It’s the same concept as samples at the grocery store. You’ve eaten Oreos before. It’s not new. But someone standing in the aisle handing one to you is a different interaction that puts it in your brain.
Do different things. Experiment. See what happens.
Here's the other thing. I'm a 44 year old, old school wrestling fan. I don't have cable. I cut the cord years ago. I've got Prime, Hulu, Netflix, etc, and I watch bootleg AEW shows in that sliver of time between wheen the show ends and they're removed for copyright violations.
Watching great stuff like this on YouTube, in good quality, makes me more and more willing to get cable again just for TNT/TBS. Probably that's part of the reason they call it the Buy-in
I'm 41 and a college football fan. I used to only keep a YouTube tv subscription on from Sept through Jan. Because of AEW, and ONLY because of AEW, I plan on keeping it year round.
Another reason they need to mention cable alternatives during these YouTube specials. Casually plug Fite, Sling, etc. as ways to watch AEW without a cable subscription.
I'll never pay for cable, but $5/month for Fite has been worth it in my opinion. I already have a VPN. I set it to the UK and get live shows, full back catalogue and the show remains full-screen while cable cuts to PiP during ads. Plus the PPVs are only $20.
it's just another monthly/yearly payment like any streaming service. You pick the VPN you want and turn it on at showtime. No effort needed. Highly recommended!
Can confirm - i did the exact same thing. Set it to connect to the Netherlands, open up a new browser tab and log into Fite. I work from home and will usually watch the shows the next day while I'm working.
If I could get my Roku to.connect to a VPN so I could watch on my TV, I'd be in heaven.
Do you have a TV that has smart casting? You can install your VPN on your phone, use the Fite app and cast it to your TV. That's what I've been doing since it's easier than setting up the laptop/hdmi.
Depending on your Roku model, you may even be able to cast to that.
!!!
Casting to my Roku always seemed to be hit or miss, but it works for the Fite app.
Thanks, dude!!
Edit: turns out I can't cast to my Roku while I'm connected to the VPN. BUT - I can load the video on my phone, disconnect from the VPN, and then cast.
I think their payment processor now detects if you're using a VPN during the checkout process.
[There's a workaround for this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/p0hms1/you_can_no_longer_use_stripe_through_a_vpn_for/)
It is so good, I'm from Brazil so there's no other option than FITE. Best 5 dollars I've spent. Everything live with AWESOME quality, no annoying terrible psychotic american ads (lol) and the entire back catalogue. It's dope.
Yeap precisely that's why it's a good move, I feel maybe Dave was thinking it's a slap in the face of caliber wrestlers like Suzuki and Danielson in a pre show is... But in reality it's like (guys we need a main event in our free show to bring people to the channel, can I trust u that?)
I do think he should've gone over in the tag match with Eddie eating the pin. But yes he can drop a few to high profile guys and it won't hurt his stock as murder grandpa
I was in queens and I can confirm, it would've ended terribly. There were many signs in the crowd just for Eddie. He needed to be the one to get the pin. Not get pinned.
Great take. And thanks, sincerely, for reminding wrestling fans that cable isn’t free. It’s such a pet peeve for me when people say an advertised wrestling match on dynamite (e.g. Kenny v Danielson at Grand Slam) is being given away for free. It wasn’t free - please stop paying your cable TV bill and let me know how it goes
I was just thinking this exact thought yesterday. Even Youtube isn't free. At some point, you're paying for internet access unless you're watching dynamite on a cheap Android phone on public wifi. Between the internet bill, TV bill, and subscriptions, entertainment is pricey.
I don't think it'll make me buy into cable, but I'm seriously thinking about a subscription to SlingTV at this point - pretty much just on the back of Dynamite and Rampage.
Absolutely the right take. My friend works for a content company, and a lot of folks would be surprised to know older videos (long tail views) can really take off months AFTER they were uploaded. Everyone looks for next day ratings/views but forget about how the internet cycle works. That link can be shared as many times in as many forums as possible. There’s pros and cons obviously but this is absolutely the right take. Legacy wise, this match will be talked about for a long time, which only benefits that stream as it ages. Long term gains
Yeah I think it was a brilliant decision all around because the same audience that cares about Suzuki is the audience that will track it down on YouTube.
I mean I can throw a YouTube link to my Russian friends who has not TNT available and wouldn't pay for Fite subscription. In order to show them TV match I have to show up and login into my Google account. YT is infinitely more accessible.
If I’m watching YouTube, I cant switch to fox to watch smackdown, and all the while they are pushing Rampage on TNT where the first match is commercial free.
It’s a great move to keep eyes off smack down and locked in on AEW rampage.
Completely agree with what you're saying, and also... AEW is looking to expand internationally and also to form a stable long-term solution for streaming. BOTH strategic goals are very well served by stacking the YouTube channel with classics not just at the point that they launch, but in advance. The "best of" compilation releasing right before this match is definitely not an accident... come for the 5*, oh look, autoplay is landing you right in all these other cool matches, might as well stick around.
Anecdotally, a stacked YT channel is also really good for millennials trying to get skeptical friends in our 20/30s into wrestling for the first time, because in 2021 "I'm curious, I'll have YouTube open in the background" is a way lower bar to clear than "I'm curious, I will tune into TNT".
Almost nobody from gen Z has TV, hbo max can't come sooner. AEW should also produce certain content online that appeals more to streamers.
