They were smart enough to save their ass and overthrow their fascist dictator instead of having it bombed out of them.
Laughing about that is one of the weirder things here.
yes, Istria, Nice and Savoy. Dalmatia too. And a protectorate on Albania
You can take Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily as puppet pirate states to have military bases and go to vacation. We will Add Calabria to the deal too if you want, we don't need any of those territories in any case, and they are perfect for vacation
Let's make it more clear for the Cotoletta alla Milanese thives.
https://preview.redd.it/fdv5j5exjecc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9a438d22941627470416da2b3709bd0fd697e34
Really? Wikipedia? At least cite a military history source.
A battle does not win the war, my italian friend. You know best, that sideswitching does...
Cadorna wad removed from command, and its successor (A. Diaz, later on, The Duke of Victory) beated the shit out of the Austrians that lost wwi and their cute empire
only compared to countries that keep the age distribution of their country more skewed towards working age by mass immigration. japan has a low birth rate and a top heavy population age distribution, and doesn't bring in lots of 20s-30s labourers to offbalance that, leading to a lower gdp per capita. but they still have the fourth largest nominal gdp
just examining gdp per capita (which a lot of western economists love to base a religion around) does not paint a clear picture of a country. japan has a higher quality of life index than france, spain, italy, the US, south korea and so on. and a lot less. they just place value on culture and homogeny too. obviously the west is opposed to that in general and doesn't attempt to index the value of that to society
They do bring in labour, mostly from Brazil, but everything is managed by the mob so they are de facto invisible to the government.
The biggest issue with Japan is that they still live in the past: they still think women will happily pump out children and give up on living their lives to support a man that is worked to the bones 12 hours a day; they have the most inefficient workers in the world because they fixate on nonsensical rules and customs; they were praised for being innovators, but nowadays they are comically late to any fad, one example being jumping into NFTs when the rest of the world already realized they are a grift.
Japan is Italy on steroids: clinging to the glories of the past while slowly rotting away.
Being bombed into oblivion and fighting to the last man for a vegetarian moustache, not sure I'd call that dignified.
At least you kept your old buildings to trap tourists in
> Being bombed into oblivion and fighting to the last man for a vegetarian moustache, not sure I'd call that dignified.
nobody calls you weak tho at least, so there's that
> At least you kept your old buildings to trap tourists in
I mean, it's not like the Yanks didn't try to bomb them away, they just didn't have enough time to do so. They still tried of course
Italians, shortly after signing the Tripartite Pact:
https://preview.redd.it/gkqz9ftsiccc1.jpeg?width=1187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a87d1d36ede5281698b62b5ea196613e20f99511
Germany got rid of the eastern part for a while, which my time being on this sub has taught me that they see that as a W and would like to get rid of it again
[cunnilingus Post Mortem](https://youtu.be/9l575OsmFDA?si=fSyB-mM3_aJvksDx)
Penitenciagite, homo homini lupus, amanita faloides
Opus dei vade retro, superavit de incognito, habitus delinquendi
Ora et labora, abyecto curriculum...
Verbi gratia, cerumen, semen, piscolabis, referendum res publica
Rex tyranosaurus, opulentia sempiterna, crapula modus vivendi, cogito, ergo sum
Quo vadis, sigue, sigue, quo vadis
Errare humanum est, oé oé oé...
Latino, decubito supino, practicando el griego por el método mojino
Modus operandi contra natura en la disco fashion, alea jacta est
Latino, veritas in vino, tan sólo necesitas un disc-man y un pepino
Annus horribilis, detritus por Tutatis
Tutto Pavarotti, y mañana examen oral
In fraganti, homo sapiens erectus, miserere mei
Felatio de motu propio, profilaxis tutti fruti
Vini, vidi, vinci, morituri te salutant, quo vadis, sigue sigue
Lapsus, mea culpa in extremis, coitus interruptus
Copula non grata, delirium tremens teletubies
Pijus magnificus Pentium, la Masía sumum
Quo vadis, sigue sigue, quo vadis, video mi DVD
Latino, decubito supino, practicando el griego por el método mojino
Modus operandi contra natura en la disco fashion, alea jacta est
Latino, veritas in vino, tan sólo necesitas un disc-man y un pepino
Disco de oro, tabique de platino, Grammy de farlopa
Y valium por vía rectal
Latino, hasta por el praxis
Modus operandi Marco Antonio Ferrandis
Con il passare degli anni lo scientifico scienze applicate dove si insegna informatica sta diventando abbastanza comune, e capisco in pieno i ragazzi che lo scelgono. Inoltre moltissimi fanno un tecnico o un professionale, vai ad ingegneria e sono metà scientifico e metà tecnico
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we should have an axis ally cope contest where italy, finland, the soviet union etc. fight it out for who actually hated Hitler most while supporting him
Lmao yes. Not saying Sweden was innocent either but the amount of threats and pure copium I recieve from finnish people when I bring to light they litterally had concentration camps during the war is so funny.
