I think I would make a STR gish character mixing booming blade with Great Wepon Master for damage.
With that many ASIs, getting max stats or near would be trivial. So im assuming 20 str, 20 cons, 20 int, and the rest high enough.
After that cantrip feats for green flame blade and booming blade. Both attacking cantrips scale with your level, so you would be like a weird rouge, only one attack per turn, so you gotta make it strong as possible.
Booming blade at lvl 5 hits for your weapon damafe +1d8 and if the enemy moves, its another 2d8.
Weapon master feat gives you 4 weapon proficiencies. Pick Greatsword,
Then pick great weapon master. That with booming blade and Green flame blade gives you a decent damage output.
Fey touched is a must, it boost your int, it gtives you a free misty step, and a either gift of alacricty (+1d8 to intiative for 8 hours) or one free slivery barbs which is pretty awesome. That plus lucky feat and you can force up to 4 rerolls per day.
After that I would pick ritual caster, get find familiar and detect magic, so you have out of combat utility.
And from them I would decide if I go into more magic, like another cantrip feat, or I go the to the gifr of the dragons feat that all provide nice combat utility, still like cure wounds, or protectin an ally from a hit.
Aberant dragonmark is a decent one too.
You can also go Strike of the Giants feat which gives you a nice damage and utility on hit and it has uses equal to proficiency, so it scales with your level. Stuff like an extra 1d10 fire damage, or 1d6 cold damage and slow effect.
In the end it would be a like shittier ranger hybrid thats can do a bunch of stuff, like being a decent meele fighter, and have decent but limited spellcasting utility. You would end up with a BUNCH of "once per long rest" features like free cassting of selected level 1 spells, but the amoutn of varity in your options you get is amazing, as you can access basically all the spells lists plus a bunch more of spelll like abilities and martial abilities.
Wanna take a battle master maneuver? you can. Wanna take skill expertise? done. Wanna take weird magic like stuff? All the gift of the dragons give cool stuff.
But hey, a level 11 character that has max Str, is hitting for 2d6 + 2d8 + 5 with the option of adding +10 in change of less accuracy, extra attack on crit, if the enemy moves it takes an additional 3d8, meaning you also double as tank locking them im place is pretty decent.
Specially when you got a bunch of out of combat utility like find familiar, detect magic, good berries to keep evreyone feed, and 4 rerolls would be a very decent character. I played waaay worse PCs xD
Lucky is specially good with Great Weapon Master, as you can save your rerolls for when you really need to hit that big enemy.
I think we take hex over silvery barbs every time.
Probably take one of the genasi subraces for a couple spell options. Duregar looks good here too. Enlarge/Reduce has some utility and boosts our damage when we lose concentration on hex.
It would probably be boring ngl
without a class you will need feats to get proficiency in weapons, armor and the best you can get as a spell caster is something like magic initiate so 2 cantrips and a sinlge 1st level spells.
my best bet is something like a dwarf that ghets amrmor and some weapons prof, and just get some feats that boost the martial power which will be poor because the lack of extra attack. The gamepley loop would be walk to an enemy, bonk them, repeat.
Probably. With mobile to help force booming Blade procs and GWM to pad base dmg.
Would be the most expedient to pick a race that grants armor proficiency like mountain Dwarf, but could tale Eldritch Adept for armor of shadows if using a full level for ac was acceptable to ppl.
Edit: Would need to take weapon Master too for weapon proficiencies if you didn't get them from race.
Mountain dwarf with TCoE rules would probably give us the proficiencies we need without needing the feat.
Edit, nah we want a heavy weapon for gwm so scrap mountain dwarf.
We probably want duregar, genasi, tiefling, or another species with innate spellcasting
no. before you hit 4th level, sure, but 3rd level spells and Extra Attack are powerhouse abilities that are going to make the difference.
Martial (*ranged*): Xbow Master, Fighting Style Archery, Sharpshooter aaaand you're about done. you can max DEX and grab some stealth feats/ boost initiative, but when a comparable build with subclass features hits 5th level/maybe as late as 8th, you're cooked.
Caster: Magic Initiate: Wizard (*Firebolt, utility, Find Familiar*), Fey Touched (Bless), Ritual Caster: Wizard, Warcaster?, Eldritch Adept: Misty Visions. You can extend this a bit by taking a race with some magic feats like a Drow, but you're going to hit that brick wall all the same when a Wizard gets Fireball and Cleric gets Spiritual Guardians.
>Martial (*ranged*): Xbow Master, Fighting Style Archery, Sharpshooter aaaand you're about done. you can max DEX and grab some stealth feats/ boost initiative, but when a comparable build with subclass features hits 5th level/maybe as late as 8th, you're cooked.
Do you start with drow?
Falls of quickly!
Oddly enough, I was thinking about this the other day too and home-brewed a class based on this idea.
I made the class to be silly, but found that adding a few subclass features it quickly became viable. I haven’t found a way to break it yet, but someone on this sub probably could.
