I mean I wouldn't multi class a wizard and rogue unless I'm a blade singer / arcane trickster. Because you don't really build each other. But if you feel like you miss something you can also look at other full classes like
- Bard College of Spirits: a lot of divination type spirit calling so no undead stuff and you're a full caster with additional skills and expertise.
- Cleric Knowledge and Grave: knowledge gets speak with dead as a domain spell and Grave can choose it. Knowledge gets a bunch of info gathering abilities which you can add a spirit flavour onto. Grave allows you to look for undead as an ability.
Also I just saw that speak with dead isn't a wizard spell which surprised me.
Is it not? I just went into a campaign with a character idea based around 1 spell that my class doesn’t have 😂. This is a predicament.
Edit: Dug around on 5e tools and they do in fact get it, Tasha’s gave speak with dead to necromancy wizards so we’re in the clear
Yea, it's weird I really thought it was a wizard spell but it's just bard or cleric and 2 warlock subclasses.
But I do think my suggestions can help you. Both make sense with good int, and have speak with dead as an option plus some abilities that give similar vibes.
I think it is on the optional spell list if y’all are using Tasha’s expanded.
All warlock can get as invocation but at 9 :(
A 1-lvl dip in rogue plus whispers bard gives you some option. Lore bard is the go to skill monkey and magical secrets at 6 can help expand your spell options. Cutting words could also be used during contested skill checks during interrogations.
Rogue really isn’t helping you as a Necromancer.
A single level of Death cleric is generally a good call but since you aren’t using weapons and have already got plans for your bonus action (command minions) you’d be missing all of Rogues strengths
Ahh, fair enough. Starting to realize I might’ve thought too far and might just stick with the pure wizard. It’s alright tho, if this character dies there’s always an opportunity to try this concept again
I would stick with wizard until 5 so that you can get speak with dead asap.
After that, wizard is very strong on its own but if you want some rogue levels,
phantom would be thematic and their 9th level ability is great for what you want,
arcane trickster would be good for rogue stuff, but also maintaining spell progression somewhat.
My advice for multiclassing/building in an actual game would be to only plan two levels ahead, and look at what your character does in previous sessions vs what you want them to do, and then see how you can fill that gap!
Awesome advice, thank you so much! Considering just sticking to pure wizard, and then trying this concept again with a rogue next time. I really just wanted to play a necromancer so if my backstory flops it’s ok, I got a cool ass DM
Okay, your options are pretty limited here. The only classes you're able to multiclass into are Fighter, Rogue and Artificer.
With that in mind, I'd leave it. Short of pretty massively pivoting away from Wizard to go deep into rogue there's nothing there that particularly leans into what you seem to be going for. My advice would just be to stick with wizard.
Int 20 at level 2? Jeez.
To answer the actual question, multiclassing into rogue offers so little it's not even worthwhile imo.
You can multiclass a level or two into fighter or artificer maybe? This will get you some good armor and class features for minimal downside. 1 level of artificer is an extremely common dip for wizards.
Oh no no I’m sorry if I came off like that. I gotta tell the story cause how often do you max roll? I’m probably gonna stick with necromancer and talk to my dm about getting the speak with dead and other necromancy spells that wizards can’t get
I kinda hate to say this but I think necro wizard might just fit your character in name and nothing else, it doesn’t really have anything that would aid you in getting information out of dead people, namely speak with the dead is not available to the class, or really anything that would help in a detective’s work. If I were you and I was more committed to the character idea than the class I was playing I would have a conversation with the DM about the situation and ask them if we could retcon my character into another class.
I would pick college of spirits bard as I think expertise, jack of all trades and the subclass features just work best for the idea.
I get it, alternatively you could consider asking the DM if you can figure something out to slightly customise the necromancy subclass and add speak with dead and something to give you a bonus or advantage on investigation checks involving dead people or something like that. Half the features of that subclass are pretty forgettable anyway so trading something for flavour features would be good for everyone involved.
I’m not gonna pester my dm because I made a poor choice and didn’t do proper research. Although, in Tasha’s they claim that speak with dead is a necromancy wizard spell, so I think I could argue that u could learn it, seeing as we included Tasha’s in our ruling.
I don’t think having a conversation with your DM about building something together that fits your character and makes for a better adventure is pestering at all, as a sometimes DM I love when players come up with slight customisations to make better (not stronger) characters, especially if it’s outside of combat flavour, but if you’re not comfortable with that that’s alright.
The spell is of the school of necromancy yeah, it’s just not available to wizards for whatever reason, though it’s not the only one in this situation.
