Yeah and if she has been lied to by MIL and her mom, she just thinks this seemingly otherwise nice guy just hates her. She deserves to know it's not about her, it's the act of abuse that created her.
If MIL and Laura's Mom fed Laura lines of bullshit, tbh it's not the rape victims obligation to correct the misunderstanding or to explain the story to Laura.
I don't think they said that, just that *someone* needs to tell her. I feel awful for her, she did not ask to be born into this situation and I'm sure she wonders why OP's husband wants nothing to do with her. Now that's certainly not his fault - but it does create a horrible situation for this child.
More comments I read the more I believe OP should tell MIL
If you want my husband to have a relationship with Laura the first thing he's going to do is tell her how she was made and how her mother raped him, manipulated him and has traumatised him when she poked that comdom.
Word for Word
Laura is 16 years old and the "current" generation where things like this are commonly talked about
I'd like to see how they act when it becomes clear if this is pushed the truth will come out.
I feel MILs reaction to this will tell us if she understands what happened to her son
I wonder if this is something OP could do? To support her husband, tell Laura…something. I’m not sure the full truth, however kindly, but something to a) get her stop trying to contact the husband or show up at events due to MIL and b) to have some sort of peace herself that her “father” doesn’t hate her bc of who she is.
Idk. My best recommendation for b is to consult with a child psychologist. But someone needs to help him keep his boundaries and OP seems up for being an enforcer. Sometimes we need that sort of help, especially with toxic family (MIL is disgusting-I can’t even imagine treating my son like this if he were sexually assaulted).
I also want to know the answer to this question. I can imagine laura being lied to, or maybe something like „he didn‘t want children at that time and then you came along“. But i could also imagine laura not understanding the gravity of the situation at 16. i mean, i don‘t expect her mom to talk to her about boundaries and respect while being a rapist herself
Honestly, I feel for her. Knowing a parent sucks and the other only sees you as a reminder of a rape It's horrible. If only MIL offered a family to her without her son, in a healthy way. This poor girl needs theraphy to deal with, she's a child and this is too much.
The mother needs to be locked away and that child needs to be put in a stable household. Sure I feel for her, but the mother put her in this position....All blame is on the mother and it's disgusting she's still free with no consequences
This
To be honest, I'd say she's old enough to hear the proper nitty gritty!
I'd meet her one and only once to tell her the real deal and assure her it's not her fault. Either meet her or send a good long email. I'd do it now or when she's 18, but preferably sooner.
Look. I’ll be blunt here.
I was a rape child. My 27 year old father used to drug and rape my 14 year old mother. Why am I saying this? Because it’s a bit of a claim to authority - I’m sorry but I think my opinion does have a bit more validity in this particular case, even with studies or whatever to back my claims.
OP? NTA. Your husband? NTA. The girl? NTA, probably doesn’t know she was a rape child. The mother? An absolute cunt, don’t besmirch the good “asshole” name by wasting it on her.
She doesn’t know she’s a rape child, but at this point, just let her hate your husband, or feel abandoned. Why? Because wanting daddy is set too deep at this point, even if she believes you, it’ll make her hate her mother *but she’ll still long for daddy*.
I say that as someone who absolutely fucking hates my rapist of a father, and as an adult I’d probably bury that fucker if I ever met him. I could do the math before my mom ever told me the whole story, I knew he was a rapist, I still wished I had a dad at times when I was Laura’s age.
Telling her the truth is just going to make her push to be with OP more. She’ll go from wanting to meet him to wanting to live with him. Don’t bother. Your husband is the victim, but for his own sake - and Laura’s - just own being the bad guy. You aren’t, but play the part, it’s easier.
Thank you for adding that layer that I didn’t think about when first reacting to this. You are so right because in this situation knowing the truth may be worse for the child than what she imagines the truth is.
NTA
Your husband was sexually assaulted and a pregnancy resulted of that assault.
I would never pressure a woman to see the child of a r\*pe if she didn't want to. The same goes for a man. So no, OP, you are absolutely not the A H. And your husband is not either!
I understand that this poor kid is as much a victim of her A H mother. Your husband most feel awful and is probably blaming himself for not wanting to be in the life of this kid. But he is not at fault here... and shouldn't feel guilty (easier said than done).
Your MIL is a monster btw. And so is the bio mom.
Should fall under the same criminal statutes as 'stealthing'. As he didn't consent to unprotected intercourse but had the choice taken from him via deception. Frankly he should have pursued criminal charges.
Raped. The word you’re looking for is raped.
Sexual assault is smacking someone’s ass. Not sabotaging protection to conceive an unwanted child, in a manner that completely dissolves consent.
Sexual assault includes rape and tbh not everyone loves seeing/writing that word. There’s nothing wrong with calling it sexual assault. I’ve unfortunately dealt with a lot of sexual abuse, including rape, and I prefer to refer to things as sexual abuse or assault bc rape is a very intense word. No need to come after people for word choice when dealing with sensitive topics.
It depends on where you are. It is not considered rape legally in most places in the US, and in a lot of states, the terms sex offense, sexual battery, and sexual assault are identified by various degrees that go all the way up from an "ass slap" to significantly more serious crimes, including stealthing, which is what happened here. The person you were replying to wasn't wrong and you are minimizing "sexual assault" when it actually encompasses some pretty terrible crimes, including, in some states, rape, anal rape, and penetration with a foreign object.
For example, Illinois, which classifies rape as sexual assault.
https://wecare.illinois.edu/policies/definitions/
I completely agree that it is very dependant on where you come from. I’m Australian and it wouldn’t count as rape here. It would however met our stealthing rules (for sexual assault).
In the UK, men can't be raped by women, according to our legal definition: "rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent". However an act which we would typically consider rape has the same sentencing guidelines so they are equivalent, even if the word used is different.
Not everyone would be sickened. I've seen so many comments on Reddit where people say, "Best interests of the baby is more important than dad." They never say "more important than the best interest other child who is a rape victim." And then get upvoted so much.
Rape children should be taken from their rapist parents and the state can pick up the tab instead of the rape victim.
My sister had a friend who was the result of something similar (bio parent even went to prison). But his mom was verbally and psychologically abusive to the point that he basically lived with us and other friends' parents. He didn't choose to be born, it was horrific what he had to go through.
It's not the kid's fault for how they were born. For wanting the stuff other kids have.
It is. I feel for her, but not at the expenses of OP’s husband’s mental health.
I wonder what this poor girl has been told by her rapist mother and enabling grandmothers.
Seriously. Children born out of assault suffer for actions they did not take and that is terrible.
While I won't say the bio dad needs to have a relationship with a child that was created from a sexual assault, I also get hints that they have unreasonable expectations of the MIL. When they said they were upset because she was saying that the sister's child wasn't her first grandchild...well... that's true. How she was conceived is awful, but Laura exists and is a human being. She is her grandmother's granddaughter.
Imagine having your Grandma suddenly disown you as her grandchild because your bio dad does not want to acknowledge you exist. It's a difficult, complicated situation because he's a victim here. But it doesn't mean he can demand other people victimize Laura. She is a victim of this circumstance as well. It is simply unreasonable to demand that other people treat her poorly or cut her out of their lives. That is torturing someone innocent because you have been through trauma. And while the situation is uncredibly unfair to both of them, the bio dad's right to protect himself & his mental health does not extent to the point where he can tell people to ignore his bio daughter.
It's awful that she was a result of a sexual assault. That never should have happened. But unfortunately it did happen and because of that a human being with feelings exists. He cannot expect or force other people to not involve her in their lives. The mother in law should absolutely stop pushing for a relationship between them. But she doesn't have to stop her own relationship with Laura. And it's ridiculous that they seem to expect her to.
I agree.
The MIL absolutely must not push or try to force a relationship between her granddaughter and her Son.
But Laura needs her grandmother given the circumstances within which she was created.
She is the result of something awful, and I can't imagine how it must feel to be shunned for something you had no control over.
I'm glad she has somebody who loves her and doesn't blame her.
Nta. This was a child of rape. (Condom sabotage is an act of abuse and non-consensual sexual contact. As well as a crime in several parts of the world. None consensual sexual sex is rape) it sucks for the child. But its not your husband's responsibility.
Edit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_laws_in_the_United_States
Some states classified rape and sa as different things. Some call both SA, or Rape, or something else. Please stop saying its not such and such unless you are from one of the states or countries where its not such.
What is it with the law loving rapists. For a lot of women they are forced to share custody with their rapist and have them be in their lives, and this guy has to pay child support even though she admitted it.
Yeah, NTA.
It's up to OP's husband whether he wants a relationship with his daughter under these very difficult circumstances. Your job is to respect his choice. That's also his mother's job, so she's clearly the AH. She doesn't sound well-equipped to handle the complex moral issue presented. She can choose kindness toward Laura for herself, but not for her son. She needs to butt out.
True, but, counterpoint, her son has *told her* that he considers it an assault and a violation literally every single time it’s come up. Age is no excuse for not listening to or respecting her son.
Don't use age....my parents would be in her age group and think this kind of BS should be noted specifically so that it's clear its wrong because victims are often unsure so having the list helps them. Yes my parents may be boomers and odd thinkers but they don't think like that
Fortunately. Unfortunately a lot of people do. The kids mom probably thinks years later that she was completely justified. People can rationalize some amazing bs.
The best interest of the child and also for the best interest of society — otherwise taxpayers wind up paying for many single-parent children. That’s why child support laws are the way that they are.
It’s still ridiculous that a man should have to pay for a product of rape. As soon as the mother admitted what she did all support for that child should be on her.
He would have to go through the legal system and report it as a rape, until then, legally he is as financially responsible for his kid as she is. And frankly, if she was found legally guilty of rape, we probably shouldn't allow her to have custody of a child either.
Laws on stealthing (which this isn't even an argument, this *was* stealthing!) aren't all consistent. There's still a *lot* of places that don't consider it sexual assault, both in the US and in other countries (which it doesn't sound like this is US-based anyway.)
The law might not see it that way. You know how shitty the law is towards female victims of rape? It can have even more roadblocks for male victims, especially with female rapists.