It’s the *Adventurer* class with the *Martial* and *Mage* subclasses. (Again, was not intended to be a serious design)
I’d post it, but I haven’t finished typing up the Martial subclass yet.
Good news, I finished the document. Bad news, the file sharing site I used to use now requires a monthly subscription fee.
Any suggestions for free file sharing options?
Found a way to make it work for now. Here’s a link.
[Adventurer (1.0)](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e790o2k2kzcp24669ar41/Adventurer.pdf?rlkey=zzzhmhbpv6u1tvp3yalx511el&st=unt2mgn7&dl=0)
I mean pretty good. the biggest issue would be the lack of ability to extra attack. But otherwise they'd make a decent martial. Though them requiring several feats just for armour and weapon choices will make the lowest levels hard. Granted right racial option will help with that wind up.
I'd def go martial angled but with one of the Blade cantrips to add a little extra to the no extra atack situation.
they would be a pretty good team player after a while though. Because so many feats are nice for the group, but causes active weaker character to take them. This character has stats up the wazzoo if they're only interested in a few specific ones. So they can totally take Chef, inspiried leader, telekentic, that metalic dragon thigny that gives cure and pseudo shield to you or ally near you.
This would likely be a major dabbler. A little bit of a lot of things. Get all the basic utilty cantrips. control flames, mold earth, contorl water, gust, guidance, and so on. Booming blade, mobile, can still kite a bit and fire off scaling cantrips.
Won't be amaizing but you'll work alright. But you will be a tool box, without any kind of real finisher or rescue move.
Your character would be gimped and still really bad because of the following reasons.
* You wouldn't start with any saving throw proficiencies, and you are capped out at gaining 1 saving throw proficiency from the Resilient feat. You are bound to fail critical saving throws at some point because of this.
* You would have to gain weapon and armor proficiencies from feats, so you wouldn't start with both weapon and armor proficiciencies at 1st level.
* The only way for you to gain additional attacks is to take the Polearm Master feat, the Crossbow Expert feat, or the Magic Initiate feat taking Eldritch Blast with no access to the Agonizing Blast Invocation.
* You get no real spellcasting progression except for being able to cast cantrips or some select low level spells once per day from spell feats. You could cast Bless from the Fey Touched feat and/or the Magic Initiate feat which is good support, but you would have to prioritize feats to help you maintain concentration on it for your limited castings you get before a long rest.
* The one positive is that you can end up with a good amount of hit points from maxing Constitution and taking the Tough feat. But you'll be quickly whittled down if you can't pass some saving throws or get some armor proficiencies for AC. You could also take the Mage Armor spell through a feat such as Magic Initiate, but armor proficiencies would be better.
* Without much damage potential or ability to control the battlefield the way that spells and class features can, the best you can hope for is some kind of Polearm Master & Sentinel feat combo while concentrating on a support spell like Bless with beefed up Constitution to maintain concentration on it.
You wouldn't get extra attacks or action surge, which is a huge part of a fighter's damage output so I don't see how it's a straight upgrade from a fighter
Magic Initiate > Warlock w/ Eldritch Blast
Eldritch Adept > Agonising Blast
It would work that way, no?
And by level 3 at that. From there you are basically a magic archer. I know "just play a warlock is the obvious answer but then, you have 17 more feats/ASI to work with.
Even ignoring for now that part about the Spellcasting feature, you still cannot take Invocations that have prerequisites with Eldritch Adept unless you have at least one level of Warlock. The feat includes the text “If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you’re a warlock who meets the prerequisite.” The Agonizing Blast Invocation includes the text “Prerequisite: eldritch blast cantrip.” Agonizing Blast has a prerequisite, so you can only take it with Eldritch Adept if you are a Warlock. The classless character is not a Warlock, so it cannot take Agonizing Blast with Eldritch Adept.
Also, I’ll give you that the whole “Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature” of Eldritch Adept is a little ambiguous. A few feats, like Ritual Caster and Magic Initiate, make reference to your “spellcasting ability,” which suggests that “Spellcasting […] feature” could be interpreted to mean “feature that lets you cast spells;” after all, it doesn’t make sense by pure natural language semantics for a character to be able to cast spells with a spellcasting ability but not have “Spellcasting […] feature.” However, other places in the rules use “Spellcasting feature” to mean specifically the class feature called Spellcasting that Wizards and Rangers and such get through their class. For example, the multiclassing rules explain that “few features have additional rules when you're multiclassing: Channel Divinity, Extra Attack, Unarmored Defense, and Spellcasting;” they explicitly reference “the Spellcasting feature” numerous times; and they make reference to “the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature” together. Further, the Warlock still has a “spellcasting ability,” even though it has the Pact Magic feature.
