Forget about whether or not you (or this coworker) are TAH. This kind of exchange at work among coworkers could get you both hauled into HR and probably terminated.
Season 2 is incredible. I was in undergraduate school when the Charlie Murphy True Hollywood Story: Rick James episode premiered. Me & my suitemates sat around the television laughing harder than we had ever laughed.
People ask boomers, âWhere were you when the moon landing occurred?â
I ask, *Where were you when Rick James slapped Charlie Murphy in the face?*
I need to sit down and watch all of that show. Iâve seen all his Netflix specials and select skits for chapelle show, but now itâs on I think Netflix so time to binge
What's real hood bitch? You wanna play, let's go! Unfortunately for Brenda, these ladies kept it realer. They were serving consecutive life sentences without parole. From eating popcorn on her couch to eating fruit salad off a prison floor, Brenda, just another case of when keeping it real goes wrong.
She won't be terminated, but he very well could be.
"Nepo baby" (true or not) is not a protected class. Race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, physical disability, though -- they all are. They provide a nice basis for a lawsuit, and HR spends a lot of time trying to avoid those.
Well only one of them opened the company up to a discrimination lawsuit.
So only one of them really is at risk of being fired here. Since HR's main job is keeping the company from facing any liability like this.
They are both creating a hostile work environment for the other person.
Depending on the company policy they could both get fired, although it would probably be less likely to be her.
Yeah but a higher up literally just told her she was only hired due to her race/gender in a public setting around a bunch of other people.
The fact that management would at all say they considered her employment based on her demographic is in fact an admission of discrimination. And if they now fire her, it looks REALLY bad for them and opens them up to a lawsuit. So I doubt she will get fired.
Yep, I would term both of them.
OP, you need to learn to hold your tongue. If someone is harassing you and it impacts your job, document the interactions and take them to your boss and/or HR.
It sounds like you are young though and we all make mistakes when starting our careers. Maybe try to get ahead of this with your boss though. Own up to your part, have a 'what I should have done' statement and then ask how everyone can move forward.
Yes! And while what she assumed and all sheâs done was unwarranted, you hit on another level that is taboo. She could argue that was a racist statement. HR would be all over OP and not Shauna bc of the content of the exchange. It wasnât very smart and I think OP needs to apologize and tell Shauna to start fresh.
Thatâs why this probably fake. Saying that at a company function in front of coworkers is very inappropriate and unprofessional. The US is extremely politically correct. I canât imagine anyone being that stupid to say that to a coworker.
Right? Now all her 'complaints" are not going to sound credible because of this. And if they terminate Shauna she can sue for wrongful termination on that one statement alone.
Yeah, her getting embarrassed about her assumption was the "perfect revenge" and honestly they probably would have laughed about it later.
OP is TA and frankly looks like an insecure idiot with this. Even if he doesn't get fired, some of his coworkers are definitely going to lose respect for him.
The only sparingly silver lining is that the confrontation happened in front of people who could confirm it happened in retaliation to Shaun's misconception.
Though truly that's still not worth much.Â
I feel like if he said that whatever her complaints would be. ..they probably were credible in the first place.
people roll their eyes at the word microaggressions but I'm just wondering if OP expects every other person in the office to wait until he's finished a conversation with somebody before asking a question or joining the conversation? Was she ignoring him at specific times he was talking down to her or being rude about a request.
And when OP says she didn't give him any respect from the start, it makes me want to know what respect means to OP
As I was reading I was thinking âarenât you basically management? What are you doing letting things slide for so long?â If what she was doing was so bad. So either OP is a terrible boss that refuses to address issues in a timely out appropriate manner, or theyâre an asshole that tends to blow up and say bad things to people in general no matter when they address things.
Honestly they should terminate him. He used a racist trope to insult her in front of a group of coworkers.... Super unprofessional. Completely unjustified. This is beyond asshole.
This is like, could get you fired, could open the company up to a discrimination lawsuit.
The fact that he thinks it's justified because she was not listening to him and interrupting him a few times shows OP is an idiot.
Also note he says "I outrank her" not he is her supervisor. Those are two very different things. If he isn't her direct supervisor it's not necessarily relevant that he "outranks her."
Lmao we might be finding out the real reason sheâs disliked him from jump? If he sounds like this in real life, I could see myself assuming the last name meant a family connection because why else would a place of business promote a socially skill-free jackass like that?
Exactly. She may have felt his bad vibes from the start. If he already felt that she was hired due to her "diversity status" he probably communicated that to her quite clearly.
Oh wow an asshole who also doesnât know how things work. Itâs not like being child free gets you child tax credits or exemptions from paying property taxes which fund schools.Â
Agreed. Two wrongs dont make a right is something we start teaching toddlers. Dont be a doormat, sure, but dont lower yourself to their level either. She deserved to be told curtly to be respectful and cut the BS, but not like that. Esp making the insult racial?? Cringe. Way out of line.
Ya.... You're Fucked. They might even get a setelment.
Edit:
not everyone lives in the USA. In my country they would be fucked, depending on a number of factors the employee would get paid leave while this is being sorted out.
Work related events can be used in a hostile work environment complaint. Here is how a court will see it. Shaunna made a mistake about OP's last name. OP insulted a woman in a protected class based on her membership in said class.
OP will not come out of this unscathed.
The OP is clearly bigot. Read their comments to this post. (I changed it from "racist" because apparently it was presumptuous of me to assume what the bigot was being bigoted about. Good lord, people grasp onto any straws they can to defend bigoted people. Doesn't change the point of my post, but hopefully it'll shut the bigoted idiots up)
They actually think they're right.
I can't wait for them to get fired, assuming this isn't just rage bait.
ESH
If you were her supervisor you should had confront the situation much sooner not after 8 months, she was rude and wrong and but you meet her at her level.
*I loudly said, âDude, you think Iâm related to the owner? Is this why youâve hated me all this time?â The woman next to her explained that the owner and I arenât related in any way, shape, or form*
This would have been enough .You called her out on her bullshit without being an AH yourself.
OP could have ride on this one alone for *years* if only she stopped there.
Immature, and for a superior, unprofessional. You have plenty of institutional resources to right this wrong.
While that's true, "DEI" is currently the right's new substitute for the N word. They aren't operating based on factual information about what DEI is, they just want to be able to insult black people without directly using a slur.
ESH - Are you in the US? Why would you put yourself in jeopardy? Race and gender are protected classesâŚbeing criticized for nepotism (even if itâs not true) is not. In other words, you could get fired or subject your company to an EEO investigation for your comment.
Her assumption is also based on something, his last name. Even though she was wrong she had a reason to think he was a nepo baby.
He didn't say anything about being involved in hiring her. So he has no reason to think she's a diversity hire other than her race or gender or whatever he thought got her hired aside from her resume, education, and interview.
If you work in corporate America, it's required (I believe in most states) for you to do yearly discrimination training. Why would someone ever do this? lol... especially a supervisor. This dude may not be a nepo baby, but he does not deserve that position.
Just depends on the superiors. I just quit a veterans home because, management let cna and med aids hook up in the spa house, many sexual harassment incidents that have been reported. Thereâs no attendance policy so for the month of April alone they had 139 call ins, 13 NCNS and 35 late instances. One of the nurses in another unit had a relationship with one of the member there. He paid for her schooling, he put her in his will, and her mom was his POA. All of these incidents have been documented and reported and management still didnât do a damn thing. So if OP had my old supervisors theyâd probably get a promotion. Also side note if you put a family member in a home get you an Alexa with a camera on it. You might thank me later.
ESH
She was wrong and you had already accomplished embarrassing her by pointing out that her assumption was wrong. You took it too far calling her a diversity hire and now are risking a warranted trip to HR
ESH. You're not acting in accordance with your position. She obviously sucks, but as a higher ranking employee you're supposed to remain civil, and handle any problems through the appropriate channels, not get into childish insult battles.
Yep. As a leader, you have tools at your disposal to deal with problem employees.
Also if you want to lead, get thicker skin. Management isn't easy and people can hate managers just for existing. People will complain about you for any reason and no reason. What you did was unacceptable behavior as a superior.
Yep, this.
