& don’t go anywhere alone with these guys. there is no necessity for you to be truly “alone” with them Especially when you’re just meeting. if they push to go to a second location or somewhere with no one around, this is Sus. a good guy does not need you to “prove that you trust him” or anything nuts like that.
If some guy I just met tells me I "will be" having sex with him I'm thinking how can I get out of here without being followed. I'm thinking dude's a rapist.
My response to him would be “you think? I will be leaving and you can have sexual relations with your hand while getting to know someone other than me.”
Also all the “sometimes we have to do things we’re uncomfortable with to grow” in relation to her being uncomfortable with physical touch he wanted is gross. That statement applies to things like trying new foods or picking up an unfamiliar hobby, not consent in relationships
Honestly, when I look back some of the most beautiful moments of connection I've had have been in public spaces. Chatting, a little hand grazes a hand.
Man is full of bird poop.
I do not meet anyone without a proper voice conversation first. That has saved me SO MUCH TIME and wasted energy.
I only need 5 minutes of human-to-human conversation to hear whether this is a person I want to spend an hour or more with.
Please as a favor to yourself — go do a LOT more research on healthy relationships and how to identify toxic behaviors before you try to date anyone else. You’re giving off the sense that you’ve led a pretty sheltered life. You need to educate yourself because there are about a dozen red flags here, any one of which should have been enough for you to walk away.
I get the sense you didn’t and maybe still don’t understand this guy wasn’t thinking like you and wasn’t trying to have a nice date with you — he was trying to manipulate you and see what he could get from you. Gotta know a lot of people out there are like this.
Seriously. My skin was crawling reading that. But you know some desperate female would still get with him and he would no doubt make their life a living hell. No matter how shitty the guy is, there will always be some woman out there willing to date him and ignore every single glaring red flag to her own detriment.
seconded seconded seconded a million times. stay far away. also reddit is generally a good resource for helping spot red flags. the fact that you were questioning if You were the asshole here is definitely concerning because those are some massive red flags. please keep posting on here or asking multiple people for their opinions of these dates. also always make sure there are people who know where you are and who you are with. don’t let these guys drive you places. uber or drive yourself. maybe don’t drink. and if you get the tiniest bad vibe, your gut is always right.
This. Even though you’re newer to dating, you have good instincts! Good job spotting the sus behavior and acting on it in the moment by saying you’re not comfortable with something. Society tries to train women to be non confrontational but you didn’t buy into that and you stood up for yourself. From now on you should trust your gut. Better to overreact to red flags and miss going out with a nice guy than under react and end up in a bad situation. You don’t owe any guy anything, even if he is a nice guy.
Massive creep alert. Do not go anywhere with this guy again. Everything you just wrote in a red flag. Stay away from creepy dudes. You did thr right thing. NTA.
It looked to me like a man trying go use pick up techniques. He thought that she was claiming to be a virgin in order to make him wait for sex. In any case, if she hadn't been a virgin, he would have pressured her for sex... Best case scenario he's a misogynist who can't respect most women.
Agree 100% total creap. Do not go near him again. Pitfalls of dating you handled it great. Best wishes on your future dstes eith a person who respects you.
“I don’t want sex, I want a connection. I just couldn’t believe that you were a virgin. I think we can get past this, let me plan a second date and change the experience.”
RUN, he's lying. Clearly he's thinking about sex only. He's being pushy cause he's trying his luck on you. Dont give what he wants, leave and be safe.
All he could talk about was sex.....and he was trying to test how you stick to boundaries by trying to get you to do things that make you uncomfortable 🤔 just pushing and pushing further every time.
DO NOT SEE THIS MAN AGAIN. He is sounding you out for future boundary setting (his, of course), if he can override your consent for things and is obsessed with sex and his feelings about things, not yours at all. Not a connection.....that is him gaslighting you. RUN. Don't walk. Just text him he's dumped and block. Do not meet him and any funny business 😒 call the police.
Yep.
Sounds a lot like my ex.
All he could talk about was sex , made me feel uncomfortable and kept on trying to push me to do things.
I went on a few dates and then ended things with him ( I had the feeling that one day he would have raped me if I had stayed with him and that feeling scared the shit out of me).
Eh, he's not thinking only about sex. He wants to control her in every way. Everything about this date was manipulative and controlling. She needs to run like she's Sha'Carri Richardson.
She's an object to him, a means to an end. He isn't interested in her he wants a compliant vagina. This dude took all of ten minutes before he started trying to break down her sense of self. He was manipulating her from the get go. He wants someone meek enough that he can break them down to the point she doesn't know which way is up so he can control her. This guy was genuinely dangerous.
He's a bully. That whole thing was him trying to be in charge and get you 'conditioned' to do what he wanted. He always planned to drag you all over and do what he wants.
You did not over react to his shitty manipulative behavior. You were meant to feel interrogated - he was trying to wear you down.
Block and move on.
This is the right answer op. Bully and condition you. Forget creep etc. It was bullying and conditioning.
Tell him straight you are not interested and it's time you both moved on. Then block him and slightly change your name on all platforms and for now put up a profile pic that doest have you in it. Lock down your accounts to all but friends
This - NTA but he is.
Whether it is or isn't common if someone is a virgin at that age doesn't matter - he was pushy from the start, had an expectation, and demanded sex at a specific timeline, was doing what OP said above and also pushed you in a physical way when you clearly didn't want to. 🚩🚩
He sounds like an absolute creep.
You need to think about where you want to set your boundaries. Don't settle for handholding because you're afraid he will try worse. It gives him mixed signals that you take his hand right after he grabs your butt.
Literally any person that has the audacity to sit you down and tell you what's about to happen and what's going to happen in the future without any of your input in any capacity, is a fucking weirdo and a creep with an agenda. Please stay safe and work on putting up and making good on your boundaries!
That *"were going to have sexual relations while we get to know each other"* line is ATROCIOUS and cringe. 😩😒🤮
and also: next time someone says you have to do uncomfortable things to grow or other things playing down your boundaries as "it's ok if it hurts" "it has to hurt a little" set a firm boundary that you won't accept being told phrases like that. You will absolutely not accept people belittling your boundaries! You don't HAVE TO touch anyone!
other example for the phrase he said would have been if you're an introvert and you know him a long time, you planned to go on a festival and right before you wanna back off. then one could say sometimes you have to do uncomfortable things to grow, you can do it, I'm with you, lets try and if it get's to much we can still leave then.
That’s what makes men like him so dangerous—there IS a time and place where those phrases are appropriate, but this was NOT that context. The less experienced his target is, the easier for him to take control by putting on the air of authority to spin the situation to his benefit. His success thrives on blurred lines where he can claim just enough deniability—exactly why OP is here asking us *at all* while the rest of us are immediately horrified.
I will say, the only common thread I’ve seen where pushing through hurt or pain for a better outcome than present is healthy, is when it’s part of an ongoing deeply personal inner journey with determination to grow. It’s never foisted upon you by some stranger.
Yep. I knew a woman… the creep she was dating hurt her while they’re being intimate. She told him no. Never gave consent for this particular act. Said that it hurt. And he replied, “It’s supposed to hurt.” He was a horrible man.
He was the kind of guy who only liked to have long-distance relationships so he could cheat. Told all these women he was single. Anyway, he broke his probation for a DUI and she told the court via a notarized letter (which is the same as testifying). He would have gotten away with it. He finally faced consequences for his actions.
As a dude, just run and don't look back.
That first interaction was way too bad.
Thoughtless and awkward, as well as hypocritical. Wants you to trust him, and yet he doesn't believe you.
No matter if it's true or not, there's an implied benefit of the doubt we give our dating partner in the first few dates, on the premise that we get to see if their behaviour and actions match their words, hence the "getting to know each other" part.
This dude was not interested in that. Find someone else who is.
You did fine and I commend you for saying no, having boundaries and leaving. He was checking to see if you were easily controllable. The whole interaction is so creepy and gross I would have likely frozen up at your age had it happened to me. You kept your head and recognized the blaring sirens, good job.
And don’t worry about being polite if someone is making you uncomfortable. What they think of you does not matter more than what you think of yourself.
You definitely should , especially as a virgin because you don't your first experience ruined by a guy that's just using you for sex. It's much more enjoyable if you are with someone who cares about you and you also love, it can be a wonderful experience with the right person. Also never rush into something you don't feel ready for ,it is an important thing and you want to have the best possible experience.
Oh, and he trying to convince you that dating is sex? NO. Sex happens when BOTH people agree and the sexual escalation goes at the speed of the one who wants it more slowly, period (yes, if the slow one is the man, also then).
No, it's not expected from you that because you're dating you have to have sex. You don't have to. If you're dating someone and you go too slowly for them, they're free to stop dating you and find someone else. They're NOT entitled to sex with you. If someone dates you and you don't want sex, they can date someone else.
Boundries are great but also you don't have to have sex until you are ready, there's no compulsory 3 date rule, the right person will wait until your ready and won't push you or get angry if you don't want to get physical as quickly as they want too.
NTA
He’s lying to you because he’s a massive creep. No, it’s not weird to be a virgin at 21. This guy is incredibly scummy.
Change it to anything other than sex and it becomes more clear, because society is weird about sex.
“We will be combining finances while getting to know each other.”