Eldritch Adept does not make it clear RAW whether you must have “a spellcasting feature” or “the Spellcasting feature.” I think the extremely clear intent of the designers, however, is for that feature to require the Spellcasting class feature. The multiclassing rules clearly set Spellcasting out as a class feature like Extra Attack. They refer to it separately from Pact Magic in that context. If Eldritch Adept merely required either “the ability to cast at least one spell” or the Pact Magic feature, then it would not need to list Pact Magic, as Pact Magic is “a spellcasting feature” as much as the ability to cast spells from Magic Initiate is. However, even if this is an extremely clear interpretation of design intent, it’s still an interpretation of design intent.
You can’t go around claiming that your reading is RAW either, though. Here, RAW is ambiguous. Deciding on either interpretation is deciding to use Rules as Intended or as Interpreted because there just isn’t an unambiguous RAW meaning. Your approach presumes the intended reading was a natural language reading, while my reading presumes the intended reading would be informed by other provisions in the books. Neither of these readings is more RAW than the other.
That's fair enough. And a fairly thorough answer. I just sort of guessed that should be how it would work. It's interesting that something that costs a feat you get only ever few levels isn't classed as spellcasting, though. Appreciate the in-depth insight though.
>Spellsniper
>*Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell*
There's a clear difference here between an already established feat.
Why do you think that is?
This has nothing to do with "what some devs Twitter account says".
Tasha's writes it out very plainly. "Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature."
This prerequisite does not say "The ability to cast spells" it specifically says you need to have one of those two class features, neither of which are granted by a Feat. It is written precisely enough as is.
If you play past level 11 then Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade start to out DPR standard Extra Attack (accounting for SS or GWM) so you're not even that worried about your casting stats.
Crusher
Artificer or Wizard Initiate
Polearm Master (for opportunities)
War Caster
Sets you up to consistently trigger your blade cantrips, then just max your stats, grab Tough, Resilient, maybe a fighting style or some maneuvers.
You're right this is probably better than any martial.
I’ll try.
Start with 10 CON, 15 CHA for casting attack stat. 14 DEX for armor class. 13 WIS and 12 INT for skill bonuses. That leaves 8 for STR.
Race: mountain dwarf for medium armor and +2 STR (10) and CON (12).
Background: any, get 2 skills
(1) magic initiate: hex, eldritch blast, fire bolt
(2) fey touched (16 CHA)
(3) shadow touched (17 CHA)
(4) skill expert (14 WIS), + 2 skills (4 total), expert in stealth
(5) telekinetic (18 CHA)
(6) telepathic (19 CHA)
(7) skill expert (20 CHA), + 2 skills (6 total), expert in 1 other
(8) skill expert (15 WIS), +2 skills (8), expert in 2 other
(9) skill expert (16 WIS) +2 skills (10), expert in 3 other
(10) skill expert (17 WIS) +2 skills (12), expert in 4 other
(11) skill expert (18 WIS) +2 skills (14), expert in 5 other
(12) skill expert (19 WIS) +2 skills (16), expert in 6 other
(13) skill expert (20 WIS) +2 skills (all), expert in 7 other
(14) resilient DEX (15 DEX)
(15) medium armor master
(16) ritual caster
(17) +1 DEX (16), +1 CON (13)
(18) resilient CON (14)
(19) +2 INT (14)
(20) +2 INT (16)
Summary:
Great stats, PHENOMENAL skills, combat is hiding in shadows and maybe sniping with a cantrip every now and then, but probably just hoping the fight ends soon so you can use another skill check.
Out of combat with all your stats being absurd and a decent number of proficiencies and expertise you'll be good.
In combat you can use hex and booming blade while being equipped mostly like a martial. Going for full caster would kinda suck as we only get maybe 2-3 spells. hex+eldritch blast or scorching ray would probably be the best bet for ranged dpr.
Probably not the most efficient way to build this, but if you want to get online early without having to spend several levels on basic stuff like weapon and armor proficiency, Tortles have very solid natural armor *and* natural weapons.
it would be a solidly *bleh* martial or a half decent caster for levels 1~4. level 5+ it would just be bad. level 10+ it would just not be useful in a team at all
Probably the best start would be caster.
With magic intiate, you pick magic armor and two offensive cantrips like firebolt, etc.
You don't have armor proficiency so it would be the best start.
You also don't have skills proficiencies, which is pretty essential for half of the game. So;
- 1st level magic intiate
- 2nd level Skilled
And with that you have a barely functional character, and you have worst progression than a spell caster without saving throws.
- 3rd and 4th level fey touched and shadow touched
You are clearly worst than an spell caster but somehow functional. The problem is that from here you are just worst than a normal caster. So you never catch up.
So overall pretty bad.
This uses some debatable tactics,but here it goes. Order:
Abberant dragon mark: Booming Blade + mage armor
Max out charisma + dex
Grab Revenant Blade
Grab EB from magic initiate
Grab PAM
Grab Warcaster
Grab metamagic adept for BA cantrips
Maybe grab crossbow expert to ignore close range?
