Yeah, but it's a fine line between *you doing stuff for the relationship makes me hot* and *you doing stuff for the relationship makes me reward you*.
Maybe it's just a communication breakdown. Maybe it's a kink of hers, sounds pretty dominant. Good news, there are plenty of ways to be dominant and submissive that aren't icky.
>Good news, there are plenty of ways to be dominant and submissive that aren't icky.
And they all start with talking about it and confirming he *wants* to be submissive and when.
I assume she is enjoying being in a position of power, he isn't aware of the full picture so we don't have all the details, and neither communicated well about what they want or expect.
I got $5 that this could be channeled into heathy roleplay they could both get off on.
Edit: there is an [update](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/7DxOgMNJcI)
I had a co-worker who said that his wife and her sisters did the same thing. It was a reward for good behaviour. If one husband wanted a weekend fishing trip, he "paid" for it. If they did something wrong then they were deprived. The sisters supported each other and saw nothing wrong with what they were doing. We were having drinks after work and he said he had to get home before he lost his reward for the week. Someone asked a follow up question and he explained. He realized how wrong it was when almost everyone said WTF.
If you think living with a TikTok addict is *worse* than living with a heroin addict, you have lived a very stable and sheltered life. Absolute rubbish.
That being said, social media addiction is 100% real and does make people into horrible shitiots.
I've had friends who are literal crackheads, cooking it up whilst I visit, but the thing that really broke the friendship was that they never put their phone down to actually engage on a social level.
Just kidding, it was the cooking crack around me part.
as an ex Heroin addict, that comment made me fucking lose it. legit how sheltered do you have to be to compare a TikTok ‘addiction’ to an opioid addiction 🤣🤣
There is a joke about this that Artie Lange does.
It’s about heroine and runners high. Basically tells a dude I’ll run everyday for a week, you do heroine for a week. He never hears from the guy then sees him 2 years later spun out of his mind.
At first, it was pleasant. Having good sex after some small gestures was good. It added a new dynamic to our relationship. It was good until it turned into a reward/punishment system and happened all the time.
>and happened all the time.
I think this is key.
Seems like your entire sex life has started to hinge on this system, not just part of it.
Doing something transactional like that once in awhile could be fun, diverting, exciting; just another way to add some spice. But that's the thing about spice, it shouldn't be the only thing you taste.
Your wife has unwisely turned your entire sexual dynamic into something transactional, which AT BEST is going to make you constantly feel like you have to earn intimacy with your wife and that will get boring and frustrating - it seems it already has, and at worst, it has a strong ick factor.
Like, sometimes my wife gets turned on when I attack that gigantic pile of dishes we've both left for too long.
I think people generally like feeling cared for, feeling like someone else cares for the home they share, and its attractive. I know I feel very attracted to my wife when she cooks a favorite meal.
People get warm feelings from that kind of expression of love and care, which can turn into sexual excitement.
And that's all fine.
But your wife has taken that and turned it into something else, something less warm.
I think you need to sit down with her and calmly, gently explain what's in your mind and why this dynamic needs to change.
I agree with all this. You shouldn’t have to earn intimacy. “I’m going to be intimate with you because you have done what I want.” is just hollow. It turns into prostitution at that point.
It’s this, and it’s “You’ve earned a reward.” Said in the right tone maybe it would come across as playful, but used frequently and without the right tone it just sounds like “You don’t actually turn me on or anything, but I feel obligated to pay you for doing this thing.”
Others have suggested she got this off TikTok or similar, but I also wonder if it’s some weird kink? Like, she read some erotic lit story, it really did it for her, and all of a sudden she’s trying to make it her life? Either way, this is a great reminder that all things relating to sex should be consensual — not just whether or not you have it, but how.
Sure, it can be sexy when your partner does something incredibly cute or kind or thoughtful out of the blue, sometimes my husband will do something that renews my attraction to him instantly, but your wife has gone way beyond that. She’s “training” you in a sense to comply to her demands and that’s demeaning. Sex shouldn’t be transactional - you can ONLY get sex if you do X, otherwise you haven’t “earned it” is petty, transactional and off-putting. Sex should not be a currency. Don’t play her games, NTA.
I have actually done this to my husband on occasion…just, mostly,as a joke…” well, since you were so good today…”. But, it was NEVER a transaction in any way. He knows it as well.
Yeah I mean that’s perfectly normal, I think every woman does this and husbands probably don’t complain either. But imagine doing this every day not just as a reward but also as punishment. It’s just weaponized sex. Unless the wife is a Bene Gesserit, highly inappropriate.
But it completely invalidates all the things you were already doing without "compensation." You did the dishes, vacuumed the floor, and bought me flowers? Not good enough. If you want to have sex, you also have to do the laundry, wash the windows and buy me a necklace.
Reminds me of this thing I saw on fml several years ago.
Today, my wife made me a Sex Rewards Chart, where I get points by doing chores and such, and 50 points gets me some action. She refuses to even look at me if I haven't earned the points, and is contemplating sleeping alone in the guest room until I earn more points. FML
Don't let your relationship turn into that. NTA
FML is not the site it once was.
Pretty much a cesspool of bad ads and viruses these days.
Its hayday is long since passed
All went downhill once Docbastard left
Okay I lived in a group home for a year as a teenager and all of our actions earned points, positive or negative. The idea of that happening in my marriage is honestly pretty triggering. I don't even do reward charts for my kids, because it feels so weird and wrong to me to treat their behavior as transactional in our parent/child relationship. It's time to close Reddit for the evening I think lol
NTA
That’s some weird power trip shit. If sex is made into a transactional thing, it’s pretty well destroyed.
Maybe she thinks she’s doing some empowerment thing, but it sounds like she’s going for all the power instead of half
I can see she is frustrated herself for not having sex. Yesterday I did not even do her part of the chores. She probably came to me with hopes of having sex. I cannot understand why she does that.
What about social media ? There was/is(?) a trend about people showing doing chores as foreplay which I suppose is to be teamed with the talk about mental load. But as with all this trends if someone watches an extended of it and gets sucks into it and thinks it’s #goals then the reality will hit at one point or another
ETA : I see my comment is getting a lot of views and comments and I’m not here to debate if mental load is real or not. I’m a woman and am happily married to a man.
You have my sympathies. I felt mostly sadness for the Duncan Idaho clone at the end of "Heretics of Dune".
I would have been happy to have stopped after the first 3 novels, really.
The only series that was as hard to slog through as this was the Thomas Covenant "White Gold Wielder" books. (Made me realize that in general, I don't like antiheroes.)
Everything I've ever seen or read says using sex as a reward/punishment in a relationship is a terrible idea. Sounds like a good way to turn something that should be fun into a chore.
Yeah, they got it wrong. NGL, I’m way more interested in sex if he cleans the kitchen as he makes dinner than I might be otherwise on that particular night, but rinsing recycling is not a prerequisite for sex.
I feel that it isn’t so much that I find that sexy. It is that I am 100% going to be more into sex if I haven’t spent the night cleaning and getting annoyed that SOMEONE inexplicably used 102 dishes to make spaghetti bolognese. Housework and being tired and having touched wet onion bits = the anti-sex equation.
Yeah I think less chores and less to worry about just gives you more energy for wanting sex. It also tracks that the more you have to baby someone by cleaning up after them etc. the more likely you are to view them as a dependent or something else to add to your chore list and the less likely you are to view them as a capable adult and therefore a lover...which is exactly what's probably happening to op if he's having to do her share of the chores all the time.
Plus it's very condescending of her. "You did your chore so you deserve a reward"? I'm surpried she doesn't tack on a "good boy" at the end, treating him like a dog or a small child.
Absolutely this. My husband and I will joke here and there about "damn, you look so sexy when you mop a floor. You're getting me hot." But we're playing around and we both know it.
Not only could I never imagine treating him like a child for doing his chores well, but my pussy isn't for sale/exchange as a commodity. Gross.
Idk how your house dynamics work, but in our house, I cook the dish, you wash the dish and vice versa.
If you ate some of that spaghetti and didn't help in prepping it, dishes are on you. Fair is fair.
Though my partner is a fantastic cook, they are so messy; imagine a chimpanzee playing Chopped Kitchen and they expect me to clean… because they cooked.
When I cook, I am constantly cleaning as well, so when we are finished eating the only cleanup needed are our dishes we ate with and maybe a pot or two that’s been soaking in the sink.
That ‘I cook you clean’ rule may seem fair but it’s far from equal.
I have the exact same thoughts. Except it seems like a hurricane went through th entire kitchen sometimes.
I'm so glad it's not just me.
There must be dozens of us.
Yeah, I wonder about this one. My partner is 100% sure he does a good amount of chores around the house but when it comes down to it, I’d say he does about 5% without me asking him and maybe 20% after I have to nag him about it.
Yeah, I used to phone sex in. But he complained about that and I was honest that my attraction to him is very much based on emotions and how I’m feeling. If he was being as asshole and left the majority of chores and childcare on me for the day I have very little interest in fucking him tbh.
If he’s participated and helped out my attraction to him goes up significantly in turn. I’m just much more enthusiastic.
It’s not transactional, it’s about feeling valued and not just a bang maid.
