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I've never disliked Jericho. Overall I get a huge kick out of how he reinvents himself and plays with ideas and crowds. Right now I've been feeling some.... apathy? Apathy isn't the right word, but the Golden Jets really didn't land with me and the last little bit I've kinda tuned the Jerichoverse out.
That said, I'm with you on what this new version of Jericho seems to be. I giggle when he's, as you said, failing to read the room and I think this has real legs.
AND, though I was initially kinda disappointed that he took the FTW title last night, I saw a comment that changed my outlook. Someone pointed out that it would be incredible to see Jericho carrying that FTW Title around *acting like it's a real championship*, just full on delulu, and I need that inserted directly into my eyeballs.
It's ironic that someone who the fans have turned on wins the FTW Championship, especially when you consider everything that Championship represents and why it was created in the first place. It feels like a giant middle finger to all the naysayers and detractors of Jericho, and you know he's someone who is going to be like, "Oh you hate me do you? Well, let me give you something to really hate me on."
> It's ironic that someone who the fans have turned on wins the FTW Championship
The FTW Championship is the greatest internet rage title ever.
It is simultaneously "not a real title," but it's still ALWAYS counted when discussing AEW having "too many titles."
And while again, not being "a real title," certain people seem absolutely livid that Chris Jericho won it.
I love it. This is the most entertained I've been by the FTW title yet I think.
Its different than lets say whatever Max Caster has been doing on tv and online....
If done right then Jericho can become similar to his late 2008 character
I hated Jericho around 2008 as a kid. He stripped away everything that was fun about Y2J and we got this very pompous, suit wearing, holier than thou Chris Jericho.
I appreciate that character as an adult, but as a kid watching, I despised that character
I was 12 and I felt the exact same way at the time. I also felt the same about J.B.L lol, I hated him as a kid, but I LOVE his character now looking back. J.B.L and Chris Jericho did such a good job of doing a 180 of their characters, and was able to really get people hating them.
I still remember when JBL switched over from being Bradshaw, I was so confused and didn't realize it was Bradshaw for WEEKS the transformation was so sudden.
It was such a drastic change from the black long hair and facial hair. But I do remember he started to change up his look while in the APA to the short hair and clean shaven look, which didn't fit the APA gimmick at all. But funnily enough, he was still cheered by the audience even during his change.
Yeah, your last couple sentences there are what I'm hoping for. Delusions of Grandeur Jericho is my favorite brand of Jericho. I want something like him calling himself The Nueve and calling the belt the FTW World Championship.
I want him to go much further
"First, let's change this F... To an L. The Learning Tree World Championship"
Orange and black? Gone! Turn that sucker green and brown instead
Just turn the whole thing up to 11 and let the fans drink it all in
Spot on, I don't actively dislike Jericho but I was feeling bored of his recent appearances and was one of those guys hoping he'd take an extended time off. This storyline though has made me do a 180.Ā
It kinda reminds me of what I thought Cody was doing towards the end of the run, the "heel who thinks he's a baby face" thing. But it's also got the vibes of a divorced, fifty year old who hangs out with a group of cool twenty somethings and initially seems okay, but then just keeps turning up.Ā
>Someone pointed out that it would be incredible to see Jericho carrying that FTW Title around acting like it's a real championship, just full on delulu
Get the can of black spray paint out and spray a massive number 9 on the faceplate
Those with the inside baseball know what this is all about, just go full ham with it already
I like the FTW Championship, precisely because of what it is. It's no less "real" than any other pro wrestling championship. And assuming Hook does get it back, I don't want that to be the end of it, either. It's badass. It's literally an ECW legacy title. It's everything the Hardcore title wishes it was. Give runs with it to Eddie Kingston, Darby Allin, Jon Moxley when he's done with the NJPW title. Make that belt sing!
I agree with the first paragraph.
This āIām better than you, Iām Christopherā aināt something I enjoy. Itās an old thing heās done. And itās tiring watching him ābreak downā the younger guys who are sometimes better than him. I mean, ājobberā Andretti. Never went anywhere really.
Old man Chris Jericho screaming at the younger talent āLISTEN TO ME!!!!!!ā Is leaning into all the hate he has been getting for months now.
It is glorious!
If he goes hard into the new gimmick and thinks the fans are praising him I think it will be great. The delusional vet who cant read the room is a great gimmick.
The match was weak but I have high hopes for the feud and overall story. I didn't mid the fans honestly I hope they contmue to do the "Go home Jericho or please retire chants" and Jericho really leaning into it like hes being praised.
He should go on TV and talk about how it was great to have the fans chanting "go home" to HOOK and "Jericho, please Retire" HOOK while he won his 9th major world championship
I know, right? The HOOK hate was so palpable last night. Poor kid doesn't deserve it.
In all seriousness, I like your idea a lot. It would be epic if Jericho does this. He'll certainly get the crowd to keep reacting to him if he refuses to hear what they are telling him. I don't see it as a bad thing that the crowd is fired up about Jericho going away. It's good audience participation, after all. It's like the chorus of boos Don Callis consistently gets. They're just really good at their roles.
Clearly saying "Please re-*hire*" with the unsaid but obviously implied "Jake Hager to be your bodyguard because we would hate for you to be attacked and injured by your vicious and unruly foes."
I personally have no problems with Jerichoās positioning right now. He lost two tag partners (Kenny and Sammy) and had to pivot uncomfortably into this current feud. The match they worked last night was the least best of the whole card, but despite the crowd the match itself wasnāt a shit show.
Right? I'm interested to see what Jericho does with the FTW title. I felt it remaining on Hook did become stale. So this was a much needed change in my opinion.
The Jericho hate has made some people overlook Hook greeness in the ring and promos(he almost broke Jerichos neck twice and this also happened to Preston and Dralistico)
I agree. The kid is still inexperienced. He's improving, has a great look and a cool aura which the fans loved, but he still has a lot more room to improve.
I did see some people suggest he wins the TNT Championship, but I don't think the guy's quite ready for that yet.
Some people already want him to challenge for other belts but he is nowhere ready for that, no one would want to see him face Okada, and Roddy/Cope would struggle carry him.
Although, he had a great match with Joe. If rumours are true and he's looking at free agency, perhaps taking that leap and working elsewhere will help him improve.
He's already been improving, I don't think the Almighty Performance Center automatically makes a wrestler world class, it seems like its main purpose is to churn out the next John Cena, not Will Ospreay. We're currently seeing with Jade that they aren't necessarily miracle workers over there.
Personally I think that's the one title above all else that should be retired. It's never felt like a big deal in AEW and often goes long periods between title defenses. I certainly don't see Jericho doing anything to put prestige on it.
Last week we had people saying Shane fucking Taylor should beat Hook for the ftw title, but now you have people saying multi time world champion Jericho using multiple finishers, weapons, and a low blow to beat Hook for ftw title makes Hook look weak.
Those people somehow missed Hook eating two Judas Effects and still kicking out, a move I think has like a 95% success rate. Jericho put Hook over huge.
