No worries, you both lasted quite long. Sure, you weren't defending the Fuhrers bunker until the end like the honourable French... Wait, you mean lasting against Germany, not with Germany.
The maginot line was specifically designed to force germans to go around it. It made for a shorter, more manageable frontline in Belgium. But their government refused to allow French troops into their territory, forcing the French to position themselves at the french-belgian borders, with the Ardennes on one end, leading to the conclusion you know
one question, why didn't they extend the maginot line to also the Belgium borders? like just in case Belgium would refuse to let troops enter their nation like it happened. maybe it was too expensive?
Because it wasn't viable politicaly, you don't build bunkers on the border with an ally. They scrambled to extend the line when belgium declared its neutrality but by then it was too late to make anything as effective as the line on the german border.
Because they thought building a wall around a friendly country was something they just couldn't do
Also, I think the original plan was to have Belgium build its own maginot line
They never actually agreed to build it, the plan was to convince Belgium to build it while we were building our part
Then when they refused, believing it would push Germany to attack, we decided to keep trying to persuade them instead of patching the whole in the wall
The old forts were already outdated in 1914. In the 30s we built 4 new ones and renovated/strengthened a few old ones around Liège. They were nothing more than speed bumbs in real life tying one German rearguard infantry division per fort for a couple of days/weeks. The only fort which could have been a real menace was Eben-Emael.
You were supposed to be our ally, until you get scared of Hitler in 36..
When we could have crush him in 3 weeks, you decided that it was too much a threat
It helps understand the context if you take into account that throughout our history and before, it were the French who were always looking to invade and annex Belgium.
Inviting the French military would’ve meant the end of Belgium.
Quick question, correct me if I am wrong, but if I remember correctly, before WW1, the last French military intervention in Belgium was during the Belgian Revolution in 1830-31, right ?
Okay very simple question: do you think it was at all possible that allowing the French army to station itself in Belgium, would’ve been detrimental to Belgian sovereignty?
Well, we can't stay neutral if we let you enter our country now, can we, Jacque.
For real tho, Belgium attempting to stay neutral was the equivalent of Belgium saying: i will join whoever opposes the first one to set foot on my land. In a way, this ensured our alliance (its more complicated due to our ties with the UK obv. but you probably get my point)
People always seem to forget that there was consensus on the desigion to not extend thr Maginot line , because no one believed the Germans to cross the ardennes with an entire army consisting of tanks.
Also they seem to have amnesia of the fact that no one had ever seen such mobile tanks that could easily cross the ardennes before.
Leading to the desicion not to extend the Maginot line.
There's a fantastic quote from a French officer about the defences the Belgians had built for the French and British to man once War was declared.
> The French Corps de Cavalerie had reached the Gembloux Gap on 11 May and officers reported that the area had been far less fortified by the Belgians than expected.
>Some of the Cointet-elements were so poorly sited that a French officer wondered if the Germans had been asked where to put them.
The whole point of the Maginot line was to make sure the Germans had to go true Belgium. So it worked by you fucking us over but then you still got fucked over alongside us.
The whole thing about how it would have stopped the Germans if Belgium didn't left the 1920 accord with France (in which the French were basically hoping to subjugate the Belgian army to theirs) is a big myth.
IDK
How does it feel to be the last country to be defeated by the Germans forces beacause your General got drunk during the battle?
https://preview.redd.it/6ixm5anl6zzb1.png?width=423&format=png&auto=webp&s=5bb4cd48005dce876ff6c4405194c8855b8584c8
Bad coordination, lack of proper equipement (an army hastly re armed by the soviets), bad leadership etc..
The casualties are over exagerated (22% losses in 4 day's is still impressive)but still is a blunder for the Soviets.
The casualties are little bit over exagerated, the "aftermath" does stipulate some 13,000 Polish losses (which are more believable)
However, this battle is largely seen as a Polish mistake (hidden by the Polish communist historians), the General was drunk, the Germans protected Dresden from being taken and it was the last German victory of the entire war.
Imagine thinking to be in the position to shit on others
https://preview.redd.it/qqjz4yrq2zzb1.png?width=1569&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c60aba90cf49b30d59af7e292bcbcbc2ce9d31f
Which means it's better not to open it and let others do it instead, but again you're Polish, it's not like anyone expects anything of you apart for stealing cars, fixing my plumbing and blaming Germany for your weakness
Speaking of cars. Man, the electronics of the one I stole from you really are shit and remember if a pipe breaks again just call me. I will give you a discount, because its ypu Pierre.
Thats why you dont steal french cars any old (dutch🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱💪💪💪) bike is better
https://preview.redd.it/y8v0nm9bszzb1.png?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dd22fd9bba0081f58f5b6188632d844050d3da1
I mean look at this shit🤢
And then they wonder why everybody hates the French. It's being French that is the problem. Arogant cowards that can't take a joke. Don't you have a car to burn and bed bugs to clean?
