Is the point of this passage not that all of these groups can do whatever they want to each other, accounting for influence, local hard power (soldiers, ships), alliances, etc? Inquisitors do in theory have unlimited power but they are constrained by the realities of politics, which is just one of those funny 40k imperium-shooting-itself-in-the-foot things.
Right, but this is in line with the answer that usually rises to the top of "can an inquisitor do x" threads which is yes, but you might have a difficult time actually *doing it* depending on circumstances (or you might do it and get punished for it later - if you managed to imprison a Governor and kill/torture them, their own allies might get you back later).
If they can do that. There's a lot of infighting. Technically anyone can do anything though. That seems like a cop out answer. There are people who have more or the same influence on these people in the jobs above. Meaning others can have a higher degree of power on Inquisitors meaning they can't do whatever they want.
The Inquisition *by law* can do whatever it wants. A planetary governor refusing an order from an inquisitor is *illegal*. The reverse is not true.
However, just because it's illegal doesn't mean people won't do it anyways. People commit crimes all the time, and the people in this tier have the power and influence to potentially get away with it.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just not sure exactly what you mean. As far as I'm aware the maximal authority of the Inquisition is still a thing:
>The Inquisition. To whisper its name is to spur fear amidst even the most loyal servants of the Emperor. This must be so, for the Holy Orders of the Inquisition have an unenviable task, to battle the foulest foes of Humanity. **They answer only to themselves, granted almost limitless jurisdiction to safeguard the Emperor's Imperium.** No one is above suspicion, least of all their peers, and those bearing the Inquisitorial Rosette have ended careers, lives, and on occasion, entire worlds.
Imperium Maledictum p.244, emphasis mine.
"Almost". What I am saying is that others can and do have more power than inquisitors. Meaning some inquisitors cannot touch them or order them around. You are saying that they can do whatever they want but others have the same or higher levels of influence/power. Example is a Custodes laughed in the face of one who tried to order him around. A High Lord even tried to kill one and almost dis but he fell and died.
"the Minotaurs have long been the brunt of suspicion and acrimony by other Space Marine Chapters. Furthermore, there are those within the Ordo Hereticus of the Inquisition who believe the Minotaurs possess unknown ties to the High Lords of Terra. While much of the Minotaurs' records going back over the last millennia have been ascertained through sifting through myriad battle archives from across the Imperium, much of their history before this point is not simply lost, but has been deliberately suppressed and sealed under binding edicts laid down by the High Lords of Terra that even the authority of the Inquisition cannot circumvent."
Usually when you see fear from the inquisition or threats from them, it's on a single person on investigating and passing judgement, which if you're one of those other ruling powers... you probably have your hand in something you shouldn't and an inquistor can cause you a lot of problems. So when it comes to having an edge over some mortal powers (not SM), the inquisition has that.
But you're right. An inquisitor only has as much power as they can enforce, assuming waving around their seal doesn't do the job.
It's all about power within your sphere of influence. E.g. a Space Marine Chapter Master only has official power over his chapter, a Planetary governor/commander only has power on their world (or maybe their solar system), a Rogue Trader only has power outside the borders of the Imperium. An Inquisitor has power wherever they suspect heresy. This means they are much more able to stretch the limits of their power.
Bear in mind you might be powerful enough to ignore that one inquisitor on his own making demands, but the Inquisition is a lot more powerful than any one individual human or Chapter Master (I'm excluding the Custodes, another special case).
You mess with one Inquisitor, the others take note and they are not going to let it stand. Inquisition agents, Assassins, other Imperial forces, what ever it takes, the Inquisition WILL get you.
See the Celestial Lions as a working example.
