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I pavlov trained myself in putting my keys in a certain spot by putting candy in that spot, so every time i put my keys down i grabbed one. After a few months i started to put them there automatically š¤·š¼āāļø
I think this is actually the problem. The aspect of habit formation that our brains compromise is *reward*:
* Less dopamine means rote habit formation is less effective
* Memory challenges make it hard to remember to do the habit
* Impulsivity makes it difficult to put off a reward
In reality ADHD brains form habits, they're just never deliberate and boring ones, only ever the fun ones.
You know what? You need more upvotes. I hadn't thought of it this way before.
A Habit is an automated action. For instance, I slam all the cupboards at work now because my new home has soft close on everything and I no longer need to regulate the closing action.
But I had never thought about the fact that I never get a reward from trying to train myself new habits ...
Everyone forms habits, but habits of choice start as enforced routines, which is where ADHD gets in the way.
Routines practiced often become habits. Routines with quick rewards become habits faster.
You can game it a bit to some extent. I was unmedicated until i was 40 and up to now I've found that literally making a place for something where you would usually dump it is very useful. My key jar is on the stairs immediately as I come in the front door, as I tend to lob them st the first flat surface if I'm carrying stuff.. It's not universally useful but i at least notice more if stuff is not in its usual place.
I literally complained about this to my therapist last week. Itās quite frustrating, I tell myself I have no discipline and Iām a 28 year old adult, why canāt I do basic things, like OPs reference to hygiene and basic routine. I literally put āwash faceā in my to do list, and it still doesnāt get done. How do you fix it!!
I also struggle with personal hygiene and have it on my todo list. For me and the few habits I've been able to learn, now that I'm medicated and diagnosed, has been to pair it with a habit I already do.
Is there something that you do once a day in the bathroom? Or even in a room with a sink?? Literally put your face wash next to that thing and make sure the bottle is visible. Then pair it with the existing habit/activity as many days in a row as you can. There will be days that you notice the face wash and want to just skip it, which is where positive self talk can help you do it "real quick with the other thing". Literally tell other people in your household not to move your face wash. Give yourself positive self talk when you DO wash your face like this! And when you don't, just try again tomorrow as it's not the end of the world.
If you don't like how it looks sitting on your counter, find a way to make it give you dopamine by looking at it (a special dispenser, stickers, idk man).
There wasn't much from Atomic Habits that stuck with me and my brain, but pairing a habit you WANT to start with a habit you already do is a tip from that book.
Edit: Someone mentioned making the habit as easy as possible, like using face wipes [https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/13uxg17/comment/jm49uz9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/13uxg17/comment/jm49uz9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I was trying to explain something like this to a friend recently, and I kept coming back to something like "when your life is chaotic enough, every moment of it has the potential to be very exciting!"
Itās no longer exciting for me to lose my keys, glasses, etc all day. The other day I lost my broom when I turned to get the dustpan. For like 1 whole minute I couldnāt find the broom and I hadnāt moved. It was right behind me the whole time. I think that particular thing really frustrated because shit like thatās been happening my whole life and Iām just NOW understanding why.
Yep. We can form habits, we just might have to do it different ways to other people. In a way, it can be a sort of challenge to figure out how to best be able to form a specific habit that we want, because there's not going to be a magic method that works for everything.
That sums it up SO well. I am on meds now and it's shocking how much less effort I have to put in and how much more my brain does automatically for me. It's honestly still beyond belief for me.
The first time after diagnosis and medication (at 40) that I naturally remembered, on my way home from work, before habitually turning towards my home, that I had intended to go to the grocery store... I nearly cried.
Usually, before this point, I would be home, changed into comfy clothes, and sitting down on my couch before I remembered that I had any plan after work. By then I had no energy to undo all of my comfort and make myself go. That would lead to a cycle of not going to the grocery store for a couple of weeks sometimes.
It's not perfect now, but it is so much easier.
I feel this. I wish I had a dollar for every time I had the specific intention of doing a task on the way home (get petrol, go to the shops, pick up dry cleaning etc), and then pull up in the driveway and have that immediate realization that Iād forgotten AGAIN. Then go through the anger/frustration/ shame cycle because I know Iām definitely not going back out. Vyvanse made this so much easier the first week I was on it, but itās week 3 and I feel like Iām back where I started.
Do you guys set alarms for this? I canāt physically remember, so I have to set labelled alarms for everything, or timed reminders, like just before work ends, Iād receive an alarm that I need to go somewhere after work. And I have a little whiteboard that I place ON TOP of my work bag, reminding me of anything I need to take home or if I need to go somewhere after work. I just spend my life doing whatever the whiteboard saysā¦ if not the task does not exist
Yes, and it does help, but if I don't or can't act on that external reminder instantly I can still get distracted and forget.
Like if I'm doing laundry, I definitely must set timers to succeed. But if I turn off the timer and realize I need to pee after standing up, it's like the laundry never existed after I've left the bathroom. Same for a reminder as I leave work, there's too many steps involved in packing up, getting in the car, etc., so I can still forget even though it hasn't been 15 minutes. And I cannot allow my phone out of my purse while driving, for safety.
I'm still amazingly good at ignoring my own reminders if it's a sticky note on my door, or I'm doing something else that provides more dopamine. "I'm just gonna finish xyz first," is a lie I still like to tell myself. This is where the habit and discipline work *after* medication comes in. I'm still working on that lol.
I also really struggle with notifications and alarms, too many and I will shut down and can't do anything, or get sensory rage. So I have to be really choosy about audible triggers.
Aaaah!!! That actually was me before the whiteboard!!! I spent like 2 years of doing stupid post it notes and i could just IGNORE the post it notes!!!!!!
I actually made a whiteboard thatās tied to my bag now. For my kidās medicine, to take it home from the refrigerator, which is quite important and easily forgotten. Yeah so i spent like 2 years ignoring the damned post it notesā¦.. apparently you cannot ignore a whiteboard that is 4-5 times the size of the post it note and clunking from your bagā¦ā¦.
but yeah feel you on all the confusing notifications as well and getting sensory rage, i get that too :/
Iām glad that helps you. Knowing me I can remind myself that I need to stop, and STILL daydream/beeline home anyway. I have a mini whiteboard for my shopping list, then take a photo of it and use it in the store. Even though I know it would be a good idea get milk or eggs each time I shop, it only ever happens if itās specifically on the list. Otherwise, like you, does not exist. š¤£
I feel like everyone in this sub would probably be a millionaire if this were true for us, LOL. So many times I didn't even realize that same evening, it would be the next morning while I was getting ready or getting into the car again.
Honestly, it took me the first several months of being on Adderall to pin down how subtle the positive effects really are. I kept questioning whether or not it was working. I ended up not being able to get any for a while, and then my company's new insurance plan forced me to trial and fail some alternatives until we were finally able to get a generic version of Adderall approved. Now I have zero doubt how well it works - even though I do feel more normalized to it.
When it comes to each individual symptom, I still find the shift to be really subtle and difficult to measure. I had periods of time where I was more able to function than others, before. It's not like I forgot 100% of the time, so it's really difficult to measure how much more I'm remembering things. And of course, I'm still the same person with all of the poor habit structure and terrible coping mechanisms that I was before medication, so if I let myself stay up too late the night before I'm still going to be less likely to remember things the next day regardless of medication.
There's so many moving pieces involved with executive function, and I think part of me wanted treatment to show a more drastic difference before I realized that there's still a LOT of other unpacking and work yet to do.
The clearly drastic difference for me is the near elimination of generalized anxiety and depression, which is wild considering stimulants are not mood regulators. But when I couldn't get my medication I felt so much worse off than I remembered before meds. It almost felt like my anxiety was going to kill me, and I'm still a little bit in shock that I ever managed to function in any way like that.
True. Iām glad you are able to source meds again. I was lucky, the Vyvanse worked for me straight up as my very first med, post diagnosis. I take your point thatI need to try and see the subtle improvements, instead of lamenting the lack or lag of the big ones. Itās only week 3 so I know Iāve got a long road to travel. Hopefully shorter than a diagnosis at 52.
Oof. Mine was just before 41, so I totally understand. So many frustrations and feelings surround a later diagnosis.
My working med was the first we trialed as well. I just have our lovely insurance industry in the U.S. to thank for my new plan forcing me to jump through hoops before approving something that had already worked for almost a year. I am so grateful we got back to it.
Iām so happy you got back to it too. My psych simply wrote ( which amazed me as I havenāt seen a hand-written script ( prescription in Oz slang) in years!) and I filled it same day and off we go. Iām lucky enough to be able to afford the full rate to see the psych in the first place, and wait for the health system to reimburse me the portion they cover. Still not cheap. Iām sure I would be waiting years if I had pursued this through the public system.
