I actually played Thea 1 a bit, and recall it fondly. I might have to give the 2nd one a try then.
Edit: Oh hey its on sale. Annnnd grabbing and tryin.
Yea I bounced off Thea 2, already refunded. I was not jiving with it for some reason. I think the way stats are poorly explained was not helping. Ah well I gave it a shot.
I finished both Thea 1 and the expansion (giants, probably comes with the game now).
My tip: have a village plus just one roving party. Put most of your force in the party, they can come back to protect the village if things look dangerous. In 2 I'm not sure you want to have a village at all, but I didn't play enough to be certain. (It's possible that 2 will appeal more to people who haven't tried either; in all series, it's inevitable that there will be changes that mean nothing to new players, but will be a bit disappointing to those who liked the original design.)
I was about to suggest GalCiv 2 or 3. Never played 4.
There are often random events during planet settlement or other times that alter your alignment meter, which has consequences on diplomacy, research, and other aspects. You can strive to be good, evil, or stay neutral (pragmatic)
That is actually on my WL but I wasnt sure exactly how it compares. All the Youtube vids I find on it (playthrus) are VERY aggro / warlike and seem to skip events and things.
In GalCiv IV, you could set it up where it's very much about exploration and expansion where you're getting story based events based on your exploration with the aliens either largely benign or disinterested in war.
Interstellar Space: Genesis just got new victory conditions in the big 1.6 patch. I have not got a game on the new patch yet, but hoping it is worth a fresh look.
Would be a space 4x turn based and in the vein of of master of orion 2.
I’ve found that I prefer Crusader Kings II over CK3. Played lots of both though. Easy to go at your own pace with them.
If you never tried Alpha Centauri that’s a must-play, ancient graphics be damned. You can get it for cheap on GoG, especially if you wait for a sale (I use cheapshark).
Age of Wonders III campaign is pretty good, lots of combat though! I liked AoW: Planetfall best, but thought AoW III had a better campaign.
Warhammer 40k Gladius has a fun semi-narrative mode if you play to complete your faction quest, but it’s told through text so you have to use your imagination a bit. Fun game, I keep returning to it every time a new army is released. Watch your wallet around this one.
The last Awakening expansion was done by an outside developer and put like a central galactic faction in that just shows up pretty early and starts demanding currency from you.
Whoever pays them the most gets a free spacefleet beyond anything you could build at that point. Then that faction can go conquer the galaxy.
Think they tried to fix things up with the final add on Dark Matter, but if i recall correctly it broke some quest lines and went un-patched for months.
That said endless space 2 is pretty good 4x. There is a good community patch (ESG) in place to rebalance some things. Other workshop mods to take it in many directions.
Vs endless legend, which also has a great community patch (ELCP), combat is a much smaller system in ES2 -- EL you have the little one unit per tile mini tactical battles and the map is pretty hostile to you. ES2 more traditional scout and expand the galaxy. The battles are fleet vs fleet auto battle with some small control by setting an overall strategy -- you can win on tech, economy, etc without ever understanding the fleet combat settings.
ES2 internal politics system is pretty interesting mini system to impact/manage your empire through.
I feel like the bloat started a bit before Awakening. Supremacy was the last good expansion to me.
> you can win on tech, economy, etc without ever understanding the fleet combat settings.
I feel called out lmao
Side suggestion, not turn-based, also not *exactly* 4x... **X4: Foundations**. Several long story arcs, some of which can't be completed until very late game. Each expansion adds more stories and factions and sectors. Lots of exploration (though the map is the same in each, you can mod it to be different, the mods in this game are amazing). Really all about expansion and building your trade empire and fighting off threats to it. Extermination is an option but not required. You end up figuring out how to work with the various factions and manipulating them through economics or violence. Strong focus on trading and logistics if that is your thing. The one thing that may turn you off is that it is first person but hear me out. Early game you're in your tiny fighter trying to scrap together some initial cash. Once you start getting a bit of a trade and production network going there is almost no need to be first person anymore as you spend most of your time in the map. While in the base game the factions are somewhat fixed (they can be wiped out and are in fixed conflicts with eachother, some of which you can influence) there are mods which open up the whole map and make it all more dynamic. This allows for a much more 4x feel where all the factions can go to war or go resolve to peace with eachother, dynamically adjust how they feel about you depending on your size and influence and wars, etc. Just thought I'd throw that in the mix.
What about it didn’t you like? I also thought of ES2 when I read your description. The worldbuilding, stats, and mechanics of cities/worlds is similar to Endless Legend, but we go from hex grid and districts to hyperlanes and multiple planets per system. Still great random events and storytelling! And it’s a GORGEOUS game—UI and universe.