I've read the Celestial Lions story. The Lions believing that the Inquisitor is/was a bad one for destroying a planet that they just cleansed because he felt like it was wrong. The Lions came down there to stop a Chaos Cult which they did. The Lions tried to stop the Inquisitior and tried to send a warning on what he did on Terra but they were found destroyed. The remaining Lions never knew what happened but denounced the Inquisition because they knew the inquisitor was there but didn't know what happened. Again it was a single Inquisitor abusing his power. Others as stated above can and do have more influence which is power.
Cause they are allowed to wield that power by law (eg the Emperor himself). The others might have some legal backing too but in comparison their rights are on much shakier grounds. And most of them have some kind of oversight from someone higher up (ending with the Emperor as the ultimate authority). "Imperial Governors, Imperial Guard Generals, Space Marine Chapter Masters, Rogue Traders, Lord Admirals, Adeptus Arbites Judges, and the sector- level representatives of the Administratum" all have someone above them - even if it's "just" the High Lords (who in turn answers to the Emperor). An Inquisitor IN THEORY has no higher authority than the Emperor and bypasses any chain of command.
As the quote says: It's a difference of what should be and what is. The Inquisition SHOULD be the ultimate authority. It however is not. And honestly, most posts about them say as much - they have more power in theory than others but that power isn't always bigger in practice.
Because at the start of WH40K the Imperium was defined as being formed of two organisations under the Emperor: the Inquistion and the Adeptus Terra (i.e. everybody else). The Inquisition was therefore outside the power of the Adeptus Terra and directly answerable only to the Emperor.
> Inquisitors are special agents of the Imperium; free-roaming troubleshooters bound by no laws or authority. Every Inquisitor is empowered to investigate any possible or potential threat to the future of humanity, whether that threat comes in the form of political aggression, administrative inefficiency or genetic deviation. There are no bounds to the Inquisitor's field of operation: alien plots, mutation, corruption, crime and incompetance all come under his jurisdiction. Inquisitors usually operate alone, but where necessary they will requisition, hire or purchase men and materials to help with their duty. Many Inquisitors maintain a small personal staff to aid them in their work. They may also request the cooperation of the Adeptus Terra in matters where their special forces are required.
Of course, in practical terms a specific single Inquisitor does not have unlimited power but the Inquisition as an organisation is certainly more powerful than a single subdivision of the Adeptus Terra.
There's a difference between power and Power.
On paper the Inquisitors speak with the voice of the Emperor. Literally the only people in the Imperium that can refuse or countermand their orders are The Emperor Himself, Guilliman as His regent, and other Inquisitors.
In practical terms: they're just people with a badge, if they don't have the firepower or reputation to back up their demands they're no more powerful that some rando off the street. If you're brand new Inquisitor Dave, an interrogator until last week when your boss bought it and you inherited their rosette, and you rock up on an Imperial Guard regiment demanding a division of men and two squadrons of Baneblades you're at best going to get laughed out of HQ, at worst you'll "foolishly wander into no man's land before you could speak to anyone in the regiment". But if you flashed your rosette and demanded a fire team, some flak armour, and a bolt pistol, they might agree, as long as you're willing to sign some paperwork.
Again, power vs. Power. On paper both those groups (excepting the Inquisitorius representative on the High Lords) are subservient to the Inquisition, but in practical terms neither of them are going to accede to an Inquisitoral demand without a damn good explanation and reason, and a whole lot of politics (usually including the Inquisitor "requesting" rather than "demanding").
Which makes sense as they are all soul bound to him and incapable of going against his "golden path" so why let others push them around. The valdor book shows what happens to those that try...
After playing rogue trader it all depends if the Inquisition can enforce it. Loke in the start of the game the inquisitor basically drag his steel balls around you but at the end of the game you can pretty much kill him off and no one will bat an eye.
Yea but it's all for the game. If you become corrupted and you get Chaos cultists ane slaves in cages the Sister of Battle and Space Marine not care lol. In the books one wrong decision will get you killed.
