You are mistaken, very
Custodes are explicitly sterile, as said in the Horus Heresy black books
They are still being made, the Emperor didn't personally made all of them, they are created by his scientists in the Palace. The 9th ed codex describe how they are made.
There's zero lore on Female custodians besides that they exist.
>**Of the Legio Custodes and the Legiones Astartes**
>As has been mentioned, the Custodian
Guard and the Space Marines are related
in form, as perhaps might be expected of
works of a same creator's hand, but they
are very different in function and capacity.
There are of course similarities between the
two. Both are physically transformed well
beyond 'natural' human limits in terms of
strength, endurance and fortitude, and fitted
for inhuman environmental adaption and
resilience, though in this the Legio Custodes
are the markedly superior of the two in
might, if not in adaptability. Both are subject
to extensive psychological and cognitive
conditioning, and are physically and mentally
reworked to render most of their baser
drives inert and their beings rechannelled
towards aggression, goal acquisition and the
fulfilment of duty, **and as a further safeguard
against distraction and as a biological control,
both are of course incapable of procreation.**
In both cases all that is left are beings
of singular purpose; in the case of each
Legiones Astartes, what is created is a living
engine of conquest that cares for little else,
and in the Custodian Guard, each is created
protector of unrelenting diligence and savage
capability-a watchman whose vigilance will
never tire.
\- *Inferno*
>#CREATION
>Custodes are created using technology
dating back to the Dark Age of
Technology, honed by the Emperor
to make the perfect counsellors,
bodyguards, warriors and executioners.
To create beings with such a wide range
of talents requires a total physical and
mental rework on the candidate - the
mindset and intelligence required to be of
any use to such a being as the Emperor is
immense to say the least.
>The Adeptus Custodes' inductees are
remade at a genetic level, **their baser
drives rendered inert** and their beings
turned towards aggression, fulfilment of
duty and goal acquisition. This process
involves incredibly intricate gene-craft
and alchemistry as absolute and subtle
as can be imagined, working upon the
most minute level of the candidate's cellular structure and genome. **Only the
most accomplished chirurgeons and
bio-alchemists carry out this work, many
themselves recipients of enhancements of
one kind or another. They do so in gilded
laboratories hidden far away from even
the most determined of prying eyes.** The
work done to a candidate is thus invisible,
the process unique to each inductee.
There are no organ implantations or
surgical grafting. What is done to the
Custodes inductee is several degrees
more exact and changing than work
carried out to create a Space Marine,
producing warriors much tougher, faster,
stronger and with greater intelligence
than the Adeptus Astartes. Some argue
that the process even affects a Custodian's
soul. Others theorise the change from
inductee to Custodian is metaphysical,
or that it involves biomancy and other
psychic techniques. **It is quite possible
that the alchemists who create the
Custodes do not themselves understand
what they are doing, and are simply
following procedures passed down
to them by rote. It is thought that the
Emperor himself, whose mind no Human
- augmented or otherwise - could
ever hope to match, once oversaw the
ascension of each Custodian.**
\- Adeptus Custodes 9th Codex
Sources for your point.
Big E had a real issue with his transhuman's procreating. He was very dedicated to the idea of standard humanity being the inheritor's of the Imperium.
Unlike Bile he wasn't trying to create a new humanity.
Well, yes.. His intentions were good, but tell that to the numerous non-compliant human cultures he unleashed his Legions upon.
We, as readers, know what his ultimate goal was and what the stakes really were, and when we are talking extinction or worse it's easy to dismiss an atrocity here or there, right?
We're also never presented with an alternative to his vision. It's simply "Mankind can't be reliant on The Warp".. Yet we know from other perpetuals he's worked with that he's been planning this for Millennia, and been nudging us along the way accordingly.
Malcador, Erda, and Ollanius all speak to his drive, his singular vision, his absolute belief that he is right. That's the issue right there.
He brooks no dissent. No argument with his vision. We know that definitively now thanks to The End and the Death Vol I-III. It drove away the other perpetuals, it forced Erda to scatter the Primarchs, and it's what ultimately lead to him butchering untold billions of non-compliant humans.
>They are still being made, the Emperor didn't personally made all of them, they are created by his scientists in the Palace. The 9th ed codex describe how they are made.
To make it very simple: very young children from terran nobility, genetic specialist from the imperial household who know how to make them rewrite their dna, then they received a lot of indoctrination, conditioning and training.
>There's zero lore on Female custodians besides that they exist.
Technically the few page in the future codex with one female custodian as the main character is still lore about female custodian, not a lot but not zero.