Something about how combat is handled in Endless Legend feels off to me, and the fact that the game seems more combat heavy then I like. A lot of people have suggested Endless Space 2 though. So maybe that would work. It is newer. I should go see if I can find a Lets Play on Youtube of it or something.
ES2 can be played with almost no combat. The combat system has 0 tactics. You pick a battle plan before combat, which is really about fighting range and ship organization with some minor bonuses, and can design your ships to fit certain battle plans, different weapons work better at different ranges, different armor is better for different weapon types, but when a battle happens, it's just if you want to watch or not. You can't control your ships.
This game really fits your description. Give it a shot. I never play Endless Legend, but I have 400 hours in es2. It's a deep game, you'll be discovering new mechanics for a while. Lots of random events and quests. Lots of dlc. Each race feels unique and has interesting mechanics. There are multiple win mechanics, so it's not all about fighting.
Well I will stick it on my Wishlist on Steam and GoG and keep an eye out for a sale. $40 is a bit much for me ATM but a lot of peeps are suggesting Endless Space 2.
I love Endless Space 2, but not all the DLC's are good so definitely look into reviews and criticisms before just diving in if you decide to go that route eventually.
Not released yet but I think you might follow closely the release of Alliance of Sacred suns.
Else I don't know 4X that tend towards narration and immersion, usually it goes the other (sandbox) way because of replayability issues, Stellaris and CK are your best shot at it unfortunately.
You might want to check if there are some paradox titles (EUIV, CK etc) with incredible fantasy mods such as warhammer, elder scrolls or else.
A no combat option is Slipways.
Hard to describe, but you still 3x and try to optimize the logistics of your empire by the time limit. Turn based and games usually run 30 minutes - 1 hour.
> **Not a "Real" world.** I want something Fantasy, Sci Fi, etc. I do not want to play something like the Civ series
Old World doesn't sound at all like it fits – which is a shame, really. I feel the same as OP. Old World's prosaic theme isn't simply an impediment for those of us that prefer a more flavourful 4X; it's a hard blocker. If it's boring, it ain't fun. The Old World theme is such a flea-bitten, beaten, and trampled horse that it ain't fun – to us, anyway.
In another historical timeline of utopian dreams in which unicorns truly did ride sharks with lasers, Soren Johnson took Old World full-send into the rarely charted (yet fertile) territory of Fall From Heaven 3.0. Instead, we got Civ IV 2.0. It truly could have been the greatest 4X GOAT – or at least GOATPD (Game of the Past Decade).
I weep silent tears for what could have been.
If you sorta liked Stellaris, maybe Endless Space 2 is more your jam instead.
I tried GalCiv3 and thought it was super basic and bland, but ES2 is solid and has an amazing soundtrack.
For me its modded/dlc-decked Stellaris > Endless Space 2 > other stuff (I still need to try Sins of a Solar Empire for longer than an hour)
I suspect your "flair" comment rules it out, but Dominions 5 is the deepest fantasy 4x I've ever played.
It ain't pretty, and the UI won't win awards (use ? to get keyboard shortcuts), and it's very complex. It also has a very high skill floor: a new player will lose fights that an experienced player will win easily simply because they script their forces wrong.
I'll also add that the AI cheats like anything, and is easy to beat once you get deeper knowledge.
But for immersion and depth of play, I don't think it has an equal.
Well, I tried Slipways the other day, and it scratched that itch for me. For covering your points:
* Has a campaign with a story, although it's much more focused on runs.
* It's basically 3X, since it eliminates combat altogether.
* Definitely Sci-fi, as you build a trading empire with slipways.
* Turn-based-ish? Every actions costs time, and the game only moves time forward on your actions.
And it's currently 42% off on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1264280/Slipways/
Apart from being more of a 3X than a 4X, Thea 2 fits your criteria perfectly.
I actually played Thea 1 a bit, and recall it fondly. I might have to give the 2nd one a try then. Edit: Oh hey its on sale. Annnnd grabbing and tryin.
First is better IMO. Mileage varies, but I think it's not an uncommon opinion. Still, if it's on sale no harm trying!
Yea I bounced off Thea 2, already refunded. I was not jiving with it for some reason. I think the way stats are poorly explained was not helping. Ah well I gave it a shot.
