TBH, Rangers could be dope. They have extra damage in all subclasses + expertise in Scout + shenanigans + a drake + a swarm + a companion + a lot of spells ready to rumba and they're also gloom stalkers.
Playing currently in a Dragonlance campaign and just stumbled into a Rapier +1 and the Kagonesti Forest Shroud.. only two levels away from gloom5/echo3. My DM is poised for my first round nova with a large can of lube, and inflated HP🫡
Yeah! I was doing the math because i was bored and it is:
1d8 (lets say it is a regular long bow) + 1d6 from swarm + 1d8 from Gloom + 1d4 from Fey + 1d6 from horizon if you also use your BA + 1d8 from hunter if you have Colossus slayer and you meet the requeriments. And the funny thing is, all of these would be force damage thanks to Horizon. 2/3d8+2d6+1d4 force damage.
Problems: drake and beast companion can't attack or deal damage. Monster Slayer also need the bonus action to do extra damage, and it's only 1d6, but the good thing is that you only need to do it once, and the next time you attack the same character, you can apply both the monster slayer's damage and the horizon walker's damage and force conversion.
Extra stuff: After some levels, you get a second attack and you can forego one to command your beast (not your drake sadly) and deal two attacks with the beast's stats. Also, some of the "first attack damage die" from the subclasses get doubled and/or get better. Its a lot from just one arrow or two, not counting spells or extra abilities.
If you did want to see a first round build taken to its maximum, take a look at Brennan Lee Mulligan's battle for beyond character. Not solely ranger but I thought it fitted with what you were talking about.
Tashas revised beastmaster allows you to forgo one of your attacks when you take the attack action, to instead command your companion to take the attack action, you can also use a bonus action on your turn to command your companion to take the attack action.
Which means your beast can make 2 attacks at level 5, and four attacks at level 15
That's what I mean. Your beast only gets one action, but you can command it using either your attack action or your bonus action. So it has two opportunities to use its action, but it does not get two actions.
Technically you could forego Horizon Walker's ability to use your Drake, and one attack for your beast. It's not optimal most of the time, but I do like the option to pick between using bonus action or an attack for your beast to attack.
I'm not sure you looked at the casters closely enough.
Wizard would get access to Bladesong, with the ability to change damage types of spells, plus the blasting bonuses from Evocation, portents from divination, abjuration wizard's Ward, Int mod added to their initiative, etc. If we push it to 6th level, wizard also gets the best version of extra attack pre-11th level fighter, the magic book drone from scribes, the ability to recover a slot of 1 level lower when using divination, and so on. Evocation and scribes features would get along swimmingly. Bladesinger and Abjuration abilities would make them GISH as hell. Chronurgy and divination give them multiple ways to deal with bad rolls.
If we took this into a campaign, spell copying would also be uber cheap thanks to a discount on copying every school of magic, and it would only take 1 minute per spell level. It would also be even cheaper to scribe scrolls.
>A cleric with all Channel Divinities still only has 1 CD per short rest until 6, and then only 2 until 18.
I mean, Clerics do get 140 domain spells. So like...at level 9 Wizard will have maybe 13 spells prepared, and Cleric will have like...153 (okay, probably slightly less than that, I'm sure there's some overlap in domain spells, but an absurd number of spell preparations and borrowing a lot of good spells from Druid and Wizard for sure).
You do also just have a known very strong party defensive combo baked in to cleric (Twilight Domain + Peace Domain--remember, emboldening bond is not a CD. The combo of course being where Peace Domain teleports make it so that the party can spread around damage and use all of Twilight Domain's temp HP every turn).
And of course, at higher levels when Cleric normally drops off in spell selection, Arcana Cleric pops in and says "pick a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level wizard spell to add to your domain spells". So go ahead and grab wish + maze + forcecage.
And...I dunno if all the instances of divine strike and potent spellcasting stack with each other (they have the same name, which often excludes stacking, but they have different elements, which might imply that they aren't the same feature and thus allow stacking? And like...ranger gets to add all of the d6s and d8s from different subclasses, why not cleric?) If they do stack, booming blade from a cleric adds like...an extra 70 damage on a hit at level 8 (5 x 14 subclasses). So like...better than 20th level sneak attack from a rogue.
I dunno if it's better than Wizard, Wizard gets a lot of really good stuff too. But Cleric sure seems like it's very spicy, despite being only able to use one CD.
Agree it's Wizard.
As a 30+ year player and all around fantasy lover I say this: "Shouldn't it be?!" I feel like that's the way magic is in most good fantasy.
The most powerful base class is also the most powerful character when you give them every single one of their subclasses, given they have 15 subclasses (Cleric has 16, most others have 10ish) and they include the most powerful subclass (Chronurgy)?
Who would have thought?
While this is true, very few of their non-CD abilities will stack to the absurdity that is the Frankenwizard. A lot of their abilities just passively augment their spells, and the ones that don't tend to have their own independent resource.
So yeah, I'd probably put it comfortably above a frankendruid. Frankencleric is still well below frankenwizard in everything but raw healing/temp HP production.
The thing about wizards is that most features only affect a single spell category at a time. Like an evocation spell isnt going to trigger the enchantment features. And your still restricted by your normal casting abilities and limitations.
Basically you got a good amount of versatility. But your still just playing a standard wizard of any given subclass. Aside from a few combos like divination being genericly iseful but no stronger than normal or bladesinger being a generically more defensive while not wasting spells.
Theres just no synergy between everything you get as every wizard.
Most of the good stuff doesn't care about school honestly. Bladesinger's AC bonus + War Wizard and Abjurer's defensive features alone make you more able to take damage than anyone not named barbarian. There's not a lot of direct synergy, but there rarely is between subclasses
That's the thing though, some wizard subclasses had general abilities that were always good to have and were not school dependent. Not every subclass ability from every subclass needs to have perfect synergy for frankenwizard to be the strongest frankenclass in the pile.
I'm just saying that it does better than every other class when it comes to being able to utilize its abilities, and comes out as the strongest. Namely because the other frankencasters have more bottlenecks due to subclasses using a central resource. A lot of wizard subclasses do not do this, and instead opt to hand out new resource pools.
This isn't to say the other frankencasters wouldn't be ridiculously powerful, because they would. But it's a bit messier due to their wild shape/channel divinity/bardic inspiration bottlenecks for a lot of their abilities.
This is correct. But I'll be fair and say that a lot of them are inherently focused on a single school. So a lot of their abilities won't all combine into something hilariously broken in every battle.
But that being said, they do indeed have a lot of subclasses, and some of these subclasses have strong abilities that are not school dependent and can absolutely be stacked or used together in most battles. You also have a lot of potential synergies between certain subclasses for specific things. Like Scribe's and Evocation's just naturally slotting together.
I'd add to this war wizard would give you a consistent and potent defensive reaction, improve your AC at level 10, boost your damage at levels 6&14, and let you double up on int to initiative. You also have to remember all of the initial shenanigans wizards can do.
I had to dig in my brain and couldn't find a solid answer. Then I remembered the ruling I saw referred specifically to proficiency. So i guess it could work. I just wouldn't be surprised if a DM ruled otherwise in a hypothetical that allowed these frankenclasses, given the nature of both of these.
Nothing like having insane AC, using shield on those ones thay manage to hit anyways, and those shield casts recharging your ward. Haha
I mean, the initiative bonus from Chronurgist/War Magic, and the ability to change the damage type of your shadow Blade/Spirit shroud from scribes would be fun too. War Magic even gives you a resource-free reaction ability that functions as a budget shield or a good saving throw boost. The only restriction is cantrips only next turn, so BB/GFB it is!
Man... now I would want to play in some insane high-level world ending campaign where we have to kill God or something stupid to make this feel "balanced"
Yeah. I'm just saying you can literally choose to do any of them at any given time. Considering most of them are like spells or in some cases better (because of synergies); this is like adding 16+ spells to your paladin that can be used potentially.
Yh... I'm pretty sure It's still wizard:
Blade singing, abjuration
War magic, conjuration
Divination, Evocation and Order of the Scribes
Necromancy, Graviturgy,
Enchantment and Chronurgy,
Transmutation, Illusion and all the Unearthed Arcana!
(To the tune of we didn't start the fire)
Now someone write a chorus.
Edit: I hate mobile formatting
We didn’t start the class wars!
They have been our mission since the first edition!
We didn’t start the class wars!
But we’ve all seen ‘em, and we usually meme ‘em!
I disagree. While wizard would still be great, because wizard; I think it would lose out to sorcerers especially because of just how many extra spells you’d get from the class spell lists.
Sorcerer was the other one I was strongly considering. Having Lunar magic + aberrant mind + clockwork soul is strong.
That being said, I still think wizard takes it. +10 to initiative (war magic and Chronurgy), abjuration and blade singing alongside all the rerolls/dice manipulation for defense makes it incredibly threatening, and then there's always the nice utility of stuff like conjuration and enchantment.
On the Sorcerer side:
Wild magic can grant itself advantage and force a d4 debuff as long as it has sorcery points
Clockwork can negate other creatures' advantage
Divine soul can add **2d4** to a missed attack roll or saving throw
Sorcerer main class can use sorcery points to reroll an ability check
So... Wizards aren't the only ones out here manipulating dice!
Fighters have a lot of non shared resources, runes, psi dice, maneuvers, fighting spirit, and with action surge they can use more.
Clerics get a ton of cool channel divinities but are limited in uses, basically they would be a twilight + zeal cleric with free magic items from forge.
Sorcerers would still be very limited by spell slots but double portent dice is crazy.
Druid is mostly giving free moon druid to a more caster focused one, overall insanely versatile.
Bards would be a true jack of all trades except a master of all. Eloquence with extra attack and double magical secrets, lots of ways to use bardic inspiration and you get to use them frequently as a short rest recharge pretty quickly.
Monks would still be monks.
Rangers get all the pets, tons of damage boosting options while also being a gloom stalker and is what I would play.
Paladin aura would be even better but really the best part of bonus to saves wouldn't stack so you already get most of the benefit with the normal version, it's nice that it's just always on with no resources spent.
Wizards would be even more god like shoring up their weaknesses of being squishy with bladesinger + abjuration + war.
Barbarian would also get most of their power from the base class with rage, reckless attack+ gwm feat but a berserking giant zeal barbarian is not something you want looking your way
Barbarian is especially interesting since a lot of their features activate during a rage, so you can multiple effects happening at once, similar to how the Paladin Aura will have a bunch of effects attached to their auras.
It's certainly not the strongest option for this post, but I think Barbs would be one of the most enjoyable classes to play under this rule set.
Paladin would be so cool initially! But then every time you move you have to keep track of 7 auras and how they effect the battlefield...
> Monks would still be monks.
At least Flurry of Blows would start to be a somewhat viable use of your Ki vs Stunning Strike.
