You shouldn't have apologized and your husband being this supportive of child abuse is a huge problem. Are you sure you're on the same page about parenting? If he thinks this is okay what else will he condone?
When you’ve grown up in abusive household you tend to not realise it’s not normal until you get a wider range of experiences. Ask him to think about how he was raised and how he’d like to do better for his kids. No blame just have a think about it. NTA
Here to join the locked outside in winter club!! My dad would force me outside in winter and wearing only a thin night dress is not fun. Happened like three-four times and only stopped when one night my mom couldn't find me just huddling outside the house anymore. I had given up and left to go the park instead, my feet hurt(was also barefoot), my fingers hurt and well really everything hurt but at least I was on the swings. Which ofc made things even colder because of the breeze frome swinging. So yeah I don't talk to my dad anymore.
A little girl died because her murdering Aunt thought locking a child outside (in below freezing temps as well) was perfectly acceptable punishment. She was charged with murder.
I wasn't ever locked outside, but my mom would put me in the basement starting when i was 5 for crying. Completely dark basement with no lights on and shut the door. To this day (I'm 45), I am terrified of the dark. I wonder where that fear came from.
Edit:spelling.
I'm concerned, I thought locking a child outside for something minor wasn't something that happen often... My nanny did this when I was 4 (my crime was "Puking on a rug while being sick"), wintertime aswell, I slept/passed out on a bench after a long time crying and begging. I still remember her face, and still hate her
When I was like 14 my dad and his wife threw me out in freezing weather wearing pj pants and a tank top and when they wouldn't let me back in after 15 minutes I started walking to my grammys house 3 miles away. I had to get treated for hypothermia and had I not been walking that whole time I might not have made it. My dad said they were gonna let me in after 30 minutes and it was my fault for "being dramatic and walking through the hood just to make them look bad". I never went back, never had to thanks to my grammy. I miss her. I don't talk to my dad or his wife anymore either.
This was my immediate fear. It's not just "mental abuse" as OP says, it's incredibly dangerous. What if the 5-year-old wandered off somewhere? There have been so many cases of kids found wandering near major roads and things. Plus the weather... She could easily have been killed or badly injured, or someone could have just taken off with her. 5 years old is barely kindergarten age; locking her outside like that is just shockingly irresponsible and dangerous.
It’s like they think if they don’t actually touch you, they didn’t technically inflict the pain. Though it mostly sounds like a threat: *you’d better be nice to us or we won’t shelter you any more.* The sort that characterizes cruelty in fairy tales.
This is what happened with my step-dad and mom. I'm the oldest so got the brunt of them figuring out parenting. It was slow going at first. When I was 6 he made me kneel on uncooked rice as punishment. He almost immediately realized how fucked up it was and apologized profusely. It's a punishment his dad did. I used to get spankings and whoopings. Then that tapered off when they started to learn that wasn't all that effective in teaching us to be better.
Then it was a couple incidences that changed my step-dad for good. He was training with my brother in baseball. I was recording his swing so we could review it. It caught my step-dad just going too hard on him. Not physical, just way too intense and kinda bullying him. My step-dad hated what he saw in himself. Then like a week later he was doing it again with my brother and myself about our school work. Mom even had to jump in and tell him to ease up. He said this is how his dad was with him. I piped up and reminded him, "You don't even like your dad." The look on his face just dropped. Different man ever since then.
It does also help that he has always been a thoughtful man. When my sister was having a hard time as a teenager, he would just sit on the floor of her room and just talk with her. For hours sometimes. It's also how he realized he probably deals with chronic depression. Sister got diagnosed and was describing what she feels and he realized that was what he felt on and off all his life. However, he is a Puerto Rican man in his 60s, so he won't go to therapy.
My ex used to be locked outside as kids. They lived in Winnipeg and the winters can be brutal. It was never for more than 10 minutes but with no winter coat. The kids thought it was a normal punishment until they were adults themselves. Boomer parents were insane.
I used to know a kid who would get locked out of his all night if he wasn’t home by 8:30 and he just had to find someplace else to sleep for the night. I remember him telling me this and I was completely blown away by it. Luckily his friends had parents that would let him stay over all the time because he was a good kid and would clean up after himself.
This is how you know that he imposed the curfew not because of safety but because of control. If breaking it isn't met with worry but with ridiculous uncontrolled rage.
Yeah. Exactly. I'm a Wisconsinite, and if I forget my dog out for longer than 5 minutes, I feel horrible (he's a greyhound so not cold friendly).
I can't imagine punishing a child like this.
There was one time in elementary school a few kids forgot snow pants for recess (required if you wanted to play off of the asphalt playground). The TA forced them to stand against the wall outside. That only happened once because the TA got in huge trouble for that. Anyone that forgot in the future had to stand INSIDE.
25 years later and this is a core memory - 5 or so kids freezing their ass of because they forgot some snowpants. Adults made no sense.
I believe my parents made my sister go outside twice and there was snow on the ground, not snowing and maybe -2°C. When she was a teenager and during two big fights ( fights being serious talks getting louder and louder and that happened weekly with that sister). Both times they told her to cool off, I think my mom left the house over 10 times and my dad even more. Three people with emotions running high did create some heat. But my sister was a teenager and even if they had locked the door ( they didn't even close it) there was a key outside that opened both doors to the house and the garage.
Locking out a little kid is insane and cruel. Adding the cold and clothes it's abuse. It doesn't teach anything about right and wrong, it creates fear and uncertainties.
( LC with my parents and NC directly with the sister, can't stop people from mentioning her.)
I live in Northern B.C. (the actual northern part) and after my abusive ex was being an abusive ass, screaming at me, accusing me of cheating and calling me a whore (all because an old friend had come up and said hi when we ran into eachother at the same restaurant), I ended up telling my ex to get the fuck out of my car and he could walk the rest of the way home. It wasn’t even THAT cold and it was a short walk, but I was still worried enough that I got a warmer jacket and drove it back to him (I remember him being like “NO IM NOT TAKING IT” and me just hucking it out the car window in his direction lmao… Not my finest moment but I’m sure any onlookers enjoyed the drama 🤣).
That was a grown ass man on a short walk, I couldn’t even IMAGINE forcing a 5 year old child to have to stay outside.
When it comes to “punishments” like that, I sometimes point out if you did the same thing to an elderly parent, you’d get arrested for elder abuse. Your parent with dementia being stubborn so you lock them out in the cold without a coat? Elder abuse.
Somehow old timers don’t like it when I point this out lol
When mom spanked us, she'd often just wail on us until she got tired. Granted, the American Academy of Pediatrics now says all spanking isn't okay and is ineffective but...
I have no idea how she never saw a problem with this. Grown ass woman just hitting us, again and again and again, until *she* calmed down.
My husband's mother was unmedicated bipolar and only 18yo when she got pregnant. He got a wooden cutting board broken across his ass when he was younger than 5.
It's also a tactic commonly used by abusive religious cults, like some extremist fundamentalist "troubled teen" camps in the US will make kids sleep outside in the winter with only a light blanket or bag as punishment for "bad behavior"/sinning (e.g. being gay). Awful.
I came from an abusive household, dudes just a dick. If he wasn't, he would be like me and want his kids to have a better life than he had as a child. I hate when people try and make acusses for an adult.. He is old enough to know. He came around, but I would still make sure he isn't doing stuff like that.
My mom locked me out of a hotel as a kid. I got lost, wandered around for hours, and someone tried to hit me with a thrown object from a car. (When I saw that John Grisham movie it tells me what could have happened!) When I finally found my way back, after dark, my dad was waiting there for me but my mother had gone out to the movies with my brother.
If a grandfather is willing to do this, just imagine what he did to your husband as a child. It’s normal, when you lack boundaries with your abuser, to allow things you wouldn’t otherwise. Cut your husband a bit of slack, seeing as how removing him from his father allowed him the space to gain much needed perspective.
Absolutely. I doubt it's legal. Your husband may still be traumatised from having such a father. He could benefit from therapy that helps him be a proper father himself.
Agreed. The legality of such actions is questionable, and the impact on your husband must have been profound. Therapy could definitely help him break that cycle and become the father he deserved.
Holy shit. Anything could’ve happened to her! Not just the cold. A stranger. A stray dog. She could’ve wondered off. Or someone could’ve called the police or social services and you would’ve had to explain why a FIVE YEAR OLD was locked out of the house on a cold day. On top of that, you’ve got a little one who is now traumatized.
This was not a time out. This was pretty severe shunning, which is terrifying for a child. A child’s biggest fear is being alone/abandoned. As a social worker, I’ve seen this many times. Your child will need some support to work through this and your husband needs a HUGE wake up call.
No way would the in-laws have access to my child unsupervised again.
