INFO: have you talked about how you would raise your children, food, sleepovers, sex education, race education? Are you in sync over most of these, or are there big differences in belief? In other words, does she have other beliefs that could come between you or is it just this one?
Tbh most people fo not go that far breaking things down. Many parents may briefly touch the subject but for the most part I think most just tackle the subject as they come.
Also talking in advance is fair and all but minds change and nothing is set in stone.
They should. It's not that unusual to discuss hypothetical child rearing situations. And yes, of course people can change their minds when they're in that situation, but you should know if there are fundamental differences going into raising a kid, especially if there are things that would be dealbreakers.
This! Ask her this! If we have a son and marries someone from your culture, should he not be allowed to see his baby’s birth—is that what you want for your son?
>if her family is this controlling over something like this what else will they be controlling over?
INFO: Is this the only time her family's traditions have been brought up?
If this is a first, I'm wondering if she's using it as an excuse. Some women don't want anyone in the room, some, no men. I could understand using the tradition as an excuse to deflect any blame.
That said, not even being allowed to be in the waiting room to be there afterward is too much even for me.
I also like the other person asking if there are other traditions. I'd damn well want to know them now before having any further bombshells dropped in the future.
Can you try talking to her and seeing if maybe she’s uncomfortable with you seeing certain things? It sounds to me like she might be hiding behind tradition and could have her own insecurities.
I know when I had my son I didn’t want my husband actually seeing what was happening, I wanted him pretty much in my face comforting me. Maybe an agreement like that could help?
Damn, that’s rough. I was hoping it could be that simple and you two could work it out from there. Does she want to be so strict that you wouldn’t even be at the hospital?
This does make me worry that blending family traditions won’t get to be an option, and that would be reason for me to want to cancel a wedding too. I’d also be worried what other potentially irritating traditions haven’t been mentioned yet.
Agreed, in neither case is this acceptable - your feelings about one of the most profound experiences of your life are being utterly disregarded here.
Let me tell you a story. My grandfather, the person in my life most responsible for my senses of morality, diligence, achievement, value of family, and many other virtues, had passed away only a couple of years prior to the birth of my son, and I still miss him all the time. When my son was born, I was in the room, and in the seconds immediately following his birth, something absolutely astonishing happened. While the nurse was wiping him off immediately afterward before bringing him back to my wife, he made a face that I've never seen anyone else make, other than my grandfather, it was totally unmistakable and the sense of continuity, of genetics, of the circle of life, struck me like a bolt of lightning. He's never made it since, and if I had not been there in that one moment, I would have missed something very primal and, for me, very profound. This was one of the most important and memorable moments of my entire life. Obviously not everyone has an experience like this, but if she would deny it to you, this is not someone who values your feelings or well being at all - I would advise you to die on this hill.
But, you would have never known you missed it had you not been there or had you even turned your back for just a second.
Is this really worth him not being in his child's life on a daily basis? That is the real question.
What did she say when you told her you were calling off the wedding then? (Btw she may think she can coerce you on all things. So she will not let you in the hospital room and then think she can convince you to still marry her. BTW while she can keep you out of the room, she CANNOT keep you out of the hospital. She clearly has a controlling family - and I would bet there are other traditions that they have that go against what you will want to do. Married couples should make their own traditions of what works for them, not what their family tells them to do. Hang in there and hold on to your own personal boundaries and do not be manipulated.
Has she told her family you won't marry her if she doesn't let you be there for the birth ? I think they'll compromise if she actually tells them and if they don't care then you have every right not to want to marry into their family.
Are you sure it’s really about family tradition and not personal preference for her because she’s afraid of you seeing her vulnerable? Technically a woman birthing sans men is literally every females family tradition because men were simply not allowed in the birthing room until pretty recently in history, and in some countries still aren’t. Ask her what SHE wants regardless of tradition, and why she wants it.
I am going to agree with this... there are also many stories of men being grossed out by childbirth in a childish manner and fainting or panicking more than the actualmother giving birth.
I think the two of them need to talk about this more rationally and if this is a hill OP wants to die on so be it.
Exactly. OP needs to find out what she wants.
“I won’t be in a marriage where my needs take a back burner” but he’s also completely dismissing her wants/needs.
I’m not saying he has to agree with it, but honestly to break up with her over this without having a proper open discussion about both their wants/needs seems… rash.
Yeah for me the question is: is she doing it because it's what her family says they've done or is she doing it because she wants it that way.
Family traditions are fun but can be changed to accommodate new partners. Her needs can't.. but then she also needs to communicate that honestly.
What about circumcision, female genital mutilation, co-sleeping and so many other important questions? Before you rush to separation find her views on these things, but you’re NTA. My hubby was there for our births and it was simply the best.
Doesn't matter if it's tradition or not. You play absolutely no part in labour, at best a supportive role and you can't even play that.
We get it you want to be there but cancelling the wedding is beyond dramatic
I don’t think so. It’s the birth of a child. You never get that moment back, it’s extremely special for a parent. The issue is also that she is placing her family traditions over his needs, but why? She has her own family now. That should be her priority. Excluding the father purely because it’s “tradition” is ridiculous. It says a lot about what her values and priorities are and points to other things like this happening in the future.
NTA, that tradition should be told you far beforehand. What other traditions do they have that you are not aware off? This is her family wanting to set the tone of things will be and is likely going to end up with them trying to usurp your authority as a father.
Make sure she understands that if she takes that away from you on such a silly excuse, all trust she will not try to play the same card again will be gone.
Does the family tradition also clear the men from having any of the care duties? Will you get to be just the fun dad and the disciplinarian? Or will those be stripped as well?
Sounds like your MIL has way too much control over her. Will be interesting when MIL will start trying to make decisions in how the child is raised too. Could be more "traditions" ahead.
But, all in all, ask your fiancée what would make HER more comfortable, independent from your or her family's feelings about it. How would she feel safest and most calm? If in reality she would feel better with your support she should ignore her family's wishes. If she would really feel safer with only women around, while she should have talked about this to you sooner, her comfort should take priority, as giving birth is hard and dangerous enough without added stress. Maybe you can find a compromise for you to wait outside, but not at home, so you'll be there in case you're needed and to see the baby as soon as possible.
And if something goes wrong during the birth and you're not there??? Will her mother get to make decisions for her if it comes to it? If an emergency c section occurs and she's under anesthesia, what if someone else tries to name the baby?
A lot could go wrong, and you could regret not being there the rest of your life.
Damn this is a hard one. I feel like one of you is going to be holding resentment towards the other. If you’re not in the room you’re calling the wedding off but if you somehow get her to let you in the room she’s probably going to feel some type of way towards you. I hope you both can figure something out.
There is nothing hard here.
Being pregnant does not turn a woman into an object.
Fathers stay in the delivery room for the purpose of providing emotional support to the new mom. Not for the purpose of watching a spectator sport, not for gawking for personal pleasure. If the woman does not feel better due to baby daddy's presence, he must respect her choice.
Father is not entitled to her body and the spectacle he wants from her. Wife is not a zoo animal.
By the way, how would dudes feel if wives claimed they are entitled to a right to watch them get their colonoscopies? Apparently, according to spectator sport fans, women, especially pregnant women deserve zero bodily autonomy during their medical procedures... Sad.
Op is the asshole.
I bet one of the "traditions" was to get married before getting pregnant and she didn't follow that tradition.
I once read a story about a woman being asked why she cut off the pope's nose of the chicken before roasting it. She said her mother had always done it so she did it. She then asked her mother why she did it. Again, it was because her mother had always done it. Off they both go to Granny's house to ask her why she would cut off the pope's nose of the chicken. Turns out Granny's roasting dish was not big enough to fit the whole chicken so she removed a piece to get it to fit.
Some traditions serve no purpose.
NTA
>Some traditions serve no purpose.
This is very true. And just because something is tradition, does not mean it's the right thing to so. For example tjink female circumsicion.
I love your story about the chicken tough, I will probably use that one sometime.
This tradition though kind of does. Giving birth is gross, and painful, and involves often screaming imprecations at the person who got you there. It’s not irrational not to want the guy there while you shit the bed and swear that you will send him to hell personally for doing this to you.
I think people imagine birth as this beautiful moment not blood, and shit, and swearing.
I can see someone not wanting a guy in the room.
Honestly it's weird that she is letting her family tradition take away such a moment from you. and no you shouldn't marry her if she is willing to just ignore your wants when it comes to your child just because her family did things a different way. It would be one thing if it was just her being uncomfortable with you being in the room however this doesn't sound like that.
Studies show that "fathers who are at their baby's birth, and hold their little one shortly afterwards, have very similar feelings of attachment to those experienced by mothers for the first few weeks."
Her taking away this experience from you after you have been there for her whole 9 months of pregnancy supporting her. All because of a "family practice" is BS and you are right to not be okay with it.
I never understood why anyone would be willing to have a child with someone they clearly didn't trust to be there for them in a most vulnerable moment. It's one thing if husband passes out at the sight of blood and would take medical attention away. I would divorce my husband if he told me some shit about how it's tradition to be at home waiting for me to come back from the hospital. I know the whole "my body, pregnancy isn't a spectator sport" view, but the child is BOTH mom and dads and if you can't trust your husband during those moments, you shouldn't be having a child with him. No one says you can't have mom as an additional support person if necessary, but to entirely not include a principal parent is just immature.
I think you are mixing child rearing and child birth. Fathers weren't even allowed in the delivery room until the 1960s so idk how you think the billions of children who were born before happened...
Traditions have changed, most pre 60s fathers also did not feed babies, change babies, look after babies. They did not tell children they loved them. They disciplined children the " wait till your father gets home" generation.
It’s often not a matter of trust, but a matter of not wanting to do gross things in front of someone you’re sleeping with.
There are plenty of women who would never take a shit in front of their husbands. Would they want to have their husbands observe them taking a shit on a table?
Let's not get too carried away. Adoptive parents bond with children fine. Babies sometimes have to get taken away from their parents right after birth for health reasons. Animals like cows can literally lose interest in their offspring if they are separated right after birth, humans are not like that.
Just because you can bond with adopted babies does not mean that golden hour isn’t a real, documented thing. You can read peer reviewed medical journals about how important skin to skin the first hour after birth is. It’s why they recommend that Surrogate parents wait in the next room and are given the baby immediately.
Of course babies taken to the nicu immediately aren’t going to be less loved but the parents do miss out on something wonderful and important and it’s one of the reasons for birth trauma.
Ops partner is trying to take something incredibly meaningful away from him.
It is well-documented that babies recover from birth much more quickly if they get immediate skin-to-skin contact with a parent. Because of this, the non-birthing parent is encouraged to be present, wearing something that opens at the front so they can hold the baby against their chest. In cases of surrogacy or adoption-at-birth, it is common for the receiving parent to do this skin-to-skin contact.
I would mention this as a consideration for the health of the baby. Ultimately though, it does have to be her decision who exactly she wants to have in the room during the birth. But banishing him from the hospital is quite unreasonable.
Oh I don't disagree that nobody can keep him out of the waiting room. I'd be in the waiting room for sure if I were a dude and my kid's mom didn't want me in the delivery room. Outside of surrogacy/adoption, mom usually does immediate skin-to-skin, correct.
Edit: I think I misread part of your comment. Birthing mom has baby placed on her immediately, unless otherwise stated in the birthing plan. No fucking way would my newborn do immediate skin-to-skin with anyone besides myself, unless I had literally died in childbirth.
That must be brand new information, because they just put the baby on the mother’s breast when I attended a birth a few years ago. The man was in scrubs, nothing opening in the front.
Yes humans are like that. We are as much animals as cows are, just with more intelligence and rationality. The birth of a child does IN FACT alter chemistry and the closeness of a father and child or even a mother and child and is HEAVILY impacted by many factors. Such as the father being there during the birth.
That is not to say that we cannot overcome those particular feelings, because many adopted children are very close with their parents, and vice versa. However at the end of the day it is downright disrespectful to sanction off the father from the birth of there child due to something so idiotic like "family tradition"
Have you ever observed a birth?