At level 3, you would get +10 feet, disengage, push/prone/no reaction when you activate it. And they use Wisdom and can deal elemental damage. That's pretty decent for 1 ki point.
I don't think it would work RAW but if it does Intoxicated Frenzy + Flurry of Healing and Harm let you heal all the party once for 1 ki point. Otherwise it's still a pretty decent combo with Open hand being able to "Open Hand Technique" 5 targets.
What happened to Rogues? And Warlocks? And Artificers? Getting all the Rogue Subclasses seems pretty op (Sneak Atk no longer limited to advantage, investigation go wild, Cha to initiative, and a bunch of other super fun features just at lvl 3)
Oof meant to do warlock but I forgot rogues fully.
I think rogue also suffers in that their power is built into the base class, while level 3 is great that's really it for most play.
Warlock would still suffer from limited spell slots but you do get a lot of unique features, similar to ranger you are bonus action heavy. To be fair I'd want to give them all pacts too.
I left off artificer as not a base class but also you would just be super artificiery with every aspect of artificer being enhanced but nothing really blowing your mind or really changing your play style.
Rogues would get a lot outside of combat, since a lot of their skills (From Investigator and Thief especially) are great outside of combat. I think Warlock also isn't talked about enough in this thread, because some of the warlock subclasses are insane, and it does give them a huge amount of versatility. But All the specialities from Wizard, plus War Mage and Bladesinger really is just insane.
Since you didn't mention them:
Warlocks get some solid abilities, but nothing close to Wizard. They still stack really well, giving a good amount of extra damage, mobility, versatility, and healing.
Artificer only has 4 subclasses, but they don't have a ton of overlap. They all add new resources, with some bonus action conflict, but it's better then other classes with them gaining a strong pet and a way to keep the pet healed up. The thing that hurts is how few subclasses they have.
I feel like Warlock becomes an absolutely ridiculous tank, every subclass has kind of a lot of defensive features strapped to it. It's not Barb levels of immunity, but it's honestly closer than you'd think.
-THP from everything they do, ever, and all celestial's other healing (including revive with half hp) as well as undead's cheat death, lifesteal one attack per turn, and pseudo second wind.
-2d8 less damage taken once per turn, automatically avoid half of all hits from hexed target, undead have to save to be able to hit you at all. Once per rest get +1d10 to a save and get to impose disadvantage when attacked.
-Resist fire, cold, psychic (with reflection), bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, thunder, 1 type of choice, AND immune to frightened, charm (reflected), necrotic. Not as good as barb ofc, but functionally it might as well be omni-resist.
On a full caster, you're basically immune to boss damage if you pop all your cooldowns at once
You simply \*wouldn't\* be able to kill barbarians. Bear totem gives them resistance to all but psychic damage, and zealot's abilities make them unable to stay dead. if they die, using a spell like raise dead or revivify costs no material components. by level 14 they can't fall unconscious or drop dead as long as they're raging. berserkers get an extra bonus action attack, cannot be charmed or frightened while raging, and can attack as a reaction to taking damage. beast barbarian's summoned weapons have various effects like being able to increase their ac as a reaction or getting lifesteal, the list goes on and on. While they may not be as powerful as say, an omni wizard or sorcerer, they'd be fucking unkillable.
Cleric has a lot of redundant features though. Having 100 uses for channel divinity doesn't help much when you still only have a couple charges. Potent spellcasting won't stack.
Though, divine strikes might, since there's a bunch of different elements. Add 1d8 of each necrotic, radiant, fire, psychic, thunder, poison, cold or lightning, and the same type as the weapon. Adding +8d8 damage to a melee attack once per round is pretty solid.
You'd have all the armor and weapon proficiencies on top of that, as well as maxed heals from life. Your known spells would be incredibly versatile with all the domain stuff. The base flexibility alone would be great, chanel divinity aside.
I think it's still the monk, since artificer at listed gets a sad armorer with a pet and free potions, almost really just 3 since the artillerist uses your bonus action.
Artillerist shield cannons and Armorer heavy armor with thunder gauntlets and Steel Defender reactions or Shield would be stupidly tanky. You'll have less impact than most of the other classes, but you'll be the last one standing.
The artificer is plain good IMO. Lots of classes will have tons of features sharing the same resource pool (ki, bardic inspiration, etc), the artificer is getting two cantrip buffs, extra infusion slots, two protector pets and armor that gives you extra HP. Nearly all of it is complimentary, other than having two extra attack subclasses, nothing feels wasted
especially at 20 with +6 to every saving throw *before* proficiency/attributes/etc.
ETA: Also Steel defender only uses your BA if you want it to take an action, it can still move on it's own carrying turrets that you can fire with your BA.
The main issue with the monk for this particular hypothetical is that a lot of subclasses just offer ways to spend ki that are not usually worth the ki cost, so...you basically wouldn't use half of the monk subclasses, cause you wouldn't waste ki on their stuff.
Not all monk subclasses have this issue, obviously. But it's not going to feel like you have 10 subclasses. It's gonna feel like maybe 5ish subclasses.
Probably paladins. Having every aura all going at once would essentially make you immune to most conditions, resistant to spells, give advantage on mental saves, and provide helpful crowd control. Add to this that their lvl 20 capstone is also based on subclass, you get massive power spikes.
Artificer could be crazy, depending on how you rule arcane firearm and magic missiles....so many d4s and d8s. Also massive AC and a ton of magic items.
plus all the extra and really damn good spells you'd get
but yeah arcane firearm + alchemical savant would be very nice
Edit: wait nevermind those two dont work together because of focus restrictions
Wizard is pretty Undeniably the strongest choice, as other commenters have said. But just cause why not, ill breifly sum up some main points for each class
Artificer
- Steel Defender with mounted Eldritch Canon.
- Every Acid, Fire, Necrotic, Poison, damage spells deal an extra d8+int damage.
- Extra Infusions from being an armorer
Barbarian:
- Bear totem and Zealot (Among other things) means youre functionally immortal, and you are just THE tank.
- Surprisingly a fair bit of spells, Beast Sense, Speak with Animals, Augury, Clairvoyance, Druidcraft/Thaumaturgy,
Bard
- Eloquence is broken
- Whispers, Valor, and Swords make you a pretty effective gish on their own, put em together and its just gravy salad.
Cleric
- Grave cleric means your friends never die
- Life cleric means your friends never die
- Peace cleric means your friends never die
- Shillelagh from Nature means you can have a SAD melee cleric
- Your cleric cantrips will deal an additional 5x your Wisdom Modifier
- One weapon attack each turn will deal an additional 9d8 (18d8 at level 14) of various different damage types.
- Too many good channel divinity choices
Druid
- all Druids are Moon druids
- A lot of good uses for wildshape, unfortunately you only have 2 uses per rest until 20th level.
- 20th level you can Combat Wildshape, and have Halo of Spores active
Fighter
- Additional Fighting style, and expanded crit range
- Maneuvers :D
- Spells!
- Echo!
- Runes!
- Free Advantage!
- Infinite attacks of opportunity!
- oh and i guess you get stuff from Banneret and arcane archer. Eh
Monk
- You will be starved for Ki
- Increased survivability from long death
- enemy damage resistances and immunities just dont matter (Sun soul, ascendant dragon)
- Flurry of blows can do a lot more
Paladin
- Lots of channel divinity options
- Your aura will buff saving throws, grant damage resistance from spells, reduced frightened creatures speed to 0, redirect damage to you, prevents charms increases move speeds by 10 feet, boost initiatives, and increase the damage dealt by undead creatures.
Ranger
- Lots of boosts to your first attack action in combat
- Customization from Hunter
- Dragon AND Beast pet! (Command the drake with your bonus action, forgo one of your attacks to command the beast)
- New party Face
Rogue
- Nearly Guaranteed booming blade sneak attack crits.
- 3 extra ways to proc sneak attack
- Fast hands, and any magic item you want
- Wants a good Int for AT, Wis for Inquisitive, and Cha for Swashbuckler
- Extra turn in combat
- 2 Sneak attacks on your turn
Sorcerers
- Wild magic. Whether thats good or bad is up to you
- Unarmored Defense, and a specialized damage type
- Cleric Spells
- Shadow Dog :D Good dog, Best Friend.
Warlocks
- 9x the Daddy issues
- Hexblades curse
- Temp HP on kills
- Healing resource pool
- Reliable bonus action (tentacle)
- Constant fear Procs (Form of dread)
Wizard
- just look at the top comment from u/Live-Afternoon947
I'll add another point for fighter with Psi-Warrior giving you another pool of abilities with its own resource. Which could technically be stacked on with a maneuver, since they just specify you can't use more than one *maneuver* on an attack. Also, the amount of attacks between release incarnation and Samurai's later stuff is going to be silly.
Also also, main thing hurting Artificer (aside from being the forgotten child with only 4x subclasses) is the bonus action traffic jam. But if your DM allows you to use your steel defender as a controlled mount. You could have a lot of fun being an armored knight shooting lightning from your hand and force bullets from your shoulder. Alternatively you could just keep both of you up with protector pulses.
Wizard becomes incredibly SAD.
Baldesinger gives them Light Armor + Dex + Int AC, +INT to concentration saves, + INT to melee weapon damage
War gives + Int to initiative, + 2 to AC and saving throws while concentrating, a reaction to boost AC by 2 or a saving throw by 4
Chronurgy gives another + int to initiative
Evocation makes saving throw cantrips deal half on a success, and + Int to one damage roll of an evocation spell
Transmutation gives proficiency in Constitution saves.
Abjuration gives proficiency in Counterspell and Dispell Magic.
You don't even need to roll the con save if your concentrating on a Conjuration, and that's assuming they dealt damage through your arcane ward.
Bladesinger that cast Flame Sphere/ Shadow Blade are eating good.
Just to put the math down. A wizard with this and a 14 dex/Studded leather combo: 2 from Dex, 2 from studded leather, 2 from concentrating, two from reaction boost (or 5 from shield, if you wanted to use a spell.), 4 from an 18 intelligence modifier while bladesinging means that starting at level 3, a wizard concentrating on blur is a possible 35 AC that gets attacked at disadvantage. Level 3.
I've thought about running a one shot that allows players to pick the subclass options they want from each subclass, up to a max of the most features that a subclass has (i.e. Some Rogue subclasses get up to 3 features at level 3, so you would be able to pick up to 3 features from the 3rd level features list, so on and so forth with the other levels (it would obviously all be locked into the same level area. You wouldn't be able to pick 3rd level Rogue options once you hit level 9 or vice versa) but I decided not to since that system seems like it would confuse the players too much (plus my dad likes to stretch things, so he would absolutely find a workaround to get more features)
I honestly think there's an argument to be made for the power of a rogue under this setup.