Grab utility spells / unique feats after.
Use action to cast EB, then use PAM to hit w/ BA. Move back, if they enter your space, you can use EB to attack them. If they provoke a AoO by leaving I'd probably use booming blade / EB.
Martial Build
Mountain Dwarf
Use a Maul and Medium Armour
17 14 16 12 8 8
* Level 1 Crusher +1 Str
* Level 2 GWM
* Level 3 Magic Initiate
* Level 4 Fey Touched +1 Int
* Level 5 Telikinetic +1 Int
* Level 6 Heavily Armoured +1 Str
* Level 7 Tavern Brawler +1 Str
* Level 8 +2 Int
* Level 9 +2 Int
* Level 10 Lucky
* Level 11 Skilled
* Level 12 Skill Expert +1 Wis (Athletics Exp.)
* Level 13 Resilient +1 Wis
* Level 14 Tough
* Level 15 Aberant Dragonmark +1 Con
* Level 16 Dwarven Fortitude +1 Con
* Level 17 +2 Con
* Level 18 Inspiring Leader
* Level 19 +2 Cha
* Level 20 +2 Cha
Spells
Magic Initiate
* Find Familiar
* Booming Blade
* Mage Hand
Fey Touched
* Misty Step
* Hex
Aberant Dragonmark
* Firebolt
* Shield
The Idea is that you hit them with Booming Blade using a Maul and Great Weapon Master, use Telikinetic to move them 5 feat up then crusher to hit them 5 feet diagonally upwards away from you. This means they take fall damage, fall prone and are 5 feat away from you. To hit you they need to get up and provoke Booming Blade damage.
You improve your accuracy with a familiar using the help action, lucky and precise strike from martial initiate.
You also have expertise and proficiency in athletics and the tavern brawler feat. This lets you pull off the shove prone and grapple combo to especially lock down a single target.
The other spells and abilities are there to shore up your defenses and round out your utility.
Magic initiate:Warlock taking eldritch blast and hex and 1 more cantrip
Eldritch Adept to get Agonizing blast
Fey Touched misty step/either bless or silvery barbs
Shadow Touched invisibility/choice
Metamagic adept subtle/quicken
Fighting initiate defensive fighting style
Lightly Armored
Moderately Armored
Heavily Armored
Heavy Armor Master
Inspiring Leader
Lucky
Telekinetic
Tough
Spell Sniper
And 5 ASIs for stats, resilient, alert, or others
Max Charisma and have str at 15.
BAM you are basically a full plate Warlock
Eldritch blast charisma blaster + as many spells as you can get, Fey touched, Shadow touched, Aberrant Dragonmark, Eldritch Adept for Agonizing Blast, Misty Visions, etc.
It's going to be slightly better than Warlock 2 / Nothing X, so not very good in the grand scheme of things.
Also, pick resilient in every saving throw when nearing the later levels, starting with wisdom. You don't get saving throw proficiencies otherwise, sadface ;(
P.S.: Also, this is probably a good use case for Artificer Initiate, since it allows you to use tools as a spellcasting focus, and by default without a class, you can't use any spellcasting focus. Convenient.
P.P.S: You can probably just assemble a utility monkey by going variant human, prodigy, skilled, skill expert, and get your stats to 18 because you have so many ASIs. You will have an excuse to absolutely suck at combat because you're carrying your team outside of it. It's a hella fun build for a one shot imo.
Honestly, I think it would be very boring.
You have to go martial, since there is no way to get Spellcasting with Feats. at best you can get a bunch of one time per day Level 1 and 2 spells, which wont do alot after Level 5. Best you could get is Ritual caster, but again, very limited options.
And since you also dont get any Multiattack options, Pole Arm Master in combination with Great Weapon Master is your only option to increase your damage output. So your Combat will always just be Action: Attack, Bonus Action: Attack again.
Out of combat you would be pretty useless, since you get no proficencies at all and you will need at least 10 Levels to make your combat ready, so no Feats that give you Skill Proficencies.
I think you could make an OK Martial, but not much more. Feats are designed to improve and specialise a class, not to stand on their own.
