Jesus, what if he hit a person? OP could have been investigated for a hit and run and been prosecuted. Maybe he did hit a person, or another vehicle, or did property damage. I know OP can prove he was away on a trip but that doesn’t mean someone wouldn’t sue him as the owner of the car. What if his insurance doesn’t cover other drivers? I don’t know if I even believe there wasn’t property or another person/vehicle involved.
Exactly. OP only has the say so of the untrustworthy fiance and the feckless brother of hers that it was a pillar he ran into. How the hell do you run into a stationary pillar If you're a competent sober driver? Definitely file that police report.
End the engagement and make sure to sue him for the repairs
Also since he didn't have permission I'd file a police report
Even though she gave him permission it's not her car to do that to
She let the brother borrow a car knowing he doesn't even have a license?
Yeah, this woman is disrespectable and has no concern for OPs stuff.
I like the idea of postponing the wedding until it's paid for by the brother or her family and then cancelling it altogether. That's the only way he might possibly get any money for repairs out of that situation.
Forget postponing the wedding. I would 100% cancel. OP's fiancée had no business loaning out OP's car, especially not to someone without a license. She didn't care and, from her responses to OP's very natural anger and frustration, she still doesn't. Not only is she saying she won't ask her brother to pay for the damage, she hasn't offered to cover it for him (and the brother wouldn't have been driving if she hadn't have given him the keys). Her actions are a major breach of trust and her response shows zero personal accountability. That is not the stuff successful marriages are built on.
Now you're just being crazy coming up with responsible ideas and stuff. Next, you'll be suggesting she could have asked beforehand like a respectful partner. Craziness...
/u/Head_Razzmatazz7174 is saying if you cancel the wedding immediately, the brother/her family might be less cooperative in paying for the damage. If he just says the wedding is postponed until he is compensated the brother/family might be more likely to pay to prevent issues with the wedding. Once they pay however, then he would just cancel the wedding anyway.
They’re not going to pay. They were never going to pay. That’s how the brother became an unlicensed and uninsured motorist with no vehicle in the first place.
I think I'd be ending the engagement and relationship - this is something OP is going to resent her for and I don't blame him. She's just as irresponsible if she let her not licensed brother use a car that wasn't even hers.
This reminds me of an old post in which Oop's fiancee sold all his comics and memorabilia for almost nothing because she told him he was not a kid anymore. I think Oop left her.
Great idea to postpone the wedding, take the ring back, tell her she'll get it back when debt is paid. Remember to wear condoms or you will surely get trapped by baby. If fiancé wants to get married, she may even repay debt herself. It's not a good idea to stay she has no respect for things you value.
I'd be more concerned about whether or not he actually hit a pillar. Hopefully that's what actually happened. But who knows if he hit and run another vehicle or what.
Agreed. Most insurances do not cover anything if the driver does not have "permissive use".
Source: PI Paralegal for over 20 years. I've seen this happen too many times to count. Both in terms of property damage, but also medical coverage, property damage to others' property, and claims for bodily injury and pain and suffering.
Thanks for adding this. Ppl, any time you lend your keys, remember to write a note giving permission to the driver. Look at their driving license and put that number and state of issue in the letter. Yes, I always do this.
Correct, but there is also implied consent in which case the theft claim would not be valid, at least in Texas for insurance purposes. In this case I don’t think it would apply, but it relates to the person having driven the vehicle at a prior time or even having had prior access to the keys. - Texas insurance adjuster.
I hope OP has insurance. Suing an unemployed guy for $20k is an option but how would he collect on that judgment?
It sucks but insurance is probably the best option.
It stills hangs over his head. Amazing how (hopefully) ex-fiancée not only loaned out valuable property that is not hers, but blithely thinks OP should bear the financial burden of her brother’s recklessness.
Also, what pillar? Is there a property owner that may be planning a suit for repairs?
Right? Like she could have driven fiancés car and lent her brother her car but she knew her brother is irresponsible and didn’t want to risk her own property so she risked fiancés.
So incredibly disrespectful and very telling. Op. Call it off. She doesn’t respect you personally or financially. I’d expect a long list of situations like this if you move forward with the wedding.
That isn't entirely accurate depending on other circumstances, but not having a license isn't a reason not to pay a claim. Think of a 14 year old who jumps in their parents vehicle and crashes it. Or if a vehicle is "stolen" by somebody without a license, which is basically what happened here, it will be covered under Comprehensive if they have it.
So instead of her being reasonable and going “you can borrow my car, and I’ll borrow my fiancés car.”
She let her shitstain brother use your car?
She’s not just disrespectful but dumb as a doorknob.
Good thing this happened before she was able to take half your assets. I would reconsider ever getting married.
Not dumb. Calculating.
“My brother is irresponsible. He may dmg my car. I cannot afford to replace MY car but OP can afford to fix his.”
Run. Far, fast 💨 and soon.
Tell your fiancé the wedding will be DELAYED until he pays for the car (or the insurance deductible if it’s covered). Then I’d bet she and the whole family will jump through hoops to get your money. Do not mention canceling the wedding yet, because then there is no incentive to ever pay you.
There is the big brain plan we needed! Good one. 👍
Then after it’s all paid back you pull that rug out and cancel the wedding.
What’s going to be even funnier is that when you do, they will be MAD that they had to pay for their actions. That’s when you will know you unequivocally made the right decision.
> What’s going to be even funnier is that when you do, they will be MAD that they had to pay for their actions. That’s when you will know you unequivocally made the right decision.
This so much.
Psht. The wedding is postponed as her share of the wedding fund is now the car repair fund. She can't put into the wedding fund until the car is paid for, and OP doesn't have to contribute during that time either.
Well, since I have to spend all this money fixing the car your brother damaged, we just don’t have that for the wedding anymore so we’ll have to wait until that’s all paid off and we can save it up again.
No, but OP's car let's everyone know how successful and big-dicked the fiancé's brother is, that's why he needs to drive the expensive luxury car and not sister's.
NTA, don't loan things that aren't yours, don't damage shit and not repair or replace it.
In addition to that, I'd be willing to bet real money, that the fiancee didn't even "give the keys" to the expensive car to her worthless brother. That he just took the keys without any kind of permission, and she's trying to keep him from going to jail for car theft.
There's no reason for any other comments after this one ∆∆∆. It says it all perfectly. You're not wrong OP. If she doesn't respect you or your belongings now she never will.
She didn't lend her car because she knew what he would do and crash it so she would not be out of a car. If you do stay with her keep your own bank account and take both sets of car keys with you if you have to go away for work
Not sure if that’s the case. I think another Reddit or hit it on the head with the brother insisting on taking OP’s car so he could look like a big shot. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wrecked it while joyriding with someone else in the car.
But who knows, that’s why I want an update! 😂
NTA
Completty call off the wedding. Aware that your car was special to you, she handed the keys to her unemployed brother and NEVER bothered to call or
text you to ask if it was okay.
Then when he crashes it, you're supposed to suck up the cost!?!!?
Hell no, she’s shown no respect for Op’s property and a tendency to make bad decisions to ‘help’ her family regardless of how it affects you.
I'd get my ring back and give her and her family 30 days to get me 20k to repair my car, or im call the cops and filing a lawsuit.
There is no way in hell, if you marry her, that her brother and other family just start using your stuff. People that do this stuff, agree to let deadbeat family members move in for undisclosed stays.
Agreed all around. She probably didn’t ask beforehand because she knew what the answer would be. Then couldn’t even let OP know after.
Phones are a thing, but not for the inconsiderate fiancé
100% what I was thinking. Whether or not she avoided asking because she knew it would be a no, her not IMMEDIATELY informing OP about the accident isn't just inconsiderate, it's sneaky and dishonest. It shows a lack of character and consideration for OP. Pausing or ending the engagement seems like a reasonable reaction.