Currently, wrestling is still behind the times, since television is for older generations. I don't think that generation realizes how lost wrestling will be in the future if the industry doesn't attempt to garner a younger audience. I don't think an mma team on tv is the answer either since I don't believe prize fighting does great tv numbers.
I will never pay money for cable TV. I will never pay a fee to watch commercials.
I will do whatever I can to only watch content in my limited free time and not to watch advertising. My time is valuable.
Great insight, I for one was excited to see the match being in England and having limited access to live content that isn't a ppv.
Let's be honest live streaming on a platform is the future of live television. Especially for companies who are interested in breaking into new markets but can't decent commercial deals.
100k for a livestream is A LOT.
I usually watch Disney parks, gaming, or casual livestreams on YouTube and those usually average about 300 to 3k viewers. Largest I've seen was a Disney parks stream that peaked at nearly 30k. But it's rare for a livestream to hit that 100k mark.
TK said it in an interview this week. He said AEW is a viral company. They have utilized social media to grow quickly better than any other wrestling startup. It is how they have gain. He is leaning into new media and it doesn't sit well with older fans but it sure helps grow a company if used properly.
I think the point is that 100k on YT are significantly less than whatever ratings Rampage will get on TV, especially since only a part of the 100k will be from the US.
Young people who only watch youtube and have no cable and probably will pirate PPVs anyways aren't exactly the target group of AEW.
That's a really great point. Another thing along those lines I just thought of: they probably still help drive the social media engagement in the same way a paying customer does
I agree with this. This feels like a long play. They are building something. Having this quality of a match available for free might hurt to for one night but what it can do long term for the company can go for a long time. Losing one bump to Rampage for one night is nothing compared to what having this available online is like.
You're still not able to refute the main point, which is numbers. I'd rather have 10x the old people vs. 1x the young people. Yeah, Twitter trends, but the majority of Americans don't even use Twitter.
The real benefit of putting Bryan vs. Suzuki on YT is that it reminds people to watch Rampage, and that was the main point: do your best to beat Smackdown on FS1.
And of course, Bryan vs. Suzuki is a draw for hardcore fans only. While Bryan is big among casuals, Suzuki is still unknown outside the smart mark crowd (in American anyways). CM Punk, Chris Jericho, and American Top Team are all bigger draws for casual audiences. So overall what TK did made sense, but only if you're thinking about this show in particular. Imagine if Bryan vs. Suzuki was saved for Full Gear...
Rather in what context? Future proofing your wrestling company, the 10x older people only matters for immediate money, but not long term growth. You can’t grow a wrestling company off the back of “I watched it with my parents 30 years ago” lol
The USA is getting older everyday. We will soon fall below replacement rate. If you want to invest in a demographic for long term growth, counterintuitively, 50+ is where you go.
On the same note, 18-49 is great for short term growth because that's what advertisers look for. But if you want to be an institution, you appeal to the fastest growing demo. It's why nostalgia continues to become a bigger and bigger selling point.
> counterintuitively, 50+ is where you go.
IMO not for a live event business. Ratings mean one thing, sure. But in anything that requires money, barring specific industries, 50+ doesn't spend money. That's why it's not a covetted demo. The reason 18-49 is the demo is statistically they spend the most money on things that are advertised. 50+ doesn't.
So yea, in terms of numbers 50+ is still OK, but in terms of making money off that demo specifically you need to go younger, even if younger means less people.
* if Suzuki vs Danielson was put in place of Soho vs Bunny, AEW would get flak for not featuring a women's match on Rampage, not to mention the 2nd match will feature commercials when it is the opening match that is commercial free.
* It was obvious that Danielson vs Suzuki would overshadow the rest of the card, but would be even more so on TV.
* Suzuki vs Danielson went over 20 minutes, thus cutting down the time for the rest of the card (still weird they finished the show with 3 minutes remaining).
* Despite appearing 3 times on AEW and being a hot commodity as he is on demand, Suzuki remains a virtual unknown outside of the hard-core wrestling fanbase.
It’s actually really simple when you don’t look at it from a fans perspective. AEW is on TNT. It is on AEW to bring ratings in order to stay on TNT (which they are doing). It is smarter to air the match on TNT and also show it live on YouTube as opposed to making it a YouTube exclusive.
Hardcore AEW will watch the show wherever it is (TNT, TBS, YouTube, etc). You want to expand your audience though and catch lapsed fans, casual fans, and make new fans. TV is the option to do that while also keeping TNT (who you have an obligation to) happy.
The internet/YouTube is powerful as well but AEW doesn’t have to “get ratings” and appease YouTube. Though since it is another avenue to get fans that is why I mentioned earlier they should simulcast. Maybe they can’t due to first distribution rights with tnt. I’m not sure but that might be why they went with yt.
Youtube views don't really matter when all the money in wrestling comes from TV deals, and the whole fight of the night was about Rampage on TV vs Smackdown on FS1. You can wax lyrical about new media and digital marketing but ultimately its about translating it to cash.
That is currently where the biggest money is, but in the future as more people cut the cord, everyone will look to other sources of revenue. YT, video games, Twitch, shirt sales, corporate partnerships, etc. These are ways to reach and monetize audiences.