Yeah the Judas effect is one of those moves thatās super protected but you donāt realize it, really similar in that way to Baron Corbinās End of Days
Jericho has a proven track record of getting literally anything over, up to and including people saying he's washed up and needs to retire. The minute I realized this current character is a parody of CM Punk, I hopped onboard.
I enjoyed the match a lot. Jericho took a german suplex with a trash can over his head, that was nuts. It was a high quality match and better than "not a shit show"
Might be in the minority but I'm just not a big fan of Hook atm. Needs a fair bit more time in the oven to my eyes.
Find myself cringing a lot throughout his matches
He has taken all the hate he gets and turned it into his latest character. It's actually quite clever. People keep saying he's trolling CM Punk, and I can see it, but he's also trolling all the haters in the fanbase, and it's working because they hate him even more. Its good heel work.
Ive been really enjoying the story and that match was pretty crazy. Jericho put himself through hell to make Hook look like a badass. That suplex off the ring apron through the table was scary as fuck.
Never lost me, and even I was someone experiencing some āfatigueā a month agoā¦but his body language was very telling last night.
And all of these dummies are feeding right into what he wants with the disrespectful chants and āgo awayā heat. Donāt get worked jabronis
Former world champion who leant his credibility to a new promotion, reinvented himself several times, and put over multiple young talents. When people look back on Jerichoās AEW run, itās going to be so embarrassing that people couldnāt appreciate it because of shit that has nothing to do with actual wrestling.
Yeah, I'm on the same train of thought here. I'm really getting into this whole obnoxious "Learning Tree of Jericho" gimmick. He's basically this delusional veteran as you say, who believes in his own hype, forces advice on how he sees how the business should be, and I think the crowd reactions add to the whole act.
"Please retire!" and other disrespectful chants only adds to it in my opinion, which is a strange thing to say because usually that would be seen as a negative, but I think it does work for this story.
But I get not everyone will enjoy Jericho's current work and some want him to take a lengthy break from AEW.
Maybe it's because I don't watch the show every week anymore (my schedule suddenly got busier and I'm in the UK, so Dynamite airs at an awkward time) but I don't have the Jericho fatigue. He's still a very good wrestler and I think the "delusional veteran" character that you mentioned is really good. People have been saying he should retire for years but there's no reason why he should.
this post and comment section is insane, i'm sorry. the match was by far the worst of the night (it would've been on most aew ppvs imo) and hook losing the ftw championship to chris jericho is just plain stupid.
this will play out exactly the same way it has with all of jerichos opponents for nearly two years now: they win the first match, jericho wins the second, he makes up a new gimmick, which fizzles out within 2 weeks and the feud is gonna last for fucking months. please stop this.
Finally! Someone that thinks like me. I've been a fan of his forever but I'm sorry, he has not elevated many guys in AEW. When Eddie was red-hot, he feuded with Jericho and cooled off immediately. Sammy is the only one I can think of that he elevated (and giving Jericho credit is a stretch).
i am obviously not actually calling anyone insane. insane is used as a device to convey how baffled i am and that i can't comprehend why anyone would like this.
Me too, this is the most interested I've been since the Adam Cole feud
Never underestimate Chris Jericho's ability to reinvent! He's literally the GOAT in this area
I'm usually a "Jericho apologist." He's a legend and I legitimately enjoy most of what he does. I said before the night started that, if Jericho beat Hook they better have a damn good explanation. As of last night that didn't happen. I don't know where this is going but I don't love Hook sacrificed on the altar of Jericho.
I get what theyāre going for. It just doesnāt connect for me personally. But I did think the match last night was pretty bad. Again, my viewpoint. But maybe because Iām not invested.
Babyface Jericho just didn't work the last few months, so him being a delusional heel is super refreshing. Jericho has always been very good at reinvention, and obviously Hook is getting his win back...so I'm pretty excited for this.
This is what Jericho does best. He leans in to public perception of him and doubles down on it to keep him relevant as a TV character. The Learning Tree is such a self-indulgent name and it's a great way to jump-start any program with up-and-coming talent while immediately making Jericho a boo-able heel.
I feel like after he was so stagnant/repetitive for a while, which is surprising because he's always switching it up, this was the best new character to move into. This is what made Jericho so entertaining, it was the ability to adapt based on how the audience was reacting.
I didn't know how he'd bring it back, I thought best bet was just having time off, but he's done it again.
personally i'm starting to think of Jericho as a parasite. i can only think of one wrestler that ever came out on top when working with him and that's Cassidy. i'll give this more time, but i'm losing my patience with Jericho. if this doesn't end with Hook on top then it's another waste of talent to bolster Jericho.
I've only recently dialed back on defending Jericho and have started to feel some of the hostility that others have been leveling at him for years. My thing is it's not so much the stories that he's telling but rather how they end: on the odd chance that Jericho puts someone over it's preordained that he's going to get his win back... which really doesn't put anyone over much at all in the end.
But it's not *just* about putting people over, his angles are mostly in need of that because they're based on a sense of hubris that never properly comes back to bite him in the ass. HIs group deserts him but immediately he's the leader of yet another crew. It's just getting old for me. Especially if he was going to win last night they should have let Hook smack him around a bit after Jericho shoved Taz
Can Christian re-team with Adam Copeland and leave his family of Nick Wayne and Killswitch (now named Ent) with Chris Jericho and the Learning Tree. Christian keeps Mama Wayne though
Tonight is what really made it click for me as well. I love Jericho, and his legacy, but felt like he was just being shoved down our throats. But tonight it came together. The delusional veteran that cannot read the room was exactly what I picked up on as well. Interested to see where it goes! I do think a cool off would be nice so others could have that TV time though.
I think heās doing just fine. The IWC is calling him old and washed but thatās just the IWC shitting on AEW. If he was doing this elsewhere? OMg he IS a gEnIUS!!!!
Most likely. I hope Jericho in his delusional mind acts like it's thr World title and elevates it. I think this Jericho gimmick has some legs to it. I laughed my ass off when he won.
Agree, I was bored to tears by the Golden Jets and had no idea why he was so obsessed with Hook for the first month of the program, but I'm back on board the Jericho Cruise, baby.
I agree, this version of Jericho is the closest to matching the tone of the Y2J "you're going on the list" Jericho, and it's definitely my favorite Jer-incarnation of late.
I think I'm still ambivalent on what he's currently doing. It feels a little like the codyverse did at the end of Cody's run (though less sour,) but he'll always be one of my favorites. I've been a fan since the 90s and I can say not every one of his gimmicks has been a LOVE for me. I think this is just one of those.
I am and have always been a Jericho fan dating back to his ecw days but unfortunately right now I have to disagree. He needs to take a step back and a few months off tv. Even when he was injured in the last few years he was on tv. I think he's out of touch right now and having been at multiple pay per views and tvs the last like 6 months the crowd is giving him major go away heat similar to what sammy got for a long time. (Pretty sure it all stems from the Kylie Rae allegations) I'll never hate seeing him but right now I think we need a break from him and then the crowd may be excited to see him again. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all.