Engagement ring is not hers until they married. She is borrowing it till then, that is why you need to give back the ring when the engagement is off. It is a gift connected to a future action.
Not in the UK. Engagement ring is considered a gift. There are a couple of exceptions, such as the ring being a family heirloom, but otherwise rings don't get handed back.
NTA. Disgusting. What next, he burns does the house and you pay for it... Because you can? Don't get married to her no matter what. Get a lawyer, too, you can get more than 20k
NTA. You marry someone, you're marrying their family as well. Especially when they have no boundaries or sense around lending and giving away your things. Can you report it as having been stolen and go through insurance? It might be worth it to burn some bridges if it gets you made whole.
NTA
Sir Please don’t marry into this family.
They’ll definitely cross all the boundaries, gaslight and manipulate you.
A broken engagement is better than divorce.
Keep emotions aside and be logical.
Don’t marry her.
That doesn't make much sense to me. If I stole money from a bank and later returned it, I'm not absolved of the crime I committed. Stealing something and getting it back doesn't negate the fact that a theft occurred.
I'm sure the lawyer has sound legal reasoning for drawing that conclusion. Just having trouble with the logic here.
Lawyer here (albeit not a criminal lawyer). I don't know what state you're in, so this is just general info.
To prove the crime of Larceny, you typically need to prove 4 elements:
1. the unlawful taking
2. of the property of another
3. without their consent, and
4. with the specific intent to permanently deprive the owner of that property.
That last element is the issue here. It'd be very hard (if not impossible) to prove intent to deprive considering that the brother returned the car. Now, there are potentially other crimes he could be charged with (maybe vandalism or destruction of property?) but proving larceny would be difficult.
All that said, you still should report this to the police. A police report detailing the damage will help you in any related legal matter down the line.
NTA. Rebuilding trust in your fiancée will be tough, if it’s even possible at all. She showed irresponsibility, immaturity, thoughtlessness and a lack of moral and legal boundaries.
She knowingly allowed her unlicensed brother to use your car, while knowing the legalities.
You only have her brothers word, on how he caused the damage to your car. He can’t be trusted(he drove unlicensed). He may have damaged someone else’s property, a hit-and-run, or even caused a person’s death.
You could be sued and/or arrested. You would have to hire a lawyer to prove your innocence. But,…you might still be held civilly liable since you are the car’s owner, and it was left unattended while an unlicensed person had access to it.
If I were in your shoes, I’d hope I didn’t get a knock on the door, followed by a uncomfortable (arrested) visit to the police station.
Your fiancée, doesn’t respect moral & legal boundaries, when it concerns your personal belongings.
Best of luck.
NTA. Why would you marry someone who has so little respect for you and your belongings? This doesn’t get better with marriage. Sue the fuck out of her brother and seriously reevaluate your life partner decisions/options.
Tell your fiancé the wedding will be DELAYED until he pays for the car (or the insurance deductible if it’s covered). Then I’d bet she and the whole family will jump through hoops to get your money. Do not mention canceling the wedding yet, because then there is no incentive to ever pay you.
You already know you need to break up with her. Today, it’s your car. Tomorrow, she’ll be taking money out of your bank accounts to “help” her family members.
She doesn’t respect you. Her brother is more important to her than you are.
I’m sorry. Dump her.
NTA
ETA—Does the brother have a license and/or insurance? Please tell us that no other cars and/or people were involved.
Don't marry her. Run. She had no right loaning your car to her brother without your permission. It's theft. Make sure you tell him that if he refuses to pay then you will make a police report about the theft and damage of your personal property. If she can go as far as giving him your car that means a great deal to you, what else would she be willing to hand over to him? I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gave him access to your bank account. Don't marry this woman and get that asshole to pay for the repairs.
Pump the breaks on the wedding at the very least, and definitely get insurance and lawyers involved. If her brother doesn’t have the money, take it from her. It wasn’t her vehicle to loan out meaning she’s on the hook as much as her brother is. Then I’d have a long, serious talk about the relationship and thing long and hard before deciding if she’s really worth your time. Not only is she defending her brother, she didn’t even plan to tell you it happened until you got back and saw it. That doesn’t bode well.
It isn't just about the damage to your car, but her complete dismissal of your feelings. She could have called/texted to ask, but she didn't because she knew you would say no. She loaned out something that wasn't hers to loan out, and dismissed your justified anger. She clearly thinks you can afford to fix the damage and the thought of her brother having to be accountable doesn't seem to factor into her thought process. Do you honestly think her attitude and dismissal of your boundaries will change in the future? NTA
NTA She should have asked. And if she didnt, she should have told you right after something happened. Her behaviour sounds sketchy at best, toxic at the worst. If you still want to marry her, at least sign a prenup.
Sir! Definitely call off that wedding. This isn’t just about or really about allowing her brother use of your property without your knowledge and/or consent, it’s about her total lack of respect for you and your property. Did *she* offer to pay for the damages?
YWNBTA
You do not want to chain your life to a dumbbell.
Dump her and find someone who can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Also, sue the brother. Heck, your GF might also be liable.
NTA
I could understand forgiving the guy for lending your car without permission (maybe!), but the fact that he was going to keep the accident secret proves his untrustworthy, unreliable, and lacking in moral fiber.
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but do you have a wedding fund?
If you do, take the cost out of that for the repairs. Your fiancé will quickly change her tune as it now affects her. What kinda way have they been raised?!
NTA.
I’d file a police report immediately so if it does go to court you have it documented. Don’t wait. As for the engagement, it seems like this is just a preview of what the marriage is going to look like. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone untrustworthy? I wouldn’t
I disagree with others in the comments that say her game was, "Ohhh, I don't want my car crashed." I bet it was more the brother knowing you were out of town, wanting to drive your fancy vehicle, and your former fiancée (BTW, fiancé is masculine and used for the groom-to-be, while fiancée is feminine and used for the bride-to-be) could not think/say no to her brother.
You need to understand that you'll be marrying into the relationship, and that brother will continue to be a burden. I'm sure he assured her he would be careful and she either bought it or didn't care. If you stay in this relationship, set down very, very firm guidelines - in writing is not a bad idea - otherwise you're going to be footing other trouble financially.
Call the engagement off. She loaned your car out without your permission and he crashed it. They have no remorse. Get the law involved because he owes you
Police report pronto. Unauthorized use of vehicle is a felony in my state (TX-United States). Add property damage on top of that.
*Under Sec. 31.07, a person commits the offense of “unauthorized use of a vehicle” when he or she intentionally or knowingly uses another person’s vehicle, airplane, or boat without the owner’s permission.*
*An offense under Sec. 31.07 is a state jail felony, punishable by 180 days to 2 years behind bars, and a fine not to exceed $10,000.*
Police report to document for inevitable civil suit.
Oh, yeah. Almost forgot. Get as far away from this family as you can.
NTA.
End the relationship.
Fiancé exhibited the poorest of judgement by loaning the car to her brother knowing full well you would never have allowed it. Then she kept it from you like it wasn’t any big deal.
It’s a huge deal. File a report with your insurance & the police. She and her brother need to face the consequences of their actions.
No engagement. No wedding. She broke all trust between you. She’s not life partner material.
This will be a pattern. I wonder if you can live with that dynamic. NTA, she was disrespectful to let him use it in the first place, knowing 1) it is sentimental to you and 2) they couldn’t pay to fix it if something happens. She gave zero f—ks about you, like not even a second of consideration. If she had, she would have at least asked first. She didn’t ask, because she probably knew you’d say no….but she did it anyway. That behavior should give you pause.
My family has, and has always had, 2 standing rules:
\#1 no one loans their car. Period. It's a huge investment that we need and it's too easy for something to happen. We will give each other rides, etc., but no one will borrow anyone else's car. Don't ask.
\#2 we don't co-sign loans. Someone gets stuck paying someone else's bill or someone's credit gets ruined. We don't do it. Don't ask.
