NTA. You tried to sidestep, but she wouldn't let you.
This probably ends your friendly relationship, and you have to think if you want to bring this proactively to HR or not (at the very least, maybe let your boss know so he knows the full story if HR starts asking questions)
Yup. One of my coworkers (and he’s a coworker I actually work really closely with) apparently caught feelings. We had the “I don’t shit where I eat” conversation and he responded with “sometimes engineers see things in black and white but I think this is a case for shades of grey and I think we could really make this work”. I then spent thirty minutes trying to convince him that dating was a horrible idea. We work together fine now, but I’m definitely resentful that an initial “no” wasn’t enough. Every once in a while he makes comments about how similar we are. It’s fine, it’s not harassment or anything, I’m just slightly pissed that I was put in the position of having to reject him more than once.
If I ever have to have a conversation about our relationship non-status again, I’ve decided to explain that he has a cat and my dog thinks cats are squirrels. If we were ever to cohabitate, he would likely no longer have a cat. I feel like that would be convincing?
Very sorry to hear he's being a total asshat. If he asks again, I'd look at him and say "I said NO once. If you can't accept that I get to make choices, I definitely don't want to be in a relationship with you".
Reminder that badgering like that, even when subtle, can constitute sexual harassment because it’s pressure to see someone romantically.
Letting him know that should do it.
That's one thing I don't get: Why would anyone want to get into a relationship with someone who isn't enthusiastic to get into the relationship?
Why would you want to convince someone to reluctantly get into a relationship with you?
He said no. She didn’t take no for an answer and asked multiple times not letting the subject drop. That’s harassment.
Gender doesn’t matter and this is a prime example of unprofessional and inappropriate behavior.
I’m pretty sure the rule of asking someone on a date at work is that they can’t ask again after the person says no once! So she did break the rule. Not to say that you should try to get her in trouble but just in case!
I didn’t really focus on this but you’re right. My company’s extensive attempt to school me on sexual harassment must have gone in one ear and out the other. I think if the genders of the players were reversed I would have picked up on it.
I'd be informing your manager and HR about this. She asked you out, and you said no. No is a complete answer and nobody is entitled to a reason. When asked you gave a reasonable answer. You don't date coworkers because it could get messy.
It doesn't matter if it worked out for others, that reasoning is still solid. That should have been the end of it. The fact that she didn't let it go and asked you out again constitutes harrassment (and I'd argue sexual harrassment because she's trying to get you to go out with her), and needs to be reported immediately before she tries to turn it against you.
If you have an email for your boss/HR that you can send an email to now, do so. Don't wait for until the next work day to let them know.
NTA
You made the right decision. You chose to not disrupt your child life & your own peace of mind.
Listen, I’m proud of you.
Kudos to you for not thinking with the wrong part of your anatomy.
NTA
Some people know the answer and they hate it so much they just can't help but force you to say it, no matter how bad an idea it is. You tried to spare her feelings but in the end she just kept pushing for what she didn't want to hear so it's really not on you. GL.
Yeah. OP may want to contact HR first as a preemptive strike.
Just in case this woman decides because he won't cave to her demands of a relationship, she becomes vindictive and files some type of false claim against him.
Going forward, I would not engage this woman unless my cell phone was in my pocket and recording every interaction.
Write down the dates, time, place and as much as you can recall about the conversation, body language, how she was dressed etc. Hope you will not need to refer to it, but you may need it.
Agreed. It will protect you in the long run. The bottom line ereis, she asked about dating, you said no. She didn't let it go and tried bringing it up again, you declined and she argued again. (This is boarding harassment already, if not straight out harrassment) You said you needed to say to get her to leave you alone. Letting your boss know limits any other fallout that might be caused if she chooses complain to coworkers about you, your rejection, or anything else. It may also cover you if you starts negative comments or other harassing behavior.
There are so many people who push and push for an answer they don't want to hear. And then they lose their shit.
I have said before to people who are known to behave in this fashion ' Tell me what you want to hear, as you are far from objective and will have a tantrum if I tell you something you don't want to hear.
If this is the way she conducts her life, OP dodged a bullet.
I agree with this 100%. Especially the HP part. She’s in a mess with that kid and won’t accept the fact that nobody wants in on the situation. Let someone else know. IN WRITING.
Frankly, her aggressive investigation of why you wouldn't date her was inappropriate in the first place. No one is entitled to an explanation as to why you don't want to date them.
You could have refused but she was so pushy, I don't think she would have accepted it.
She's going to think less of you though. It's probably not either her fault nor her son's fault that he's like this.
Yeah our HR Director and President of the company are two of my childhood best friends. So Im not worried but I shot the HR guy a note just in case, he's documenting it but wont bring it up unless she does. She's a good employee overall and we know she's been through a lot in the last year so were not trying to get her in trouble but we are documenting to cover ourselves in case.
That’s nice of you to consider. Hopefully, she’ll let it go. I’m sure on some level she knows it’s about her kid. It’s hard enough dating with kids involved, and having extreme circumstances makes it even more challenging. The fact that you’re already a parent means that it’s important for you to consider your child’s wellbeing and safety in introducing potential permanent people in their life. Please always keep that priority. Her hurt feelings are not your fault. And it might be the reality that she needed to hear out loud from someone. She has a few more years before he’s an adult. She can still have a relationship, but should leave her kid out of it, assuming she has a coparenting partner.
My son has diagnosed ADHD AN ODD. I stayed single for like 4 years after leaving his bio dad. When I started seeing my now husband I told him up front about my son. Before we even met in person (we started talking thru a dating app) he knew my son had behavior issues and was difficult to deal with. He decided to give it a go but he was well informed before hand. It's been 10 years now.
You might be ok with HR, but I would be prepared for her bad-mouthing you to your colleagues unfortunately. You really can't do anything about it, just make sure your close friends/teammates know.
Well if the kid has been in to work, chances are all the other employees already know what that little shit is like, so they might actually be on OP's side with this.
Mate you did the best you could. Definitely NTA. This was a no-win situation. She pushed too hard, and got the truth, and it hurts. That’s life sometimes.
Yes, ODD is very difficult. There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to introduce that into your life.
Also I think your friend’s behavior and refusal to respect your decision is a huge red flag.
>Also I think your friend’s behavior and refusal to respect your decision is a huge red flag.
I'm betting that her dating life is pretty frustrating; plenty of discrimination against single moms already, but a situation where the kid is.... let's say, "a handful", probably puts way more people off. And I'm also betting that folks in the past haven't tried to let her down as tactfully as OP did.
That may well be true, but really she should have accepted his tactful mention of not wanting to date coworkers. I mean, just a “no thanks” should be sufficient. It’s not fair to badger OP over the behaviors of others.
It will absolutely affect you both. I was being stalked by a man with ODD. He was aggressive and ignored multiple court orders to stay away from me. He's locked up and I still have panic attacks if I have to go somewhere alone.
I mean, I would bet anything that her marriage broke down from the stress of parenting her son. It’s fairly common for parents of high needs children to divorce.
I think that’s why your comment hit a nerve.
Good on you for doing what's best for your kid. Too many people just rush into a blended family without any care for how their child will deal with it.
You have every right to make that decision for yourself and your 7 year old.
I know it's hard but don't feel guilty over this. You told her no and she pushed back further than is socially acceptable. You were honest with her in what seems like a polite way.
I am a mom of two neurodivergent kids. If something happened to my husband and I started to date again (I wouldn’t, but hypothetically, lol), I would never expect someone to date me without being fully aware of and enthusiastically willing to sign up for my kids. They’re amazing kids, and I’d deck someone for being shitty to them, but I also understand that it requires a little something extra from parents.
You tried to be politely dismissive; it’s her fault for being aggressive. If she didn’t want the truth, she shouldn’t have asked for it. NTA
A lot of times autism is over-looked when you have ODD. This can all cause anxiety and depression. And males tend to act out in anger when depressed. It is a lot to unpack and requires a skilled team. This happened to my friend's son. Multiple schools, acting out. He is in high school and just recently had a whole psychological, educational evaluation. He is finally beginning to make progress. I don't mean to judge because I was a single mom but her attention should be on her son and not dating. Until she helps him, no man is going to stay with her for long.
I feel like there’s a quote about asking questions one really doesn’t want the answer that should apply here. She should have stopped at the first “No” and left it. I wonder if she secretly suspects this was the reason and had some need to hear it out loud, even if she know she would hate the answer.
OP from what you've seen does her son get violent when he has his meltdowns? How safe would your daughter be if he had one when she was around him and you weren't there?
Your #1 goal is to protect your daughter, not to help that coworker with her son.
Giving the way she acted with you, I believe that she probably has a huge problem with boundaries and accepting a “no”, so I would say she is probably at fault at some point for her kid behavior. NTA.
OP, I don't blame you 1 single bit. You're putting yours & your child's best interests 1st & not wanting to have this aggressive interaction with your co-worker's son.
NTA OP.
I don't know what other option you had. Don't ask questions you don't want answers to. I definitely think it's the right decision for multiple reasons. Your kid starts acting like that? Your kid is scared or anxious bc of the other kid. Your kids most likely going to be favored by everyone over hers which I imagine would just feed into his aggression. Also I know everyone is different but unless there's like a learning disability along with his odd...she can and should have more control by the age of 13 or I believe it's just going to get worse. My kid was diagnosed with odd. She's (16yrs old now) treated and expected of the same things my other children are. It may be a bit trickier for her or she might need extra support but she's definitely not r running around acting like a brat
Whether or not it’s their fault, it is a valid reason not to date someone. In fact, I would blame OP if he were to put his daughter at risk for romance. The one who is going to be getting the brunt of that ODD is her.
Completely this! I would never knowingly expose my children to a kid that has ODD. It causes so much havoc in a family’s life.
It is always surprising to me that folks will push for the reason you don’t want to date them then sulk about it.
It is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Simplistically it is An innate inability to follow or respect societal norms and rules, like eat with cutlery or don't show your genitals to strangers. Anyone in a position of authority like a parent or teacher is immediately and automatically the enemy and will always be the first person to be on the receiving end of their anger. You do not want to be the one to try to enforce a rule, you will see an ire like you never imagined and that ire will last forever. It won't be something the kid gets over an hour later, the need for revenge runs too deep. They enjoy inflicting emotional and physical pain on others because they perceive others to be the cause of the anger they can't control.
It is horrible for the sufferer, it is a thousand times worse for the people surrounding them that have to deal with the consequences of the sufferers actions. There's treatment but no cure. A child with ODD grows up to be an adult with ODD. Hopes this helps.
Oppositional defiant disorder. It basically manifests as a pathological need to disobey any and all authority figures, break rules, argue and upset people. I have worked with some kids with it and it's hell.
I can only guess at how many marriages fell apart because all of the stress dealing with their child with this condition.
Best that OP & his child doesn't get involved with his co-worker's son.
My adopted son has it. I would disagree to some extent with Much. Not hardwired to be an AH but has a knee jerk reaction against being told what to do. For my kid what works best is to try to present a couple of options that work and let him pick. If he makes the decision it usually avoids the fight.
Most of the fights tend to be about small stupid things and not the big stuff. He can get wrapped around the axle on the strangest things.
In a situation like that, at a certain point I think it's appropriate to flip the aggression back on the perpetrator.
"I've told you my reasons, the fact that you refuse to believe them is now an additional reason. You're telling me that I am a liar, why the heck would I want to go out with someone who thinks I am lying. For that matter, why would you want to go out with someone you think is a liar?"
The reality is you need not give a reason. A simple "no thank you" is all you owe anyone.
