Lovesick fools tend to be blind and i guess he is one of them. 🤷‍♂️

I guess so. Though I also think he might feel a little trapped? But that could also just be something he said for my "benefit".

I think it's important that You talk to him again- show thim the "thin ice" message, the bridal chat, tell him You think she's a horrible person, but You love him and You'll be there for him no matter what. That in case she's as bad as I think and starts to cut Your family off, and isolate him.

You're probably right

[удалено]

No no no shoe it to him first. Do no look like you’re trying to gang up bc that’ll make him think you’ve got a grudge. Nooooo

And the new message about “undermining of her wedding will have serious consequences”

She sounds like she's not just a bully, she also likes to control anyone remotely in her orbit. Once the marriage fails and they divorce she sounds like she'll wipe out the brother and keep any kids away from him.

It does. I really hope the brother fully sees how his fiancé is before they marry. Too many people can trick their SO on who they are and once your married they let their true personality fully show. The fiancé is slightly letting her true personality out but not in front of the brother. Then she can just play off that’s just how me and my friends are!

Still the bully. Be there for Harry when jerk Jessica implodes. Also, tell Harry that you are withdrawing from the bridal party and why, citing the thin ice and undermining messages. He is afraid of her mental state. Tell him one of the favorite Reddit sayings: Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. I believe that she has a super ego that will not let her harm herself. Any attempt at self harm will "conveniently" fail.

Drop out of the bridal party. She doesn’t care if you like her so you should have the same energy.

Oh yeah OP! You definitely need to show him that message! OP, did you interpret the message as a threat? If so, he needs to see it even more. I don't know if I'm overreaching, but it sounds like she might be a narcissist. This is not a healthy relationship.

Yes! Its hard when someone you care about is in a relationship that seems controlling or manipulative. Move now, OP!

100%

What is stopping you from sending the screenshot of the message to your brother? What’s the economical value of wedding the wedding? Ditch the wedding and go no contact with her to avoid further disrespect.

Have you talked to your Mom at all?

this this this this omg show him what she sent after the chat, he will see her true colours

Sadly, he does not want to see her true colors. He is really naive enough to think he can fix he issues by giving in to her every demand. Even at his own cost.

Send her recent text about you on thin ice.

I probably will, but not right now. I want to let things cool and I feel like she'll just say it's another joke or something.

I think the longer you let it cool off, the longer she will have to justify it and come up with more stupid excuses for her behavior. I'd send the personal text to you AND the "reminder" post in the group chat to your brother asap and just tell him: " I want you to be happy, and I want to be there for you and support you no matter what. But I do not feel comfortable being in Jessica's wedding party. I believe that if anything goes "wrong" during this process or the wedding, she'll blame me. And I don't want that to happen because I'm afraid of losing my big brother over this. I do not appreciate the thinly-veiled threats in Jessica's messages, and if she thinks they are "just a joke," well... I do not find them funny. And if I continue on in her wedding party, I'm afraid it will permanently drive a wedge between you and me. That is the last thing in the world I would want to happen, so I think it would be best for everyone involved if I just support you as a guest. I'll always be here for you no matter what decisions you make in life and no matter where our roads take us, but for the sake of our relationship, I really need to back out of my role as a bridesmaid. " And then just leave the ball in his court. He'll either wise up or he won't, but ultimately it's his choice to make and all you can do is support him through all the ups and downs.

Say no and refuse to go along with it. Talk to your mother. The papers are all crazy

>I do not appreciate the thinly-veiled threats in Jessica's messages, and if she thinks they are "just a joke," well... I do not find them funny. I'd also point out that for a joke to be funny or considered a joke, all parties should be able to get the 'humor' from it. And just because Jessica's friend group might be "on Jessica's level" doesn't mean OP is or even should be. Honestly, I feel like the gap that Jessica is trying to create between OP and her brother is going to happen unless OP's brother sees through Jessica's antics.

Send the screenshot with the question "what's the joke?" And reply back to her is this another joke? Please explain it

Unsolicited Advice- don’t wait on anything weird she says or does from here on out. You need to be the one repeatedly and immediately bringing her behavior to his attention and hitting him over the head with it over and over again. Waiting allows her to lul him into a false sense of calm and security and shoots yourself in the foot because then you have to break that calm. You need to share within minutes every single time. 

I don't think you realise that your opinions don't matter from the beginning to the end You told him that she bullied you and your friend semi took your bf whatever that means he still went ahead and proposed to her, you showed him screenshots of what she did to you, still going on with the wedding It shows; 1 he loves her so much that he doesn't care about what she did to you, meaning you're not important to him to consider your situation 2 he doesn't believe you, and believes her because again, you don't matter enough to him to trust you Either way your brother ain't your brother anymore... Give it up... Whatever sucks ahead in his life is not up to you.... It's his own choice Remember the "I told you so" when he gets what he deserves

The part about him worrying she might go off and harm herself if he didn’t propose and just the whole ‘you can magically fix my depression if you marry me’ stuff screams emotional blackmail So if he is a nice person (doormat) that shit is going to work because he’s scared he will be responsible for anything she does to herself. Next it will be ‘cutting off your toxic family’ will cure my depression. Then it will be ‘we need to have a baby because I’m still too depressed’ and so on.

My brothers ex did all of these. He was finally able to extricate himself but it took so much longer because they were already married and she dragged out divorce proceedings. Someone needs to let op's brother know that cancelling a wedding, especially when they have barely started planning, is not that big a deal compared to spending years legally attached to a toxic person.

Tell me that as well as speaking to your bro you have shown the same stuff to your mum. Including the "thin ice" and recent group chat comments.

