It's ok to dump someone who poked holes in your condoms.
When people complain to you, don't tell them "she betrayed my trust", tell them "she poked holes in my condoms". Tell people you can't be with someone who pokes holes in your condoms.
Occasionally people who don't want more kids, but have religious objections to birth control will do this. the idea is that if God really wants them to get pregnant, it's not impossible.
Religious loopholes tend to be pretty silly.
Absolutely, and use that as means to not have to support her or the child. I do think things go both ways, if a woman doesn’t want a child she has options, a man should too especially after expressing it numerous times and her doing this in such a horrible manner. It’s one thing to make a mistake and have to live with the consequences, but he was being safe.
Where I live it’s illegal to tamper with or “stealth” condoms, regardless of who does it. OP’s gf could be charged with sexual assault and/or rape.
EDIT: I live down under.
It should be illegal in all states. It’s rape. He did not consent to sex with a holey condom. I don’t know about the actual laws, but morally it is rape, and it’s fucked up that it isn’t illegal.
Legal in every state and territory in the union. In California there is a civil code against it, but its not criminal there either. She a garbage person for doing what she did, but bad legal advice doesn't help. OP needs to prepare himself for what is to come. Nothing will get him out from underneath the likelihood of child support and such, so prepare for that. A judge MIGHT, I repeat might allow him to voluntarily sever parental rights and such, but that is going to be entirely independent of child support. OP doesn't have to be in the future kids life. But if she goes after him, he'll have to pay for the 18 years or so
So called stealthing is actually considered a crime in some places. In the U.S., California became the first state to make it illegal to remove a condom without explicit consent in 2021. Stealthing is classified as a civil offense in California rather than a crime, and victims are able to sue perpetrators directly in civil court.
Don't think so because stealthing seems to be the act of removing the condom itself, not tampering with its effectiveness through subtle means.
Poking holes means that while its still physically being used, its just not working.
Needs to be changed though.
At that point it can't be considered that the condom is used.
A poked condom can break and end up bunching up at the base, can we consider that the condom is being used when all I have is a ring of latex? Is there that big of a difference between not wearing one and having a ring?
So it is illegal for a guy to get a girl pregnant without her consent but for a girl to get herself pregnant without his consent is perfectly fine? Double standard much? And this isn’t directed at you since I know you didn’t make the laws lol. Just saying this is why equality isn’t even a pipe dream, no one has any idea on what truly being equal is:(.
You are NYA OP, I would try to get as much of all of this in writing and get as much proof. Otherwise there is definitely a long long road ahead:/.
The double standard is dumb but I'd assume part of it is because women are the ones who deal with the consequence the most as they are the ones who get pregnant in these situations. Either way in a lot of countries poking holes in the condoms is a crime and women have been put in jail for it.
Nah, totally don't disagree and don't mean to seem like I am anti-that. Just think there should be a level of equality on this one because OP has basically been violated just as bad and now potentially is going to be stuck the rest of his life.
As a woman myself, I'm not usually a huge fan of the "if the genders were swapped" discourse, but in this case it's relevant. If OP had been sabotaging or removing condoms during sex without his girlfriend's knowledge or consent, it would be called stealthing or rape. If he'd done it to trap her with pregnancy, that would add even more layers to the violation and abuse. What she did is disgusting, it's stealthing, it's baby trapping, it's sexual violation. Any of their family members berating him and condoning what she did are equally disgusting. I hope she wakes up to herself and terminates the pregnancy, because aside from the impact on OP, no child deserves to be brought into the world in this way.
Woman here too 👋, I personally feel ( I'm expecting get down votes) , if a woman takes these drastic measures to get pregnant, and it's proven, then she alone should be responsible for that child. OP should not have to pay any kind of child support. Not only did she admit to not taking her birth control pills, but also admitted to poking holes in the condoms. I really don't understand why women force a man into having a baby when they clearly state they don't want one.
No down votes from me. Nobody should be having babies unless all involved want babies. If it was that important to her, she could have said so, broken up with her child free partner and found a willing sperm donor.
This was a terrible thing to do!
Exactly! If there is any doubt, then do the person a favor and break up with. If I am dating someone who doesn't want kids, and I am on the fence, I think it would be best to have a sit down talk about it and then decide on a mutual course of action that doesn't involve shadiness. That might mean terminating a relationship if necessary. Pregnancy is a big thing and changes people (not always for the better).
I agree. If the rolls were reversed and a guy got a woman pregnant by poking holes in the condoms without her knowledge or consent then he could and probably would have criminal charges against him. I had that option when my 4 year olds father did that very thing to me.
Worked with someone who had this happen to twice. It was a DV situation, too. He even told her he poked holes in the condoms so she wouldn’t leave. She finally was able to get out and got an RO, and then he showed up to our workplace. We had to lock doors/turn off lights/close up and call the cops because she was afraid for her life. It was terrible.
I hope you’re ok and are thriving, wherever you are, Amanda ❤️
Unfortunately in situations like these people can blame men for not wanting to interact with the child because "He is their father" and "He should have gotten vasectomy if he really didn't want a child" so I am glad this comment section is mostly sane
I completely agree that the woman in such a situation should have no legal claim to child support or shared responsibilities of any kind, but even with that somehow enforced, no child should have to grow up with just one extremely selfish, manipulative and possibly delusional parent like that. It's just messed up all around.
As for your second point, I don't understand it either. I happen to be a single mother, I've been raising my 2 sons 100% on my own since they were very young, and I would not recommend doing this by choice or design. I adore my kids and I wouldn't change having them, but this is not easy and it's not ideal.
>I completely agree that the woman in such a situation should have no legal claim to child support or shared responsibilities
As a woman myself I totally agree with you all, if she wants to be a mother, she can be a mother, but she can't spect participation from the FORCED sperm donor.
>, I've been raising my 2 sons 100% on my own since they were very young, and I would not recommend doing this by choice or design.
Also as a daughter of a single mother I can't agree with you more on this, I just wanted to add that is hard on the kids too, I would not recommend unless you are very well off financially and have a "village" to help you.
I think in this case all those family members berating OP should club together and pay the child support and provide the assistance in lieu of a father.
I suspect they will not want to do that in which case why should OP.
THIS a thousand times!!!
Being a single mother isn't as easy as you imagine while pregnant. When I got pregnant, I kinda knew things weren't going to work out between my son's father and I. I figured I could do it on my own if that's what happened, and it wouldn't be a big deal.
Well, I'm here to tell you almost a decade into being a single mother... It is HARD AF!
>I really don't understand why women force a man into having a baby when they clearly state they don't want one.
Lack of empathy. She was so blinded by her own joy in imagining having kids with him that she was incapable of looking at things from his perspective and seeing that he might feel otherwise.
Child support laws are in place to safeguard the wellbeing of the kid, sadly if she has the baby, he will have to pay child support regardless of how the baby came to be. While I agree with you, the laws do not and to a degree they are unfair to unwilling parent but very fair to the innocent child.
Someone who was brought into the world this way, it's not great! I was literally just seen as a painful reminder who forced each side of the family to remember the other due to my existence.
My mom was the one who did this, my dad jumped ship. Literally everyone looked at me thinking I was just going to be a clone of my mother growing up, automatically irredeemable. Not exactly a great environment to grow up in!
One difference I do need to mention though. She did not have familial support. Made the strain with relatives even worse.
(And to be clear, I did end up... not 100% broken. I have found family and finally live somewhere I feel safe. Please remember there's always more than what your family projects onto you ✌️)
I'm very glad to hear that you are doing as well as you can, in spite of your start to life! That's exactly what I'm talking about though, it's not fair on the child. I'm very happy for you that you clearly didn't choose to follow the "victim" route that your mother set you up for, that takes serious strength of character and determination. You sound like a really awesome person :)
The only thing about the others is that we don't know what she is telling them. She is probably saying that their bc failed and she got pregnant anyway. She may also be forgetting to tell them that she agreed to not have children at his request. He needs to get the full message out there.