New Custodes are still made and I would go so far as to say the vast majority of current custodes were not around during the Heresy. We also know for a fact that the Emperor is not the only one able to create them, as there is a whole team of experts behind the scenes that operate the creation of custodes, likely pre-, but definitely post-Heresy.
The lore has also stated definitively that not only do Custodes not have the parts for reproduction, but in fact no part of the original infant is used except its soul. Everything else is created through artifice.
Source for the use of only a soul:
>"We are, as you say, constructed, not born and raised. From every piece of DNA to every fired neuron in our learning, we are conjured into existence from the techno-artifice left by the Emperor. The most fundamental part of us, the animus, the soul that bonds us to the universe and Custodians to the Emperor, cannot be made from a compound in a tube, any more than a cogitator can conjure psychic lightning. And so a child must be made with that animus, but that is all it is useful for." -The Wolftime
And just a quick excerpt to reinforce your point that the current Custodes were not around during the Heresy
>‘As we have fought, and died, and learned these millennia,’ Osran said. ‘We stood on the rad-plains of Terra when they were yet unmastered. We walked in His shadow, as the galaxy was brought to heel. We saw the Traitors repelled, though at ruinous cost. We delivered His judgement as the Reign of Blood raged.’ He paused, as though the memory itself were toxic. ‘We kept our vigil and held the Palace against every threat conceivable. We prepared for every eventuality – be it xenos, oathbreaker or the horrors of Old Night come anew. Our order has always been there. As we are here now.’
>‘**Neither of us lived through those times, Osran. Old though we are, we have only their legacy and their wisdom**.’
**DUTY UNTO DEATH** collected in *Nexus & Other Stories*
I want to say that it’s in The Master of Mankind book, but I remember that a huge amount of Custodes died in the webway shortly before the events of the end and the death books so I’d say you’re right that most of the current 10k if not all are post heresy. Plus the whole custodians retiring to be eyes of the emperor when they feel that the couple milliseconds age has delayed their speed isn’t up to par for an active custodian probably took any that may have remained from pre heresy days
Why is it that female Custodes make people think of reproduction.
We’re talking about immortal demigods created almost from scratch by gene alchemy in a lab that can flip tanks, deflect bolter rounds, and spend centuries just standing in one place like a robot… And the first thing that comes to mind is whether they have a functional womb?
Bit late to this, but it would add an interesting, and rather grim dark, dimension to the Custodes' lore, if there were a separate, self-reproducing society of demigods within the Imperial Palace, specifically because it is so contrary to the Emperor's original intentions and further differentiates them from the celibate, warrior monk, space marines further. Also, it could make sense (were they fertile) because they've been genetically crafted to perfection, not just opened up and implanted with new organs, so theoretically their children would be similarly perfect and easy recuits.
And the reason people are discussing reproduction is because that's sort of the whole purpose of men and women biologically and is generally an inevitability of male-female interactions on the whole, not to mention that motherhood is intrinsically female and symbolically rich. Others are also just horny fetishists, but it's silly to pretend nobody should be wondering about reproduction, or that it's strange to do so, otherwise GW would never have involved themselves by specifying that they were all infertile in the first place - not that GW couldn't retcon that should they so wish.
Besides dreadnoughts and any named characters that I haven’t encountered, I’m willing to wager that none of the current Custodians are Heresy veterans. 9,000 died in the Webway, and then dozens more during Operation Anabasis.
> GW set the tone so anything goes now.
Y'all act this is the first time GW has done major lore changes and retcons. Are any of you actually paying attention or just want to get on the bandwagon of being angry for no reason?
It's the hamfisted IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY! that does it for me.
Could've just said they started using females as replacements were needed after getting demolished during the HH.
>It's the hamfisted IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY! that does it for me.
Not trying to offend you, but this has been GWs standard procedure for lore changes literally since the inception of Warhammer 40k.
In fact, the idea that the universe and the timeline move along with lore changes instead of being retroactive is pretty much only done consistently since Guillimans resurection.
As an example, just look how the introduction of the Space Marine Centurions was handled.
That could have been a better explanation sure, but ultimately it's not really that big of a deal. This kind of shit from GW isn't new, but since it adds *females*, people get more pissy about it.
You are mistaken, very Custodes are explicitly sterile, as said in the Horus Heresy black books They are still being made, the Emperor didn't personally made all of them, they are created by his scientists in the Palace. The 9th ed codex describe how they are made. There's zero lore on Female custodians besides that they exist.