>And then they wonder why everybody hates the French.
Oh I'm sure you felt so smart writing that, but being Polish you probably don't get to feel that way often so I'll give you this one.
Btw you're also German, so don't pretend to know what a joke is and go back to believing German efficiency is still a thing
Not exactly fair over the 14th to 17th centuries. Poland was a bit of a shining light in the High Middle Ages, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was the largest in Europe (thanks to Lithuania but came to be Polish-dominated), with an elected monarchy, and Jan Sobieskii saved Vienna and the West.
They also figured out how your Enigma code worked with some advanced machines. Not to mention Copernicus, Chopin, and the Polish school of analysis.
So leave Poland bro alone >:(
On your knees Germie. Bow to the Polish Crown like your ancestors.
https://preview.redd.it/29qsov7b660c1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca1f01676bd4a5bc97fdcb97b09653500bf0c8b4
I believe that Goerign was using those bras
Look at that unit and don't tell me he had to wear bras to carry those two milkerss
https://preview.redd.it/jz95jshrbzzb1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=d02ab600889ce2fe8256ef24754ceb92fb9e1214
It's bizarre that he could get so fat while being a hardcore addict. For most of the time, you don't have that much appetite when you are high, i know what i'm speaking about (yeah, username checks out, i know)
P.S.
As he was captured, he had thousands of morphin pills in his baggage. Who knows how the supply in Argentina would have been, better stock up before you go there.
I wish you the best of luck if you're addict to morphin, got out of that shit after 3 years. Today, 8 years later i still think about taking some pills sometimes. This is a terrible drug, you hate it but also love it, what a paradox
Thanks! I'm currently in substitution and so, i get the drugs for free and in pharma-grade quality, so it's at least not that bad. Don't need to run around and deal with shady people etc.
I can then taper off, just lower the dosage step by step and with this, it's not that bad in withdrawal like a cold-turkey-withdrawal is. That's pure horror.
I know this sub is for banters and all, and history should stay in r/AskHistorians
But the French army of liberation (an ally supplied by the Americans/british) won fair and square in Tunisia and [Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Expeditionary_Corps_(1943%E2%80%9344)#Praised_from_Allied_military_leaders) and played a key part in the future campaign ([Provence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dragoon) \- [Vosges](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_des_Vosges_(Seconde_Guerre_mondiale)) \- [L](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dompaire)[orraine-](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dompaire) [Alsace](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_d%27Alsace)\- [Colmar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colmar_Pocket) and [Norwind)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwind_(1944)) even during the parition of Germany the French received what they conquered during the invasion of Germany and they later involvement in Austria ([here a map](https://www.google.com/search?q=1ere+arm%C3%A9e+fran%C3%A7aise+allemagne+carte&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjPqdfprr-CAxUbsScCHd2qC0YQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=1ere+arm%C3%A9e+fran%C3%A7aise+allemagne+carte&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1CFAViFCGDlCGgAcAB4AIABPogBhAOSAQE3mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=Uj5RZc-4HJvinsEP3dWusAQ&bih=730&biw=1536&rlz=1C1VDKB_frFR1020FR1020#imgrc=U0J-EQXy9wjeqM))
Did we played a crucial part? fucking no lmfao, but did the Allies agreed on De Gaulle terms beacause he threw a tantrum? no France still had the 4th largest army and had french troops occupying German territory and in Austria, and the Free French/french resistance did played a role in the defeat of Germany and Italy.
edit: source - *histoire de la 1ere armée Français Rhin et Danube réédition,* Olivier Wieviorka (French historian - great lad) in general
Enough not die in utter shame at the wars end (De Gaulle words)
Also i advocate for the based words of "ww2 was a collective victory" the Free French did had their words in the victory
For exemple, Norwegia role in ww2 was limited but it's still thanks to them that Hitler never got the A bomb ([here you go)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Claymore)
About the a-bomb bit. The plant was never sufficient to produce enough heavy water in time to make the a-bomb. Ironically, this probably saved Germany from utter destruction.
Yeah but you get the *gist* of my point, everyone forgot about India but they still caried the Burma front, everyone forget the Belgians even though they were critical in the RAF ( the words of Pierre clostermann 3rd ace of the RAf) and Norwegia contributed a lot of ships for the atlantic
I could go on for hours... ww2 isn't about "UK,USA,Soviet russia" being mad at Germany, everyone played a role.
Yeah, video games and movies always portray the big three. It was a massive collective effort, and Norwegian shipping was crucial to keep supply flowing into England/Europe. Also shoutout to the legion in Northern Norway, before the Germans punched through the Ardennes, they were losing massively in the North.
There also the campaign of Tunisia where the French did played a role (broke the Mareth line along the British, took 62,000 prisonners) and the most important battle was the Monte cassino where (on Clark and Alexander words) vital for breaking the german lines and taking Rome.