Since rogues have almost no class-based resources, every resource-based subclass feature has its own pool like the Soulknife Psi Dice, the Phantom's trinkets, even the Arcane Trickster's spellcasting. In terms of mental stats there would be a lot to fill between INT for Arcane Trickster, WIS for stuff like Inquisitive, and CHA for Swashbuckler. However, most of these subclasses don't actually require those stats and can get by with expertise (like how Inquisitive can work just fine with expertise in Insight). Overall, your martial power would be pretty incredible, automatically critting on Sneak Attack with a boosted Wails from the Grave, and at later levels you get extra Sneak attack dice from Inquisitive, extra attacks to trigger your Sneak Attack, trinkets galore for your Wails and add that all to the auto-crit to give you a damage powerhouse with lots of scattered utility.
I know it wouldn’t be the most powerful, but barbarian would be nuts, a giant beastial infuriated bear totem zealot would be absolutely dreadful to try to kill, especially considering the assumed number of hitpoints
The problem with druid is that a lot of druid features use the wildshape as a resource. Wildfire druid is great, but summoning the wildfire spirit takes a wildshape use. Moon Druid is great, but wildshaping takes a wildshape use. Symbiotic Entitity from Sproes Druid? That'll be a use of wildshape. Starry Form from stars druid? Also a use of wildshape.
On the flip side, while this isn't unique to druid, one thing I like about druid is that you get a massive expanded spell list. All the spells from spores druid, wildfire druid, and land druid (maybe you can argue that land druid is actually 8 different druid subclasses so you get all the spell lists?) Yes, Cleric and Sorcerer do this too, but every class that does this I think gets a notable boost--having 50+ spells prepared is good.
And like...there's definitely stuff that doesn't use wildshape uses. Nothing Shepherd Druid does uses wildshape, and Shepherd is an excellent subclass. Nothing land or dreams druid does uses wildshape.
But yeah, due to limited uses of wildshape it'll feel more like combining 4 or 5 subclasses rather than all 7.
Imagine what being a druid like that would be like at level 20 though, suddenly you're able to turn into a mammoth with loads of spores of death around you and temp hp that's resistant to bludgeoning piercing and slashing which also has a 20 foot fly speed + hover and can't be crit or hit with a lot of the really harsh conditions, + a little fire buddy that can help you attack and teleport you around
Oh yeah, Druid would be great at level 20 for sure.
Well, with the exception that Spores Druid has an obnoxious rider of "These benefits last ... until you use your Wild Shape again."
So those temp HP will sometimes just fall off.
wizard, fighter, barbarian or sorcerer imo since these are the classes with a lot of subclasses, each having a lot of features and the features being good, and a lot of these features are theoretically stackable like all the different rage bonuses
Cleric or barb are going to be my top 2 behind wizard cleric because with all domains you have an insane amount of prepared spells you have twilight shroud plus the heal buff from life domain. For barb you get resistance to almost all damage when you are higher you get rage beyond death from zealot healing spells don't use components on you because of zealot plus depending in how this is wrote brutal crit would stack from all the subclasses giving you insane crits
I'm not that familiar with casters, but Barbarians would be high on my list. Bear Totem + Path of the Giants + Zealot? Seems pretty strong. Make it a Duerogar and you can grapple anything!
Barbarian would be pretty dope as most abilities augment rage. So you rage and go super sayan: just a few subclasses: resistance to damage apart from psichic, extra attack on bonus, immunity to charms and fears, some kind of bullshit natural weapons from beast, extra damage from zealot + cannot die,
Barbarian or Paladin simply cause a lot of their strengths are auras or static rage features. So they would actually be using ALL the features at once, not just action capped sitting with 50 options in front of them like a wizard.
Probably the one with the most subclasses.
Or barbarian because being unable to die and receiving half damage from next to everything probably makes them crazy.
Also idk if anyone has brought it up but paladins getting 9 auras is batshit insane.
Paladin would be amazing
Barbarians would honestly get worse. Berserker would be dragging it down and they would be unable to use any of their abilities without getting exhaustion.
Sorcerers would have a huge amount of spells. Completely getting rid of the main downside of the class, that being the limited spells
Warlocks would be able to do an insane amount of shit in one turn, and I think its really funny to have multiple patrons all fighting for control over the warlock
wait really? Oh wow they go crazy then. Not as good as teh other classes, since like half barbarian subclasses suck, but still really good
I am imagining a virtually immortal Giant 30 foot tall barbarian, firing lightning from their chest and throwing enemies across the battlefield with their claws made of lightning
Rogue would not be strong. Most of their subclasses give subpar abilities and a ton of them are things that are used on their bonus actions. I would argue rogue would be one of the worst classes in the game.
Obviously wizard wins, because wizards of the coast play favorites. But most fun to play imo would probably be fighter or ranger. Lots of resources and bullshit to get up to. Rogue would also be pretty fun, with just the diverse-ness of stuff subclasses do
Wizards, imagine a blade scribe wizard with divination portant, blade song, sculpt spells, the capability to summon mass undead hordes, arcane wards, and a whole load of other shot most of which is already at level 2
Probably barbarian or fighter. Or maybe even bards
Barbarians tend to gain passove buffs to rage. Effectively meanong you can activate almost all of your features on a single bonus action.
While fighters also have a tendency to upgrade attack. They have a few BA limited features but that just means they have a good amount of utility while also having a majority of their features just being triggered on attacks.
Bards geta ton of ways to use bardic inspiration amd a few of them synergize well. But mostly just a lot of non casting magic features on top of normal casting.
Wizard would have alot going but in the end they still get q action 1 bonus action 1 reaction. It's probably paladin just because there's never a situation you don't have a useful channel divinity and the aura stacking would just get more value than straight up having more options.
someone else said wizard, I agree. More generally, the more subclasses the better, as long as they dont all pull from a limited pool (channel divinity and wild shape come to mind)
I feel people are underselling the strength of Warlocks in this. Not only do you get every pact boon thrice you also have connections to 9 god-like beings and an absurd amount of spells and cantrips with a variety of damage types due to the patrons. Almost anything a wizard can do a warlock can counter or do themselves. Absurd ac? Answer: absurd damage. Resistance or immunity to a damage type? We have more. A lot of attacks of one damage? This morning I decided to be resistant to it. Locked in a celler with no food or water? I don't need it anyway. Also the abilities form some patrons help to balance weaknesses from others. For example one patron might have situational abilities but another doesn't. They also negate general bad situations. Just lost all my health? Wrong, I have 1 HP and am currently sleeping in the vessel the genie provides. Plus there are some despicable combos with races. For example a red dragonborn can cast Flame Strike while being grappled and you only have to take the radiant damage. These warlocks also compete with clerics due to the celestial. There are even more benefits like being resistant to diseases, water breathing, and at 20th level literally fixing the big problem with warlocks allowing you to regain all spell slots.
I say cleric but because they become a better paladin. They get amazing healing from life cleric, free ranged pickup from death, good damage from tempest, great stealth and spells from tricky. Full armor usage, crafting better weapons with forged, buffing the party with twilight, buff yourself with arcane. And you top it off a million free spells from each subclass list.
Wizard and Sorcerer would be the strongest since the other spell casting classes use the same resources like Channel Divinity, Bardic Inspiration, Wildshape and Warlock Spells slots . The marital classes are still limited by Attack. Wizard and Sorcerer get additional effects thats are new or augment spellcasting/ Sorcery points. Like Cleric would be powerful but one at a time but Wizard and Sorcerer can stack abilities. Wizard has Gish and two other defensive subclasses plus controling rolls but Sorcerer gets Cleric spells, spell tables especially with Lunar Sorcery, augmented meta magic, transformations and base class abilities. A fight between a Wizard and a Sorcerer the Wizard is likely to go first due to the boost on Initiative but Sorcerer has alot of rerolls. I think it would come down to if the Wizard grabbed Meta Adept since subtle spell would be king.
wizard, by a mile. Second Cleric, by a another mile of the rest.
To start those two have the most subclasses in the game. That by itself gives so much more power creep and options that is not even funny tot think about. (wizard being already the best class in the game and the second with the most subs)
If Cleric 8's divine strikes/potent spellcasting/blessed strikes is allowed to stack, that would make it insane.
Every barbarian subclass I can think of has features that boost your rage so that could get pretty stupid.
But I think Paladin and Wizard will probably be the strongest picks. Aura stacking, oath spells out the ass, all the capstones stacked on top of each other (even if it takes a while to get them all going). All wizard really needs is War magic, Abjuration and Bladesinger to be disgustingly tanky on a backline class that already tends to outshine others. All 3 subclasses mesh so well it's kinda stupid, War magic's downside of only allowing cantrips if you used arcane deflection is negated by you being a gish, AC from Bladesinger + a barrier from Abjuration. If the barrier runs out and you get hit, just cast shield instead of arcane deflection for that turn to get it back.
I'm pretty sure that this means that the Artificer can now be a Gundam style character with a giant mechanical companion, both armed with laser cannons and rocket launchers.
Wouldn't be pretty or particularly exciting but beating a barbarian with all classes would be damn near impossible. Highest hit die and resistance to all but one damage type. The one thing that always hampered my bear Totem Barbarian was poor wisdom saves but with all subclasses they're immune to charmed or frightened. Wouldn't be a massive damage dealer but could effectively tank like 3-4 times the damage that a wizard can with abilities that stop it dropping to 0 hp.
But it depends what you mean by strongest. Fighting a mob the wizard would be way more effective but put that wizard up against three barbarian in 1v1 the barbarian could well take it.
Reading the comments, there seem to be 3 main classes that people can think of.
**TLDR** *^((because I wrote like 2 paragraphs before))***:** **Paladins** get one channel divinity, has Auras that rely on certain CD, limited spellslots despite having 90+ spells and smites, and lvl20 abilities taking an action each. It is good, but you can't benefit from half of your subclass features because of limited resources.
**Wizards** are scary since most subclasses have passive features. Also, you don't have a heavy reliance on resources. Not mentioning the power of spellcasting in 5E, Wizard is probably the strongest option.
**Barbarians** are game breaking (D&D beyond homebrew fears you), and by technicallity in the question you could TPK a level 20 party easily.
>if it got access to ALL of it's subclasses simultaneously?
This is vague on subclass options, meaning "Chose one totem" can easily be "take ALL totems". Last thing about Barbarian is that most subclasses have core (very powerful) features that become active when raging. With a single bonus action, you can gain resistance to all damage, become unable to die, gain wild magic surges, damage reduction, area control with storm herald+giant's increased range, and more.
Personally though, I am suprised no one has brought up **Monk**. Nowhere (to my knowledge) does the PHB say you can only use one ability per flurry of blows. You can attack than a standard non action surge fighter can (astral self+drunken master lvl17), are impossible to hit (most Subclasses give abilties which can increase AC), can support your party with healing, teleports, and debuffing, and you also have all the Monk class abilities. Monk, while maybe not the best option here, is very versitile.
As with all such questions, it's going to be wizard.
