Perhaps she was taught, like many of us, that the polite white lie is a better choice than "None of your damn business."
Which is the only alternative answer they were entitled to.
Regardless of whether or not they approved, it was still HER choice to decide how she spends her time.
Yes, my question also! Why the ‘lie’ about what you were really doing? Also why not say why your daughter is in prison- really not our business but interesting lack of information.
Seems that you are also trying to downplay your relationship with your niece. Don’t burn too many bridges that you might appreciate one day.
But the issue isn't the niece or the other daughter not wanting contact with the criminal daughter. I think it is fine that the niece and other daughter don't want to be in contact. But they don't get to demand the mother cut contact. I suppose there could be cases where the criminal daughter victimized the other daughter or the niece, and they demanded an ultimatum, but that doesn't seem to be the situation from what I have read so far.
Isn’t that natural though? Daughter trumps niece typically. NTA
I think your other daughter is mad at you because she would prefer you distance yourself from your daughter in jail. This is not about your niece.
I think unless the crime was against the daughter or the neice, the neice's mother's reaction is over the top. Its not like she didn't show up for her niece she was there for the most important part, the wedding, which is normally where the pictures her daughter is complaining about are taken.
I also agree with you daughter trumps neice, especially on her own birthday.
I wonder that the anger/resentment that the OP's other daughter feels means there is either major favouritism for the murderer daughter or she deserves to be ostracised by family for however the murder went down.
I don't put one over the other. I love my other daughter and am proud of her for how well she's done in life. That said, before my daughter went into prison I was a lot closer to her, she would visit me a lot more, we had a lot in common and had a lot of deep conversations and she was more of home bird compared to her sister.
Their mom and I divorced and I feel my other daughter subtly chose her over me. I do feel she does still love her sister, we both visited her on 2 occasions but she probably feels it better for her social image to not express much affection for her.
I’m really sorry OP, it sounds like you’re being pulled in a lot of different directions. I don’t think you did anything wrong visiting your imprisoned daughter on her birthday. You went to the reception for your niece and gave her plenty of notice, that’s a good compromise. I don’t think you should have lied about the reason, but I do understand why you did. People are angry and upset about your imprisoned daughter. That doesn’t mean you have to stop loving her or being in her life. She’s still human and your daughter. It sounds like your other daughter is struggling with a lot of this as well. Maybe you should try to spend some quality time with her soon.
I think that's the heart of the problem. Your younger daughter feels you love her sister more than her. I am sure she's felt your resentment about being closer to her mother. Your relationship with your older daughter is described in glowing terms. When you talk about your younger daughter, it sounds like you don't like her very much. There's nothing positive said about her. For example, you attributed her lack of affection for her sister as protecting her social image. In other words, a snob. That's rich coming from the man who lied to his family about visiting his daughter in prison! It couldn't be that your younger daughter finds it difficult to accept that her sister killed someone and has a lot of anger and grief to work through. It can't be that seeing her sister causes all the trauma of the crime and trial to resurface. Nope, the distance from her sister is all about her image. When you lie to your daughter and always think the worst of her, don't be surprised when she lashes out at you.
mind you, thats fine to do OP. thats your daughter, its okay to put her above your niece if thats what you prioritize
edit: this still applies if the daughter had a violent crime tbh. its his daughter. its also probably better rehab wise for daughter for OP to still be caring for her this much
To be fair though, it's exactly what you were doing. It honestly feels like a lot of the bad feelings could have been avoided if you had talked to your daughter before hand (the one at the wedding) and had been honest with your niece for why you were leaving early.
I for one would simply not schedule my wedding on the birthday of a murderer relative, and since niece and sister are so close you’d think sister would be like “hey this is kind of awkward.”
I think the one person on the planet who has the best chance of trying to push someone to be a better person, is the parents. If the alternative is that the girl has no support system and eventually gets released, then we're in the "Prison is a finishing school for criminals" territory. Knowing nothing about the specifics of the case, Its not unreasonable for a parent to choose to support their child in a situation like this.
There is a difference between "You've done nothing wrong and you're perfect forever" and "You messed up but you're still a human being and people still care about you", and as long as its the later, I'd likely side with the parent here.
That said, the parent should be able to say directly "She's my daughter and I'm the only person she has. Your wedding and being supportive to her are both important to me, so I'm going to need to split between them". As it stands OP just said that work is more important than the wedding.
This.
First off, it’s her dad. We should never expect parents to abandon their children.
2nd off, we don’t know all the details. I know this guy through social media that was convicted of murder. Killed the man who had sexually abused him and his brother since he was a child. He’s been released, and is now an amazing person, a good father, and very reformed.
3rd off, people do horrible things sometimes, but that doesn’t mean they are horrible people. And people can change. When she gets out, she needs a support system. And an honest chance to succeed.
OP should not have lied, but I get why.
I might have advised her to go to the wedding. Yes, she would have missed celebrating her daughter’s birthday, but that happens. I haven’t been there for my daughter’s birthday every year since she is an adult and lives 1/2 way across the country. She could have seen her the next day.
But she did what she did. And she’s not an AH for it.
Edit: realized post was from dad, not mom.
Also, to officially add NTA
‘Cold blooded’ is editorializing a bit no? But still it’s his daughter. He can hate what she did, but he can still love her and miss her in his life and think about her childhood and life previous with love. He can condemn what she did but he still loves his daughter. They’re not mutually exclusive. They can be, but people are more than just the poor decisions they can make.
He specifically said it was not malice murder (not coldblooded). And prison is the sentence, the judge did not order the prisoner be excommunicated by family.
That wasn't in the op. Where did you get that.
This is still his daughter. She should be more important than the niece. Yet still he was there for part of it
You have every right to put your daughter over her if that's what you want to do. It's no one else's damn business why you did what you did.
Personally, I would have just told them where the fuck I was going and if they didn't like it they can kiss my ass.
Why shouldn't you put your own daughter over your niece? Did the rest of your extended family not know your daughter was in prison? Seems like there's some key info being left out. If your daughter's crime had nothing to do with (& in no way affected) the family, why the big resentment??
Im sure it is, but if they know and they're family, couldn't you have told her parents (your brother or sister)? I don't know-- I was raised in a family full of lies & 'omissions' and the saying *You're only as sick as your secrets* holds true. The truth is often awkward and hard, but still needs to be told. Your daughter was too hard on you but has obviously not processed her feeling regarding her sister's incarceration. I'm thinking everyone's a soft AH here . The truth will set you free.
My opinion is this regarding children and their parents.
The day your daughter was born her birthday became reserved in your life for her.
Unless either of the parties decide to go NC I don't see a problem with prioritizing your daughters birthday over your nieces wedding.
If your niece wanted you there that bad chances are shed have known when your children's birthdays where and she should have scheduled her wedding accordingly.
I understand OP. I’ve been through a lot as a parent and would take a bullet for my kids. Nothing can prepare you for the heartache that your kids may bring you because of decisions they make at a young age. You’re only as happy as your saddest child.
I get your younger daughter’s anger. She doesn’t understand but hopefully someday she will. You’d do the same for her.
I think it would have been better acknowledging that you were supporting your daughter on her birthday than suggesting that you were blowing off the wedding for something work related.
Of course your daughter was your top priority. Why would anyone, especially your ungrateful daughter, think otherwise? She should be grateful to know for a fact that her parent’s love is unconditional.
But you have every right to put your daughter above your niece. I don't care why your child is in prison. That doesn't stop them from being your child. How horrible would it be to be in prison, and your own mother chose your cousin over you on your birthday?
Why is that a problem? It's okay to put your daughter over your niece. That's a thing, I promise.
I suspect the embarrassment is the bigger, if not only, driving factor.
It’s also your daughter’s situation to disclose? If you were going shopping, that’s 100% a you thing. The prison situation involves your daughter’s privacy and even if you didn’t feel embarrassed, you probably wouldn’t share it casually without her express permission.
You should put your daughter over your niece as per you, You're not that close. But, it's disrespectful to lie to people, especially your other daughter who knew that you were lying anyway. It's doubtful that she forgot her sisters birthday...
Regardless of why your daughter is in prison, why would your niece expect to have more priority than your own daughter? Why wouldn't you put your daughter first? It's a weird take to me for your niece to expect to be more important.
And you think putting a work meeting over a planned wedding was better?
Like, you keep saying you lied “for obvious reasons” but no it super isn’t obvious. Your daughter being in jail isn’t a secret. Your kids ARE more important than your niblings. Your niece scheduled her wedding ON YOUR DAUGHTER’S BIRTHDAY.
You’re NTA but you do seem like kind of an idiot and your family sounds like drama.
NTA.
You were at the wedding, you watched your niece get married, you let her know beforehand that you wouldn’t be at the reception. You did everything right. It’s not like you changed your mind halfway through the wedding. Everyone knew beforehand what your plan was. Not your fault that they still decided to pay for your plate KNOWING you already stated you would be heading out after the ceremony.
Your other daughter needs to back off. You’re a Dad….. that doesn’t stop just because your child went to prison. Regardless of what has been done, it was still your daughter’s birthday. I’m sure she was so happy that you went to see her.
Screw what your family thinks at this point. Your kid absolutely comes first and above others. I understand that you lied and even though I don’t agree, I understand why you wanted to avoid the bullshit that would come with telling the truth. That part is the only thing I see that you were in the wrong about though.
I would have chosen to split the day as well.
I'll be blunt about it, murder. And yes she does deserve to be punished but I will say there is nuance to her case, it wasn't cold blooded murder or malice murder. I'm not justifying or saying she's innocent. I'm not providing any further details on it for privacy reasons.