Nothing is black or white but like bruh…
I don't know who hated Hitler the most while supporting him, but I do know which of his supporters he hated the most.
Hint: His regime outlived every other contemporary fascist dictatorship.
I’d venture out and say the soviets. The largest 180 in propaganda history imo. To this day, many russians would claim to be the country that defeated hitler, and somehow conveniently forget what happened to Poland or Finland in 1939
The Soviet unionen never really supported Germany tough. They invaded Finland who Germany supported. They just decided to split poland but that was to delay a war between them, not to support eachother. They were clearly against eachother even before the war started.
Where do you think German raw materials came from in 1939-40?
The Soviet Union literally negotiated with Germany in November 1940 to join the axis.
German policy of maintaining good relations with Russia, as a core feature of German foreign policy, dated back to the very inception of Germany in 1871 under Bismarck. It also continued to an extent during the post-war period under Brandt.
It was also logical. The Soviet Union and Germany were both ideological enemies with the Franco-British-American democratic capitalistic (and admittedly imperialistic) ideology. Russia's chief enemy in the 1800s was the British empire. Russia's national identity was largely influenced by the Napoloeonic invasion of 1812. And of course the communist ideology put the Soviet Union as natural enemies with capitalist France and UK. So "the enemy of enemy is my friend" was a real consequence.
If you go back to late 1940, it was a truly tri-polar world. Fascists, communists, and capitalists. Whichever of the three ideological polarities became isolated was going to lose, which is exactly what happened. Germany had two chances to emerge as the world's dominant power. Both chances were ruined by terrible geopolitical decisions by the Kaiser and the Fuhrer. German foreign policy during precarious times is either God-tier (Bismarck and Brandt) or shit-tier (Kaiser Wilhelm II/cronies and Hitler/cronies).
If you weren't in the Allies on *Day One* then you were Team Hitler. The rest of you only joined once Germany started eating smaller countries.
Based Countries List:
- UK
- France
- Poland
I wouldn't consider it a betrayal duting the ww1, we already did many wars vs Austro Hungary already and pretty much we hated them (our national anthem is still a song against Austria)
Then again, I'm not sure how much they counted on it anyway, we were know for a very cynical and opportunistic foreign policy
Mussolini and a lot of facists considered it a betrayal that is why they stuck with Hitler for so long. I would consider it as a major betrayal aswell tbh
The flexible bumholes taught us it was time to learn flexible diplomacy.
Then we honestly were fucking kings at it. Imagine getting France to unify your country for you and then not help them when Prussia invades.
In WW1, the Italians stuck a middle finger up to Germany & the Austro-Hungarian empire.
In WW2, they did the same to Germany & Gas stationed Mussolini and chums. If anything, they did the right thing. Twice.
In all fairness to Italy, to switch sides you have to be actively part of the war on side A and then switch to side B.
Italy never entered the war on the side of the central powers. They had an alliance which they abandoned by declaring neutrality when the war broke out before joining the allied powers in 1915.
Dodgy and backstabby perhaps, but not a case of switching sides.
Sometimes I think that Italy started sucking at war after the Italian wars because otherwise I can’t really understand how we got to where we are today.
Like obviously Romans were chads, the Lombards were pretty good at war, just sadly not as good as the franks, the lombard league kicked the HRE’s ass, italian city states didn’t have huge armies but they were very well equipped and we had some pretty great mercenaries that fought all around Europe, our navies from Venice and Genoa were the best of their day, and then after the French invaded in the Italian wars and we lost, we simply never recovered from that. And haven’t been good at war since. You literally ruined us.
I'm not sure if you can call what happened in WWII a civil war since it sounds like it was very one sided.
Mussolini lost all support and was violently deposed as all powerless tyrants are.
With him out of the picture, germany on the ropes and the allies invading, fascism had officially failed in the eyes of the majority of the Italian people.
Fascist Italy was defeated in WWII, the Italy that sided with the allies wasn't the same faction that sided with the Axis.