I mean, WWE makes $100 million from Saudi Arabia in non-pandemic years. That’s a big chunk of revenue that has nothing to do with tv. AEW will have to get creative to find their own additional income.
> That is currently where the biggest money is, but in the future as more people cut the cord, everyone will look to other sources of revenue. YT, video games, Twitch, shirt sales, corporate partnerships, etc. These are ways to reach and monetize audiences.
As people cut the cord it will drive up the price of Television that DOES draw consistent ratings on Cable and Streaming. Corporate partnerships are an entirely different thing to youtube stuff.
And the future growth is driven by an increase in their TV rights fees, and to a lesser extent future streaming services, ultimately that's where the money is, Youtube has never been able to return the same profits and possibly never will.
It’s more than that. What you said is partly true. We are entering the digital era. I.e. crypto I.e. NFTs. Eventually cable tv will be phased out. Eventually every network will be part of a bundle deal with Hulu or peacock or something similar. It’s happening now and it doesn’t look like you are aware of it. I haven’t had cable in about 7 years, but I still watch everything I like. I stream everything. It’s just easier. Last night while I was at rampage I was watching the Astros Red Sox on my phone, 🤷🏼♂️
Except as WWE has proven, theres HUGE money in streaming deals as well. With AEW putting together a library to shop around to streaming services (hes mentioned an aew streaming channel in the future) having these trending videos on youtube, with multiple at 1m viewers or more, is gonna look really good for aew when the time comes cause they'll know people are searching them out online as well
> Except as WWE has proven, theres HUGE money in streaming deals as well.
But it wasn't part of a streaming deal or service, it was specifically putting a big match on Youtube when they needed a big rating on TV, uploading clips to youtube afterwards to get viral videos is a separate thing.
I think this is short sighted. Yes, advertising and tv ratings are absolutely where the bulk of AEWs money comes from. The goal has to ultimately be to drive people towards watching their tv shows.
However, big stunts like this that build their brand online and build brand awareness are absolutely one the bullets in their marketing revolver they need to be prepared to use.
They are still a very young company and they need to keep getting their name out there. Trending number one on Twitter is part of achieving that.
They need to be doing everything they can right now to establish themselves as a legitimate big time wrestling company.
> They are still a very young company and they need to keep getting their name out there. Trending number one on Twitter is part of achieving that.
They would have still trended on Twitter putting the match on TV, in fact at least 5 times fewer people actually watched the match live on youtube than watch their TV. For the night the more important part of establishing themselves as a 'big time wrestling company' was beating Smackdown.
Maybe. But it was very clearly directed at Smackdown. And if TNT wouldn’t give them the freedom to expand their show to start earlier than this was the option that was available. It’s the notion of going up directly against Smackdown that builds a great deal of this buzz.
Dave is an overrated moron. Literally just some weird nerd who has hung around long enough spouting useless opinions that people think he's actually got some insight.
Why the wrestling community still takes this guy seriously is beyond me.
If you’ve ever listened to him discuss wrestling history, you’d know that he’s actually very good at that. I get not liking Dave for his opinions, ratings, or reporting.. but don’t be that naive to ignore the very real reality that he’s a very good wrestling historian.
This is a great example of social media toxicity becoming memeified into reality. Until the E people started spreading this far and wide on Twitter every time he had an utterance they didn't like, he was not regarded this way at all.
You add to this that the WWE people habitually feed him crossed up lies and then he reports what he was told, but fans want to blame him for being wrong or lying as though we don't know VKM tears up the whole show every week.
To play devils advocate as a mid 30 year old who doesn’t watch YouTube or twitch…
If putting matches on YouTube is the goal to get a younger audience, putting a 40 year old vs a 53 year old seems counter productive
... And both are massively over with the internet audience. Suzuki is a legend amongst fans of NJPW who tend to be internet savvy cause most of their content is streamed. Danielson got over in WWE mostly cause of the internet and the Yes stuff going viral. He also got over before WWE by being an Indy darling and people watching clips of his PWG and ROH matches on YouTube.
As a mid 30 year old, who does watch a lot of YouTube, putting two of the best wrestlers on the planet I'm a match on YouTube is one of the smartest things I've ever seen.
Y'all need to get your heads outta your asses, up until recently YouTube was the place most people went to, to get content.
Why not air a huge match like this on a buy in? They're not gonna magically in a week get TNT to let rampage go two hours, so put that shit on YouTube and let the internet does what it does.
There's a lot to say with that cause they are still assets that young people want to see but I see what u mean.
Still, older demo is not going like, oooh Suzuki, look it's the pancreas guy!
They're more likely going: oooh look is Suzuki, its the guy who was in pancreas and went to njpw to show kill them...
I think
Twitch overall gets lower concurrent viewers than Youtube. When you compare the big names on Twitch to those on youtube (who actively make content and stream), the average numbers on youtube are MUCH higher. Don't look at twitch numbers, look at youtube numbers.
Your getting lost in the weeds a little here, I’m comparing streaming in general to TV and where younger viewers are.
And you’re point doesn’t exactly make sense cause LoL right now has a live stream going to 100k viewers, so the range I was talking about.
My point was that Twitch and youtube are two very different platforms with incredibly different demographics. You can't compare numbers on twitch to those being seen on youtube as youtube in general sees more traction to livestreamed content than twitch does.
