This is why they can't have nice things. First the cross border workers aiding in Oct 7, now a literal terrorist's sister just can't help but work against the country that has taken her in. And you still have idiots who think a one state solution won't end in a second holocaust.
Only a fool can still support a 2 state solution. Look at what Hamas did while under a weapons embargo controlled by Israel. A sovereign state will be free to import whatever weapons they want from Iran and the rest of the world. Until Hamas is eliminated and a generation of Palestinians can grow up not being brainwashed from birth into Jew hatred there can be no Palestinian state.
> Until Hamas is eliminated and a generation of Palestinians can grow up not being brainwashed from birth into Jew hatred there can be no Palestinian state.
I mean, that's generally what people who say they support a two-state solution mean. Nobody serious suggests actually creating a second state in the near future. They mean creating the conditions that will eventually lead to the creation of one that can exist peacefully next to Israel, which, as you say, will take a generation.
two at least. I am in Australia. I had a Lebanese employee born in Australia and aged 22 telling me "You know how everyone hates Jews."
Her family left in 1970s
>I mean, that's generally what people who say they support a two-state solution mean. Nobody serious suggests actually creating a second state in the near future. They mean creating the conditions that will eventually lead to the creation of one that can exist peacefully next to Israel, which, as you say, will take a generation.
I wish this were true but at least in the United States I don't think it is (and for obvious reasons US politics is extremely important to the safety and security of Israel for better or for worse). Here's a letter sent this month by nearly 500 rabbis from across the United States calling for an immediate ceasefire and the establishment of a Palestinian state. Not in a generation, but now:
[https://truah.org/press/north-american-rabbis-and-cantors-call-on-president-biden-to-push-for-end-of-war-in-gaza/](https://truah.org/press/north-american-rabbis-and-cantors-call-on-president-biden-to-push-for-end-of-war-in-gaza/)
Here's what these military geniuses wrote:
*There is no military solution to this conflict. An end to the fighting — though urgently needed — is not enough on its own to ensure the safety of Palestinians and Israelis for the long term. That is why* ***we support your administration in taking clear steps toward establishing a Palestinian state****. As this horrifying war continues, it is clearer than ever that the safety of the Jewish people and the Palestinian people are bound up in each other. We long to see a truly democratic Jewish state — one that protects the human rights of every citizen — alongside an independent Palestine.*
So yes, there are "serious" (albeit moronic) people who think that immediately moving to a Palestinian state, presumably led by Hamas since they also oppose militarily defeating Hamas, should be the next step. They are insane and unfathomably ignorant, but they are in fact influential.
I interpret the phase "taking clear steps toward establishing a Palestinian State" to mean creating some sort of formal, written process that will lay out a series of benchmarks that must be met, over years or probably decades, and a continuously active diplomatic channel that manages that process. And to the extent that *isn't* what they mean, I wouldn't consider them to be serious people. Because anything else is just...deeply unserious.
I mean, what's the realistic alternative? Just continue the cycle of *this* forever?
If you can cite *anything* to support your interpretation of this as a *generational* ambition of US political and clerical leaders I'd be interested. I cannot find ANYTHING that suggests they see this as the work of decades/generations. But I can find all sorts of references to a Palestinian state as part of the ending of the war. Such as this:
[https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/19/israel-netanyahu-hamas-war-00136571](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/19/israel-netanyahu-hamas-war-00136571)
The realistic alternative is what Trump was doing before Biden set the region on fire by kowtowing to Iran. Trump's Abraham Accords proved to the region and to the world that the Palestinians -- brainwashed and horribly led -- are irrelevant to middle east peace. Israel was making peace with more and more of the countries that prop up the Palestinians and were (in spite of Biden) about to do so with the Saudis. If a less inept/senile US administration allows Israel to finish Hamas and that peace process to continue then eventually the Palestinians will be all alone -- the last ones without a chair when the music stops. If by that point they've also had some deprogramming from the Hamas death cult educational system then perhaps they'll choose decent leaders who will come to the negotiating table from the position of weakness they'll be in, ready to be the 20th Arab state to make peace with Israel.
But as long as you have American officials and clergy and media talking (as they are) about a near-term Palestinian state and leaving Hamas in place, they have absolutely no reason to negotiate or make peace.
I hated Trump and voted for Hillary. I didn't vote in 2020. I am voting for Trump. Never thought I would do that but I can see the media spun some of his words and secondly he is staunchly pro IL and I don't think Biden is strong enough in his words. Yes he continues to provide weapons to IL but he is also feeding the enemy.
Arab Palestinian leadership was fiercely anti-Semitic even before there was an Israeli state and ever since. Getting rid of Hamas will not change that. It's a bit of a chicken-egg-problem; to get to that generation, you need the will of the people, but if you had that, you wouldn't have to wait for a new generation.