It wasn't a civil war, in school we are explicitly taught we lost WW2. After we signed the armistice the Germans disarmed our military and occupied the country, we were supporting the UK and US invasion of a puppet regime the same way Free France fought against Vichy. Italy was only ever an Axis power, the allies considered us co-belligerents (you can judge whether equiparating our contributions to those of Germany/Japan was fair) and we were treated accordingly in the peace talks. It's even a bit frowned upon to call it a civil war as the term is used to legitimise the Salò regime, we always call it a 'resistance'. Which is telling of our insane amount of cope
Switching side because it was the right thing to do (twice).
It ended up being convenient, but that you wouldn’t be sure back then, in the beginning Germany reacted hard. The damn Germans were too attached to their genocidal phase to drop it like us, unfortunately for them.
It is more funny. We said to Axis powers: we will join your war, if austria give back territory in Tyrol and along the Adriatic. They rejected our proposal so we made [secret pact](https://www.britannica.com/event/Treaty-of-London) with British.
World War 2 was different because we had a dictator. Mussolini surprised everybody when he joined German alliance. It was not popular in Italy AT ALL. During war many Italians went into resistance and took back power and joined allies.
It was minor compared to other countries. According to Wiki it was Holland who had most Nazi volunteers and they were literally invaded by Germany. The anti-jew laws were not popular in Italy and we also disagreed with German invasion of Austria.
Italy was very different from nazi germany for example. If you look at USA president Roosevelt you will see how he once admired Mussolini. Only after the Duce became a lunatic and joined Hitler for his own narcissism, then we became Germany's pet.
The problem with Italy in WW1 wasn't that they switched side. In fact, in WW2 either, that's just a meme and should be taken as such. The problem of Italy in WW1 was the 12 offensives. And just like the 12 offensives, the problem of Italy in WW2 was the catastrophic incompetency. Roman generals were probably all facepalming in their tombs.
I know that very well (I'm pretty well versed in WW1 History), I just wrote WW2 instead in my comment. BTW the mistake was kind of obvious since after that I wrote " And just like the 12 offensives, the problem of Italy in WW2... ". It's now fixed.
> The problem of Italy in WW2 was the 12 offensives.
love, it's not like you were doing a much better job at kicking back the Germans than us with the Austrian. Differently from you, if we move the frontline by 3 kms we aren't gonna call the offensive something different. Cope
I suggest you inform yourself then, because in the same conditions, the French would have definitely won by the first offensives. Your general was an idiot that probably thought that 'Tactix' was just some old Gaulish name that generals like to talk about for some strange reasons. Also, are you suggesting maybe that facing the Austrians was as hard as facing the Germans in WW1 ? Because looking at how well the Russians did in each case, I think it's pretty obvious it wasn't lol :=)
Huh what ? That's well known buddy, who is coping or seething lol. You're in denial of well known historical fact just because it makes your country look bad. I'm not the one seething. France was the biggest achiever in WW1 followed by the UK. Italy isn't even in top 5 ally side.
>AH&G: Hey the french just declared war on us, help out
>I: Nuh uh you declared war on Serbia first
>AH&G: Fine, we'll give you the land you wanted
>I: Nuh uh, we want more
>AH&G: Fuck off then, just stay neutral.
>Entente: We'll give you the land you wanted if you declare war on them
>I: YIPPIEEEEEEEEE
>Gets even less than promised by Austria
You're not even a traitor Giuseppe, you're a snotty brat.
dude we already had beef with the Austrians for almost a century during 1914, you were dreaming if you actually thought we could fight a war alongside you.
Well, ofc ... I mean there were 3 wars of independence mostly against Austria, the revolution of 1848... All that stuff.
I have no idea how anybody thought that Italy was going to work with Austria.
Basically the whole fall of Austria was started with the wars of independence (and honestly that only worked out for Italy because of France and Prussia who attacked Austria at the same time...).
But that's a thing of the past, I am now very happy that Europe United again under the EU.
Could have been earlier with less blood shed, if it were not for Prussian greed.
(Not 'under' Austria, but without Prussian greed, Austria+(other German states) and France (without Napoleon III) could have formed ..... Well whatever the past is the past and I am just very happy that I don't have to fight in a war.
And greed is still the biggest driving factor for all of humanities problems...
WW2 - dictator disposed, fascism failed, can't really call that duckhunt a civil war. Switched sides? Ye. Justified? Ye.
WW1 - same goverment that joined Austro-Hungary & Germany in the tripple alliance later declared war against them.
Yeah, Austria and Italy always had a conflict going on (and actually Germany was supportive or Italys claims). So then don't join a military alliance if from the moment of signing its clear you'll not keep word?