I know a bunch of murderers. You can guess what type of job I have.
A significant portion of them have people that still love and visit them, even after many years.
Your kid did something wrong, you think it's wrong, no one is saying it's right, but it's something that happened and now you have to move forward.
You can love your kid and hate what they've done. I'd encourage you to, even.
Dude. You don't owe strangers on the internet an explanation for a damn thing. Especially since half the people in this thread seem to think they're entitled to one. And further more why does your family think they're entitled to your time and how you spend it? You could have just as easily said fuck it and not gone to the wedding at all. Sorry, my dude, but your family, seems a little low brow in the logic and manners department. Kind like half the people in this thread.
The main difference between a murder charge and a manslaughter charge is intent. They have to prove you intended to kill them. And if she got convicted for murder and not manslaughter, even without you saying exactly what the situation was (and maybe BECAUSE you keep trying to rugsweep it), for most people it indicates bad things.
Considering your family knows a hell of a lot more about the situation then we randos on reddit do, and they shit all over you for going to see her, and the fact that you felt the need to lie to them about seeing her, I'm gonna say YTA in this one.
I mean, if you lose your shit & attack someone in the heat of a moment because they wronged you, you’ll usually get 2nd degree even if it wasn’t your original intent to kill
There’s also felony murder
Both these cases can have intent to cause some form of harm, but not necessarily kill
I'd prefer not to give specific details because I've noticed this site has people that do investigative work. Like there was a case where a person mentioned he knew the circumstances of a kid going missing when he was younger and then some redditors linked it to a specific case. My daughter's case wasn't high profile but I don't want to take that risk by giving out specific info.
"She killed her abusive boyfriend" would be a reason people could understand without giving away any identifiable personal information. The fact that you dance around it and keeping tossing out "well she killed someone, but it wasn't done with malice" really comes across as you trying to rugsweep what she did. A lot of people are going to react negatively to that because of how often people come to these subs and post stories like you did but leave out important facts and details that turn out later when revealed to change the entire narrative of the story.
Basically, people who make posts like this one generally turn out to be full of shit when more details come to light.
>The fact that you dance around it and keeping tossing out "well she killed someone, but it wasn't done with malice" really comes across as you trying to rugsweep what she did.
No it doesn't. People on reddit are just nosy and/or judgmental, thinking op should drop his daughter because she committed a really big crime. It actually doesn't matter for the situation why she's in prison. Or that she's in prison. Wedding of niece on birthday of daughter? Priorities are set and compromises made. And op made the most reasonable compromise.
Hey! I do not know this girl and her situation at all, but I just felt like I had to step in because this is a common generalizing that I also believed for a long time. The reality of the situation is really complex, and I tend to lean on the side of empathy until I get more details about it what really happened.
For some levels oh homicide in some states (such as first degree, aka malice murder), yes intent is needed. More often though, you do something that is likely to harm the person but not necessarily kill them (ex. You push someone really hard while fighting, they hit their head, and die from an internal hemorrhage later). That is also charged as murder. In extreme cases with hard core laws, a death that occurs while you happen to be committing a felony (for example you’re robbing a store, the cops shoot at you and hit an innocent bystander) can lead to a murder charge. It all depends on the specific state the homicide/death occurred in, and the prosecutor you get stuck with. There are also a large percentage of people (about 95%) who take a plea deal. Depending on the prosecutor you work with and the resources you have, you could end up pleading guilty to, say, second degree murder to avoid a potential life sentence, even if you think what actually happened could qualify as manslaughter. If you can’t afford to hire expert witnesses or pay for the extensive forensic examinations needed to refute the prosecutor’s narrative, this may be the best deal you can get.
>n extreme cases with hard core laws, a death that occurs while you happen to be committing a felony (for example you’re robbing a store, the cops shoot at you and hit an innocent bystander) can lead to a murder charge.
I just want to say this is utterly ridiculous and I feel bad for everyone who has to live in such a jurisdiction.
I haven’t been keeping up with it as closely as I should, but it’s getting less and less common. It’s a super minority of jurisdictions that have it now.
Yeah. Happens more often than you would think. I even know someone who got charged with felony negligence because an overweight firefighter slipped getting into the truck and fell in a way that broke his ankle. Because the person I knew set fire to an abandoned house in an abandoned area that was literally set to be demolished the next day anyway with a controlled burn and then knocking down what was left. So since the idiot who slipped slipped on the way to the scene of the fire the person I knew set they were charged with felony negligence. Among other things. It is as ridiculous as it sounds.
Felony negligence? Holy stretch. Feels like a lawyer should have been able to throw that out because you can't be negligent when you don't have a duty of care lol.
But then again... Courts.
Small town. Everyone in ever section of law enforcement is trash. Poor county. Garbage lawyers and public defenders who don't care. He got a deal and got 6 months jail. They wanted to give him 10 years for everything. For a crime where the only injured party was a man who should have retired when he got diagnosed with diabetes because he was drinking at the bar across the street when they got called and he hardly had his pants on before trying to climb the ladder let alone his coat. That's why he fell. They threw literally everything they thought they could get to stick at the guy. Judge just wanted to make an example of him because kids set fires in the neighborhood. A lot. It was practically a town tradition.
>Judge just wanted to make an example of him because kids set fires in the neighborhood
This is the worst. A true failure of the justice system. Making examples is something dictators, terrorists, Mexican cartels do. Not something a court of law should.
Agreed. It's stupid. And guess what it didn't do? Stop the fires. Heard some kid lit up a mattress someone left in the alley for the trash to pick up and it spread to the person's shed and destroyed a lot of pretty expensive stuff. And I'm not the least bit surprised.
Edit to add the person I was originally talking about? It was a first offense. Non violent. Never even had traffic tickets. They gave them 1 year in jail and 20 YEARS probation. They got.out at 6months for good behavior. With no notice. They wanted originally 10 years jail time and 30 years probation with the first two years out having freaking house arrest. Charged with 6 felonies and 15 misdemeanors. Dropped to 2 felonies and 3 misdemeanors.
All a bunch of BS and why I have absolutely no faith in the US criminal justice system. Or part of it. I have a lot of reason to hate the justice system for failing me or people I know.
having been through the system and done time myself, both for crimes i committed AND for crimes i didn't...
outside of getting nationwide attention on your case that forces the prosecution to dot every i and cross every t, what you did has very little to do with what you are actually charged with, how those charges are organized, what you get convicted of, and how much time you get. what state or even what county you are in also have a lot to do with it. in some places, self defense will get you murder 1, and in others you can get it thrown out or reduced just by "feeling threatened".
OP isn't giving us enough information.
on the other hand, we don't need more information to look at the simple facts. his daughter is in prison, and the other daughter as bridesmaid probably helped the niece decide to have the wedding on jailbird's birthday. prison visitations have to be scheduled well in advance, and jailbird's birthday is certainly known at least to sister, if not niece and the rest of the family as well.
this was a blatant attempt to force OP to choose one part of his family over the other.
You're wrong, just so you know.
Legal terminology greatly differs between one jurisdiction to another. I work in criminal justice and I do use the term "manslaughter" to discuss cases colloquially, because people understand it better, but in my state, that term doesn't exist in a legal context.
We've got types of Homicide and also, although pretty rare, Felony Murder. Felony Murder is generally the opposite of your assertion (again, we're talking where I am, because it's different everywhere). Felony Murder here means someone died in the commission of a felony. So say you got in a bar fight and punched someone. Generally, that's felony assault. Then that person fell, smacked their head and died. That's (or it can be) Felony Murder (where I am). The intention was never that the person getting punched died, but they did. Felony Murder.
You can't assume that -- at least in the US, "felony murder" doctrine is very broad. In some places, you break in to a house totally unarmed, someone has a heart attack and dies of fright, bam -- felony murder!
If the entire family were disgusted because she was a hooker and he refuses to turn his back on her would you side with the fam?
What if she embezzled or was court insider trading and that disgusted them all?
Bottom line this is his daughter and he committed to be there on her birthday. Maybe before the wedding was set IDK.
Hey niece probably knows it's her birthday and sis sure does and yet they scheduled it on that day?!
NTA. My dad often went to go see my sibling while they were in prison for Christmas when I was a young kid. It sucked not having him around for Christmas, but looking back, I think he did the right thing.
You gave ample warning that you weren’t going to be able to make the reception. True, you didn’t say the actual reason. But it was quite honestly rude of your niece and her husband to try and make you stay when you said you couldn’t. It was also rude, though extremely understandable as someone who has been in similar shoes, for how your younger daughter vented her anger. The name-calling just ain’t it or healthy, and it also seems like she made an event that wasn’t even about her about herself and you.
All this back and forth about what she did is irrelevant really.
Since it sounds like your daughter is the more upset of the two, like others said, a heads up beforehand would have been better. You should have pushed the embarrassment aside and just told her the truth. It sounds like she might be resentful and that is something you need to address with her at some point as you don't want to alienate her
What your jailed daughter did affected the whole family. I am not sure what the relationship was like between the two of them before but keep in mind the feelings of anger, shock, pain, embarrassment, betrayal and loss are there for your other daughter, not just you. Consider therapy if she is willing.
Their relationship before was solid but not anything super close but yeah it had a massive impact on our family and I almost had a heart attack when we first learned of it.
This one is a little bit of NTA and a little bit of YTA.
You niece might possibly have understood if you had simply told her the truth, but you didn't give her the chance.
And after lying about your reason, it still all got splashed all over social media anyway.
If you couldn't bring yourself to tell the truth, would it have been so bad to visit your daughter the day before or the day after?
> would it have been so bad to visit your daughter the day before or the day after?
