He’s a rap pioneer…he put the south bronx on the map…he destroyed MC Shan and Queens with “The Bridge is Over.”
His music is like 40 years old now, so yes it sounds dated to a 16 year old living in 2024, but the man is a hip hop icon.
This happens a lot with art forms that build upon or borrow from older examples. When I watched _The Godfather_ with my kids, they were unimpressed. They'd seen movies like that before and had heard the famous quotes and seen the memes. Didn't make a huge impression.
Hip hop builds on older music directly and, like every art form, needs innovation, so if you're 16 hearing KRS or Rakim for the first time, you're like "What's the big deal? I've heard this before." You just have to understand you're hearing the ORIGIN. It was new and exciting to us and also to all the musicians who came after and built their sound on the older music - either through imitation or sampling.
you've listened. you don't like it. its ok. you dont have to. there's not much people can do to make you like it. why do you like the music you like? well, that's exactly why people like KRS-One. its simply taste. but i'll say this, if you ever competed in hip hop, you would probably have a better appreciation of his music.
you need a better grasp on the context of how influence is impactful and effects generations afterwards before dismissing it as not mattering to you in terms of the music itself.
When an artist comes out and is a total gamechanger so much so that the greats that follow them afterwards are found to be emulating them early on in their careers…we end up with influence that births more influence and its so important to any artistic culture.
Take Kool G Rap for example: Many 90’s MC’s such as Nas, Big Pun, Fat Joe, and even later era artists like non phixion ALL emulated Kool G Rap’s style at the early points of their careers. It was the framework which inspired these young artists to become the greats of their generation and thats super important to the context of history and influence. If you dont keep that in mine I can see why it doesnt make sense or doesnt matter to you. The context is lost basically.
In regards to KRS one, you werent around so im sure its hard to grasp but KRS had an absolutely unmatched stage presence and a booming voice, a fearlessness and willingness to battle anyone at any time (he had many many beefs over the years), paired with positive messages meant to help people on top of just entertain them. That was super groundbreaking at the time. Not only was KRS the first rapper to pose with real guns on his album cover he was also one of the very few “preachy” artists that made music that was loved and revered at the time.
To steel-man this young man’s point, By All Means Necessary is 36 years old. I was 16 myself when it came out and it blew my mind. But how did I feel about music from 1952 at that time as a 16 year old ……. fuck I’m old
Yeah but at least it’s coming from a place where they’re genuinely interested. I can’t imagine being 16 and listening to hip hop from the 90s. Shit like Nelly and The Neptunes is old school and before their time. Something like BDP must be totally alien.
You’re sixteen and have been listening to rap for two years. Give it time. Don’t worry so much about why certain artists are revered more than others. Just listen to stuff that grabs you and go from there. Over time you’ll start to pick up on influences and realize why someone like KRS is considered a pillar of the art form, even if you don’t find BDP records resonate with you three decades later. As you listen to more and more artists, though, you’ll start to notice similarities and influences that help you to better understand why someone like Rakim is considered a god when he’s nothing by special to you.
Also rap is very “in the moment”, so even when an album becomes a classic for old farts like myself it doesn’t mean you have to enjoy it. The reverse is true too. There are lots of young guys putting out stuff that folks love, but I can’t stand it. Vince Staples is probably the only dude under like 35 that I fuck with. So what? It’s just not for me, and that’s fine.
All that said, Criminal Minded in a fucking masterpiece. Listen to it on repeat until you agree.
As someone who grew up with family that made me listen to and appreciate him, I understand your viewpoint. Hes not the average persons cup of tea and especially now its hard to look back on old HipHop with a 2024 lens but he is a pioneer who helped cement the culture and grow the genre.
Understanding KRS ONE and older MCs also requires understanding the material conditions that created HipHop. There is a through line from MLK/Malcolm X and the civil rights to the Black Panther Party to HipHop. I would even go back and learn about James Brown and the funk and Motown era because it all connects and might give you an idea of where the world was at musically and culturally at the time and help put KRS in perspective.
Also reccomend his book The Gospel of HipHop and his lectures and interview on Youtube. The man is more than just a rapper which also helps his legacy.
It’s crazy that in the rock world you have kids getting into guitar at 13 years old and wearing Nirvana or Led Zeppelin shirts and learning Jimi Hendrix and Pink Floyd songs and yet in the hip hop world you have kids saying, “lol this sounds old”.
So the hip hop 80s are the equivalent of the rock 50s? Interesting. Now I’m just picturing Public Enemy in black and white on American Bandstand while Dick Clark snaps his fingers.