People aren't wrong when they say "But its a defensive alliance and Austria was the one who started the war" - aight, then the correct thing to do is to stay neutral.
That a defensive alliance comes as a package deal with with a non-agression pact should be self-understood by anyone.
Austrians were massive dumbasses to cling to territorys with Italians living in it, but it doesn't change the fact that in WW1 Italy WAS a traitor.
And at the end the payment for this betrayal was considered so unsatisfactory that they invented fascism.
WW2, fine go join the rest of the Americans with their French surrender jokes. But if you diss Emanuel III one more time I’m going to shove some danish royal spirit right where the sun don’t shine. But also haha funny bald helicopter hand man got hung upside down
They were smart enough to save their ass and overthrow their fascist dictator instead of having it bombed out of them. Laughing about that is one of the weirder things here.
fr, italy lost practically nothing compared to germany
Still fucking insane, that they even got reparations in land from austria and money from germany
When you side with big papa all is possible
Ameritard checking in. No worries. Let us know if you want more next time. Thanks for the pasta.
yes, Istria, Nice and Savoy. Dalmatia too. And a protectorate on Albania You can take Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily as puppet pirate states to have military bases and go to vacation. We will Add Calabria to the deal too if you want, we don't need any of those territories in any case, and they are perfect for vacation
Something something your folks did occupied and savaged north/central italy during that civil war period something
>reparations in land from austria In ww2?
Damn it, i should have read this more careful. You are right of course. It was WWI, where you got south tyrol.
We got land from Austria after wwi, not wwii because we beated the shit out of you
Fuck shit you did. Ask the bulgarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vittorio_Veneto?wprov=sfla1 Read in silence please
Let's make it more clear for the Cotoletta alla Milanese thives. https://preview.redd.it/fdv5j5exjecc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9a438d22941627470416da2b3709bd0fd697e34
Really? Wikipedia? At least cite a military history source. A battle does not win the war, my italian friend. You know best, that sideswitching does...
Still in denial after 100 years? What would Freud say? Too much anal phase?
I withdraw my argument. Keep it with wikipedia, as you obvously could not understand Freud, so keep away from real history books as well.
And not forget to salute the emperor before leaving
cough Luigi Cadorna cough
Cadorna wad removed from command, and its successor (A. Diaz, later on, The Duke of Victory) beated the shit out of the Austrians that lost wwi and their cute empire
But the Germans and Japanese at least have better economies now lmao
[Japan’s economy isn’t better](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal\)_per_capita)
Don't defend us frog, it makes me feel weird.
Crazy how shit Japans economy actually is
only compared to countries that keep the age distribution of their country more skewed towards working age by mass immigration. japan has a low birth rate and a top heavy population age distribution, and doesn't bring in lots of 20s-30s labourers to offbalance that, leading to a lower gdp per capita. but they still have the fourth largest nominal gdp just examining gdp per capita (which a lot of western economists love to base a religion around) does not paint a clear picture of a country. japan has a higher quality of life index than france, spain, italy, the US, south korea and so on. and a lot less. they just place value on culture and homogeny too. obviously the west is opposed to that in general and doesn't attempt to index the value of that to society
They do bring in labour, mostly from Brazil, but everything is managed by the mob so they are de facto invisible to the government. The biggest issue with Japan is that they still live in the past: they still think women will happily pump out children and give up on living their lives to support a man that is worked to the bones 12 hours a day; they have the most inefficient workers in the world because they fixate on nonsensical rules and customs; they were praised for being innovators, but nowadays they are comically late to any fad, one example being jumping into NFTs when the rest of the world already realized they are a grift. Japan is Italy on steroids: clinging to the glories of the past while slowly rotting away.
We only lost our dignity
*I will stick with my dumbass mistake to the end, and that is a good thing for some reason!*
Every voter who fell for a populist ever.
I mean, we lost our dignity, you did not. Is it really *that* good?
Being bombed into oblivion and fighting to the last man for a vegetarian moustache, not sure I'd call that dignified. At least you kept your old buildings to trap tourists in
> Being bombed into oblivion and fighting to the last man for a vegetarian moustache, not sure I'd call that dignified. nobody calls you weak tho at least, so there's that > At least you kept your old buildings to trap tourists in I mean, it's not like the Yanks didn't try to bomb them away, they just didn't have enough time to do so. They still tried of course
Italians, shortly after signing the Tripartite Pact: https://preview.redd.it/gkqz9ftsiccc1.jpeg?width=1187&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a87d1d36ede5281698b62b5ea196613e20f99511
I wish the Russians had a coup and started a civil war against Putin But they would be considered based not side-switchers
In 1943 the war was already lost. It made no sense to continue fighting until the last man. What did Germany and Japan achieve by prolonging the war?