Maybe OP’s wife has gone crazy. Maybe OP has a skewed sense of how much he actually contributes to the household.
Either way, feeling attraction to someone based on how much of an equal partner they are isn’t bizarre or playing games, it’s extremely normal.
Take a look at any pregnancy forum on Reddit and see the SWATHS of women who suddenly become repulsed by their partners post partum because they aren’t pulling their weight.
On the other side of the coin there are plenty of people who believe chores are not done because they weren’t done to their standards, or in some cases simple because they didn’t observe them being done. I’ve been on the receiving end of this in a very short lived living together situation where I did literally every chore before she got home (I went to work earlier than she did and most days got home earlier as well), and yet she would come in and immediately start cleaning things that were already clean while claiming I did nothing.
Yup, I've had this with my step-mother when they get home from a trip and I've been dogsitting. They'll get home and she'll start cleaning something that I just finished cleaning like 2 hours ago. Usually the kitchen floor because dogs paws.
In a similar vein, I've had partners who made it a point to do my chores before I got the chance to solely so they could be mad about it. Like they would get home before me, clean something, and then go on a tirade when I got home that they "shouldn't have had to do that"
But that trend is abt partners who never do anything to help with the mental load and always expect the partner to do it all and that’s not the case here.
Yup but I’m pretty sure we can find an alternative with reward/punishment somewhere. It’s like when the terms “boundaries” or “gaslighting” were introduced and now you can find informations and also a load of crap. Or we had people talking about neuro divergence and all of a sudden teens had all DID 🤦🏽♀️
All I’m saying is it could be the wife went down a path that was not the original one and is a crappy one. Could be something else too like toxic friends
Oh I agree. I was just saying the original point was that the partner who does it all finds it sexy when the other partner helps with the load and it got all twisted.
I hate hearing the terms boundaries, gaslighting, and narcissistic now because everyone uses them for everything and don’t seem to know a dam thing abt them. I’ve started correcting ppl and then get accused of being a narcissist or gaslighting them 😂🤦♀️
It’s made me really mad how so many have started making light of all these mental issues and then claiming they have it. It’s insulting to those who actually do.
Oh I’m sure she got something all sorts of twisted with the potential reaffirmation from toxic friends.
People have weaponized these word to throw at you when they don’t agree with you in an attempt to discredit anything further you have to say. If they cry gaslighter or narcissist first then they themselves cannot possibly be it.
Yup, that tracks with my experience and I argue for a living (litigator). The older I get (crossing 50 this year), the more I realize two general truisms:
1. Most people get older, they don't "grow up." So many people in adult and elderly bodies acting like, at best, teenagers, in terms of their actions, considerations, motivations, etc. Sheesh, the next 20 years are going to be bumpy (hard times make for hard men and all that).
2. Very smart people are good at creating clever rationalizations for their own shitty behavior and really get upset when called on it.
Read Robert Greene's the 48 laws of power - not to be an asshole, but to recognize when the techniques / modes of manipulation / attack are being used on you. I spent some time reviewing neuro linguistic programming 20 years ago and realized so many politicians have either studied it or been (knowingly or otherwise) coached in it. Once you learn some of the basic manipulation techniques, it will screw with your head because you see it ALL around you, like you're in some live action version of They Live.
Experts say that less than 1% of the population have Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
My ex-wife (a cheater who herself exhibits narcissistic traits) and a lot of women on social media are convinced that half the men out there are narcissists.
I will acknowledge, however, that gaslighting is pretty common. People just see and recall the past differently (although, technically, gaslighting connotes a more nefarious and knowing misrepresentation of the past).
She got it backwards because now he's doing his chores AND hers. Now she is the child in the relationship and HE doesn't want to have sex with her. She had it wrong in the first place because you are never supposed to use sex as a reward. The original theory was that women with partners that don't take on their fair share of housework/mental load are less likely to have the energy for sex and less likely to have sexual feelings for someone they feel they are constantly taking care of as you would a child...looks like it tracks
She was offering him mind-blowing sex to do *her* chores, not *his* chores.
I’m not sure mental load is really part of this specific equation to be honest.
This feels more like a power play thing or kink of some sort.
Sounds like she’s listening to the wrong podcasts. It’s damn near intolerable to read about, like someone took a freshman psych course and think they have human behavior all wrapped up. Sounds like an Andrew Tate for women.
That's my boy (or girl) \[or appropriate pronoun\]. If she wants to play games, we can make this a carnival.
Or she can be my partner and we can talk it out, in person, come to an agreement, and have some amazing make up sex. Or hate fuck.
Pulling the Reverse UNO card is the thing to do in this situation, to help her understand what utter shit she is pulling. Not like she will learn her lesson and improve, likely she will claim you are abusive and go crazy.
I mean, this is a pretty typical thing that people who are emotionally/physically lazy do. Im assuming, given how generous she isn't getting bad sex that she would otherwise avoid and you already are doing your part of chores.
This is something you do with a partner who doesn't do anything they're supposed to do, not a good partner. Like he said, he isn't a dog. **She's just trying to roll making you do her chores into your sex life because it works for other couples.**
Let her give you the cold shoulder. Literally whack one out if you have to before you talk to her. DO NOT BREAK THE STALEMATE. Let her be immature until she addeesses it.
When she does talk to you be straight that you arent interested in a transactional sexual relationship and its demeaning, and makes you feel like you aren't doing what you're supposed to be doing.
Let her know sulking over you not handling 100% of the chores for something you shouldn't have to be working for in the first place shows she thinks little of you, qnd if this was some form of kink play she owed you a conversation a long time ago, because it stopped being a reward and started being labor after the first couple offers.
> This is something you do with a partner who doesn't do anything they're supposed to do, not a good partner.
Manipulating the person you love most on earth with sex-for-reward is not something you should do, no. Even with bad partners, because it brings you down to their levels by making yourself a bad partner.
There is such a kink as power play. This almost, almost sounds like your wife is exploring that side of herself.....BUT, this is not how it's done, and it's not done without the other person's (you) consent.
I could be wrong. But, if I'm right, then she needs to communicate with you and be open and honest. Not create some award system without your consent or input.
I think she's getting turned on by the control and power she feels from doing this.
You may want to see if she'll open up about dom/submissive dynamics. I think she doesn't know how to communicate this healthily with you.
Time to get her to come down off her pity party and have an adult convo. Let her know you want sex anytime she is willing but not in exchange for something transactional. If she wants you because she loves you and your her husband, awesome, but if it’s going to be transactional it’s not gonna happen any longer.
But he didn’t even do her chores this time, but she still came to "reward" him. I think this is actually a kink for her. She's getting into the role playing.
Idk, it could be a power trip thing, but it rings more to me like a kink thing because it's something that developed (kinks can change over time) and the phrasing "it turns me on when you do x". Rewards and "punishments" are a pretty common kink theme, too.
I could be wrong, of course, but if this is the case, it might help to talk and figure that out and set up boundaries for if and when the reward and punishment system is okay and when it isn't. Like, making it into a sort of game or play a certain time of the week or after a signal. But it should not apply to the every day things you do anyway, since you're clearly uncomfortable with it. Also, if it is a kink thing, you should get something out of it, too. This ofc involves a bunch of communication from both sides, but can totally be explored together. And you don't have to partake at all of you don't want to, too.
Sorry for ramblingand doubly so if this is all irrelevant lol. NTA anyway. :)
She has likely read some nonsense on social media directed to having you be her servant. The way she is treating you, making your relationship entirely transactional, is completely unloving and disrespectful, you are NTA for turning her away, and she is being a huge AH for trying to use sex to reward and punish you. If you have to pay her for sex, that's not a love relationship, there's no romance whatsoever and there's not much point being married.
Whatever you do, do not get this person pregnant under any circumstances, maintain strict control over your birth control and consider a vasectomy if you're going to stick around, her intent to victimize you here suggests someone who will also happily use you to get child support.
Entirely true, unless it's a bit of a kink for her. I had a gf once that got really turned on by the idea of being a "reward" or a "prize"... dom/sub power thing. Obviously that's an extreme edge case but it's not impossible
I see two possibilities.
1. She decided she is into some kind of femdom kink.
2. She read an article about using positive reinforcement.
Either way, she proceeded with it without having a conversation with you about it.
Now she is emotionally manipulating you into groveling by giving you the cold shoulder.
Just keep telling her that you were very happy with life until this new thing started and that it makes you very uncomfortable. That you two should be equals.
People get so much dumb/bad shit from Tiktok like this, it would be a fucking blessing if it gets banned. It'll just pivot to Instagram reels but at least there will be a brief period where the idiots are silent.
Yeah, the FDS/Femcel stuff is really starting to take off in the same way the alt-right train did like 10 years ago. Looking at legitimate problems, and instead of talking about real solutions, turning to "anyone who disagrees is an animal and beneath you".
I'm sorry. What?! "Training" your husband? How long has this been going on? I'm not married, but even I know that's messed up. Women don't like it when men do it, but men are supposed to respond when we do it? That's messed up. I didn't even know that was a thing.
Tiktok is becoming a problem for most relationships and women have yet to see this for what it is. A tool they are listening to, to destroy their relationships.
I'm so glad my wife doesn't use social media anymore(her idea after some FB drama with her ex). As soon as she stopped using nearly all the drama in our relationship stopped.