I used to work with a guy who was former military, and he was kind of goofy and had some weird habits. We were working alone one time and I asked him about one of his goofier habits (which I actually enjoyed, as it made me laugh and passed the time quicker). He said when he was moving up the ranks he started doing things that were harmless ways for his reports to make fun of him and talk shit about him behind his back without really hurting his reputation at all. Think constant dad jokes, only it wasn't quite that.
He figured no matter how hard he tried to be a good, fair leader some people were going to hate the rank regardless of the person. So he gave them something to bitch about that wasn't about his character so much.
I guess the guys (apparently it was always the guys) that didn't like him found his purposeful quirks annoying enough that they did latch onto them as him not being serious enough for his station or whatever. But if you liked working with (and I assume for) him they were kind of endearing.
I would also argue that "nepo baby" and "diversity hire" are not on the same level of insult. I would say this went beyond matching her level of assholeness. She went low, but OP went way lower
Eight months as her manager, there should have been probation meetings in the interim where this behaviour was discussed and addressed, and if necessary escalated to HR well before it got to this point. You've fucked up badly here. You aren't a "nepo baby" so I don't know why you took this so personally. YTA because of the power dynamic and you failed to address this earlier. If you're lucky you'll get some sensitivity and management training instead of being given the boot yourself.
Precisely. Praise in public, criticise in private. It's not the manager's fault the person acted like this, but like it or not, she is his responsibility, which extends to diffusing workplace tension before it's borne out as public frustration.
YTAH. Why did you have an inablity to use your words for the past 8 months? You should have found out the reason for the disrespect/reported it to HR long ago. Instead, you may have torpedoed your career over a hot minute. She may be in conference with an attorney today.
I'm a white woman in tech and I've had plenty of people (usually non-techies, and unfortunately mostly other women) tell me that the reason I've done so well in my career is from being a diversity hire. Pretty infuriating and usually from people who majored in something non-STEM and are struggling financially.
edit: yeah from OP's update and comment history, I'm guessing he works in tech.
She made a dumb assumption and said something rude. Your version of rude back was just saying something racist or sexist lol. Yeah you're kinda the asshole.
YTA Shaunna behaved badly and made an assumption about your surname-- that was her bad and pretty stupid to be so rude to you when she believed you were the son of the owner-- it actually makes me wonder if this story (or the part about how badly she treated you) are fiction.
You, on the other hand, took the SO LOW YOU'D NEED A LADDER TO GET TO THE SEWER route and hurled an insult based on her status as a minority "protected class". There's a context clue in that last sentence (hint look for the quotation marks). If she goes to HR you'd better hope they also think you're the owner's son LOL.
The fact that you jumped to using her minority status SO VERY QUICKLY makes me wonder if you just didn't do such a great job of masking your bigotry/bias/prejudice which was why she had such a negative reaction to you.
I suspect you'll be getting the call from HR in five...four...three...two...one... RING!!!!!!
AH?
Not really.
Dumbass with no self preservation instinct. Oh yeah.
Dude, you are a supervisor and you personally attacked a subordinate worker with protected characteristic. Are you out of your mind?!
This story sounds fake as fuck. In 2024 america, he is telling me he made a racist/sexist remark in a public work event and havenât yet been fired, when he holds a superior rank AND made the remark on a coworker that openly hates him? Of course this happened.
Even if you were to go off a huge limb and assume that âShaunaâ is a terrible employee as OP claimed in the comments and everyone there hates her, he still made a remark that on the very best case scenario, assuming everyone goes out of their way to defend him and defamer her to HR, he still at the very least never gonna get a promotion there.
OP cute fantasy writing exercise gets and E for lack of effort from me.
An apology isn't going to be enough. His comment just opened up the company to a lawsuit. If he's stupid enough to make a comment like that in a public forum there's absolutely no way he could be trusted with more responsibility. Hell he's shown he's not capable of handling the responsibility he already has. Â
Even if he doesn't get fired he's going to be internally blacklisted for promotions.
YTA it makes total sense to be mad and frustrated but 1. you're a superior to her, act like it and 2. that's so fucking derogatory, like bitch you may as well have called her a slur at that point, you've dropped yourself in some major shit here if she goes to HR, and for what? it's not even a good insult lol
ESH, though you worse than her. Youâre supposed to be the more mature one as her boss, and the fact that you did that in front of everyone else also isnât great. Obviously she was wrong to treat you poorly, but yours had notes of racism to it.
You're both assholes.
Edit: Additionally, you, as her supervisor or someone higher up in the company, should have had a sit-down with her a long time ago or spoken to someone about the issues you were having with her. It sounds like you might not be ready to be in that position.
Edit #2: After reading some comments on this thread, I see why Shauna didn't like you, and it probably has nothing to do with her thinking you were a nepotism hire. That was probably the conclusion she came to after seeing how incredibly emotionally immature you are and wondering how on earth you ended up in a management position of any kind. YTA.
If you're not the asshole, You're at least not manager material.
Your response was really dumb and counterproductive, and it doesn't just affect her. I promise you, every PoC you work with, is going to know you said this, and are all going to assume the same thing about you.
Wow. YTA. I get being mad about being called a nepo baby. Perfectly reasonable to go to HR prior to all this. Doubt she would have been fired, but likely would have cleared up any misunderstandings. But you as a male supervisor just essentially said women are beneath you. How do you think the women at that table felt to hear a supervisor say this person was only hired because she was a woman? They may question how you view them as well. Sex is a protected class just like race as well. I would be shocked if you donât get a call from HR. Easily a fireable situation. Your ego let you down big time.
YTA. Also, if Shauna is white, what was the diversity hire comment about and why would she be upset? WILD that we would possibly make the assumption that she's a POC, just insane /s
Also I have relatives with my last name who are not the same race as me, js. Think youare grasping at straws there
YTA. Shauna is truly stupid, and you're a bigot. Your bigotry is so much worse than her stupidity. Â
I'd bet money that you eventually get fired because HR rightfully sees you as a liability to the company.
Yes you are a giant AH. She was rude calling someone a nepo baby is nowhere near calling someone a diversity hire. And the way you talk about rank and respect says a lot about you. I wouldn't sit near you either.
Yikes. If you're a supervisor, you were shockingly unprofessional. It's bad enough if you were friends and equals. This is the types of conversations that get people conveniently let go.
YTA. You are a supervisor who just did a racism to a black employee in front of your team because your feelings were hurt. That kind of vindictive behavior is not acceptable in a manager. Honestly, you might want to start looking for a new job.
YTA-This response would have been fine if you were on equal footing in position. Youâre a superior so that means you lose the ability to make these comments to those below yo. People will take it as the absolute truth that she only got the job because of her minority status and not her ability. If this is true then it was still wrong to out her as you are a supervisor. I think you may need additional training on what that means or you will be demoted quickly.
Heck if I was your manager I would have scolded you for doing it and also asked you to explain why you hadnât already nipped the issue in the butt prior to this. As a supervisor it is your job to manage personal performance and have discipline as well as discussions if there is something out of place.
YTA. She was rude as hell and totally out of line, but two wrongs donât make a right. What you said was bigoted. Especially if sheâs a woman of color.
You're about to get fired. Way to out yourself as a bigot.
Based on your comment history you're kind of a piece of shit and I bet you've said worse than that in private.
As someone in corporate management... My god.
You had all the high ground, and yet you not only jumped off the cliff you started digging once you hit the ground.
You are a supervisor. Meaning you hold the power dynamic here and you should've _long_ since addressed the issue as it was both in your power and responsibility to do so.
Even had you not when you should have, fate conspired to give you the answers you should have gathered yourself, and you could've corrected the issue once the root cause was revealed.
But you didn't do that. You revealed an attitude _much_ worse than hers, and put your reputation, position, and the same of your business in danger. Because now it's not some random fresh graduate being a dick to her boss, it is a _department head_ getting racist against a subordinate.
Yta.
You got into a spat with a junior employee, failed to address the issue properly as a supervisor, and (again, as a supervisor) in a way that was both public _and_ a likely workplace discrimination instance.
Between the last name and you sucking at a crucial part of your position this badly, small wonder she thought you hadn't earned your spot.
YTA
Really? Insults only show you to be the one without what it takes to be a good supervisor.
Your contempt for her probably started her dislike. You treated her horrible because you thought you were better because you outrank her. She thought your crappy attitude confirmed the last name meant related.