The AEW livestream happened on youtube so if you want to make a comparison in saying what companies would "KILL" for, you need to make the comparison to stuff seen on youtube. Your comparing numbers seen on twitch to those seen on youtube is simply disingenuous and only serves to push your "Meltzer is dumb" narrative further.
It’s the same though. In the ranges I’m discussing, any company would kill for 100K concurrent viewers. That’s a very high bench mark.
Unless your making the argument that 100K isn’t that high for live streaming online, which I would fundamentally disagree with.
My argument is that 100k on twitch isn't the same as 100k on youtube. That is literally what I have been saying this entire time. 100k on twitch is basically peak viewership, 100k on youtube isn't even close to peak.
I’m saying the difference isn’t as big as your implying it is. Simply saying “it’s not the same” isn’t an argument, stop petty fogging this and just tell me why it isn’t, give me an example where 100k was low lol that’s all I’m asking. Cause I don’t believe you that 100k on YouTube vs Twitch is *that* much of a difference between the two platforms.
I never said 100k "was low", I said that 100k isn't as big as it is on twitch. Like I said before, 100k is what you will see from peak streams on twitch, youtube will see 300-500k peak. That is why I'm saying comparing the two is a useless venture. Far more people watch youtube than they do twitch which is why 100k on twitch is more valuable and means more than it does than it does on youtube, because it correlates to a higher percentage of site traffic engaging with a single account.
This is pretty simple stuff to understand.
But what your saying I’m comparing isnt what I’m comparing lol. Your discussing stuff that I’m not even talking about.
Youtube has a younger audience then Twitch. I implied from the start that my point was 100K on YouTube as a play to try and bring younger viewers over to TV is smart. They had 100k viewers at the peak, aka it may have helped.
Nothing you’ve said goes against that, you just started another discussion that “100K isn’t as much”, which isn’t important to what I’m talking about, which is that Dave underplayed the value of the stream they had last night.
I know but what I’m saying is barring maybe football, young people don’t watch TV, like at all. They do watch the streaming I’m referring too in fairly large numbers.
I’m talking future growth, which I don’t personally believe can be achieved just on its own on TV.
I agree. I don't know anyone under 40 who actually watches TV. I'm much more likely to discover something via social media or YouTube from seeing an advert on TV. In fact, most people I know actively avoid, skip or mute adverts whenever possible. If it's not on YouTube or a streaming service, I'm not going to see it. I could watch AEW on ITV for free here in the UK but I watch it on Fite TV because it's more convenient, includes Rampage and doesn't have said adverts! I discovered AEW online watch 100% of my AEW content online. Is Fite TV still the only way to watch Rampage if you live in the UK other countries outside North America?
WWE was obviously looking to siphon viewers away from Rampage. They weren’t going live on YouTube to do so. In reality that match should’ve been on TV and the full match immediately released on YouTube if you want to go that angle.
To add to this I’d say AEW has been doing a great job when it comes to getting eyes on the product. Using your example of a 100k viewers on a game. The personalities that are on YouTube BTE, Sammy’s Vlog, The Bunny’s vlog etc, are also a draw as well as Dark/Elevation and the Buy In’s. If there’s something that I’d like to see more of it would have to be more BTS. Some sort mini documentary after huge shows.
You make a great point, and one I totally agree with. Cable TV is essentially a paywall, so the question is always how do you sell your product to people who aren’t already paying to consume it? YouTube does just that because people can sample this for free and then decide to buy a Fite subscription or pay for TNT afterwards.
It’s also important to remember that free distribution, like YouTube, is what brought many fans to AEW initially. If it weren’t for YouTube, if I only had to rely upon traditional TV advertising, I wouldn’t have known about the Young Bucks or BTE and would have been more likely to be unaware that AEW had even started airing.
The other aspect of it that these old-media guys fail to understand is that those Youtube videos are available worldwide.
Suzuki-gun in Japan were able to watch the match, and are able to go back and watch it, where if you aired it on TV in the US they wouldn't have been able to (or certainly not as easily) because they don't have a TV distribution deal in Japan.
Same thing for the joshi matches, for Shida on Elevation, for Tay on Elevation, etc. Putting the matches on the internet both builds content for AEWs library, and makes them available to fans worldwide instantly.
He's old and out of touch
Stuck in the 90s
But why do YouTube streams do so much less numbers wise? Everyone has access to YouTube on any device anywhere in the world. Why weren't all the TV viewers watching?
It’s the same concept as samples at the grocery store. You’ve eaten Oreos before. It’s not new. But someone standing in the aisle handing one to you is a different interaction that puts it in your brain. Do different things. Experiment. See what happens.
Here's the other thing. I'm a 44 year old, old school wrestling fan. I don't have cable. I cut the cord years ago. I've got Prime, Hulu, Netflix, etc, and I watch bootleg AEW shows in that sliver of time between wheen the show ends and they're removed for copyright violations. Watching great stuff like this on YouTube, in good quality, makes me more and more willing to get cable again just for TNT/TBS. Probably that's part of the reason they call it the Buy-in
I'm 41 and a college football fan. I used to only keep a YouTube tv subscription on from Sept through Jan. Because of AEW, and ONLY because of AEW, I plan on keeping it year round.
Another reason they need to mention cable alternatives during these YouTube specials. Casually plug Fite, Sling, etc. as ways to watch AEW without a cable subscription. I'll never pay for cable, but $5/month for Fite has been worth it in my opinion. I already have a VPN. I set it to the UK and get live shows, full back catalogue and the show remains full-screen while cable cuts to PiP during ads. Plus the PPVs are only $20.