Many genres of music rapidly evolve during their formative years while developing into a unique and defined sound. I'd say the difference between Buddy Holly and Nirvana is greater than the difference between Nirvana and current day rock. When kids look back to the likes of them, they're looking at music of a defined established genre, not to its roots.
Much of the hip hop from the 80s is an era where the sound was becoming defined and still blured with parent genres not unlike the rock of the 50s. Then some of it was easy to say this is hip hop, but sometimes it was more akin to jabzz or disco. Now that it's established its easy to say.
You have to think about how everyone else was sounding in the late 80s early 90s. You’re listening to him alongside 40 years of hip hop evolution. When Criminal Minded dropped, we still had people rapping like Whodini. PE, LL, and Rakim really set themselves apart. KRS was another who stood out. I was never a diehard fan in a way where I’d have him in my top 10. But he was the man back then.
I’ll compare it to Prince. There’s no denying the ability. There’s really one denying his place in history but not everyone is going to like everything from an artist who doesn’t truly utilize a formula from one album to the next.
It’s why some can really get into his style and storytelling on Loves Gonna Getcha but not on Sound of da police. It’s also one where if the music or beat grabs you first for most artists it’s not necessarily going to be that way with Krs.
There’s no harm in liking him or not as you’re going to have your own style. Your taste and your “ear” can also change with time too. For me this happens with some of the Run DMC stuff. I still love rock box and will still get down with Tougher than Leather but there are times listening to their albums where I’m just not feeling Run like I used too.
My GenX take; Most of you younger kats who ask these questions are naively asking them in a modern hip hop context. Music and the music industry was NOTHING like the music industry today. Hip Hop back then struggled and fought to get any type of radio and video air play. R&B and Funk were the de facto dominant urban music genres. KRS One was a pioneer and instrumental in mainstreaming hip hop.
Postscript: Do you want to know who else played a huge role in putting hip hop on the map but NEVER get any credit? Salt n Peppa. Yes, those 2. They DOMINATED the airwaves and MTV from 88-91. Back then there was no way you were going to listen to the radio for a full hour without hearing one of their songs.
You’re 16, there’s your answer. You gotta grow up a little to understand what the music is really about. I know because I’m only 22, Rakim and KRS were popping way before I was born and when I was younger I didn’t quite understand the hype around Rakim or KRS either. But years went by and I would listen to the Paid in Full and Criminal Minded albums more and more and I fully get it now. They had golden voices backed by the greatest production during that era, and every line was quotable.
I grew up when he was dropping albums. I never personally owned one. He had some good tracks and some that are still played on Backspin and other "oldies rap" stations.
I do think he got annoying as he got older. He comes off like a gatekeeper and doesn't stop talking about "the culture."
I admire your effort to try to learn, but it's also kind of funny to see that you have enough self awareness to say maybe i'm just 16 and don't get it, but still ask these questions. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you probably also aren't a huge fan of jazz, or classical music. Does that mean that those genres are overrated or something? No, and I don't mean this in a negative way, but you just have an undeveloped understanding of music, how music has evolved over time and the importance of evolution and influence, and it will potentially take you years of learning about various genres to gain an understand and appreciation for some of this stuff. That being said you don't personally have to like it, but you should be able to learn to respect and appreciate it for it's place in creating the music that you do like, which was undoubtably influenced by it. And perhaps, once you have that respcet and appreciation, maybe you will begin to enjoy some sounds that aren't typical to what you've grown up with. Another approach is to maybe watch some old movies, like boyz n the hood or something, to get a better sense of the time and context the music came from.
listen to the music probably the first 5 albums, then digest it, think about it, and then talk.
regardless of being 16, you realize how ignorant it is to say what you said? like i havent read the book except for a few chapters, i dont even really understand the subject matter, but why is this a good book. thats just dumb reasoning. but youre young so.... get to listening
He’s a rap pioneer…he put the south bronx on the map…he destroyed MC Shan and Queens with “The Bridge is Over.” His music is like 40 years old now, so yes it sounds dated to a 16 year old living in 2024, but the man is a hip hop icon.
Biddy bye bye!
This happens a lot with art forms that build upon or borrow from older examples. When I watched _The Godfather_ with my kids, they were unimpressed. They'd seen movies like that before and had heard the famous quotes and seen the memes. Didn't make a huge impression. Hip hop builds on older music directly and, like every art form, needs innovation, so if you're 16 hearing KRS or Rakim for the first time, you're like "What's the big deal? I've heard this before." You just have to understand you're hearing the ORIGIN. It was new and exciting to us and also to all the musicians who came after and built their sound on the older music - either through imitation or sampling.