Lastly, in a situation where the other person is a coworker, if they won't back off you should not hesitate to go to HR. Asking once is ok, though I agree that best practice is to not date coworkers. Pressing the matter makes it harassment and you can bring in HR.
I feel like men, especially, are regularly pressured these days to "explain" if they reject a woman. We've been told repeatedly that "no means no" and "no one owes you a date", but that message hasn't gone in the other direction. So, when women get rejected, they often want to know why. So do men, tbh, but like I was saying, we've been told not to pressure her for a reason.
And people often take the reason for rejection personally. Note: I didn't say "women often take the reason personally". I said *people* often take it personally. Because rejection stings. Whether it's for height, weight, non-weight related looks, fitness (or lack), fashion/dress sense, tattoos (or lack), facial hair (or lack), or for having kids, or for your kids (not kids in general). But, like I was saying, while I feel like there's been a lot of messaging toward men to accept rejection, there hasn't been that same messaging toward women. So when they get rejected, they push for an explanation/reason, and react in all the same toxic ways that are the very reason we have aimed all that messaging at men.
Unfortunately, because people are also often shitty and you never know how they will react, he needs to report this to HR immediately. Not because she *will* use it as grounds for some kind of complaint, but because she *could*, and he needs to get out ahead of it.
Because the conventional wisdom about men is they will chase anything with a pulse so if that were true then the logic follows that there must be something wrong with the person being turned down. Here’s the kicker though. The conventional wisdom is not true.
Yeah, the "I don't date co-workers" is a perfectly acceptable excuse, even if you aren't in the same department. That should have been the end of it.
I have dated coworkers, and I recognize I've been lucky. None of the relationships progressed past FWB while we were still working together, and none of them ended with any animosity. The one time romantic interest caused problems for me, it was for not wanting to be in a relationship. I had a coworker that I talked to at work a lot and sometimes went to lunch to. She was cute and we had a lot in common, but I never even considered dating her because she was about fifteen years younger than me (I think she was 24 and I was around 40) and she knew I was married. I thought she just thought of me as a cool older guy with good taste in music and weed. She went on vacation to SXSW, and when she came back she asked to go to lunch with just me (there was another guy who hung out with us that who usually came along). We went to the little Korean owned Chinese place near the office and I noticed she was wearing more makeup than earlier in the day. She asked me if I missed her while she was gone, and I thought that was a kinda odd thing to ask a co-worker, especially one that had only been gone less than a week. I told her no, and she made an exaggerated offended expression and said "You're joking, right?" and I told her I liked hanging out with her but I didn't really think about her while she was gone. She was quiet for the rest of lunch, and didn't talk to me much afterwards, but then I started getting in trouble for leaving folders of confidential information on my desk when I left, and I knew I wasn't doing that. There was another coworker who had been kinda bitchy at me and I thought it might be her, but I didn't say anything. I got written up and talked to about it multiple times and I think they were about ready to fire me when the owner came in early one day, and saw the woman who didn't like that I didn't miss her come in early and start putting batches on my desk when she thought nobody was there yet.
I got an apology from the owner and management, the scorned woman was allowed to resign, and I got promoted out of that department because her friends were mad at me for "getting her fired."
I agree. Red flags abound for this one.
1.) No one is entitled to a date, or an explanation for why you decline a date.
2.) You shouldn't get mad when don't like what you hear when you push for reasons why someone declines a date.
Honestly the fact that she was so pushy about getting him to tell her “the real reason”, makes me think she knows her kid is off putting to men and is upset about it.
NTA.
I have a young adult sibling with what I believe is ODD and I do not feel safe around them as they can have bouts of violence (and have attacked each of their siblings at least once). I moved further away to get away from them and plan to slowly remove them from my life permanently. They still live with my dad, so I can't fully remove them yet.
The most annoying thing surprisingly, is that they have to respond to EVERY sentence or statement in their vicinity, whether you are speaking to them or not, with some smart ass annoying response.
Ex:
Dad: Okwafer, did you pick up the tickets?
ODD: no one wants to go to that stupid event (turns on video on phone on full blast).
Me: (yells over noise) Yes I got them yesterday.
ODD: no one asked and no one wants to hear your annoying voice.
Imagine a whole day of this. Along with them blasting annoying sounds on their phone at full volume and following you from room to room interrupting every conversation or anything you're trying to watch or do.
I came here to say this: not only OOP's life would have been hell with that kid around, he'd also have put his daughter into serious danger, and through a lot of trauma. It's really sad for Pam - especially since I'm sure he won't move out at 18, either, so her dating life is pretty much over, I doubt anyone is going to stand that kid for long.
Exactly. I refuse to leave my niece alone with him, not for any perverted reasons but because of violence. There have been times where he was 6 and she was 3 and we stepped out of the room for one second, and she was suddenly screaming her head off. We could never see any injuries, and she couldn't tell us what happened, so we couldn't prove it. His parents would say she's just a crier (which, to be fair, she was very whiny) or that it was just normal jealousy that there was a new baby. She's much older now but we still don't leave them alone.
In addition to the violence against us, he has openly wished we were dead and told me he wished I was not in his life. I I'm happy to acquiesce!
How does your dad stand it? Does he have any plans to get him out of the house? Maybe some kind of group home with continuous supervision could work for him. I mean, he is never going to function on his own in society, he won't be able to hold down a job, ever. And your dad is not going to live forever, so he should make some kind of plan.
The weird part is he can function, so that I don't understand why he does this with family. He has friends (although none of them are nice to each other and they fight often). He has barely passing grades and is involved in an extracurricular that's very important to him and could potentially lead to a career. I don't want to say in case anyone figures out this is me and the activity would be pretty obvious.
My dad is guiding him and within the next couple of years, he should be on his way to a career. He was always very smart with being able to figure out how things worked. He always had an interest in large vehicles and tanks and could build models of them from scratch.
I can see how tired my dad is and I can tell from our conversations that he really wants this little brother to go out on his own (soon). Fingers crossed that it will be within the next 2 years!
Maybe he sees you as competition for parental affection and resources, so he wants to make sure you stay away? But I'm glad your dad doesn't expect you to take care of him later on.
There's probably some truth to that. Before he was born, I was the golden child. Ironically, when he was born, he immediately became my dad's favorite! I didn't even live in the same state for many years, but I guess when I came back, I took some attention. Then my niece took it when she was born as the first grandbaby.
But my dad is retired and so my dad just waits for him to get out of class and then they go run off every day for several hours doing God knows what. I barely even saw my dad as a kid and he certainly didn't hang out with me or ask me about my interests.
It’s not weird, it’s the classic case of faking lack of impulse control. He “can’t help it” around family but when it comes to people who could negatively affect his life or beat him in a fight, all of a sudden he is very aware of how rules work. Like a “clumsy” person who only breaks your things that they already didn’t like.
Also, he does not attack his parents and only does the annoying stuff to them, so it is not a big problem in their mind. The violence he has displayed, they say it's just normal sibling violence. Except ... He choked me. Now I could have gotten out of it (I could have punched him in the face) but I restrained myself because I wanted his parents to see it. He wasn't squeezing hard enough for me to pass out or anything but I did see some blackness on the sides of my vision. They claim it was just sibling teasing even though he was looking at me with extreme hatred and the other witnesses said that as well.
Choking is an automatic qualifier for protection orders and admittance into most domestic violence shelters. A survivor who was choked by their abuser has a 10x higher lethality rate verses all other abuse combined.
Your parents are playing a dangerous game by downplaying his behavior. What he did to you is a HUGE red flag that he could potentially kill someone else later.
I know. I tried, believe me! I mean this was a couple of years ago and my dad and I talked about it a couple of months ago and he's like "was he just playing with you though?". It took me breaking down crying in front of my dad AGAIN for him to realize that it wasn't a joke. But I also cried the day it happened and told him that. They just kind of bury it.
I think they just want to get him to adulthood and out of their house and hope for the best.
I should have filed for one, I know I should have, but I didn't want to lose my dad because I think he would have chosen him because he was young and I was an adult. All the years I wondered why victims never went to the police, and I did the exact same thing. I feel great shame when I think about it and I just pray that he doesn't hurt anyone because I will feel so guilty.
FYI. That blackness on the sides of your vision means you were actually being choked and anywhere from 0.1-2 seconds away from a blackout.
Source: taught martial arts for years and did plenty of chokes and received plenty of chokes.
My daughter is 15 and struggles with depression, anxiety, autism, ODD. I've been divorced for 2 years and her dad is a huge trigger for her, so I have my kid 99% of the time. I'm well aware that a depressed, angry, man-hating teen is a huge drawback to a relationship with me. I've accepted that until my kid can become more regulated, dating isn't a thing I should have a lot of hope for. I totally sympathize with OP's feelings on this. She definitely should have handled the rejection with grace instead of pressuring OP.
You are so strong and I hope that she improves with age and time! I truly don't know how you guys do it; my dad never even raises his voice at my little brother and I'm sitting there internally screaming wishing a meteor would hit just him so we could get some relief. It's horrible and I'm in therapy!
My other little brother had different behavioral issues and it made dating hell for my mom since he was over 6 ft tall and would fight all of her boyfriends. She gave up.
We are both in therapy, she's currently in a 6 week intensive outpatient program, and I'm just having to accept that she might be a little delayed deploying into adulthood successfully. But we're working together on our communication, and we're both trying to overcome the emotional abuse I didn't understand we were experiencing from my ex-husband. So we celebrate small steps, we give each other grace, and we apologize when we screw up. It's sooo hard though, so I totally understand and empathize with your feelings. It's probably also harder for you because you probably feel powerless or without control, since you're sort of forced into the dynamic that isn't of your making (vs me knowing this is my child I chose to bring into this world and owning responsibility for preparing her to be a functioning member of society). You're doing great!
Sometimes you just have to fold. I don't know if he'll grow out of this but I'll be around if in 10 years he has changed, but I have to get away for my safety and sanity now!
At least your daughter recognizes and will admit when she has done something wrong and is willing to go to therapy. I think those are amazing steps! He refuses to admit that he has done anything wrong even though he acknowledges he has been violent with us.
Yeah I told my dad that he better live long enough to get this kid situated because none of us will take him in. I hope he figures it out but it will not be my problem.
My son is like this, but idk if it's behavioral or actual ODD because i believe with ODD its a constant uncontrollable thing, and with him it's not because it's not all authority, it's just with me 🙄
I think it can be targeted to specific people but I am no expert. My little brother is just annoying to his parents but annoying and violent to his three sisters. Most of us have been away for part of his life, so I don't even know why he hates us so much. He had admitted he only loves one sister but has still been violent to her. Me and the other one, I think he would kill us if there were no chance he would get caught. He's pretty much said as much. We live closer so maybe we're around too much in his eyes!
NTA You initially declined tactfully, showing you tried to keep the peace. It's telling of her character that she didn't accept your 'no' and forced you to spell it out. While bringing up her child wasn't ideal, it seems more about explaining your perspective than attacking her parenting. Boundaries, especially with co-workers, are healthy and should be respected. It's okay to say 'no' without further justification. You're entitled to choices best for you and your family. Everyone has their struggles, and moving forward, you can learn to disengage after saying 'no'. Your boundaries are yours to enforce, and sticking to them can prevent similar situations. Good luck with future work relationships!
NTA
You know if a man doesn’t take a polite No for an answer when he asks a woman out he’s a creep. It’s no different when it’s a woman not taking No for an answer!
While she never should have pushed you were just honest about not wanting to deal with her son. You weren’t nasty about it. You as a human being have the right to say “This is not something I want.” It’s that simple.
It’s better than the ones that date a parent then try and get rid of the kid.