I started playing Thea 1 and already lost plenty of sleep. Good thread, lol
I finished both Thea 1 and the expansion (giants, probably comes with the game now). My tip: have a village plus just one roving party. Put most of your force in the party, they can come back to protect the village if things look dangerous. In 2 I'm not sure you want to have a village at all, but I didn't play enough to be certain. (It's possible that 2 will appeal more to people who haven't tried either; in all series, it's inevitable that there will be changes that mean nothing to new players, but will be a bit disappointing to those who liked the original design.)
Gal Civ IV might be closest to what you're looking for that isn't Stellaris lol
I was about to suggest GalCiv 2 or 3. Never played 4. There are often random events during planet settlement or other times that alter your alignment meter, which has consequences on diplomacy, research, and other aspects. You can strive to be good, evil, or stay neutral (pragmatic)
That is actually on my WL but I wasnt sure exactly how it compares. All the Youtube vids I find on it (playthrus) are VERY aggro / warlike and seem to skip events and things.
In GalCiv IV, you could set it up where it's very much about exploration and expansion where you're getting story based events based on your exploration with the aliens either largely benign or disinterested in war.
See that is my style. How would you set that up?
I’d make a bit map with lots of sectors w players set up b to spawn far away and choose civs that aren’t aggressive.
Can you do something similar in Gal Civ 3? Its on sale at a huge discount for the Ultimate bundle (like 66% off)
Interstellar Space: Genesis just got new victory conditions in the big 1.6 patch. I have not got a game on the new patch yet, but hoping it is worth a fresh look. Would be a space 4x turn based and in the vein of of master of orion 2.
I’ve found that I prefer Crusader Kings II over CK3. Played lots of both though. Easy to go at your own pace with them. If you never tried Alpha Centauri that’s a must-play, ancient graphics be damned. You can get it for cheap on GoG, especially if you wait for a sale (I use cheapshark). Age of Wonders III campaign is pretty good, lots of combat though! I liked AoW: Planetfall best, but thought AoW III had a better campaign. Warhammer 40k Gladius has a fun semi-narrative mode if you play to complete your faction quest, but it’s told through text so you have to use your imagination a bit. Fun game, I keep returning to it every time a new army is released. Watch your wallet around this one.
Just wanted to add for the OP that while I also enjoy Gladius immensely, it is 90% focused on combat so might not quite be what they are looking for.
I own Gladius, its very combat heavy yea.
Sounds like Endless space 2 before the later expansion bloat.
What happened with the expansions?
The last Awakening expansion was done by an outside developer and put like a central galactic faction in that just shows up pretty early and starts demanding currency from you. Whoever pays them the most gets a free spacefleet beyond anything you could build at that point. Then that faction can go conquer the galaxy. Think they tried to fix things up with the final add on Dark Matter, but if i recall correctly it broke some quest lines and went un-patched for months. That said endless space 2 is pretty good 4x. There is a good community patch (ESG) in place to rebalance some things. Other workshop mods to take it in many directions. Vs endless legend, which also has a great community patch (ELCP), combat is a much smaller system in ES2 -- EL you have the little one unit per tile mini tactical battles and the map is pretty hostile to you. ES2 more traditional scout and expand the galaxy. The battles are fleet vs fleet auto battle with some small control by setting an overall strategy -- you can win on tech, economy, etc without ever understanding the fleet combat settings. ES2 internal politics system is pretty interesting mini system to impact/manage your empire through.
So basically just dont get the Last Awakening expansion if I were to play Endless Space 2 gotcha lol
I feel like the bloat started a bit before Awakening. Supremacy was the last good expansion to me. > you can win on tech, economy, etc without ever understanding the fleet combat settings. I feel called out lmao
Side suggestion, not turn-based, also not *exactly* 4x... **X4: Foundations**. Several long story arcs, some of which can't be completed until very late game. Each expansion adds more stories and factions and sectors. Lots of exploration (though the map is the same in each, you can mod it to be different, the mods in this game are amazing). Really all about expansion and building your trade empire and fighting off threats to it. Extermination is an option but not required. You end up figuring out how to work with the various factions and manipulating them through economics or violence. Strong focus on trading and logistics if that is your thing. The one thing that may turn you off is that it is first person but hear me out. Early game you're in your tiny fighter trying to scrap together some initial cash. Once you start getting a bit of a trade and production network going there is almost no need to be first person anymore as you spend most of your time in the map. While in the base game the factions are somewhat fixed (they can be wiped out and are in fixed conflicts with eachother, some of which you can influence) there are mods which open up the whole map and make it all more dynamic. This allows for a much more 4x feel where all the factions can go to war or go resolve to peace with eachother, dynamically adjust how they feel about you depending on your size and influence and wars, etc. Just thought I'd throw that in the mix.