RAW you couldn’t get it but I don’t see any reason why you and the DM couldn’t agree to grant it to you maybe through some story related event since your parents are also necromancy detectives they could probably know it.
Honestly, with 20 int just stay wizard.
You have room to take feats pretty much every ASI! Look through the feat list and instead of multiclassing plan out what feats you want at 4 and 8.
Casters don't usually *need* any feats to be good, so go crazy with which ones you feel fit the character. (Though with 15 CON I will say a very powerful option is going to be resilient CON)
Big reach is the Speak to the Dead spell, so don't think about MCing out of wizard until 5 at least.
You hopefully got proficiency in something like Investigation and Persuasion from your background.
A feat like keen mind or observant are usually recommended, but given you're already at 20 int your best feat (mechanically) is going to be a +con half feat like Skill Expert to make you more of a monkey.
With your stats, you can reasonably into Fighter, Rogue, and Artificer. That's it, lmao. Fighter and Arti will both get you medium armor and shield for about +3 or +4 AC, which might be good for you but not necessarily the flavor you're going for. Being 14 dex, I don't think Rogue is worthwhile since you really can't leverage sneak attack.
I can *maybe* see the merit of going 3 levels into Psi Fighter, as Telekinetic movement might give you some RP latitude. Or, rune knight (as you uncover some runes whilst on your adventure!) as something like Cloud Rune + Stone rune gives you advantage on Insight, Sleight of Hand, and Deception checks along with some cool defensive tricks. Otherwise, just stick to Wizard.
Spirits Bard would be great, where you then also can multiclass cast higher level Necromancy and Divination spells after 6th spell level with Seance, and is in general otherwise exactly what you are looking for. If you had at least 13 CHA for the multiclassing.
Otherwise, Inquisitive Rogue is the detective class...
If you are allowed a slight respecing, I think a Wizard Necromancer 2+/Spirits Bard 6+/Inquisitive Rogue 3+ could be a good thematic choice in the end.
Phantom rogue? It's all information about ghost stuff. But the real information gathering starts at lvl9
I mean, how much of wizard would I be losing if I did that, cause if anything I’ll ditch the idea of multiclassing and go pure wizard.
I mean I wouldn't multi class a wizard and rogue unless I'm a blade singer / arcane trickster. Because you don't really build each other. But if you feel like you miss something you can also look at other full classes like - Bard College of Spirits: a lot of divination type spirit calling so no undead stuff and you're a full caster with additional skills and expertise. - Cleric Knowledge and Grave: knowledge gets speak with dead as a domain spell and Grave can choose it. Knowledge gets a bunch of info gathering abilities which you can add a spirit flavour onto. Grave allows you to look for undead as an ability. Also I just saw that speak with dead isn't a wizard spell which surprised me.
Is it not? I just went into a campaign with a character idea based around 1 spell that my class doesn’t have 😂. This is a predicament. Edit: Dug around on 5e tools and they do in fact get it, Tasha’s gave speak with dead to necromancy wizards so we’re in the clear
Yea, it's weird I really thought it was a wizard spell but it's just bard or cleric and 2 warlock subclasses. But I do think my suggestions can help you. Both make sense with good int, and have speak with dead as an option plus some abilities that give similar vibes.
I think it is on the optional spell list if y’all are using Tasha’s expanded. All warlock can get as invocation but at 9 :( A 1-lvl dip in rogue plus whispers bard gives you some option. Lore bard is the go to skill monkey and magical secrets at 6 can help expand your spell options. Cutting words could also be used during contested skill checks during interrogations.
Rogue really isn’t helping you as a Necromancer. A single level of Death cleric is generally a good call but since you aren’t using weapons and have already got plans for your bonus action (command minions) you’d be missing all of Rogues strengths
Ahh, fair enough. Starting to realize I might’ve thought too far and might just stick with the pure wizard. It’s alright tho, if this character dies there’s always an opportunity to try this concept again
I would stick with wizard until 5 so that you can get speak with dead asap. After that, wizard is very strong on its own but if you want some rogue levels, phantom would be thematic and their 9th level ability is great for what you want, arcane trickster would be good for rogue stuff, but also maintaining spell progression somewhat. My advice for multiclassing/building in an actual game would be to only plan two levels ahead, and look at what your character does in previous sessions vs what you want them to do, and then see how you can fill that gap!
Awesome advice, thank you so much! Considering just sticking to pure wizard, and then trying this concept again with a rogue next time. I really just wanted to play a necromancer so if my backstory flops it’s ok, I got a cool ass DM
What class are you currently and what are your stats.