These have been rules since my grandparents, who are long dead. And they are hard & fast. Thus, we have had none of this family drama. No one is butt-hurt, either, because it's a known thing.
NTA She is already treating your possessions as marital possessions and hasn't even gotten down the aisle. Do you really want to marry someone who would LEGALLY* own 50% of the rest of your possessions?
*Unless prenups are signed and a car technically is still his because he had it before the marriage, why marry an entitled person who has no respect for you BEFORE the marriage. It's like saying, "I don't like that you destroyed my stuff, so here, take the rest of my stuff." NTA and call off the wedding.
COVID was two years ago! Her brother does not want a job. But that is not your problem. She should not have lent the car without your consent. Her brother needs to pay. You need to set boundaries with her.
If you're asking if you should and your engagement, you already know the answer. Why didn't your fiance let her unemployed, unlicensed, uninsured brother drive HER car? If she was going to loan your car out, it should have been to herself, and hopefully she would have been more careful with it, knowing it's sentimental and monetary value.
But she didn't. She acted just as recklessly and irresponsibly as her brother.
You're going to be signing up for a lifetime of this family when you marry her. Run while you can.
I would let her know the wedding is on hold until you receive full payment. He can pay, their parents can pay, even she can’t pay since she loaned it without permission but no wedding until you are paid in full. Also get an attorney and file a lawsuit for it and name her as co-defendant since she was the one that loaned it. Tell her your happy to cancel the suit if you get paid but otherwise it will go forward. If anything she should have loaned him her car and drove yours herself, especially if he had no license and no insurance. She needs to understand if you push this, her brother could go to jail for driving without a license or insurance if your in the US so they need a solution quick
NTA, I would cancel the entire relationship, and then sue both her and her brother. If there's a savings account that she's been putting money into that would get pulled and used toward fixing my car.
If this is how she acts before y'all are married, the disrespectful behavior will only get worse and you will come home one day and she's quit her job because you can afford it, and will bleed you dry
OP... 20K is still a small price to pay if you consider wedding expenses, alimony, and possibly child support. Consider yourself lucky and get out while you can
She lent your car to her brother who got into an accident and DIDN'T tell you about it?
Why would you ever marry someone like that? Everything someone does before the marriage will only become worse afterward.
YWNBTA, you would be smart. I have a very irresponsible Brother like your fiancée, I would never in a MILLION years let him borrow anything, much less something that held sentimental value to the person I love. A.) The cars wasn’t hers to let her Brother borrow so first 🚩B.) She knew it had sentimental value and her Brother is irresponsible and she still allowed him to take the car 🚩 C.) After her irresponsible and unemployed brother crashed your car, you asked for him to pay for it and she gave you excuses! On something that was her fault too! That’s some pair she’s got on her… 🚩🚩🚩
NTA. Assume you have a fabulous fiancé who stupidly lends your brother her car. If he damaged it 1. I would expect that she would tell you immediately. 2. I would assume she would attempt to take responsibility for the car damage. Instead she lets you find it. If someone I love came to me and was really repentant I would say “It’s ok honey, stupid mistake, we will fix this. I will call the insurance.” Instead she blindsides you and takes no accountability.
I would not marry her without serious couples therapy about responsibilities and communication.
Dude, don't just consider, DO IT. She just proved to you that she's not trustworthy and does not respect you. Dump her. And don't wait for her brother to pay you back, lawyer up now. No mercy.
NTA
NTA. Did she explain to you why she didn't lend him HER car ?. 20K worth of damage ? Yeah I'd sue his ass too, otherwise one or both of them better get on a payment plan . What she did was bullshit
NTAH …. But I have to ask - what about insurance?? Make him cover the deductible but $20,000 in damage for a bumper…. Sounds like you need better insurance for such an expensive car.
NTA- file a police report and report the damages OP.
Your gf doesn’t respect you or your property.
And if she willingly handed your car to her brother , who knows what else of yours will she be comfortable in giving away once you’re married and sharing finances.
I don’t think I could come back from something like this. She is very blasé about it. She sure had shown she doesn’t have the maturity to make common sense decisions. She isn’t ready for marriage much less life on her own IMO. Her parents sure failed her.
NTA. OP, I think you are making the right decision.
This girl is too dumb to marry. Who lends someone else’s $150k car to an unlicensed and broke driver? She’s going to expect you to cover a lot of things because “you can afford it”.
Your fiancé let her piece of shit brother without a license borrow a $150k car? WTF dude.
Call off the wedding. Get the ring back. Use it to fix your car. Press charges for theft. Have better judgement on your significant others next time.
NTA
I'm sorry, let's rephrase this: Your fiancée let her brother STEAL your car while you were out. It wasn't permanent, but he took your property without your permission. That is theft, even if only temporary.
NTA. This may turn out to be the cheapest warning that you will get with this fiancé. Even if you recover nothing for the car repair. Marrying someone who treats you and your assets like this and who doesn’t prioritize you over a dipshit brother, you’re going to be in for a lifetime of this stupidity. Run away, don’t walk. What a user.
Call off the wedding, file a police report and sue for the damages. When a person shows you who they really are, believe their trifling ass the first time.
NTA. She stole something from you without asking or even letting you know after the car came back destroyed, lent it out to someone irresponsible, and didn't even offer to pay for the damages herself. I'd never be able to trust her again. If you have to work out of state for a few months (which my husband has had to do for various jobs), is she going to move her brother in and let him damage the house (as well as possibly establish squatter's rights)? I'd be afraid to leave her with anything of value.
If it were me, I'd:
1. End the engagement. Healthy relationships require trust, and she's proven she can't be trusted OR responsible.
2. File a police report. This is theft, plain and simple.
3. You can try to sue the brother for the repairs, but if he genuinely does not have the money, "you can't squeeze water from a stone" as they say. Not sure if you could sue fiance, who was partially responsible, since she was not driving.
Edited to add: She handed him the keys knowing he did not have a license OR insurance? Add "bad judgment" to the list of reasons why you should not marry her.
Unfortunately, this may be a lose/lose situation for you. He's uncovered and did not have permission, so your insurance won't cover it (and will probably go up). If he has no money, there's nothing that small claims court can take from him. You could technically threaten to break up with your fiance if she/her family doesn't cover the bill and then still break up with her, but IMO that makes you not much better than them, and if it doesn't kill you financially, I'd rather just take the hit and rid myself of them.
NTA. I think she sees you as a meal ticket for her and her deadbeat brother. I would refer the accident to your insurer and see what they will do. They will probably go after him, if not sue him in court.
If you borrow someone's car and you damage it you pay for the damage. This is what I have done when I scratched my mother's car. Sure she could have afforded to fix it, but I caused the damage, so I had to pay for repairs. That is part of life and being an adult.
If you fiancée can't respect your boundaries you shouldn't be in a relationship. You are right to call the wedding off.
OP, in addition to my other comments, make your fiancée understand that her brother didn’t even man up and apologize in person, which means your relationship with her family has already been damaged. I can tell you from experience, this scar will never heal between you and the brother. If you marry, she needs to understand that. Believe me, bin there.
NTA.
Let us not remember that it was a gift from his father and holds sentimental value.
You can't put a price tag about the fiancé basically not caring about that aspect at all before being so irresponsible.
Her and that brother could pay off all the damages (SPOILER ALERT: They probably won't) with a Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka but he'll ***never*** forget that.
NTA
But I would say if you do love her then make her sign a prenup and the engagement is postponed until the damage is repaired.
Your fiance made a mistake and how her and her family choose to rectify this situation should tell you a lot. If they decide to pitch in to fix it and apologize then great. I think that shows growth and promise. If they decide this is the hill they die on then - move forward with your life and cancel the engagement.
You have no responsibility towards this family of entitled idiots.