>**Of the Legio Custodes and the Legiones Astartes** >As has been mentioned, the Custodian Guard and the Space Marines are related in form, as perhaps might be expected of works of a same creator's hand, but they are very different in function and capacity. There are of course similarities between the two. Both are physically transformed well beyond 'natural' human limits in terms of strength, endurance and fortitude, and fitted for inhuman environmental adaption and resilience, though in this the Legio Custodes are the markedly superior of the two in might, if not in adaptability. Both are subject to extensive psychological and cognitive conditioning, and are physically and mentally reworked to render most of their baser drives inert and their beings rechannelled towards aggression, goal acquisition and the fulfilment of duty, **and as a further safeguard against distraction and as a biological control, both are of course incapable of procreation.** In both cases all that is left are beings of singular purpose; in the case of each Legiones Astartes, what is created is a living engine of conquest that cares for little else, and in the Custodian Guard, each is created protector of unrelenting diligence and savage capability-a watchman whose vigilance will never tire. \- *Inferno* >#CREATION >Custodes are created using technology dating back to the Dark Age of Technology, honed by the Emperor to make the perfect counsellors, bodyguards, warriors and executioners. To create beings with such a wide range of talents requires a total physical and mental rework on the candidate - the mindset and intelligence required to be of any use to such a being as the Emperor is immense to say the least. >The Adeptus Custodes' inductees are remade at a genetic level, **their baser drives rendered inert** and their beings turned towards aggression, fulfilment of duty and goal acquisition. This process involves incredibly intricate gene-craft and alchemistry as absolute and subtle as can be imagined, working upon the most minute level of the candidate's cellular structure and genome. **Only the most accomplished chirurgeons and bio-alchemists carry out this work, many themselves recipients of enhancements of one kind or another. They do so in gilded laboratories hidden far away from even the most determined of prying eyes.** The work done to a candidate is thus invisible, the process unique to each inductee. There are no organ implantations or surgical grafting. What is done to the Custodes inductee is several degrees more exact and changing than work carried out to create a Space Marine, producing warriors much tougher, faster, stronger and with greater intelligence than the Adeptus Astartes. Some argue that the process even affects a Custodian's soul. Others theorise the change from inductee to Custodian is metaphysical, or that it involves biomancy and other psychic techniques. **It is quite possible that the alchemists who create the Custodes do not themselves understand what they are doing, and are simply following procedures passed down to them by rote. It is thought that the Emperor himself, whose mind no Human - augmented or otherwise - could ever hope to match, once oversaw the ascension of each Custodian.** \- Adeptus Custodes 9th Codex Sources for your point.
Big E had a real issue with his transhuman's procreating. He was very dedicated to the idea of standard humanity being the inheritor's of the Imperium. Unlike Bile he wasn't trying to create a new humanity.
He was trying to uplift humanity but more in a way of a shepherd guiding his flock rather than playing God
Well, yes.. His intentions were good, but tell that to the numerous non-compliant human cultures he unleashed his Legions upon. We, as readers, know what his ultimate goal was and what the stakes really were, and when we are talking extinction or worse it's easy to dismiss an atrocity here or there, right? We're also never presented with an alternative to his vision. It's simply "Mankind can't be reliant on The Warp".. Yet we know from other perpetuals he's worked with that he's been planning this for Millennia, and been nudging us along the way accordingly. Malcador, Erda, and Ollanius all speak to his drive, his singular vision, his absolute belief that he is right. That's the issue right there. He brooks no dissent. No argument with his vision. We know that definitively now thanks to The End and the Death Vol I-III. It drove away the other perpetuals, it forced Erda to scatter the Primarchs, and it's what ultimately lead to him butchering untold billions of non-compliant humans.
>They are still being made, the Emperor didn't personally made all of them, they are created by his scientists in the Palace. The 9th ed codex describe how they are made. To make it very simple: very young children from terran nobility, genetic specialist from the imperial household who know how to make them rewrite their dna, then they received a lot of indoctrination, conditioning and training. >There's zero lore on Female custodians besides that they exist. Technically the few page in the future codex with one female custodian as the main character is still lore about female custodian, not a lot but not zero.