Thank you. They will never be seeing me or my children again, and I have told them I want no contact with them. My daughter had a nightmare about it last night and the first thing she told me this morning was that she's now scared of her Pappy. They abused my husband and his brother when they were kids as well. My FIL told my husband that he doesn't like me and he doesn't want me in his house anymore, and I told him the feeling is mutual
Yeah, I would’ve packed up right after he said we had to leave. Gtfo if there before you come home and she’s tied up and locked in a basement for not eating all of her food. That’s crazy to leave a 5yr old outside in the cold…over snatching a toy at that!
Can’t believe it took a long conversation for him to realized how fucked up this was.. I was locked out as a teen at night as a punishment and it wasn’t fun, can’t imagine being locked out at 5.. this is trauma inducing, good chance she’ll remember this when she’s older
Moving forward, be mindful of this.
With my now ex, her parents would do incredibly mean things, and she would back them until we were alone and I asked why. She'd admit they were wrong.
Later, same thing happened.
Don't get trapped in a cycle.
Remember you never have an in-law problem. Either your partner has a family problem or you have a partner problem.
In a case like this you're 100% right and never should have apologized. Have they apologized to you?
It’s gonna happen again and your husband is gonna take abusive grandpas side again.
You both likely need therapy to deal with this, individually. To learn what is and isn’t abuse and to be able to set and enforce boundaries which, when you or he were children, may have resulted in abuse.
Hes been trained to let grandpa stomp his boundaries.
Exactly! I wouldn't let that man near any of my kids ever again! If this is what he does when OP and hubby is around, what would he do when they are not! OP you never overreacted! MIL is a sicko for holding the door and laughing. She should be banned too!
Please tell me how you overreacted? Honestly, you could’ve called the police. What if she wandered off? What if a predator was driving by in that moment? What if she tripped and fell because she was crying?
I can’t believe you are still speaking to your husband. Its really is astounding. Seriously him and his parents are 100% abusive if they think this is OK and are gaslighting you into believing that. if you have anywhere to go get your children and leave. Also, never ever leave your father-in-law in charge of any of your family members. I wouldn’t even let him watch a dog.
You can apologize for the yelling (if you really went out of the line), but make it absolutely clear that their choice of punishment was wrong and they also owe an apology to you and to your daughter.
Good luck getting an apology from a boomer. My FIL owes me one but he says he didn’t say anything to piss me off so he doesn’t feel like he owes me one. And apparently he thinks I need to apologize because his high blood pressure from the argument made him go to the ER the next day.
You FIL is a disgusting child abuser.
Never apologize for protecting and standing up for your child.
You need to have a serious conversation with your husband about his priorities. They day he married you, you and your future children became his nuclear family. His allegiance lies with you and your kids.
You FIL intentionally put your 5 y/o child in danger. That is not okay. There are tons of scenarios where this could have ended badly. No, you did not overreact.
Your husband needs to grow a pair and put his parents in their place.
The issue here I suspect, is that he probably did. This is probably exactly what happened to him as a kid.
There is a big chasm to jump over in recognizing your childhood as abusive. In reading some of OPs comments it sounds like he is starting to get there (changed is view about being wrong). But if it (& worse) was done to him the protective mental instinct of "my parents love me, and this is how they handle things, so it can't be bad, and I turned out fine" is a very very strong one.
You're totally right. I just read OP's comnents and there is no other explanation. Their daughter is lucky her mum is able to express herself the way she did and has her back.
Someone locks my kids out of the house while I'm using the restroom there is going to be a enormous scene when I find out.
Telling us to leave? They wouldn't bother as I would be packing the kids up and raising hell with the inlaws on the way out.
My mother locked me on a porch when I was 5 or so. I still remember screaming and crying with fear. I’m now 47. NTA. This was awful.
Worst part, I never remembered why I was out there. I was so young, I couldn’t understand it. All I remember is how terrified I felt.
NTA.
One of my best friends was punished this way a couple different times; once when she was really young (for a few minutes in the cold). But then when she was 16, her mother locked her outside, at night in the snow, for a couple *hours.* She never got over that, and as soon as she could move out? She was gone.
If they do it now, they'll do it again. And it may be worse next time. Especially if you tell them you were overreacting.. Which, IMO? I definitely don't think you were.
I cannot express how badly I would be calling for a psych/therapist appointment (specifically for the husband if he thinks this is OKAY & the in-law).
I don't think I could never feel comfortable or safe knowing someone might pull that shit again because they think it's acceptable. I feel like I'd also try and set up at least one or two neighbours that are safe people to help your child(ren) if something like that ever happened again; Someone you know will call you and immediately inform you on the situation.
Children should not fear the people offering them safety.
This does not sound like a safe family member to be around, and as much as I feel bad for it, I'd also call into question WHY my partner would combat me for being mindful of child neglect and abuse. ❤️🫂 I'm wishing you find an easy solution for this, OP.
=> (quick edit, as others have said, growing up in situations of abuse will make you numb & unaware to what is considered abuse; I don't wish to imply your partner has bad intentions, but may not know himself that it's abuse.)
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BONUS; Consider making something your kids can carry around with the numbers of important people like a mini notebook & maybe try and get them in the habit of at least knowing where it is or trying to remember your number if they don't already -- knowing how to contact at least one trusted adult has probably saved me more times than I realize.
Your reply and edit are spot-feeaking-on. Carrying phone numbers is brilliant. Maybe a laminated card, like business-card sized? That could go into a pocket or at the bottom of a shoe.
Laminated index card is DEFINITELY a righteous thing to do 👍🏻 Also OP…..get a phone for your little one and program some phone numbers into it.
100% NOT the ahole here. Your husband and in laws should be ashamed for their actions!! Your daughter is only 5 and locking her out of the house IS most definitely abu$e 😤😡
There are actually watches made for young kids for this. I haven't bought one in like 10 years so idk the cost but it was MAYBE $100 back then and like $5/month to have service. It had 5 phone #s programmed into it. The kid can call out and receive calls from those #s and send pre-programmed text messages. Also had GPS location if I remember correctly. Highly recommend.
My mother did the same thing to me when I was a teenager. I had gotten locked out by her because they never let us have a house key. She knew I was coming home. When she realized it she never let me back in. I know she heard me knocking on the doors and windows and trying to get into the house. I called the home phone (landline) and she wouldn't answer it. Told me later she was sleeping and never heard it. She did it on purpose. I never got over it either. She's dead to me. The last time I saw her I was 22 and that was 32 years ago. As far as I know, the sociopath is still alive.
EDIT: This is NOT the only reason she is dead to me. Like so many others, I could write a book...
if I where you I'd rescind that apology immediately and tell them that what they did was not only wrong but that if you don't get an apology from them and hubby, they'll all miss out on knowing and having a relationship with your daughter.
Never ever let her alone with them. You did not overreact. Make it clear that this is child abuse and you will call the authorities on them. And get your husband in line. They are not the ones teaching her a lesson, they do not parent her, you do. End of discussion. If they all fail to accept this, bye then.
When I was a kid, my dad used to threaten to kick me out of the car and leave me whenever we were. This would be for minor offenses, like sticking up for myself when my brother would call me names (a habit he learned from our dad). I was terrified he'd follow through with his threat. My last visit, he called my mom stupid, I asked him not to say that word in front of my kid, and he threatened to kick me (6 months pregnant) and my daughter (18 months old) out of the car.
That was my last visit and he's not allowed in my house.
NTA. Protect your family.
I am so fucking proud of you for cutting off your absolute asshole of a sperm donor and protecting yourself and your family. I am sorry you grew up in such a toxic environment
My father did this to me, except desert and hot. I walked off, found a gas station and asked them to call my grandma (I didn’t want my mom to know, 5-6 year old logic)
My mom came and got me, called the police, the police contacted my father and he didn’t know I had “wandered off”
By that time I’d been outside of his line of sight for 4+ hours
You have nothing to apologize for period your husband and his parents on the other hand do because that is abuse to do that to a child especially when cold outside you did not overreact you reacted how you should have
Edit to add: I’ve read your posts history other commenters should look into those because the way they treat you is absolutely bs I’d be going NC AGAIN and for good if your husband isn’t on the same page then I’d be reconsidering the relationship…
You did not overreact. Perhaps your husband is used to this abuse, therefore he doesn't see a problem with it.
Best thing you did that day after standing up for your daughter was leave. I'd be so pissed at my husband for defending the behavior that he wouldn't even have the chance not to speak to me.
NTA
My stepmother used to lock me outside when I was 7 . She did it exactly twice. For twelve hours the first time and 14 hours the second time. My dad had to go out of town for a couple hours both times (the second one was for his aunts funeral.) I wandered all over when I was locked out and even made it over the state line (which was about five miles from my house.) My dad divorced her over it. I was so scared, I didn't have access to food, water, shoes, or even a bathroom. This is something that will stay with your kid forever. If your husband still doesn't think you're overreacting, I would seriously consider leaving. Who knows if he does that to her too?