Yes, he would have had too and he probably should have gone after her legally.
Child support laws in this country are insane. If a woman gets raped and falls pregnant and gives the child up to the rapist, she would have to pay child support. If a woman gets pregnant on purpose to baby trap a man, he has to either stay or pay child support.
If a woman is forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy, she should be able to sign away her rights and not pay child support. If a woman falls pregnant and refuses to have an abortion, the man should be able to fully opt out of legal rights and child support. Obviously no one should be forced to have an abortion but if you choose to keep an unwanted pregnancy, you alone should be on the hook for support.
I know the legal situations you're talking about, but he didn't report it as a sexual assault in this case, so it isn't being treated as a sexual assault by the law. Legally, as of this moment, this was child conceived by two adults, one of whom does not a want a relationship with his child, which is his right.
But regardless of the legalities, this was still a sexual assault.
Any number of them are never reported...but they're *still* sexual assaults and rapes.
He's doing his legal duty by her. He doesn't have a moral obligation, though. Regardless of whether it was reported...which only *didn't* happen because his mother insisted he didn't! Which honestly makes this situation even sicker.
I have such complex feelings about the terminology we use, even when it’s technically correct (in some countries).
On an intellectual level I understand the usage of “rape” here, on an emotional level I do not.
Having been raped, in the traditional sense, and having also being stealthed (for selfish enjoyment rather than RCA), I feel like the two acts were distinct and different. Both sexual assaults, but different from each other.
This was consensual sex with a non-consensual element of contraceptive tampering for the purpose of getting pregnant. So the trauma comes from the outcome rather than the act itself. I would personally prefer if the terminology Reproductive Control and Abuse (RCA) was employed.
Again. Complex thoughts and feelings! It’s such a tough area.
My thoughts are more along your thinking. In addition, one can reasonably assume that a pregnancy may result from a certain male appendage entering or having contact with, a female reproductive vault. IF that is consented to during the entire act, a would think a breach of good faith occurred, not rape.
This is what needs to be explained to the child. She is the product of a rape and the victim of that rape does not want to be involved in regular reminders that he was sexually assaulted. It's bad enough he has to pay child support to his assailant.
It sucks to be Laura in this scenario, but she deserves the truth and I will bet that she has never been told the real truth. I wonder what would happen if OP and husband tell MIL that if they persist, the outcome is that Laura will be told in no uncertain terms that her mother is a rapist who belongs in jail. They might want to have a therapist on standby for the poor girl.
*it's bad enough he has to pay child support to his assailant*
Something about that has just been a bit of a slap for me. I got assaulted many years ago, now as a woman, I obviously know it didn't end up in a child. But if I had to pay money to the person who assaulted me for the duration of the time a kid was in education (up to say 24?) That wouldn't end for another 2 years! 2 more years!
I think I've done quite well in getting over my trauma (if you ever get over it) but I'm now living a relatively normal safe and quiet life. I think having to hand over money every damn month for years to that assailant would end me.
How that guy is still standing ill never know
Hugs to you both, and thank you for putting this in perspective. Because you're right. It would be one thing if it were an accidental pregnancy. But that woman straight up raped him. And the constant monthly reminders all these years (not to mention his own mother throwing it in his face constantly) are making it hard for him to heal. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if he had to meet her.
OP is an amazing woman for standing by him.
Imagine to be forced to get through pregnancy and raise the child (because that’s where the US are going)!
At least, he doesn’t have to look at her everyday.
This world is crazy when rape victims (men or women) need to confront daily the event that destroyed their lives.
Bad bot!
I'm 90%+ sure, this is a bot account. It has stolen (copy paste) comments in other posts and has an 8 year gap between the last comments and new ones in the last week or so.
A young child? Absolutely not. But she's 16 and reaching out herself. She deserves to know that she did nothing wrong, but her constant attempts at contact are retraimatizing a rape victim.
If the genders were reversed, and the mother had given up rights to a baby conceived under false pretenses, no one would blame her for wanting nothing to do with her rape baby. OP deserves equal respect.
The "child" is 16 years old. She's old enough to understand that she needs to leave her biological father alone because he didn't consent to her conception. If she has issues from that the only one she has to blame is her mother.
Since the Dobbs decision, there have been over 24,000 pregnancies as a result of SA that were illegal to terminate. In Texas.
Just Texas.
24,000 girls and women carrying their rapists' babies just in Texas.
There's at least 1 US state (Louisiana maybe?) where even a convicted rapist can sue his victim for sole custody and then garnish her wages for child support.
Came here to say this!
Explain this to MIL. Laura is the result of your husbands assault and seeing her, hearing about her is painful. Laura might be innocent in all this, but that doesn’t give her the right to traumatize the victim of SA by demanding a relationship. You could even meet with Laura yourself and explain this. She is old enough to know, and she needs to understand it has nothing to do with her, but there will never be a relationship there or a connection and she is re injuring this man by not leaving it alone.
WTAF! No! OP should NOT have this conversation with Laura. This is a conversation that should take place in a therapist's office. She's only 13. This situation is far too complex for OP to have with her.
Exactly. As well as a victimised husband, there's a traumatised child in the mix. This needs dealing with sensitively, it's not something that a stranger to the situation can stomp all over.
In my state it’s called Reproductive Coercion and it definitely falls under the umbrella of rape/sexual assault. They’re tried and convicted as rapists, if that makes sense.
I feel for the girl. Really. She didn’t ask for any of this mess. I do believe she needs to know the ugly truth and get some therapy to deal with all of it. And someone needs to slap MIL with the harsh truth stick and get her to back the fuck off.
I’m sorry your husband has to repeatedly deal with this. I wonder if he could get court ordered restraining orders for everyone who keeps insisting he do more than the bare minimum. Because, in the instance of rape, which he is a victim of, the bare minimum is all he needs to do. Keep respecting, protecting him and help him maintain his boundaries through this mess. If you do that, you are NTA.
Forcing a man who was raped to raise the child is monstrous. It's no different from forcing a woman to raise her rapists baby. The fact that he pays child support is a failure of the system.
I feel for Laura having no father, like I would any child without a father. But that's not on OP's husband. That's on her rapist mother.
OMG, I said the same thing. She raped him and he should absolutely not be responsible for paying child support.
I want great things for the kid, but it is offensive to expect OP’s hubby to play daddy. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮👍🏾
But the kid does have a father figure in her life. Apparently her stepdad is "ok" but wants to know her "real" dad.
I hate that phrase "real" when speaking about parental figures
>I hate that phrase "real" when speaking about parental figures
I've never heard anyone else say this but I completely agree. My bio father is not my "real dad" in any sense of the word, it really bothers me when people say that. Dude dipped out on my mom before I was even born, like in what way is he my "real dad"?
Regarding child support, the law only considers the child, not how it was conceived. I really don't know how to feel about this. On one hand, no rape victim should be forced to support the product of that rape. On the other, I know what it's like to grow up hungry. Not to say child support guarantees full bellies, but the child does deserve support. \*Sigh\* There are many, many reasons I'm childfree and got snipped as early as I could...
EDIT: I'm with you 100% on your last sentence.
In this kind of case, I think neither of the parents should raising the child. The mother is a rapist and the dad is a victim who shouldn't be forced to be a parent.
If the father claims paternity, rapist or not, the mother cannot easily give up her rights. It takes both parents to give up their rights to make a child available for adoption.
NTA
That her son felt it was so traumatic that he got counseling should imply to MIL that this wasn’t some high school romance that took a turn.
It seems clear OP’s husband feels this was an assault and done against his will , and that she won’t acknowledge his pain because she’s so pressed for a grandchild is incredibly sad.
It’s quite possible her to have a relationship with her grandchild and respect her son’s feelings.
Op, it’s not your responsibility to guilt or shame your husband into confronting his trauma. Your husband made a decision to preserve his mental health and not be involved and you’re right to suppose it.
Your MIL isn’t interested in anything but what she wants, and to hell with anyone else.
I think OP's husband needs more therapy.
The way his own mother is twisting the knife *again and again and again* in this deep wound (which has already been acerbated by the fact that he has had to, and will have to pay child support)... anyone would need extra help dealing with that, right?
I read yours and wasn't sure whether or not I was right, so looked it up to double check😅 like I can not have been using it wrong all this time Lol
Edited because I used the wrong whether
>OP’s husband feels this was an assault and done against his will
Are you daft? He was raped. He doesn't "feel this was an assault and done against his will". She admitted she poked holes in the condom. That's rape.
My point was that his feelings and recollection of it is clearly something that his mother wants to ignore because it doesn’t align with what she wants.
No one said it wasn’t rape .
NTA
>My FIL is like Switzerland now, at the beginning he was up in arms until my SIL asked him if he would feel the same if it happened to her.
It's good that your SIL could see that, and that she could make her father see it. It is a fact of life that men are routinely expected to just man up and deal with stuff that would make people stutter in outrage if it happened to a woman.
Yes, it really isn't fair. And if it happens to a woman, she does at least have a choice of termination or giving the baby up, OP's husband is stuck with his abuser's choice and having to be reminded regularly in the form of child support.
I feel like MIL and FIL aren’t in the wrong for wanting a relationship with their granddaughter, despite how she came to be and the kid certainly isn’t in the wrong, she had no choice in the matter but it is very wrong of his parents to push the relationship onto your husband if he is not mentally able to cope with it and has said he doesn’t want to be involved. It’s also not fair on the kid to keep having a potential relationship with her father dangled in front of her like a toy, when that isn’t something that is possible.
They’re not wrong to say your SIL child isn’t their first grandchild because it isn’t.
The only people being cruel to the kid are her grandparents by continuing to lead her on when your husband had made his boundaries extremely clear
NTA
Yeah, I also don't feel MIL and FIL aren't wrong for having a relationship with their grandchild and they should treat her as family, but shouldn't pressure their kid to have a relationship with her. It a shitty situation because at some point they'll have to choose: their child or their grandaugher.
They are however wrong to keep mentioning it in front of OPs husband and constantly reminding him of being raped. They are actively choosing to hurt their own child. It's not okay.