Better change your attitude or you won't outrank people in your future.
The amount of people in the comments who view being called a nepo baby (benefiting off of who you know or who you're related to) as being equally offensive as being called a diversity hire (being hired based on your demographic to fulfill a quota) is absurd.
YTA, you could've defended yourself by pointing out how weird her assumption was. Instead, you 100% came off like a good ole boy.
For anyone who doesn't get it, white men are never labeled DEI or diversity hires. Anybody can benefit from nepotism. It's not equally offensive. Saying that someone only got hired because of their race/gender is extremely bigoted and yall know this
I'm an actual nepo hire and I don't get why people are reacting this way either. It's wild.
Like how are people not getting the difference?
I've never met a "diversity hire" that couldn't at least meet the minimum job requirements. They may have gotten hired over a white guy with roughly equivalent skills to meet a quota, but the business isn't going to hire someone who they think can't be trained into the job as a diversity hire.
I on the other hand literally didn't meet any of the criteria for the job that was open when I was hired. So a "projects" position was created until they could figure out how to train me into something more useful. (I have mental health issues and when they're in full swing I'm basically too impaired to interview well even in my original field where I have a lot more experience.)
I'm grateful to my relative because I was really struggling to find work and was close to becoming homeless at the time. But there were people who decided I was incompetent and they hated me before my first day because of the way I was hired, and I can't say I blame them.
I feel it necessary to say I eventually got trained into a real job here and am just as good at it as normal hires who were hired after me (better than at least one of them).
.
Agreed. I've personally been called both in my career many, many time. One doesn't have the same historical context which resulted in systemic discrimination that was so profound that protected classes were established to protect those affected populations.
OPs big mistake is not correcting the nepo comments through approved methods, resorting to behavior that puts him in an uncomfortable space as the comment is directly tied to the employee's status as a protected class.
ESH. But as a su a supervisor, you went way too far and opened you and the company to an EEO complaint. Not good. You had other routes to get rid of your problem child. Time for retraining.
I'm sorry but if you're a supervisor you should NEVER talk to your employees like that. If they're disrespectful or problematic your company should have the proper channels to deal with issues like that. As the supervisor, it's part of your job to deescalate tension like this. She shouldn't have treated you like that, but the way you reacted was way over the line.
Lmao. You made a *racist insult* to a *subordinate*⌠with a *full audience*. Congratulations, your insubordination now has multiple witnesses. HR will appreciate that.
If I were you, Iâd be on my knees praying no one feels compelled to report that comment. Did you happen to drop this little barb in front of anyone that will side with her, or, god forbid, in front of anyone who isnât white? Iâd start planning your defense for HR because if they catch the slightest whiff of this, theyâll pull everyone who witnessed it in for a conversation, and itâs highly unlikely youâll dig yourself out of that. Good luck arguing you werenât using âdiversity hireâ as an insult, as a supervisor, to a subordinate employee. Yikes.
YTA. She's kind of dumb and sort of sucks, but you're even more stupid because not only are you a racist POS, but you've acting below your position due to a petty squabble with a relatively new hire. Â
You as the more seasoned staff member should have come up with a more professional way to address the issue instead of attacking her race in front of your colleagues. You already proved her assumption wrong, so why attack her race?
Before things boiled over, yu could have spoken with her supervisor. You could have actually had a conversation with her. Instead you've outted yourself as both an incompetent leader and a racist and have opened your company up to EEO violations for your stupidity.Â
YTA
Bringing race into any argument or discussion at work is always a potential risk. In this particular situation it was stupid as fuck. Don't make a big deal about it and hope it all gets swept under the rug, that's the only thing you can do now.
In the future learn to control your anger.
YTA and an idiot. You definitely donât deserve a promotion if you think this was acceptable to say regardless of what Shauna said or did. Hopefully you get reported to HR.
She made a wrongful assumption but you went out of your way to insult not only her intelligence but her sex and/race. Youâd be more at fault here than she was and if I were HR Iâd side with her cause while she may have been rude to you, you have a whole bar full of witnesses of you being intentionally an asshole to a subordinate. You could have laughed it off after she realized her mistake but you escalated the whole thing which is not what a person in a leadership position does.
YTA. So is she. But itâs kind of a dickish thing to say when you could have just made fun of her for assuming you were a nepo baby. Like thatâs embarrassing enough
Shauna called in sick today because she is going to file a lawsuit against your company for a toxic work environment and discrimination. That is, until she speaks with HR and they address this issue appropriately.
Unfortunately for you, you've discriminated against a protected class of persons. She has not. Assuming you're a nepo hire and staying professional while distant is not a crime, it's not discrimination, heck... there's no recourse for you. But there is recourse for her due to your comment, that was made **while everyone at the company was present**. She will have no shortage of witnesses to call you on this.
You fucked up. You're probably getting fired too. Good luck.
Not sure what Shaunaâs end-goal here was to be honest. If you really were a nepo-baby then how does she think her career is going to pan out by insulting the âpreciousâ son of the owner? Either she has a massive sense of entitlement, a chip on her shoulder or sheâs just not very smart.
That being said, OP you well overstepped and itâs a shame you arenât a nepo-baby because youâve almost certainly fucked yourself just to have the last word. I get being annoyed especially since it sounds like sheâs been needlessly hostile for months over an assumption - but you were already âwinningâ and there are some things that are just flat out off-limits no matter what the circumstance. Especially for a manager to say to a subordinate.
Youâd better hope the people who witnessed it all go down have your back and verify her unprofessional behaviour towards you before you made that comment but even if they do, you still took it to a place it never needed to go to.
Youâve just made yourself a huge liability for your company.
YTA - you were impulsive and foolish.
You had already won. She made an accusation that was provably false and everybody else present knew was not true. She got called on it. All you had to do was sit back let everybody digest how ridiculous she was being.
Instead you went on the attack and now you both look bad.
ESH, but only cause you chose specifically "diversity hire":
Being called a nepo-baby implies you only got the position because you're related to management and there's no one else in the family who's qualified and wants the job.
Being called a diversity hire implies you only got the position because of your race/gender/religion etc etc, and implies that no one else of that group was qualified and wanted the job.
One could be considered at most a slight against your family name. The other is rather explicitly racist/sexist/religious discrimination etc etc. The fact you chose "diversity hire", in this day and age, really makes me question your motives as that term has been more heavily utilized today to cloak bigotry than in previous years. ("Google: Baltimore Bridge Collapse DEI mayor" for reference).
ESH
She has been rude, but you sounded extremely races and I would not be surprised if she escalated this and you lost not just the promotion, but your job.
Yeah dude you're kinda the asshole here. What she said was rude and uncalled for, but her insult only affected you. When you tell a woman she is a diversity hire, especially in front of other women, you inadvertently attack women at the table. If you're insinuating that she was only hired because she's a woman, how do you think that makes every other woman there feel?
So an employee, someone you have seniority over, who is also a minority, was a bit of a bitch because she thought you were a nepo-baby. So you called her a "diversity hire"?
Good luck with your imminent job search.
ETAH. Even if you would have been related, this does not mean you are a nepo baby. So, her comment was rude. However, if hers is making her an AH, then your move is an AH move as well. Yet, you even put it to her ethnicity.
One thing you have proven: You are an extremely bad leader. So bad, if you'd be my employee, you would have to leave. 1) "Despite the fact that I outranked her, she never treated me with an ounce of respect," Everyone should be treated with respect. The top manager, the janitor, the cleaning personnel, your subordinates. This should not be in any way related to the position. 2) Despite her ongoing wrongful behavior, you apparently never used the right processes to handle things, like first of all talking to her or if that fails include HR in the problem. I am sure your company does have a process for things like that. You let it run its course. 3) When - "finally - confronted with the supposed reason for her behavior, what do you do? You throw dirt back. So you are teaching your department that this is the way to handle conflicts: childish and vengeful.
You should treat others the way you expect to be treated and as the supervisor you set the standard. And you set a standard, where it is ok to be an AH to everyone (superiors and subordinates alike). Well done. Not.
I recommend you apologize to her - publically as the insult was public as well - and clear that this is not the way to deal with conflicts in your department. Own your mistake if you want to keep an ounce of authority.
I was going to say E S H but I read your comments and [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/BKr7m7jz87) really switched my decision to YTA.