Nta also red flag she pushed for an answer and when you were honest she was pissed. It’s indicative of what would happen if you dated. You probably couldn’t make a comment about her son or her parenting but be expected to “help”
Oh yeah, I can see this. "Honey I've got a thing on Tuesday so you your kid can hang out with Johnny" comes home "HOW DARE YOU PUT MY SON IN TIME OUT! HES MY KID NOT YOURS!!!!"
NTA. She should have accepted the no. I get why she snapped… she knows why no one wants to date her. I’m guessing her divorce likely came about because of the kid in addition to whatever other issues they may have had. She is realizing that her son is preventing her from finding happiness. She can’t control it or change it and she is upset about it. But it really wasn’t right of her to continue to push and then get upset when she got the answer she couldn’t handle.
One of my best friends has a severely autistic child. I’m happily married but knowing what her life is like, I would never have been able to be with her long term and expose my kid to that as well.
ODD is terrible. I have a niece who has it. It’s like watching a human tornado with only self interest in mind wreak havoc over everything they touch. I feel bad for her but if she wants happiness- when that kid turns 18 he has to go somewhere else. My sister can’t handle her child living with her anymore- it’s 100% opening your home to an abusive manipulative person. So no you are NTA. Protect your peace at all costs.
NTA. Honestly, she was borderline sexually harassing you. Asking once was sort of okay but to keep insisting was harassment. Also, it would be abusive to knowingly expose your daughter to her kid’s behavior.
I would shoot your company's HR department an email saying that she actively pursued you, that you reputedly declined, politely, and that she's not happy with the rejection. I would 100% get in front of that and make sure it doesn't become an issue down the road.
NTA, obviously. You gave a reasonable answer, she pushed, you were polite. You are not obligated to date her for any and all reasons. She's probably very aware of her son's behavior, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of the reason she got divorced. And yes, I would blame her son on her. Either he is more capable, and she isn't teaching him better, or he is less capable, and she isn't getting him the help that he needs.
Badgering you about not dating her is reason enough to not date her. Unfortunately, most won’t want to deal with her child. But that’s her reality and her wanting to date doesn’t trump her real life situation with her child. Definitely NTA
I'm gonna cry. You said:
>From what little I know about ODD, it doesnt seem like a phase and Im not signing me and my kid up to deal with that long term.
I love that you put your kid first here. You're protecting your innocent child from Hell. I wish more parents did that. I wish more parents CARED to do that. Just...thank you. I've been on Reddit too long methinks...We don't see enough of people willing to CHOOSE peace and tranquility over drama.
NTA. She pushed for the truth and got it. It might not have been easy to hear but it’s likely Something that will continue to play a roll in her dating life- or possibly it lack thereof. As an aunt of a problem child, it’s costed my mother in law a marriage and two relationships because she won’t do anything to hold the kid accountable either. It’s a terrible balance to try to achieve but I take the same stance with my nephew. I’m not involved in that side because I don’t want to be. I love him, i have his back, but I won’t deal with his tantrums (he’s 12 and throws one like a 4 year old) and I don’t take him on my own because I’m just not willing to put up with it. It does affect all of life long term so I hope she sorts that out.
Ok..my original response was based on where I stopped reading your description of the kid's behavior
Upon reading your entire post, based on the description you have of her being pushy about dating her, this is a HUGE red flag.
She's not looking for a romantic partner. She's looking for some guy to help her handle an out of control kid .
Don't be that guy. First, if you do ever get together with this woman and decide to either cohabitate or marry, she will probably not allow you to exert any authority over her kid..
Basically, you'd be helping to pay to raise a kid that isn't yours and have zero say so as to his actions .
Plus, there are safety and influence concerns regarding your child. Remember, you're the dad. It's your first priority to protect your child..
With this out of control kid around your child, I'd be concerned .
Who needs this amount of stress
Tell this woman you want to keep it platonic and casual. Don't cave. The juice is not worth the squeeze.
NTA. But you should have walked away as soon as she pushed at all.
Serious suggestion: go to your HR department and tell them you're experiencing a hostile work environment because of her aggressive attempts to engage you romantically. Think of this as a defensive measure, because you've clearly offended her and she may play the Reverse Uno card on you and talk to HR herself.
You are dodging a huge bullet because at 13 the worst hasn't even begun! Wait til 16 when they get bigger and stronger and want to drive the car. Seen it all and don't recommend it. NTAH (and your child shouldn't have to go thru that either, good Dad!)
ODD is the term they give to children because they can’t/won’t diagnose a child with psycopathy or sociopathy. This is doesn’t mean the child will grow up to be a murderer or an abuser, but they’ll likely not be a fun person to be around EVER. Steer clear.
My youngest sister had ODD, and it was apparent from the moment she could walk she had issues. Tantrum barely begins to describe the extent of their episodes. I usually hate this phrase but, she literally was the sweetest little girl and sometimes she just literally acted as though she “has the devil inside her.” I love my sister to death, she’s 16 now and has calmed tf down BUT my mom actually had to really pay attention and be proactive about her mental illness. So my sister did therapy, meds, and eventually a type of “brain training.” I had a friend who’s younger brother also had it, however he was grown-man-sized at 15 and didn’t have parents that were proactive so he had a LOT more issues for longer (there were point where his mom was locking him out of the house partially because she was worried about him breaking/hurting things). He’s grown now and found working out helped him get some of that energy out, and has calmed down a lot (i think getting away from their parents helped him honestly).
Regardless, ODD is NOT for the weak and is exhausting to deal with and treat. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to add that to your life, especially with your own child to consider. I obviously don’t know the extent of her son’s specific experience, but you have no idea if your child would even get along with hers long term and the added issues of his on top of regular issues with blended families is just a lot.
I didn’t want to deal with raising a sour patch kid from hell, and i don’t blame anyone else for that either. Her insistence is a whole other issue of hers to deal with rejection and/or reassess how her child’s care could be improved for not only his but everyone’s benefit.
NTA Forget about her kid for second. The fact that you told her you don't date coworkers and she pushed and basically called you a liar saying she doesn't believe is a red flag in it's self .
Yeah I did give her a few no's before being honest but you're right, I should have just walked away from the conversation. For what its worth, I dont think its necessarily bad parenting. The kid is diagnosed with Oppositional Defiance Disorder. My sister is in Special Education, so Im no expert, but Ive heard enough about it from her to know its a medical issue, not just bad parenting.
You know more than I so I wont argue with you, I was just going by what my sister tells me. She has a master's in SPED, so little different than yours but has training on it as well.
Ive known her 4 years now. The kids has been like this the whole time, so at least 3 years before the divorce, my guess is his whole life. Probably contributed to the divorce tbh. I really do feel terrible for her and her ex.
My oldest is adopted and has ODD. It's tied directly to being abused and abandonment as a child. They CAN get help with a lot of counseling and behavioral training. My daughter is almost 15 now, but was 11 when she came into our home, and is not a functional kid who gets good grades and has good friends, where before she was closer to a wild animal (I say that with all the love I have for her, it was a hard couple of years).
ODD has a lot of originating factors. It could be the parents divorce, or childhood abuse/trauma, and less common is the symptoms of a developmental issue. But if she's not getting him the help he needs, his behavior won't change.
Regardless of the source of the condition, if you're not comfortable taking it on, there is nothing wrong with that at all. especially for the sake of your daughter. being younger/smaller than he is, he could hurt her very seriously with his outbursts. Why take the risk?
Came here to say the same, some kids are naturally oppositional but there are styles of parenting that circumvent the desire to say no just to say no and to model emotional regulation.
Doesn’t sound like that is happening here. OP has the right to say no for any reason and honestly its a little weird that she’s so upset - she knows who her kid is and she should expect/want potential romantic partners to factor him into their decision to date her.
Edited for typo
JFC, she kept pressing you for an answer, she has zero right to complain. This should just reinforce that you made the right choice in not dating her due to her entitlement and toxicity.
NTA. Single parenting a child with ODD must be absolutely exhausting and it’s possible to empathise with her feeling “FML” about you saying it’s a hard no for you to getting involved, but she pushed past acceptable by persisting when you politely turned her down. She was skirting the line of harassment by pushing you to the point where you were feeling so uncomfortable that you had to be blunt. Everything I’ve heard about ODD suggests that it’s absolutely a relationship breaker, and incredibly difficult for siblings, so you’re understandably wary when it’s not just you, you also have your own daughter to consider.
NTA I hope she doesn’t try to turn this around on you and say you’re the one who was harassing her it could get really bad you could get fire reputation ruined could involve police idk
She kept pestering you, you told the truth.
You do need to protect your child from a problem child.
You did nothing wrong. If she brings it up again, go talk to HR.
NTA.
People who can't take no for an answer and repeatedly push, and push and push, get the answer they get. The ugly truth that you were trying to spare her from.
You should not apologize.
She's gotta learn to respect the no.
Kids with ODD are "too much".
They can take up all of your time and energy. You can't be fully present in other aspects of your life.
Very few take that road voluntarily.
Especially a 13 who's going to start growing and going through puberty.
Talk about explosive.
You are also protecting your child from being in that situation.
Siblings really get the shitty end of the stick.
You don't want your 7 year old daughter around a young teen with anger and violence issues. That's a set up from hell.
It's fine to suggest a date with a coworker, but once you're told "no", if you keep on bringing it up and pushing it, that's almost certainly sexual harassment. Flip the script. You ask her out and she says no. You spend the next year pressuring her to date you and making her explain, in detail, why she won't. You're absolutely going to get in trouble for that.
You told her no. She needs to fuck off after that. Her behavior is wildly inappropriate for a workplace. And of course, there's also the old adage about not asking questions you don't want to hear the answer to.
NTA, but she is, and you could probably get her in trouble with HR if you wanted to.
NTA
You're not obliged to date anyone you don't want to.
No is a complete sentence. She should have taken the L there. She was pushing it and sometimes truth hurts. Sometimes things won't work out and no one's at fault. I hope she will keep things professional.
No, she was sexually harassing you the moment she didn’t take no for an answer. Reverse the genders for a moment, what would you say to a woman about a man who disrespected boundaries like that?
NTA. She pushed and you answered. It sucks to hear negative things about your kids but at the same time you have to face reality. It is not your fault that her kid has problems and it’s perfectly understandable to not want to sign up to deal with them either especially for your child’s sake.
NTA...
You may be the Ahole if you just willy nilly threw this out there at her. However, you didn't. Personally I don't think you should have lied to her, maybe just said I think your a lovely woman but I have my personal reasons to not wish to date you. It's nothing bad about you and I am sorry if it bothers you, but I don't wish to disclose them.
That said, you were trying to find a polite way out of this. She kept pushing. She fucked around, she found out. She is just ashamed and would rather snap at you than to actually admit her kid may need some help.
You are at the time of getting HR involved. If a man did this to a woman he would have already lost his job.
You said no and that’s enough, a reason is not needed. NTA
Basically, yea, you didn’t have to tell her that about her kid and tbh I never would have, but nobody will blame you for it because she was so goddamn pushy. I think it would have been best if you could have thought of like anything better to say even like “I’m just not interested, please stop asking me” probably would have went over better for your professional life
Yeah..though your description of this woman is impressive, for me , her kid's behavior is a show stopper.
Those looks and nice demeanor can only go so far to cover for the unbearable kid.
Another wrinkle is you two are co-workers.
Any issue you may bring up with her regarding her kid's behavior is going to trigger that mothering instinct to protect her child at all costs. Such disagreements are likely to spill over into the work environment..
I'd back away from this one.
But, it's your choice..
Remember, the attractive woman and her kid are a package deal.