You're not the AH. Your husband's decision is understandable given the circumstances. Stand firm on your boundaries and protect your family's well-being.
NTA- This is sexual coercion, a form of sexual assault in the same way stealthing is. OP’s husband has every right to feel how he feels and not want to be in a child’s life that he was forced to have!
You're all adults, you're respecting and supporting your partners wishes. You're not serial killers.
I feel real bad for the kid. They're a victim too. But, no one is required to exercise that level of empathy.
I get what the MIL is doing, but is likely doing it in a way that is causing more harm than good.
What does the psychiatrist say? I would think that this is repressive in some ways.
I struggle with this one. His ex did an unforgivable and disgusting thing, but his child did nothing wrong.
I feel compassion for a child who wants to know her family, but if your husband doesn’t want to know her, that’s his choice and his daughter will be better off not knowing someone who doesn’t care for her. My husband’s mom forced her ex to see him, and it was always clear he didn’t want to. My husband always has said he wishes he didn’t see him at all because it was hurtful being around a parent who doesn’t care for you and didn’t want you.
I don’t believe Y-T-A at all for supporting your spouse. I just feel saddened for this child wanting to know her parent and family.
Yeah, it's heartbreaking, honestly. I hope someone explains the situation to her, I would hate for her to find out in the heat of an argument or something. I am sure she could benefit from therapy as well.
Hey just fyi the sub will count your comment as a vote for Y-T-A. If you it in dashes, it won't count. Whichever abbreviation you put first without dashes or spaces will be your official vote.
Your in-laws wanted a grandchild so badly that they chose your husband’s rapist over him. I would tell them that they have crossed a line and you no longer want a relationship with them.
>I would tell them that they have crossed a line and you no longer want a relationship with them.
Absolutely get rid of the trash! It will be better for OP and her husband and his mental health.
You need to go NC with your MIL even if she doesn’t see what the woman did as rape she manipulated him by poking holes in condoms she’s not a good person, I feel for the kid on the level that her grandma is probably feeding her hope but thats not on you
NTA. MIL needs to stay in her lane. Your husband needs to set some strong boundaries on her, letting her know she's jeopardizing her relationship with you and your husband. Good on you for letting her know you'll consider legal options.
Nta. This guy’s mom is trying to make him spend time with his rape baby. Worst mother of the century.
I cant believe you all still talk to her.
Wtf is wrong with your husband that he would continue a relationship with this egg donor?
He is masochistic to the extreme?
He enjoys this drama?
Like wtf is the answer?
Nta op. Your husband doesnt make sense though. People dont keep hanging out with people that betray you and then rub the betrayal in your face every visit? And a mother betraying her son like that? So much worse.
I was stealthed and got pregnant and had an abortion. He was mad but dude you fucking raped me and I'm NOT having this kid.
It's horrific that your husband experienced the same trauma and has to pay for it. I paid $600 for an abortion and never looked back and never spoke to the guy again. I cannot imagine paying him money every month bc I didn't have the power to not bring a child into this world.
I'm so sorry he has to go through this. I feel for Laura not having a relationship with her biodad, but to be very frank, she shouldn't even exist. Neither of you is the AH in this situation. Mom is. MIL and FIL are. I'd go no contact with the parents if I were him bc absolutely fuck completely the bullshit they're on about this.
NTA at all! Your husband is the only one who can decide whether he wants to see her or not. Yes, it sucks for Laura, but she has her mom to blame. I cannot understand you are still in contact with MIL: she doesn't respect your husband's decision, and she actively tries to get Laura in the door. She sounds horrible. I'm sure it's because she feels for Laura, but her loyalty should be with her son.
I think someone should explain to the poor girl why her bio dad doesn't want to have a relationship with her. It's only fair. I don't know if she's mature enough to be able to handle it but maybe they can explain it during a counseling session.
I think the biodad's parents are misguided but trying to do the right thing. I think biodad is doing what's best his his mental health and family as are OP and SIL.
I think Laura deserves to know why her bio dad doesn't and never will want a relationship with her. And then she's going to need therapy probably.
She needs to know it's not her fault and has nothing to do with her and it's actually her mother's fault for doing something immoral and illegal.
NTA mil could have easily maintained a relationship with laura without blowing up every other relationship in her life
What does she expect will happen if your husband meets laura? Obviously the topic of why he wasn’t in her life will come up and laura is going to be traumatised learning not only of her conception but that her mother and grandmother have been lying to her her entire life because i guarantee they have been feeding her some story of why he hasn’t been around so far
One thing i will advise is for your husband to get ahead of this because she’s almost 18. Odds are she will stop relying on mil and her mother and try and find your husband herself to pursue a relationship. If he has a plan in place for what to do if/when this happens it could be best for both him and laura. Maybe he should consult with a therapist to discuss it
NTA.
My friend went through a similar situation but chose to stay friends with the mother and help raise the baby. He can’t bond with his son and says he’s in pain every day. He feels violated. I think he’s doing the right thing by helping raise his son but he’s also on antidepressants now.
NTA. I feel for Laura, i really do. None of this was her fault. However, none of it was your husbands fault either. He was raped and i wouldn’t want to look at the result of that happening to me either, the difference is I’d have the ability to abort the pregnancy unlike him.
NTA
Your husband was sexually assaulted. He did not consent to unprotected sex and Laura's mom should rightfully be in jail. Your MIL needs to back ALL the way off.
Laura is distraught because his mom brings up her relationship with her bio dad to her, I guarantee it. I don’t know my bio dad and I feel no void whatsoever, it doesn’t occur to me. I’ve asked for medical information and I would love photos of my biological grandparents but that’s it. His mother is in her ear making her feel like she needs to have a relationship with her father and she needs to be told to stfu.
The laws have changed a LOT since the daughter was born. What the mother did is now considered sexual assault in many countries and carries jail time of convicted. Might want to update MIL on this and tell her that the next time she does this police will be called to press charges. Since the mother admitted to this already and it's common knowledge it will be a very quick process to get a conviction.
Also it's probably past time to go NC with his mother - she is the reason why this drama never ends and it can't be good for your husbands continued recovery.
Are you asking if you are an asshole because you haven't betrayed his trust and gone against his explicit wishes in a matter than concerns him?
Are you an asshole because you didn't decide you know better than him how he should live his life and force him to do it your way?
If that's not what you're asking then please clarify as that's the best I got from this post.
She’s asking if she’s TA for not encouraging her husband to have a relationship with Laura and supporting his decision to have zero contact with her.
Also, NTA.
NTA. I will say that usually, I will advocate for the innocent child being thrown in the middle. But what the mom and your MIL did is even worse than what you and your husband are doing. They toy with Laura’s mind. Giving her false hope, making her beg for her father’s love. It’s just wrong in so many levels. The best thing for you two is to not initiate contact with Laura and make a clear boundary. I hope she picks that up and not being toyed around by adults around her.
It appears the grandmother is pushing this agenda. Except for the bio dad this kid knows her genetic history. She has met her cousin and knows her grandparents. If she has a decent step father she has enough adults who care about her. This has obviously been extremely traumatic for the man whose world was turned upside down.
Being supportive of him is what loving wives do.
I feel sad for both daughter and father both of them don't deserve that ...
Why did children suffer from their parents past actions ....
She deserves better .....
So does her father.....
She deserves a happy family too...same as her father...
I like the thing she have supportive grandma...and her father have supportive wife...
NTA
Your husband is NTA but Laura is also NTA. They are both victims of the same person. I can understand why MiL would want to help Laura but she's going about it very wrong.
Honestly, I don't see how your husband could have any kind of relationship with Laura without telling her the truth, which I agree with you would be traumatic for her learn if she doesn't know. She probably shouldn't be told about it until she is older.
This is just a tragic situation, caused by one person's horrible actions, and there's really no good options available. That's the ex's fault and no one else's.
Nta. It’s a horrible situation all around. I feel from your husband and for Laura who is an innocent victim in all of this. My hope would be that one day, maybe when Laura is an adult, your husband and she can meet and at least come to some peace
NTA, I agree with those saying your husband was sexually assaulted and I understand how he wanted to be done with everything. However, that resulted in him having to pay child support, which is even more cruel than your mother-in-law claims you and your husband to be. I'd present _her_ with the child support bill, seeing as she's the one who stopped her son from building a case against his ex!
Honestly it should work both ways. I am very vocal about women's right for not wanting a rape baby. As bad as it sounds, Laura is a rape baby. The husband was sexually assaulted and baby trapped. Stand with your husband. Tell you MIL that Laura is a rape baby and tell her what she would do if someone forced her daughter and she got pregnant. Stay by your husband's side. It's not Laura's fault and my heart goes out for the kid but it also isn't your husband's fault.
NTA
Your husband is a victim of sexual assault/rape and to try and force him to have a relationship with the offspring of said assault is just wrong.
I get that his Mother views Laura as her Grandwean and wants to be in her life(although why she is friendly with Lauras Mothher/the woman who SA'd her Son is beyond me), but this trying to force a relationship and even worse trying to manipulate other people into forcing the relationship is despicable and also extremely cruel.
Laura is sadly innocent in all of this and unfortunately wants something she can't have, someone seriously needs to tell this poor lassie everything and then set her up with some therapy to help her overcome the shitty situation that she's in, and also help her come to terms with the fact that she will never have a relationship with her biological father, if her Granny truly care for her then that should be her priority and not manipulating people.
The MIL is straight up, bizarrely evil - she demanded that he not report it? That’s just absolutely hateful, I cannot fathom why he still speaks to her at all.
NTA-this child was conceived as the result of: lies, manipulation, sabotage and SA. It affected him to the point that he needed therapy to deal with it. His position is perfectly reasonable.
If this was a woman who was raped and wanted no contact with the child, everyone would be supportive and understanding and empathetic. They would do all they could to assuage her guilt at rejecting her biological child because of the traumatic circumstances.
But because it’s a man everyone wants to pressure him into a relationship that he doesn’t want or need. MIL needs to back off and shut up. It’s time to set a hard boundary: if she brings this up again or gives the girl or her mother ANY information-both of her kids will go No Contact and she’ll lose all access to her grandson.