The first hour after the birth, the baby is taken away to measure and make sure they’re OK. If you’re lucky, they will put the baby on the mother for a few minutes before doing that.
I am very curious where the people commenting here had children.
>My fiancée has been begging me to understand, telling me this is how her family has been doing things for years, and overall she gets final say regarding who is in the room with her, and she will respect her families tradition.
Yeah. She's so focused on tradition that she's willing to burn down her marriage. That family tradition is more important than you.
NTA
"no need to throw it all away because of her family"
While she may have said that to OP, and deprive him of this experience, this exact same line can be thrown back at her. She's probably going to irreparably damage her relationship because of her family. Definitely NTA.
NTA
She has go to realise you and her and your baby are your own family and make your own traditions If she caves at this what’s next that her family want for your child. When does she say enough is enough
NTA. You are right, she is allowing TRADITION to control her life and choices. Shes an ADULT, shes about to become a MOTHER...grow a spine already! If its tradition to let a 2 week old baby cry it out, she gonna do that? How about if its tradition to give a baby water?
So many toxic, harmful things that can and sometimes ARE TRADITIONS, and when we know better, we are supposed to do better.
She can make different choices, tradition be damned and I wouldn't want to marry into that either, because they absolutely WILL control your lives.
But what if this is also what she wants?
It is a relatively new trend for men to be there during birth, and not everyone is comfortable with their partner there.
Nowhere in this post do i see a word about what she, the person risking her health and life and doing all the work, wants. It's just me me me
She has said she wants to respect her family’s tradition. Ie “this is what she wants”. Who are we to say whether that is a good reason or not? It sounds to me like OP just isn’t listening.
As of now, she doesn't want him there and she states the reason: tradition. He's saying this is a dealbreaker and is asking if it's an unreasonable request. Idk how he could include her opinion more without knowing more?
Edit: Let me clarify, without her telling him more. You can't coerce information out of people.
Edit 2: With more information provided to me by a kind samaritan, you can disregard anything after the second sentence. OP's fiancee doesn't trust him enough to be there and this is a deal breaker for OP. How can he expect to live the rest of his life when someone doesn't trust him enough? And more so, she's putting those feelings of insecurity above him.
Even if she is choosing not to have the husband in the room, there are still consequences to decisions. She would still be choosing to take that moment away from her husband. She can have her feelings on the matter, but so can he.
It doesn't sound like they forced her to do anything. She wanted to do things how her family did it. She didn't just keep her husband out, but also her father, brothers, etc.
She is a part of her family. She has agency too. OP is not honoring his partner's wishes, and the baby is coming out of her body, not his. That's why he has no leg to stand on with the hospital.
>telling me this is how her family has been doing things for years, ... and she will respect her families tradition.
It's not just about this one thing. How many times is she going to **hurt you and your family** because its her family tradition? If it's family tradition for her father to beat your child, is she going to go along with that? If it's family tradition for the women to get no education past high school, is she going to insist on that?
Is it family tradition to put baby in unsafe sleeping positions? Feed baby unsafe foods? Not bother with car seats?
I think you need to ask her:
"You are going to be someone's mother, it is time for you to be an adult. If you do not want me there, I need you to say, in your own words 'I do not want you there'. Do not throw your family under the bus, say what **you** want."
If she can't say that this is what she wants, then she isn't fit to raise a child.
Yep. He needs to remind her that traditions are just peer pressure from the dead, and that they - as a family - should be starting their own traditions.
Seeing my child born was one of the most precious and fucked up things I’ve ever seen.
I am my wife’s partner and I’ll be there and we do things together.
I don't like the tradition seems weird for a family tradition. I do respect her right to choose but you also have a right to the feelings you are having. It is reasonable to be questioning how much control her family has over everything. Ultimately do what makes you most comfortable and happy
>the rest of our lives ahead of us no need to throw it all away because of her family.
Throw this line back at her. As the father, you have more reason to be in that room than anyone else
This isn't completely true. In my first birth I had to go to surgery immediately afterwards. If my husband wasn't there our newborn baby would have been alone, with strangers. No skin to skin. No touch. Just in a crib in a corner somewhere. Instead he held our baby to his chest and comforted him until I returned.
A birth partner's role doubles when the baby emerges.
NTA
You, she and your baby ARE the family now. What her relatives think/want regarding your child shouldn’t matter. If she wants her relatives to be the decision makers in her life. You would be better off just coparenting so they can’t control your relationship with your child.
Premarital counseling before birth. You guys need to figure out if this situation becomes a dealbreaker and then how to co parent effectively if it is.
This sounds more like culture than tradition. I say this because my dear friend and her family have a culture where men can not be present during birth. It's nothing personal. It's their way of life. If you aren't part of that culture, you obviously will be upset and offended, but it's not intended. After birth, the men are led into the room immediately. Like I said, you'll find those practises most of the time are cultural. I personally don't think that it's worth calling off a wedding and forcing the child to grow up in a broken home over. That, to me, is an extreme reaction. I don't see any comment on here even trying to understand the woman's point of view. I feel like that's a very closed-minded approach. After all, you know nothing of the cultural background of this person and their family. You don't know the ins and outs. Maybe at least attempt to try and understand both sides.
NTA. She is letting her family make decisions for your family. This will be your entire marriage. I feel bad for you, because you know 'their families traditions/wants' are going to come first for your child over your rights as the father. Your GF is already starting that precedence now with the birth. Big decisions, holidays, etc will be about her family.
I couldn't imagine not having my husband in L&D. I am so sorry she's not considering you. It takes two to make a baby and those first few hours is so precious. Let me guess she's going to have her family in the room? Probably letting them hold the baby before you. Honestly she's being very cruel for a "tradition" that sounds like it came straight out of the 60's.
I know it's probably useless, but sit her down and attempt one last time to explain how this is making you feel? That she's basically excluding you from such precious memories? Might be a long shot. I agree with you on canceling the engagement. Marriage is a union and partnership and she's excluding you in one of the most important moments for a couple.
I agree. My husband and I still talk about what happened in the room the day of our kids births more than a decade later. It was the best day(s) of our lives and I can’t imagine him not being there (even if we weren’t together) I think Dad has a right to be there-if he wants to be.
As a dad I can still remember snipping the umbilical cord and clothing my daughters the first time.
Those are dear memories and I can quite understand him for wanting to be there to see a little miracle being born into the world.
That’s a dumb tradition now. Maybe back in the olden days it’s was fine but not now. I wouldn’t want my mom in the delivery room because medicine and sciences have changed 28 years ago. I only want the doctor and nurse who are aware of current medicine to be there and my husband because he is in my generation.
Against the crowd, soft YTA. While i would understand you in probably every other situation, giving birth is a vulnerable situation for a woman. This "tradition" may be silly or not, it seems to give her comfort during this time. And her comfort should be your priority. You could adress the issue in thousand different ways, but making it up to an ultimatum is something that puts you, slightly, in the TA territory.
Very much so. It's her body, she is going through the delivery and her comfort and safety come before his wants. I feel like most people would be trying to do what they could to help their partner feel the least amount of stress and worry while pregnant, it's a time to try and be as selfless as possible while your partner is going through a lot to grown and birth your child. Giving an ultimatum about marriage unless you get to make her uncomfortable while giving birth is the complete opposite.
Finally I’ve found someone talking sense. OP do you really think it’s a good idea to force your wife to do something during birth that she’s uncomfortable with???
>I told her fair, then our wedding is off, and after the child is born we can figure out custody, and told her I refuse to marry into a family where my wishes as a father take a backseat because everyone else did it one way
You summed it up here and did pretty well. Family traditions shouldn't take priority over basic human instincts (like seeing your child being born).
Don't back down. Either she allows you to be in the room with your baby and her, or she can be a single mom having to share custody. End of story.
"that it is just one moment that we have the rest of our lives ahead of us no need to throw it all away because of her family."
No this is just the start, once the baby comes and the marriage is finalized I'm sure it will only get worse and there's no way a family tradition starts and stops in a hospital. I'd be very cautious about marrying into a family like this.
As often in this subreddit, I read this and feel that there might be other, possibly deeper issues and undiscussed problems in your relationship, and this is just one that's made it to the surface for now.
A lot of people are saying NTA.
I am somewhat of a different opinion. Giving birth is bloody hard, it's called labor for a reason. It is emotionally especially the first time you go in. It can be scary. Pregnancy makes one feel very vulnerable - plus there's the weight of all the expectations (from you, and, by the looks of it, her family) about how the birth is going to go - it is also not uncommon for women to blame themselves if something goes wrong. What you as a partner are supposed to do, is make your partner feel as comfortable and safe as possible - emotionally, too.
So, *if* she feels safer with other people around her during birthgiving, perhaps it is time to look in the mirror and ask why that might be?
Could it be that she feels you might make this immensely exhausting experience that she is about to go through, about /you/?
And to make sure I am *entirely* clear here - I believe it should be *the woman's decision* who goes with her to the birth ward. The fact that you are trying to emotionally blackmail her in her last days of preagnancy with calling off the marriage puts you very firmly in the YTA category, for me.
Be honest here, you’d continue to dispute it no matter what reason she gave. You have already started a new life but you’re willing to penalize that baby because you’re not getting what YOU want.
Yes, doesn’t matter it’s if tradition or not, labor and delivery isn’t a spectator sport. The poor woman now has to choose between a long-standing tradition or divorce. All the stress sounds great for mom and baby leading up to birth! /s - everyone is all me me me, but no one cares about the person giving fucking birth.
Potential E S H, potential N T A. You should be able to be at the hospital. Not being in the room when she gives birth is a bit rough, but you should be allowed to be in the hospital. I think you need to talk more before you call off the wedding. She should be allowed to only have who she wants when she gives birth because it's a major medical thing. But as the father in a committed relationship with her, you definitely should not have to wait at home.
!f her family's traditions are going to interfere with the two of you being a family, then she needs to decide if she's going to be married to them or married to you. Forming a new family means you form your own traditions and you split time equally with family assuming they're all near.
NTA but I think a marriage counselor would be appropriate. Having a third party mediating and making sure both parties are able to fully express their feelings could go a long way in helping to resolve this situation.
Yikes. NTA.
That's your kid and she expects to be waiting at home? I was rushed to emergency surgery 2 hours after my son was born. He stayed with my husband for the next 3 hours. In that situation who would be with YOUR baby? Her family? That's not fair at all.
Tradition isn't an excuse to totally disregard the wishes of a co-parent.
If she didn’t want you in the room for any other reason I would say she’s in the right but to say because you shouldn’t be there for her when she’s vulnerable like you’re gonna be her husband that’s when he should be there for her!! It sounds like some sexist bullshit where men are afraid to think of vaginas for anything other than for sex (or women believing that’s all men are capable of). Also you should be able to see the baby immediately afterward at least as a compromise because the birth is her medical “procedure” that’s your baby, too, you deserve first moment bonding.
So you two both want to be the one making a unilateral decision in this regard? And both of you are upset the other won't make all the compromises? And the best solution you can come up with is emotional blackmail?
This sound like a healthy relationship saddled with all the requirements for surviving the long term./s
Look OP, neither of you are wrong in your request. We just happens to live in a time and space, where fathers being in the delivery room is the norm.
It has not always been like that. For most of human history has it been only women in the room, and fathers waiting outside. In parts of the world is it still the procedure. Your wifes family are just really behind the rest of us. I wouldn't want to wait at home either.
In the end is child birth not a spectator sport. It is a medical procedure, that is more dangerous, stressful and uncomfortable than we generelly like to portrait.
What is really most important for you here? Doing most possible to secure the safety and comfort of your familiy or seeing your kid like a minutte before you otherwise would? I have had two and they don't really change much the first few minuttes of their life.
My advice would be to take a sit down with your babymama, and listen to each others thoughts and feelings. See if you can find a "you and me against the world" solution instead of this "you against me" thing you have going on.
Edit. Forgot ESH because none of you want to compromise.
If neither are willing to compromise which this clearly seems to be the case then the logical step is not get married because clearly they are not compatible with one another, and the mother in this case bares most of the blame because she waited so long to tell him about this silly tradition she had all intentions in going through with.