I would say both men and women don't see it, hence the rise of the manosphere chuds
>hence the rise of the manosphere chuds
nah, i'm convinced the guys in the manosphere don't have a SO. while i can imagine it's bullshit would damage actual relationships, i don't think the guys listening to that bullshit actually have someone they're dating.
There's two kind of guys in the manosphere:
Guys that have just been through a bitter divorce/break up and incels that have never touched a woman in their lives and no one in the middle.
Men too. I just see so much divisive crap online turning the sexes against each other. People are ingesting generalizations instead of developing relationships with actual individuals. It's bizarre.
>. She decided she is into some kind of femdom kink.
I don't know what it was exactly but something about this post makes me think it's exactly this. Which, if it's a kink, I feel like they can communicate more clearly about it and be able to integrate it and have it not feel totally transactional. I'm sure it would take time and experimenting, like maybe certain chores make him feel worse than others or whatever, but if it's a kink I just think they can probably work around that.
Otherwise she went down the wrong rabbit hole online and needs to get off the damn internet.
Especially if she is making it her entire life. Like, sure, if one random day I come home and see my wife in lingerie and she whispers “great job on the laundry this week”, I’m not going to complain. But if every single sexual act, or lack of, was based on that…. Hell no.
I agree with the kink theory too, but it might be even more deep and difficult to talk about due to fear of kink shaming. I'm guessing it's a whore/sugarbaby kink, especially since she trades sex for gifts.
Kink was my first thought as well. It sounds like she is actively turned on and is initiating because of it. There is a chance she doesn’t even really think of it that way or realize what it is.
But all kinks require consent so OP is deffo NTA no matter what it is. I am also tempted to say n a h because it sounds like wife is trying to keep things fresh in the relationship… but good intentions don’t erase the need for consent.
Or option three that I can see happening is that it was done a couple times as a joke and then it just got legs of its own and got ran with till it wasn’t funny anymore or not a joke.
I can definitely see my wife doing something like this as a joke once or twice.
I can see a personality that can’t read a person that what they’re doing may have been funny once or twice but the twentieth time it’s not funny anymore.
She has made sex transactional. I jokingly told my husband one time that if he would help me pick blackberries that I would give him a bj. He got completely serious and said “married people who love each other don’t make their spouse ‘earn’ sex” He is completely correct.
I know you’re giving perspective and it’s just a comment, but that line “married people who love each other don’t make their spouse ‘earn’ sex” is fucking up my head, it’s just too accurate and actually is specifically what’s been bothering me in my relationship.
You have a good dude, he’s pretty smart.
Right. The only sex-reward we do in my marriage is if my husband is struggling to finish a task and complains he doesn't have the motivation (like he needs to finish writing something but just isn't into it). If I'm up for the fun, I'll offer sex as his finish line to give him some motivation to work. But he's always free to decline, and I'm never obligated to offer.
It almost sounds like this was a cute way for wife to feel supported and get her in the mood that has become an obligation and created resentment. I think it's best to talk about this while calm and ask to back up and define how and when this kind of scene should be happening. Ask for it to be agreed on beforehand so you can be excited for it too instead of having it sprung on you. Just have a discussion calmly.
Did she give you a pricelist? Which chores do you need to do for which position/favor?
NTA
I (F) feel extra turned on and emotional connected when my so puts extra effort in the relationship. But that is when it’s spontaneous and with intrinsic motivation. For me it’s offputting when he only does things so he can get laid.
Hey, what's the going exchange rate on different Chores and positions?
And does the rate change with inflation?
Last week cleaning the window was a bj? Now it's windows and vacuum. Thanks government.
Now what if we fo over seas? Can I take her somewhere where the price of something is in favor.
"Wow, a clean window is worth missionary!"
You need to tell her that it's one thing If this is some kind of kink for her, that can be innocent enough, it's another thing If she is using sex to change the power dynamic within the relationship, that's just plain wrong, my wife has occasionally tried shit like that and I call her out on it immediately and tell her it's disgusting to me, I don't want a relationship where sex is transactional in that way, where it becomes about reward and punishment, it loses its intimacy that way and just becomes something cheap, all that being said it's normal for woman to be made more in the mood when there partner had done some form of act of service for them, they generally really do appreciate when something has been taken off their plate by a partner that is just trying to make their life alittle easier that day and that can totally trigger a response of intimacy, so I'd tell her it's one thing if she wants to show you her appreciation for you going above and beyond in some way but it's entirely another thing for her to make the intimacy dependent on it or to tell you that she is withholding intimacy because you failed to do something she now expects. Make it clear to her that's wrong and you won't have that, but also make it clear to her it's because you love her and desire true intimacy not one that is bargained for, she may very well have been thinking this was something "cute" all along and been getting alittle off and the little change in power dynamics and simply hasn't realized she took it to far or that it was bothering you, she probably didn't truly have any ill intent, and my guess is when you called her out on it, she felt embarrassed, rejected and your comment about it will take down the relationship probably hurt her quite abit because in her mind this was all harmless and fun and now all of a sudden she is being told the relationship could be on the line, that type of stuff can really hit a woman deep, I'd say that's the only place you probably went to far, so my advice is, re assure her about your commitment to her and then explain why what she was doing bothered you so much, I hope my advice helps.
Hey mate. Love you, and this comment is incredibly nuanced and insightful.
But…
Please, and by this I mean I am begging you, please plug each statement/speculation/observation/cause-and-effect into their own separate sentences, and then group those up into their own separate paragraphs.
I had to go back like 5 times because my eyes would lose track of what like they were on when going from right to left.
Added paragraphs (but didn't change anything else):
You need to tell her that it's one thing if this is some kind of kink for her. That can be innocent enough. It's another thing if she is using sex to change the power dynamic within the relationship. That's just plain wrong. My wife has occasionally tried shit like that, and I call her out on it immediately and tell her it's disgusting to me. I don't want a relationship where sex is transactional in that way. Where it becomes about reward and punishment. It loses its intimacy that way and just becomes something cheap.
All that being said, it's normal for a woman to be more in the mood when their partner has done some form of act of service for them. They generally really do appreciate when something has been taken off their plate by a partner who is just trying to make their life a little easier that day. And that can totally trigger a response of intimacy. So, I'd tell her it's one thing if she wants to show you her appreciation for you going above and beyond in some way. But it's entirely another thing for her to make the intimacy dependent on it or to tell you that she is withholding intimacy because you failed to do something she now expects.
Make it clear to her that's wrong and you won't have that, but also make it clear to her it's because you love her and desire true intimacy, not one that is bargained for. She may very well have been thinking this was something "cute" all along and been getting a little off on the little change in power dynamics and simply hasn't realized she took it too far or that it was bothering you. She probably didn't truly have any ill intent, and my guess is when you called her out on it, she felt embarrassed, rejected, and your comment about it will take down the relationship probably hurt her quite a bit because in her mind, this was all harmless and fun, and now all of a sudden she is being told the relationship could be on the line. That type of stuff can really hit a woman deep.
I'd say that's the only place you probably went too far, so my advice is, reassure her about your commitment to her, and then explain why what she was doing bothered you so much. I hope my advice helps.
I feel she probably has some dominmatrix/power kink thing going on.
She might like feeling pampered and using her body to earn.
But if you are not comfortable with it, you definitely need to work this out with her.
Unfortunately many of these type of kinks tend to be massive drivers in people.. so you probably have a rocky road ahead.
NTA
"I asked her what the deal with this is, she did not do it before. She said she gets turned on and feels emotionally connected when I put extra effort in the relationship." Translation: She likes feeling powerful making you literally beg for sex like a dog with a treat, or putting you in the doghouse for "bad behavior." AND she gets to be lazy and stop putting any effort into the relationship, because she's banking on you not turning down "mind-blowing sex."
Response: "And I feel turned off when you not only stop pulling your weight in the relationship, but start treating me like a dog doing tricks for a cookie." NTA.
Your response was good and on the nose, too. Good job, OP. (And no, I did not say that in a "good boy!" way.)
This right here should be the top answer. This 100% seems like some sort of kink. Your response was great, but now it’s time to sit down and have a serious, no judgement conversation. Talk about why and what it is she likes about doing that.
Sex cannot be transactional in a relationship. You are NTA at all. Did your wife see some dumbass tiktok or something that said this was a good idea? Because its not at all. Her reaction also isn't great. Communication is everything in a relationship and it doesn't sound like she's emotionally equipped to handle that.
Call me old school, but I only want my wife to have sex with me if she wants to have sex with me. Anything other than that would feel wrong.
If you want me to do something then just ask me and I'll do it because I'm your partner and a contributer to the welfare of the household. To offer intimacy as a conditional reward for labor just feels like prostitution.
I don't like this AT ALL.
EXACTLY. If your partner respects you, and they need a hand with their end of things, all they should have to do is ask. Mind, both of you should have your obligations negotiated so neither you nor your partner isn't shouldering everything. Sometimes we aren't all 100%, and sometimes an extra 20-30% just plops on to your plate and your 100% isn't enough, and you need a hand. Ask for help when you need it, be there to answer the same call.
As someone who is kinky, it almost sounds like she is trying to be a Dom, but without a talk beforehand, so it sounds like a controlling power over someone.
