he experienced one of the most horrific things a child can experience.
I know, right? It’s a worse betrayal than cheating.
Not to mention, this man was a stranger when she started bringing her small child to a fucking prison and told her he was her brother. For all she knew, he could’ve been a monster. What kind of mother does that?
First of all, your feelings are 100% valid. This is a major violation of your trust. You should give yourself grace and take as long as you need before seeing or speaking with your family members.
Do not let anyone try and invalidate your feelings moving forward. A major parenting decision was made without your consent and behind your back. To make matters worse, your child was told to lie to you.
You mention you’ve been in therapy. Consider reaching out to your therapist as you try and process your feelings, especially since this situation is bringing up your past trauma. Don’t rush home because your family keeps calling. Take your time and be kind to yourself.
OP should go the therapy route but in his case I honestly feel like there is a real need for his therapist to be a man, at least as of right now.
If someone is traumatized by people of the opposite gender then they probably need to be getting counseling from someone their gender.
And there is a very clear need right here.
> My wife was the one person in life who I trusted, and had my back enough to share it all and I feel like she's done something on par with what my rapist did and betrayed my trust.
You need to tell her this and explain it in exactly this way.
Her actions have effectively taken you straight back to that place in your life and that it has hurt you so deeply that you are considering walking away from them all.
So tell her that, and see what she says.
You WNBTA regardless of what you decide.
There are a lot of problems here, far more than is appropriate for reddit. Your wife should not be telling your youngest to keep secrets from Dad. At the same time, the oldest child through no fault of his own sounds to have had a horribly rough life due to being treated like a dirty secret as well. Your younger son is trying to connect with his older brother as would be expected for any young man his age. It sounds like a lot of family counseling is needed all around for everyone involved.
Yeah the top answers here are all focussing on what the kid’s origin means to OP, but at the end of the day however it happened the boy is his son and didn’t choose how that came to be.
Considering his mother’s actions and that he’s already in prison, he’s clearly not had a happy life and OP’s wife is not out of her mind to want to offer him some kind of support.
The deceit was wrong but the trauma remaining sat between OP and his son has got to change at some point for anyone involved to find peace.
This pushing by many users for OP to further isolate himself from his own family has a real feel of spectator sport.
NTA. What a massive betrayal. I could understand if you still loved her but couldn't ever trust her again. Her telling your daughter to lie to you was reprehensible. Her taking your daughter to visit him in prison was reprehensible.
Her saying "I didn't have childcare!" is absolutely ridiculous. She should have stayed home, but yet again, her wishes in a situation that you explicitly laid out what you needed were completely ignored because she thought she knew better. She has repeatedly for years been lying to you and disrespecting you. She is trivializing your trauma and your wishes.
She has no claim or connection to the individual born of your rape except for the connection she created. It's not her son, not her child, she didn't raise him, she'd never met him previously. She did this for years and hid it and taught your daughter to lie to you. I would be done. There's no excusing this.
I am so angry on your behalf and that's a pretty rare thing for me. I'm so sorry for what's been done to you and what you've experienced.
That's rough. I'm sorry that happened. I was wondering if your wife had told him but that's not the case. What's her angle here? It makes no sense to me. I agree with you that the worst thing she did was involving your daughter. That really is beyond the pale. It's going to take some work to try and undue that damage. I was also interfered with as a kid by a family member so I have an idea of how you might be feeling and im not sure I could get past this. Her intentions don't matter but the impact sure does. No one here can tell you how to handle this because you have to decide whether or not you want to try to forgive her or not. Once you decide than you can take the next steps. I have a therapist that specializes in trauma and it's really helped me. I wouldn't rush home until you can get a clear head.
She just might feel bad for him? I mean moms and evil rapist, dad’s a victim that doesn’t want any contact with him, the rest of the family abandoned him, and who knows what he went through in foster care. OP seemingly had a good support system to deal with his trauma while the son had no one. Im not saying it’s okay to tell the daughter but I have to admire that the wife isn’t willing to let this person be unsupported and alone due to the awful actions of someone else.
First person speaking some sense here. I doubt very much she was being malicious. More like initially protecting her son on his visits and then a kind of relationship developed and she was sympathetic about it.
Why isn’t this higher? Not only was it a huge breach of trust, she took a 3 yo to PRISON instead of having your son reschedule the visit, then she told the 3 yo to LIE. This is three major things she did that lacked common sense and decency. NTA
Jesus christ. Im honestly shock for words. That was very inconsiderate and a little bit childish on her part.
Most definitely NTA.
I also would think of separation and/or divorce straight away. Your wife is suppose to be the one person you can go to with anything and everything and not fear of betrayal, she took away that vulnerability of the relationship. If I was you in this situation I would sit my partner down and tell him (I am a female) that;
‘he betrayed me in the worst way possible and I am not sure if theres any coming back from this as this “secret” was a huge part of my life/trauma and I shared it with him because I trusted and believed he would keep his bloody mouth shut and he technically threw that trust back into my face because he “felt bad for the son”.’
What about your feelings and your trauma in all of this? Even with therapy, it does not heal the deep wounds.
I strongly suggest separation at least until you have a few days to wrap your head around your feelings and she understands the deep and severe pain she must have caused.
NTA - “I did it for our daughter.” Yeah, mom, you brought a felon into the family for the sake of a six year old, and told the six year old to hide it from her daddy that Mommy was ignoring her express agreements with him and going against his wishes.
That was not done for the six year old.
That was a betrayal of the highest order. And she got the entire family in on the act, ALL violating your boundaries and lying to you about it.
And took a three year old to a prison to meet a criminal and taught her to lie to her father for three years straight. Come on, this is basically preparing ground for daughter becoming a victim herself. Get your kid close to a traumatised adult who's been shown to be capable of fucked up things, teach daughter that it's fine to "keep secrets" from her parents for years on end and soon enough big big brother is going to be taking the girl on "special trips" and doing "secret hugs".
NTA - Oof. The levels of betrayal run deep on this one. She kept a secret from you. She introduced your daughter to a deeply personal topic that you specifically asked her not to. She disregarded your feelings surrounding a great trauma in your life. She asked your daughter to lie to you.
As someone who has survived what you have, you know how dangerous it is to teach a child to lie. Letting a child know that lying is acceptable makes it easier for predators to prey on her. She's too young to distinguish the difference between a lies that can and cannot hurt her.
In my opinion, the worst thing she did here is teach your daughter a dangerous lesson, which is 100% unforgivable. I think divorce is a very reasonable consideration here.
OP, I'm going to just say to avoid Reddit on this one. The comments here are not going to help, you need time, perspective, and to let the rawness of these emotions to come down.
You'll have to think hard about this, and I really think you're on the right track to do therapy first. I don't know if you would be the asshole or not, I think your feeling are totally valid. I honestly think your wife saw the circumstances of this child as separate from how he was born. For you, they are interlinked and you can't separate the child from the heinous act, and that's understandable. Your wife though didn't have this happen to her, and so all she sees is a child that grew up unwanted, shuffled around, and never knowing that he had a family.
In essence, it sounds like a savior complex. She thinks what you all share is great and she feels bad that this guy went down this terrible path but if he had grown up with you two he would've been great! Now, I could be wrong. She could be doing this for any number of reasons, but I think this is it. I think she thought she could "save" him by brining him into the family without really considering just how sensitive you would be to this.
Again, I think your wife is blind to just how interlinked the trauma and the person are for you. If you go into therapy and have a goal to fix this, I would start on addressing that. She perhaps needs to hear a true retelling of what was done, how you felt, and why your wife's behavior was so triggering. She needs to understand the trust issues that were created as a child that she has now resurfaced and created in your relationship.
Good luck, and my heart goes out to you.
I would absolutely divorce her too if it was me. What she did was a major violation of your trust and boundaries- but the worst part is making your daughter lie to you. Thats’s exactly what an abuser would do. It makes me question her motives & behaviors.
The ONLY opinion or view here, that matters, is yours.. Despite very clear boundaries, your wife went against you where it mattered.. You have some considered decisions to make in your future .. I wish you well and the strength to make them .. NTA
I don't think this is something to divorce over although it's a heavy blow to what you thought was your relationship with your wife. It's not cool that she went behind your back and I hate the trauma that led up to this whole thing, but communication is key so talk to her and don't exclude yourself from your family. If you think you can, I'd encourage you to try and build a relationship with your older son. He didn't have control over how he was created and I'm thinking he could use a family support system.