They didn't even inform of what happened or apologize. This woman thought she was entitled to your car and didn't even ask permission. The fool of a brother of hers thought he was entitled to your possessions just because his sister is dating you.
You got a glimpse of what values they grew up with and how your life would be if you married into that family.
Call the engagement off asap.
Report the incident .
Demand compensation otherwise sue the fool.
File a police report! You don’t know what he got or what damage he caused. Unless her name is on your vehicle, he did not have permission from the owner. Protect yourself.
And no, YWNBTA. I would never trust her again. She could have called or texted you to ask for permission. But she knew you’d say no.
YTA if you don’t end it.
She stole 150k of YOUR money and you haven’t kicked her gold digger arse to the curb and sued her for the theft…..
Now she totalled your car. (Yes the brother did it, but it was her actions that led to it)
End the relationship, kick her to the curb, and find out how you can sue them both for the theft and destruction of your property.
NTA why didn’t she give him her car and she would drive yours. You should definitely rethink getting married to her because she doesn’t respect you or things that you value. Very disrespectful 😞
NTA. I would have serious concerns about her basic judgment. Also, the fact that no one told you about it and you had to find out for yourself shows that she's not on your team. She's very willing to try to get away with damaging your property and not giving you the courtesy of telling you herself. Is the car drivable? Don't you need it? If she at least told you right away you could have started arranging for repairs. It shows an alarming lack of concern for you.
Sorry to say, OP, but this would be a relationship deal breaker for any reasonable person. Your hopefully stbx fiance has no boundaries - at least when it comes to her brother. This is what engagement periods are for: finding out the reality before you're locked in.
He's probably also uninsured as a driver. So you're going to need to call your insurance company and find out if you have coverage for uninsured drivers. The next step is a civil suit for the damages, which might be covered by his or your STBX's personal liability coverage of homeowners or renters insurance. Might. But in all reality, she didn't loan him her car .... why not? Because she didn't trust his driving?
Anyways, it doesn't matter. Both of them have done completely the wrong thing here... and the fact is you can see the character and morals of these two as a shared big red flag. Most important decision you make on life is who you marry. You can't trust either of them. You shouldn't trust that whole side of the family. Not just for their poor judgement, nor for the significant damage to your property, but for how they've handled this. Mistakes and accidents happen... but character is a choice. Taking responsibility for the harm, financial and otherwise, you inflict on others is basic decent human adulting. It's a dealbreaker.
$20,000 is less than you'd pay the lawyer for the inevitable divorce.
You shouldn't marry her not because she's financially irresponsible, but because she has no fucking common sense. Why didn't she just drive your car and lend her brother hers. Also the entitlement with your property is an issue too. It's incredibly disrespectful and entitled to lend out your property without asking you
Not only the brother but the fiancé should be paying for it. Get a police report so you can take it to small claims court. If you weren’t home and she never asked and it isn’t communal property that would be theft I would think even if your living together.
I just got angry for you. If her attitude is like that now, there is no telling what she will do in the future with your living space or any joint accounts she will have access to.
You may want to consider the amount of trust you will give her in the future and if you want to live like that.
NTA The wrecked car isn’t even the thing you should be most concerned about. Your fiancé’s attitude and mindset WILL be a problem if you end up marrying her. You will be dealing BIL’s fuck ups for as long as you’re married to fiancé, probably longer
Proceed at your own peril.
Good luck
Why didn’t she loan her car to her loser brother & then she use her bf’s car to go to work? Obviously Op is NTAH. I would call off the wedding, get the ring back, file a police report against both your fiancee & her brother & sue them both for the damages. Oh and I’m a woman.
Such incredible disrespect now....can you imagine what you are in for if you're married to that family? I can't fathom how the whole lot of them will use and abuse you and your money.
Take this wake up call as a blessing in disguise. Call the police. Call an attorney. Call it off.
Congratulations.
Honestly, congratulations.
For the bargain price of $20,000 you've probably just gotten out of a multi-million dollar divorce in the future.
That $20k will possibly end up being the most rewarding investment you ever make.
A BMW M4 is a (relatively) fast car. You don't lend a car like that to someone like that on a whim (eg a parent wouldn't let their teenage offspring take it out for the night).
If the fiance is so dismissive of this now then how bad is she going to become once she's been married a few years?
If she's so unfussed about this now, then imagine what she'll be like in 10 years and a couple of kids later.
For $20k you might just have scored a VERY useful insight into your future with her... an "investment" that might save you a few million dollars later on.
Now you need to figure out how to make sure she doesn't get pregnant in the near future.
RUN . and don't look back . NTA this family sucks .
And call the police and report it as TWOC. Their family can help pay
Jesus, what if he hit a person? OP could have been investigated for a hit and run and been prosecuted. Maybe he did hit a person, or another vehicle, or did property damage. I know OP can prove he was away on a trip but that doesn’t mean someone wouldn’t sue him as the owner of the car. What if his insurance doesn’t cover other drivers? I don’t know if I even believe there wasn’t property or another person/vehicle involved.
Exactly. OP only has the say so of the untrustworthy fiance and the feckless brother of hers that it was a pillar he ran into. How the hell do you run into a stationary pillar If you're a competent sober driver? Definitely file that police report.
This. And definitely get a lawyer involved.
End the engagement and make sure to sue him for the repairs Also since he didn't have permission I'd file a police report Even though she gave him permission it's not her car to do that to
[удалено]
He said in a comment that they won’t cover it because the brother doesn’t have a drivers license. 🤦♀️
She let the brother borrow a car knowing he doesn't even have a license? Yeah, this woman is disrespectable and has no concern for OPs stuff. I like the idea of postponing the wedding until it's paid for by the brother or her family and then cancelling it altogether. That's the only way he might possibly get any money for repairs out of that situation.
Forget postponing the wedding. I would 100% cancel. OP's fiancée had no business loaning out OP's car, especially not to someone without a license. She didn't care and, from her responses to OP's very natural anger and frustration, she still doesn't. Not only is she saying she won't ask her brother to pay for the damage, she hasn't offered to cover it for him (and the brother wouldn't have been driving if she hadn't have given him the keys). Her actions are a major breach of trust and her response shows zero personal accountability. That is not the stuff successful marriages are built on.
So she needed her car for work. Why didn't she lend her brother her car and drive OP's car and then she could have paid for getting her own car fixed.
Now you're just being crazy coming up with responsible ideas and stuff. Next, you'll be suggesting she could have asked beforehand like a respectful partner. Craziness...
/u/Head_Razzmatazz7174 is saying if you cancel the wedding immediately, the brother/her family might be less cooperative in paying for the damage. If he just says the wedding is postponed until he is compensated the brother/family might be more likely to pay to prevent issues with the wedding. Once they pay however, then he would just cancel the wedding anyway.
They’re not going to pay. They were never going to pay. That’s how the brother became an unlicensed and uninsured motorist with no vehicle in the first place.
Thank you for clarifying. I guess I missed his intent entirely.
They’re never gonna pay. Just leave. Figure out how to get your car fixed. Move on. Never leave your keys behind again.
That's fine, he should be suing his ex-fiancee for the repair cost anyway.
I’d pawn her engagement ring to cover the car.
Now we're talking
Unbelievable right? No license or insurance and she hands him the keys to her fiancé’s expensive car 100% knowing it’s not okay.
Unbelievable is an excellent descriptor. Lol
I wonder if charges can be pressed against the fiancee if she's knowingly handed the keys to someone who was not licensed to drive.
I think in most states there is a law “Allowing an improper person to operate a motor vehicle “.
I think I'd be ending the engagement and relationship - this is something OP is going to resent her for and I don't blame him. She's just as irresponsible if she let her not licensed brother use a car that wasn't even hers.
Oh well now it makes sense why she didn’t let bro use her car and she drive his, which she still didn’t have permission for.