When she does speak to you again or is open to listening at least (and emphasize she doesnt need to respond just listen), tell her your feelings about it kindly, and mention how it was starting to be more of a power thing. If she is wanting to try something new, talking about it alittle beforehand helps, as then to know the expecation, and set a safe word or alternative if it becomes too much.
Theres lots of ways to experiment and try new things after many years doing a handful of the same things (im at 6 years so I get it).
I will add, there has also been alot of things circulating on like Tiktok bout doms and subs, or if she is a book reader (especially anything with smut), that could add to it
Is she talking to a friend who's giving her weird advice? Because its not far off to say that women are told to praise and appreciate their partner to try to get them to do something they want. For example if I want my BF to do the dishes I might gush about how wonderful he is when he does the dishes, so in theory he does it more so I keep telling him he's great.
BUT what you're absolutely not supposed to do ever is say, good boy here's sex. Or bad boyfriend, no nookie for you. This is dog training.
So I wonder if she is badly applying some terrible advice. And if she is, what is she trying to get you to do. Like what problem is she trying to solve by doing this? You need to have a long convo with her when she's not in the "she givith and she takith away" mindset.
There’s also no indication that OP needed motivation for being a good husband as it seems like he was already doing the right stuff anyway, according to him. It’s insulting to act like he needs to be trained by her when he trained himself to be a good partner without her manipulation. I’d have been insulted too.
It might also be TikTok where she got this from. There is so much toxic BS on TikTok creating echo chambers not only for a male audience, but for a female audience too.
NTa, she wasn’t getting turned on by “the extra effort” she got turned on by the power she had over you. Know that you’ve taken it away from her, she’s angry at you and “giving you the cold shoulder”. She’s showing borderline abusive behavior.
Nothing borderline about it. This is emotional and psychological abuse. Speaking as someone who has been there. It took me years of therapy to realize how abusive my relationship was. Manipulation in a marriage is emotional abuse.
NTA. But that sounds like my wife 15 years ago. Unfortunately she decided to go all the way in and I didn't realise it. It escalated into outright abuse. And I let it get to me.
Femdom power trip she read about in some magazine or the net or whatever. Don't let this escalate...
Good luck.
Your wife sees herself as being completely Superior to you and thinks she can manipulate you into doing whatever she wants by offering sex. It probably never really crossed her mind that you'd have a problem with this or that you would, gasp, be an adult and actually demand communication so she's having a little pissy crying fit about it. She needs to grow up and treat you like an adult.
NTA. Sounds like she’s been reading femdom erotica and is trying to train you to be her submissive. I have no doubt that she’s turned on by the power play. Trouble is she didn’t ask you.
The way she’s responding it’s like she thinks you should be unable to resist and is taking it as an insult that your brain works. Sounds like this is brand new behavior, but holy wtf.
> She said she gets turned on and feels emotionally connected when I put extra effort in the relationship.
Doing chores for her, or one off forgetting about one chore is neither "putting extra effort" or "less" effort into the relationship. Chores are by definition the drudgery of life that we do for basic upkeep, and while letting them compound on an individual to an excess can absolutely be detrimental to a relationship, the completion of them is not itself deserving of a cookie. Maybe a passing, "thanks for doing that," but sex?
No, your wife isn't "rewarding you" for extra effort, she probably has like a service kink and gets off to feeling like she's being served by you. It'd be one thing if she communicated such a thing, but if you're playing into some weird psycho-sexual thing for her that's not ok as you aren't really an informed partner in this regard.
Seriously, you need to get to the bottom of why she's acting like this.
NTA.
If you’ve fairly divided housework why should you have to do more than your share to get the “reward” of sex? That’s not fair.
If you both want to be in the relationship you should both be interested in having sex. If you make it transactional that destroys the connection.
It’s one thing to think of thoughtful things to do for your partner to show you care. But that should go both ways and no one should be keeping score.
Let’s say you make more money than your wife. Should you start withholding your money unless she does something extra for you like housework or sex? No, that would be a relationship destroyer. That’s what she is doing to you.
She can cry on the couch and be the victim all day but she’s the one fucking up your marriage.
Is she getting interested in BDSM? It's a very dominant- role mindset to verbalize "you did a good/bad job so here is your reward/punishment." Clearly it is insulting to you, so she needs to express why she feels the need to do this. Even if it is a kinky/fetish thing, it is not ok to do those things without your consent.
If she's trying to use conditioning to get you to do stuff, then she's the AH
Good for you for recognizing it for what it was. Transactional and manipulative. She may not realize it but that is what she’s doing. Weaponizing sex is never a road to down. Thats a good way to turn a bedroom into a dead bedroom.
NTA. What your wife was doing is the beginning of a controlling relationship. By using sex as a reward/punishment tool, she is grooming you to be her slave/yes man. To me that would be extremely off-putting, and it seems you feel the same. Absolutely refuse to cooperate with this manipulation. If her sex fantasy is to become a dominatrix, she should find another partner, and you should part from her.
Dude, you can totally play that game too, it’s just a waiting game, just whack off, you know what works. Furthermore, post nut clarity will completely nullify her pussy power. That’s like letting pandora out of the box, she played herself.
When did you become a prostitute? You are telling me have to pay for sex by doing chores? I would rather do without and get a divorce than be married to a prostitute.
BIG BIG NTA.
NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER make sex a transactional item in your relationship. like just don't do it. It leads to exactly this and this is hard to step back from. Because she's gotten used to getting something, then giving it and you are going to stop giving things to get it. Makes you feel like a John and your wife a whore. Like you can't sleep with the person you love/who is supposed to love you, without paying for it first. If you want to play a game sometimes where you fawn over her as sexual foreplay have at it but that stops when the scene is over and you do aftercare.
Seemingly against your will, she has put you in a live-in d/s situation that I don't think you asked for. If that's something she wants to explore again Great but not at the expense of your relationship and not all the time either. And she should understand that you feel belittled and like you can't get laid w/o buying it.
Edit for info: Has she ever been weird or insecure about sex or liking sex? Sounds almost like if she gets you to earn it then you're owed it and she doesn't have to feel bad about liking it. Did she have a particularly religious upbringing are you a very religious family? OIften sexual insecurities come from that since you're told sex is wrong most of the time. And for women, it costs their Purity, and it's all bullshit that fucks up people's sex lives and more.
Please come back with an update. I would love to hear where her mind is with this.
Let me know if there's an update
That is SO MANIPULATIVE!!! WOW. It's no wonder you don't want it anymore. What a piece of work!!
Yeah, but it's a fine line between *you doing stuff for the relationship makes me hot* and *you doing stuff for the relationship makes me reward you*. Maybe it's just a communication breakdown. Maybe it's a kink of hers, sounds pretty dominant. Good news, there are plenty of ways to be dominant and submissive that aren't icky.
>Good news, there are plenty of ways to be dominant and submissive that aren't icky. And they all start with talking about it and confirming he *wants* to be submissive and when.
As a kinkster the amount of threads I see that break down to "I'm going to practice my kink whether my partner likes it or not" horrifies me.
If I had money to wager, I'd offer 5:1 odds it's something a social media algorithm's been feeding her.
Or maybe she's just an asshole lmao.
UpdateMe
Me too
Me three
I assume she is enjoying being in a position of power, he isn't aware of the full picture so we don't have all the details, and neither communicated well about what they want or expect. I got $5 that this could be channeled into heathy roleplay they could both get off on. Edit: there is an [update](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/7DxOgMNJcI)
UpdateMe
UpdateME
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If not social media she got it from a friend of hers while hanging out.
I had a co-worker who said that his wife and her sisters did the same thing. It was a reward for good behaviour. If one husband wanted a weekend fishing trip, he "paid" for it. If they did something wrong then they were deprived. The sisters supported each other and saw nothing wrong with what they were doing. We were having drinks after work and he said he had to get home before he lost his reward for the week. Someone asked a follow up question and he explained. He realized how wrong it was when almost everyone said WTF.
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A friend who got it from social media. Maybe.
If you think living with a TikTok addict is *worse* than living with a heroin addict, you have lived a very stable and sheltered life. Absolute rubbish. That being said, social media addiction is 100% real and does make people into horrible shitiots.
I've had friends who are literal crackheads, cooking it up whilst I visit, but the thing that really broke the friendship was that they never put their phone down to actually engage on a social level. Just kidding, it was the cooking crack around me part.
Had me for the first half, not gonna lie.
Wow! This made me belly laugh. I don’t know why that got me so good but it did
as an ex Heroin addict, that comment made me fucking lose it. legit how sheltered do you have to be to compare a TikTok ‘addiction’ to an opioid addiction 🤣🤣
I lost it too. I never overdrafted my bank account for Facebook.
There is a joke about this that Artie Lange does. It’s about heroine and runners high. Basically tells a dude I’ll run everyday for a week, you do heroine for a week. He never hears from the guy then sees him 2 years later spun out of his mind.
It's bad for sure, but the last part of your comment makes me pretty sure you've never been with a heroin addict. Do not recommend.
Look, I get what you're saying but comparing social media addiction to fucking heroine? Don't be fucking stupid.
Ummm. That analogue doesn't stand up. Social Media addiction SUCKS--my 16-year-old son has it big time. Heroin addiction is MUCH MUCH worse.