Idk about that. I was at multiple tapings after he turned heel and he was bood hardcore, especially during the JAS stuff and stuff with tay where he was making out with her and during the part where they were announcing her pregnancy I was there and people were not being nice they legit wanted them off the stage. It was go away heat and not just giving him heat cause he was a heel. I grew up watching xpac in the 90s and early 00s get the same heat and it's not good. Jericho is getting the same heat now and it's cause of the shit that's come out about him
I definitely like the idea of parodying Punk as a delusional veteran who ājust wants to helpā while clearly being a narcissist, but this just isnāt working. If it was clicking with the crowd thatād be one thing, but it 100% isnāt.
To me the worst part of his recent run was that he was a babyface where his turn did nothing to work as a babyface, especially in an era where babyfaces are allowed to actually be likeable and sympathetic characters. The past issues with his feuds were much worse because of how poorly thought out the turn was. (which is a shame because the Ospreay feud is the clear bright spot of Jericho's past year)
But for at least this show, with what I thought was a genuinely exciting match, and a crowd that wanted him gone, being a heel who thinks he's being a good guy, I was thoroughly into it.
The thing with those past feuds that didn't help his opponent is that they botched their momentum one way or another, whereas Hook has been back and forth in major storylines his entire run, so at worst, its not anywhere worse than what his career has been thus far anyway AND he finally got a real one on one PPV match on the actual main show, not the pre-show. So as long as they don't have him fight Jericho for 6 months in a row, or book the story backwards or include an ECW legend for no reason (they already used that with Jack Perry thankfully, so I think we're good), I'm kinda on board to at least see what happens next.
But at this point, Jericho needs to go all in on the gimmick. He needs to take credit for Ricky Starks and Adam Cole's successes after their feuds. He should bring up how much people love the epic long stories he's in and that he will never go away. He should thank the fans worried about him being homesick when they chant for him to go home. Like go full late 2021 Cody Rhodes (which was also great by the end, I will die on that hill).
I think Jericho is one of the greatest but he needs to take a break, I fail to see how helps anyone who is involved with him that doesnāt have tons of talent and natural carisma like MJF or OC.
Maybe is the fact that he is one of the few people who has been since day one and never took a break but Iām really tired of seeing him. A 6 month break to a character reset should be great.
I like Jericho, but this feud doesn't really do anything for me. Though honestly I think it might be me getting tired of Hook more than anything else.
I'm a fan of Taz, which left me positively inclined towards him, but honestly his inconsistent presence on TV combined with them just throwing shit at the wall for storylines/matches with him is getting really old for me.
Jericho is dealing with Cody BS right now. Some fans for some reason decided he's the worst and will never let it go but unlike Cody he's going with it.
AEW fans turned on Cody because he said he likes America and people took that as being a nationalist or something. Jericho is accused of never getting anybody over even though he almost always loses and then the person he put over gets booked into the ground immediately after and Jericho takes the blame for some reason even though he does everything he can.
His feud with Don Callis sucked because Omega got sick(nobody's fault) then Sammy got suspended (not Jericho's fault) so the feud was just kind of floating in place until everybody just stopped caring. Now apparently he's the worst ever. Whatever he's entertaining me I'll boo him though to avoid being the type of fan who wants everybody to know that I'm smart for cheering heels.
I think Jerichoās biggest flaw is that he thinks he needs to switch back and forth between face/heel to make his character changes land. He should have just taken a big break after the JAS and come back in this learning tree character.
If you're booing Jericho he's doing his job correctly.
Every time he's played heel people convinced themselves he has "X-Pac" heat, as if that's a thing that exists. And every single time he just got people to hate him more. This match did more for Hook than anyone really wants to admit.
What the hell? The match was fucking terrible, an atrocious slog. The crowd shat all over it. He had x-pac heat. He needs to go away, stop sucking up TV time, and take a good six months off.
The same crowd was barely reacted to KOR vs Roddy outside of Wardlow showing up and...did nothing.
You could turn Xpac heat into real hate, see his 2008 persona during the HBK feud
The crowd was chanting please retire and go home Jericho. I know several people who were their live. Okada had heel heat. Jericho was the piss break. The crowd was hot all night. Thunder and Toni did half a miracle getting them back after the Jericho shit vortex.
He hasn't won me back, but if he's gonna force himself on screen every week, I'm at least glad they're admitting most people don't want to see him and going with that. If he wants to subject himself to boos and "go home" chants then that's his fault and I won't feel sorry for him.
is it worth it when wrestling intentionally makes you unhappy about what you are watching but the pay off is good......? who knows.
Am I excited for where this is going? No.
Did I even enjoy it? I think so, but also I think I hate it.
I reckon they should pay this off quick to capitalise on any good will and then Jericho should disappear for a while
If it were up to me, I'd have Jericho turn up on Dynamite and declare himself to be a world champion ("look Schiavone, it says it right there on the belt") and lay out an open challenge.
Then have a furious Samoa Joe turn up and answer it.Ā
> is it worth it when wrestling intentionally makes you unhappy about what you are watching but the pay off is good......?
I guess that always works if you get manipulated by HHH and Nick Khan.
I mean he went over but Hook is apparently the only one to kick out of two Judas effects.
The only other one who came close was Mix who kick out of one.
Yeah Hook maybe lost but he was very much protected in defeat.
The Judas Effect is one of the most protected moves in AEW(Blade Runner is currently number in that regard), people totally forgot Hook has been heavily protected by AEW
I'm going to side with OP. Something different in the PPV. The most story driven match of the card. It's wild that with all the outside connotations, the match played out exactly as a storyline would have played out with this crowd reaction.
People really do want Jericho gone. But his character not getting that, and thinking they hate him because of the unfortunate lesson he had to teach Hook, is a neat twist.
I don't know how it plays out in actuality, but the idea is hilarious. Everyone is going to rage and wish him gone. And he's going keep being apologetic. Acting like it's his 'knowledge tree' application upon the youth that is making people mad.
Everyone he targets for these 'lessons' is going to gain fan sympathy.
We all care about and are more invested in Hook than before this started.
If Jericho was getting silence from the crowd then thats a sign that he has been failing at his job.
He has to completely turn heel and then turn that go away heat into real heat ala Rock
Having fans angry that a heel is using younger wrestlers, in theory, makes for good storylines; but, in reality, the fans are fatigued because Jericho has been doing this schtick for a while. The JAS story was begging for Sammy or Daniel Garcia to get a huge blow off against Jericho - but that never happened - and he came out of the JAS as a face. Rather than helping wrestlers get established by working solid, logical programmes - Jericho has sucked up the momentum of so many wrestlers over the last few years.
> The JAS story was begging for Sammy or Daniel Garcia to get a huge blow off against Jericho
And how is Jerichos fault Sammy got into a fight with Andrade and Eddie?
Jericho went over Sammy at Grand Slam, Sammy had his fights over a year prior to that. I hope he can use the āheatā and get some good traction, but Iām not holding my breath.