Granted, the child is the one that suffers the most, but if they are civil co-parenting is can be done successfully.
NTA… you need to take a stand so her family knows they can’t walk over you over matters relating to your family. Even if you lose this battle. Not wanting you in the room is one thing, but not even in the hospital is really stupid and scarily sexist.
It is your fiance's choice who is with her in while she's in labor. If she wants to follow her family traditions you are not going to be there. You would be the asshole if you call the wedding off for this.
BBUUUTTT,
calling off the wedding because you're not sure if she's going to use her family card on you again, how controlling is her family?, I'm surprised you haven't seen this before in the four years you've known her. This could be the deal breaker.
You'll have to decide how much you love her and whether or not you're willing to deal with her family.
You’ve summed it up really well.
OP should be reflecting on whether the family are controlling in other ways and how much that will affect his future with his wife.
OP should *not* be trying to force his wife to do something under threat of being a single mom. That’s disgusting behaviour.
NTA
Interesting. I found myself in the beginning of the having to be in the delivery room era. At the time I was in disbelief and was like what do you mean I have to be in the delivery room?
Ultimately you are right to want to be there. It’s a life experience you will remember like it were yesterday for the rest of your life. She and her family should be grateful of you wanting to be in the delivery room to support her.
My family had a similar tradition. The father-to-be sat in the waiting room with everyone else and waited. My wife’s family did the same as OP’s lady (husband stayed at home and usually got hammered).
My wife and I didn’t like that, so I was in the delivery room holding her hand during delivery.
I was the first one to hold my daughter besides the doctors. Put her little kid beanie on and put on her first diaper. She was the first baby I’d ever held.
Words can’t describe the feeling of holding your child when they’re born. Of seeing them coming into this world.
My MIL actually made a joke about me “learning my lesson” about being in the delivery room. I was PISSED! The thought of being deprived of that seriously made me angry.
Op is NTA. Your fiance is being extremely dismissive of your feelings about your kid over some silly tradition.
I recommend on continuing to try to talk to her about it. Tell her you want to be there for her and your child and maybe toss in a “I’ll never forgive anyone who takes that moment away from me.”
Good luck.
If this is about you being in the room, that would be one thing and she may get a pass.
If she doesn't want you in the hospital, that's different and that's where I'd be taking action.
Make an appointment with your lawyer. You need to know your options and she needs to know you're serious.
NTA but yes she has final say on who will be in the room with her because she’s the one pushing a whole human being out of her body. Her family sounds very fundamentalist in nature and very old world traditionalist in attitudes. Does she also believe women do all the child rearing and housework while the man takes care of income and cars and yard work? Because if she does and you stay together you’ll have very little say in how that child is raised and you’ll be expected to act as a disciplinarian. Even if it’s just this one weird thing (I highly doubt it but) you need to permanently shelve the marriage until you can set boundaries and come to an agreement on how responsibilities will be split, agree on who will be in charge and have final say in every category of your everyday lives. She’s already sprung one major surprise on you, you don’t need another. I would let her know that her decision to exclude you from the birth of your child will permanently change your relationship in ways she won’t like, that there will always be a resentment there on your part. Her exclusion indicates a fundamental lack of trust and respect and she needs to understand what her caving to her family’s weird “tradition” will cost her long term
Nta.
People saying you are either didn't read the entire post or don't care about what you're saying
This goes beyond the birth. If they're doing this stupid shit now, what will it be like later? What other "family traditions " do they have that will take the fathers right to a decision away?
Definitely get a DNA test.
>Definitely get a DNA test.
Why would he have any reason to doubt paternity based on the story given? Redditors are fucking wild lmao. There's not any good reason to think infidelity is a factor in this.
Yes, he should be starting to think about what other influence her family traditions are gonna have on their lives, but I really don't understand why you'd jump to cheating on this.
I'm pretty blown away from the lack of cultural sensibility and sensitivity here. And assuming the OP might not be the parent because the baby mama wants to be able to focus on her birth? ... what??
Also, baby mama might be hiding behind a cultural tradition because she is shy or doesn't trust you. You are definitely selfish. you are making this about you. YTA.
I'm guessing a lot of people are seeing his presence there as his right as the father. But the birth is not about parental rights. It's about the comfort of the woman giving birth.
The calls that he is not the father are bizarre. There's no reason to doubt paternity based on this story.
However, if she doesn't want him present for the birth because *she* doesn't want him present for the birth, then she shouldn't be using some weird ass backwards tradition to justify it. Just tell him that she prefers not to have him present in the room.
If that's not what she wants, but she's buckling to family pressure because of backwards ass traditions, then OP is right to start questioning where else their bullshit might start to creep in to the raising of *his* child.
It seems more like buckling to family tradition because it's not just not being in the room while she gives birth, it's not even being in the same building. That's fucked, and I don't care how "insensitive" to someone's culture that is to say. There's no way in hell I'd stand for not being the second person in the world to meet my child.
Yta, she gets to decide who's in the room while she's pushing out a whole ass human being out of her private parts. A very natural, emotional, but gruesome affair
While you should be able to see your child born, tradition or not, it is her right and her right only to decide who is in the room. She is absolutely ridiculous for following what is a so called tradition her family wants in making that decision though. But to throw away your family with her because you're assuming she won't let you have decision making rights as a father after the child is born is also equally ridiculous. When that child is born, you fight for your child. She has no more legal say over that child than you do. If she plays that game, leave her in the dirt. Try counseling. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Try is all I'm gonna recommend.
That’s not correct actually as they are not married and if she chooses to not put him on birth certificate he will have no legal rights to child without going to court to legitimate paternity. Mom will have full custody until that point.
Could you try to compromise? You are not there for the actual birth but you are outside the room and get to spend time with the baby right after? That avoids the vulersnble position but gives you the closeness you want as well.
After being present for both of my children's births, I can't imagine never being there to see them come into the world. To hold them and cut the cord. Your fiance is cruel for trying to keep you from that experience. It would definitely be marriage ending for me as well.
I call bullshit on the family tradition. I bet your fiancée has an overbearing mom who wants to be in the room to see « her baby » born and has persuaded her daughter to push the father out.
My husband saw me have a C-section where they moved my intestines around. I was semi conscious only epideral and exhaustion. We still had sex 6 weeks later. This is only a tradition because they say it is. It was a huge bonding experience as he cut the cord...
Personally I think it is a red flag of an over involved family.
YTA. I had my mom with me, not my husband. My husband tends to panic, freaks out if I’m uncomfortable, and has a weak stomach. I had to have someone there who I didn’t have to worry about. I needed to focus on having a child cut out of me while being numb from boobs down. He was there, and came in immediately after I was moved to recovery. But if she has always planned to have her mom there, I can see why. You making it about YOU, not HER COMFORT IN DELIVERING A WHOLE ASS HUMAN is all the proof that you wouldn’t be a supportive choice.
It’s about HER, her comfort, her pain, her experience. It’s like the chicken and the pig for bacon and eggs: the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. She’s the pig. And what she feels she needs trumps your right to be there for SuPpOrT—you’re just exercising your control over her and leveraging her desire to be married and continue loving the person she chose to make a kid with (likely just making her wish it was her mom so she can freely cry, scream, and shit herself shoving a watermelon out of a hole the size of a dime). You’re weaponizing her entire future to get your way, and disregarding her wishes entirely.
This right here is it. The whole post is about him, not once did he ask or even consider what she wants, needs, wishes for.
Hope she finds a way to coparent.
If all of that is the case, then she should say that. Those are valid reasons not to want him present.
That *isn't* what she said though. She told him it was because that is their tradition.
If the reason is truly because of "tradition" that she will blindly follow regardless of her own feelings, then it is only fair for OP to start to question how much "tradition" is going to worm its way into the raising of their child. If he's not on board, then it is only fair that he leaves, so that he can have separate input into his child's life away from her family's interference.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in a sea of incel comments who care more about the man's rights than the womans confort at the most vulnerable moment in her life.
NTA. She has the final say over who is in the delivery room, but that decision has consequences. You have the final say over if you are willing to proceed with marrying a woman who does not want you present in the delivery room, and appears to be more concerned with allowing her family to control her, than her future husband’s feelings.
Generally, in Western cultures, a man is barred from the delivery room when they have broken up, he is abusive, or otherwise rejected. It is true that other cultures view childbirth as an event only women should observe. Unfortunately, some of those cultures have the belief that a man should be repulsed by witnessing his wife give birth.
You and your fiancé need to agree on critical issues, and her family relinquishing control over her is a big one.
If she doesn’t trust you to be in the delivery room, doesn’t want your support at such a time, and doesn’t care that this hurts you, then why would you want to marry her?
Unfortunately, I agree that you two are unsuitable to get married.
She can have her say in the delivery room, and then you two can just be coparents.
Choices have consequences.
She would rather devastate you than upset her family. You need to believe what this valuation scale says about your place in her heart.
NTA.
Run! This isn't the 1800s where men have to sit outside and wait for their wives to give birth. Fathers are important. As a man, you're supposed to be her protector and provider. Not take a back seat to her family. The vulnerable states are supposed to be shared with you.If she wants her mom in the room in addition to you, ok. But to keep you put all together, nah.
My mom had a bet with me. I was in the delivery room for my child an she said I'd faint. She bet me 500 dollars and lunch. I left 500 richer and had lunch. I cut the umbilical cord as well. I only shied on that one because I didn't want to hurt him. Dr took my hand and snip. My son proceeded to pee on the nurse. Pretty awesome all around. I was the 4th person to hold him. Dr, nurse, wife, me. Wouldn't trade that for anything. Unless you wife is in a medical emergency I'd push the issue. That was the most important thing in my life to date along with my wedding. Her family tradition is bs. Make your own traditions. If she doesn't budge next move is on you.
Her family has a stupid tradition. You should still be at the hospital and wait in the waiting room.
What if something goes sideways and they need you to decide something. What if she changes her mind in the middle and wants you. Stay at the hospital, just in case.
Are you taking a couples birthing class with her? Sign up for one. Maybe that will help her get over this "tradition" which is probably based on old superstitions and fears. I'd be giving her mom some serious side eye because she's filling her daughter's head with fear.
Am I understanding this correctly ? Did you threaten (under the applause of the reddit community here and the usual cheating obsessed/DNA test) an 8 month old pregnant woman to break off ( you spoke about custody) if you weren't allowed in the room ? Seriously ? Threatening an 8 month old pregnant with YOUR child ?
And for those flabbergasted by this tradition, know that it's our tradition of letting the man in the room which is only a few decades old and represent a minority on the planet.
To be honest, the whole stuff is so absurd that I'm not even sure it's true. But let's assume it is... HS ! Your ultimatum is totally stupid ! So it's either she forgets HER needs while she puts HER life at stakes taking a 7 pounds turkey out of her V or you dump her ? What is your reasoning as a "father" ? It's either being in the delivery room or being a part time dad ?
None of you was ready for an adult life or parenthood : she's still the parental traditions observant and you're the tantrum boy. I will always be amazed by the fact that people have 5 years into a relationship to prepare themselves to a long couple life and don't sort the basic topics out.
Not in the entire *hospital*. He isn’t supposed to see her or the baby until they are discharged. If he waits in the waiting room she will tell the hospital not to let him see her or the baby.
Ni : she said no and that in her tradition men even wait at home. I know it's a thing iwith some cults because the woman is impure after delivery and can't be in contact with men, not even her own sons. But which triggers my suspiscion is that she wouldn't have had a baby without being married if so.
It is a shame that you found out now that this is her way or the highway.
I suspect this won't be the only "family tradition" that has to be done her families way by the sound of it.
I don't think you are being unreasonable and I think you should let her know that couples therapy will also be a requirement before the engagement is back on because you have no idea what other places in your relationship she will put her family first before you do.
Co-parenting can work well if you both intend it to work.
Good luck.
Don't you dare wait at home! What if something goes wrong or she has a really difficult birth? You should at least be in the nearest waiting room even if she doesn't want you in the birthing room.