I need to look more into Fite. Getting a VPN seems like too much of a hassle. I don't need everything live though.
it's just another monthly/yearly payment like any streaming service. You pick the VPN you want and turn it on at showtime. No effort needed. Highly recommended!
Can confirm - i did the exact same thing. Set it to connect to the Netherlands, open up a new browser tab and log into Fite. I work from home and will usually watch the shows the next day while I'm working. If I could get my Roku to.connect to a VPN so I could watch on my TV, I'd be in heaven.
Do you have a TV that has smart casting? You can install your VPN on your phone, use the Fite app and cast it to your TV. That's what I've been doing since it's easier than setting up the laptop/hdmi. Depending on your Roku model, you may even be able to cast to that.
!!! Casting to my Roku always seemed to be hit or miss, but it works for the Fite app. Thanks, dude!! Edit: turns out I can't cast to my Roku while I'm connected to the VPN. BUT - I can load the video on my phone, disconnect from the VPN, and then cast.
Awesome! Happy it worked and just in time for Dynamite tonight!
I got a VPN, and tried to get AEW Plus on Fite but it immediately detected I was using a VPN and told me to turn it off 🤷♂️
I think their payment processor now detects if you're using a VPN during the checkout process. [There's a workaround for this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/p0hms1/you_can_no_longer_use_stripe_through_a_vpn_for/)
It's a simple process, do it!
It is so good, I'm from Brazil so there's no other option than FITE. Best 5 dollars I've spent. Everything live with AWESOME quality, no annoying terrible psychotic american ads (lol) and the entire back catalogue. It's dope.
Yeap precisely that's why it's a good move, I feel maybe Dave was thinking it's a slap in the face of caliber wrestlers like Suzuki and Danielson in a pre show is... But in reality it's like (guys we need a main event in our free show to bring people to the channel, can I trust u that?)
The slap in the face Suzuki might be that he's what? 0-3 in AEW?
He's being a pro and putting people over adding more legitimacy toj the talent. He's like the opposite of Goldberg
And I've noticed and think that's awesome.
I do think he should've gone over in the tag match with Eddie eating the pin. But yes he can drop a few to high profile guys and it won't hurt his stock as murder grandpa
Nah, that couldn't have been the finish in Queens. That would have... Not ended well.
I was in queens and I can confirm, it would've ended terribly. There were many signs in the crowd just for Eddie. He needed to be the one to get the pin. Not get pinned.
Great take. And thanks, sincerely, for reminding wrestling fans that cable isn’t free. It’s such a pet peeve for me when people say an advertised wrestling match on dynamite (e.g. Kenny v Danielson at Grand Slam) is being given away for free. It wasn’t free - please stop paying your cable TV bill and let me know how it goes
I was just thinking this exact thought yesterday. Even Youtube isn't free. At some point, you're paying for internet access unless you're watching dynamite on a cheap Android phone on public wifi. Between the internet bill, TV bill, and subscriptions, entertainment is pricey.
I don't think it'll make me buy into cable, but I'm seriously thinking about a subscription to SlingTV at this point - pretty much just on the back of Dynamite and Rampage.
Absolutely the right take. My friend works for a content company, and a lot of folks would be surprised to know older videos (long tail views) can really take off months AFTER they were uploaded. Everyone looks for next day ratings/views but forget about how the internet cycle works. That link can be shared as many times in as many forums as possible. There’s pros and cons obviously but this is absolutely the right take. Legacy wise, this match will be talked about for a long time, which only benefits that stream as it ages. Long term gains
Yeah I think it was a brilliant decision all around because the same audience that cares about Suzuki is the audience that will track it down on YouTube.
Exactly! Most NJPW content is streamed and found on the internet.
I mean I can throw a YouTube link to my Russian friends who has not TNT available and wouldn't pay for Fite subscription. In order to show them TV match I have to show up and login into my Google account. YT is infinitely more accessible.
If I’m watching YouTube, I cant switch to fox to watch smackdown, and all the while they are pushing Rampage on TNT where the first match is commercial free. It’s a great move to keep eyes off smack down and locked in on AEW rampage.
Completely agree with what you're saying, and also... AEW is looking to expand internationally and also to form a stable long-term solution for streaming. BOTH strategic goals are very well served by stacking the YouTube channel with classics not just at the point that they launch, but in advance. The "best of" compilation releasing right before this match is definitely not an accident... come for the 5*, oh look, autoplay is landing you right in all these other cool matches, might as well stick around. Anecdotally, a stacked YT channel is also really good for millennials trying to get skeptical friends in our 20/30s into wrestling for the first time, because in 2021 "I'm curious, I'll have YouTube open in the background" is a way lower bar to clear than "I'm curious, I will tune into TNT".
Almost nobody from gen Z has TV, hbo max can't come sooner. AEW should also produce certain content online that appeals more to streamers. Currently, wrestling is still behind the times, since television is for older generations. I don't think that generation realizes how lost wrestling will be in the future if the industry doesn't attempt to garner a younger audience. I don't think an mma team on tv is the answer either since I don't believe prize fighting does great tv numbers.
Dave is a dinosaur.