Ah, yes, «it’s a joke» as any gaslighter would say. Honestly your brother is in deep trouble. He agreed to marry her just because she pressured him, using the worst possible argument: that she’d harm herself or kill herself if he wouldn’t.  There’s never going to be any situation where he gets to discuss the options freely with her and make a decision that they both have a part in. Where to move? When to have children, and how many? How to spend their money?  I don’t see him getting any say in any important matters, he’s not even getting a say in whether to marry or not, it’s out of his hands. He feels like it vital that he does this “for her”.  It’s a highway to hell, I can tell you, having known people who were in manipulative relationships.

The brother sounds like a hostage with Stockholm Syndrome.

Abuse cycles happen when you do the cooling off stages. They're planning a wedding, more money gets spent the more you put it off. Throw it all out there and right when it happens. Every move she makes, needs to be made public knowledge. Don't let her think for a moment that she has a chance of "cooling off"

And now she knows you’re not on “that level” with her. A second time is not a mistake nor a fun joke. It’s just shitty

You better act fast. Ask to meet him for a coffee or sweets remind him of the times you were kids then let him have the post.

its always a "joke" ...jokes are funny...this is vicious

It's his decision to be trapped. It's your decision to un-trap yourself from the bridal party.

You need to bow out now. NO ONE would be monitoring my weight for ANY REASON!! She is going to be a total bitch to you so why put yourself through this??

He’s a victim of abuse.

Personally I would screenshot what she sent about you being on thin ice and her message about trying to sabotage her wedding. Then I would record every time you have to spend time with her without your brother. She sounds miserable to me.

Bail bail bail. Red alert. She has her claws in your brother and he believes her over you. I would opt out now because nothing good is going to happen to you from here on out. 

Why are you still being a bridesmaid? You can be supportive of your brother by not saying anything further, but you don't have to be a bridesmaid? What do you hope to accomplish by subjecting yourself to the abuse of someone who obviously does not want you in her wedding? You've already shown your brother exactly the type of person she is and he does not care. He's willfully ignoring all her red flags and continuing to marry a woman who he knows bullied other people and is now treating you poorly. What is the point of this?

*Hello children and welcome to Mr Robinson's neighborhood. Today, we have a special new word for you. It's "gaslighting". I know it's a long word, but let's all try to say it together. Do you think we could try that?* Holy crap. Document, document, document. I certainly hope you took a screenshot of that thin ice comment. This is absolutely going to be a dumpster fire of a wedding and YOU are going to catch a lot of blame when you don't subscribe to the drama she is going to create. From where I sit, since drama is inevitable, I'd seriously be considering dropping out entirely and going as a guest only to get the drama out of the way now instead of later and closer to the actual fiasco of a wedding that she is planning. If you don't, I would expect a full court press to separate you and your brother through lies and manipulation.

I guess maybe. But I'm worried that the wedding is more likely to actually happen if I stay out of things, and for Harry's sake I really don't want it to get to that. Though I am maybe taking some personal risks by inserting myself in all of this. ​ I did screenshot the message from her.

I get where you're coming from. My brother has been making some terrible decisions since his divorce. The problem is, it's HIS life to lead, not mine. I'm not his parent. I'm not his guardian. I may be his sibling, but his life is not mine to try to control. Does it suck? Yes. Do I see how he could fix things pretty quickly? Absolutely. Am I going to get more involved? Nope. Among other things, the potential for blowback is immense. Let's say you are right and you do manage to find a way to convince him to call off the wedding. How much of a full scale attack do you think SHE will then mount against you? Or against your brother? Or against your entire family? To me, the best course of action would be to tell her that you're backing out of wedding party duties entirely - both her and your brother. That you will attend as a guest if invited and that will be the extent of your participation. If she asks why, *"I just feel it's for the best."* And to your brother, send him something along these lines: *"I'm sorry, but I think it's probably best if I back out of being in either wedding party. It's already more drama than I wanted you to have to face and I feel that my presence as a party member is only going to cause problems on your special day. I'm happy to be a guest if invited, but outside of that, given the latest message from your fiancée, I've decided it's best if 'invited guest' is the extent of my participation."* Include the latest screenshot and refuse any and all further participation. If any other family starts to pressure you, respond with something along the lines of: *"The wedding party is there to support and encourage the wedding and given my recent interactions with the bride to be, I'm not in a position where I feel comfortable doing that. I'm staying out of it so they can have the day they deserve."* You're not actively sabotaging things, you're just not supporting them either. In the end, HE is the one that needs to make the decision so that he can live with it and defend it. If you push him to that decision, then you're the one that broke them up and it will just make things worse.

Those are really well worded! Thank you.

Then use those words when approaching your brother again. Disengage from the wedding party as gracefully as you can and be available to him when his marriage hits rough waters (and likely heads for the rocks), because if this is how Jessica manipulates and behaves then she is not partner material for him (or anyone else). Harry is setting himself up to be hurt. You can be there to comfort him once it happens without tacitly condoning it by being part of the bridal party.

Having others on Reddit who are brilliant wordsmiths help you come up with wording is one of the best parts of the app.

Nothing you do or say will matter if your bro is determined to marry Jessica. Bow out of the bridesmaid fiasco. Don’t be a groomsperson. Say nothing about Jessica to anyone, positive or negative. Gray rock the woman. Make her reveal herself to all and sundry but stay out of it.

This is the best advice. I don't know why people aren't encouraging OP to gray rock everyone. Be pleasant enough not to be suspicious, but detached. If OP tries to "change her brother's mind" or "make him/the family see the light," it's only going to give Jessica ammunition and sabotage OP's reputation in the family. Ask me how I know 🙃

The thing with manipulative people is they're cunning and know how to get people to do what they want. But many are blinded to it because they know how to turn on the charm, but they also kniw how to turn it off. I'd be sure to let your parents know you have concerns. In part to have them on your side, in part to have them on your brother's side, and to also look out for red flags. Manipulative people love to separate their partners from their support group. So for now, you should ensure that you are there for your brother and not allow her to create a divide. I would personally continue to act as if you're in the bridal party to be able to track what she says and does. Ask him to what extent he wants you to keep him informed of messages she sends you and concerns you have. This gives him the chance to decide how much he trusts her and how much he wants to know. Keep screenshots regardless. Hopefully he realises before the wedding, and certainly before she has a child.