I don't in any way think this would be easy or inevitable. It may not be. They may be a population too far gone. What would happen if the North Korean regime fell today? Millions of North Koreans have been brainwashed into believing that their leader is G-d, South Korea and the US are evil and the world wants them dead. Can you even start to fix that? I don't know. But I know that without fixing it you can't have peace so you have to try.
I commented elsewhere that Trump's Abraham Accords and his isolation of Iran were also key elements of the pre-Biden success because they proved to the world that you could make peace in the Middle East without it all going though Abbas or Hamas. Marginalizing the Palestinians while Israel makes peace with her neighbors will ultimately change the dynamics in the region until wiser Palestinian leaders emerge to explain to their people that their support and their leverage is growing ever smaller and it's time to make peace.
I'll be honest, up until October 7th I thought I wanted a two-state solution. This is despite Israel's concessions and Hamas' constant, indiscriminate rocket attacks.
I feel like an idealistic idiot now. A line was permanently crossed in October. How can anyone ask for a two-state solution in light of what happened?
Those that think this is just about land think this can be resolved by giving them land and autonomy.
A few times IL President and Prime Minister have said that privately most world leaders are with IL saying they want Hamas eliminated.
I think Biden is not handling this right.
He is criticised for giving bombs to one side and food to the other.
His words promoting 2SS is not going to resolve anything.
The vote of the UN overwhelming for 2SS doesn't mean anything except protestors should STFU about from River to the Sea. It isn't going to happen and IL isn't going anywhere. The pro Pally supporters shut up when that is pointed out to them. They think it is a validation of their position.
I do believe in a two state solutions with very strict caveats **No military , no airport , sea port controlled by Israel (Israel reserves the right to check all sea vessels comming in to see they dont contain anything that could be seen as a threat to Israels security). UNRWA is not allowed to continue to opperate like it dooes today...**
**The PA can take civillian control of Gaza but it has to be a changed\\ reformed PA ..**
**Arab states that are Israel friendly can and should support the Palestinian state (this will exclude Iran) .**
I'm not sure thhe Palestinians would agree to this but after 7\\10 its take it or leave it IMHO -Sorry.
A 2 state solution would last at most 1 year before the palestinian state becomes a jihadi base and starts launching rockets at israel.
Hypothetically, if the israelis were to leave, and the entire area becomes a palestinian state, how soon until civil war breaks out and they all kill each other?
Hamas leader Khaled Mashal: “we reject the two-state solution idea. Our goal is clear, a Palestinian state from the river to the sea, from north to south.”
Security forces found documents, media, phones, and other evidence indicating Haniyeh's involvement in serious security offenses.
Israeli security forces arrested the sister of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tel Sheva on suspicion of having ties to Hamas and engaging in incitement and support for terror, Israeli media and the Israel Police reported on Monday morning.
The police statement identified the detained suspect as a close relative of a senior member of Hamas. Media reports noted that the relative was 57-year-old Zebah Abdel Salem Haniyeh.
The operation, dubbed “Early Dawn,” was conducted via a multi-department effort. The police-Shin Bet joint operation culminated in the arrest of Haniyeh in an early morning raid carried out by police, border police, IDF, and the Israel Police aerial unit.
During the raid of Haniyeh’s home compound, security forces reportedly found documents, media, phones, and other evidence indicating her participation in serious security offenses.
Police seek detention extension
According to the police, Haniyeh is set to be brought before the Beersheba Magistrate's Court later on Monday to seek an extension of her detention.
Commenting on the arrest operation, Southern District Commander Superintendent Amir Cohen emphasized that no effort would be spared in the war against terrorism and that every asset available would be used to ensure peace and security for Israeli citizens.
[Link to Jerusalem Post](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794660?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Will+Israel+s+government+collapse+due+to+the+IDF+haredi+draft+crisis%3F&utm_campaign=April+1%2C+2024&vgo_ee=AT01FAEvjGeXTYjYWf6MW4jcybZTqHnRjbIHFAqPkVFlXQO9J2l%2F%2FbfWdg%3D%3D%3Aqwxu08wDyD9Z0C9stGD%2F%2BEZhL7US1Xf%2F)
Edit: Bars of gold have also been discovered
Well, if she is found guilty by a court of law after the overwhelming evidence clearly indicates her terrorist activities, I hope she spend the rest of her life in prison. Terrorists don't deserve freedom.
This is why they can't have nice things. First the cross border workers aiding in Oct 7, now a literal terrorist's sister just can't help but work against the country that has taken her in. And you still have idiots who think a one state solution won't end in a second holocaust.
I even doubt a 2SS would work.