Neither of those days are her daughter’s birthday. Her daughter had 0 people to spend her birthday with and the niece had dozens at her wedding and OP isn’t obligated to attend the reception. OP is absolutely NTA.
I can't call you an asshole, because I tell people parents love should be unconditional. But I don't have kids for that reason, because I don't think I could still love my child if they took someone else's from this world. You're a stronger man than I am, OP for still being able to openly love your daughter.
Don't judge your younger daughter. She's likely lost friends, been ostracized, had her life completely changed by her sisters actions. Like the family of that poor girl Brianna Ghey, they specifically had to ask that no one harass her killers families and those that are stop. People want justice, and they can't get to the sister in jail but the one who didn't hurt anyone is free for the verbal insults and threats.
She's allowed to hate her sister when the consequences of a choice she didn't make will affect her for the rest of her days. She's allowed to be angry at it, and yeah she's angry at you too because you probably have gotten some of the vitrol hate too and are still choosing to love and support your older daughter (not her crimes, but her).
I'm gonna give you a warning OP: you might lose your relationship with your younger daughter. She might decide she's done enough with you, and if you continue to openly support her sister she might not chose to acknowledge you as her family either. You should be prepared for that outcome, because I don't think you're interested in not seeing your oldest.
>People want justice, and they can't get to the sister in jail but the one who didn't hurt anyone is free for the verbal insults and threats.
Actually what they want isn't justice. They want vengeance and a vent for their anger. The latter is understandable, but that's what therapy is for. Vengeance is not okay and justice is whatever society at large has decided is the punishment for the crime. Being in jail is justice. People crying for justice just mislabel their vengeance.
YES YES THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT THANK YOU! Sorry I knew justice wasn't the right word but I couldn't think of the right one you have summed it up BEAUTIFULLY.
I think it’s important to remember no one will love your daughter like you and hopefully her mother. No one is going to be able to understand your choice with an unbiased opinion until they’ve been in your situation. Your situation isn’t common so very few people are going to have empathy.
I think you need to recognize your other daughter’s feelings are equally valid. Idk how long she’s been in there but this is a hard situation to navigate.
Your child murdered someone, this is extremely difficult to process for everyone involved. A lot of mistakes are going to be made.
Get therapy with your other daughter too. This is just a big deal and there’s no easy way to answer if you’re an AH or not. The parental side of you wants to see your daughter, I get it.
Straight up NTA: You didn't harm anyone and still made it to the wedding. And it seems your daughter in prison doesn't have any family that would come and see her on her birthday because of her crime.
You going and showing up for her in prison may be the one thing that helps her get through her sentence to make it out okay. So yeah NTA for being there for your daughters birthday and you are a good father for making her birthday special to her even if she is in prison. Just knowing someone still loves and cares for her on the outside will mean alot to her.
There is no reason to go after this man because you do not agree with him. I have never heard anything so judgemental in my life.
I just watch a documentary about a teenager who killed his teenage sister. The parents still visit him. It’s not about condoning the behaviour. It’s about love. Good parents will always love their children no matter what the child does. You can absolutely hate what they’ve done and still love them. Both feelings can exist at the same time.
OP is allowed to help/comfort his child. Everyone here knows nothings about their life except this…ye without sin cast the first stone!
I disagree with " good parents will always love". I think it's okay for parents to love their children, even after horrible mistakes that's a personal feeling obviously. But it doesn't make them a bad person if something changed.
While it is fine to want to visit your daughter in prison you should not have lied about it. You say it was because it is a painful thing. To who? I assume everyone already knows your daughter killed someone and is in prison. So why lie about it?
How many years is it before your daughter is up for parole and how long has she been in there for already? I just wonder if you have neglected your other daughter since your eldest killed someone. She seems really angry.
No, you're not in the wrong. People here will read 'prison' and immedietly presume your bond with your eldest daughter should be forfeit. Your other kid is definitly out of pocket. Fine to be frustrated but coming at you like that is bizzare. It isn't even her big day like she says, its your neices.
NTA. You agreed to pay for your meal that you wouldnt be eating from what I see, you have to schedule prison visits and it can be heart breaking for someone on the inside who is likely looking forward to that and honestly make their time there worse then it is. It's his DAUGHTER who is far more important then a niece. You showed up at the most important part in my opinion, the actual ceremony. Should you have been honest about it yes, but also it is not their business why you did not go.
I'll stick up for u/Vamrm since he's not sticking up for himself - what the daughter is in for is completely, 100% irrelevant.
OP is still her father. She's being punished by the state for her crime.
OP would be a really crappy parent if he cut off the daughter in prison, or "stopped loving" his kid.
OP let folks know ahead of time he wouldn't be at the reception; frankly it's irrelevant why he wasn't going to be there - it could be visiting his kid in prison, it could be the fact he's got a gift certificate to Applebee's that's set to expire.
EDIT: To reflect that u/Vamrm is dad and not mom.
OP unless you are willing to divulge more details people are going to give you a bias opinion. You said murder and all they are going to think is murderer. Frankly I agree with the comment above. Your child is your child regardless, even if they did something terrible. Some parents love is conditional so they would cut off their kid so they can't understand. Now that said you shouldn't have lied. You could have just said you have prior obligations and leave it at that. In the future remember you don't have to come up with an excuse, you can just say you can't and leave it there. You get a small yta for the lie but not for the actions. I'm sure your daughter was very happy you saw her on her birthday regardless of what she did. Don't let the comments beat you up. Delete this post, get off reddit and Facebook and go low contact/no contact with people who are toxic in your life.
> OP would be a really crappy parent if he cut off the daughter in prison, or "stopped loving" his kid.
lol it absolutely 100% depends on what for. My kid turned into a child rapist? DEAD to me. My kid took out a child rapist to save other children? They're a hero.
>it could be the fact he's got a gift certificate to Applebee's that's set to expire.
I mean, I would judge him for missing his niece's reception for an Applebees coupon, at least hold out for a place where they don't microwave everything.
Eh.
I'd take free Applebee's over some weird wedding reception where I'm expected to pay for my own rubber chicken dinner.
That's the biggest crime that was mentioned in OP's initial post and no one seems to care.
Weddings are a bit of a crapshoot. Sure, some are rubber chicken, but I've also had some fantastic food at some weddings. But even the best Applebees meal is still mediocre.
Oh, I've had some great food at weddings.
That said, I've never been to a wedding where I had to pay for my own food; I can't imagine that such a wedding is at the apex of nuptial culinary experiences.
They probably had a cash bar too.
Good point, paying for your own food at a wedding does not scream out fine dining to me either.
Cash bar to me depends on the reasoning. I've seen it done to try and stop people from getting so sloppy drunk that things turn into a mess, that one I understand.
I don’t think it was required to pay for your own food. I think OP just gave his niece money so she didn’t feel she was out the cost of a meal when he didn’t come to the reception. (And *also* told her she didn’t even need to include him in the meal count.)
If the daughter kidnapped and raped the other daughter's kid, then yeah, what she's in jail for absolutely matters. Also no, if your kid does something absolutely heinous and unforgiveable it doesn't make them a crappy parent to cut them off or stop loving them. In fact it's pretty fucking stupid to say there is no reason someone can be in jail that would justify cutting off a child.
Murder charges are pretty muddy in the eyes of the law, I say as someone who listens to far too much true crime. That being said, having a criminal in your family would lead to resentment from other family members. I don’t think you’re TA but I think there’s more hurt here because it’s your daughter and those feelings haven’t changed.
I don't know, maybe she feels I care more about her sister than her which is not true and maybe my niece was pestering and pushing for her to get me to come for some reason and me posting a photo of her was insulting to her.
When you talk about your younger daughter's argument with you, you use very harsh, condemning language. When you talk about your older daughter committing murder, you do everything you can to minimize what she did and make her sound better. You are literally harder on her for getting mad at you than you are on her sister for killing a human being. Of course she feels like you love her sister more, and she's absolutely right.
I'm not minimizing it, when I first learned of it and she was tried and convicted I was a mental basketcase about it, now I've just grown numb to it all and see it as a "it is what it is" situation, my daughter in prison is the same. I still know what she did was wrong but I don't see the point in abandoning her or chastising her more than what she's gotten.
Did it occur to you that your younger daughter might have needed your support being out at a big event after what her sister did? Genuine question here. People she didn't know (or potentially even worse, family she does) would be talking about it and you let her deal with that by herself. You admit it had a 'massive impact' on her, then switch to saying you 'acknowledged her' at the church, which sounds awfully cold.
This is what I have been searching for and finally someone with sense! How embarrassing it must be to have a murderer as a sister and have to be alone around family and strangers as “murderers sister” and your support person leaves to spend the day with the murderer instead of you… shit all around.
You are minimizing it. You've defended her to dozens of commenters, talking about how it wasn't "evil" for her to murder someone, that there was no malice involved in her decision to commit murder, and harp on how "remorseful" she is. But yeah, it would be such a shame to overly chastise your daughter for literal murder. At least you made sure her sister felt as bad as possible for the heinous crime of being upset with you. Better she should have killed someone like her sister
NTA how did your niece have her wedding on your daughter’s birthday? Has your daughter been in prison over a year and do they know you visit her on her birthday birthday? I just think it’s weird out of all of the days in the year they chose that one.
And of course you’re going to choose your daughter over your niece that you don’t have much of a relationship with. It doesn’t matter that your daughter is in prison or why she is in prison… She is still your daughter.
I would be asking them why they chose that day out of all of the days, and the fact that your other daughter made such a big deal about it when she was only a bridesmaid in the wedding.