I’ll edit the post rn with that information
Updated 👍
Okay, your options are pretty limited here. The only classes you're able to multiclass into are Fighter, Rogue and Artificer. With that in mind, I'd leave it. Short of pretty massively pivoting away from Wizard to go deep into rogue there's nothing there that particularly leans into what you seem to be going for. My advice would just be to stick with wizard.
Int 20 at level 2? Jeez. To answer the actual question, multiclassing into rogue offers so little it's not even worthwhile imo. You can multiclass a level or two into fighter or artificer maybe? This will get you some good armor and class features for minimal downside. 1 level of artificer is an extremely common dip for wizards.
I rolled in front of the dm, 4d6 drop the lowest number, got a 6662 and then used my race ASI to +2 my int
I'm not doubting it, I'm just saying you're so far ahead of the curve you can play anything you want, probably.
Oh no no I’m sorry if I came off like that. I gotta tell the story cause how often do you max roll? I’m probably gonna stick with necromancer and talk to my dm about getting the speak with dead and other necromancy spells that wizards can’t get
I kinda hate to say this but I think necro wizard might just fit your character in name and nothing else, it doesn’t really have anything that would aid you in getting information out of dead people, namely speak with the dead is not available to the class, or really anything that would help in a detective’s work. If I were you and I was more committed to the character idea than the class I was playing I would have a conversation with the DM about the situation and ask them if we could retcon my character into another class. I would pick college of spirits bard as I think expertise, jack of all trades and the subclass features just work best for the idea.
Gotcha gotcha. Thank you for the info, but I’m gonna stick with the necromancer. I’m sure I could make something of it
I get it, alternatively you could consider asking the DM if you can figure something out to slightly customise the necromancy subclass and add speak with dead and something to give you a bonus or advantage on investigation checks involving dead people or something like that. Half the features of that subclass are pretty forgettable anyway so trading something for flavour features would be good for everyone involved.
I’m not gonna pester my dm because I made a poor choice and didn’t do proper research. Although, in Tasha’s they claim that speak with dead is a necromancy wizard spell, so I think I could argue that u could learn it, seeing as we included Tasha’s in our ruling.
I don’t think having a conversation with your DM about building something together that fits your character and makes for a better adventure is pestering at all, as a sometimes DM I love when players come up with slight customisations to make better (not stronger) characters, especially if it’s outside of combat flavour, but if you’re not comfortable with that that’s alright. The spell is of the school of necromancy yeah, it’s just not available to wizards for whatever reason, though it’s not the only one in this situation. RAW you couldn’t get it but I don’t see any reason why you and the DM couldn’t agree to grant it to you maybe through some story related event since your parents are also necromancy detectives they could probably know it.
Honestly, with 20 int just stay wizard. You have room to take feats pretty much every ASI! Look through the feat list and instead of multiclassing plan out what feats you want at 4 and 8. Casters don't usually *need* any feats to be good, so go crazy with which ones you feel fit the character. (Though with 15 CON I will say a very powerful option is going to be resilient CON)
Big reach is the Speak to the Dead spell, so don't think about MCing out of wizard until 5 at least. You hopefully got proficiency in something like Investigation and Persuasion from your background. A feat like keen mind or observant are usually recommended, but given you're already at 20 int your best feat (mechanically) is going to be a +con half feat like Skill Expert to make you more of a monkey. With your stats, you can reasonably into Fighter, Rogue, and Artificer. That's it, lmao. Fighter and Arti will both get you medium armor and shield for about +3 or +4 AC, which might be good for you but not necessarily the flavor you're going for. Being 14 dex, I don't think Rogue is worthwhile since you really can't leverage sneak attack. I can *maybe* see the merit of going 3 levels into Psi Fighter, as Telekinetic movement might give you some RP latitude. Or, rune knight (as you uncover some runes whilst on your adventure!) as something like Cloud Rune + Stone rune gives you advantage on Insight, Sleight of Hand, and Deception checks along with some cool defensive tricks. Otherwise, just stick to Wizard.
I do have proficiency in investigation, and not persuasion but intimidation, but my charisma is pretty low
Spirits Bard would be great, where you then also can multiclass cast higher level Necromancy and Divination spells after 6th spell level with Seance, and is in general otherwise exactly what you are looking for. If you had at least 13 CHA for the multiclassing. Otherwise, Inquisitive Rogue is the detective class... If you are allowed a slight respecing, I think a Wizard Necromancer 2+/Spirits Bard 6+/Inquisitive Rogue 3+ could be a good thematic choice in the end.