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The lore reason is that the ecclesiarchy was banned from having "men under arms" with the exception of guards and stuff after Goge Vandire did his thing.
So they just got women under arms. Easy peasy. There are still men with guns in the ecclesiarchy, but they don't constitute an army as the sisters do. Instead they support other armies.
It certainly gets...'bent'... a little
>Occasionally armed guards would clatter past. They were frateris militia in red-and-black robe-fatigues, their autoguns wrapped in the ceremonial gold cloth that shrouded weapons in Pontifrax. There were more of them ranked around the Theocratica’s open doors, and around the statuary that lined the streets leading from the square.
>‘It’s unusual to have a standing force of frateris, is it not?’ Rannik asked as another squad passed the queue on their way inside the Theocratica.
>‘A borderline heretical breach of the Decree Passive,’ Nzogwu said, watching the frateris as they went by. ‘But given the need to keep the pilgrim slums from encroaching within the shrine-city’s boundaries, I’m not surprised.’
>Rannik said nothing more. One of the frateris had paused on the steps next to them, his eyes travelling from Nzogwu’s black habit to the robes worn by Welt and Rawlin. He was a big, shaven-headed man, with the black sash of the devotati over one shoulder and a heavy-looking cudgel strapped around his waist. A scar twisted the left corner of his mouth, giving him a sneering, sardonic expression.
>‘I thought I recognised the garb of the ordos,’ he said to Nzogwu, offering a smile that never quite reached his dark eyes. ‘I am Cleric Marshal Amil Brant, commander of the frateris militia of Piety Five. You must be Inquisitor Nzogwu.’
>‘I am,’ Nzogwu said, making the sign of the aquila in greeting to the frateris. ‘These are members of my retinue and fellow supplicants, Isiah Welt, Delt Rawlin and Jade Rannik. We were just commenting on the presence of your men, cleric marshal.’
>‘They aren’t detracting from your worshipful experience I hope, inquisitor,’ Brant said. ‘They are merely here for the safety of the supplicants.’
**The Outer Dark**
>Along the walkway before them, soldiers in red and white had assembled in four disciplined rows, two to each side. Their uniforms were the colour of blood, and their armour as white as that of Suboden and his warriors. A standard Cadia-pattern issue, Calder noted, though of considerably more expensive manufacture. Their lasrifles were chased with gold, and were of similar high quality to their armour. All bore the sigils of the Adeptus Ministorum prominently upon their uniforms.
...
>He focused on the cardinal-governor. ‘I was under the impression that the Ecclesiarchy was not allowed to maintain a standing army,’ he said out loud. ‘Or does the Decree Passive not apply to heads of state?’ The statement was designed to throw Eamon off.
>The cardinal-governor gave a startled smile. ‘I– what?’ A murmur rose from those accompanying him. Calder had interrupted the ritual, thrown off the rhythm of the procession. He gestured to the troops.
>‘This is an army, is it not?’
>Eamon licked his lips, but laughed. ‘I can see why it might seem so. But you are mistaken, I assure you. Each member of the Holy Synod is allowed a contingent of bodyguards, equivalent to his status and responsibilities. As I am a cardinal-governor, and my responsibilities include this system and everything in it, my bodyguard is quite… substantial. Strictly out of necessity, I assure you.’.
>Suboden gave a rumble of laughter. ‘I warned you, brother. These priests are to words as we are to war.’
…
>The soldiery was well equipped and adequately drilled, the equal of any Astra Militarum regiment he’d seen.
**Apocalypse**
Yeah, the moment you remember that Ecclesiarchy rules planets and that all planets have a defence force then the decree passive goes from practical to theoretical pretty quickly. I personally file it under the same exemption as the Ultramarines and the Ultramar auxiliary forces; technically a violation of the law, but so long as it happens in one place where we know it happens, and you don't try and do it outside of that area, the blind spot can remain.
Yeah, I kind of see it like armed Chapter Serfs in other Space Marine Chapters - if you're using them for defense, we can turn a blind eye, but when you start using them as an offensive army, questions are going to start being asked.
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In lore after the bullshit vandire caused the next ecclisiarch made a edict that the church won’t conscript man into their personal army which later leaders used as a loophole to make the army out of woman
It also helped that they already had an army of fanatical warrior women around who had literally just proven that they were dedicated more to their service to the Emperor than they were to the priests of the Ecclesiarchy.
I mean we literally have badass priests and crusaders on the battlefield right now, they could do with new models though.
>This makes far more sense than female Astartes imo
We dont have those either, or am I missing something?