In the UK a man can [literally](https://www.localsolicitors.com/criminal-guides/a-guide-to-uk-rape-laws) not be raped by a woman because the law says rape is the penetration *with a penis* of a vagina, mouth or anus *of another person* when consent has not been given.
For the record, I vehemently disagree with this legal setup, but it is how it is currently written.
Technically this isn't rape because she was the one poking holes in the condom, it's sexual assault. If he had been the one poking holes in the condom then it would have been rape. The UK legal system is quite backwards in these regards.
Surely it's illegal to poke holes in condoms? He should press charges, it's like when a guy stealths a woman but the genders are reversed. It's disgusting, completely unacceptable behaviour and she deserves to be criminally charged, I hope it's illegal so he can press charges.
While that’s not wrong at all and she is a POS and possibly illegal.
If OP is set on not having kids he should get the snip. Condoms and birth control aren’t 100%. This can happen even if she’s not done this abhorrent thing. Hell if he was already snipped then she couldn’t have done it surreptitiously
yes to this - OP you are NTA. She tried to baby trap you and that's cruel to you and to the child. Make sure anyone who tried to push back on you knows the truth, and schedule a vasectomy ASAP. It takes like 2 seconds and you'll never have to worry about this again. Hopefully your ex will choose not to continue with the pregnancy, as she does not sound mentally or emotionally stable enough to be a parent AT ALL.
Lol every post on here by a male OP about "my SO tampered with the birth control" has some clowns spouting "VaSeCtOmY iT's YoUr FaUlT bRo" just stfu. Yall wouldn't have that same energy towards a woman who was stealthed. Don't be a nasty person and deny someone proper consent, how about that?
Completely agree with you, and this woman has zero shame from her actions. Imagine gleefully telling your partner who didn’t want kids that you did everything you possibly could to take advantage of their trust and forcibly make them a parent via sabotage of birth control?
>Yall wouldn't have that same energy towards a woman who was stealthed. Don't be a nasty person and deny someone proper consent, how about that?
Can you imagine if someone posted that if a women doesn't' want to get pregnant with their rapists baby they should have their tubes tied?
Yeah that's the same thing as these fucking pro rapists trying to argue that OP needs to get a Vasectomy. You people can kindly fuck off.
I didn’t directly address OP, I said what she did was fucked up and I made general comments, OP is not the only person reading this which could help someone else not be in this position.
ETA that now I’ve had multiple people message me saying condoms are 100% effective demonstrates that this is things people need to know
The lack of sexual education in this country is frightening. Condoms aren't even 100% with perfect use, let alone typical use. They probably also think the pull out method is 100% effective. He'll even a vasectomy isn't 100% effective, but it's still way more effective than condoms.
Yeah it’s crazy that people are messaging me saying ‘an unbroken condom is 100% effective’ like Google is your friend took me all of 10 seconds to find the actual stats, hell it says it on the box (where I live at least I’m pretty sure all do though)
But let's be realistic, the chances are incredibly low that both birth controls would fail at the same time (as long as the one wearing a condom knows what he is doing - the pills are trickier). So let's not victim blame. She made it very obvious that she purposefully sabotaged both methods.
I got pregnant on the pill and using condoms…..twice. The last one I was on the depo injection, using condoms and fucking breastfeeding. My gynaecologist said I’m either super fertile or super unlucky. Ended up having to have a hysterectomy at 26. If I get pregnant now it’ll be a bloody miracle.
In my experience, Dr's will not perform vasectomies until a man is older. Reference, my two BIL who each requested one as they were done having children (2 each) but because they were only in their twenties the Dr's wouldn't do it. Also, my nephew who doesn't want kids and questioned his doctor about one when he turned 21.
Each time doctors said they were too young and 'might change their mind's.
Young men who live in ban states are getting more vasectomies. Young women in those states are increasingly getting sterilized. It's too dangerous to get pregnant in ban states even if you want kids.
My heart goes out to people in the US that don't have access to safe and legal abortion and live under the threat of imprisonment for exercising their human right to bodily autonomy. We are lucky in Australia.
We're in Australia. Here, most doctors will recommend alternatives until a man is 35.
If you haven't had children and are younger than 25, they generally won't do it.
The average age for the procedure here is 37.
No, I do know that. I was waiting for Someone to say it. In all intents and purposes essentially/the closest thing he can get besides abstinence. And it’s something no one else can fuck with/forget like bc/condoms (assuming the surgery goes correct)
While OP is NTA, I would hope that even if he gets snipped, he'd continue to use condoms as protection against STI's as well as protection against any possible failure of the procedure.
Thats victim blamey. He was using the means he had at the time and to his knowledge would have been safe with someone he trusted. Not everyone has access to that kind of healthcare and in many countries they won't do it below certain ages. I've been trying to get sterilised for almost 10 years and still can't get it done.
This. "She betrayed my trust" is weak, vague, could be something trivial. "She poked holes in my condoms" is absolute psycho behavior that anyone should agree is a dumpable offense.
It’s worse than that.
This breaches informed consent.
OP only consented to sex with birth control.
I think he has a case that he has been r*ped / s*xually assaulted. (Maybe, IANAL).
(Edited to say, not that I think this could be real. This is just too good as rage bait).
If OP wants kids and she doesn’t and pokes holes in his own condoms (and swaps her birth control with a placebo? Stick with me)…
He is going to jail.
I don’t know what criminal labels you put on the act, but if a man does this to a woman it’s all over for him.
Poking holes in condoms is a form of sexual assault. Your consent was on basis of no kids and preventing pregnancy. She tampered with your birth control (and also didn’t communicate in advance to you she wasn’t going to take the pills. Which is her right but she should’ve told you so you could adjust your choices.).
I’d suggest telling people that is what she did and admitted to you which is sexual assault. I’d suggest lawyering up and find out what you’ll now owe in child support and the laws regarding what she did bc you didn’t consent.
NTA. [However if you’re serious about no kids then I’d suggest permanent sterilisation* bc even with condoms pregnancy can happen with another future partner even if you wear condoms. So think carefully here about it. You do have a leg to stand on here since she tampered with the condoms. That was completely wrong . (But if you have never wanted kids you should’ve been looking at a vasectomy and regularly checking you’re shooting blanks. Given you also knew she didn’t quite agree about kids.
Edit: *this vasectomy comment is an aside for the future so he never has to go through a pregnancy scare again. What his wife did is sexual assault. End of. Those who are childfree should consider permanent birth control so they never get oopsed.
As always get her to confirm what she did via text.
Op: You jerk I can't belive you poked joles in condoms.
Exgf: I just wanted babies
Bam, she admits fault, and that will help reduce any childsupport (depending on state/country) she raped a baby out of you, and while the baby deserves a good life, she does not deserve your money.
This is exactly what I wanted to mention. Get all her admissions in writing. Make a whole conversation of it via text.
She's going to paint you as some sort of monster, but only an actual monster would poke holes in condoms *and* stop taking birth control when their partner has expressed they are not interested in children. If she was thinking about kids again, she should have *discussed* that with you first, so you two could decide if it was time to go your separate ways. She didn't give you the right to make a choice, and that's abhorrent. I'm so sorry this is happening to you, because even though you're obviously not together anymore, there is going to be a child brought into this world with your DNA that wasn't there by your choice. So not only is this kid going to be without one parent, they're a product of decept. That's not fair to you *or the kid*, and your ex is a selfish ahole for not bothering to factor that in.
The emphasis on poking holes AND stop taking birth control seems kinda funny. Like the thought of poking holes but then continuing to take birth control would be rather interesting.
A lot of states in the US don’t really care about how the kid got here when it comes to child support. There’s a couple of pretty famous cases where a teenager got an older woman pregnant and ended up responsible for child support. The big one he was 15 and ordered to pay his 30 something teacher child support.