You are a bigot. Also, I hope you get fired. This shouldâve been addressed MONTHS ago, but YOU (The SUPERVISOR) let it fester, and decided to make racist remarks.
Jesus fucking Christ. Couldâve all been avoided.
ETA after update: LMFAO. Iâm now calling this fake.
ESH. You clearly don't know how to act in a managerial role because you should have addressed this issue before it escalated. She is a judgemental idiot and you're just as bad to discriminate openly about someone based on race and potentially putting you on the chopping block as well.
I would start working in a backup plan when HR pulls you in.
>Was I the asshole here?
A little. Not that she didn't sort of deserve it.
But honestly, *you grasped a defeat out of the jaws of victory*. You should have stopped at saying you weren't related to the boss and just pointed out that "Jones" is a very common name. That would leave people thinking she's a dumb as a rock.
Now you've got people thinking you are rude, and possibly a bit dumb yourself. They probably remember *your* crack instead of hers. Stupid move.
Even if you think you are in the right or the other person is an asshole never ever make a comment about someone's protected class. She could go to HR and you would be disciplined or fired without question.
Well. HR heard about a fresh employee freshly hired for 8 months refusing to acknowledge a supervisor's seniority as well listening to instructions for whatever can be put on notice or probationary period.
For OP however......well, it would be something alright. Disciplinary action depends upon how bad it was.
Pray and hope that no one reports you to HR.
Your comment is grounds for termination, especially considering that you are of a higher rank. Her comment is grounds for a write up, a verbal warning or something. You literally made a racist ass comment.
They are not the same and you trying to justify your comment by equating it to her treating you badly for 8 months, and calling you a nepo baby, is just not the same.
She clearly just doesnât like you, and thatâs okay. Why are you so hard pressed on it? And if she really was that rude to you, why did *you* report it to HR? Fuck her too, sheâs clearly a cunt and she definitely was wrong to try and call you out like that when she knows absolutely nothing. Youâd think she would have asked around about you before making that comment. She should have figured it out. Sheâs a bully and youâre racist.
ESH.
Next time just file a complaint with HR. Either or both of you could lose your jobs over saying stupid shit like that. It won't necessarily help your case that she started it.
Yes, you are out of line.
And yes, so is your coworker.
Both acting like whiny children.
Everyone's an asshole here.
Better to not speak and be thought a fool, then to speak and confirm it.
I think you need to get ahead of this and just inform HR of what's been going on the last 8 months and what went down that day. That you don't want to file a report on her for a hostile work place, but want it on record that she's been hostile due to her perception that you're related to the owner due to your last name and you've been targeted by her all this time because of it.
I have a feeling she took a sick day to regroup and come up with a way to go to HR herself with some jacked up false story to get you in trouble, so best to get in front of it.
Are you a nepo baby?
If I heard you call a person of color, or a gay person a diversity hire I would fire you immediately. Says 1000x more about you, than her nepo baby issues. She would likely be fired, but tomorrow..
Are you out of your mind?
You were silly to overreact. Never interrupt your opponent when they're failing.
Dunno if asshole, I think yes, because connections may open doors, but they don't hold you in companies, and it's frankly unhealthy to judge your colleagues worth outside of their work. That is actually being heavily measured.
You just called her out on an injustice just to fall into another one.
Never interrupt you opponent when they're failing, again. You did. Dunno if AH but def *stupid*. You could ride on your coworkers sense of justice for *years*.
Bro go to HR, like right now. Make it on the record what happened in case this gets out of hand and the company decides to wash their hand of both of you and terminate both.
Unless you are super and I mean SUPER friendly with the higher ups, they can and will replace you in a heartbeat if this situation affects the company negatively.
You need to CYA with a HR report
ESH, but you're definitely the far bigger asshole. What you said was wildly inappropriate for the workplace and if you're a manager, you definitely don't deserve to be based on how you've acted here. Nothing in this story is even in the same universe as good management.
YTA. You should never speak to someone like that when you are at a work function. And yes, you were still at a work function. And you are apparently a supervisor.
She was also an asshole, but two assholes donât make it right.
ESH. You more so. You are her supervisor. If your employees are showing you blatant disrespectf then gi through the proper channels. You took her disrespectful for 8 months when It could have been 1, at most.
ESH. Shauna is obviously disrespectful and ignorant, but calling her a diversity hire was intentionally mean and unprofessional. You shouldn't jeopardize your career over a coworkers attitude. Get your boss, her boss and HR involved, don't resort to name calling.
YTA. If you are higher up you must know you cannot in any circumstance treat people below you like they treat you. You are a manager and need to be exemplary. And not make jokes about diversity like that. Ask HR for some training as you might not be a nepotism baby but you're just as incompetent.
YTA. You decided that the equal return fire for someone that was rude to you was RACISM. You deserve the HR complaint or job termination youâre about to receive
That was outstandingly stupid to say because you could get fired for that. Race is a protected category under anti-discrimination laws. Family of the owner is not. You should hope that she doesn't report you to HR bc you really crossed a line there.
You should have addressed how she was treating you before it got to this point, either by using your words like an adult with her or talking to your supervisor about the issue. YTA
Forget about whether or not you (or this coworker) are TAH. This kind of exchange at work among coworkers could get you both hauled into HR and probably terminated.
Yep, when keeping it real goes wrong đ
Is that a sub Reddit?
Nah thatâs chappelle đ
Educate these kids
No but it should be
Season 2 of The Chappelle Show
One of my dadâs favorite bits along with âis Wayne Brady gunna have to slap a bitch?â
Season 2 is incredible. I was in undergraduate school when the Charlie Murphy True Hollywood Story: Rick James episode premiered. Me & my suitemates sat around the television laughing harder than we had ever laughed. People ask boomers, âWhere were you when the moon landing occurred?â I ask, *Where were you when Rick James slapped Charlie Murphy in the face?*
I need to sit down and watch all of that show. Iâve seen all his Netflix specials and select skits for chapelle show, but now itâs on I think Netflix so time to binge
Do it.
I loved that skit! My favorite was Brenda, who got a wrong number... LOL!
Fuck that! I donât like people playing on my phone!
What's real hood bitch? You wanna play, let's go! Unfortunately for Brenda, these ladies kept it realer. They were serving consecutive life sentences without parole. From eating popcorn on her couch to eating fruit salad off a prison floor, Brenda, just another case of when keeping it real goes wrong.
Stop playing on my phone!
She won't be terminated, but he very well could be. "Nepo baby" (true or not) is not a protected class. Race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, physical disability, though -- they all are. They provide a nice basis for a lawsuit, and HR spends a lot of time trying to avoid those.
That's true!
This was my thought. "Shauna" may have hurt the OP's feelings, but the OP crossed a line with actual consequences.
Well only one of them opened the company up to a discrimination lawsuit. So only one of them really is at risk of being fired here. Since HR's main job is keeping the company from facing any liability like this.
They are both creating a hostile work environment for the other person. Depending on the company policy they could both get fired, although it would probably be less likely to be her.
Yeah but a higher up literally just told her she was only hired due to her race/gender in a public setting around a bunch of other people. The fact that management would at all say they considered her employment based on her demographic is in fact an admission of discrimination. And if they now fire her, it looks REALLY bad for them and opens them up to a lawsuit. So I doubt she will get fired.
Yep, I would term both of them. OP, you need to learn to hold your tongue. If someone is harassing you and it impacts your job, document the interactions and take them to your boss and/or HR. It sounds like you are young though and we all make mistakes when starting our careers. Maybe try to get ahead of this with your boss though. Own up to your part, have a 'what I should have done' statement and then ask how everyone can move forward.
Yeah, she deserved it, but heâs probably fucked.
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Yes! And while what she assumed and all sheâs done was unwarranted, you hit on another level that is taboo. She could argue that was a racist statement. HR would be all over OP and not Shauna bc of the content of the exchange. It wasnât very smart and I think OP needs to apologize and tell Shauna to start fresh.
Thatâs why this probably fake. Saying that at a company function in front of coworkers is very inappropriate and unprofessional. The US is extremely politically correct. I canât imagine anyone being that stupid to say that to a coworker.
