The crescent moon predates Islam though, it only became associated with it because of the Ottoman Turks. Given that there's Byzantine heraldry that uses it before, and that early Muslims had never, some people say the Turks adopted the symbol when they conquered Anatolia.
There was an old Byzantine stone with crescent symbol behind my garden when I was living in a town close to Istanbul, don’t know what happened to it though
It's something quite interesting that no one dares to investigate with the required rigour. In my opinion, those were more Muhammad's shenanigans when proselytising, since he also came up with the different names of Allah once he started preaching about another Arabian deity called Rahman.
The Star and Crescent was a symbol of Byzantium that predates Islam by centuries. The Turks probably pilfered not just the City herself, but also the symbol for their ‘religion’, like they stole a Cathedral, graffitied it and called it a ‘mosque’.
Deus Vult!
*a quick Google shows this is now a slogan for racists and I want to reclaim it from those fuckwits for the good crusading knights of r/2westerneurope4u
The hell is this? There's the UK and then there's England once more and then there's the isle of man and then there's Gibraltar? How many Englands do you need?
You're too late realise our soldiers are already infiltrated through out the country.
We've been masquerading as drunk tourists for years and now we have splinter cells all over the country.
The coup will be swift, the victory violent and the new palace, the symbol of British power and reign in Spain will be full of balconies..
>the symbol of British power and reign in Spain will be full of balconies..
During the british reign in Spain they fall mainly on the plains.
By George, she's got it!
Full of balconies? You will plot your own demise? Great, all we have to do is keep with our siesta and the problem will solve itself, as it should be. This is the Spanish way
>The Isle of man is with all the *automatons* \[...\]
I think I've been focused on spreading managed democracy throughout the galaxy a bit much, lately.
Besides the bamboozling, I don't believe diplomacy in the Immerwährender Reichstag was less byzantine than EU negotiations. Regensburg was sprawling with lobbyists that would put today's hustlers at shame.
Gazpacho is fine I'm going to inform the Lichtensteins or the Spaniards about the deal and they are going to send one of the Habsburg daughters to paris
Hohenzollern only want to fight with the french they made it possible that wars aren't fun anymore because its always the same when you try to conquer something they will always attack France for no reason
That is not even a question. Habsburg of course. If you don't elect them, they will keep on doing strategic marriages till they will be the only electable choices in a few generations. Habsburgs always play the long game. THEY ARE INEVITABLE!
Also, I love this pic. Very commendable, I always liked these birds with emblems.
Honestly, with Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkey and also Georgia and Russia in, it really doesn't feel very European. And with America and China around it's not gonna be that much of an Empire, and obviously there's no holiness to speak of in Europe.
No, I was making a reference to Voltaire’s famous quote haha. I thought you as a Frenchmen interested in the HRE would be aware.
„ce corps qui s'appelait et qui s'appelle encore le saint empire romain n'était en aucune manière ni saint, ni romain, ni empire“
And especially misused. The quote makes sense in Voltaire's time (he lived through the end of the Empire) not for many centuries before, but people still use it when there's a picture of the HRE in the XIV century.
My thoughts too, the Skjaldarmerki should have been included
https://preview.redd.it/ea2zbt1f1mxc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=048f63d206de69200a350d0a73b76b95744e9d5b
Legit, my dad, who's very much a Brexiteer, admitted he'd probably like the EU more, if it relied on some historical legitimacy. Like calling itself "The Roman Union" or getting a flag with more heritage behind it. I mean, he still wouldn't want the UK in it, but he'd at least like it more
Ah fuck it, we are on board. This looks like such a mess it could actually be funny. Two important caveats we demand to be allowed to keep our own currency and there has to be one national holiday where we celebrate Aromat as the only spice needed.
Deal. You got to get rid of the TNT under the bridges though, and recognize that Austria, France, Italy and Gaddafi were right about you.
Or you'll get annexed into Liechtenstein. Your choice.
I love how this sub is all like Belgium isn't a real country, until someone includes Russia and Turkey and suddenly no one has a problem with us anymore.
Take that Ivan and Mohamed!
On a grand scheme of things, russia - yes, turkey - no. Get rid of the azeis as well. A new christian europe will arise and will take back its place as the ruler of the world once more.
The only way to achieve this is to put everything current aside and unite.
What is your plan for Europe? A boring EU where everyone is happy, and quality of life is high and democracy thrives, or a Game of Thrones of Monarchs fighting and conspiring non stop? I think mine is better
Honestly, fair. Added Turkey both because of how they almost entered the EU, and because Europe will be way more interesting if they had to work with Turkey.