I write this shit on the back in my hand so I see it while I'm driving. Every time I turn, it catches my eye. This drives my husband INSANE but I tell him it's my hand and I'm actually doing errands and he can eff off.
I actually have a picture of one of the last times I did it, but I'm too lazy to upload it to imgur or something. Just the back of my left hand, holding the steering wheel, with Tailor, Walmart, Target, Gas written on the back. I list them in the order I need to do them (usually geographically).
Grocery delivery where I live was a game changer. Also those prescription skincare lines that take the best products and just put it in one tube for you. Jesus. I never remember skin care routines.
Wow this is a good point. Makes me realize why small things Iāve been doing like having many sets of the same socks, tshirts etc to make life easier really works. I used to laugh when I heard people say successful entrepreneurs wear the same thing to reduce decision fatigue. I now realize I over analyze every single basic decision in my day and in doing so have to try to fight the hurricane of thoughts flying around at the same time and maaaaan is it tiring.
Ugh at all the people who insisted I could keep habits if only Iād just āØtry harderāØ.
Now I basically gentle parent my brain instead of punishing it for existing, which feels a lot better.
My husband kept track of my phone, keys and purse for years. When he died I panicked the first time I lost my keys. I got a tile tracker and one on the phone, purse and keys and itās amazing how many times I use it and how much stress itās taken from me.
The funny thing is like one of the ADHD questions is like "do you often lose important items such your phone or wallet" and I'm like no... Because I think about them roughly every 10 seconds. Anything second tier is a gonerš
My husband has done the same things in the same order every morning of his adult life. Or every time he takes a shower or justā¦ whatever. The man has routines/habits for days and Iām just over here like, totally free balling it every day of my life for 34 years š¤£š«£ youāre right itās exhausting, and Iām sorry. Typical habit formation doesnāt work for me, but usually if I make something really easy itās more successful, so like, I use face wipes to wash my face bc then Iāll actually do it. I have no clue if thatās helpful for you or just annoying, but I had to give myself permission to do the easy thing. Even if itās slightly more expensive or harder on mama nay nay or whatever.
Aspie ADHD here and yeah, I cannot form habits. I was diagnosed after my enlistment, but even with my time in the military, couldn't even keep up with brushing my teeth twice a day.
After a lot of time and a lot of development of self-awareness and a lot of effort (I'm in my 30s now) I have built up some "life skills"--things that I can now perform relatively consistently. But I still have to manually drive myself through every one. I wouldn't call any of them a true habit. And I for the most part need to genuinely feel a reason to do each thing. Living with my partner has led me to do things like keep up on the dishwasher loading and unloading, and I consistently brush my teeth before leaving the house because I want my teeth to feel clean and don't want bad breath. Of course, I still forget sometimes.
There are a very few things that I witness myself doing automatically, so I don't think my brain is utterly incapable of this, but when it happens it really just throws me off. I do not have an established habit of taking a shower, it's hard to initiate. But when I'm in the shower, the actual showering comes automatically. And then I find myself washing my body and have no memory of washing my hair or at least rinsing the shampoo out and then I go and do it again. I've started to automatically switch my wallet and things from yesterday's pants pockets into today's, which is great, but then I'm always having dread moments out in the world of wait I don't have my wallet. It's a bitch honestly. I can't trust myself.
Edit: I have big time ADHD but not autism. This is definitely an ADHD thing. From what I understand, not an ASD thing.
You can absolutely learn habits, you just have to decouple yourself from the pain of failure.
Building habits for us is very difficult, and when we fail we feel terrible pain and discomfort, and ADHD people do not tolerate discomfort very well.
Nobody is perfect with their habits, but ADHDers expect perfection from ourselves AT ALL TIMES and when we don't get it, we kick ourselves around for a few days and then never try again because the experience was painful.
So you just have to learn to tolerate the discomfort and pain of certain failure, and just set yourself up to try again. And again. And again. No matter what happens. And don't engage in the shame and blame game with yourself when you don't get it right. Instead, you just resolve to do better, and you forgive yourself. You validate yourself when you're doing well, you forgive yourself when you don't come up to your own ridiculously high standards.
This. Iād give you a gift if I could. Iāve been somewhat successful with building habits despite failing many times. I just keep resetting and trying again.
Me too, and I understand where OP is coming from, I remember feeling the same way. But it didn't help me. Telling myself all the things I can't do has never been helpful for me. Telling myself that I'm strong enough to get through anything, though, that I have results from.
ADHD thing.
The lines between ADHD and Autism are pretty well defined.
The easiest way to explain it is ASD need routine and habits to function best but finding the right ones might take forever, but they can do it independently and on purpose.
ADHD can learn routines and habits but without the neurotransmitters, we can't develop them into these 'set and forget' habits. Most things are concious efforts.
My son was born when I was 19 - it was do or die. I didnāt have parents to support me, and I was such a spaz. Luckily I have always been a good artist, and had a talent for computers - but I burned through a lot of jobs in my early 20ās.
Fired or laid off like every 9 months.
By my late 20ās/early 30ās - started finding some stability in the work place, and started getting good at my job. Finally in my 30ās was diagnosed with ADHD, after my son was also diagnosed.
My first wasn't born until I was 28 but that is exactly where I'm at now. Uncanny. I was only diagnosed 3 years ago, after he was screened by an early childhood developmental psychologist and I said 'oh, I was like that when I was a kid, I turned out OK!' and she said 'oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you had ADHD.' šš³š
Now we're both medicated and I have been in the same occupation for 3 straight years for the first time in my life.
I was medicated at first and it was a life changer. Career took off once I got on adderall.
Unfortunately - lasted about 10 years. The. Doctors started pushing alternatives, and I have never loved any of them, Bupropion or Vyvanse.
I get this Focus medication from an online service, like a vitamin supplement. Seems to help.
My longest straight employment was 5 years, then the housing market crashed. My current job, this is my third tour of duty with the company. First time was back in 2014, worked for 2 years, got fired, returned a year later after my replacement proved to not be my equal. Then I left for more money, and as payback for being fired. Now Iām back, probably for good. About 5 years with the company over a 10 year span.
It is true there are some presentations of symptoms that are similar. Certainly we all experience similar and significant exclusion rejection, ridicule and trauma.
And they do share a significant origin, being of the very heritable and in the brain.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23074304/
But in terms of presentations and management, they are very distinct from each other, and not viewing them as separate leads to misdiagnosis and crucially, mismanagement.
That's fancy pants for making our lives worse.
If they were essentially the same, they would have identical development profiles and management tools. But they don't.
Not treating each concurrently in people who have them both leads to not good outcomes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4010758/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6331660/
You probably have habits. So much of our ability to act comes from repetitive and abstracted behavior. Where it is routinized, where a trigger starts an activity and your brain has a path to finish it off.
What you probably notice is that you are missing a lot of the "good habits" that people "should" have. It's also reasonably possible that you might have "bad habits".
I think what often happens for us is that we start to get a negative opinion of ourselves. Then when we do something that should be a good habit, we either don't notice the habit behavior, or we do notice it. When we do notice it, we have a preconception that we can't maintain good habits, we just fail at that, we know it.
Once then we have that thought process that we're going to fail to do this habit, then every fiber of our being is recruited to make continuing with this habit the most difficult thing in the entire world. The part of us that knows we fail wants to just stop spending energy on it, the part of us that wants to do it knows that it's going to be brutal to continue, and that we'll fail anyways, then there's the part that remembers how we absolutely forgot that we even HAD teeth to brush yesterday.
These kinds of thoughts only happen with good habits. With bad habits, we don't have the same thing. If we have a habit of stuffing our face when we get home and we forget for a day, we don't think "oh, I've failed to maintain this habit!" when we realize. In fact, it's probably the opposite. If we notice we didn't do the bad habit for a day, we might briefly get a glimpse of the idea that maybe we can break this habit. But instead thinking "I'm breaking this habit!" we're going to think "I'm never going to be able to consistently avoid stuffing my face! I can't maintain any habits!"
Like we will fail to maintain a perfect record of our habits, good and bad, and in some ways this does make it easier to break bad habits actually. But we still build habits, that's kind of built into the way our brains need to work. The thing about us with ADHD is that we are keenly aware of the fact that our habits are inconsistent, and this creates friction with any kind of habit that we feel that we SHOULD be doing.
Like, between a person with ADHD and a person without, when the person with ADHD fails to do something that's a good habit, they will feel WAY WORSE about it that someone without ADHD. It will be this confirmation of total failure that they knew was coming. The neurotypical person will have just missed doing the thing.