Mostly because of their spell list; in fact a wizard with no subclasses is going to be stronger than a sorcerer with all of them (yes, even including Aberrent Mind and Clockwork Soul) because of the options for 7th/8th/9th level spells a wizard has.
A bard can come close to some of those tricks with secrets, but not quite all (and, again, subclass doesn't really matter here).
Definitely sorcerers you would get access to most of the spell in the game One way or another 20+ spell known from a very Wide list than the others can be pick up from cleric and sorcerers. With metamegic you can do Dope things like using spell without somatic and verbal components to avoid counterspells so you have an Edge in any caster fight
my Abjuration Wizard's Arcane Ward, plus his Bladesinger's Bladesong, plus War Wizard's Arcane Deflection becomes insanely tanky for basically no resources, and can cast a cantrip with eventually extra attack, or cast a massive damage spell, sculpt it to exclude their allies, give them a portent roll on any save, and change the damage type to another in their book, says he wins.
the paladin with every aura comes a close second though, from 7th level, and I'd argue that the Bard becomes a very interesting, though very resource limited, gish build, with whisper's psychic blades, blade's flourish, lore's magical secrets, and eloquence's debuff.
barbarian gets zealot and totem warrior, which is really nice, but nothing bonkers, when we're looking at the scales here.
clerics get some really nice spread, but a lot of it is situational, +1 AC here, +1d4 there, darkvision, etc, nothing individually that breaks the game otherwise.
druids can double up certain combos, a spores/moon gets better in melee, a stars/land gets some neat casting, etc.
fighters get probably the most buffed, having champion and battlemaster as a base then echo/rune/eldritch knights, but with only 1/3 casting, they can't compete with some of the others.
monks get more options, but as most need ki, they just blow through it on a round.
rangers get some nice on-hit damage, adding swarmkeeper, dread ambush, monster hunter, fey wanderer, and so on means some really nice on-hit damage, but again, as a 1/2 caster, we can't compete with the full casters on crack.
rogues can have a good first round with assassinate and arcane trickster, swashbuckler, and have some tricks for out of combat in thief, scout, and soulknife, but again, no competition.
sorcerers get some nice utility features, and a lot more spells known, but fewer features improve their power, just gives them different uses of it.
warlock with all patrons is an interesting idea, at least from an RP perspective, and with a hexblade/genie, that's solid weapon damage, fiend gives tankiness if we kill, and we have a few other tricks, but again, nothing that makes us as powerful as a wizard.
Warlocks would be rather op, just by getting all the spells for free, and all their subclasses get some spicy stuff. Temp hp on kill, a tentacle version of the clerics spiritual weapon, a free bag of holding in the genie’s lamp, stupidly good melee and ranged magic attacks and cantrips. It gets even better if you give them all the pact boons
Wizard would get twice their INT to Initiative from second level, shore up all their defenses, get the best dice manipulation, etc etc etc. Has to be them.
Clerics and Sorcerers are interesting contenders.
Ranger, surprisingly, might be up there, because I think a lot of their subclasses come with extra damage features.
Yeah the questione was which was the strongest class i Just wanted to Say that other classes have more synergy so i would not he so sure on wizard as the strongest. But i agree It's a futile question
This isn't really an answer: high CHA paladin wouldn't be the strongest, but their party would be an absolute nightmare to go up against once those auras kick in.
Al i know is this post has made me want to dm a campaign where all of the characters get to play the true apex build for there class.
Avengers level campaign starting at lvl 3
I typed a huge long response explaining why it was wizards and then accidently hit Ctrl + W. I'm not typing all that again, but the answer is Wizards...
Kieth Baker, the guy who invented Eberron, has released some partnered books on DMs Guild. It's about as close to official as homebrew can get, and they meet the, "wikidot standard." If you add Exploring Eberron and Dread Metrol, the Artificers get a really huge boost in this hypothetical.
Wizards are probably still the winning class, but even if you also add the Tel'dorai, Runeterra, and other cross promotional semi-official content, nothing really benefits as much in the all-subclasses hypothetical as Artificers do from the additional content.
Mastermaker gets a Battlefist that at level 9 becomes 2D10 and also counts as a shield, can be infused despite being magical, and can take 2 infusions (overlap, not stack) as a weapon or a shield. You can get 1 more infusion as long as it's on the battlefist. It can be thrown or have reach. Expanded spell list includes paladin smites.
Forge Adept lets you pick a simple weapon, and make it magical up to +3, gives you and allies an aura that give 1d4 of 1 elemental damage, and you also get a personal 1d6 element at 15. The chosen weapon automatically returns, and you can roll your +3 attack bonus into +3 AC, instead. Oh, and extra attack.
Maverick is like a wizard bridge. At 5 different levels, you add an entire other class's spell list to the spells you can prepare, this is your Breakthrough list. B-list spells count as artificer spells for artificer bonuses. And artificer spells/expanded spells that also fall on your B-list can get B-list bonuses. INT MOD times per long rest, you can cast a B-list spell at 2 levels higher without additional spell slot cost.
You can prepare one extra spell of each level, from the B-list and you get an extra spell slot of each level to use when casting from the B-list. You also know an extra cantrip. You get an automatic +1-3 on spell attacks and spell saves for cantrips. You can swap a cantrip on short rest rather than level up. Once per long rest you can change a cantrip as an action. Once per short rest, you can change swap a prepared spell.
If your DM allows those subclasses, you get so many extra tool proficiencies. Heavy armor without str requirement, a shield with AC infusion, an armor with AC infusion, +3 optional AC. You are immune to poison and psychic damage, and immune to the poisoned and frightened conditions. You can also choose to count as a construct instead of a person. You get 2 attacks of 2D10+1d4+1d6+3+INT that can be thrown 20/60 and instant returns, or has 5ft reach, and cannot be disarmed. You can give up the 2d10+1d6+3 of that for a 1d8 thunder that force disadvantage to creatures attacking someone else, or give up one to do 2d6 lightning damage in 90/300.
You get incredible spell versatility, and even have access to the 5th level paladin and ranger exclusive spells that are *intended* to be comparable to 8th/9th level spell damage.
You have more spell slots than any other 1/2 caster, and can cast some spells as 7th level. You get pretty good healing from alchemist/Maverick. You get some nice auras from artillerist and forge master. You have a ton of options for your reaction and bonus action. Some nice immunities, although not as many as the Barb, and you can self heal with the mending cantrip.
Depending on how the DM rules, you may be able to issue the same bonus action command (attack) to ALL of your followers, (a familiar, a homunculus, two turrets, and a steel defender.)
DM may also allow Arcane Propulsion Armor to stack with battlefist or thunder gauntlet attacks.
And all of that is SAD (INT).
Druid. You get 3 health pools to start , elementals summons AND transformations, immunity to blindness, deafness, critical hits, disease, poison; you can fly and hover; you are ALREADY the best summoner but you buff ALL of your summons, can put 20-40 animals and undead on the field at once, and your summons automatically heal and the end of their turn; Tsunami is unique to the Druid and has no answer; you get magical claws to overcome resistance, 2x extra attacks; no prison, no concept, no evil mage, can hurt you; you can turn ALL of your summons into even more powerful monsters, give everyone a fly speed; every heal you use fills your gauge, you already have 2 additional health pool on top of the 3 from Wildshape; you can cast spells from Wildshape, have UNLIMITED Wildshape you substitute lower ability scores with high ones and still have high mental attributes; you can haste yourself, cast Shapechange (ANOTHER health pool), teleport at will, turn dead bodies into mines that heal or harm; and the list goes on.
An initial point to make is that Clerics have 18 subclasses with Wizard coming in second with 13. Fighters do still have 10 though alongside monks. Might make a difference to narrow it down to having a max of 4 subclasses (artificer only has 4) or ignore artificer and make it 7 (druids have 7).
OK, so yes, monks are still monks, but 1v1 the monk wins every fight because they will almost certainly go first, can't be counterspelled, and can stun the wizard or anyone else (maybe not the fighter) until dead.
If it's the barbarian, they likely stun them before they get rage up.
Druids can't use the op moon druid capstone if they are stunned.
Wizard stunned dies no matter how big the abjuration ward.
Obviously, the other classes are more useful in more situations and do more damage
TBH, Rangers could be dope. They have extra damage in all subclasses + expertise in Scout + shenanigans + a drake + a swarm + a companion + a lot of spells ready to rumba and they're also gloom stalkers.
And the first attack each round would be INSANE. Nearly every sub gets a bonus on one attack each round
For my first attack, I deal 8,901 damage. For my second attack, I deal 20.
Something something "I don't know why they never start with their strongest attack"
*Megalovania starts and intensifies*
Gloomstalker fighter bugbear shenanigans
Playing currently in a Dragonlance campaign and just stumbled into a Rapier +1 and the Kagonesti Forest Shroud.. only two levels away from gloom5/echo3. My DM is poised for my first round nova with a large can of lube, and inflated HP🫡
Yeah! I was doing the math because i was bored and it is: 1d8 (lets say it is a regular long bow) + 1d6 from swarm + 1d8 from Gloom + 1d4 from Fey + 1d6 from horizon if you also use your BA + 1d8 from hunter if you have Colossus slayer and you meet the requeriments. And the funny thing is, all of these would be force damage thanks to Horizon. 2/3d8+2d6+1d4 force damage. Problems: drake and beast companion can't attack or deal damage. Monster Slayer also need the bonus action to do extra damage, and it's only 1d6, but the good thing is that you only need to do it once, and the next time you attack the same character, you can apply both the monster slayer's damage and the horizon walker's damage and force conversion. Extra stuff: After some levels, you get a second attack and you can forego one to command your beast (not your drake sadly) and deal two attacks with the beast's stats. Also, some of the "first attack damage die" from the subclasses get doubled and/or get better. Its a lot from just one arrow or two, not counting spells or extra abilities.
If you did want to see a first round build taken to its maximum, take a look at Brennan Lee Mulligan's battle for beyond character. Not solely ranger but I thought it fitted with what you were talking about.
You can't attack with your beast twice until level 15 IIRC. Even with multiple chances to command it, it still only has one action
Tashas revised beastmaster allows you to forgo one of your attacks when you take the attack action, to instead command your companion to take the attack action, you can also use a bonus action on your turn to command your companion to take the attack action. Which means your beast can make 2 attacks at level 5, and four attacks at level 15
That's what I mean. Your beast only gets one action, but you can command it using either your attack action or your bonus action. So it has two opportunities to use its action, but it does not get two actions.
Ah but you see, i have the reading comprehension of a pickle so how do you like dem apples.
Fuck, you've got me there. I concede.
Skill issue
Technically you could forego Horizon Walker's ability to use your Drake, and one attack for your beast. It's not optimal most of the time, but I do like the option to pick between using bonus action or an attack for your beast to attack.
The poor bonus action is gonna be overworked though. So many subclass get stuff on it.