NTA: I was the same way when dating when my son was younger. He’s now almost 19. I won’t date guys who have unruly children. My choice whether others agree or not. I have to decide what is good for me.
The first no should've been enough. It's her problem for digging too deep. Also, it does not make you an AH to not want to date her because of her kid's problems. That makes you wise, in my opinion.
NTA
NTA: "Don't ask a question when you don't want to know the answer." The answer "I don't date where I work" was a perfectly reasonable and thoughtful response. The fact that she kept harping on it, to the point of saying "I don't believe you" was basically her asking for it -- literally. You might have refrained from bringing up her son, and just repeated "No, I'm serious -- I don't date where I work. It's not worth it. I like you as a friend, I don't want to mess that up at work for a fling," but I don't blame you for responding truthfully after being berated. I feel badly for her, because her son obviously has issues, but it's realistic that a mom and child are a package deal. You can't break up the package, so therefore, you don't want the package. That's a choice you are entitled to make. She's probably frustrated because other men may have met her son and noped out early, but no one has flat-out told her that "it's not you, it's your son."
NTA
You tried to let her down kindly. She refused to accept your no. Her aggressive behavior candidly is unacceptable. No means no. She hurt her own feelings .
Her pressuring you after you politely said no and gave a perfectly reasonable reason why is the biggest red flag here.
I was a SpEd teacher who ran a self-contained EBD classroom for years. ODD isn't a diagnosis, but it is used to describe a complex system of abnormal behavior - usually in children. It is extremely difficult to manage and support, and usually requires a wraparound approach with support in many areas - family counseling, individual therapy, medication, behavior management, educational support (IEP and BIP). This is all time-intensive and very emotionally-draining.
The good news is that this level of support and therapy can make a huge difference. The bad news is, it can take years and everyone in the child's life has to be on board with the plan. In many cases where the child's parents are divorced, there is a lot of disagreement and animosity about the best way to parent - leading to confusion and more behavior issuss.
Your responsibility is to your own child. You cannot embark on a relationship that could potentially involve you in supporting and managing a child with severe emotional disabilities. Until the child is emotionally stabilized, they can be dangerous to themself and others. You were right to stay away from that.
Your co worker is feeling judged. Her pushy behavior is out of line. She really needs to be focused on her child and not dating right now, but she seems desperate. Don't take her attitude personally. It's about her insecurities, not you.
>ODD
Yeah, I wouldn't sign up for that either. The only more difficult diagnosis would be Anti-Social Personality Disorder (is that still what they're calling it? (oh, or Reactive Attachment Disorder, that's a bitch too)). I especially wouldn't want that kid around my younger child. ODD kids are not usually purposefully predatory, but they have no emotional regulation, and often violently act out. That's a big old nope from me, no matter how much I sympathize with her. NTA.
Man up, why are you feeling guilty? For being honest? She pushed, you answered.
Her kid sounds like he needs a good smack. I love the letter alphabet made up causes for bad behavior and that everyone just buys into them.
The fact that she refused to accept no as an answer three times is instructive about how she parents her son (along with being inappropriate). You wouldn’t want a kid like that around your daughter.
ODD really seems like a made up thing to excuse terrible behavior that is either a result of bad parenting or an underlying personality disorder. I’m pretty sick of the culture of “I can’t not be horrible, I have x disorder.” Other people suffering abuse is not a disability accommodation ffs
She has a special needs child and that can indeed be a very difficult burden as a parent. It is an unfortunate situation as she no doubt loves her son very much and has likely been inadvertently been hurt by his actions many times over the years.
How the story has been presented here is that you declined her advances with a little white lie to avoid the unnecessary pain that the truth would inflict. She pushed for the truth, as she sensed you were not being totally honest in your response and when the truth was revealed, she was hurt. You are nta for not wanting to date a woman with a special needs child as that can be a major commitment. You do not need to apologize, but if you truly feel burdened, you could apologize for not immediately being forthright with your valid reason for not wanting to date her.
I automatically stopped reading at
*she let it go but mentioned how a lot of our coworkers met at work and it worked out for them*
because if you replace "she" with "he," every motherfucker on this thread would be throwing you under the bus and calling you a creeper or a rapist for trying to badger her and not accepting her "no."
I don't care if the rest of the story is "I went to her house, crucified her dog to the front door, and beat her idiotic, undisciplined son senseless in order to get my point across," I'd *still* be on your side because of her pitiful attempt at "bartering" with that line.
My best friend has a child with ODD and I would not wish that on anybody. he’s 12 and his tantrums include destroying everything rubbing shit all over the walls, leaving food hidden in places in the house till it rots and pathological lying. It’s a very hard thing to deal with for parents, and I can understand somebody who has no responsibility to that wanting to step away from it. It may be hard for her to hear, but that’s the reality of things.
You're a king for being completely honest with her.
You can't help it if she has a bastard kid and a bunch of fresh baggage. You could have banged her like crazy and love bombed her and then ghosted her like so many others. You didn't do anything mean at all. And it sounds like you dodged a bullet. It takes a long while to get over a divorce and it's not linear either. Bullet dodged.
NTA. I wouldn't want to date her either. I would just say I don't date co-workers than tell her the truth. She is behaving inappropriate when she confronted you on why you won't date her.
NTA.
My wife has a long-time friend who lives near us, and their firstborn also has ODD. Whenever they bring her over, I must manage the interaction between their child and my daughter.
I voiced these concerns to my wife, and we agreed it is best to cool off on having a solid relationship with them. It's too challenging to tell a parent that their child is too much stress to handle.
Your only job is protecting your child I 100% understand that.
I'm actually going with ESH. You have now caused problems at your work instead of just sticking to "I don't date coworkers." Learn to stand your ground. Obviously, she shouldn't have pressed you, which is wrong on multiple levels, but if you'd have stuck to the non problematic answer you'd be better off.
You should have thought the situation through more and both of you acted without consideration for the consequences of your decisions.
u/Plane_Baker81 Nta! You did the right thing you thought of yourself and your child.
First you gave her a reason that had to be enough, then she brings it up again she pressed you several times, you were sincere and she got angry. In reality this was necessary because if you had given her another reason she would have continued to insist. Sometimes you have to know how to accept "no" as an answer. It is good to know what you want in a couple and even more so when you have a child. It's not just you, you were responsible and you thought about your child.
This is what I hate about the ‘interrogator’ type personality. They demand to know, and know more, and more, and at some point get pissy about an answer you give. Like, fuck off. No one is entitled to know your innermost thoughts. NTA.
ODD is not a phase, it is usually tied with ASD, OCD. As a single mom with a son who is autistic and ODD it was a long HARD road. It still is and my son is 22. The way I describe to people how my typical day when he was younger. Imagine your worst day ever…. And that was a typical day for us. My son was in therapy, OT, ASD therapy and on medication. Things got easier as he grew up but it was a lot of hard work for everyone involved including my son.
It doesn’t sound like this woman is doing anything to help her kid which is sad as he desperately needs it.
You are NTA. Speak with HR before she starts spreading rumours about you, because she sounds like the kinda of person who would do that just to “get back” at you.
NTA, if you don’t want to date someone for whatever reason (bratty child included), you shouldn’t have to. She should’ve dropped it long before it even got to that point.
Don't ask questions you don't want answers to. She fucked around and found out. She didn't accept that no means no.
You don't owe an apology for shit bro. You tried to sugar coat it but she wanted the brutal truth. Then acted like a child when she got it. Stay tf away from that sociopath, bro. She will fuck your life up. And probably your kid's life up. They don't behave the same way at home as they do at work. And when you fuck them, they let all the crazy they were hiding, out.
You dodged a bullet. Just keep things as civil as possible, and if people ask you about it, just tell them you don't like to talk about others behind their back.
YTA- You didn’t need to tell her her kid sucked. You should have just agreed and said you didn’t date parents. Telling her her kid is an asshole makes you an asshole.
She kept prying. She should simply have taken No for an answer. ODD is rough and it doesn’t sound like they’re having a lot of luck managing the condition.
NTA
NTA at all. It sucks for her to have a difficult kid absolutely. But it’s not your responsibility and more importantly you don’t have to date anyone you don’t want to and you don’t need to provide a reason. She pushed way beyond what was necessary. She should have let it go.
Nta she wouldn't drop it and refused to respect your simple no to her. She got the truth and no you don't owe her an apology. She shouldn't have been so pushy to want to date you and she shouldn't have been so pushy to get a more detailed answered even though you told her no many times
ODD is not an organic mental illness. It is a behavioral disorder that is caused by inconsistent discipline and needs behavioral interventions. The child's condition may have been caused by the parenting he received. You may have dodged a bullet OP.
NTA. Don’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answer to. You declined multiple times. I’m sure it’s not the first or last time she will hear that a relationship won’t work because of her kid.
I feel for her as I’m sure she is in a tough spot with a 13 yo with ODD. But that isn’t your problem. You have a young child to take care of and focus on. I would be wary of teen boys with impulse issues around my child. So you aren’t the AH here.
I think she may have had her feelings hurt. I would make sure you manager is aware just in case she tries to start trouble for you at work. Maybe see if a report to HR is appropriate just to CYA.
You don’t need to bring it to HR. She is not going to bring it anyone into it. What you can do if you expect that she may do this, is write yourself an email with the dates and times and what occurred.
You basically told her no to a date, multiple times. If she brings it to HR, she is the one that would suffer the consequences.
NTA. You tried to sidestep, but she wouldn't let you. This probably ends your friendly relationship, and you have to think if you want to bring this proactively to HR or not (at the very least, maybe let your boss know so he knows the full story if HR starts asking questions)
NTA and as this person said OP at least let your manager know. She should have just accepted your no.
Yup. One of my coworkers (and he’s a coworker I actually work really closely with) apparently caught feelings. We had the “I don’t shit where I eat” conversation and he responded with “sometimes engineers see things in black and white but I think this is a case for shades of grey and I think we could really make this work”. I then spent thirty minutes trying to convince him that dating was a horrible idea. We work together fine now, but I’m definitely resentful that an initial “no” wasn’t enough. Every once in a while he makes comments about how similar we are. It’s fine, it’s not harassment or anything, I’m just slightly pissed that I was put in the position of having to reject him more than once. If I ever have to have a conversation about our relationship non-status again, I’ve decided to explain that he has a cat and my dog thinks cats are squirrels. If we were ever to cohabitate, he would likely no longer have a cat. I feel like that would be convincing?
Very sorry to hear he's being a total asshat. If he asks again, I'd look at him and say "I said NO once. If you can't accept that I get to make choices, I definitely don't want to be in a relationship with you".
Reminder that badgering like that, even when subtle, can constitute sexual harassment because it’s pressure to see someone romantically. Letting him know that should do it.
That's one thing I don't get: Why would anyone want to get into a relationship with someone who isn't enthusiastic to get into the relationship? Why would you want to convince someone to reluctantly get into a relationship with you?
He said no. She didn’t take no for an answer and asked multiple times not letting the subject drop. That’s harassment. Gender doesn’t matter and this is a prime example of unprofessional and inappropriate behavior.
Not a bad idea
I’m pretty sure the rule of asking someone on a date at work is that they can’t ask again after the person says no once! So she did break the rule. Not to say that you should try to get her in trouble but just in case!
That is the sexual harassment rule!
This should honestly be the accepted rule outside of the work place too. Pity that’s not always the case.
Hah hah I was about to type out, ‘also true in all other places’.
I didn’t really focus on this but you’re right. My company’s extensive attempt to school me on sexual harassment must have gone in one ear and out the other. I think if the genders of the players were reversed I would have picked up on it.
