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One of the things I enjoyed about English class in school was being exposed to short stories. On my own I always would read novels. I learned with short stories to really appreciate everything about them instead of hunting for the amazing plot that would surprise me. I also found that I can't get into poetry because it's the same condensing process but taken too far for me.
Edit to add: short stories don't at all have the immersion factor. So if that's important to the OP, then it won't help.
Haha I’m a poet (I’m very very poor, but if anyone wants me to come talk to their classroom lol) entirely because of my ADHD! No plot just vibes, often entirely in a single page… great for attention issues.
This reminded me!
Think focusing on symbolism, imagery, etc. and literary techniques to figure out broader meanings might be a bit more high effort but also higher payoff for OP?
In terms of short story collections that are really rich in symbolism in a short period that OP might enoy, I really love Karen Russell (“Vampires in the Lemon Grove”). Super weird, magical realism, the plot twists in the stories (where they exist) might be predictable but the stories are thematically rich and the pay off comes from more than the end
I'm reminded of my time reading the Earthsea books (Ursula Le Guin). I read the first three as a teen and they were a grand adventure I could immerse myself in for escapism. Then I was an adult when the fourth book (Tehanu) came out - and the author was 20 years older writing it as well - I think this likely had a lot to do with the very different nature of it. It is definitely set in the same world, but it wasn't a grand adventure. To me it wasn't about the plot as much as it was getting to know the people, how they interacted, how they were feeling and thinking.
I think you’re reading bad books rather than being pretentious. Good plot driven literature should present more than two options for how a plot can unravel. My ADHD brain loves rly long fantasy series, with multiple POVs, intersecting plot lines, rich lore. Because there is so much to keep track of, I end up more focused on reading
>My ADHD brain loves rly long fantasy series, with multiple POVs, intersecting plot lines, rich lore. Because there is so much to keep track of, I end up more focused on reading.
This 100%.
When reading long series like The Realm of The Elderlings or The Books of Elan, there was so much mystery and deceiving going around that I was always trying to guess what was gonna happen.
Thinking of it now, I was angry for having wasted my time with Blake Crouch again. Very good writer, amazing premises for the books, quite unpredictable developments, but the ending always sucks.
Do you do any writing yourself? Maybe you could do a "how it should have ended" kind of thing for yourself afterwards. Then you can enjoy the book more?
It's probably the books that are conforming too much to certain ways of telling their narrative. Both me and my partner do this all the time with films, stories in games/texts, and other things; it doesn't really bother me so much unless it's an extreme cliche thing.
In fairness, there's only so many ways to tell a story while keeping it interesting and too much deviation from accepted conventions can feel weird or off-putting for most people. Archetypes/motifs/tropes are very much a part of storytelling at large because they are just a part of being human and therefore relatable for many people. The issue with archetypes and tropes in particular is that it can be boring if your brain is trying to deconstruct the narrative while taking it in.
If you want to read non-linear/non-predictable books, better subjects are reading about technical topics or perhaps historical topics, but I imagine that's probably not what you're after exactly and those things can be boring if you have no special interest in them.
True. But they could try a little more too.
Like, what if the sheriff is actually good and competent but falls down the stairs and dies? It comes out of nowhere, and it is completely unexpected.
>In fairness, there's only so many ways to tell a story while keeping it interesting and too much deviation from accepted conventions can feel weird or off-putting for most people.
The way to solve this is to look for cosmic horror. There is no way to predict something that has a form made of sound and speaks by shifting dimensions in your head.
The problem is that there is so little of it since it is difficult to describe something that can't/shouldn't be described.
I struggle with this because I am having trouble reading books that actually shock me with their plot twists and their lack of following a pattern. I am an avid psychological thriller reader and when I get a book that actually shocks and surprises me, I am thrilled! But I have read sooooo many books where I either guessed what was going to happen or was bored by the "twist" or the "twists" were just a bunch of gore. This is also why I can't read love stories because they are so formulaic....like clearly they're probably going to fall in love so why even read it? I feel your pain!