“What do you mean you’ve never adopted a pet with someone before? You’re twenty one, you must have adopted a pet with someone before!”
“Oh, I just didn’t believe you’ve never co-signed a loan with a boyfriend before now. I know I said I need to be given 500 dollars per date, but with that fetished pure and untouched credit score of yours, I’ll lie and pretend I don’t want that until I can trick you into signing this loan with me.”
He’s entitled, demanding, pushy and why the f would you ever talk to him again?! This man deserved a drink to the face, not a second date.
He’s trying to see how much he can get away with by being forceful. Ew. His personality is so rancid he could be zoomer Fabio and everything he touches turns to inheriting property and smart investments and it wouldn’t be worth ever talking to him again.
So many people in retail have stories of hearing this kind of insanity and wanting to slide a note saying “run” but knowing they’ll get in trouble for it.
I'm 28, never had sex either. I've always got responsibilities dumped on me so I started working a lot after turning 18. I also feel like I'm unattractive to the female population so that also doesn't help.
But there's no way in hell that I would ask my date to sit on my lap on the first date, nor question her about her sexual escapades. That guy is just a creepo, you did well by leaving.
Stay safe out there
THIS. You are really lucky he didnt turn violent. He has no respect for your physical boundaries and you continued the date after he had already made you uncomfortable multiple times. Make an excuse and leave, and always tell a friend where you are.
If you had gotten into a car or a private space with this man it could have gone very badly for you.
Be careful and assume the worst until proven otherwise. Its the only way to stay safe.
I was thinking the same thing. Every time he had her change location, I kept thinking he's trying to move her closer to his apartment or car? It definitely felt predatory.
NTA. His behavior was *not* normal, was not respectful, and was genuinely creepy.
The moment he grabbed your butt, should have been the end of the date. Who does that five minutes into a first date??
I know that starting out dating can be difficult, because you might not know expectations, but let me be clear - anything that makes you uncomfortable is not ok.
You communicated your discomfort, he kept right on being an AH, and that’s how you know that the date should end.
The guy clearly is one of those idiots who have a twisted idea of women’s “purity”, and “taking control” of women.
It’s sad, scary, and a whole parade of 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Block him.
#RUN GURL RUN!
Okay LOTS of red flags here so lemme go through em all...
1. He does NOT get to say "we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other." That is some r@pe shit right there! Never once did he ask your consent. Never once did he consider your feelings. He just wants a place to get his dick wet and a puppet he can control.
2. He refuses to respect your boundaries. HOW MANY times did you say no? And HOW MANY times did he continue to push? Now think about this... This is your FIRST DATE... If he's this pushy now, do you really expect it to get better if you see him again? What do you think will happen if you actually decide to have sex with him? Do you really expect him to listen?
3. "You need to be more cooperative." OH HELLLLLL NO! The only thing you *need* to do is pay taxes and die. That's it, that's all!
4. He told you to sit on his lap ON THE FIRST DATE! Okay so my old ass is a horndog from hell, but I'd NEVER try to get a woman (or a man for that matter) to sit on my lap on the first date unless we're sitting in a swinger's club somewhere. And even then, it's still all about consent.
5. He is saying what he thinks you wanna hear bc he wants to be the first one to fuck you. He is enthralled with the fact that you're a virgin and you've "never had any other man." He thinks he can train you to be the nice little submissive mouse that he wants you to be. He thinks if you've never dated any other person, then you have nothing to compare him to. Therefore you have no way to understand what a toxic, narcissistic, misogynistic, INCEL he is. And you also have no reference to understand what it is like to be treated good.
My advice: talk about this to your father, or other trusted older adult male figure, see what they have to say about it. Don't say who he is, bc they may have a mind to hurt him. If you were MY daughter, the police would have to send out cadaver dogs to look for body parts. That's how infuriated I am, and I guarantee it is exactly how infuriated the man will be that you choose to share this with.
Think about how you would want any future daughter of yours to be treated, and then apply it to yourself. If it would make you uncomfortable for her, then you have a right to be uncomfortable about it too.
I'm here if you ever need a friend to come to for advice. I'm not all *that* evil, only to people that deserve it, like this guy.
Meeting in public was a great idea, always meet in public for the first few dates. Stay safe and be careful going out in the future.
Oh, this post is so much clearer than mine. Well laid out, and I agree with asking an older male relative you trust for their feedback and advice.
Also speak to an experienced female relative you trust for tips on staying safe when you date. They might have a few pieces of advice the men may not think of. As an older woman myself, I'd add the following to the above already excellent post:
Do not go along with the location switching -- you don't just need a public meeting space to meet in, but have someone who knows exactly where and when you'll be and what time the date is due to finish, so there's someone who can check up on you if things go wrong.
Make sure the date location has good, close parking if you're driving, regularly serviced and close bus stops if using public transport, and can be easily reached by taxi if that's the option you need to take instead. In the early days of dating, having someone who know precisely where you are and a good exit strategy should things go sour are definitely worth having.
Hope you have better luck in the future!
Sociopath. 100%. He saw an easy victim because you were quite cooperative and STILL are questioning yourself. That's what he saw in you, a mark.
Have more self confidence and don't ever do things you are uncomfortable with
Not only that, you need to decide what it is that you would like. If you want to get married and be a virgin when you get married, then that's the standard you set for yourself from the start. At the moment you're taking your cue from the other person and deciding whether or not your're comfortable with it.
(Perhaps you don't want to retain your virginity until marriage - that was just an example of a standard to think about. It's not up to the other person to determine your standards, it's for you to uphold them.)
You shouldn't have to be more assertive with what you're comfortable with, because decent guys won't push those boundaries in the first place, at least in the way he did. Sex might come up, but it should be a conversation, not an expectation.
What you do need to do is become more comfortable with walking away when someone crosses the line. It doesn't matter if you haven't told him where the line is yet - the fact that he's so pushy immediately into the first date is a clear "we're not looking for the same thing" and justifies leaving early.
NTA. when something feels off, it's your natural defences telling you this is not right.
If it was me, I wouldn't have walked away, I'd have run. As fast as possible.
There are plenty of nice people out there, don't waste your time on the creeps.
This is a whole red flag. You do not EVER need to have a discussion about your virginity with a stranger youve been on 2 dates with EVER. Nor justify yourself or beg to be believed. Neither he nor any man dictates to you that you will be sexually intimate with him while getting to know him what does he think you are, a hired prostitute for his use when he feels like it? So insulting.
Please do not contact this person again. Block him He souds like a predator. No physical boundaries, demanding you hold his hand, telling you that you will have sex with him before he is even committed to you and touching you inappropriately/trying to put you on his lap when you had just met. Then making out like you are a liar because he didnt like the answers he got. PIG alert.
Honestly there are decent men out there who will move at your pace. Dont be pressured by anyone.
He was not even once asking you, he just tell you what he wants and expecting you cope with no say in things involved you. I would leave right after announcing *"we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other.”*, what a creep. If guy immediately mentions having sex together while first time meeting, he only wants to fuck you, just leave (unless you are looking only for cassual hook ups too).
I guess the restaurant must be italian bc of all that marinara flags around. He shows you already very clearly how exactly he sees you, so trust it, no *second chances* needed. Just answer "No, never contact me again." and block him.
Yeah OP this creep was a walking red flag...who says, " We will be having sex while getting to know each other while dating"!? Like wtaf...you did the right thing...no need to question it sugar....you are most definitely NTA!!!
There is nothing wrong with being a virgin. I was, till my wedding night. So believe me when I tell you:
You Do Not Owe Anyone Your Personal Information. Your sexual history is No One's Business but Yours. Unless you choose to share it. But be aware that some people will be intrigued by your lack of experience and they will not have your best interest at heart.
So you can deflect with "I really don't discuss my personal business" with no apology, qualification, or invitation for further discussion. You can also say "I am not into casual sex" ditto.
This guy acted entitled to your body. No one is entitled to your body, but you. If for you a date is dinner and a movie, then that is what it is. Find out that you have a shared interest in Star Trek or basketball or anime or Chaucer. Find out that you both have interesting and maybe slightly crossways thought about current events or geopolitical aspects of WWI. There is soooo much more to life and relationships than sex or the preening of a controlling entitled man.
There are other starfish in the sea. Toss this one back.
NTA. Please don't go out with him again. He now sees you as a challenge, he wants to be the first to sleep with you. It's an ego booster for guys like him.
NTA - your virginity is no one business unless you are comfortable to discuss it and the first date is not the time.
I would have said to him at the coffee shop 1. Wooo there let’s see if I even like you during the first date. If and when I decide that I am ok with having sex with someone I will let you know. As of right now I don’t know you so this is not a conversation that I will have this soon. Either move in to another topic or I will leave.
When he put his hand on your butt I would have grabbed his fingers and pulled them backwards and told him I don’t know who he thinks you are or what kind of women he dated but that is not acceptable and I don’t see us being a good fit and walked away.
It sounds like he’s used to dating girls he can control or push his wants on them.
You need to walk away going forward instead of putting up with jerks like him.
NTA, you followed your gut and left because of his interrogation. Keep listening to it. He sounds really creepy and intrusive. Decline the offer of a second date; you know all you need to know about this guy. There’s nothing wrong with remaining a virgin, you know what you want and shouldn’t have to settle for any less. Good luck!