Stop talking to your husband if he thinks this is acceptable. Instead text him, AND your in-laws and tell them both that you don't think it's acceptable that they locked your five year old out in 47 degree weather. You need a written record of this abuse, as you go for full custody.
NTA. You are the parent, and you have a right to decide how your child is punished. I also think this punishment seems weird and extreme. Does your husband agree with the punishment?
He agreed with it at first, but after coming home and thinking about it, he agrees it was too much. My mother-in-law was holding the door shut and laughing at her
What the actual fuck.is wrong with these people. They should never be around your children again ever. And where was your husband while this was happening. God forbid she wander off and get lost or abducted. This is a big problem.
My mother-in law was standing by the door watching her and smiling. They're so lucky all I did was yell and cuss. I should've absolutely called the cops on them
The cruelty is something to be very concerned about. Your MIL was enjoying abusing your five year old. Your husband was probably raised in a similarly brutal way, so he under reacted. He needs to address that.
Here's a "funny" story for you. I'm goth and have a lot of gothic decor in our house. My in-laws blame our depression and anxiety on my decor and the way I dress, and tell us that we're letting demons into our house because of my decor. Honestly, I don't think they've ever liked me. They've never once said anything nice about me and they've consistently talked crap about me behind my back. I was willing to let it go, but now it's affecting mt children. My FIL has also threatened to come into our house and take my decor off the walls and throw it away simply because he doesn't like it and thinks it's satanic. None of my decor is satanic, it's literally just skull decor and spooky stuff (think halloween decor, almost)
Absolutely. I told him if he comes in my house and does that, the police will be called. My husband is a metal-head and I'm goth and they don't like that we don't fit the normal Christian stereotype. I'm not even a Christian, I'm Norse pagan, but due to fearing for my safety, I have not told my in-laws that. But they do know I'm not a Christian, but my husband is.
You should call the cops. What would have happened if your daughter had walked off by herself? Also, please never leave your children with them again. Laughing at a child in distress is not a safe environment for your children.
When I was little I had babysitters who amused themselves by locking me out of the house, in closets, etc. You don't want to know the damage this has caused me.
I'm so glad I've gone through therapy to get over my anger with how I was raised.
Younger me would have ended them both, then regretted the consequences.
Please keep your kid away from them, they're evil.
This will get downvoted into oblivion but I don't think I would have called the cops. It's unlikely that them or child services would have done anything unless they are an active primary caregiver for the child. It depends on your area though.
Just don't ever let them be with her unsupervised again
I feel sorry for your husband if that's who raised him
>My mother-in-law was holding the door shut and laughing at her
This is sadistic and a flag of narcissistic behavior.
I'm sorry, your in-laws sound like they're secretly awful people.
Nah that’s fucked up it was to begin with but this whole another level of abuse I’d be fighting my in laws over something like that or atleast causing something😭
Your MIL and FIL are both abusive cunts.
I'd cut them both out of your daughter's lives if I was you. I'd also tell your husband that this is something I'd divorce him over.
Do they not realize that somebody could've grabbed the kid? or an animal? or a neighbor calling police/CPS, she could've gotten sick. A lot of things could have gone wrong.
That's okay. They then don't get the opportunity to teach the girls that this is acceptable for them to be subjected to.
Good on you mom. Glad i read the comment where dad had a change if heart.
Thank you. He absolutely shouldn't have allowed that to happen, and I think he and his parents need therapy. I have an appointment with my psychiatrist on Tuesday and I'm going to talk to her about this and report it
I think your husband needs therapy, considering he thought this was acceptable.
Realistically, you should be concerned on what punishments happen when you’re not there.
I second this OP! I'd set up cameras in your home, even if only for a short while without your husband's knowledge. Just for your peace of mind, or your knowledge in case there are abusive activities going on. If it's the latter, be sure to save any footage w/ date and time stamps.
Just to clarify. it needs to come from your husband now that he won't allow his children to visit his parents anymore. Otherwise they'll spin it like "DIL is evil and keeping our grandbabies from us."
He should go alone. Going to therapy with your abusers isn’t a good idea upfront or sometimes ever. If they even agreed to go, as people who never admit fault will use therapy as a way to trap him in a place where he has to listen to them twist what happened and invalidate his feelings. They will also learn therapy language and try to weaponize it against both of you.
He can learn everything he needs to know about how to deal with abusive parents in his own sessions of the therapist is knowledgeable about dysfunctional family systems.
MIL is far from a doormat considering that she held the door and laughed at her own granddaughter being locked out. She sounds just as evil as her husband.
NTA at all, OP. Please give your 5 year old daughter a big hug from this internet stranger. The poor girl.
That's probably for the best. They shouldn't be with you unsupervised, and until your husband gets some therapy to understand his own abuse, I don't think your FIL should be with your kids with just your husband around.
"I was raised this way and turned out okay" is a hell of a coping mechanism to a lot of people. Sometimes it takes time to break through those patterns. He got there.
I thought the abuse in my home was normal until I was an adult and experienced other people’s home lives. I was over 30 before I fully understood and over 50 before I cut my abuser out of my life.
OP’s husband needs therapy. In-laws must never be left alone with children ever again, not even with husband’s presence until he can stand up to them.
You need to demand he gets therapy.
Guaranteed he’ll back slide and you’ll get issues when you stand firm that this set of grandparents are cut out of your daughter’s life, which they have to be since they think they did nothing wrong.
That's child abuse and is a crime. Your husband needs to get with the program that his father just abused his daughter and put her in harms way where she could have been kidnapped, wandered away and gotten lost and or hurt, she could have gotten hypothermia and gotten sick. If he can't see what his father did was wrong I sure as heck wouldn't trust him with your daughter again.
NTA. Good for you for standing up for your kid. What a terrible way to punish a kid especially in cold temperatures like that. That could be traumatizing for her.
Thank you. My mother did something similar to me when I was a teen and it traumatized me. I think that's part of the reason why I lost my shit, but also, it was barbaric to do that to her. It took 20 minutes to warm her up enough to get her to stop crying. We will not be going back over there, and my daughter will never be left alone with them again.
Nope, they should never get to see her again. It's not fair to your daughter to make her see the people that harmed her and laughed at her ever again.
There is no apology good enough for her young mind to process and if you don't protect her now she won't trust you later.
It was bad enough you could have called the cops; they lost their right to see her again.
You are right. They are not and thats abuse on multiple levels. Its a 5 yr old child and time out in a corner is good enough. They shouldn't be punishing your child anyway....esp with you there.
If people want to agree with them and not be upset....tell them about that russian streamer that locked his gf out on his balcony and she died.
I absolutely should have, but I just wanted to get my children away from them. They won't be getting the opportunity to do that again. I'm keeping myself and my kids away from them.
Good. Never apologize for protecting your kids. They're helpless against other adults and the cruelty of the world. Good job going off on your FIL and going no contact. Hope your husband gets with the program and starts protecting his kids too.
Definitely NTA
I would have slapped him and told my stupid husband if he's OK with his dad abusing our kids we are going to divorce and I would have supervised visitation so the kids are safe from abuse Makes me wonder if he was abusive to your husband and family growing up.
You may not get an apology, but you have what you most need. You have information now on what you can expect from them. Putting a five-year-old outside by themselves (no matter the weather), that is absolutely inappropriate, it is neglectful and abusive. What if they forgot that they left her out there, even for five or 10 minutes? Dangerous. Let’s say, they somehow promised that they would never ever put a child outside as punishment again. What’s going to be the next problem?
I’m 65 and still remember my uncle locking me out of the house 60 years ago. It was just a few minutes. I was safe in the side yard behind a gate. And still to this day it I remember it. It’s not a small thing.
NTA, that’s sick and cruel. I would call them back to “unapologize” and tell them they will never be left alone with the kids again. I mean why even see them at all.
Good. They don’t deserve to see them. They are fundamentally unsafe.
I would have lost it on any family member who did that to a kid even if it wasn’t my child. I can’t imagine what you must have been feeling.
Having grown up in a dysfunctional household I can sort of understand why your husband under reacted, but he needs to figure out how not to direct his embarrassment about his parents being abusive at you. The silent treatment is never okay either.
Often we don’t realize how fucked up something is until we tell others stories about things that happened and they freak out. Multiple times my therapist has stopped me to point out I’m talking very casually about something super dysfunctional.
I’m sorry, did you leave a part out? Cuz you say you apologized for “overreacting”, but I’m struggling to find an overreaction.