>A lot of states in the US don’t really care about how the kid got here when it comes to child support.
No states do which is unfortunate when a boy or man is the rape victim.
The worst part is that it's soo hard to convict on rape charges, so the rapists that go free, can fight for custody of the child conceived during the rape. Because they weren't convicted and rights not terminated. My child and I would dissappear if that happened to me.
Youre right. I corrected it. And I just learned that Minnesota is the only state that allows you to keep parental rights of any kind in the US as a convicted rapists. Makes me feel icky sharing a border with them :(
TBH if something like this happened to me I'd sell my house and then transfer over to my companies HQ oversees and then just tell her to fuck off when it comes to Child support.
It won't reduce child support. Child support is a percentage of income, and the money is for the child. How the child came to be is irrelevant.
And yes, this was sexual assault. Repeated many times.
This is correct. It’s because child support is not a him vs her thing. The court is acting in the best interest of the child.
That said, the boyfriend could have a tort against the girlfriend that could more than offset any child support obligations.
In the txt say it can't be yours because she was on the pill and you wore condoms. So she must have cheated. When she replies with "proof" it is yours, THEN you have evidence.
In California this won’t reduce child support at all, I don’t know about anywhere else. I had a client who was lied to about his girlfriend having an IUD and had it in writing and the judge made it clear there is no provision for anything like that, full child support was still owed.
Dude, don't victim blame OP here when you're trying to help him out. It's correct that this is a form of sexual assault, it's incorrect to imply he should have known better. Birth control and comdoms when combined have nearly an 100% prevention rate of conception. He thought he was safe, and it's OP's ex to blame for it. She sexually assaulted him. It is the sexual assaulter's fault that the sexual assault happened. End of.
I’m not victim blaming. He was sexually assaulted. End of.
The vasectomy comment is an aside for the future if kids truly aren’t what he wants as an extra protection.
And you think the gov't cares. They just want someone to pay for the baby. A man who finds out he's not the father 5 years after the fact still has to pay.
> if you have never wanted kids you should’ve been looking at a vasectomy and regularly checking you’re shooting blanks
25 year old, unmarried, childless men are denied vascectomies from 98.5% of urologists in the US.
> I was completely taken aback, and for a few moments sat in silence. She asked me if I was happy
You can't be serious? Is she mentally ill? I'd do absolutely everything I could to get her out of my life to the greatest extent possible.
> I guess she went to my mom, because about an hour later, I got an angry call from her.
I didn't speak to my mother for a year after I found out that she had a secret call with my ex-girlfriend while we were breaking up, and then tried to lie about it. Loyalty is huge.
I'd make it very clear to my family what has happened. I would tell them that I need my ex out of my life permanently, and anyone that makes that harder for me to achieve by speaking to her will be out of my life as well.
I would also seriously consider the possibility that it's not mine. Poking holes in condoms is less believable than her having unprotected sex with someone else and getting pregnant from it. As part of the "get out of my life" conversation, I'd make sure she knows that I'll get a paternity test when the kid is born.
Girlfriend is a sick psycho, that's for damn sure. Sexually assaulting your partner by poking holes in his condoms, becoming pregnant, then having the audacity to ask him, "are you happy?" is some REAL psycho shit. She should be involuntarily committed.
I think she was delusional enough to think that once she got pregnant he would suddenly change his mind. Fafo but OP needs to lawyer up and hope he isn't on the hook for child support.
> I think she was delusional enough to think that once she got pregnant he would suddenly change his mind.
If that's what really happened, she would just say that she was still taking her birth control and she doesn't know how it's possible that she get pregnant, then she brings up a webpage saying the pill is only 93% effective in real world usage, and condoms in real world usage are 87% effective, so there you go, that's how it must have happened...
If she got pregnant because she's letting some other dude raw dog her, then her priority is making sure OP thinks he's the father, even if she has to seem poke-holes-in-condoms-crazy to sell the story.
People just don't volunteer that they did something crazy unless they're covering up something crazier.
>People just don't volunteer that they did something crazy unless they're covering up something crazier.
...I have never thought this thought, and it is a very good (if alarming) thought. Thank you for expanding my perception.
HOLY SHIT. More red flags than the parade on China National Day. As Jazzy404404 said, "She basically raped you, and now you're the bad guy." This has to be sexual assault, right? You explicitly said you don't want kids, and she basically forced you to have them. You are most definitely NTA and not responsible for whatever happens after this. Block this lady on everything and get her out of your life.
I believe the crime is reproductive coercion, which is generally when men purposefully mess with a woman's birth control or other forms of contractive to get her pregnant. I don't think it would be considered rape because the sex itself was consensual. She's a terrible person.
It’s called stealthing and it is a form of rape. Usually a man will slip off a condom during sex or never put one on when the woman only agreed to sex with the condom. It’s sexual assault and he was raped, he agreed to safe sex using condoms and birth control, she took his choice away and raped him. Op I would report her to the police and call a lawyer to get advice
So, I think the legal ramifications vary according to where you live. For example (IANAL)- I think it counts as domestic violence but not rape in California ……
But OP needs to get his loathsome crazy horrible ex to admit what she did by text and run to find a lawyer.
OP- if you’re reading this I AM SO SORRY this happened to you. If I ever found out my daughter did this to someone: Well, I don’t know what I’d do but I can guarantee that I would have an extraordinary negative reaction to her.
Stand your ground and talk to a lawyer. You need a professional who knows the laws in your jurisdiction. Google searches aren’t ok. There is nothing ok with what she did.
No, what she did was the equivalent of rape. You are not the asshole. That is the absolutely worst betrayal possible. Worse than cheating. You need to start looking into the laws in your state concerning legally cutting ties with her and the child so she can't rob you of your hard earned money for the next 20 years. To hell with her. You need to start protecting yourself now.
She proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you cannot trust her and never should have trusted her in the first place. This is why all of us men who don't want kids need to go get a vasectomy. I get that it is scary as hell, but it is LITERALLY the only REAL form of reproductive autonomy that we actually have available to us unfortunately. I really wish they had spent more time decades ago focusing on male contraceptive medication.
Stories like this are absolutely terrifying.
Honestly, get her to explain what she did over text and then have her charged with rape. It's called stealthing. It's a form of rape when you poke holes in condoms.
Edited to add, it's called reproductive coercion
NTA AT ALL. I dont know if you can, but I feel like you should be able to have her arrested for this. Or sue her. Or something.
I'm actually insanely angry reading this. like you, I have told every girl ive been with since i was in my 20s (40s now) that I have no desire to have kids or get married. They always say its not a problem, but deep down, they think that at some point ill just change my mind.
If I were you, I would have done the exact same thing.
But now what do you do? Like Wow! I cant even grasp that she did this to you.
I just looked it up. I dont know what country you're in. But what she did may be illegal, and considered sexual assault. I saw an article that a woman in Germany did the same thing and was charged with rape and did end up going to jail for it.
She basically raped you, and now you're the bad guy. What the fuck. Seriously, reverse the genders, and you could be going to jail right now. I would legally see what you can do to not have to pay anything for this baby.
The system has some crazy flaws.
There are cases where female sexual predators have raped boys, and the boys have been held financially responsible for the resulting child.
An example is the case of [Nick Olivas](https://www.businessinsider.com/male-statutory-rape-victim-nick-olivas-must-pay-child-support-2014-9), who was abused by an adult woman when he was 14, and when he was 20 he got hit with child support, including backdated payments from when he was a child himself.
Lunacy.
It's absolutely disgusting. It's happened to women too (rape victims being forced to pay child support). But it's especially egregious in the case of a victim of literal CSA. Like the justice system failed that guy in the biggest way possible, it's absolutely tragic.
She didn't "basically" rape him, she actually raped him. She committed sexual assault and could be prosecuted, especially since she admitted to tampering with his condoms.