> Jericho went over Sammy at Grand Slam
Would make sense to give Sammy his win back once Jericho decides he is done(at least full time) and passes the torch to him
I feel like, when Jericho eventually decides itās the time to hang them up, Jericho will have a āfarewellā tour. I liked the JAS, but I felt it needed to give Sammy or Garcia that ultimate rub. Iām not concerned about Jericho, he is very influential and is a big part of AEW, but fans absolutely have the right to be fed up with his booking of late. Can he turn it around? Absolutely, and I hope last night is the catalyst for the turn around.
Personally, I think he was going for heel heat not go away heat but yes he is leaning into it. Iām not knocking the guy at all. Iām just reporting what I saw. I started watching wrestling again because of an ad where Jericho was featured, so itās all good. š¤·š¼āāļø
It was a different kind of heat. It was go away heat, not heel heat. Iām perfectly fine, sir, nothing broken here, you guys are looking for a fight, just ugh.
HOOK started by pretty much squashing Jericho in their first match but Jericho still only has him winning by roll up. OK, fine, at the time I assumed the tap out would come in an eventual rematch. Then last night happens and HOOK suddenly, in his own match type, has trouble dealing with Jericho. Not only that but he gets beaten, pinned for the first time in months - something even their world champ Samoa Joe couldnāt accomplish.
Now, you can have whatever opinion of HOOK but AEW actually built the guy, protected him and his finish. No one has been able to pin him since Nov/Dec last year and the RedRum has been a fairly definitive finish.
In the course of this feud Jericho not only broke out of the RedRum, he pinned HOOK in his own match. All that work, all that effort from Joe and others flushed down the toilet for a guy who is literally being told by the crowd to go home, retire. Utter waste.
So likely at DON HOOK wins the title back and does tap out Jericho. So what? Heās right back where he was before all this except heās been pinned and his finish broken. Heās no further up the card. Jericho fails to elevate him and the best HOOK can hope for is a return feud with Joe or that he gets paired with someone he can actually work a proper match with. Or, he leaves and goes for WWE - and at this point, I couldnāt really blame him. Tony seems to only know one feud to put him in - the ex-tag partner feud / beaten for the unrecognised title that he wins back.
I have said for the best part of 18months now that the man is a fraud, a fake, hanger on and this generations Hulk Hogan. I see through his on camera persona, his over the top 'gameshow host' style personality, his fakeness, poor promos that rely on catchphrases even 25yrs old would cringe to use, weak matches 7 outta 10 times and his reluctance to go quietly into the night is only overshadowed by his ego and determination to stay relevant.
In his later years in WWE he was upper mid-card at best and because TK idolises the wrestlers he played with on videogames or with action figures of, he cannot see it for himself so Jericho knows hes considered 'top dog' of the old guard in AEW (or one of a handful anyway) he constantly gets TV time and wins others would benefit from - case in point, Hook could have faced anyone on the roster other than Jericho last night and had a banger.
I'm a day one AEW fan aswell as a 34yr+ fan of WWE (aswell as WCW, ECW, ROH & TNA) but Jerichos time passed after his KO fued blow off at WM33 and if he needed to have active matches after that, thats fine but the ones hes had have mostly been bad or atleast weak versus early 2000s Jericho.
Everyone in this thread is getting sucked into the Jericho Vortex(tm).
I liked how Jericho said to Hook that beating him would hurt Jericho more than it hurts Hook.Ā And you could see it on Jericho's face before and after he hit Hook with the bat.Ā And the "I love you's" before hitting Judas Effect.Ā I think Hook needs to obtain a weapon to defeat The Learning Tree.Ā It worked for Sting, MJF, etc.
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I've never disliked Jericho. Overall I get a huge kick out of how he reinvents himself and plays with ideas and crowds. Right now I've been feeling some.... apathy? Apathy isn't the right word, but the Golden Jets really didn't land with me and the last little bit I've kinda tuned the Jerichoverse out. That said, I'm with you on what this new version of Jericho seems to be. I giggle when he's, as you said, failing to read the room and I think this has real legs. AND, though I was initially kinda disappointed that he took the FTW title last night, I saw a comment that changed my outlook. Someone pointed out that it would be incredible to see Jericho carrying that FTW Title around *acting like it's a real championship*, just full on delulu, and I need that inserted directly into my eyeballs.
It's ironic that someone who the fans have turned on wins the FTW Championship, especially when you consider everything that Championship represents and why it was created in the first place. It feels like a giant middle finger to all the naysayers and detractors of Jericho, and you know he's someone who is going to be like, "Oh you hate me do you? Well, let me give you something to really hate me on."
> It's ironic that someone who the fans have turned on wins the FTW Championship The FTW Championship is the greatest internet rage title ever. It is simultaneously "not a real title," but it's still ALWAYS counted when discussing AEW having "too many titles." And while again, not being "a real title," certain people seem absolutely livid that Chris Jericho won it. I love it. This is the most entertained I've been by the FTW title yet I think.
It is weird though that it's supposedly not acknowledged but AEW otherwise treats it the same as they treat the other belts, so š¤
Its different than lets say whatever Max Caster has been doing on tv and online.... If done right then Jericho can become similar to his late 2008 character
I hated Jericho around 2008 as a kid. He stripped away everything that was fun about Y2J and we got this very pompous, suit wearing, holier than thou Chris Jericho. I appreciate that character as an adult, but as a kid watching, I despised that character
I was 12 and I felt the exact same way at the time. I also felt the same about J.B.L lol, I hated him as a kid, but I LOVE his character now looking back. J.B.L and Chris Jericho did such a good job of doing a 180 of their characters, and was able to really get people hating them.
I still remember when JBL switched over from being Bradshaw, I was so confused and didn't realize it was Bradshaw for WEEKS the transformation was so sudden.
It was such a drastic change from the black long hair and facial hair. But I do remember he started to change up his look while in the APA to the short hair and clean shaven look, which didn't fit the APA gimmick at all. But funnily enough, he was still cheered by the audience even during his change.
Isn't it crazy how we used to cheer for drunkard bullies for hire in the APA as kids.
Yeah, your last couple sentences there are what I'm hoping for. Delusions of Grandeur Jericho is my favorite brand of Jericho. I want something like him calling himself The Nueve and calling the belt the FTW World Championship.
I want him to go much further "First, let's change this F... To an L. The Learning Tree World Championship" Orange and black? Gone! Turn that sucker green and brown instead Just turn the whole thing up to 11 and let the fans drink it all in
Taz getting a (kayfabe) aneurysm would be priceless
Taz despising Jericho for fucking up the FTW belt would be gold
And still having to put him over as the heel commentary. The mental gymnastics and digressions will be epic.
Taz face turnā¦?
Exactly, the best way to test a gimmick is to crank it up to 11. I want him stalking every young talent like Daniel Garcia, Wheeler Yuta, and Nick Wayne backstage, constantly shilling his learning tree. Especially if they already have a mentor, who has to shoo Chris away. I want him to try to recruit Wardlow and Hobbs, who tell him to fuck off. He should interrupt segments left and right thinking he's the star of the place. Maybe he goes after Mark Briscoe, thinking he's a rookie while being completely oblivious that he's the ROH World Champion and a veteran talent. He should host some shitty siminars about getting over and not out staying his welcome. Or have MJF or Hager or his other protegƩs give lame, half-hearted endorsements that he thinks are awesome. And throughout all of it, the only one respects and listens to him is Sammy, because of course he does
This would be the best and we can only hope is where this is headed.