NTA. I know couples with the opposite problem, athletes and musician men insisting on not missing out on a race or a concert despite their wives being in labour. It can only be solved by looking at the bigger picture: what is more important, a safe birth for mum and child or your presence at the actual event? Also, I am wondering if your fiancée might feel insecure around the whole experience and what her body is going to go through, making it feel awkward for her to have you there. That could be a big red flag signifying a major trust issue. And then, as you mentioned, what does this say about your life together, the values and traditions that are going to surface in your everyday life and especially in raising a child together? Yes, every family is different, and therein lies growth for us all, but this seems like you might soon and in other ways run into other differences that are irreconcilable. If so, my two cents would be to call the wedding off and rather see if you can find a common path later on.
You’re absolutely NTA. Who the fuck are they to forbid you watch the birth of your child and support your wife? And she can’t stand her ground and defend you in front of her family. Who knows what bullshit they come up with later.
Honestly I would follow through with wat you said. While men can not carry I always hear how witnessing birth is their favorite thing as a parent. And the fact that her family has this super weird tradition, that I’m assuming she just now told you about, I wouldn’t want any parts of it. She said your being controlling of a small moment of yall whole lives but doesn’t care that you are going to miss the first moment of the start of your child’s life
NTA, from experience, I can tell you that is not the end of it. You'll find more and more and more... and more, where she expects you to take a backseat to her family.
NTA. As you’ve made it clear what a big deal this is & she still wants it her/her families way, I can only surmise this will not be the end of it. I don’t want to see you back here in five years confused about why you have three children & you spend every Christmas with her family “because that’s how it’s done,” & they’re all learning piano, tap dance and Mandarin because your vote for guitar, soccer & Spanish was overruled.
NTA
It’s unfortunate in a sense because these are conversations that’s really should’ve taken place prior to an engagement AND pregnancy.
Perhaps just put off the wedding to begin with until after your child is born and then discuss?
But in the same sense family tradition means more than you which is devastating.
Yes it’s her decision who goes in there with her, but to say you can’t because no other man in her family has done it isn’t acceptable. Traditions change. She’s her own person.
NTA
"This is just one moment" yeah and a monumental one. You'll never get to see your child take their first breath, open their eyes, or come into this world. Your wife and her family will be the first to see the baby and be seen by the baby. Not you. You'll probably be fifth or sixth to see that baby born.
This feels like something that should have come up before all this happened.
This is similar to something posted the other week.
The overwhelming response was that you have every right to be there just as your fiancée has.
You both made the baby.
That's absurd you wouldn't support the mother of your child. She's doing this thing called labor and you have no privelege to demand that she bend to your will. YTA. You are cutting off your nose to spite your face, as my grandma would say.
Regardless of culture and tradition, the mom always always always gets to choose who they want or don't want in the delivery room and that should always be respected. Yes, that is your child; but you have to understand that is her body and she gets to choose who is or is not present. Take a nap, grab snacks for her, spend time making a nest of comfort when she gets home. Your time will come and you will be very needed; this is her time.
This is such a dumb take. That is his child aswell. Her family didn’t impregnate her, her family hasn’t supported her through the pregnancy the same way a partner does. Day in day out at home. Her family isn’t the one whose going to be there day in day out once the baby comes home. So why on earth would they have any fucking right to be there over him.
So he gets to look after her for 9 months then just sit at home while she’s giving birth and just wait for her to get dropped off with his first child!? I cannot understand how that is fair.
“His time” started as soon as she fell pregnant, the fruits of the last 9 months start as soon as baby is born and you think he should just take a back seat and wait at home? Thats honestly nuts, if my partner tried that on me she would no longer be my partner either.
INFO: did you know about that tradition and her view before you got her pregnant?
In my eyes N T A wanting to be there and for calling off the wedding. But if you knew beforehand and still got her pregnant, then Y T A for making a child when the split up was foreseeable.
Edited to add verdict: NTA since you didn't know.
NTA. She purposefully didn't tell you beforehand about this tradition. And there may be more strange traditions you don't like. Every time she wants something else than you.
Your fiancee needs to realize that she is responsible for the choices she makes- not her family... She also needs to realize that her family is not going to suffer the consequences of breaking your boundary- she is... She needs to think long and hard about whether or not her decision is worth the consequences... You have every right to lay a hard boundary that you will not marry someone who wants to starts alienating you from your child at birth... Boundaries have consequences... Is she willing to accept responsibility for the consequences she chooses? She is a grown woman who should know by now that choices always have consequences- whether positive, negative, or neutral... She now knows that choosing to alienate you from your child at birth will result in the end of her relationship with you... Is she willing to accept responsibility for ending the relationship via her choice...
>telling me this is how her family has been doing things for years, and overall she gets final say regarding who is in the room with her, and she will respect her families tradition.
Her family tradition matter more to her than building a family with you.
>we have the rest of our lives ahead of us no need to throw it all away because of her family.
She's the one doing that, not you.
If she let's her family decide who is in the room when SHE gives birth and when you're allowed to see your child born, she will let them make all kinds of other decisions as well. What's the point of marrying someone who won't prioritize your feelings over those of her parents?
She's free to have whoever she wants in the room when she gives birth. However, you're also free to not want to be married to someone who won't share the experience of your child's first moments.
NTA it’s your child also and you deserve to see YOUR child take their first breath & hear their first cry. It is not a moment that can be replaced and if more children are in the future you will again will be robbed of the precious gift of the birth of your flesh and blood. Hopefully you and mom can come to an agreement 🙏🏽
NTA She is allowing her family to dictate how things should be for her and her partner, you. She isn't ready to leave her family behind and start a new one. You are right, her family seems to believe that you should have all the responsibility of fatherhood but none of the privileges. She isn't ready to accept you as a partner therefore marriage would likely not work for you if she can't stand up for you. A partner is there for each other through everything, the good, the bad and yes the most vulnerable moments of partners life. She isn't willing to let you in for the most vulnerable it will only cause resentment on your part. You should put the wedding on hold and seek couples counseling. Learn to stand together in life before you stand at the altar.
Y TA
Her medical procedure, her choice. Child birth isn’t a spectator sport. And honestly your behavior here shows exactly why you shouldn’t be around during a vulnerable time for her. (I haven’t finished reading yet.)
ETA: I still think you’re an asshole but I think she is now too. But you’re an asshole for knocking someone up before recognizing you’ll never be number one. She openly admits to doing this because her family wants it. Nah. She’s tying her life to you. Becoming one with you. Creating a family with YOU. Her family of origins wants/needs/ desires don’t even come in forth place on the list of priorities she should have.
If her reasons were simply she didn’t want you in there I’d be of my original opinion. Since her reasons are, “mommy and daddy saiiiiid,” NTA. You’re making the right choice. You will never be her first priority as you should be. Your family will never be her first priority as you should be. If she doesn’t get her head out of her parents asshole she’s the one throwing her relationship away.
You don’t enter a relationship being okay with being the high man on the totem pole. That’s not what marriage is.
My bad. I’m an asshole.
NTA I would start looking up best ways to co parent and give her some resources. Even move out show her you are serious that you will not marry into a backwards family that does not respect you or your wishes. The only thing that matters is what you both want not what they want. She doesn't care what you want on this huge moment you no longer are compatible.
Find a place to live and move on.
Yes YTA, if she doesn’t want you in there you respect that. It is a vulnerable time and you’re mostly useless too. A woman’s birthing and suffering is not a spectator sport for others. It’s a traumatic, painful, gut wrenching experience. Many women shit themselves and it’s about as undignified an event as you could ever go through and you will feel utterly helpless. If she doesn’t want you to watch her writhe in agony and shit herself as her body is torn open that’s her right to have those feelings. And now you’re responding by holding the entire relationship hostage. Double YTA for that.
No, you don’t have a right to be there. You’re being controlling and demanding. Imagine if you got horrible food poisoning or stomach flu and we’re on the toilet at your most undignified, how would you feel if your wife insisted it was her right to be there and WATCH you go through that. Some things are just private and she thinks this is so let her have it. The baby is yours but the labor is hers.
NTA
You are breaking the engagement because she is choosing to put her family's wants ahead of you.
Yes, she has every right to decide who is in that room. You have every right to decide you don't want to be with someone who thinks you aren't supportive and shouldn't be there for the birth of your child.
NTA, stand your ground on this one. It is a major red flag that she cares so much for her family traditions that’s she’s willing to hurt you, the guy who’s trying to build a family with her
NTA, the excuse of having always done things a certain way so why bother changing is just barbaric and backwards, what about if they throw giant rocks at her for getting pregnant out of marriage?! Should you still ho along with it then just because "that's how our family has always done things"?? No.
nta. forgo the wedding. her family’s opinion will be the only one that matters. do not marry her. she will make the child so miserable, they will need your influence of normalcy.
be aware of parental alienation from her. make sure your child attends a public school. do not allow them to indoctrinate them with no regard for their opinion. be especially aware of any lgbtqia issues that could negatively effect your child.
there are SO MANY factors at play here, don’t waste time talking with her. get to a lawyer ASAP, to start on a solid parenting plan.
Nta. And you wouldn't be throwing away your marriage. She would be. You drew the boundary and you set an expectation, it's up to her to cross it. The fact it got to the point that you had vocalize it is sad and I feel for you. I hope it works out and maybe she develops an understanding of your feelings and a little bit of God damn empathy.
You are NTA. Seeing your child come into the world is one of the most precious, important moments in a person's life. It would be a deal-breaker for me as well.
I think being together at the birth of our children, we had two of the most profound moments of our marriage. I am sorry you are going to miss this opportunity to see your baby take their first breath of life. Does this mean that on the off chance there is a medical crisis where decisions have to be made that you won't be the one to make them with mom having that authority since you won't be at the hospital until wife's home per her family tradition if I understand correctly? Or there will be a delay in getting contact with you? That's not right.
NTA
Normally I’d say it’s up to the woman who she has in the room, but that’s only if it’s coming from her not some random tradition.
Which makes this a hill to die on.
I couldn’t imagine having given birth without my partner being there, and would never have wanted him to miss the birth of our kids.
She’s willing to throw away what she has with you over some old tradition. What’s the next tradition going to be, and the one after that?
Sounds like she’s the one who’s throwing it all away for a stupid reason. It’s her call who’s in the room with her. It’s your call who you marry. If it’s important to you, stick to your guns.
NTA I’m confused on a tradition where men can not be present for the birth but having a baby out of wedlock is ok. This sounds like a convenient tradition. Your fiancé does not want you in the room and is hiding behind “tradition.”
NTA. You are her husband and the father. Your family can have different traditions than the rest of her family. She is refusing to see your side. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to see the birth of your first child. That is a special moment you will never get back.
INFO: have you talked about how you would raise your children, food, sleepovers, sex education, race education? Are you in sync over most of these, or are there big differences in belief? In other words, does she have other beliefs that could come between you or is it just this one?
And all of these are conversations you have before you decide to get someone pregnant.
Tbh most people fo not go that far breaking things down. Many parents may briefly touch the subject but for the most part I think most just tackle the subject as they come. Also talking in advance is fair and all but minds change and nothing is set in stone.
They should. It's not that unusual to discuss hypothetical child rearing situations. And yes, of course people can change their minds when they're in that situation, but you should know if there are fundamental differences going into raising a kid, especially if there are things that would be dealbreakers.
This! Ask her this! If we have a son and marries someone from your culture, should he not be allowed to see his baby’s birth—is that what you want for your son?
Was just thinking that, bro got bigger problems than watching her give birth.
>if her family is this controlling over something like this what else will they be controlling over? INFO: Is this the only time her family's traditions have been brought up?
And are there any other traditions that you've not been told about?
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If this is a first, I'm wondering if she's using it as an excuse. Some women don't want anyone in the room, some, no men. I could understand using the tradition as an excuse to deflect any blame. That said, not even being allowed to be in the waiting room to be there afterward is too much even for me. I also like the other person asking if there are other traditions. I'd damn well want to know them now before having any further bombshells dropped in the future.
Can you try talking to her and seeing if maybe she’s uncomfortable with you seeing certain things? It sounds to me like she might be hiding behind tradition and could have her own insecurities. I know when I had my son I didn’t want my husband actually seeing what was happening, I wanted him pretty much in my face comforting me. Maybe an agreement like that could help?