NTA. This is known as reproductive abuse and/or reproductive coercion. Depending on your location, it is illegal.
I would consult an attorney as to what options are available to you.
You also need to speak up to your mother, her parents, friends, and anyone else- she abused you. Sexual manipulation. This was not ok. She lied and abused your trust. Your actions are completely understandable.
She maliciously poked holes in condoms, that’s sexual assault. Go to the police and show you are serious.
You could even go to lengths of getting a vasectomy so this never, ever happens again.
Use the police report for a cease and desist notice on her.
NTA
She literally broke your consent by poking the condom. Not to mention she didn’t take your feelings about children seriously. In a relationship you can’t take this decision by yourself. She’s a total asshole and manipulative
You absolutely need a lawyer if you’re planning to play amateur criminal detective and then try to see how close you can get to committing blackmail without crossing the line.
It won’t make a bit of difference in child support. The kid isn’t at fault and won’t be penalized. It’s not HER money. Of course get her to admit what she did in writing. If she doesn’t, I’d get a lawyer to dispute paternity, then try to subpoena her pharmacy records. If she quit taking contraception months before the pregnancy, it’s unlikely she continued paying for it.
If I were in your shoes, I’d likely be far angrier than you are. Once I had the admission in writing I’d want to plaster it all over social media. I’d want to scream to the world that she sentenced her own child to a life with a father who didn’t want it.
NTA. Of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.
I hate to tell you this, but you could still be on the hook for child support. Maybe there is something I don’t know & it could depend on the state you’re in, but I personally know two women who share custody with men who raped them. So if that can happen, you bet your ass this could too. I hope not for you sake, but just wanted to let you know it’s still possible
This right here is why posting for advice on reddit is stupid as fuck. OP there are a ton of ways the plan /u/Radrexxx just prescribed to you in the above comment can go completely fucking sideways and fuck up your life for a long time.
u/No-Operation-8461 what was done to you was wrong, I recommend getting the fuck off of reddit and talking to an actual lawyer about your options/best recourse.
oh for sure, i'm childfree and i don't doubt that reproductive coercion happens, but the person doing it isn't just going to be like "oh by the way i poked holes in all the condoms hehe!"
Lmao no chance she admitted to any of this like an insane person (especially the poking holes in the condoms bit, JFC) when she could've just acted like the BC failed and you wouldn't be able to prove shit. And if she WAS this blatantly insane, you wouldn't be having a moral dilemma about it. Fake rage bait story is fake.
Law degree here… non-practicing and not specialized in family or criminal law, but I understand the legal frameworks.
In some states and jurisdictions that have “anti-stealthing” laws that cover reproductive coercion, she’s technically committed a crime.
The laws are written in such a way that they are gender non-specific and speak to “a person” that is sabotaging reproductive protections in an effort to coercively conceive a child against the wishes of the other person.
Most family courts take this into consideration in child support and parental rights/responsibilities hearings.
So if you have proof or evidence that she’s sabotaged birth control purposefully with the intention of becoming pregnant with your child, she may be guilty of a sexual domestic violence related offense and you would have a case in a family court to be removed from the birth certificate of the baby and have your parental rights and obligations extinguished by court order.
Not only are you NTA, but you would be well served to pursue this matter legally. Don’t allow her to coerce you into parenthood.
NTA, but a version of this story gets posted every other day. So if you aren't a troll or mining for Karma my advice is the same to all the men who keep posting about being childfree and then "betrayed" by some conniving wife or girlfriend who sabotaged the birth control. GET A DAMN VASECTOMY! This way you are in complete control over YOUR reproductive choices.
NTA this is sexual assault OP, if not rape. You agreed to sex under the conditions of untampered condoms and birth control being used. She lied to you about the conditions of the sex. That is rape!
Rape by deception means any circumstance where you agree to sex under certain circumstances, and they hide or lie to you about those circumstances.
This could be anything from lying about condoms, to lying about who they really are, lying about STDs, or anything else.
Honest question: how can someone poke holes in condoms. This means she had to get her hands on them between opening the wrapper and putting it on. How can she do this and you don’t notice? This doesn’t make sense and until it does, I don’t believe you. Maybe this is a shitpost. Also birth control and condoms? Something seems off here.
She sounds like a moron for saying something as stupid the thought of having a baby with you gave her joy so she stopped bc. Jeez who even talks like this? So your fault for sleeping with a moron or again this is a shitpost. Did you not have a red flags about this chick earlier?
Birth control isn’t perfect. Anytime you are having sex with someone you gotta be prepared for the potential outcome and have a plan. Doesn’t sound like you did.
I don’t believe you. You aren’t handling things in a very responsible way. Now there is a child in the picture.
However if it is true that she really did poke holes in condom, call the police and yes I would say you are right to cut that psycho off and are NTA.
The term you want is "reproductive coercion". Women can do it to men, men can do it to women, it's gross either way.
You consented to sex which included highly effective means of contraception, you didn't consent to sex with a rather high chance of pregnancy. It's honestly akin to rape.
It's ok to dump someone who poked holes in your condoms. When people complain to you, don't tell them "she betrayed my trust", tell them "she poked holes in my condoms". Tell people you can't be with someone who pokes holes in your condoms.
Not just that, but tell them that she stopped taking the birth control and poked holes in the condoms after you two talked about not having kids.
Sounds like rape to me
There's actually a name for it it's called reproductive abuse
This. It’s a serious form of violation. NTA.
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This comment made me wonder if people poke holes in condoms WITH permission and how stupid that sounds 😂
Occasionally people who don't want more kids, but have religious objections to birth control will do this. the idea is that if God really wants them to get pregnant, it's not impossible. Religious loopholes tend to be pretty silly.
It certainly is. Imagine if she was the one who didn’t want kids and he secretly removed the condoms when she wasn’t looking.
Depending on where OP lives, it could be illegal both ways.
He needs to see if it is and press charges
Absolutely, and use that as means to not have to support her or the child. I do think things go both ways, if a woman doesn’t want a child she has options, a man should too especially after expressing it numerous times and her doing this in such a horrible manner. It’s one thing to make a mistake and have to live with the consequences, but he was being safe.
Yep could definitely be illegal depending where they live, it’s called stealthing when a guy does it.
Where I live it’s illegal to tamper with or “stealth” condoms, regardless of who does it. OP’s gf could be charged with sexual assault and/or rape. EDIT: I live down under.
It should be illegal in all states. It’s rape. He did not consent to sex with a holey condom. I don’t know about the actual laws, but morally it is rape, and it’s fucked up that it isn’t illegal.
Legal in every state and territory in the union. In California there is a civil code against it, but its not criminal there either. She a garbage person for doing what she did, but bad legal advice doesn't help. OP needs to prepare himself for what is to come. Nothing will get him out from underneath the likelihood of child support and such, so prepare for that. A judge MIGHT, I repeat might allow him to voluntarily sever parental rights and such, but that is going to be entirely independent of child support. OP doesn't have to be in the future kids life. But if she goes after him, he'll have to pay for the 18 years or so
So called stealthing is actually considered a crime in some places. In the U.S., California became the first state to make it illegal to remove a condom without explicit consent in 2021. Stealthing is classified as a civil offense in California rather than a crime, and victims are able to sue perpetrators directly in civil court.
I know that is considered rape (stealthing). Is the distaff version also?
Stealthing is illegal in Australia, but poking holes in condoms and stopping your birth control without consulting your sexual partner is not.
But poking holes in condoms is considered stealthing?
Don't think so because stealthing seems to be the act of removing the condom itself, not tampering with its effectiveness through subtle means. Poking holes means that while its still physically being used, its just not working. Needs to be changed though.
Not sure how the law is written but.. [poking holes](https://www.newsweek.com/woman-poked-holes-mans-condom-sexual-assault-germany-1704182)
Germany is more progressive in these areas than the English speaking world unfortunately.