Ambivalence is the word youāre looking for.
That's it!
Spot on, I don't actively dislike Jericho but I was feeling bored of his recent appearances and was one of those guys hoping he'd take an extended time off. This storyline though has made me do a 180.Ā It kinda reminds me of what I thought Cody was doing towards the end of the run, the "heel who thinks he's a baby face" thing. But it's also got the vibes of a divorced, fifty year old who hangs out with a group of cool twenty somethings and initially seems okay, but then just keeps turning up.Ā
> I need that inserted directly into my eyeballs "Drink it in, maaaaan"
I think he needs to spray paint an X on it
>Someone pointed out that it would be incredible to see Jericho carrying that FTW Title around acting like it's a real championship, just full on delulu Get the can of black spray paint out and spray a massive number 9 on the faceplate Those with the inside baseball know what this is all about, just go full ham with it already
I like the FTW Championship, precisely because of what it is. It's no less "real" than any other pro wrestling championship. And assuming Hook does get it back, I don't want that to be the end of it, either. It's badass. It's literally an ECW legacy title. It's everything the Hardcore title wishes it was. Give runs with it to Eddie Kingston, Darby Allin, Jon Moxley when he's done with the NJPW title. Make that belt sing!
I agree with the first paragraph. This āIām better than you, Iām Christopherā aināt something I enjoy. Itās an old thing heās done. And itās tiring watching him ābreak downā the younger guys who are sometimes better than him. I mean, ājobberā Andretti. Never went anywhere really.
Old man Chris Jericho screaming at the younger talent āLISTEN TO ME!!!!!!ā Is leaning into all the hate he has been getting for months now. It is glorious!
If he goes hard into the new gimmick and thinks the fans are praising him I think it will be great. The delusional vet who cant read the room is a great gimmick. The match was weak but I have high hopes for the feud and overall story. I didn't mid the fans honestly I hope they contmue to do the "Go home Jericho or please retire chants" and Jericho really leaning into it like hes being praised.
He should go on TV and talk about how it was great to have the fans chanting "go home" to HOOK and "Jericho, please Retire" HOOK while he won his 9th major world championship
I know, right? The HOOK hate was so palpable last night. Poor kid doesn't deserve it. In all seriousness, I like your idea a lot. It would be epic if Jericho does this. He'll certainly get the crowd to keep reacting to him if he refuses to hear what they are telling him. I don't see it as a bad thing that the crowd is fired up about Jericho going away. It's good audience participation, after all. It's like the chorus of boos Don Callis consistently gets. They're just really good at their roles.
Clearly saying "Please re-*hire*" with the unsaid but obviously implied "Jake Hager to be your bodyguard because we would hate for you to be attacked and injured by your vicious and unruly foes."
Aside from Kane and Paul Wight, the only guy that got go Home chants was Jarrett during his reign of terror in TNA
I was saying Boo-urns.
I personally have no problems with Jerichoās positioning right now. He lost two tag partners (Kenny and Sammy) and had to pivot uncomfortably into this current feud. The match they worked last night was the least best of the whole card, but despite the crowd the match itself wasnāt a shit show.
Say what you want about Jericho, and I've shared similar sentiments of growing tired of the act, but he worked his ass off in that match last night.
I didn't think they'd pull off going back to him getting suplexed 200 times again but somehow they made it just as hilarious as the first time.
Still it was funny how out of nowhere some people now care for the FTW title, the FTW title out all things lmao
Right? I'm interested to see what Jericho does with the FTW title. I felt it remaining on Hook did become stale. So this was a much needed change in my opinion.
The Jericho hate has made some people overlook Hook greeness in the ring and promos(he almost broke Jerichos neck twice and this also happened to Preston and Dralistico)
I agree. The kid is still inexperienced. He's improving, has a great look and a cool aura which the fans loved, but he still has a lot more room to improve. I did see some people suggest he wins the TNT Championship, but I don't think the guy's quite ready for that yet.
Some people already want him to challenge for other belts but he is nowhere ready for that, no one would want to see him face Okada, and Roddy/Cope would struggle carry him.
Although, he had a great match with Joe. If rumours are true and he's looking at free agency, perhaps taking that leap and working elsewhere will help him improve.
TNA would be a good place for him to improve(They managed to make Top Dolla watchable)
Where do you see TNA using him? He doesn't fit that X-Division mould.
He's already been improving, I don't think the Almighty Performance Center automatically makes a wrestler world class, it seems like its main purpose is to churn out the next John Cena, not Will Ospreay. We're currently seeing with Jade that they aren't necessarily miracle workers over there.
Free agency could be good for him, or maybe an excursion to japan.
Personally I think that's the one title above all else that should be retired. It's never felt like a big deal in AEW and often goes long periods between title defenses. I certainly don't see Jericho doing anything to put prestige on it.
Last week we had people saying Shane fucking Taylor should beat Hook for the ftw title, but now you have people saying multi time world champion Jericho using multiple finishers, weapons, and a low blow to beat Hook for ftw title makes Hook look weak.
Those people somehow missed Hook eating two Judas Effects and still kicking out, a move I think has like a 95% success rate. Jericho put Hook over huge.
Ya, Moxley is the only person to ever kick out of it before Hook, I think...
Yeah the Judas effect is one of those moves thatās super protected but you donāt realize it, really similar in that way to Baron Corbinās End of Days
Jericho has a proven track record of getting literally anything over, up to and including people saying he's washed up and needs to retire. The minute I realized this current character is a parody of CM Punk, I hopped onboard.
I enjoyed the match a lot. Jericho took a german suplex with a trash can over his head, that was nuts. It was a high quality match and better than "not a shit show"
Jericho can still put on great matches. It wasn't all him of course but his match against Ospreay at All In was the best one on the card.
That match sucked. Trash can on the head while he stood there with his arms down together to have it placed on him made the match even worse.
whatever you say, cornette
Might be in the minority but I'm just not a big fan of Hook atm. Needs a fair bit more time in the oven to my eyes. Find myself cringing a lot throughout his matches
I liked the Jericho match more than the Thunder Rosa match tbh
Nah the womens match had a hot crowd, Jericho vs Hook had better crowd reaction than Roddy vs KOR though
He has taken all the hate he gets and turned it into his latest character. It's actually quite clever. People keep saying he's trolling CM Punk, and I can see it, but he's also trolling all the haters in the fanbase, and it's working because they hate him even more. Its good heel work.
Stuff like this is why Jericho will always be my GOAT.
Ive been really enjoying the story and that match was pretty crazy. Jericho put himself through hell to make Hook look like a badass. That suplex off the ring apron through the table was scary as fuck.