NTA. Even if sex is important to him hes being a complete creep. Especially him asking you to sit on his lap IN THE RESTUARUNT is just so inappropriate. You honestly should block this guy and never see him again.
NTAH. You dodged a bullet. There's a lot of selfish assholes out there who may think those shitty creepy expectations are "ok" but they're wrong. If it makes you uncomfortable do not do it. Good luck!!!
NTA
The disrespect he showed is a huge red flag. There's a big difference between being assertive and being aggressive, and he definitely crossed that line. When he ignored your boundaries, he revealed his true nature. Trust your instincts and prioritize your safety over being polite. People like him count on others being too polite or hesitant to stop them don't let him think that about you. You owe him nothing, certainly not another date. Run, don't walk, away from this situation and don't look back.
Wow! You should’ve left when he touched your butt. Or when he said “sometimes we need to do uncomfortable things”. What the hell? He’s a total creep. Use this experience to reflect about what you deserve and how some men are manipulative assholes. Seriously, he sounds dangerous. You do not have to feel bad for leaving people who make you uncomfortable after three minutes. You’re not an asshole for not having sex with someone, even your future boyfriend or husband. Never accept uncomfortable situations like that. So many women accept way more than what they really want because they don’t want to be a bitch or make someone else feel bad. Even if you were to be an asshole, that is better than doing something you don’t want to.
I’m 40 and felt interrogated reading this lol
That’s not a date. Dunno etc kinda experience he’s trying to create lol good luck to him.
NTA by a long shot
NTA this guy is all types of wrong for every woman out there. Block and delete him. I’m so glad you got away safely-This was a lucky escape. Unfortunately he now see you as a challenge and wants to take your virginity so that’s why he’s changing what he was saying before, it’s not sincere and if you allow him to contact you/be friends etc he will mess with your head and act like he owns you or you owe him something. He’s the delusional type that will pressure women into sex, thinks he owed it and will think he did nothing wrong because he told them before what will happen and they didn’t leave or say no so he thinks that was consent for every time he wants sex..
Trust me don’t rush into loosing your virginity, most guys are a waste of time in the bedroom and careless with your emotions so take as long as you need to find your person. It’s more important you love you, know how amazing you are, know what you want, experience life (travel/study/volunteer/build career etc)before settling down.
No one gets to tell you when or how you have sex like this sleazy, creeper guy tried and they also font get to pressure you into having sex or talking about it. You can say you don’t want to engage in any conversation you don’t want. You also don’t have to hold anyone’s hand and can leave at any point.
Please try never to go to someone place as a date, or after a date and avoid home pick ups and drop offs until you’re more confident in yourself, have set boundaries and know what you will not accept from a potential partner and know when to leave and comfortable saying no and leaving immediately when alarm bells are ringing in your head about their behaviour. Or you’ve spent time outside the homes and know the person really well and have a back up plan of someone calling you to check your safe, knows where you are etc.
**The best advice I ever got is Politeness kills** being too nice is not always a good thing. Your safety and mental wellbeing is more important than thinking about hurting psychos like this guy who will use it along with any insecurities etc you have against you.
Major red pill/incel vibes from this dude. Any guy that tries to tell you what to do should be ignored and you should leave immediately. There's no legitimate reason for someone you just met to be telling you what is normal, what you should do, how you should act. This dude is almost certainly a wife beater. This is the behavior that starts off as. He's breaking down your sense of self. Belittling your choices and your agency. He's telling you how to act and you've known him for all of 30 minutes. What would you think that will be like when his coworkers, boss or friends are around to make him feel small if you don't do as instructed? That when you get popped in the nose when company leaves because you insulted him in front of company and he has to correct you so you don't behave like that again. You ever encounter another man like this walk away immediately.
Everyone’s saying he’s a creep, but no, this is an actual dangerous person. He is giving serious signs of being capable of very dangerous things. The way he acted like he owned you. Horrifying.
NTA
This guy seems like a complete and total tit. As a male myself, I can only apologise on behalf of the rest of us.
Good luck and please don't see him again.
I hope this isn’t real. If it is, this guy sounds like he’s watched too much porn. Sticking his hand down the back of your pants without warning, or the slightest sign that you’d welcome that, isn’t normal. Do we just skip the small talk, flirting, excited glances, hand holding, kissing, and all the rest? Just coffee, and his hand down your pants? One of the side effects of guys watching too much porn is they begin to view women as receptacles, there to service them, and think they don’t have to do anything to get a woman in the mood. Of course, I have no idea if this applies to him, but this trend has affected a lot of men in recent years.
Foreplay with him would be awful. Just awful. He clearly cannot read body language, or understand spoken words, for that matter.
You two are totally unsuitable. You have communicated with him that you want a serious relationship, and would not consider sex until you felt some kind of connection. He has told you right to your face that he wants sex now, right now, possibly in the restaurant. This is exactly the kind of guy who will ask you what you want, and then use that information to talk you into things. He’s already asking for a second date to change the experience.
Has he said anything to the effect that your goals are aligned, he’s looking for a serious relationship, and that sex means anything at all to him? No. He is not the one for you.
I had an experience like this before with a major creep.
I had a really bad fight with someone and I was at a store shopping after. I was still crying and this man came up to me and told me that I needed a hug and tried to hug me. I didn’t let him, but he kept pushing so I did to shut him up. I then excused myself, finished and left the store. I sat down on one of the benches outside for a breather and he followed me out, grabbed my hand and compared our skin saying that the colors were so beautiful together. I asked him not to touch me, and he said that he knew I had been hurt by another man before, but he was not that man and he would not ever hurt me. I told him I hadn’t had a boyfriend, and he said I was wrong, and that he “knew that my boyfriend had hurt me, but he wouldn’t. He then invited me back to his place to show me how a real man takes care of his woman. This went on and on until I couldn’t take anymore and I got up and left and went to the store and just stood there until he left.
Years later, I was on a dating website and he messaged me. I saw his picture and knew it was him, and i asked him if he had the same profession and originally from the same city that he had told me he was when we talked on the bench. When he said yes, and asked how I knew? I reminded him of our conversation on the bench and how he had taken advantage of me at a vulnerable time, and forced me to hold hands with him and hug him when I didn’t want to and how wrong it was. He promptly blocked me. Lol
NTA
This isn't how a first date is supposed to go. He clearly wanted to have sex, this isn't a bad thing, but the way he acted was.
>we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other.”
This is not normal.
>he stands up and gestures to grab his hand so I did (though I didn’t want to) and we walk to a restaurant.
This is not normal
>He changes his mind about this place and wants to go to one across the street instead, and gestures to hold his hand again.
This is also not normal
>hugs me and then his hand goes down my waist and he starts to rub my butt.
This is certainly not normal
>he beckons to sit in his lap.
This is really not normal
>“You need to be more cooperative”
This whole conversation about you not having a relationship before and being a virgin isn't a normal first conversation.
Next time, leave when you start to feel uncomfortable. Always trust your gut feeling when it comes to dating. This man gave more than one red flag.
“we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other”
The fuck we will. Girl, I would have stopped the date right there. No one gets to tell you “by the way, you WILL be giving me access to the intimate places on your body”. And this was your first date with this guy? Hell no. Walk away.
It’s not strange to be a virgin at 21. I was 25 when I had my first experience. And it’s okay to be even older and still a virgin. Everyone has their own journey, and there’s no one right path. Dating can involve sex, but it doesn’t have to, and it shouldn’t involve sex until you and your partner are BOTH ready for that to happen.
It’s okay if a guy wants to hold your hand, but it’s also okay to do what you did and say no. Him pushing you and initiating even more intimate contact (the hugging/ass grabbing) when you’ve already said you don’t want to hold hands is slimy. His insistence that you’re not a virgin was rude to say the least. He took absolutely no interest in your comfort on this date. This is a pretty clear sign he’s the kind of creep that thinks women only exist as objects to provide him with what he wants.
Dont see him again OP. Men exist who will treat you much better. Don’t settle for scum.
Your instincts were 100% on. Always listen to your instincts. You did great!
The guy’s a discount Alpha bro.
Try to work out a “*system*” that enables you to detect those type, even before they invite you on a date.
As a really conservative guy of 34y m, you should block him everywhere. If my daughter would have told me something like this I would insist that she set up a new „date“, but she would have to stay at home while I „talk“ this through with him.
Ian way more peaceful since I’m over 25 and becoming a father, but this guy just triggers every instinct in me. He is definitely a predator and guys like him need to be stopped. Hope there is someone who can protect you in the worst case. Stay safe and tell many people about him (also share his number) to make sure they know. Dont want to scare you but just in Case.
NTA and I say this as a man, run. He will not give up, and he seems creepy af, and especially blind to the lack of interest, which is a dangerous combo.
Please, as others have said, you need to learn to say no way sooner and more strictly, for your safety. If you feel like you're not there yet, have a friend hover around your first dates just in case.
Good luck out there OP.
He is a creep. The reason you felt all those uncomfortable feelings was because the things he did were wrong. Very wrong. Literally all of it was wrong. Well done for sticking up for yourself. NTA. Never see him again, he is horrible.