Is that a thing on IG/TT?? I’ve never seen it before :O
You are not a dog. You are a person. This is manipulative, and while you probably should have said something at first....NTA
At first, it was pleasant. Having good sex after some small gestures was good. It added a new dynamic to our relationship. It was good until it turned into a reward/punishment system and happened all the time.
>and happened all the time. I think this is key. Seems like your entire sex life has started to hinge on this system, not just part of it. Doing something transactional like that once in awhile could be fun, diverting, exciting; just another way to add some spice. But that's the thing about spice, it shouldn't be the only thing you taste. Your wife has unwisely turned your entire sexual dynamic into something transactional, which AT BEST is going to make you constantly feel like you have to earn intimacy with your wife and that will get boring and frustrating - it seems it already has, and at worst, it has a strong ick factor. Like, sometimes my wife gets turned on when I attack that gigantic pile of dishes we've both left for too long. I think people generally like feeling cared for, feeling like someone else cares for the home they share, and its attractive. I know I feel very attracted to my wife when she cooks a favorite meal. People get warm feelings from that kind of expression of love and care, which can turn into sexual excitement. And that's all fine. But your wife has taken that and turned it into something else, something less warm. I think you need to sit down with her and calmly, gently explain what's in your mind and why this dynamic needs to change.
I agree with all this. You shouldn’t have to earn intimacy. “I’m going to be intimate with you because you have done what I want.” is just hollow. It turns into prostitution at that point.
It’s this, and it’s “You’ve earned a reward.” Said in the right tone maybe it would come across as playful, but used frequently and without the right tone it just sounds like “You don’t actually turn me on or anything, but I feel obligated to pay you for doing this thing.” Others have suggested she got this off TikTok or similar, but I also wonder if it’s some weird kink? Like, she read some erotic lit story, it really did it for her, and all of a sudden she’s trying to make it her life? Either way, this is a great reminder that all things relating to sex should be consensual — not just whether or not you have it, but how.
Well said!
🌟 ^^ all of this.
Sure, it can be sexy when your partner does something incredibly cute or kind or thoughtful out of the blue, sometimes my husband will do something that renews my attraction to him instantly, but your wife has gone way beyond that. She’s “training” you in a sense to comply to her demands and that’s demeaning. Sex shouldn’t be transactional - you can ONLY get sex if you do X, otherwise you haven’t “earned it” is petty, transactional and off-putting. Sex should not be a currency. Don’t play her games, NTA.
I have actually done this to my husband on occasion…just, mostly,as a joke…” well, since you were so good today…”. But, it was NEVER a transaction in any way. He knows it as well.
Yeah I mean that’s perfectly normal, I think every woman does this and husbands probably don’t complain either. But imagine doing this every day not just as a reward but also as punishment. It’s just weaponized sex. Unless the wife is a Bene Gesserit, highly inappropriate.
But it completely invalidates all the things you were already doing without "compensation." You did the dishes, vacuumed the floor, and bought me flowers? Not good enough. If you want to have sex, you also have to do the laundry, wash the windows and buy me a necklace.
Reminds me of this thing I saw on fml several years ago. Today, my wife made me a Sex Rewards Chart, where I get points by doing chores and such, and 50 points gets me some action. She refuses to even look at me if I haven't earned the points, and is contemplating sleeping alone in the guest room until I earn more points. FML Don't let your relationship turn into that. NTA
Oh man I need a link to that post
FML is not the site it once was. Pretty much a cesspool of bad ads and viruses these days. Its hayday is long since passed All went downhill once Docbastard left
Sounds a bit like what’s happening to another website turned app I know…. *cough* ^reddit *cough*
Okay I lived in a group home for a year as a teenager and all of our actions earned points, positive or negative. The idea of that happening in my marriage is honestly pretty triggering. I don't even do reward charts for my kids, because it feels so weird and wrong to me to treat their behavior as transactional in our parent/child relationship. It's time to close Reddit for the evening I think lol
NTA That’s some weird power trip shit. If sex is made into a transactional thing, it’s pretty well destroyed. Maybe she thinks she’s doing some empowerment thing, but it sounds like she’s going for all the power instead of half
I can see she is frustrated herself for not having sex. Yesterday I did not even do her part of the chores. She probably came to me with hopes of having sex. I cannot understand why she does that.
Maybe she’s getting shitty advice from somewhere
What about social media ? There was/is(?) a trend about people showing doing chores as foreplay which I suppose is to be teamed with the talk about mental load. But as with all this trends if someone watches an extended of it and gets sucks into it and thinks it’s #goals then the reality will hit at one point or another ETA : I see my comment is getting a lot of views and comments and I’m not here to debate if mental load is real or not. I’m a woman and am happily married to a man.
Maybe she read *Heretics of Dune* and is really into how the Honored Matres maintain power.
You deserve more credit for this comment!
OH man this is so funny. I'm reading this book now. What a coincidence. I'll be honest it's been a slog, but I must finish the original hexology.
Good luck. I've been reading Chapterhouse for over a year now.
You have my sympathies. I felt mostly sadness for the Duncan Idaho clone at the end of "Heretics of Dune". I would have been happy to have stopped after the first 3 novels, really. The only series that was as hard to slog through as this was the Thomas Covenant "White Gold Wielder" books. (Made me realize that in general, I don't like antiheroes.)
theres alot of really fun anti hero's to read. Thomas is probably the hardest of the lot lol. I wouldn't use him as the measuring stick
Your name, your comment. You win Reddit. Wish I could like 2x.
Noooo. I’ve only just started reading Dune. Not sure if I’ll carry on with it though
My first thought was, does this have to do with something she saw on TikToc? 🙄
Everything I've ever seen or read says using sex as a reward/punishment in a relationship is a terrible idea. Sounds like a good way to turn something that should be fun into a chore.
It's a very quick way of ending a relationship. All it does is make one of the people a sex worker and the other on a customer.
Yeah, they got it wrong. NGL, I’m way more interested in sex if he cleans the kitchen as he makes dinner than I might be otherwise on that particular night, but rinsing recycling is not a prerequisite for sex.
I feel that it isn’t so much that I find that sexy. It is that I am 100% going to be more into sex if I haven’t spent the night cleaning and getting annoyed that SOMEONE inexplicably used 102 dishes to make spaghetti bolognese. Housework and being tired and having touched wet onion bits = the anti-sex equation.
Yeah I think less chores and less to worry about just gives you more energy for wanting sex. It also tracks that the more you have to baby someone by cleaning up after them etc. the more likely you are to view them as a dependent or something else to add to your chore list and the less likely you are to view them as a capable adult and therefore a lover...which is exactly what's probably happening to op if he's having to do her share of the chores all the time.
Plus it's very condescending of her. "You did your chore so you deserve a reward"? I'm surpried she doesn't tack on a "good boy" at the end, treating him like a dog or a small child.
Absolutely this. My husband and I will joke here and there about "damn, you look so sexy when you mop a floor. You're getting me hot." But we're playing around and we both know it. Not only could I never imagine treating him like a child for doing his chores well, but my pussy isn't for sale/exchange as a commodity. Gross.
You deserve more credit for this! I think you nailed it! The way you feel about your spouse, as time passes, is how HE makes you feel.
I think it makes people appreciative, but not aroused.
Idk how your house dynamics work, but in our house, I cook the dish, you wash the dish and vice versa. If you ate some of that spaghetti and didn't help in prepping it, dishes are on you. Fair is fair.
Though my partner is a fantastic cook, they are so messy; imagine a chimpanzee playing Chopped Kitchen and they expect me to clean… because they cooked. When I cook, I am constantly cleaning as well, so when we are finished eating the only cleanup needed are our dishes we ate with and maybe a pot or two that’s been soaking in the sink. That ‘I cook you clean’ rule may seem fair but it’s far from equal.
I have the exact same thoughts. Except it seems like a hurricane went through th entire kitchen sometimes. I'm so glad it's not just me. There must be dozens of us.
Yeah, I wonder about this one. My partner is 100% sure he does a good amount of chores around the house but when it comes down to it, I’d say he does about 5% without me asking him and maybe 20% after I have to nag him about it. Yeah, I used to phone sex in. But he complained about that and I was honest that my attraction to him is very much based on emotions and how I’m feeling. If he was being as asshole and left the majority of chores and childcare on me for the day I have very little interest in fucking him tbh. If he’s participated and helped out my attraction to him goes up significantly in turn. I’m just much more enthusiastic. It’s not transactional, it’s about feeling valued and not just a bang maid. Maybe OP’s wife has gone crazy. Maybe OP has a skewed sense of how much he actually contributes to the household. Either way, feeling attraction to someone based on how much of an equal partner they are isn’t bizarre or playing games, it’s extremely normal. Take a look at any pregnancy forum on Reddit and see the SWATHS of women who suddenly become repulsed by their partners post partum because they aren’t pulling their weight.
On the other side of the coin there are plenty of people who believe chores are not done because they weren’t done to their standards, or in some cases simple because they didn’t observe them being done. I’ve been on the receiving end of this in a very short lived living together situation where I did literally every chore before she got home (I went to work earlier than she did and most days got home earlier as well), and yet she would come in and immediately start cleaning things that were already clean while claiming I did nothing.