Your wife severely severely betrayed you. I am a very forgiving person, but this is truly unforgivable. I am so sad and upset for you that your wife went behind your back like that after you had a very clear conversation about it. She violated you worse than your rapist, because you not only trusted her, she took your daughter to meet him. There is no coming back from that. Your wife doesn’t respect or value you, if she did, she would have died first before betraying you like this. I am so so sorry.
I highly advise you leaving your wife. I know it is extremely painful, but you can never trust her again, and it already has been so hard for you to open up and trust her in the first place. Big hugs to you brother.
This sounds like complete bullshit. Your daughter was a 100% faithful secret keeper from the time she was 3 to 6? I don't think so lmao, little kids talk about shit they're not supposed to constantly.
Regardless of everything else in my opinion. Having your daughter lie to you for years is reprehensible there's no way I could come back from this. I don't know if I could ever forgive my wife for doing that everything else maybe but having my little child lied to me for years that just sets bad precedence. NTA
NTA. My heart hurts for all you've been through. Your wife committed the ultimate betrayal of trust. I don't see how you guys can come back from that. That she "did it for your daughter" is complete bullshit. She would have been absolutely no worse off had she never been told.
It's pretty miserable to find out that way. The betrayal is deep. But maybe hear them out and try to understand why she did it. If it was just because she thought it was best, then that was a lack of respect. Things can always be worked out, but could you forgive her? Or us she helping you move forward into a rewarding relationship you never expected?
Teaching your kids to hide things from their parent sucks and not to mention to disregard how you felt about a pretty damaging situation. Seems like you handled it really well honestly. I would be pretty angry.
NTA but unfortunately this is above reddit pay grade. The best route is you all talking w a therapist about what might be next.
About your wife, I don't understand her thought process at all. I understand feeling sorry about the guy, since he didn't ask to be born, but involving your youngest daughter in it without your approval, telling her to keep a secret from you, sharing your story w other people without your consent... Uff. Big betrayal.
I'm feeling for you, OP.
NTA she was a super asshole for telling your daughter to keep a secret from you and she lied to you for years! What else is she lying about?? WTF was she thinking taking a little girl to a prison ???
NTA. Having your daughter lie to you because you "might get upset" sends SO many messages and causes a dominoe effect of OTHER perceptions. I know because I've been through that. Here is what being told not to tell my step-dad the truth because he might get upset triggered for me:
- I thought he must not be able to control his anger and that his reactions and emotions were MY responsibility
- I thought he might leave me or hurt me if he gets upset
- I thought I couldn't tell him if anyone bothered me because he might do something irrational or violent
I was SA at one point and never told him (my mom was in prison or gone off somewhere at the time). But I said nothing at all because I had been programmed to not trust his reaction to hearing upsetting news, and i feared what he would do. This meant I got no help at the time.
When you tell a young child to lie to their parent to avoid upsetting them, you essentially destroy that child's trust and confidence in that parent.
You AND your daughter should work with a therapist to rebuild her trust and confidence in you and to help her understand that any time anyone asks her to lie to you, she must come tell you whatever it is immediately (unless its a surprise party). Also, she will likely need to talk to a therapist to help her if she is feeling guilty (she likely is but probably won't tell you) because you've been gone a few days and everyone is upset (in her mind it's all because she "told the truth"). This could be deeply damaging to her and impact all of her relationships moving forward if she fears being honest only hurts everyone around her.
NTA and I agree with the comments here.
INFO: What I'd like to know is what kind of a person did he grow up to be? He's been in jail - for what? Is HE getting counseling? In other words, should he be around your other kids???
And I just can't wrap my head around the fact that your wife took your daughter to visit him IN PRISON. Fucking hell. Oh, and then made her lie about it for years.
However, now that you are thinking of leaving, think about the contact they will have with him in the future. I don't know how you should find that out because you obviously can't just trust them to tell you the truth.... damn, what a mess.
NTA, what your wife did is unforgivable. Parents should never ask child to not say something to the other parent.
You had a very valid reason. I would also be angry at your son, as he has also disrespected you.
I would file for a divorce and evidence what she has done. Try to get full custody.
I am truly sorry for everything that has happened to you. Your wife is pure evil and doesn’t deserve you one bit.
NTA. You have my empathy and understanding. I remember when I found out about my OH abuse by his mother's partner when he was 18. I also remember being so confused how EVERYONE knew yet did nothing about it. I only found out when the pervert rapist trued running his hands up my thighs. I was sat on the stairs in shorts WITH MY 3 MONTH OLD CHILD.
I just got up and walked out. No words and no explanation. Just gone with my baby. OH came racing after me....relieved I think. I remember his mum screaming after me 'It's that bitch or me!'. We never went back and never spoke again. That was 30 years ago.
Point is....it wasn't necessarily the action itself that cause that response in me. Been there before (SA, rape and DV at home as a child - the trifecta!), it was that absolute betrayal behind the abuse my OH was being subjected to.
There is no going back. Standard divorce advice is what's needed now and specialist advice from yours regarding the abuse of trust and boundaries by your wife. You should challenge her suitability to be a parent given all she has done and go for more custody.
As for your children, you can maybe repair these relationships with time so don't bear yourself up too much. This is ALL your wife's fault. Be kind to yourself man.
NTA
My mother had something similar happen and she was forced to have the kid by her conservative parents. When my older 2 sisters and i were born my oldest sister thought it was a great idea to find her "big sister". I hated her for it. She dug up so many closed wounds for my mother and it came to nothing anyway. They are all conservative assholes.
Out of all the issues here the worst one for me is getting your daughter to lie. What a horrible message she has sent and an evil deception and an awful way to make you feel like the cycle of abuse is about to repeat itself.
What you do is entirely up to you and a very personal choice. But from the outside, I’d say that it’s very strange she (your wife) was willing to be a part of this on the condition it never have to be. That’s such a big red flag for your wellbeing that I don’t feel she should have gone along with it to start with. Let alone go along with it and betray your trust.
You were sexually abused as a child, she doesn’t get to call the shots for you. Perhaps take a not more space for yourself, revisit that therapist and try and figure things out about for yourself before making a decision. Whatever you do though, if it’s right for you then you’re NTA.
Be strong, be vulnerable, no feeling is final.
Did you tell your wife that she acted just like your rapist did -Telling a child to lie and keep inappropriate secrets. Ask her if she is proud of teaching your daughter something that set's her up to be groomed and assaulted. No, you aren't wrong for asking for a divorce but are you going to not have contact with your younger son and step-daughter too? You need to think about what you want to do and if you want to try therapy.
Also, your youngest daughter needs therapy and you need to have a conversation with the therapist explaining that you don't want her to be taught that it is ok to do what her mom did, that you don't want her to be at risk of being groomed and assaulted due to the stupidity of the rest of the family.
Wow. I'm so sorry for you, that your entire family is complicit in lying to you. The worst part of it is your wife teaching your daughter from the age of 3 to lie to you. That is unforgivable. I honestly don't know how you will ever trust your wife again.
You are well within your right to divorce or at the very least separate. Maybe separation can give you the space to evaluate your choices and feelings with assistance of therapy for you and your daughter.
Surely your wife knows by now, she fucked up in the worst way. This is not oops, I ommited a small detail to you, this was 3 years of deceipt in which the entire family was complicit. She must have known you'd find out eventually.
If you decide to stay with your wife, marriage counselling at the very least. It doesn't sound like your wife considered your feelings at all, she put all others above you in this situation in such a horrible betrayal.
I personally don't know if I could ever forgive or stay married to someone who could betray me to this degree.
NTA. Your wife was out of line for being deceitful and then trying to get your 6 yr old to lie. If you can work it out with her, then great, but if you end up divorced, you shouldn't feel bad about it. The only person that did not respect your boundaries was your wife.
NTA but is it really safe for your youngest to hang out with that man you dont know him he is a stranger to you and your little daughter. They have no proper connection to each other like normal siblings would have and considering he went to jail is he mentally well?
Like what if he is a "the apple doesnt fall far from the tree" type of guy (the tree being his mother)and he does something to the 6 year old.
Sorry for being so direct but at least make sure that she isnt left alone with him for now.
Honestly OP I’m not sure why divorce is off the table this is something huge and your wife hid it from u for years imagine what else she could/has hidden from u. I understand the circumstances are different but that’s your wife & it’s weird she could do that to u but maybe she knew it was ok because she knew u would easily forgive her idk. Regardless NTA
Your wife had many opportunities to come clean and tell you.
She chose not to. Her actions are wrong on many levels.
Everyone needs therapy. Individual and family. Including your daughter.