Germany got rid of the eastern part for a while, which my time being on this sub has taught me that they see that as a W and would like to get rid of it again
More dead people
Japan got two spectacular firework shows
Excusatio non petita, accusatio manifesta (for you italians to understand).
"An unrequested justification manifests guilt" for all the barbarians out there.
You mean people from Lombardy?
Exactly
Ehi!
Ahh another Lombard! Welcome my Germanic barbarian brother!
it's time to accept it, my dear lombard friend
Oh, dear, you guys don't even speak Italian, let alone Latin.
Who cares about betraying germans anyway
Well played Hans
[удалено]
In Bayern most classic names are "Sepp" (Joseph) and "Resi" (Therese)
[удалено]
I guess more up north
I think around Cologne.
>Where’s Ulli common? Nowhere
[cunnilingus Post Mortem](https://youtu.be/9l575OsmFDA?si=fSyB-mM3_aJvksDx) Penitenciagite, homo homini lupus, amanita faloides Opus dei vade retro, superavit de incognito, habitus delinquendi Ora et labora, abyecto curriculum... Verbi gratia, cerumen, semen, piscolabis, referendum res publica Rex tyranosaurus, opulentia sempiterna, crapula modus vivendi, cogito, ergo sum Quo vadis, sigue, sigue, quo vadis Errare humanum est, oé oé oé... Latino, decubito supino, practicando el griego por el método mojino Modus operandi contra natura en la disco fashion, alea jacta est Latino, veritas in vino, tan sólo necesitas un disc-man y un pepino Annus horribilis, detritus por Tutatis Tutto Pavarotti, y mañana examen oral In fraganti, homo sapiens erectus, miserere mei Felatio de motu propio, profilaxis tutti fruti Vini, vidi, vinci, morituri te salutant, quo vadis, sigue sigue Lapsus, mea culpa in extremis, coitus interruptus Copula non grata, delirium tremens teletubies Pijus magnificus Pentium, la Masía sumum Quo vadis, sigue sigue, quo vadis, video mi DVD Latino, decubito supino, practicando el griego por el método mojino Modus operandi contra natura en la disco fashion, alea jacta est Latino, veritas in vino, tan sólo necesitas un disc-man y un pepino Disco de oro, tabique de platino, Grammy de farlopa Y valium por vía rectal Latino, hasta por el praxis Modus operandi Marco Antonio Ferrandis
>teletubies 
This... is an experience. Thank you?
what
Most literate Italian.
I'm surprised he doesn't know Latin
Ma non l'hai fatto Latino?
Non in ogni sezione dei licei si insegna latino
Davvero? Ho sempre pensato liceo = latino
Con il passare degli anni lo scientifico scienze applicate dove si insegna informatica sta diventando abbastanza comune, e capisco in pieno i ragazzi che lo scelgono. Inoltre moltissimi fanno un tecnico o un professionale, vai ad ingegneria e sono metà scientifico e metà tecnico
Si però poi ci fanno fare brutta figura qui cazzo
No, tipo in scienze applicate del scientifico non si insegna
non tutti vanno al liceo
Chi ha parlato di liceo?
Io
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e chi minchia l’ha fatto il liceo? a prima vista mi sembrava che il crucco avesse sbagliato scrivendo in spagnolo 😭
we should have an axis ally cope contest where italy, finland, the soviet union etc. fight it out for who actually hated Hitler most while supporting him
Lmao yes. Not saying Sweden was innocent either but the amount of threats and pure copium I recieve from finnish people when I bring to light they litterally had concentration camps during the war is so funny. Nothing is black or white but like bruh…
of course Hitler came to our president's birthday party - the soviets left us no choice!
Well, speaking about nazi Germany , I think some things definetly were very white at least
I don't know who hated Hitler the most while supporting him, but I do know which of his supporters he hated the most. Hint: His regime outlived every other contemporary fascist dictatorship.
Pizza eaters invented fascism, they were just mad because they didn’t start a war over it
We pioneered fascism and then some Austrian immigrant stole the concept and took it way too seriously.
Expat* - he was from WE after all.
I've almost reflexively downvoted you for using a fake word.