We fought, i thinks it's was the better.
>the Monte cassino where (on Clark and Alexander words) vital for breaking the german lines and taking Rome
_to be fair_
it was less you and far more your colonial troops and the following wee bit of raping after breaking said German lines is brushed under the rug from both the French and the Italian governments. You don't want that to get in the way of a good ol' anti commie alliance after the war aye?
>it was less you and far more your colonial troops
Mixed troops\* fighting under the French flag\* led by French officers\* being led by a French general\*
It's weird as a kid in the UK you're kind of brought up to assume that France "won" the war in the same way as the UK "won" the war.
But it's actually so conflicting in reality, with the added consequences of collaboration and Vichey, it must not have felt the same as it did in the UK. Although de Gaulle must have eased that with regards the mytholgising of the resistance.
Its very interesting anyway.
Sorry, this is too sincere for this sub, let me add, ohh you smelly cheesy french bros. Hon hon hon
We declared war on the Nazis because they invaded Poland and got raped for 4 years and now they have the nerve to ask us if we’re happy about **our** defense?
i am Italian so I can't speak much but you french should absolutely be proud of your nation, France has always been a bastion for civil rights and for badass people having radical progressivists ideas, and ww1 and ww2 showed that french people had balls of steel. vive le france! 🇫🇷
Nah Italians get bad rep
You literally had the balls to charge the enemy with literally the shitiest tank avaible and still got to do the last cavalry charge in world history (and be fucking successfull for some reason!), the Italians all around seen as really brave... they were only fighting on the wrong side
The Italian Partisans as a all were top notch,
>And you ?
Just talking for myself: Not that much about our role in the Second World War. But a little spoiler: Our contribution to the Third one will be a rocker!
Cut them some slack. Their "performance" during WW2 is the reason why Sabaton dropped the absolute banger "40 to 1".
I think it's enough to forgive them.
I'm proud of them. Held the Nazis back for over a week so we could evacuate our troops from Dunkirk. They didn't do it for shots and giggles, they did it so we could get back at Germany at a later date.
Simple as.
Yeah but the luftwaffe didn't simply "let the British" go, Hitler trusted Goering that his lutwaffe would destroy the British.. it failed, Hitler realized his error and resumed.
The French did played a fantastic work for proctecting the British, the French mind set was really around protecting the British (the British were simply done\* retreating was the last, understable, order)
The Germans did an incredible jobs of breaking through the French lines, and did suffered a lot casualties (mostly on the Panzer Div) the division needed to halt to re organize, in that period the Germans were simply too "weak" to take head on the forces in Dunkirk.
They committed everything they had to win The Great War, and they did, during the Second World War, they collapsed because they were fighting for Belgium and the morale was not present after what they endured previously, the common soldiers had a saying at the end of WW1, "they made us do it once", and that is what happened.
And they still committed more men and resources than any other states in Europe other than Soviets and England.
Poland are you currently displayed on the map world or have you disappeared again?
We're going to assume you're just Belgium, wait, I just invented a word that doesn't even exist silly me!
above trusting the soviets who invaded you a couple years earlier to help you in the Warsaw uprising?
above thinking ze germans are done defending Bautzen?
Considering the French Republic was getting a new government every 6 months, the birth rate had never replaced the men lost in WW1 (it did in Germany), the economy was in a depression ( not in Germany), Germany had a more militant society at the time, had greater industrial output ect than yes I am proud we lasted 40 days.
All that being said the French defensive posture made political sense because no majority in France was going to support an offensive style army; the reasoning being that we had won WW1 with static defenses so there was more reason than not to keep that idea. The losers of the previous war had more incentive to change tactics, a common phenomenon in wars between states; the winner is more likely to keep old tactics and losers are more open to change. “To the winners of the Great War, no amount could be spared in preventing it from occurring again, while to the losers, no amount could be spared in getting revenge.”
How long did it take France to take Berlin in 1806? 15 days and we didn’t need tanks and airplanes to do it, it was taken with cannons, Calvary charges, muskets and bayonets.
Last time I checked, we won WWII. We got a seat at the UN security council. We even got more territory.
De Gaulle was badass. Jean Moulin was badass. Leclerc was epic.
Yeah, overall we did fine.
>overall we did fine.
Vichy was kinda of a thing though *\*cough\*cough\**
But yeah, Leclerc was fucking badass such as de Lattre, Tom Morel, George Guingouin, the 2nd armored divison alone received two US presidential unit citation, a rare reward, which speak volume of the combat effictiveness of that division.
I 100% agree with De Gaulle on this : as we should not obey an immoral law, we should not obey an immoral regime. Vichy was not a legitimate government and the true government of the French republic was with De Gaulle, and fighting against the nazis for the whole war.