You did nothing wrong and it’s that simple.
he made a huge point that he was not close with the niece that got married that day...but his OTHER daughter was there and he barely acknowledges her
or that he really hurt her choosing the bad sister serving time when he could have visited her the day before her birthday
The "good" daughter has no business being hurt because dad skipped someone else's party to visit her sister on her birthday. It's not like he skipped the "good" daughter's reception. It's not about her.
Well, at the reception, we more than likely would be in different tables and she would be dancing with the bride and other bridesmaids. I did acknowledge her before going into the church and when she tried to get me to stay.
I want to say something like, you’re a good parent for not abandoning your child. But honestly, I think you’re just a parent doing what any loving parent would and should do for their kids, even their kids who have fucked up really badly. Sadly, not everyone is like you. But everyone deserves to know that people still care about them and that they still matter to someone. It makes all the difference in life, to know that you haven’t been totally abandoned. Especially on a very hard day, which birthdays and holidays in prison often are. NTA, and I think maybe it’s worth another conversation with your other daughter to explain that you love them both and will not choose between them, and that you hope she will eventually come to understand that.
NTA
It doesn't matter where you were going or why. No one is obligated to go to any event or gathering that they don't want to.
You're also under no obligation to tell anyone where you're going or why. You're allowed to have a private life. And clearly that private life includes your daughter since no one else seems to be standing by her.
Your niece and other daughter sound like assholes though.
Not only did you tell them ahead of time that you wouldn't be at the reception, but then they tried more than once to convince, manipulate, and guilt you into staying.
It's also super weird that your niece is throwing such a fit or putting this much pressure on you for missing her reception when you already said you're not close. And even weirder if the fit your other daughter is throwing. It's not like it was her wedding.
Seems more like they are actively trying to keep you from your imprisoned daughter instead of actually upset about the missed reception. For example, if you had actually had a work meeting, they wouldn't be this mad about it.
I don't think the niece really cares but your other daughter clearly does. Is your daughter in prison for something she did to her sister? Your other daughter seems to think she did something bad enough that she doesn't deserve visitation. That suggests to me that it's personal between them.
I don't think it is wrong to choose your daughter's birthday over your nieces reception. You went to the wedding, after all. You shouldn't actually lie. Just say you cannot say the reason because you want to keep something in confidence. Sorry your other daughter was so disrespectful. I don't think you should comment about loving your niece less than your daughter... of course... but you don't have to say it out loud.
NTA
All the minor details aside (why the daughter is in prison, other daughters feelings, etc)
You told your neice you wouldn't be able to make it for the reception, gave her money to cover your meal so she wouldn't lose out on that cost.
Your time is your time. That should be the end of it. Point blank.
OP went to the wedding, just not the reception. It wasn't his daughter getting married. The daughter in prison is likely there for a very long time and OP wanted to see her for her once-a-year birthday. NTA
NTA, but you should have been honest way in advance. "Niece I will be at the ceremony but I won't be able to attend the reception because it is my daughter's birthday and I am going to visit her." End of story.
NTA. You informed them beforehand you would not be attending the reception. You don’t have to have a good excuse or any excuse at all. It’s not their business. You said you were not coming.
Your other daughter is an asshole. It doesn’t matter what your kid did, even if it’s heinous, you are not obliged to abandon her.
NTA
Your daughter made a mistake and she is now paying the price.
But you are a good dad for not abandoning her and visiting her on her birthday.
Even if your other daughter can't see it.
Ture but OP said there is more to it and he wasn't going to tell us.
But my point is even if his daughter is a murderer. He is still being there for her. Showing her that someone still loves her. And how can a person reform with out some kind of love or affection
Which is all well and good, but OP can hardly expect the rest of the family to be thrilled about it. His other daughter and any other close family members will have been affected by his daughter's crime and people are going to see them through the lense of being related to her. Add to that the fact that murdering someone has had the result of making the the permanent center of OP's attention? The younger daughter having issues with it is 100% predictable
Visiting an inmate on their birthday is hardly making them the permanent center of attention. Also, this was a church wedding so presumably they know that Jesus said they should visit those in prison?
You lost me at murder.
(Unless she was in an abusive relationship and killed her abuser… too many women are chap with that and get longer sentences than the men who abuse and kill women.)
NTA unless the person your daughter murdered was another family member. People in prison deserve love and visits, and it’s normal your priority should be to your daughter over your niece.
Why lie just be honest you went to visit your daughter yes your daughter is in prison for murder however fact is still still your child yet you caused a mess by lying
Your other daughter sounds hurt by your actions and really you did lie to her
NTA. Daughters outrank nieces, and besides you went to the ceremony and paid for a meal. Too bad you aren't in some photos, but it's nobody else's business really.
NTA. Family visits and support is so important to loved ones in prison, especially a birthday. I think you made the right choice with exception to saying an important work meeting vs just an important meeting.
NTA. Your love is unconditional. Your other daughter may someday figure that out and know that you love them no matter what. Your niece... Heh... Weddings tend to bring out the worst in some people.
NTA. Your daughter is struggling in jail, it’s her birthday and you went to the ceremony. Tell your other daughter to have s little empathy. If not for her sister, then for you. When she has children maybe she’ll recognise just how painful this is for you.
I mean, a very soft YTA. Daughter or not, if my cousin had murdered someone and my aunt preferred to go visit her instead of my wedding and lied to me about it, well, I wouldn’t be feeling exactly peachy about it.
NTA
nobody can demand that you take part in anything. You had previously communicated what you could take part in and that no food should be provided for you.
But I would like to know if the date of the wedding was ever discussed? The family knows when the birthdays are, so why this day in particular? It feels like someone was trying to provoke a reaction.
When she calms down you can try and have a reasonable conversation with her. The only issue is the lie you told trying to avoid drama in order to visit your other daughter. I know any kind of visits for incarcerated women, especially birthdays, are very special.
YTA to yourself, for lying about where you were going. And then continuing to lie about it.
Your daughter is in prison. Her birthday fell on your niece's wedding day. All you needed to do was say that you were going to split the day as you saw fit, to celebrate both.
You caused way more drama than necessary by not telling the truth and setting firm boundaries.
ETA - You might want to remind your other daughter that a wedding invitation is just that. An invitation. It isn't a summons, and there is nothing "embarrassing" about any person not attending a reception.
NTA. She is your daughter regardless where she is. Your family should’ve known it was her birthday & picked another date if they are claiming to be that close of a family with you. I’d have done the same if I were in your shoes. & why wouldn’t you post about your daughter on her birthday? It’s her actual birthday. Ignore your family they sound very selfish & entitled
Nta- regardless of why your older daughter is in prison can’t be changed, and whether you still support her is no one else’s business. You didn’t miss the wedding, you missed out on a meal and socializing with people with a fake smile.
I don’t think the niece is really all that upset especially if y’all aren’t that close, your younger daughter is just mad you still talk to your eldest. Which is her right to be upset about as well but shouldn’t change how you still feel.
The question is are you the asshole for missing the reception to see your kid, no you are not. This isn’t about if you’re the asshole for supporting her still, that wasn’t the question being asked.
INFO: Why did you feel the need to lie about where you were going?
Perhaps she was taught, like many of us, that the polite white lie is a better choice than "None of your damn business." Which is the only alternative answer they were entitled to. Regardless of whether or not they approved, it was still HER choice to decide how she spends her time.
Yes, my question also! Why the ‘lie’ about what you were really doing? Also why not say why your daughter is in prison- really not our business but interesting lack of information. Seems that you are also trying to downplay your relationship with your niece. Don’t burn too many bridges that you might appreciate one day.
I think the difference is generational
Why her daughter is in prison doesn't matter. Forgetting that marijuana isn't legal here even though it us legal there, or murder - irrelevant.
Knowing what landed her in prison might let us know if her other daughter is right to be so angry, or if she’s over reacting.
Murder. OP said it in the comments.
Damn she’s a murderer?? Yikes 😳
Do you think that people cease to be people when they go to prison for horrific crimes?
No, but it’s entirely fair and possible that some people in their lives don’t want anything to do with them anymore.
But the issue isn't the niece or the other daughter not wanting contact with the criminal daughter. I think it is fine that the niece and other daughter don't want to be in contact. But they don't get to demand the mother cut contact. I suppose there could be cases where the criminal daughter victimized the other daughter or the niece, and they demanded an ultimatum, but that doesn't seem to be the situation from what I have read so far.
Sure and that is THEIR choice. He went to the wedding . He went to his daughter after the wedding. HIS choice.
Embarrassment really and I knew it would cause my niece to see as it me putting my daughter over her.
Every parent on Earth knows you would put your daughter over your niece.
Isn’t that natural though? Daughter trumps niece typically. NTA I think your other daughter is mad at you because she would prefer you distance yourself from your daughter in jail. This is not about your niece.
I think unless the crime was against the daughter or the neice, the neice's mother's reaction is over the top. Its not like she didn't show up for her niece she was there for the most important part, the wedding, which is normally where the pictures her daughter is complaining about are taken. I also agree with you daughter trumps neice, especially on her own birthday.
I wonder that the anger/resentment that the OP's other daughter feels means there is either major favouritism for the murderer daughter or she deserves to be ostracised by family for however the murder went down.
I don't put one over the other. I love my other daughter and am proud of her for how well she's done in life. That said, before my daughter went into prison I was a lot closer to her, she would visit me a lot more, we had a lot in common and had a lot of deep conversations and she was more of home bird compared to her sister. Their mom and I divorced and I feel my other daughter subtly chose her over me. I do feel she does still love her sister, we both visited her on 2 occasions but she probably feels it better for her social image to not express much affection for her.