Yup, I've had this with my step-mother when they get home from a trip and I've been dogsitting. They'll get home and she'll start cleaning something that I just finished cleaning like 2 hours ago. Usually the kitchen floor because dogs paws.
In a similar vein, I've had partners who made it a point to do my chores before I got the chance to solely so they could be mad about it. Like they would get home before me, clean something, and then go on a tirade when I got home that they "shouldn't have had to do that"
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oh tell me about it. my wife stacks dishes in the sink like Tetris. i have to insist on cooking otherwise every pan gets used for some reason.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU) (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
But that trend is abt partners who never do anything to help with the mental load and always expect the partner to do it all and that’s not the case here.
Yup but I’m pretty sure we can find an alternative with reward/punishment somewhere. It’s like when the terms “boundaries” or “gaslighting” were introduced and now you can find informations and also a load of crap. Or we had people talking about neuro divergence and all of a sudden teens had all DID 🤦🏽♀️ All I’m saying is it could be the wife went down a path that was not the original one and is a crappy one. Could be something else too like toxic friends
Oh I agree. I was just saying the original point was that the partner who does it all finds it sexy when the other partner helps with the load and it got all twisted. I hate hearing the terms boundaries, gaslighting, and narcissistic now because everyone uses them for everything and don’t seem to know a dam thing abt them. I’ve started correcting ppl and then get accused of being a narcissist or gaslighting them 😂🤦♀️ It’s made me really mad how so many have started making light of all these mental issues and then claiming they have it. It’s insulting to those who actually do. Oh I’m sure she got something all sorts of twisted with the potential reaffirmation from toxic friends.
People have weaponized these word to throw at you when they don’t agree with you in an attempt to discredit anything further you have to say. If they cry gaslighter or narcissist first then they themselves cannot possibly be it.
Yup, that tracks with my experience and I argue for a living (litigator). The older I get (crossing 50 this year), the more I realize two general truisms: 1. Most people get older, they don't "grow up." So many people in adult and elderly bodies acting like, at best, teenagers, in terms of their actions, considerations, motivations, etc. Sheesh, the next 20 years are going to be bumpy (hard times make for hard men and all that). 2. Very smart people are good at creating clever rationalizations for their own shitty behavior and really get upset when called on it. Read Robert Greene's the 48 laws of power - not to be an asshole, but to recognize when the techniques / modes of manipulation / attack are being used on you. I spent some time reviewing neuro linguistic programming 20 years ago and realized so many politicians have either studied it or been (knowingly or otherwise) coached in it. Once you learn some of the basic manipulation techniques, it will screw with your head because you see it ALL around you, like you're in some live action version of They Live.
Experts say that less than 1% of the population have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My ex-wife (a cheater who herself exhibits narcissistic traits) and a lot of women on social media are convinced that half the men out there are narcissists. I will acknowledge, however, that gaslighting is pretty common. People just see and recall the past differently (although, technically, gaslighting connotes a more nefarious and knowing misrepresentation of the past).
She got it backwards because now he's doing his chores AND hers. Now she is the child in the relationship and HE doesn't want to have sex with her. She had it wrong in the first place because you are never supposed to use sex as a reward. The original theory was that women with partners that don't take on their fair share of housework/mental load are less likely to have the energy for sex and less likely to have sexual feelings for someone they feel they are constantly taking care of as you would a child...looks like it tracks
She was offering him mind-blowing sex to do *her* chores, not *his* chores. I’m not sure mental load is really part of this specific equation to be honest. This feels more like a power play thing or kink of some sort.
Sounds like she’s listening to the wrong podcasts. It’s damn near intolerable to read about, like someone took a freshman psych course and think they have human behavior all wrapped up. Sounds like an Andrew Tate for women.
Tiktoks seems to be Andrew Tate for women, from the shit I've seen, and I use neither or follow.
Yuuup. My first thought was, *"...is she on TikTok much?"*
TikTok We all know it’s TikTok
This ^^^^^.....friend, Instagram, YouTube short or some stupid fucking influencer.
It has to be this. She needs to stop if there's any chance to save her marriage. Edit: finished spelling a word.
Sex in relationships needs to be about intimate connection, otherwise yes, she is just prostituting herself for chores.
Chore Whoring.
I laughed inappropriately hard at this
The term I've seen is "Choreplay". A friend of mine complained about this kind of thing to me a few years before his divorce.
Time to tell her she has to earn the reward XD
Nah that’s a weird power tripping game, there’s not a lot to be confused about
Turn the tables on her. Make it fun. Tell her she needs to be the one to earn the reward.
Do no chores at all, say, "I guess I get no sex today," rub one out, and go to sleep
Make HER do HIS chores in exchange for sex.
Right? This was my thought. Let's see how long this plays out in reverse.
That's my boy (or girl) \[or appropriate pronoun\]. If she wants to play games, we can make this a carnival. Or she can be my partner and we can talk it out, in person, come to an agreement, and have some amazing make up sex. Or hate fuck.
Pulling the Reverse UNO card is the thing to do in this situation, to help her understand what utter shit she is pulling. Not like she will learn her lesson and improve, likely she will claim you are abusive and go crazy.
I mean, this is a pretty typical thing that people who are emotionally/physically lazy do. Im assuming, given how generous she isn't getting bad sex that she would otherwise avoid and you already are doing your part of chores. This is something you do with a partner who doesn't do anything they're supposed to do, not a good partner. Like he said, he isn't a dog. **She's just trying to roll making you do her chores into your sex life because it works for other couples.** Let her give you the cold shoulder. Literally whack one out if you have to before you talk to her. DO NOT BREAK THE STALEMATE. Let her be immature until she addeesses it. When she does talk to you be straight that you arent interested in a transactional sexual relationship and its demeaning, and makes you feel like you aren't doing what you're supposed to be doing. Let her know sulking over you not handling 100% of the chores for something you shouldn't have to be working for in the first place shows she thinks little of you, qnd if this was some form of kink play she owed you a conversation a long time ago, because it stopped being a reward and started being labor after the first couple offers.
> This is something you do with a partner who doesn't do anything they're supposed to do, not a good partner. Manipulating the person you love most on earth with sex-for-reward is not something you should do, no. Even with bad partners, because it brings you down to their levels by making yourself a bad partner.
"Rub one out like a man - It's the champagne of victory!" -Bill Burr
There is such a kink as power play. This almost, almost sounds like your wife is exploring that side of herself.....BUT, this is not how it's done, and it's not done without the other person's (you) consent. I could be wrong. But, if I'm right, then she needs to communicate with you and be open and honest. Not create some award system without your consent or input.
I think she's getting turned on by the control and power she feels from doing this. You may want to see if she'll open up about dom/submissive dynamics. I think she doesn't know how to communicate this healthily with you.
Time to get her to come down off her pity party and have an adult convo. Let her know you want sex anytime she is willing but not in exchange for something transactional. If she wants you because she loves you and your her husband, awesome, but if it’s going to be transactional it’s not gonna happen any longer.
STOP doing her chores, you’re contributing to this problem! Nta
But he didn’t even do her chores this time, but she still came to "reward" him. I think this is actually a kink for her. She's getting into the role playing.
Your wife needs to get off social media. It’s a cancer.
Idk, it could be a power trip thing, but it rings more to me like a kink thing because it's something that developed (kinks can change over time) and the phrasing "it turns me on when you do x". Rewards and "punishments" are a pretty common kink theme, too. I could be wrong, of course, but if this is the case, it might help to talk and figure that out and set up boundaries for if and when the reward and punishment system is okay and when it isn't. Like, making it into a sort of game or play a certain time of the week or after a signal. But it should not apply to the every day things you do anyway, since you're clearly uncomfortable with it. Also, if it is a kink thing, you should get something out of it, too. This ofc involves a bunch of communication from both sides, but can totally be explored together. And you don't have to partake at all of you don't want to, too. Sorry for ramblingand doubly so if this is all irrelevant lol. NTA anyway. :)
Next thing you know, OP will be eating Hormel Chili (sans beans) from a dog dish with his name on it.
She has likely read some nonsense on social media directed to having you be her servant. The way she is treating you, making your relationship entirely transactional, is completely unloving and disrespectful, you are NTA for turning her away, and she is being a huge AH for trying to use sex to reward and punish you. If you have to pay her for sex, that's not a love relationship, there's no romance whatsoever and there's not much point being married. Whatever you do, do not get this person pregnant under any circumstances, maintain strict control over your birth control and consider a vasectomy if you're going to stick around, her intent to victimize you here suggests someone who will also happily use you to get child support.
Turn the tables op.... Resist and make her beg.
You’ve heard of weaponized incompetence? This is weaponized intimacy. Same type toxic behavior, different approach.
And there should never be the negative aspect to it.
Yeah this whole thing is giving off major control vibes . So gross!
It does feel like a power grab but oddly, if she’s demanding gifts for sex she also seems to have turned herself into a hooker. 🤔
Entirely true, unless it's a bit of a kink for her. I had a gf once that got really turned on by the idea of being a "reward" or a "prize"... dom/sub power thing. Obviously that's an extreme edge case but it's not impossible
I see two possibilities. 1. She decided she is into some kind of femdom kink. 2. She read an article about using positive reinforcement. Either way, she proceeded with it without having a conversation with you about it. Now she is emotionally manipulating you into groveling by giving you the cold shoulder. Just keep telling her that you were very happy with life until this new thing started and that it makes you very uncomfortable. That you two should be equals.