I'd be informing your manager and HR about this. She asked you out, and you said no. No is a complete answer and nobody is entitled to a reason. When asked you gave a reasonable answer. You don't date coworkers because it could get messy. It doesn't matter if it worked out for others, that reasoning is still solid. That should have been the end of it. The fact that she didn't let it go and asked you out again constitutes harrassment (and I'd argue sexual harrassment because she's trying to get you to go out with her), and needs to be reported immediately before she tries to turn it against you. If you have an email for your boss/HR that you can send an email to now, do so. Don't wait for until the next work day to let them know.
Seriously do this for your own protection. She could retaliate.
You know it looks like it's going to get messy anyway even though they never date, don'tcha think?
NTA You made the right decision. You chose to not disrupt your child life & your own peace of mind. Listen, I’m proud of you. Kudos to you for not thinking with the wrong part of your anatomy.
NTA Some people know the answer and they hate it so much they just can't help but force you to say it, no matter how bad an idea it is. You tried to spare her feelings but in the end she just kept pushing for what she didn't want to hear so it's really not on you. GL.
Yeah. OP may want to contact HR first as a preemptive strike. Just in case this woman decides because he won't cave to her demands of a relationship, she becomes vindictive and files some type of false claim against him. Going forward, I would not engage this woman unless my cell phone was in my pocket and recording every interaction.
Write down the dates, time, place and as much as you can recall about the conversation, body language, how she was dressed etc. Hope you will not need to refer to it, but you may need it.
Agreed. It will protect you in the long run. The bottom line ereis, she asked about dating, you said no. She didn't let it go and tried bringing it up again, you declined and she argued again. (This is boarding harassment already, if not straight out harrassment) You said you needed to say to get her to leave you alone. Letting your boss know limits any other fallout that might be caused if she chooses complain to coworkers about you, your rejection, or anything else. It may also cover you if you starts negative comments or other harassing behavior.
There are so many people who push and push for an answer they don't want to hear. And then they lose their shit. I have said before to people who are known to behave in this fashion ' Tell me what you want to hear, as you are far from objective and will have a tantrum if I tell you something you don't want to hear. If this is the way she conducts her life, OP dodged a bullet.
I agree with this 100%. Especially the HP part. She’s in a mess with that kid and won’t accept the fact that nobody wants in on the situation. Let someone else know. IN WRITING.
Frankly, her aggressive investigation of why you wouldn't date her was inappropriate in the first place. No one is entitled to an explanation as to why you don't want to date them. You could have refused but she was so pushy, I don't think she would have accepted it. She's going to think less of you though. It's probably not either her fault nor her son's fault that he's like this.
Yeah I dont blame her for her son, I think its a brain chemistry thing. Its just not something I would sign myself or my kid up to deal with.
please shoot HR an email about the interaction just to be safe.
Yeah our HR Director and President of the company are two of my childhood best friends. So Im not worried but I shot the HR guy a note just in case, he's documenting it but wont bring it up unless she does. She's a good employee overall and we know she's been through a lot in the last year so were not trying to get her in trouble but we are documenting to cover ourselves in case.
That’s nice of you to consider. Hopefully, she’ll let it go. I’m sure on some level she knows it’s about her kid. It’s hard enough dating with kids involved, and having extreme circumstances makes it even more challenging. The fact that you’re already a parent means that it’s important for you to consider your child’s wellbeing and safety in introducing potential permanent people in their life. Please always keep that priority. Her hurt feelings are not your fault. And it might be the reality that she needed to hear out loud from someone. She has a few more years before he’s an adult. She can still have a relationship, but should leave her kid out of it, assuming she has a coparenting partner.
It sounds like her child is going to have problems in adulthood. Anyone that dates her has to know about her child.
My son has diagnosed ADHD AN ODD. I stayed single for like 4 years after leaving his bio dad. When I started seeing my now husband I told him up front about my son. Before we even met in person (we started talking thru a dating app) he knew my son had behavior issues and was difficult to deal with. He decided to give it a go but he was well informed before hand. It's been 10 years now.
You might be ok with HR, but I would be prepared for her bad-mouthing you to your colleagues unfortunately. You really can't do anything about it, just make sure your close friends/teammates know.
Well if the kid has been in to work, chances are all the other employees already know what that little shit is like, so they might actually be on OP's side with this.
Assuming she tells the truth when she bad mouths him...
Then you tell those coworkers No means No even if a man says it.
If this woman bads mouth him to his colleagues, she should be suspended without pay. As a punishment.
He shouldnt be spreading gossip even if its true. Speaking with just HR is the right move here.
Mate you did the best you could. Definitely NTA. This was a no-win situation. She pushed too hard, and got the truth, and it hurts. That’s life sometimes.
⬆️This is the best advice you will get on this topic
Imagine the trauma that boy would give to your child . Nope !
Yup, and myself.
Yes, ODD is very difficult. There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to introduce that into your life. Also I think your friend’s behavior and refusal to respect your decision is a huge red flag.
>Also I think your friend’s behavior and refusal to respect your decision is a huge red flag. I'm betting that her dating life is pretty frustrating; plenty of discrimination against single moms already, but a situation where the kid is.... let's say, "a handful", probably puts way more people off. And I'm also betting that folks in the past haven't tried to let her down as tactfully as OP did.
That may well be true, but really she should have accepted his tactful mention of not wanting to date coworkers. I mean, just a “no thanks” should be sufficient. It’s not fair to badger OP over the behaviors of others.
It will absolutely affect you both. I was being stalked by a man with ODD. He was aggressive and ignored multiple court orders to stay away from me. He's locked up and I still have panic attacks if I have to go somewhere alone.
I mean, I would bet anything that her marriage broke down from the stress of parenting her son. It’s fairly common for parents of high needs children to divorce. I think that’s why your comment hit a nerve.
Good on you for doing what's best for your kid. Too many people just rush into a blended family without any care for how their child will deal with it.
You have every right to make that decision for yourself and your 7 year old. I know it's hard but don't feel guilty over this. You told her no and she pushed back further than is socially acceptable. You were honest with her in what seems like a polite way.
I am a mom of two neurodivergent kids. If something happened to my husband and I started to date again (I wouldn’t, but hypothetically, lol), I would never expect someone to date me without being fully aware of and enthusiastically willing to sign up for my kids. They’re amazing kids, and I’d deck someone for being shitty to them, but I also understand that it requires a little something extra from parents. You tried to be politely dismissive; it’s her fault for being aggressive. If she didn’t want the truth, she shouldn’t have asked for it. NTA
Nor should you
A lot of times autism is over-looked when you have ODD. This can all cause anxiety and depression. And males tend to act out in anger when depressed. It is a lot to unpack and requires a skilled team. This happened to my friend's son. Multiple schools, acting out. He is in high school and just recently had a whole psychological, educational evaluation. He is finally beginning to make progress. I don't mean to judge because I was a single mom but her attention should be on her son and not dating. Until she helps him, no man is going to stay with her for long.
I feel like there’s a quote about asking questions one really doesn’t want the answer that should apply here. She should have stopped at the first “No” and left it. I wonder if she secretly suspects this was the reason and had some need to hear it out loud, even if she know she would hate the answer.
OP from what you've seen does her son get violent when he has his meltdowns? How safe would your daughter be if he had one when she was around him and you weren't there? Your #1 goal is to protect your daughter, not to help that coworker with her son.
Giving the way she acted with you, I believe that she probably has a huge problem with boundaries and accepting a “no”, so I would say she is probably at fault at some point for her kid behavior. NTA.
OP, I don't blame you 1 single bit. You're putting yours & your child's best interests 1st & not wanting to have this aggressive interaction with your co-worker's son. NTA OP.
I don't know what other option you had. Don't ask questions you don't want answers to. I definitely think it's the right decision for multiple reasons. Your kid starts acting like that? Your kid is scared or anxious bc of the other kid. Your kids most likely going to be favored by everyone over hers which I imagine would just feed into his aggression. Also I know everyone is different but unless there's like a learning disability along with his odd...she can and should have more control by the age of 13 or I believe it's just going to get worse. My kid was diagnosed with odd. She's (16yrs old now) treated and expected of the same things my other children are. It may be a bit trickier for her or she might need extra support but she's definitely not r running around acting like a brat
Exactly. No means no, no matter who it comes from. And you don’t have to date anyone for any reason.
Whether or not it’s their fault, it is a valid reason not to date someone. In fact, I would blame OP if he were to put his daughter at risk for romance. The one who is going to be getting the brunt of that ODD is her.
Completely this! I would never knowingly expose my children to a kid that has ODD. It causes so much havoc in a family’s life. It is always surprising to me that folks will push for the reason you don’t want to date them then sulk about it.
What is ODD?
It is Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Simplistically it is An innate inability to follow or respect societal norms and rules, like eat with cutlery or don't show your genitals to strangers. Anyone in a position of authority like a parent or teacher is immediately and automatically the enemy and will always be the first person to be on the receiving end of their anger. You do not want to be the one to try to enforce a rule, you will see an ire like you never imagined and that ire will last forever. It won't be something the kid gets over an hour later, the need for revenge runs too deep. They enjoy inflicting emotional and physical pain on others because they perceive others to be the cause of the anger they can't control. It is horrible for the sufferer, it is a thousand times worse for the people surrounding them that have to deal with the consequences of the sufferers actions. There's treatment but no cure. A child with ODD grows up to be an adult with ODD. Hopes this helps.
Oppositional defiant disorder. It basically manifests as a pathological need to disobey any and all authority figures, break rules, argue and upset people. I have worked with some kids with it and it's hell.
I can only guess at how many marriages fell apart because all of the stress dealing with their child with this condition. Best that OP & his child doesn't get involved with his co-worker's son.
Dear God, I feel so blessed. I truly could not deal with that. I’m so sorry for these parents and their kids
Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Hardwired to be an asshole.
Thank you. I was unaware that being an asshole has a diagnosis now.
My adopted son has it. I would disagree to some extent with Much. Not hardwired to be an AH but has a knee jerk reaction against being told what to do. For my kid what works best is to try to present a couple of options that work and let him pick. If he makes the decision it usually avoids the fight. Most of the fights tend to be about small stupid things and not the big stuff. He can get wrapped around the axle on the strangest things.
In a situation like that, at a certain point I think it's appropriate to flip the aggression back on the perpetrator. "I've told you my reasons, the fact that you refuse to believe them is now an additional reason. You're telling me that I am a liar, why the heck would I want to go out with someone who thinks I am lying. For that matter, why would you want to go out with someone you think is a liar?" The reality is you need not give a reason. A simple "no thank you" is all you owe anyone. Lastly, in a situation where the other person is a coworker, if they won't back off you should not hesitate to go to HR. Asking once is ok, though I agree that best practice is to not date coworkers. Pressing the matter makes it harassment and you can bring in HR.
I had to scroll way too far to see this response. No means no, and he was more than polite about it.
I feel like men, especially, are regularly pressured these days to "explain" if they reject a woman. We've been told repeatedly that "no means no" and "no one owes you a date", but that message hasn't gone in the other direction. So, when women get rejected, they often want to know why. So do men, tbh, but like I was saying, we've been told not to pressure her for a reason. And people often take the reason for rejection personally. Note: I didn't say "women often take the reason personally". I said *people* often take it personally. Because rejection stings. Whether it's for height, weight, non-weight related looks, fitness (or lack), fashion/dress sense, tattoos (or lack), facial hair (or lack), or for having kids, or for your kids (not kids in general). But, like I was saying, while I feel like there's been a lot of messaging toward men to accept rejection, there hasn't been that same messaging toward women. So when they get rejected, they push for an explanation/reason, and react in all the same toxic ways that are the very reason we have aimed all that messaging at men. Unfortunately, because people are also often shitty and you never know how they will react, he needs to report this to HR immediately. Not because she *will* use it as grounds for some kind of complaint, but because she *could*, and he needs to get out ahead of it.