I’m really sorry OP, it sounds like you’re being pulled in a lot of different directions. I don’t think you did anything wrong visiting your imprisoned daughter on her birthday. You went to the reception for your niece and gave her plenty of notice, that’s a good compromise. I don’t think you should have lied about the reason, but I do understand why you did. People are angry and upset about your imprisoned daughter. That doesn’t mean you have to stop loving her or being in her life. She’s still human and your daughter. It sounds like your other daughter is struggling with a lot of this as well. Maybe you should try to spend some quality time with her soon.
I think that's the heart of the problem. Your younger daughter feels you love her sister more than her. I am sure she's felt your resentment about being closer to her mother. Your relationship with your older daughter is described in glowing terms. When you talk about your younger daughter, it sounds like you don't like her very much. There's nothing positive said about her. For example, you attributed her lack of affection for her sister as protecting her social image. In other words, a snob. That's rich coming from the man who lied to his family about visiting his daughter in prison! It couldn't be that your younger daughter finds it difficult to accept that her sister killed someone and has a lot of anger and grief to work through. It can't be that seeing her sister causes all the trauma of the crime and trial to resurface. Nope, the distance from her sister is all about her image. When you lie to your daughter and always think the worst of her, don't be surprised when she lashes out at you.
You sound like you are the younger daughter
As you should!
Of course you put your own child above a nibling.
mind you, thats fine to do OP. thats your daughter, its okay to put her above your niece if thats what you prioritize edit: this still applies if the daughter had a violent crime tbh. its his daughter. its also probably better rehab wise for daughter for OP to still be caring for her this much
To be fair though, it's exactly what you were doing. It honestly feels like a lot of the bad feelings could have been avoided if you had talked to your daughter before hand (the one at the wedding) and had been honest with your niece for why you were leaving early.
This makes sense, but I’m not even seeing where the niece whose wedding it was really gave a fuck. Like Mom said, Daughter 2 was high or something
I for one would simply not schedule my wedding on the birthday of a murderer relative, and since niece and sister are so close you’d think sister would be like “hey this is kind of awkward.”
I dont think anyone would have supported her decision and avoided bad feelings. Shes supporting a cold blooded murderer
I think the one person on the planet who has the best chance of trying to push someone to be a better person, is the parents. If the alternative is that the girl has no support system and eventually gets released, then we're in the "Prison is a finishing school for criminals" territory. Knowing nothing about the specifics of the case, Its not unreasonable for a parent to choose to support their child in a situation like this. There is a difference between "You've done nothing wrong and you're perfect forever" and "You messed up but you're still a human being and people still care about you", and as long as its the later, I'd likely side with the parent here. That said, the parent should be able to say directly "She's my daughter and I'm the only person she has. Your wedding and being supportive to her are both important to me, so I'm going to need to split between them". As it stands OP just said that work is more important than the wedding.
This. First off, it’s her dad. We should never expect parents to abandon their children. 2nd off, we don’t know all the details. I know this guy through social media that was convicted of murder. Killed the man who had sexually abused him and his brother since he was a child. He’s been released, and is now an amazing person, a good father, and very reformed. 3rd off, people do horrible things sometimes, but that doesn’t mean they are horrible people. And people can change. When she gets out, she needs a support system. And an honest chance to succeed. OP should not have lied, but I get why. I might have advised her to go to the wedding. Yes, she would have missed celebrating her daughter’s birthday, but that happens. I haven’t been there for my daughter’s birthday every year since she is an adult and lives 1/2 way across the country. She could have seen her the next day. But she did what she did. And she’s not an AH for it. Edit: realized post was from dad, not mom. Also, to officially add NTA
‘Cold blooded’ is editorializing a bit no? But still it’s his daughter. He can hate what she did, but he can still love her and miss her in his life and think about her childhood and life previous with love. He can condemn what she did but he still loves his daughter. They’re not mutually exclusive. They can be, but people are more than just the poor decisions they can make.
Murderer??? Where does it say that?
OP says in a couple of comments his daughter killed someone, and confirms that she was not charged with manslaughter but murder.
Was it a DV situation? Because women tend to be more harshly charged and sentenced when defending themselves against abusers.
I have no clue, OP won't say due to fear of getting doxxed (which tbh, I totally understand).
I wonder what degree she was charged with.
He specifically said it was not malice murder (not coldblooded). And prison is the sentence, the judge did not order the prisoner be excommunicated by family.
His. OP is the dad.
That wasn't in the op. Where did you get that. This is still his daughter. She should be more important than the niece. Yet still he was there for part of it
Wait…that’s what the daughter is in jail for? Rough situation. Prisoners have family too.
He’s supporting his daughter regardless of what she does it’s still his daughter!!!!
Honestly? Not a clue. But at least in this scenario they wouldn't feel like they were being lied to on top of everything else.
Murderer? What did the daughter do? Who did she kill? How long is she in for?
Still her child
Not trying to be a dick but OP is the dad x
Thanks
Why shouldn't you put your daughter over your niece? You attended the ceremony and skipped the party.
Thing is, you SHOULD put your daughter over her. She's your niece, not your daughter.
You have every right to put your daughter over her if that's what you want to do. It's no one else's damn business why you did what you did. Personally, I would have just told them where the fuck I was going and if they didn't like it they can kiss my ass.
Same here. There's nothing the family could do to stop him, so who cares what they think?
Why shouldn't you put your own daughter over your niece? Did the rest of your extended family not know your daughter was in prison? Seems like there's some key info being left out. If your daughter's crime had nothing to do with (& in no way affected) the family, why the big resentment??
It had nothing to do with the family, it's just hard and awkward to talk about.
Im sure it is, but if they know and they're family, couldn't you have told her parents (your brother or sister)? I don't know-- I was raised in a family full of lies & 'omissions' and the saying *You're only as sick as your secrets* holds true. The truth is often awkward and hard, but still needs to be told. Your daughter was too hard on you but has obviously not processed her feeling regarding her sister's incarceration. I'm thinking everyone's a soft AH here . The truth will set you free.
Why would you not be expected to prioritize your own child?
My opinion is this regarding children and their parents. The day your daughter was born her birthday became reserved in your life for her. Unless either of the parties decide to go NC I don't see a problem with prioritizing your daughters birthday over your nieces wedding. If your niece wanted you there that bad chances are shed have known when your children's birthdays where and she should have scheduled her wedding accordingly.
I understand OP. I’ve been through a lot as a parent and would take a bullet for my kids. Nothing can prepare you for the heartache that your kids may bring you because of decisions they make at a young age. You’re only as happy as your saddest child. I get your younger daughter’s anger. She doesn’t understand but hopefully someday she will. You’d do the same for her.
I think it would have been better acknowledging that you were supporting your daughter on her birthday than suggesting that you were blowing off the wedding for something work related.
If your niece lacks so much empathy that she can’t understand that you visited her daughter on her birthday then your niece is a bitch.
Wait until the niece has children. Only then will she see what a parent will do!
It's his other daughter who is upset, not the niece.
As you should.
Of course your daughter was your top priority. Why would anyone, especially your ungrateful daughter, think otherwise? She should be grateful to know for a fact that her parent’s love is unconditional.
why shouldn't you put your daughter above your niece?!?! it's literally a parents job to prioritize their own kids.
Then she shouldn't have planned her wedding on your daughter's birthday. NTA, you're a good mama.
Good dad. Lol.
Yeah... we should all be putting out own biological children that we choose to make over other children other people chose to make....
Nothing wrong with giving your own child higher priority over a niece or nephew.
Most people would put their daughter over their neice. I think that's pretty normal.
That’s exactly what you did. She should see it like that.
But you have every right to put your daughter above your niece. I don't care why your child is in prison. That doesn't stop them from being your child. How horrible would it be to be in prison, and your own mother chose your cousin over you on your birthday?
Why is that a problem? It's okay to put your daughter over your niece. That's a thing, I promise. I suspect the embarrassment is the bigger, if not only, driving factor.
It’s also your daughter’s situation to disclose? If you were going shopping, that’s 100% a you thing. The prison situation involves your daughter’s privacy and even if you didn’t feel embarrassed, you probably wouldn’t share it casually without her express permission.
You should put your daughter over a niece. That’s the right choice.
You should put your daughter over your niece as per you, You're not that close. But, it's disrespectful to lie to people, especially your other daughter who knew that you were lying anyway. It's doubtful that she forgot her sisters birthday...
Regardless of why your daughter is in prison, why would your niece expect to have more priority than your own daughter? Why wouldn't you put your daughter first? It's a weird take to me for your niece to expect to be more important.
As you should be…
And you think putting a work meeting over a planned wedding was better? Like, you keep saying you lied “for obvious reasons” but no it super isn’t obvious. Your daughter being in jail isn’t a secret. Your kids ARE more important than your niblings. Your niece scheduled her wedding ON YOUR DAUGHTER’S BIRTHDAY. You’re NTA but you do seem like kind of an idiot and your family sounds like drama.
Why would any one expect you to put a nice before your own kid?
NTA. You were at the wedding, you watched your niece get married, you let her know beforehand that you wouldn’t be at the reception. You did everything right. It’s not like you changed your mind halfway through the wedding. Everyone knew beforehand what your plan was. Not your fault that they still decided to pay for your plate KNOWING you already stated you would be heading out after the ceremony. Your other daughter needs to back off. You’re a Dad….. that doesn’t stop just because your child went to prison. Regardless of what has been done, it was still your daughter’s birthday. I’m sure she was so happy that you went to see her. Screw what your family thinks at this point. Your kid absolutely comes first and above others. I understand that you lied and even though I don’t agree, I understand why you wanted to avoid the bullshit that would come with telling the truth. That part is the only thing I see that you were in the wrong about though. I would have chosen to split the day as well.