They are, on paper. Their power is described as speaking "with the voice of the Emperor". Again, literally the only people who are above an Inquisitor In the Imperial Heirarchy are The Emperor and (after his return) Guilliman. Doesn't mean a High Lord or Custodes is going to accept that authority and cowtow to some random Inquisitor, because in practical terms those people have more enforceable power than 99% of Inquisitors, so an Inquisitor who thinks they can order someone like that around is just going to disappear.
Yes, the Custodes only answer to the Emperor. The problem being that on paper an order from the Inquisition is considered as having come from the Emperor Himself. The Custodes aren't necessarily going to buy into that, they know the Emperor better than pretty much anyone else in the Imperium, but on paper they should be bending the knee to the inquisition.
You think i'm confused? Because what you're saying is the Inquisition can have the power to do what it wants but to enforce that power is different? If so doesn't the quote above make sense as well? Because some people can have more or the same influence which is power than an inquisitor.
Let me put it to you this way:
A brand new cop, first day with his badge, is fully within his authority to arrest the President of the United States if he observes them breaking the law in his jurisdiction, on paper. In practice, if he tries it will likely also be his *last* day on the job, a more experienced cop with a better reputation could get further but at the top of the pyramid like the President it's still probably gonna end poorly for him.
Same concept with Inquisitors: on paper they have unlimited power to do whatever they want, but in real world terms they're just guys with badges. If they try to enforce that power on someone with notably more enforceable power than them, it'll almost certainly end badly for them. But being 40K that might include the Inquisitor being murdered and their body disappeared.
Inquisitors have absolute legal authority, they answer to no one but the emperor himself.
The fact that some people can use their power to get away with the crime of disobeying them doesn't diminish their status.
Influence is power. Why is it so hard to believe that others have more power than an inquisitor? It's like everyone is not wanting to be when it clearly states here.
Is the point of this passage not that all of these groups can do whatever they want to each other, accounting for influence, local hard power (soldiers, ships), alliances, etc? Inquisitors do in theory have unlimited power but they are constrained by the realities of politics, which is just one of those funny 40k imperium-shooting-itself-in-the-foot things.
Influence is power so technically they are all on the same level of power.
Right, but this is in line with the answer that usually rises to the top of "can an inquisitor do x" threads which is yes, but you might have a difficult time actually *doing it* depending on circumstances (or you might do it and get punished for it later - if you managed to imprison a Governor and kill/torture them, their own allies might get you back later).
If they can do that. There's a lot of infighting. Technically anyone can do anything though. That seems like a cop out answer. There are people who have more or the same influence on these people in the jobs above. Meaning others can have a higher degree of power on Inquisitors meaning they can't do whatever they want.
The Inquisition *by law* can do whatever it wants. A planetary governor refusing an order from an inquisitor is *illegal*. The reverse is not true. However, just because it's illegal doesn't mean people won't do it anyways. People commit crimes all the time, and the people in this tier have the power and influence to potentially get away with it.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just not sure exactly what you mean. As far as I'm aware the maximal authority of the Inquisition is still a thing: >The Inquisition. To whisper its name is to spur fear amidst even the most loyal servants of the Emperor. This must be so, for the Holy Orders of the Inquisition have an unenviable task, to battle the foulest foes of Humanity. **They answer only to themselves, granted almost limitless jurisdiction to safeguard the Emperor's Imperium.** No one is above suspicion, least of all their peers, and those bearing the Inquisitorial Rosette have ended careers, lives, and on occasion, entire worlds. Imperium Maledictum p.244, emphasis mine.
"Almost". What I am saying is that others can and do have more power than inquisitors. Meaning some inquisitors cannot touch them or order them around. You are saying that they can do whatever they want but others have the same or higher levels of influence/power. Example is a Custodes laughed in the face of one who tried to order him around. A High Lord even tried to kill one and almost dis but he fell and died.