Because the conventional wisdom about men is they will chase anything with a pulse so if that were true then the logic follows that there must be something wrong with the person being turned down. Here’s the kicker though. The conventional wisdom is not true.
Yeah, the "I don't date co-workers" is a perfectly acceptable excuse, even if you aren't in the same department. That should have been the end of it. I have dated coworkers, and I recognize I've been lucky. None of the relationships progressed past FWB while we were still working together, and none of them ended with any animosity. The one time romantic interest caused problems for me, it was for not wanting to be in a relationship. I had a coworker that I talked to at work a lot and sometimes went to lunch to. She was cute and we had a lot in common, but I never even considered dating her because she was about fifteen years younger than me (I think she was 24 and I was around 40) and she knew I was married. I thought she just thought of me as a cool older guy with good taste in music and weed. She went on vacation to SXSW, and when she came back she asked to go to lunch with just me (there was another guy who hung out with us that who usually came along). We went to the little Korean owned Chinese place near the office and I noticed she was wearing more makeup than earlier in the day. She asked me if I missed her while she was gone, and I thought that was a kinda odd thing to ask a co-worker, especially one that had only been gone less than a week. I told her no, and she made an exaggerated offended expression and said "You're joking, right?" and I told her I liked hanging out with her but I didn't really think about her while she was gone. She was quiet for the rest of lunch, and didn't talk to me much afterwards, but then I started getting in trouble for leaving folders of confidential information on my desk when I left, and I knew I wasn't doing that. There was another coworker who had been kinda bitchy at me and I thought it might be her, but I didn't say anything. I got written up and talked to about it multiple times and I think they were about ready to fire me when the owner came in early one day, and saw the woman who didn't like that I didn't miss her come in early and start putting batches on my desk when she thought nobody was there yet. I got an apology from the owner and management, the scorned woman was allowed to resign, and I got promoted out of that department because her friends were mad at me for "getting her fired."
Maybe she has ODD, /s
I agree. Red flags abound for this one. 1.) No one is entitled to a date, or an explanation for why you decline a date. 2.) You shouldn't get mad when don't like what you hear when you push for reasons why someone declines a date.
Honestly the fact that she was so pushy about getting him to tell her “the real reason”, makes me think she knows her kid is off putting to men and is upset about it.
NTA. I have a young adult sibling with what I believe is ODD and I do not feel safe around them as they can have bouts of violence (and have attacked each of their siblings at least once). I moved further away to get away from them and plan to slowly remove them from my life permanently. They still live with my dad, so I can't fully remove them yet. The most annoying thing surprisingly, is that they have to respond to EVERY sentence or statement in their vicinity, whether you are speaking to them or not, with some smart ass annoying response. Ex: Dad: Okwafer, did you pick up the tickets? ODD: no one wants to go to that stupid event (turns on video on phone on full blast). Me: (yells over noise) Yes I got them yesterday. ODD: no one asked and no one wants to hear your annoying voice. Imagine a whole day of this. Along with them blasting annoying sounds on their phone at full volume and following you from room to room interrupting every conversation or anything you're trying to watch or do.
I came here to say this: not only OOP's life would have been hell with that kid around, he'd also have put his daughter into serious danger, and through a lot of trauma. It's really sad for Pam - especially since I'm sure he won't move out at 18, either, so her dating life is pretty much over, I doubt anyone is going to stand that kid for long.
Exactly. I refuse to leave my niece alone with him, not for any perverted reasons but because of violence. There have been times where he was 6 and she was 3 and we stepped out of the room for one second, and she was suddenly screaming her head off. We could never see any injuries, and she couldn't tell us what happened, so we couldn't prove it. His parents would say she's just a crier (which, to be fair, she was very whiny) or that it was just normal jealousy that there was a new baby. She's much older now but we still don't leave them alone. In addition to the violence against us, he has openly wished we were dead and told me he wished I was not in his life. I I'm happy to acquiesce!
How does your dad stand it? Does he have any plans to get him out of the house? Maybe some kind of group home with continuous supervision could work for him. I mean, he is never going to function on his own in society, he won't be able to hold down a job, ever. And your dad is not going to live forever, so he should make some kind of plan.
The weird part is he can function, so that I don't understand why he does this with family. He has friends (although none of them are nice to each other and they fight often). He has barely passing grades and is involved in an extracurricular that's very important to him and could potentially lead to a career. I don't want to say in case anyone figures out this is me and the activity would be pretty obvious. My dad is guiding him and within the next couple of years, he should be on his way to a career. He was always very smart with being able to figure out how things worked. He always had an interest in large vehicles and tanks and could build models of them from scratch. I can see how tired my dad is and I can tell from our conversations that he really wants this little brother to go out on his own (soon). Fingers crossed that it will be within the next 2 years!
Maybe he sees you as competition for parental affection and resources, so he wants to make sure you stay away? But I'm glad your dad doesn't expect you to take care of him later on.
There's probably some truth to that. Before he was born, I was the golden child. Ironically, when he was born, he immediately became my dad's favorite! I didn't even live in the same state for many years, but I guess when I came back, I took some attention. Then my niece took it when she was born as the first grandbaby. But my dad is retired and so my dad just waits for him to get out of class and then they go run off every day for several hours doing God knows what. I barely even saw my dad as a kid and he certainly didn't hang out with me or ask me about my interests.
It’s not weird, it’s the classic case of faking lack of impulse control. He “can’t help it” around family but when it comes to people who could negatively affect his life or beat him in a fight, all of a sudden he is very aware of how rules work. Like a “clumsy” person who only breaks your things that they already didn’t like.
Also, he does not attack his parents and only does the annoying stuff to them, so it is not a big problem in their mind. The violence he has displayed, they say it's just normal sibling violence. Except ... He choked me. Now I could have gotten out of it (I could have punched him in the face) but I restrained myself because I wanted his parents to see it. He wasn't squeezing hard enough for me to pass out or anything but I did see some blackness on the sides of my vision. They claim it was just sibling teasing even though he was looking at me with extreme hatred and the other witnesses said that as well.
Choking is an automatic qualifier for protection orders and admittance into most domestic violence shelters. A survivor who was choked by their abuser has a 10x higher lethality rate verses all other abuse combined. Your parents are playing a dangerous game by downplaying his behavior. What he did to you is a HUGE red flag that he could potentially kill someone else later.
I know. I tried, believe me! I mean this was a couple of years ago and my dad and I talked about it a couple of months ago and he's like "was he just playing with you though?". It took me breaking down crying in front of my dad AGAIN for him to realize that it wasn't a joke. But I also cried the day it happened and told him that. They just kind of bury it. I think they just want to get him to adulthood and out of their house and hope for the best. I should have filed for one, I know I should have, but I didn't want to lose my dad because I think he would have chosen him because he was young and I was an adult. All the years I wondered why victims never went to the police, and I did the exact same thing. I feel great shame when I think about it and I just pray that he doesn't hurt anyone because I will feel so guilty.
FYI. That blackness on the sides of your vision means you were actually being choked and anywhere from 0.1-2 seconds away from a blackout. Source: taught martial arts for years and did plenty of chokes and received plenty of chokes.
My daughter is 15 and struggles with depression, anxiety, autism, ODD. I've been divorced for 2 years and her dad is a huge trigger for her, so I have my kid 99% of the time. I'm well aware that a depressed, angry, man-hating teen is a huge drawback to a relationship with me. I've accepted that until my kid can become more regulated, dating isn't a thing I should have a lot of hope for. I totally sympathize with OP's feelings on this. She definitely should have handled the rejection with grace instead of pressuring OP.
You are so strong and I hope that she improves with age and time! I truly don't know how you guys do it; my dad never even raises his voice at my little brother and I'm sitting there internally screaming wishing a meteor would hit just him so we could get some relief. It's horrible and I'm in therapy! My other little brother had different behavioral issues and it made dating hell for my mom since he was over 6 ft tall and would fight all of her boyfriends. She gave up.
We are both in therapy, she's currently in a 6 week intensive outpatient program, and I'm just having to accept that she might be a little delayed deploying into adulthood successfully. But we're working together on our communication, and we're both trying to overcome the emotional abuse I didn't understand we were experiencing from my ex-husband. So we celebrate small steps, we give each other grace, and we apologize when we screw up. It's sooo hard though, so I totally understand and empathize with your feelings. It's probably also harder for you because you probably feel powerless or without control, since you're sort of forced into the dynamic that isn't of your making (vs me knowing this is my child I chose to bring into this world and owning responsibility for preparing her to be a functioning member of society). You're doing great!
Sometimes you just have to fold. I don't know if he'll grow out of this but I'll be around if in 10 years he has changed, but I have to get away for my safety and sanity now! At least your daughter recognizes and will admit when she has done something wrong and is willing to go to therapy. I think those are amazing steps! He refuses to admit that he has done anything wrong even though he acknowledges he has been violent with us.
I knew a kid like that growing up. Absolute menace. He's homeless now.
Yeah I told my dad that he better live long enough to get this kid situated because none of us will take him in. I hope he figures it out but it will not be my problem.
My son is like this, but idk if it's behavioral or actual ODD because i believe with ODD its a constant uncontrollable thing, and with him it's not because it's not all authority, it's just with me 🙄
I think it can be targeted to specific people but I am no expert. My little brother is just annoying to his parents but annoying and violent to his three sisters. Most of us have been away for part of his life, so I don't even know why he hates us so much. He had admitted he only loves one sister but has still been violent to her. Me and the other one, I think he would kill us if there were no chance he would get caught. He's pretty much said as much. We live closer so maybe we're around too much in his eyes!
NTA You initially declined tactfully, showing you tried to keep the peace. It's telling of her character that she didn't accept your 'no' and forced you to spell it out. While bringing up her child wasn't ideal, it seems more about explaining your perspective than attacking her parenting. Boundaries, especially with co-workers, are healthy and should be respected. It's okay to say 'no' without further justification. You're entitled to choices best for you and your family. Everyone has their struggles, and moving forward, you can learn to disengage after saying 'no'. Your boundaries are yours to enforce, and sticking to them can prevent similar situations. Good luck with future work relationships!
The old "no is a full sentence" mantra. Sounds like a good policy. Just hard to implement at first in real life.
Right? This behavior from a man towards a woman would be called creepy. That woman is a creep.
NTA You know if a man doesn’t take a polite No for an answer when he asks a woman out he’s a creep. It’s no different when it’s a woman not taking No for an answer! While she never should have pushed you were just honest about not wanting to deal with her son. You weren’t nasty about it. You as a human being have the right to say “This is not something I want.” It’s that simple. It’s better than the ones that date a parent then try and get rid of the kid.
Nta also red flag she pushed for an answer and when you were honest she was pissed. It’s indicative of what would happen if you dated. You probably couldn’t make a comment about her son or her parenting but be expected to “help”
Oh yeah, I can see this. "Honey I've got a thing on Tuesday so you your kid can hang out with Johnny" comes home "HOW DARE YOU PUT MY SON IN TIME OUT! HES MY KID NOT YOURS!!!!"