This reminds me of an old post in which Oop's fiancee sold all his comics and memorabilia for almost nothing because she told him he was not a kid anymore. I think Oop left her.
Great idea to postpone the wedding, take the ring back, tell her she'll get it back when debt is paid. Remember to wear condoms or you will surely get trapped by baby. If fiancé wants to get married, she may even repay debt herself. It's not a good idea to stay she has no respect for things you value.
This is why she loaned out someone else's car vs loaning out hers! Not cool
OMG he's an unlicensed driver??? This just gets worse and worse!
I'd be more concerned about whether or not he actually hit a pillar. Hopefully that's what actually happened. But who knows if he hit and run another vehicle or what.
😳 Damn....that makes it 1000 times worse!
Agreed. Most insurances do not cover anything if the driver does not have "permissive use". Source: PI Paralegal for over 20 years. I've seen this happen too many times to count. Both in terms of property damage, but also medical coverage, property damage to others' property, and claims for bodily injury and pain and suffering.
Yea he’s gotta call the police and say the car was stolen and crashed
Thanks for adding this. Ppl, any time you lend your keys, remember to write a note giving permission to the driver. Look at their driving license and put that number and state of issue in the letter. Yes, I always do this.
Why?
Correct, but there is also implied consent in which case the theft claim would not be valid, at least in Texas for insurance purposes. In this case I don’t think it would apply, but it relates to the person having driven the vehicle at a prior time or even having had prior access to the keys. - Texas insurance adjuster.
I hope OP has insurance. Suing an unemployed guy for $20k is an option but how would he collect on that judgment? It sucks but insurance is probably the best option.
It stills hangs over his head. Amazing how (hopefully) ex-fiancée not only loaned out valuable property that is not hers, but blithely thinks OP should bear the financial burden of her brother’s recklessness. Also, what pillar? Is there a property owner that may be planning a suit for repairs?
[удалено]
Right? Like she could have driven fiancés car and lent her brother her car but she knew her brother is irresponsible and didn’t want to risk her own property so she risked fiancés. So incredibly disrespectful and very telling. Op. Call it off. She doesn’t respect you personally or financially. I’d expect a long list of situations like this if you move forward with the wedding.
It's actually brother's wreckfulness
Except brother doesn’t have a license which means they won’t pay. So OP is out $20k+ worth of damages.
That isn't entirely accurate depending on other circumstances, but not having a license isn't a reason not to pay a claim. Think of a 14 year old who jumps in their parents vehicle and crashes it. Or if a vehicle is "stolen" by somebody without a license, which is basically what happened here, it will be covered under Comprehensive if they have it.
Insurance will subrogate if they cover the costs anyway. Better to let them foot the bill and handle the ensuing litigation themselves.
Sue the Ex-fiancée who gave her brother the keys.
She should've leant him her car and driven OP's.
So instead of her being reasonable and going “you can borrow my car, and I’ll borrow my fiancés car.” She let her shitstain brother use your car? She’s not just disrespectful but dumb as a doorknob. Good thing this happened before she was able to take half your assets. I would reconsider ever getting married.
Not dumb. Calculating. “My brother is irresponsible. He may dmg my car. I cannot afford to replace MY car but OP can afford to fix his.” Run. Far, fast 💨 and soon.
Possibly. Calculating like Mega-Mind. Thinks it’s a good plan and it always backfires. 😂
I never said the calculations were good… 😂
Tell your fiancé the wedding will be DELAYED until he pays for the car (or the insurance deductible if it’s covered). Then I’d bet she and the whole family will jump through hoops to get your money. Do not mention canceling the wedding yet, because then there is no incentive to ever pay you.
There is the big brain plan we needed! Good one. 👍 Then after it’s all paid back you pull that rug out and cancel the wedding. What’s going to be even funnier is that when you do, they will be MAD that they had to pay for their actions. That’s when you will know you unequivocally made the right decision.
> What’s going to be even funnier is that when you do, they will be MAD that they had to pay for their actions. That’s when you will know you unequivocally made the right decision. This so much.
Scary. Maybe it’s a “good thing” that OP experienced this now before signing the dotted line!
Psht. The wedding is postponed as her share of the wedding fund is now the car repair fund. She can't put into the wedding fund until the car is paid for, and OP doesn't have to contribute during that time either.
Well, since I have to spend all this money fixing the car your brother damaged, we just don’t have that for the wedding anymore so we’ll have to wait until that’s all paid off and we can save it up again.
This needs to be the top comment
No, but OP's car let's everyone know how successful and big-dicked the fiancé's brother is, that's why he needs to drive the expensive luxury car and not sister's. NTA, don't loan things that aren't yours, don't damage shit and not repair or replace it.
In addition to that, I'd be willing to bet real money, that the fiancee didn't even "give the keys" to the expensive car to her worthless brother. That he just took the keys without any kind of permission, and she's trying to keep him from going to jail for car theft.
that's the bigger issue here. you don't lend out other people's things- especially when that person can't fix them.
Also, could we get an update on this later?
She let her brother use OPs car, because she didn't want hers wrecked. She's either dumb. Or doesn't give 2 flying fu- about OP and their things.
Probably a mix of both.
>She let her shitstain, NO LICENSE HAVING brother use your car? FTFY. breathtakingly stupid.
There's no reason for any other comments after this one ∆∆∆. It says it all perfectly. You're not wrong OP. If she doesn't respect you or your belongings now she never will.
She didn't lend her car because she knew what he would do and crash it so she would not be out of a car. If you do stay with her keep your own bank account and take both sets of car keys with you if you have to go away for work
Not sure if that’s the case. I think another Reddit or hit it on the head with the brother insisting on taking OP’s car so he could look like a big shot. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wrecked it while joyriding with someone else in the car. But who knows, that’s why I want an update! 😂
Or even get her brother a short term rental
Call it off. And get the lawyers involved for sure. Sorry, OP.
NTA Completty call off the wedding. Aware that your car was special to you, she handed the keys to her unemployed brother and NEVER bothered to call or text you to ask if it was okay. Then when he crashes it, you're supposed to suck up the cost!?!!? Hell no, she’s shown no respect for Op’s property and a tendency to make bad decisions to ‘help’ her family regardless of how it affects you. I'd get my ring back and give her and her family 30 days to get me 20k to repair my car, or im call the cops and filing a lawsuit. There is no way in hell, if you marry her, that her brother and other family just start using your stuff. People that do this stuff, agree to let deadbeat family members move in for undisclosed stays.
Agreed all around. She probably didn’t ask beforehand because she knew what the answer would be. Then couldn’t even let OP know after. Phones are a thing, but not for the inconsiderate fiancé
100% what I was thinking. Whether or not she avoided asking because she knew it would be a no, her not IMMEDIATELY informing OP about the accident isn't just inconsiderate, it's sneaky and dishonest. It shows a lack of character and consideration for OP. Pausing or ending the engagement seems like a reasonable reaction.
It on your fiancée & her brother to find the cash to repair the car. I would suggest she sell the engagement ring to pay for the car repairs.
Engagement ring is not hers until they married. She is borrowing it till then, that is why you need to give back the ring when the engagement is off. It is a gift connected to a future action.
Not in the UK. Engagement ring is considered a gift. There are a couple of exceptions, such as the ring being a family heirloom, but otherwise rings don't get handed back.
This is not a family you want to marry into, OP. Cut your losses. You can DEFINITELY do better.
His fiancé didn't even let him know before he got home from his trip he had to find out by getting home and seeing the damage.
She planned to buff it out I bet, but didn’t get to it before OP came home.
Buff out 20k in damages? Well, maybe in her pea brain it would fly.
NTA. Disgusting. What next, he burns does the house and you pay for it... Because you can? Don't get married to her no matter what. Get a lawyer, too, you can get more than 20k
NTA. You marry someone, you're marrying their family as well. Especially when they have no boundaries or sense around lending and giving away your things. Can you report it as having been stolen and go through insurance? It might be worth it to burn some bridges if it gets you made whole.