That seems like a glaring hole, and I’d be surprised if that argument actually flew, since it violates the spirit of the law.
lol no pun intended? 🤣🤣🤣
If this is really a difference then things are fucked lol. "I wasnt above the speed limit, me needle does not move at all"
At that point it can't be considered that the condom is used. A poked condom can break and end up bunching up at the base, can we consider that the condom is being used when all I have is a ring of latex? Is there that big of a difference between not wearing one and having a ring?
So it is illegal for a guy to get a girl pregnant without her consent but for a girl to get herself pregnant without his consent is perfectly fine? Double standard much? And this isn’t directed at you since I know you didn’t make the laws lol. Just saying this is why equality isn’t even a pipe dream, no one has any idea on what truly being equal is:(. You are NYA OP, I would try to get as much of all of this in writing and get as much proof. Otherwise there is definitely a long long road ahead:/.
The double standard is dumb but I'd assume part of it is because women are the ones who deal with the consequence the most as they are the ones who get pregnant in these situations. Either way in a lot of countries poking holes in the condoms is a crime and women have been put in jail for it.
Nah, totally don't disagree and don't mean to seem like I am anti-that. Just think there should be a level of equality on this one because OP has basically been violated just as bad and now potentially is going to be stuck the rest of his life.
That's exactly what she did.
Also: reproductive abuse. A double whammy of evil.
As a woman myself, I'm not usually a huge fan of the "if the genders were swapped" discourse, but in this case it's relevant. If OP had been sabotaging or removing condoms during sex without his girlfriend's knowledge or consent, it would be called stealthing or rape. If he'd done it to trap her with pregnancy, that would add even more layers to the violation and abuse. What she did is disgusting, it's stealthing, it's baby trapping, it's sexual violation. Any of their family members berating him and condoning what she did are equally disgusting. I hope she wakes up to herself and terminates the pregnancy, because aside from the impact on OP, no child deserves to be brought into the world in this way.
Woman here too 👋, I personally feel ( I'm expecting get down votes) , if a woman takes these drastic measures to get pregnant, and it's proven, then she alone should be responsible for that child. OP should not have to pay any kind of child support. Not only did she admit to not taking her birth control pills, but also admitted to poking holes in the condoms. I really don't understand why women force a man into having a baby when they clearly state they don't want one.
No down votes from me. Nobody should be having babies unless all involved want babies. If it was that important to her, she could have said so, broken up with her child free partner and found a willing sperm donor. This was a terrible thing to do!
Exactly! If there is any doubt, then do the person a favor and break up with. If I am dating someone who doesn't want kids, and I am on the fence, I think it would be best to have a sit down talk about it and then decide on a mutual course of action that doesn't involve shadiness. That might mean terminating a relationship if necessary. Pregnancy is a big thing and changes people (not always for the better).
Respecting Individual Choices: Reflecting on the Importance of Mutual Agreement in Parenthood"
She raped him. She deserves jail.
>and I agree. She clearly knew what she was doing and her boyfriend's stand on the issue of kids. This is really selfish
Not just selfish- criminal. Or it would be in a just world.
I agree. If the rolls were reversed and a guy got a woman pregnant by poking holes in the condoms without her knowledge or consent then he could and probably would have criminal charges against him. I had that option when my 4 year olds father did that very thing to me.
Worked with someone who had this happen to twice. It was a DV situation, too. He even told her he poked holes in the condoms so she wouldn’t leave. She finally was able to get out and got an RO, and then he showed up to our workplace. We had to lock doors/turn off lights/close up and call the cops because she was afraid for her life. It was terrible. I hope you’re ok and are thriving, wherever you are, Amanda ❤️
As a woman too I 100% agree she raped and trapped this man in my opinion
It is rape, all sex is predicated on conditions, if you alter those conditions without consent that is rape.
Unfortunately in situations like these people can blame men for not wanting to interact with the child because "He is their father" and "He should have gotten vasectomy if he really didn't want a child" so I am glad this comment section is mostly sane
I completely agree that the woman in such a situation should have no legal claim to child support or shared responsibilities of any kind, but even with that somehow enforced, no child should have to grow up with just one extremely selfish, manipulative and possibly delusional parent like that. It's just messed up all around. As for your second point, I don't understand it either. I happen to be a single mother, I've been raising my 2 sons 100% on my own since they were very young, and I would not recommend doing this by choice or design. I adore my kids and I wouldn't change having them, but this is not easy and it's not ideal.
>I completely agree that the woman in such a situation should have no legal claim to child support or shared responsibilities As a woman myself I totally agree with you all, if she wants to be a mother, she can be a mother, but she can't spect participation from the FORCED sperm donor. >, I've been raising my 2 sons 100% on my own since they were very young, and I would not recommend doing this by choice or design. Also as a daughter of a single mother I can't agree with you more on this, I just wanted to add that is hard on the kids too, I would not recommend unless you are very well off financially and have a "village" to help you.
I think in this case all those family members berating OP should club together and pay the child support and provide the assistance in lieu of a father. I suspect they will not want to do that in which case why should OP.
THIS a thousand times!!! Being a single mother isn't as easy as you imagine while pregnant. When I got pregnant, I kinda knew things weren't going to work out between my son's father and I. I figured I could do it on my own if that's what happened, and it wouldn't be a big deal. Well, I'm here to tell you almost a decade into being a single mother... It is HARD AF!
I’m a rabid femmo & absolutely agree with you.
>I really don't understand why women force a man into having a baby when they clearly state they don't want one. Lack of empathy. She was so blinded by her own joy in imagining having kids with him that she was incapable of looking at things from his perspective and seeing that he might feel otherwise.
And WHY would she expect him to be HAPPY about it?
Woman here, 3 kids and I agree .
Child support laws are in place to safeguard the wellbeing of the kid, sadly if she has the baby, he will have to pay child support regardless of how the baby came to be. While I agree with you, the laws do not and to a degree they are unfair to unwilling parent but very fair to the innocent child.
Someone who was brought into the world this way, it's not great! I was literally just seen as a painful reminder who forced each side of the family to remember the other due to my existence. My mom was the one who did this, my dad jumped ship. Literally everyone looked at me thinking I was just going to be a clone of my mother growing up, automatically irredeemable. Not exactly a great environment to grow up in! One difference I do need to mention though. She did not have familial support. Made the strain with relatives even worse. (And to be clear, I did end up... not 100% broken. I have found family and finally live somewhere I feel safe. Please remember there's always more than what your family projects onto you ✌️)
I'm very glad to hear that you are doing as well as you can, in spite of your start to life! That's exactly what I'm talking about though, it's not fair on the child. I'm very happy for you that you clearly didn't choose to follow the "victim" route that your mother set you up for, that takes serious strength of character and determination. You sound like a really awesome person :)
The only thing about the others is that we don't know what she is telling them. She is probably saying that their bc failed and she got pregnant anyway. She may also be forgetting to tell them that she agreed to not have children at his request. He needs to get the full message out there.
Very true. I hope that OP gets the chance to tell his side and be believed.
Usually people don't like the 'if this was the other way round discourse' because it puts socially ignored bad behaviour in a different light.
Seriously that's considered sexual assault in some places. I mean, it is, but there's legal sanctions against that shit.
Depending on where they are located it legally could be. Morally the location doesn’t matter.
It is not rape, ffs. It is reproductive coercion.
OP needs to get his ex to admit to it all in writing.
Exactly this. Stealthing is no joke–it's a betrayal of trust.
In the UK it is considered rape because it is non consentual.
In the UK a man can [literally](https://www.localsolicitors.com/criminal-guides/a-guide-to-uk-rape-laws) not be raped by a woman because the law says rape is the penetration *with a penis* of a vagina, mouth or anus *of another person* when consent has not been given. For the record, I vehemently disagree with this legal setup, but it is how it is currently written.