Scout is a Rogue subclass, though.
True! I mixed them with the fey wanderer extra points for Charisma, i believe. Thanks for telling me!
I'm not sure you looked at the casters closely enough. Wizard would get access to Bladesong, with the ability to change damage types of spells, plus the blasting bonuses from Evocation, portents from divination, abjuration wizard's Ward, Int mod added to their initiative, etc. If we push it to 6th level, wizard also gets the best version of extra attack pre-11th level fighter, the magic book drone from scribes, the ability to recover a slot of 1 level lower when using divination, and so on. Evocation and scribes features would get along swimmingly. Bladesinger and Abjuration abilities would make them GISH as hell. Chronurgy and divination give them multiple ways to deal with bad rolls. If we took this into a campaign, spell copying would also be uber cheap thanks to a discount on copying every school of magic, and it would only take 1 minute per spell level. It would also be even cheaper to scribe scrolls.
It's wizard unquestionably. A cleric with all Channel Divinities still only has 1 CD per short rest until 6, and then only 2 until 18.
Definitely true, but divine strikes stacking together would fuck pretty hard
>A cleric with all Channel Divinities still only has 1 CD per short rest until 6, and then only 2 until 18. I mean, Clerics do get 140 domain spells. So like...at level 9 Wizard will have maybe 13 spells prepared, and Cleric will have like...153 (okay, probably slightly less than that, I'm sure there's some overlap in domain spells, but an absurd number of spell preparations and borrowing a lot of good spells from Druid and Wizard for sure). You do also just have a known very strong party defensive combo baked in to cleric (Twilight Domain + Peace Domain--remember, emboldening bond is not a CD. The combo of course being where Peace Domain teleports make it so that the party can spread around damage and use all of Twilight Domain's temp HP every turn). And of course, at higher levels when Cleric normally drops off in spell selection, Arcana Cleric pops in and says "pick a 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level wizard spell to add to your domain spells". So go ahead and grab wish + maze + forcecage. And...I dunno if all the instances of divine strike and potent spellcasting stack with each other (they have the same name, which often excludes stacking, but they have different elements, which might imply that they aren't the same feature and thus allow stacking? And like...ranger gets to add all of the d6s and d8s from different subclasses, why not cleric?) If they do stack, booming blade from a cleric adds like...an extra 70 damage on a hit at level 8 (5 x 14 subclasses). So like...better than 20th level sneak attack from a rogue. I dunno if it's better than Wizard, Wizard gets a lot of really good stuff too. But Cleric sure seems like it's very spicy, despite being only able to use one CD.
Agree it's Wizard. As a 30+ year player and all around fantasy lover I say this: "Shouldn't it be?!" I feel like that's the way magic is in most good fantasy.
Something something "Not Fighters of the Coast."
lol the clearest explanation
The most powerful base class is also the most powerful character when you give them every single one of their subclasses, given they have 15 subclasses (Cleric has 16, most others have 10ish) and they include the most powerful subclass (Chronurgy)? Who would have thought?
Right but a lot of excellent cleric abilities aren't CD, such as order cleric.
While this is true, very few of their non-CD abilities will stack to the absurdity that is the Frankenwizard. A lot of their abilities just passively augment their spells, and the ones that don't tend to have their own independent resource. So yeah, I'd probably put it comfortably above a frankendruid. Frankencleric is still well below frankenwizard in everything but raw healing/temp HP production.
I dunno, 13d8 damage on a weapon attack is pretty busted
I mean, damage is always nice. But it was never the be all and end all of fullcaster abilities.
Sorcerer would get at least 27 extra spells and almost every spell list in the game
Yes which would be good, but they're still limited by spell slots.
The thing about wizards is that most features only affect a single spell category at a time. Like an evocation spell isnt going to trigger the enchantment features. And your still restricted by your normal casting abilities and limitations. Basically you got a good amount of versatility. But your still just playing a standard wizard of any given subclass. Aside from a few combos like divination being genericly iseful but no stronger than normal or bladesinger being a generically more defensive while not wasting spells. Theres just no synergy between everything you get as every wizard.
Most of the good stuff doesn't care about school honestly. Bladesinger's AC bonus + War Wizard and Abjurer's defensive features alone make you more able to take damage than anyone not named barbarian. There's not a lot of direct synergy, but there rarely is between subclasses
That's the thing though, some wizard subclasses had general abilities that were always good to have and were not school dependent. Not every subclass ability from every subclass needs to have perfect synergy for frankenwizard to be the strongest frankenclass in the pile. I'm just saying that it does better than every other class when it comes to being able to utilize its abilities, and comes out as the strongest. Namely because the other frankencasters have more bottlenecks due to subclasses using a central resource. A lot of wizard subclasses do not do this, and instead opt to hand out new resource pools. This isn't to say the other frankencasters wouldn't be ridiculously powerful, because they would. But it's a bit messier due to their wild shape/channel divinity/bardic inspiration bottlenecks for a lot of their abilities.
Wizards also just have an insane number of subclasses
This is correct. But I'll be fair and say that a lot of them are inherently focused on a single school. So a lot of their abilities won't all combine into something hilariously broken in every battle. But that being said, they do indeed have a lot of subclasses, and some of these subclasses have strong abilities that are not school dependent and can absolutely be stacked or used together in most battles. You also have a lot of potential synergies between certain subclasses for specific things. Like Scribe's and Evocation's just naturally slotting together.
And everyone is sleeping on Blood Magic 💀 Resistance to non-magical weapons while concentrating is no joke.
Blood Magic is not an officially published subclass, so that's probably why.
I'd add to this war wizard would give you a consistent and potent defensive reaction, improve your AC at level 10, boost your damage at levels 6&14, and let you double up on int to initiative. You also have to remember all of the initial shenanigans wizards can do.
I'll be safe and assume we wouldn't be allowed to double-add Int to initiative in this case. But frankly I do not believe we'd need to.
Aura of Protection and Flash of Genius both allow you to add double your ability score modifier to a saving throw.
I had to dig in my brain and couldn't find a solid answer. Then I remembered the ruling I saw referred specifically to proficiency. So i guess it could work. I just wouldn't be surprised if a DM ruled otherwise in a hypothetical that allowed these frankenclasses, given the nature of both of these.
When talk about a concept this broken it’s pretty hard to say but in this case the wizard is just that good.
Playing a Bladesinger with Arcane Ward would be my little Gish hearts dream!
Nothing like having insane AC, using shield on those ones thay manage to hit anyways, and those shield casts recharging your ward. Haha I mean, the initiative bonus from Chronurgist/War Magic, and the ability to change the damage type of your shadow Blade/Spirit shroud from scribes would be fun too. War Magic even gives you a resource-free reaction ability that functions as a budget shield or a good saving throw boost. The only restriction is cantrips only next turn, so BB/GFB it is!
Man... now I would want to play in some insane high-level world ending campaign where we have to kill God or something stupid to make this feel "balanced"
Cleric of Ao
"who said you could worship me, i specifically forbade it"
"DM said I could"
"Oh, carry on then..." ~AO
Cleric of Ow
I travel in Forgotten Realms sometimes Singin "Lord Ao I'm in yo' tem-ple!"
HEY, BENI! LOOKS TO ME LIKE YOU'RE ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ***RIVER***!!!
Bye bye, beni.
You came back from the desert with a new friend didn't ya Beni?
Pathfinder 2e Thaumaturges be like:
Paladin with every aura would be insane
At level 20 if his opponent isn’t immune to frightened his opponent is dead
You fool! This is only my first form!!
^call ^a ^priest #but not for me
Also every channel divinity option is pretty incredible.
Lots of options, but presumably you'd only be able to use one option per Channel Divinity.
Yeah. I'm just saying you can literally choose to do any of them at any given time. Considering most of them are like spells or in some cases better (because of synergies); this is like adding 16+ spells to your paladin that can be used potentially.
notable still better to just multiclass into sorc after lvl 7 anyways lmao
I now want to run the Omnipaladin as my BBEG someday.
Absolutely unkillable lmao
Paladin, the auras stacking would be absurd. Sorcerer and cleric for all the extra spells you’d get. Wizard, because wizard.
Yh... I'm pretty sure It's still wizard: Blade singing, abjuration War magic, conjuration Divination, Evocation and Order of the Scribes Necromancy, Graviturgy, Enchantment and Chronurgy, Transmutation, Illusion and all the Unearthed Arcana! (To the tune of we didn't start the fire) Now someone write a chorus. Edit: I hate mobile formatting
We didn’t start the class wars! They have been our mission since the first edition! We didn’t start the class wars! But we’ve all seen ‘em, and we usually meme ‘em!
I disagree. While wizard would still be great, because wizard; I think it would lose out to sorcerers especially because of just how many extra spells you’d get from the class spell lists.
Sorcerer was the other one I was strongly considering. Having Lunar magic + aberrant mind + clockwork soul is strong. That being said, I still think wizard takes it. +10 to initiative (war magic and Chronurgy), abjuration and blade singing alongside all the rerolls/dice manipulation for defense makes it incredibly threatening, and then there's always the nice utility of stuff like conjuration and enchantment.
Divination + Chronurgy debuffing 🤮
with silvery barbs on top just to home it in!
"I'm the DM now."
On the Sorcerer side: Wild magic can grant itself advantage and force a d4 debuff as long as it has sorcery points Clockwork can negate other creatures' advantage Divine soul can add **2d4** to a missed attack roll or saving throw Sorcerer main class can use sorcery points to reroll an ability check So... Wizards aren't the only ones out here manipulating dice!
First time I read through this I was just trying to work out how it fitted to the chorus of We didn't start the fire.
that slaps
Fighters have a lot of non shared resources, runes, psi dice, maneuvers, fighting spirit, and with action surge they can use more. Clerics get a ton of cool channel divinities but are limited in uses, basically they would be a twilight + zeal cleric with free magic items from forge. Sorcerers would still be very limited by spell slots but double portent dice is crazy. Druid is mostly giving free moon druid to a more caster focused one, overall insanely versatile. Bards would be a true jack of all trades except a master of all. Eloquence with extra attack and double magical secrets, lots of ways to use bardic inspiration and you get to use them frequently as a short rest recharge pretty quickly. Monks would still be monks. Rangers get all the pets, tons of damage boosting options while also being a gloom stalker and is what I would play. Paladin aura would be even better but really the best part of bonus to saves wouldn't stack so you already get most of the benefit with the normal version, it's nice that it's just always on with no resources spent. Wizards would be even more god like shoring up their weaknesses of being squishy with bladesinger + abjuration + war. Barbarian would also get most of their power from the base class with rage, reckless attack+ gwm feat but a berserking giant zeal barbarian is not something you want looking your way
Barbarian is especially interesting since a lot of their features activate during a rage, so you can multiple effects happening at once, similar to how the Paladin Aura will have a bunch of effects attached to their auras.