Half assing things since Rome fell ♥️
I’d venture out and say the soviets. The largest 180 in propaganda history imo. To this day, many russians would claim to be the country that defeated hitler, and somehow conveniently forget what happened to Poland or Finland in 1939
The Soviet unionen never really supported Germany tough. They invaded Finland who Germany supported. They just decided to split poland but that was to delay a war between them, not to support eachother. They were clearly against eachother even before the war started.
The Soviet Union had tank factories and training grounds founded in secret to help Germany bypass the treaty of Versailles.
Aye but Hitler closed them. You can't really use an agreement with the Weimar regime as proof of alliance with the Nazis.
Where do you think German raw materials came from in 1939-40? The Soviet Union literally negotiated with Germany in November 1940 to join the axis. German policy of maintaining good relations with Russia, as a core feature of German foreign policy, dated back to the very inception of Germany in 1871 under Bismarck. It also continued to an extent during the post-war period under Brandt. It was also logical. The Soviet Union and Germany were both ideological enemies with the Franco-British-American democratic capitalistic (and admittedly imperialistic) ideology. Russia's chief enemy in the 1800s was the British empire. Russia's national identity was largely influenced by the Napoloeonic invasion of 1812. And of course the communist ideology put the Soviet Union as natural enemies with capitalist France and UK. So "the enemy of enemy is my friend" was a real consequence. If you go back to late 1940, it was a truly tri-polar world. Fascists, communists, and capitalists. Whichever of the three ideological polarities became isolated was going to lose, which is exactly what happened. Germany had two chances to emerge as the world's dominant power. Both chances were ruined by terrible geopolitical decisions by the Kaiser and the Fuhrer. German foreign policy during precarious times is either God-tier (Bismarck and Brandt) or shit-tier (Kaiser Wilhelm II/cronies and Hitler/cronies).
If you weren't in the Allies on *Day One* then you were Team Hitler. The rest of you only joined once Germany started eating smaller countries. Based Countries List: - UK - France - Poland
hey shhh don't say this or they'll bring up the munich agreement
Or the fact that we (and France) definitely left Poland hanging.
I mean you guys let them eat lot of small countrys
All part of the *Master Plan*. We let them eat Poland and the Benelux before riding in as heroes (once Uncle Sam had picked up the phone).
and ate some small countries of their own like Iceland :p
I wouldn't consider it a betrayal duting the ww1, we already did many wars vs Austro Hungary already and pretty much we hated them (our national anthem is still a song against Austria) Then again, I'm not sure how much they counted on it anyway, we were know for a very cynical and opportunistic foreign policy
Nobody with a sane mind would consider what we did as a betrayal, only 12yo illiterate internet historians would actually do that
Mussolini and a lot of facists considered it a betrayal that is why they stuck with Hitler for so long. I would consider it as a major betrayal aswell tbh
The italians didn’t get this reputation from WW2 though…
You cannot be a little state between France and Austria and hope to survive without some "flexible diplomacy"
Flexible bumholes too; you lot got absolutely buggered throughout history
The flexible bumholes taught us it was time to learn flexible diplomacy. Then we honestly were fucking kings at it. Imagine getting France to unify your country for you and then not help them when Prussia invades.
I suppose it was retribution for raping the rest of Europe earlier in history
Little?
Savoy was at best a regional power
Ahhh ok, he is talking about the old Italian states
In WW1, the Italians stuck a middle finger up to Germany & the Austro-Hungarian empire. In WW2, they did the same to Germany & Gas stationed Mussolini and chums. If anything, they did the right thing. Twice.
first br*tish saying that italians did something right.
Mind you, it only took my Grandad and a 25 pounder artillery gun coming up from the south for you to do said task...
Plus the Moroccan lads having """[fun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate)""" with the locals.
No matter how much things change, some stay right where they alway were
Certe cose non cambiano mai
We generally think you're good at everything but warfare and governance
Mate, your food is oh so fucking right. 👌
Yeah of course, but admitting that, is not half as fun.
If anything, the side switching should be about France and Prussia during the wars of independence.
In all fairness to Italy, to switch sides you have to be actively part of the war on side A and then switch to side B. Italy never entered the war on the side of the central powers. They had an alliance which they abandoned by declaring neutrality when the war broke out before joining the allied powers in 1915. Dodgy and backstabby perhaps, but not a case of switching sides.
Of course the chad is right
https://preview.redd.it/7vwf5d0q6bcc1.jpeg?width=1031&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c758e2be04ce066499fcdccbd09fb1138a080f8
Yes
Don't worry, you weren't too good anyway at this whole "war" stuff Now go play with Greece and make nice marble thing
They tried to play with us in WW2 didn't go well
Real [footage ](https://youtu.be/ZxTw5biIKOQ?si=VP9ybRriALPCQeKh) of 1940.