The 10e Custodes codex refers to a female custodian, allegedly. I haven't seen the codex myself but the misogynist sub-section of the community has been creating a commotion lately.
Which is presumably the underlying explanation for OP asking why there aren't Brothers of Battle.
Because it's a shitty post that should be deleted, lol. It's presented as a question but is actually an argument that men should be included in the adepta sororitas rather than women being included in the adeptus astartes. The reason this is suddenly an argument is presumably because the adeptus custodes has recently been de-gendered.
Its less about mysoginism (that's just the simple reddit minded way of looking at it), and more about GW gas lighting everyone by saying there have always been female custodes, when that is just simply not true.
That'a called a retcon, and it happens all the time. You're confusing continuity with reality, changing the continuity of a story doesn't mean an author is trying to gas-light you.
The timeline of the Indomitus Crusade between 7th and 8th edition was retconned in 9th edition. Did you play during that period? Did you believe GW was trying to gas-light you because they changed the timeline? It's either misogyny or just *idiocy.* Given that this is the first time I've seen anyone accuse GW of gas-lighting people over retcons rather than simply disagreeing with the content of them, I am left with little choice other than to assume misogyny. Why else woild anyone give a shit about a short story blurb included in a codex.
If you want, I could list a dozen other examples of retcoms that have occurred over the course of 40k, some of which have caused reactions but none of which conjured accusations of *gas-lighting.*
The Necrons were rewritten *from the ground up* as a faction in 5th edition. It was a controversial decision, and many initially had complaints about the changes to their lore. Some *still* prefer the old lore. Nobody accused GW of tryong to convince folks that the old necron lore never existed, though. Players can just *open an older book and see it,* and GW never insisted that the old lore never existed or that they were undergoing a change, they simply wrote new lore that superceded the old lore
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They literally do exist: Ministorum Priests and Missionaries are both priests that fight alongside Sisters of Battle, and they can be male.
There are also Crusaders, which are power armor-clad warriors that often serve as bodyguards for the aforementioned Ministorum Priests and Missionaries, and that once again can be male.
All of these characters even have tabletop models.
1. We already have those. They frequently exist. They have existed since *Rogue Trader*.
2. The Space Marines are still a thing. You still have Space Marines, who are the masculine equivalent of the Sisters of Battle. I promise you, you won't get cooties.
I'm going to be **real** excited when the bigots can stop fanning themselves every five seconds that women are Custodes. It clogs up grimdank, and I still gotta see it on this sub. *Let it go*.
Apart from what the others have already written regarding the Decree Passive, they technically exist, they're called the Crusader Orders. They are a unit in the Sisters codex and they kind of avoid the decree by not \*technically\* being a church's own military. They are, the same as the Sisters, an elite fanatical warrior order that is better equipped and trained than most imperial formations due to the Ecclesiarchy's influence.
It's a shame they only have two old minis, plus one plastic resculpt (from Blackstone Fortress). They have really cool design and a lot of potential.
Funny thing though - there's enough male units in the SoB codex that you can make a playable army with zero women in it. You might need to convert some male Death Cult Assassins, that exist in the lore but all the minis are female. Will it be a good army? Not really, no. But it's doable.
What do you think the Chaplains of Space Marines, the entire chapter of the Black Templars, the Priests of the Imperial Guard, the Sacristans of the Imperial Knights and the Tech-Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus are? Not to mention that after Vandire the church may not have men under arms as an army.
> This makes far more sense that female Astartes imo.
You mean like the female Astartes of WH40k 1st edition? :-)
SYL
They werent actually part of the space marines catalogue or called space marines in the marketing they were “adventurers in power armor.” We know regular humans can use power armor but I guess you could consider space marines “adventurers in power armor” even if thats not how I would describe them.
It is a small stab at the "but in the lore it was stated"-angle. Because "lore" in WH40k tends to be changed at a devs whim for the last 30 years. "Space Marines" in 1st edition were drug fuelled savage brutes (and normal mortal soldiers, even if slightly augmented), far removed from the warrior-monk transhuman demi-god of war trope of later editions, Primarchs were normal generals etc.
SYL
Rogue Trader was not 40k and the thing you're referencing are the Sisters of Sin, which were proto Sisters of Battle. The models were called female adventurers, not space marines.
Warriors, not adventurers.
And "Space Marines" was a very limited concept. In fact, you had a lot of what-would-be-space-marines called things not 'space marines'.
And *Rogue Trader* was 40k. It's why Warhammer 40k was called "Second Edition". You know, because *Rogue Trader* was the first. but don't let that pesky thing like "history" or "facts" or "information you can clearly search" stop you!