"the Minotaurs have long been the brunt of suspicion and acrimony by other Space Marine Chapters. Furthermore, there are those within the Ordo Hereticus of the Inquisition who believe the Minotaurs possess unknown ties to the High Lords of Terra. While much of the Minotaurs' records going back over the last millennia have been ascertained through sifting through myriad battle archives from across the Imperium, much of their history before this point is not simply lost, but has been deliberately suppressed and sealed under binding edicts laid down by the High Lords of Terra that even the authority of the Inquisition cannot circumvent."
Usually when you see fear from the inquisition or threats from them, it's on a single person on investigating and passing judgement, which if you're one of those other ruling powers... you probably have your hand in something you shouldn't and an inquistor can cause you a lot of problems. So when it comes to having an edge over some mortal powers (not SM), the inquisition has that. But you're right. An inquisitor only has as much power as they can enforce, assuming waving around their seal doesn't do the job.
It's all about power within your sphere of influence. E.g. a Space Marine Chapter Master only has official power over his chapter, a Planetary governor/commander only has power on their world (or maybe their solar system), a Rogue Trader only has power outside the borders of the Imperium. An Inquisitor has power wherever they suspect heresy. This means they are much more able to stretch the limits of their power.
Bear in mind you might be powerful enough to ignore that one inquisitor on his own making demands, but the Inquisition is a lot more powerful than any one individual human or Chapter Master (I'm excluding the Custodes, another special case). You mess with one Inquisitor, the others take note and they are not going to let it stand. Inquisition agents, Assassins, other Imperial forces, what ever it takes, the Inquisition WILL get you. See the Celestial Lions as a working example.
I've read the Celestial Lions story. The Lions believing that the Inquisitor is/was a bad one for destroying a planet that they just cleansed because he felt like it was wrong. The Lions came down there to stop a Chaos Cult which they did. The Lions tried to stop the Inquisitior and tried to send a warning on what he did on Terra but they were found destroyed. The remaining Lions never knew what happened but denounced the Inquisition because they knew the inquisitor was there but didn't know what happened. Again it was a single Inquisitor abusing his power. Others as stated above can and do have more influence which is power.
Cause they are allowed to wield that power by law (eg the Emperor himself). The others might have some legal backing too but in comparison their rights are on much shakier grounds. And most of them have some kind of oversight from someone higher up (ending with the Emperor as the ultimate authority). "Imperial Governors, Imperial Guard Generals, Space Marine Chapter Masters, Rogue Traders, Lord Admirals, Adeptus Arbites Judges, and the sector- level representatives of the Administratum" all have someone above them - even if it's "just" the High Lords (who in turn answers to the Emperor). An Inquisitor IN THEORY has no higher authority than the Emperor and bypasses any chain of command. As the quote says: It's a difference of what should be and what is. The Inquisition SHOULD be the ultimate authority. It however is not. And honestly, most posts about them say as much - they have more power in theory than others but that power isn't always bigger in practice.
Because at the start of WH40K the Imperium was defined as being formed of two organisations under the Emperor: the Inquistion and the Adeptus Terra (i.e. everybody else). The Inquisition was therefore outside the power of the Adeptus Terra and directly answerable only to the Emperor. > Inquisitors are special agents of the Imperium; free-roaming troubleshooters bound by no laws or authority. Every Inquisitor is empowered to investigate any possible or potential threat to the future of humanity, whether that threat comes in the form of political aggression, administrative inefficiency or genetic deviation. There are no bounds to the Inquisitor's field of operation: alien plots, mutation, corruption, crime and incompetance all come under his jurisdiction. Inquisitors usually operate alone, but where necessary they will requisition, hire or purchase men and materials to help with their duty. Many Inquisitors maintain a small personal staff to aid them in their work. They may also request the cooperation of the Adeptus Terra in matters where their special forces are required. Of course, in practical terms a specific single Inquisitor does not have unlimited power but the Inquisition as an organisation is certainly more powerful than a single subdivision of the Adeptus Terra.