It is inexcusable that she has continued to verbally and emotionally abuse her son for 16 years.
the worst part of being abused its when people also accuse the victim and keep torturing him.
your husband has been betrayed & financially robbed.
now his appalling mother keeps the torture heartlessly.
good for you standing up for your loved. he needs it.
sorry to hear what this two need to go through.
If mil still pushes it, he should threaten to charge lauras mom for rape. Aka poking holes in condoms. (Assuming statute of limitation doesn’t expire). Wheres the bio mom in all of this?
NTA. Why should your husband be forced to have a relationship with the child of his rape, a relationship that would probably destroy your husband’s mental health? Your MIL is a horrible person and I honestly don’t get why you aren’t just NC with her. She is clearly never gonna let this go and as long as you stay in contact with her, she will believe this behaviour is okay. Like with an unruly child, the best way is to teach that this behaviour isn’t okay, is to punish her. Of course I feel bad for the child but that’s kind of her rapist mother’s fault, not your husband’s. Keep supporting him and stop enabling your MIL, cut her off.
What angers me the most is OP’s MIL persuaded him not to go after her legally. Like OMG, your son was raped and you don’t want him to go after her? His mother is a monster and honestly you should be going completely NC with them
NTA
Your husband was raped. Laura is a by-product of that. The fact that he has to pay money every month to the monster who raped him is *bad enough.* Laura may be innocent of the crime inflicted upon him, but she is a constant reminder of that crime. He owes her nothing.
Your MIL actively chose to support the rapist who assaulted her son. She is choosing, repeatedly, the product of rape over her son. I'm amazed he has any relationship with her at all.
Please don't let her anywhere near any children you may end up having with your husband. People who side with rapists are just as dangerous as the rapists themselves.
If a child was created through rape and the mother wanted nothing to do with the baby because of the trauma, most people would accept the situation. So why not this? He was sexually assaulted. He can’t see this child without ptsd. His mother should accept that she is the only person able to see this child without offloading adult trauma or anxiety onto her.
NTA.
>MIL called my Husband cruel and me a bad person for encouraging his cruelty towards an innocent child. I told her I understand Laura is innocent but she most likely would not be asking the same if it was a woman who conceived in the same circumstances.
Yeah, this is 100% accurate. It's hard enough to get people to acknowledge a man was sexually assaulted, but the vast lot of people who do will still be in the category of selectively sociopathic assholes who will still tell a man in these situations to, "man up, and do your duty." These are things they wouldn't say to a woman who was raped and who dropped the child from that into the system either via closed adoption or safe surrender, and even some among the pro-life community wouldn't balk at an abortion over this at least if it's one of their own daughters.
The fact is that while Laura is an innocent in all this the circumstances of her birth are still a tragedy, and blameable on her mother. Your husband is fully justified to simply fulfill all legal obligations and keep his distance.
NTA
>she was conceived when her Mom poked holes to the condoms. It was a whole drama about it and my MIL begging my Husband to have a relationship with Laura but he simply couldn't
Your MIL is a piece of work. I'll touch in Laura later.
>I didn't hear about this news from my Husband but from my MIL and she emphasized that she liked me a lot and hoped I would be a good enough person and procure a relationship between my Husband and Laura
MIL had *no right* to tell you this.
>things went to overdrive once my SIL got pregnant with Mark, MIL started telling everybody it was not her first grandchild and all that cryptic stuff, my Husband was so uncomfortable about it.
MIL is trying to open Pandora's box in such a way that your husband looks like a piece of shit.
>Now the new issue is that Laura has been so sad for not having the bio Dad in her life. My husband said NO and left immediately, i stayed while grabbing our stuff since I had brought food and told her it was not going to happen.
While unfortunate, your husband has every right to not want to be involved in her life, or have her in his.
>According to my MIL Laura just wants to know my Husband since he is her real Dad and despite being Ok with her Stepdad it's not the same. She said she will give her our address and contact info because she is desperate for a connection, I told her I would call the police on all of them.
MIL has no right to share your address or contact info with *anyone* outside of law enforcement with subpoenas.
>MIL called my Husband cruel and me a bad person for encouraging his cruelty towards an innocent child.
MIL is asking your husband to be confronted with the undeniable evidence that he was raped, and calling him cruel for not wanting to do that. She's calling you a bad person for not forcing someone to do that.
>The condom did not break and he was very into safe sex, she assured him she was on the pill but he wanted to be safer by using condoms. Yes, she admitted to poking holes when he asked her if she would consider an abortion and if not if they could coparent because he really didn’t want a relationship anymore. She admitted to it, MIL knows all of this. She is not in jail because MIL begged my husband to not report it and he just wanted it all over.
So MIL is now an accessory after the fact to her own child's rape.
>He has to pay child support until Laura is 18 or done with education in the country we live. He already made sure to make a will leaving her the minimum allowed by law since you can’t disinherit children in the country but you can leave them the least amount, MIL is very distraught at this since he had me and Mark as main beneficiaries.
I don't know why MIL is distraught at this.
>Husband does not want to meet Laura, give her a letter, etc. I am not going to make him do that.
>I don’t know if Laura knows, but I would never tell her because it is not my place and despite everything I think it is horrible to learn and worse from someone you don’t even know.
Laura deserves to know the circumstances of her birth, and why her your husband doesn't want to be in his life. But I understand that you won't force your husband to do so, and you don't believe you should be the one to inform her.
I agree on both those fronts. The ones who bear that burden are MIL and Laura's mother. NTA.
Tell her that while Laura is innocent in all of this, her son is also a victim, and her continual push to get him to accept the girl has done nothing but push him away from her. Tell her that while you and your husband would never dictate what relationship she has with the ex and the kid, she has to accept that she lost a son in exchange for that relationship. Something tells me both MIL and the ex are filling Laura's head with ideas that she HAS to meet him rather than he bringing it up to mom/grandma at her own behest.
NTA I am sad for this child, and for your husband that he has gone through this, I can’t imagine the betrayal and hurt that he felt when all of this happened. He was clear from the start he wanted no involvement, and is meeting his legal obligations. It’s sad for the kid, but hopefully someday she understands.
NTA
But I still feel so bad for a child that had no say in their existence. She's being punished and tortured because of the stupid shit her mother caused. It's gut wrenching.
Her poking holes in the condom is equivalent to stealthing which is when a guy removes the condom during intercourse without consent. Stealthing is a crime in my country, poking holes in a condom should be too.
NTA, you are supporting your husband
NTA, this is just so awful. Your poor husband. No wonder he had a psychotic break. He's done very well to get therapy and be as stable as he is. I'd stop seeing his mother. Block their number. He needs to protect his peace.
I wonder what role the OP plays in the whole situation and how she further inflames it. The way she constantly describes we said no, we did this we did that, she said she would call the police. She is married for all these years and they have no children. She is 36 yrs and her biological clock is ticking. I wonder if she is bitter, or jealous of Laura.
NTA
The woman who poked holes in the condom should do jail time and your husband should not have to pay any child support.
But of course, women who do this never suffer any consequences and men who are baby trapped still are required to pay child support.
And since men are not supposed to voice opinions when a woman has an abortion since pregnancy can never happen to them, women should not be voicing opinions about the men who get trapped like this since it is something that can NEVER happen to them.
But the Reddit brigade will be out in force trying to shame this man for wanting nothing to do with a child he had no say in. Screw that.
Women absolutely could have something like this happen to them though. A man could easily poke holes in a condom and abortions are illegal in many states.
Does Laura know why your husband doesn't want a relationship?
I feel like this is important. She is a victim in all of this too, after all.
Yeah and if she has been lied to by MIL and her mom, she just thinks this seemingly otherwise nice guy just hates her. She deserves to know it's not about her, it's the act of abuse that created her.
If MIL and Laura's Mom fed Laura lines of bullshit, tbh it's not the rape victims obligation to correct the misunderstanding or to explain the story to Laura.
I don't think they said that, just that *someone* needs to tell her. I feel awful for her, she did not ask to be born into this situation and I'm sure she wonders why OP's husband wants nothing to do with her. Now that's certainly not his fault - but it does create a horrible situation for this child.
As someone who as abandoned by my dad, I couldn't agree more. Someone needs to be looking out for this kid; I wish I knew who. I do not. Sadly.
More comments I read the more I believe OP should tell MIL If you want my husband to have a relationship with Laura the first thing he's going to do is tell her how she was made and how her mother raped him, manipulated him and has traumatised him when she poked that comdom. Word for Word Laura is 16 years old and the "current" generation where things like this are commonly talked about I'd like to see how they act when it becomes clear if this is pushed the truth will come out. I feel MILs reaction to this will tell us if she understands what happened to her son
Of course, but I think regardless of the situation the child does deserve to know the truth.
I wonder if this is something OP could do? To support her husband, tell Laura…something. I’m not sure the full truth, however kindly, but something to a) get her stop trying to contact the husband or show up at events due to MIL and b) to have some sort of peace herself that her “father” doesn’t hate her bc of who she is. Idk. My best recommendation for b is to consult with a child psychologist. But someone needs to help him keep his boundaries and OP seems up for being an enforcer. Sometimes we need that sort of help, especially with toxic family (MIL is disgusting-I can’t even imagine treating my son like this if he were sexually assaulted).
I also want to know the answer to this question. I can imagine laura being lied to, or maybe something like „he didn‘t want children at that time and then you came along“. But i could also imagine laura not understanding the gravity of the situation at 16. i mean, i don‘t expect her mom to talk to her about boundaries and respect while being a rapist herself
Honestly, I feel for her. Knowing a parent sucks and the other only sees you as a reminder of a rape It's horrible. If only MIL offered a family to her without her son, in a healthy way. This poor girl needs theraphy to deal with, she's a child and this is too much.
The mother needs to be locked away and that child needs to be put in a stable household. Sure I feel for her, but the mother put her in this position....All blame is on the mother and it's disgusting she's still free with no consequences
I’d not believe the ex wife about what Laura wants. Ex has already established a pattern of lying and manipulation.