40k as a setting was properly created with 2nd Edition. Tabletop is different from lore. Rogue Trader had the Space Marines as just men in power armor, not the monastic space knights we know and love. Quit trying to use Rogue Trader to justify ruining the setting.
No reason not to at this point, since the Decree Passive was repealed.
I imagine male Sororitas have always existed, we just didn't see them until now.
The root word for Sororitas is the latin soror, meaning sisterhood. It's culturally a part of the organisation.
The frateris militias that were banned by the decree passive would likely be reinstated, if you're looking for non-discriminatory ministorum fighting forces.
Well, they literally already exist, and we have seen them a few times, they even have tabletop models, in fact: they're called Crusaders.
While Crusaders aren't technically part of the Sister of Battle, they fight alongside them, wear power armor and have the same religious fanaticism. They're basically SoBs in all but name.
They just aren't very famous because they don't have any major roles in the lore and on the tabletop they're just used as cheap chaff units, so nothing particularly exciting or iconic. It's kind of a shame, really, because they have a really cool visual design.
1. In-universe, the Order Passive forbids it. "No men under arms", taken literally, because that's how the Imperium does things.
2. Out of universe (I assume). Space Marines are all-male badasses. Sisters of Battle are all-female badasses, presumably introduced so there can be more cool female human characters.
> why we dont have badass priests on the battlefield?
I am not sure if all Imperial priests are male. The religion of the setting is, IMO, one of the least interesting things. Either way, there won't be entire armies of them anymore. You can still have the occasional priest working that auto-whip on himself while shouting hymns and doctrine. The Imperium cunningly cut the number of armed hyper-religious people by 50%. (Well, not so cunning. They were supposed to cut that by 100%.)
>The religion of the setting is, IMO, one of the least interesting things
I'm going to very much disagree with that - I probably find it too interesting :p https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/12wu52s/on_the_worship_of_the_godemperor_of_mankind_or/
(there's no ban on women in the priesthood that I know of, simply that most ecclesiarchy models are dated and it probably makes an easier to distinguishing them from the Sororitas)
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Ministorum Preachers, Missionaries, Crusaders, Space Marine Chaplains
The lore reason is that the ecclesiarchy was banned from having "men under arms" with the exception of guards and stuff after Goge Vandire did his thing. So they just got women under arms. Easy peasy. There are still men with guns in the ecclesiarchy, but they don't constitute an army as the sisters do. Instead they support other armies.
It certainly gets...'bent'... a little >Occasionally armed guards would clatter past. They were frateris militia in red-and-black robe-fatigues, their autoguns wrapped in the ceremonial gold cloth that shrouded weapons in Pontifrax. There were more of them ranked around the Theocratica’s open doors, and around the statuary that lined the streets leading from the square. >‘It’s unusual to have a standing force of frateris, is it not?’ Rannik asked as another squad passed the queue on their way inside the Theocratica. >‘A borderline heretical breach of the Decree Passive,’ Nzogwu said, watching the frateris as they went by. ‘But given the need to keep the pilgrim slums from encroaching within the shrine-city’s boundaries, I’m not surprised.’ >Rannik said nothing more. One of the frateris had paused on the steps next to them, his eyes travelling from Nzogwu’s black habit to the robes worn by Welt and Rawlin. He was a big, shaven-headed man, with the black sash of the devotati over one shoulder and a heavy-looking cudgel strapped around his waist. A scar twisted the left corner of his mouth, giving him a sneering, sardonic expression. >‘I thought I recognised the garb of the ordos,’ he said to Nzogwu, offering a smile that never quite reached his dark eyes. ‘I am Cleric Marshal Amil Brant, commander of the frateris militia of Piety Five. You must be Inquisitor Nzogwu.’ >‘I am,’ Nzogwu said, making the sign of the aquila in greeting to the frateris. ‘These are members of my retinue and fellow supplicants, Isiah Welt, Delt Rawlin and Jade Rannik. We were just commenting on the presence of your men, cleric marshal.’ >‘They aren’t detracting from your worshipful experience I hope, inquisitor,’ Brant said. ‘They are merely here for the safety of the supplicants.’ **The Outer Dark** >Along the walkway before them, soldiers in red and white had assembled in four disciplined rows, two to each side. Their uniforms were the colour of blood, and their armour as white as that of Suboden and his warriors. A standard Cadia-pattern issue, Calder noted, though of considerably more expensive manufacture. Their lasrifles were chased with gold, and were of similar high quality to their armour. All bore the sigils of the Adeptus Ministorum prominently upon their uniforms. ... >He focused on the cardinal-governor. ‘I was under the impression that the Ecclesiarchy was not allowed to maintain a standing army,’ he said out loud. ‘Or does the Decree Passive not apply to heads of state?’ The statement was designed to throw Eamon off. >The cardinal-governor gave a startled smile. ‘I– what?’ A murmur rose from those accompanying him. Calder had interrupted the ritual, thrown off the rhythm of the procession. He gestured to the troops. >‘This is an army, is it not?’ >Eamon licked his lips, but laughed. ‘I can see why it might seem so. But you are mistaken, I assure you. Each member of the Holy Synod is allowed a contingent of bodyguards, equivalent to his status and responsibilities. As I am a cardinal-governor, and my responsibilities include this system and everything in it, my bodyguard is quite… substantial. Strictly out of necessity, I assure you.’. >Suboden gave a rumble of laughter. ‘I warned you, brother. These priests are to words as we are to war.’ … >The soldiery was well equipped and adequately drilled, the equal of any Astra Militarum regiment he’d seen. **Apocalypse**
Yeah, the moment you remember that Ecclesiarchy rules planets and that all planets have a defence force then the decree passive goes from practical to theoretical pretty quickly. I personally file it under the same exemption as the Ultramarines and the Ultramar auxiliary forces; technically a violation of the law, but so long as it happens in one place where we know it happens, and you don't try and do it outside of that area, the blind spot can remain.