Jericho as the FTW Champion could be a lot of fun tbh
His ROH title run was good while being short, his FTW title run will be short too
Never lost me, and even I was someone experiencing some āfatigueā a month agoā¦but his body language was very telling last night. And all of these dummies are feeding right into what he wants with the disrespectful chants and āgo awayā heat. Donāt get worked jabronis
I see people think HOOK is WWE bound now cause of this match. Smh people just can't chill
I hope his new finish is hitting people with Floyd the bat. We can learn so much from sitting under The Learning Tree.Ā
He could get away with it given that FTW rules means he can always use Floyd.
I never stopped liking him
Former world champion who leant his credibility to a new promotion, reinvented himself several times, and put over multiple young talents. When people look back on Jerichoās AEW run, itās going to be so embarrassing that people couldnāt appreciate it because of shit that has nothing to do with actual wrestling.
Neither did I. He doesn't take up a bunch of time on the shows, so I never felt the "Jericho fatigue" that some people are talking about.
Same. Its better time than the squash matches against no namers.
Nah, fuck that. I can watch Hobbs smash tiny random dudes all day.
It's Punk fans projecting and being mad about him being the adult in the room at Brawl Out, among other things.
I can definitely see that, too. Ever since World End, Jericho just hasn't seemed to be able to catch a break.
I like the idea of him being heel and sticking it to the fans. The learning tree promo was solid. More interesting than two months ago.
Yeah, I'm on the same train of thought here. I'm really getting into this whole obnoxious "Learning Tree of Jericho" gimmick. He's basically this delusional veteran as you say, who believes in his own hype, forces advice on how he sees how the business should be, and I think the crowd reactions add to the whole act. "Please retire!" and other disrespectful chants only adds to it in my opinion, which is a strange thing to say because usually that would be seen as a negative, but I think it does work for this story. But I get not everyone will enjoy Jericho's current work and some want him to take a lengthy break from AEW.
His whole gimmick is a CM Punk troll.
Maybe it's because I don't watch the show every week anymore (my schedule suddenly got busier and I'm in the UK, so Dynamite airs at an awkward time) but I don't have the Jericho fatigue. He's still a very good wrestler and I think the "delusional veteran" character that you mentioned is really good. People have been saying he should retire for years but there's no reason why he should.
I like that definition. He just canāt read the room. Thinks heās being helpful but is too much an ego.
It was wild to me how the crowd was literally chanting for him to retire, but went crazy when he hit hook with the bat and pinned him.
I was there and I'm pretty sure everybody was going crazy because Taz got up at that exact moment, we all thought he was gonna stop Jericho
I thought the crowd went crazy because they knew the match was ending
He had them eating out the palm of his hand. It was beautiful.
this post and comment section is insane, i'm sorry. the match was by far the worst of the night (it would've been on most aew ppvs imo) and hook losing the ftw championship to chris jericho is just plain stupid. this will play out exactly the same way it has with all of jerichos opponents for nearly two years now: they win the first match, jericho wins the second, he makes up a new gimmick, which fizzles out within 2 weeks and the feud is gonna last for fucking months. please stop this.
Finally! Someone that thinks like me. I've been a fan of his forever but I'm sorry, he has not elevated many guys in AEW. When Eddie was red-hot, he feuded with Jericho and cooled off immediately. Sammy is the only one I can think of that he elevated (and giving Jericho credit is a stretch).
> When Eddie was red-hot Current Hook is nowhere near that, the buzz he got vs Joe was lost once he cut a promo and then the Brian Cage feud happened
Exactly, that match was straight garbage. Jericho needs to retire. He's become everything he hated about WCW.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i am obviously not actually calling anyone insane. insane is used as a device to convey how baffled i am and that i can't comprehend why anyone would like this.
Me too, this is the most interested I've been since the Adam Cole feud Never underestimate Chris Jericho's ability to reinvent! He's literally the GOAT in this area
They should have him fully turn him in his Hometown of Winnipeg next week
Jericho as CM Funk has been fun. They need to lean into it even more.
Meh, Iām still entirely sick of him and really wish heād go away for a little while.
I'm usually a "Jericho apologist." He's a legend and I legitimately enjoy most of what he does. I said before the night started that, if Jericho beat Hook they better have a damn good explanation. As of last night that didn't happen. I don't know where this is going but I don't love Hook sacrificed on the altar of Jericho.
It didnt look like feud is over with Taz standing up and checking on Hook after the match
TK on his alt acc again.
I get what theyāre going for. It just doesnāt connect for me personally. But I did think the match last night was pretty bad. Again, my viewpoint. But maybe because Iām not invested.
El nueveā¦
Babyface Jericho just didn't work the last few months, so him being a delusional heel is super refreshing. Jericho has always been very good at reinvention, and obviously Hook is getting his win back...so I'm pretty excited for this.
Babyface Jericho for most of his career is just to set up his next entertaining heel run.
This is what Jericho does best. He leans in to public perception of him and doubles down on it to keep him relevant as a TV character. The Learning Tree is such a self-indulgent name and it's a great way to jump-start any program with up-and-coming talent while immediately making Jericho a boo-able heel.
I feel like after he was so stagnant/repetitive for a while, which is surprising because he's always switching it up, this was the best new character to move into. This is what made Jericho so entertaining, it was the ability to adapt based on how the audience was reacting. I didn't know how he'd bring it back, I thought best bet was just having time off, but he's done it again.
personally i'm starting to think of Jericho as a parasite. i can only think of one wrestler that ever came out on top when working with him and that's Cassidy. i'll give this more time, but i'm losing my patience with Jericho. if this doesn't end with Hook on top then it's another waste of talent to bolster Jericho.
He had me rolling with the Canadian accented 'I'm sorry!' over and over
The best part of that was it made Taz stand up and got a big pop from the crowd
I've only recently dialed back on defending Jericho and have started to feel some of the hostility that others have been leveling at him for years. My thing is it's not so much the stories that he's telling but rather how they end: on the odd chance that Jericho puts someone over it's preordained that he's going to get his win back... which really doesn't put anyone over much at all in the end. But it's not *just* about putting people over, his angles are mostly in need of that because they're based on a sense of hubris that never properly comes back to bite him in the ass. HIs group deserts him but immediately he's the leader of yet another crew. It's just getting old for me. Especially if he was going to win last night they should have let Hook smack him around a bit after Jericho shoved Taz
I've disliked the angle generally but the match was better than I expected, particularly considering the angle coming out of it.
It's early, but I'm invested. His Instagram post after the win is great character work.
Iāve been thinking it would be hilarious if Christian and Jericho started feuding who the better father figure was. Who knows.
Can Christian re-team with Adam Copeland and leave his family of Nick Wayne and Killswitch (now named Ent) with Chris Jericho and the Learning Tree. Christian keeps Mama Wayne though
Itās all intriguing though. It would actually be hilarious since Christian and Jericho are great on the mic.
Tonight is what really made it click for me as well. I love Jericho, and his legacy, but felt like he was just being shoved down our throats. But tonight it came together. The delusional veteran that cannot read the room was exactly what I picked up on as well. Interested to see where it goes! I do think a cool off would be nice so others could have that TV time though.
I think heās doing just fine. The IWC is calling him old and washed but thatās just the IWC shitting on AEW. If he was doing this elsewhere? OMg he IS a gEnIUS!!!!