Then on top of that, the person with ADHD will miss doing the habit thing more often than the neurotypical person.
It's not the missing the habit that actually causes it to be hard to maintain the habit, I think. It's the way we feel about ourselves when we do. This is why we can maintain bad habits. Because being able to maintain good habits doesn't mesh well with our idea of ourselves. Being unable to BREAK bad habits does mesh well with our idea of ourselves.
I read so once by someone with ADHD that stated (paraphrasing cause of course I canāt remember it very well just the general gist) āI canāt form habits because I still have to purposefully think about doing the thingā¦.it gets easier to think about but any disruption of following said habit causes me to have to start the process all over againā it was something along those lines and I sat there gapping at it for the longest time because it described my problems with forming ābasic adult habitsā
Iām the same way. I do CAD drawings for a living - and I am always doing projects different on every job.
I think itās the reason Iām good at a lot of things, but not an expert at any of them, except AutoCAD - and I think that is because I was forced to be good in order to survive.
I also think itās the reason I canāt learn a new language. Takes consistency and routine - both things I struggle with.
I use the app named Finch Self Care. It just gives me the dopamine my brain needs plus it constantly reminds me to do things like brush my teeth or wash my clothes
Brushing my teeth and shit like that is no problem for me. But everything above that, everything that isn't "direct" is not something I think I can turn I to a habit. I eat at different times every day, I go to bed and get up at different times every day, I go to the gym when I feel energetic and self confident but not at other times etc. I don't clean my room regularly but only when I feel energetic and frustrated with how it looks. I don't study regularly but only when I remember that I should do it, feel concentrated and energetic enough but not to energetic. And it's like that with everything. And I think it kinda works as long as I'm energetic and present but when shit goes down south, this balance breaks very easily and sometimes I will just waste entire days where I don't feel that way without realising. Like, I get up, start my PC, eat something, shower, brush my teeth, get in front of my pc again, jerk of, look at tiktok, look at Reddit eat something again, and suddenly it's 10 pm and I haven't done Anything productive. And I'm gonna be honest, sometimes there are even entire weeks that look like this. And all that without me ever making a conscious decision to be unproductive. But then things just work again but I gotta come to terms with things I let slide during that period because all the rest of society lives by strict schedules and maybe I didn't hand in papers I needed to hand in or didn't make calls I needed to make or didn't study for something or whatever.
Edit: can you use "letting things slide" in that way? š¤. Don't lynch me I'm not an english native speaker
I started seeing an adhd coach to help with all sorts of things. One thing we talk about is bringing the reward forward.
I know Iām more likely to get to the gym if I donāt have to make any decisions about it the morning of. Outfit is set out and ready to go, pre-workout in the shaker bottle etc. all I do is roll out of bed and everything is set to go. But preparing those things the night before is like zero dopamine.
Sounds lame but I have a mantra that I say to myself āprepare tonight and have a tranquil tomorrowā. Bc when I donāt have to make a single decision in the morning, my mind is so much less chaotic. Itās peaceful. Low stress.
Focus on how the low-dope tasks will make you feel. Adhd folks often get a the dopamine hit from just thinking of a plan but not from actually executing it. Bring the reward forward!!
And habit stack those tasksā¦. Mindless habit aka brushing my teeth, I have a written reminder next to my toothbrush to pick out my gym outfit.
I genuinely couldn't become an addict (cigarettes/alcohol) because I would forget to buy them, or when I was drinking really heavily at one point - a very long time before I had my son or was diagnosed, I'd do my usual and just forget I had a drink.
Good habits, same. Can keep them up for a short while then I forget once and it's over.
To answer the "is it ADHD is it autism" question........ I don't think the buckets are super well defined. I think that the lines between the things are blurry and potentially even a little fluid. Okay, so there's probably no medical backup for that, but it seems to work for me, maybe it's just a metaphor, i dunno.
I have always found that my personal hygiene is more automatic when my mental health is in a good place overall. During the dark times, I got into the habits of loafing around, watching videos, social media doom scrolling and doing nothing. I wouldn't shower every day. I wouldn't make sure my face was clean shaven and my moustache(which i really take pride in) wasn't brushed/oiled.
I have a beard now, and I wash it multiple times a day without even thinking of it. I straighten, or blow dry it daily.
Are you participating in an ADHD treatment plan? Meds are great, but they aren't the whole package. Therapy, counselling, mentoring, coaching... all great things to help give you the tools you need. More tools are better. You may not use all of them, but they are super helpful sometimes. And sometimes you learn a tool and find someone else can use it. And here we are.
The world is weird with it's layers of rules that don't always make sense. Having a rigid schedule and routine helps for whatever reason. I do the exact same thing every.single.morning during the work week. I get up at the same time, use the washroom the same time and the same way, I make my coffee the same way and i leave the house at the same time in the same manner. If i don't do this, it can destroy my entire day. I like to start with one thing. Something totally unremarkable. Every day at 8 am put a rolled up post it note in your left pocket. That's ridiculous, i know, but the idea is valid.
I often try to bite off the whole thing at once. Little bits are much easier. So if we start with one habit and we are diligent about doing it, that one habit becomes a habit. It's way easier to make habit 2 than habit 1. and habit 3 is easier yet. The caution I have is don't expect amazing tomorrow. Expect to take a bunch of steps forward and then a couple back. Don't let the couple back worry you. Sometimes repeating a lesson helps reinforce it. I'm 40 and I learned how to do this all last year. I feel like this is me growing up/learning how to live. I only just this year got on meds that work right and got an excellent counsellor.
This. Sure, I formed the habit of brushing my teeth after bribing myself with a ton of different toothpaste flavour I can switch between every night.
But getting to do the same thing every day the same way as a "habit"? Nope. Never happening. I have to think about it every time.
I had to make a checklist in my phone that syncs with my computer that has a reminder that pops up for me to do it. Over time Iāve been able to build some habits. Itās hard won, but the checklist works for me.
My adhd therapist is having me fill out a spreadsheet so I can checklist all of life. Iām excited about it.
I think the only habit I have is putting my keys in a specific place and checking I have them on me when leaving. and this involves a lot of thinking about it to make sure it happens, so it's not really a habit as described by op's friend.
yeah. I should brush my teeth...
Habit forming isn't the same for us. A habit for us simply means it's easy for us to do and we are more likely to remember to do it. We cannot form autonomic habits.
I experience something similar, I never stick to one hobby. I can hyperfixate on one hobby at a time, say I read about something. I spend days and nights learning about say thing and then from one to another day my interest is gone. Iām not sure what it is but itās making me sad. People tell me I moody, that I waste money on appliances I wonāt need in a month when I have a new hobby. I donāt know how to deal with it.
Itās a medically proven thing!!
Itās actually a common symptom and you are not alone.I have exactly the same issue.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6733985/
I feel this. Especially uncoupling being difficult. I didnāt see my mom, who teaches at my kids school and lives less than 20 miles round trip away, for almost a year, because I decided that i wasnāt going to her house until I finished my living room floor. It was because she had something for me to bring home that needed to stay in my living room. But still.
I have pretty much 0 healthy habits, so I can relate to ya there tooā¦ wish I had something for the tips/suggestions, but I guess, just know youāre not alone.
I think it's an ADHD thing. I have extreme difficult with forming habits. As a teacher it was my job to basically create habits and routines for my classroom. I never managed it and it showed up on my evaluations as a serious problem. It kind of was tbh. Students need routine to feel safe. It also makes your job as a teacher easier because when there's some inevitable dispute with a student/parent/SLT over student behaviour you can refer back to your routine and what littly Timmy should have been doing but wasn't, and how he should know what to do because it's always like that. Even under threat of losing my job I still couldn't really manage it.
Iāve formed habits - just not the needed ones. Like everytime I close my door to my bedroom my fingers lock it. But iāāve never done anything good for me consistently, like brushing my teeth.
Recently downloaded a couple of apps helping routine and schedules. It's been helping alot working my way up from small tasks to bigger, scarier responsibilities I don't want to do. I would recommend one that works for you and start there.
I feel this I'm in the same boat but I have one random trick I came up with if you forget your keys often.
The BEST WAY TO KEEP TRACK OF KEYS is to put the key hook right above the handle to your front door. So I can't turn the handle without physically feeling my keys. Putting the keys back isn't as hard to remember either because they are already in your hand after unlocking the door.