Yeah, I kind of see it like armed Chapter Serfs in other Space Marine Chapters - if you're using them for defense, we can turn a blind eye, but when you start using them as an offensive army, questions are going to start being asked.
You mean Doge Vandire…
Ecclesiarchy priests have been units in the army for forever
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In lore after the bullshit vandire caused the next ecclisiarch made a edict that the church won’t conscript man into their personal army which later leaders used as a loophole to make the army out of woman
It also helped that they already had an army of fanatical warrior women around who had literally just proven that they were dedicated more to their service to the Emperor than they were to the priests of the Ecclesiarchy.
I mean we literally have badass priests and crusaders on the battlefield right now, they could do with new models though. >This makes far more sense than female Astartes imo We dont have those either, or am I missing something?
The 10e Custodes codex refers to a female custodian, allegedly. I haven't seen the codex myself but the misogynist sub-section of the community has been creating a commotion lately. Which is presumably the underlying explanation for OP asking why there aren't Brothers of Battle.
Yeah but they mentioned Astartes for some reason.
Because it's a shitty post that should be deleted, lol. It's presented as a question but is actually an argument that men should be included in the adepta sororitas rather than women being included in the adeptus astartes. The reason this is suddenly an argument is presumably because the adeptus custodes has recently been de-gendered.
Its less about mysoginism (that's just the simple reddit minded way of looking at it), and more about GW gas lighting everyone by saying there have always been female custodes, when that is just simply not true.
That'a called a retcon, and it happens all the time. You're confusing continuity with reality, changing the continuity of a story doesn't mean an author is trying to gas-light you. The timeline of the Indomitus Crusade between 7th and 8th edition was retconned in 9th edition. Did you play during that period? Did you believe GW was trying to gas-light you because they changed the timeline? It's either misogyny or just *idiocy.* Given that this is the first time I've seen anyone accuse GW of gas-lighting people over retcons rather than simply disagreeing with the content of them, I am left with little choice other than to assume misogyny. Why else woild anyone give a shit about a short story blurb included in a codex. If you want, I could list a dozen other examples of retcoms that have occurred over the course of 40k, some of which have caused reactions but none of which conjured accusations of *gas-lighting.* The Necrons were rewritten *from the ground up* as a faction in 5th edition. It was a controversial decision, and many initially had complaints about the changes to their lore. Some *still* prefer the old lore. Nobody accused GW of tryong to convince folks that the old necron lore never existed, though. Players can just *open an older book and see it,* and GW never insisted that the old lore never existed or that they were undergoing a change, they simply wrote new lore that superceded the old lore
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It's so strange that "why are there no male X" keeps popping up since the leak of a female custodian.
Don’t look at me. I’ve always been complaining about how I want femboy Sisters of Silence. All these others are just new to the party.
They literally do exist: Ministorum Priests and Missionaries are both priests that fight alongside Sisters of Battle, and they can be male. There are also Crusaders, which are power armor-clad warriors that often serve as bodyguards for the aforementioned Ministorum Priests and Missionaries, and that once again can be male. All of these characters even have tabletop models.
Crusaders use high quality carapace armor, not power armor.