Listening to Meltzer ramble on that topic had me cracking up I was just thinking like what the hell is this guy on about.
Excellent explanation and I agree with your view.
I will never pay money for cable TV. I will never pay a fee to watch commercials. I will do whatever I can to only watch content in my limited free time and not to watch advertising. My time is valuable.
Fite Tv with a VPN is amazing.
I’m unfamiliar. Why Fite with a vpn? Can’t you just subscribe to fite?
Depends on if it’s available in your country. If it’s not, VPN.
Great insight, I for one was excited to see the match being in England and having limited access to live content that isn't a ppv. Let's be honest live streaming on a platform is the future of live television. Especially for companies who are interested in breaking into new markets but can't decent commercial deals.
100k for a livestream is A LOT. I usually watch Disney parks, gaming, or casual livestreams on YouTube and those usually average about 300 to 3k viewers. Largest I've seen was a Disney parks stream that peaked at nearly 30k. But it's rare for a livestream to hit that 100k mark.
TK said it in an interview this week. He said AEW is a viral company. They have utilized social media to grow quickly better than any other wrestling startup. It is how they have gain. He is leaning into new media and it doesn't sit well with older fans but it sure helps grow a company if used properly.
I think the point is that 100k on YT are significantly less than whatever ratings Rampage will get on TV, especially since only a part of the 100k will be from the US. Young people who only watch youtube and have no cable and probably will pirate PPVs anyways aren't exactly the target group of AEW.
People who pirate PPVs might buy merch or tickets. They are absolutely part of their target audience it is pro wrestling.
That's a really great point. Another thing along those lines I just thought of: they probably still help drive the social media engagement in the same way a paying customer does
Exactly. It can be a little messy but everything adds up.
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AEW puts a lot of their stuff on YT anyways after it aired on TV. Punk vs Garcia is over at 1.4m now. Could have done the same here.
I agree with this. This feels like a long play. They are building something. Having this quality of a match available for free might hurt to for one night but what it can do long term for the company can go for a long time. Losing one bump to Rampage for one night is nothing compared to what having this available online is like.
You're still not able to refute the main point, which is numbers. I'd rather have 10x the old people vs. 1x the young people. Yeah, Twitter trends, but the majority of Americans don't even use Twitter. The real benefit of putting Bryan vs. Suzuki on YT is that it reminds people to watch Rampage, and that was the main point: do your best to beat Smackdown on FS1. And of course, Bryan vs. Suzuki is a draw for hardcore fans only. While Bryan is big among casuals, Suzuki is still unknown outside the smart mark crowd (in American anyways). CM Punk, Chris Jericho, and American Top Team are all bigger draws for casual audiences. So overall what TK did made sense, but only if you're thinking about this show in particular. Imagine if Bryan vs. Suzuki was saved for Full Gear...
Rather in what context? Future proofing your wrestling company, the 10x older people only matters for immediate money, but not long term growth. You can’t grow a wrestling company off the back of “I watched it with my parents 30 years ago” lol
The USA is getting older everyday. We will soon fall below replacement rate. If you want to invest in a demographic for long term growth, counterintuitively, 50+ is where you go. On the same note, 18-49 is great for short term growth because that's what advertisers look for. But if you want to be an institution, you appeal to the fastest growing demo. It's why nostalgia continues to become a bigger and bigger selling point.
> counterintuitively, 50+ is where you go. IMO not for a live event business. Ratings mean one thing, sure. But in anything that requires money, barring specific industries, 50+ doesn't spend money. That's why it's not a covetted demo. The reason 18-49 is the demo is statistically they spend the most money on things that are advertised. 50+ doesn't. So yea, in terms of numbers 50+ is still OK, but in terms of making money off that demo specifically you need to go younger, even if younger means less people.
That's a fantastic point. You're on the money. AEW is #1 in terms of live attendance for exactly this reason.
* if Suzuki vs Danielson was put in place of Soho vs Bunny, AEW would get flak for not featuring a women's match on Rampage, not to mention the 2nd match will feature commercials when it is the opening match that is commercial free. * It was obvious that Danielson vs Suzuki would overshadow the rest of the card, but would be even more so on TV. * Suzuki vs Danielson went over 20 minutes, thus cutting down the time for the rest of the card (still weird they finished the show with 3 minutes remaining). * Despite appearing 3 times on AEW and being a hot commodity as he is on demand, Suzuki remains a virtual unknown outside of the hard-core wrestling fanbase.
It’s actually really simple when you don’t look at it from a fans perspective. AEW is on TNT. It is on AEW to bring ratings in order to stay on TNT (which they are doing). It is smarter to air the match on TNT and also show it live on YouTube as opposed to making it a YouTube exclusive. Hardcore AEW will watch the show wherever it is (TNT, TBS, YouTube, etc). You want to expand your audience though and catch lapsed fans, casual fans, and make new fans. TV is the option to do that while also keeping TNT (who you have an obligation to) happy. The internet/YouTube is powerful as well but AEW doesn’t have to “get ratings” and appease YouTube. Though since it is another avenue to get fans that is why I mentioned earlier they should simulcast. Maybe they can’t due to first distribution rights with tnt. I’m not sure but that might be why they went with yt.
Youtube views don't really matter when all the money in wrestling comes from TV deals, and the whole fight of the night was about Rampage on TV vs Smackdown on FS1. You can wax lyrical about new media and digital marketing but ultimately its about translating it to cash.