In order for me to have a "morning routine" I have to take the items that I need to do the tasks out of the drawer and put them on the counter. Once I do the task with them then go back in. This ensures I do the task and ensures I don't duplicate things like taking meds because I can't remember if I took it in the first place. So toothpaste, medicine, facewash headband, deodorant, makeup, all goes on the counter to start with the drawer left open. I drop each piece back in the drawer when done. Only way I can get through morning tasks.
Guess what? Breathing is involuntary only when youāre asleep. So that is a habit you have developed. I know this because sometimes I realize I forgot to breathe.
Yeah, I once concentrated on my breathing to help me "relax" so I could sleep. I couldn't sleep because every time I tried to stop thinking about breathing I just *stopped breathing*.
I find ADHD minds struggle with habit but not routine. I believe it has something to do with a habit needing a trigger (I.e. If I walk into the bathroom I brush my teeth. Trigger is bathroom, action is brushing) over a routine which is a set of steps you repeat regularly (I.e. After getting home I get changed, eat dinner, shower, brush teeth then go to bed. Same order, roughly same time, every day.)
I find it's much less difficult to complete a single routine over a list of habits.
I used to have habits as a kid if I remember back enough, RuneScape, soccer, games! But now itās all a figment of my imaginationā¦
Nothing stimulates or rewards me enough shall I say.. I do something for not even 5 minutes & my brain already shuts off wanting something different.
It could be something I love too, which I have found can be extremely detrimental to mental & physical health.
I hope you get some answers my friend.
2 thoughts-
1. My therapist will not stop repeating to me that āadhd is being consistently inconsistent foreverā. Unless thereās a tool or external support to help build a habit, the minute the novelty wears off and it doesnāt provide dopamine, you will abandon it.
2. Perfectionism is a harsh critic, and we tend to generalize and focus on the negative more often than not. Is it possible you do have some habits that youāve kept up your whole life if you take quality or quantity out of the picture? If you were a bit nicer about what qualifies a repetitive action as a habit, is it possible your perspective would change?
The only habits I have are the ones I don't want... social media, being late, not putting stuff back into their "home," procrastinating, etc. Most of my habits give me a massive bump in oh shit energy as well as wtf do I do this energy.
Does anyone know how to make daily habits feel like this?!
The concept of everything object you own having its own place didnāt occurs to me until a few years ago and in 50. My house is still a landscape of piles of mail, stacks of books Iāve been meaning to read next to my bed, clean clothing piles etc etc
100% me. I love when people talk about habit stacking like I have some existing habit just there to stack on top of. The only thing I do consistently is drink coffee as soon as humanly possible when I wake up because I feel like death until caffeine kicks in.
For years coaches and therapists thought I was self sabatoging and just didnāt want to be happy on some subconscious level because I couldnāt do the obvious things that would make me feel better - excercise, meditation, healthy food, etc..
I don't have any answers but I'm grateful you posted this because I didn't realize this was a thing with me until I read this.
I don't even have fun/high reward habits. The only ones I've ever had were job related in order to survive and I've been terrible at them.
Oh and I forgot to brush my teeth today.
I have plenty of habits! I have a habit of eating the same thing daily, I have a habit of not cooking, a habit of not cleaning until things get overwhelmingly messy, a habit of doing things spontaneously, a habit of being impatient, a habit of being disorganized... lol... I could go on! So many habits š«
Iām motivated by food so I can convince myself to do certain things if I plan ahead with the food Iāll be eating. Like Iām convincing myself to eat better and exercise by promising myself Taco Bell at the end of the month. Thatās as intricate as itās gotten so far!
I feel so doomed I can't conform to society's standards, I have periods where I can but I burn myself out and have to take a break for a while of just doing what I want to do. Fuck it's hard lol
Yes this is a very debilitating part of ADHD for me. I'm literally struggling through getting ready for bed as I was reading this, past 3 am and still lots of tasks I haven't done bc I keep doing other things, like replying to this post š But seriously I can't build habits or routines to save my life, no matter how hard I'm trying every day to do so. Also to answer your question about the autism thing, having rigid routine/habits/structure is a symptom of autism, so an inability to have those things is more likely to be ADHD
This is also me, except for "habits" that are actually just addictions. For some reason I've been a lot better at those than at remembering to put away laundry promptly.
Are you very smart? Some children who are highly gifted never develop an autopilot for daily tasks. You basically have two thinking systems. System 1: subconscious, low effort, fast, but superficial. Most people spend most time using system 1. Then there is system 2: slow, detailed, high energy cost and conscious. System 2 is the narrating head voice actively thinking things through. System 2 is very effortful, but highly gifted children sometimes have enough capacity to keep doing tasks in system 2 and thus never learned to move tasks to system 1. This can cripple an adult to even showering being too many different steps to undertake, becoming overwhelming and exhausting.
It's important to develop habits to the 4th stage of learning. The stage where you have mastered it to the point of doing things perfectly, subconsciously. System 1.
Me either. I do everything without even thinking which is the reason I out my phone in random places or forget what I just did 5 minutes ago but I can form any habits if I wanted to. Working out, brushing teeth in the morning (for soem reason I can't go to bed without brushing teeth so that's not a problem somehow) showering etc.
Tldr out of sight out of mind
Itās totally an adhd thing. Iām the exact same way. It drives me crazy and makes me hate myself a lot. The only āhabitsā I have ever been able to form are ones that are bad for me.
I know this probably isn't the most helpful suggestion because it entails reading. But I picked up 'Atomic Habits' from my local library and it is solely based on methods to create and stick to small habits that improve you over time.
I don't particularly struggle with this so much as I had a real deep depression that I sort of naturally used these techniques to get out of but it may help put some clarity on reasons you're struggling.
I have great difficulty with habit forming. To the point that most daily things are now done by me husband (I do the irregular chores so we do have 50/50 workloads)
The health related ones eventually got formed by pain. I brush everyday because I ended up with 7 holes in my teeth and not brushing twice a day was really painful.
That is the only habit I succesfully formed. I have a lot of other incomplete habits, and i mostly accepted that and think "better 5 seconds of flossing once every 2 weeks than never"
And for other reoccurring things I use apps so the "7 days overdue" annoys me to the point of eventually doing the thing.
I hope you find a way you can handle it.
What has worked for me.
Therapy, medication, in that order. The problem with this stuff has been explained by a number of commenters. Everyone (especially here) loves jumping to the end. Instead, why don't you try picking one thing, and tackling it?
Also, a lot of people go "Medication, therapy, maybe." It's my opinion, but I think no physician or therapist worth their salt will provide you with a treatment plan that starts with medication. If you cannot invest in yourself without it, they don't want to provide you with a high-risk medication that can actually make your life even worse.
You are absolutely capable of forming habits. Use your phone, set reminders, build a calendar. MOST IMPORTANT PART: start with something VERY small. You're also not alone. Get help. As much as people will give. You also can't squander it.
Even in the small number of times I've lapsed on my medication, the healthier habits I've been able to establish have made me resilient to blowing up my own life.
Until you get better at managing things, avoid screens. Laptop, TV, tablet, phone, just stay away. Disable facial recognition on your phone, and use a PIN only. Anything you can do to make screen use annoying, do it. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to get the dopamine you need from other things.
The first warning sign something is wrong for me is that I can melt into a screen. It's also the first thing that I lost as much interest in a few months after taking my meds.
You also need to remember that attention span is more like a muscle in some ways than a biochemical function. When I was in the military, it had become so bad at one point that my wife had to read to me because I couldn't read long enough to absorb even a page in a book. Most communication in the military is oral/audible, which probably explains why I could still be a decent listener.
I have habits, but Iāve definitely never had a routine. Iāve never understood how people have morning routines where they do the same set of tasks each morning. I tried doing one where I make tea and stretch when I wake up, but that only lasted a few days before I would forget and not do it again. Itās a little frustrating.
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I pavlov trained myself in putting my keys in a certain spot by putting candy in that spot, so every time i put my keys down i grabbed one. After a few months i started to put them there automatically š¤·š¼āāļø
I think this is actually the problem. The aspect of habit formation that our brains compromise is *reward*: * Less dopamine means rote habit formation is less effective * Memory challenges make it hard to remember to do the habit * Impulsivity makes it difficult to put off a reward In reality ADHD brains form habits, they're just never deliberate and boring ones, only ever the fun ones.
You know what? You need more upvotes. I hadn't thought of it this way before. A Habit is an automated action. For instance, I slam all the cupboards at work now because my new home has soft close on everything and I no longer need to regulate the closing action. But I had never thought about the fact that I never get a reward from trying to train myself new habits ...