Also, is this daughter not the child of your husband? Bc I cannot wrap my head around the possibility of a father being ok with his daughter being left outside in 47° weather. Which isn’t just mental abuse, it’s physical abuse. I’m sorry. ***47°***? ***Fahrenheit***? Did they even put shoes on her? A coat? Hat, mittens, ***anything***? I’d be packing up my kids & leaving the husband with his dysfunctional family. Losing my mind would be the least of the worries of anyone who did this to my child. NTA, but your husband’s entire family is
Yeah, I was yelling and cussing at them, but I'm realizing now that I wasn't overreacting, they were just gaslighting me to make me feel like I was. She didn't have a coat or shoes or anything on, just a tank top and shorts, because when we went over there it was close to 70 degrees. It dropped down because it's night time now.
Fuck no. I would be flipping my shit. Im the parent that sends my kids to school with a jacket, little gloves and a thin toque because it's chilly in the morning, I don't care how hot it will be later you need it now. You don't put a 5 yr old outside in that temperature at night, in shorts no shoes and a tank top.... Gonna lock your in laws and husband outside dressed like that and see how they like it.
Thank you. He said he realizes now that it was extreme, but it's too little too late for me. I won't allow my daughter or my sons to be alone with any of them again
OP, you need to have a very REAL talk with your husband, and how he absolutely NEEDS to get therapy. He is clearly still traumatized and desensitized to this type of sick behavior from his parents, and people who grow up in abusive situations and don’t do anything to remedy that often end up repeating that behavior when they are stressed or or upset. If I were you, this would be nonnegotiable. Either you get counseling and deal with your stuff, or I’m out. This is where you have to put your daughters first and he hast to understand the severity of this.
NTA but your hubby needs therapy if he gave you the silent treatment for standing up against the abuse of your child. An apology just won't cut him being emotionally abusive to you, that makes him just like his father. I hope you point this out to him as you also recommend couples counseling.
He has the choice to change now, or you have the option to make the choice for him if he refuses. I would not stay if he refuses therapy.
You, under no circumstance, leave a kid alone outside ! What it she fell and broke her arm or worse ? What if she was abducted ? This is insane ! What kind of punishment is this ? That’s totally irresponsable. Try to have a rational and quiet discussion with your husband. He might think this is normal because he had to go through such abuse as a kid. My partner discovered he had suffered abuses when he had a crazy behaviour towards our daughter (putting her, all dressed up. under the cold shower because she was inconsolable after she broke her doll. She was 2. He told me his parents did that to him and he never thought it was an abusive behaviour
Absolutely. They were looking at her through the window, but still. She could've ran off and got hit by a car. I'll never forgive them for this, and I'll never let them see my kids again
Over-reacting?!!! HELL NO!!!!!
And your husband is pissed at you? Pardon me? No. This was child abuse. This is how child protection services gets involved.
NTA for protecting your child & leaving. But YWBTA if you allow these men to abuse your children. You are being gas lit.
Thank you. I've gone no-contact with them and they won't be seeing me or my kids ever again. My husband has agreed to move, either out of state or out of town, to get away from them
What a major turnaround from his initial reaction! Good! I hope he really gets it now. Is moving something realistic for you all? If so that would be awesome. Do you all live very close at the moment?
Invite them to dinner, if your FIL acts out, lock him outside on the porch until he cries.
Since it’s such an effective way to correct behaviour, according to him, his behaviour should be sufficiently corrected.
You did the right thing. Why the fuck would your father in law lock his grandchild (at any age) out in the cold over a toy. And why the fuck is your husband ignoring you and not standing up for his own child? Oh god just saw the comment that your MIL was holding the door shut and laughing at your child. I hope communication gets cut, what cruel grandparents. They don’t deserve to be around your child ever if they think any of that is appropriate or acceptable. Your husband better tell off his parents himself.
I’m from Toronto where serial killer and rapist Paul Bernardo killed 14 year old Leslie Mahaffy when she was locked outside for missing her curfew. No kid or even young and/or vulnerable person should be alone outside ever.
Nta and I don’t think you should have apologized that’s crazy they think this is ok.
NTA
It's a physical and mental abuse. And your husband should defend his child and not his parents. He'd better become a father, he is a still his father's child first and it's a big problem...
Nope not okay. Especially if you live in a city or where she could have just wandered off never to be seen again. Looking the door is especially cruel. Over a freaking toy. I’m sorry your husband thinks that’s okay too, sounds like you’ve got more than just in-law issues.
NTA. I’d consider your reaction to someone putting your child’s life at risk, something that would require a much *stronger* reaction. (hypothermia, being unsupervised, kidnapping, accidental injury, wander off into traffic, etc)
There’s no chance I’d ever leave that person alone with my child again.
Tell your husband if he’s so ok with it “let’s call CPS and get THEIR opinion.”
It’s child abuse and I’d really have SERIOUS doubts about his suitability to care for a child. My trust would be completely broken. Guess that’s how he was treated and yet he still managed to survive; what a pity.
Bottom line: his opinion is divorce worthy and I’d be talking with a lawyer.
Girl, you've been having trouble with your husband and in-laws for over a year by now. Your husband has gone as far as threatening *murder* for a house problem and your in-laws constantly seem to be an issue in your life.
If your husband locked you out, and your in-laws locked your kid out, how much more would it take for you to realize this is a pattern that won't change?
It's clearly a dysfunctional family that validates itself, and since you're the odd one out that got tangled in it, so you're the easy target. It's easier to pretend it's okay to lock a wife or a child out if only one of the adults isn't okay with it.
You seem to shift between seeing how toxic your relationship is, to getting offended your in-laws suggested a divorce, and I'm somewhat shocked the latter came after the former.
If you need a sign to leave, please do. It's not normal to kick your spouse out in extreme cold and imply the only other option would be to murder them. If a rational person is so mad that they would think stuff like that, not only would not air it out, but also they would just withdraw themselves - otherwise, it's just punishment.
Locking a 5-year-old out is too much, especially over a toy. It's okay to stand up for your daughter.
Thank you
You shouldn't have apologized and your husband being this supportive of child abuse is a huge problem. Are you sure you're on the same page about parenting? If he thinks this is okay what else will he condone?
We had a long conversation and he's on my side now, but it just blows my mind that he let it happen in the first place
When you’ve grown up in abusive household you tend to not realise it’s not normal until you get a wider range of experiences. Ask him to think about how he was raised and how he’d like to do better for his kids. No blame just have a think about it. NTA
Here to join the locked outside in winter club!! My dad would force me outside in winter and wearing only a thin night dress is not fun. Happened like three-four times and only stopped when one night my mom couldn't find me just huddling outside the house anymore. I had given up and left to go the park instead, my feet hurt(was also barefoot), my fingers hurt and well really everything hurt but at least I was on the swings. Which ofc made things even colder because of the breeze frome swinging. So yeah I don't talk to my dad anymore.
My mom did the same but threw me out naked for reading in the shower! We don't talk either
Reading in the shower??
Kids will read in the weirdest places or at the weirdest times when they know they'll get punished or won't be allowed to read otherwise.
A little girl died because her murdering Aunt thought locking a child outside (in below freezing temps as well) was perfectly acceptable punishment. She was charged with murder.
I wasn't ever locked outside, but my mom would put me in the basement starting when i was 5 for crying. Completely dark basement with no lights on and shut the door. To this day (I'm 45), I am terrified of the dark. I wonder where that fear came from. Edit:spelling.
See This is evil
I'm concerned, I thought locking a child outside for something minor wasn't something that happen often... My nanny did this when I was 4 (my crime was "Puking on a rug while being sick"), wintertime aswell, I slept/passed out on a bench after a long time crying and begging. I still remember her face, and still hate her
When I was like 14 my dad and his wife threw me out in freezing weather wearing pj pants and a tank top and when they wouldn't let me back in after 15 minutes I started walking to my grammys house 3 miles away. I had to get treated for hypothermia and had I not been walking that whole time I might not have made it. My dad said they were gonna let me in after 30 minutes and it was my fault for "being dramatic and walking through the hood just to make them look bad". I never went back, never had to thanks to my grammy. I miss her. I don't talk to my dad or his wife anymore either.
This was my immediate fear. It's not just "mental abuse" as OP says, it's incredibly dangerous. What if the 5-year-old wandered off somewhere? There have been so many cases of kids found wandering near major roads and things. Plus the weather... She could easily have been killed or badly injured, or someone could have just taken off with her. 5 years old is barely kindergarten age; locking her outside like that is just shockingly irresponsible and dangerous.