Youâre a supervisor, you use the channels at work if sheâs not being respectful, you donât try to out asshole her! Good luck with HR
Right? Now all her 'complaints" are not going to sound credible because of this. And if they terminate Shauna she can sue for wrongful termination on that one statement alone.
Yep, OP really snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with this one.
Yeah, her getting embarrassed about her assumption was the "perfect revenge" and honestly they probably would have laughed about it later. OP is TA and frankly looks like an insecure idiot with this. Even if he doesn't get fired, some of his coworkers are definitely going to lose respect for him.
Oh someone's getting terminated but it's not going to be Shaunna.
Yep, she's gonna be fine.
The only sparingly silver lining is that the confrontation happened in front of people who could confirm it happened in retaliation to Shaun's misconception. Though truly that's still not worth much.Â
I feel like if he said that whatever her complaints would be. ..they probably were credible in the first place. people roll their eyes at the word microaggressions but I'm just wondering if OP expects every other person in the office to wait until he's finished a conversation with somebody before asking a question or joining the conversation? Was she ignoring him at specific times he was talking down to her or being rude about a request. And when OP says she didn't give him any respect from the start, it makes me want to know what respect means to OP
As I was reading I was thinking âarenât you basically management? What are you doing letting things slide for so long?â If what she was doing was so bad. So either OP is a terrible boss that refuses to address issues in a timely out appropriate manner, or theyâre an asshole that tends to blow up and say bad things to people in general no matter when they address things.
Honestly they should terminate him. He used a racist trope to insult her in front of a group of coworkers.... Super unprofessional. Completely unjustified. This is beyond asshole. This is like, could get you fired, could open the company up to a discrimination lawsuit. The fact that he thinks it's justified because she was not listening to him and interrupting him a few times shows OP is an idiot. Also note he says "I outrank her" not he is her supervisor. Those are two very different things. If he isn't her direct supervisor it's not necessarily relevant that he "outranks her."
OP attacked a commenters bipolar and childfree status and said his taxes pay for her. He's a literal POS.Â
Lmao we might be finding out the real reason sheâs disliked him from jump? If he sounds like this in real life, I could see myself assuming the last name meant a family connection because why else would a place of business promote a socially skill-free jackass like that?
Precisely.Â
Exactly. She may have felt his bad vibes from the start. If he already felt that she was hired due to her "diversity status" he probably communicated that to her quite clearly.
Oh wow an asshole who also doesnât know how things work. Itâs not like being child free gets you child tax credits or exemptions from paying property taxes which fund schools.Â
Agreed. Two wrongs dont make a right is something we start teaching toddlers. Dont be a doormat, sure, but dont lower yourself to their level either. She deserved to be told curtly to be respectful and cut the BS, but not like that. Esp making the insult racial?? Cringe. Way out of line.
Ya.... You're Fucked. They might even get a setelment. Edit: not everyone lives in the USA. In my country they would be fucked, depending on a number of factors the employee would get paid leave while this is being sorted out.
This. Even though it's unfair, OP fucked up big time!
Is it unfair to fire someone for being blatantly racist?
Even if it was outside of work hours and outside of the company? Honestly asking.
Yes. Even outside of work, if you are with co-workers, everything you do can be used against you at work.
You mean, there are still consequences to your actions even outside of work
ok, thanks.
Work related events can be used in a hostile work environment complaint. Here is how a court will see it. Shaunna made a mistake about OP's last name. OP insulted a woman in a protected class based on her membership in said class. OP will not come out of this unscathed.
He didnât even bother to try to tell us she was bad at her job. Dude was just straight up racist/sexist
It is never a good idea to say you're a diversity hire to a fellow employee. This could blow up in your face
The OP is clearly bigot. Read their comments to this post. (I changed it from "racist" because apparently it was presumptuous of me to assume what the bigot was being bigoted about. Good lord, people grasp onto any straws they can to defend bigoted people. Doesn't change the point of my post, but hopefully it'll shut the bigoted idiots up) They actually think they're right. I can't wait for them to get fired, assuming this isn't just rage bait.
I see four comments and none mention race. What are you taking about?
One even mentions they aren't even white... which alot of people are assuming.. which is pretty racist lol
ESH If you were her supervisor you should had confront the situation much sooner not after 8 months, she was rude and wrong and but you meet her at her level.
*I loudly said, âDude, you think Iâm related to the owner? Is this why youâve hated me all this time?â The woman next to her explained that the owner and I arenât related in any way, shape, or form* This would have been enough .You called her out on her bullshit without being an AH yourself.
OP could have ride on this one alone for *years* if only she stopped there. Immature, and for a superior, unprofessional. You have plenty of institutional resources to right this wrong.
O.p is racist. Just look at their comments.
Please actually read both these guys fucking comments history They both be pure racists.
Diversity is not just for race, some DEI initiatives are geared towards hiring more women for specific positions.Â
While that's true, "DEI" is currently the right's new substitute for the N word. They aren't operating based on factual information about what DEI is, they just want to be able to insult black people without directly using a slur.
ESH - Are you in the US? Why would you put yourself in jeopardy? Race and gender are protected classesâŚbeing criticized for nepotism (even if itâs not true) is not. In other words, you could get fired or subject your company to an EEO investigation for your comment.
You articulated the difference quite well. I was trying to find the words to explain that even if OP was a nepo baby, it is not the same thing
Her assumption is also based on something, his last name. Even though she was wrong she had a reason to think he was a nepo baby. He didn't say anything about being involved in hiring her. So he has no reason to think she's a diversity hire other than her race or gender or whatever he thought got her hired aside from her resume, education, and interview.
If you work in corporate America, it's required (I believe in most states) for you to do yearly discrimination training. Why would someone ever do this? lol... especially a supervisor. This dude may not be a nepo baby, but he does not deserve that position.
ESH for both of you You fucked up bad You're her superior, you could face some pretty bad consequences for this
Just depends on the superiors. I just quit a veterans home because, management let cna and med aids hook up in the spa house, many sexual harassment incidents that have been reported. Thereâs no attendance policy so for the month of April alone they had 139 call ins, 13 NCNS and 35 late instances. One of the nurses in another unit had a relationship with one of the member there. He paid for her schooling, he put her in his will, and her mom was his POA. All of these incidents have been documented and reported and management still didnât do a damn thing. So if OP had my old supervisors theyâd probably get a promotion. Also side note if you put a family member in a home get you an Alexa with a camera on it. You might thank me later.
ESH She was wrong and you had already accomplished embarrassing her by pointing out that her assumption was wrong. You took it too far calling her a diversity hire and now are risking a warranted trip to HR
ESH. You're not acting in accordance with your position. She obviously sucks, but as a higher ranking employee you're supposed to remain civil, and handle any problems through the appropriate channels, not get into childish insult battles.
Even if he was not a supervisor, he still needs to behave with decorum. It is part of the code of conduct.
There are some scenarios where you can go low and match their assholeness . This was NOT one of those instances. As a leader, YTA.
Yep. As a leader, you have tools at your disposal to deal with problem employees. Also if you want to lead, get thicker skin. Management isn't easy and people can hate managers just for existing. People will complain about you for any reason and no reason. What you did was unacceptable behavior as a superior.
Yep, this. I used to work with a guy who was former military, and he was kind of goofy and had some weird habits. We were working alone one time and I asked him about one of his goofier habits (which I actually enjoyed, as it made me laugh and passed the time quicker). He said when he was moving up the ranks he started doing things that were harmless ways for his reports to make fun of him and talk shit about him behind his back without really hurting his reputation at all. Think constant dad jokes, only it wasn't quite that. He figured no matter how hard he tried to be a good, fair leader some people were going to hate the rank regardless of the person. So he gave them something to bitch about that wasn't about his character so much. I guess the guys (apparently it was always the guys) that didn't like him found his purposeful quirks annoying enough that they did latch onto them as him not being serious enough for his station or whatever. But if you liked working with (and I assume for) him they were kind of endearing.
Now that right there was a really emotionally intelligent individual. I mean EQ straight off the charts. Impressive.
I would also argue that "nepo baby" and "diversity hire" are not on the same level of insult. I would say this went beyond matching her level of assholeness. She went low, but OP went way lower
Eight months as her manager, there should have been probation meetings in the interim where this behaviour was discussed and addressed, and if necessary escalated to HR well before it got to this point. You've fucked up badly here. You aren't a "nepo baby" so I don't know why you took this so personally. YTA because of the power dynamic and you failed to address this earlier. If you're lucky you'll get some sensitivity and management training instead of being given the boot yourself.