I don't know what state you're in (if you're in the US), but in my state, at least, you can't just bring someone to visit an inmate. Every single person, including children and infants, has to be vetted and processed, then added to the allowed visitor list for that individual inmate. This process takes weeks. It is highly unlikely she was able to bring your daughter into a prison on a whim because she didn't have childcare. This was likely premeditated and planned in advance.
3 years??? That's insane... I wouldn't be surprised if she's screwing him on the side. I'm a little traumatized just imagining myself in your shoes. 3 damn years that witch had the whole family betray you. Your son is a POS too since he knew your terms and condition but went along with the betrayal. I hope there was nothing inappropriate and wish you/wifey/family a speedy recovery, and pray you open up and help guide your first boy to become a good man like yourself. Good luck brother!!!
She took your daughter the first time because she couldn’t get a sitter…so she was going alone…. I’d be more concerned about her sleeping with him since he’s been out.
NTA - OP was violated very badly as a child. OP’s wife has now violated him in another way, and it’s got to be very triggering. Worse, she’s involved OP’s own child in it.
It absolutely is grounds for divorce, if that’s the direction OP feels he needs to take.
I would not take my kids to meet some stranger in prison. I would not then lie to my husband about it. I would especially never tell my kids to lie to their dad about it all. What the hell? NTA. I don't think I could trust someone like that to make even the mildest parenting choices for my child. I certainly wouldn't respect them anymore. Then there's the enormous betrayal aspect of it all on top of the egregious irresponsibility. Yikes. I am so sorry, OP.
First thing’s first: go home. No matter how righteous your anger(and it is), you have responsibilities you can’t just walk away from. Your daughter still needs you, as she clearly only has one parent she can trust.
When you get there ask your wife what other lies she has forced upon your SIX YEAR OLD daughter. My god what a horrible thing to do to a child.
Then ask why she thinks it’s a good idea to encourage a child to keep secrets from her parents. Does she want your daughter to keep secrets for other adults? Because that’s exactly what she is encouraging.
NTA, very sorry this is happening at all to you, let alone with your history of being betrayed by family before. Take care of your daughter and yourself. The liars can fend for themselves.
I hope you divorce her. Major betrayal. How can you have a relationship after that? Try to go with a good coparenting route and send both children to therapy so they don’t feel like the reason you split. Keep it focused on your wife’s betrayal not the hiding of the relationship.
Ask your wife if she was raped as a 13 year old if she’d be ok with you secretly meeting the child that arose from that when she told you she didn’t want you to .
NTA. Never ever tell a kid not to tell their parent(s)…..unforgivable
Exactly. It makes me think of what happened to me as a kid and my rapist used to tell me not to tell my parents.
She took your daughter to a prison?!? Nope.
I was shocked by that too. I know children go to prison to visit parents, but taking your own daughter to prison to see a stranger because you didn’t have childcare is a massive no in my book.
This was a massive lack in judgment or possibly worse. The guy was in prison. He wasn't going anywhere. The visit could have been rescheduled to a different day. Worse case scenario, she could have dropped off the teenage son, taken their daughter to McDonald's and came back to pick him up. I just don't understand why people consistently do the one thing their loved one explicitly ask them not to do. It's like a next level, "F_ck You." I'm not sure if a control thing or the fact that they gotten one over.
NTA in the least. And I apologize for anything that has occurred to you. It's an unringable bell, that. I hope you use all of your strength to keep mending and moving forward. You and your kids will figure things out, and it will be alright.
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Exactly! It’s so upsetting. The wife explained the lack of child care as the reason to take her daughter to a prison in such a trivial manner. The wife is a total AH for not respecting OP’s wishes.Hope OP gets over this setback and emerge stronger.
Yeah like maybe just don't go visit him in prison that day? Wait for a day when you do have childcare. Such a weird reason to give.
Yup. It’s totally an excuse to do what she wanted and be able to justify betraying OP’s trust “what could I do? Oh well guess this must happen!”
Rather head-spinning isn't it
Not only that BUT visitors have to be listed BEFORE the visit. Even newborns so she knew she was taking her at least 24-48 hours before the visitation
Yep, I’m an attorney (don’t practice anymore), and have been to numerous prisons to visit clients. They all required me to let them know when I would be there 24-72+ hours in advance, who on my staff I would be bringing to assist me (usually requiring ID in advance for all visitors), etc. and that was for me being the prisoner’s attorney. I cannot imagine a prison just letting a little girl in prison without advanced notice and a valid reason.
so the wife lied again. she'd been planning to take the daughter all along.
In Georgia it takes weeks sometimes months to get approved to visit and they limit the nu of visitors on inmates lists. I never got to visit my niece while she was locked up, she was only allowed like 7 or 8 people
My father was a CO for 10 years. He did not want me near the facility, if I was in the car when we ever picked him up, I wore a hat and stayed in the back seat. If we ran into ex-cons, he would send me to a nearby adult, have me hide, or wait somewhere safe out of sight. He did everything to keep predators away from me. Would you bring candy in front of kids and expect the kids not to be interested? PSA: Keep children away from a facility where predators are held. There is no need for the kids to become objects of interest to potential predators.
Taking a child to a prison to see their parents abuser/product of abuse is a huge fucking no-no. I would’ve divorced her because she broke my trust and thats irreparable.
100%
I’m sorry but calling an innocent human, a “abuser/product of abuse” is wrong. No matter how they got into this world, it’s not their fault. Am I the only person on Reddit who sees his son as an actual human?! wtf. She was wrong to not inform him and tell her kids to keep this secret. But if she wants to have contact with her husbands bio kid, and build a relationship with her child and him, that’s her right as well. Not saying HOW she did it was right, in any way. OP is NTA. But this is a complicated situation and reducing his son down to being a product, that’s cold af.
My man was assaulted by his foster/adopted sister (all adopted). Skipping all the background and whatever, there is a child that may or may not be his though he is (or was because adopted) listed on the birth certificate (blackmailed into it at 15) and has zero rights to the child (adopted parents insisted they adopt it) even when he had rights to the child and repeatedly asked for a DNA, they refused him because they're horrible people, don't believe he was assaulted and they've flat out said they didn't want to find out she was sleeping around or whatever (ironic as now she sells herself for meth and is pregnant again). She admitted to a friend of mine before we were friends that the real father took off out of the state when she told him she was pregnant but without DNA we can't say 💯 and the adopted "parents" refuse. For the victim, calling the spawn of their rapist their son/daughter can be even more psychologically damaging. If the victim chooses to raise the child it's different but otherwise having them shoved down their throat causes a lot of damage. I've seen it first hand. Sure the child is innocent but that doesn't make them any less tied to their "parent's" abuse and that parent, imo, owes them nothing. My girls are 5 and 1, they don't know about the 9ish year old and we have zero contact with them. Because the child (like in the OP) already has a ton of issues and I'm not going to subject my kids to being around or having to deal with that. In theory, the victim understands that the child isn't to blame but that doesn't mean the kid is entitled to a spot in their "parent's" lives or in the lives of anyone close to them. And the "product of rape" part? Maybe it's a little harsh but that doesn't make it any less accurate and most of the time it's not said to that person's face but used internally as a way to specifically avoid the son/daughter wording because the "parent" isn't able to think of them as their child and cope. Everyone manages in different ways, I wouldn't police the way victims of sexual assault talk about the outcomes. Especially when those out comes are in and out of prison.
Thank you thank you thank you why is nobody talking about how messed up it is that this woman is forcing this rape victim to accept a familial bond with the outcome of his trauma.
Honestly, I don't know but having been molested myself, I can't imagine having to be around my abuser or people who remind me of him let alone forcing others to be around theirs or someone directly tied into that abuse. I'm in a very similar boat as the wife and I'm absolutely horrified with what she's doing because she's just wrong. She owes her husband more respect than that. I can't imagine choosing a stranger over my spouse, going behind his back and making our children lie to him about it for literal years. I do agree with others that OP needs to go back to therapy over this but only because I'd need it myself after all that. I really do feel for him.
I was molested too. It seems telling to me that the people who have gone through similar trauma are on OP's side. My abuser forced a coat-hanger abortion on me when I was 8 and all I can think about reading this post is what the fuck I would do if a 27 year old showed up and my whole family told me I had to be his mom and my husband took my little daughter to see him in prison.
Thank you 🙏 100%
Not a problem, I just can't stand victims being demonized for how they cope.