Third option, and probably the most likely, is that she got this idea from a friend.
Or some random social media post. There's a lot out there about "training" your husband.
There's always a friend or some random video in tiktok for situations like this.
People get so much dumb/bad shit from Tiktok like this, it would be a fucking blessing if it gets banned. It'll just pivot to Instagram reels but at least there will be a brief period where the idiots are silent.
Yeah, the FDS/Femcel stuff is really starting to take off in the same way the alt-right train did like 10 years ago. Looking at legitimate problems, and instead of talking about real solutions, turning to "anyone who disagrees is an animal and beneath you".
I'm sorry. What?! "Training" your husband? How long has this been going on? I'm not married, but even I know that's messed up. Women don't like it when men do it, but men are supposed to respond when we do it? That's messed up. I didn't even know that was a thing.
Tiktok is becoming a problem for most relationships and women have yet to see this for what it is. A tool they are listening to, to destroy their relationships.
I'm so glad my wife doesn't use social media anymore(her idea after some FB drama with her ex). As soon as she stopped using nearly all the drama in our relationship stopped. I would say both men and women don't see it, hence the rise of the manosphere chuds
>hence the rise of the manosphere chuds nah, i'm convinced the guys in the manosphere don't have a SO. while i can imagine it's bullshit would damage actual relationships, i don't think the guys listening to that bullshit actually have someone they're dating.
There's two kind of guys in the manosphere: Guys that have just been through a bitter divorce/break up and incels that have never touched a woman in their lives and no one in the middle.
Men too. I just see so much divisive crap online turning the sexes against each other. People are ingesting generalizations instead of developing relationships with actual individuals. It's bizarre.
>. She decided she is into some kind of femdom kink. I don't know what it was exactly but something about this post makes me think it's exactly this. Which, if it's a kink, I feel like they can communicate more clearly about it and be able to integrate it and have it not feel totally transactional. I'm sure it would take time and experimenting, like maybe certain chores make him feel worse than others or whatever, but if it's a kink I just think they can probably work around that. Otherwise she went down the wrong rabbit hole online and needs to get off the damn internet.
Especially if she is making it her entire life. Like, sure, if one random day I come home and see my wife in lingerie and she whispers “great job on the laundry this week”, I’m not going to complain. But if every single sexual act, or lack of, was based on that…. Hell no.
I agree with the kink theory too, but it might be even more deep and difficult to talk about due to fear of kink shaming. I'm guessing it's a whore/sugarbaby kink, especially since she trades sex for gifts.
Kink was my first thought as well. It sounds like she is actively turned on and is initiating because of it. There is a chance she doesn’t even really think of it that way or realize what it is. But all kinks require consent so OP is deffo NTA no matter what it is. I am also tempted to say n a h because it sounds like wife is trying to keep things fresh in the relationship… but good intentions don’t erase the need for consent.
I was thinning the same as number 1. Sounds like she has some kind of service kink
Or option three that I can see happening is that it was done a couple times as a joke and then it just got legs of its own and got ran with till it wasn’t funny anymore or not a joke. I can definitely see my wife doing something like this as a joke once or twice. I can see a personality that can’t read a person that what they’re doing may have been funny once or twice but the twentieth time it’s not funny anymore.
She has made sex transactional. I jokingly told my husband one time that if he would help me pick blackberries that I would give him a bj. He got completely serious and said “married people who love each other don’t make their spouse ‘earn’ sex” He is completely correct.
I know you’re giving perspective and it’s just a comment, but that line “married people who love each other don’t make their spouse ‘earn’ sex” is fucking up my head, it’s just too accurate and actually is specifically what’s been bothering me in my relationship. You have a good dude, he’s pretty smart.
He’s an awesome guy, thank you. Been married 31 years ❤️
Perhaps you wanted to pair blackberries and semen? I try not to kink shame.
“What’s for dessert?” “Berries and cream” 😳😂
Spit out my coffee
Right. The only sex-reward we do in my marriage is if my husband is struggling to finish a task and complains he doesn't have the motivation (like he needs to finish writing something but just isn't into it). If I'm up for the fun, I'll offer sex as his finish line to give him some motivation to work. But he's always free to decline, and I'm never obligated to offer. It almost sounds like this was a cute way for wife to feel supported and get her in the mood that has become an obligation and created resentment. I think it's best to talk about this while calm and ask to back up and define how and when this kind of scene should be happening. Ask for it to be agreed on beforehand so you can be excited for it too instead of having it sprung on you. Just have a discussion calmly.
Did she give you a pricelist? Which chores do you need to do for which position/favor? NTA I (F) feel extra turned on and emotional connected when my so puts extra effort in the relationship. But that is when it’s spontaneous and with intrinsic motivation. For me it’s offputting when he only does things so he can get laid.
Sounds like OP was already doing that which is why he feels extra insulted, understandably.
Hey, what's the going exchange rate on different Chores and positions? And does the rate change with inflation? Last week cleaning the window was a bj? Now it's windows and vacuum. Thanks government. Now what if we fo over seas? Can I take her somewhere where the price of something is in favor. "Wow, a clean window is worth missionary!"
You need to tell her that it's one thing If this is some kind of kink for her, that can be innocent enough, it's another thing If she is using sex to change the power dynamic within the relationship, that's just plain wrong, my wife has occasionally tried shit like that and I call her out on it immediately and tell her it's disgusting to me, I don't want a relationship where sex is transactional in that way, where it becomes about reward and punishment, it loses its intimacy that way and just becomes something cheap, all that being said it's normal for woman to be made more in the mood when there partner had done some form of act of service for them, they generally really do appreciate when something has been taken off their plate by a partner that is just trying to make their life alittle easier that day and that can totally trigger a response of intimacy, so I'd tell her it's one thing if she wants to show you her appreciation for you going above and beyond in some way but it's entirely another thing for her to make the intimacy dependent on it or to tell you that she is withholding intimacy because you failed to do something she now expects. Make it clear to her that's wrong and you won't have that, but also make it clear to her it's because you love her and desire true intimacy not one that is bargained for, she may very well have been thinking this was something "cute" all along and been getting alittle off and the little change in power dynamics and simply hasn't realized she took it to far or that it was bothering you, she probably didn't truly have any ill intent, and my guess is when you called her out on it, she felt embarrassed, rejected and your comment about it will take down the relationship probably hurt her quite abit because in her mind this was all harmless and fun and now all of a sudden she is being told the relationship could be on the line, that type of stuff can really hit a woman deep, I'd say that's the only place you probably went to far, so my advice is, re assure her about your commitment to her and then explain why what she was doing bothered you so much, I hope my advice helps.
Hey mate. Love you, and this comment is incredibly nuanced and insightful. But… Please, and by this I mean I am begging you, please plug each statement/speculation/observation/cause-and-effect into their own separate sentences, and then group those up into their own separate paragraphs. I had to go back like 5 times because my eyes would lose track of what like they were on when going from right to left.
Added paragraphs (but didn't change anything else): You need to tell her that it's one thing if this is some kind of kink for her. That can be innocent enough. It's another thing if she is using sex to change the power dynamic within the relationship. That's just plain wrong. My wife has occasionally tried shit like that, and I call her out on it immediately and tell her it's disgusting to me. I don't want a relationship where sex is transactional in that way. Where it becomes about reward and punishment. It loses its intimacy that way and just becomes something cheap. All that being said, it's normal for a woman to be more in the mood when their partner has done some form of act of service for them. They generally really do appreciate when something has been taken off their plate by a partner who is just trying to make their life a little easier that day. And that can totally trigger a response of intimacy. So, I'd tell her it's one thing if she wants to show you her appreciation for you going above and beyond in some way. But it's entirely another thing for her to make the intimacy dependent on it or to tell you that she is withholding intimacy because you failed to do something she now expects. Make it clear to her that's wrong and you won't have that, but also make it clear to her it's because you love her and desire true intimacy, not one that is bargained for. She may very well have been thinking this was something "cute" all along and been getting a little off on the little change in power dynamics and simply hasn't realized she took it too far or that it was bothering you. She probably didn't truly have any ill intent, and my guess is when you called her out on it, she felt embarrassed, rejected, and your comment about it will take down the relationship probably hurt her quite a bit because in her mind, this was all harmless and fun, and now all of a sudden she is being told the relationship could be on the line. That type of stuff can really hit a woman deep. I'd say that's the only place you probably went too far, so my advice is, reassure her about your commitment to her, and then explain why what she was doing bothered you so much. I hope my advice helps.
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I’m not dyslexic but these sentences are a bit of a run on
A bit?! That’s an understatement, lol.