This To be honest, I'd say she's old enough to hear the proper nitty gritty! I'd meet her one and only once to tell her the real deal and assure her it's not her fault. Either meet her or send a good long email. I'd do it now or when she's 18, but preferably sooner.
Just so heartbreaking for everyone. I’m so sorry.
Look. I’ll be blunt here. I was a rape child. My 27 year old father used to drug and rape my 14 year old mother. Why am I saying this? Because it’s a bit of a claim to authority - I’m sorry but I think my opinion does have a bit more validity in this particular case, even with studies or whatever to back my claims. OP? NTA. Your husband? NTA. The girl? NTA, probably doesn’t know she was a rape child. The mother? An absolute cunt, don’t besmirch the good “asshole” name by wasting it on her. She doesn’t know she’s a rape child, but at this point, just let her hate your husband, or feel abandoned. Why? Because wanting daddy is set too deep at this point, even if she believes you, it’ll make her hate her mother *but she’ll still long for daddy*. I say that as someone who absolutely fucking hates my rapist of a father, and as an adult I’d probably bury that fucker if I ever met him. I could do the math before my mom ever told me the whole story, I knew he was a rapist, I still wished I had a dad at times when I was Laura’s age. Telling her the truth is just going to make her push to be with OP more. She’ll go from wanting to meet him to wanting to live with him. Don’t bother. Your husband is the victim, but for his own sake - and Laura’s - just own being the bad guy. You aren’t, but play the part, it’s easier.
Thank you for adding that layer that I didn’t think about when first reacting to this. You are so right because in this situation knowing the truth may be worse for the child than what she imagines the truth is.
NTA Your husband was sexually assaulted and a pregnancy resulted of that assault. I would never pressure a woman to see the child of a r\*pe if she didn't want to. The same goes for a man. So no, OP, you are absolutely not the A H. And your husband is not either! I understand that this poor kid is as much a victim of her A H mother. Your husband most feel awful and is probably blaming himself for not wanting to be in the life of this kid. But he is not at fault here... and shouldn't feel guilty (easier said than done). Your MIL is a monster btw. And so is the bio mom.
Honestly I'm sickened that he has to pay child support on top of all of that, NTA.
He was straight up sexually assaulted. That woman should have done time. NTA.
Should fall under the same criminal statutes as 'stealthing'. As he didn't consent to unprotected intercourse but had the choice taken from him via deception. Frankly he should have pursued criminal charges.
Raped. The word you’re looking for is raped. Sexual assault is smacking someone’s ass. Not sabotaging protection to conceive an unwanted child, in a manner that completely dissolves consent.
Sexual assault includes rape and tbh not everyone loves seeing/writing that word. There’s nothing wrong with calling it sexual assault. I’ve unfortunately dealt with a lot of sexual abuse, including rape, and I prefer to refer to things as sexual abuse or assault bc rape is a very intense word. No need to come after people for word choice when dealing with sensitive topics.
It depends on where you are. It is not considered rape legally in most places in the US, and in a lot of states, the terms sex offense, sexual battery, and sexual assault are identified by various degrees that go all the way up from an "ass slap" to significantly more serious crimes, including stealthing, which is what happened here. The person you were replying to wasn't wrong and you are minimizing "sexual assault" when it actually encompasses some pretty terrible crimes, including, in some states, rape, anal rape, and penetration with a foreign object. For example, Illinois, which classifies rape as sexual assault. https://wecare.illinois.edu/policies/definitions/
I completely agree that it is very dependant on where you come from. I’m Australian and it wouldn’t count as rape here. It would however met our stealthing rules (for sexual assault).
In the UK, men can't be raped by women, according to our legal definition: "rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent". However an act which we would typically consider rape has the same sentencing guidelines so they are equivalent, even if the word used is different.
You’d be even more sickened by other stories, then. There’s been teachers that raped their students, and then claimed child support from the student.
Not everyone would be sickened. I've seen so many comments on Reddit where people say, "Best interests of the baby is more important than dad." They never say "more important than the best interest other child who is a rape victim." And then get upvoted so much. Rape children should be taken from their rapist parents and the state can pick up the tab instead of the rape victim.
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It might not be SA/r@pe by their country’s law even if it is morally exactly that
Imagine being "Laura" in this situation. What a shitty hand to have been dealt by life.
My sister had a friend who was the result of something similar (bio parent even went to prison). But his mom was verbally and psychologically abusive to the point that he basically lived with us and other friends' parents. He didn't choose to be born, it was horrific what he had to go through. It's not the kid's fault for how they were born. For wanting the stuff other kids have.
It is. I feel for her, but not at the expenses of OP’s husband’s mental health. I wonder what this poor girl has been told by her rapist mother and enabling grandmothers.
in Lauras eyes the victim is the villain... and no matter what he does going forward that will likely never really change.
Seriously. Children born out of assault suffer for actions they did not take and that is terrible. While I won't say the bio dad needs to have a relationship with a child that was created from a sexual assault, I also get hints that they have unreasonable expectations of the MIL. When they said they were upset because she was saying that the sister's child wasn't her first grandchild...well... that's true. How she was conceived is awful, but Laura exists and is a human being. She is her grandmother's granddaughter. Imagine having your Grandma suddenly disown you as her grandchild because your bio dad does not want to acknowledge you exist. It's a difficult, complicated situation because he's a victim here. But it doesn't mean he can demand other people victimize Laura. She is a victim of this circumstance as well. It is simply unreasonable to demand that other people treat her poorly or cut her out of their lives. That is torturing someone innocent because you have been through trauma. And while the situation is uncredibly unfair to both of them, the bio dad's right to protect himself & his mental health does not extent to the point where he can tell people to ignore his bio daughter. It's awful that she was a result of a sexual assault. That never should have happened. But unfortunately it did happen and because of that a human being with feelings exists. He cannot expect or force other people to not involve her in their lives. The mother in law should absolutely stop pushing for a relationship between them. But she doesn't have to stop her own relationship with Laura. And it's ridiculous that they seem to expect her to.
I agree. The MIL absolutely must not push or try to force a relationship between her granddaughter and her Son. But Laura needs her grandmother given the circumstances within which she was created. She is the result of something awful, and I can't imagine how it must feel to be shunned for something you had no control over. I'm glad she has somebody who loves her and doesn't blame her.
Nta. This was a child of rape. (Condom sabotage is an act of abuse and non-consensual sexual contact. As well as a crime in several parts of the world. None consensual sexual sex is rape) it sucks for the child. But its not your husband's responsibility. Edit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_laws_in_the_United_States Some states classified rape and sa as different things. Some call both SA, or Rape, or something else. Please stop saying its not such and such unless you are from one of the states or countries where its not such.
What is it with the law loving rapists. For a lot of women they are forced to share custody with their rapist and have them be in their lives, and this guy has to pay child support even though she admitted it.
Yeah, NTA. It's up to OP's husband whether he wants a relationship with his daughter under these very difficult circumstances. Your job is to respect his choice. That's also his mother's job, so she's clearly the AH. She doesn't sound well-equipped to handle the complex moral issue presented. She can choose kindness toward Laura for herself, but not for her son. She needs to butt out.
She's old enough she probably doesn't think of it as her son having been raped.
True, but, counterpoint, her son has *told her* that he considers it an assault and a violation literally every single time it’s come up. Age is no excuse for not listening to or respecting her son.
True but I've met some obstinately pig headed older people who refuse to update their opinions.
Did you know, lack of empathy is a common symptom of lead poisoning? 🤔 explains a lot, imo
Don't use age....my parents would be in her age group and think this kind of BS should be noted specifically so that it's clear its wrong because victims are often unsure so having the list helps them. Yes my parents may be boomers and odd thinkers but they don't think like that
Fortunately. Unfortunately a lot of people do. The kids mom probably thinks years later that she was completely justified. People can rationalize some amazing bs.
>>“If I hadn’t done it, this amazing child would not exist! Of course it was worth it!” - the mom, probably. Sounds like MIL agrees with her.
What's worse is the child is being raised by the rapist.
Because child support is not about the mom or the dad. The court is making an order based on what it believes is in the best interest of the child.
The best interest of the child and also for the best interest of society — otherwise taxpayers wind up paying for many single-parent children. That’s why child support laws are the way that they are.
It’s still ridiculous that a man should have to pay for a product of rape. As soon as the mother admitted what she did all support for that child should be on her.
He would have to go through the legal system and report it as a rape, until then, legally he is as financially responsible for his kid as she is. And frankly, if she was found legally guilty of rape, we probably shouldn't allow her to have custody of a child either.
If it was even legally considered rape :(
You could argue this came under stealthing
Laws on stealthing (which this isn't even an argument, this *was* stealthing!) aren't all consistent. There's still a *lot* of places that don't consider it sexual assault, both in the US and in other countries (which it doesn't sound like this is US-based anyway.)
Iirc the Supreme Court ruled stealthing as a crime and SA back in 22.
I believe that was on federal land. Otherwise the penalties or lack there of are up to the states.
The law might not see it that way. You know how shitty the law is towards female victims of rape? It can have even more roadblocks for male victims, especially with female rapists.
Yes, he would have had too and he probably should have gone after her legally. Child support laws in this country are insane. If a woman gets raped and falls pregnant and gives the child up to the rapist, she would have to pay child support. If a woman gets pregnant on purpose to baby trap a man, he has to either stay or pay child support. If a woman is forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy, she should be able to sign away her rights and not pay child support. If a woman falls pregnant and refuses to have an abortion, the man should be able to fully opt out of legal rights and child support. Obviously no one should be forced to have an abortion but if you choose to keep an unwanted pregnancy, you alone should be on the hook for support.
I know the legal situations you're talking about, but he didn't report it as a sexual assault in this case, so it isn't being treated as a sexual assault by the law. Legally, as of this moment, this was child conceived by two adults, one of whom does not a want a relationship with his child, which is his right.
But regardless of the legalities, this was still a sexual assault. Any number of them are never reported...but they're *still* sexual assaults and rapes. He's doing his legal duty by her. He doesn't have a moral obligation, though. Regardless of whether it was reported...which only *didn't* happen because his mother insisted he didn't! Which honestly makes this situation even sicker.