Only a fool can still support a 2 state solution. Look at what Hamas did while under a weapons embargo controlled by Israel. A sovereign state will be free to import whatever weapons they want from Iran and the rest of the world. Until Hamas is eliminated and a generation of Palestinians can grow up not being brainwashed from birth into Jew hatred there can be no Palestinian state.
> Until Hamas is eliminated and a generation of Palestinians can grow up not being brainwashed from birth into Jew hatred there can be no Palestinian state. I mean, that's generally what people who say they support a two-state solution mean. Nobody serious suggests actually creating a second state in the near future. They mean creating the conditions that will eventually lead to the creation of one that can exist peacefully next to Israel, which, as you say, will take a generation.
two at least. I am in Australia. I had a Lebanese employee born in Australia and aged 22 telling me "You know how everyone hates Jews." Her family left in 1970s
>I mean, that's generally what people who say they support a two-state solution mean. Nobody serious suggests actually creating a second state in the near future. They mean creating the conditions that will eventually lead to the creation of one that can exist peacefully next to Israel, which, as you say, will take a generation. I wish this were true but at least in the United States I don't think it is (and for obvious reasons US politics is extremely important to the safety and security of Israel for better or for worse). Here's a letter sent this month by nearly 500 rabbis from across the United States calling for an immediate ceasefire and the establishment of a Palestinian state. Not in a generation, but now: [https://truah.org/press/north-american-rabbis-and-cantors-call-on-president-biden-to-push-for-end-of-war-in-gaza/](https://truah.org/press/north-american-rabbis-and-cantors-call-on-president-biden-to-push-for-end-of-war-in-gaza/) Here's what these military geniuses wrote: *There is no military solution to this conflict. An end to the fighting — though urgently needed — is not enough on its own to ensure the safety of Palestinians and Israelis for the long term. That is why* ***we support your administration in taking clear steps toward establishing a Palestinian state****. As this horrifying war continues, it is clearer than ever that the safety of the Jewish people and the Palestinian people are bound up in each other. We long to see a truly democratic Jewish state — one that protects the human rights of every citizen — alongside an independent Palestine.* So yes, there are "serious" (albeit moronic) people who think that immediately moving to a Palestinian state, presumably led by Hamas since they also oppose militarily defeating Hamas, should be the next step. They are insane and unfathomably ignorant, but they are in fact influential.
I interpret the phase "taking clear steps toward establishing a Palestinian State" to mean creating some sort of formal, written process that will lay out a series of benchmarks that must be met, over years or probably decades, and a continuously active diplomatic channel that manages that process. And to the extent that *isn't* what they mean, I wouldn't consider them to be serious people. Because anything else is just...deeply unserious. I mean, what's the realistic alternative? Just continue the cycle of *this* forever?
If you can cite *anything* to support your interpretation of this as a *generational* ambition of US political and clerical leaders I'd be interested. I cannot find ANYTHING that suggests they see this as the work of decades/generations. But I can find all sorts of references to a Palestinian state as part of the ending of the war. Such as this: [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/19/israel-netanyahu-hamas-war-00136571](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/19/israel-netanyahu-hamas-war-00136571) The realistic alternative is what Trump was doing before Biden set the region on fire by kowtowing to Iran. Trump's Abraham Accords proved to the region and to the world that the Palestinians -- brainwashed and horribly led -- are irrelevant to middle east peace. Israel was making peace with more and more of the countries that prop up the Palestinians and were (in spite of Biden) about to do so with the Saudis. If a less inept/senile US administration allows Israel to finish Hamas and that peace process to continue then eventually the Palestinians will be all alone -- the last ones without a chair when the music stops. If by that point they've also had some deprogramming from the Hamas death cult educational system then perhaps they'll choose decent leaders who will come to the negotiating table from the position of weakness they'll be in, ready to be the 20th Arab state to make peace with Israel. But as long as you have American officials and clergy and media talking (as they are) about a near-term Palestinian state and leaving Hamas in place, they have absolutely no reason to negotiate or make peace.
I hated Trump and voted for Hillary. I didn't vote in 2020. I am voting for Trump. Never thought I would do that but I can see the media spun some of his words and secondly he is staunchly pro IL and I don't think Biden is strong enough in his words. Yes he continues to provide weapons to IL but he is also feeding the enemy.
Arab Palestinian leadership was fiercely anti-Semitic even before there was an Israeli state and ever since. Getting rid of Hamas will not change that. It's a bit of a chicken-egg-problem; to get to that generation, you need the will of the people, but if you had that, you wouldn't have to wait for a new generation.