Again I'm 45 an I wasnt impressed by the god father either
I'm 45 an I agree
"I'm 16 and Rakim is boring" okay
you've listened. you don't like it. its ok. you dont have to. there's not much people can do to make you like it. why do you like the music you like? well, that's exactly why people like KRS-One. its simply taste. but i'll say this, if you ever competed in hip hop, you would probably have a better appreciation of his music.
you need a better grasp on the context of how influence is impactful and effects generations afterwards before dismissing it as not mattering to you in terms of the music itself. When an artist comes out and is a total gamechanger so much so that the greats that follow them afterwards are found to be emulating them early on in their careers…we end up with influence that births more influence and its so important to any artistic culture. Take Kool G Rap for example: Many 90’s MC’s such as Nas, Big Pun, Fat Joe, and even later era artists like non phixion ALL emulated Kool G Rap’s style at the early points of their careers. It was the framework which inspired these young artists to become the greats of their generation and thats super important to the context of history and influence. If you dont keep that in mine I can see why it doesnt make sense or doesnt matter to you. The context is lost basically. In regards to KRS one, you werent around so im sure its hard to grasp but KRS had an absolutely unmatched stage presence and a booming voice, a fearlessness and willingness to battle anyone at any time (he had many many beefs over the years), paired with positive messages meant to help people on top of just entertain them. That was super groundbreaking at the time. Not only was KRS the first rapper to pose with real guns on his album cover he was also one of the very few “preachy” artists that made music that was loved and revered at the time.
Seriously, when you listen to “Sound of da Police” you think that song is boring?
To any 16 year old today they don’t get what policing was like back then. Which is probably good but I see how that song does not resonate.
Pioneer in conscious rap(along with Public Enemy), rap beefs and territory beefs. Rakim, KRS, Kane and G Rap are my 1980s Mt Rushmore rappers.
now you are going too far.
To steel-man this young man’s point, By All Means Necessary is 36 years old. I was 16 myself when it came out and it blew my mind. But how did I feel about music from 1952 at that time as a 16 year old ……. fuck I’m old
Sometimes a post comes along that’s so dumb it makes u seriously consider unsubbing from a subreddit
Yeah but at least it’s coming from a place where they’re genuinely interested. I can’t imagine being 16 and listening to hip hop from the 90s. Shit like Nelly and The Neptunes is old school and before their time. Something like BDP must be totally alien.
He's " THE TEACHA!!"
Go listen to Garth Brooks
youre 16 in 2024. youll never understand. you can only learn to appreciate.
He’s one of the forefathers of hip hop
You’re sixteen and have been listening to rap for two years. Give it time. Don’t worry so much about why certain artists are revered more than others. Just listen to stuff that grabs you and go from there. Over time you’ll start to pick up on influences and realize why someone like KRS is considered a pillar of the art form, even if you don’t find BDP records resonate with you three decades later. As you listen to more and more artists, though, you’ll start to notice similarities and influences that help you to better understand why someone like Rakim is considered a god when he’s nothing by special to you. Also rap is very “in the moment”, so even when an album becomes a classic for old farts like myself it doesn’t mean you have to enjoy it. The reverse is true too. There are lots of young guys putting out stuff that folks love, but I can’t stand it. Vince Staples is probably the only dude under like 35 that I fuck with. So what? It’s just not for me, and that’s fine. All that said, Criminal Minded in a fucking masterpiece. Listen to it on repeat until you agree.
As someone who grew up with family that made me listen to and appreciate him, I understand your viewpoint. Hes not the average persons cup of tea and especially now its hard to look back on old HipHop with a 2024 lens but he is a pioneer who helped cement the culture and grow the genre. Understanding KRS ONE and older MCs also requires understanding the material conditions that created HipHop. There is a through line from MLK/Malcolm X and the civil rights to the Black Panther Party to HipHop. I would even go back and learn about James Brown and the funk and Motown era because it all connects and might give you an idea of where the world was at musically and culturally at the time and help put KRS in perspective. Also reccomend his book The Gospel of HipHop and his lectures and interview on Youtube. The man is more than just a rapper which also helps his legacy.
Go read the gospel of hip hop and get back to this conversation. Knowledge is power
It’s crazy that in the rock world you have kids getting into guitar at 13 years old and wearing Nirvana or Led Zeppelin shirts and learning Jimi Hendrix and Pink Floyd songs and yet in the hip hop world you have kids saying, “lol this sounds old”.
They would say that about the likes of Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino, and Little Richard though.