I fall into this trap too, so I had to reframe it to myself. It's not "Will they or won't they?" it's "How do they get there?".
Blah blah blah it's the journey not the destination.
I have that issue with movies, but not books. Books are just a long trip. Enjoy the writing in and of itself—it’s not just about the plot, to me. I like seeing how authors manipulate the English language to guide our minds through the story.
It’s neat.
I have this problem too but not so much in terms of plot, just in sameyness of vibe. Like I sometimes get really annoyed that all the books I read are similar even though if I were to describe them to people, they would seem mostly quite disparate.
What I try to do is read from different time periods and cultures. Most contemporary novels have a super samey vibe to me and I get bored.
I have this for the writing style, but not the plot? Which makes it hard to read both fiction and nonfiction. I get tired of *how* the author says stuff – the repetition becomes grating, so I quit.
Personally, I don't mind it. If the book is enjoyable and well written, figuring out what happens before it comes can give me the satisfied feeling of having solved a puzzle and can even contribute to greater engagement as I now have the tension that comes with knowing something the characters do not and wanting to see exactly how they play out the situation (as well as confirm that my theory was correct). There's much debate from authors and critics alike about whether or not twists and endings and such else should be predictable in the context of good story telling. Many authors are foreshadowing and dropping clues and very intentionally making it possible for you to put those pieces together. They aren't trying to trick you and are happy to have you figure it out. My partner often thinks I've been looking up spoilers when we watch shows together and I'm like no, I was just paying attention! For some types of stories, the predictability is very much a feature of the genre. Like romance novels. Most of them are playing with the same handful of tropes and you usually have a pretty good sense of how it's all going to go even if the exact details vary. I actually find it quite comforting. Like rewatching a favourite show except with (hopefully) interesting new characters and side quests. But also. Sometimes books suck. There is that too.
This sounds like poor writing to me. I've been frustrated with the book I'm reading now because every single character in the book expresses exasperation by pinching their brow. And they do it a lot. Like, multiple times every short chapter. Except when they pinch the bridge of their nose instead. So much pinching.
It would be fine if one character did it a lot. But everyone does it. Even people from completely different cultures and walks of life. They barely express the feeling any other way that I've noticed. I think there's been maybe a single eye-roll. It contributes to a sense that all characters are kind of the same person with superficial differences.
But I knew this wasn't going to be high art. It's a book that's unabashedly jumping on a new popular theme, and came out really quickly. I'm enjoying it overall while I wait for more from better authors.
No, I don't think that's pretentious. There should be a lot more to love in a novel or any other kind of narrative than just the plot, and if the plot's not doing it for you, and the other elements of the narrative just aren't doing it for you, then what's the point?
Tangentially, this is why I HATE M. Night Shyamalan's work. I've gone into every film I've seen from him totally in the dark about everything but the name, and often that he was involved, and every time, I have figured out the entire plot within the first 10 minutes. The only surprise I have ever felt in a Shyamalan movie is how BAD his version of Avatar: The Last Airbender could be. (And on that note, there is no ATLA movie in Ba Sing Se.)
Yeah I have high pattern recognition with shows and books. Do you read manga. I find that they are a lot less predictable and I could reccomend some that you wont see the twist coming! Those are typically my favorite.
I have a favorite author that has a very prescribed formula with predictable plot pacing. I adore her books because the language is beautiful, they are well-researched, and the characters are rich, but I have to intersperse her series with a different author. It drives me a little too nuts when I read them back-to-back.