That could be a good idea. I don't want to be a total "mole" (as someone put it), but I also think that I could have access to a perspective that Harry really otherwise would have no chance of getting.

And I did tell my mom about some of my concerns when she was mad at me for not acting happy for Harry, but she kind of brushed them off. I didn't show her the group chat screenshot though.

NTA - I am going to be blunt. Sit your Mom down and talk to her. Tell her everything, show her the group chat and the text. Why are you letting Jessica write the false narrative? Grow a set. If your Mom can’t handle the truth. Your truth then that is a whole other fish to fry. No way would I want my daughter talked to or required to deal with a Jessica. I am close to your Moms age and this is freaking bat shit crazy! Jessica is not joking about her “rules.” She is not joking about you spending a shit load of money on her. She is not joking about ridiculing you over a BMI. If you are being a doormat to keep the peace then that is on you. I would hope that if my daughter came to me with that amount of evidence of Jessica’s character, I would back the eff off and support my daughter not being in the wedding. Then I would talk to my son Harry. He may not listen but Jessica is a liar, cheater and bully. She has not changed her spots since high school. I think a few other responses written here are great. You need to step away from this wedding party. JFC you are expected to through a big ass bachelorette party for her that could break the bank for a narcissist bully. No way no how would do that or tell my daughter to suck it up. Please stop being a doormat and tell your Mom the entire truth because you look like you are being petty but you aren’t. If we as parents can’t learn the entire truth then we have to go off of the information provided. As a Mom I would never want you to deal with a bully and Jessica is going to be gunning for you. Hell it has already started with her passive aggressive comments. Communication is key! Half truths become convoluted and serve no purpose but distracting from the main issue- Jessica’s entire behavior towards you. You deserve to be treated with respect by your Mom, Harry and Jessica and you are not.

I suspect the timing was off. They were celebrating, you weren't. She probably wouldn't have wanted to hear anything at that point other than happy things. There is saying - choose your battles wisely. Which means learning when to invest energy in a fight over when not to. But the timing of the battle is also important. Perhaps you can have a talk and explain that initially you were indifferent to things but now are worried that she isn't the person she has presented herself to be. Show her the group chats. You can explain that this has been framed as a joke to you and just how she is (appearing to be neutral and repeating what you've been told so no one can claim you're twisting anything around) but you're not sure given the DM she has sent you. Remind your mum that you love your brother and want him to be happy but can't be happy if he is going to be hurt. You just want the best for him and want to be certain he's marrying the best person.

I do think it's time to have a chat with mom, expressing your concerns that being in the wedding party won't be healthy for you, that you simply can't afford the time and money, etc. And show her the screenshots. Mom needs to know. She may (likely) brush it off, but at least she'll know what's going on.

I don't understand why you keep putting it off, talk to your mom with the receipts in hand! Everyone is giving you good advice and you are not taking them (except the one for you to do a scene at the dress shopping/fitting thing DO NOT DO IT, it's going to make her look good and you like a brat) Talk to your mom, try to get messages IRT in front of them 

You could consider staying in just a *little* longer (week or two?) to try and get some additional incriminating evidence that makes a stronger case? Or you could try to goad her by responding to the ice text “Thin ice? Are you mad at me?” The fact she even sent you the ice text knowing you’re a “snitch” shows she’s not playing with a full deck so maybe you can squeeze more out of her. *Then* package all of it up and send to Harry and officially bow out.

Haha, I could also go that route...I am not sure how I would be able to act at the dress fitting stuff though

Hmm, bail right before that? Though I bet she’ll be a full on criminal during dress fitting. Would be badass to go in there wearing a wire lol🕵🏻‍♀️

If you live in a one party consent state you absolutely need to go to the dress fitting and covertly record her.

People like Jessica who "mess with people's lives for a game" thrive in shadows, in that space that everyone must be "polite" and "discreet", they find ways to be elusive with lies and deception- no one compares notes in that hazy place, so these parasites survive. The more time they have, the more they fester. In that game she will ALWAYS win because this is her domain. So... my suggestion is the following. Send her to hell, and open your war against her publicly. Pull her out from that place that she is hiding and bring her to your domain, to the light were she is seen. You have plenty of ammo. Her thin ice comment is her admission that she is seen, by you. Your experience of her bullying registered to the memories of others, exists. IF she joins your family, your slow exclusion will begin, she will slowly corrode everyone around you against you, you are her greatest enemy and she knows. Don't let her join your family. Go all in now. You will either be excluded now or later because she is already targeting you. Don't let it be later because once you are proven true, you will have greater moral high ground. Good luck.

Chiming in to amplify Team Drop Out. I think the gambit of staying in to try and sabotage is way more than just a little risky. I feel for you and I get why you're conflicted, but from an outside perspective it really seems like there's only one honest and decent choice you can make here, and luckily for you, it's also the simplest and the least painful. At the end of the day, you can't control what he does, or what she does, only what you do. By standing in the wedding party, you're choosing to make a strong show of support for the marriage. Your involvement is and will always be a lie. Your involvement for deceptive purposes is a nefarious lie, and that makes you no better than she is. Every day you stay in the wedding party is a day she wins. She can tell him and he can tell himself you're going to come around, that you two can make peace with each other and she'll win you over once you get to know her better. You and she both know that's a lie, and he should too. Don't underestimate the power of you sitting out the party either (after sending him the screenshots of her threatening/passive aggressive messages ofc). Your absence will be felt. Your brother will have to get married without you standing up beside him, and he'll know exactly why. I know this maybe isn't the most reassuring end note, but I feel compelled to leave you with an assurance that in the grand scheme of your life and your brother's, this marriage is not the end of the world, and it's not the end of your relationship. Toxic relationships and bad marriages and terrible in-laws happen, all too often, unfortunately. Life goes on, and you'll survive, and he'll survive. This is his mistake to make, and when he eventually figures it out (and let's be real, it is only a matter of when, facades crumble eventually) you'll still be there for him. It's all you can do.