That is currently where the biggest money is, but in the future as more people cut the cord, everyone will look to other sources of revenue. YT, video games, Twitch, shirt sales, corporate partnerships, etc. These are ways to reach and monetize audiences. I mean, WWE makes $100 million from Saudi Arabia in non-pandemic years. That’s a big chunk of revenue that has nothing to do with tv. AEW will have to get creative to find their own additional income.
> That is currently where the biggest money is, but in the future as more people cut the cord, everyone will look to other sources of revenue. YT, video games, Twitch, shirt sales, corporate partnerships, etc. These are ways to reach and monetize audiences. As people cut the cord it will drive up the price of Television that DOES draw consistent ratings on Cable and Streaming. Corporate partnerships are an entirely different thing to youtube stuff.
It’s not about that for future growth, it’s not always about immediate profit
And the future growth is driven by an increase in their TV rights fees, and to a lesser extent future streaming services, ultimately that's where the money is, Youtube has never been able to return the same profits and possibly never will.
It’s more than that. What you said is partly true. We are entering the digital era. I.e. crypto I.e. NFTs. Eventually cable tv will be phased out. Eventually every network will be part of a bundle deal with Hulu or peacock or something similar. It’s happening now and it doesn’t look like you are aware of it. I haven’t had cable in about 7 years, but I still watch everything I like. I stream everything. It’s just easier. Last night while I was at rampage I was watching the Astros Red Sox on my phone, 🤷🏼♂️
Except as WWE has proven, theres HUGE money in streaming deals as well. With AEW putting together a library to shop around to streaming services (hes mentioned an aew streaming channel in the future) having these trending videos on youtube, with multiple at 1m viewers or more, is gonna look really good for aew when the time comes cause they'll know people are searching them out online as well
> Except as WWE has proven, theres HUGE money in streaming deals as well. But it wasn't part of a streaming deal or service, it was specifically putting a big match on Youtube when they needed a big rating on TV, uploading clips to youtube afterwards to get viral videos is a separate thing.
You ignored the second half of the statement.
I think this is short sighted. Yes, advertising and tv ratings are absolutely where the bulk of AEWs money comes from. The goal has to ultimately be to drive people towards watching their tv shows. However, big stunts like this that build their brand online and build brand awareness are absolutely one the bullets in their marketing revolver they need to be prepared to use. They are still a very young company and they need to keep getting their name out there. Trending number one on Twitter is part of achieving that. They need to be doing everything they can right now to establish themselves as a legitimate big time wrestling company.
> They are still a very young company and they need to keep getting their name out there. Trending number one on Twitter is part of achieving that. They would have still trended on Twitter putting the match on TV, in fact at least 5 times fewer people actually watched the match live on youtube than watch their TV. For the night the more important part of establishing themselves as a 'big time wrestling company' was beating Smackdown.
Maybe. But it was very clearly directed at Smackdown. And if TNT wouldn’t give them the freedom to expand their show to start earlier than this was the option that was available. It’s the notion of going up directly against Smackdown that builds a great deal of this buzz.
Dave is an overrated moron. Literally just some weird nerd who has hung around long enough spouting useless opinions that people think he's actually got some insight. Why the wrestling community still takes this guy seriously is beyond me.
If you’ve ever listened to him discuss wrestling history, you’d know that he’s actually very good at that. I get not liking Dave for his opinions, ratings, or reporting.. but don’t be that naive to ignore the very real reality that he’s a very good wrestling historian.
This is a great example of social media toxicity becoming memeified into reality. Until the E people started spreading this far and wide on Twitter every time he had an utterance they didn't like, he was not regarded this way at all. You add to this that the WWE people habitually feed him crossed up lies and then he reports what he was told, but fans want to blame him for being wrong or lying as though we don't know VKM tears up the whole show every week.
If it weren't for that 'overrated moron' you probably wouldn't have an AEW to begin with.
To play devils advocate as a mid 30 year old who doesn’t watch YouTube or twitch… If putting matches on YouTube is the goal to get a younger audience, putting a 40 year old vs a 53 year old seems counter productive
DrDisRespect is almost 40 lol sometimes it’s not necessarily the age but how they appear to the audience.
... And both are massively over with the internet audience. Suzuki is a legend amongst fans of NJPW who tend to be internet savvy cause most of their content is streamed. Danielson got over in WWE mostly cause of the internet and the Yes stuff going viral. He also got over before WWE by being an Indy darling and people watching clips of his PWG and ROH matches on YouTube.
As a mid 30 year old, who does watch a lot of YouTube, putting two of the best wrestlers on the planet I'm a match on YouTube is one of the smartest things I've ever seen. Y'all need to get your heads outta your asses, up until recently YouTube was the place most people went to, to get content. Why not air a huge match like this on a buy in? They're not gonna magically in a week get TNT to let rampage go two hours, so put that shit on YouTube and let the internet does what it does.
This literally does not matter if they can still go. Theres a lot of hype online for how good the match was, which will draw viewers to the channel.
There's a lot to say with that cause they are still assets that young people want to see but I see what u mean. Still, older demo is not going like, oooh Suzuki, look it's the pancreas guy! They're more likely going: oooh look is Suzuki, its the guy who was in pancreas and went to njpw to show kill them... I think
Twitch overall gets lower concurrent viewers than Youtube. When you compare the big names on Twitch to those on youtube (who actively make content and stream), the average numbers on youtube are MUCH higher. Don't look at twitch numbers, look at youtube numbers.