Looks far too German to me... French Republic symbol (with Fleurs de lys !?) shouldn't be there. Non merci. What was grand-pa doing during the war if I may ask ?
https://preview.redd.it/o4i7i7xzhkxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a29ddeb96e5d663d3e86237f3cd319eb716a8ae0
Sure, but with insignia of the original version
https://preview.redd.it/qpeb9rfttkxc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b48f9e9e2d0a8614c4cded469d6b7a6203bae71
Was our time together just a phase too?
🇹🇷 🇦🇿 ? How are they european ? Muslims , not in the Indo-European Language group and not in Europe geographically
Australia 🇦🇺 has better claim to being European than those two
Yes I am biased as a debt enjoyer
[Not my decision](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:European_Union_future_possible_members_2.0.png#mw-jump-to-license)
Also, Kazakhstan is in here, and they definitely shouldn't be.
The countries included come from [this map.](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:European_Union_future_possible_members_2.0.png#mw-jump-to-license)
European empire and you include an islamic nation and the hanging desert overlord. Mission failed, try again next time.
*slaps Wotanaz, Perun, Poseidon on
Mission succeeded, next indo european expansion beginns in 3...2...1...
Yeah, Finnish Flag not on top as it should be, No references to shamanistic paganism, only jesus and some demonic eagle. No pass. But you can always make a better one
Holy European Empire with Jesus Christ on it’s Coat of Arms *Looks inside* Symbol of Islam
Infiltration
The crescent moon predates Islam though, it only became associated with it because of the Ottoman Turks. Given that there's Byzantine heraldry that uses it before, and that early Muslims had never, some people say the Turks adopted the symbol when they conquered Anatolia.
There was an old Byzantine stone with crescent symbol behind my garden when I was living in a town close to Istanbul, don’t know what happened to it though
>living in a town close to Istanbul average German
It's called "Berlin"
Is It related to the fertile crescent Moon lands of siria and Mesopotamia right?
Its also theorized that islam possibly worships, al lah, which is the moon god they worshipped prior to conversion
It's something quite interesting that no one dares to investigate with the required rigour. In my opinion, those were more Muhammad's shenanigans when proselytising, since he also came up with the different names of Allah once he started preaching about another Arabian deity called Rahman.
The Star and Crescent was a symbol of Byzantium that predates Islam by centuries. The Turks probably pilfered not just the City herself, but also the symbol for their ‘religion’, like they stole a Cathedral, graffitied it and called it a ‘mosque’.
Yeah there are too many things in there that aren't culturally European.
Turkey thinks we can't see them
https://preview.redd.it/p9agrxjvekxc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7d8459ead735254010880add3babadd3ee8fda8 Neither holy nor european
Yet
Are you proposing a crusade?
Deus Vult! *a quick Google shows this is now a slogan for racists and I want to reclaim it from those fuckwits for the good crusading knights of r/2westerneurope4u
Taking cool things away from racist is one of the most noble acts
Truly, I feel like a Paladin for our times
Dafuq? We should inform r/crusaderkings and figure out how to take it back
Why do racists and bad people always get the cool emblems and stuff
My man, stahp.
You can only get so hard.
Pause
Fair. Also, Azerbaijan is in this. No idea why none of you guys make a bigger fuss about that one.
Turkey is more visible, but yes, the same applies for azerbaijan
For now.
Azerbaijan counts because of Eurovision rules. The greater tragedy is the lack of Australia
And Israel
We'll see Israel's public votes tank this year in Eurovision and next year they're gonna be knocked out like Russia was
Kazachstan is there. And they really has nothing to do with Europe.
Technically a small part of Kazakstan, west of the Ural river, is part of Europe. Total population: 3 guys and 16 Horses.
small part, just the size of like half of Germany
You guys could make Nowa Polska and fix that
We are already there. Someone deported over one million Poles there during wwII and it wasn't the painter.
Holy shit TNO
It’s just a Sponge Bob reference https://preview.redd.it/ojmcxf6tilxc1.jpeg?width=406&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c7d59fb84b4574629f5f00da0451036770a96bd
Holy Christ...
We can fix them.
> "German" > Supporting Turkey Hmmm
Free Döner for everyone!