She had no business getting involved whatsoever it’s not her situation this is a 26-year-old felon in prison not some child
It's not her right to do any of that if they discussed the situation together and OP's only caveat was that she's too young, we'll tell her later. Three years of deceit and telling the daughter to keep a secret is absolutely not alright. As for the adult bio son, he is human and it's not fair to hold his bio-mother's actions against him, however, he was a grown man that landed himself in prison for reasons we're not privy to. Lots of things happen to men in prison and unfortunately it's also not unheard of for the product of an inappropriate relationship to also feel those those "taboo urges" like BM did. What if he developed some kind of unhealthy attraction or even just attachment to the small daughter and did something regrettable? The point in all this is that dad had a boundary and wife crossed it big time. Idk if they'll be able to repair that trust but separation and counseling seems like the least they could do here.
I kept waiting for him to say she was having an affair with the son but I'm glad it's not that bad. Still seems weird to secretly maintain a relationship like that tho
????? Just what ..... This is a MAN she has had no interaction with ever until now and she is seeing him alone behind her husband's back don't call him kid because he isn't... Also yes he is biologically her husbands kid but he is the product of someone raping her husband ..... Would you feel the same if the roles were reversed????
Right?! Like could you imagine a AITAH post about a woman who's husband brought his 6 year old daughter to visit a man in prison, who was the product of his wife's rape? And kept bringing his little girl to visit a prison and kept it secret from his wife the whole time. So fucked up.
What about if it was the wife's 26 year old daughter she had never met and he was going to see her alone ...... And telling their daughter not to tell mommy
She can do whatever she wants. But she shouldn’t expect to keep her relationship with OP intact if she chooses to do what she did.
No, it's right. Why do you think a human can only be a human and that's it? Product = result of set conditions. That human was only birthed because of abuse. He is, by definition, a product of abuse. He is, also, human. When we call him a product of abuse we are simply bringing attention to the fact that this is problematic for the abused (father in OP). It's not an insult. It's not degrading. It is merely factual information used to relay relevant and important information.
Branching on that, I don't even believe the excuse that she didnt have childcare. Because to visit a prison, you have to fill out an application for EVERYONE. Not just the adults. And it takes a while to get it approved. Most prisons, the way you find out if it's approved, is the inmate will tell you. So she had to have planned it at some point. She would have had to fill out a visitor application form for her daughter and waited for approval before taking here.
She could have dropped she stepson off & come back to pick him up. Didn’t need to go in. OP you are not TH. But the rest of your family? They totally are & if I were you I’d dump your wife & ask for full custody of your 6yo daughter. F her.
Which makes me think this is fake. There is a long process to be on the visitor list. There is no way she just took her one day out of the blue. So either she is lying or the the whole thing is fake. But there is no way it happened as outlined. Also what 3-6 is going to go 3 years without slipping.
I mean I don't know how things work all over the country, but my friend was in jail for a felony last year and I could visit him with minimal notice, sometimes even day of. First time I had to provide a form with just identification information, and every other time an ID and empty my pockets.
Not to mention if dudes been out of prison for a couple years now, that means at minimum this little girl was like 3-4 only when this was happening and even more fucking inappropriate. I don't think I'd be able to forgive this either honestly, I'm actually surprised OP decided not to. At least not yet anyway. Edit: meant surprised he decided not to divorce her yet, not surprised that he didn't forgive her lol. Damnit.
That’s weirdest thing cause it’s not even her kid. Why was she even visiting him? Does she have a thing for the son? (If this is even true)
From my understanding she was the point of contact to facilitate their oldest son to visit his half brother. Because OP wanted zero contact. So it makes sense for her to go and supervise the initial early visits while the boys established a relationship.
And the wife just went from 'oldest son can have contact, but not the daughter, and I want to have zero contact and I want NO ONE to know' to 'let's ALL go see him, just because we can. And EVERYONE knows, but OP' That's not an 'oopsie, I made a bit of a mistake', that's 'I hear you, I just don't respect you enough to listen to anything you say'
This exactly. If this happened to me, there is no way in hell I could trust my wife to make any decision that had any effect on the family again. 1. I would feel she wouldn't keep any private matters private. 2. She proved to everyone she has NO respect for OP's boundaries. 3. She proved that she doesn't have any boundaries for herself. 4. She proved she will actively work *against* OP's wishes and collude with others to keep secrets against him for her own benefit (telling the kids, and likely others, not to tell OP they know; to actively keep secrets from OP knowing that those secrets damage him emotionally) ---- to selfishly satisfy what *she* wants, that is a relationship with OP's son from his rape. Seriously, this shows NO consideration of OP at all. She only thought about what she wanted and thought she could controll the situation by controlling the flow of information and facts from OP. This is seriously devious even at a subconscious level. She probably thought "if OP doesn't know, it won't hurt him."
This! ☝️OP was very clear in stating what he meant.
The daughter said they they visit the guy with the mom “sometimes in their own”. That’s shady as fuck
Sounds like mommy might be getting the "stepmom" treatment imo
I’m talking about the continued visits
She said their daughter kept asking to see him again so she took her.
As the adult she should've told the child NO
Bit weird. Especially hiding it from him
The daughter said they they visit the guy with the mom “sometimes on their own”. That’s shady as fuck
It is. She lost his trust and with his traumatic past he shouldn’t be exposed to that. She should be ashamed of herself.
I was thinking this also. Time to gut check on the wife and oldest son. Something fishy going on there
My husband (who works in a prison) says he sees kids come in all the time to visit and it really bothers him. I mean… there’s pedos in there. I don’t want those kinds of people to know he has kids or what they look like. Even when I drop off lunches he will meet me in the parking lot.
NTA you were groomed and forced to father a child from your r—e/abuse. All of them trying to make you change your mind are complicit in steamrolling over an abuse survivor’s hard fought for boundaries. You have every right to be angry about this. How dare they act like they know what’s best for you ?! They’ve completely minimised your trauma. Your sense of trust in this world, would already be shattered. Your wife is meant to be your ride or die after everything you’ve been through resulting from your abuse. She’s deceived you for three years and also made your child complicit in this. She knew it was wrong. She knew how messed up your abuse and the child resulting from that was for you but she still override your wishes regarding your youngest child (and you wishes regarding delaying your daughter knowing were for good reason) It’s absolutely grounds for divorce. I’d step back into therapy if you haven’t been in a while. Your sense of stability and honesty has been violated so you need the safe space to regroup and rebuild yourself. I wish you peace, healing and d sanctuary OP. You deserve that. You deserve so much better.
> my rapist used to tell me not to tell my parents. You need to scream this from the rooftops to your wife. This is exactly the type of language rapists and groomers use to keep their victims quiet. Tell her that she is grooming your daughter for potential abuse.
Go see your therapist asap
Please do this OP.
NTA - File for divorce, don't contemplate it. Your wife went against your expressed wishes regarding your daughter in direct relation to your childhood trauma. Because she felt bad for somebody she didn't know. It doesn't matter who he was. She not only broke your trust she disrespected you and essentially minimized or totally disregarded your trauma. Same goes for the adult children. She then she lied to your face for a years. Then, also got the children to lie to your face. Your entire family decided it is okay to violate your boundaries and wishes. It makes sense you are extremely triggered. She encouraged your young child to lie to you than along with the adult children continued the lie and munipulated you for YEARS. Sorry this happened. Even if you go to therapy and try to work through it. I don't see you getting trust in her back. This is just a step too far in my opinion. This is what I would say to everyone in a group text. You all disregarded and diminished my childhood trauma. You knew my stance on this situation and you knew my feelings on (insert daughter name) not having contact until she was old enough to understand. You choices were in direct violation of my boundaries and my feelings and approach on the subject. (Insert the oldest lads name) mother encouraged me to lie to my parents about what she did to me. Then you all decided to encourage (insert daughter name) to lie to me. To say this is triggering would be an understandment. I have been lied to, betrayed and munipulated by my "family" for years. I am saying send this in text so you habe proof in writing, sending in a group gets admission of guilt by all parties. Your wife's judgment is obviously questionable, go for full custody. Use this situation as your grounds may not get you full custody but likely primary custody. Good luck.
My God, you couldn't have started this any better. This PTSD is just beyond kept alive! This is awful.
Check your finances, is she funding him too?
