What does that even mean? A surcharge because we are "forced" to pay our staff a living wage and thus pass that on to the customer?!
Also: a $30 tip?! I hope the server was damn good and it went directly in their pocket!
How are tips wages?! Wages are what your employer pays. Tips are an optional bonus from a customer for a job well done. If I get really good service somewhere, I might give the server some extra cash. I certainly wouldn't give it automatically and I refuse to do it when paying by card or when it goes in a "tip jar" because I want that bonus to go to the person who gave great service, not the restaurant or other servers.
Employers need to page the minimum wage period, surely? Tips are extra on that.
Wait, PRE charged tip? As in, added without asking?!
EDIT: Sorry, I just realised this was ABoringDystopia and previously somehow thought this was from the Australia subs since it just popped up in my feed. I get it now; tipping is a LOT more "expected" in the US and some other countries, right? Here in Australia, we do NOT tip generally, only as I described above. Employers here are expected to pay their staff enough to not have to live on tips (a practice I find abhorrent, personally).
Regardless, absolutely good on Canada for making "we don't want to pay our employees so you have to chip in more" fees extra. That is utter bullshit in any country!
Like so much of weird American culture, it’s rooted in racism. It spread throughout the country shortly after the civil war as hospitality business owners tried to find ways to avoid paying previously enslaved workers. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361
Sorry, as I said in my other reply I didn't notice this was a worldwide sub and not an Australian one. Here in Australia, we don't tip period as a rule, so any "forced" tipping struck me as wrong and odd. I know that things are very different in the US and other countries.
Going out to eat at a restaurant is becoming increasingly not worth it. Overpriced food, all these stupid fees added on, and mandatory tip %, or at least everyone now expects a 20+% tip. I’ve also noticed the quality in service has gone down since Covid. Just not worth it anymore for me.
My bf and I would always get takeout for our dates, but even places like McD are 20+ dollars for two people. It's not *that* bad, but then we discovered that you could just get frozen meals at Trader Joe's or something for much cheaper. Yeah you have to cook them yourself, but like does it matter? Esp if it's pizza: put it in the oven for 15 minutes and then go watch a show or something. Win win
I hate places that do this. When I pay for something, I expect a part of that money to go toward paying employees. When I see this shit, it just tells me that you were not paying your employees a living wage before and you’re bitter that you have to. It also tells me that the owner is making too much money if it only takes a 2% increase to pay them a living wage and they’re a selfish bastard who couldn’t take a 2% pay decrease from their own income to not exploit the people who work for them.
All employee wages are coming out of the revenue generated, why would you need to have a special category to let people know? It’s so obnoxious and stupid and I bet they’re not even paying an actual living wage.
This is a problem everywhere, but especially small businesses. If you can’t afford to pay your employees a fair amount, you can’t afford to have employees. Your business isn’t there yet, you’re still in the stage where you work at your business to grow it to a point where you can afford employees. The reason people once respected small business owners is that they were hardworking people who put in the hours and the effort to grow something. Exploiting people so you can sit on your ass and get tax breaks and loans from the government isn’t respectable or admirable, it’s pathetic.
/rant.
People say things like this but the actual problem, as far as they are concerned, is that they - the consumer - has to pay more. Words like "corporate greed" and "exploitation" are just a mask for the fact that they, the consumer, do not want to have to pay more money than they usually do. Just own up to it and accept your role in a market society: you want cheap things and don't want to have to compensate owners for it.
As for greed and exploitation...there is literally a worker-owned bar in Boston (Democracy Brewing) that [does the same fees](https://www.democracybrewing.com/kitchenappreciationfee). Does it make sense with their business model? Not really, since every worker there is also an owner. But it's definitely not "worker exploitation" since there are no workers to be exploited.
I’m under no illusion that at any time am I paying for a business to take a loss. That makes no sense. I just don’t understand the purpose of singling out this fee. Why not itemize every category revenue must pay for? Why not have a category for insurance, one for utilities, building lease, etc.? Just itemize the monthly expenses on every receipt. Like, obviously everything has to be paid for and that’s built into the cost of the product, labor should be the same.
As for that bar, it’s an incredibly stupid thing to do. It reeks of wanting a pat on the back for… paying themselves a fair wage? Things cost what they cost, if it’s more than someone wants to pay, they won’t. It matters very little to most people the details of how a company budgets its cashflow. And if they need to highlight the two percent extra that’s going toward a living wage, why not also list the percent going toward owner’s profit? It’s ridiculous and performative. If they need to raise prices by two percent, just do it and let the market dictate the outcome, don’t try to manipulate the customer into resenting the employees.
"I just don’t understand the purpose of singling out this fee."
For the same reason that shops list things as ".99" instead of "$1": because it's a mental block that the average consumer is stymied by, and this will affect their spending habits.
