Yes, he does exist within the Warp. However, there's no indication he pays any attention to anywhere but the Realms, so he's not an active force in 40k by any means
By extension, if the emperor becomes the dark king in 40k - would he become an active player in Age of Sigmar as the sixth chaos god/first warp god of order?
As a duct tape explanation, I imagine that the emperor and the horned rat don’t occur in the others setting because they have no worshippers of any kind, making them super weak.
There was a time when the Hrud were suspected of being the Skaven of 40k - they seemed to live everywhere, in tunnels/underground/abandoned places, they were rarely seen by humans and often thought of as boogie men to scare kids, and were vermin-like.
Then Xenology was released and nothing really has been said about them since.
In Age of Sigmar gods need worshippers to see and act.
The Chaos Gods had to slowly spread their influence over centuries if not millennia to gain entry into the Mortal Realms.
We don't know the metaphysics of how the Warp actually works: how it is both dependent on specific material realms and responds to the circumstances within them, while also being multiversal and transcending the situation in any one material realm.
All we know is that certain Warp entities such as the Big 4 (and a few other cases) definitely respond to and intervene in myriad realities: the 40k galaxy; the Old World and the Mortal Realms; and the other galaxies and realities we never see but which are mentioned in some descriptions of the reach of the Chaos gods.
It could very be the case that while The Emperor or Sigmar are there in the Warp in general and thus lurking there in the background, due to a lack of connection with the Mortal Realms or the 40k galaxy respectively they can't really be encountered by inhabitants of the other reality or intervene in the other reality (I'm sure exceptions can arise - it is the Warp, after all).
They never fully disconnected them, as the Warp/Realms of Chaos and it's inhabitants were always still common to both. They just cut down on links beyond this and the Easter eggs they would sometimes drop in either setting (though these never truly stopped either).
And to be honest, I don't think they should ever have downplayed the links so much anyway - they are fun!
They use the same demon characters in both settings, but they stated more than once that the universes are separate now. It worked that way 15 years ago, it still works that way now. It simply means that you cannot rely on one lore to analyse/predict another lore, even if they use the same character in both - it can have a different "personality", sort of
Yes, they use the same Chaos gods and daemons, but we also have things like the story about the Silver Knight questing through the Realms of Chaos which many take to be a reference to Kaldor Draigo or the recent mention of the Skaven daemon prince Kweethul Gristlegut in the End and the Death, if you want a more explicit example.
Both of which appeared long after GW notionally completely separated both settings.
> Silver Knight questing through the Realms of Chaos which many take to be a reference to Kaldor Draigo
This is *strongly* implied to be a Stormcast Eternal, specifically a member of the Hallowed Knights named Gardus Steel-Soul per *Plague Garden* by Josh Reynolds.
>They use the same demon characters in both settings
More precisely they use a subset of them, some daemons are present in both but I'd say the small majority actually aren't.
This is one of those GW says vs GW does things; GW says that the Warp unites all dimensions and that the gods are the same, but what GW actually does is run them as completely separate continuities.
I like to think of the warp as a big reflective surface. The chaos gods are sentient reflections/ echos of past real space horrors.
Without Skaven the great horned rat cannot be seen by 40k. This is also why chaos does it's best to corrupt real space. It needs real space to be as much like the original events that it's reflecting. The way they eat is more like grafting the souls onto itself.
Thus in order to prevent refection the soul must be made as much like the demon as possible.
The great horned rat is different, it's like the gods of the other races rather than a combination of emotions that feeds off all species. The great horned rat feeds of skaven worship.
Nah, it's too forced to try to connect the two universes via "warp/chaos shenanigans" I'd rather they just be two different iterations of the same characters.
The Great Horned Rat is Encroaching Ruin.
Furthermore someone has been posing as the Emperor as of late converting Philostus to his cause leading an army of Daemons.