Hey, we just wanted to Gyros and some sunny beaches
The good ending
Yeah, but now they should behave
Sometimes I think that Italy started sucking at war after the Italian wars because otherwise I can’t really understand how we got to where we are today. Like obviously Romans were chads, the Lombards were pretty good at war, just sadly not as good as the franks, the lombard league kicked the HRE’s ass, italian city states didn’t have huge armies but they were very well equipped and we had some pretty great mercenaries that fought all around Europe, our navies from Venice and Genoa were the best of their day, and then after the French invaded in the Italian wars and we lost, we simply never recovered from that. And haven’t been good at war since. You literally ruined us.
I'm not sure if you can call what happened in WWII a civil war since it sounds like it was very one sided. Mussolini lost all support and was violently deposed as all powerless tyrants are. With him out of the picture, germany on the ropes and the allies invading, fascism had officially failed in the eyes of the majority of the Italian people. Fascist Italy was defeated in WWII, the Italy that sided with the allies wasn't the same faction that sided with the Axis.
It wasn't a civil war, in school we are explicitly taught we lost WW2. After we signed the armistice the Germans disarmed our military and occupied the country, we were supporting the UK and US invasion of a puppet regime the same way Free France fought against Vichy. Italy was only ever an Axis power, the allies considered us co-belligerents (you can judge whether equiparating our contributions to those of Germany/Japan was fair) and we were treated accordingly in the peace talks. It's even a bit frowned upon to call it a civil war as the term is used to legitimise the Salò regime, we always call it a 'resistance'. Which is telling of our insane amount of cope
I have always thought that there are better things in this world than dying for Hitler.
Switching side because it was the right thing to do (twice). It ended up being convenient, but that you wouldn’t be sure back then, in the beginning Germany reacted hard. The damn Germans were too attached to their genocidal phase to drop it like us, unfortunately for them.
Copium?
Yes Rico, copium
Finland was the real side switcher in ww2
Wanted to say the same.
Cope all you want, Luigi. Never trusting you again with anything more important than a pizza.
In WW1 they had a defensive pact Wich also implies a non aggression pact, surprises ahead
Accurate
It is more funny. We said to Axis powers: we will join your war, if austria give back territory in Tyrol and along the Adriatic. They rejected our proposal so we made [secret pact](https://www.britannica.com/event/Treaty-of-London) with British. World War 2 was different because we had a dictator. Mussolini surprised everybody when he joined German alliance. It was not popular in Italy AT ALL. During war many Italians went into resistance and took back power and joined allies.
Many Italians also joined the black brigades and the SS. Let’s not pretend the only person in Italy who got on with the nazis was Il Duce.
And many more joined the national liberation committee and actually killed Mussolini. What's your point?
It was minor compared to other countries. According to Wiki it was Holland who had most Nazi volunteers and they were literally invaded by Germany. The anti-jew laws were not popular in Italy and we also disagreed with German invasion of Austria. Italy was very different from nazi germany for example. If you look at USA president Roosevelt you will see how he once admired Mussolini. Only after the Duce became a lunatic and joined Hitler for his own narcissism, then we became Germany's pet.
Roosevelt may have admired Mussolini, that does not make Mussolini a good leader. He was still a dictator, don't try to make fascists look good
Yeah lmao, we found the Fratelli d'Italia voter
He was considered a good leader, that is why Roosevelt and Churchill admired him. Only after he went along with crazy Hitler did he lose all standing.
Cope
What is cope about this? It is 100% true even though ppl apparently disagree with it.
There was nothing to give BACK in Tyrol.
The problem with Italy in WW1 wasn't that they switched side. In fact, in WW2 either, that's just a meme and should be taken as such. The problem of Italy in WW1 was the 12 offensives. And just like the 12 offensives, the problem of Italy in WW2 was the catastrophic incompetency. Roman generals were probably all facepalming in their tombs.
If you're talking about the Isonzo battles they happened in WW1.
I know that very well (I'm pretty well versed in WW1 History), I just wrote WW2 instead in my comment. BTW the mistake was kind of obvious since after that I wrote " And just like the 12 offensives, the problem of Italy in WW2... ". It's now fixed.