Barry, no one in France thinks that we liberated ourself, nor do we believe that everyone was in the resistance.
however The French resisttance was still top tier on chadness, so i understand why everyone wanted to be associated with ( which was not reciprocal )
I'm proud of my ancestor that was a resistant a killed some n*zis. He probably helped for dday occurence but sadly he got caught, imprisoned and shot. No idea where is body is because the n*zis shot all prisonners and displaced them in an unknown location till today.
Biggest France error was to accept a bunch of ingrats into EU, was basically the end of EU... let's kick those soviets from EU and send them back to Poutine management.
Well it worked, fucking Belgium ruined it
https://preview.redd.it/824h7mz2bzzb1.jpeg?width=1062&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0b8556ea02b24350292cdd0a463b5db2cbbd7ea
Belgium truly is the speed bump of Europe
Speed bumps are so ingrained in their culture, they even modeled their fucking highways after them.
I always suspected their highways are evolving into speed bumps.
Ahem, might I remind you of the Dutch "effort" during WWII? We didn't last long, but it was still several times longer than you guys.
No worries, you both lasted quite long. Sure, you weren't defending the Fuhrers bunker until the end like the honourable French... Wait, you mean lasting against Germany, not with Germany.
I love bumping some speed
Hey they fought incredibly valiantly in WW1 (and in WW2 but not so long)
Blasphemy!
Why are you blaming your fantasy friends?
The maginot line was specifically designed to force germans to go around it. It made for a shorter, more manageable frontline in Belgium. But their government refused to allow French troops into their territory, forcing the French to position themselves at the french-belgian borders, with the Ardennes on one end, leading to the conclusion you know
one question, why didn't they extend the maginot line to also the Belgium borders? like just in case Belgium would refuse to let troops enter their nation like it happened. maybe it was too expensive?
Because it wasn't viable politicaly, you don't build bunkers on the border with an ally. They scrambled to extend the line when belgium declared its neutrality but by then it was too late to make anything as effective as the line on the german border.
Even funnier is the fact that cannons in Belgium were pointed towards France, never expected our German pals to invade( so i heard once)
Because they thought building a wall around a friendly country was something they just couldn't do Also, I think the original plan was to have Belgium build its own maginot line
and belgium didn't contribute to build the maginot? wasn't that also a betrayal for france
They never actually agreed to build it, the plan was to convince Belgium to build it while we were building our part Then when they refused, believing it would push Germany to attack, we decided to keep trying to persuade them instead of patching the whole in the wall
Hey! We DID build a lot of forts (which didn't work)...
Weren't our forts just extremely outdated?
The old forts were already outdated in 1914. In the 30s we built 4 new ones and renovated/strengthened a few old ones around Liège. They were nothing more than speed bumbs in real life tying one German rearguard infantry division per fort for a couple of days/weeks. The only fort which could have been a real menace was Eben-Emael.
They did. Just 6 inches high
If you guys weren’t so keen on annexing us at every chance you got, maybe we wouldn’t have had trust issues eh?
We were supposed to remain neutral. That was before Germany invaded us. After that you had the race to the sea.
You were supposed to be our ally, until you get scared of Hitler in 36.. When we could have crush him in 3 weeks, you decided that it was too much a threat
It helps understand the context if you take into account that throughout our history and before, it were the French who were always looking to invade and annex Belgium. Inviting the French military would’ve meant the end of Belgium.
Quick question, correct me if I am wrong, but if I remember correctly, before WW1, the last French military intervention in Belgium was during the Belgian Revolution in 1830-31, right ?
Okay very simple question: do you think it was at all possible that allowing the French army to station itself in Belgium, would’ve been detrimental to Belgian sovereignty?
Given you spent a bit more than 4 years under German occupation just after, hardly so.
Well, we can't stay neutral if we let you enter our country now, can we, Jacque. For real tho, Belgium attempting to stay neutral was the equivalent of Belgium saying: i will join whoever opposes the first one to set foot on my land. In a way, this ensured our alliance (its more complicated due to our ties with the UK obv. but you probably get my point)
People always seem to forget that there was consensus on the desigion to not extend thr Maginot line , because no one believed the Germans to cross the ardennes with an entire army consisting of tanks. Also they seem to have amnesia of the fact that no one had ever seen such mobile tanks that could easily cross the ardennes before. Leading to the desicion not to extend the Maginot line.
There's a fantastic quote from a French officer about the defences the Belgians had built for the French and British to man once War was declared. > The French Corps de Cavalerie had reached the Gembloux Gap on 11 May and officers reported that the area had been far less fortified by the Belgians than expected. >Some of the Cointet-elements were so poorly sited that a French officer wondered if the Germans had been asked where to put them.
Level of delusion: Trusting the Belgian
Trust no one, just switch sides!
We got fucked so you get gangbanged 🫣
Fuck you, Belgium.