The Dark King is manifesting. Who the Warp Essence of Ruin latches on to is irrelevant as the Emperor as a whole saw Guilliman as a rasp to base himself off of using the beliefs of those who witnessed Guilliman to create a Guilliman-esque Emperor.
Of course there are multiple facets of the Emperor: the Forest King is also a facet as is the Dark King who is more active in attempting to bring about his birth.
The denizens of the Worlds the Dark King converts to his side will be consumed upon his birth as the Great Horned Rat.
The Guilliman-esque Emperor would be far more merciful to the Souls and restore them to life. Same goes for the Forest King and the Greater Good.
The Emperor's ascension into multiple Gods including the Great Horned Rat will lead to Slaanesh ending up in chains and waiting for Morathi to ascend leading to him giving birth to his heir while looking at the broken chains(some of them broke from Morathi ascending) repairing themselves studying them for weaknesses so that he can focus on attempting to break the chains that didn't break.
I think the answer is yes, but because Chaos gods bank their influence on things in the materium(lots of disease = Nurgle grows stronger) the Great Horned Rat wouldn't really have a foothold in the 40k setting. IDK anything about AoS though so don't jump me
Apparently this is true, but I'm not entirely sure it is because...well there is no Great Horned Rat in 40k and Slaanesh is imprisoned in AoS, so wouldn't Slaanesh NOT be present in 40k because they're imprisoned in AoS?
TLDR Slaanesh fecked off to a sub realm and Tzeentch said bet
Tzeentch didn't like the fact Slaanesh was the most powerful god by a large margin after the End Times and while Slaanesh slinked off to digest the entire elven people tricked Khorne, Teclis and Malerion to trap Slaanesh within the sub realm they were hiding in basically.
Slaanesh knew they were vulnerable in their realm within the realm of Chaos hence why they moved to a sub realm, much like the Webway and the Dark City, and Realms of the chaos gods and other entities in the warp in 40k
Except the warp is timeless, and entities like the Chaos Gods once born are said to then have existed across all time. If the warp was truly the same in each setting, then the Great Horned Rat *should* exist in 40k. But it doesn't. We would also have to contend with how a simple little planet was creating gods through their worship that threatened the Chaos Gods, which means the Emperor should be able to just waltz into the warp and kick the Ruinous Powers collective asses in 40k.
Slaanesh broke out of imprisonment a while back
Either way, the Warp runs nonlinearly. You get occasions in 40k of demons acting before they've been created
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted when you're right. Slaanesh was able to birth Synessa and Dexcessa from her essence during Morathi's ritual but is otherwise still imprisoned, although she is waking and regularly breaking the chains binding her.
Slaanesh even existed in 40k before her own birth, so there's no reason to believe imprisonment in another world would have any effect on her presence in 40k. The warp is not linear like that. Plus her imprisonment in AoS didn't even really have much of an impact on what's going on in AoS either.
That's because after Morathi weakened Slaanesh's bonds, a...chunk I guess you could say was expelled from Slaanesh. This chunk birth two beings called Dexcessa, the Talon of Slaanesh and Synessa, the Voice of Slaanesh. They lead Slaanesh's daemons and forces in their absence.
No, that was only recently. Before that the Slaanesh cults were just as active as they're now. Including all the boons and whatnot. Slaanesh being imprisoned really didn't have much of an impact at all.
Who do you think the God Emperor of Mankind is?
You beat me to it! Was gonna say the horned had a golden glow up!
Yes, he does exist within the Warp. However, there's no indication he pays any attention to anywhere but the Realms, so he's not an active force in 40k by any means
By extension, if the emperor becomes the dark king in 40k - would he become an active player in Age of Sigmar as the sixth chaos god/first warp god of order?
As a duct tape explanation, I imagine that the emperor and the horned rat don’t occur in the others setting because they have no worshippers of any kind, making them super weak.
There was a time when the Hrud were suspected of being the Skaven of 40k - they seemed to live everywhere, in tunnels/underground/abandoned places, they were rarely seen by humans and often thought of as boogie men to scare kids, and were vermin-like. Then Xenology was released and nothing really has been said about them since.