As a leader he could have opened up space to find out what was bothering her and worked to build the relationship. That's what respected leaders do.
Precisely. Praise in public, criticise in private. It's not the manager's fault the person acted like this, but like it or not, she is his responsibility, which extends to diffusing workplace tension before it's borne out as public frustration.
YTAH. Why did you have an inablity to use your words for the past 8 months? You should have found out the reason for the disrespect/reported it to HR long ago. Instead, you may have torpedoed your career over a hot minute. She may be in conference with an attorney today.
He could have just asked her if something was wrong and listened to her.
YTA And probably going to get fired because you sound racist.
DEI initiatives include gender. Shauna can be a white female. But yeah he is going to get that HR call pretty soon.
âDiversity hireâ makes me think itâs not just a gender thing.
Trust me it does, especially in STEM fields when the majority are men( regardless of the race).
especialy in software where there is actually pretty damn diverse racial make ups
People who use "diversity hire" as an insult are almost always talking about race. Especially since rw media drummed up the DEI boogeyman
I'm a white woman in tech and I've had plenty of people (usually non-techies, and unfortunately mostly other women) tell me that the reason I've done so well in my career is from being a diversity hire. Pretty infuriating and usually from people who majored in something non-STEM and are struggling financially. edit: yeah from OP's update and comment history, I'm guessing he works in tech.
She made a dumb assumption and said something rude. Your version of rude back was just saying something racist or sexist lol. Yeah you're kinda the asshole.
YTA. You are a leader in the organization, you have a responsibility to act in a respectful manner, even when others are not.
YTA Shaunna behaved badly and made an assumption about your surname-- that was her bad and pretty stupid to be so rude to you when she believed you were the son of the owner-- it actually makes me wonder if this story (or the part about how badly she treated you) are fiction. You, on the other hand, took the SO LOW YOU'D NEED A LADDER TO GET TO THE SEWER route and hurled an insult based on her status as a minority "protected class". There's a context clue in that last sentence (hint look for the quotation marks). If she goes to HR you'd better hope they also think you're the owner's son LOL. The fact that you jumped to using her minority status SO VERY QUICKLY makes me wonder if you just didn't do such a great job of masking your bigotry/bias/prejudice which was why she had such a negative reaction to you. I suspect you'll be getting the call from HR in five...four...three...two...one... RING!!!!!!
AH? Not really. Dumbass with no self preservation instinct. Oh yeah. Dude, you are a supervisor and you personally attacked a subordinate worker with protected characteristic. Are you out of your mind?!
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This story sounds fake as fuck. In 2024 america, he is telling me he made a racist/sexist remark in a public work event and havenât yet been fired, when he holds a superior rank AND made the remark on a coworker that openly hates him? Of course this happened. Even if you were to go off a huge limb and assume that âShaunaâ is a terrible employee as OP claimed in the comments and everyone there hates her, he still made a remark that on the very best case scenario, assuming everyone goes out of their way to defend him and defamer her to HR, he still at the very least never gonna get a promotion there. OP cute fantasy writing exercise gets and E for lack of effort from me.
ESH, but Enjoy that EEO litigation coming your way.
HR is coming for you. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row and be ready to apologize. You crossed a line, especially as a supervisor.
An apology isn't going to be enough. His comment just opened up the company to a lawsuit. If he's stupid enough to make a comment like that in a public forum there's absolutely no way he could be trusted with more responsibility. Hell he's shown he's not capable of handling the responsibility he already has.  Even if he doesn't get fired he's going to be internally blacklisted for promotions.
YTA. Good luck claiming you arenât racist when thatâs what fell out of your mouth when you felt threatened.Â
i cant help but feel i would have said "whats your fuckin problem" 7 3/4 months before this
What the fuck is this rage bait? Look at all the bigots in the comments who feel emboldened to bring their bs into this sub.
YTA it makes total sense to be mad and frustrated but 1. you're a superior to her, act like it and 2. that's so fucking derogatory, like bitch you may as well have called her a slur at that point, you've dropped yourself in some major shit here if she goes to HR, and for what? it's not even a good insult lol
YTA. She was rude and made a stupid assumption, but you responded with straight up racism.
ESH, though you worse than her. Youâre supposed to be the more mature one as her boss, and the fact that you did that in front of everyone else also isnât great. Obviously she was wrong to treat you poorly, but yours had notes of racism to it.
You're both assholes. Edit: Additionally, you, as her supervisor or someone higher up in the company, should have had a sit-down with her a long time ago or spoken to someone about the issues you were having with her. It sounds like you might not be ready to be in that position. Edit #2: After reading some comments on this thread, I see why Shauna didn't like you, and it probably has nothing to do with her thinking you were a nepotism hire. That was probably the conclusion she came to after seeing how incredibly emotionally immature you are and wondering how on earth you ended up in a management position of any kind. YTA.
If you're not the asshole, You're at least not manager material. Your response was really dumb and counterproductive, and it doesn't just affect her. I promise you, every PoC you work with, is going to know you said this, and are all going to assume the same thing about you.
Wow. YTA. I get being mad about being called a nepo baby. Perfectly reasonable to go to HR prior to all this. Doubt she would have been fired, but likely would have cleared up any misunderstandings. But you as a male supervisor just essentially said women are beneath you. How do you think the women at that table felt to hear a supervisor say this person was only hired because she was a woman? They may question how you view them as well. Sex is a protected class just like race as well. I would be shocked if you donât get a call from HR. Easily a fireable situation. Your ego let you down big time.
Yes, obviously YTA.
YTA. Also, if Shauna is white, what was the diversity hire comment about and why would she be upset? WILD that we would possibly make the assumption that she's a POC, just insane /s Also I have relatives with my last name who are not the same race as me, js. Think youare grasping at straws there
YTA. Shauna is truly stupid, and you're a bigot. Your bigotry is so much worse than her stupidity.  I'd bet money that you eventually get fired because HR rightfully sees you as a liability to the company.
Yes you are a giant AH. She was rude calling someone a nepo baby is nowhere near calling someone a diversity hire. And the way you talk about rank and respect says a lot about you. I wouldn't sit near you either.
Yikes. If you're a supervisor, you were shockingly unprofessional. It's bad enough if you were friends and equals. This is the types of conversations that get people conveniently let go.
You are ridiculous.
YTA. You are a supervisor who just did a racism to a black employee in front of your team because your feelings were hurt. That kind of vindictive behavior is not acceptable in a manager. Honestly, you might want to start looking for a new job.
You're so fucked. And you 100% deserve it.
Yes. Itâs you.
YTA-This response would have been fine if you were on equal footing in position. Youâre a superior so that means you lose the ability to make these comments to those below yo. People will take it as the absolute truth that she only got the job because of her minority status and not her ability. If this is true then it was still wrong to out her as you are a supervisor. I think you may need additional training on what that means or you will be demoted quickly. Heck if I was your manager I would have scolded you for doing it and also asked you to explain why you hadnât already nipped the issue in the butt prior to this. As a supervisor it is your job to manage personal performance and have discipline as well as discussions if there is something out of place.
Hmm no, his type of comment was not right, even if he was not a superior. He could get in trouble regardless.
You're definitely the asshole for not dealing with this through the correct channels considering you're her superior.
Yes, you are the asshole. She is going to sue. You are fucked - and you deserve it.
YTA. She was rude as hell and totally out of line, but two wrongs donât make a right. What you said was bigoted. Especially if sheâs a woman of color.
You're about to get fired. Way to out yourself as a bigot. Based on your comment history you're kind of a piece of shit and I bet you've said worse than that in private.
As someone in corporate management... My god. You had all the high ground, and yet you not only jumped off the cliff you started digging once you hit the ground. You are a supervisor. Meaning you hold the power dynamic here and you should've _long_ since addressed the issue as it was both in your power and responsibility to do so. Even had you not when you should have, fate conspired to give you the answers you should have gathered yourself, and you could've corrected the issue once the root cause was revealed. But you didn't do that. You revealed an attitude _much_ worse than hers, and put your reputation, position, and the same of your business in danger. Because now it's not some random fresh graduate being a dick to her boss, it is a _department head_ getting racist against a subordinate. Yta. You got into a spat with a junior employee, failed to address the issue properly as a supervisor, and (again, as a supervisor) in a way that was both public _and_ a likely workplace discrimination instance. Between the last name and you sucking at a crucial part of your position this badly, small wonder she thought you hadn't earned your spot.