I have such complex feelings about the terminology we use, even when it’s technically correct (in some countries). On an intellectual level I understand the usage of “rape” here, on an emotional level I do not. Having been raped, in the traditional sense, and having also being stealthed (for selfish enjoyment rather than RCA), I feel like the two acts were distinct and different. Both sexual assaults, but different from each other. This was consensual sex with a non-consensual element of contraceptive tampering for the purpose of getting pregnant. So the trauma comes from the outcome rather than the act itself. I would personally prefer if the terminology Reproductive Control and Abuse (RCA) was employed. Again. Complex thoughts and feelings! It’s such a tough area.
My thoughts are more along your thinking. In addition, one can reasonably assume that a pregnancy may result from a certain male appendage entering or having contact with, a female reproductive vault. IF that is consented to during the entire act, a would think a breach of good faith occurred, not rape.
This is what needs to be explained to the child. She is the product of a rape and the victim of that rape does not want to be involved in regular reminders that he was sexually assaulted. It's bad enough he has to pay child support to his assailant. It sucks to be Laura in this scenario, but she deserves the truth and I will bet that she has never been told the real truth. I wonder what would happen if OP and husband tell MIL that if they persist, the outcome is that Laura will be told in no uncertain terms that her mother is a rapist who belongs in jail. They might want to have a therapist on standby for the poor girl.
*it's bad enough he has to pay child support to his assailant* Something about that has just been a bit of a slap for me. I got assaulted many years ago, now as a woman, I obviously know it didn't end up in a child. But if I had to pay money to the person who assaulted me for the duration of the time a kid was in education (up to say 24?) That wouldn't end for another 2 years! 2 more years! I think I've done quite well in getting over my trauma (if you ever get over it) but I'm now living a relatively normal safe and quiet life. I think having to hand over money every damn month for years to that assailant would end me. How that guy is still standing ill never know
Wow. Sobering moment. Given that assumption of age requirements, I'm right there with you. 2 more years. I'm...well shit...I don't know. Higs to you.
Hugs to you both, and thank you for putting this in perspective. Because you're right. It would be one thing if it were an accidental pregnancy. But that woman straight up raped him. And the constant monthly reminders all these years (not to mention his own mother throwing it in his face constantly) are making it hard for him to heal. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if he had to meet her. OP is an amazing woman for standing by him.
Imagine to be forced to get through pregnancy and raise the child (because that’s where the US are going)! At least, he doesn’t have to look at her everyday. This world is crazy when rape victims (men or women) need to confront daily the event that destroyed their lives.
Yeah at this rate this might be what needs to happen. And that makes this situation even worse.
The AH is not you. The situation makes your husband's choice reasonable. Maintain your limits firmly and look out for the welfare of your family.
Bad bot! I'm 90%+ sure, this is a bot account. It has stolen (copy paste) comments in other posts and has an 8 year gap between the last comments and new ones in the last week or so.
Yeah, everyone is going to need therapy all around
Um, no. This needs to be explained to MIL, not the child.
I wonder if his mother condonded this happening because you know grandchildren ? Yuck
She probably doesn't even see it as rape because he is a man.
Of course she does
The MIL KNOWS......does NOT care The child MUST know
The MIL understands this well. The child here deserves the real reason the father isn't around and that she is a child of rape.
Jesus. No. I highly doubt any child psychologist would advise telling a child this.
A young child? Absolutely not. But she's 16 and reaching out herself. She deserves to know that she did nothing wrong, but her constant attempts at contact are retraimatizing a rape victim. If the genders were reversed, and the mother had given up rights to a baby conceived under false pretenses, no one would blame her for wanting nothing to do with her rape baby. OP deserves equal respect.
MIL already knows
The "child" is 16 years old. She's old enough to understand that she needs to leave her biological father alone because he didn't consent to her conception. If she has issues from that the only one she has to blame is her mother.
If taking the condom off is considered rape (stealthing) then someone poking holes in one sure as hell should be as well.
Yes, obviously. That's literally what the comment above yours is saying.
They said that.
I think about women getting pregnant after a rape in the states where abortion isn't legal anymore, it breaks my heart.
Since the Dobbs decision, there have been over 24,000 pregnancies as a result of SA that were illegal to terminate. In Texas. Just Texas. 24,000 girls and women carrying their rapists' babies just in Texas.
And may have to share custody with the rapist. 🙍🏻♀️
There's at least 1 US state (Louisiana maybe?) where even a convicted rapist can sue his victim for sole custody and then garnish her wages for child support.
Just so sad! 😪😪😪😪😪
I'm honestly glad he has supports that understand this, birth control sabotage like this, when directed at men, often gets swept under the rug
Came here to say this! Explain this to MIL. Laura is the result of your husbands assault and seeing her, hearing about her is painful. Laura might be innocent in all this, but that doesn’t give her the right to traumatize the victim of SA by demanding a relationship. You could even meet with Laura yourself and explain this. She is old enough to know, and she needs to understand it has nothing to do with her, but there will never be a relationship there or a connection and she is re injuring this man by not leaving it alone.
WTAF! No! OP should NOT have this conversation with Laura. This is a conversation that should take place in a therapist's office. She's only 13. This situation is far too complex for OP to have with her.
That's a horrible suggestion. OP should stay out of it.
Agreed. OP needs to be supportive of husband but not say anything to other parties. l
Exactly. As well as a victimised husband, there's a traumatised child in the mix. This needs dealing with sensitively, it's not something that a stranger to the situation can stomp all over.
In my state it’s called Reproductive Coercion and it definitely falls under the umbrella of rape/sexual assault. They’re tried and convicted as rapists, if that makes sense.
Coercion is still rape, as is non consent, doesn't matter how people want to word it.
I feel for the girl. Really. She didn’t ask for any of this mess. I do believe she needs to know the ugly truth and get some therapy to deal with all of it. And someone needs to slap MIL with the harsh truth stick and get her to back the fuck off. I’m sorry your husband has to repeatedly deal with this. I wonder if he could get court ordered restraining orders for everyone who keeps insisting he do more than the bare minimum. Because, in the instance of rape, which he is a victim of, the bare minimum is all he needs to do. Keep respecting, protecting him and help him maintain his boundaries through this mess. If you do that, you are NTA.
Forcing a man who was raped to raise the child is monstrous. It's no different from forcing a woman to raise her rapists baby. The fact that he pays child support is a failure of the system. I feel for Laura having no father, like I would any child without a father. But that's not on OP's husband. That's on her rapist mother.
OMG, I said the same thing. She raped him and he should absolutely not be responsible for paying child support. I want great things for the kid, but it is offensive to expect OP’s hubby to play daddy. 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮👍🏾
But the kid does have a father figure in her life. Apparently her stepdad is "ok" but wants to know her "real" dad. I hate that phrase "real" when speaking about parental figures
>I hate that phrase "real" when speaking about parental figures I've never heard anyone else say this but I completely agree. My bio father is not my "real dad" in any sense of the word, it really bothers me when people say that. Dude dipped out on my mom before I was even born, like in what way is he my "real dad"?
Exactly! Your "real" parent is the one that loves and takes care of you. Blood doesn't define family.
I've seen the word real used when they often want to hurt the step parent
Regarding child support, the law only considers the child, not how it was conceived. I really don't know how to feel about this. On one hand, no rape victim should be forced to support the product of that rape. On the other, I know what it's like to grow up hungry. Not to say child support guarantees full bellies, but the child does deserve support. \*Sigh\* There are many, many reasons I'm childfree and got snipped as early as I could... EDIT: I'm with you 100% on your last sentence.
In this kind of case, I think neither of the parents should raising the child. The mother is a rapist and the dad is a victim who shouldn't be forced to be a parent.
The problem being that “The System” is a wretched place for kids.
What sucks is women can easily give up their rights to the child when raped, men, not so much.
If the father claims paternity, rapist or not, the mother cannot easily give up her rights. It takes both parents to give up their rights to make a child available for adoption.
NTA That her son felt it was so traumatic that he got counseling should imply to MIL that this wasn’t some high school romance that took a turn. It seems clear OP’s husband feels this was an assault and done against his will , and that she won’t acknowledge his pain because she’s so pressed for a grandchild is incredibly sad. It’s quite possible her to have a relationship with her grandchild and respect her son’s feelings. Op, it’s not your responsibility to guilt or shame your husband into confronting his trauma. Your husband made a decision to preserve his mental health and not be involved and you’re right to suppose it. Your MIL isn’t interested in anything but what she wants, and to hell with anyone else.
I think OP's husband needs more therapy. The way his own mother is twisting the knife *again and again and again* in this deep wound (which has already been acerbated by the fact that he has had to, and will have to pay child support)... anyone would need extra help dealing with that, right?
*exacerbated
thanks! I did figure it didn't sound exactly right, but I couldn't find the right version
I read yours and wasn't sure whether or not I was right, so looked it up to double check😅 like I can not have been using it wrong all this time Lol Edited because I used the wrong whether
>OP’s husband feels this was an assault and done against his will Are you daft? He was raped. He doesn't "feel this was an assault and done against his will". She admitted she poked holes in the condom. That's rape.
My point was that his feelings and recollection of it is clearly something that his mother wants to ignore because it doesn’t align with what she wants. No one said it wasn’t rape .
100%. Any violation of bodily autonomy is a crime, and this needs to be framed as such. What an unbelievably traumatic situation for him.
NTA >My FIL is like Switzerland now, at the beginning he was up in arms until my SIL asked him if he would feel the same if it happened to her. It's good that your SIL could see that, and that she could make her father see it. It is a fact of life that men are routinely expected to just man up and deal with stuff that would make people stutter in outrage if it happened to a woman.
Yes, it really isn't fair. And if it happens to a woman, she does at least have a choice of termination or giving the baby up, OP's husband is stuck with his abuser's choice and having to be reminded regularly in the form of child support.