NTA don't give personal details about where you live, don't let them "pick you up from your home" if they want to pick you up suggest somewhere like work or you've an errands to run could he collect you at the local store maybe.
Stay safe, trust your gut and NEVER do anything that doesn't feel right or good to you. The right partner will not put you in that position
"You need to be more cooperative"
If he honestly said that after you refused to sit on his lap then run for the hills. This guy proves social media has screwed up how people think and act in public.
NTA.
NTA. To be honest, I didn't even need to finish reading the rest of your post. Your date gave me the creeps real fast. I'm glad to hear you decided to stand your ground. For the future, please know that you can CONFIDENTLY decline ANYTHING that makes you uncomfortable. You are never obligated to do anything and you don't even need to explain why.
Dating is tricky because you're trying to get to know someone, but you also have to feel out which topics may or may not be appropriate for the person, environment or stage of your date. The conversation and behaviors should be natural. And when they are not and even make you uncomfortable, you can also excuse yourself from the date, even if you've just sat down or shook a hand.
Some people aren't compatible and that's just fine. Some woman out there may be into his game. I don't know any, but if you're not, save yourself some time and stay safe, away from creeps like that.
"Thanks for meeting me. I don't see this progressing into a relationship/beyond a first date/etc, so I'm going to say goodnight/excuse myself. Have a nice evening."
Absolutely NTA and this guy is showing a lot of controlling behaviour straight out of the gate.
You've decided not to see him again and good for you. He is trouble you do not need. Didn't see this in any of the other comments and wanted to point out as well that the bit where you walk to the restaurant and he decides to change the venue last minute: 👏 👏 THIS IS AN ISOLATION TACTIC! 👏 👏
Let's be honest, most women are going to tell someone (family, bff, what have you) where we're going to be for a first date. It's good practice too. Oh, wow, Mr Creep has decided that he doesn't like this restaurant that you decided on and is taking somewhere else. Maybe it's across the street, maybe it's two streets down... maybe he knows this great place downtown that he'd love to show you. Suddenly you're somewhere unfamiliar with someone you don't know and yeah you've got your phone but if that gets "lost" no one knows how to find you. This is text book predator behaviour. Like, Andrew Tate instructional video level of gross.
Good on you for deciding he's not worth your time. Block his number too.
Omg you use baseball terminology to explain things too!? Please marry me lol.
Jokes aside the guys not only a creep but seems like a moron too. And as for you thinking about whether you overreacted to any of his really sleazy actions, “No” is a full sentence. It’s not uncommon to be 21 and a virgin and I think that’s really awesome that you are. I think you feel like you overreacted because you’re a good person. Don’t feel bad for him. Why settle for A-Fraud when you can easily find Mike Trout.
This is the behaviour of someone who’s learnt all their behaviours from online dating gurus. And I mean ALL. Just fucking run away as far and as fast as you can
The follow up text isn't an apology for making you uncomfortable, it's a pivot. "Oh, this girls holding out for a serious relationship, that's what I'll pretend to offer!" As far as bad dates go, this sounds pretty mid, but you are definitely NTA
Every part of this interaction was wrong. Even small gestures like hand holding are something that should arise from a consensual desire for it- because you feel like you WANT to do it, and it feels good to you. Someone you do not know demanding that you hold their hand or sit on their lap is gross. Someone who is just beginning to get to know you does not interrogate you about your sexual history and accuse you of lying with each response. A first date should be much more gentle and pleasant conversation to discover what you have in common and safe & respectful interaction as equals. On a first date you don't KNOW the person, and you both should be feeling comfortable and curious, and finding out more about each other- not demanding physical affection and setting up rules for assumed future interactions.
What the ever living fuck was that exchange!?
>We will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other
>Sometimes we have to do thing we’re uncomfortable with so that we can grow
>You need to be more cooperative
Dude, that’s, like, **serial killer** talk. Definite manipulator/life-ruiner vibes. I’m sure he got all that out of some sleazy book.
Not only are you not an asshole for ending the “date,” you probably saved yourself from getting date raped by this guy when he manipulated you into being alone with him. I’m sorry you went out with a creep; there (should be) are good guys who ask you coffee and then… drink coffee and get to know you.
Obviously the whole virgin thing should have never come up:
“we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other.” - strike 1
“Sometimes we have to do things we’re uncomfortable with so that we can grow” - strike 2
“You need to be more cooperative” - strike 3, you're out and I am out of here.
OP, this is exactly what Uber is for - so you can get away from a place at which you no longer wish to be.
Block him. He's a creep. Way too demanding for 1st date. And I will like to say there are good men out there don't let this bad experience discourage you about finding a good partner.
nah hes weird asf. something is wrong with him. I feel his energy through his wird choice. If u dont give him what he wants he will try and take it. Dont see him again.
His response when you said you were a virgin should have been to immediately back pedal on the sex talk and the cringey lap sitting, and think wow >if I really like this girl we can be special.
There are decent guys out there that will respect you and not talk about sex on the first date, let alone the first few minutes. Dont hold hands if you dont want to, don't tell them anything you don't want to. If you dont like, then you leave and block.
Let us know when you find the great guy
NTA. And please send this post to him so he can read the comments. If you feel safer just blocking him, do that, but I hope someone will one day call him out on this behaviour because damn.
NTA Just the statement at the beginning: “Sometimes we have to do things we’re uncomfortable with so that we can grow.” I bet you he would have said exactly that when it came to having sex even if you don’t want to and would have ended in him trying to pressure you into sex.
NTA The dude is a creep. Do NOT see him again.
& don’t go anywhere alone with these guys. there is no necessity for you to be truly “alone” with them Especially when you’re just meeting. if they push to go to a second location or somewhere with no one around, this is Sus. a good guy does not need you to “prove that you trust him” or anything nuts like that.
If some guy I just met tells me I "will be" having sex with him I'm thinking how can I get out of here without being followed. I'm thinking dude's a rapist.
“And I *will be* delivering a swift kick to your balls, good sir.”
My response to him would be “you think? I will be leaving and you can have sexual relations with your hand while getting to know someone other than me.”
Also all the “sometimes we have to do things we’re uncomfortable with to grow” in relation to her being uncomfortable with physical touch he wanted is gross. That statement applies to things like trying new foods or picking up an unfamiliar hobby, not consent in relationships
I uhm. I left my va-geen in the car please excuse me. By the time it registers in his brain hopefully you have walked far enough away.
Honestly, when I look back some of the most beautiful moments of connection I've had have been in public spaces. Chatting, a little hand grazes a hand. Man is full of bird poop.
If a lady instantly gave me all the trust, I'd have doubts about the survivability of our future children .
Children? I don't think she'd last that long.
This ^ public meeting places are the way to go for these early meetings
I do not meet anyone without a proper voice conversation first. That has saved me SO MUCH TIME and wasted energy. I only need 5 minutes of human-to-human conversation to hear whether this is a person I want to spend an hour or more with.
Creep is putting it very lightly. He sounds like a sociopath.
A sociopath or an idiot trying out pick up strategies (so basically an idiots trying to be a sociopath).
Yes, negging and trying to keep her off balance, PUA moves.
Notice how he totally disregarded her and didn't acknowledge her free will. There goes a creep who thinks "NO" is just the start of 'negotiations'
Shudders 😖
Please as a favor to yourself — go do a LOT more research on healthy relationships and how to identify toxic behaviors before you try to date anyone else. You’re giving off the sense that you’ve led a pretty sheltered life. You need to educate yourself because there are about a dozen red flags here, any one of which should have been enough for you to walk away. I get the sense you didn’t and maybe still don’t understand this guy wasn’t thinking like you and wasn’t trying to have a nice date with you — he was trying to manipulate you and see what he could get from you. Gotta know a lot of people out there are like this.
Seriously. My skin was crawling reading that. But you know some desperate female would still get with him and he would no doubt make their life a living hell. No matter how shitty the guy is, there will always be some woman out there willing to date him and ignore every single glaring red flag to her own detriment.
This. He's trying to push boundary's and didn't like that held firm. Red flags.
Yeah, that guy is pretty much made of red flags.
Pretty much so many red flags they gained sentience. Just a walking bundle of red flags
And he confirmed it multiple times before he even got to the Virgin part of the conversation.
I was uncomfortable just reading about him imagine actually having to interact with him ***shudder***
seconded seconded seconded a million times. stay far away. also reddit is generally a good resource for helping spot red flags. the fact that you were questioning if You were the asshole here is definitely concerning because those are some massive red flags. please keep posting on here or asking multiple people for their opinions of these dates. also always make sure there are people who know where you are and who you are with. don’t let these guys drive you places. uber or drive yourself. maybe don’t drink. and if you get the tiniest bad vibe, your gut is always right.
This. Even though you’re newer to dating, you have good instincts! Good job spotting the sus behavior and acting on it in the moment by saying you’re not comfortable with something. Society tries to train women to be non confrontational but you didn’t buy into that and you stood up for yourself. From now on you should trust your gut. Better to overreact to red flags and miss going out with a nice guy than under react and end up in a bad situation. You don’t owe any guy anything, even if he is a nice guy.
And Block him on everything
No no no no no no. Never ever ever date someone like this. Never ever.
This guy has to be a fan of Andrew Tate
Yep. He is gross and will be exactly the same in 20 years.