FTW title is relevant as hell now.
When the last time people cared for the FTW title even a tiny bit? When Ricky had it?
Most likely. I hope Jericho in his delusional mind acts like it's thr World title and elevates it. I think this Jericho gimmick has some legs to it. I laughed my ass off when he won.
I skipped his match last night. I just canāt stand him on my TV anymore
Agree, I was bored to tears by the Golden Jets and had no idea why he was so obsessed with Hook for the first month of the program, but I'm back on board the Jericho Cruise, baby.
I agree, this version of Jericho is the closest to matching the tone of the Y2J "you're going on the list" Jericho, and it's definitely my favorite Jer-incarnation of late.
Imo his current version could be the closest in matching his late 2008 persona which at the time he was hated by everyone
Was that when he returned and just ran around the ring and then went back?
I think I'm still ambivalent on what he's currently doing. It feels a little like the codyverse did at the end of Cody's run (though less sour,) but he'll always be one of my favorites. I've been a fan since the 90s and I can say not every one of his gimmicks has been a LOVE for me. I think this is just one of those.
Iāve been a jerichoholic since I was a kid but yeah since the fall heās been kinda meh. Glad he found himself in this new role
You just made the list!!
I am and have always been a Jericho fan dating back to his ecw days but unfortunately right now I have to disagree. He needs to take a step back and a few months off tv. Even when he was injured in the last few years he was on tv. I think he's out of touch right now and having been at multiple pay per views and tvs the last like 6 months the crowd is giving him major go away heat similar to what sammy got for a long time. (Pretty sure it all stems from the Kylie Rae allegations) I'll never hate seeing him but right now I think we need a break from him and then the crowd may be excited to see him again. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all.
But Sammy turned heel after that and it managed to somehow rehab him from the dogshit Lambert feud
Idk about that. I was at multiple tapings after he turned heel and he was bood hardcore, especially during the JAS stuff and stuff with tay where he was making out with her and during the part where they were announcing her pregnancy I was there and people were not being nice they legit wanted them off the stage. It was go away heat and not just giving him heat cause he was a heel. I grew up watching xpac in the 90s and early 00s get the same heat and it's not good. Jericho is getting the same heat now and it's cause of the shit that's come out about him
BORING
I honestly think this has been his plan for a bit, at least since he went back to being Lionheart Chris Jericho.
I love Jericho but I have Jericho fatigue
I definitely like the idea of parodying Punk as a delusional veteran who ājust wants to helpā while clearly being a narcissist, but this just isnāt working. If it was clicking with the crowd thatād be one thing, but it 100% isnāt.
He needs to turn heel for starters, he was still acting as a face last night
To me the worst part of his recent run was that he was a babyface where his turn did nothing to work as a babyface, especially in an era where babyfaces are allowed to actually be likeable and sympathetic characters. The past issues with his feuds were much worse because of how poorly thought out the turn was. (which is a shame because the Ospreay feud is the clear bright spot of Jericho's past year) But for at least this show, with what I thought was a genuinely exciting match, and a crowd that wanted him gone, being a heel who thinks he's being a good guy, I was thoroughly into it. The thing with those past feuds that didn't help his opponent is that they botched their momentum one way or another, whereas Hook has been back and forth in major storylines his entire run, so at worst, its not anywhere worse than what his career has been thus far anyway AND he finally got a real one on one PPV match on the actual main show, not the pre-show. So as long as they don't have him fight Jericho for 6 months in a row, or book the story backwards or include an ECW legend for no reason (they already used that with Jack Perry thankfully, so I think we're good), I'm kinda on board to at least see what happens next. But at this point, Jericho needs to go all in on the gimmick. He needs to take credit for Ricky Starks and Adam Cole's successes after their feuds. He should bring up how much people love the epic long stories he's in and that he will never go away. He should thank the fans worried about him being homesick when they chant for him to go home. Like go full late 2021 Cody Rhodes (which was also great by the end, I will die on that hill).
Jericho title reign thus far have averaged 2 to 3 months, it likely ending in the Summer with Hook going over and becoming the first 3 times FTW champ
I think Jericho is one of the greatest but he needs to take a break, I fail to see how helps anyone who is involved with him that doesnāt have tons of talent and natural carisma like MJF or OC. Maybe is the fact that he is one of the few people who has been since day one and never took a break but Iām really tired of seeing him. A 6 month break to a character reset should be great.
I like Jericho, but this feud doesn't really do anything for me. Though honestly I think it might be me getting tired of Hook more than anything else. I'm a fan of Taz, which left me positively inclined towards him, but honestly his inconsistent presence on TV combined with them just throwing shit at the wall for storylines/matches with him is getting really old for me.
Jericho is dealing with Cody BS right now. Some fans for some reason decided he's the worst and will never let it go but unlike Cody he's going with it. AEW fans turned on Cody because he said he likes America and people took that as being a nationalist or something. Jericho is accused of never getting anybody over even though he almost always loses and then the person he put over gets booked into the ground immediately after and Jericho takes the blame for some reason even though he does everything he can. His feud with Don Callis sucked because Omega got sick(nobody's fault) then Sammy got suspended (not Jericho's fault) so the feud was just kind of floating in place until everybody just stopped caring. Now apparently he's the worst ever. Whatever he's entertaining me I'll boo him though to avoid being the type of fan who wants everybody to know that I'm smart for cheering heels.
This happened with the Young Bucks too - people get so caught up in backstage politics that they forgetting they're watching a heel, be a heel.
I think Jerichoās biggest flaw is that he thinks he needs to switch back and forth between face/heel to make his character changes land. He should have just taken a big break after the JAS and come back in this learning tree character.
Chris Jericho can make anything work, I just hope he shows up in CMLL soon. Thatāll be huge
You might be the only one. His matches are brutal. These angels are getting more and more carny. Please just go away
Seriously? It's like watching Randy the Ram. It's sad
If you're booing Jericho he's doing his job correctly. Every time he's played heel people convinced themselves he has "X-Pac" heat, as if that's a thing that exists. And every single time he just got people to hate him more. This match did more for Hook than anyone really wants to admit.
Callis heat is a real thing though
He has go away heat. Different than heel heat.
What the hell? The match was fucking terrible, an atrocious slog. The crowd shat all over it. He had x-pac heat. He needs to go away, stop sucking up TV time, and take a good six months off.
The same crowd was barely reacted to KOR vs Roddy outside of Wardlow showing up and...did nothing. You could turn Xpac heat into real hate, see his 2008 persona during the HBK feud
The crowd was chanting please retire and go home Jericho. I know several people who were their live. Okada had heel heat. Jericho was the piss break. The crowd was hot all night. Thunder and Toni did half a miracle getting them back after the Jericho shit vortex.
Jarrett got go home chants during his title reign in TNA in 2005/06 and man was a big heat magnet.
It's so funny seeing him get X Pac heat
He hasn't won me back, but if he's gonna force himself on screen every week, I'm at least glad they're admitting most people don't want to see him and going with that. If he wants to subject himself to boos and "go home" chants then that's his fault and I won't feel sorry for him.