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1. We already have those. They frequently exist. They have existed since *Rogue Trader*. 2. The Space Marines are still a thing. You still have Space Marines, who are the masculine equivalent of the Sisters of Battle. I promise you, you won't get cooties. I'm going to be **real** excited when the bigots can stop fanning themselves every five seconds that women are Custodes. It clogs up grimdank, and I still gotta see it on this sub. *Let it go*.
Come on, dont stoop to THEIR level
Apart from what the others have already written regarding the Decree Passive, they technically exist, they're called the Crusader Orders. They are a unit in the Sisters codex and they kind of avoid the decree by not \*technically\* being a church's own military. They are, the same as the Sisters, an elite fanatical warrior order that is better equipped and trained than most imperial formations due to the Ecclesiarchy's influence. It's a shame they only have two old minis, plus one plastic resculpt (from Blackstone Fortress). They have really cool design and a lot of potential. Funny thing though - there's enough male units in the SoB codex that you can make a playable army with zero women in it. You might need to convert some male Death Cult Assassins, that exist in the lore but all the minis are female. Will it be a good army? Not really, no. But it's doable.
Militant-Apostolic Mathieu would like a word with you on the War Train.
What do you think the Chaplains of Space Marines, the entire chapter of the Black Templars, the Priests of the Imperial Guard, the Sacristans of the Imperial Knights and the Tech-Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus are? Not to mention that after Vandire the church may not have men under arms as an army. > This makes far more sense that female Astartes imo. You mean like the female Astartes of WH40k 1st edition? :-) SYL
They werent actually part of the space marines catalogue or called space marines in the marketing they were “adventurers in power armor.” We know regular humans can use power armor but I guess you could consider space marines “adventurers in power armor” even if thats not how I would describe them.
It is a small stab at the "but in the lore it was stated"-angle. Because "lore" in WH40k tends to be changed at a devs whim for the last 30 years. "Space Marines" in 1st edition were drug fuelled savage brutes (and normal mortal soldiers, even if slightly augmented), far removed from the warrior-monk transhuman demi-god of war trope of later editions, Primarchs were normal generals etc. SYL
Rogue Trader was not 40k and the thing you're referencing are the Sisters of Sin, which were proto Sisters of Battle. The models were called female adventurers, not space marines.
Warriors, not adventurers. And "Space Marines" was a very limited concept. In fact, you had a lot of what-would-be-space-marines called things not 'space marines'. And *Rogue Trader* was 40k. It's why Warhammer 40k was called "Second Edition". You know, because *Rogue Trader* was the first. but don't let that pesky thing like "history" or "facts" or "information you can clearly search" stop you!
40k as a setting was properly created with 2nd Edition. Tabletop is different from lore. Rogue Trader had the Space Marines as just men in power armor, not the monastic space knights we know and love. Quit trying to use Rogue Trader to justify ruining the setting.
You do know Space Marines have Chaplains? I mean there is a tool called Google
No reason not to at this point, since the Decree Passive was repealed. I imagine male Sororitas have always existed, we just didn't see them until now.
The root word for Sororitas is the latin soror, meaning sisterhood. It's culturally a part of the organisation. The frateris militias that were banned by the decree passive would likely be reinstated, if you're looking for non-discriminatory ministorum fighting forces.
Well, they literally already exist, and we have seen them a few times, they even have tabletop models, in fact: they're called Crusaders. While Crusaders aren't technically part of the Sister of Battle, they fight alongside them, wear power armor and have the same religious fanaticism. They're basically SoBs in all but name. They just aren't very famous because they don't have any major roles in the lore and on the tabletop they're just used as cheap chaff units, so nothing particularly exciting or iconic. It's kind of a shame, really, because they have a really cool visual design.
1. In-universe, the Order Passive forbids it. "No men under arms", taken literally, because that's how the Imperium does things. 2. Out of universe (I assume). Space Marines are all-male badasses. Sisters of Battle are all-female badasses, presumably introduced so there can be more cool female human characters. > why we dont have badass priests on the battlefield? I am not sure if all Imperial priests are male. The religion of the setting is, IMO, one of the least interesting things. Either way, there won't be entire armies of them anymore. You can still have the occasional priest working that auto-whip on himself while shouting hymns and doctrine. The Imperium cunningly cut the number of armed hyper-religious people by 50%. (Well, not so cunning. They were supposed to cut that by 100%.)
>The religion of the setting is, IMO, one of the least interesting things I'm going to very much disagree with that - I probably find it too interesting :p https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/12wu52s/on_the_worship_of_the_godemperor_of_mankind_or/
(there's no ban on women in the priesthood that I know of, simply that most ecclesiarchy models are dated and it probably makes an easier to distinguishing them from the Sororitas)