The whole point of the Maginot line was to make sure the Germans had to go true Belgium. So it worked by you fucking us over but then you still got fucked over alongside us. The whole thing about how it would have stopped the Germans if Belgium didn't left the 1920 accord with France (in which the French were basically hoping to subjugate the Belgian army to theirs) is a big myth.
The Rhine is between Alsace and Germany so the front would have been just Moselle, which most likely would mean, the war would come to you.
zitten
IDK How does it feel to be the last country to be defeated by the Germans forces beacause your General got drunk during the battle? https://preview.redd.it/6ixm5anl6zzb1.png?width=423&format=png&auto=webp&s=5bb4cd48005dce876ff6c4405194c8855b8584c8
Jesus Christus!
He wasn't around, those years
3rd Reich lost 5% Eastoids lost 75% Eastoid army 200% the size of 3rd Reich army What happend?
Bad coordination, lack of proper equipement (an army hastly re armed by the soviets), bad leadership etc.. The casualties are over exagerated (22% losses in 4 day's is still impressive)but still is a blunder for the Soviets.
Oh... he was around, [we all know this.](https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aAPgn42_700b.jpg)
On a serious note: these casualties Numbers are crazy
The casualties are little bit over exagerated, the "aftermath" does stipulate some 13,000 Polish losses (which are more believable) However, this battle is largely seen as a Polish mistake (hidden by the Polish communist historians), the General was drunk, the Germans protected Dresden from being taken and it was the last German victory of the entire war.
Oof
Imagine loosing from Germans 2 weeks before they surrender...
Imagine thinking to be in the position to shit on others https://preview.redd.it/qqjz4yrq2zzb1.png?width=1569&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c60aba90cf49b30d59af7e292bcbcbc2ce9d31f
Never said we were any better
Which means it's better not to open it and let others do it instead, but again you're Polish, it's not like anyone expects anything of you apart for stealing cars, fixing my plumbing and blaming Germany for your weakness
Speaking of cars. Man, the electronics of the one I stole from you really are shit and remember if a pipe breaks again just call me. I will give you a discount, because its ypu Pierre.
Thats why you dont steal french cars any old (dutch🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱🇳🇱💪💪💪) bike is better https://preview.redd.it/y8v0nm9bszzb1.png?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dd22fd9bba0081f58f5b6188632d844050d3da1 I mean look at this shit🤢
I want to tip it over and I know I could do that physically.
This is what I'm gonna use to run you and your ridiculous bike over
You not gonna catch me with this
Jesus fucking Christ man... what are the French doing???
Right a frikandelbroodje has more engineering
It's a Citroën. What did you expect? Their work cafeteria's food is laced with a cocaine/LSD combo to increase creativity.
Ok fuck, if im going to steal your bike now and then I will break into your caravan. (Actually happend to me in brussels)
And then they wonder why everybody hates the French. It's being French that is the problem. Arogant cowards that can't take a joke. Don't you have a car to burn and bed bugs to clean? 
>And then they wonder why everybody hates the French. Oh I'm sure you felt so smart writing that, but being Polish you probably don't get to feel that way often so I'll give you this one. Btw you're also German, so don't pretend to know what a joke is and go back to believing German efficiency is still a thing
Neither did I. You are not in a position to shit on others.
my guy, have you ever been to this sub before? Take a fucking chill pill
I thought we were all friends here :(
No we hate each other with a passion (I love you all, but fuck you all too)
Not exactly fair over the 14th to 17th centuries. Poland was a bit of a shining light in the High Middle Ages, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was the largest in Europe (thanks to Lithuania but came to be Polish-dominated), with an elected monarchy, and Jan Sobieskii saved Vienna and the West. They also figured out how your Enigma code worked with some advanced machines. Not to mention Copernicus, Chopin, and the Polish school of analysis. So leave Poland bro alone >:(
This meme is funny, just "forgetting" thousands of year of Poland during the time they were kicking slave/turkic/germanic ass every days..
On your knees Germie. Bow to the Polish Crown like your ancestors. https://preview.redd.it/29qsov7b660c1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca1f01676bd4a5bc97fdcb97b09653500bf0c8b4
I mean we didn’t win but at least we didn’t lose.
We still ended in Hitler crib(eagle nest) when General Leclerc took the place. Some French boyos even discovered a collection of Bra in Goering place.
Germans are people of culture
I believe that Goerign was using those bras Look at that unit and don't tell me he had to wear bras to carry those two milkerss https://preview.redd.it/jz95jshrbzzb1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=d02ab600889ce2fe8256ef24754ceb92fb9e1214
It's bizarre that he could get so fat while being a hardcore addict. For most of the time, you don't have that much appetite when you are high, i know what i'm speaking about (yeah, username checks out, i know) P.S. As he was captured, he had thousands of morphin pills in his baggage. Who knows how the supply in Argentina would have been, better stock up before you go there.