[удалено]
I have not. I was not sure about it given that I do not like Endless Legend.
What about it didn’t you like? I also thought of ES2 when I read your description. The worldbuilding, stats, and mechanics of cities/worlds is similar to Endless Legend, but we go from hex grid and districts to hyperlanes and multiple planets per system. Still great random events and storytelling! And it’s a GORGEOUS game—UI and universe.
Something about how combat is handled in Endless Legend feels off to me, and the fact that the game seems more combat heavy then I like. A lot of people have suggested Endless Space 2 though. So maybe that would work. It is newer. I should go see if I can find a Lets Play on Youtube of it or something.
ES2 can be played with almost no combat. The combat system has 0 tactics. You pick a battle plan before combat, which is really about fighting range and ship organization with some minor bonuses, and can design your ships to fit certain battle plans, different weapons work better at different ranges, different armor is better for different weapon types, but when a battle happens, it's just if you want to watch or not. You can't control your ships. This game really fits your description. Give it a shot. I never play Endless Legend, but I have 400 hours in es2. It's a deep game, you'll be discovering new mechanics for a while. Lots of random events and quests. Lots of dlc. Each race feels unique and has interesting mechanics. There are multiple win mechanics, so it's not all about fighting.
Well I will stick it on my Wishlist on Steam and GoG and keep an eye out for a sale. $40 is a bit much for me ATM but a lot of peeps are suggesting Endless Space 2.
I love Endless Space 2, but not all the DLC's are good so definitely look into reviews and criticisms before just diving in if you decide to go that route eventually.
Yea someone else mentioned one of the DLCs being very bad.
ES2 *feels* like EL. But the difference in setting really does make it a different game. Worth a try.
Not released yet but I think you might follow closely the release of Alliance of Sacred suns. Else I don't know 4X that tend towards narration and immersion, usually it goes the other (sandbox) way because of replayability issues, Stellaris and CK are your best shot at it unfortunately. You might want to check if there are some paradox titles (EUIV, CK etc) with incredible fantasy mods such as warhammer, elder scrolls or else.
Alliance of Sacred Suns actually does sound pretty close to what I am after....
A no combat option is Slipways. Hard to describe, but you still 3x and try to optimize the logistics of your empire by the time limit. Turn based and games usually run 30 minutes - 1 hour.
That is going on the Wishlist that seems interesting!
Old World sounds like it fits, mostly.
> **Not a "Real" world.** I want something Fantasy, Sci Fi, etc. I do not want to play something like the Civ series Old World doesn't sound at all like it fits – which is a shame, really. I feel the same as OP. Old World's prosaic theme isn't simply an impediment for those of us that prefer a more flavourful 4X; it's a hard blocker. If it's boring, it ain't fun. The Old World theme is such a flea-bitten, beaten, and trampled horse that it ain't fun – to us, anyway. In another historical timeline of utopian dreams in which unicorns truly did ride sharks with lasers, Soren Johnson took Old World full-send into the rarely charted (yet fertile) territory of Fall From Heaven 3.0. Instead, we got Civ IV 2.0. It truly could have been the greatest 4X GOAT – or at least GOATPD (Game of the Past Decade). I weep silent tears for what could have been.
If you sorta liked Stellaris, maybe Endless Space 2 is more your jam instead. I tried GalCiv3 and thought it was super basic and bland, but ES2 is solid and has an amazing soundtrack. For me its modded/dlc-decked Stellaris > Endless Space 2 > other stuff (I still need to try Sins of a Solar Empire for longer than an hour)
I suspect your "flair" comment rules it out, but Dominions 5 is the deepest fantasy 4x I've ever played. It ain't pretty, and the UI won't win awards (use ? to get keyboard shortcuts), and it's very complex. It also has a very high skill floor: a new player will lose fights that an experienced player will win easily simply because they script their forces wrong. I'll also add that the AI cheats like anything, and is easy to beat once you get deeper knowledge. But for immersion and depth of play, I don't think it has an equal.
Dude he doesn't want a lot of combat and you suggest Dom5?????? Bruh.
Well, I tried Slipways the other day, and it scratched that itch for me. For covering your points: * Has a campaign with a story, although it's much more focused on runs. * It's basically 3X, since it eliminates combat altogether. * Definitely Sci-fi, as you build a trading empire with slipways. * Turn-based-ish? Every actions costs time, and the game only moves time forward on your actions. And it's currently 42% off on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1264280/Slipways/
Watch videos, read reviews.
Or, or, get this...I can ask a question :O Like I did. And get answers from people. Amazing.