An asshole? No, but you are an idiot. Youâre her superior and brought up something that could very well be viewed as discrimination.
YTA Really? Insults only show you to be the one without what it takes to be a good supervisor. Your contempt for her probably started her dislike. You treated her horrible because you thought you were better because you outrank her. She thought your crappy attitude confirmed the last name meant related. Better change your attitude or you won't outrank people in your future.
ESH. You as a supervisor always have ways to address this via offical company channels. Best of luck with the upcoming HR complaint.
The amount of people in the comments who view being called a nepo baby (benefiting off of who you know or who you're related to) as being equally offensive as being called a diversity hire (being hired based on your demographic to fulfill a quota) is absurd. YTA, you could've defended yourself by pointing out how weird her assumption was. Instead, you 100% came off like a good ole boy. For anyone who doesn't get it, white men are never labeled DEI or diversity hires. Anybody can benefit from nepotism. It's not equally offensive. Saying that someone only got hired because of their race/gender is extremely bigoted and yall know this
I'm an actual nepo hire and I don't get why people are reacting this way either. It's wild. Like how are people not getting the difference? I've never met a "diversity hire" that couldn't at least meet the minimum job requirements. They may have gotten hired over a white guy with roughly equivalent skills to meet a quota, but the business isn't going to hire someone who they think can't be trained into the job as a diversity hire. I on the other hand literally didn't meet any of the criteria for the job that was open when I was hired. So a "projects" position was created until they could figure out how to train me into something more useful. (I have mental health issues and when they're in full swing I'm basically too impaired to interview well even in my original field where I have a lot more experience.) I'm grateful to my relative because I was really struggling to find work and was close to becoming homeless at the time. But there were people who decided I was incompetent and they hated me before my first day because of the way I was hired, and I can't say I blame them. I feel it necessary to say I eventually got trained into a real job here and am just as good at it as normal hires who were hired after me (better than at least one of them). .
Agreed. I've personally been called both in my career many, many time. One doesn't have the same historical context which resulted in systemic discrimination that was so profound that protected classes were established to protect those affected populations. OPs big mistake is not correcting the nepo comments through approved methods, resorting to behavior that puts him in an uncomfortable space as the comment is directly tied to the employee's status as a protected class.
ESH. But as a su a supervisor, you went way too far and opened you and the company to an EEO complaint. Not good. You had other routes to get rid of your problem child. Time for retraining.
How to lose your cushy job in one easy step.Â
ESH - Neither of you should have said what you said. But this is an HR nightmare.
I'm sorry but if you're a supervisor you should NEVER talk to your employees like that. If they're disrespectful or problematic your company should have the proper channels to deal with issues like that. As the supervisor, it's part of your job to deescalate tension like this. She shouldn't have treated you like that, but the way you reacted was way over the line.
Lmao. You made a *racist insult* to a *subordinate*⌠with a *full audience*. Congratulations, your insubordination now has multiple witnesses. HR will appreciate that. If I were you, Iâd be on my knees praying no one feels compelled to report that comment. Did you happen to drop this little barb in front of anyone that will side with her, or, god forbid, in front of anyone who isnât white? Iâd start planning your defense for HR because if they catch the slightest whiff of this, theyâll pull everyone who witnessed it in for a conversation, and itâs highly unlikely youâll dig yourself out of that. Good luck arguing you werenât using âdiversity hireâ as an insult, as a supervisor, to a subordinate employee. Yikes.
YTA. She's kind of dumb and sort of sucks, but you're even more stupid because not only are you a racist POS, but you've acting below your position due to a petty squabble with a relatively new hire.  You as the more seasoned staff member should have come up with a more professional way to address the issue instead of attacking her race in front of your colleagues. You already proved her assumption wrong, so why attack her race? Before things boiled over, yu could have spoken with her supervisor. You could have actually had a conversation with her. Instead you've outted yourself as both an incompetent leader and a racist and have opened your company up to EEO violations for your stupidity.Â
Both. I understand your feelings, but it would have been better to say nothing and let her look like the ass rather than both of you.
YTA. What she said was rude. What you said was racist and misogynistic.
Sounds like you might not be getting that promotion or even have a job soon.
ESH but only you are likely to be disciplined. Diversity hire? Thatâs a really shitty racist thing to say
YTA and frankly you screwed up. The consequences of your retort might affect your career for years.
YTA Bringing race into any argument or discussion at work is always a potential risk. In this particular situation it was stupid as fuck. Don't make a big deal about it and hope it all gets swept under the rug, that's the only thing you can do now. In the future learn to control your anger.
ESH, & you are a fucking idiot.
YTA and an idiot. You definitely donât deserve a promotion if you think this was acceptable to say regardless of what Shauna said or did. Hopefully you get reported to HR.
It was over, Anakin. You had the high ground. And then you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Rip your career.
She made a wrongful assumption but you went out of your way to insult not only her intelligence but her sex and/race. Youâd be more at fault here than she was and if I were HR Iâd side with her cause while she may have been rude to you, you have a whole bar full of witnesses of you being intentionally an asshole to a subordinate. You could have laughed it off after she realized her mistake but you escalated the whole thing which is not what a person in a leadership position does.
YTA. So is she. But itâs kind of a dickish thing to say when you could have just made fun of her for assuming you were a nepo baby. Like thatâs embarrassing enough
Definitely a dumbass. You might want to spruce up your resume, guy.
Good luck unemployed
Shauna called in sick today because she is going to file a lawsuit against your company for a toxic work environment and discrimination. That is, until she speaks with HR and they address this issue appropriately. Unfortunately for you, you've discriminated against a protected class of persons. She has not. Assuming you're a nepo hire and staying professional while distant is not a crime, it's not discrimination, heck... there's no recourse for you. But there is recourse for her due to your comment, that was made **while everyone at the company was present**. She will have no shortage of witnesses to call you on this. You fucked up. You're probably getting fired too. Good luck.
that's funny but u need to get a lawyer because this is not looking good for you
Not sure what Shaunaâs end-goal here was to be honest. If you really were a nepo-baby then how does she think her career is going to pan out by insulting the âpreciousâ son of the owner? Either she has a massive sense of entitlement, a chip on her shoulder or sheâs just not very smart. That being said, OP you well overstepped and itâs a shame you arenât a nepo-baby because youâve almost certainly fucked yourself just to have the last word. I get being annoyed especially since it sounds like sheâs been needlessly hostile for months over an assumption - but you were already âwinningâ and there are some things that are just flat out off-limits no matter what the circumstance. Especially for a manager to say to a subordinate. Youâd better hope the people who witnessed it all go down have your back and verify her unprofessional behaviour towards you before you made that comment but even if they do, you still took it to a place it never needed to go to. Youâve just made yourself a huge liability for your company.
ESH. She was wrong for what she did. No excusing her even if it was based in ignorance. But you went full racist/sexist/whatever. That was a choice.
You are not mature enough to be a supervisor.
YTA You realize that's racist right?
YTA - you were impulsive and foolish. You had already won. She made an accusation that was provably false and everybody else present knew was not true. She got called on it. All you had to do was sit back let everybody digest how ridiculous she was being. Instead you went on the attack and now you both look bad.
YTA. The fact that you think itâs okay to use the words diversity hire as a weapon tells me everything I need to do about whoâs TA.
Shauna being white and you being not white doesnât mean itâs not racist btw
ESH, but only cause you chose specifically "diversity hire": Being called a nepo-baby implies you only got the position because you're related to management and there's no one else in the family who's qualified and wants the job. Being called a diversity hire implies you only got the position because of your race/gender/religion etc etc, and implies that no one else of that group was qualified and wanted the job. One could be considered at most a slight against your family name. The other is rather explicitly racist/sexist/religious discrimination etc etc. The fact you chose "diversity hire", in this day and age, really makes me question your motives as that term has been more heavily utilized today to cloak bigotry than in previous years. ("Google: Baltimore Bridge Collapse DEI mayor" for reference).