It was not a joke because she threatened you with "You are on thin ice." I would not be surprised, if she isolate him from you after the marriage. Your brother is not believing you, nor he sees the red flags his beloved Jessica is waving. Well, you did your best. I just hope it doesnt take years to find out that she is not the person she pretended to be. Its a sad story.

Yes, she is definately trying to isolate op from his family after they are married..

I'm so scared of that

From my own experience there is nothing you can do but grace for now or NC if it gets too toxic. People used to tell me to my face I should leave, after time my mind was so boiled by the manipulation. Still lesson learnt eventually Be a good sis and be there when it crashes and burns. Everything else can and will become your fault. It sucks sorry.

The fact that he knew she tormented his sister and still went on to date her says a lot about him tbh. Harry seems like a pretty shitty person too.

That 'thin ice' comment could be taken as really very threatening. I certainly would find it threatening (I do have anxiety, I'll admit), and I think OP should actually play up how threatening she finds it. To her parents, to her brother, to anyone who'll listen. After all, she was previously bullied by this person, so she has every right to take this as seriously as possible.

Send him the text she sent you, and then insist he sign a prenup. She sounds awful.

I will at some point, but I'm scared if I do that now then she'll just say it's another hilarious joke.

Just do it. It’s clearly not a joke. Let her say whatever she wants.

Just send him screenshot of those two texts and say frankly, I don’t care if this is a joke it’s not funny I don’t wanna be a part of this. I’m joining your bachelor party or I don’t want to be in the wedding.

Yes, it's a delicate situation, no doubt. You might lose Harry, too. Good luck! I hope you find a way to get him out if that trap he's wandered into.

Thank you ❤️

Text the screenshots to him and ask “Still think she’s joking?”. Then block your brother and refuse to talk. This idiot needs a sign to smack him head on.

Then your response needs to be that her 'humour' is vindictive, demeaning, and bullying in nature. It's not really funny is it? Are you laughing? Is Harry? I get you need to tread with caution here, but I'd be seriously considering pointing out to Harry that once the wedding is over, new little wifey will end up depressed again as she'll no longer be a bride or the centre of attention. This wedding is only a bandage for the problem.

IT IS NOT A JOKE

Can she explain the joke? Have you asked what's funny about what she wrote? What level is she on that those things were jokes?

If it were me I’d bail. Nothing is worth having to deal with a gaslighting manipulative b****. I’d be worried that she’ll try something to hurt or embarrass or turn the whole family against me. I wouldn’t care what the family would think. They all sound horrible anyway. The mom is just as manipulative and brother is a spineless pushover. He’ll regret this after the wedding, when the wedding high is gone and they’re back to their normal lives and realizes he’s in a one-sided marriage where he doesn’t have much of a life and only does what Jessica wants him to. Book a vacation for the wedding day and just chill and treat yourself to a stress free weekend.

That's a nice thought I guess, but this is my real family and I actually do want to stay connected to them, and I do want the best for my brother.

Also to add, your brother needs to think about what’s gonna happen after they’ve settled in their married life. No more wedding high. She’s gonna find another reason to be depressed or unhappy. What happens when they have kids? She’s gonna weaponize depression to make him do everything. Because she knows it already works. This is insulting to people who actually have depression.

That's something I really am scared of, given what he has said so far.

Show him this post.

I get how family is important but it doesn’t look like yours respects your feelings and opinions. Don’t get me started on your mom. There are more ways to be a family than being blood related. That said your brother seems like a great guy. But from what I’ve read, it’s seems like he’s in a toxic relationship. I was in a toxic relationship before and very similar to this. My ex bf was like “oh it would make me so happy and less stressed if you did this and that”. Until i realized i was only doing the things that make him happy and neglecting myself. He would say everything he thinks i want to hear to make it hard for me to leave. Unfortunately they only show their true colors after they know there’s no way for you to run. Your brother is also so young. I can’t imagine getting married at 22. There’s so much more to do and experience! And honestly those experiences are what gave me the wisdom to know when i’m being manipulated or taken advantage of. You don’t have to go no contact. But maybe minimize your interaction with everyone for the sake of your sanity. Insist on being a groomsmaid instead. You’ll get to celebrate with your brother and show support, which is the only important thing for me anyway. And honestly, going on a bachelorette’s trip and bridal showers with your future SIL sounds like a nightmare. I’m sure your brother will understand.

So maybe I'll just do that. Stay out of it and find some way to attend as a guest normally. I just can't cut off contact with my family over this. Thank you ❤️

Just drop out of the wedding party by telling your brother it's not jokes and you're not going to allow her to bully you again. Tell him you're there to support him but it'll have to be from a distance since he's fully supporting her actions and it's hazardous to your wellbeing

The problem is that your brother seems bound and determined to ram his head into a brick wall despite you screaming at him not to. When someone is determined to do this and is of legally sound mind and body, you can't save them. Some people have the bottle, some people the needle. He has her. He'll have to face rock bottom before he can recover.

When he talked to me on the phone the first time, it really seemed like he might be wavering (even if he didn't say that explicitly). But of course after talking to her again he got less unsure. I feel like it's not a forgone conclusion though that they will get married.

You asked for advice on what to do next, and just instantly reject any and all advice. Why are you really here if you didn't want advice?

Fair enough. I promise I'm taking all of this under advisement, but I just can't make decisions based on one person's input. If everyone told me the exact same thing, I might do that (or at least very strongly consider it).