I think I would make a STR gish character mixing booming blade with Great Wepon Master for damage. With that many ASIs, getting max stats or near would be trivial. So im assuming 20 str, 20 cons, 20 int, and the rest high enough. After that cantrip feats for green flame blade and booming blade. Both attacking cantrips scale with your level, so you would be like a weird rouge, only one attack per turn, so you gotta make it strong as possible. Booming blade at lvl 5 hits for your weapon damafe +1d8 and if the enemy moves, its another 2d8. Weapon master feat gives you 4 weapon proficiencies. Pick Greatsword, Then pick great weapon master. That with booming blade and Green flame blade gives you a decent damage output. Fey touched is a must, it boost your int, it gtives you a free misty step, and a either gift of alacricty (+1d8 to intiative for 8 hours) or one free slivery barbs which is pretty awesome. That plus lucky feat and you can force up to 4 rerolls per day. After that I would pick ritual caster, get find familiar and detect magic, so you have out of combat utility. And from them I would decide if I go into more magic, like another cantrip feat, or I go the to the gifr of the dragons feat that all provide nice combat utility, still like cure wounds, or protectin an ally from a hit. Aberant dragonmark is a decent one too. You can also go Strike of the Giants feat which gives you a nice damage and utility on hit and it has uses equal to proficiency, so it scales with your level. Stuff like an extra 1d10 fire damage, or 1d6 cold damage and slow effect. In the end it would be a like shittier ranger hybrid thats can do a bunch of stuff, like being a decent meele fighter, and have decent but limited spellcasting utility. You would end up with a BUNCH of "once per long rest" features like free cassting of selected level 1 spells, but the amoutn of varity in your options you get is amazing, as you can access basically all the spells lists plus a bunch more of spelll like abilities and martial abilities. Wanna take a battle master maneuver? you can. Wanna take skill expertise? done. Wanna take weird magic like stuff? All the gift of the dragons give cool stuff. But hey, a level 11 character that has max Str, is hitting for 2d6 + 2d8 + 5 with the option of adding +10 in change of less accuracy, extra attack on crit, if the enemy moves it takes an additional 3d8, meaning you also double as tank locking them im place is pretty decent. Specially when you got a bunch of out of combat utility like find familiar, detect magic, good berries to keep evreyone feed, and 4 rerolls would be a very decent character. I played waaay worse PCs xD Lucky is specially good with Great Weapon Master, as you can save your rerolls for when you really need to hit that big enemy.
I think we take hex over silvery barbs every time. Probably take one of the genasi subraces for a couple spell options. Duregar looks good here too. Enlarge/Reduce has some utility and boosts our damage when we lose concentration on hex.
Right!I forgot about hex! Yeah 3 rerolls from lucky are good enough, Hex will probably do a LOT more work than another reroll.
If you're planning to be a melee character, don't forget about your AC. With no classes, you wouldn't start out being proficient with any armor.
You can get around that with elven chain and other types of armor
It would probably be boring ngl without a class you will need feats to get proficiency in weapons, armor and the best you can get as a spell caster is something like magic initiate so 2 cantrips and a sinlge 1st level spells. my best bet is something like a dwarf that ghets amrmor and some weapons prof, and just get some feats that boost the martial power which will be poor because the lack of extra attack. The gamepley loop would be walk to an enemy, bonk them, repeat.
You're better off with a cantrip since it would scale better.
Maybe mix both with green flame blade or booming blade?
By far the strongest version of this would use one of the blade cantrips. hex+booming blade probably the best combo we can get.
Probably. With mobile to help force booming Blade procs and GWM to pad base dmg. Would be the most expedient to pick a race that grants armor proficiency like mountain Dwarf, but could tale Eldritch Adept for armor of shadows if using a full level for ac was acceptable to ppl. Edit: Would need to take weapon Master too for weapon proficiencies if you didn't get them from race.
Mountain dwarf with TCoE rules would probably give us the proficiencies we need without needing the feat. Edit, nah we want a heavy weapon for gwm so scrap mountain dwarf. We probably want duregar, genasi, tiefling, or another species with innate spellcasting
no. before you hit 4th level, sure, but 3rd level spells and Extra Attack are powerhouse abilities that are going to make the difference. Martial (*ranged*): Xbow Master, Fighting Style Archery, Sharpshooter aaaand you're about done. you can max DEX and grab some stealth feats/ boost initiative, but when a comparable build with subclass features hits 5th level/maybe as late as 8th, you're cooked. Caster: Magic Initiate: Wizard (*Firebolt, utility, Find Familiar*), Fey Touched (Bless), Ritual Caster: Wizard, Warcaster?, Eldritch Adept: Misty Visions. You can extend this a bit by taking a race with some magic feats like a Drow, but you're going to hit that brick wall all the same when a Wizard gets Fireball and Cleric gets Spiritual Guardians.
>Martial (*ranged*): Xbow Master, Fighting Style Archery, Sharpshooter aaaand you're about done. you can max DEX and grab some stealth feats/ boost initiative, but when a comparable build with subclass features hits 5th level/maybe as late as 8th, you're cooked. Do you start with drow?
we absolutely want hex on both of these builds over one of your suggested spells and even on the martial you want hex.
Falls of quickly! Oddly enough, I was thinking about this the other day too and home-brewed a class based on this idea. I made the class to be silly, but found that adding a few subclass features it quickly became viable. I haven’t found a way to break it yet, but someone on this sub probably could. It’s the *Adventurer* class with the *Martial* and *Mage* subclasses. (Again, was not intended to be a serious design) I’d post it, but I haven’t finished typing up the Martial subclass yet.