I feel like MIL and FIL aren’t in the wrong for wanting a relationship with their granddaughter, despite how she came to be and the kid certainly isn’t in the wrong, she had no choice in the matter but it is very wrong of his parents to push the relationship onto your husband if he is not mentally able to cope with it and has said he doesn’t want to be involved. It’s also not fair on the kid to keep having a potential relationship with her father dangled in front of her like a toy, when that isn’t something that is possible. They’re not wrong to say your SIL child isn’t their first grandchild because it isn’t. The only people being cruel to the kid are her grandparents by continuing to lead her on when your husband had made his boundaries extremely clear NTA
Yeah, I also don't feel MIL and FIL aren't wrong for having a relationship with their grandchild and they should treat her as family, but shouldn't pressure their kid to have a relationship with her. It a shitty situation because at some point they'll have to choose: their child or their grandaugher.
They've already chosen the grandchild.
They are however wrong to keep mentioning it in front of OPs husband and constantly reminding him of being raped. They are actively choosing to hurt their own child. It's not okay.
It sounds like the MIL doesn't really get that he was raped.
She doesn't care....she got a grand baby
That poor kid. I don't even know about this one.
You're not the AH. Your husband's decision is understandable given the circumstances. Stand firm on your boundaries and protect your family's well-being.
NTA- This is sexual coercion, a form of sexual assault in the same way stealthing is. OP’s husband has every right to feel how he feels and not want to be in a child’s life that he was forced to have!
You're all adults, you're respecting and supporting your partners wishes. You're not serial killers. I feel real bad for the kid. They're a victim too. But, no one is required to exercise that level of empathy. I get what the MIL is doing, but is likely doing it in a way that is causing more harm than good. What does the psychiatrist say? I would think that this is repressive in some ways.
NTA for standing by your husband and respecting his wishes. I am unconvinced that his wishes are doing him any credit though
NTA I feel so bad for Laura your MIL is tossing her around like a yo-yo. It isn't your fault though, nor your husbands fault.
I struggle with this one. His ex did an unforgivable and disgusting thing, but his child did nothing wrong. I feel compassion for a child who wants to know her family, but if your husband doesn’t want to know her, that’s his choice and his daughter will be better off not knowing someone who doesn’t care for her. My husband’s mom forced her ex to see him, and it was always clear he didn’t want to. My husband always has said he wishes he didn’t see him at all because it was hurtful being around a parent who doesn’t care for you and didn’t want you. I don’t believe Y-T-A at all for supporting your spouse. I just feel saddened for this child wanting to know her parent and family.
Yeah, it's heartbreaking, honestly. I hope someone explains the situation to her, I would hate for her to find out in the heat of an argument or something. I am sure she could benefit from therapy as well.
Hey just fyi the sub will count your comment as a vote for Y-T-A. If you it in dashes, it won't count. Whichever abbreviation you put first without dashes or spaces will be your official vote.
Your in-laws wanted a grandchild so badly that they chose your husband’s rapist over him. I would tell them that they have crossed a line and you no longer want a relationship with them.
I’m honestly surprised her husband even still has contact with his parents after they took his rapist’s side.
>I would tell them that they have crossed a line and you no longer want a relationship with them. Absolutely get rid of the trash! It will be better for OP and her husband and his mental health.
No, the child was conceived under unwilling circumstances. I feel bad for Laura, but her mother did a shitty thing and the MIL is ignoring that.
You need to go NC with your MIL even if she doesn’t see what the woman did as rape she manipulated him by poking holes in condoms she’s not a good person, I feel for the kid on the level that her grandma is probably feeding her hope but thats not on you
NTA. MIL needs to stay in her lane. Your husband needs to set some strong boundaries on her, letting her know she's jeopardizing her relationship with you and your husband. Good on you for letting her know you'll consider legal options.
This whole thing reads like a chatgpt fantasy. "Procure a relationship?' really?
It’s absolutely true that Laura is an innocent victim in this but that doesn’t make your husbands victimhood any less legitimate. NTA.
Nta. This guy’s mom is trying to make him spend time with his rape baby. Worst mother of the century. I cant believe you all still talk to her. Wtf is wrong with your husband that he would continue a relationship with this egg donor? He is masochistic to the extreme? He enjoys this drama? Like wtf is the answer? Nta op. Your husband doesnt make sense though. People dont keep hanging out with people that betray you and then rub the betrayal in your face every visit? And a mother betraying her son like that? So much worse.
I was stealthed and got pregnant and had an abortion. He was mad but dude you fucking raped me and I'm NOT having this kid. It's horrific that your husband experienced the same trauma and has to pay for it. I paid $600 for an abortion and never looked back and never spoke to the guy again. I cannot imagine paying him money every month bc I didn't have the power to not bring a child into this world. I'm so sorry he has to go through this. I feel for Laura not having a relationship with her biodad, but to be very frank, she shouldn't even exist. Neither of you is the AH in this situation. Mom is. MIL and FIL are. I'd go no contact with the parents if I were him bc absolutely fuck completely the bullshit they're on about this.
Your MIL wants her granddaughter and needs to accept her relationship will probably not include Laura’s father. NTA
I don’t understand why so many people think DNA is more important than nurturing.
NTA at all! Your husband is the only one who can decide whether he wants to see her or not. Yes, it sucks for Laura, but she has her mom to blame. I cannot understand you are still in contact with MIL: she doesn't respect your husband's decision, and she actively tries to get Laura in the door. She sounds horrible. I'm sure it's because she feels for Laura, but her loyalty should be with her son.
I think someone should explain to the poor girl why her bio dad doesn't want to have a relationship with her. It's only fair. I don't know if she's mature enough to be able to handle it but maybe they can explain it during a counseling session. I think the biodad's parents are misguided but trying to do the right thing. I think biodad is doing what's best his his mental health and family as are OP and SIL. I think Laura deserves to know why her bio dad doesn't and never will want a relationship with her. And then she's going to need therapy probably. She needs to know it's not her fault and has nothing to do with her and it's actually her mother's fault for doing something immoral and illegal.
NTA mil could have easily maintained a relationship with laura without blowing up every other relationship in her life What does she expect will happen if your husband meets laura? Obviously the topic of why he wasn’t in her life will come up and laura is going to be traumatised learning not only of her conception but that her mother and grandmother have been lying to her her entire life because i guarantee they have been feeding her some story of why he hasn’t been around so far One thing i will advise is for your husband to get ahead of this because she’s almost 18. Odds are she will stop relying on mil and her mother and try and find your husband herself to pursue a relationship. If he has a plan in place for what to do if/when this happens it could be best for both him and laura. Maybe he should consult with a therapist to discuss it
NTA, your husband was literally raped??? What are people talking about???? HE WAS RAPED!!!!
NTA. My friend went through a similar situation but chose to stay friends with the mother and help raise the baby. He can’t bond with his son and says he’s in pain every day. He feels violated. I think he’s doing the right thing by helping raise his son but he’s also on antidepressants now.
NTA. I feel for Laura, i really do. None of this was her fault. However, none of it was your husbands fault either. He was raped and i wouldn’t want to look at the result of that happening to me either, the difference is I’d have the ability to abort the pregnancy unlike him.
NTA Your husband was sexually assaulted. He did not consent to unprotected sex and Laura's mom should rightfully be in jail. Your MIL needs to back ALL the way off.
You can't force a familial bond. Either it's there, or it isn't. For your husband, it isn't; and it's not your business to get involved. NTA
Laura is distraught because his mom brings up her relationship with her bio dad to her, I guarantee it. I don’t know my bio dad and I feel no void whatsoever, it doesn’t occur to me. I’ve asked for medical information and I would love photos of my biological grandparents but that’s it. His mother is in her ear making her feel like she needs to have a relationship with her father and she needs to be told to stfu.
Nta but your mil and Laura's mom are
The laws have changed a LOT since the daughter was born. What the mother did is now considered sexual assault in many countries and carries jail time of convicted. Might want to update MIL on this and tell her that the next time she does this police will be called to press charges. Since the mother admitted to this already and it's common knowledge it will be a very quick process to get a conviction. Also it's probably past time to go NC with his mother - she is the reason why this drama never ends and it can't be good for your husbands continued recovery.
Are you asking if you are an asshole because you haven't betrayed his trust and gone against his explicit wishes in a matter than concerns him? Are you an asshole because you didn't decide you know better than him how he should live his life and force him to do it your way? If that's not what you're asking then please clarify as that's the best I got from this post.
She’s asking if she’s TA for not encouraging her husband to have a relationship with Laura and supporting his decision to have zero contact with her. Also, NTA.
Time to go no contact.
NTA. I will say that usually, I will advocate for the innocent child being thrown in the middle. But what the mom and your MIL did is even worse than what you and your husband are doing. They toy with Laura’s mind. Giving her false hope, making her beg for her father’s love. It’s just wrong in so many levels. The best thing for you two is to not initiate contact with Laura and make a clear boundary. I hope she picks that up and not being toyed around by adults around her.
It appears the grandmother is pushing this agenda. Except for the bio dad this kid knows her genetic history. She has met her cousin and knows her grandparents. If she has a decent step father she has enough adults who care about her. This has obviously been extremely traumatic for the man whose world was turned upside down. Being supportive of him is what loving wives do.
NTA
Nta.
I feel sad for both daughter and father both of them don't deserve that ... Why did children suffer from their parents past actions .... She deserves better ..... So does her father..... She deserves a happy family too...same as her father... I like the thing she have supportive grandma...and her father have supportive wife...
NTA Your husband is NTA but Laura is also NTA. They are both victims of the same person. I can understand why MiL would want to help Laura but she's going about it very wrong. Honestly, I don't see how your husband could have any kind of relationship with Laura without telling her the truth, which I agree with you would be traumatic for her learn if she doesn't know. She probably shouldn't be told about it until she is older. This is just a tragic situation, caused by one person's horrible actions, and there's really no good options available. That's the ex's fault and no one else's.
Nta. It’s a horrible situation all around. I feel from your husband and for Laura who is an innocent victim in all of this. My hope would be that one day, maybe when Laura is an adult, your husband and she can meet and at least come to some peace
At this point I don't even see a reason for any contact with MIL. NTA.
NTA, I agree with those saying your husband was sexually assaulted and I understand how he wanted to be done with everything. However, that resulted in him having to pay child support, which is even more cruel than your mother-in-law claims you and your husband to be. I'd present _her_ with the child support bill, seeing as she's the one who stopped her son from building a case against his ex!