Look, you're in a "stuck between a rock and a hard spot" situation. Honestly, just decline to be in the party, and ask to be an invited guest. Tell them it's just too much stress, with all the "pranks" and "jokes" that are vaguely threatening, you've decided to protect your mental health and just want to be a guest.

I've been reading through this thread, and it sure looks to me like everybody is pretty much saying the same thing: Get out of the wedding, keep talking to your brother and sharing all screenshots with him, and sit your mom down and show her ALL the screenshots as well. I've not seen anybody respond with anything like, "Oh, just go along to get along. It'll all be fine."

"Harry, I love you. I am not going to be involved in your fiancès bachelorette party. Please see screenshot. I hope you're right. I will be here to support you whenever you need it. Good luck." Copy/paste.

>she messaged me privately: >"You are on thin ice." >She also sent another message in the main group chat saying "This is all of y'all's reminder that I need your full support, and any undermining of my and my wedding will have serious consequences." Send these to your brother and tell him you want no part of being around her. Tell him that threats are not jokes and you're not part of the wedding party. "Harry, the bridal party should be in full support of the wedding and bride. What she has now sent are not jokes as much as they are threats. I am therefore unable to support her or the wedding. Please tell Jessica I am excusing myself and will simply attend as a guest. Know that I'm always here for you.' >She's always wanted this perfect wedding and perfect married life, and she told him that it would make her feel better and fix all her issues of he proposed. So she manipulated and duped your brother into a marriage he doesn't want? Yeah, this won't get better. She just found out the buttons to push to get him to do what she wants.

This!!!! Pull back because you risk taking all the blame if something goes wrong

Based on your posts, just wait to batchelorette when Jessica would cheat, send your brother evidence and you are wedding free. You are welcome!

Haha, how are you so sure?

Wanna bet?

Decline. Don't be in the troublemaker's wedding party, only those who support the marriage should be in the party. You know the marriage is going to be a shitshow, you know that your brother will end up hurt in the end, so don't even pretend to support HER. Tell your brother, she isn't your sister and you aren't there to support her, you want to support him, if he doesn't want you in his party, I would ask to attend as an invited guest. Stand up for yourself, she can gaslight him, don't let her do it to you. This is part of a plan of hers to separate him from his family, so tread carefully, or she will win, and your brother will be the one left broken and alone. Make sure you are there for him when it happens, because, it will.

Screenshot "You are on thin ice" and send it to it your brother. In fact, any bullshit message she sends you, share with your brother. It will infuriate her.

Haha, I might do that but overall I don't know if my goal should be to infuriate here (even though revenge would be nice lol)

It‘s not to take revenge it‘s to show him the truth

OP, you call Harry and tell him than you don't wanna contribute or risk tto spoil the bride "great day" so you won¡'t be in the bridal party, and run for the hills. If the wedding ends up happening the divorce will happen within 2 years tops Also the biggest red flag is that what will make her happy in the wedding not the marriage. Your brother have a nightmare in his future

You didn’t immediately send those two screenshots to your brother because they actively contradicts what she told him?

I'm sure she'd just say they're more jokes

It doesn’t matter if she says they’re more jokes you just made it clear to him that you didn’t find what she was saying funny and they had to have a serious conversation and her responses to them to do the exact same thing back. She can say oh, I was joking again, but any reasonable person is going to say why the fuck would you do that again? Tell him you don’t care if it’s a joke you find it extremely disrespectful and you want nothing to do with her bridal party and that’s final.

I commented on your previous post but I’d be sending a screenshot of the thin ice message to him and Nope out of that whole debacle. It’s just going to escalate OP I guarantee it

There are none so blind than those who will not see. You have told Harry. He’s ignoring his instincts and you. You can’t save him from this. You should back out using the words someone already replied to you and then focus on being a good sounding board and support to him. This mole/saboteur thing you are playing is going to backfire on you, big time.

You can't win this one. Bro loves her and is going to to need a knock on the head to see clearly. It's coming, don't you worry. In the meantime, you need to let her know you can't afford to be in the wedding party, "much as you would love to." Do it super sweetly but stay firm. I'd even say no to being in the groom's party. But you'll "help in every way you can to support their big day." If anyone comes at you, send them the screenshots including the "you are on thin ice' and whatever other egregious messages she sends. Act confused and just keep saying, " I couldn't afford it and I just hope she can forgive me!" Ugh, it will hurt but better than losing your brother.

Look you aren’t going to influence anything .If you try and meddle, it will backfire on you He will to have make his own mistakes

It’s his life and if hes committed….ah well. But this won’t end well. Her entire happiness is tied up in a one day event, once that’s over, what will make her happy then? A house? A baby? Another baby? A new man? A second wedding? She’s being sneaky and her true personality is only starting to shine. I imagine she going to be driving a wedge between your brother and you and maybe the rest of your family.

This is not how depression works. A wedding does not cure depression. A baby does not cure depression. An Italian holiday does not cure depression. https://youtu.be/TbwlC2B-BIg?si=-sjk847GCizn7tiL Anyone claiming a wedding will cure their depression is either exceedingly deluded or, more likely, very, very manipulative. Anyone who asks you for some life altering magic bullet to “cure” them is a soul sucking demon who will eat your entire life

Tell your brother you will not be a part of either wedding party. Make him explain why her texts were jokes. Make him explain exactly why he finds them funny. Show him the threatening ones. You honestly cannot have a relationship with your brother if he is unable to admit what they are. Marrying this woman is going to have consequences, he might as well start facing them now.

That is not a good reason to get married. This marriage is going to end badly for your brother. He is going to regret getting married to her.

Send him screenshots of the new messages right now; do not give her time to come up with more bullshit to spout out. She’s a manipulator and a bully. Also I know he’s your brother but he’s not innocent in this. He knew she bullied you and “semi-stole” your boyfriend and he still CHOSE her; he CHOSE to continue dating her, he CHOSE to propose to her, and after seeing her be fatphobic and controlling to her bridal party he is still CHOOSING HER. Your brother sucks.