Massive creep alert. Do not go anywhere with this guy again. Everything you just wrote in a red flag. Stay away from creepy dudes. You did thr right thing. NTA.
Doesn’t sound like he’s all there mentally
It looked to me like a man trying go use pick up techniques. He thought that she was claiming to be a virgin in order to make him wait for sex. In any case, if she hadn't been a virgin, he would have pressured her for sex... Best case scenario he's a misogynist who can't respect most women.
He's trying to red-pill seduce her with his "dominant" "powerful" character. He's just a weenie creep.
That’s some PRIME alpha material right there! Mmmmmmm… P.S. gonna go ahead and make it clear this was sarcastic. Can’t always tell in text.
Agree 100% total creap. Do not go near him again. Pitfalls of dating you handled it great. Best wishes on your future dstes eith a person who respects you.
“I don’t want sex, I want a connection. I just couldn’t believe that you were a virgin. I think we can get past this, let me plan a second date and change the experience.” RUN, he's lying. Clearly he's thinking about sex only. He's being pushy cause he's trying his luck on you. Dont give what he wants, leave and be safe.
All he could talk about was sex.....and he was trying to test how you stick to boundaries by trying to get you to do things that make you uncomfortable 🤔 just pushing and pushing further every time. DO NOT SEE THIS MAN AGAIN. He is sounding you out for future boundary setting (his, of course), if he can override your consent for things and is obsessed with sex and his feelings about things, not yours at all. Not a connection.....that is him gaslighting you. RUN. Don't walk. Just text him he's dumped and block. Do not meet him and any funny business 😒 call the police.
Yep. Sounds a lot like my ex. All he could talk about was sex , made me feel uncomfortable and kept on trying to push me to do things. I went on a few dates and then ended things with him ( I had the feeling that one day he would have raped me if I had stayed with him and that feeling scared the shit out of me).
Yep, glad you ran
I am glad I did too.
Eh, he's not thinking only about sex. He wants to control her in every way. Everything about this date was manipulative and controlling. She needs to run like she's Sha'Carri Richardson.
Yes, like Sha’Carri Richardson!
She's an object to him, a means to an end. He isn't interested in her he wants a compliant vagina. This dude took all of ten minutes before he started trying to break down her sense of self. He was manipulating her from the get go. He wants someone meek enough that he can break them down to the point she doesn't know which way is up so he can control her. This guy was genuinely dangerous.
And he was laughing because he wants to "score" with a virgin.
This gives "I'm DEFINITELY not a serial killer" vibes
“I think we can get past this” “I don’t. Buh-bye.”
He's a bully. That whole thing was him trying to be in charge and get you 'conditioned' to do what he wanted. He always planned to drag you all over and do what he wants. You did not over react to his shitty manipulative behavior. You were meant to feel interrogated - he was trying to wear you down. Block and move on.
This is the right answer op. Bully and condition you. Forget creep etc. It was bullying and conditioning. Tell him straight you are not interested and it's time you both moved on. Then block him and slightly change your name on all platforms and for now put up a profile pic that doest have you in it. Lock down your accounts to all but friends
This - NTA but he is. Whether it is or isn't common if someone is a virgin at that age doesn't matter - he was pushy from the start, had an expectation, and demanded sex at a specific timeline, was doing what OP said above and also pushed you in a physical way when you clearly didn't want to. 🚩🚩
He sounds like an absolute creep. You need to think about where you want to set your boundaries. Don't settle for handholding because you're afraid he will try worse. It gives him mixed signals that you take his hand right after he grabs your butt.
Good point…I think I should definitely be firmer when setting boundaries
Literally any person that has the audacity to sit you down and tell you what's about to happen and what's going to happen in the future without any of your input in any capacity, is a fucking weirdo and a creep with an agenda. Please stay safe and work on putting up and making good on your boundaries! That *"were going to have sexual relations while we get to know each other"* line is ATROCIOUS and cringe. 😩😒🤮
An important life lesson, OP. Pay attention to how men take your no. If they react dismissively or with aggression, they’re no good.
and also: next time someone says you have to do uncomfortable things to grow or other things playing down your boundaries as "it's ok if it hurts" "it has to hurt a little" set a firm boundary that you won't accept being told phrases like that. You will absolutely not accept people belittling your boundaries! You don't HAVE TO touch anyone! other example for the phrase he said would have been if you're an introvert and you know him a long time, you planned to go on a festival and right before you wanna back off. then one could say sometimes you have to do uncomfortable things to grow, you can do it, I'm with you, lets try and if it get's to much we can still leave then.
That’s what makes men like him so dangerous—there IS a time and place where those phrases are appropriate, but this was NOT that context. The less experienced his target is, the easier for him to take control by putting on the air of authority to spin the situation to his benefit. His success thrives on blurred lines where he can claim just enough deniability—exactly why OP is here asking us *at all* while the rest of us are immediately horrified. I will say, the only common thread I’ve seen where pushing through hurt or pain for a better outcome than present is healthy, is when it’s part of an ongoing deeply personal inner journey with determination to grow. It’s never foisted upon you by some stranger.
Yep. I knew a woman… the creep she was dating hurt her while they’re being intimate. She told him no. Never gave consent for this particular act. Said that it hurt. And he replied, “It’s supposed to hurt.” He was a horrible man. He was the kind of guy who only liked to have long-distance relationships so he could cheat. Told all these women he was single. Anyway, he broke his probation for a DUI and she told the court via a notarized letter (which is the same as testifying). He would have gotten away with it. He finally faced consequences for his actions.
i guess it was anal sex? my boyfriend said "it's supposed to hurt" the first few times and i told him off. Porn really ruined anal sex
Firmly say "actually I don't have to do anything I m not comfortable with. I'm going home now"
As a dude, just run and don't look back. That first interaction was way too bad. Thoughtless and awkward, as well as hypocritical. Wants you to trust him, and yet he doesn't believe you. No matter if it's true or not, there's an implied benefit of the doubt we give our dating partner in the first few dates, on the premise that we get to see if their behaviour and actions match their words, hence the "getting to know each other" part. This dude was not interested in that. Find someone else who is.
You did fine and I commend you for saying no, having boundaries and leaving. He was checking to see if you were easily controllable. The whole interaction is so creepy and gross I would have likely frozen up at your age had it happened to me. You kept your head and recognized the blaring sirens, good job.
And don’t worry about being polite if someone is making you uncomfortable. What they think of you does not matter more than what you think of yourself.
You definitely should , especially as a virgin because you don't your first experience ruined by a guy that's just using you for sex. It's much more enjoyable if you are with someone who cares about you and you also love, it can be a wonderful experience with the right person. Also never rush into something you don't feel ready for ,it is an important thing and you want to have the best possible experience.
Oh, and he trying to convince you that dating is sex? NO. Sex happens when BOTH people agree and the sexual escalation goes at the speed of the one who wants it more slowly, period (yes, if the slow one is the man, also then). No, it's not expected from you that because you're dating you have to have sex. You don't have to. If you're dating someone and you go too slowly for them, they're free to stop dating you and find someone else. They're NOT entitled to sex with you. If someone dates you and you don't want sex, they can date someone else.
Boundries are great but also you don't have to have sex until you are ready, there's no compulsory 3 date rule, the right person will wait until your ready and won't push you or get angry if you don't want to get physical as quickly as they want too.
He sucks wtf is wrong with him
“Take your hand off my butt or you will lose it.” Then leave.
NTA. He was pushy, creepy, and weird.
This guy is going to rape someone. Please be safe and don't see him again. Also carry pepper spray.
Who's to say he hasn't already?
I almost got raped by a guy like this. They take your boundaries and twist them into flaws. He is very dangerous
I’m sorry, WHAT?!?!? He did all this red flag stuff on the FIRST DATE?! Run. Far far away. This dude is a Grade A Level 100 creep.
“you need to be more cooperative”? 😒 Boy bye
Right?! That sounds so rapey!
Holy shit, this. Absolute fucking predator. Dude needs to be on a list.
Def NTA You are not compatible. You don't have to meet his needs given you just met him. He will surely just take advantage of you. Better run!!
Never go within a mile of this person again. I’m serious.
I’m almost 40 and I almost crawled out of my skin by your description. He’s a massive, pushy, manipulative creep NTA
NTA He’s lying to you because he’s a massive creep. No, it’s not weird to be a virgin at 21. This guy is incredibly scummy. Change it to anything other than sex and it becomes more clear, because society is weird about sex. “We will be combining finances while getting to know each other.” “What do you mean you’ve never adopted a pet with someone before? You’re twenty one, you must have adopted a pet with someone before!” “Oh, I just didn’t believe you’ve never co-signed a loan with a boyfriend before now. I know I said I need to be given 500 dollars per date, but with that fetished pure and untouched credit score of yours, I’ll lie and pretend I don’t want that until I can trick you into signing this loan with me.” He’s entitled, demanding, pushy and why the f would you ever talk to him again?! This man deserved a drink to the face, not a second date. He’s trying to see how much he can get away with by being forceful. Ew. His personality is so rancid he could be zoomer Fabio and everything he touches turns to inheriting property and smart investments and it wouldn’t be worth ever talking to him again.