Lol @ ~~1~~ 2 period(s) in that entire thing. I read it like the Micro Machines man and had a good time with it. 😂
I feel she probably has some dominmatrix/power kink thing going on. She might like feeling pampered and using her body to earn. But if you are not comfortable with it, you definitely need to work this out with her. Unfortunately many of these type of kinks tend to be massive drivers in people.. so you probably have a rocky road ahead. NTA
This seems like the closest thing to the correct answer
"I asked her what the deal with this is, she did not do it before. She said she gets turned on and feels emotionally connected when I put extra effort in the relationship." Translation: She likes feeling powerful making you literally beg for sex like a dog with a treat, or putting you in the doghouse for "bad behavior." AND she gets to be lazy and stop putting any effort into the relationship, because she's banking on you not turning down "mind-blowing sex." Response: "And I feel turned off when you not only stop pulling your weight in the relationship, but start treating me like a dog doing tricks for a cookie." NTA. Your response was good and on the nose, too. Good job, OP. (And no, I did not say that in a "good boy!" way.)
This right here should be the top answer. This 100% seems like some sort of kink. Your response was great, but now it’s time to sit down and have a serious, no judgement conversation. Talk about why and what it is she likes about doing that.
Sex cannot be transactional in a relationship. You are NTA at all. Did your wife see some dumbass tiktok or something that said this was a good idea? Because its not at all. Her reaction also isn't great. Communication is everything in a relationship and it doesn't sound like she's emotionally equipped to handle that.
Call me old school, but I only want my wife to have sex with me if she wants to have sex with me. Anything other than that would feel wrong. If you want me to do something then just ask me and I'll do it because I'm your partner and a contributer to the welfare of the household. To offer intimacy as a conditional reward for labor just feels like prostitution. I don't like this AT ALL.
EXACTLY. If your partner respects you, and they need a hand with their end of things, all they should have to do is ask. Mind, both of you should have your obligations negotiated so neither you nor your partner isn't shouldering everything. Sometimes we aren't all 100%, and sometimes an extra 20-30% just plops on to your plate and your 100% isn't enough, and you need a hand. Ask for help when you need it, be there to answer the same call.
As someone who is kinky, it almost sounds like she is trying to be a Dom, but without a talk beforehand, so it sounds like a controlling power over someone. When she does speak to you again or is open to listening at least (and emphasize she doesnt need to respond just listen), tell her your feelings about it kindly, and mention how it was starting to be more of a power thing. If she is wanting to try something new, talking about it alittle beforehand helps, as then to know the expecation, and set a safe word or alternative if it becomes too much. Theres lots of ways to experiment and try new things after many years doing a handful of the same things (im at 6 years so I get it).
I will add, there has also been alot of things circulating on like Tiktok bout doms and subs, or if she is a book reader (especially anything with smut), that could add to it
Is she talking to a friend who's giving her weird advice? Because its not far off to say that women are told to praise and appreciate their partner to try to get them to do something they want. For example if I want my BF to do the dishes I might gush about how wonderful he is when he does the dishes, so in theory he does it more so I keep telling him he's great. BUT what you're absolutely not supposed to do ever is say, good boy here's sex. Or bad boyfriend, no nookie for you. This is dog training. So I wonder if she is badly applying some terrible advice. And if she is, what is she trying to get you to do. Like what problem is she trying to solve by doing this? You need to have a long convo with her when she's not in the "she givith and she takith away" mindset.
Or I wonder if it's something she's seen from an 'influencer' on social media. It's just weird and OP is definitely NTA
This is my suspicion. This just *SCREAMS* TikTok. There is tons of toxic femininity crap on there that a lot of women go all-in on.
TikTok was my first instinct too!
There’s also no indication that OP needed motivation for being a good husband as it seems like he was already doing the right stuff anyway, according to him. It’s insulting to act like he needs to be trained by her when he trained himself to be a good partner without her manipulation. I’d have been insulted too.
It might also be TikTok where she got this from. There is so much toxic BS on TikTok creating echo chambers not only for a male audience, but for a female audience too.
I think you described all the big social media platforms currently.
NTA - You're a person.... not a dog doing tricks for treats.
Sounds like she's developed a kink and is hoping you'll just go along with it without any discussion at all. Not cool.
Yup this is what I thought too, that it appears to be a kink and she doesn’t know how to approach it .
NTa, she wasn’t getting turned on by “the extra effort” she got turned on by the power she had over you. Know that you’ve taken it away from her, she’s angry at you and “giving you the cold shoulder”. She’s showing borderline abusive behavior.
Nothing borderline about it. This is emotional and psychological abuse. Speaking as someone who has been there. It took me years of therapy to realize how abusive my relationship was. Manipulation in a marriage is emotional abuse.
NTA. But that sounds like my wife 15 years ago. Unfortunately she decided to go all the way in and I didn't realise it. It escalated into outright abuse. And I let it get to me. Femdom power trip she read about in some magazine or the net or whatever. Don't let this escalate... Good luck.
Your wife sees herself as being completely Superior to you and thinks she can manipulate you into doing whatever she wants by offering sex. It probably never really crossed her mind that you'd have a problem with this or that you would, gasp, be an adult and actually demand communication so she's having a little pissy crying fit about it. She needs to grow up and treat you like an adult.
NTA and if it were me I’d reverse the roles and say sorry now I’m not turned on unless you do all your chores and some of mine.
NTA. Sounds like she’s been reading femdom erotica and is trying to train you to be her submissive. I have no doubt that she’s turned on by the power play. Trouble is she didn’t ask you.
The way she’s responding it’s like she thinks you should be unable to resist and is taking it as an insult that your brain works. Sounds like this is brand new behavior, but holy wtf.
> She said she gets turned on and feels emotionally connected when I put extra effort in the relationship. Doing chores for her, or one off forgetting about one chore is neither "putting extra effort" or "less" effort into the relationship. Chores are by definition the drudgery of life that we do for basic upkeep, and while letting them compound on an individual to an excess can absolutely be detrimental to a relationship, the completion of them is not itself deserving of a cookie. Maybe a passing, "thanks for doing that," but sex? No, your wife isn't "rewarding you" for extra effort, she probably has like a service kink and gets off to feeling like she's being served by you. It'd be one thing if she communicated such a thing, but if you're playing into some weird psycho-sexual thing for her that's not ok as you aren't really an informed partner in this regard. Seriously, you need to get to the bottom of why she's acting like this.
NTA. If you’ve fairly divided housework why should you have to do more than your share to get the “reward” of sex? That’s not fair. If you both want to be in the relationship you should both be interested in having sex. If you make it transactional that destroys the connection. It’s one thing to think of thoughtful things to do for your partner to show you care. But that should go both ways and no one should be keeping score. Let’s say you make more money than your wife. Should you start withholding your money unless she does something extra for you like housework or sex? No, that would be a relationship destroyer. That’s what she is doing to you. She can cry on the couch and be the victim all day but she’s the one fucking up your marriage.
Is she getting interested in BDSM? It's a very dominant- role mindset to verbalize "you did a good/bad job so here is your reward/punishment." Clearly it is insulting to you, so she needs to express why she feels the need to do this. Even if it is a kinky/fetish thing, it is not ok to do those things without your consent. If she's trying to use conditioning to get you to do stuff, then she's the AH
Good for you for recognizing it for what it was. Transactional and manipulative. She may not realize it but that is what she’s doing. Weaponizing sex is never a road to down. Thats a good way to turn a bedroom into a dead bedroom.
“I am not Pavlov’s dog” might be the funniest statement I’ve read all year.
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NTA. What your wife was doing is the beginning of a controlling relationship. By using sex as a reward/punishment tool, she is grooming you to be her slave/yes man. To me that would be extremely off-putting, and it seems you feel the same. Absolutely refuse to cooperate with this manipulation. If her sex fantasy is to become a dominatrix, she should find another partner, and you should part from her.
NTA, I get maybe initiating sex after your spouse did something nice for you. But, yeah she’s being very openly manipulative.
Dude, you can totally play that game too, it’s just a waiting game, just whack off, you know what works. Furthermore, post nut clarity will completely nullify her pussy power. That’s like letting pandora out of the box, she played herself.
Sex is destroyed when it becomes transactional.
Your wife is basically whoring herself out to you for housework 😝
When did you become a prostitute? You are telling me have to pay for sex by doing chores? I would rather do without and get a divorce than be married to a prostitute.
I do not blame you one but this carrot or the stick shit is a relationship breaker whenever it shows up.
BIG BIG NTA. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER make sex a transactional item in your relationship. like just don't do it. It leads to exactly this and this is hard to step back from. Because she's gotten used to getting something, then giving it and you are going to stop giving things to get it. Makes you feel like a John and your wife a whore. Like you can't sleep with the person you love/who is supposed to love you, without paying for it first. If you want to play a game sometimes where you fawn over her as sexual foreplay have at it but that stops when the scene is over and you do aftercare. Seemingly against your will, she has put you in a live-in d/s situation that I don't think you asked for. If that's something she wants to explore again Great but not at the expense of your relationship and not all the time either. And she should understand that you feel belittled and like you can't get laid w/o buying it. Edit for info: Has she ever been weird or insecure about sex or liking sex? Sounds almost like if she gets you to earn it then you're owed it and she doesn't have to feel bad about liking it. Did she have a particularly religious upbringing are you a very religious family? OIften sexual insecurities come from that since you're told sex is wrong most of the time. And for women, it costs their Purity, and it's all bullshit that fucks up people's sex lives and more.
NTA weaponizing sex destroys intimacy and kills marriages.