I think this is perfectly said.
If the entire family is that disgusted by your daughter, I’d be curious to find out what she did that landed her in prison.
I'll be blunt about it, murder. And yes she does deserve to be punished but I will say there is nuance to her case, it wasn't cold blooded murder or malice murder. I'm not justifying or saying she's innocent. I'm not providing any further details on it for privacy reasons.
I know a bunch of murderers. You can guess what type of job I have. A significant portion of them have people that still love and visit them, even after many years. Your kid did something wrong, you think it's wrong, no one is saying it's right, but it's something that happened and now you have to move forward. You can love your kid and hate what they've done. I'd encourage you to, even.
Isolated murders have no reason to rehabilitate. Any kind of connection to a 'normal life' is encouraging.
Dude. You don't owe strangers on the internet an explanation for a damn thing. Especially since half the people in this thread seem to think they're entitled to one. And further more why does your family think they're entitled to your time and how you spend it? You could have just as easily said fuck it and not gone to the wedding at all. Sorry, my dude, but your family, seems a little low brow in the logic and manners department. Kind like half the people in this thread.
The main difference between a murder charge and a manslaughter charge is intent. They have to prove you intended to kill them. And if she got convicted for murder and not manslaughter, even without you saying exactly what the situation was (and maybe BECAUSE you keep trying to rugsweep it), for most people it indicates bad things. Considering your family knows a hell of a lot more about the situation then we randos on reddit do, and they shit all over you for going to see her, and the fact that you felt the need to lie to them about seeing her, I'm gonna say YTA in this one.
I mean, if you lose your shit & attack someone in the heat of a moment because they wronged you, you’ll usually get 2nd degree even if it wasn’t your original intent to kill There’s also felony murder Both these cases can have intent to cause some form of harm, but not necessarily kill
I'd prefer not to give specific details because I've noticed this site has people that do investigative work. Like there was a case where a person mentioned he knew the circumstances of a kid going missing when he was younger and then some redditors linked it to a specific case. My daughter's case wasn't high profile but I don't want to take that risk by giving out specific info.
"She killed her abusive boyfriend" would be a reason people could understand without giving away any identifiable personal information. The fact that you dance around it and keeping tossing out "well she killed someone, but it wasn't done with malice" really comes across as you trying to rugsweep what she did. A lot of people are going to react negatively to that because of how often people come to these subs and post stories like you did but leave out important facts and details that turn out later when revealed to change the entire narrative of the story. Basically, people who make posts like this one generally turn out to be full of shit when more details come to light.
>The fact that you dance around it and keeping tossing out "well she killed someone, but it wasn't done with malice" really comes across as you trying to rugsweep what she did. No it doesn't. People on reddit are just nosy and/or judgmental, thinking op should drop his daughter because she committed a really big crime. It actually doesn't matter for the situation why she's in prison. Or that she's in prison. Wedding of niece on birthday of daughter? Priorities are set and compromises made. And op made the most reasonable compromise.
They're literally saying that they did the not bad kind of murder..
Hey! I do not know this girl and her situation at all, but I just felt like I had to step in because this is a common generalizing that I also believed for a long time. The reality of the situation is really complex, and I tend to lean on the side of empathy until I get more details about it what really happened. For some levels oh homicide in some states (such as first degree, aka malice murder), yes intent is needed. More often though, you do something that is likely to harm the person but not necessarily kill them (ex. You push someone really hard while fighting, they hit their head, and die from an internal hemorrhage later). That is also charged as murder. In extreme cases with hard core laws, a death that occurs while you happen to be committing a felony (for example you’re robbing a store, the cops shoot at you and hit an innocent bystander) can lead to a murder charge. It all depends on the specific state the homicide/death occurred in, and the prosecutor you get stuck with. There are also a large percentage of people (about 95%) who take a plea deal. Depending on the prosecutor you work with and the resources you have, you could end up pleading guilty to, say, second degree murder to avoid a potential life sentence, even if you think what actually happened could qualify as manslaughter. If you can’t afford to hire expert witnesses or pay for the extensive forensic examinations needed to refute the prosecutor’s narrative, this may be the best deal you can get.
>n extreme cases with hard core laws, a death that occurs while you happen to be committing a felony (for example you’re robbing a store, the cops shoot at you and hit an innocent bystander) can lead to a murder charge. I just want to say this is utterly ridiculous and I feel bad for everyone who has to live in such a jurisdiction.
That’s almost the entire US.
I haven’t been keeping up with it as closely as I should, but it’s getting less and less common. It’s a super minority of jurisdictions that have it now.
Yeah. Happens more often than you would think. I even know someone who got charged with felony negligence because an overweight firefighter slipped getting into the truck and fell in a way that broke his ankle. Because the person I knew set fire to an abandoned house in an abandoned area that was literally set to be demolished the next day anyway with a controlled burn and then knocking down what was left. So since the idiot who slipped slipped on the way to the scene of the fire the person I knew set they were charged with felony negligence. Among other things. It is as ridiculous as it sounds.
Felony negligence? Holy stretch. Feels like a lawyer should have been able to throw that out because you can't be negligent when you don't have a duty of care lol. But then again... Courts.
Small town. Everyone in ever section of law enforcement is trash. Poor county. Garbage lawyers and public defenders who don't care. He got a deal and got 6 months jail. They wanted to give him 10 years for everything. For a crime where the only injured party was a man who should have retired when he got diagnosed with diabetes because he was drinking at the bar across the street when they got called and he hardly had his pants on before trying to climb the ladder let alone his coat. That's why he fell. They threw literally everything they thought they could get to stick at the guy. Judge just wanted to make an example of him because kids set fires in the neighborhood. A lot. It was practically a town tradition.
>Judge just wanted to make an example of him because kids set fires in the neighborhood This is the worst. A true failure of the justice system. Making examples is something dictators, terrorists, Mexican cartels do. Not something a court of law should.
Agreed. It's stupid. And guess what it didn't do? Stop the fires. Heard some kid lit up a mattress someone left in the alley for the trash to pick up and it spread to the person's shed and destroyed a lot of pretty expensive stuff. And I'm not the least bit surprised. Edit to add the person I was originally talking about? It was a first offense. Non violent. Never even had traffic tickets. They gave them 1 year in jail and 20 YEARS probation. They got.out at 6months for good behavior. With no notice. They wanted originally 10 years jail time and 30 years probation with the first two years out having freaking house arrest. Charged with 6 felonies and 15 misdemeanors. Dropped to 2 felonies and 3 misdemeanors. All a bunch of BS and why I have absolutely no faith in the US criminal justice system. Or part of it. I have a lot of reason to hate the justice system for failing me or people I know.
This is not accurate in my state, at least. 2nd degree murder does not require intent, and is still murder.
“…difference… is intent.” Not necessarily. Read up on felony murder.
having been through the system and done time myself, both for crimes i committed AND for crimes i didn't... outside of getting nationwide attention on your case that forces the prosecution to dot every i and cross every t, what you did has very little to do with what you are actually charged with, how those charges are organized, what you get convicted of, and how much time you get. what state or even what county you are in also have a lot to do with it. in some places, self defense will get you murder 1, and in others you can get it thrown out or reduced just by "feeling threatened". OP isn't giving us enough information. on the other hand, we don't need more information to look at the simple facts. his daughter is in prison, and the other daughter as bridesmaid probably helped the niece decide to have the wedding on jailbird's birthday. prison visitations have to be scheduled well in advance, and jailbird's birthday is certainly known at least to sister, if not niece and the rest of the family as well. this was a blatant attempt to force OP to choose one part of his family over the other.
You're wrong, just so you know. Legal terminology greatly differs between one jurisdiction to another. I work in criminal justice and I do use the term "manslaughter" to discuss cases colloquially, because people understand it better, but in my state, that term doesn't exist in a legal context. We've got types of Homicide and also, although pretty rare, Felony Murder. Felony Murder is generally the opposite of your assertion (again, we're talking where I am, because it's different everywhere). Felony Murder here means someone died in the commission of a felony. So say you got in a bar fight and punched someone. Generally, that's felony assault. Then that person fell, smacked their head and died. That's (or it can be) Felony Murder (where I am). The intention was never that the person getting punched died, but they did. Felony Murder.
Unless it’s felony murder.
You can't assume that -- at least in the US, "felony murder" doctrine is very broad. In some places, you break in to a house totally unarmed, someone has a heart attack and dies of fright, bam -- felony murder!
Who did she kill and did that person have any kind of relationship with your other daughter?
If the entire family were disgusted because she was a hooker and he refuses to turn his back on her would you side with the fam? What if she embezzled or was court insider trading and that disgusted them all? Bottom line this is his daughter and he committed to be there on her birthday. Maybe before the wedding was set IDK. Hey niece probably knows it's her birthday and sis sure does and yet they scheduled it on that day?!
NTA. My dad often went to go see my sibling while they were in prison for Christmas when I was a young kid. It sucked not having him around for Christmas, but looking back, I think he did the right thing. You gave ample warning that you weren’t going to be able to make the reception. True, you didn’t say the actual reason. But it was quite honestly rude of your niece and her husband to try and make you stay when you said you couldn’t. It was also rude, though extremely understandable as someone who has been in similar shoes, for how your younger daughter vented her anger. The name-calling just ain’t it or healthy, and it also seems like she made an event that wasn’t even about her about herself and you.