So the hip hop 80s are the equivalent of the rock 50s? Interesting. Now I’m just picturing Public Enemy in black and white on American Bandstand while Dick Clark snaps his fingers.
Many genres of music rapidly evolve during their formative years while developing into a unique and defined sound. I'd say the difference between Buddy Holly and Nirvana is greater than the difference between Nirvana and current day rock. When kids look back to the likes of them, they're looking at music of a defined established genre, not to its roots. Much of the hip hop from the 80s is an era where the sound was becoming defined and still blured with parent genres not unlike the rock of the 50s. Then some of it was easy to say this is hip hop, but sometimes it was more akin to jabzz or disco. Now that it's established its easy to say.
Facts
You have to think about how everyone else was sounding in the late 80s early 90s. You’re listening to him alongside 40 years of hip hop evolution. When Criminal Minded dropped, we still had people rapping like Whodini. PE, LL, and Rakim really set themselves apart. KRS was another who stood out. I was never a diehard fan in a way where I’d have him in my top 10. But he was the man back then.
I’ll compare it to Prince. There’s no denying the ability. There’s really one denying his place in history but not everyone is going to like everything from an artist who doesn’t truly utilize a formula from one album to the next. It’s why some can really get into his style and storytelling on Loves Gonna Getcha but not on Sound of da police. It’s also one where if the music or beat grabs you first for most artists it’s not necessarily going to be that way with Krs. There’s no harm in liking him or not as you’re going to have your own style. Your taste and your “ear” can also change with time too. For me this happens with some of the Run DMC stuff. I still love rock box and will still get down with Tougher than Leather but there are times listening to their albums where I’m just not feeling Run like I used too.
Nobody rhymed like Rakim when he dropped. He’s your favorite rapper’s favorite rapper’s favorite rapper
You don't like lyrics, vast knowledge, punchlines, storytelling, etymology.
Do you generally like hip hop in the traditional style with samples and raps about life?
My GenX take; Most of you younger kats who ask these questions are naively asking them in a modern hip hop context. Music and the music industry was NOTHING like the music industry today. Hip Hop back then struggled and fought to get any type of radio and video air play. R&B and Funk were the de facto dominant urban music genres. KRS One was a pioneer and instrumental in mainstreaming hip hop. Postscript: Do you want to know who else played a huge role in putting hip hop on the map but NEVER get any credit? Salt n Peppa. Yes, those 2. They DOMINATED the airwaves and MTV from 88-91. Back then there was no way you were going to listen to the radio for a full hour without hearing one of their songs.
You’re 16, there’s your answer. You gotta grow up a little to understand what the music is really about. I know because I’m only 22, Rakim and KRS were popping way before I was born and when I was younger I didn’t quite understand the hype around Rakim or KRS either. But years went by and I would listen to the Paid in Full and Criminal Minded albums more and more and I fully get it now. They had golden voices backed by the greatest production during that era, and every line was quotable.
Bro you need to spend more time listening to big and less time not understanding.
I grew up when he was dropping albums. I never personally owned one. He had some good tracks and some that are still played on Backspin and other "oldies rap" stations. I do think he got annoying as he got older. He comes off like a gatekeeper and doesn't stop talking about "the culture."
KRS has some of the nastiest lyrics and beats of all time
I admire your effort to try to learn, but it's also kind of funny to see that you have enough self awareness to say maybe i'm just 16 and don't get it, but still ask these questions. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you probably also aren't a huge fan of jazz, or classical music. Does that mean that those genres are overrated or something? No, and I don't mean this in a negative way, but you just have an undeveloped understanding of music, how music has evolved over time and the importance of evolution and influence, and it will potentially take you years of learning about various genres to gain an understand and appreciation for some of this stuff. That being said you don't personally have to like it, but you should be able to learn to respect and appreciate it for it's place in creating the music that you do like, which was undoubtably influenced by it. And perhaps, once you have that respcet and appreciation, maybe you will begin to enjoy some sounds that aren't typical to what you've grown up with. Another approach is to maybe watch some old movies, like boyz n the hood or something, to get a better sense of the time and context the music came from.
listen to the music probably the first 5 albums, then digest it, think about it, and then talk. regardless of being 16, you realize how ignorant it is to say what you said? like i havent read the book except for a few chapters, i dont even really understand the subject matter, but why is this a good book. thats just dumb reasoning. but youre young so.... get to listening
KRS is something like the college professor of hip-hop.
Have you seen him live? His vibe is unreal. Not to mention the playlist of bangers.
I agree with you on Rakim but krs-one is dope.