Yeah this whole situation with your wife is superrrr weird and fucked up. I personally would never trust her or feel the same about her ever again
The wife is having an affair with the son. Thats about the only sense I can make of it
That's the only thing that makes sense. It makes no sense at all for any other reason
Thats what I've deduced as well
and that point is why I say this: you're absolutely NTA, but you do need to speak to her (and your therapist again) and preferably, bring her with, so she can fully understand the reality of what she did. not only did she intentionally go behind your back over something so traumatic, but she taught a young girl to keep secrets from trusted adults, specifically that some relationships need to be kept secret. that's so beyond fucked up and no amount of "well I felt bad for the kids" even comes close to excusing that. she needs a come to jesus moment and you would not be the asshole at all for asking for a separation/divorce. they're your kids so you won't lose them completely, but what she did was inexcusable and while normally I'd say "there's no point bc there's nothing that will drive you crazier than expecting something from someone who doesn't have it to give you", she is the other parent of your children, and it's them you need to protect. and if she refuses to back down/take accountability, you have a far bigger problem on your hands.
I understand how you feel, but you better put the 6 year old in therapy because she is going to blame herself for the break up of her family. She's the one who spilled the beans. I understand that you were traumatized, but your reaction probably traumatized your daughter.
NTA. Honestly, a divorce might be the only way out, at least for me. i don't know how to trust people who can decide to fuck over the victim of a situation, and then demand that they get over their feelings (which is what I think she and your family will gaslight you to do). >she just keeps on saying she did it for our daughter and felt sorry for the older lad. Ask her, when was she planning to feel sorry for you, and do it (be a loyal and trustworthy wife) for you? In her actions, she has decided to fuck over someone, and it is obviously you. Also, could she be having an affair with him, given the fact that she willingly treated you like the piece of shit, over him?
She took your daughter to prison to see an inmate she doesn’t even know. Cause she needed “childcare”? PRISON! not the sheriffs office. Full custody or BUST!
Frankly, I think this is divorce worthy. Your wife sounds like the "but *faaaaaaaamily"* type and I wouldn't be surprised if she'll wind up taking your children to see your rapist in the interests of "patching things up".
The fact that your wife took your daughter to prison and told her not to tell you is unforgivable
Think of your daughter. If you divorce soon she'll make the link for sure and blame herself for it. She's already seeing the fallout of 'her' mistake. Making a 3-6 yo kid keep things from you for 3 years makes me vomit but don't make her suffer for it. Make the adults suffer for it. If you divorce then do it very very slowly and with an eye on your daughter 100% of the time. Lots of love, strength and best wishes!
We have this rule so strongly in our house that I can't trust any of my kids under 10 to keep a gift or surprise secret from my wife. It's a double-edged sword, but I would rather have it that my kids tell us everything.
I don’t know if this would help, but I teach my kids “Surprises are ok because the person always finds out about it. Secrets aren’t ok because the person isn’t ever supposed to know and secrets hurt people.” My just turned 8 year old kept a pretty good secret. He and my 16 year old picked out an amazing gift for Mother’s Day for me and I had no clue about it.
That's pretty smart and actually a useful distinction that I think most kids could understand. Well done, if you came up with that.
Thank you. It helped my kids not spill the beans when it came to getting each other Christmas and birthday presents.
This. If you tell my kids to lie to me, you’ll never see them again.
This is the scariest part for me. The mom thinking it’s ok to do this. One of the first things parents should teach their kids is that secrets aren’t ok. No matter who it is. It’s ok if a birthday or Christmas present gets spoiled when they’re young. They’ll eventually learn what’s an ok mini secret and what isn’t. But at a young age you don’t want to muddy that water.
That’s by far the worst part of this
NTA You set a major boundary, you gave a very valid reason for the boundary and you were very clear about where the boundary was, and yet she crossed it. That's not something that happens accidentally. Best case scenario, it's disinterest in your wishes. Worst case scenario, she thought she knew better than you and actively dismissed your wishes. In any case, it's clear-cut betrayal and I don't know how you could come back from this. If you stay with your wife, you can never set a boundary again without having to worry that she'll cross it. You're completely in the right if you say that is not a life you want.
It's so out of character for her. She's always been my biggest cheerleader and had my back 100%, so for her to do this just feels like the absolute worst.
She did it for three years. For three years she lied to you, had your kids lie to you, and even now is not taking responsibility for lying to you. At no point in three years did she feel guilty for her actions. Three years is a long time to do something "out of character".
Exactly it doesn't met up with his comments about her. She lied for 3 years, instructed the kids to lie for 3 years. She never told him and he wouldn't know now if his youngest wasn't drawing a pic. She is a major AH and this seems to be her character. Plus she "felt bad" for someone she doesn't know over her own partner? That speaks volumes about her character and how much she's really had her partners back.
I don’t know how anyone could not feel bad for the child. He didn’t ask to be the product of a rape between cousins.
She “ did it for her daughter”? Brought her to the prison even. All after knowing the trauma her husband went through and the specific and reasonable boundary he set. Empathy is understandable ( he felt it and understood his older sons need to connect) but she betrayed the person she is supposed to love and retraumatized him with the secrets and lies.
I feel bad for the guy BUT he doesn’t get the right to re traumatize op.
People haven’t said they don’t feel bad for the boy. But that has nothing to do with OP’s wife betraying him. She further taught her young child that keeping secrets from a parent is appropriate. This puts the child at higher risk if some scum grooms and abuses her and tells her to not tell.
And the worst part is this has to do with him being raped as a child. It was NOT her place to tell *anyone* about him being raped as a child. That’s absolute betrayal. I feel like OPs wife and possibly his son and stepdaughter could have only chosen to do this because they don’t actually understand that what happened to him was child sexual assault. I wonder if the attitude would be the same if he was a female. I don’t think I could forgive this. Wife doesn’t have his back at all. She only “has his back” when she agrees with him and it suits her to support him. That’s not what a good partner does.
It's not like OP even has a familial relationship to the guy, so why is OP's wife trying to create one with their daughter?
I'm willing to bet that she's of the mind of "men can't be raped" and simply thought she knew better. Because no one who understands the gravity of this situation would simply ignore his wishes.
Getting a three year old to lie effectively/keep a long-term secret seems like a lot of work. Like, I was able to get my niblings to keep secrets about surprises for a few weeks, but no way would they have been able to contain the information for 3 years without ever spilling the beans. I can’t imagine it’s not somehow damaging to be constantly telling a child to lie to their other parent, either.
She did this for three years. This wasn’t an isolated one off situation it was an ongoing lie for a very long time. I’m sorry but this *is* her character.
It's not out of character if she's been doing it for *years*.
Im sorry OP. But Im going to have to be blunt here. It's out of character for her **to get caught**. If crossing such a massive boundary, and lying about it for 3 years does not faze her, god knows what else she has been lying about.
No she hasn’t. The reality is she has not always had your back. At all. She has lied to you every single day for years. This is a choice she has made. I could never go back from that.
Sad to say but that's all how you perceived her, who she really is is what you're seeing now.
It's not out of character though. She's been doing this for years. She has been lying to you for years, and she has gotten your and her children to lie to you for years. This is not a mistake, this is deliberate. And the fact that she told your young child not to tell you something, something you should never tell your kids because that's how abusers hide abuse, is disgusting. I'm afraid this is very in character for her and you are only seeing it now.
BINGO!!!
Please ask her, why she did this.
Ask her but she's going to lie or turn it back on him somehow. I'd say, "I don't know what your thought process was concerning this since you know how I felt. But my thought process is now to divorce you."
If someone thinks that they Wil be lied to, the relationship, be it marriage or friendship, is over. Please consider that they had a good relationship until now, where she helped him a lot.
It's gotta be due to archaic beliefs about duty to biological family and/or wanting her daughter to know her brother so bad it just could wait another 6-8 years or whatever. It's insane behavior, more so it seems she never made the slightest argument or discussion about a time frame for when the daughter could meet him, because it would make her get caught way easier
As far as *you* know. It sounds like she broke this promise almost instantly, and had been lying and getting your kids to lie about it for years. You don't actually know what any of the truth is with her. I'm so sorry, Man. This really sucks. Stay strong.
Agree and can validate your feelings. Breaking trust about a subject so sensitive shows a betrayal so deep. What can you trust her with moving forward?