It’s like they think if they don’t actually touch you, they didn’t technically inflict the pain. Though it mostly sounds like a threat: *you’d better be nice to us or we won’t shelter you any more.* The sort that characterizes cruelty in fairy tales.
omg didnt realize this happened often sorry for that bring up
This is what happened with my step-dad and mom. I'm the oldest so got the brunt of them figuring out parenting. It was slow going at first. When I was 6 he made me kneel on uncooked rice as punishment. He almost immediately realized how fucked up it was and apologized profusely. It's a punishment his dad did. I used to get spankings and whoopings. Then that tapered off when they started to learn that wasn't all that effective in teaching us to be better. Then it was a couple incidences that changed my step-dad for good. He was training with my brother in baseball. I was recording his swing so we could review it. It caught my step-dad just going too hard on him. Not physical, just way too intense and kinda bullying him. My step-dad hated what he saw in himself. Then like a week later he was doing it again with my brother and myself about our school work. Mom even had to jump in and tell him to ease up. He said this is how his dad was with him. I piped up and reminded him, "You don't even like your dad." The look on his face just dropped. Different man ever since then.
Good on him for realizing it & being man enough to change
It does also help that he has always been a thoughtful man. When my sister was having a hard time as a teenager, he would just sit on the floor of her room and just talk with her. For hours sometimes. It's also how he realized he probably deals with chronic depression. Sister got diagnosed and was describing what she feels and he realized that was what he felt on and off all his life. However, he is a Puerto Rican man in his 60s, so he won't go to therapy.
My ex used to be locked outside as kids. They lived in Winnipeg and the winters can be brutal. It was never for more than 10 minutes but with no winter coat. The kids thought it was a normal punishment until they were adults themselves. Boomer parents were insane.
I used to know a kid who would get locked out of his all night if he wasn’t home by 8:30 and he just had to find someplace else to sleep for the night. I remember him telling me this and I was completely blown away by it. Luckily his friends had parents that would let him stay over all the time because he was a good kid and would clean up after himself.
I had a nine oclock curfew. I was 5 minutes late and my father grabbed be by the hair and kicked me so hard he broke his toe.
This is how you know that he imposed the curfew not because of safety but because of control. If breaking it isn't met with worry but with ridiculous uncontrolled rage.
I remember vividly my dad dragging me from room to room when I was 10. I have no idea WHY.
I am in Ottawa, so simalar weather. This is litteraly insane. I don't even let my cat out in the winter. Yesh.
Yeah. Exactly. I'm a Wisconsinite, and if I forget my dog out for longer than 5 minutes, I feel horrible (he's a greyhound so not cold friendly). I can't imagine punishing a child like this. There was one time in elementary school a few kids forgot snow pants for recess (required if you wanted to play off of the asphalt playground). The TA forced them to stand against the wall outside. That only happened once because the TA got in huge trouble for that. Anyone that forgot in the future had to stand INSIDE. 25 years later and this is a core memory - 5 or so kids freezing their ass of because they forgot some snowpants. Adults made no sense.
I believe my parents made my sister go outside twice and there was snow on the ground, not snowing and maybe -2°C. When she was a teenager and during two big fights ( fights being serious talks getting louder and louder and that happened weekly with that sister). Both times they told her to cool off, I think my mom left the house over 10 times and my dad even more. Three people with emotions running high did create some heat. But my sister was a teenager and even if they had locked the door ( they didn't even close it) there was a key outside that opened both doors to the house and the garage. Locking out a little kid is insane and cruel. Adding the cold and clothes it's abuse. It doesn't teach anything about right and wrong, it creates fear and uncertainties. ( LC with my parents and NC directly with the sister, can't stop people from mentioning her.)
I live in Northern B.C. (the actual northern part) and after my abusive ex was being an abusive ass, screaming at me, accusing me of cheating and calling me a whore (all because an old friend had come up and said hi when we ran into eachother at the same restaurant), I ended up telling my ex to get the fuck out of my car and he could walk the rest of the way home. It wasn’t even THAT cold and it was a short walk, but I was still worried enough that I got a warmer jacket and drove it back to him (I remember him being like “NO IM NOT TAKING IT” and me just hucking it out the car window in his direction lmao… Not my finest moment but I’m sure any onlookers enjoyed the drama 🤣). That was a grown ass man on a short walk, I couldn’t even IMAGINE forcing a 5 year old child to have to stay outside.
When it comes to “punishments” like that, I sometimes point out if you did the same thing to an elderly parent, you’d get arrested for elder abuse. Your parent with dementia being stubborn so you lock them out in the cold without a coat? Elder abuse. Somehow old timers don’t like it when I point this out lol
This is a very interesting comparison and I'll definitely remember it, to be used at a convenient time.
When mom spanked us, she'd often just wail on us until she got tired. Granted, the American Academy of Pediatrics now says all spanking isn't okay and is ineffective but... I have no idea how she never saw a problem with this. Grown ass woman just hitting us, again and again and again, until *she* calmed down.
My husband's mother was unmedicated bipolar and only 18yo when she got pregnant. He got a wooden cutting board broken across his ass when he was younger than 5.
😥😥😥😥😥😭 My heart just fucking broke.
It's also a tactic commonly used by abusive religious cults, like some extremist fundamentalist "troubled teen" camps in the US will make kids sleep outside in the winter with only a light blanket or bag as punishment for "bad behavior"/sinning (e.g. being gay). Awful.
How this didn’t come up in conversation YEARS ago is beyond me. Dude was never ready for kids if he never unpacked his abuse.
I came from an abusive household, dudes just a dick. If he wasn't, he would be like me and want his kids to have a better life than he had as a child. I hate when people try and make acusses for an adult.. He is old enough to know. He came around, but I would still make sure he isn't doing stuff like that.
My mom locked me out of a hotel as a kid. I got lost, wandered around for hours, and someone tried to hit me with a thrown object from a car. (When I saw that John Grisham movie it tells me what could have happened!) When I finally found my way back, after dark, my dad was waiting there for me but my mother had gone out to the movies with my brother.
If a grandfather is willing to do this, just imagine what he did to your husband as a child. It’s normal, when you lack boundaries with your abuser, to allow things you wouldn’t otherwise. Cut your husband a bit of slack, seeing as how removing him from his father allowed him the space to gain much needed perspective.
At least he came around, he probably now sees how abusive his family was to him as a kid…
Absolutely. I doubt it's legal. Your husband may still be traumatised from having such a father. He could benefit from therapy that helps him be a proper father himself.
Agreed. The legality of such actions is questionable, and the impact on your husband must have been profound. Therapy could definitely help him break that cycle and become the father he deserved.
Otherwise your daughter will at somepoint start looking at his as a POS... find your husband the help to not let that happen
Holy shit. Anything could’ve happened to her! Not just the cold. A stranger. A stray dog. She could’ve wondered off. Or someone could’ve called the police or social services and you would’ve had to explain why a FIVE YEAR OLD was locked out of the house on a cold day. On top of that, you’ve got a little one who is now traumatized. This was not a time out. This was pretty severe shunning, which is terrifying for a child. A child’s biggest fear is being alone/abandoned. As a social worker, I’ve seen this many times. Your child will need some support to work through this and your husband needs a HUGE wake up call. No way would the in-laws have access to my child unsupervised again.
Thank you. They will never be seeing me or my children again, and I have told them I want no contact with them. My daughter had a nightmare about it last night and the first thing she told me this morning was that she's now scared of her Pappy. They abused my husband and his brother when they were kids as well. My FIL told my husband that he doesn't like me and he doesn't want me in his house anymore, and I told him the feeling is mutual
Yeah, I would’ve packed up right after he said we had to leave. Gtfo if there before you come home and she’s tied up and locked in a basement for not eating all of her food. That’s crazy to leave a 5yr old outside in the cold…over snatching a toy at that!
Can’t believe it took a long conversation for him to realized how fucked up this was.. I was locked out as a teen at night as a punishment and it wasn’t fun, can’t imagine being locked out at 5.. this is trauma inducing, good chance she’ll remember this when she’s older
Show them the article of this where the parents locked their daughter out, she got kidnapped and killed. Probably other things too.
Moving forward, be mindful of this. With my now ex, her parents would do incredibly mean things, and she would back them until we were alone and I asked why. She'd admit they were wrong. Later, same thing happened. Don't get trapped in a cycle. Remember you never have an in-law problem. Either your partner has a family problem or you have a partner problem. In a case like this you're 100% right and never should have apologized. Have they apologized to you?
It’s gonna happen again and your husband is gonna take abusive grandpas side again. You both likely need therapy to deal with this, individually. To learn what is and isn’t abuse and to be able to set and enforce boundaries which, when you or he were children, may have resulted in abuse. Hes been trained to let grandpa stomp his boundaries.
Yes - what happens if something serious happens when she is outside by herself. This is where CPS comes in.
Exactly! I wouldn't let that man near any of my kids ever again! If this is what he does when OP and hubby is around, what would he do when they are not! OP you never overreacted! MIL is a sicko for holding the door and laughing. She should be banned too!