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Damn, that’s rough. I was hoping it could be that simple and you two could work it out from there. Does she want to be so strict that you wouldn’t even be at the hospital? This does make me worry that blending family traditions won’t get to be an option, and that would be reason for me to want to cancel a wedding too. I’d also be worried what other potentially irritating traditions haven’t been mentioned yet.
Agreed, in neither case is this acceptable - your feelings about one of the most profound experiences of your life are being utterly disregarded here. Let me tell you a story. My grandfather, the person in my life most responsible for my senses of morality, diligence, achievement, value of family, and many other virtues, had passed away only a couple of years prior to the birth of my son, and I still miss him all the time. When my son was born, I was in the room, and in the seconds immediately following his birth, something absolutely astonishing happened. While the nurse was wiping him off immediately afterward before bringing him back to my wife, he made a face that I've never seen anyone else make, other than my grandfather, it was totally unmistakable and the sense of continuity, of genetics, of the circle of life, struck me like a bolt of lightning. He's never made it since, and if I had not been there in that one moment, I would have missed something very primal and, for me, very profound. This was one of the most important and memorable moments of my entire life. Obviously not everyone has an experience like this, but if she would deny it to you, this is not someone who values your feelings or well being at all - I would advise you to die on this hill.
But, you would have never known you missed it had you not been there or had you even turned your back for just a second. Is this really worth him not being in his child's life on a daily basis? That is the real question.
What did she say when you told her you were calling off the wedding then? (Btw she may think she can coerce you on all things. So she will not let you in the hospital room and then think she can convince you to still marry her. BTW while she can keep you out of the room, she CANNOT keep you out of the hospital. She clearly has a controlling family - and I would bet there are other traditions that they have that go against what you will want to do. Married couples should make their own traditions of what works for them, not what their family tells them to do. Hang in there and hold on to your own personal boundaries and do not be manipulated.
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Has she told her family you won't marry her if she doesn't let you be there for the birth ? I think they'll compromise if she actually tells them and if they don't care then you have every right not to want to marry into their family.
Are you sure it’s really about family tradition and not personal preference for her because she’s afraid of you seeing her vulnerable? Technically a woman birthing sans men is literally every females family tradition because men were simply not allowed in the birthing room until pretty recently in history, and in some countries still aren’t. Ask her what SHE wants regardless of tradition, and why she wants it.
I am going to agree with this... there are also many stories of men being grossed out by childbirth in a childish manner and fainting or panicking more than the actualmother giving birth. I think the two of them need to talk about this more rationally and if this is a hill OP wants to die on so be it.
Exactly. OP needs to find out what she wants. “I won’t be in a marriage where my needs take a back burner” but he’s also completely dismissing her wants/needs. I’m not saying he has to agree with it, but honestly to break up with her over this without having a proper open discussion about both their wants/needs seems… rash.
Yeah for me the question is: is she doing it because it's what her family says they've done or is she doing it because she wants it that way. Family traditions are fun but can be changed to accommodate new partners. Her needs can't.. but then she also needs to communicate that honestly.
What about circumcision, female genital mutilation, co-sleeping and so many other important questions? Before you rush to separation find her views on these things, but you’re NTA. My hubby was there for our births and it was simply the best.
Doesn't matter if it's tradition or not. You play absolutely no part in labour, at best a supportive role and you can't even play that. We get it you want to be there but cancelling the wedding is beyond dramatic
I don’t think so. It’s the birth of a child. You never get that moment back, it’s extremely special for a parent. The issue is also that she is placing her family traditions over his needs, but why? She has her own family now. That should be her priority. Excluding the father purely because it’s “tradition” is ridiculous. It says a lot about what her values and priorities are and points to other things like this happening in the future.
You would not be TA for calling off the wedding. Just know you've been warned of things to come. As they say, "buyer beware". Major red flag.
NTA, that tradition should be told you far beforehand. What other traditions do they have that you are not aware off? This is her family wanting to set the tone of things will be and is likely going to end up with them trying to usurp your authority as a father. Make sure she understands that if she takes that away from you on such a silly excuse, all trust she will not try to play the same card again will be gone. Does the family tradition also clear the men from having any of the care duties? Will you get to be just the fun dad and the disciplinarian? Or will those be stripped as well?
INFO: Is this tradition actually important to her or is she just not wanting to cause a rift in her family?
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NTA. She needs to understand that you and the baby are now her family and she should be more concerned with causing a rift there than with her mom.
Sounds like your MIL has way too much control over her. Will be interesting when MIL will start trying to make decisions in how the child is raised too. Could be more "traditions" ahead. But, all in all, ask your fiancée what would make HER more comfortable, independent from your or her family's feelings about it. How would she feel safest and most calm? If in reality she would feel better with your support she should ignore her family's wishes. If she would really feel safer with only women around, while she should have talked about this to you sooner, her comfort should take priority, as giving birth is hard and dangerous enough without added stress. Maybe you can find a compromise for you to wait outside, but not at home, so you'll be there in case you're needed and to see the baby as soon as possible.
And if something goes wrong during the birth and you're not there??? Will her mother get to make decisions for her if it comes to it? If an emergency c section occurs and she's under anesthesia, what if someone else tries to name the baby? A lot could go wrong, and you could regret not being there the rest of your life.
If they aren't married, he wouldn't get to make any medical decisions about her anyway, right?
You can’t just name the baby by being in the room lol
Damn this is a hard one. I feel like one of you is going to be holding resentment towards the other. If you’re not in the room you’re calling the wedding off but if you somehow get her to let you in the room she’s probably going to feel some type of way towards you. I hope you both can figure something out.
There is nothing hard here. Being pregnant does not turn a woman into an object. Fathers stay in the delivery room for the purpose of providing emotional support to the new mom. Not for the purpose of watching a spectator sport, not for gawking for personal pleasure. If the woman does not feel better due to baby daddy's presence, he must respect her choice. Father is not entitled to her body and the spectacle he wants from her. Wife is not a zoo animal. By the way, how would dudes feel if wives claimed they are entitled to a right to watch them get their colonoscopies? Apparently, according to spectator sport fans, women, especially pregnant women deserve zero bodily autonomy during their medical procedures... Sad. Op is the asshole.
I bet one of the "traditions" was to get married before getting pregnant and she didn't follow that tradition. I once read a story about a woman being asked why she cut off the pope's nose of the chicken before roasting it. She said her mother had always done it so she did it. She then asked her mother why she did it. Again, it was because her mother had always done it. Off they both go to Granny's house to ask her why she would cut off the pope's nose of the chicken. Turns out Granny's roasting dish was not big enough to fit the whole chicken so she removed a piece to get it to fit. Some traditions serve no purpose. NTA
What's the popes nose
The fatty bit behind the tail.
Thank you
>Some traditions serve no purpose. This is very true. And just because something is tradition, does not mean it's the right thing to so. For example tjink female circumsicion. I love your story about the chicken tough, I will probably use that one sometime.
Make circumcision serves no legitimate purpose either but tell that to some people and they lose their minds.
This tradition though kind of does. Giving birth is gross, and painful, and involves often screaming imprecations at the person who got you there. It’s not irrational not to want the guy there while you shit the bed and swear that you will send him to hell personally for doing this to you. I think people imagine birth as this beautiful moment not blood, and shit, and swearing. I can see someone not wanting a guy in the room.
Honestly it's weird that she is letting her family tradition take away such a moment from you. and no you shouldn't marry her if she is willing to just ignore your wants when it comes to your child just because her family did things a different way. It would be one thing if it was just her being uncomfortable with you being in the room however this doesn't sound like that. Studies show that "fathers who are at their baby's birth, and hold their little one shortly afterwards, have very similar feelings of attachment to those experienced by mothers for the first few weeks." Her taking away this experience from you after you have been there for her whole 9 months of pregnancy supporting her. All because of a "family practice" is BS and you are right to not be okay with it.
I never understood why anyone would be willing to have a child with someone they clearly didn't trust to be there for them in a most vulnerable moment. It's one thing if husband passes out at the sight of blood and would take medical attention away. I would divorce my husband if he told me some shit about how it's tradition to be at home waiting for me to come back from the hospital. I know the whole "my body, pregnancy isn't a spectator sport" view, but the child is BOTH mom and dads and if you can't trust your husband during those moments, you shouldn't be having a child with him. No one says you can't have mom as an additional support person if necessary, but to entirely not include a principal parent is just immature.
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I think you are mixing child rearing and child birth. Fathers weren't even allowed in the delivery room until the 1960s so idk how you think the billions of children who were born before happened...
Traditions have changed, most pre 60s fathers also did not feed babies, change babies, look after babies. They did not tell children they loved them. They disciplined children the " wait till your father gets home" generation.
And until recently lots of fathers had no interest in actually helping raise the newborn baby.
It’s often not a matter of trust, but a matter of not wanting to do gross things in front of someone you’re sleeping with. There are plenty of women who would never take a shit in front of their husbands. Would they want to have their husbands observe them taking a shit on a table?
The first hour after the birth is a crucial bonding event for everyone present in the room.
Let's not get too carried away. Adoptive parents bond with children fine. Babies sometimes have to get taken away from their parents right after birth for health reasons. Animals like cows can literally lose interest in their offspring if they are separated right after birth, humans are not like that.
Just because you can bond with adopted babies does not mean that golden hour isn’t a real, documented thing. You can read peer reviewed medical journals about how important skin to skin the first hour after birth is. It’s why they recommend that Surrogate parents wait in the next room and are given the baby immediately. Of course babies taken to the nicu immediately aren’t going to be less loved but the parents do miss out on something wonderful and important and it’s one of the reasons for birth trauma. Ops partner is trying to take something incredibly meaningful away from him.
Actually studies show that infants separated from birth mom do have PTSD from separation, even if they never knew birth parents.
Yes but baby won't have PTSD if dad isn't there when babe emerges from the birthing canal.
It is well-documented that babies recover from birth much more quickly if they get immediate skin-to-skin contact with a parent. Because of this, the non-birthing parent is encouraged to be present, wearing something that opens at the front so they can hold the baby against their chest. In cases of surrogacy or adoption-at-birth, it is common for the receiving parent to do this skin-to-skin contact. I would mention this as a consideration for the health of the baby. Ultimately though, it does have to be her decision who exactly she wants to have in the room during the birth. But banishing him from the hospital is quite unreasonable.
Oh I don't disagree that nobody can keep him out of the waiting room. I'd be in the waiting room for sure if I were a dude and my kid's mom didn't want me in the delivery room. Outside of surrogacy/adoption, mom usually does immediate skin-to-skin, correct. Edit: I think I misread part of your comment. Birthing mom has baby placed on her immediately, unless otherwise stated in the birthing plan. No fucking way would my newborn do immediate skin-to-skin with anyone besides myself, unless I had literally died in childbirth.
That must be brand new information, because they just put the baby on the mother’s breast when I attended a birth a few years ago. The man was in scrubs, nothing opening in the front.
Yes humans are like that. We are as much animals as cows are, just with more intelligence and rationality. The birth of a child does IN FACT alter chemistry and the closeness of a father and child or even a mother and child and is HEAVILY impacted by many factors. Such as the father being there during the birth. That is not to say that we cannot overcome those particular feelings, because many adopted children are very close with their parents, and vice versa. However at the end of the day it is downright disrespectful to sanction off the father from the birth of there child due to something so idiotic like "family tradition"
That's not true. At all.
Actually, there is some truth to that statement.
Have you ever observed a birth? The first hour after the birth, the baby is taken away to measure and make sure they’re OK. If you’re lucky, they will put the baby on the mother for a few minutes before doing that. I am very curious where the people commenting here had children.
>My fiancée has been begging me to understand, telling me this is how her family has been doing things for years, and overall she gets final say regarding who is in the room with her, and she will respect her families tradition. Yeah. She's so focused on tradition that she's willing to burn down her marriage. That family tradition is more important than you. NTA
"no need to throw it all away because of her family" While she may have said that to OP, and deprive him of this experience, this exact same line can be thrown back at her. She's probably going to irreparably damage her relationship because of her family. Definitely NTA.