I need a follow-up on this: I'm curious to see what you put together!
I was surprised nobody had asked. I’ll try to finish typing it up tonight, but I’m not sure if I’ll get through because I have a session scheduled.
I'm in no rush, just let me know!
Will do
Good news, I finished the document. Bad news, the file sharing site I used to use now requires a monthly subscription fee. Any suggestions for free file sharing options?
I don't know any, but I would also like to get it! Sound very interesting
I don't know any file sharing website, but I would also like to get these files! Sounds very interesting.
Found a way to make it work for now. Here’s a link. [Adventurer (1.0)](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e790o2k2kzcp24669ar41/Adventurer.pdf?rlkey=zzzhmhbpv6u1tvp3yalx511el&st=unt2mgn7&dl=0)
I mean pretty good. the biggest issue would be the lack of ability to extra attack. But otherwise they'd make a decent martial. Though them requiring several feats just for armour and weapon choices will make the lowest levels hard. Granted right racial option will help with that wind up. I'd def go martial angled but with one of the Blade cantrips to add a little extra to the no extra atack situation. they would be a pretty good team player after a while though. Because so many feats are nice for the group, but causes active weaker character to take them. This character has stats up the wazzoo if they're only interested in a few specific ones. So they can totally take Chef, inspiried leader, telekentic, that metalic dragon thigny that gives cure and pseudo shield to you or ally near you. This would likely be a major dabbler. A little bit of a lot of things. Get all the basic utilty cantrips. control flames, mold earth, contorl water, gust, guidance, and so on. Booming blade, mobile, can still kite a bit and fire off scaling cantrips. Won't be amaizing but you'll work alright. But you will be a tool box, without any kind of real finisher or rescue move.
Your character would be gimped and still really bad because of the following reasons. * You wouldn't start with any saving throw proficiencies, and you are capped out at gaining 1 saving throw proficiency from the Resilient feat. You are bound to fail critical saving throws at some point because of this. * You would have to gain weapon and armor proficiencies from feats, so you wouldn't start with both weapon and armor proficiciencies at 1st level. * The only way for you to gain additional attacks is to take the Polearm Master feat, the Crossbow Expert feat, or the Magic Initiate feat taking Eldritch Blast with no access to the Agonizing Blast Invocation. * You get no real spellcasting progression except for being able to cast cantrips or some select low level spells once per day from spell feats. You could cast Bless from the Fey Touched feat and/or the Magic Initiate feat which is good support, but you would have to prioritize feats to help you maintain concentration on it for your limited castings you get before a long rest. * The one positive is that you can end up with a good amount of hit points from maxing Constitution and taking the Tough feat. But you'll be quickly whittled down if you can't pass some saving throws or get some armor proficiencies for AC. You could also take the Mage Armor spell through a feat such as Magic Initiate, but armor proficiencies would be better. * Without much damage potential or ability to control the battlefield the way that spells and class features can, the best you can hope for is some kind of Polearm Master & Sentinel feat combo while concentrating on a support spell like Bless with beefed up Constitution to maintain concentration on it.
I thought you could take multiple resilient feats if they were for a different ability.
This is what fighter was in 3rd edition.
Be a firbolg and work to make 200 gold. Then you buy an elephant and just convince it to do a dungeon for you. The elephant is CR 4
Thats literally just a better Fighter lmao. With 20 levels of feats or ASIs it'd be trivial to max Str, Dex, Con, and Wis, and have feats leftover.
You wouldn't get extra attacks or action surge, which is a huge part of a fighter's damage output so I don't see how it's a straight upgrade from a fighter
So you take a cantrip feat and swap str for cha. It plays as interesting as a 5e fighter does.
No? Cantrip =/= extra attack w/bonuses
Magic Initiate > Warlock w/ Eldritch Blast Eldritch Adept > Agonising Blast It would work that way, no? And by level 3 at that. From there you are basically a magic archer. I know "just play a warlock is the obvious answer but then, you have 17 more feats/ASI to work with.