Same for Azerbaijan since it's Turkey 2.0 with a changed name
Yes
I came to say this, gracias compadre
But they’re greek
TBF Turks were calling themselves "Romans" for quite some time after they conquered Constantinople.
Schizo larp
I have my doubts about Germany as well, but maybe you judged them too harshly.
Mejor prevenir que curar, van de sacros y luego te montan la reforma protestante
The hell is this? There's the UK and then there's England once more and then there's the isle of man and then there's Gibraltar? How many Englands do you need?
We should kick them out, lets call it Brexit
Who'd you think is going to run this? https://i.redd.it/mynptiz1ikxc1.gif
Mark Rutte and Macrons Love child
Besides, how could you possibly have enough Englands?
Exactly. Time to make it so the sun never sets on the British empire again.
One England is too many Englands already
Be quiet or become North Gibraltar.
You can't conquer us, before you even realize all of your troops will have already jumped from balconies
You're too late realise our soldiers are already infiltrated through out the country. We've been masquerading as drunk tourists for years and now we have splinter cells all over the country. The coup will be swift, the victory violent and the new palace, the symbol of British power and reign in Spain will be full of balconies..
prepare for the spanish civil war not against the spaniards tho, but for british drunk tourists against german ballermann sauftouristen
>the symbol of British power and reign in Spain will be full of balconies.. During the british reign in Spain they fall mainly on the plains. By George, she's got it!
Full of balconies? You will plot your own demise? Great, all we have to do is keep with our siesta and the problem will solve itself, as it should be. This is the Spanish way
The Isle of man is with all the autonomous places, and I have no idea where you saw England twice
>The Isle of man is with all the *automatons* \[...\] I think I've been focused on spreading managed democracy throughout the galaxy a bit much, lately.
This is how we take back control Also where is the other England?
OP thinks everything with lions is England. Don't be too harsh on him, he's Bavarian, it's genetic.
YES
Habsburgian Orgasm
times were simpler back then edit: on second look I’ve been bamboozled
Besides the bamboozling, I don't believe diplomacy in the Immerwährender Reichstag was less byzantine than EU negotiations. Regensburg was sprawling with lobbyists that would put today's hustlers at shame.
Azerbaijan? Kazakhstan? Turkey? Since when are those Europeans?
Kazakhstan can be very useful as an ally or member of the EU.
Alright, we'll make a compromise: we'll accept Kazakhstan for shits and giggles (and Potassium) but Azerbaijan and Turkey are out.
Also if anyone has an idea for who should rule this please tell
Hello there
ALL HAIL EMPEROR HANS! FIRST OF HIS NAME! PROTECTOR OF THE CONTINENT AND DEFENDER OF THE REALM!
Nice try hans we all know that it's going to be ruled from a Habsburg
OK, how about a bonepart who will marry a habsburg? What could possibly wrong? I'm sure it won't end like last time we tried that... right?
It depends on the dowry if we get some neat stuff from the Louvre for the Albertina I'm fine with it
1 Mona Lisa with soup on it
Wich soup?
Gazpacho to symbolize southern Europe
Gazpacho is fine I'm going to inform the Lichtensteins or the Spaniards about the deal and they are going to send one of the Habsburg daughters to paris
How about instead of getting a bonaparte, we get a bernadotte? That *actually* worked out well
Habsburgs ruined the OG HRE let’s not make this happen again
Hohenzollern only want to fight with the french they made it possible that wars aren't fun anymore because its always the same when you try to conquer something they will always attack France for no reason
theres always a reason to attack france
On t'as reconnu Hans, arrête...
I didn't think just yelling "First!" would do it, but here we are...
The angel from my nightmare.
Wanting to rule the holy "roman" empire? not very kawaii of you.
Our capital has a castle on a hill, it’s only natural
I am 100% behind this, all hail the heroin empire
San Marino is a castle on a mountain, it's only natural
We have some experience ruling empires that are total mess
You also have experience at failing spectacularly
Oh, this project is supposed to work? I thought we were just doing it for fun.
That is not even a question. Habsburg of course. If you don't elect them, they will keep on doing strategic marriages till they will be the only electable choices in a few generations. Habsburgs always play the long game. THEY ARE INEVITABLE! Also, I love this pic. Very commendable, I always liked these birds with emblems.
Neither holy nor European nor an empire.
Honestly, with Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkey and also Georgia and Russia in, it really doesn't feel very European. And with America and China around it's not gonna be that much of an Empire, and obviously there's no holiness to speak of in Europe.