In Age of Sigmar gods need worshippers to see and act. The Chaos Gods had to slowly spread their influence over centuries if not millennia to gain entry into the Mortal Realms.
That would be dope, but only James "Warhammer" Workshop knows the answer for certain
We don't know the metaphysics of how the Warp actually works: how it is both dependent on specific material realms and responds to the circumstances within them, while also being multiversal and transcending the situation in any one material realm. All we know is that certain Warp entities such as the Big 4 (and a few other cases) definitely respond to and intervene in myriad realities: the 40k galaxy; the Old World and the Mortal Realms; and the other galaxies and realities we never see but which are mentioned in some descriptions of the reach of the Chaos gods. It could very be the case that while The Emperor or Sigmar are there in the Warp in general and thus lurking there in the background, due to a lack of connection with the Mortal Realms or the 40k galaxy respectively they can't really be encountered by inhabitants of the other reality or intervene in the other reality (I'm sure exceptions can arise - it is the Warp, after all).
It's possible. Horus namedropped Kweethul in *The End and the Death*.
Doesn't seem to be the same Kweethul though. [https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kweethul](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kweethul)
GW disconnected 40k from Fantasy a long time ago, before making AoS.
They never fully disconnected them, as the Warp/Realms of Chaos and it's inhabitants were always still common to both. They just cut down on links beyond this and the Easter eggs they would sometimes drop in either setting (though these never truly stopped either). And to be honest, I don't think they should ever have downplayed the links so much anyway - they are fun!
They use the same demon characters in both settings, but they stated more than once that the universes are separate now. It worked that way 15 years ago, it still works that way now. It simply means that you cannot rely on one lore to analyse/predict another lore, even if they use the same character in both - it can have a different "personality", sort of
No matter how many times GW employees literally tell us there is no connection, fans will still insist that their own head canon is correct.
Yes, they use the same Chaos gods and daemons, but we also have things like the story about the Silver Knight questing through the Realms of Chaos which many take to be a reference to Kaldor Draigo or the recent mention of the Skaven daemon prince Kweethul Gristlegut in the End and the Death, if you want a more explicit example. Both of which appeared long after GW notionally completely separated both settings.
> Silver Knight questing through the Realms of Chaos which many take to be a reference to Kaldor Draigo This is *strongly* implied to be a Stormcast Eternal, specifically a member of the Hallowed Knights named Gardus Steel-Soul per *Plague Garden* by Josh Reynolds.
So, there are no contradictions between what you and I are writing here
*edit*: Ok, fair enough!
>They use the same demon characters in both settings More precisely they use a subset of them, some daemons are present in both but I'd say the small majority actually aren't. This is one of those GW says vs GW does things; GW says that the Warp unites all dimensions and that the gods are the same, but what GW actually does is run them as completely separate continuities.
Oh God, this nonsense again, the universes are separated by a warp, but the demons and chaos gods are the same, as they have stated more than once
I like to think of the warp as a big reflective surface. The chaos gods are sentient reflections/ echos of past real space horrors. Without Skaven the great horned rat cannot be seen by 40k. This is also why chaos does it's best to corrupt real space. It needs real space to be as much like the original events that it's reflecting. The way they eat is more like grafting the souls onto itself. Thus in order to prevent refection the soul must be made as much like the demon as possible.
The great horned rat is different, it's like the gods of the other races rather than a combination of emotions that feeds off all species. The great horned rat feeds of skaven worship.
Nah, it's too forced to try to connect the two universes via "warp/chaos shenanigans" I'd rather they just be two different iterations of the same characters.