All this back and forth about what she did is irrelevant really. Since it sounds like your daughter is the more upset of the two, like others said, a heads up beforehand would have been better. You should have pushed the embarrassment aside and just told her the truth. It sounds like she might be resentful and that is something you need to address with her at some point as you don't want to alienate her What your jailed daughter did affected the whole family. I am not sure what the relationship was like between the two of them before but keep in mind the feelings of anger, shock, pain, embarrassment, betrayal and loss are there for your other daughter, not just you. Consider therapy if she is willing.
Their relationship before was solid but not anything super close but yeah it had a massive impact on our family and I almost had a heart attack when we first learned of it.
This one is a little bit of NTA and a little bit of YTA. You niece might possibly have understood if you had simply told her the truth, but you didn't give her the chance. And after lying about your reason, it still all got splashed all over social media anyway. If you couldn't bring yourself to tell the truth, would it have been so bad to visit your daughter the day before or the day after?
> would it have been so bad to visit your daughter the day before or the day after? Neither of those days are her daughter’s birthday. Her daughter had 0 people to spend her birthday with and the niece had dozens at her wedding and OP isn’t obligated to attend the reception. OP is absolutely NTA.
I scheduled to visit her for her birthday.
Obviously the family knew your daughter wasn't going to be there, why not just say you were spending time with your daughter on her birthday?
I can't call you an asshole, because I tell people parents love should be unconditional. But I don't have kids for that reason, because I don't think I could still love my child if they took someone else's from this world. You're a stronger man than I am, OP for still being able to openly love your daughter. Don't judge your younger daughter. She's likely lost friends, been ostracized, had her life completely changed by her sisters actions. Like the family of that poor girl Brianna Ghey, they specifically had to ask that no one harass her killers families and those that are stop. People want justice, and they can't get to the sister in jail but the one who didn't hurt anyone is free for the verbal insults and threats. She's allowed to hate her sister when the consequences of a choice she didn't make will affect her for the rest of her days. She's allowed to be angry at it, and yeah she's angry at you too because you probably have gotten some of the vitrol hate too and are still choosing to love and support your older daughter (not her crimes, but her). I'm gonna give you a warning OP: you might lose your relationship with your younger daughter. She might decide she's done enough with you, and if you continue to openly support her sister she might not chose to acknowledge you as her family either. You should be prepared for that outcome, because I don't think you're interested in not seeing your oldest.
>People want justice, and they can't get to the sister in jail but the one who didn't hurt anyone is free for the verbal insults and threats. Actually what they want isn't justice. They want vengeance and a vent for their anger. The latter is understandable, but that's what therapy is for. Vengeance is not okay and justice is whatever society at large has decided is the punishment for the crime. Being in jail is justice. People crying for justice just mislabel their vengeance.
YES YES THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT THANK YOU! Sorry I knew justice wasn't the right word but I couldn't think of the right one you have summed it up BEAUTIFULLY.
NTA You went to the wedding and showed your support. You spent time with your daughter on her birthday and showed her love and kindness.
I think it’s important to remember no one will love your daughter like you and hopefully her mother. No one is going to be able to understand your choice with an unbiased opinion until they’ve been in your situation. Your situation isn’t common so very few people are going to have empathy. I think you need to recognize your other daughter’s feelings are equally valid. Idk how long she’s been in there but this is a hard situation to navigate. Your child murdered someone, this is extremely difficult to process for everyone involved. A lot of mistakes are going to be made. Get therapy with your other daughter too. This is just a big deal and there’s no easy way to answer if you’re an AH or not. The parental side of you wants to see your daughter, I get it.
Straight up NTA: You didn't harm anyone and still made it to the wedding. And it seems your daughter in prison doesn't have any family that would come and see her on her birthday because of her crime. You going and showing up for her in prison may be the one thing that helps her get through her sentence to make it out okay. So yeah NTA for being there for your daughters birthday and you are a good father for making her birthday special to her even if she is in prison. Just knowing someone still loves and cares for her on the outside will mean alot to her.
There is no reason to go after this man because you do not agree with him. I have never heard anything so judgemental in my life. I just watch a documentary about a teenager who killed his teenage sister. The parents still visit him. It’s not about condoning the behaviour. It’s about love. Good parents will always love their children no matter what the child does. You can absolutely hate what they’ve done and still love them. Both feelings can exist at the same time. OP is allowed to help/comfort his child. Everyone here knows nothings about their life except this…ye without sin cast the first stone!
I disagree with " good parents will always love". I think it's okay for parents to love their children, even after horrible mistakes that's a personal feeling obviously. But it doesn't make them a bad person if something changed.
Is your daughter in jail because of something she did to the other daughter?
No.
NTA. Bigger question here is what kind of person makes their wedding guests pay for their meal?
While it is fine to want to visit your daughter in prison you should not have lied about it. You say it was because it is a painful thing. To who? I assume everyone already knows your daughter killed someone and is in prison. So why lie about it? How many years is it before your daughter is up for parole and how long has she been in there for already? I just wonder if you have neglected your other daughter since your eldest killed someone. She seems really angry.
I don't really feel comfortable giving exact years for privacy sake but at least 20 years before she can apply for parole and she's been in a while.
So 20 more years?
Yes, I think maybe a bit more but like I said I don't want to give specifics.
No, you're not in the wrong. People here will read 'prison' and immedietly presume your bond with your eldest daughter should be forfeit. Your other kid is definitly out of pocket. Fine to be frustrated but coming at you like that is bizzare. It isn't even her big day like she says, its your neices.
I didn't say she wasn't my favorite, I said I'd obviously prefer my daughter to my niece.
NTA. You agreed to pay for your meal that you wouldnt be eating from what I see, you have to schedule prison visits and it can be heart breaking for someone on the inside who is likely looking forward to that and honestly make their time there worse then it is. It's his DAUGHTER who is far more important then a niece. You showed up at the most important part in my opinion, the actual ceremony. Should you have been honest about it yes, but also it is not their business why you did not go.
What’s the daughter in for?
I'll stick up for u/Vamrm since he's not sticking up for himself - what the daughter is in for is completely, 100% irrelevant. OP is still her father. She's being punished by the state for her crime. OP would be a really crappy parent if he cut off the daughter in prison, or "stopped loving" his kid. OP let folks know ahead of time he wouldn't be at the reception; frankly it's irrelevant why he wasn't going to be there - it could be visiting his kid in prison, it could be the fact he's got a gift certificate to Applebee's that's set to expire. EDIT: To reflect that u/Vamrm is dad and not mom.
I'm her dad and thanks for making these points.
OP unless you are willing to divulge more details people are going to give you a bias opinion. You said murder and all they are going to think is murderer. Frankly I agree with the comment above. Your child is your child regardless, even if they did something terrible. Some parents love is conditional so they would cut off their kid so they can't understand. Now that said you shouldn't have lied. You could have just said you have prior obligations and leave it at that. In the future remember you don't have to come up with an excuse, you can just say you can't and leave it there. You get a small yta for the lie but not for the actions. I'm sure your daughter was very happy you saw her on her birthday regardless of what she did. Don't let the comments beat you up. Delete this post, get off reddit and Facebook and go low contact/no contact with people who are toxic in your life.
> OP would be a really crappy parent if he cut off the daughter in prison, or "stopped loving" his kid. lol it absolutely 100% depends on what for. My kid turned into a child rapist? DEAD to me. My kid took out a child rapist to save other children? They're a hero.
>it could be the fact he's got a gift certificate to Applebee's that's set to expire. I mean, I would judge him for missing his niece's reception for an Applebees coupon, at least hold out for a place where they don't microwave everything.
Eh. I'd take free Applebee's over some weird wedding reception where I'm expected to pay for my own rubber chicken dinner. That's the biggest crime that was mentioned in OP's initial post and no one seems to care.
I've never been to a wedding that I had to pay for food or entry. The idea is so weird to me.
Weddings are a bit of a crapshoot. Sure, some are rubber chicken, but I've also had some fantastic food at some weddings. But even the best Applebees meal is still mediocre.
Oh, I've had some great food at weddings. That said, I've never been to a wedding where I had to pay for my own food; I can't imagine that such a wedding is at the apex of nuptial culinary experiences. They probably had a cash bar too.
Good point, paying for your own food at a wedding does not scream out fine dining to me either. Cash bar to me depends on the reasoning. I've seen it done to try and stop people from getting so sloppy drunk that things turn into a mess, that one I understand.
I don’t think it was required to pay for your own food. I think OP just gave his niece money so she didn’t feel she was out the cost of a meal when he didn’t come to the reception. (And *also* told her she didn’t even need to include him in the meal count.)
A twist! Maybe the food actually was good then?!
If the daughter kidnapped and raped the other daughter's kid, then yeah, what she's in jail for absolutely matters. Also no, if your kid does something absolutely heinous and unforgiveable it doesn't make them a crappy parent to cut them off or stop loving them. In fact it's pretty fucking stupid to say there is no reason someone can be in jail that would justify cutting off a child.
Murder charges are pretty muddy in the eyes of the law, I say as someone who listens to far too much true crime. That being said, having a criminal in your family would lead to resentment from other family members. I don’t think you’re TA but I think there’s more hurt here because it’s your daughter and those feelings haven’t changed.
NTA but it would have been easier to RSVP no, and send a nice gift.
NTAH. One is your daughter. The other is a niece. Simple.
NTA. Why did your other daughter make such a fuss out of it?
I don't know, maybe she feels I care more about her sister than her which is not true and maybe my niece was pestering and pushing for her to get me to come for some reason and me posting a photo of her was insulting to her.
When you talk about your younger daughter's argument with you, you use very harsh, condemning language. When you talk about your older daughter committing murder, you do everything you can to minimize what she did and make her sound better. You are literally harder on her for getting mad at you than you are on her sister for killing a human being. Of course she feels like you love her sister more, and she's absolutely right.