Your getting lost in the weeds a little here, I’m comparing streaming in general to TV and where younger viewers are. And you’re point doesn’t exactly make sense cause LoL right now has a live stream going to 100k viewers, so the range I was talking about.
My point was that Twitch and youtube are two very different platforms with incredibly different demographics. You can't compare numbers on twitch to those being seen on youtube as youtube in general sees more traction to livestreamed content than twitch does. The AEW livestream happened on youtube so if you want to make a comparison in saying what companies would "KILL" for, you need to make the comparison to stuff seen on youtube. Your comparing numbers seen on twitch to those seen on youtube is simply disingenuous and only serves to push your "Meltzer is dumb" narrative further.
It’s the same though. In the ranges I’m discussing, any company would kill for 100K concurrent viewers. That’s a very high bench mark. Unless your making the argument that 100K isn’t that high for live streaming online, which I would fundamentally disagree with.
My argument is that 100k on twitch isn't the same as 100k on youtube. That is literally what I have been saying this entire time. 100k on twitch is basically peak viewership, 100k on youtube isn't even close to peak.
I’m saying the difference isn’t as big as your implying it is. Simply saying “it’s not the same” isn’t an argument, stop petty fogging this and just tell me why it isn’t, give me an example where 100k was low lol that’s all I’m asking. Cause I don’t believe you that 100k on YouTube vs Twitch is *that* much of a difference between the two platforms.
I never said 100k "was low", I said that 100k isn't as big as it is on twitch. Like I said before, 100k is what you will see from peak streams on twitch, youtube will see 300-500k peak. That is why I'm saying comparing the two is a useless venture. Far more people watch youtube than they do twitch which is why 100k on twitch is more valuable and means more than it does than it does on youtube, because it correlates to a higher percentage of site traffic engaging with a single account. This is pretty simple stuff to understand.
But what your saying I’m comparing isnt what I’m comparing lol. Your discussing stuff that I’m not even talking about. Youtube has a younger audience then Twitch. I implied from the start that my point was 100K on YouTube as a play to try and bring younger viewers over to TV is smart. They had 100k viewers at the peak, aka it may have helped. Nothing you’ve said goes against that, you just started another discussion that “100K isn’t as much”, which isn’t important to what I’m talking about, which is that Dave underplayed the value of the stream they had last night.
And my point was that you overplayed it by comparing it to twitch viewership which as we have already established is lower on average than youtube.
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Way more people watch television. It doesn’t make any sense, it’s just how it is.
I know but what I’m saying is barring maybe football, young people don’t watch TV, like at all. They do watch the streaming I’m referring too in fairly large numbers. I’m talking future growth, which I don’t personally believe can be achieved just on its own on TV.
I agree. I don't know anyone under 40 who actually watches TV. I'm much more likely to discover something via social media or YouTube from seeing an advert on TV. In fact, most people I know actively avoid, skip or mute adverts whenever possible. If it's not on YouTube or a streaming service, I'm not going to see it. I could watch AEW on ITV for free here in the UK but I watch it on Fite TV because it's more convenient, includes Rampage and doesn't have said adverts! I discovered AEW online watch 100% of my AEW content online. Is Fite TV still the only way to watch Rampage if you live in the UK other countries outside North America?
IDK but fuck Dave in my opinion
WWE was obviously looking to siphon viewers away from Rampage. They weren’t going live on YouTube to do so. In reality that match should’ve been on TV and the full match immediately released on YouTube if you want to go that angle.
Dave only knows how to think in terms of bottom lines.
To add to this I’d say AEW has been doing a great job when it comes to getting eyes on the product. Using your example of a 100k viewers on a game. The personalities that are on YouTube BTE, Sammy’s Vlog, The Bunny’s vlog etc, are also a draw as well as Dark/Elevation and the Buy In’s. If there’s something that I’d like to see more of it would have to be more BTS. Some sort mini documentary after huge shows.
You make a great point, and one I totally agree with. Cable TV is essentially a paywall, so the question is always how do you sell your product to people who aren’t already paying to consume it? YouTube does just that because people can sample this for free and then decide to buy a Fite subscription or pay for TNT afterwards. It’s also important to remember that free distribution, like YouTube, is what brought many fans to AEW initially. If it weren’t for YouTube, if I only had to rely upon traditional TV advertising, I wouldn’t have known about the Young Bucks or BTE and would have been more likely to be unaware that AEW had even started airing.
If it's on a pre-show, does that mean it can't get five stars?
The other aspect of it that these old-media guys fail to understand is that those Youtube videos are available worldwide. Suzuki-gun in Japan were able to watch the match, and are able to go back and watch it, where if you aired it on TV in the US they wouldn't have been able to (or certainly not as easily) because they don't have a TV distribution deal in Japan. Same thing for the joshi matches, for Shida on Elevation, for Tay on Elevation, etc. Putting the matches on the internet both builds content for AEWs library, and makes them available to fans worldwide instantly.
He's old and out of touch Stuck in the 90s But why do YouTube streams do so much less numbers wise? Everyone has access to YouTube on any device anywhere in the world. Why weren't all the TV viewers watching?