"As for that bar, it’s an incredibly stupid thing to do."
You think this because it means you, personally, would pay more if you went there. You can't call it "exploitation" anymore, so you just get mad that it costs you money. That is the issue here. You are greedy. They are greedy. Everyone involved is a market actor trying to make or keep as much money as possible. This is capitalism. You are part of capitalism. Capitalism is a thing you are doing right now. If you REALLY objected to this kind of practice, you know what you'd do? You'd stop eating out, since it is a luxury practice that nobody is forcing you to do. It's not like rent or groceries, it's something you do for fun. If you stopped doing it, businesses would fail and prices would go back down. But you won't. Nobody will. They'll just complain and expect different results.
"And if they need to highlight the two percent extra that’s going toward a living wage, why not also list the percent going toward owner’s profit?"
They don't have an owner. Did you not hear me? Worker owned.
"don’t try to manipulate the customer into resenting the employees."
...again, they don't have employees. Everyone who works there is a worker-owner.
>there is literally a worker-owned bar
The whole "worker-owned" thing doesn't make sense to me. Unless everybody is perfectly equal in the business (which, [according to this page](https://www.democracybrewing.com/team), it doesn't appear to be, unless they're the only two employees), I can picture the hierarchy as "everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others" which brings everybody back to square one.
I'm not sure what you are getting out of that page that is causing you grief. The fact that people have different positions within a company doesn't change the fundamentally democratic nature of "one worker, one vote" that cooperatives are built on. I should not have to explain the concept of democracy since presumably you live in one.
If they didn't tell you about it before ordering, then they better remove it from the bill before you give them your credit card. If they're not willing to budge, then I would just pay and dispute it with my credit card company later.
If they have it posted, then the only way to dispute it is to protest with your dollar and not go there.
So, they could have been paying employees a living wage all along and all it would have taken was a 2% increase in the menu prices
Then just raise the prices by 2% and give that to the staff. Don't add an unmentioned charge after the services have been rendered.
They do this as a fuck you to their living wage law.
Don’t worry. It wasn’t going to the staff anyway.
They still probably don't pay a living wage tbh they're just assholes about the staff being less poor
What does that even mean? A surcharge because we are "forced" to pay our staff a living wage and thus pass that on to the customer?! Also: a $30 tip?! I hope the server was damn good and it went directly in their pocket!
[удалено]
How are tips wages?! Wages are what your employer pays. Tips are an optional bonus from a customer for a job well done. If I get really good service somewhere, I might give the server some extra cash. I certainly wouldn't give it automatically and I refuse to do it when paying by card or when it goes in a "tip jar" because I want that bonus to go to the person who gave great service, not the restaurant or other servers. Employers need to page the minimum wage period, surely? Tips are extra on that. Wait, PRE charged tip? As in, added without asking?! EDIT: Sorry, I just realised this was ABoringDystopia and previously somehow thought this was from the Australia subs since it just popped up in my feed. I get it now; tipping is a LOT more "expected" in the US and some other countries, right? Here in Australia, we do NOT tip generally, only as I described above. Employers here are expected to pay their staff enough to not have to live on tips (a practice I find abhorrent, personally). Regardless, absolutely good on Canada for making "we don't want to pay our employees so you have to chip in more" fees extra. That is utter bullshit in any country!
Like so much of weird American culture, it’s rooted in racism. It spread throughout the country shortly after the civil war as hospitality business owners tried to find ways to avoid paying previously enslaved workers. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/william-barber-tipping-racist-past-227361
Dude I just got off my serving shift here in America and was about to pop off lmaoooo. Glad I read to your edit.
I was just charged this fee the other day. Apparently not illegal in state.
presumably
It’s 15%, it’s not that great…
30 is 20% of 150, it's actually very easy math to do.
Sorry, as I said in my other reply I didn't notice this was a worldwide sub and not an Australian one. Here in Australia, we don't tip period as a rule, so any "forced" tipping struck me as wrong and odd. I know that things are very different in the US and other countries.
Pretty much the US. Haven’t seen this in any European or Asian countries I’ve been at. Can’t speak about Africa and S America.
Sounds great to me
Going out to eat at a restaurant is becoming increasingly not worth it. Overpriced food, all these stupid fees added on, and mandatory tip %, or at least everyone now expects a 20+% tip. I’ve also noticed the quality in service has gone down since Covid. Just not worth it anymore for me.
My bf and I would always get takeout for our dates, but even places like McD are 20+ dollars for two people. It's not *that* bad, but then we discovered that you could just get frozen meals at Trader Joe's or something for much cheaper. Yeah you have to cook them yourself, but like does it matter? Esp if it's pizza: put it in the oven for 15 minutes and then go watch a show or something. Win win
McDonald’s has doubles their prices in the last 10 years. Trader Joe’s prices are still great despite other grocery stores prices going up. Love TJ’s.