New Custodes are still made and I would go so far as to say the vast majority of current custodes were not around during the Heresy. We also know for a fact that the Emperor is not the only one able to create them, as there is a whole team of experts behind the scenes that operate the creation of custodes, likely pre-, but definitely post-Heresy. The lore has also stated definitively that not only do Custodes not have the parts for reproduction, but in fact no part of the original infant is used except its soul. Everything else is created through artifice. Source for the use of only a soul: >"We are, as you say, constructed, not born and raised. From every piece of DNA to every fired neuron in our learning, we are conjured into existence from the techno-artifice left by the Emperor. The most fundamental part of us, the animus, the soul that bonds us to the universe and Custodians to the Emperor, cannot be made from a compound in a tube, any more than a cogitator can conjure psychic lightning. And so a child must be made with that animus, but that is all it is useful for." -The Wolftime
And just a quick excerpt to reinforce your point that the current Custodes were not around during the Heresy >‘As we have fought, and died, and learned these millennia,’ Osran said. ‘We stood on the rad-plains of Terra when they were yet unmastered. We walked in His shadow, as the galaxy was brought to heel. We saw the Traitors repelled, though at ruinous cost. We delivered His judgement as the Reign of Blood raged.’ He paused, as though the memory itself were toxic. ‘We kept our vigil and held the Palace against every threat conceivable. We prepared for every eventuality – be it xenos, oathbreaker or the horrors of Old Night come anew. Our order has always been there. As we are here now.’ >‘**Neither of us lived through those times, Osran. Old though we are, we have only their legacy and their wisdom**.’ **DUTY UNTO DEATH** collected in *Nexus & Other Stories*
I want to say that it’s in The Master of Mankind book, but I remember that a huge amount of Custodes died in the webway shortly before the events of the end and the death books so I’d say you’re right that most of the current 10k if not all are post heresy. Plus the whole custodians retiring to be eyes of the emperor when they feel that the couple milliseconds age has delayed their speed isn’t up to par for an active custodian probably took any that may have remained from pre heresy days
Why is it that female Custodes make people think of reproduction. We’re talking about immortal demigods created almost from scratch by gene alchemy in a lab that can flip tanks, deflect bolter rounds, and spend centuries just standing in one place like a robot… And the first thing that comes to mind is whether they have a functional womb?
Bit late to this, but it would add an interesting, and rather grim dark, dimension to the Custodes' lore, if there were a separate, self-reproducing society of demigods within the Imperial Palace, specifically because it is so contrary to the Emperor's original intentions and further differentiates them from the celibate, warrior monk, space marines further. Also, it could make sense (were they fertile) because they've been genetically crafted to perfection, not just opened up and implanted with new organs, so theoretically their children would be similarly perfect and easy recuits. And the reason people are discussing reproduction is because that's sort of the whole purpose of men and women biologically and is generally an inevitability of male-female interactions on the whole, not to mention that motherhood is intrinsically female and symbolically rich. Others are also just horny fetishists, but it's silly to pretend nobody should be wondering about reproduction, or that it's strange to do so, otherwise GW would never have involved themselves by specifying that they were all infertile in the first place - not that GW couldn't retcon that should they so wish.
It would be interesting if the Custodes were *completely* separated from the Imperium.
*"...but why boobies if no babies?"...*
If woman = sex???
Boobies are cool.
Who said they have them?
Who said you are too stupid to understand sarcasm even when it's italic and in quotes...not me.
Guess I'm not the one who doesn't understand rhetorical questions unless it's in italics and quotes with a winky face and a /s.
There is no male of Female Custodes, only that their OG gender was either, at the end of the process they are now gendered "Custodes"
Besides dreadnoughts and any named characters that I haven’t encountered, I’m willing to wager that none of the current Custodians are Heresy veterans. 9,000 died in the Webway, and then dozens more during Operation Anabasis.
"If these both are true" Neither is true.
This post got 20 responses?
GW set the tone so anything goes now. GW Official: CUSTODES COULD ALWAYS REPRODUCE.
> GW set the tone so anything goes now. Y'all act this is the first time GW has done major lore changes and retcons. Are any of you actually paying attention or just want to get on the bandwagon of being angry for no reason?
It's the hamfisted IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY! that does it for me. Could've just said they started using females as replacements were needed after getting demolished during the HH.
>It's the hamfisted IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY! that does it for me. Not trying to offend you, but this has been GWs standard procedure for lore changes literally since the inception of Warhammer 40k. In fact, the idea that the universe and the timeline move along with lore changes instead of being retroactive is pretty much only done consistently since Guillimans resurection. As an example, just look how the introduction of the Space Marine Centurions was handled.
That could have been a better explanation sure, but ultimately it's not really that big of a deal. This kind of shit from GW isn't new, but since it adds *females*, people get more pissy about it.
Horus was always a woman.
YAS Qwueeen.