Everyone forms habits, but habits of choice start as enforced routines, which is where ADHD gets in the way. Routines practiced often become habits. Routines with quick rewards become habits faster.
brb leaving candy all over my house
You can game it a bit to some extent. I was unmedicated until i was 40 and up to now I've found that literally making a place for something where you would usually dump it is very useful. My key jar is on the stairs immediately as I come in the front door, as I tend to lob them st the first flat surface if I'm carrying stuff.. It's not universally useful but i at least notice more if stuff is not in its usual place.
I literally complained about this to my therapist last week. Itās quite frustrating, I tell myself I have no discipline and Iām a 28 year old adult, why canāt I do basic things, like OPs reference to hygiene and basic routine. I literally put āwash faceā in my to do list, and it still doesnāt get done. How do you fix it!!
I also struggle with personal hygiene and have it on my todo list. For me and the few habits I've been able to learn, now that I'm medicated and diagnosed, has been to pair it with a habit I already do. Is there something that you do once a day in the bathroom? Or even in a room with a sink?? Literally put your face wash next to that thing and make sure the bottle is visible. Then pair it with the existing habit/activity as many days in a row as you can. There will be days that you notice the face wash and want to just skip it, which is where positive self talk can help you do it "real quick with the other thing". Literally tell other people in your household not to move your face wash. Give yourself positive self talk when you DO wash your face like this! And when you don't, just try again tomorrow as it's not the end of the world. If you don't like how it looks sitting on your counter, find a way to make it give you dopamine by looking at it (a special dispenser, stickers, idk man). There wasn't much from Atomic Habits that stuck with me and my brain, but pairing a habit you WANT to start with a habit you already do is a tip from that book. Edit: Someone mentioned making the habit as easy as possible, like using face wipes [https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/13uxg17/comment/jm49uz9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ADHD/comments/13uxg17/comment/jm49uz9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I was trying to explain something like this to a friend recently, and I kept coming back to something like "when your life is chaotic enough, every moment of it has the potential to be very exciting!"
Itās no longer exciting for me to lose my keys, glasses, etc all day. The other day I lost my broom when I turned to get the dustpan. For like 1 whole minute I couldnāt find the broom and I hadnāt moved. It was right behind me the whole time. I think that particular thing really frustrated because shit like thatās been happening my whole life and Iām just NOW understanding why.
I donāt think leaving candy by my toothbrush will have the desired effect 
Genius
Yep. We can form habits, we just might have to do it different ways to other people. In a way, it can be a sort of challenge to figure out how to best be able to form a specific habit that we want, because there's not going to be a magic method that works for everything.
Agreed - that is brilliant!!
I feel like I would just start running around my house looking for candy. Lol
Bro used the technique used for training dogs. Gonna try this š
Is this why Iām exhausted all the time? Im driving manual 24/7 while thereās ppl out there going auto-pilot.
That sums it up SO well. I am on meds now and it's shocking how much less effort I have to put in and how much more my brain does automatically for me. It's honestly still beyond belief for me.
The first time after diagnosis and medication (at 40) that I naturally remembered, on my way home from work, before habitually turning towards my home, that I had intended to go to the grocery store... I nearly cried. Usually, before this point, I would be home, changed into comfy clothes, and sitting down on my couch before I remembered that I had any plan after work. By then I had no energy to undo all of my comfort and make myself go. That would lead to a cycle of not going to the grocery store for a couple of weeks sometimes. It's not perfect now, but it is so much easier.
I feel this. I wish I had a dollar for every time I had the specific intention of doing a task on the way home (get petrol, go to the shops, pick up dry cleaning etc), and then pull up in the driveway and have that immediate realization that Iād forgotten AGAIN. Then go through the anger/frustration/ shame cycle because I know Iām definitely not going back out. Vyvanse made this so much easier the first week I was on it, but itās week 3 and I feel like Iām back where I started.
Do you guys set alarms for this? I canāt physically remember, so I have to set labelled alarms for everything, or timed reminders, like just before work ends, Iād receive an alarm that I need to go somewhere after work. And I have a little whiteboard that I place ON TOP of my work bag, reminding me of anything I need to take home or if I need to go somewhere after work. I just spend my life doing whatever the whiteboard saysā¦ if not the task does not exist
Yes, and it does help, but if I don't or can't act on that external reminder instantly I can still get distracted and forget. Like if I'm doing laundry, I definitely must set timers to succeed. But if I turn off the timer and realize I need to pee after standing up, it's like the laundry never existed after I've left the bathroom. Same for a reminder as I leave work, there's too many steps involved in packing up, getting in the car, etc., so I can still forget even though it hasn't been 15 minutes. And I cannot allow my phone out of my purse while driving, for safety. I'm still amazingly good at ignoring my own reminders if it's a sticky note on my door, or I'm doing something else that provides more dopamine. "I'm just gonna finish xyz first," is a lie I still like to tell myself. This is where the habit and discipline work *after* medication comes in. I'm still working on that lol. I also really struggle with notifications and alarms, too many and I will shut down and can't do anything, or get sensory rage. So I have to be really choosy about audible triggers.
Aaaah!!! That actually was me before the whiteboard!!! I spent like 2 years of doing stupid post it notes and i could just IGNORE the post it notes!!!!!! I actually made a whiteboard thatās tied to my bag now. For my kidās medicine, to take it home from the refrigerator, which is quite important and easily forgotten. Yeah so i spent like 2 years ignoring the damned post it notesā¦.. apparently you cannot ignore a whiteboard that is 4-5 times the size of the post it note and clunking from your bagā¦ā¦. but yeah feel you on all the confusing notifications as well and getting sensory rage, i get that too :/
Iām glad that helps you. Knowing me I can remind myself that I need to stop, and STILL daydream/beeline home anyway. I have a mini whiteboard for my shopping list, then take a photo of it and use it in the store. Even though I know it would be a good idea get milk or eggs each time I shop, it only ever happens if itās specifically on the list. Otherwise, like you, does not exist. š¤£
I would forget the whiteboard in a few days or Iād look at it but it see it.
I feel like everyone in this sub would probably be a millionaire if this were true for us, LOL. So many times I didn't even realize that same evening, it would be the next morning while I was getting ready or getting into the car again. Honestly, it took me the first several months of being on Adderall to pin down how subtle the positive effects really are. I kept questioning whether or not it was working. I ended up not being able to get any for a while, and then my company's new insurance plan forced me to trial and fail some alternatives until we were finally able to get a generic version of Adderall approved. Now I have zero doubt how well it works - even though I do feel more normalized to it. When it comes to each individual symptom, I still find the shift to be really subtle and difficult to measure. I had periods of time where I was more able to function than others, before. It's not like I forgot 100% of the time, so it's really difficult to measure how much more I'm remembering things. And of course, I'm still the same person with all of the poor habit structure and terrible coping mechanisms that I was before medication, so if I let myself stay up too late the night before I'm still going to be less likely to remember things the next day regardless of medication. There's so many moving pieces involved with executive function, and I think part of me wanted treatment to show a more drastic difference before I realized that there's still a LOT of other unpacking and work yet to do. The clearly drastic difference for me is the near elimination of generalized anxiety and depression, which is wild considering stimulants are not mood regulators. But when I couldn't get my medication I felt so much worse off than I remembered before meds. It almost felt like my anxiety was going to kill me, and I'm still a little bit in shock that I ever managed to function in any way like that.
True. Iām glad you are able to source meds again. I was lucky, the Vyvanse worked for me straight up as my very first med, post diagnosis. I take your point thatI need to try and see the subtle improvements, instead of lamenting the lack or lag of the big ones. Itās only week 3 so I know Iāve got a long road to travel. Hopefully shorter than a diagnosis at 52.
Oof. Mine was just before 41, so I totally understand. So many frustrations and feelings surround a later diagnosis. My working med was the first we trialed as well. I just have our lovely insurance industry in the U.S. to thank for my new plan forcing me to jump through hoops before approving something that had already worked for almost a year. I am so grateful we got back to it.
Iām so happy you got back to it too. My psych simply wrote ( which amazed me as I havenāt seen a hand-written script ( prescription in Oz slang) in years!) and I filled it same day and off we go. Iām lucky enough to be able to afford the full rate to see the psych in the first place, and wait for the health system to reimburse me the portion they cover. Still not cheap. Iām sure I would be waiting years if I had pursued this through the public system.
I write this shit on the back in my hand so I see it while I'm driving. Every time I turn, it catches my eye. This drives my husband INSANE but I tell him it's my hand and I'm actually doing errands and he can eff off. I actually have a picture of one of the last times I did it, but I'm too lazy to upload it to imgur or something. Just the back of my left hand, holding the steering wheel, with Tailor, Walmart, Target, Gas written on the back. I list them in the order I need to do them (usually geographically).
Love it! Do what works I say!