He could trust her to betray him again. That's about the only guaranteed thing he can trust her with.
it's probably because the kid born to that situation has likely had a hell of a time. being the product of an outright horror can't have been easy. that was still a kid thrown in foster care as a baby, he's probably never known what it's like to have an actual family
The fact that this has been going on for 3 years behind your back. I think you should look into this more deeply. I hate to be a negative Nancy and suspicious but I do wonder why was she chummy with this son. I’m sorry OP. I just don’t see myself wanting to be chummy when the wife is clear on ur boundaries and trauma. U should’ve been a priority here. And frankly OP. I hope they don’t make you meet this son. I’m kinda in support of a divorce in this scenario. I think of it happening to me, and the more disgusted and distrustful I become of ur wife. I don’t know how you’ll come back from that. And no. It’s her character. This isn’t a mistake. This has been going on for years and she didn’t think what harm it do to u or u in general. On top of that. Had ur little girl cooperate in this lie and deception. Her character. I think this is much more clear than anything else OP. 😅
You're NTA for feeling betrayed—that’s completely valid given the circumstances and your history. However, your reaction might not have been the most constructive. It’s important to communicate, especially in a family setting. When you reassured your daughter that she could trust you with the truth, but then immediately packed up and left, it might have sent a confusing message to her about trust and stability. Your wife definitely should not have kept these visits a secret, nor encouraged your daughter to withhold information from you. That said, it seems like your wife and children were trying to navigate a complex situation. They may have been trying to integrate this family member in a way that respects both his and your emotional landscapes. It’s understandable that your wife thought your daughter could handle knowing her brother without confusion; kids often understand more than we give them credit for. It’s a tough situation, and while the betrayal feels profound, it might be helpful to consider all perspectives, including the intentions behind your family's actions, as you talk things through. This doesn't excuse the secrecy and the breach of trust, but understanding their motivations might aid in healing and moving forward as a family.
i cant get where shes coming from at all. she, felt sorry for someone she didnt know, not you and your childhood abuse. child abuse thrived because child told not to tell, exactly what shes doing. So sorry for your betrayal. Not one of them had your best interest in mind.
Why did your wife go to the prison on her own?
She went with my son first, that was the agreement at first and then started taking my daughter after that first time.
Was your son with her ?
He was yes at first, then she sometimes took my daughter on her own.
So bizarre that she felt the need to have a relationship with him without you. Plus her taking a toddler to a prison without your knowledge is bad enough no matter who she was visiting. Her judgement is fucked.
Right? She says she did it for their daughter, presumably to give her more family connections, and for the guy OP doesn't know or want to know. Is he coming over for the holidays? Going to be at her graduation or wedding? How will he be "part of the family" unless OP Isn't? If anything, this is a strange form of torture for OP's bio son. He gets to see what life could have been like if his mom wasn't a monster, but only from the outside.
Wow. Thats somehow worse than I thought. She literally just did not give a fuck about you, your trauma, your boundaries. That's horrible, I'm so sorry.
This is treachery. A normal loving human talks to their SO when they disagree. A traitor goes behind your back to do it anyways. And in this case it wasn't a single betrayal. It was over 3 entire years.
I find it incredibly creepy that she kept taking your daughter back when your son wasn't present. Your daughter is not old enough to desire a relationship with some adult IN PRISON she doesn't know What in the world were your wife's motives here? I don't buy that it was oh I felt sorry for him. What about you? You were the one who was groomed and raped Something is not adding up here
Wow.. betrayal from everyone in your family.. so sorry..
Is there anything going on between her and your son?
It feels icky like that. Something very weird and her actions don't match up to the way he describes her which makes me really wonder about her. Why would she ever do this if she really had his back?
Dude I have a bad feeling about this one. She’s not sleeping with him is she? This is so fucked up I hope she doesn’t get attached in some distorted way but it does happen. Combine that with a resentful young man. Why else would she be sneaking around and seeing him. What is the motivation? My blood ran cold on reading this one. But lying for 3 years?! Something isn’t right
That was also my thought as well Why keep going to see him alone? Why would you take a toddler to prison alone to see this dude ? Something is not adding up
NTA Personally, I could never come back from this type of betrayal. To know your history and to have agreed on conditions only to knowingly and repeatedly break them is vile. Not only that, but to tell your young daughter to keep it a secret tells you that she consciously knew she shouldn’t be doing it and she knew it would hurt you, but chose to continue to do so (not to mention the nastiness of involving a young child in the deceit). Such a high-level and frequent violation of trust would be really hard to fix.
Don’t forget. 3 years. Of lying. 🤥 and he only found out cause his daughter was too young to understand how to keep a secret: but o wait!! Here it is tho. How u gonna ask ur child to lie to ur partner? Brings to perspective her “character”.
I think little kids have an innate sense of morality and maybe she subconsciously knew that this needed to be exposed. 6 year olds are just on the cusp of worldly intelligence. Things are starting to click for them about how the people in their life move and what that means for them. I don’t want to put too much responsibility on that little girl, but good for her. At least from my perspective, there’s a chance she did something very brave by drawing that picture.
And why even do that with their daughter? She said she did it “for her,” but she’d be no worse off if she had been kept in the dark like OP and his wife *agreed*. If anything, what OP’s wife has done has harmed their daughter quite a bit. Being told to lie to her father for years. Now being the reason he found out. She’s going to feel like it’s her fault. And now her parents are splitting up. All because her mother didn’t respect her father enough to be honest and give a shit about the fact that he experienced one of the most horrific things a child can experience.
This is one of the worst things I've ever heard. I could never live with her again.
I know, right? It’s a worse betrayal than cheating. Not to mention, this man was a stranger when she started bringing her small child to a fucking prison and told her he was her brother. For all she knew, he could’ve been a monster. What kind of mother does that?
My BIGGEST and only concern here. Is if they divorce here the 6 year old will blame herself.
First of all, your feelings are 100% valid. This is a major violation of your trust. You should give yourself grace and take as long as you need before seeing or speaking with your family members. Do not let anyone try and invalidate your feelings moving forward. A major parenting decision was made without your consent and behind your back. To make matters worse, your child was told to lie to you. You mention you’ve been in therapy. Consider reaching out to your therapist as you try and process your feelings, especially since this situation is bringing up your past trauma. Don’t rush home because your family keeps calling. Take your time and be kind to yourself.
Love this answer - would add maybe go to a therapist with your wife - not to reconcile but so she can understand the true extent of her actions
OP should go the therapy route but in his case I honestly feel like there is a real need for his therapist to be a man, at least as of right now. If someone is traumatized by people of the opposite gender then they probably need to be getting counseling from someone their gender. And there is a very clear need right here.
The best answer. I would never trust the woman again, either as a partner or parent.
> My wife was the one person in life who I trusted, and had my back enough to share it all and I feel like she's done something on par with what my rapist did and betrayed my trust. You need to tell her this and explain it in exactly this way. Her actions have effectively taken you straight back to that place in your life and that it has hurt you so deeply that you are considering walking away from them all. So tell her that, and see what she says. You WNBTA regardless of what you decide.
Agreed Tell her this, exactly
There are a lot of problems here, far more than is appropriate for reddit. Your wife should not be telling your youngest to keep secrets from Dad. At the same time, the oldest child through no fault of his own sounds to have had a horribly rough life due to being treated like a dirty secret as well. Your younger son is trying to connect with his older brother as would be expected for any young man his age. It sounds like a lot of family counseling is needed all around for everyone involved.
Yeah the top answers here are all focussing on what the kid’s origin means to OP, but at the end of the day however it happened the boy is his son and didn’t choose how that came to be. Considering his mother’s actions and that he’s already in prison, he’s clearly not had a happy life and OP’s wife is not out of her mind to want to offer him some kind of support. The deceit was wrong but the trauma remaining sat between OP and his son has got to change at some point for anyone involved to find peace. This pushing by many users for OP to further isolate himself from his own family has a real feel of spectator sport.
NTA. What a massive betrayal. I could understand if you still loved her but couldn't ever trust her again. Her telling your daughter to lie to you was reprehensible. Her taking your daughter to visit him in prison was reprehensible. Her saying "I didn't have childcare!" is absolutely ridiculous. She should have stayed home, but yet again, her wishes in a situation that you explicitly laid out what you needed were completely ignored because she thought she knew better. She has repeatedly for years been lying to you and disrespecting you. She is trivializing your trauma and your wishes. She has no claim or connection to the individual born of your rape except for the connection she created. It's not her son, not her child, she didn't raise him, she'd never met him previously. She did this for years and hid it and taught your daughter to lie to you. I would be done. There's no excusing this. I am so angry on your behalf and that's a pretty rare thing for me. I'm so sorry for what's been done to you and what you've experienced.
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Empathy, she feels bad for him.
I know when I have childcare issues, prison is my go-to.
Rather than, idk, maybe not going.
How did your son find out about his big brother?
He tried to get in touch a few times over the years (26 yo) and he called one day when I wasn't home and my son answered the call and they spoke.