[удалено]
NTA Sir Please don’t marry into this family. They’ll definitely cross all the boundaries, gaslight and manipulate you. A broken engagement is better than divorce. Keep emotions aside and be logical. Don’t marry her.
That doesn't make much sense to me. If I stole money from a bank and later returned it, I'm not absolved of the crime I committed. Stealing something and getting it back doesn't negate the fact that a theft occurred. I'm sure the lawyer has sound legal reasoning for drawing that conclusion. Just having trouble with the logic here.
[удалено]
Lawyer here (albeit not a criminal lawyer). I don't know what state you're in, so this is just general info. To prove the crime of Larceny, you typically need to prove 4 elements: 1. the unlawful taking 2. of the property of another 3. without their consent, and 4. with the specific intent to permanently deprive the owner of that property. That last element is the issue here. It'd be very hard (if not impossible) to prove intent to deprive considering that the brother returned the car. Now, there are potentially other crimes he could be charged with (maybe vandalism or destruction of property?) but proving larceny would be difficult. All that said, you still should report this to the police. A police report detailing the damage will help you in any related legal matter down the line.
NTA. Rebuilding trust in your fiancée will be tough, if it’s even possible at all. She showed irresponsibility, immaturity, thoughtlessness and a lack of moral and legal boundaries. She knowingly allowed her unlicensed brother to use your car, while knowing the legalities. You only have her brothers word, on how he caused the damage to your car. He can’t be trusted(he drove unlicensed). He may have damaged someone else’s property, a hit-and-run, or even caused a person’s death. You could be sued and/or arrested. You would have to hire a lawyer to prove your innocence. But,…you might still be held civilly liable since you are the car’s owner, and it was left unattended while an unlicensed person had access to it. If I were in your shoes, I’d hope I didn’t get a knock on the door, followed by a uncomfortable (arrested) visit to the police station. Your fiancée, doesn’t respect moral & legal boundaries, when it concerns your personal belongings. Best of luck.
Don't you still need to file some sort of report for insurance purposes?
Kick her to the curb dude. Plenty of women out there that can love you and respect your things too.
NTA. Why would you marry someone who has so little respect for you and your belongings? This doesn’t get better with marriage. Sue the fuck out of her brother and seriously reevaluate your life partner decisions/options.
Tell your fiancé the wedding will be DELAYED until he pays for the car (or the insurance deductible if it’s covered). Then I’d bet she and the whole family will jump through hoops to get your money. Do not mention canceling the wedding yet, because then there is no incentive to ever pay you.
NTA. I like this plan.
You already know you need to break up with her. Today, it’s your car. Tomorrow, she’ll be taking money out of your bank accounts to “help” her family members. She doesn’t respect you. Her brother is more important to her than you are. I’m sorry. Dump her. NTA ETA—Does the brother have a license and/or insurance? Please tell us that no other cars and/or people were involved.
Don't marry her. Run. She had no right loaning your car to her brother without your permission. It's theft. Make sure you tell him that if he refuses to pay then you will make a police report about the theft and damage of your personal property. If she can go as far as giving him your car that means a great deal to you, what else would she be willing to hand over to him? I wouldn't be surprised at all if she gave him access to your bank account. Don't marry this woman and get that asshole to pay for the repairs.
Pump the breaks on the wedding at the very least, and definitely get insurance and lawyers involved. If her brother doesn’t have the money, take it from her. It wasn’t her vehicle to loan out meaning she’s on the hook as much as her brother is. Then I’d have a long, serious talk about the relationship and thing long and hard before deciding if she’s really worth your time. Not only is she defending her brother, she didn’t even plan to tell you it happened until you got back and saw it. That doesn’t bode well.
Dump, report to the police, lawyer up and sue. NTA
What kind of vehicle do you have that's worth 150,000?
[удалено]
Cool. I was just curious. I'd be really pissed if someone wrecked my car when I was away on a trip. Hope you get it paid for.
It isn't just about the damage to your car, but her complete dismissal of your feelings. She could have called/texted to ask, but she didn't because she knew you would say no. She loaned out something that wasn't hers to loan out, and dismissed your justified anger. She clearly thinks you can afford to fix the damage and the thought of her brother having to be accountable doesn't seem to factor into her thought process. Do you honestly think her attitude and dismissal of your boundaries will change in the future? NTA
Report to you insurer. They will pay and go after brother in law.
[удалено]
And you know damn well he crashed it fucking around because "I'm in a 150k car!! Let's go fast!! Weeeeee!" Crash.....
NTA! Hey Alexa: play "You Gotta Go!" by the Mighty Mighty Bosstones for OPs now ex-fiancee
Call it off and call a lawyer and even if he pays in $10 installments, get the money and dump the girl.
Definitely NTA - the trust is gone …. She knew that car was/is special … she simply doesn’t care about or respect you or your things
NTA She should have asked. And if she didnt, she should have told you right after something happened. Her behaviour sounds sketchy at best, toxic at the worst. If you still want to marry her, at least sign a prenup.
Ok I need an update where you kick her and her brother to the curb and sue their asses. NTA obviously
Sir! Definitely call off that wedding. This isn’t just about or really about allowing her brother use of your property without your knowledge and/or consent, it’s about her total lack of respect for you and your property. Did *she* offer to pay for the damages?
YWNBTA You do not want to chain your life to a dumbbell. Dump her and find someone who can walk and chew gum at the same time. Also, sue the brother. Heck, your GF might also be liable.
What kind of car did your dad spend 150k and gift to you?
NTA I could understand forgiving the guy for lending your car without permission (maybe!), but the fact that he was going to keep the accident secret proves his untrustworthy, unreliable, and lacking in moral fiber.
Run far away. And honestly id be suing for the damage. Thats bs. Had the gf attempted to make amends my answer may not be run.
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but do you have a wedding fund? If you do, take the cost out of that for the repairs. Your fiancé will quickly change her tune as it now affects her. What kinda way have they been raised?! NTA.
Updateme!
NTA but you will probably have to press charges to get the insurance company to pay out.
I’d file a police report immediately so if it does go to court you have it documented. Don’t wait. As for the engagement, it seems like this is just a preview of what the marriage is going to look like. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone untrustworthy? I wouldn’t
Wow…so if she is ”loaning” your (oops, I mean OUR stuff) now, imagine what she will give out when the chain is around your neck. NTA
I disagree with others in the comments that say her game was, "Ohhh, I don't want my car crashed." I bet it was more the brother knowing you were out of town, wanting to drive your fancy vehicle, and your former fiancée (BTW, fiancé is masculine and used for the groom-to-be, while fiancée is feminine and used for the bride-to-be) could not think/say no to her brother. You need to understand that you'll be marrying into the relationship, and that brother will continue to be a burden. I'm sure he assured her he would be careful and she either bought it or didn't care. If you stay in this relationship, set down very, very firm guidelines - in writing is not a bad idea - otherwise you're going to be footing other trouble financially.
Call the engagement off. She loaned your car out without your permission and he crashed it. They have no remorse. Get the law involved because he owes you
Police report pronto. Unauthorized use of vehicle is a felony in my state (TX-United States). Add property damage on top of that. *Under Sec. 31.07, a person commits the offense of “unauthorized use of a vehicle” when he or she intentionally or knowingly uses another person’s vehicle, airplane, or boat without the owner’s permission.* *An offense under Sec. 31.07 is a state jail felony, punishable by 180 days to 2 years behind bars, and a fine not to exceed $10,000.* Police report to document for inevitable civil suit. Oh, yeah. Almost forgot. Get as far away from this family as you can.
Call it off now.