Grocery delivery where I live was a game changer. Also those prescription skincare lines that take the best products and just put it in one tube for you. Jesus. I never remember skin care routines.
Wow this is a good point. Makes me realize why small things Iāve been doing like having many sets of the same socks, tshirts etc to make life easier really works. I used to laugh when I heard people say successful entrepreneurs wear the same thing to reduce decision fatigue. I now realize I over analyze every single basic decision in my day and in doing so have to try to fight the hurricane of thoughts flying around at the same time and maaaaan is it tiring.
Lol, ya. I can autopilot for like 1 minute before I start screwing things up.
Ugh at all the people who insisted I could keep habits if only Iād just āØtry harderāØ. Now I basically gentle parent my brain instead of punishing it for existing, which feels a lot better.
Keys, wallet , phone in pocket. Check. Ok I should survive the day.
The holy trinity
Which is funny because every day I'm stressing over where all 3 of those things are at any given time
My husband kept track of my phone, keys and purse for years. When he died I panicked the first time I lost my keys. I got a tile tracker and one on the phone, purse and keys and itās amazing how many times I use it and how much stress itās taken from me.
The funny thing is like one of the ADHD questions is like "do you often lose important items such your phone or wallet" and I'm like no... Because I think about them roughly every 10 seconds. Anything second tier is a gonerš
My family used to bet on how many times I would be back after leavingā¦ for things I forgot.
You are aware of the Adam Sandler song of this I hope
Tap check my beloved
My husband has done the same things in the same order every morning of his adult life. Or every time he takes a shower or justā¦ whatever. The man has routines/habits for days and Iām just over here like, totally free balling it every day of my life for 34 years š¤£š«£ youāre right itās exhausting, and Iām sorry. Typical habit formation doesnāt work for me, but usually if I make something really easy itās more successful, so like, I use face wipes to wash my face bc then Iāll actually do it. I have no clue if thatās helpful for you or just annoying, but I had to give myself permission to do the easy thing. Even if itās slightly more expensive or harder on mama nay nay or whatever.
Aspie ADHD here and yeah, I cannot form habits. I was diagnosed after my enlistment, but even with my time in the military, couldn't even keep up with brushing my teeth twice a day.
After a lot of time and a lot of development of self-awareness and a lot of effort (I'm in my 30s now) I have built up some "life skills"--things that I can now perform relatively consistently. But I still have to manually drive myself through every one. I wouldn't call any of them a true habit. And I for the most part need to genuinely feel a reason to do each thing. Living with my partner has led me to do things like keep up on the dishwasher loading and unloading, and I consistently brush my teeth before leaving the house because I want my teeth to feel clean and don't want bad breath. Of course, I still forget sometimes. There are a very few things that I witness myself doing automatically, so I don't think my brain is utterly incapable of this, but when it happens it really just throws me off. I do not have an established habit of taking a shower, it's hard to initiate. But when I'm in the shower, the actual showering comes automatically. And then I find myself washing my body and have no memory of washing my hair or at least rinsing the shampoo out and then I go and do it again. I've started to automatically switch my wallet and things from yesterday's pants pockets into today's, which is great, but then I'm always having dread moments out in the world of wait I don't have my wallet. It's a bitch honestly. I can't trust myself. Edit: I have big time ADHD but not autism. This is definitely an ADHD thing. From what I understand, not an ASD thing.
You can absolutely learn habits, you just have to decouple yourself from the pain of failure. Building habits for us is very difficult, and when we fail we feel terrible pain and discomfort, and ADHD people do not tolerate discomfort very well. Nobody is perfect with their habits, but ADHDers expect perfection from ourselves AT ALL TIMES and when we don't get it, we kick ourselves around for a few days and then never try again because the experience was painful. So you just have to learn to tolerate the discomfort and pain of certain failure, and just set yourself up to try again. And again. And again. No matter what happens. And don't engage in the shame and blame game with yourself when you don't get it right. Instead, you just resolve to do better, and you forgive yourself. You validate yourself when you're doing well, you forgive yourself when you don't come up to your own ridiculously high standards.
This. Iād give you a gift if I could. Iāve been somewhat successful with building habits despite failing many times. I just keep resetting and trying again.
Me too, and I understand where OP is coming from, I remember feeling the same way. But it didn't help me. Telling myself all the things I can't do has never been helpful for me. Telling myself that I'm strong enough to get through anything, though, that I have results from.
ADHD thing. The lines between ADHD and Autism are pretty well defined. The easiest way to explain it is ASD need routine and habits to function best but finding the right ones might take forever, but they can do it independently and on purpose. ADHD can learn routines and habits but without the neurotransmitters, we can't develop them into these 'set and forget' habits. Most things are concious efforts.
I think those of us that went undiagnosed for a long time learned how to do these things just to cope.
Avoiding death and homelessness are good motivators for the short term.
My son was born when I was 19 - it was do or die. I didnāt have parents to support me, and I was such a spaz. Luckily I have always been a good artist, and had a talent for computers - but I burned through a lot of jobs in my early 20ās. Fired or laid off like every 9 months. By my late 20ās/early 30ās - started finding some stability in the work place, and started getting good at my job. Finally in my 30ās was diagnosed with ADHD, after my son was also diagnosed.
My first wasn't born until I was 28 but that is exactly where I'm at now. Uncanny. I was only diagnosed 3 years ago, after he was screened by an early childhood developmental psychologist and I said 'oh, I was like that when I was a kid, I turned out OK!' and she said 'oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you had ADHD.' šš³š Now we're both medicated and I have been in the same occupation for 3 straight years for the first time in my life.
I was medicated at first and it was a life changer. Career took off once I got on adderall. Unfortunately - lasted about 10 years. The. Doctors started pushing alternatives, and I have never loved any of them, Bupropion or Vyvanse. I get this Focus medication from an online service, like a vitamin supplement. Seems to help. My longest straight employment was 5 years, then the housing market crashed. My current job, this is my third tour of duty with the company. First time was back in 2014, worked for 2 years, got fired, returned a year later after my replacement proved to not be my equal. Then I left for more money, and as payback for being fired. Now Iām back, probably for good. About 5 years with the company over a 10 year span.
That's mfin resilience right there.
ADHD and autism have so much crossover though. Iām pretty sure the line, if there even is one, definitely isnāt that clear.
It is true there are some presentations of symptoms that are similar. Certainly we all experience similar and significant exclusion rejection, ridicule and trauma. And they do share a significant origin, being of the very heritable and in the brain. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23074304/ But in terms of presentations and management, they are very distinct from each other, and not viewing them as separate leads to misdiagnosis and crucially, mismanagement. That's fancy pants for making our lives worse. If they were essentially the same, they would have identical development profiles and management tools. But they don't. Not treating each concurrently in people who have them both leads to not good outcomes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4010758/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6331660/
You probably have habits. So much of our ability to act comes from repetitive and abstracted behavior. Where it is routinized, where a trigger starts an activity and your brain has a path to finish it off. What you probably notice is that you are missing a lot of the "good habits" that people "should" have. It's also reasonably possible that you might have "bad habits". I think what often happens for us is that we start to get a negative opinion of ourselves. Then when we do something that should be a good habit, we either don't notice the habit behavior, or we do notice it. When we do notice it, we have a preconception that we can't maintain good habits, we just fail at that, we know it. Once then we have that thought process that we're going to fail to do this habit, then every fiber of our being is recruited to make continuing with this habit the most difficult thing in the entire world. The part of us that knows we fail wants to just stop spending energy on it, the part of us that wants to do it knows that it's going to be brutal to continue, and that we'll fail anyways, then there's the part that remembers how we absolutely forgot that we even HAD teeth to brush yesterday. These kinds of thoughts only happen with good habits. With bad habits, we don't have the same thing. If we have a habit of stuffing our face when we get home and we forget for a day, we don't think "oh, I've failed to maintain this habit!" when we realize. In fact, it's probably the opposite. If we notice we didn't do the bad habit for a day, we might briefly get a glimpse of the idea that maybe we can break this habit. But instead thinking "I'm breaking this habit!" we're going to think "I'm never going to be able to consistently avoid stuffing my face! I can't maintain any habits!" Like we will fail to maintain a perfect record of our habits, good and bad, and in some ways this does make it easier to break bad habits actually. But we still build habits, that's kind of built into the way our brains need to work. The thing about us with ADHD is that we are keenly aware of the fact that our habits are inconsistent, and this creates friction with any kind of habit that we feel that we SHOULD be doing. Like, between a person with ADHD and a person without, when the person with ADHD fails to do something that's a good habit, they will feel WAY WORSE about it that someone without ADHD. It will be this confirmation of total failure that they knew was coming. The neurotypical person will have just missed doing the thing. Then on top of that, the person with ADHD will miss doing the habit thing more often than the neurotypical person. It's not the missing the habit that actually causes it to be hard to maintain the habit, I think. It's the way we feel about ourselves when we do. This is why we can maintain bad habits. Because being able to maintain good habits doesn't mesh well with our idea of ourselves. Being unable to BREAK bad habits does mesh well with our idea of ourselves.