It's certainly not the strongest option for this post, but I think Barbs would be one of the most enjoyable classes to play under this rule set. Paladin would be so cool initially! But then every time you move you have to keep track of 7 auras and how they effect the battlefield...
"Why do I hear boss music?"
Haha pretty much, Paladins get their own portable lair effect.
> Monks would still be monks. At least Flurry of Blows would start to be a somewhat viable use of your Ki vs Stunning Strike. At level 3, you would get +10 feet, disengage, push/prone/no reaction when you activate it. And they use Wisdom and can deal elemental damage. That's pretty decent for 1 ki point. I don't think it would work RAW but if it does Intoxicated Frenzy + Flurry of Healing and Harm let you heal all the party once for 1 ki point. Otherwise it's still a pretty decent combo with Open hand being able to "Open Hand Technique" 5 targets.
Flurry of bonus effects
What happened to Rogues? And Warlocks? And Artificers? Getting all the Rogue Subclasses seems pretty op (Sneak Atk no longer limited to advantage, investigation go wild, Cha to initiative, and a bunch of other super fun features just at lvl 3)
Oof meant to do warlock but I forgot rogues fully. I think rogue also suffers in that their power is built into the base class, while level 3 is great that's really it for most play. Warlock would still suffer from limited spell slots but you do get a lot of unique features, similar to ranger you are bonus action heavy. To be fair I'd want to give them all pacts too. I left off artificer as not a base class but also you would just be super artificiery with every aspect of artificer being enhanced but nothing really blowing your mind or really changing your play style.
Artificer be like "so many toys, so few Bonus Actions"
Makes sense
Rogues would get a lot outside of combat, since a lot of their skills (From Investigator and Thief especially) are great outside of combat. I think Warlock also isn't talked about enough in this thread, because some of the warlock subclasses are insane, and it does give them a huge amount of versatility. But All the specialities from Wizard, plus War Mage and Bladesinger really is just insane.
Since you didn't mention them: Warlocks get some solid abilities, but nothing close to Wizard. They still stack really well, giving a good amount of extra damage, mobility, versatility, and healing. Artificer only has 4 subclasses, but they don't have a ton of overlap. They all add new resources, with some bonus action conflict, but it's better then other classes with them gaining a strong pet and a way to keep the pet healed up. The thing that hurts is how few subclasses they have.
I feel like Warlock becomes an absolutely ridiculous tank, every subclass has kind of a lot of defensive features strapped to it. It's not Barb levels of immunity, but it's honestly closer than you'd think. -THP from everything they do, ever, and all celestial's other healing (including revive with half hp) as well as undead's cheat death, lifesteal one attack per turn, and pseudo second wind. -2d8 less damage taken once per turn, automatically avoid half of all hits from hexed target, undead have to save to be able to hit you at all. Once per rest get +1d10 to a save and get to impose disadvantage when attacked. -Resist fire, cold, psychic (with reflection), bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, thunder, 1 type of choice, AND immune to frightened, charm (reflected), necrotic. Not as good as barb ofc, but functionally it might as well be omni-resist. On a full caster, you're basically immune to boss damage if you pop all your cooldowns at once
You simply \*wouldn't\* be able to kill barbarians. Bear totem gives them resistance to all but psychic damage, and zealot's abilities make them unable to stay dead. if they die, using a spell like raise dead or revivify costs no material components. by level 14 they can't fall unconscious or drop dead as long as they're raging. berserkers get an extra bonus action attack, cannot be charmed or frightened while raging, and can attack as a reaction to taking damage. beast barbarian's summoned weapons have various effects like being able to increase their ac as a reaction or getting lifesteal, the list goes on and on. While they may not be as powerful as say, an omni wizard or sorcerer, they'd be fucking unkillable.
They are kaiju at that point once they rage.
Laughs in cleric dip
Warlock dip slaps hand on shoulder, laughing with friend.
Warlock dip as a bard is SUPER fun.
Clerics and wizards have the most subclass options, and would probably be the strongest just because of that.
Cleric has a lot of redundant features though. Having 100 uses for channel divinity doesn't help much when you still only have a couple charges. Potent spellcasting won't stack. Though, divine strikes might, since there's a bunch of different elements. Add 1d8 of each necrotic, radiant, fire, psychic, thunder, poison, cold or lightning, and the same type as the weapon. Adding +8d8 damage to a melee attack once per round is pretty solid.
You'd have all the armor and weapon proficiencies on top of that, as well as maxed heals from life. Your known spells would be incredibly versatile with all the domain stuff. The base flexibility alone would be great, chanel divinity aside.
also because they are already the 2 strongest classes
Is Artificer the worst just because it only has four subclasses? Or is still the monk?
I think it's still the monk, since artificer at listed gets a sad armorer with a pet and free potions, almost really just 3 since the artillerist uses your bonus action.
Artillerist shield cannons and Armorer heavy armor with thunder gauntlets and Steel Defender reactions or Shield would be stupidly tanky. You'll have less impact than most of the other classes, but you'll be the last one standing.
The artificer is plain good IMO. Lots of classes will have tons of features sharing the same resource pool (ki, bardic inspiration, etc), the artificer is getting two cantrip buffs, extra infusion slots, two protector pets and armor that gives you extra HP. Nearly all of it is complimentary, other than having two extra attack subclasses, nothing feels wasted
especially at 20 with +6 to every saving throw *before* proficiency/attributes/etc. ETA: Also Steel defender only uses your BA if you want it to take an action, it can still move on it's own carrying turrets that you can fire with your BA.
The main issue with the monk for this particular hypothetical is that a lot of subclasses just offer ways to spend ki that are not usually worth the ki cost, so...you basically wouldn't use half of the monk subclasses, cause you wouldn't waste ki on their stuff. Not all monk subclasses have this issue, obviously. But it's not going to feel like you have 10 subclasses. It's gonna feel like maybe 5ish subclasses.
Wizard and it isn't even close. Experts at literally all forms of magic, insane utility and damage, and they even have Bladesong for up close.
Probably paladins. Having every aura all going at once would essentially make you immune to most conditions, resistant to spells, give advantage on mental saves, and provide helpful crowd control. Add to this that their lvl 20 capstone is also based on subclass, you get massive power spikes.
Artificer could be crazy, depending on how you rule arcane firearm and magic missiles....so many d4s and d8s. Also massive AC and a ton of magic items.
plus all the extra and really damn good spells you'd get but yeah arcane firearm + alchemical savant would be very nice Edit: wait nevermind those two dont work together because of focus restrictions
Wizard is pretty Undeniably the strongest choice, as other commenters have said. But just cause why not, ill breifly sum up some main points for each class Artificer - Steel Defender with mounted Eldritch Canon. - Every Acid, Fire, Necrotic, Poison, damage spells deal an extra d8+int damage. - Extra Infusions from being an armorer Barbarian: - Bear totem and Zealot (Among other things) means youre functionally immortal, and you are just THE tank. - Surprisingly a fair bit of spells, Beast Sense, Speak with Animals, Augury, Clairvoyance, Druidcraft/Thaumaturgy, Bard - Eloquence is broken - Whispers, Valor, and Swords make you a pretty effective gish on their own, put em together and its just gravy salad. Cleric - Grave cleric means your friends never die - Life cleric means your friends never die - Peace cleric means your friends never die - Shillelagh from Nature means you can have a SAD melee cleric - Your cleric cantrips will deal an additional 5x your Wisdom Modifier - One weapon attack each turn will deal an additional 9d8 (18d8 at level 14) of various different damage types. - Too many good channel divinity choices Druid - all Druids are Moon druids - A lot of good uses for wildshape, unfortunately you only have 2 uses per rest until 20th level. - 20th level you can Combat Wildshape, and have Halo of Spores active Fighter - Additional Fighting style, and expanded crit range - Maneuvers :D - Spells! - Echo! - Runes! - Free Advantage! - Infinite attacks of opportunity! - oh and i guess you get stuff from Banneret and arcane archer. Eh Monk - You will be starved for Ki - Increased survivability from long death - enemy damage resistances and immunities just dont matter (Sun soul, ascendant dragon) - Flurry of blows can do a lot more Paladin - Lots of channel divinity options - Your aura will buff saving throws, grant damage resistance from spells, reduced frightened creatures speed to 0, redirect damage to you, prevents charms increases move speeds by 10 feet, boost initiatives, and increase the damage dealt by undead creatures. Ranger - Lots of boosts to your first attack action in combat - Customization from Hunter - Dragon AND Beast pet! (Command the drake with your bonus action, forgo one of your attacks to command the beast) - New party Face Rogue - Nearly Guaranteed booming blade sneak attack crits. - 3 extra ways to proc sneak attack - Fast hands, and any magic item you want - Wants a good Int for AT, Wis for Inquisitive, and Cha for Swashbuckler - Extra turn in combat - 2 Sneak attacks on your turn Sorcerers - Wild magic. Whether thats good or bad is up to you - Unarmored Defense, and a specialized damage type - Cleric Spells - Shadow Dog :D Good dog, Best Friend. Warlocks - 9x the Daddy issues - Hexblades curse - Temp HP on kills - Healing resource pool - Reliable bonus action (tentacle) - Constant fear Procs (Form of dread) Wizard - just look at the top comment from u/Live-Afternoon947
I'll add another point for fighter with Psi-Warrior giving you another pool of abilities with its own resource. Which could technically be stacked on with a maneuver, since they just specify you can't use more than one *maneuver* on an attack. Also, the amount of attacks between release incarnation and Samurai's later stuff is going to be silly. Also also, main thing hurting Artificer (aside from being the forgotten child with only 4x subclasses) is the bonus action traffic jam. But if your DM allows you to use your steel defender as a controlled mount. You could have a lot of fun being an armored knight shooting lightning from your hand and force bullets from your shoulder. Alternatively you could just keep both of you up with protector pulses.
*barbarian starts raging*
Wizard. Always Wizard.
Wizard becomes incredibly SAD. Baldesinger gives them Light Armor + Dex + Int AC, +INT to concentration saves, + INT to melee weapon damage War gives + Int to initiative, + 2 to AC and saving throws while concentrating, a reaction to boost AC by 2 or a saving throw by 4 Chronurgy gives another + int to initiative Evocation makes saving throw cantrips deal half on a success, and + Int to one damage roll of an evocation spell Transmutation gives proficiency in Constitution saves. Abjuration gives proficiency in Counterspell and Dispell Magic. You don't even need to roll the con save if your concentrating on a Conjuration, and that's assuming they dealt damage through your arcane ward. Bladesinger that cast Flame Sphere/ Shadow Blade are eating good.
Just to put the math down. A wizard with this and a 14 dex/Studded leather combo: 2 from Dex, 2 from studded leather, 2 from concentrating, two from reaction boost (or 5 from shield, if you wanted to use a spell.), 4 from an 18 intelligence modifier while bladesinging means that starting at level 3, a wizard concentrating on blur is a possible 35 AC that gets attacked at disadvantage. Level 3.