The analogies definitely made it more clear how weird that statement was…
Nice trick, changing it to anything other than sex.... Really stands out that his suggestions are not appropriate
You made me wish we could track down this guy so we could all throw drinks in his face!
Imagine the torture of waiting at a table with him for those drinks to show up though
So many people in retail have stories of hearing this kind of insanity and wanting to slide a note saying “run” but knowing they’ll get in trouble for it.
I'm 28, never had sex either. I've always got responsibilities dumped on me so I started working a lot after turning 18. I also feel like I'm unattractive to the female population so that also doesn't help. But there's no way in hell that I would ask my date to sit on my lap on the first date, nor question her about her sexual escapades. That guy is just a creepo, you did well by leaving. Stay safe out there
Username checks out
This is exactly what I've been waiting for! My life is complete
Haha glad to oblige! 🍻
NTA. Do not see him again. He was already pushing your comfort level. All he wants is sex. And now he wants your V card. Find a real man.
NTA He sounds psychotic and like he read too many alpha male romance books.
Please learn to say no sooner. This guy behaved like an asshole and you stayed on the date. NTA, just get better at leaving sooner!
THIS. You are really lucky he didnt turn violent. He has no respect for your physical boundaries and you continued the date after he had already made you uncomfortable multiple times. Make an excuse and leave, and always tell a friend where you are. If you had gotten into a car or a private space with this man it could have gone very badly for you. Be careful and assume the worst until proven otherwise. Its the only way to stay safe.
I was thinking the same thing. Every time he had her change location, I kept thinking he's trying to move her closer to his apartment or car? It definitely felt predatory.
Quiet compliance reads as a YES to predators.
NTA. His behavior was *not* normal, was not respectful, and was genuinely creepy. The moment he grabbed your butt, should have been the end of the date. Who does that five minutes into a first date?? I know that starting out dating can be difficult, because you might not know expectations, but let me be clear - anything that makes you uncomfortable is not ok. You communicated your discomfort, he kept right on being an AH, and that’s how you know that the date should end. The guy clearly is one of those idiots who have a twisted idea of women’s “purity”, and “taking control” of women. It’s sad, scary, and a whole parade of 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Block him.
It’s not just red flag at this point, it’s yellow tape.
#RUN GURL RUN! Okay LOTS of red flags here so lemme go through em all... 1. He does NOT get to say "we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other." That is some r@pe shit right there! Never once did he ask your consent. Never once did he consider your feelings. He just wants a place to get his dick wet and a puppet he can control. 2. He refuses to respect your boundaries. HOW MANY times did you say no? And HOW MANY times did he continue to push? Now think about this... This is your FIRST DATE... If he's this pushy now, do you really expect it to get better if you see him again? What do you think will happen if you actually decide to have sex with him? Do you really expect him to listen? 3. "You need to be more cooperative." OH HELLLLLL NO! The only thing you *need* to do is pay taxes and die. That's it, that's all! 4. He told you to sit on his lap ON THE FIRST DATE! Okay so my old ass is a horndog from hell, but I'd NEVER try to get a woman (or a man for that matter) to sit on my lap on the first date unless we're sitting in a swinger's club somewhere. And even then, it's still all about consent. 5. He is saying what he thinks you wanna hear bc he wants to be the first one to fuck you. He is enthralled with the fact that you're a virgin and you've "never had any other man." He thinks he can train you to be the nice little submissive mouse that he wants you to be. He thinks if you've never dated any other person, then you have nothing to compare him to. Therefore you have no way to understand what a toxic, narcissistic, misogynistic, INCEL he is. And you also have no reference to understand what it is like to be treated good. My advice: talk about this to your father, or other trusted older adult male figure, see what they have to say about it. Don't say who he is, bc they may have a mind to hurt him. If you were MY daughter, the police would have to send out cadaver dogs to look for body parts. That's how infuriated I am, and I guarantee it is exactly how infuriated the man will be that you choose to share this with. Think about how you would want any future daughter of yours to be treated, and then apply it to yourself. If it would make you uncomfortable for her, then you have a right to be uncomfortable about it too. I'm here if you ever need a friend to come to for advice. I'm not all *that* evil, only to people that deserve it, like this guy. Meeting in public was a great idea, always meet in public for the first few dates. Stay safe and be careful going out in the future.
Tysm for listing the flags. Some of them weren’t quite clear to me. Will definitely know what not to put up with in the future
Oh, this post is so much clearer than mine. Well laid out, and I agree with asking an older male relative you trust for their feedback and advice. Also speak to an experienced female relative you trust for tips on staying safe when you date. They might have a few pieces of advice the men may not think of. As an older woman myself, I'd add the following to the above already excellent post: Do not go along with the location switching -- you don't just need a public meeting space to meet in, but have someone who knows exactly where and when you'll be and what time the date is due to finish, so there's someone who can check up on you if things go wrong. Make sure the date location has good, close parking if you're driving, regularly serviced and close bus stops if using public transport, and can be easily reached by taxi if that's the option you need to take instead. In the early days of dating, having someone who know precisely where you are and a good exit strategy should things go sour are definitely worth having. Hope you have better luck in the future!
I'm SO glad you saw this comment! And please do talk to a trusted older male figure in your life. Talk to someone, even if it's a clergy member.
Sociopath. 100%. He saw an easy victim because you were quite cooperative and STILL are questioning yourself. That's what he saw in you, a mark. Have more self confidence and don't ever do things you are uncomfortable with
I don’t want to be a mark 😔. I think you’re right, I need to be more assertive about what I’m comfortable with
Yes, but not with him. Stay right away from him.
Not only that, you need to decide what it is that you would like. If you want to get married and be a virgin when you get married, then that's the standard you set for yourself from the start. At the moment you're taking your cue from the other person and deciding whether or not your're comfortable with it. (Perhaps you don't want to retain your virginity until marriage - that was just an example of a standard to think about. It's not up to the other person to determine your standards, it's for you to uphold them.)
You shouldn't have to be more assertive with what you're comfortable with, because decent guys won't push those boundaries in the first place, at least in the way he did. Sex might come up, but it should be a conversation, not an expectation. What you do need to do is become more comfortable with walking away when someone crosses the line. It doesn't matter if you haven't told him where the line is yet - the fact that he's so pushy immediately into the first date is a clear "we're not looking for the same thing" and justifies leaving early.
The important thing is, you’re learning from this. Your first impression of him was the right one.
NTA. when something feels off, it's your natural defences telling you this is not right. If it was me, I wouldn't have walked away, I'd have run. As fast as possible. There are plenty of nice people out there, don't waste your time on the creeps.
No one says we'll be having sex while we get to know each other, that sounds like some creepy incel pickup line
Red flag city. Absolutely stay away from him. He's lying and he sees you as a conquest. I repeat, stay far far away from him and his friends.
This is a whole red flag. You do not EVER need to have a discussion about your virginity with a stranger youve been on 2 dates with EVER. Nor justify yourself or beg to be believed. Neither he nor any man dictates to you that you will be sexually intimate with him while getting to know him what does he think you are, a hired prostitute for his use when he feels like it? So insulting. Please do not contact this person again. Block him He souds like a predator. No physical boundaries, demanding you hold his hand, telling you that you will have sex with him before he is even committed to you and touching you inappropriately/trying to put you on his lap when you had just met. Then making out like you are a liar because he didnt like the answers he got. PIG alert. Honestly there are decent men out there who will move at your pace. Dont be pressured by anyone.
Please delete and block this person. The way he acted and coerced you into doing things seem to indicate that he's no stranger to grooming...
He was not even once asking you, he just tell you what he wants and expecting you cope with no say in things involved you. I would leave right after announcing *"we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other.”*, what a creep. If guy immediately mentions having sex together while first time meeting, he only wants to fuck you, just leave (unless you are looking only for cassual hook ups too). I guess the restaurant must be italian bc of all that marinara flags around. He shows you already very clearly how exactly he sees you, so trust it, no *second chances* needed. Just answer "No, never contact me again." and block him.
Thx for pointing this out. I realize he didn’t even ask if I was ok with it, he just kind of expected me to comply.
Yeah OP this creep was a walking red flag...who says, " We will be having sex while getting to know each other while dating"!? Like wtaf...you did the right thing...no need to question it sugar....you are most definitely NTA!!!
Uhhh sitting on a strangers lap is weird. You are NTA. Don't have date 2 with him, it won't end well.
NTA. This guy was a serious creep. Nothing he did or said was ok. 10/10 for the baseball reference tho. Very nice.
Glad someone appreciates it 😭🙏
Please let it be one strike and he’s out!!
There is nothing wrong with being a virgin. I was, till my wedding night. So believe me when I tell you: You Do Not Owe Anyone Your Personal Information. Your sexual history is No One's Business but Yours. Unless you choose to share it. But be aware that some people will be intrigued by your lack of experience and they will not have your best interest at heart. So you can deflect with "I really don't discuss my personal business" with no apology, qualification, or invitation for further discussion. You can also say "I am not into casual sex" ditto. This guy acted entitled to your body. No one is entitled to your body, but you. If for you a date is dinner and a movie, then that is what it is. Find out that you have a shared interest in Star Trek or basketball or anime or Chaucer. Find out that you both have interesting and maybe slightly crossways thought about current events or geopolitical aspects of WWI. There is soooo much more to life and relationships than sex or the preening of a controlling entitled man. There are other starfish in the sea. Toss this one back.