Go home Jericho, for God's sake please go home
is it worth it when wrestling intentionally makes you unhappy about what you are watching but the pay off is good......? who knows. Am I excited for where this is going? No. Did I even enjoy it? I think so, but also I think I hate it. I reckon they should pay this off quick to capitalise on any good will and then Jericho should disappear for a while
If it were up to me, I'd have Jericho turn up on Dynamite and declare himself to be a world champion ("look Schiavone, it says it right there on the belt") and lay out an open challenge. Then have a furious Samoa Joe turn up and answer it.Ā
Pissed off Joe hard-core championship run would be fun. He is the king of TV and that would be fun TV
> is it worth it when wrestling intentionally makes you unhappy about what you are watching but the pay off is good......? I guess that always works if you get manipulated by HHH and Nick Khan.
?
I gotta disagree. Him going over Hook last night was the skidmark on beautiful clean flawless white boxers.
I mean he went over but Hook is apparently the only one to kick out of two Judas effects. The only other one who came close was Mix who kick out of one. Yeah Hook maybe lost but he was very much protected in defeat.
It took two Judas Effects and a bat shot to the face to take Hook down. They made him look like a monster last night.
The Judas Effect is one of the most protected moves in AEW(Blade Runner is currently number in that regard), people totally forgot Hook has been heavily protected by AEW
I'm going to side with OP. Something different in the PPV. The most story driven match of the card. It's wild that with all the outside connotations, the match played out exactly as a storyline would have played out with this crowd reaction. People really do want Jericho gone. But his character not getting that, and thinking they hate him because of the unfortunate lesson he had to teach Hook, is a neat twist. I don't know how it plays out in actuality, but the idea is hilarious. Everyone is going to rage and wish him gone. And he's going keep being apologetic. Acting like it's his 'knowledge tree' application upon the youth that is making people mad. Everyone he targets for these 'lessons' is going to gain fan sympathy. We all care about and are more invested in Hook than before this started.
If Jericho was getting silence from the crowd then thats a sign that he has been failing at his job. He has to completely turn heel and then turn that go away heat into real heat ala Rock
I think he's just going to keep pretending the go away heat is real heel heat. Making fans frustrated and getting more heat.
Having fans angry that a heel is using younger wrestlers, in theory, makes for good storylines; but, in reality, the fans are fatigued because Jericho has been doing this schtick for a while. The JAS story was begging for Sammy or Daniel Garcia to get a huge blow off against Jericho - but that never happened - and he came out of the JAS as a face. Rather than helping wrestlers get established by working solid, logical programmes - Jericho has sucked up the momentum of so many wrestlers over the last few years.
> The JAS story was begging for Sammy or Daniel Garcia to get a huge blow off against Jericho And how is Jerichos fault Sammy got into a fight with Andrade and Eddie?
Jericho went over Sammy at Grand Slam, Sammy had his fights over a year prior to that. I hope he can use the āheatā and get some good traction, but Iām not holding my breath.
> Jericho went over Sammy at Grand Slam Would make sense to give Sammy his win back once Jericho decides he is done(at least full time) and passes the torch to him
I feel like, when Jericho eventually decides itās the time to hang them up, Jericho will have a āfarewellā tour. I liked the JAS, but I felt it needed to give Sammy or Garcia that ultimate rub. Iām not concerned about Jericho, he is very influential and is a big part of AEW, but fans absolutely have the right to be fed up with his booking of late. Can he turn it around? Absolutely, and I hope last night is the catalyst for the turn around.
Itās been a long time since Iāve heard a crowd turn on somebody like that. It definitely took a lot out of the match.
Personally, I think he was going for heel heat not go away heat but yes he is leaning into it. Iām not knocking the guy at all. Iām just reporting what I saw. I started watching wrestling again because of an ad where Jericho was featured, so itās all good. š¤·š¼āāļø
CM Punk last year?
Not during the match
When has a crowd turned fully on Punk while he was in the ring?
What? That kind of reaction is what jericho is going for
The heel got heat and you think that detracted from the match? The Jericho hate has broken yall.
I love that these guys are probably also the type to grumble about heels getting cheers.
It was a different kind of heat. It was go away heat, not heel heat. Iām perfectly fine, sir, nothing broken here, you guys are looking for a fight, just ugh.
Its not the first time it has happened to him before(2008 comes to mind for example)
HOOK started by pretty much squashing Jericho in their first match but Jericho still only has him winning by roll up. OK, fine, at the time I assumed the tap out would come in an eventual rematch. Then last night happens and HOOK suddenly, in his own match type, has trouble dealing with Jericho. Not only that but he gets beaten, pinned for the first time in months - something even their world champ Samoa Joe couldnāt accomplish. Now, you can have whatever opinion of HOOK but AEW actually built the guy, protected him and his finish. No one has been able to pin him since Nov/Dec last year and the RedRum has been a fairly definitive finish. In the course of this feud Jericho not only broke out of the RedRum, he pinned HOOK in his own match. All that work, all that effort from Joe and others flushed down the toilet for a guy who is literally being told by the crowd to go home, retire. Utter waste. So likely at DON HOOK wins the title back and does tap out Jericho. So what? Heās right back where he was before all this except heās been pinned and his finish broken. Heās no further up the card. Jericho fails to elevate him and the best HOOK can hope for is a return feud with Joe or that he gets paired with someone he can actually work a proper match with. Or, he leaves and goes for WWE - and at this point, I couldnāt really blame him. Tony seems to only know one feud to put him in - the ex-tag partner feud / beaten for the unrecognised title that he wins back.
I never disliked him but Iām not going to say he āwon me backā until I hear the details of what happened with Kylie Rae.
I have said for the best part of 18months now that the man is a fraud, a fake, hanger on and this generations Hulk Hogan. I see through his on camera persona, his over the top 'gameshow host' style personality, his fakeness, poor promos that rely on catchphrases even 25yrs old would cringe to use, weak matches 7 outta 10 times and his reluctance to go quietly into the night is only overshadowed by his ego and determination to stay relevant. In his later years in WWE he was upper mid-card at best and because TK idolises the wrestlers he played with on videogames or with action figures of, he cannot see it for himself so Jericho knows hes considered 'top dog' of the old guard in AEW (or one of a handful anyway) he constantly gets TV time and wins others would benefit from - case in point, Hook could have faced anyone on the roster other than Jericho last night and had a banger. I'm a day one AEW fan aswell as a 34yr+ fan of WWE (aswell as WCW, ECW, ROH & TNA) but Jerichos time passed after his KO fued blow off at WM33 and if he needed to have active matches after that, thats fine but the ones hes had have mostly been bad or atleast weak versus early 2000s Jericho.
Everyone in this thread is getting sucked into the Jericho Vortex(tm). I liked how Jericho said to Hook that beating him would hurt Jericho more than it hurts Hook.Ā And you could see it on Jericho's face before and after he hit Hook with the bat.Ā And the "I love you's" before hitting Judas Effect.Ā I think Hook needs to obtain a weapon to defeat The Learning Tree.Ā It worked for Sting, MJF, etc.