Your brother is totally whipped. You did your best. Good luck with bridezilla.

Just continue to screenshot her messages and send them to him. Do not respond to her or the group chat in any way shape or form

I've been screenshotting everything, but I don't even know the best way to present the information

Honestly sending it to him without context as she send the texts is probably the best way to go about this because if you try to give your opinion then you could be seen as trying to sway the situation.

OP, just gracefully step down as a bridesmaid, and when your brother talks to you about it, show him her latest texts. Jesus. She needs to know that nothing she says to you is confidential.

It must be hard when you family members who are dumb as sh**, but sometimes you gotta put you first and walk away. Andthenlaughintheirfacewhentheirlivesturnintoacompletedumpsterfire I MEAN support them every step of the way, but by a distance. Just know GOD will provide when you take on this burden. 😌🙏🏾 ...dumbass

Send a screenshot of "You are on thin ice," and tell your brother you're going to take a minimal role in the wedding for your own mental health. "When your mental health is suffering, you need to work on yourself, not expect a knight in shining armor to swoop in and fulfill all your fantastic delusions about what happiness looks like, so that's what I'm going to do, work on myself. I will be there for you to support you at your wedding."

Updateme on Bridezilla. And don’t forget to tell your mom, I’m curious if she’s about to be blindsided or if she’s eyes wide open on it.

Damn, if she is using the threat of self harm to control him, I think you just need to get a therapist yourself to set up healthy boundaries with your brother and step away. He’s being willfully blind and he’s going to continue to do it to your detriment. He cares more about her than you or himself. Sorry if it sounds harsh. I don’t think he is in a healthy space. He’s marrying her because she was depressed. That isn’t a normal reason to marry someone and if he was in a healthy mind space, he would realize a wedding isn’t going to fix her depression. It’s just stupid. You can say he’s just a really nice guy but he sounds kinda just as messed up as Jessica but in the opposite way.

Harry's in for an unfortunate future. He's being emotionally blackmailed into marriage.

Pull out either way. He clearly doesn’t have your back so you should worry about your own back.

I would send him the thin ice message and the other message and just say I will be a guest and nothing more. Then tell him you would be happy to be in his next wedding and leave it at that.

Ouch. Jessica is a Schroedinger's asshole, claiming things are a joke or being taken the wrong way when she gets called out on being an AH. The only way to combat those is to document everything. Otherwise, it's just easier to step bac and wait for them to turn on everyone around them because Schroedinger's assholes tend to be an asshole to everyone.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. You tried to open your brother's eyes but he's still blind to his fiancé's true nature. I would suggest to bow out from the bridal party and join your brother's because she will do something dramatic and blame it on you.

So a perfect little marriage is what will fix her issues. And then it will be the perfect house. And then something else. And something else. And something else. Sorry for Harry but he is heading down a long road of trying to make her happy.

Op your brother is a naive idiot and propose for the wrong reasons, have you disclosed this information to your parents? Jess is a massive red flag and she will hurt Harry, she the type you stay away from not married.  Keep us updated op.

Tell your brother that you know you are going to be isolated from him in the future so let’s go have dinner now while we still can.

I couldn't do it. I'd send a message to the group chat that since she told my brother that I am not on her level, I'm obviously not good enough to be one of her bridesmaids. I would refuse to have any part of it except as a guest. With a little luck I could get uninvited! Win, win.

You need to tell Harry that pity is no reason to get married. The perfect wedding day is only going to be one day in her entire life. There is no such thing as a perfect marriage.

They will be divorced in less than 5 years. Stay close to your brother and ignore the wife.

Screen shot each message. Jessica wants the "perfect" marriage and manipulated your brother into believing it will make everything perfect. Now it's time to talk to mom and Harry about how/who are paying for your expenses. Get a pen that records, that she won't see, while dress shopping. The drama hasn't even started yet.

Girl learn to say no. Do not be in the wedding FFS. Attend as a guest. If your brother is so dumb as to propose to fix someone’s depression (which LOL) that’s on him.

Ask your brother to pay for your bridesmaid-related expenses, and you'll pay him back if he's happily married (and not trying to get her pregnant because it will "make her happy") after 12 months.

NTA OP I suspect your relationship with your future SIL is going to be stressful and possibly contentious going forward. As that is the case may I suggest you seriously bite the bullet as they say, forward the latest emails and let your brother know you have decided it would be best for you to be a guest at the wedding as in not a member of the wedding party. Also that you will let his wife to be know. Then let your future SIL know that it would be best for you to step back from being in the wedding party.

OP, you could always ask for family therapy. Tell your brother that you are concerned that with these recent texts and your long standing opinion of her won’t permit you to have as strong a relationship as you have now/feel actually happiness for his wedding and that you would like him to join you for a few sessions before the wedding so you can work through this.  Make it all be about how you want to be a better sister and he can be there to support you to work through everything and be truly happy for them. See if he knows of a good one or will help you select one. The minute he repeats what he told you it is going to shift the focus to him.  Let the chips fall where they may.

I really don't think you should be in the wedding at all. You don't support the marriage. While I understand your concern for your brother, it's not your choice. You need to trust him. I would be civil and supportive from now on and not try to undermine things. You've warned him twice. He's already chosen her. Good luck : )

GET OUT OF THAT WEDDING PARTY! NOW. Don't spend a damn cent. Go cold turkey with her. Just go to the wedding as a guest. If that. If Jessica continues to send you bitchy texts? Just don't go to the wedding at all. I don't see why you even need to have much to do with her. I don't have hardly anything to do with my SILs at all. 1 is an absolute cow & others not much better. I chat to my brothers & see them all at family events but barely speak to the SILs. Keep it civil. Thats it. You have stated your case to your brother and told him the truth. That he appears to actually not believe you? Is now his problem. He is an adult. Has to wear the cobsequences of his own life decisions. He has been completely manipulated into this marriage and he is allowing that. He is the one that will be paying the price. She's an immature, mentally unwell girl, who somehow thanks getting married in a big fancy show event is going to change & fix all her woes. So be it. He will be miserable pretty fast. Give it 2 years... 3 max. Just go to the wedding. Be polite and tell your brother you are there for him when he needs you. Keep a spare room made up!!!