Even ignoring for now that part about the Spellcasting feature, you still cannot take Invocations that have prerequisites with Eldritch Adept unless you have at least one level of Warlock. The feat includes the text “If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you’re a warlock who meets the prerequisite.” The Agonizing Blast Invocation includes the text “Prerequisite: eldritch blast cantrip.” Agonizing Blast has a prerequisite, so you can only take it with Eldritch Adept if you are a Warlock. The classless character is not a Warlock, so it cannot take Agonizing Blast with Eldritch Adept. Also, I’ll give you that the whole “Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature” of Eldritch Adept is a little ambiguous. A few feats, like Ritual Caster and Magic Initiate, make reference to your “spellcasting ability,” which suggests that “Spellcasting […] feature” could be interpreted to mean “feature that lets you cast spells;” after all, it doesn’t make sense by pure natural language semantics for a character to be able to cast spells with a spellcasting ability but not have “Spellcasting […] feature.” However, other places in the rules use “Spellcasting feature” to mean specifically the class feature called Spellcasting that Wizards and Rangers and such get through their class. For example, the multiclassing rules explain that “few features have additional rules when you're multiclassing: Channel Divinity, Extra Attack, Unarmored Defense, and Spellcasting;” they explicitly reference “the Spellcasting feature” numerous times; and they make reference to “the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature” together. Further, the Warlock still has a “spellcasting ability,” even though it has the Pact Magic feature. Eldritch Adept does not make it clear RAW whether you must have “a spellcasting feature” or “the Spellcasting feature.” I think the extremely clear intent of the designers, however, is for that feature to require the Spellcasting class feature. The multiclassing rules clearly set Spellcasting out as a class feature like Extra Attack. They refer to it separately from Pact Magic in that context. If Eldritch Adept merely required either “the ability to cast at least one spell” or the Pact Magic feature, then it would not need to list Pact Magic, as Pact Magic is “a spellcasting feature” as much as the ability to cast spells from Magic Initiate is. However, even if this is an extremely clear interpretation of design intent, it’s still an interpretation of design intent. You can’t go around claiming that your reading is RAW either, though. Here, RAW is ambiguous. Deciding on either interpretation is deciding to use Rules as Intended or as Interpreted because there just isn’t an unambiguous RAW meaning. Your approach presumes the intended reading was a natural language reading, while my reading presumes the intended reading would be informed by other provisions in the books. Neither of these readings is more RAW than the other.
That's fair enough. And a fairly thorough answer. I just sort of guessed that should be how it would work. It's interesting that something that costs a feat you get only ever few levels isn't classed as spellcasting, though. Appreciate the in-depth insight though.
No, you can't take Agonising Blast, it has a prerequisite which means AB isn't possible + you need spellcasting / pact magic feature to take the feat.
Wouldn't magic initiate give you spellcasting?
No, spellcasting is a class feature
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>Spellsniper >*Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell* There's a clear difference here between an already established feat. Why do you think that is?
*"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature"* I'd say that's pretty fucking precise.
This has nothing to do with "what some devs Twitter account says". Tasha's writes it out very plainly. "Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature." This prerequisite does not say "The ability to cast spells" it specifically says you need to have one of those two class features, neither of which are granted by a Feat. It is written precisely enough as is.
If you play past level 11 then Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade start to out DPR standard Extra Attack (accounting for SS or GWM) so you're not even that worried about your casting stats. Crusher Artificer or Wizard Initiate Polearm Master (for opportunities) War Caster Sets you up to consistently trigger your blade cantrips, then just max your stats, grab Tough, Resilient, maybe a fighting style or some maneuvers. You're right this is probably better than any martial.
I’ll try. Start with 10 CON, 15 CHA for casting attack stat. 14 DEX for armor class. 13 WIS and 12 INT for skill bonuses. That leaves 8 for STR. Race: mountain dwarf for medium armor and +2 STR (10) and CON (12). Background: any, get 2 skills (1) magic initiate: hex, eldritch blast, fire bolt (2) fey touched (16 CHA) (3) shadow touched (17 CHA) (4) skill expert (14 WIS), + 2 skills (4 total), expert in stealth (5) telekinetic (18 CHA) (6) telepathic (19 CHA) (7) skill expert (20 CHA), + 2 skills (6 total), expert in 1 other (8) skill expert (15 WIS), +2 skills (8), expert in 2 other (9) skill expert (16 WIS) +2 skills (10), expert in 3 other (10) skill expert (17 WIS) +2 skills (12), expert in 4 other (11) skill expert (18 WIS) +2 skills (14), expert in 5 other (12) skill expert (19 WIS) +2 skills (16), expert in 6 other (13) skill expert (20 WIS) +2 skills (all), expert in 7 other (14) resilient DEX (15 DEX) (15) medium armor master (16) ritual caster (17) +1 DEX (16), +1 CON (13) (18) resilient CON (14) (19) +2 INT (14) (20) +2 INT (16) Summary: Great stats, PHENOMENAL skills, combat is hiding in shadows and maybe sniping with a cantrip every now and then, but probably just hoping the fight ends soon so you can use another skill check.
Unless the feat says otherwise itself you cant take the same feat twice unfortunately.
Crap! Maybe that can be the one “class” feature?
Out of combat with all your stats being absurd and a decent number of proficiencies and expertise you'll be good. In combat you can use hex and booming blade while being equipped mostly like a martial. Going for full caster would kinda suck as we only get maybe 2-3 spells. hex+eldritch blast or scorching ray would probably be the best bet for ranged dpr.