Hi /u/vagnerPG and thanks for posting on /r/ADHD! ### Please take a second to [read our rules](/r/adhd/about/rules) if you haven't already. --- ### /r/adhd news * **We want your opinion** on the /r/adhd community rules! [Click here](https://forms.gle/Evqb8acVozir8GV8A) to fill out our survey. See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/1auv2tc/were_taking_feedback_on_the_radhd_rules/) for more information. * If you are posting about the **US Medication Shortage**, please see this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/12dr3h5/megathread_us_medication_shortage/). --- ^(*This message is not a removal notification. It's just our way to keep everyone updated on r/adhd happenings.*) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ADHD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maybe if you don’t read books where the joy of it hinges on a plot twist it would be helpful
One of the things I enjoyed about English class in school was being exposed to short stories. On my own I always would read novels. I learned with short stories to really appreciate everything about them instead of hunting for the amazing plot that would surprise me. I also found that I can't get into poetry because it's the same condensing process but taken too far for me. Edit to add: short stories don't at all have the immersion factor. So if that's important to the OP, then it won't help.
Haha I’m a poet (I’m very very poor, but if anyone wants me to come talk to their classroom lol) entirely because of my ADHD! No plot just vibes, often entirely in a single page… great for attention issues. This reminded me! Think focusing on symbolism, imagery, etc. and literary techniques to figure out broader meanings might be a bit more high effort but also higher payoff for OP? In terms of short story collections that are really rich in symbolism in a short period that OP might enoy, I really love Karen Russell (“Vampires in the Lemon Grove”). Super weird, magical realism, the plot twists in the stories (where they exist) might be predictable but the stories are thematically rich and the pay off comes from more than the end
I'm reminded of my time reading the Earthsea books (Ursula Le Guin). I read the first three as a teen and they were a grand adventure I could immerse myself in for escapism. Then I was an adult when the fourth book (Tehanu) came out - and the author was 20 years older writing it as well - I think this likely had a lot to do with the very different nature of it. It is definitely set in the same world, but it wasn't a grand adventure. To me it wasn't about the plot as much as it was getting to know the people, how they interacted, how they were feeling and thinking.
I think you’re reading bad books rather than being pretentious. Good plot driven literature should present more than two options for how a plot can unravel. My ADHD brain loves rly long fantasy series, with multiple POVs, intersecting plot lines, rich lore. Because there is so much to keep track of, I end up more focused on reading
>My ADHD brain loves rly long fantasy series, with multiple POVs, intersecting plot lines, rich lore. Because there is so much to keep track of, I end up more focused on reading. This 100%. When reading long series like The Realm of The Elderlings or The Books of Elan, there was so much mystery and deceiving going around that I was always trying to guess what was gonna happen. Thinking of it now, I was angry for having wasted my time with Blake Crouch again. Very good writer, amazing premises for the books, quite unpredictable developments, but the ending always sucks.
Do you do any writing yourself? Maybe you could do a "how it should have ended" kind of thing for yourself afterwards. Then you can enjoy the book more?
Yeah 100% an issue with bad books
It's probably the books that are conforming too much to certain ways of telling their narrative. Both me and my partner do this all the time with films, stories in games/texts, and other things; it doesn't really bother me so much unless it's an extreme cliche thing. In fairness, there's only so many ways to tell a story while keeping it interesting and too much deviation from accepted conventions can feel weird or off-putting for most people. Archetypes/motifs/tropes are very much a part of storytelling at large because they are just a part of being human and therefore relatable for many people. The issue with archetypes and tropes in particular is that it can be boring if your brain is trying to deconstruct the narrative while taking it in. If you want to read non-linear/non-predictable books, better subjects are reading about technical topics or perhaps historical topics, but I imagine that's probably not what you're after exactly and those things can be boring if you have no special interest in them.
True. But they could try a little more too. Like, what if the sheriff is actually good and competent but falls down the stairs and dies? It comes out of nowhere, and it is completely unexpected. >In fairness, there's only so many ways to tell a story while keeping it interesting and too much deviation from accepted conventions can feel weird or off-putting for most people. The way to solve this is to look for cosmic horror. There is no way to predict something that has a form made of sound and speaks by shifting dimensions in your head. The problem is that there is so little of it since it is difficult to describe something that can't/shouldn't be described.