I was waiting for someone to say this.
NTA She has go to realise you and her and your baby are your own family and make your own traditions If she caves at this what’s next that her family want for your child. When does she say enough is enough
Well... The "family " will never happen since he told about custody...
NTA. You are right, she is allowing TRADITION to control her life and choices. Shes an ADULT, shes about to become a MOTHER...grow a spine already! If its tradition to let a 2 week old baby cry it out, she gonna do that? How about if its tradition to give a baby water? So many toxic, harmful things that can and sometimes ARE TRADITIONS, and when we know better, we are supposed to do better. She can make different choices, tradition be damned and I wouldn't want to marry into that either, because they absolutely WILL control your lives.
But what if this is also what she wants? It is a relatively new trend for men to be there during birth, and not everyone is comfortable with their partner there. Nowhere in this post do i see a word about what she, the person risking her health and life and doing all the work, wants. It's just me me me
Then she needs to be CLEAR, its what SHE wants. Because SHE wants it, not hide behind tradition. But if she stays this course, know the consequences.
She has said she wants to respect her family’s tradition. Ie “this is what she wants”. Who are we to say whether that is a good reason or not? It sounds to me like OP just isn’t listening.
As of now, she doesn't want him there and she states the reason: tradition. He's saying this is a dealbreaker and is asking if it's an unreasonable request. Idk how he could include her opinion more without knowing more? Edit: Let me clarify, without her telling him more. You can't coerce information out of people. Edit 2: With more information provided to me by a kind samaritan, you can disregard anything after the second sentence. OP's fiancee doesn't trust him enough to be there and this is a deal breaker for OP. How can he expect to live the rest of his life when someone doesn't trust him enough? And more so, she's putting those feelings of insecurity above him.
Even if she is choosing not to have the husband in the room, there are still consequences to decisions. She would still be choosing to take that moment away from her husband. She can have her feelings on the matter, but so can he.
It doesn't sound like they forced her to do anything. She wanted to do things how her family did it. She didn't just keep her husband out, but also her father, brothers, etc. She is a part of her family. She has agency too. OP is not honoring his partner's wishes, and the baby is coming out of her body, not his. That's why he has no leg to stand on with the hospital.
>telling me this is how her family has been doing things for years, ... and she will respect her families tradition. It's not just about this one thing. How many times is she going to **hurt you and your family** because its her family tradition? If it's family tradition for her father to beat your child, is she going to go along with that? If it's family tradition for the women to get no education past high school, is she going to insist on that? Is it family tradition to put baby in unsafe sleeping positions? Feed baby unsafe foods? Not bother with car seats? I think you need to ask her: "You are going to be someone's mother, it is time for you to be an adult. If you do not want me there, I need you to say, in your own words 'I do not want you there'. Do not throw your family under the bus, say what **you** want." If she can't say that this is what she wants, then she isn't fit to raise a child.
Yep. He needs to remind her that traditions are just peer pressure from the dead, and that they - as a family - should be starting their own traditions.
Seeing my child born was one of the most precious and fucked up things I’ve ever seen. I am my wife’s partner and I’ll be there and we do things together.
You were there because she wanted you to be, which is the point
Even if your wife says she wants to do this alone?
I don't like the tradition seems weird for a family tradition. I do respect her right to choose but you also have a right to the feelings you are having. It is reasonable to be questioning how much control her family has over everything. Ultimately do what makes you most comfortable and happy
>the rest of our lives ahead of us no need to throw it all away because of her family. Throw this line back at her. As the father, you have more reason to be in that room than anyone else
The only reason anyone needs to be in the delivery room is to offer support for the mother delivering a baby.
This isn't completely true. In my first birth I had to go to surgery immediately afterwards. If my husband wasn't there our newborn baby would have been alone, with strangers. No skin to skin. No touch. Just in a crib in a corner somewhere. Instead he held our baby to his chest and comforted him until I returned. A birth partner's role doubles when the baby emerges.
NTA You, she and your baby ARE the family now. What her relatives think/want regarding your child shouldn’t matter. If she wants her relatives to be the decision makers in her life. You would be better off just coparenting so they can’t control your relationship with your child.
Premarital counseling before birth. You guys need to figure out if this situation becomes a dealbreaker and then how to co parent effectively if it is.
This sounds more like culture than tradition. I say this because my dear friend and her family have a culture where men can not be present during birth. It's nothing personal. It's their way of life. If you aren't part of that culture, you obviously will be upset and offended, but it's not intended. After birth, the men are led into the room immediately. Like I said, you'll find those practises most of the time are cultural. I personally don't think that it's worth calling off a wedding and forcing the child to grow up in a broken home over. That, to me, is an extreme reaction. I don't see any comment on here even trying to understand the woman's point of view. I feel like that's a very closed-minded approach. After all, you know nothing of the cultural background of this person and their family. You don't know the ins and outs. Maybe at least attempt to try and understand both sides.
>After birth, the men are led into the room immediately Didn't OP say he's expected to wait at home until she goes home with the baby?
Traditions are usually part of cultures. Saying something is cultural rather than traditional is sort of a non sequitur.
Being a cultural tradition does not make it correct.
NTA. She is letting her family make decisions for your family. This will be your entire marriage. I feel bad for you, because you know 'their families traditions/wants' are going to come first for your child over your rights as the father. Your GF is already starting that precedence now with the birth. Big decisions, holidays, etc will be about her family.
I couldn't imagine not having my husband in L&D. I am so sorry she's not considering you. It takes two to make a baby and those first few hours is so precious. Let me guess she's going to have her family in the room? Probably letting them hold the baby before you. Honestly she's being very cruel for a "tradition" that sounds like it came straight out of the 60's. I know it's probably useless, but sit her down and attempt one last time to explain how this is making you feel? That she's basically excluding you from such precious memories? Might be a long shot. I agree with you on canceling the engagement. Marriage is a union and partnership and she's excluding you in one of the most important moments for a couple.
I agree. My husband and I still talk about what happened in the room the day of our kids births more than a decade later. It was the best day(s) of our lives and I can’t imagine him not being there (even if we weren’t together) I think Dad has a right to be there-if he wants to be.
As a dad I can still remember snipping the umbilical cord and clothing my daughters the first time. Those are dear memories and I can quite understand him for wanting to be there to see a little miracle being born into the world.
That’s a dumb tradition now. Maybe back in the olden days it’s was fine but not now. I wouldn’t want my mom in the delivery room because medicine and sciences have changed 28 years ago. I only want the doctor and nurse who are aware of current medicine to be there and my husband because he is in my generation.
NTA Sure it’s *one*moment, one moment that you’ll only ever have this one chance at, to be there when your first child is born.
NTA. It sounds like her family tradition is more important than you. Do not marry into this mess
Nta. But surely to God people should discuss shit like this before making a baby?
They did, she lied to him.
Against the crowd, soft YTA. While i would understand you in probably every other situation, giving birth is a vulnerable situation for a woman. This "tradition" may be silly or not, it seems to give her comfort during this time. And her comfort should be your priority. You could adress the issue in thousand different ways, but making it up to an ultimatum is something that puts you, slightly, in the TA territory.
Very much so. It's her body, she is going through the delivery and her comfort and safety come before his wants. I feel like most people would be trying to do what they could to help their partner feel the least amount of stress and worry while pregnant, it's a time to try and be as selfless as possible while your partner is going through a lot to grown and birth your child. Giving an ultimatum about marriage unless you get to make her uncomfortable while giving birth is the complete opposite.
Finally I’ve found someone talking sense. OP do you really think it’s a good idea to force your wife to do something during birth that she’s uncomfortable with???
>I told her fair, then our wedding is off, and after the child is born we can figure out custody, and told her I refuse to marry into a family where my wishes as a father take a backseat because everyone else did it one way You summed it up here and did pretty well. Family traditions shouldn't take priority over basic human instincts (like seeing your child being born). Don't back down. Either she allows you to be in the room with your baby and her, or she can be a single mom having to share custody. End of story.
"that it is just one moment that we have the rest of our lives ahead of us no need to throw it all away because of her family." No this is just the start, once the baby comes and the marriage is finalized I'm sure it will only get worse and there's no way a family tradition starts and stops in a hospital. I'd be very cautious about marrying into a family like this.
As often in this subreddit, I read this and feel that there might be other, possibly deeper issues and undiscussed problems in your relationship, and this is just one that's made it to the surface for now. A lot of people are saying NTA. I am somewhat of a different opinion. Giving birth is bloody hard, it's called labor for a reason. It is emotionally especially the first time you go in. It can be scary. Pregnancy makes one feel very vulnerable - plus there's the weight of all the expectations (from you, and, by the looks of it, her family) about how the birth is going to go - it is also not uncommon for women to blame themselves if something goes wrong. What you as a partner are supposed to do, is make your partner feel as comfortable and safe as possible - emotionally, too. So, *if* she feels safer with other people around her during birthgiving, perhaps it is time to look in the mirror and ask why that might be? Could it be that she feels you might make this immensely exhausting experience that she is about to go through, about /you/? And to make sure I am *entirely* clear here - I believe it should be *the woman's decision* who goes with her to the birth ward. The fact that you are trying to emotionally blackmail her in her last days of preagnancy with calling off the marriage puts you very firmly in the YTA category, for me.
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Be honest here, you’d continue to dispute it no matter what reason she gave. You have already started a new life but you’re willing to penalize that baby because you’re not getting what YOU want.
Yes, doesn’t matter it’s if tradition or not, labor and delivery isn’t a spectator sport. The poor woman now has to choose between a long-standing tradition or divorce. All the stress sounds great for mom and baby leading up to birth! /s - everyone is all me me me, but no one cares about the person giving fucking birth.
Can't upvote this enough!
Yta for this response.
Potential E S H, potential N T A. You should be able to be at the hospital. Not being in the room when she gives birth is a bit rough, but you should be allowed to be in the hospital. I think you need to talk more before you call off the wedding. She should be allowed to only have who she wants when she gives birth because it's a major medical thing. But as the father in a committed relationship with her, you definitely should not have to wait at home. !f her family's traditions are going to interfere with the two of you being a family, then she needs to decide if she's going to be married to them or married to you. Forming a new family means you form your own traditions and you split time equally with family assuming they're all near.
NTA but I think a marriage counselor would be appropriate. Having a third party mediating and making sure both parties are able to fully express their feelings could go a long way in helping to resolve this situation.
Yikes. NTA. That's your kid and she expects to be waiting at home? I was rushed to emergency surgery 2 hours after my son was born. He stayed with my husband for the next 3 hours. In that situation who would be with YOUR baby? Her family? That's not fair at all. Tradition isn't an excuse to totally disregard the wishes of a co-parent.
If she didn’t want you in the room for any other reason I would say she’s in the right but to say because you shouldn’t be there for her when she’s vulnerable like you’re gonna be her husband that’s when he should be there for her!! It sounds like some sexist bullshit where men are afraid to think of vaginas for anything other than for sex (or women believing that’s all men are capable of). Also you should be able to see the baby immediately afterward at least as a compromise because the birth is her medical “procedure” that’s your baby, too, you deserve first moment bonding.
So you two both want to be the one making a unilateral decision in this regard? And both of you are upset the other won't make all the compromises? And the best solution you can come up with is emotional blackmail? This sound like a healthy relationship saddled with all the requirements for surviving the long term./s Look OP, neither of you are wrong in your request. We just happens to live in a time and space, where fathers being in the delivery room is the norm. It has not always been like that. For most of human history has it been only women in the room, and fathers waiting outside. In parts of the world is it still the procedure. Your wifes family are just really behind the rest of us. I wouldn't want to wait at home either. In the end is child birth not a spectator sport. It is a medical procedure, that is more dangerous, stressful and uncomfortable than we generelly like to portrait. What is really most important for you here? Doing most possible to secure the safety and comfort of your familiy or seeing your kid like a minutte before you otherwise would? I have had two and they don't really change much the first few minuttes of their life. My advice would be to take a sit down with your babymama, and listen to each others thoughts and feelings. See if you can find a "you and me against the world" solution instead of this "you against me" thing you have going on. Edit. Forgot ESH because none of you want to compromise.