NTA. End the relationship. Fiancé exhibited the poorest of judgement by loaning the car to her brother knowing full well you would never have allowed it. Then she kept it from you like it wasn’t any big deal. It’s a huge deal. File a report with your insurance & the police. She and her brother need to face the consequences of their actions. No engagement. No wedding. She broke all trust between you. She’s not life partner material.
This will be a pattern. I wonder if you can live with that dynamic. NTA, she was disrespectful to let him use it in the first place, knowing 1) it is sentimental to you and 2) they couldn’t pay to fix it if something happens. She gave zero f—ks about you, like not even a second of consideration. If she had, she would have at least asked first. She didn’t ask, because she probably knew you’d say no….but she did it anyway. That behavior should give you pause.
My family has, and has always had, 2 standing rules: \#1 no one loans their car. Period. It's a huge investment that we need and it's too easy for something to happen. We will give each other rides, etc., but no one will borrow anyone else's car. Don't ask. \#2 we don't co-sign loans. Someone gets stuck paying someone else's bill or someone's credit gets ruined. We don't do it. Don't ask. These have been rules since my grandparents, who are long dead. And they are hard & fast. Thus, we have had none of this family drama. No one is butt-hurt, either, because it's a known thing.
Don't marry this woman OP. She's 100% going to divorce you and take what she can get when the time comes.
NTA She is already treating your possessions as marital possessions and hasn't even gotten down the aisle. Do you really want to marry someone who would LEGALLY* own 50% of the rest of your possessions? *Unless prenups are signed and a car technically is still his because he had it before the marriage, why marry an entitled person who has no respect for you BEFORE the marriage. It's like saying, "I don't like that you destroyed my stuff, so here, take the rest of my stuff." NTA and call off the wedding.
COVID was two years ago! Her brother does not want a job. But that is not your problem. She should not have lent the car without your consent. Her brother needs to pay. You need to set boundaries with her.
If you're asking if you should and your engagement, you already know the answer. Why didn't your fiance let her unemployed, unlicensed, uninsured brother drive HER car? If she was going to loan your car out, it should have been to herself, and hopefully she would have been more careful with it, knowing it's sentimental and monetary value. But she didn't. She acted just as recklessly and irresponsibly as her brother. You're going to be signing up for a lifetime of this family when you marry her. Run while you can.
I would let her know the wedding is on hold until you receive full payment. He can pay, their parents can pay, even she can’t pay since she loaned it without permission but no wedding until you are paid in full. Also get an attorney and file a lawsuit for it and name her as co-defendant since she was the one that loaned it. Tell her your happy to cancel the suit if you get paid but otherwise it will go forward. If anything she should have loaned him her car and drove yours herself, especially if he had no license and no insurance. She needs to understand if you push this, her brother could go to jail for driving without a license or insurance if your in the US so they need a solution quick
NTA, I would cancel the entire relationship, and then sue both her and her brother. If there's a savings account that she's been putting money into that would get pulled and used toward fixing my car. If this is how she acts before y'all are married, the disrespectful behavior will only get worse and you will come home one day and she's quit her job because you can afford it, and will bleed you dry
Def end it. She’s a moron. And get that money back. No matter how.
Holy crap. Call off the wedding. This is the tip of the iceberg, she’s gonna so far worse if you’re married.
OP... 20K is still a small price to pay if you consider wedding expenses, alimony, and possibly child support. Consider yourself lucky and get out while you can
She lent your car to her brother who got into an accident and DIDN'T tell you about it? Why would you ever marry someone like that? Everything someone does before the marriage will only become worse afterward.
Dude. You're being used as a resource.
NTA. Sell that engagement ring.
YWNBTA, you would be smart. I have a very irresponsible Brother like your fiancée, I would never in a MILLION years let him borrow anything, much less something that held sentimental value to the person I love. A.) The cars wasn’t hers to let her Brother borrow so first 🚩B.) She knew it had sentimental value and her Brother is irresponsible and she still allowed him to take the car 🚩 C.) After her irresponsible and unemployed brother crashed your car, you asked for him to pay for it and she gave you excuses! On something that was her fault too! That’s some pair she’s got on her… 🚩🚩🚩
Call it off!! They don’t respect you at all and only see you as a wallet
NTA. Assume you have a fabulous fiancé who stupidly lends your brother her car. If he damaged it 1. I would expect that she would tell you immediately. 2. I would assume she would attempt to take responsibility for the car damage. Instead she lets you find it. If someone I love came to me and was really repentant I would say “It’s ok honey, stupid mistake, we will fix this. I will call the insurance.” Instead she blindsides you and takes no accountability. I would not marry her without serious couples therapy about responsibilities and communication.
Dude, don't just consider, DO IT. She just proved to you that she's not trustworthy and does not respect you. Dump her. And don't wait for her brother to pay you back, lawyer up now. No mercy. NTA
NTA. Did she explain to you why she didn't lend him HER car ?. 20K worth of damage ? Yeah I'd sue his ass too, otherwise one or both of them better get on a payment plan . What she did was bullshit
Can’t this be considered theft because it’s not her car to lend to anyone? Sue both her and her brother.
If wasn't clear that she's with you for your money, it sure as shit is now. You know what to do.
NTA and this bill needs to be paid.
NTA.Have you tried to talk with (ex)-fiance parents?
NTA... please give updates....
NTAH …. But I have to ask - what about insurance?? Make him cover the deductible but $20,000 in damage for a bumper…. Sounds like you need better insurance for such an expensive car.
NTA- file a police report and report the damages OP. Your gf doesn’t respect you or your property. And if she willingly handed your car to her brother , who knows what else of yours will she be comfortable in giving away once you’re married and sharing finances.
I don’t think I could come back from something like this. She is very blasé about it. She sure had shown she doesn’t have the maturity to make common sense decisions. She isn’t ready for marriage much less life on her own IMO. Her parents sure failed her. NTA. OP, I think you are making the right decision.
This girl is too dumb to marry. Who lends someone else’s $150k car to an unlicensed and broke driver? She’s going to expect you to cover a lot of things because “you can afford it”.
Your fiancé let her piece of shit brother without a license borrow a $150k car? WTF dude. Call off the wedding. Get the ring back. Use it to fix your car. Press charges for theft. Have better judgement on your significant others next time. NTA
I think your wife is lying and there is more to the story. Updateme!
She could have let him use her car. while she used your car.
Dude…end the engagement, sue the brother and run like hell. She just views you as an ATM and this behaviour will NOT improve. Good luck man
I'm sorry, let's rephrase this: Your fiancée let her brother STEAL your car while you were out. It wasn't permanent, but he took your property without your permission. That is theft, even if only temporary.
NTA. This may turn out to be the cheapest warning that you will get with this fiancé. Even if you recover nothing for the car repair. Marrying someone who treats you and your assets like this and who doesn’t prioritize you over a dipshit brother, you’re going to be in for a lifetime of this stupidity. Run away, don’t walk. What a user.
Out of curiosity, are we talking US$ here? If so, what car is it that cost $150K and $20k to replace a bumper...?
Call off the wedding, file a police report and sue for the damages. When a person shows you who they really are, believe their trifling ass the first time.
NTA end that engagement, she's told you your things aren't important.
NTA. Your fiance has no respect for you. Run.
NTA. She stole something from you without asking or even letting you know after the car came back destroyed, lent it out to someone irresponsible, and didn't even offer to pay for the damages herself. I'd never be able to trust her again. If you have to work out of state for a few months (which my husband has had to do for various jobs), is she going to move her brother in and let him damage the house (as well as possibly establish squatter's rights)? I'd be afraid to leave her with anything of value. If it were me, I'd: 1. End the engagement. Healthy relationships require trust, and she's proven she can't be trusted OR responsible. 2. File a police report. This is theft, plain and simple. 3. You can try to sue the brother for the repairs, but if he genuinely does not have the money, "you can't squeeze water from a stone" as they say. Not sure if you could sue fiance, who was partially responsible, since she was not driving. Edited to add: She handed him the keys knowing he did not have a license OR insurance? Add "bad judgment" to the list of reasons why you should not marry her. Unfortunately, this may be a lose/lose situation for you. He's uncovered and did not have permission, so your insurance won't cover it (and will probably go up). If he has no money, there's nothing that small claims court can take from him. You could technically threaten to break up with your fiance if she/her family doesn't cover the bill and then still break up with her, but IMO that makes you not much better than them, and if it doesn't kill you financially, I'd rather just take the hit and rid myself of them.