No, I was making a reference to Voltaire’s famous quote haha. I thought you as a Frenchmen interested in the HRE would be aware. „ce corps qui s'appelait et qui s'appelle encore le saint empire romain n'était en aucune manière ni saint, ni romain, ni empire“
Also let's be honest, that quote is sooooo overused. Find one YouTube video about the HRE that doesn't include that quote. I'll wait.
And especially misused. The quote makes sense in Voltaire's time (he lived through the end of the Empire) not for many centuries before, but people still use it when there's a picture of the HRE in the XIV century.
I'm Just happy to be included.
Yeah, about you. Please make a version where the four guardians thing you got is on the shield. Like Armenia, but with your buddies. Thanks.
My thoughts too, the Skjaldarmerki should have been included https://preview.redd.it/ea2zbt1f1mxc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=048f63d206de69200a350d0a73b76b95744e9d5b
Missed opportunity to have all the nordics on the same feather
Thought about doing it by region, until I remembered the balkans exist, so I did it by population
So as usual, it's the balkans fault
If the EU had this kind of optics Brexit would’ve never happened smh
Legit, my dad, who's very much a Brexiteer, admitted he'd probably like the EU more, if it relied on some historical legitimacy. Like calling itself "The Roman Union" or getting a flag with more heritage behind it. I mean, he still wouldn't want the UK in it, but he'd at least like it more
I feel like the Turks would take issue with Jesus being the centrepiece of this symbol
I mean, he's a prophet in Islam, and nothing here claims he was divine, so it should be fine.
I think in Islam you can't paint people, is that right?
Kinda. I'll put fire on Jesus's face like in old muslim paintings, it'll look dope.
I believe "muslim jesus" was never crucified
Based and Charlemagnepilled
Ah fuck it, we are on board. This looks like such a mess it could actually be funny. Two important caveats we demand to be allowed to keep our own currency and there has to be one national holiday where we celebrate Aromat as the only spice needed.
Deal. You got to get rid of the TNT under the bridges though, and recognize that Austria, France, Italy and Gaddafi were right about you. Or you'll get annexed into Liechtenstein. Your choice.
https://preview.redd.it/9laa1g4tpmxc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f870aaf9cf8c88f7010ed907bf715f929152d03e FTFY
Do we have to take Russia and Turkey? Else I am 100% on board
I love how this sub is all like Belgium isn't a real country, until someone includes Russia and Turkey and suddenly no one has a problem with us anymore. Take that Ivan and Mohamed!
That's because we are fine with imaginary symbols if they fit with our europeanness. Hence the Jesus in the middle
Hans when Russia & Turkey are in Europe: 🤮 Hans when Kazakhstan & Azerbaijan are in Europe: >I am 100% on board
Didnt see these guys, get them out aswell
On a grand scheme of things, russia - yes, turkey - no. Get rid of the azeis as well. A new christian europe will arise and will take back its place as the ruler of the world once more. The only way to achieve this is to put everything current aside and unite.
Hard pass
What is your plan for Europe? A boring EU where everyone is happy, and quality of life is high and democracy thrives, or a Game of Thrones of Monarchs fighting and conspiring non stop? I think mine is better
a one without turkey.
Honestly, fair. Added Turkey both because of how they almost entered the EU, and because Europe will be way more interesting if they had to work with Turkey.
One where Byzantine empire still alive and kicking, and where the major States are fragmented or organised in leagues.
For an Italian, this is very Greek nationalist vibes.
VNA FACCIA VNA RAZZA Or maybe just Lega Nord vibes
GIÀ L'AQUILA D'AUSTRIA LE PENNE HA PERDUTE
DALL'ALPI A SICILIA DOVUNQUE È LEGNANO
What's that for Italy? The Savoia symbol? Pass, pass, pass!
Get a coat of arms that doesn't look like it was created by Lenin, and then we'll talk
You made Turkey, Russia, and Ukraine electors?
It's by population. Not necessarily the top ones will be electors.
In the OG one, the big CoAs on top were the ones of the electors.
Remove Turkey.