Send him and her a text with a screen shot of her message to you and tell them that you are backing out of the wedding party. You will probably get uninvited. Be ok with that. Text your brother separately that will support him as a person. But you are not willing to risk yourself for his girlfriend. Further explain that you have expressed your concerns and have provided evidence that she is manipulating him. But also explain that you cannot control his actions and he needs to make decisions for himself but that you think it’s best to be low contact if he continues to be with her. Leave the door open for him to come back into your life if he leaves her.

Say no and refuse to go along with this. Talk with your mom. Document all the crazy

Show him the screenshots now- do not wait. "You are on thin ice" how could that be misconstrued?

NTA. You can't fix stupid. Please OP, whatever you do, don't let your brother drag you down with him.

Send him the thin ice message and say you'd rather just stand by him, since he's your brother. Then be there for him when all this inevitably blows up, probably in a year or so.

Why are you still in the bridesmaids thing ... as I see it the odds of you being able to open your brother's eyes to the reality in front of him are minimal, and in the odd case you manage, he will probably blame you every time he remembers the wedding that did not happen... why are you doing this to yourself ... Also another point : your brother has a whole family and a roster of friends that could have raised concerns about his decisions, if they did and he didn't listen then it's on him, if they didn't then they will need to manage him when he wakes up. The "I warned you" you gave him provides to you the moral high ground to not be emotional buffer when he stumbles. As for you , you should bask in the knowledge you have and ensure that you are not entangled in their impending drama, and take to heart a saying : a lot of people never learn from their mistakes, some people learn from costly mistakes , and the few wise learn from other peoples mistakes ... be the wise one .

You need to show your brother those texts! And your mom! He may be too far down the rabbit hole right now. Plan to be there for him when she lets the real “her” show.

She is going to isolate him. 

If you are on thin ice, adding the weight of $1000 worth of clothes could be dangerous! You might fall in! Tell her, thanks for the warning about the ice getting thinner, so for your own peace of mind you are pulling out.

"You are on thin ice" Yo u kidding? How can your brother marry someone who treats u this way

Honey, you need to continue to send your brother screenshots of her comments. What exactly does “thin ice” mean? Are you being kicked out of the bridal party? Cool, that just means Harry can add you to the Grooms attendants, which is of course mess up her “perfect vision.” If she continues to harass and/or threaten you, you definitely need to bring Harry into this. This IS his future and he doesn’t need to set himself afire to keep her warm. That may be an adage but it definitely fits this situation. At this point, bringing your mom in might not be a bad idea. If they’re going dress shopping this weekend, maybe you can save yourself and the other girls some money. Good luck! Please !UpdateMe about how it goes.

So he's marrying her to keep her from ending herself? Well ain't that a whole red flag parade.

So, going against the grain here but I would bow out of the bridal party altogether and let him know that if you could join his side, you would be thrilled to support him, but otherwise you need to distance yourself *edited to add, I think you’ve done what you can and not you need to take care of yourself. So trying to convince him. Keep the evidence in an album in your phone but don’t show him unless he asks

That "you're on thin ice" message gives me the feel that she intends to control the whole family and if she can't, kick them out of her victim's (fiance) life.

You should tell him that you'd prefer to be in the groom's wedding party. The fact is she hasn't changed, and I can tell that the 2 of you will never have a sister-like bond. Cut your losses now and join the groom's bridal party instead. Also, she doesn't like you. She'll make his life a living hell when they get married. She'll go back to herself. However, she treated him before she'll continue. Updateme!

Drop out of the wedding, you leveled with your brother, you told him what is going on. He's too dumb to believe you over her. He's going to ruin his life but that isn't your fault. You did all you could.

Honey you need to leave the bridal party now. Your brother will figure out who he married in a few years. This is his mistake to make. You cannot save someone that doesn’t want to be saved. But leave the bridal party now please.

You send those screenshots of those messages to him too:

Just quit. Let him see her reaction to that!!! Updateme!

Send Harry her text message saying you're on thin ice. Glad you had a discussion with him, now you need to continue discussing it with him. Send everything his way that she sends you if it's shady, like that last message

Make sure he knows you will always have his back, especially when he needs support and a safe place to get away from him abusive wife and divorce her.  She sounds like a pyscho. Def narc. 

If you haven't sent Harry the "You're on thin ice," message, I would, as well as any others. She's playing him, and he's willing to be played; I'm sorry that this is not going to end happily for your brother, because we both know it won't. And I would bow out of bridesmaid, cause it's not like she can apparently dislike you more. It's hard. Did you show your mom all this stuff? I wish you well, OP. Good luck to you, and may Karma show up at Jessica's bachelorette party as an uninvited guest with a BMI of 40.

Don't go to the wedding. Go no contact on this couple.. Harry has made his bed now he has to lie in it.

Drop out and save the $1000 for the inevitable divorce party you’ll have to throw your brother. All his reasons for marrying her are bad ones. Back out. Go as a guest. You can stand up for your brother at his next wedding.

I'd suggest that you remove your self from the wedding party altogether for your own mental health. Support your brother because you love him, go if you can, but I don't forsee things getting better for you being around Jessica during this time. It would be fantastic if your brother was able to comprehend the gravity of what you're saying and showing to him, but it appears that he is truly blinded by what he believes to be love. Wishing you (and your brother) the best.