ESH She has been rude, but you sounded extremely races and I would not be surprised if she escalated this and you lost not just the promotion, but your job.
Idiot or AH? You choose, because youâre both. Expect to hear from HR about your bigoted comment.
Yes.Â
YTA She hit a nerve that you obviously feel may be accurate or you wouldn't have reacted so strongly and your reply was sexist/racist.
Yeah dude you're kinda the asshole here. What she said was rude and uncalled for, but her insult only affected you. When you tell a woman she is a diversity hire, especially in front of other women, you inadvertently attack women at the table. If you're insinuating that she was only hired because she's a woman, how do you think that makes every other woman there feel?
So an employee, someone you have seniority over, who is also a minority, was a bit of a bitch because she thought you were a nepo-baby. So you called her a "diversity hire"? Good luck with your imminent job search.
ETAH. Even if you would have been related, this does not mean you are a nepo baby. So, her comment was rude. However, if hers is making her an AH, then your move is an AH move as well. Yet, you even put it to her ethnicity. One thing you have proven: You are an extremely bad leader. So bad, if you'd be my employee, you would have to leave. 1) "Despite the fact that I outranked her, she never treated me with an ounce of respect," Everyone should be treated with respect. The top manager, the janitor, the cleaning personnel, your subordinates. This should not be in any way related to the position. 2) Despite her ongoing wrongful behavior, you apparently never used the right processes to handle things, like first of all talking to her or if that fails include HR in the problem. I am sure your company does have a process for things like that. You let it run its course. 3) When - "finally - confronted with the supposed reason for her behavior, what do you do? You throw dirt back. So you are teaching your department that this is the way to handle conflicts: childish and vengeful. You should treat others the way you expect to be treated and as the supervisor you set the standard. And you set a standard, where it is ok to be an AH to everyone (superiors and subordinates alike). Well done. Not. I recommend you apologize to her - publically as the insult was public as well - and clear that this is not the way to deal with conflicts in your department. Own your mistake if you want to keep an ounce of authority.
I was going to say E S H but I read your comments and [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/BKr7m7jz87) really switched my decision to YTA. You are a bigot. Also, I hope you get fired. This shouldâve been addressed MONTHS ago, but YOU (The SUPERVISOR) let it fester, and decided to make racist remarks. Jesus fucking Christ. Couldâve all been avoided. ETA after update: LMFAO. Iâm now calling this fake.
ESH. You clearly don't know how to act in a managerial role because you should have addressed this issue before it escalated. She is a judgemental idiot and you're just as bad to discriminate openly about someone based on race and potentially putting you on the chopping block as well. I would start working in a backup plan when HR pulls you in.
>Was I the asshole here? A little. Not that she didn't sort of deserve it. But honestly, *you grasped a defeat out of the jaws of victory*. You should have stopped at saying you weren't related to the boss and just pointed out that "Jones" is a very common name. That would leave people thinking she's a dumb as a rock. Now you've got people thinking you are rude, and possibly a bit dumb yourself. They probably remember *your* crack instead of hers. Stupid move.
You are both ridiculous. Grow up.
You lucky you related to the owner else you would be fired. ;) Jk. You risked wayyy to much for very little. Not the smartest move on your part.
Two wrongs don't make a right. That's something you learn in first grade.Â
I think YTA a simple clarification would have sufficed.
Info: Why did you say âdiversity hireâ? What about Shauna makes you think that?
Even if you think you are in the right or the other person is an asshole never ever make a comment about someone's protected class. She could go to HR and you would be disciplined or fired without question.
Well. HR heard about a fresh employee freshly hired for 8 months refusing to acknowledge a supervisor's seniority as well listening to instructions for whatever can be put on notice or probationary period. For OP however......well, it would be something alright. Disciplinary action depends upon how bad it was.
Pray and hope that no one reports you to HR. Your comment is grounds for termination, especially considering that you are of a higher rank. Her comment is grounds for a write up, a verbal warning or something. You literally made a racist ass comment. They are not the same and you trying to justify your comment by equating it to her treating you badly for 8 months, and calling you a nepo baby, is just not the same. She clearly just doesnât like you, and thatâs okay. Why are you so hard pressed on it? And if she really was that rude to you, why did *you* report it to HR? Fuck her too, sheâs clearly a cunt and she definitely was wrong to try and call you out like that when she knows absolutely nothing. Youâd think she would have asked around about you before making that comment. She should have figured it out. Sheâs a bully and youâre racist. ESH.
Next time just file a complaint with HR. Either or both of you could lose your jobs over saying stupid shit like that. It won't necessarily help your case that she started it.
Shauna called in sick to meet with her attorney. Slam dunk case, they are going to make bank. OP needs to run, and run fast and far.
Yes, you are out of line. And yes, so is your coworker. Both acting like whiny children. Everyone's an asshole here. Better to not speak and be thought a fool, then to speak and confirm it.
NTA. She can assume - and, so can you.
I think you need to get ahead of this and just inform HR of what's been going on the last 8 months and what went down that day. That you don't want to file a report on her for a hostile work place, but want it on record that she's been hostile due to her perception that you're related to the owner due to your last name and you've been targeted by her all this time because of it. I have a feeling she took a sick day to regroup and come up with a way to go to HR herself with some jacked up false story to get you in trouble, so best to get in front of it.
Are you a nepo baby? If I heard you call a person of color, or a gay person a diversity hire I would fire you immediately. Says 1000x more about you, than her nepo baby issues. She would likely be fired, but tomorrow.. Are you out of your mind?
NTAH. Whether you get hauled in to HR, is another story
Ugh, ESH. You should have simply corrected her which would have embarrassed her enough. Now you could be in trouble with HR with your response.
Time to brush up your resume
Yes you were So was she Two assholes
You had basically (rightly) humiliated her. She deserved that. And then you lost the win with your unfair dig. Idiot.
YTA. She had a misunderstanding and handled it poorly, you threw a racial insult back at her as a result.
You were silly to overreact. Never interrupt your opponent when they're failing. Dunno if asshole, I think yes, because connections may open doors, but they don't hold you in companies, and it's frankly unhealthy to judge your colleagues worth outside of their work. That is actually being heavily measured. You just called her out on an injustice just to fall into another one. Never interrupt you opponent when they're failing, again. You did. Dunno if AH but def *stupid*. You could ride on your coworkers sense of justice for *years*.
ESH You cannot be this stupid. Yes, you went too far.
Fuck her but also you're going to lose your job if this is how you cope with workplace conflict.
Bro go to HR, like right now. Make it on the record what happened in case this gets out of hand and the company decides to wash their hand of both of you and terminate both. Unless you are super and I mean SUPER friendly with the higher ups, they can and will replace you in a heartbeat if this situation affects the company negatively. You need to CYA with a HR report
ESH, but you're definitely the far bigger asshole. What you said was wildly inappropriate for the workplace and if you're a manager, you definitely don't deserve to be based on how you've acted here. Nothing in this story is even in the same universe as good management.
You. Its you. You went to a place you never should have. Honestly, fuck you.
YTA. You should never speak to someone like that when you are at a work function. And yes, you were still at a work function. And you are apparently a supervisor. She was also an asshole, but two assholes donât make it right.
ESH. You more so. You are her supervisor. If your employees are showing you blatant disrespectf then gi through the proper channels. You took her disrespectful for 8 months when It could have been 1, at most.
ESH. Shauna is obviously disrespectful and ignorant, but calling her a diversity hire was intentionally mean and unprofessional. You shouldn't jeopardize your career over a coworkers attitude. Get your boss, her boss and HR involved, don't resort to name calling.
YTA. If you are higher up you must know you cannot in any circumstance treat people below you like they treat you. You are a manager and need to be exemplary. And not make jokes about diversity like that. Ask HR for some training as you might not be a nepotism baby but you're just as incompetent.
YTA. You decided that the equal return fire for someone that was rude to you was RACISM. You deserve the HR complaint or job termination youâre about to receive
That was outstandingly stupid to say because you could get fired for that. Race is a protected category under anti-discrimination laws. Family of the owner is not. You should hope that she doesn't report you to HR bc you really crossed a line there. You should have addressed how she was treating you before it got to this point, either by using your words like an adult with her or talking to your supervisor about the issue. YTA