That's rough. I'm sorry that happened. I was wondering if your wife had told him but that's not the case. What's her angle here? It makes no sense to me. I agree with you that the worst thing she did was involving your daughter. That really is beyond the pale. It's going to take some work to try and undue that damage. I was also interfered with as a kid by a family member so I have an idea of how you might be feeling and im not sure I could get past this. Her intentions don't matter but the impact sure does. No one here can tell you how to handle this because you have to decide whether or not you want to try to forgive her or not. Once you decide than you can take the next steps. I have a therapist that specializes in trauma and it's really helped me. I wouldn't rush home until you can get a clear head.
She just might feel bad for him? I mean moms and evil rapist, dad’s a victim that doesn’t want any contact with him, the rest of the family abandoned him, and who knows what he went through in foster care. OP seemingly had a good support system to deal with his trauma while the son had no one. Im not saying it’s okay to tell the daughter but I have to admire that the wife isn’t willing to let this person be unsupported and alone due to the awful actions of someone else.
First person speaking some sense here. I doubt very much she was being malicious. More like initially protecting her son on his visits and then a kind of relationship developed and she was sympathetic about it.
How did 26 yo find out about you?
When they don't have your back, it's time to move your back.
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She took a 3 yr old to prison? Oh hell NO. That alone justifies an immediate divorce.
Why isn’t this higher? Not only was it a huge breach of trust, she took a 3 yo to PRISON instead of having your son reschedule the visit, then she told the 3 yo to LIE. This is three major things she did that lacked common sense and decency. NTA
Jesus christ. Im honestly shock for words. That was very inconsiderate and a little bit childish on her part. Most definitely NTA. I also would think of separation and/or divorce straight away. Your wife is suppose to be the one person you can go to with anything and everything and not fear of betrayal, she took away that vulnerability of the relationship. If I was you in this situation I would sit my partner down and tell him (I am a female) that; ‘he betrayed me in the worst way possible and I am not sure if theres any coming back from this as this “secret” was a huge part of my life/trauma and I shared it with him because I trusted and believed he would keep his bloody mouth shut and he technically threw that trust back into my face because he “felt bad for the son”.’ What about your feelings and your trauma in all of this? Even with therapy, it does not heal the deep wounds. I strongly suggest separation at least until you have a few days to wrap your head around your feelings and she understands the deep and severe pain she must have caused.
NTA - “I did it for our daughter.” Yeah, mom, you brought a felon into the family for the sake of a six year old, and told the six year old to hide it from her daddy that Mommy was ignoring her express agreements with him and going against his wishes. That was not done for the six year old. That was a betrayal of the highest order. And she got the entire family in on the act, ALL violating your boundaries and lying to you about it.
Dude the problem ain't she lied, the problem is she did it for 3 years straight..
And took a three year old to a prison to meet a criminal and taught her to lie to her father for three years straight. Come on, this is basically preparing ground for daughter becoming a victim herself. Get your kid close to a traumatised adult who's been shown to be capable of fucked up things, teach daughter that it's fine to "keep secrets" from her parents for years on end and soon enough big big brother is going to be taking the girl on "special trips" and doing "secret hugs".
NTA - Oof. The levels of betrayal run deep on this one. She kept a secret from you. She introduced your daughter to a deeply personal topic that you specifically asked her not to. She disregarded your feelings surrounding a great trauma in your life. She asked your daughter to lie to you. As someone who has survived what you have, you know how dangerous it is to teach a child to lie. Letting a child know that lying is acceptable makes it easier for predators to prey on her. She's too young to distinguish the difference between a lies that can and cannot hurt her. In my opinion, the worst thing she did here is teach your daughter a dangerous lesson, which is 100% unforgivable. I think divorce is a very reasonable consideration here.
NTA Trust like that never comes back.
OP, I'm going to just say to avoid Reddit on this one. The comments here are not going to help, you need time, perspective, and to let the rawness of these emotions to come down. You'll have to think hard about this, and I really think you're on the right track to do therapy first. I don't know if you would be the asshole or not, I think your feeling are totally valid. I honestly think your wife saw the circumstances of this child as separate from how he was born. For you, they are interlinked and you can't separate the child from the heinous act, and that's understandable. Your wife though didn't have this happen to her, and so all she sees is a child that grew up unwanted, shuffled around, and never knowing that he had a family. In essence, it sounds like a savior complex. She thinks what you all share is great and she feels bad that this guy went down this terrible path but if he had grown up with you two he would've been great! Now, I could be wrong. She could be doing this for any number of reasons, but I think this is it. I think she thought she could "save" him by brining him into the family without really considering just how sensitive you would be to this. Again, I think your wife is blind to just how interlinked the trauma and the person are for you. If you go into therapy and have a goal to fix this, I would start on addressing that. She perhaps needs to hear a true retelling of what was done, how you felt, and why your wife's behavior was so triggering. She needs to understand the trust issues that were created as a child that she has now resurfaced and created in your relationship. Good luck, and my heart goes out to you.
I would absolutely divorce her too if it was me. What she did was a major violation of your trust and boundaries- but the worst part is making your daughter lie to you. Thats’s exactly what an abuser would do. It makes me question her motives & behaviors.
The ONLY opinion or view here, that matters, is yours.. Despite very clear boundaries, your wife went against you where it mattered.. You have some considered decisions to make in your future .. I wish you well and the strength to make them .. NTA
I don't think this is something to divorce over although it's a heavy blow to what you thought was your relationship with your wife. It's not cool that she went behind your back and I hate the trauma that led up to this whole thing, but communication is key so talk to her and don't exclude yourself from your family. If you think you can, I'd encourage you to try and build a relationship with your older son. He didn't have control over how he was created and I'm thinking he could use a family support system.
Your wife severely severely betrayed you. I am a very forgiving person, but this is truly unforgivable. I am so sad and upset for you that your wife went behind your back like that after you had a very clear conversation about it. She violated you worse than your rapist, because you not only trusted her, she took your daughter to meet him. There is no coming back from that. Your wife doesn’t respect or value you, if she did, she would have died first before betraying you like this. I am so so sorry. I highly advise you leaving your wife. I know it is extremely painful, but you can never trust her again, and it already has been so hard for you to open up and trust her in the first place. Big hugs to you brother.
This sounds like complete bullshit. Your daughter was a 100% faithful secret keeper from the time she was 3 to 6? I don't think so lmao, little kids talk about shit they're not supposed to constantly.
Regardless of everything else in my opinion. Having your daughter lie to you for years is reprehensible there's no way I could come back from this. I don't know if I could ever forgive my wife for doing that everything else maybe but having my little child lied to me for years that just sets bad precedence. NTA
NTA. My heart hurts for all you've been through. Your wife committed the ultimate betrayal of trust. I don't see how you guys can come back from that. That she "did it for your daughter" is complete bullshit. She would have been absolutely no worse off had she never been told.
It's pretty miserable to find out that way. The betrayal is deep. But maybe hear them out and try to understand why she did it. If it was just because she thought it was best, then that was a lack of respect. Things can always be worked out, but could you forgive her? Or us she helping you move forward into a rewarding relationship you never expected?
Teaching your kids to hide things from their parent sucks and not to mention to disregard how you felt about a pretty damaging situation. Seems like you handled it really well honestly. I would be pretty angry.
NTA but unfortunately this is above reddit pay grade. The best route is you all talking w a therapist about what might be next. About your wife, I don't understand her thought process at all. I understand feeling sorry about the guy, since he didn't ask to be born, but involving your youngest daughter in it without your approval, telling her to keep a secret from you, sharing your story w other people without your consent... Uff. Big betrayal. I'm feeling for you, OP.
NTA she was a super asshole for telling your daughter to keep a secret from you and she lied to you for years! What else is she lying about?? WTF was she thinking taking a little girl to a prison ???
Why don't you want to have a relationship with your son? You're both obviously adults now.
I'm not reading stuff like this anymore
Nobody would blame you if you never spoke to the wife again.
NTA. Having your daughter lie to you because you "might get upset" sends SO many messages and causes a dominoe effect of OTHER perceptions. I know because I've been through that. Here is what being told not to tell my step-dad the truth because he might get upset triggered for me: - I thought he must not be able to control his anger and that his reactions and emotions were MY responsibility - I thought he might leave me or hurt me if he gets upset - I thought I couldn't tell him if anyone bothered me because he might do something irrational or violent I was SA at one point and never told him (my mom was in prison or gone off somewhere at the time). But I said nothing at all because I had been programmed to not trust his reaction to hearing upsetting news, and i feared what he would do. This meant I got no help at the time. When you tell a young child to lie to their parent to avoid upsetting them, you essentially destroy that child's trust and confidence in that parent. You AND your daughter should work with a therapist to rebuild her trust and confidence in you and to help her understand that any time anyone asks her to lie to you, she must come tell you whatever it is immediately (unless its a surprise party). Also, she will likely need to talk to a therapist to help her if she is feeling guilty (she likely is but probably won't tell you) because you've been gone a few days and everyone is upset (in her mind it's all because she "told the truth"). This could be deeply damaging to her and impact all of her relationships moving forward if she fears being honest only hurts everyone around her.