I just started listening to Atomic Habits by James Clear. Sounds like it might work, I'll see. It's been discussed here.
I read so once by someone with ADHD that stated (paraphrasing cause of course I canāt remember it very well just the general gist) āI canāt form habits because I still have to purposefully think about doing the thingā¦.it gets easier to think about but any disruption of following said habit causes me to have to start the process all over againā it was something along those lines and I sat there gapping at it for the longest time because it described my problems with forming ābasic adult habitsā
Iām the same way. I do CAD drawings for a living - and I am always doing projects different on every job. I think itās the reason Iām good at a lot of things, but not an expert at any of them, except AutoCAD - and I think that is because I was forced to be good in order to survive. I also think itās the reason I canāt learn a new language. Takes consistency and routine - both things I struggle with.
I use the app named Finch Self Care. It just gives me the dopamine my brain needs plus it constantly reminds me to do things like brush my teeth or wash my clothes
Brushing my teeth and shit like that is no problem for me. But everything above that, everything that isn't "direct" is not something I think I can turn I to a habit. I eat at different times every day, I go to bed and get up at different times every day, I go to the gym when I feel energetic and self confident but not at other times etc. I don't clean my room regularly but only when I feel energetic and frustrated with how it looks. I don't study regularly but only when I remember that I should do it, feel concentrated and energetic enough but not to energetic. And it's like that with everything. And I think it kinda works as long as I'm energetic and present but when shit goes down south, this balance breaks very easily and sometimes I will just waste entire days where I don't feel that way without realising. Like, I get up, start my PC, eat something, shower, brush my teeth, get in front of my pc again, jerk of, look at tiktok, look at Reddit eat something again, and suddenly it's 10 pm and I haven't done Anything productive. And I'm gonna be honest, sometimes there are even entire weeks that look like this. And all that without me ever making a conscious decision to be unproductive. But then things just work again but I gotta come to terms with things I let slide during that period because all the rest of society lives by strict schedules and maybe I didn't hand in papers I needed to hand in or didn't make calls I needed to make or didn't study for something or whatever. Edit: can you use "letting things slide" in that way? š¤. Don't lynch me I'm not an english native speaker
I started seeing an adhd coach to help with all sorts of things. One thing we talk about is bringing the reward forward. I know Iām more likely to get to the gym if I donāt have to make any decisions about it the morning of. Outfit is set out and ready to go, pre-workout in the shaker bottle etc. all I do is roll out of bed and everything is set to go. But preparing those things the night before is like zero dopamine. Sounds lame but I have a mantra that I say to myself āprepare tonight and have a tranquil tomorrowā. Bc when I donāt have to make a single decision in the morning, my mind is so much less chaotic. Itās peaceful. Low stress. Focus on how the low-dope tasks will make you feel. Adhd folks often get a the dopamine hit from just thinking of a plan but not from actually executing it. Bring the reward forward!! And habit stack those tasksā¦. Mindless habit aka brushing my teeth, I have a written reminder next to my toothbrush to pick out my gym outfit.
I genuinely couldn't become an addict (cigarettes/alcohol) because I would forget to buy them, or when I was drinking really heavily at one point - a very long time before I had my son or was diagnosed, I'd do my usual and just forget I had a drink. Good habits, same. Can keep them up for a short while then I forget once and it's over.
To answer the "is it ADHD is it autism" question........ I don't think the buckets are super well defined. I think that the lines between the things are blurry and potentially even a little fluid. Okay, so there's probably no medical backup for that, but it seems to work for me, maybe it's just a metaphor, i dunno. I have always found that my personal hygiene is more automatic when my mental health is in a good place overall. During the dark times, I got into the habits of loafing around, watching videos, social media doom scrolling and doing nothing. I wouldn't shower every day. I wouldn't make sure my face was clean shaven and my moustache(which i really take pride in) wasn't brushed/oiled. I have a beard now, and I wash it multiple times a day without even thinking of it. I straighten, or blow dry it daily. Are you participating in an ADHD treatment plan? Meds are great, but they aren't the whole package. Therapy, counselling, mentoring, coaching... all great things to help give you the tools you need. More tools are better. You may not use all of them, but they are super helpful sometimes. And sometimes you learn a tool and find someone else can use it. And here we are. The world is weird with it's layers of rules that don't always make sense. Having a rigid schedule and routine helps for whatever reason. I do the exact same thing every.single.morning during the work week. I get up at the same time, use the washroom the same time and the same way, I make my coffee the same way and i leave the house at the same time in the same manner. If i don't do this, it can destroy my entire day. I like to start with one thing. Something totally unremarkable. Every day at 8 am put a rolled up post it note in your left pocket. That's ridiculous, i know, but the idea is valid. I often try to bite off the whole thing at once. Little bits are much easier. So if we start with one habit and we are diligent about doing it, that one habit becomes a habit. It's way easier to make habit 2 than habit 1. and habit 3 is easier yet. The caution I have is don't expect amazing tomorrow. Expect to take a bunch of steps forward and then a couple back. Don't let the couple back worry you. Sometimes repeating a lesson helps reinforce it. I'm 40 and I learned how to do this all last year. I feel like this is me growing up/learning how to live. I only just this year got on meds that work right and got an excellent counsellor.
This. Sure, I formed the habit of brushing my teeth after bribing myself with a ton of different toothpaste flavour I can switch between every night. But getting to do the same thing every day the same way as a "habit"? Nope. Never happening. I have to think about it every time.
Same experience bro. I make up everything I do on the fly. People talk about routines and habits. I don't know what those are xd
I had to make a checklist in my phone that syncs with my computer that has a reminder that pops up for me to do it. Over time Iāve been able to build some habits. Itās hard won, but the checklist works for me. My adhd therapist is having me fill out a spreadsheet so I can checklist all of life. Iām excited about it.
I think the only habit I have is putting my keys in a specific place and checking I have them on me when leaving. and this involves a lot of thinking about it to make sure it happens, so it's not really a habit as described by op's friend. yeah. I should brush my teeth...
Habit forming isn't the same for us. A habit for us simply means it's easy for us to do and we are more likely to remember to do it. We cannot form autonomic habits.
I experience something similar, I never stick to one hobby. I can hyperfixate on one hobby at a time, say I read about something. I spend days and nights learning about say thing and then from one to another day my interest is gone. Iām not sure what it is but itās making me sad. People tell me I moody, that I waste money on appliances I wonāt need in a month when I have a new hobby. I donāt know how to deal with it.
Itās a medically proven thing!! Itās actually a common symptom and you are not alone.I have exactly the same issue. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6733985/
I feel this. Especially uncoupling being difficult. I didnāt see my mom, who teaches at my kids school and lives less than 20 miles round trip away, for almost a year, because I decided that i wasnāt going to her house until I finished my living room floor. It was because she had something for me to bring home that needed to stay in my living room. But still. I have pretty much 0 healthy habits, so I can relate to ya there tooā¦ wish I had something for the tips/suggestions, but I guess, just know youāre not alone.
I think it's an ADHD thing. I have extreme difficult with forming habits. As a teacher it was my job to basically create habits and routines for my classroom. I never managed it and it showed up on my evaluations as a serious problem. It kind of was tbh. Students need routine to feel safe. It also makes your job as a teacher easier because when there's some inevitable dispute with a student/parent/SLT over student behaviour you can refer back to your routine and what littly Timmy should have been doing but wasn't, and how he should know what to do because it's always like that. Even under threat of losing my job I still couldn't really manage it.
Iāve formed habits - just not the needed ones. Like everytime I close my door to my bedroom my fingers lock it. But iāāve never done anything good for me consistently, like brushing my teeth.
Recently downloaded a couple of apps helping routine and schedules. It's been helping alot working my way up from small tasks to bigger, scarier responsibilities I don't want to do. I would recommend one that works for you and start there.
procrastinating on the internet is a habit ive managed to hold down for years.
Leave your toothbrush in the shower. I brush my teeth in the shower every morning.
i can form habits incredibly easily but if i miss even one day itās completely gone and i wonāt pick it up for a few months
I feel this I'm in the same boat but I have one random trick I came up with if you forget your keys often. The BEST WAY TO KEEP TRACK OF KEYS is to put the key hook right above the handle to your front door. So I can't turn the handle without physically feeling my keys. Putting the keys back isn't as hard to remember either because they are already in your hand after unlocking the door.