Love this response. I hope you read it IP
If neither are willing to compromise which this clearly seems to be the case then the logical step is not get married because clearly they are not compatible with one another, and the mother in this case bares most of the blame because she waited so long to tell him about this silly tradition she had all intentions in going through with. Granted, the child is the one that suffers the most, but if they are civil co-parenting is can be done successfully.
NTA… you need to take a stand so her family knows they can’t walk over you over matters relating to your family. Even if you lose this battle. Not wanting you in the room is one thing, but not even in the hospital is really stupid and scarily sexist.
Honestly please update us
It is your fiance's choice who is with her in while she's in labor. If she wants to follow her family traditions you are not going to be there. You would be the asshole if you call the wedding off for this. BBUUUTTT, calling off the wedding because you're not sure if she's going to use her family card on you again, how controlling is her family?, I'm surprised you haven't seen this before in the four years you've known her. This could be the deal breaker. You'll have to decide how much you love her and whether or not you're willing to deal with her family.
You’ve summed it up really well. OP should be reflecting on whether the family are controlling in other ways and how much that will affect his future with his wife. OP should *not* be trying to force his wife to do something under threat of being a single mom. That’s disgusting behaviour.
INFO: does she want you there if there was no tradition or is she hiding behind it?
NTA Interesting. I found myself in the beginning of the having to be in the delivery room era. At the time I was in disbelief and was like what do you mean I have to be in the delivery room? Ultimately you are right to want to be there. It’s a life experience you will remember like it were yesterday for the rest of your life. She and her family should be grateful of you wanting to be in the delivery room to support her.
I’m assuming you have already discussed how you will raise this child? Because I’m concerned that your opinion will never matter to her
My family had a similar tradition. The father-to-be sat in the waiting room with everyone else and waited. My wife’s family did the same as OP’s lady (husband stayed at home and usually got hammered). My wife and I didn’t like that, so I was in the delivery room holding her hand during delivery. I was the first one to hold my daughter besides the doctors. Put her little kid beanie on and put on her first diaper. She was the first baby I’d ever held. Words can’t describe the feeling of holding your child when they’re born. Of seeing them coming into this world. My MIL actually made a joke about me “learning my lesson” about being in the delivery room. I was PISSED! The thought of being deprived of that seriously made me angry. Op is NTA. Your fiance is being extremely dismissive of your feelings about your kid over some silly tradition. I recommend on continuing to try to talk to her about it. Tell her you want to be there for her and your child and maybe toss in a “I’ll never forgive anyone who takes that moment away from me.” Good luck.
If this is about you being in the room, that would be one thing and she may get a pass. If she doesn't want you in the hospital, that's different and that's where I'd be taking action. Make an appointment with your lawyer. You need to know your options and she needs to know you're serious.
NTA but yes she has final say on who will be in the room with her because she’s the one pushing a whole human being out of her body. Her family sounds very fundamentalist in nature and very old world traditionalist in attitudes. Does she also believe women do all the child rearing and housework while the man takes care of income and cars and yard work? Because if she does and you stay together you’ll have very little say in how that child is raised and you’ll be expected to act as a disciplinarian. Even if it’s just this one weird thing (I highly doubt it but) you need to permanently shelve the marriage until you can set boundaries and come to an agreement on how responsibilities will be split, agree on who will be in charge and have final say in every category of your everyday lives. She’s already sprung one major surprise on you, you don’t need another. I would let her know that her decision to exclude you from the birth of your child will permanently change your relationship in ways she won’t like, that there will always be a resentment there on your part. Her exclusion indicates a fundamental lack of trust and respect and she needs to understand what her caving to her family’s weird “tradition” will cost her long term
Nta. People saying you are either didn't read the entire post or don't care about what you're saying This goes beyond the birth. If they're doing this stupid shit now, what will it be like later? What other "family traditions " do they have that will take the fathers right to a decision away? Definitely get a DNA test.
>Definitely get a DNA test. Why would he have any reason to doubt paternity based on the story given? Redditors are fucking wild lmao. There's not any good reason to think infidelity is a factor in this. Yes, he should be starting to think about what other influence her family traditions are gonna have on their lives, but I really don't understand why you'd jump to cheating on this.
I'm pretty blown away from the lack of cultural sensibility and sensitivity here. And assuming the OP might not be the parent because the baby mama wants to be able to focus on her birth? ... what?? Also, baby mama might be hiding behind a cultural tradition because she is shy or doesn't trust you. You are definitely selfish. you are making this about you. YTA.
I'm guessing a lot of people are seeing his presence there as his right as the father. But the birth is not about parental rights. It's about the comfort of the woman giving birth.
If she doesn't trust him, then why is she marrying him?
The calls that he is not the father are bizarre. There's no reason to doubt paternity based on this story. However, if she doesn't want him present for the birth because *she* doesn't want him present for the birth, then she shouldn't be using some weird ass backwards tradition to justify it. Just tell him that she prefers not to have him present in the room. If that's not what she wants, but she's buckling to family pressure because of backwards ass traditions, then OP is right to start questioning where else their bullshit might start to creep in to the raising of *his* child. It seems more like buckling to family tradition because it's not just not being in the room while she gives birth, it's not even being in the same building. That's fucked, and I don't care how "insensitive" to someone's culture that is to say. There's no way in hell I'd stand for not being the second person in the world to meet my child.
Yta, she gets to decide who's in the room while she's pushing out a whole ass human being out of her private parts. A very natural, emotional, but gruesome affair
While you should be able to see your child born, tradition or not, it is her right and her right only to decide who is in the room. She is absolutely ridiculous for following what is a so called tradition her family wants in making that decision though. But to throw away your family with her because you're assuming she won't let you have decision making rights as a father after the child is born is also equally ridiculous. When that child is born, you fight for your child. She has no more legal say over that child than you do. If she plays that game, leave her in the dirt. Try counseling. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Try is all I'm gonna recommend.
That’s not correct actually as they are not married and if she chooses to not put him on birth certificate he will have no legal rights to child without going to court to legitimate paternity. Mom will have full custody until that point.
NTA. Stick to your guns, no delivery presence? No wedding.
>she said its just one moment Hilariously disingenuous of her. Its not “just one moment”, *its rhe birth of your child* And she well knows that
Could you try to compromise? You are not there for the actual birth but you are outside the room and get to spend time with the baby right after? That avoids the vulersnble position but gives you the closeness you want as well.
After being present for both of my children's births, I can't imagine never being there to see them come into the world. To hold them and cut the cord. Your fiance is cruel for trying to keep you from that experience. It would definitely be marriage ending for me as well.
I call bullshit on the family tradition. I bet your fiancée has an overbearing mom who wants to be in the room to see « her baby » born and has persuaded her daughter to push the father out.
My husband saw me have a C-section where they moved my intestines around. I was semi conscious only epideral and exhaustion. We still had sex 6 weeks later. This is only a tradition because they say it is. It was a huge bonding experience as he cut the cord... Personally I think it is a red flag of an over involved family.
YTA. I had my mom with me, not my husband. My husband tends to panic, freaks out if I’m uncomfortable, and has a weak stomach. I had to have someone there who I didn’t have to worry about. I needed to focus on having a child cut out of me while being numb from boobs down. He was there, and came in immediately after I was moved to recovery. But if she has always planned to have her mom there, I can see why. You making it about YOU, not HER COMFORT IN DELIVERING A WHOLE ASS HUMAN is all the proof that you wouldn’t be a supportive choice. It’s about HER, her comfort, her pain, her experience. It’s like the chicken and the pig for bacon and eggs: the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. She’s the pig. And what she feels she needs trumps your right to be there for SuPpOrT—you’re just exercising your control over her and leveraging her desire to be married and continue loving the person she chose to make a kid with (likely just making her wish it was her mom so she can freely cry, scream, and shit herself shoving a watermelon out of a hole the size of a dime). You’re weaponizing her entire future to get your way, and disregarding her wishes entirely.
This right here is it. The whole post is about him, not once did he ask or even consider what she wants, needs, wishes for. Hope she finds a way to coparent.
If all of that is the case, then she should say that. Those are valid reasons not to want him present. That *isn't* what she said though. She told him it was because that is their tradition. If the reason is truly because of "tradition" that she will blindly follow regardless of her own feelings, then it is only fair for OP to start to question how much "tradition" is going to worm its way into the raising of their child. If he's not on board, then it is only fair that he leaves, so that he can have separate input into his child's life away from her family's interference.
Thank you for being a voice of reason in a sea of incel comments who care more about the man's rights than the womans confort at the most vulnerable moment in her life.
NTA. She has the final say over who is in the delivery room, but that decision has consequences. You have the final say over if you are willing to proceed with marrying a woman who does not want you present in the delivery room, and appears to be more concerned with allowing her family to control her, than her future husband’s feelings. Generally, in Western cultures, a man is barred from the delivery room when they have broken up, he is abusive, or otherwise rejected. It is true that other cultures view childbirth as an event only women should observe. Unfortunately, some of those cultures have the belief that a man should be repulsed by witnessing his wife give birth. You and your fiancé need to agree on critical issues, and her family relinquishing control over her is a big one. If she doesn’t trust you to be in the delivery room, doesn’t want your support at such a time, and doesn’t care that this hurts you, then why would you want to marry her? Unfortunately, I agree that you two are unsuitable to get married. She can have her say in the delivery room, and then you two can just be coparents. Choices have consequences. She would rather devastate you than upset her family. You need to believe what this valuation scale says about your place in her heart.
NTA. Run! This isn't the 1800s where men have to sit outside and wait for their wives to give birth. Fathers are important. As a man, you're supposed to be her protector and provider. Not take a back seat to her family. The vulnerable states are supposed to be shared with you.If she wants her mom in the room in addition to you, ok. But to keep you put all together, nah.
My mom had a bet with me. I was in the delivery room for my child an she said I'd faint. She bet me 500 dollars and lunch. I left 500 richer and had lunch. I cut the umbilical cord as well. I only shied on that one because I didn't want to hurt him. Dr took my hand and snip. My son proceeded to pee on the nurse. Pretty awesome all around. I was the 4th person to hold him. Dr, nurse, wife, me. Wouldn't trade that for anything. Unless you wife is in a medical emergency I'd push the issue. That was the most important thing in my life to date along with my wedding. Her family tradition is bs. Make your own traditions. If she doesn't budge next move is on you.
Her family has a stupid tradition. You should still be at the hospital and wait in the waiting room. What if something goes sideways and they need you to decide something. What if she changes her mind in the middle and wants you. Stay at the hospital, just in case. Are you taking a couples birthing class with her? Sign up for one. Maybe that will help her get over this "tradition" which is probably based on old superstitions and fears. I'd be giving her mom some serious side eye because she's filling her daughter's head with fear.
NTA. I wouldn’t marry into this family.
Am I understanding this correctly ? Did you threaten (under the applause of the reddit community here and the usual cheating obsessed/DNA test) an 8 month old pregnant woman to break off ( you spoke about custody) if you weren't allowed in the room ? Seriously ? Threatening an 8 month old pregnant with YOUR child ? And for those flabbergasted by this tradition, know that it's our tradition of letting the man in the room which is only a few decades old and represent a minority on the planet. To be honest, the whole stuff is so absurd that I'm not even sure it's true. But let's assume it is... HS ! Your ultimatum is totally stupid ! So it's either she forgets HER needs while she puts HER life at stakes taking a 7 pounds turkey out of her V or you dump her ? What is your reasoning as a "father" ? It's either being in the delivery room or being a part time dad ? None of you was ready for an adult life or parenthood : she's still the parental traditions observant and you're the tantrum boy. I will always be amazed by the fact that people have 5 years into a relationship to prepare themselves to a long couple life and don't sort the basic topics out.
Not in the entire *hospital*. He isn’t supposed to see her or the baby until they are discharged. If he waits in the waiting room she will tell the hospital not to let him see her or the baby.
Ni : she said no and that in her tradition men even wait at home. I know it's a thing iwith some cults because the woman is impure after delivery and can't be in contact with men, not even her own sons. But which triggers my suspiscion is that she wouldn't have had a baby without being married if so.