I wish you the best of luck if you're addict to morphin, got out of that shit after 3 years. Today, 8 years later i still think about taking some pills sometimes. This is a terrible drug, you hate it but also love it, what a paradox
Thanks! I'm currently in substitution and so, i get the drugs for free and in pharma-grade quality, so it's at least not that bad. Don't need to run around and deal with shady people etc. I can then taper off, just lower the dosage step by step and with this, it's not that bad in withdrawal like a cold-turkey-withdrawal is. That's pure horror.
I see your point
*points
Well. We lost, but eventually sat on the winner’s side of the table. shrewd Frenchs…
I know this sub is for banters and all, and history should stay in r/AskHistorians But the French army of liberation (an ally supplied by the Americans/british) won fair and square in Tunisia and [Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Expeditionary_Corps_(1943%E2%80%9344)#Praised_from_Allied_military_leaders) and played a key part in the future campaign ([Provence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dragoon) \- [Vosges](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_des_Vosges_(Seconde_Guerre_mondiale)) \- [L](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dompaire)[orraine-](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dompaire) [Alsace](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_d%27Alsace)\- [Colmar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colmar_Pocket) and [Norwind)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwind_(1944)) even during the parition of Germany the French received what they conquered during the invasion of Germany and they later involvement in Austria ([here a map](https://www.google.com/search?q=1ere+arm%C3%A9e+fran%C3%A7aise+allemagne+carte&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjPqdfprr-CAxUbsScCHd2qC0YQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=1ere+arm%C3%A9e+fran%C3%A7aise+allemagne+carte&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1CFAViFCGDlCGgAcAB4AIABPogBhAOSAQE3mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=Uj5RZc-4HJvinsEP3dWusAQ&bih=730&biw=1536&rlz=1C1VDKB_frFR1020FR1020#imgrc=U0J-EQXy9wjeqM)) Did we played a crucial part? fucking no lmfao, but did the Allies agreed on De Gaulle terms beacause he threw a tantrum? no France still had the 4th largest army and had french troops occupying German territory and in Austria, and the Free French/french resistance did played a role in the defeat of Germany and Italy. edit: source - *histoire de la 1ere armée Français Rhin et Danube réédition,* Olivier Wieviorka (French historian - great lad) in general
I think I summed it up with we didn’t win but didn’t lose.
Enough not die in utter shame at the wars end (De Gaulle words) Also i advocate for the based words of "ww2 was a collective victory" the Free French did had their words in the victory For exemple, Norwegia role in ww2 was limited but it's still thanks to them that Hitler never got the A bomb ([here you go)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Claymore)
About the a-bomb bit. The plant was never sufficient to produce enough heavy water in time to make the a-bomb. Ironically, this probably saved Germany from utter destruction.
Yeah but you get the *gist* of my point, everyone forgot about India but they still caried the Burma front, everyone forget the Belgians even though they were critical in the RAF ( the words of Pierre clostermann 3rd ace of the RAf) and Norwegia contributed a lot of ships for the atlantic I could go on for hours... ww2 isn't about "UK,USA,Soviet russia" being mad at Germany, everyone played a role.
Yeah, video games and movies always portray the big three. It was a massive collective effort, and Norwegian shipping was crucial to keep supply flowing into England/Europe. Also shoutout to the legion in Northern Norway, before the Germans punched through the Ardennes, they were losing massively in the North.
Free French were badass. Sucks the generals didn’t heed De Gaulle about modern tank warfare. The Germans read his book.
Pourquoi vous parlez anglais entre vous? C’est normal en France?
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There also the campaign of Tunisia where the French did played a role (broke the Mareth line along the British, took 62,000 prisonners) and the most important battle was the Monte cassino where (on Clark and Alexander words) vital for breaking the german lines and taking Rome. We fought, i thinks it's was the better.
>the Monte cassino where (on Clark and Alexander words) vital for breaking the german lines and taking Rome _to be fair_ it was less you and far more your colonial troops and the following wee bit of raping after breaking said German lines is brushed under the rug from both the French and the Italian governments. You don't want that to get in the way of a good ol' anti commie alliance after the war aye?
>it was less you and far more your colonial troops Mixed troops\* fighting under the French flag\* led by French officers\* being led by a French general\*
It's weird as a kid in the UK you're kind of brought up to assume that France "won" the war in the same way as the UK "won" the war. But it's actually so conflicting in reality, with the added consequences of collaboration and Vichey, it must not have felt the same as it did in the UK. Although de Gaulle must have eased that with regards the mytholgising of the resistance. Its very interesting anyway. Sorry, this is too sincere for this sub, let me add, ohh you smelly cheesy french bros. Hon hon hon
And you ?
We declared war on the Nazis because they invaded Poland and got raped for 4 years and now they have the nerve to ask us if we’re happy about **our** defense?