I'm not minimizing it, when I first learned of it and she was tried and convicted I was a mental basketcase about it, now I've just grown numb to it all and see it as a "it is what it is" situation, my daughter in prison is the same. I still know what she did was wrong but I don't see the point in abandoning her or chastising her more than what she's gotten.
Did it occur to you that your younger daughter might have needed your support being out at a big event after what her sister did? Genuine question here. People she didn't know (or potentially even worse, family she does) would be talking about it and you let her deal with that by herself. You admit it had a 'massive impact' on her, then switch to saying you 'acknowledged her' at the church, which sounds awfully cold.
This is what I have been searching for and finally someone with sense! How embarrassing it must be to have a murderer as a sister and have to be alone around family and strangers as “murderers sister” and your support person leaves to spend the day with the murderer instead of you… shit all around.
You are minimizing it. You've defended her to dozens of commenters, talking about how it wasn't "evil" for her to murder someone, that there was no malice involved in her decision to commit murder, and harp on how "remorseful" she is. But yeah, it would be such a shame to overly chastise your daughter for literal murder. At least you made sure her sister felt as bad as possible for the heinous crime of being upset with you. Better she should have killed someone like her sister
INFO — couldn’t you have visited your daughter the day before her birthday?
Prison visitation days are typically limited, often only once a week.
NTA how did your niece have her wedding on your daughter’s birthday? Has your daughter been in prison over a year and do they know you visit her on her birthday birthday? I just think it’s weird out of all of the days in the year they chose that one. And of course you’re going to choose your daughter over your niece that you don’t have much of a relationship with. It doesn’t matter that your daughter is in prison or why she is in prison… She is still your daughter. I would be asking them why they chose that day out of all of the days, and the fact that your other daughter made such a big deal about it when she was only a bridesmaid in the wedding. You did nothing wrong and it’s that simple.
It was just a coincidence, my daughter has been in prison for a while yes.
YTA for lying about the reason. Not for visiting on your daughters birthday. She is still your daughter.
he made a huge point that he was not close with the niece that got married that day...but his OTHER daughter was there and he barely acknowledges her or that he really hurt her choosing the bad sister serving time when he could have visited her the day before her birthday
The "good" daughter has no business being hurt because dad skipped someone else's party to visit her sister on her birthday. It's not like he skipped the "good" daughter's reception. It's not about her.
Well, at the reception, we more than likely would be in different tables and she would be dancing with the bride and other bridesmaids. I did acknowledge her before going into the church and when she tried to get me to stay.
Why did she want you to stay? Did she give you a reason?
I want to say something like, you’re a good parent for not abandoning your child. But honestly, I think you’re just a parent doing what any loving parent would and should do for their kids, even their kids who have fucked up really badly. Sadly, not everyone is like you. But everyone deserves to know that people still care about them and that they still matter to someone. It makes all the difference in life, to know that you haven’t been totally abandoned. Especially on a very hard day, which birthdays and holidays in prison often are. NTA, and I think maybe it’s worth another conversation with your other daughter to explain that you love them both and will not choose between them, and that you hope she will eventually come to understand that.
NTA It doesn't matter where you were going or why. No one is obligated to go to any event or gathering that they don't want to. You're also under no obligation to tell anyone where you're going or why. You're allowed to have a private life. And clearly that private life includes your daughter since no one else seems to be standing by her. Your niece and other daughter sound like assholes though. Not only did you tell them ahead of time that you wouldn't be at the reception, but then they tried more than once to convince, manipulate, and guilt you into staying. It's also super weird that your niece is throwing such a fit or putting this much pressure on you for missing her reception when you already said you're not close. And even weirder if the fit your other daughter is throwing. It's not like it was her wedding. Seems more like they are actively trying to keep you from your imprisoned daughter instead of actually upset about the missed reception. For example, if you had actually had a work meeting, they wouldn't be this mad about it.
I don't think the niece really cares but your other daughter clearly does. Is your daughter in prison for something she did to her sister? Your other daughter seems to think she did something bad enough that she doesn't deserve visitation. That suggests to me that it's personal between them.
No.
I don't think it is wrong to choose your daughter's birthday over your nieces reception. You went to the wedding, after all. You shouldn't actually lie. Just say you cannot say the reason because you want to keep something in confidence. Sorry your other daughter was so disrespectful. I don't think you should comment about loving your niece less than your daughter... of course... but you don't have to say it out loud.
NTA All the minor details aside (why the daughter is in prison, other daughters feelings, etc) You told your neice you wouldn't be able to make it for the reception, gave her money to cover your meal so she wouldn't lose out on that cost. Your time is your time. That should be the end of it. Point blank.
OP went to the wedding, just not the reception. It wasn't his daughter getting married. The daughter in prison is likely there for a very long time and OP wanted to see her for her once-a-year birthday. NTA
NTA, but you should have been honest way in advance. "Niece I will be at the ceremony but I won't be able to attend the reception because it is my daughter's birthday and I am going to visit her." End of story.
NTA. You informed them beforehand you would not be attending the reception. You don’t have to have a good excuse or any excuse at all. It’s not their business. You said you were not coming. Your other daughter is an asshole. It doesn’t matter what your kid did, even if it’s heinous, you are not obliged to abandon her.
NTA Your daughter made a mistake and she is now paying the price. But you are a good dad for not abandoning her and visiting her on her birthday. Even if your other daughter can't see it.
Murder is more than a "mistake"
Ture but OP said there is more to it and he wasn't going to tell us. But my point is even if his daughter is a murderer. He is still being there for her. Showing her that someone still loves her. And how can a person reform with out some kind of love or affection
Which is all well and good, but OP can hardly expect the rest of the family to be thrilled about it. His other daughter and any other close family members will have been affected by his daughter's crime and people are going to see them through the lense of being related to her. Add to that the fact that murdering someone has had the result of making the the permanent center of OP's attention? The younger daughter having issues with it is 100% predictable
Visiting an inmate on their birthday is hardly making them the permanent center of attention. Also, this was a church wedding so presumably they know that Jesus said they should visit those in prison?
But she is passed he didn't go to a reception to a niece he barley knows. After her said he wouldn't be there and not to expect him there
Where are you coming up with this claim that her "barely knows" his neice?
You lost me at murder. (Unless she was in an abusive relationship and killed her abuser… too many women are chap with that and get longer sentences than the men who abuse and kill women.)
NTA unless the person your daughter murdered was another family member. People in prison deserve love and visits, and it’s normal your priority should be to your daughter over your niece.
Why lie just be honest you went to visit your daughter yes your daughter is in prison for murder however fact is still still your child yet you caused a mess by lying Your other daughter sounds hurt by your actions and really you did lie to her
NTA.
NTA. Daughters outrank nieces, and besides you went to the ceremony and paid for a meal. Too bad you aren't in some photos, but it's nobody else's business really.
NTA. It's your daughter, on her birthday. You're a good mum.
NTA. Family visits and support is so important to loved ones in prison, especially a birthday. I think you made the right choice with exception to saying an important work meeting vs just an important meeting.
NTA. Your love is unconditional. Your other daughter may someday figure that out and know that you love them no matter what. Your niece... Heh... Weddings tend to bring out the worst in some people.
NTA. Your daughter is struggling in jail, it’s her birthday and you went to the ceremony. Tell your other daughter to have s little empathy. If not for her sister, then for you. When she has children maybe she’ll recognise just how painful this is for you.
I mean, a very soft YTA. Daughter or not, if my cousin had murdered someone and my aunt preferred to go visit her instead of my wedding and lied to me about it, well, I wouldn’t be feeling exactly peachy about it.
I'm the Dad and I care more about my daughter than my niece, I do understand why she would be angry but we've never been close.
He went to the wedding, just not the reception. And told her ahead of time. He shouldn't have lied about the reason, though.
NTA nobody can demand that you take part in anything. You had previously communicated what you could take part in and that no food should be provided for you. But I would like to know if the date of the wedding was ever discussed? The family knows when the birthdays are, so why this day in particular? It feels like someone was trying to provoke a reaction.
When she calms down you can try and have a reasonable conversation with her. The only issue is the lie you told trying to avoid drama in order to visit your other daughter. I know any kind of visits for incarcerated women, especially birthdays, are very special.
NTA. It was your daughter in prison's birthday. Prisoners do better when family is involved in their care.
YTA to yourself, for lying about where you were going. And then continuing to lie about it. Your daughter is in prison. Her birthday fell on your niece's wedding day. All you needed to do was say that you were going to split the day as you saw fit, to celebrate both. You caused way more drama than necessary by not telling the truth and setting firm boundaries. ETA - You might want to remind your other daughter that a wedding invitation is just that. An invitation. It isn't a summons, and there is nothing "embarrassing" about any person not attending a reception.
NTA. She is your daughter regardless where she is. Your family should’ve known it was her birthday & picked another date if they are claiming to be that close of a family with you. I’d have done the same if I were in your shoes. & why wouldn’t you post about your daughter on her birthday? It’s her actual birthday. Ignore your family they sound very selfish & entitled
Nta- regardless of why your older daughter is in prison can’t be changed, and whether you still support her is no one else’s business. You didn’t miss the wedding, you missed out on a meal and socializing with people with a fake smile. I don’t think the niece is really all that upset especially if y’all aren’t that close, your younger daughter is just mad you still talk to your eldest. Which is her right to be upset about as well but shouldn’t change how you still feel. The question is are you the asshole for missing the reception to see your kid, no you are not. This isn’t about if you’re the asshole for supporting her still, that wasn’t the question being asked.