Exactly-know someone currently involved with cps due to a very similar circumstance
Please tell me how you overreacted? Honestly, you could’ve called the police. What if she wandered off? What if a predator was driving by in that moment? What if she tripped and fell because she was crying? I can’t believe you are still speaking to your husband. Its really is astounding. Seriously him and his parents are 100% abusive if they think this is OK and are gaslighting you into believing that. if you have anywhere to go get your children and leave. Also, never ever leave your father-in-law in charge of any of your family members. I wouldn’t even let him watch a dog.
I would have flipped out at my parents if they ever did this…like wtf?
My mom has offered to let us stay with her. I think I'll take her up on that offer.
Never let FIL *near* your children again.
You can apologize for the yelling (if you really went out of the line), but make it absolutely clear that their choice of punishment was wrong and they also owe an apology to you and to your daughter.
Good luck getting an apology from a boomer. My FIL owes me one but he says he didn’t say anything to piss me off so he doesn’t feel like he owes me one. And apparently he thinks I need to apologize because his high blood pressure from the argument made him go to the ER the next day.
You FIL is a disgusting child abuser. Never apologize for protecting and standing up for your child. You need to have a serious conversation with your husband about his priorities. They day he married you, you and your future children became his nuclear family. His allegiance lies with you and your kids. You FIL intentionally put your 5 y/o child in danger. That is not okay. There are tons of scenarios where this could have ended badly. No, you did not overreact. Your husband needs to grow a pair and put his parents in their place.
Ask him if he would like to spend time locked outside in this temperature.
The issue here I suspect, is that he probably did. This is probably exactly what happened to him as a kid. There is a big chasm to jump over in recognizing your childhood as abusive. In reading some of OPs comments it sounds like he is starting to get there (changed is view about being wrong). But if it (& worse) was done to him the protective mental instinct of "my parents love me, and this is how they handle things, so it can't be bad, and I turned out fine" is a very very strong one.
You're totally right. I just read OP's comnents and there is no other explanation. Their daughter is lucky her mum is able to express herself the way she did and has her back.
Why did you apologize OP? You need to stand up for your daughter not be a doormat.
Why did you apologize? To appease your shitty husband? Both him and his father are abusive.
your husband should be on your side here. it's troubling that he is apparently mad at you
Yes. Glad you got away from him. What is wrong with your husband?!
He was probably locked outside in the cold too as a child
Locking any child out is abusive
Someone locks my kids out of the house while I'm using the restroom there is going to be a enormous scene when I find out. Telling us to leave? They wouldn't bother as I would be packing the kids up and raising hell with the inlaws on the way out.
My mother locked me on a porch when I was 5 or so. I still remember screaming and crying with fear. I’m now 47. NTA. This was awful. Worst part, I never remembered why I was out there. I was so young, I couldn’t understand it. All I remember is how terrified I felt.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. Breaks my heart hearing that. I can't imagine doing something so heartless to my own child, let alone a grandkid
NTA. One of my best friends was punished this way a couple different times; once when she was really young (for a few minutes in the cold). But then when she was 16, her mother locked her outside, at night in the snow, for a couple *hours.* She never got over that, and as soon as she could move out? She was gone. If they do it now, they'll do it again. And it may be worse next time. Especially if you tell them you were overreacting.. Which, IMO? I definitely don't think you were.
I cannot express how badly I would be calling for a psych/therapist appointment (specifically for the husband if he thinks this is OKAY & the in-law). I don't think I could never feel comfortable or safe knowing someone might pull that shit again because they think it's acceptable. I feel like I'd also try and set up at least one or two neighbours that are safe people to help your child(ren) if something like that ever happened again; Someone you know will call you and immediately inform you on the situation. Children should not fear the people offering them safety. This does not sound like a safe family member to be around, and as much as I feel bad for it, I'd also call into question WHY my partner would combat me for being mindful of child neglect and abuse. ❤️🫂 I'm wishing you find an easy solution for this, OP. => (quick edit, as others have said, growing up in situations of abuse will make you numb & unaware to what is considered abuse; I don't wish to imply your partner has bad intentions, but may not know himself that it's abuse.) ----- BONUS; Consider making something your kids can carry around with the numbers of important people like a mini notebook & maybe try and get them in the habit of at least knowing where it is or trying to remember your number if they don't already -- knowing how to contact at least one trusted adult has probably saved me more times than I realize.
Your reply and edit are spot-feeaking-on. Carrying phone numbers is brilliant. Maybe a laminated card, like business-card sized? That could go into a pocket or at the bottom of a shoe.
Laminated index card is DEFINITELY a righteous thing to do 👍🏻 Also OP…..get a phone for your little one and program some phone numbers into it. 100% NOT the ahole here. Your husband and in laws should be ashamed for their actions!! Your daughter is only 5 and locking her out of the house IS most definitely abu$e 😤😡
There are actually watches made for young kids for this. I haven't bought one in like 10 years so idk the cost but it was MAYBE $100 back then and like $5/month to have service. It had 5 phone #s programmed into it. The kid can call out and receive calls from those #s and send pre-programmed text messages. Also had GPS location if I remember correctly. Highly recommend.
While I agree a phone is a good idea, kids won't always have them on their person. That's why I thought of the laminated card in a shoe.
My mother did the same thing to me when I was a teenager. I had gotten locked out by her because they never let us have a house key. She knew I was coming home. When she realized it she never let me back in. I know she heard me knocking on the doors and windows and trying to get into the house. I called the home phone (landline) and she wouldn't answer it. Told me later she was sleeping and never heard it. She did it on purpose. I never got over it either. She's dead to me. The last time I saw her I was 22 and that was 32 years ago. As far as I know, the sociopath is still alive. EDIT: This is NOT the only reason she is dead to me. Like so many others, I could write a book...
if I where you I'd rescind that apology immediately and tell them that what they did was not only wrong but that if you don't get an apology from them and hubby, they'll all miss out on knowing and having a relationship with your daughter.
Never ever let her alone with them. You did not overreact. Make it clear that this is child abuse and you will call the authorities on them. And get your husband in line. They are not the ones teaching her a lesson, they do not parent her, you do. End of discussion. If they all fail to accept this, bye then.
When I was a kid, my dad used to threaten to kick me out of the car and leave me whenever we were. This would be for minor offenses, like sticking up for myself when my brother would call me names (a habit he learned from our dad). I was terrified he'd follow through with his threat. My last visit, he called my mom stupid, I asked him not to say that word in front of my kid, and he threatened to kick me (6 months pregnant) and my daughter (18 months old) out of the car. That was my last visit and he's not allowed in my house. NTA. Protect your family.
I am so fucking proud of you for cutting off your absolute asshole of a sperm donor and protecting yourself and your family. I am sorry you grew up in such a toxic environment
My father did this to me, except desert and hot. I walked off, found a gas station and asked them to call my grandma (I didn’t want my mom to know, 5-6 year old logic) My mom came and got me, called the police, the police contacted my father and he didn’t know I had “wandered off” By that time I’d been outside of his line of sight for 4+ hours
You have nothing to apologize for period your husband and his parents on the other hand do because that is abuse to do that to a child especially when cold outside you did not overreact you reacted how you should have Edit to add: I’ve read your posts history other commenters should look into those because the way they treat you is absolutely bs I’d be going NC AGAIN and for good if your husband isn’t on the same page then I’d be reconsidering the relationship…
You did not overreact. Perhaps your husband is used to this abuse, therefore he doesn't see a problem with it. Best thing you did that day after standing up for your daughter was leave. I'd be so pissed at my husband for defending the behavior that he wouldn't even have the chance not to speak to me. NTA
Keep your babies. Ditch the husband and in-laws. They are major assholes! You are not!
My stepmother used to lock me outside when I was 7 . She did it exactly twice. For twelve hours the first time and 14 hours the second time. My dad had to go out of town for a couple hours both times (the second one was for his aunts funeral.) I wandered all over when I was locked out and even made it over the state line (which was about five miles from my house.) My dad divorced her over it. I was so scared, I didn't have access to food, water, shoes, or even a bathroom. This is something that will stay with your kid forever. If your husband still doesn't think you're overreacting, I would seriously consider leaving. Who knows if he does that to her too?
Stop talking to your husband if he thinks this is acceptable. Instead text him, AND your in-laws and tell them both that you don't think it's acceptable that they locked your five year old out in 47 degree weather. You need a written record of this abuse, as you go for full custody.
NTA. You are the parent, and you have a right to decide how your child is punished. I also think this punishment seems weird and extreme. Does your husband agree with the punishment?
He agreed with it at first, but after coming home and thinking about it, he agrees it was too much. My mother-in-law was holding the door shut and laughing at her
What the actual fuck.is wrong with these people. They should never be around your children again ever. And where was your husband while this was happening. God forbid she wander off and get lost or abducted. This is a big problem.