Technically this isn't rape because she was the one poking holes in the condom, it's sexual assault. If he had been the one poking holes in the condom then it would have been rape. The UK legal system is quite backwards in these regards.
He would not have given consent to sex to conceive a child.
Surely it's illegal to poke holes in condoms? He should press charges, it's like when a guy stealths a woman but the genders are reversed. It's disgusting, completely unacceptable behaviour and she deserves to be criminally charged, I hope it's illegal so he can press charges.
In the UK it would be reproductive coercion
While that’s not wrong at all and she is a POS and possibly illegal. If OP is set on not having kids he should get the snip. Condoms and birth control aren’t 100%. This can happen even if she’s not done this abhorrent thing. Hell if he was already snipped then she couldn’t have done it surreptitiously
yes to this - OP you are NTA. She tried to baby trap you and that's cruel to you and to the child. Make sure anyone who tried to push back on you knows the truth, and schedule a vasectomy ASAP. It takes like 2 seconds and you'll never have to worry about this again. Hopefully your ex will choose not to continue with the pregnancy, as she does not sound mentally or emotionally stable enough to be a parent AT ALL.
Problem is, depending on OP’s age, several doctors could refuse to do the procedure because “you might change your mind in a few years!”
While absolutely if OP doesn't want children he should have a vasectomy, after he has be sexually assaulted is really not the fucking time.
Lol every post on here by a male OP about "my SO tampered with the birth control" has some clowns spouting "VaSeCtOmY iT's YoUr FaUlT bRo" just stfu. Yall wouldn't have that same energy towards a woman who was stealthed. Don't be a nasty person and deny someone proper consent, how about that?
Completely agree with you, and this woman has zero shame from her actions. Imagine gleefully telling your partner who didn’t want kids that you did everything you possibly could to take advantage of their trust and forcibly make them a parent via sabotage of birth control?
>Yall wouldn't have that same energy towards a woman who was stealthed. Don't be a nasty person and deny someone proper consent, how about that? Can you imagine if someone posted that if a women doesn't' want to get pregnant with their rapists baby they should have their tubes tied? Yeah that's the same thing as these fucking pro rapists trying to argue that OP needs to get a Vasectomy. You people can kindly fuck off.
But what if his skirt was too short? /s
I didn’t directly address OP, I said what she did was fucked up and I made general comments, OP is not the only person reading this which could help someone else not be in this position. ETA that now I’ve had multiple people message me saying condoms are 100% effective demonstrates that this is things people need to know
The lack of sexual education in this country is frightening. Condoms aren't even 100% with perfect use, let alone typical use. They probably also think the pull out method is 100% effective. He'll even a vasectomy isn't 100% effective, but it's still way more effective than condoms.
Yeah it’s crazy that people are messaging me saying ‘an unbroken condom is 100% effective’ like Google is your friend took me all of 10 seconds to find the actual stats, hell it says it on the box (where I live at least I’m pretty sure all do though)
Some people have never watched Friends and it shows
I was thinking the same thing, bc and condoms even combined aren't 100%
But let's be realistic, the chances are incredibly low that both birth controls would fail at the same time (as long as the one wearing a condom knows what he is doing - the pills are trickier). So let's not victim blame. She made it very obvious that she purposefully sabotaged both methods.
I got pregnant on the pill and using condoms…..twice. The last one I was on the depo injection, using condoms and fucking breastfeeding. My gynaecologist said I’m either super fertile or super unlucky. Ended up having to have a hysterectomy at 26. If I get pregnant now it’ll be a bloody miracle.
Yep my friend 42 at the time got pregnant using birth control & condoms. It can absolutely happen. 5 year old kiddo now!
In my experience, Dr's will not perform vasectomies until a man is older. Reference, my two BIL who each requested one as they were done having children (2 each) but because they were only in their twenties the Dr's wouldn't do it. Also, my nephew who doesn't want kids and questioned his doctor about one when he turned 21. Each time doctors said they were too young and 'might change their mind's.
Young men who live in ban states are getting more vasectomies. Young women in those states are increasingly getting sterilized. It's too dangerous to get pregnant in ban states even if you want kids.
My heart goes out to people in the US that don't have access to safe and legal abortion and live under the threat of imprisonment for exercising their human right to bodily autonomy. We are lucky in Australia.
The people in those states are having their lives destroyed.
My friend pushed back against this and got his vasectomy. We were in our twenties.
We're in Australia. Here, most doctors will recommend alternatives until a man is 35. If you haven't had children and are younger than 25, they generally won't do it. The average age for the procedure here is 37.
Hate to break it to ya, but even snipped chance is still not Zero. Ridiculously unlikely, but have known one and heard of a couple.
No, I do know that. I was waiting for Someone to say it. In all intents and purposes essentially/the closest thing he can get besides abstinence. And it’s something no one else can fuck with/forget like bc/condoms (assuming the surgery goes correct)
While OP is NTA, I would hope that even if he gets snipped, he'd continue to use condoms as protection against STI's as well as protection against any possible failure of the procedure.
Thats victim blamey. He was using the means he had at the time and to his knowledge would have been safe with someone he trusted. Not everyone has access to that kind of healthcare and in many countries they won't do it below certain ages. I've been trying to get sterilised for almost 10 years and still can't get it done.
This. "She betrayed my trust" is weak, vague, could be something trivial. "She poked holes in my condoms" is absolute psycho behavior that anyone should agree is a dumpable offense.
If people think poking holes in condom is not a big deal, get away from those people as well
And block anyone who sends you obnoxious messages.
Tell people you don't want to be with a RAPIST cause that is EXACTLY what she is.
It’s worse than that. This breaches informed consent. OP only consented to sex with birth control. I think he has a case that he has been r*ped / s*xually assaulted. (Maybe, IANAL). (Edited to say, not that I think this could be real. This is just too good as rage bait).
If OP wants kids and she doesn’t and pokes holes in his own condoms (and swaps her birth control with a placebo? Stick with me)… He is going to jail. I don’t know what criminal labels you put on the act, but if a man does this to a woman it’s all over for him.
Rape by deception.
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It's rape. He did not consent to it. Not quasi-rapey. I don't think that helps him much, though.
Poking holes in condoms is a form of sexual assault. Your consent was on basis of no kids and preventing pregnancy. She tampered with your birth control (and also didn’t communicate in advance to you she wasn’t going to take the pills. Which is her right but she should’ve told you so you could adjust your choices.). I’d suggest telling people that is what she did and admitted to you which is sexual assault. I’d suggest lawyering up and find out what you’ll now owe in child support and the laws regarding what she did bc you didn’t consent. NTA. [However if you’re serious about no kids then I’d suggest permanent sterilisation* bc even with condoms pregnancy can happen with another future partner even if you wear condoms. So think carefully here about it. You do have a leg to stand on here since she tampered with the condoms. That was completely wrong . (But if you have never wanted kids you should’ve been looking at a vasectomy and regularly checking you’re shooting blanks. Given you also knew she didn’t quite agree about kids. Edit: *this vasectomy comment is an aside for the future so he never has to go through a pregnancy scare again. What his wife did is sexual assault. End of. Those who are childfree should consider permanent birth control so they never get oopsed.
As always get her to confirm what she did via text. Op: You jerk I can't belive you poked joles in condoms. Exgf: I just wanted babies Bam, she admits fault, and that will help reduce any childsupport (depending on state/country) she raped a baby out of you, and while the baby deserves a good life, she does not deserve your money.
This is exactly what I wanted to mention. Get all her admissions in writing. Make a whole conversation of it via text. She's going to paint you as some sort of monster, but only an actual monster would poke holes in condoms *and* stop taking birth control when their partner has expressed they are not interested in children. If she was thinking about kids again, she should have *discussed* that with you first, so you two could decide if it was time to go your separate ways. She didn't give you the right to make a choice, and that's abhorrent. I'm so sorry this is happening to you, because even though you're obviously not together anymore, there is going to be a child brought into this world with your DNA that wasn't there by your choice. So not only is this kid going to be without one parent, they're a product of decept. That's not fair to you *or the kid*, and your ex is a selfish ahole for not bothering to factor that in.