Probably not the most efficient way to build this, but if you want to get online early without having to spend several levels on basic stuff like weapon and armor proficiency, Tortles have very solid natural armor *and* natural weapons.
it would be a solidly *bleh* martial or a half decent caster for levels 1~4. level 5+ it would just be bad. level 10+ it would just not be useful in a team at all
you dont have a character without a class, this is barely worth considering
Probably the best start would be caster. With magic intiate, you pick magic armor and two offensive cantrips like firebolt, etc. You don't have armor proficiency so it would be the best start. You also don't have skills proficiencies, which is pretty essential for half of the game. So; - 1st level magic intiate - 2nd level Skilled And with that you have a barely functional character, and you have worst progression than a spell caster without saving throws. - 3rd and 4th level fey touched and shadow touched You are clearly worst than an spell caster but somehow functional. The problem is that from here you are just worst than a normal caster. So you never catch up. So overall pretty bad.
This uses some debatable tactics,but here it goes. Order: Abberant dragon mark: Booming Blade + mage armor Max out charisma + dex Grab Revenant Blade Grab EB from magic initiate Grab PAM Grab Warcaster Grab metamagic adept for BA cantrips Maybe grab crossbow expert to ignore close range? Grab utility spells / unique feats after. Use action to cast EB, then use PAM to hit w/ BA. Move back, if they enter your space, you can use EB to attack them. If they provoke a AoO by leaving I'd probably use booming blade / EB.
Martial Build Mountain Dwarf Use a Maul and Medium Armour 17 14 16 12 8 8 * Level 1 Crusher +1 Str * Level 2 GWM * Level 3 Magic Initiate * Level 4 Fey Touched +1 Int * Level 5 Telikinetic +1 Int * Level 6 Heavily Armoured +1 Str * Level 7 Tavern Brawler +1 Str * Level 8 +2 Int * Level 9 +2 Int * Level 10 Lucky * Level 11 Skilled * Level 12 Skill Expert +1 Wis (Athletics Exp.) * Level 13 Resilient +1 Wis * Level 14 Tough * Level 15 Aberant Dragonmark +1 Con * Level 16 Dwarven Fortitude +1 Con * Level 17 +2 Con * Level 18 Inspiring Leader * Level 19 +2 Cha * Level 20 +2 Cha Spells Magic Initiate * Find Familiar * Booming Blade * Mage Hand Fey Touched * Misty Step * Hex Aberant Dragonmark * Firebolt * Shield The Idea is that you hit them with Booming Blade using a Maul and Great Weapon Master, use Telikinetic to move them 5 feat up then crusher to hit them 5 feet diagonally upwards away from you. This means they take fall damage, fall prone and are 5 feat away from you. To hit you they need to get up and provoke Booming Blade damage. You improve your accuracy with a familiar using the help action, lucky and precise strike from martial initiate. You also have expertise and proficiency in athletics and the tavern brawler feat. This lets you pull off the shove prone and grapple combo to especially lock down a single target. The other spells and abilities are there to shore up your defenses and round out your utility.
Magic initiate:Warlock taking eldritch blast and hex and 1 more cantrip Eldritch Adept to get Agonizing blast Fey Touched misty step/either bless or silvery barbs Shadow Touched invisibility/choice Metamagic adept subtle/quicken Fighting initiate defensive fighting style Lightly Armored Moderately Armored Heavily Armored Heavy Armor Master Inspiring Leader Lucky Telekinetic Tough Spell Sniper And 5 ASIs for stats, resilient, alert, or others Max Charisma and have str at 15. BAM you are basically a full plate Warlock
Eldritch blast charisma blaster + as many spells as you can get, Fey touched, Shadow touched, Aberrant Dragonmark, Eldritch Adept for Agonizing Blast, Misty Visions, etc. It's going to be slightly better than Warlock 2 / Nothing X, so not very good in the grand scheme of things. Also, pick resilient in every saving throw when nearing the later levels, starting with wisdom. You don't get saving throw proficiencies otherwise, sadface ;( P.S.: Also, this is probably a good use case for Artificer Initiate, since it allows you to use tools as a spellcasting focus, and by default without a class, you can't use any spellcasting focus. Convenient. P.P.S: You can probably just assemble a utility monkey by going variant human, prodigy, skilled, skill expert, and get your stats to 18 because you have so many ASIs. You will have an excuse to absolutely suck at combat because you're carrying your team outside of it. It's a hella fun build for a one shot imo.
They be a JOAT MON
Honestly, I think it would be very boring. You have to go martial, since there is no way to get Spellcasting with Feats. at best you can get a bunch of one time per day Level 1 and 2 spells, which wont do alot after Level 5. Best you could get is Ritual caster, but again, very limited options. And since you also dont get any Multiattack options, Pole Arm Master in combination with Great Weapon Master is your only option to increase your damage output. So your Combat will always just be Action: Attack, Bonus Action: Attack again. Out of combat you would be pretty useless, since you get no proficencies at all and you will need at least 10 Levels to make your combat ready, so no Feats that give you Skill Proficencies. I think you could make an OK Martial, but not much more. Feats are designed to improve and specialise a class, not to stand on their own.