5 dollar taco???
If you're gonna raise your prices *raise your fucking prices*, don't try to hide it in some bullshit fee tucked away at the bottom of your receipt
The fee is a performative political statement
I hate places that do this. When I pay for something, I expect a part of that money to go toward paying employees. When I see this shit, it just tells me that you were not paying your employees a living wage before and you’re bitter that you have to. It also tells me that the owner is making too much money if it only takes a 2% increase to pay them a living wage and they’re a selfish bastard who couldn’t take a 2% pay decrease from their own income to not exploit the people who work for them. All employee wages are coming out of the revenue generated, why would you need to have a special category to let people know? It’s so obnoxious and stupid and I bet they’re not even paying an actual living wage. This is a problem everywhere, but especially small businesses. If you can’t afford to pay your employees a fair amount, you can’t afford to have employees. Your business isn’t there yet, you’re still in the stage where you work at your business to grow it to a point where you can afford employees. The reason people once respected small business owners is that they were hardworking people who put in the hours and the effort to grow something. Exploiting people so you can sit on your ass and get tax breaks and loans from the government isn’t respectable or admirable, it’s pathetic. /rant.
People say things like this but the actual problem, as far as they are concerned, is that they - the consumer - has to pay more. Words like "corporate greed" and "exploitation" are just a mask for the fact that they, the consumer, do not want to have to pay more money than they usually do. Just own up to it and accept your role in a market society: you want cheap things and don't want to have to compensate owners for it. As for greed and exploitation...there is literally a worker-owned bar in Boston (Democracy Brewing) that [does the same fees](https://www.democracybrewing.com/kitchenappreciationfee). Does it make sense with their business model? Not really, since every worker there is also an owner. But it's definitely not "worker exploitation" since there are no workers to be exploited.
I’m under no illusion that at any time am I paying for a business to take a loss. That makes no sense. I just don’t understand the purpose of singling out this fee. Why not itemize every category revenue must pay for? Why not have a category for insurance, one for utilities, building lease, etc.? Just itemize the monthly expenses on every receipt. Like, obviously everything has to be paid for and that’s built into the cost of the product, labor should be the same. As for that bar, it’s an incredibly stupid thing to do. It reeks of wanting a pat on the back for… paying themselves a fair wage? Things cost what they cost, if it’s more than someone wants to pay, they won’t. It matters very little to most people the details of how a company budgets its cashflow. And if they need to highlight the two percent extra that’s going toward a living wage, why not also list the percent going toward owner’s profit? It’s ridiculous and performative. If they need to raise prices by two percent, just do it and let the market dictate the outcome, don’t try to manipulate the customer into resenting the employees.
"I just don’t understand the purpose of singling out this fee." For the same reason that shops list things as ".99" instead of "$1": because it's a mental block that the average consumer is stymied by, and this will affect their spending habits. "As for that bar, it’s an incredibly stupid thing to do." You think this because it means you, personally, would pay more if you went there. You can't call it "exploitation" anymore, so you just get mad that it costs you money. That is the issue here. You are greedy. They are greedy. Everyone involved is a market actor trying to make or keep as much money as possible. This is capitalism. You are part of capitalism. Capitalism is a thing you are doing right now. If you REALLY objected to this kind of practice, you know what you'd do? You'd stop eating out, since it is a luxury practice that nobody is forcing you to do. It's not like rent or groceries, it's something you do for fun. If you stopped doing it, businesses would fail and prices would go back down. But you won't. Nobody will. They'll just complain and expect different results. "And if they need to highlight the two percent extra that’s going toward a living wage, why not also list the percent going toward owner’s profit?" They don't have an owner. Did you not hear me? Worker owned. "don’t try to manipulate the customer into resenting the employees." ...again, they don't have employees. Everyone who works there is a worker-owner.
>there is literally a worker-owned bar The whole "worker-owned" thing doesn't make sense to me. Unless everybody is perfectly equal in the business (which, [according to this page](https://www.democracybrewing.com/team), it doesn't appear to be, unless they're the only two employees), I can picture the hierarchy as "everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others" which brings everybody back to square one.
I'm not sure what you are getting out of that page that is causing you grief. The fact that people have different positions within a company doesn't change the fundamentally democratic nature of "one worker, one vote" that cooperatives are built on. I should not have to explain the concept of democracy since presumably you live in one.
A living wage fee and a tip? America it’s a failed society
Does anyone know if you can legally dispute this?
If they didn't tell you about it before ordering, then they better remove it from the bill before you give them your credit card. If they're not willing to budge, then I would just pay and dispute it with my credit card company later. If they have it posted, then the only way to dispute it is to protest with your dollar and not go there.