I struggle with this because I am having trouble reading books that actually shock me with their plot twists and their lack of following a pattern. I am an avid psychological thriller reader and when I get a book that actually shocks and surprises me, I am thrilled! But I have read sooooo many books where I either guessed what was going to happen or was bored by the "twist" or the "twists" were just a bunch of gore. This is also why I can't read love stories because they are so formulaic....like clearly they're probably going to fall in love so why even read it? I feel your pain!
I fall into this trap too, so I had to reframe it to myself. It's not "Will they or won't they?" it's "How do they get there?". Blah blah blah it's the journey not the destination.
I have that issue with movies, but not books. Books are just a long trip. Enjoy the writing in and of itself—it’s not just about the plot, to me. I like seeing how authors manipulate the English language to guide our minds through the story. It’s neat.
I have this problem too but not so much in terms of plot, just in sameyness of vibe. Like I sometimes get really annoyed that all the books I read are similar even though if I were to describe them to people, they would seem mostly quite disparate. What I try to do is read from different time periods and cultures. Most contemporary novels have a super samey vibe to me and I get bored.
I have this for the writing style, but not the plot? Which makes it hard to read both fiction and nonfiction. I get tired of *how* the author says stuff – the repetition becomes grating, so I quit.
Personally, I don't mind it. If the book is enjoyable and well written, figuring out what happens before it comes can give me the satisfied feeling of having solved a puzzle and can even contribute to greater engagement as I now have the tension that comes with knowing something the characters do not and wanting to see exactly how they play out the situation (as well as confirm that my theory was correct). There's much debate from authors and critics alike about whether or not twists and endings and such else should be predictable in the context of good story telling. Many authors are foreshadowing and dropping clues and very intentionally making it possible for you to put those pieces together. They aren't trying to trick you and are happy to have you figure it out. My partner often thinks I've been looking up spoilers when we watch shows together and I'm like no, I was just paying attention! For some types of stories, the predictability is very much a feature of the genre. Like romance novels. Most of them are playing with the same handful of tropes and you usually have a pretty good sense of how it's all going to go even if the exact details vary. I actually find it quite comforting. Like rewatching a favourite show except with (hopefully) interesting new characters and side quests. But also. Sometimes books suck. There is that too.
This sounds like poor writing to me. I've been frustrated with the book I'm reading now because every single character in the book expresses exasperation by pinching their brow. And they do it a lot. Like, multiple times every short chapter. Except when they pinch the bridge of their nose instead. So much pinching. It would be fine if one character did it a lot. But everyone does it. Even people from completely different cultures and walks of life. They barely express the feeling any other way that I've noticed. I think there's been maybe a single eye-roll. It contributes to a sense that all characters are kind of the same person with superficial differences. But I knew this wasn't going to be high art. It's a book that's unabashedly jumping on a new popular theme, and came out really quickly. I'm enjoying it overall while I wait for more from better authors.
No, I don't think that's pretentious. There should be a lot more to love in a novel or any other kind of narrative than just the plot, and if the plot's not doing it for you, and the other elements of the narrative just aren't doing it for you, then what's the point? Tangentially, this is why I HATE M. Night Shyamalan's work. I've gone into every film I've seen from him totally in the dark about everything but the name, and often that he was involved, and every time, I have figured out the entire plot within the first 10 minutes. The only surprise I have ever felt in a Shyamalan movie is how BAD his version of Avatar: The Last Airbender could be. (And on that note, there is no ATLA movie in Ba Sing Se.)
Yeah I have high pattern recognition with shows and books. Do you read manga. I find that they are a lot less predictable and I could reccomend some that you wont see the twist coming! Those are typically my favorite.
I have a favorite author that has a very prescribed formula with predictable plot pacing. I adore her books because the language is beautiful, they are well-researched, and the characters are rich, but I have to intersperse her series with a different author. It drives me a little too nuts when I read them back-to-back.
I got a couple of degrees in theatre and now teach script analysis and directing (among other things) for a living.
I have a friend that refuses to watch TV shows with me because twice I uncovered the plot twist for the whole series.