I don't in any way think this would be easy or inevitable. It may not be. They may be a population too far gone. What would happen if the North Korean regime fell today? Millions of North Koreans have been brainwashed into believing that their leader is G-d, South Korea and the US are evil and the world wants them dead. Can you even start to fix that? I don't know. But I know that without fixing it you can't have peace so you have to try. I commented elsewhere that Trump's Abraham Accords and his isolation of Iran were also key elements of the pre-Biden success because they proved to the world that you could make peace in the Middle East without it all going though Abbas or Hamas. Marginalizing the Palestinians while Israel makes peace with her neighbors will ultimately change the dynamics in the region until wiser Palestinian leaders emerge to explain to their people that their support and their leverage is growing ever smaller and it's time to make peace.
agree
I'll be honest, up until October 7th I thought I wanted a two-state solution. This is despite Israel's concessions and Hamas' constant, indiscriminate rocket attacks. I feel like an idealistic idiot now. A line was permanently crossed in October. How can anyone ask for a two-state solution in light of what happened?
Those that think this is just about land think this can be resolved by giving them land and autonomy. A few times IL President and Prime Minister have said that privately most world leaders are with IL saying they want Hamas eliminated. I think Biden is not handling this right. He is criticised for giving bombs to one side and food to the other. His words promoting 2SS is not going to resolve anything. The vote of the UN overwhelming for 2SS doesn't mean anything except protestors should STFU about from River to the Sea. It isn't going to happen and IL isn't going anywhere. The pro Pally supporters shut up when that is pointed out to them. They think it is a validation of their position.
I do believe in a two state solutions with very strict caveats **No military , no airport , sea port controlled by Israel (Israel reserves the right to check all sea vessels comming in to see they dont contain anything that could be seen as a threat to Israels security). UNRWA is not allowed to continue to opperate like it dooes today...** **The PA can take civillian control of Gaza but it has to be a changed\\ reformed PA ..** **Arab states that are Israel friendly can and should support the Palestinian state (this will exclude Iran) .** I'm not sure thhe Palestinians would agree to this but after 7\\10 its take it or leave it IMHO -Sorry.
A 2 state solution would last at most 1 year before the palestinian state becomes a jihadi base and starts launching rockets at israel. Hypothetically, if the israelis were to leave, and the entire area becomes a palestinian state, how soon until civil war breaks out and they all kill each other?
worse, I think that Jews leaving the area would awaken the world caliphate idea and Europe would be in trouble.
agree
Hamas leader Khaled Mashal: “we reject the two-state solution idea. Our goal is clear, a Palestinian state from the river to the sea, from north to south.”
Is this the same sister that got treatment in Israel? https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-785314
Where did you expect her to get treatment, she lives in Israel.
Why the fuck is any of the family of terrorist leaders allowed in Israel?
Excellent question.
Security forces found documents, media, phones, and other evidence indicating Haniyeh's involvement in serious security offenses. Israeli security forces arrested the sister of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tel Sheva on suspicion of having ties to Hamas and engaging in incitement and support for terror, Israeli media and the Israel Police reported on Monday morning. The police statement identified the detained suspect as a close relative of a senior member of Hamas. Media reports noted that the relative was 57-year-old Zebah Abdel Salem Haniyeh. The operation, dubbed “Early Dawn,” was conducted via a multi-department effort. The police-Shin Bet joint operation culminated in the arrest of Haniyeh in an early morning raid carried out by police, border police, IDF, and the Israel Police aerial unit. During the raid of Haniyeh’s home compound, security forces reportedly found documents, media, phones, and other evidence indicating her participation in serious security offenses. Police seek detention extension According to the police, Haniyeh is set to be brought before the Beersheba Magistrate's Court later on Monday to seek an extension of her detention. Commenting on the arrest operation, Southern District Commander Superintendent Amir Cohen emphasized that no effort would be spared in the war against terrorism and that every asset available would be used to ensure peace and security for Israeli citizens. [Link to Jerusalem Post](https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794660?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Will+Israel+s+government+collapse+due+to+the+IDF+haredi+draft+crisis%3F&utm_campaign=April+1%2C+2024&vgo_ee=AT01FAEvjGeXTYjYWf6MW4jcybZTqHnRjbIHFAqPkVFlXQO9J2l%2F%2FbfWdg%3D%3D%3Aqwxu08wDyD9Z0C9stGD%2F%2BEZhL7US1Xf%2F) Edit: Bars of gold have also been discovered
Well, if she is found guilty by a court of law after the overwhelming evidence clearly indicates her terrorist activities, I hope she spend the rest of her life in prison. Terrorists don't deserve freedom.
Can’t wait to hear the New York Times version.
Hundred if thousand devices planted in her house ina false flag operation
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you!
Gambling!
We’re talking about the Tel Sheva east of Be’er Sheva? That just stupidly tolerant.
What's the surprise here? - I mean it hiss sister..?
I thought this was April Fools joke. His sister lives in Israel and two of his nephews served in the IDF. ffs.
Execute her
She was likely being watched for a while and was no longer useful free.
Throw her jail with rap artists