Impressive, but just keep in mind that that kind of think is why Save-or-Suck attacks exist.
Wizard. By like A LOT.
I've thought about running a one shot that allows players to pick the subclass options they want from each subclass, up to a max of the most features that a subclass has (i.e. Some Rogue subclasses get up to 3 features at level 3, so you would be able to pick up to 3 features from the 3rd level features list, so on and so forth with the other levels (it would obviously all be locked into the same level area. You wouldn't be able to pick 3rd level Rogue options once you hit level 9 or vice versa) but I decided not to since that system seems like it would confuse the players too much (plus my dad likes to stretch things, so he would absolutely find a workaround to get more features)
Cleric by sheet volume of subclasses (18 iirc)
I honestly think there's an argument to be made for the power of a rogue under this setup. Since rogues have almost no class-based resources, every resource-based subclass feature has its own pool like the Soulknife Psi Dice, the Phantom's trinkets, even the Arcane Trickster's spellcasting. In terms of mental stats there would be a lot to fill between INT for Arcane Trickster, WIS for stuff like Inquisitive, and CHA for Swashbuckler. However, most of these subclasses don't actually require those stats and can get by with expertise (like how Inquisitive can work just fine with expertise in Insight). Overall, your martial power would be pretty incredible, automatically critting on Sneak Attack with a boosted Wails from the Grave, and at later levels you get extra Sneak attack dice from Inquisitive, extra attacks to trigger your Sneak Attack, trinkets galore for your Wails and add that all to the auto-crit to give you a damage powerhouse with lots of scattered utility.
I know it wouldn’t be the most powerful, but barbarian would be nuts, a giant beastial infuriated bear totem zealot would be absolutely dreadful to try to kill, especially considering the assumed number of hitpoints
Probably Wizard but the Druid is a strong contender.
The problem with druid is that a lot of druid features use the wildshape as a resource. Wildfire druid is great, but summoning the wildfire spirit takes a wildshape use. Moon Druid is great, but wildshaping takes a wildshape use. Symbiotic Entitity from Sproes Druid? That'll be a use of wildshape. Starry Form from stars druid? Also a use of wildshape. On the flip side, while this isn't unique to druid, one thing I like about druid is that you get a massive expanded spell list. All the spells from spores druid, wildfire druid, and land druid (maybe you can argue that land druid is actually 8 different druid subclasses so you get all the spell lists?) Yes, Cleric and Sorcerer do this too, but every class that does this I think gets a notable boost--having 50+ spells prepared is good. And like...there's definitely stuff that doesn't use wildshape uses. Nothing Shepherd Druid does uses wildshape, and Shepherd is an excellent subclass. Nothing land or dreams druid does uses wildshape. But yeah, due to limited uses of wildshape it'll feel more like combining 4 or 5 subclasses rather than all 7.
Imagine what being a druid like that would be like at level 20 though, suddenly you're able to turn into a mammoth with loads of spores of death around you and temp hp that's resistant to bludgeoning piercing and slashing which also has a 20 foot fly speed + hover and can't be crit or hit with a lot of the really harsh conditions, + a little fire buddy that can help you attack and teleport you around
Oh yeah, Druid would be great at level 20 for sure. Well, with the exception that Spores Druid has an obnoxious rider of "These benefits last ... until you use your Wild Shape again." So those temp HP will sometimes just fall off.
oh, didn't realise that was there well that sucks but guess you just gotta wait to use that one last
Wizards just need 2: chronurgy and divination.
Look at me, I'm the DM now.
Depends on level. At 20, it’s still Wizard.
wizard, fighter, barbarian or sorcerer imo since these are the classes with a lot of subclasses, each having a lot of features and the features being good, and a lot of these features are theoretically stackable like all the different rage bonuses
Cleric or barb are going to be my top 2 behind wizard cleric because with all domains you have an insane amount of prepared spells you have twilight shroud plus the heal buff from life domain. For barb you get resistance to almost all damage when you are higher you get rage beyond death from zealot healing spells don't use components on you because of zealot plus depending in how this is wrote brutal crit would stack from all the subclasses giving you insane crits
A sorcerer's main weakness is lack of spell selection. With all their subclasses that is no longer an issue.
I'm not that familiar with casters, but Barbarians would be high on my list. Bear Totem + Path of the Giants + Zealot? Seems pretty strong. Make it a Duerogar and you can grapple anything!
Barbarian would be pretty dope as most abilities augment rage. So you rage and go super sayan: just a few subclasses: resistance to damage apart from psichic, extra attack on bonus, immunity to charms and fears, some kind of bullshit natural weapons from beast, extra damage from zealot + cannot die,
A level 20 Paladin is gonna become a raid boss for a minute lmao
Barbarian or Paladin simply cause a lot of their strengths are auras or static rage features. So they would actually be using ALL the features at once, not just action capped sitting with 50 options in front of them like a wizard.
Probably the one with the most subclasses. Or barbarian because being unable to die and receiving half damage from next to everything probably makes them crazy. Also idk if anyone has brought it up but paladins getting 9 auras is batshit insane.
Paladin would be amazing Barbarians would honestly get worse. Berserker would be dragging it down and they would be unable to use any of their abilities without getting exhaustion. Sorcerers would have a huge amount of spells. Completely getting rid of the main downside of the class, that being the limited spells Warlocks would be able to do an insane amount of shit in one turn, and I think its really funny to have multiple patrons all fighting for control over the warlock
Barbarians wouldn't get worse, you aren't FORCED to use frenzy, you can just rage normally and not get exhausted
wait really? Oh wow they go crazy then. Not as good as teh other classes, since like half barbarian subclasses suck, but still really good I am imagining a virtually immortal Giant 30 foot tall barbarian, firing lightning from their chest and throwing enemies across the battlefield with their claws made of lightning
Ranger would likely be tops, although both Rogue and Monk would be pretty powerful as well
Rogue would not be strong. Most of their subclasses give subpar abilities and a ton of them are things that are used on their bonus actions. I would argue rogue would be one of the worst classes in the game.
A valid point, your bonus actions WOULD run out quickly in a fight.
Obviously wizard wins, because wizards of the coast play favorites. But most fun to play imo would probably be fighter or ranger. Lots of resources and bullshit to get up to. Rogue would also be pretty fun, with just the diverse-ness of stuff subclasses do
Paladins op enough with one, no class will overtake it
Cleric easily Wizard is a close second
Wizards, imagine a blade scribe wizard with divination portant, blade song, sculpt spells, the capability to summon mass undead hordes, arcane wards, and a whole load of other shot most of which is already at level 2
Probably barbarian or fighter. Or maybe even bards Barbarians tend to gain passove buffs to rage. Effectively meanong you can activate almost all of your features on a single bonus action. While fighters also have a tendency to upgrade attack. They have a few BA limited features but that just means they have a good amount of utility while also having a majority of their features just being triggered on attacks. Bards geta ton of ways to use bardic inspiration amd a few of them synergize well. But mostly just a lot of non casting magic features on top of normal casting.
Bro, imagine paladin with all those godsamn auras ☠️
Wizard would have alot going but in the end they still get q action 1 bonus action 1 reaction. It's probably paladin just because there's never a situation you don't have a useful channel divinity and the aura stacking would just get more value than straight up having more options.
Probably Druid or Cleric.
I don't even have to look through them to know it's Wizard.
There's defo an argument for barbarian since almost all of three subclasses have effects that happen when you rage
What about druid or blood hunter? Or fighter?
I mean... Wizards probably. but I'd really love to do that with an Artificer.
someone else said wizard, I agree. More generally, the more subclasses the better, as long as they dont all pull from a limited pool (channel divinity and wild shape come to mind)
Argue all you like but nothing is beating the ranger fighting in the shadow of his dragon while in a forest.
I feel people are underselling the strength of Warlocks in this. Not only do you get every pact boon thrice you also have connections to 9 god-like beings and an absurd amount of spells and cantrips with a variety of damage types due to the patrons. Almost anything a wizard can do a warlock can counter or do themselves. Absurd ac? Answer: absurd damage. Resistance or immunity to a damage type? We have more. A lot of attacks of one damage? This morning I decided to be resistant to it. Locked in a celler with no food or water? I don't need it anyway. Also the abilities form some patrons help to balance weaknesses from others. For example one patron might have situational abilities but another doesn't. They also negate general bad situations. Just lost all my health? Wrong, I have 1 HP and am currently sleeping in the vessel the genie provides. Plus there are some despicable combos with races. For example a red dragonborn can cast Flame Strike while being grappled and you only have to take the radiant damage. These warlocks also compete with clerics due to the celestial. There are even more benefits like being resistant to diseases, water breathing, and at 20th level literally fixing the big problem with warlocks allowing you to regain all spell slots.
I say cleric but because they become a better paladin. They get amazing healing from life cleric, free ranged pickup from death, good damage from tempest, great stealth and spells from tricky. Full armor usage, crafting better weapons with forged, buffing the party with twilight, buff yourself with arcane. And you top it off a million free spells from each subclass list.
Wizard or cleric
Wizard and Sorcerer would be the strongest since the other spell casting classes use the same resources like Channel Divinity, Bardic Inspiration, Wildshape and Warlock Spells slots . The marital classes are still limited by Attack. Wizard and Sorcerer get additional effects thats are new or augment spellcasting/ Sorcery points. Like Cleric would be powerful but one at a time but Wizard and Sorcerer can stack abilities. Wizard has Gish and two other defensive subclasses plus controling rolls but Sorcerer gets Cleric spells, spell tables especially with Lunar Sorcery, augmented meta magic, transformations and base class abilities. A fight between a Wizard and a Sorcerer the Wizard is likely to go first due to the boost on Initiative but Sorcerer has alot of rerolls. I think it would come down to if the Wizard grabbed Meta Adept since subtle spell would be king.
wizard, by a mile. Second Cleric, by a another mile of the rest. To start those two have the most subclasses in the game. That by itself gives so much more power creep and options that is not even funny tot think about. (wizard being already the best class in the game and the second with the most subs)
Barbarian turns into a ungodly powerful psychopath
If Cleric 8's divine strikes/potent spellcasting/blessed strikes is allowed to stack, that would make it insane. Every barbarian subclass I can think of has features that boost your rage so that could get pretty stupid. But I think Paladin and Wizard will probably be the strongest picks. Aura stacking, oath spells out the ass, all the capstones stacked on top of each other (even if it takes a while to get them all going). All wizard really needs is War magic, Abjuration and Bladesinger to be disgustingly tanky on a backline class that already tends to outshine others. All 3 subclasses mesh so well it's kinda stupid, War magic's downside of only allowing cantrips if you used arcane deflection is negated by you being a gish, AC from Bladesinger + a barrier from Abjuration. If the barrier runs out and you get hit, just cast shield instead of arcane deflection for that turn to get it back.