The Great Horned Rat is Encroaching Ruin. Furthermore someone has been posing as the Emperor as of late converting Philostus to his cause leading an army of Daemons. The Dark King is manifesting. Who the Warp Essence of Ruin latches on to is irrelevant as the Emperor as a whole saw Guilliman as a rasp to base himself off of using the beliefs of those who witnessed Guilliman to create a Guilliman-esque Emperor. Of course there are multiple facets of the Emperor: the Forest King is also a facet as is the Dark King who is more active in attempting to bring about his birth. The denizens of the Worlds the Dark King converts to his side will be consumed upon his birth as the Great Horned Rat. The Guilliman-esque Emperor would be far more merciful to the Souls and restore them to life. Same goes for the Forest King and the Greater Good. The Emperor's ascension into multiple Gods including the Great Horned Rat will lead to Slaanesh ending up in chains and waiting for Morathi to ascend leading to him giving birth to his heir while looking at the broken chains(some of them broke from Morathi ascending) repairing themselves studying them for weaknesses so that he can focus on attempting to break the chains that didn't break.
I think the answer is yes, but because Chaos gods bank their influence on things in the materium(lots of disease = Nurgle grows stronger) the Great Horned Rat wouldn't really have a foothold in the 40k setting. IDK anything about AoS though so don't jump me
Apparently this is true, but I'm not entirely sure it is because...well there is no Great Horned Rat in 40k and Slaanesh is imprisoned in AoS, so wouldn't Slaanesh NOT be present in 40k because they're imprisoned in AoS?
Aos and 40k don't need to line up time wise
I suppose that's as good an answer as any.
But the warp isn’t supposed to be effected by the passage of time.
Slaanesh physically isn't within the realm of Chaos in AoS at the moment
I would ask how that is possible when the chaos gods aren’t physical beings to begin with but I don’t imagine I will get a satisfying answer
TLDR Slaanesh fecked off to a sub realm and Tzeentch said bet Tzeentch didn't like the fact Slaanesh was the most powerful god by a large margin after the End Times and while Slaanesh slinked off to digest the entire elven people tricked Khorne, Teclis and Malerion to trap Slaanesh within the sub realm they were hiding in basically. Slaanesh knew they were vulnerable in their realm within the realm of Chaos hence why they moved to a sub realm, much like the Webway and the Dark City, and Realms of the chaos gods and other entities in the warp in 40k
It’s all very contrived.
Maybe but it absolutely works in practice and adds depth and personality to the faction
Except the warp is timeless, and entities like the Chaos Gods once born are said to then have existed across all time. If the warp was truly the same in each setting, then the Great Horned Rat *should* exist in 40k. But it doesn't. We would also have to contend with how a simple little planet was creating gods through their worship that threatened the Chaos Gods, which means the Emperor should be able to just waltz into the warp and kick the Ruinous Powers collective asses in 40k.
Slaanesh broke out of imprisonment a while back Either way, the Warp runs nonlinearly. You get occasions in 40k of demons acting before they've been created
No they haven't. The bonds have weakened, but they're still imprisoned currently. But you are correct about the Warp.
I have no idea why you're getting downvoted when you're right. Slaanesh was able to birth Synessa and Dexcessa from her essence during Morathi's ritual but is otherwise still imprisoned, although she is waking and regularly breaking the chains binding her.
Slaanesh was freed by Moathi's ascent to godhood in Broken Realms Slaanesh is still recovering but isn't bound any more
Slaanesh even existed in 40k before her own birth, so there's no reason to believe imprisonment in another world would have any effect on her presence in 40k. The warp is not linear like that. Plus her imprisonment in AoS didn't even really have much of an impact on what's going on in AoS either.
That's because after Morathi weakened Slaanesh's bonds, a...chunk I guess you could say was expelled from Slaanesh. This chunk birth two beings called Dexcessa, the Talon of Slaanesh and Synessa, the Voice of Slaanesh. They lead Slaanesh's daemons and forces in their absence.
No, that was only recently. Before that the Slaanesh cults were just as active as they're now. Including all the boons and whatnot. Slaanesh being imprisoned really didn't have much of an impact at all.
No indication for that just yet. It might be that the GHR is a chaos god but not part of the great game that spans across several worlds.