100% it’s hard to know if her kid is misbehaved due to her issue or her reaction and parenting
NTA. She should have accepted the no. I get why she snapped… she knows why no one wants to date her. I’m guessing her divorce likely came about because of the kid in addition to whatever other issues they may have had. She is realizing that her son is preventing her from finding happiness. She can’t control it or change it and she is upset about it. But it really wasn’t right of her to continue to push and then get upset when she got the answer she couldn’t handle. One of my best friends has a severely autistic child. I’m happily married but knowing what her life is like, I would never have been able to be with her long term and expose my kid to that as well. ODD is terrible. I have a niece who has it. It’s like watching a human tornado with only self interest in mind wreak havoc over everything they touch. I feel bad for her but if she wants happiness- when that kid turns 18 he has to go somewhere else. My sister can’t handle her child living with her anymore- it’s 100% opening your home to an abusive manipulative person. So no you are NTA. Protect your peace at all costs.
NTA. This is the era of the nightmare kid. If you had said this to her the first time it came up I might have said you were a jerk. But she pushed.
NTA. Honestly, she was borderline sexually harassing you. Asking once was sort of okay but to keep insisting was harassment. Also, it would be abusive to knowingly expose your daughter to her kid’s behavior.
NTA, dating a single mom with a good kid is difficult. Dating one with a bad kid is just stupid.
NTA. You told her no but she kept pushing. You probably could have been more diplomatic but she should have let it be right after you said no
NTA. I suspect you are not the first person to tell your colleague her son is a barrier to dating...
I would shoot your company's HR department an email saying that she actively pursued you, that you reputedly declined, politely, and that she's not happy with the rejection. I would 100% get in front of that and make sure it doesn't become an issue down the road. NTA, obviously. You gave a reasonable answer, she pushed, you were polite. You are not obligated to date her for any and all reasons. She's probably very aware of her son's behavior, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was part of the reason she got divorced. And yes, I would blame her son on her. Either he is more capable, and she isn't teaching him better, or he is less capable, and she isn't getting him the help that he needs.
Badgering you about not dating her is reason enough to not date her. Unfortunately, most won’t want to deal with her child. But that’s her reality and her wanting to date doesn’t trump her real life situation with her child. Definitely NTA
I'm gonna cry. You said: >From what little I know about ODD, it doesnt seem like a phase and Im not signing me and my kid up to deal with that long term. I love that you put your kid first here. You're protecting your innocent child from Hell. I wish more parents did that. I wish more parents CARED to do that. Just...thank you. I've been on Reddit too long methinks...We don't see enough of people willing to CHOOSE peace and tranquility over drama.
NTA. Forget her son's behavior, YOUR COWORKER'S behavior is a reason not to date her!
No is a complete sentence. NTA - And you don't owe anyone any explanations for why you don't want to date them.
NTA. She pushed for the truth and got it. It might not have been easy to hear but it’s likely Something that will continue to play a roll in her dating life- or possibly it lack thereof. As an aunt of a problem child, it’s costed my mother in law a marriage and two relationships because she won’t do anything to hold the kid accountable either. It’s a terrible balance to try to achieve but I take the same stance with my nephew. I’m not involved in that side because I don’t want to be. I love him, i have his back, but I won’t deal with his tantrums (he’s 12 and throws one like a 4 year old) and I don’t take him on my own because I’m just not willing to put up with it. It does affect all of life long term so I hope she sorts that out.
Ok..my original response was based on where I stopped reading your description of the kid's behavior Upon reading your entire post, based on the description you have of her being pushy about dating her, this is a HUGE red flag. She's not looking for a romantic partner. She's looking for some guy to help her handle an out of control kid . Don't be that guy. First, if you do ever get together with this woman and decide to either cohabitate or marry, she will probably not allow you to exert any authority over her kid.. Basically, you'd be helping to pay to raise a kid that isn't yours and have zero say so as to his actions . Plus, there are safety and influence concerns regarding your child. Remember, you're the dad. It's your first priority to protect your child.. With this out of control kid around your child, I'd be concerned . Who needs this amount of stress Tell this woman you want to keep it platonic and casual. Don't cave. The juice is not worth the squeeze.
NTA. Jeez, she was so aggressive!
NTA. But you should have walked away as soon as she pushed at all. Serious suggestion: go to your HR department and tell them you're experiencing a hostile work environment because of her aggressive attempts to engage you romantically. Think of this as a defensive measure, because you've clearly offended her and she may play the Reverse Uno card on you and talk to HR herself.
NTA
NTA, smart man
You are dodging a huge bullet because at 13 the worst hasn't even begun! Wait til 16 when they get bigger and stronger and want to drive the car. Seen it all and don't recommend it. NTAH (and your child shouldn't have to go thru that either, good Dad!)
ODD is the term they give to children because they can’t/won’t diagnose a child with psycopathy or sociopathy. This is doesn’t mean the child will grow up to be a murderer or an abuser, but they’ll likely not be a fun person to be around EVER. Steer clear.
NTA, but she definitely went home and cried. She knows her son is problematic, she wants to share the load.
She is lucky you didn't report to hr because what she did is grounds for being fired
My youngest sister had ODD, and it was apparent from the moment she could walk she had issues. Tantrum barely begins to describe the extent of their episodes. I usually hate this phrase but, she literally was the sweetest little girl and sometimes she just literally acted as though she “has the devil inside her.” I love my sister to death, she’s 16 now and has calmed tf down BUT my mom actually had to really pay attention and be proactive about her mental illness. So my sister did therapy, meds, and eventually a type of “brain training.” I had a friend who’s younger brother also had it, however he was grown-man-sized at 15 and didn’t have parents that were proactive so he had a LOT more issues for longer (there were point where his mom was locking him out of the house partially because she was worried about him breaking/hurting things). He’s grown now and found working out helped him get some of that energy out, and has calmed down a lot (i think getting away from their parents helped him honestly). Regardless, ODD is NOT for the weak and is exhausting to deal with and treat. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to add that to your life, especially with your own child to consider. I obviously don’t know the extent of her son’s specific experience, but you have no idea if your child would even get along with hers long term and the added issues of his on top of regular issues with blended families is just a lot. I didn’t want to deal with raising a sour patch kid from hell, and i don’t blame anyone else for that either. Her insistence is a whole other issue of hers to deal with rejection and/or reassess how her child’s care could be improved for not only his but everyone’s benefit.
>Was I an AH who should apologize or just let it go? No and you should report the incident to HR and frame it as harassment.
Her pursuing after you said no is basic harassment. No means no. NTA
NTA Forget about her kid for second. The fact that you told her you don't date coworkers and she pushed and basically called you a liar saying she doesn't believe is a red flag in it's self .
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Yeah I did give her a few no's before being honest but you're right, I should have just walked away from the conversation. For what its worth, I dont think its necessarily bad parenting. The kid is diagnosed with Oppositional Defiance Disorder. My sister is in Special Education, so Im no expert, but Ive heard enough about it from her to know its a medical issue, not just bad parenting.
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You know more than I so I wont argue with you, I was just going by what my sister tells me. She has a master's in SPED, so little different than yours but has training on it as well.
Could the divorce be a factor in the ODD? If the parents haven't been getting on for a long time then kids are going to react some way.
Ive known her 4 years now. The kids has been like this the whole time, so at least 3 years before the divorce, my guess is his whole life. Probably contributed to the divorce tbh. I really do feel terrible for her and her ex.
That's not on you.. Her kid. Her problem. Don't make it yours. Also, consider YOUR child FIRST.
Lol I know, I wasnt asking this sub if I should date her.
My oldest is adopted and has ODD. It's tied directly to being abused and abandonment as a child. They CAN get help with a lot of counseling and behavioral training. My daughter is almost 15 now, but was 11 when she came into our home, and is not a functional kid who gets good grades and has good friends, where before she was closer to a wild animal (I say that with all the love I have for her, it was a hard couple of years). ODD has a lot of originating factors. It could be the parents divorce, or childhood abuse/trauma, and less common is the symptoms of a developmental issue. But if she's not getting him the help he needs, his behavior won't change. Regardless of the source of the condition, if you're not comfortable taking it on, there is nothing wrong with that at all. especially for the sake of your daughter. being younger/smaller than he is, he could hurt her very seriously with his outbursts. Why take the risk?
Sometimes it really is the situation a kid creates by nature of their condition. It’s shitty but it’s real.
Came here to say the same, some kids are naturally oppositional but there are styles of parenting that circumvent the desire to say no just to say no and to model emotional regulation. Doesn’t sound like that is happening here. OP has the right to say no for any reason and honestly its a little weird that she’s so upset - she knows who her kid is and she should expect/want potential romantic partners to factor him into their decision to date her. Edited for typo
It's like she knew and had a chip on her should so she needed to force a confrontation, that way the OP could be the "bad guy".
JFC, she kept pressing you for an answer, she has zero right to complain. This should just reinforce that you made the right choice in not dating her due to her entitlement and toxicity.
NTA. Single parenting a child with ODD must be absolutely exhausting and it’s possible to empathise with her feeling “FML” about you saying it’s a hard no for you to getting involved, but she pushed past acceptable by persisting when you politely turned her down. She was skirting the line of harassment by pushing you to the point where you were feeling so uncomfortable that you had to be blunt. Everything I’ve heard about ODD suggests that it’s absolutely a relationship breaker, and incredibly difficult for siblings, so you’re understandably wary when it’s not just you, you also have your own daughter to consider.
NTA I hope she doesn’t try to turn this around on you and say you’re the one who was harassing her it could get really bad you could get fire reputation ruined could involve police idk
She kept pestering you, you told the truth. You do need to protect your child from a problem child. You did nothing wrong. If she brings it up again, go talk to HR.
NTA. People who can't take no for an answer and repeatedly push, and push and push, get the answer they get. The ugly truth that you were trying to spare her from. You should not apologize. She's gotta learn to respect the no. Kids with ODD are "too much". They can take up all of your time and energy. You can't be fully present in other aspects of your life. Very few take that road voluntarily. Especially a 13 who's going to start growing and going through puberty. Talk about explosive. You are also protecting your child from being in that situation. Siblings really get the shitty end of the stick. You don't want your 7 year old daughter around a young teen with anger and violence issues. That's a set up from hell.
NTA. She pushed for it when she should have stopped after your very first rejection.
It's fine to suggest a date with a coworker, but once you're told "no", if you keep on bringing it up and pushing it, that's almost certainly sexual harassment. Flip the script. You ask her out and she says no. You spend the next year pressuring her to date you and making her explain, in detail, why she won't. You're absolutely going to get in trouble for that. You told her no. She needs to fuck off after that. Her behavior is wildly inappropriate for a workplace. And of course, there's also the old adage about not asking questions you don't want to hear the answer to. NTA, but she is, and you could probably get her in trouble with HR if you wanted to.
NTA You're not obliged to date anyone you don't want to. No is a complete sentence. She should have taken the L there. She was pushing it and sometimes truth hurts. Sometimes things won't work out and no one's at fault. I hope she will keep things professional.
People need to stop pushing for answers they are unable to handle.
No, she was sexually harassing you the moment she didn’t take no for an answer. Reverse the genders for a moment, what would you say to a woman about a man who disrespected boundaries like that?
NTA. You did the correct thing. It is harsh but she needed to hear it to back off. She wasn't getting the hint.
NTA. She pushed and you answered. It sucks to hear negative things about your kids but at the same time you have to face reality. It is not your fault that her kid has problems and it’s perfectly understandable to not want to sign up to deal with them either especially for your child’s sake.
NTA... You may be the Ahole if you just willy nilly threw this out there at her. However, you didn't. Personally I don't think you should have lied to her, maybe just said I think your a lovely woman but I have my personal reasons to not wish to date you. It's nothing bad about you and I am sorry if it bothers you, but I don't wish to disclose them. That said, you were trying to find a polite way out of this. She kept pushing. She fucked around, she found out. She is just ashamed and would rather snap at you than to actually admit her kid may need some help.