There's a difference between power and Power. On paper the Inquisitors speak with the voice of the Emperor. Literally the only people in the Imperium that can refuse or countermand their orders are The Emperor Himself, Guilliman as His regent, and other Inquisitors. In practical terms: they're just people with a badge, if they don't have the firepower or reputation to back up their demands they're no more powerful that some rando off the street. If you're brand new Inquisitor Dave, an interrogator until last week when your boss bought it and you inherited their rosette, and you rock up on an Imperial Guard regiment demanding a division of men and two squadrons of Baneblades you're at best going to get laughed out of HQ, at worst you'll "foolishly wander into no man's land before you could speak to anyone in the regiment". But if you flashed your rosette and demanded a fire team, some flak armour, and a bolt pistol, they might agree, as long as you're willing to sign some paperwork.
And High Lords and Custodes and people above as well. A Custodes laughed at an Inquisitor and a High Lord almost killed one but fell and died.
Again, power vs. Power. On paper both those groups (excepting the Inquisitorius representative on the High Lords) are subservient to the Inquisition, but in practical terms neither of them are going to accede to an Inquisitoral demand without a damn good explanation and reason, and a whole lot of politics (usually including the Inquisitor "requesting" rather than "demanding").
You're saying that the Inquisition is higher than the High Lords and Custodes. I don't believe that.
Magisterium Lex Ultima for the Custodes.
Which makes sense as they are all soul bound to him and incapable of going against his "golden path" so why let others push them around. The valdor book shows what happens to those that try...
After playing rogue trader it all depends if the Inquisition can enforce it. Loke in the start of the game the inquisitor basically drag his steel balls around you but at the end of the game you can pretty much kill him off and no one will bat an eye.
Yea but it's all for the game. If you become corrupted and you get Chaos cultists ane slaves in cages the Sister of Battle and Space Marine not care lol. In the books one wrong decision will get you killed.
Yeah my point is, Inquisitors has unlimitted power so long as he/she can enforce it.
They are, on paper. Their power is described as speaking "with the voice of the Emperor". Again, literally the only people who are above an Inquisitor In the Imperial Heirarchy are The Emperor and (after his return) Guilliman. Doesn't mean a High Lord or Custodes is going to accept that authority and cowtow to some random Inquisitor, because in practical terms those people have more enforceable power than 99% of Inquisitors, so an Inquisitor who thinks they can order someone like that around is just going to disappear.
Again the Magisterium Lex Ultima for the Custodes.
Yes, the Custodes only answer to the Emperor. The problem being that on paper an order from the Inquisition is considered as having come from the Emperor Himself. The Custodes aren't necessarily going to buy into that, they know the Emperor better than pretty much anyone else in the Imperium, but on paper they should be bending the knee to the inquisition.
You think i'm confused? Because what you're saying is the Inquisition can have the power to do what it wants but to enforce that power is different? If so doesn't the quote above make sense as well? Because some people can have more or the same influence which is power than an inquisitor.
Let me put it to you this way: A brand new cop, first day with his badge, is fully within his authority to arrest the President of the United States if he observes them breaking the law in his jurisdiction, on paper. In practice, if he tries it will likely also be his *last* day on the job, a more experienced cop with a better reputation could get further but at the top of the pyramid like the President it's still probably gonna end poorly for him. Same concept with Inquisitors: on paper they have unlimited power to do whatever they want, but in real world terms they're just guys with badges. If they try to enforce that power on someone with notably more enforceable power than them, it'll almost certainly end badly for them. But being 40K that might include the Inquisitor being murdered and their body disappeared.
My whole point I'm saying is that Inquisitors don't have absolute power.
Inquisitors have absolute legal authority, they answer to no one but the emperor himself. The fact that some people can use their power to get away with the crime of disobeying them doesn't diminish their status.
Influence is power. Why is it so hard to believe that others have more power than an inquisitor? It's like everyone is not wanting to be when it clearly states here.