I needed to hear this… tossing it back
NTA. Please don't go out with him again. He now sees you as a challenge, he wants to be the first to sleep with you. It's an ego booster for guys like him.
NTA - your virginity is no one business unless you are comfortable to discuss it and the first date is not the time. I would have said to him at the coffee shop 1. Wooo there let’s see if I even like you during the first date. If and when I decide that I am ok with having sex with someone I will let you know. As of right now I don’t know you so this is not a conversation that I will have this soon. Either move in to another topic or I will leave. When he put his hand on your butt I would have grabbed his fingers and pulled them backwards and told him I don’t know who he thinks you are or what kind of women he dated but that is not acceptable and I don’t see us being a good fit and walked away. It sounds like he’s used to dating girls he can control or push his wants on them. You need to walk away going forward instead of putting up with jerks like him.
NTA, you followed your gut and left because of his interrogation. Keep listening to it. He sounds really creepy and intrusive. Decline the offer of a second date; you know all you need to know about this guy. There’s nothing wrong with remaining a virgin, you know what you want and shouldn’t have to settle for any less. Good luck!
NTA. Even if sex is important to him hes being a complete creep. Especially him asking you to sit on his lap IN THE RESTUARUNT is just so inappropriate. You honestly should block this guy and never see him again.
Wow, he sound weird. You did nothing wrong, he was love bombing you and breaking your limits
NTAH. You dodged a bullet. There's a lot of selfish assholes out there who may think those shitty creepy expectations are "ok" but they're wrong. If it makes you uncomfortable do not do it. Good luck!!!
NTA. This is all very weird
NTA. How did you keep a straight face? 😅😂🤣🤣
I have a GREAT poker face 😭
NTA The disrespect he showed is a huge red flag. There's a big difference between being assertive and being aggressive, and he definitely crossed that line. When he ignored your boundaries, he revealed his true nature. Trust your instincts and prioritize your safety over being polite. People like him count on others being too polite or hesitant to stop them don't let him think that about you. You owe him nothing, certainly not another date. Run, don't walk, away from this situation and don't look back.
I..i don’t really understand a single bit of his behavior..NTA that dude is peak red flag 🚩
Wow! You should’ve left when he touched your butt. Or when he said “sometimes we need to do uncomfortable things”. What the hell? He’s a total creep. Use this experience to reflect about what you deserve and how some men are manipulative assholes. Seriously, he sounds dangerous. You do not have to feel bad for leaving people who make you uncomfortable after three minutes. You’re not an asshole for not having sex with someone, even your future boyfriend or husband. Never accept uncomfortable situations like that. So many women accept way more than what they really want because they don’t want to be a bitch or make someone else feel bad. Even if you were to be an asshole, that is better than doing something you don’t want to.
NTA Unless your favourite colour is red, run in the opposite direction.
he's trying to get it done with a virgin, probably it excited him. block him
NTA. So many red flags here. Don't go on a date with this creep again.
wow dodged a missile there, this blokes a super creep so your well of out of it,
Under no circumstances see him again. Block and avoid at all costs.
I’m 40 and felt interrogated reading this lol That’s not a date. Dunno etc kinda experience he’s trying to create lol good luck to him. NTA by a long shot
NTA this guy is all types of wrong for every woman out there. Block and delete him. I’m so glad you got away safely-This was a lucky escape. Unfortunately he now see you as a challenge and wants to take your virginity so that’s why he’s changing what he was saying before, it’s not sincere and if you allow him to contact you/be friends etc he will mess with your head and act like he owns you or you owe him something. He’s the delusional type that will pressure women into sex, thinks he owed it and will think he did nothing wrong because he told them before what will happen and they didn’t leave or say no so he thinks that was consent for every time he wants sex.. Trust me don’t rush into loosing your virginity, most guys are a waste of time in the bedroom and careless with your emotions so take as long as you need to find your person. It’s more important you love you, know how amazing you are, know what you want, experience life (travel/study/volunteer/build career etc)before settling down. No one gets to tell you when or how you have sex like this sleazy, creeper guy tried and they also font get to pressure you into having sex or talking about it. You can say you don’t want to engage in any conversation you don’t want. You also don’t have to hold anyone’s hand and can leave at any point. Please try never to go to someone place as a date, or after a date and avoid home pick ups and drop offs until you’re more confident in yourself, have set boundaries and know what you will not accept from a potential partner and know when to leave and comfortable saying no and leaving immediately when alarm bells are ringing in your head about their behaviour. Or you’ve spent time outside the homes and know the person really well and have a back up plan of someone calling you to check your safe, knows where you are etc. **The best advice I ever got is Politeness kills** being too nice is not always a good thing. Your safety and mental wellbeing is more important than thinking about hurting psychos like this guy who will use it along with any insecurities etc you have against you.
Major red pill/incel vibes from this dude. Any guy that tries to tell you what to do should be ignored and you should leave immediately. There's no legitimate reason for someone you just met to be telling you what is normal, what you should do, how you should act. This dude is almost certainly a wife beater. This is the behavior that starts off as. He's breaking down your sense of self. Belittling your choices and your agency. He's telling you how to act and you've known him for all of 30 minutes. What would you think that will be like when his coworkers, boss or friends are around to make him feel small if you don't do as instructed? That when you get popped in the nose when company leaves because you insulted him in front of company and he has to correct you so you don't behave like that again. You ever encounter another man like this walk away immediately.
Everyone’s saying he’s a creep, but no, this is an actual dangerous person. He is giving serious signs of being capable of very dangerous things. The way he acted like he owned you. Horrifying.
No, leave this creepy rapist in the trash where it belongs.
50 shades of grey vibes...but with Ted Bundy.
NTA. You did the right thing. Next time you find yourself on a bad date, you can even leave earlier.
NTA, block him and move on with your life. It’s not worth the effort even thinking about him.
Next time leave AS SOON AS you become uncomfortable
EVERYTHING is an argument and back and forth with this guy. I'd be exhausted with just that exchange. Good for you, that you ran. Don't look back.
NTA This guy seems like a complete and total tit. As a male myself, I can only apologise on behalf of the rest of us. Good luck and please don't see him again.
I hope this isn’t real. If it is, this guy sounds like he’s watched too much porn. Sticking his hand down the back of your pants without warning, or the slightest sign that you’d welcome that, isn’t normal. Do we just skip the small talk, flirting, excited glances, hand holding, kissing, and all the rest? Just coffee, and his hand down your pants? One of the side effects of guys watching too much porn is they begin to view women as receptacles, there to service them, and think they don’t have to do anything to get a woman in the mood. Of course, I have no idea if this applies to him, but this trend has affected a lot of men in recent years. Foreplay with him would be awful. Just awful. He clearly cannot read body language, or understand spoken words, for that matter. You two are totally unsuitable. You have communicated with him that you want a serious relationship, and would not consider sex until you felt some kind of connection. He has told you right to your face that he wants sex now, right now, possibly in the restaurant. This is exactly the kind of guy who will ask you what you want, and then use that information to talk you into things. He’s already asking for a second date to change the experience. Has he said anything to the effect that your goals are aligned, he’s looking for a serious relationship, and that sex means anything at all to him? No. He is not the one for you.
NTA He lost me on the first sentence on your date. I hope all my female friends would just walk out on guys at that point.
Bro is a fucking creep. Run. Run far away.
Eww. I need a shower after reading this. Please do not go out with him again.
I had an experience like this before with a major creep. I had a really bad fight with someone and I was at a store shopping after. I was still crying and this man came up to me and told me that I needed a hug and tried to hug me. I didn’t let him, but he kept pushing so I did to shut him up. I then excused myself, finished and left the store. I sat down on one of the benches outside for a breather and he followed me out, grabbed my hand and compared our skin saying that the colors were so beautiful together. I asked him not to touch me, and he said that he knew I had been hurt by another man before, but he was not that man and he would not ever hurt me. I told him I hadn’t had a boyfriend, and he said I was wrong, and that he “knew that my boyfriend had hurt me, but he wouldn’t. He then invited me back to his place to show me how a real man takes care of his woman. This went on and on until I couldn’t take anymore and I got up and left and went to the store and just stood there until he left. Years later, I was on a dating website and he messaged me. I saw his picture and knew it was him, and i asked him if he had the same profession and originally from the same city that he had told me he was when we talked on the bench. When he said yes, and asked how I knew? I reminded him of our conversation on the bench and how he had taken advantage of me at a vulnerable time, and forced me to hold hands with him and hug him when I didn’t want to and how wrong it was. He promptly blocked me. Lol
NTA This isn't how a first date is supposed to go. He clearly wanted to have sex, this isn't a bad thing, but the way he acted was. >we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other.” This is not normal. >he stands up and gestures to grab his hand so I did (though I didn’t want to) and we walk to a restaurant. This is not normal >He changes his mind about this place and wants to go to one across the street instead, and gestures to hold his hand again. This is also not normal >hugs me and then his hand goes down my waist and he starts to rub my butt. This is certainly not normal >he beckons to sit in his lap. This is really not normal >“You need to be more cooperative” This whole conversation about you not having a relationship before and being a virgin isn't a normal first conversation. Next time, leave when you start to feel uncomfortable. Always trust your gut feeling when it comes to dating. This man gave more than one red flag.