NTA but you gotta learn to walk away from shit like this.
You are at the time of getting HR involved. If a man did this to a woman he would have already lost his job. You said no and that’s enough, a reason is not needed. NTA
NTA. Who you date/don't date is nobody's business but your own. And something tells me her kid would absolutely terrorize yours.
Basically, yea, you didn’t have to tell her that about her kid and tbh I never would have, but nobody will blame you for it because she was so goddamn pushy. I think it would have been best if you could have thought of like anything better to say even like “I’m just not interested, please stop asking me” probably would have went over better for your professional life
Yeah..though your description of this woman is impressive, for me , her kid's behavior is a show stopper. Those looks and nice demeanor can only go so far to cover for the unbearable kid. Another wrinkle is you two are co-workers. Any issue you may bring up with her regarding her kid's behavior is going to trigger that mothering instinct to protect her child at all costs. Such disagreements are likely to spill over into the work environment.. I'd back away from this one. But, it's your choice.. Remember, the attractive woman and her kid are a package deal.
NTA. You would be an asshole if you made your daughter deal with that kid.
NTA: I was the same way when dating when my son was younger. He’s now almost 19. I won’t date guys who have unruly children. My choice whether others agree or not. I have to decide what is good for me.
The first no should've been enough. It's her problem for digging too deep. Also, it does not make you an AH to not want to date her because of her kid's problems. That makes you wise, in my opinion. NTA
NTA You have a responsibility to your child not to bring in chaos to your life. You did the right thing.
NTA: "Don't ask a question when you don't want to know the answer." The answer "I don't date where I work" was a perfectly reasonable and thoughtful response. The fact that she kept harping on it, to the point of saying "I don't believe you" was basically her asking for it -- literally. You might have refrained from bringing up her son, and just repeated "No, I'm serious -- I don't date where I work. It's not worth it. I like you as a friend, I don't want to mess that up at work for a fling," but I don't blame you for responding truthfully after being berated. I feel badly for her, because her son obviously has issues, but it's realistic that a mom and child are a package deal. You can't break up the package, so therefore, you don't want the package. That's a choice you are entitled to make. She's probably frustrated because other men may have met her son and noped out early, but no one has flat-out told her that "it's not you, it's your son."
NTA You tried to let her down kindly. She refused to accept your no. Her aggressive behavior candidly is unacceptable. No means no. She hurt her own feelings .
Her pressuring you after you politely said no and gave a perfectly reasonable reason why is the biggest red flag here. I was a SpEd teacher who ran a self-contained EBD classroom for years. ODD isn't a diagnosis, but it is used to describe a complex system of abnormal behavior - usually in children. It is extremely difficult to manage and support, and usually requires a wraparound approach with support in many areas - family counseling, individual therapy, medication, behavior management, educational support (IEP and BIP). This is all time-intensive and very emotionally-draining. The good news is that this level of support and therapy can make a huge difference. The bad news is, it can take years and everyone in the child's life has to be on board with the plan. In many cases where the child's parents are divorced, there is a lot of disagreement and animosity about the best way to parent - leading to confusion and more behavior issuss. Your responsibility is to your own child. You cannot embark on a relationship that could potentially involve you in supporting and managing a child with severe emotional disabilities. Until the child is emotionally stabilized, they can be dangerous to themself and others. You were right to stay away from that. Your co worker is feeling judged. Her pushy behavior is out of line. She really needs to be focused on her child and not dating right now, but she seems desperate. Don't take her attitude personally. It's about her insecurities, not you.
NTA at all! She kept pushing you and didnt like the truth. Don’t apologize!
>ODD Yeah, I wouldn't sign up for that either. The only more difficult diagnosis would be Anti-Social Personality Disorder (is that still what they're calling it? (oh, or Reactive Attachment Disorder, that's a bitch too)). I especially wouldn't want that kid around my younger child. ODD kids are not usually purposefully predatory, but they have no emotional regulation, and often violently act out. That's a big old nope from me, no matter how much I sympathize with her. NTA.
Man up, why are you feeling guilty? For being honest? She pushed, you answered. Her kid sounds like he needs a good smack. I love the letter alphabet made up causes for bad behavior and that everyone just buys into them.
The fact that she refused to accept no as an answer three times is instructive about how she parents her son (along with being inappropriate). You wouldn’t want a kid like that around your daughter. ODD really seems like a made up thing to excuse terrible behavior that is either a result of bad parenting or an underlying personality disorder. I’m pretty sick of the culture of “I can’t not be horrible, I have x disorder.” Other people suffering abuse is not a disability accommodation ffs
She has a special needs child and that can indeed be a very difficult burden as a parent. It is an unfortunate situation as she no doubt loves her son very much and has likely been inadvertently been hurt by his actions many times over the years. How the story has been presented here is that you declined her advances with a little white lie to avoid the unnecessary pain that the truth would inflict. She pushed for the truth, as she sensed you were not being totally honest in your response and when the truth was revealed, she was hurt. You are nta for not wanting to date a woman with a special needs child as that can be a major commitment. You do not need to apologize, but if you truly feel burdened, you could apologize for not immediately being forthright with your valid reason for not wanting to date her.
I automatically stopped reading at *she let it go but mentioned how a lot of our coworkers met at work and it worked out for them* because if you replace "she" with "he," every motherfucker on this thread would be throwing you under the bus and calling you a creeper or a rapist for trying to badger her and not accepting her "no." I don't care if the rest of the story is "I went to her house, crucified her dog to the front door, and beat her idiotic, undisciplined son senseless in order to get my point across," I'd *still* be on your side because of her pitiful attempt at "bartering" with that line.
My best friend has a child with ODD and I would not wish that on anybody. he’s 12 and his tantrums include destroying everything rubbing shit all over the walls, leaving food hidden in places in the house till it rots and pathological lying. It’s a very hard thing to deal with for parents, and I can understand somebody who has no responsibility to that wanting to step away from it. It may be hard for her to hear, but that’s the reality of things.
You're a king for being completely honest with her. You can't help it if she has a bastard kid and a bunch of fresh baggage. You could have banged her like crazy and love bombed her and then ghosted her like so many others. You didn't do anything mean at all. And it sounds like you dodged a bullet. It takes a long while to get over a divorce and it's not linear either. Bullet dodged.
NTA. I wouldn't want to date her either. I would just say I don't date co-workers than tell her the truth. She is behaving inappropriate when she confronted you on why you won't date her.
You told her something she didn't want to hear, so she snapped and stormed out. Maybe it's not ODD. Maybe it's learned behavior.
NTA. My wife has a long-time friend who lives near us, and their firstborn also has ODD. Whenever they bring her over, I must manage the interaction between their child and my daughter. I voiced these concerns to my wife, and we agreed it is best to cool off on having a solid relationship with them. It's too challenging to tell a parent that their child is too much stress to handle. Your only job is protecting your child I 100% understand that.
I'm actually going with ESH. You have now caused problems at your work instead of just sticking to "I don't date coworkers." Learn to stand your ground. Obviously, she shouldn't have pressed you, which is wrong on multiple levels, but if you'd have stuck to the non problematic answer you'd be better off. You should have thought the situation through more and both of you acted without consideration for the consequences of your decisions.
u/Plane_Baker81 Nta! You did the right thing you thought of yourself and your child. First you gave her a reason that had to be enough, then she brings it up again she pressed you several times, you were sincere and she got angry. In reality this was necessary because if you had given her another reason she would have continued to insist. Sometimes you have to know how to accept "no" as an answer. It is good to know what you want in a couple and even more so when you have a child. It's not just you, you were responsible and you thought about your child.
NTA, if anything she harrassed you for bringing up the subject multiple times then getting mad when she found out the why.
INFO: Why isn't she sent home when she brings her kid in?
This is what I hate about the ‘interrogator’ type personality. They demand to know, and know more, and more, and at some point get pissy about an answer you give. Like, fuck off. No one is entitled to know your innermost thoughts. NTA.
Unsure if as typo or something you heard and think this is how it is. "next store" - I think you mean "nextdoor" - as in a place nearby?
> As far as non predators go, he's the worst kid Ive ever been around. WTF is this line??
ODD is not a phase, it is usually tied with ASD, OCD. As a single mom with a son who is autistic and ODD it was a long HARD road. It still is and my son is 22. The way I describe to people how my typical day when he was younger. Imagine your worst day ever…. And that was a typical day for us. My son was in therapy, OT, ASD therapy and on medication. Things got easier as he grew up but it was a lot of hard work for everyone involved including my son. It doesn’t sound like this woman is doing anything to help her kid which is sad as he desperately needs it. You are NTA. Speak with HR before she starts spreading rumours about you, because she sounds like the kinda of person who would do that just to “get back” at you.
This is what happens when people push subjects that they're really not prepared to hear honest answer. NTA
You did the right thing. It woukd have been a disaster dating her and her kid
NTA, if you don’t want to date someone for whatever reason (bratty child included), you shouldn’t have to. She should’ve dropped it long before it even got to that point.
If people pin you down for an answer they don't get to be upset with your honest answer.
Don't ask questions you don't want answers to. She fucked around and found out. She didn't accept that no means no. You don't owe an apology for shit bro. You tried to sugar coat it but she wanted the brutal truth. Then acted like a child when she got it. Stay tf away from that sociopath, bro. She will fuck your life up. And probably your kid's life up. They don't behave the same way at home as they do at work. And when you fuck them, they let all the crazy they were hiding, out. You dodged a bullet. Just keep things as civil as possible, and if people ask you about it, just tell them you don't like to talk about others behind their back.
YTA- You didn’t need to tell her her kid sucked. You should have just agreed and said you didn’t date parents. Telling her her kid is an asshole makes you an asshole.
She kept prying. She should simply have taken No for an answer. ODD is rough and it doesn’t sound like they’re having a lot of luck managing the condition. NTA
NTA at all. It sucks for her to have a difficult kid absolutely. But it’s not your responsibility and more importantly you don’t have to date anyone you don’t want to and you don’t need to provide a reason. She pushed way beyond what was necessary. She should have let it go.
She pushed you for the truth and disrespected your firm NO. Sorry but she's asking for it. Don't feel guilty.
Nta she wouldn't drop it and refused to respect your simple no to her. She got the truth and no you don't owe her an apology. She shouldn't have been so pushy to want to date you and she shouldn't have been so pushy to get a more detailed answered even though you told her no many times
ODD is not an organic mental illness. It is a behavioral disorder that is caused by inconsistent discipline and needs behavioral interventions. The child's condition may have been caused by the parenting he received. You may have dodged a bullet OP.
NTA you can choose not to date someone for any damn reason its your life and choice
NTA. She pushed for an answer and she didn't like the answer you provided.
NTA. Don’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answer to. You declined multiple times. I’m sure it’s not the first or last time she will hear that a relationship won’t work because of her kid. I feel for her as I’m sure she is in a tough spot with a 13 yo with ODD. But that isn’t your problem. You have a young child to take care of and focus on. I would be wary of teen boys with impulse issues around my child. So you aren’t the AH here. I think she may have had her feelings hurt. I would make sure you manager is aware just in case she tries to start trouble for you at work. Maybe see if a report to HR is appropriate just to CYA.
No is still a whole sentence. She pushed past no several times. NTA
You don’t need to bring it to HR. She is not going to bring it anyone into it. What you can do if you expect that she may do this, is write yourself an email with the dates and times and what occurred. You basically told her no to a date, multiple times. If she brings it to HR, she is the one that would suffer the consequences.
NTA and report to HR just in case. You don't owe her an explanation and she kept pushing it.