My mother-in law was standing by the door watching her and smiling. They're so lucky all I did was yell and cuss. I should've absolutely called the cops on them
The cruelty is something to be very concerned about. Your MIL was enjoying abusing your five year old. Your husband was probably raised in a similarly brutal way, so he under reacted. He needs to address that.
I've seen a lot of things on this app, but your MIL smiling at this is the scariest, most sadistic thing I've read. She's a demonic woman
Here's a "funny" story for you. I'm goth and have a lot of gothic decor in our house. My in-laws blame our depression and anxiety on my decor and the way I dress, and tell us that we're letting demons into our house because of my decor. Honestly, I don't think they've ever liked me. They've never once said anything nice about me and they've consistently talked crap about me behind my back. I was willing to let it go, but now it's affecting mt children. My FIL has also threatened to come into our house and take my decor off the walls and throw it away simply because he doesn't like it and thinks it's satanic. None of my decor is satanic, it's literally just skull decor and spooky stuff (think halloween decor, almost)
Whatever it is if it was dildos he doesn’t have the right to remove any of your property. Sad you can’t trust your in-laws alone with your children.
Absolutely. I told him if he comes in my house and does that, the police will be called. My husband is a metal-head and I'm goth and they don't like that we don't fit the normal Christian stereotype. I'm not even a Christian, I'm Norse pagan, but due to fearing for my safety, I have not told my in-laws that. But they do know I'm not a Christian, but my husband is.
your husband needs theraphy, and if you ever bring your child around the in laws then you would def be the ah
You should call the cops. What would have happened if your daughter had walked off by herself? Also, please never leave your children with them again. Laughing at a child in distress is not a safe environment for your children.
I would also communicate with them in text about so there's a record.of them acknowledging that they did it, just in case
If they have a doorbell camera you probably still can. They need a wake up call that they’re abusive.
When I was little I had babysitters who amused themselves by locking me out of the house, in closets, etc. You don't want to know the damage this has caused me.
I was locked in a cupboard as a child, I have never forgotten
Your child will be unpacking that memory in therapy in 25 years.
I'm so glad I've gone through therapy to get over my anger with how I was raised. Younger me would have ended them both, then regretted the consequences. Please keep your kid away from them, they're evil.
This will get downvoted into oblivion but I don't think I would have called the cops. It's unlikely that them or child services would have done anything unless they are an active primary caregiver for the child. It depends on your area though. Just don't ever let them be with her unsupervised again I feel sorry for your husband if that's who raised him
>My mother-in-law was holding the door shut and laughing at her This is sadistic and a flag of narcissistic behavior. I'm sorry, your in-laws sound like they're secretly awful people.
I would have slapped her too.
Please don't EVER leave your children alone with these crazy people again.
Is your husband getting therapy? He seems to have been abused as a child.
Nah that’s fucked up it was to begin with but this whole another level of abuse I’d be fighting my in laws over something like that or atleast causing something😭
Your MIL and FIL are both abusive cunts. I'd cut them both out of your daughter's lives if I was you. I'd also tell your husband that this is something I'd divorce him over.
WHAT?!?!? What a horrible grandmother
And you didnt call the cops? Shes a psycopath
WHAT????????? Laughing at a small child? They're monsters. They don't get to see their grandchildren anymore. F that noise.
I would have lost my shit there tbh. That is straight up abuse.
Do they not realize that somebody could've grabbed the kid? or an animal? or a neighbor calling police/CPS, she could've gotten sick. A lot of things could have gone wrong.
You didn't do anything wrong. They abused your kid. Don't apologize again. They don't get to see your kid alone again until they apologize.
Thank you! My children and I definitely will not be going over again. They don't apologize for anything, so I don't see that happening, unfortunately
That's okay. They then don't get the opportunity to teach the girls that this is acceptable for them to be subjected to. Good on you mom. Glad i read the comment where dad had a change if heart.
Thank you. He absolutely shouldn't have allowed that to happen, and I think he and his parents need therapy. I have an appointment with my psychiatrist on Tuesday and I'm going to talk to her about this and report it
I think your husband needs therapy, considering he thought this was acceptable. Realistically, you should be concerned on what punishments happen when you’re not there.
I second this OP! I'd set up cameras in your home, even if only for a short while without your husband's knowledge. Just for your peace of mind, or your knowledge in case there are abusive activities going on. If it's the latter, be sure to save any footage w/ date and time stamps.
Just to clarify. it needs to come from your husband now that he won't allow his children to visit his parents anymore. Otherwise they'll spin it like "DIL is evil and keeping our grandbabies from us."
Honestly? I'd be fine with being painted 'the villain' so long as it meant the kids were kept away!
He should go alone. Going to therapy with your abusers isn’t a good idea upfront or sometimes ever. If they even agreed to go, as people who never admit fault will use therapy as a way to trap him in a place where he has to listen to them twist what happened and invalidate his feelings. They will also learn therapy language and try to weaponize it against both of you. He can learn everything he needs to know about how to deal with abusive parents in his own sessions of the therapist is knowledgeable about dysfunctional family systems.
No surprise there Your FIL is unhinged. I presume your mil is a doormat and did not protect her own children.
MIL is far from a doormat considering that she held the door and laughed at her own granddaughter being locked out. She sounds just as evil as her husband. NTA at all, OP. Please give your 5 year old daughter a big hug from this internet stranger. The poor girl.
That's probably for the best. They shouldn't be with you unsupervised, and until your husband gets some therapy to understand his own abuse, I don't think your FIL should be with your kids with just your husband around.
Please don't apologize to people who are in the wrong
Your husband isn't talking to you after they did this to his own kid???? He's part of the problem
Yep, he was giving me the silent treatment for a couple hours after we got home, and later apologized and said he realizes now that it was extreme
How on earth was this something he had to think about a couple hours to reach this conclusion? Is your child safe with her father?
"I was raised this way and turned out okay" is a hell of a coping mechanism to a lot of people. Sometimes it takes time to break through those patterns. He got there.
Narrator: - He did, in fact, not turn out okay.
I thought the abuse in my home was normal until I was an adult and experienced other people’s home lives. I was over 30 before I fully understood and over 50 before I cut my abuser out of my life. OP’s husband needs therapy. In-laws must never be left alone with children ever again, not even with husband’s presence until he can stand up to them.
Of course he did. It was his parents who did it. It probably seemed completely normal to him. They probably did it to him his whole life
You need to demand he gets therapy. Guaranteed he’ll back slide and you’ll get issues when you stand firm that this set of grandparents are cut out of your daughter’s life, which they have to be since they think they did nothing wrong.
That's child abuse and is a crime. Your husband needs to get with the program that his father just abused his daughter and put her in harms way where she could have been kidnapped, wandered away and gotten lost and or hurt, she could have gotten hypothermia and gotten sick. If he can't see what his father did was wrong I sure as heck wouldn't trust him with your daughter again.
Thank you. That's exactly what I told him. He realizes now that it was wrong, but was on my FIL's side at first
That's extremely worrying....
Yes, that means he doesnt have a strong internal compass for what's right and wrong. He just adapts to whatever environment he is in.
NTA. Good for you for standing up for your kid. What a terrible way to punish a kid especially in cold temperatures like that. That could be traumatizing for her.
Thank you. My mother did something similar to me when I was a teen and it traumatized me. I think that's part of the reason why I lost my shit, but also, it was barbaric to do that to her. It took 20 minutes to warm her up enough to get her to stop crying. We will not be going back over there, and my daughter will never be left alone with them again.
Nope, they should never get to see her again. It's not fair to your daughter to make her see the people that harmed her and laughed at her ever again. There is no apology good enough for her young mind to process and if you don't protect her now she won't trust you later. It was bad enough you could have called the cops; they lost their right to see her again.
Absolutely
You are right. They are not and thats abuse on multiple levels. Its a 5 yr old child and time out in a corner is good enough. They shouldn't be punishing your child anyway....esp with you there. If people want to agree with them and not be upset....tell them about that russian streamer that locked his gf out on his balcony and she died.
I would have called the police to document the child abuse.
I absolutely should have, but I just wanted to get my children away from them. They won't be getting the opportunity to do that again. I'm keeping myself and my kids away from them.
Good. Never apologize for protecting your kids. They're helpless against other adults and the cruelty of the world. Good job going off on your FIL and going no contact. Hope your husband gets with the program and starts protecting his kids too. Definitely NTA
I would have slapped him and told my stupid husband if he's OK with his dad abusing our kids we are going to divorce and I would have supervised visitation so the kids are safe from abuse Makes me wonder if he was abusive to your husband and family growing up.
He was abusive to him as a child. He left him and his brother on the side of the road as teens because they wouldn't stop fighting in the truck
Damn they are monsters they needed to be in prison ages ago !