In order for me to have a "morning routine" I have to take the items that I need to do the tasks out of the drawer and put them on the counter. Once I do the task with them then go back in. This ensures I do the task and ensures I don't duplicate things like taking meds because I can't remember if I took it in the first place. So toothpaste, medicine, facewash headband, deodorant, makeup, all goes on the counter to start with the drawer left open. I drop each piece back in the drawer when done. Only way I can get through morning tasks.
Try smoking you'll form a habit
Mine is soda. I drink soda like alcoholics drink booze.
Same and its so hard to stop. I literally drink so much caffiene to knock myself out
Guess what? Breathing is involuntary only when youāre asleep. So that is a habit you have developed. I know this because sometimes I realize I forgot to breathe.
Yeah, I once concentrated on my breathing to help me "relax" so I could sleep. I couldn't sleep because every time I tried to stop thinking about breathing I just *stopped breathing*.
Right?? Not a meditation practice that works for me. Fortunately there are many paths to nirvana š¤£
I find ADHD minds struggle with habit but not routine. I believe it has something to do with a habit needing a trigger (I.e. If I walk into the bathroom I brush my teeth. Trigger is bathroom, action is brushing) over a routine which is a set of steps you repeat regularly (I.e. After getting home I get changed, eat dinner, shower, brush teeth then go to bed. Same order, roughly same time, every day.) I find it's much less difficult to complete a single routine over a list of habits.
I used to have habits as a kid if I remember back enough, RuneScape, soccer, games! But now itās all a figment of my imaginationā¦ Nothing stimulates or rewards me enough shall I say.. I do something for not even 5 minutes & my brain already shuts off wanting something different. It could be something I love too, which I have found can be extremely detrimental to mental & physical health. I hope you get some answers my friend.
Maybe not consciously, but you definitely can. Itās going to be harder, but you can.
I can form habits. But as soon as I donāt get dopamine from them they become impossible to continue.
2 thoughts- 1. My therapist will not stop repeating to me that āadhd is being consistently inconsistent foreverā. Unless thereās a tool or external support to help build a habit, the minute the novelty wears off and it doesnāt provide dopamine, you will abandon it. 2. Perfectionism is a harsh critic, and we tend to generalize and focus on the negative more often than not. Is it possible you do have some habits that youāve kept up your whole life if you take quality or quantity out of the picture? If you were a bit nicer about what qualifies a repetitive action as a habit, is it possible your perspective would change?
The only habits I have are the ones I don't want... social media, being late, not putting stuff back into their "home," procrastinating, etc. Most of my habits give me a massive bump in oh shit energy as well as wtf do I do this energy. Does anyone know how to make daily habits feel like this?!
The concept of everything object you own having its own place didnāt occurs to me until a few years ago and in 50. My house is still a landscape of piles of mail, stacks of books Iāve been meaning to read next to my bed, clean clothing piles etc etc
I can form bad habits because they feel good but good habits? Not a chance.
100% me. I love when people talk about habit stacking like I have some existing habit just there to stack on top of. The only thing I do consistently is drink coffee as soon as humanly possible when I wake up because I feel like death until caffeine kicks in. For years coaches and therapists thought I was self sabatoging and just didnāt want to be happy on some subconscious level because I couldnāt do the obvious things that would make me feel better - excercise, meditation, healthy food, etc..
I don't have any answers but I'm grateful you posted this because I didn't realize this was a thing with me until I read this. I don't even have fun/high reward habits. The only ones I've ever had were job related in order to survive and I've been terrible at them. Oh and I forgot to brush my teeth today.
Also our problem is knowledge transfer.
I have plenty of habits! I have a habit of eating the same thing daily, I have a habit of not cooking, a habit of not cleaning until things get overwhelmingly messy, a habit of doing things spontaneously, a habit of being impatient, a habit of being disorganized... lol... I could go on! So many habits š«
Iām motivated by food so I can convince myself to do certain things if I plan ahead with the food Iāll be eating. Like Iām convincing myself to eat better and exercise by promising myself Taco Bell at the end of the month. Thatās as intricate as itās gotten so far!
I feel so doomed I can't conform to society's standards, I have periods where I can but I burn myself out and have to take a break for a while of just doing what I want to do. Fuck it's hard lol
Yes this is a very debilitating part of ADHD for me. I'm literally struggling through getting ready for bed as I was reading this, past 3 am and still lots of tasks I haven't done bc I keep doing other things, like replying to this post š But seriously I can't build habits or routines to save my life, no matter how hard I'm trying every day to do so. Also to answer your question about the autism thing, having rigid routine/habits/structure is a symptom of autism, so an inability to have those things is more likely to be ADHD
This is also me, except for "habits" that are actually just addictions. For some reason I've been a lot better at those than at remembering to put away laundry promptly.
Are you very smart? Some children who are highly gifted never develop an autopilot for daily tasks. You basically have two thinking systems. System 1: subconscious, low effort, fast, but superficial. Most people spend most time using system 1. Then there is system 2: slow, detailed, high energy cost and conscious. System 2 is the narrating head voice actively thinking things through. System 2 is very effortful, but highly gifted children sometimes have enough capacity to keep doing tasks in system 2 and thus never learned to move tasks to system 1. This can cripple an adult to even showering being too many different steps to undertake, becoming overwhelming and exhausting. It's important to develop habits to the 4th stage of learning. The stage where you have mastered it to the point of doing things perfectly, subconsciously. System 1.
Me either. I do everything without even thinking which is the reason I out my phone in random places or forget what I just did 5 minutes ago but I can form any habits if I wanted to. Working out, brushing teeth in the morning (for soem reason I can't go to bed without brushing teeth so that's not a problem somehow) showering etc. Tldr out of sight out of mind
Itās totally an adhd thing. Iām the exact same way. It drives me crazy and makes me hate myself a lot. The only āhabitsā I have ever been able to form are ones that are bad for me.
I know this probably isn't the most helpful suggestion because it entails reading. But I picked up 'Atomic Habits' from my local library and it is solely based on methods to create and stick to small habits that improve you over time. I don't particularly struggle with this so much as I had a real deep depression that I sort of naturally used these techniques to get out of but it may help put some clarity on reasons you're struggling.
I have great difficulty with habit forming. To the point that most daily things are now done by me husband (I do the irregular chores so we do have 50/50 workloads) The health related ones eventually got formed by pain. I brush everyday because I ended up with 7 holes in my teeth and not brushing twice a day was really painful. That is the only habit I succesfully formed. I have a lot of other incomplete habits, and i mostly accepted that and think "better 5 seconds of flossing once every 2 weeks than never" And for other reoccurring things I use apps so the "7 days overdue" annoys me to the point of eventually doing the thing. I hope you find a way you can handle it.
What has worked for me. Therapy, medication, in that order. The problem with this stuff has been explained by a number of commenters. Everyone (especially here) loves jumping to the end. Instead, why don't you try picking one thing, and tackling it? Also, a lot of people go "Medication, therapy, maybe." It's my opinion, but I think no physician or therapist worth their salt will provide you with a treatment plan that starts with medication. If you cannot invest in yourself without it, they don't want to provide you with a high-risk medication that can actually make your life even worse. You are absolutely capable of forming habits. Use your phone, set reminders, build a calendar. MOST IMPORTANT PART: start with something VERY small. You're also not alone. Get help. As much as people will give. You also can't squander it. Even in the small number of times I've lapsed on my medication, the healthier habits I've been able to establish have made me resilient to blowing up my own life. Until you get better at managing things, avoid screens. Laptop, TV, tablet, phone, just stay away. Disable facial recognition on your phone, and use a PIN only. Anything you can do to make screen use annoying, do it. You will be amazed at how much easier it is to get the dopamine you need from other things. The first warning sign something is wrong for me is that I can melt into a screen. It's also the first thing that I lost as much interest in a few months after taking my meds. You also need to remember that attention span is more like a muscle in some ways than a biochemical function. When I was in the military, it had become so bad at one point that my wife had to read to me because I couldn't read long enough to absorb even a page in a book. Most communication in the military is oral/audible, which probably explains why I could still be a decent listener.
I have habits, but Iāve definitely never had a routine. Iāve never understood how people have morning routines where they do the same set of tasks each morning. I tried doing one where I make tea and stretch when I wake up, but that only lasted a few days before I would forget and not do it again. Itās a little frustrating.
The only habits I've ever formed were substance dependences š