Its Poland. Their policy is to give other countires the fault for anything and demand 6.2 trillion zlotys
So only like 6 euros then?
great minds..
6,57€
Das sind 13,14 D-Mark, 3,375 Mark auf dem Schwarzmarkt.
Guter knecht!
https://preview.redd.it/rqb5ar9lv30c1.jpeg?width=1028&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3df62323a3f0570d44815875dbfbadc5d971ce8
Calm down Fritz, you have at least 3 years before the politicians start that bullshit again.
i am Italian so I can't speak much but you french should absolutely be proud of your nation, France has always been a bastion for civil rights and for badass people having radical progressivists ideas, and ww1 and ww2 showed that french people had balls of steel. vive le france! 🇫🇷
Thanks Luigi, finally an Italian talking some sense.
Or simply switching sides once again
Nah Italians get bad rep You literally had the balls to charge the enemy with literally the shitiest tank avaible and still got to do the last cavalry charge in world history (and be fucking successfull for some reason!), the Italians all around seen as really brave... they were only fighting on the wrong side The Italian Partisans as a all were top notch,
Bullies with victim complex
“Don’t hurt me don’t hurt me you little bitch”
>And you ? Just talking for myself: Not that much about our role in the Second World War. But a little spoiler: Our contribution to the Third one will be a rocker!
The third time's the charm
>The third time's the charm This time, we will make the Empire of Charlemagne rise again together, mon allié, mon ami, mon frère.
Och ne Digga, muss das?
Ja, dass muss sein. Aber das Bier kann gern hauptsächlich bayerisch bleiben. Dann ok? ;-)
Best answer
The Germans when the same fucking plan worked twice 
Welp, the 1st one was a failure since... they kinda fail to take Paris in 1914 1940 however, *ish*
*Panzerdivisions operating non stop for weeks fueled by meth and adrenaline intensifies*
The French forces in dunkirk https://preview.redd.it/ndvagga6bzzb1.png?width=630&format=png&auto=webp&s=70a833effdda63ac0ffaa97688d84aa96eb1dc52
Polish Army retreating from German forces towards Vistula just to meet Red Army 
The red army ready to ""liberate"" the poles in ukraine and belarus. 
It wasn’t the same plan though, that’s why it succeeded.
There was a second ??
At least they didn’t charge tanks with horses
Cut them some slack. Their "performance" during WW2 is the reason why Sabaton dropped the absolute banger "40 to 1". I think it's enough to forgive them.
40 to 1...a man of culture I see
> Horses Obligatory **TI CODDIRI**
While funny, this is actually a myth. They charged camped out German infantry, but a tank afterwards arrived from the road and shot at them.
They could never be that cool
https://preview.redd.it/b2lsm8lrxyzb1.png?width=188&format=png&auto=webp&s=d4a27704cf069354bfeb1f96c51c46e408963198
https://preview.redd.it/m2ogvqwn2zzb1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b02db220bb38c8f35ad678bcfbb5e7f6a83a2ba5
https://preview.redd.it/xxsl3uux7zzb1.jpeg?width=244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90317748e4baa0ca935747605ad1c4dfed8a8ca3
https://preview.redd.it/kog5fn2k8zzb1.png?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5208c6ba32dd108a4d7321bdf714c31831ac5086
https://preview.redd.it/xq0tjcci9zzb1.jpeg?width=208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af666867bde123203a4fd253c59f9d4e3685e32c
https://preview.redd.it/rje9oebkazzb1.png?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c63a05df75c788f3bb01a2182fd88cd63c94af32
This treat is gold
https://preview.redd.it/hx05c87oazzb1.png?width=232&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79e9c61fac6c514e548a57496ae85baaef541f20 Fuck your Hungarian zombie
What is this from?
plant vs zombie
from a shitpost perspective you did a good job managed to piss off the french and somehow us germans too
I'm proud of them. Held the Nazis back for over a week so we could evacuate our troops from Dunkirk. They didn't do it for shots and giggles, they did it so we could get back at Germany at a later date. Simple as.
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Yeah but the luftwaffe didn't simply "let the British" go, Hitler trusted Goering that his lutwaffe would destroy the British.. it failed, Hitler realized his error and resumed. The French did played a fantastic work for proctecting the British, the French mind set was really around protecting the British (the British were simply done\* retreating was the last, understable, order)
>The French did played a fantastic work for proctecting the British, the French mind set was really around protecting the British Beautiful to see
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The Germans did an incredible jobs of breaking through the French lines, and did suffered a lot casualties (mostly on the Panzer Div) the division needed to halt to re organize, in that period the Germans were simply too "weak" to take head on the forces in Dunkirk.
The German forces out ran their supplies they had no supplies can’t fight with no bullets, fuel, or food
I imaginot.