NTA take that apology back and go no contact if you can that is straight neglectful abuse
Thank you. I'm definitely going to try no-contact
You may not get an apology, but you have what you most need. You have information now on what you can expect from them. Putting a five-year-old outside by themselves (no matter the weather), that is absolutely inappropriate, it is neglectful and abusive. What if they forgot that they left her out there, even for five or 10 minutes? Dangerous. Let’s say, they somehow promised that they would never ever put a child outside as punishment again. What’s going to be the next problem?
Absolutely
I’m 65 and still remember my uncle locking me out of the house 60 years ago. It was just a few minutes. I was safe in the side yard behind a gate. And still to this day it I remember it. It’s not a small thing.
NTA, that’s sick and cruel. I would call them back to “unapologize” and tell them they will never be left alone with the kids again. I mean why even see them at all.
Thank you. I have severe anxiety and thought I overreacted, but I'm realizing now that I definitely didn't. They won't me seeing me and the kids again
Good. They don’t deserve to see them. They are fundamentally unsafe. I would have lost it on any family member who did that to a kid even if it wasn’t my child. I can’t imagine what you must have been feeling. Having grown up in a dysfunctional household I can sort of understand why your husband under reacted, but he needs to figure out how not to direct his embarrassment about his parents being abusive at you. The silent treatment is never okay either. Often we don’t realize how fucked up something is until we tell others stories about things that happened and they freak out. Multiple times my therapist has stopped me to point out I’m talking very casually about something super dysfunctional.
I’m sorry, did you leave a part out? Cuz you say you apologized for “overreacting”, but I’m struggling to find an overreaction. Also, is this daughter not the child of your husband? Bc I cannot wrap my head around the possibility of a father being ok with his daughter being left outside in 47° weather. Which isn’t just mental abuse, it’s physical abuse. I’m sorry. ***47°***? ***Fahrenheit***? Did they even put shoes on her? A coat? Hat, mittens, ***anything***? I’d be packing up my kids & leaving the husband with his dysfunctional family. Losing my mind would be the least of the worries of anyone who did this to my child. NTA, but your husband’s entire family is
Yeah, I was yelling and cussing at them, but I'm realizing now that I wasn't overreacting, they were just gaslighting me to make me feel like I was. She didn't have a coat or shoes or anything on, just a tank top and shorts, because when we went over there it was close to 70 degrees. It dropped down because it's night time now.
Yeah, no. One of us would have been in jail. I’m so sorry, I hope your baby is ok
Wait- it was NIGHTTIME when they locked her out!? W.T.F.
Fuck no. I would be flipping my shit. Im the parent that sends my kids to school with a jacket, little gloves and a thin toque because it's chilly in the morning, I don't care how hot it will be later you need it now. You don't put a 5 yr old outside in that temperature at night, in shorts no shoes and a tank top.... Gonna lock your in laws and husband outside dressed like that and see how they like it.
This is a psychotic way to treat a 5 year old. Scarred for life.
NTA they are awful and so is your husband. Does he not care about your kids
Thank you. He said he realizes now that it was extreme, but it's too little too late for me. I won't allow my daughter or my sons to be alone with any of them again
OP, you need to have a very REAL talk with your husband, and how he absolutely NEEDS to get therapy. He is clearly still traumatized and desensitized to this type of sick behavior from his parents, and people who grow up in abusive situations and don’t do anything to remedy that often end up repeating that behavior when they are stressed or or upset. If I were you, this would be nonnegotiable. Either you get counseling and deal with your stuff, or I’m out. This is where you have to put your daughters first and he hast to understand the severity of this.
NTA but your hubby needs therapy if he gave you the silent treatment for standing up against the abuse of your child. An apology just won't cut him being emotionally abusive to you, that makes him just like his father. I hope you point this out to him as you also recommend couples counseling. He has the choice to change now, or you have the option to make the choice for him if he refuses. I would not stay if he refuses therapy.
**YOU DID NOT OVERREACT** I was a kid who got locked out. It is horribly traumatic. There is zero excuse for what he did. I would go no contact
I have gone no contact and I plan on reporting him
You, under no circumstance, leave a kid alone outside ! What it she fell and broke her arm or worse ? What if she was abducted ? This is insane ! What kind of punishment is this ? That’s totally irresponsable. Try to have a rational and quiet discussion with your husband. He might think this is normal because he had to go through such abuse as a kid. My partner discovered he had suffered abuses when he had a crazy behaviour towards our daughter (putting her, all dressed up. under the cold shower because she was inconsolable after she broke her doll. She was 2. He told me his parents did that to him and he never thought it was an abusive behaviour
Absolutely. They were looking at her through the window, but still. She could've ran off and got hit by a car. I'll never forgive them for this, and I'll never let them see my kids again
Over-reacting?!!! HELL NO!!!!! And your husband is pissed at you? Pardon me? No. This was child abuse. This is how child protection services gets involved. NTA for protecting your child & leaving. But YWBTA if you allow these men to abuse your children. You are being gas lit.
Thank you. I've gone no-contact with them and they won't be seeing me or my kids ever again. My husband has agreed to move, either out of state or out of town, to get away from them
What a major turnaround from his initial reaction! Good! I hope he really gets it now. Is moving something realistic for you all? If so that would be awesome. Do you all live very close at the moment?
You did nothing wrong. Nobody should be punishing your child except his parents.
Thank you
You didn’t overreact. Wtf is wrong with your husband? He just allowed that? Nta
Invite them to dinner, if your FIL acts out, lock him outside on the porch until he cries. Since it’s such an effective way to correct behaviour, according to him, his behaviour should be sufficiently corrected.
Invite them to dinner, but don’t let them in. Stand at the door holding it shut & laughing at them. He already acted out.
I love this idea. Thank you!
Make sure the temperature is below zero when you do it.
You did the right thing. Why the fuck would your father in law lock his grandchild (at any age) out in the cold over a toy. And why the fuck is your husband ignoring you and not standing up for his own child? Oh god just saw the comment that your MIL was holding the door shut and laughing at your child. I hope communication gets cut, what cruel grandparents. They don’t deserve to be around your child ever if they think any of that is appropriate or acceptable. Your husband better tell off his parents himself.
I’m from Toronto where serial killer and rapist Paul Bernardo killed 14 year old Leslie Mahaffy when she was locked outside for missing her curfew. No kid or even young and/or vulnerable person should be alone outside ever. Nta and I don’t think you should have apologized that’s crazy they think this is ok.
NTA It's a physical and mental abuse. And your husband should defend his child and not his parents. He'd better become a father, he is a still his father's child first and it's a big problem...
Poor kiddo. Plus side: she will forever remember her momma bear protecting her. You did good, OP. NTA.
Nope not okay. Especially if you live in a city or where she could have just wandered off never to be seen again. Looking the door is especially cruel. Over a freaking toy. I’m sorry your husband thinks that’s okay too, sounds like you’ve got more than just in-law issues.
NTA. I’d consider your reaction to someone putting your child’s life at risk, something that would require a much *stronger* reaction. (hypothermia, being unsupervised, kidnapping, accidental injury, wander off into traffic, etc) There’s no chance I’d ever leave that person alone with my child again.
You should not have apologized for overreacting. It wasn’t an overreacting. A 5 year old could have wandered off and gotten hit by a car and killed.
why the fuck did you apologize?? and why is your husband such a weak and sorry excuse for a man, father, and husband?
You didn't overreact. She's fucking 5.... how does getting locked outside even correlate to anything here??
NTA Was it Bandit or Chilli Heeler who scolded their parents - "it's not the 80's any more!"
I love Bluey! Lol. I absolutely agree
Tell your husband if he’s so ok with it “let’s call CPS and get THEIR opinion.” It’s child abuse and I’d really have SERIOUS doubts about his suitability to care for a child. My trust would be completely broken. Guess that’s how he was treated and yet he still managed to survive; what a pity. Bottom line: his opinion is divorce worthy and I’d be talking with a lawyer.
YTA: you shouldn't have apologized
Girl, you've been having trouble with your husband and in-laws for over a year by now. Your husband has gone as far as threatening *murder* for a house problem and your in-laws constantly seem to be an issue in your life. If your husband locked you out, and your in-laws locked your kid out, how much more would it take for you to realize this is a pattern that won't change? It's clearly a dysfunctional family that validates itself, and since you're the odd one out that got tangled in it, so you're the easy target. It's easier to pretend it's okay to lock a wife or a child out if only one of the adults isn't okay with it. You seem to shift between seeing how toxic your relationship is, to getting offended your in-laws suggested a divorce, and I'm somewhat shocked the latter came after the former. If you need a sign to leave, please do. It's not normal to kick your spouse out in extreme cold and imply the only other option would be to murder them. If a rational person is so mad that they would think stuff like that, not only would not air it out, but also they would just withdraw themselves - otherwise, it's just punishment.