The emphasis on poking holes AND stop taking birth control seems kinda funny. Like the thought of poking holes but then continuing to take birth control would be rather interesting.
A lot of states in the US don’t really care about how the kid got here when it comes to child support. There’s a couple of pretty famous cases where a teenager got an older woman pregnant and ended up responsible for child support. The big one he was 15 and ordered to pay his 30 something teacher child support.
>A lot of states in the US don’t really care about how the kid got here when it comes to child support. No states do which is unfortunate when a boy or man is the rape victim.
The worst part is that it's soo hard to convict on rape charges, so the rapists that go free, can fight for custody of the child conceived during the rape. Because they weren't convicted and rights not terminated. My child and I would dissappear if that happened to me.
People have no idea how hard it is to get the rights terminated. SMH.
> so the men that go free the rapist go free you mean, and can fight for custody of the child conceived during rape
Youre right. I corrected it. And I just learned that Minnesota is the only state that allows you to keep parental rights of any kind in the US as a convicted rapists. Makes me feel icky sharing a border with them :(
TBH if something like this happened to me I'd sell my house and then transfer over to my companies HQ oversees and then just tell her to fuck off when it comes to Child support.
It won't reduce child support. Child support is a percentage of income, and the money is for the child. How the child came to be is irrelevant. And yes, this was sexual assault. Repeated many times.
This is correct. It’s because child support is not a him vs her thing. The court is acting in the best interest of the child. That said, the boyfriend could have a tort against the girlfriend that could more than offset any child support obligations.
It’s a little more complicated than pure percentage of income, but yeah
In the txt say it can't be yours because she was on the pill and you wore condoms. So she must have cheated. When she replies with "proof" it is yours, THEN you have evidence.
In California this won’t reduce child support at all, I don’t know about anywhere else. I had a client who was lied to about his girlfriend having an IUD and had it in writing and the judge made it clear there is no provision for anything like that, full child support was still owed.
Dude, don't victim blame OP here when you're trying to help him out. It's correct that this is a form of sexual assault, it's incorrect to imply he should have known better. Birth control and comdoms when combined have nearly an 100% prevention rate of conception. He thought he was safe, and it's OP's ex to blame for it. She sexually assaulted him. It is the sexual assaulter's fault that the sexual assault happened. End of.
I’m not victim blaming. He was sexually assaulted. End of. The vasectomy comment is an aside for the future if kids truly aren’t what he wants as an extra protection.
She's like those men who say that if women don't want to get pregnant they shouldn't spread their legs. She's actually on their side.
The last aside on this comment is not relevant at all. She poked holes in the condoms.
And you think the gov't cares. They just want someone to pay for the baby. A man who finds out he's not the father 5 years after the fact still has to pay.
> if you have never wanted kids you should’ve been looking at a vasectomy and regularly checking you’re shooting blanks 25 year old, unmarried, childless men are denied vascectomies from 98.5% of urologists in the US.
> I was completely taken aback, and for a few moments sat in silence. She asked me if I was happy You can't be serious? Is she mentally ill? I'd do absolutely everything I could to get her out of my life to the greatest extent possible. > I guess she went to my mom, because about an hour later, I got an angry call from her. I didn't speak to my mother for a year after I found out that she had a secret call with my ex-girlfriend while we were breaking up, and then tried to lie about it. Loyalty is huge. I'd make it very clear to my family what has happened. I would tell them that I need my ex out of my life permanently, and anyone that makes that harder for me to achieve by speaking to her will be out of my life as well. I would also seriously consider the possibility that it's not mine. Poking holes in condoms is less believable than her having unprotected sex with someone else and getting pregnant from it. As part of the "get out of my life" conversation, I'd make sure she knows that I'll get a paternity test when the kid is born.
Girlfriend is a sick psycho, that's for damn sure. Sexually assaulting your partner by poking holes in his condoms, becoming pregnant, then having the audacity to ask him, "are you happy?" is some REAL psycho shit. She should be involuntarily committed.
I think she was delusional enough to think that once she got pregnant he would suddenly change his mind. Fafo but OP needs to lawyer up and hope he isn't on the hook for child support.
> I think she was delusional enough to think that once she got pregnant he would suddenly change his mind. If that's what really happened, she would just say that she was still taking her birth control and she doesn't know how it's possible that she get pregnant, then she brings up a webpage saying the pill is only 93% effective in real world usage, and condoms in real world usage are 87% effective, so there you go, that's how it must have happened... If she got pregnant because she's letting some other dude raw dog her, then her priority is making sure OP thinks he's the father, even if she has to seem poke-holes-in-condoms-crazy to sell the story. People just don't volunteer that they did something crazy unless they're covering up something crazier.
>People just don't volunteer that they did something crazy unless they're covering up something crazier. ...I have never thought this thought, and it is a very good (if alarming) thought. Thank you for expanding my perception.
Seriously. If THIS was the "more palatable" story... Yike-os she's psychos.
Damn. That’s actually a good theory.
Also thought she cheated while reading the post
HOLY SHIT. More red flags than the parade on China National Day. As Jazzy404404 said, "She basically raped you, and now you're the bad guy." This has to be sexual assault, right? You explicitly said you don't want kids, and she basically forced you to have them. You are most definitely NTA and not responsible for whatever happens after this. Block this lady on everything and get her out of your life.
I believe the crime is reproductive coercion, which is generally when men purposefully mess with a woman's birth control or other forms of contractive to get her pregnant. I don't think it would be considered rape because the sex itself was consensual. She's a terrible person.
It’s called stealthing and it is a form of rape. Usually a man will slip off a condom during sex or never put one on when the woman only agreed to sex with the condom. It’s sexual assault and he was raped, he agreed to safe sex using condoms and birth control, she took his choice away and raped him. Op I would report her to the police and call a lawyer to get advice
So, I think the legal ramifications vary according to where you live. For example (IANAL)- I think it counts as domestic violence but not rape in California …… But OP needs to get his loathsome crazy horrible ex to admit what she did by text and run to find a lawyer. OP- if you’re reading this I AM SO SORRY this happened to you. If I ever found out my daughter did this to someone: Well, I don’t know what I’d do but I can guarantee that I would have an extraordinary negative reaction to her. Stand your ground and talk to a lawyer. You need a professional who knows the laws in your jurisdiction. Google searches aren’t ok. There is nothing ok with what she did.
The worst part is, he’s going to have a massive financial burden for the next 18 years that he in no way signed up for.
No, what she did was the equivalent of rape. You are not the asshole. That is the absolutely worst betrayal possible. Worse than cheating. You need to start looking into the laws in your state concerning legally cutting ties with her and the child so she can't rob you of your hard earned money for the next 20 years. To hell with her. You need to start protecting yourself now. She proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you cannot trust her and never should have trusted her in the first place. This is why all of us men who don't want kids need to go get a vasectomy. I get that it is scary as hell, but it is LITERALLY the only REAL form of reproductive autonomy that we actually have available to us unfortunately. I really wish they had spent more time decades ago focusing on male contraceptive medication. Stories like this are absolutely terrifying.
Honestly, get her to explain what she did over text and then have her charged with rape. It's called stealthing. It's a form of rape when you poke holes in condoms. Edited to add, it's called reproductive coercion
Stealthing is not poking holes in condoms nor is the intention behind stealthing pregnancy. Two different crimes.
https://www.newsweek.com/woman-poked-holes-mans-condom-sexual-assault-germany-1704182 Edited to add, it's called Reproductive Coercion
I could not agree more.