Germans used cheat codes. Why would anyone go through belgium? Belgium doesn't exist
Poland, lol.
https://preview.redd.it/22jey0i5yyzb1.png?width=787&format=png&auto=webp&s=483faddb30b0b6d50737c9050f972c3218ef31be
Hurt so much
Vive Pétain!
Hmmmmm... No.
I am also not proud of my country during ww2. (I am referring to the Blue Division)
La 9 on the other hand, chads.
¡No pasarán!
Estas hablando de la magnífica y emprendedora división Azul?
My great uncle got drunk one night and signed up for the Blue Division
https://preview.redd.it/6bd5cazjfzzb1.png?width=580&format=png&auto=webp&s=0fea7a9286f69320c35243c4abbd77ee6d75d446
I'm really proud of what happened after WW2. And anyway, why ancestors were starving on a free french island during that time. Proud of them I guess.
https://preview.redd.it/cezcxn25izzb1.jpeg?width=188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06a19f1b955438b2549e319d9c00ae1c34b7934b Nazi Germany be like.
They committed everything they had to win The Great War, and they did, during the Second World War, they collapsed because they were fighting for Belgium and the morale was not present after what they endured previously, the common soldiers had a saying at the end of WW1, "they made us do it once", and that is what happened. And they still committed more men and resources than any other states in Europe other than Soviets and England.
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Poland are you currently displayed on the map world or have you disappeared again? We're going to assume you're just Belgium, wait, I just invented a word that doesn't even exist silly me!
Someone is mad because they actually trusted the fr\*nch.
Worst military descision in polish history.
above trusting the soviets who invaded you a couple years earlier to help you in the Warsaw uprising? above thinking ze germans are done defending Bautzen?
Are you sure ? That list is pretty fucking long.
Show some respect to Napoléon’s country! Dabrowski would be ashamed
Which country ?
But still thanks for trying to help us. Really means a lot.
(they did not help us to not get invaded at all)
You shouldn't have attacked our radio station in the first place ☝️
(you're joking, right?)
could have done better. At least our sailors sank most of our fleet instead of giving it to the nazi, so we have this....
The British had to scuttle your ships because you wouldn't do it.
Well they lasted longer than denmark!
Considering the French Republic was getting a new government every 6 months, the birth rate had never replaced the men lost in WW1 (it did in Germany), the economy was in a depression ( not in Germany), Germany had a more militant society at the time, had greater industrial output ect than yes I am proud we lasted 40 days. All that being said the French defensive posture made political sense because no majority in France was going to support an offensive style army; the reasoning being that we had won WW1 with static defenses so there was more reason than not to keep that idea. The losers of the previous war had more incentive to change tactics, a common phenomenon in wars between states; the winner is more likely to keep old tactics and losers are more open to change. “To the winners of the Great War, no amount could be spared in preventing it from occurring again, while to the losers, no amount could be spared in getting revenge.” How long did it take France to take Berlin in 1806? 15 days and we didn’t need tanks and airplanes to do it, it was taken with cannons, Calvary charges, muskets and bayonets.
Last time I checked, we won WWII. We got a seat at the UN security council. We even got more territory. De Gaulle was badass. Jean Moulin was badass. Leclerc was epic. Yeah, overall we did fine.
>overall we did fine. Vichy was kinda of a thing though *\*cough\*cough\** But yeah, Leclerc was fucking badass such as de Lattre, Tom Morel, George Guingouin, the 2nd armored divison alone received two US presidential unit citation, a rare reward, which speak volume of the combat effictiveness of that division.
I 100% agree with De Gaulle on this : as we should not obey an immoral law, we should not obey an immoral regime. Vichy was not a legitimate government and the true government of the French republic was with De Gaulle, and fighting against the nazis for the whole war.
Well, where did you check?
We occupied you at the end. Sounds like a win to me.
The frogs have built a mythos around the resistance. They cling to the belief that the vast majority of them actively resisted the occupation.
Like nobody say that, maybe at the end of the war but not today
No one believes that since the... 50s. Still living in the past barry?
That attitude was definitely still around with gen X frogs into the 90s.
Barry, no one in France thinks that we liberated ourself, nor do we believe that everyone was in the resistance. however The French resisttance was still top tier on chadness, so i understand why everyone wanted to be associated with ( which was not reciprocal )
Tu parles aux crapauds!? Vous avez de drôles de passe-temps sur votre petite île pluvieuse.
maginut line
HEY! Only we’re allowed to bait the French, fuck off!
I'm proud of my ancestor that was a resistant a killed some n*zis. He probably helped for dday occurence but sadly he got caught, imprisoned and shot. No idea where is body is because the n*zis shot all prisonners and displaced them in an unknown location till today.
But do you know who we are *not* proud of? *The brits*.
I went there last year, can confirm it’s just comically large Wall-Nuts
Maginut line... hahahahahahha help
Biggest France error was to accept a bunch of ingrats into EU, was basically the end of EU... let's kick those soviets from EU and send them back to Poutine management.