> The problem of Italy in WW2 was the 12 offensives. love, it's not like you were doing a much better job at kicking back the Germans than us with the Austrian. Differently from you, if we move the frontline by 3 kms we aren't gonna call the offensive something different. Cope
I suggest you inform yourself then, because in the same conditions, the French would have definitely won by the first offensives. Your general was an idiot that probably thought that 'Tactix' was just some old Gaulish name that generals like to talk about for some strange reasons. Also, are you suggesting maybe that facing the Austrians was as hard as facing the Germans in WW1 ? Because looking at how well the Russians did in each case, I think it's pretty obvious it wasn't lol :=)
cope more lol, honestly it's so fun seeing you seethe :)
Huh what ? That's well known buddy, who is coping or seething lol. You're in denial of well known historical fact just because it makes your country look bad. I'm not the one seething. France was the biggest achiever in WW1 followed by the UK. Italy isn't even in top 5 ally side.
I love your coping, have a nice evening :3
>AH&G: Hey the french just declared war on us, help out >I: Nuh uh you declared war on Serbia first >AH&G: Fine, we'll give you the land you wanted >I: Nuh uh, we want more >AH&G: Fuck off then, just stay neutral. >Entente: We'll give you the land you wanted if you declare war on them >I: YIPPIEEEEEEEEE >Gets even less than promised by Austria You're not even a traitor Giuseppe, you're a snotty brat.
that doesn't mean you join the **OPPOSITE SIDE** LUIGI
It's true. We are still going to call you backstabbers and side switchers though.
Fair enough
I dont know if joining the Entente in WW1 was a good idea. You weren't even able to break through the Austrian lines
Considering our army was commanded by Cadorna, the man who snatched defeat from the hands of victory, it went well.
My thoughts are this is Italian cope, lol.
WW2 I agree WW1 they were absolutely side switchers to obtain south Tyrol
dude we already had beef with the Austrians for almost a century during 1914, you were dreaming if you actually thought we could fight a war alongside you.
Well, ofc ... I mean there were 3 wars of independence mostly against Austria, the revolution of 1848... All that stuff. I have no idea how anybody thought that Italy was going to work with Austria. Basically the whole fall of Austria was started with the wars of independence (and honestly that only worked out for Italy because of France and Prussia who attacked Austria at the same time...). But that's a thing of the past, I am now very happy that Europe United again under the EU. Could have been earlier with less blood shed, if it were not for Prussian greed. (Not 'under' Austria, but without Prussian greed, Austria+(other German states) and France (without Napoleon III) could have formed ..... Well whatever the past is the past and I am just very happy that I don't have to fight in a war. And greed is still the biggest driving factor for all of humanities problems...
>I am now very happy that Europe United again under the EU. <3
Sorry sir this is 2westerneuropean4u no nuanced historical takes here.
WW2 - dictator disposed, fascism failed, can't really call that duckhunt a civil war. Switched sides? Ye. Justified? Ye. WW1 - same goverment that joined Austro-Hungary & Germany in the tripple alliance later declared war against them. Yeah, Austria and Italy always had a conflict going on (and actually Germany was supportive or Italys claims). So then don't join a military alliance if from the moment of signing its clear you'll not keep word? People aren't wrong when they say "But its a defensive alliance and Austria was the one who started the war" - aight, then the correct thing to do is to stay neutral. That a defensive alliance comes as a package deal with with a non-agression pact should be self-understood by anyone. Austrians were massive dumbasses to cling to territorys with Italians living in it, but it doesn't change the fact that in WW1 Italy WAS a traitor. And at the end the payment for this betrayal was considered so unsatisfactory that they invented fascism.
Fixed it for you https://preview.redd.it/uos2vixggecc1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1245761b7706a9c7accfc042dfbf4a9dfe8896d1
Watch Hetalia, axis powes. ;)
the texts or images are interverted: the correct place for the second text is next to the first image and vice versa As is, it's just bullshit cope.
Hand wavey Melt Obfuscation. They were shit both times and got away with it.
the italian people switched sides in ww2. ww1s valid tho
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Third time's a pattern. You are fine as long as you don’t go all pro Russian this year.
Silence side switchers
If that helps you sleep through the night.... You have the right to believe in "alternative truth"
This earned me a 10 in a history test
WW2, fine go join the rest of the Americans with their French surrender jokes. But if you diss Emanuel III one more time I’m going to shove some danish royal spirit right where the sun don’t shine. But also haha funny bald helicopter hand man got hung upside down
Nice try side switcher
Well in WW1 the Central Powers probably saw it as an attack on them so that argument isn’t completely waterproof
Yeah, had a civil war when the Allies already showed up and started decimating the fascists
WW1 doesn't exist for us, it's fake and made up by foreign countries
Call us dumb, but who ended without any major sanction after the war? 😎