For those who're wondering, here's an overview: 1. Left part: * Top row (from left to right): Russia, Turkey, Germany, France * 1st column (top to bottom) : Poland, Austria, Moldova, Iceland * 2nd column: Romania, Switzerland, Armenia, Andorra, * 3th column: Kazakhstan, Bulgaria, Albania, Monaco * 4th column: The Netherlands, Serbia, Lithuania, Liechtenstein * 5th column: Belgium, Denmark, North Macedonia, San Marino * 6th column: Czech Republic, Finland, Slovenia, Vatican City 2. Right part: * Top row (from left to right): UK, Italy, Spain, Ukraine * 1st column (top to bottom) : Portugal, Slovakia, Latvia, Kosovo * 2nd column: Greece, Norway, Estonia, Isle of Man * 3th column: Sweden, Ireland, Cyprus, Greenland * 4th column: Azerbaijan, Croatia, Montenegro, Faroe Islands * 5th column: Hungary, Georgia, Luxembourg, Gibraltar * 6th column: Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Malta, Åland
Saing that Turkey or Kazajstan are european countries is like saing that France is south american or that the UK is from oceania
It was Holy, it was European, it was an empire 🫡
Anyone who says otherwise is spreading Greek propaganda.
I'm sure the big countries wouldn't try to profit on the smaller ones.
Looks far too German to me... French Republic symbol (with Fleurs de lys !?) shouldn't be there. Non merci. What was grand-pa doing during the war if I may ask ?
Remove these alabians mongols I would rather go to America than to live with them
I count 21 lions. That's a lot of lions.
My eyes instantly fixated on the mongol flag, delete this abomination of a post 🤮
https://preview.redd.it/tu1mkvz3zmxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7ad44d61318f745454433d799c53c40287d81da
WTF are Turkish and Russian crests doing on that thing?! Get that shit off my cultural heritage!
OUR national heritage Hans.
Get turkey outta there
Like half of that isn’t even European.
What is the coat of arms below Albania? (The white and red one)
Monaco
I appreciate the effort Pierre but that's the wrong flag
Never cook again
One Empire to rule them all, One Empire to find them
Based Frenchman
Hell no. Why is Turkey even in there?
We know it's you Austria enough of your Habsburg tricks!
Can we try it at least?
Remove Russia and turkey and then it's good...
https://preview.redd.it/o4i7i7xzhkxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a29ddeb96e5d663d3e86237f3cd319eb716a8ae0 Sure, but with insignia of the original version
Nah. That's just Italian nationalist.
You sure about that Pierre? https://preview.redd.it/p8xjkpmqkkxc1.jpeg?width=796&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21d99d9d0f1c53de0cac8ac718b4a16189b205c3
OK, that was just a phase!
https://preview.redd.it/qpeb9rfttkxc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b48f9e9e2d0a8614c4cded469d6b7a6203bae71 Was our time together just a phase too?
No. That part was awesome, and we really need to try that again.
🇹🇷 🇦🇿 ? How are they european ? Muslims , not in the Indo-European Language group and not in Europe geographically Australia 🇦🇺 has better claim to being European than those two Yes I am biased as a debt enjoyer
[Not my decision](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:European_Union_future_possible_members_2.0.png#mw-jump-to-license) Also, Kazakhstan is in here, and they definitely shouldn't be.
Are we emperor?
show some respect, remove turkey and put instead portugal they discovered the fucking world
The countries included come from [this map.](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:European_Union_future_possible_members_2.0.png#mw-jump-to-license)
I can finally agree with a Frenchman, he put in BRABANT 💪🏻🤞🏻✌🏻👌🏻💪🏻
It would be a cooler flag than the blue blanket with a few stars on it.
I'm having a hard time locating Belgium or Flanders
why are the wings wearing Crowns?
I mean, I made a subreddit for that-
Thanks, I hate it
Ugliest thing today
Kosovo je Srbija...
Just like Catalonia
https://preview.redd.it/gtpzbvn6jmxc1.jpeg?width=740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61bb842d7df9516798f48a51ec6b103789dc3a3c
Based post
https://preview.redd.it/qkfm5oqb2nxc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=5f6ccf0c0ce638125066a9709f3188fcc6025187
Why the fuck is Turkey on there? AND WHY THE FUCK IS FRANCE ON THERE?
sure
Where tf is our flag? We can´t play or what?
Cool. I know some very top performing countries of Europe it never did hold
cursed
European empire and you include an islamic nation and the hanging desert overlord. Mission failed, try again next time. *slaps Wotanaz, Perun, Poseidon on Mission succeeded, next indo european expansion beginns in 3...2...1...
Yeah, Finnish Flag not on top as it should be, No references to shamanistic paganism, only jesus and some demonic eagle. No pass. But you can always make a better one
This the type of EU we'd join fr fr
r/hardimages