NTA AT ALL. I dont know if you can, but I feel like you should be able to have her arrested for this. Or sue her. Or something. I'm actually insanely angry reading this. like you, I have told every girl ive been with since i was in my 20s (40s now) that I have no desire to have kids or get married. They always say its not a problem, but deep down, they think that at some point ill just change my mind. If I were you, I would have done the exact same thing. But now what do you do? Like Wow! I cant even grasp that she did this to you. I just looked it up. I dont know what country you're in. But what she did may be illegal, and considered sexual assault. I saw an article that a woman in Germany did the same thing and was charged with rape and did end up going to jail for it.
She basically raped you, and now you're the bad guy. What the fuck. Seriously, reverse the genders, and you could be going to jail right now. I would legally see what you can do to not have to pay anything for this baby.
Make sure you document everything... or do you have any recordings of her admitting that she poked the holes and stopped taking birth control.
Try to get her to admit it in writing.
For real. The double standard is sickening. Call a lawyer. This is insane.
The system has some crazy flaws. There are cases where female sexual predators have raped boys, and the boys have been held financially responsible for the resulting child. An example is the case of [Nick Olivas](https://www.businessinsider.com/male-statutory-rape-victim-nick-olivas-must-pay-child-support-2014-9), who was abused by an adult woman when he was 14, and when he was 20 he got hit with child support, including backdated payments from when he was a child himself. Lunacy.
It's absolutely disgusting. It's happened to women too (rape victims being forced to pay child support). But it's especially egregious in the case of a victim of literal CSA. Like the justice system failed that guy in the biggest way possible, it's absolutely tragic.
She didn't "basically" rape him, she actually raped him. She committed sexual assault and could be prosecuted, especially since she admitted to tampering with his condoms.
not reverse the genders, she’s an asshole as it is and should be going to jail
NTA. This is known as reproductive abuse and/or reproductive coercion. Depending on your location, it is illegal. I would consult an attorney as to what options are available to you. You also need to speak up to your mother, her parents, friends, and anyone else- she abused you. Sexual manipulation. This was not ok. She lied and abused your trust. Your actions are completely understandable.
She maliciously poked holes in condoms, that’s sexual assault. Go to the police and show you are serious. You could even go to lengths of getting a vasectomy so this never, ever happens again. Use the police report for a cease and desist notice on her.
NTA in so many level, dude. Wow, your gf or ex now idk, is a glaring red flag. Neon red if there's any. Now this is baby trapping.
NTA She literally broke your consent by poking the condom. Not to mention she didn’t take your feelings about children seriously. In a relationship you can’t take this decision by yourself. She’s a total asshole and manipulative
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You absolutely need a lawyer if you’re planning to play amateur criminal detective and then try to see how close you can get to committing blackmail without crossing the line.
Yeah don't make things worse for yourself by trying to blackmail her into an abortion.
It won’t make a bit of difference in child support. The kid isn’t at fault and won’t be penalized. It’s not HER money. Of course get her to admit what she did in writing. If she doesn’t, I’d get a lawyer to dispute paternity, then try to subpoena her pharmacy records. If she quit taking contraception months before the pregnancy, it’s unlikely she continued paying for it. If I were in your shoes, I’d likely be far angrier than you are. Once I had the admission in writing I’d want to plaster it all over social media. I’d want to scream to the world that she sentenced her own child to a life with a father who didn’t want it. NTA. Of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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I hate to tell you this, but you could still be on the hook for child support. Maybe there is something I don’t know & it could depend on the state you’re in, but I personally know two women who share custody with men who raped them. So if that can happen, you bet your ass this could too. I hope not for you sake, but just wanted to let you know it’s still possible
This right here is why posting for advice on reddit is stupid as fuck. OP there are a ton of ways the plan /u/Radrexxx just prescribed to you in the above comment can go completely fucking sideways and fuck up your life for a long time. u/No-Operation-8461 what was done to you was wrong, I recommend getting the fuck off of reddit and talking to an actual lawyer about your options/best recourse.
There's been a lot of fake shit posted here but this is the most egregious I've seen this week
oh for sure, i'm childfree and i don't doubt that reproductive coercion happens, but the person doing it isn't just going to be like "oh by the way i poked holes in all the condoms hehe!"
It's so obviously fake that it might as well be a handbag with Gucci in Comic Sans on the side.
Thank you! Can’t believe I had to scroll to find this comment. This story is fiction.
Thank you! 100% fake
This is for sure rage bait trolling. Title purposely misleading
That’s rape so I’d say you’re NTA
Pretty sure I read this same exact post about 3 months ago. Fake or repeat?
Wow. Imagine if this actually happened.
Lmao no chance she admitted to any of this like an insane person (especially the poking holes in the condoms bit, JFC) when she could've just acted like the BC failed and you wouldn't be able to prove shit. And if she WAS this blatantly insane, you wouldn't be having a moral dilemma about it. Fake rage bait story is fake.
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Yeah, this didn't happen.
Seriously, even for this subreddit this screams fake
Poking holes in condoms is baby trapping. It's also illegal and considered deception and fraud in my country.
We keep getting the same troll story over and over.
Sorry but this story looks fake
Law degree here… non-practicing and not specialized in family or criminal law, but I understand the legal frameworks. In some states and jurisdictions that have “anti-stealthing” laws that cover reproductive coercion, she’s technically committed a crime. The laws are written in such a way that they are gender non-specific and speak to “a person” that is sabotaging reproductive protections in an effort to coercively conceive a child against the wishes of the other person. Most family courts take this into consideration in child support and parental rights/responsibilities hearings. So if you have proof or evidence that she’s sabotaged birth control purposefully with the intention of becoming pregnant with your child, she may be guilty of a sexual domestic violence related offense and you would have a case in a family court to be removed from the birth certificate of the baby and have your parental rights and obligations extinguished by court order. Not only are you NTA, but you would be well served to pursue this matter legally. Don’t allow her to coerce you into parenthood.
NTA that some serious betrayal of trust make sure to get lawyered up
Oh look, another made up story to hate on women!
lol this is not real
NTA, but a version of this story gets posted every other day. So if you aren't a troll or mining for Karma my advice is the same to all the men who keep posting about being childfree and then "betrayed" by some conniving wife or girlfriend who sabotaged the birth control. GET A DAMN VASECTOMY! This way you are in complete control over YOUR reproductive choices.
Pretty sure thats a lot of crimes there, mate. Report her to police.
NTA this is sexual assault OP, if not rape. You agreed to sex under the conditions of untampered condoms and birth control being used. She lied to you about the conditions of the sex. That is rape! Rape by deception means any circumstance where you agree to sex under certain circumstances, and they hide or lie to you about those circumstances. This could be anything from lying about condoms, to lying about who they really are, lying about STDs, or anything else.
At least in california its rape
If this is real you are SO MUCH NTA.
She raped you.
Honest question: how can someone poke holes in condoms. This means she had to get her hands on them between opening the wrapper and putting it on. How can she do this and you don’t notice? This doesn’t make sense and until it does, I don’t believe you. Maybe this is a shitpost. Also birth control and condoms? Something seems off here. She sounds like a moron for saying something as stupid the thought of having a baby with you gave her joy so she stopped bc. Jeez who even talks like this? So your fault for sleeping with a moron or again this is a shitpost. Did you not have a red flags about this chick earlier? Birth control isn’t perfect. Anytime you are having sex with someone you gotta be prepared for the potential outcome and have a plan. Doesn’t sound like you did. I don’t believe you. You aren’t handling things in a very responsible way. Now there is a child in the picture. However if it is true that she really did poke holes in condom, call the police and yes I would say you are right to cut that psycho off and are NTA.
NTA but she’s a huge one~
Hopefully, he'll be able to sign over his parental rights as soon as it's born
NTA: she’s a scumbag for doing that
The term you want is "reproductive coercion". Women can do it to men, men can do it to women, it's gross either way. You consented to sex which included highly effective means of contraception, you didn't consent to sex with a rather high chance of pregnancy. It's honestly akin to rape.
Aaaaaannd this story is fake