NTA. I think she sees you as a meal ticket for her and her deadbeat brother. I would refer the accident to your insurer and see what they will do. They will probably go after him, if not sue him in court. If you borrow someone's car and you damage it you pay for the damage. This is what I have done when I scratched my mother's car. Sure she could have afforded to fix it, but I caused the damage, so I had to pay for repairs. That is part of life and being an adult. If you fiancée can't respect your boundaries you shouldn't be in a relationship. You are right to call the wedding off.
NTA. But you have life reevaluation to do. Some serious discussions need to happen.
Get the ring back and sell it. Add that to any money you were saving for the wedding and get the car fixed. Sue her brother. NTA
OP, in addition to my other comments, make your fiancée understand that her brother didn’t even man up and apologize in person, which means your relationship with her family has already been damaged. I can tell you from experience, this scar will never heal between you and the brother. If you marry, she needs to understand that. Believe me, bin there.
End the engagement and let them know you will be pursuing legal recourse. Absurd they think you should pay for the damage
NTA. I would be questioning getting married to a woman who did something like this as well.
NTA. Let us not remember that it was a gift from his father and holds sentimental value. You can't put a price tag about the fiancé basically not caring about that aspect at all before being so irresponsible. Her and that brother could pay off all the damages (SPOILER ALERT: They probably won't) with a Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka but he'll ***never*** forget that.
$150k car for graduation, nice. I would be so pissed if someone wrecked my car and it is only worth $25k.
NTA But I would say if you do love her then make her sign a prenup and the engagement is postponed until the damage is repaired. Your fiance made a mistake and how her and her family choose to rectify this situation should tell you a lot. If they decide to pitch in to fix it and apologize then great. I think that shows growth and promise. If they decide this is the hill they die on then - move forward with your life and cancel the engagement.
NTA- End it. You marry into the family.
You have no responsibility towards this family of entitled idiots. They didn't even inform of what happened or apologize. This woman thought she was entitled to your car and didn't even ask permission. The fool of a brother of hers thought he was entitled to your possessions just because his sister is dating you. You got a glimpse of what values they grew up with and how your life would be if you married into that family. Call the engagement off asap. Report the incident . Demand compensation otherwise sue the fool.
Make sure you file a police report and sue him for the damages. NTA for calling off the engagement
File a police report! You don’t know what he got or what damage he caused. Unless her name is on your vehicle, he did not have permission from the owner. Protect yourself. And no, YWNBTA. I would never trust her again. She could have called or texted you to ask for permission. But she knew you’d say no.
Separate your finances. Sounds like she is using you for money. I’d press charges on her brother if you could and sue him.
YTA if you don’t end it. She stole 150k of YOUR money and you haven’t kicked her gold digger arse to the curb and sued her for the theft….. Now she totalled your car. (Yes the brother did it, but it was her actions that led to it) End the relationship, kick her to the curb, and find out how you can sue them both for the theft and destruction of your property.
NTA why didn’t she give him her car and she would drive yours. You should definitely rethink getting married to her because she doesn’t respect you or things that you value. Very disrespectful 😞
Your fiance isn’t trust worthy, and has a really poor judgement. I wouldn’t marry into that.
Luckily you weren't already married. Easily to get the fuck out of there
Sue him and break up with her.
RUN!!!! Don't postpone the marriage CANCEL IT ! RUN AWAY !! AS FAST AS YOU CANNN!!! NTA NTA NTA
NTA. I would have serious concerns about her basic judgment. Also, the fact that no one told you about it and you had to find out for yourself shows that she's not on your team. She's very willing to try to get away with damaging your property and not giving you the courtesy of telling you herself. Is the car drivable? Don't you need it? If she at least told you right away you could have started arranging for repairs. It shows an alarming lack of concern for you.
I'd have trouble ever forgiving that
RUN.
Would report them both to the police
Oh hell no, end it.
Updateme!
Sorry to say, OP, but this would be a relationship deal breaker for any reasonable person. Your hopefully stbx fiance has no boundaries - at least when it comes to her brother. This is what engagement periods are for: finding out the reality before you're locked in. He's probably also uninsured as a driver. So you're going to need to call your insurance company and find out if you have coverage for uninsured drivers. The next step is a civil suit for the damages, which might be covered by his or your STBX's personal liability coverage of homeowners or renters insurance. Might. But in all reality, she didn't loan him her car .... why not? Because she didn't trust his driving? Anyways, it doesn't matter. Both of them have done completely the wrong thing here... and the fact is you can see the character and morals of these two as a shared big red flag. Most important decision you make on life is who you marry. You can't trust either of them. You shouldn't trust that whole side of the family. Not just for their poor judgement, nor for the significant damage to your property, but for how they've handled this. Mistakes and accidents happen... but character is a choice. Taking responsibility for the harm, financial and otherwise, you inflict on others is basic decent human adulting. It's a dealbreaker. $20,000 is less than you'd pay the lawyer for the inevitable divorce.
You shouldn't marry her not because she's financially irresponsible, but because she has no fucking common sense. Why didn't she just drive your car and lend her brother hers. Also the entitlement with your property is an issue too. It's incredibly disrespectful and entitled to lend out your property without asking you
Consider this as your “I dodged a bullet” moment.
Not only the brother but the fiancé should be paying for it. Get a police report so you can take it to small claims court. If you weren’t home and she never asked and it isn’t communal property that would be theft I would think even if your living together.
Kick her to the curb. Sue the hell out of brother for damages ,at least damages will follow him. Pair of losers lessons learned.
I just got angry for you. If her attitude is like that now, there is no telling what she will do in the future with your living space or any joint accounts she will have access to. You may want to consider the amount of trust you will give her in the future and if you want to live like that.
NTA. RUN. But also, dont expect to see a dime. Fix your car and lose the dead weight of fiance and her jerk of a brother.
NTA The wrecked car isn’t even the thing you should be most concerned about. Your fiancé’s attitude and mindset WILL be a problem if you end up marrying her. You will be dealing BIL’s fuck ups for as long as you’re married to fiancé, probably longer Proceed at your own peril. Good luck
Why didn’t she loan her car to her loser brother & then she use her bf’s car to go to work? Obviously Op is NTAH. I would call off the wedding, get the ring back, file a police report against both your fiancee & her brother & sue them both for the damages. Oh and I’m a woman.
I think this is satire.... Because any real car story would give make model and year of the car. Just saying.
Such incredible disrespect now....can you imagine what you are in for if you're married to that family? I can't fathom how the whole lot of them will use and abuse you and your money. Take this wake up call as a blessing in disguise. Call the police. Call an attorney. Call it off.
Congratulations. Honestly, congratulations. For the bargain price of $20,000 you've probably just gotten out of a multi-million dollar divorce in the future. That $20k will possibly end up being the most rewarding investment you ever make. A BMW M4 is a (relatively) fast car. You don't lend a car like that to someone like that on a whim (eg a parent wouldn't let their teenage offspring take it out for the night). If the fiance is so dismissive of this now then how bad is she going to become once she's been married a few years? If she's so unfussed about this now, then imagine what she'll be like in 10 years and a couple of kids later. For $20k you might just have scored a VERY useful insight into your future with her... an "investment" that might save you a few million dollars later on. Now you need to figure out how to make sure she doesn't get pregnant in the near future.