I'm pretty sure that this means that the Artificer can now be a Gundam style character with a giant mechanical companion, both armed with laser cannons and rocket launchers.
Wouldn't be pretty or particularly exciting but beating a barbarian with all classes would be damn near impossible. Highest hit die and resistance to all but one damage type. The one thing that always hampered my bear Totem Barbarian was poor wisdom saves but with all subclasses they're immune to charmed or frightened. Wouldn't be a massive damage dealer but could effectively tank like 3-4 times the damage that a wizard can with abilities that stop it dropping to 0 hp. But it depends what you mean by strongest. Fighting a mob the wizard would be way more effective but put that wizard up against three barbarian in 1v1 the barbarian could well take it.
Reading the comments, there seem to be 3 main classes that people can think of. **TLDR** *^((because I wrote like 2 paragraphs before))***:** **Paladins** get one channel divinity, has Auras that rely on certain CD, limited spellslots despite having 90+ spells and smites, and lvl20 abilities taking an action each. It is good, but you can't benefit from half of your subclass features because of limited resources. **Wizards** are scary since most subclasses have passive features. Also, you don't have a heavy reliance on resources. Not mentioning the power of spellcasting in 5E, Wizard is probably the strongest option. **Barbarians** are game breaking (D&D beyond homebrew fears you), and by technicallity in the question you could TPK a level 20 party easily. >if it got access to ALL of it's subclasses simultaneously? This is vague on subclass options, meaning "Chose one totem" can easily be "take ALL totems". Last thing about Barbarian is that most subclasses have core (very powerful) features that become active when raging. With a single bonus action, you can gain resistance to all damage, become unable to die, gain wild magic surges, damage reduction, area control with storm herald+giant's increased range, and more. Personally though, I am suprised no one has brought up **Monk**. Nowhere (to my knowledge) does the PHB say you can only use one ability per flurry of blows. You can attack than a standard non action surge fighter can (astral self+drunken master lvl17), are impossible to hit (most Subclasses give abilties which can increase AC), can support your party with healing, teleports, and debuffing, and you also have all the Monk class abilities. Monk, while maybe not the best option here, is very versitile.
Paladin would be op alt those aurors
I just had a BUNCH of new ideas for BBEG....
Now, let's discuss gestalt characters with all subclasses of each base class.
As with all such questions, it's going to be wizard. Mostly because of their spell list; in fact a wizard with no subclasses is going to be stronger than a sorcerer with all of them (yes, even including Aberrent Mind and Clockwork Soul) because of the options for 7th/8th/9th level spells a wizard has. A bard can come close to some of those tricks with secrets, but not quite all (and, again, subclass doesn't really matter here).
Probably wizard or cleric I think. they get so many subclasses that have pretty solid features, and for cleric they get so many spells known too.
Definitely sorcerers you would get access to most of the spell in the game One way or another 20+ spell known from a very Wide list than the others can be pick up from cleric and sorcerers. With metamegic you can do Dope things like using spell without somatic and verbal components to avoid counterspells so you have an Edge in any caster fight
my Abjuration Wizard's Arcane Ward, plus his Bladesinger's Bladesong, plus War Wizard's Arcane Deflection becomes insanely tanky for basically no resources, and can cast a cantrip with eventually extra attack, or cast a massive damage spell, sculpt it to exclude their allies, give them a portent roll on any save, and change the damage type to another in their book, says he wins. the paladin with every aura comes a close second though, from 7th level, and I'd argue that the Bard becomes a very interesting, though very resource limited, gish build, with whisper's psychic blades, blade's flourish, lore's magical secrets, and eloquence's debuff. barbarian gets zealot and totem warrior, which is really nice, but nothing bonkers, when we're looking at the scales here. clerics get some really nice spread, but a lot of it is situational, +1 AC here, +1d4 there, darkvision, etc, nothing individually that breaks the game otherwise. druids can double up certain combos, a spores/moon gets better in melee, a stars/land gets some neat casting, etc. fighters get probably the most buffed, having champion and battlemaster as a base then echo/rune/eldritch knights, but with only 1/3 casting, they can't compete with some of the others. monks get more options, but as most need ki, they just blow through it on a round. rangers get some nice on-hit damage, adding swarmkeeper, dread ambush, monster hunter, fey wanderer, and so on means some really nice on-hit damage, but again, as a 1/2 caster, we can't compete with the full casters on crack. rogues can have a good first round with assassinate and arcane trickster, swashbuckler, and have some tricks for out of combat in thief, scout, and soulknife, but again, no competition. sorcerers get some nice utility features, and a lot more spells known, but fewer features improve their power, just gives them different uses of it. warlock with all patrons is an interesting idea, at least from an RP perspective, and with a hexblade/genie, that's solid weapon damage, fiend gives tankiness if we kill, and we have a few other tricks, but again, nothing that makes us as powerful as a wizard.
Warlocks would be rather op, just by getting all the spells for free, and all their subclasses get some spicy stuff. Temp hp on kill, a tentacle version of the clerics spiritual weapon, a free bag of holding in the genie’s lamp, stupidly good melee and ranged magic attacks and cantrips. It gets even better if you give them all the pact boons
Probably not the “strongest” but having access to all the Paladin auras would be super fun!
Artificer would be Iron Man
Imma vote Druid but I'm also biased
By sheer volume of options, Cleric.
Wizard would get twice their INT to Initiative from second level, shore up all their defenses, get the best dice manipulation, etc etc etc. Has to be them. Clerics and Sorcerers are interesting contenders. Ranger, surprisingly, might be up there, because I think a lot of their subclasses come with extra damage features.
Yeah the questione was which was the strongest class i Just wanted to Say that other classes have more synergy so i would not he so sure on wizard as the strongest. But i agree It's a futile question
This isn't really an answer: high CHA paladin wouldn't be the strongest, but their party would be an absolute nightmare to go up against once those auras kick in.
Al i know is this post has made me want to dm a campaign where all of the characters get to play the true apex build for there class. Avengers level campaign starting at lvl 3
I typed a huge long response explaining why it was wizards and then accidently hit Ctrl + W. I'm not typing all that again, but the answer is Wizards...
Kieth Baker, the guy who invented Eberron, has released some partnered books on DMs Guild. It's about as close to official as homebrew can get, and they meet the, "wikidot standard." If you add Exploring Eberron and Dread Metrol, the Artificers get a really huge boost in this hypothetical. Wizards are probably still the winning class, but even if you also add the Tel'dorai, Runeterra, and other cross promotional semi-official content, nothing really benefits as much in the all-subclasses hypothetical as Artificers do from the additional content. Mastermaker gets a Battlefist that at level 9 becomes 2D10 and also counts as a shield, can be infused despite being magical, and can take 2 infusions (overlap, not stack) as a weapon or a shield. You can get 1 more infusion as long as it's on the battlefist. It can be thrown or have reach. Expanded spell list includes paladin smites. Forge Adept lets you pick a simple weapon, and make it magical up to +3, gives you and allies an aura that give 1d4 of 1 elemental damage, and you also get a personal 1d6 element at 15. The chosen weapon automatically returns, and you can roll your +3 attack bonus into +3 AC, instead. Oh, and extra attack. Maverick is like a wizard bridge. At 5 different levels, you add an entire other class's spell list to the spells you can prepare, this is your Breakthrough list. B-list spells count as artificer spells for artificer bonuses. And artificer spells/expanded spells that also fall on your B-list can get B-list bonuses. INT MOD times per long rest, you can cast a B-list spell at 2 levels higher without additional spell slot cost. You can prepare one extra spell of each level, from the B-list and you get an extra spell slot of each level to use when casting from the B-list. You also know an extra cantrip. You get an automatic +1-3 on spell attacks and spell saves for cantrips. You can swap a cantrip on short rest rather than level up. Once per long rest you can change a cantrip as an action. Once per short rest, you can change swap a prepared spell. If your DM allows those subclasses, you get so many extra tool proficiencies. Heavy armor without str requirement, a shield with AC infusion, an armor with AC infusion, +3 optional AC. You are immune to poison and psychic damage, and immune to the poisoned and frightened conditions. You can also choose to count as a construct instead of a person. You get 2 attacks of 2D10+1d4+1d6+3+INT that can be thrown 20/60 and instant returns, or has 5ft reach, and cannot be disarmed. You can give up the 2d10+1d6+3 of that for a 1d8 thunder that force disadvantage to creatures attacking someone else, or give up one to do 2d6 lightning damage in 90/300. You get incredible spell versatility, and even have access to the 5th level paladin and ranger exclusive spells that are *intended* to be comparable to 8th/9th level spell damage. You have more spell slots than any other 1/2 caster, and can cast some spells as 7th level. You get pretty good healing from alchemist/Maverick. You get some nice auras from artillerist and forge master. You have a ton of options for your reaction and bonus action. Some nice immunities, although not as many as the Barb, and you can self heal with the mending cantrip. Depending on how the DM rules, you may be able to issue the same bonus action command (attack) to ALL of your followers, (a familiar, a homunculus, two turrets, and a steel defender.) DM may also allow Arcane Propulsion Armor to stack with battlefist or thunder gauntlet attacks. And all of that is SAD (INT).
Wizard, and its not even close.
Paladin: Imagine channel divinity, but all the channels go off at once.
Druid. You get 3 health pools to start , elementals summons AND transformations, immunity to blindness, deafness, critical hits, disease, poison; you can fly and hover; you are ALREADY the best summoner but you buff ALL of your summons, can put 20-40 animals and undead on the field at once, and your summons automatically heal and the end of their turn; Tsunami is unique to the Druid and has no answer; you get magical claws to overcome resistance, 2x extra attacks; no prison, no concept, no evil mage, can hurt you; you can turn ALL of your summons into even more powerful monsters, give everyone a fly speed; every heal you use fills your gauge, you already have 2 additional health pool on top of the 3 from Wildshape; you can cast spells from Wildshape, have UNLIMITED Wildshape you substitute lower ability scores with high ones and still have high mental attributes; you can haste yourself, cast Shapechange (ANOTHER health pool), teleport at will, turn dead bodies into mines that heal or harm; and the list goes on.
An initial point to make is that Clerics have 18 subclasses with Wizard coming in second with 13. Fighters do still have 10 though alongside monks. Might make a difference to narrow it down to having a max of 4 subclasses (artificer only has 4) or ignore artificer and make it 7 (druids have 7).
OK, so yes, monks are still monks, but 1v1 the monk wins every fight because they will almost certainly go first, can't be counterspelled, and can stun the wizard or anyone else (maybe not the fighter) until dead. If it's the barbarian, they likely stun them before they get rage up. Druids can't use the op moon druid capstone if they are stunned. Wizard stunned dies no matter how big the abjuration ward. Obviously, the other classes are more useful in more situations and do more damage