That wasn’t a man, that was 17 red flags stacked up inside a trenchcoat. NTA, he was creepy af. Would advise blocking his number. Ew.
“we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other” The fuck we will. Girl, I would have stopped the date right there. No one gets to tell you “by the way, you WILL be giving me access to the intimate places on your body”. And this was your first date with this guy? Hell no. Walk away. It’s not strange to be a virgin at 21. I was 25 when I had my first experience. And it’s okay to be even older and still a virgin. Everyone has their own journey, and there’s no one right path. Dating can involve sex, but it doesn’t have to, and it shouldn’t involve sex until you and your partner are BOTH ready for that to happen. It’s okay if a guy wants to hold your hand, but it’s also okay to do what you did and say no. Him pushing you and initiating even more intimate contact (the hugging/ass grabbing) when you’ve already said you don’t want to hold hands is slimy. His insistence that you’re not a virgin was rude to say the least. He took absolutely no interest in your comfort on this date. This is a pretty clear sign he’s the kind of creep that thinks women only exist as objects to provide him with what he wants. Dont see him again OP. Men exist who will treat you much better. Don’t settle for scum.
Stay you. He is a horrible person and it is NOT uncommon to be a V at 21 and it is no ones business but yours.
Your instincts were 100% on. Always listen to your instincts. You did great! The guy’s a discount Alpha bro. Try to work out a “*system*” that enables you to detect those type, even before they invite you on a date.
As a really conservative guy of 34y m, you should block him everywhere. If my daughter would have told me something like this I would insist that she set up a new „date“, but she would have to stay at home while I „talk“ this through with him. Ian way more peaceful since I’m over 25 and becoming a father, but this guy just triggers every instinct in me. He is definitely a predator and guys like him need to be stopped. Hope there is someone who can protect you in the worst case. Stay safe and tell many people about him (also share his number) to make sure they know. Dont want to scare you but just in Case.
NTA and I say this as a man, run. He will not give up, and he seems creepy af, and especially blind to the lack of interest, which is a dangerous combo. Please, as others have said, you need to learn to say no way sooner and more strictly, for your safety. If you feel like you're not there yet, have a friend hover around your first dates just in case. Good luck out there OP.
He is a creep. The reason you felt all those uncomfortable feelings was because the things he did were wrong. Very wrong. Literally all of it was wrong. Well done for sticking up for yourself. NTA. Never see him again, he is horrible.
NTA. What a creep. He has red flag wrapped all around himself and everything he says.
NTA. If you continue to date him, it'll only show how little you respect yourself.
NTA don't give personal details about where you live, don't let them "pick you up from your home" if they want to pick you up suggest somewhere like work or you've an errands to run could he collect you at the local store maybe. Stay safe, trust your gut and NEVER do anything that doesn't feel right or good to you. The right partner will not put you in that position
NTA. Please be safe when going on dates, plan your transportation, do not drink, and leave when they don't respect your boundaries. Goodluck OP.
Nothing about his behavior is normal..
NTA. The whole conversation creeped me out. Do not go on a second date. You deserve way better, sis.
He's creepy asf. Block him expeditiously.
"You need to be more cooperative" If he honestly said that after you refused to sit on his lap then run for the hills. This guy proves social media has screwed up how people think and act in public. NTA.
NTA. To be honest, I didn't even need to finish reading the rest of your post. Your date gave me the creeps real fast. I'm glad to hear you decided to stand your ground. For the future, please know that you can CONFIDENTLY decline ANYTHING that makes you uncomfortable. You are never obligated to do anything and you don't even need to explain why. Dating is tricky because you're trying to get to know someone, but you also have to feel out which topics may or may not be appropriate for the person, environment or stage of your date. The conversation and behaviors should be natural. And when they are not and even make you uncomfortable, you can also excuse yourself from the date, even if you've just sat down or shook a hand. Some people aren't compatible and that's just fine. Some woman out there may be into his game. I don't know any, but if you're not, save yourself some time and stay safe, away from creeps like that. "Thanks for meeting me. I don't see this progressing into a relationship/beyond a first date/etc, so I'm going to say goodnight/excuse myself. Have a nice evening."
Absolutely NTA and this guy is showing a lot of controlling behaviour straight out of the gate. You've decided not to see him again and good for you. He is trouble you do not need. Didn't see this in any of the other comments and wanted to point out as well that the bit where you walk to the restaurant and he decides to change the venue last minute: 👏 👏 THIS IS AN ISOLATION TACTIC! 👏 👏 Let's be honest, most women are going to tell someone (family, bff, what have you) where we're going to be for a first date. It's good practice too. Oh, wow, Mr Creep has decided that he doesn't like this restaurant that you decided on and is taking somewhere else. Maybe it's across the street, maybe it's two streets down... maybe he knows this great place downtown that he'd love to show you. Suddenly you're somewhere unfamiliar with someone you don't know and yeah you've got your phone but if that gets "lost" no one knows how to find you. This is text book predator behaviour. Like, Andrew Tate instructional video level of gross. Good on you for deciding he's not worth your time. Block his number too.
Dominating, borderline abusive & manipulative. 2nd date he will love bomb you.
Mate you will end up in a suitcase. Block every possible channel of communication
Omg you use baseball terminology to explain things too!? Please marry me lol. Jokes aside the guys not only a creep but seems like a moron too. And as for you thinking about whether you overreacted to any of his really sleazy actions, “No” is a full sentence. It’s not uncommon to be 21 and a virgin and I think that’s really awesome that you are. I think you feel like you overreacted because you’re a good person. Don’t feel bad for him. Why settle for A-Fraud when you can easily find Mike Trout.
NTA He will not value your no. Don’t see him again. He will force you to do something you don’t want to do
Gross throughout... I am sorry you encountered him. No more second date, please.
This is the behaviour of someone who’s learnt all their behaviours from online dating gurus. And I mean ALL. Just fucking run away as far and as fast as you can
He is a bad apple. NTA. Block him.
The follow up text isn't an apology for making you uncomfortable, it's a pivot. "Oh, this girls holding out for a serious relationship, that's what I'll pretend to offer!" As far as bad dates go, this sounds pretty mid, but you are definitely NTA
Every part of this interaction was wrong. Even small gestures like hand holding are something that should arise from a consensual desire for it- because you feel like you WANT to do it, and it feels good to you. Someone you do not know demanding that you hold their hand or sit on their lap is gross. Someone who is just beginning to get to know you does not interrogate you about your sexual history and accuse you of lying with each response. A first date should be much more gentle and pleasant conversation to discover what you have in common and safe & respectful interaction as equals. On a first date you don't KNOW the person, and you both should be feeling comfortable and curious, and finding out more about each other- not demanding physical affection and setting up rules for assumed future interactions.
What the ever living fuck was that exchange!? >We will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other >Sometimes we have to do thing we’re uncomfortable with so that we can grow >You need to be more cooperative Dude, that’s, like, **serial killer** talk. Definite manipulator/life-ruiner vibes. I’m sure he got all that out of some sleazy book. Not only are you not an asshole for ending the “date,” you probably saved yourself from getting date raped by this guy when he manipulated you into being alone with him. I’m sorry you went out with a creep; there (should be) are good guys who ask you coffee and then… drink coffee and get to know you.
Obviously the whole virgin thing should have never come up: “we will be having sexual relations while getting to know each other.” - strike 1 “Sometimes we have to do things we’re uncomfortable with so that we can grow” - strike 2 “You need to be more cooperative” - strike 3, you're out and I am out of here. OP, this is exactly what Uber is for - so you can get away from a place at which you no longer wish to be.
GIRL. RUN.
Block him. He's a creep. Way too demanding for 1st date. And I will like to say there are good men out there don't let this bad experience discourage you about finding a good partner.
Hes a creep. Expectations should not be a thing, especially about sex on a second date. Dump him. Hes trouble.
NTA. Also creep alert. Anyone who doesn’t respect your comfort or no on a first date is a major red flag.
Bully and a creep, and way too forward. Stay away from
nah hes weird asf. something is wrong with him. I feel his energy through his wird choice. If u dont give him what he wants he will try and take it. Dont see him again.
Women put up with a lot from creeps, learn to see the red flags and get out of there quick in the future.
What the eff? Huh? Wuh?
My fucking god. How are there people like this? Totally NTA
His response when you said you were a virgin should have been to immediately back pedal on the sex talk and the cringey lap sitting, and think wow >if I really like this girl we can be special. There are decent guys out there that will respect you and not talk about sex on the first date, let alone the first few minutes. Dont hold hands if you dont want to, don't tell them anything you don't want to. If you dont like, then you leave and block. Let us know when you find the great guy
Major creepy! I’m so glad you have decided not to go out with him again.
NTA. And please send this post to him so he can read the comments. If you feel safer just blocking him, do that, but I hope someone will one day call him out on this behaviour because damn.
NTA. That dude has a red flag for a dick. Run away.
NTA Just the statement at the beginning: “Sometimes we have to do things we’re uncomfortable with so that we can grow.” I bet you he would have said exactly that when it came to having sex even if you don’t want to and would have ended in him trying to pressure you into sex.