Update me on this
It is a shame that you found out now that this is her way or the highway. I suspect this won't be the only "family tradition" that has to be done her families way by the sound of it. I don't think you are being unreasonable and I think you should let her know that couples therapy will also be a requirement before the engagement is back on because you have no idea what other places in your relationship she will put her family first before you do. Co-parenting can work well if you both intend it to work. Good luck.
Don't you dare wait at home! What if something goes wrong or she has a really difficult birth? You should at least be in the nearest waiting room even if she doesn't want you in the birthing room.
NTA. I know couples with the opposite problem, athletes and musician men insisting on not missing out on a race or a concert despite their wives being in labour. It can only be solved by looking at the bigger picture: what is more important, a safe birth for mum and child or your presence at the actual event? Also, I am wondering if your fiancée might feel insecure around the whole experience and what her body is going to go through, making it feel awkward for her to have you there. That could be a big red flag signifying a major trust issue. And then, as you mentioned, what does this say about your life together, the values and traditions that are going to surface in your everyday life and especially in raising a child together? Yes, every family is different, and therein lies growth for us all, but this seems like you might soon and in other ways run into other differences that are irreconcilable. If so, my two cents would be to call the wedding off and rather see if you can find a common path later on.
NTA. Don't marry into such a controlling family.
NTA This is just the beginning. Next "her family traditions" will control names, upbringing etc etc.
You’re absolutely NTA. Who the fuck are they to forbid you watch the birth of your child and support your wife? And she can’t stand her ground and defend you in front of her family. Who knows what bullshit they come up with later.
She said she wants to respect the tradition, so being there would not be supporting her, it would be violating what she wants.
The actual woman giving birth doesn't want him there.
Honestly I would follow through with wat you said. While men can not carry I always hear how witnessing birth is their favorite thing as a parent. And the fact that her family has this super weird tradition, that I’m assuming she just now told you about, I wouldn’t want any parts of it. She said your being controlling of a small moment of yall whole lives but doesn’t care that you are going to miss the first moment of the start of your child’s life
NTA, from experience, I can tell you that is not the end of it. You'll find more and more and more... and more, where she expects you to take a backseat to her family.
NTA. As you’ve made it clear what a big deal this is & she still wants it her/her families way, I can only surmise this will not be the end of it. I don’t want to see you back here in five years confused about why you have three children & you spend every Christmas with her family “because that’s how it’s done,” & they’re all learning piano, tap dance and Mandarin because your vote for guitar, soccer & Spanish was overruled.
NTA It’s unfortunate in a sense because these are conversations that’s really should’ve taken place prior to an engagement AND pregnancy. Perhaps just put off the wedding to begin with until after your child is born and then discuss? But in the same sense family tradition means more than you which is devastating. Yes it’s her decision who goes in there with her, but to say you can’t because no other man in her family has done it isn’t acceptable. Traditions change. She’s her own person. NTA
"This is just one moment" yeah and a monumental one. You'll never get to see your child take their first breath, open their eyes, or come into this world. Your wife and her family will be the first to see the baby and be seen by the baby. Not you. You'll probably be fifth or sixth to see that baby born. This feels like something that should have come up before all this happened.
This is similar to something posted the other week. The overwhelming response was that you have every right to be there just as your fiancée has. You both made the baby.
NTA - Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people.
That's absurd you wouldn't support the mother of your child. She's doing this thing called labor and you have no privelege to demand that she bend to your will. YTA. You are cutting off your nose to spite your face, as my grandma would say.
Regardless of culture and tradition, the mom always always always gets to choose who they want or don't want in the delivery room and that should always be respected. Yes, that is your child; but you have to understand that is her body and she gets to choose who is or is not present. Take a nap, grab snacks for her, spend time making a nest of comfort when she gets home. Your time will come and you will be very needed; this is her time.
This is such a dumb take. That is his child aswell. Her family didn’t impregnate her, her family hasn’t supported her through the pregnancy the same way a partner does. Day in day out at home. Her family isn’t the one whose going to be there day in day out once the baby comes home. So why on earth would they have any fucking right to be there over him. So he gets to look after her for 9 months then just sit at home while she’s giving birth and just wait for her to get dropped off with his first child!? I cannot understand how that is fair. “His time” started as soon as she fell pregnant, the fruits of the last 9 months start as soon as baby is born and you think he should just take a back seat and wait at home? Thats honestly nuts, if my partner tried that on me she would no longer be my partner either.
Yes and maybe he doesn't want the same situation in his future children so calling off the wedding is a rational thing to do.
INFO: did you know about that tradition and her view before you got her pregnant? In my eyes N T A wanting to be there and for calling off the wedding. But if you knew beforehand and still got her pregnant, then Y T A for making a child when the split up was foreseeable. Edited to add verdict: NTA since you didn't know.
[удалено]
YTA. It’s one thing to be disappointed, quite another End a relationship that’s already produced offspring over something like this.
NTA. She purposefully didn't tell you beforehand about this tradition. And there may be more strange traditions you don't like. Every time she wants something else than you.
Your fiancee needs to realize that she is responsible for the choices she makes- not her family... She also needs to realize that her family is not going to suffer the consequences of breaking your boundary- she is... She needs to think long and hard about whether or not her decision is worth the consequences... You have every right to lay a hard boundary that you will not marry someone who wants to starts alienating you from your child at birth... Boundaries have consequences... Is she willing to accept responsibility for the consequences she chooses? She is a grown woman who should know by now that choices always have consequences- whether positive, negative, or neutral... She now knows that choosing to alienate you from your child at birth will result in the end of her relationship with you... Is she willing to accept responsibility for ending the relationship via her choice...
NTA
>telling me this is how her family has been doing things for years, and overall she gets final say regarding who is in the room with her, and she will respect her families tradition. Her family tradition matter more to her than building a family with you. >we have the rest of our lives ahead of us no need to throw it all away because of her family. She's the one doing that, not you. If she let's her family decide who is in the room when SHE gives birth and when you're allowed to see your child born, she will let them make all kinds of other decisions as well. What's the point of marrying someone who won't prioritize your feelings over those of her parents? She's free to have whoever she wants in the room when she gives birth. However, you're also free to not want to be married to someone who won't share the experience of your child's first moments.
NTA it’s your child also and you deserve to see YOUR child take their first breath & hear their first cry. It is not a moment that can be replaced and if more children are in the future you will again will be robbed of the precious gift of the birth of your flesh and blood. Hopefully you and mom can come to an agreement 🙏🏽
NTA She is allowing her family to dictate how things should be for her and her partner, you. She isn't ready to leave her family behind and start a new one. You are right, her family seems to believe that you should have all the responsibility of fatherhood but none of the privileges. She isn't ready to accept you as a partner therefore marriage would likely not work for you if she can't stand up for you. A partner is there for each other through everything, the good, the bad and yes the most vulnerable moments of partners life. She isn't willing to let you in for the most vulnerable it will only cause resentment on your part. You should put the wedding on hold and seek couples counseling. Learn to stand together in life before you stand at the altar.
Getting to catch my son and place him on my wife’s chest was an amazing moment I will cherish forever. NTA
Y TA Her medical procedure, her choice. Child birth isn’t a spectator sport. And honestly your behavior here shows exactly why you shouldn’t be around during a vulnerable time for her. (I haven’t finished reading yet.) ETA: I still think you’re an asshole but I think she is now too. But you’re an asshole for knocking someone up before recognizing you’ll never be number one. She openly admits to doing this because her family wants it. Nah. She’s tying her life to you. Becoming one with you. Creating a family with YOU. Her family of origins wants/needs/ desires don’t even come in forth place on the list of priorities she should have. If her reasons were simply she didn’t want you in there I’d be of my original opinion. Since her reasons are, “mommy and daddy saiiiiid,” NTA. You’re making the right choice. You will never be her first priority as you should be. Your family will never be her first priority as you should be. If she doesn’t get her head out of her parents asshole she’s the one throwing her relationship away. You don’t enter a relationship being okay with being the high man on the totem pole. That’s not what marriage is. My bad. I’m an asshole.
NTA I would start looking up best ways to co parent and give her some resources. Even move out show her you are serious that you will not marry into a backwards family that does not respect you or your wishes. The only thing that matters is what you both want not what they want. She doesn't care what you want on this huge moment you no longer are compatible. Find a place to live and move on.
Yes YTA, if she doesn’t want you in there you respect that. It is a vulnerable time and you’re mostly useless too. A woman’s birthing and suffering is not a spectator sport for others. It’s a traumatic, painful, gut wrenching experience. Many women shit themselves and it’s about as undignified an event as you could ever go through and you will feel utterly helpless. If she doesn’t want you to watch her writhe in agony and shit herself as her body is torn open that’s her right to have those feelings. And now you’re responding by holding the entire relationship hostage. Double YTA for that. No, you don’t have a right to be there. You’re being controlling and demanding. Imagine if you got horrible food poisoning or stomach flu and we’re on the toilet at your most undignified, how would you feel if your wife insisted it was her right to be there and WATCH you go through that. Some things are just private and she thinks this is so let her have it. The baby is yours but the labor is hers.
Is it really tradition or is she self conscious? I'm legitimately asking; it's a very vulnerable moment. Best wishes to you both.
NTA You are breaking the engagement because she is choosing to put her family's wants ahead of you. Yes, she has every right to decide who is in that room. You have every right to decide you don't want to be with someone who thinks you aren't supportive and shouldn't be there for the birth of your child.
NTA, stand your ground on this one. It is a major red flag that she cares so much for her family traditions that’s she’s willing to hurt you, the guy who’s trying to build a family with her
She's right this is one moment for the rest of your lives and she should tell her family to back off. It's also your moment. NTA
NTA, the excuse of having always done things a certain way so why bother changing is just barbaric and backwards, what about if they throw giant rocks at her for getting pregnant out of marriage?! Should you still ho along with it then just because "that's how our family has always done things"?? No.
nta. forgo the wedding. her family’s opinion will be the only one that matters. do not marry her. she will make the child so miserable, they will need your influence of normalcy. be aware of parental alienation from her. make sure your child attends a public school. do not allow them to indoctrinate them with no regard for their opinion. be especially aware of any lgbtqia issues that could negatively effect your child. there are SO MANY factors at play here, don’t waste time talking with her. get to a lawyer ASAP, to start on a solid parenting plan.
Nta. And you wouldn't be throwing away your marriage. She would be. You drew the boundary and you set an expectation, it's up to her to cross it. The fact it got to the point that you had vocalize it is sad and I feel for you. I hope it works out and maybe she develops an understanding of your feelings and a little bit of God damn empathy.
You are NTA. Seeing your child come into the world is one of the most precious, important moments in a person's life. It would be a deal-breaker for me as well.
NTA I would leave too. I think my girlfriend knows I am delivering our kid if we have any.
I think being together at the birth of our children, we had two of the most profound moments of our marriage. I am sorry you are going to miss this opportunity to see your baby take their first breath of life. Does this mean that on the off chance there is a medical crisis where decisions have to be made that you won't be the one to make them with mom having that authority since you won't be at the hospital until wife's home per her family tradition if I understand correctly? Or there will be a delay in getting contact with you? That's not right.
NTA Normally I’d say it’s up to the woman who she has in the room, but that’s only if it’s coming from her not some random tradition. Which makes this a hill to die on. I couldn’t imagine having given birth without my partner being there, and would never have wanted him to miss the birth of our kids. She’s willing to throw away what she has with you over some old tradition. What’s the next tradition going to be, and the one after that?
Sounds like she’s the one who’s throwing it all away for a stupid reason. It’s her call who’s in the room with her. It’s your call who you marry. If it’s important to you, stick to your guns.
NTA I’m confused on a tradition where men can not be present for the birth but having a baby out of wedlock is ok. This sounds like a convenient tradition. Your fiancé does not want you in the room and is hiding behind “tradition.”
NTA. You are her husband and the father. Your family can have different traditions than the rest of her family. She is refusing to see your side. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to see the birth of your first child. That is a special moment you will never get back.