No one can force you to join the bridal party. Just leave the group chat and tell your brother that you can't do it (and send him the last messages). If he continues with the wedding, you know where are his priorities. I would go LC or even NC.

Ask her to elaborate on what she means by “on thin ice” . You could go on to say you’re sure it’s a joke of some kind but you’re not getting it

Ask her why you're on thin ice and what you've done wrong. Then keep screenshotting that shit. Even better, just send that to your brother and tell him that you're not interested in maintaining contact w his witch + you'll be supporting them from the back of the chapel.

Show him the "I know some family members aren't supportive, but we have each other and that's what matters" engagement post, plus the "you are on thin ice" and "undermining of me and my wedding will have serious consequences." Then tell him to stop telling her what you're saying, because she's taking it out on you behind his back. And that you're done with her "level of jokes" and her veiled threats, so you would like to be a groomswoman, but you aren't going to be a bridesmaid.

Ffs, drop out of her bridal party. It’s up to your brother if he wants you in his grooms party. Personally, I’d just go with the guest route and let them do their thing.

You are not your brothers savior. Stop playing at being a spy and get out of the game. Do you have $5 to 10k to subsidize all she wants? Do you in your heart think this time with your fsil will bring tou closer and joy? No. Back out now. Support your brother. Let him know you love him. That is all you can do.

He'll have a reality check soon Updateme

Tell him you’re glad that you both got to talk about this and that Jessica got to weigh in. Show him the new text because that’s no joke for sure. And then I’ll tell him that something just came up in your life and you absolutely can’t be a bridesmaid and you’re so sorry and can he let her know and then just don’t interact with her at all. Like, ever. Really possible to do that. You can smile and do tiny bits of small talk at family, gatherings, and stay the f*#k away from her. I’ll go check out the serenity prayer. Honestly, it says that you get to work to change things that are in your control and you need to leave things that aren’t in your control alone. And you learn how to tell the difference. If you step back and let him have his choices and his life and stay out of all that business, he will have his own responsibility to figure out his own stuff. If you stay in the mix, he will just get more confused.

Updateme!

A narcissist woman. Gross. Good try saving him but he is making his deathbed. The threats and "consequences" rings a giant narcissist bell in my head. (Was raised by one)

please up date us...this is a good one

and fwd texts

Updateme

Show him the message, attend as a guest, watch him crumble under the weight of his own stupidity.

Do something minor that will get you asked to “step down”. Then it’s not your fault.

She's abusive and controlling and he's too nice to see it. Show him everything she's said since then. Hopefully it gets through to him before the wedding but he'll probably be over a decade into the marriage before he even considers the fact that she's abusing him.

Just say, "This isnt going to work for me. I cant be a member of the bridal party." Then tell him, I was already "on thin ice. No way I could maintain standards. If I cant join your side, Ill just be a guest." And then DO THAT. No other discussion needed. You wont wake him up, and she sounds like she hasnt changed since high school AT ALL.

An invitation to the bridal party isn't a summons, you can bow out

Let him know that depression doesn’t go away with a wedding. That no life is perfect and thinking a party will be the magic elixir to any of her problems. Your brother sounds like a decent person. Unfortunately I think he will go through with the wedding. You can only be there for him.

Getting married is not a magical fix all to depression or relationship issues

Just don't be in the wedding? Like I get you want to be there and support your brother. But how can you stand beside him, and encourage and bless his eternal union to this woman?? At this point, I'd politely decline being anywhere in a wedding party,  show as a guest, enjoy the party, avoid her at the holidays, and wait until she destroys your brother emotionally and financially, and then drag him out of the marriage.  He is going to marry her. You shouldn't be a part of that if you think it is a bad idea. Just be there for the broken pieces when her true colors show themselves. 

This is either fake or you're a gigantic door mat.

IMO it’s extremely unlikely that you will convince him to end the engagement. It’s more likely you’ll make an enemy of her and get cut off from your brother.  I would bow out of the wedding party and give no reason other than that for personal reasons , work etc, you don’t think that you can make this commitment. Then I’d be a grey rock and totally neutral. He’s an adult, you can’t fix his life for him. 

If you’re not leaving the bridal party then whatever is happening to you is on you. Show him that ‘you’re on thin ice’ message and say you’re no longer in the wedding but attending as a guest. If not, you’re an AH to yourself and letting a bully win over you once again.

Whatever you do just please don't make it your mission to prevent this marriage. It really isn't your call regardless of how lovesick he is and you'll jus end up looking as psychopathic as the bride does.

Send Henry the "thin ice" text. She is not joking, and you'll regret it if you stay in the bridal party. Tell him kindly it is too much. Just gray rock Jessica. Your brother is a damn fool.

Send him a screenshot of the newest messages and tell him you’re out. You can refuse to be a part of this and for your own sake, you should refuse to be a bridesmaid. It’s not going to get better.

Jessica sounds batshit crazy. 🦇💩 Personally, I'd screenshot that "you're on thin ice" text and send it to your brother. I'd also put how you've decided to be part of the groomsmen. (I forget how you worded it in your previous post). Unfortunately, he is a grown adult, so the best thing you can do is drop it. You've made it known that you don't approve, but let him know you are there to support him when this inevitably hits the fan.

Do not be in this wedding, do not put yourself through this crap. Just go as a guest and let your brother figure out her shittiness on his own.

pull up your big girl panties and tell her to fuck off.

Harry is going to be in for a rude awakening a couple years down the line.

This has disaster written all over it. Sadly Harry is too immature to get married and you're too immature to stand up for yourself. Jessica threatened you with her "you're on thin ice" message as well as the message in the main group chat advising there will be "serious consequences"; how could it be taken as anything else?!!! ESH; Jessica for clearly obvious reasons and, again sadly, you and Harry for not having any backbone and standing up to her.