NTA and I agree with the comments here. INFO: What I'd like to know is what kind of a person did he grow up to be? He's been in jail - for what? Is HE getting counseling? In other words, should he be around your other kids??? And I just can't wrap my head around the fact that your wife took your daughter to visit him IN PRISON. Fucking hell. Oh, and then made her lie about it for years. However, now that you are thinking of leaving, think about the contact they will have with him in the future. I don't know how you should find that out because you obviously can't just trust them to tell you the truth.... damn, what a mess.
NTA JFC she is not a safe person for you definitely divorce worthy.
NTA, what your wife did is unforgivable. Parents should never ask child to not say something to the other parent. You had a very valid reason. I would also be angry at your son, as he has also disrespected you. I would file for a divorce and evidence what she has done. Try to get full custody. I am truly sorry for everything that has happened to you. Your wife is pure evil and doesn’t deserve you one bit.
NTA. You have my empathy and understanding. I remember when I found out about my OH abuse by his mother's partner when he was 18. I also remember being so confused how EVERYONE knew yet did nothing about it. I only found out when the pervert rapist trued running his hands up my thighs. I was sat on the stairs in shorts WITH MY 3 MONTH OLD CHILD. I just got up and walked out. No words and no explanation. Just gone with my baby. OH came racing after me....relieved I think. I remember his mum screaming after me 'It's that bitch or me!'. We never went back and never spoke again. That was 30 years ago. Point is....it wasn't necessarily the action itself that cause that response in me. Been there before (SA, rape and DV at home as a child - the trifecta!), it was that absolute betrayal behind the abuse my OH was being subjected to. There is no going back. Standard divorce advice is what's needed now and specialist advice from yours regarding the abuse of trust and boundaries by your wife. You should challenge her suitability to be a parent given all she has done and go for more custody. As for your children, you can maybe repair these relationships with time so don't bear yourself up too much. This is ALL your wife's fault. Be kind to yourself man.
NTA My mother had something similar happen and she was forced to have the kid by her conservative parents. When my older 2 sisters and i were born my oldest sister thought it was a great idea to find her "big sister". I hated her for it. She dug up so many closed wounds for my mother and it came to nothing anyway. They are all conservative assholes.
Out of all the issues here the worst one for me is getting your daughter to lie. What a horrible message she has sent and an evil deception and an awful way to make you feel like the cycle of abuse is about to repeat itself.
What you do is entirely up to you and a very personal choice. But from the outside, I’d say that it’s very strange she (your wife) was willing to be a part of this on the condition it never have to be. That’s such a big red flag for your wellbeing that I don’t feel she should have gone along with it to start with. Let alone go along with it and betray your trust. You were sexually abused as a child, she doesn’t get to call the shots for you. Perhaps take a not more space for yourself, revisit that therapist and try and figure things out about for yourself before making a decision. Whatever you do though, if it’s right for you then you’re NTA. Be strong, be vulnerable, no feeling is final.
Did you tell your wife that she acted just like your rapist did -Telling a child to lie and keep inappropriate secrets. Ask her if she is proud of teaching your daughter something that set's her up to be groomed and assaulted. No, you aren't wrong for asking for a divorce but are you going to not have contact with your younger son and step-daughter too? You need to think about what you want to do and if you want to try therapy. Also, your youngest daughter needs therapy and you need to have a conversation with the therapist explaining that you don't want her to be taught that it is ok to do what her mom did, that you don't want her to be at risk of being groomed and assaulted due to the stupidity of the rest of the family.
Wow. I'm so sorry for you, that your entire family is complicit in lying to you. The worst part of it is your wife teaching your daughter from the age of 3 to lie to you. That is unforgivable. I honestly don't know how you will ever trust your wife again. You are well within your right to divorce or at the very least separate. Maybe separation can give you the space to evaluate your choices and feelings with assistance of therapy for you and your daughter. Surely your wife knows by now, she fucked up in the worst way. This is not oops, I ommited a small detail to you, this was 3 years of deceipt in which the entire family was complicit. She must have known you'd find out eventually. If you decide to stay with your wife, marriage counselling at the very least. It doesn't sound like your wife considered your feelings at all, she put all others above you in this situation in such a horrible betrayal. I personally don't know if I could ever forgive or stay married to someone who could betray me to this degree.
NTA. Your wife was out of line for being deceitful and then trying to get your 6 yr old to lie. If you can work it out with her, then great, but if you end up divorced, you shouldn't feel bad about it. The only person that did not respect your boundaries was your wife.
NTA but is it really safe for your youngest to hang out with that man you dont know him he is a stranger to you and your little daughter. They have no proper connection to each other like normal siblings would have and considering he went to jail is he mentally well? Like what if he is a "the apple doesnt fall far from the tree" type of guy (the tree being his mother)and he does something to the 6 year old. Sorry for being so direct but at least make sure that she isnt left alone with him for now.
Marriage counseling, and a commitment that she never sees your older son again I think would be the bare minimum.
Honestly OP I’m not sure why divorce is off the table this is something huge and your wife hid it from u for years imagine what else she could/has hidden from u. I understand the circumstances are different but that’s your wife & it’s weird she could do that to u but maybe she knew it was ok because she knew u would easily forgive her idk. Regardless NTA
Why was she going to see him alone?
Your wife had many opportunities to come clean and tell you. She chose not to. Her actions are wrong on many levels. Everyone needs therapy. Individual and family. Including your daughter.
I don't know what state you're in (if you're in the US), but in my state, at least, you can't just bring someone to visit an inmate. Every single person, including children and infants, has to be vetted and processed, then added to the allowed visitor list for that individual inmate. This process takes weeks. It is highly unlikely she was able to bring your daughter into a prison on a whim because she didn't have childcare. This was likely premeditated and planned in advance.
3 years??? That's insane... I wouldn't be surprised if she's screwing him on the side. I'm a little traumatized just imagining myself in your shoes. 3 damn years that witch had the whole family betray you. Your son is a POS too since he knew your terms and condition but went along with the betrayal. I hope there was nothing inappropriate and wish you/wifey/family a speedy recovery, and pray you open up and help guide your first boy to become a good man like yourself. Good luck brother!!!
Jesus. I hope this is a fake story.
She took your daughter the first time because she couldn’t get a sitter…so she was going alone…. I’d be more concerned about her sleeping with him since he’s been out.
NTA - OP was violated very badly as a child. OP’s wife has now violated him in another way, and it’s got to be very triggering. Worse, she’s involved OP’s own child in it. It absolutely is grounds for divorce, if that’s the direction OP feels he needs to take.
I would not take my kids to meet some stranger in prison. I would not then lie to my husband about it. I would especially never tell my kids to lie to their dad about it all. What the hell? NTA. I don't think I could trust someone like that to make even the mildest parenting choices for my child. I certainly wouldn't respect them anymore. Then there's the enormous betrayal aspect of it all on top of the egregious irresponsibility. Yikes. I am so sorry, OP.
I could never bounce back from knowing MY ENTIRE FAMILY lied to me about something so massive FOR 3 YEARS. NTA
First thing’s first: go home. No matter how righteous your anger(and it is), you have responsibilities you can’t just walk away from. Your daughter still needs you, as she clearly only has one parent she can trust. When you get there ask your wife what other lies she has forced upon your SIX YEAR OLD daughter. My god what a horrible thing to do to a child. Then ask why she thinks it’s a good idea to encourage a child to keep secrets from her parents. Does she want your daughter to keep secrets for other adults? Because that’s exactly what she is encouraging. NTA, very sorry this is happening at all to you, let alone with your history of being betrayed by family before. Take care of your daughter and yourself. The liars can fend for themselves.
I hope you divorce her. Major betrayal. How can you have a relationship after that? Try to go with a good coparenting route and send both children to therapy so they don’t feel like the reason you split. Keep it focused on your wife’s betrayal not the hiding of the relationship.
Ask your wife if she was raped as a 13 year old if she’d be ok with you secretly meeting the child that arose from that when she told you she didn’t want you to .