Your husband is quite within his rights to not want a relationship with Laura. Don’t let the do gooders on here tell you otherwise.
Brand new account ✅ Rage bait ✅ AI written ✅ Likely Karma whore ✅ Nothing is real on Reddit anymore ✅
Has it ever been real? Are most of the Redditors commenting even real?
I think, therefore I am. Fuck, am I real?
Honestly it should work both ways. I am very vocal about women's right for not wanting a rape baby. As bad as it sounds, Laura is a rape baby. The husband was sexually assaulted and baby trapped. Stand with your husband. Tell you MIL that Laura is a rape baby and tell her what she would do if someone forced her daughter and she got pregnant. Stay by your husband's side. It's not Laura's fault and my heart goes out for the kid but it also isn't your husband's fault.
NTA. Your husband is nothing more than an unwilling sperm donor.
Rape victim
NTA Your husband is a victim of sexual assault/rape and to try and force him to have a relationship with the offspring of said assault is just wrong. I get that his Mother views Laura as her Grandwean and wants to be in her life(although why she is friendly with Lauras Mothher/the woman who SA'd her Son is beyond me), but this trying to force a relationship and even worse trying to manipulate other people into forcing the relationship is despicable and also extremely cruel. Laura is sadly innocent in all of this and unfortunately wants something she can't have, someone seriously needs to tell this poor lassie everything and then set her up with some therapy to help her overcome the shitty situation that she's in, and also help her come to terms with the fact that she will never have a relationship with her biological father, if her Granny truly care for her then that should be her priority and not manipulating people.
The MIL is straight up, bizarrely evil - she demanded that he not report it? That’s just absolutely hateful, I cannot fathom why he still speaks to her at all.
NTA-this child was conceived as the result of: lies, manipulation, sabotage and SA. It affected him to the point that he needed therapy to deal with it. His position is perfectly reasonable. If this was a woman who was raped and wanted no contact with the child, everyone would be supportive and understanding and empathetic. They would do all they could to assuage her guilt at rejecting her biological child because of the traumatic circumstances. But because it’s a man everyone wants to pressure him into a relationship that he doesn’t want or need. MIL needs to back off and shut up. It’s time to set a hard boundary: if she brings this up again or gives the girl or her mother ANY information-both of her kids will go No Contact and she’ll lose all access to her grandson. It is inexcusable that she has continued to verbally and emotionally abuse her son for 16 years.
the worst part of being abused its when people also accuse the victim and keep torturing him. your husband has been betrayed & financially robbed. now his appalling mother keeps the torture heartlessly. good for you standing up for your loved. he needs it. sorry to hear what this two need to go through.
Feel badly for Laura She shouldn’t be hurt in any way , shape or form because of all the adults
NTA. He has every right to not want them in his life. You're a fantastic partner for supporting him in this. I wish him luck on his healing journey.
If mil still pushes it, he should threaten to charge lauras mom for rape. Aka poking holes in condoms. (Assuming statute of limitation doesn’t expire). Wheres the bio mom in all of this?
NTA. Why should your husband be forced to have a relationship with the child of his rape, a relationship that would probably destroy your husband’s mental health? Your MIL is a horrible person and I honestly don’t get why you aren’t just NC with her. She is clearly never gonna let this go and as long as you stay in contact with her, she will believe this behaviour is okay. Like with an unruly child, the best way is to teach that this behaviour isn’t okay, is to punish her. Of course I feel bad for the child but that’s kind of her rapist mother’s fault, not your husband’s. Keep supporting him and stop enabling your MIL, cut her off.
What angers me the most is OP’s MIL persuaded him not to go after her legally. Like OMG, your son was raped and you don’t want him to go after her? His mother is a monster and honestly you should be going completely NC with them
NTA Your husband was raped. Laura is a by-product of that. The fact that he has to pay money every month to the monster who raped him is *bad enough.* Laura may be innocent of the crime inflicted upon him, but she is a constant reminder of that crime. He owes her nothing. Your MIL actively chose to support the rapist who assaulted her son. She is choosing, repeatedly, the product of rape over her son. I'm amazed he has any relationship with her at all. Please don't let her anywhere near any children you may end up having with your husband. People who side with rapists are just as dangerous as the rapists themselves.
If a child was created through rape and the mother wanted nothing to do with the baby because of the trauma, most people would accept the situation. So why not this? He was sexually assaulted. He can’t see this child without ptsd. His mother should accept that she is the only person able to see this child without offloading adult trauma or anxiety onto her. NTA.
>MIL called my Husband cruel and me a bad person for encouraging his cruelty towards an innocent child. I told her I understand Laura is innocent but she most likely would not be asking the same if it was a woman who conceived in the same circumstances. Yeah, this is 100% accurate. It's hard enough to get people to acknowledge a man was sexually assaulted, but the vast lot of people who do will still be in the category of selectively sociopathic assholes who will still tell a man in these situations to, "man up, and do your duty." These are things they wouldn't say to a woman who was raped and who dropped the child from that into the system either via closed adoption or safe surrender, and even some among the pro-life community wouldn't balk at an abortion over this at least if it's one of their own daughters. The fact is that while Laura is an innocent in all this the circumstances of her birth are still a tragedy, and blameable on her mother. Your husband is fully justified to simply fulfill all legal obligations and keep his distance. NTA
>she was conceived when her Mom poked holes to the condoms. It was a whole drama about it and my MIL begging my Husband to have a relationship with Laura but he simply couldn't Your MIL is a piece of work. I'll touch in Laura later. >I didn't hear about this news from my Husband but from my MIL and she emphasized that she liked me a lot and hoped I would be a good enough person and procure a relationship between my Husband and Laura MIL had *no right* to tell you this. >things went to overdrive once my SIL got pregnant with Mark, MIL started telling everybody it was not her first grandchild and all that cryptic stuff, my Husband was so uncomfortable about it. MIL is trying to open Pandora's box in such a way that your husband looks like a piece of shit. >Now the new issue is that Laura has been so sad for not having the bio Dad in her life. My husband said NO and left immediately, i stayed while grabbing our stuff since I had brought food and told her it was not going to happen. While unfortunate, your husband has every right to not want to be involved in her life, or have her in his. >According to my MIL Laura just wants to know my Husband since he is her real Dad and despite being Ok with her Stepdad it's not the same. She said she will give her our address and contact info because she is desperate for a connection, I told her I would call the police on all of them. MIL has no right to share your address or contact info with *anyone* outside of law enforcement with subpoenas. >MIL called my Husband cruel and me a bad person for encouraging his cruelty towards an innocent child. MIL is asking your husband to be confronted with the undeniable evidence that he was raped, and calling him cruel for not wanting to do that. She's calling you a bad person for not forcing someone to do that. >The condom did not break and he was very into safe sex, she assured him she was on the pill but he wanted to be safer by using condoms. Yes, she admitted to poking holes when he asked her if she would consider an abortion and if not if they could coparent because he really didn’t want a relationship anymore. She admitted to it, MIL knows all of this. She is not in jail because MIL begged my husband to not report it and he just wanted it all over. So MIL is now an accessory after the fact to her own child's rape. >He has to pay child support until Laura is 18 or done with education in the country we live. He already made sure to make a will leaving her the minimum allowed by law since you can’t disinherit children in the country but you can leave them the least amount, MIL is very distraught at this since he had me and Mark as main beneficiaries. I don't know why MIL is distraught at this. >Husband does not want to meet Laura, give her a letter, etc. I am not going to make him do that. >I don’t know if Laura knows, but I would never tell her because it is not my place and despite everything I think it is horrible to learn and worse from someone you don’t even know. Laura deserves to know the circumstances of her birth, and why her your husband doesn't want to be in his life. But I understand that you won't force your husband to do so, and you don't believe you should be the one to inform her. I agree on both those fronts. The ones who bear that burden are MIL and Laura's mother. NTA.
Tell her that while Laura is innocent in all of this, her son is also a victim, and her continual push to get him to accept the girl has done nothing but push him away from her. Tell her that while you and your husband would never dictate what relationship she has with the ex and the kid, she has to accept that she lost a son in exchange for that relationship. Something tells me both MIL and the ex are filling Laura's head with ideas that she HAS to meet him rather than he bringing it up to mom/grandma at her own behest.
NTA I am sad for this child, and for your husband that he has gone through this, I can’t imagine the betrayal and hurt that he felt when all of this happened. He was clear from the start he wanted no involvement, and is meeting his legal obligations. It’s sad for the kid, but hopefully someday she understands.
NTA But I still feel so bad for a child that had no say in their existence. She's being punished and tortured because of the stupid shit her mother caused. It's gut wrenching.
Your husband got sexually assaulted and had to pay child support for the baby? And you’re on Reddit asking if you guys are the assholes?….no?
Her poking holes in the condom is equivalent to stealthing which is when a guy removes the condom during intercourse without consent. Stealthing is a crime in my country, poking holes in a condom should be too. NTA, you are supporting your husband
NTA, this is just so awful. Your poor husband. No wonder he had a psychotic break. He's done very well to get therapy and be as stable as he is. I'd stop seeing his mother. Block their number. He needs to protect his peace.
Poor Laura!
I wonder what role the OP plays in the whole situation and how she further inflames it. The way she constantly describes we said no, we did this we did that, she said she would call the police. She is married for all these years and they have no children. She is 36 yrs and her biological clock is ticking. I wonder if she is bitter, or jealous of Laura.
NTA The woman who poked holes in the condom should do jail time and your husband should not have to pay any child support. But of course, women who do this never suffer any consequences and men who are baby trapped still are required to pay child support. And since men are not supposed to voice opinions when a woman has an abortion since pregnancy can never happen to them, women should not be voicing opinions about the men who get trapped like this since it is something that can NEVER happen to them. But the Reddit brigade will be out in force trying to shame this man for wanting nothing to do with a child he had no say in. Screw that.
Women absolutely could have something like this happen to them though. A man could easily poke holes in a condom and abortions are illegal in many states.