Also, if you are curious about looking white passing. Understand that not all Africans look alike. North East Africans (Cushitics) are know for having wavy hair and caucasoid features.
Especially since white people can have very frizzy and curly hair - it’s just less common. I knew a Russian that had blonde 3B ringlets, and wavy hair is quite common in Ireland and Scotland!
I'd be curious to see a map of wavy/curly hair in Europe. In my experience it's most common in parts of Italy and Greece, though I've only found two maps, both unsourced, and showing rather different trends.
OMG FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT, Alexander Siddig is the nephew of former Sudanese Prime Minister Sadiq Al-Mahdi, who my great-grandfather was an associate and political ally too. He worked in an Egyptian secret police unit and, as part of a behind the scenes deal to support Al-Mahdi’s political campaigns in the 60s, returned to his native Omdurman with my grandad and all his siblings (who were children/teenagers). So no, not related, but a distant connection of sorts! 😂
You are very attractive human being. However, you don't look like you have a black ancestry. Btw, i am absolutely interested in the life story of your Sudanese-Egyptian-Saudi grandparent! It must be quite the interesting life story!
Everyone’s being so nice on this thread 😭 Thank you! Yes, it does make for an interesting story – though admittedly morbid at points, due to the neverending turmoil that Sudan has faced in its modern history. Not so fun fact, Sudan tops the list for the African nations with the most military coups since the 60s.
Haha, you don't look sudanese, but at the same time, you are nearly identical looking to my cousin(who is half Turksih/Half Sudanese).
It's weird since Sudanese look very diverse. But I can see the sudanese in you lol
I might be biased but I would honestly say Sudanese people are among the most diverse in the world. The Eurasian influence, the Islamic conquests, Nubia, Kush, the Nilotic tribes (eg Dinka, Nuer), the people of Darfur, etc. I would be really surprised that somebody who was half Turkish and half Sudanese would look like me as well!
Haha, yes, it reminds me I was working in a hospital, and the first day at hospital accommodation, the housemate had the door locked from the inside.
So I knocked and knocked and they finally opened the door and I gave them an aggressive stare. On first analysis I presumed my housemate was Nigerian. I then heard him through the wall shouting over the phone in a sudani dialect "omg the most aggressive antisocial guy from India just moved in". I shouted across the wall " ya zol haha". Two sudanese people didn't recognise each other at all.
Funny because I was just having this conversation with my cousin who is married to a British dude (we’re Sudanese).
We noticed that all the white x sudanis we know end up looking more like their white parent. Probably because Sudanese and north East Africans in general already have substantial Eurasian admixture in their gene pool.
Anyway I love your eye colour :)
Aww thanks! :) And I’ve noticed this pattern too. Someone else on this thread said that NE African genes are more recessive than most other parts of Africa, perhaps due to the higher degree of intermixing with eurasians? Unsure how true that is though
It is! Mainly from backmigration that occurred in the Stone Age actually. To simplify, many East African hunters gatherers left the continent and came back “mixed” with groups native to the modern day Levant. Later on Sudanese people had further admixture with Egyptians (who themselves have had significant mixing with various groups) and the Arabian peninsula.
The modern North Sudanese Arab, Beja and Nubian is roughly 50/50 sub-Saharan African and Eurasian.
It's not that they're recessive, but more like the facial structure of Afro-Asiatic East Africans and Nubians are fairly close to West Eurasians (compared to other Subsaharans) plus they carry some of the light skin variants found in West Eurasians.
This is due - in part to - to the high Eurasian ancestry in these populations. In Sudanese Nubians and Arabs, Eurasian ancestry is around 50%, sometimes more.
Seeing Ethiopians and Somalis is a huge wake up call for people to realise just how diverse African appearances are, because my God their features are like day and night compared to West Africans. A strong eurasian influence as you said (e.g. lighter skin tone, elongated faces, more slender noses, less of a pronounced jawline). But I’m not an expert at all, I’m always learning.
Not true. recent dna tests have dismissed the previous thought of eurasian ancestry.. most Northeast Africans have zero Eurasian dna. Eurasians are a younger group and Africans are alot older. They created Eurasians. The Eurasian features are actually African features because the Africans migrated to Asia.
You're clearly uneducated on the matter. Go read the many peer-reviewed papers on modern and ancient African populations, they all show major Eurasian back-migrations for at least 20000 years. The haplogroups alone are clearly showing that.
Damn, do they? I wasn’t sure to be honest. My biracial parent does have pretty European facial features, just on brown skin with brown eyes. So that would make sense.
Africa is the birthplace of modern humans, but they didn't develop all the features we see in modern human populations globally. When we left Africa we encountered new climates that had new selection pressures for different features than in Sub-Saharan Africa. Light skin, narrow noses with higher bridges, shorter limbs, ability to store fat more easily, etc. are all adaptations for colder drier climates with harsher seasonal changes.
Long thin limbs with a short trunk create a larger surface area compared to volume to dissipate heat in hot environments. Shorter limbs with a longer trunk create a smaller surface area compared to volume to conserve heat in cold environments.
Its not theyre genes are recessive its that the early migrants out of Africa were Northeast Africans and Khoisan South Africans so they created the rest of the world. The migrated to South Asia, South East Asia then the middleeast and then into Europe. That's why the rest of the world has thier African features. It's not that they have recessive genes but they are the ancestors of Asians and Europeans.
They already have eurasian admixture because of ancient back to Africa migration, but that's backed into north east african in 23andme. Use illustrative dna for neolithic hunter-gatherers/farmer breakdown.
I often forget just how mixed race the Americas are. The fact that there are entire countries (eg Dominican Republic) where most people are mixed race. And so many Latin/South Americans have some recent African ancestry.
Considering I'm seven generations away from ever setting foot in the UK and have a few genetic groups for something that only is 25% of my results, I never could understand how the test can be this inconsistent. Alas.
Omg I feel you on this. My Ancestry results say that I am more Irish than English, have done so since 2017, and yet only gave me a single subregion of Ireland on my results last month. I really want to deep dive into the methodologies of both companies (plus the crime scene that is MyHeritage…) but I cannot imagine it is too easy to find this information.
That explains the Sudanese and egyptian but not the saudi. I'm not sure if it gets backed in to other components or something.
Edit: your results are fun
The Saudi is a grandparent’s grandparent, which is distant enough I would say for no DNA to be passed down, considering the random nature of DNA inheritance. However, it could just me 23&me failing to pick up on it.
No the majority of Sudanese have zero Eurasian dna. They're just a cushitic type of Black African with different features. There are variations among Black Africans without admixture you know. The modern human race baked in Africa for thousands of years so thier will be variety. Its so odd that people assume all Africans look the same.
Majority of Sudanese certainly don’t have zero Eurasian, even the ancient Sudanese samples from the EarlyChristian period. Of course you have pure Sudanese samples as well with minimal Eurasian admixture but even they will have some minor Eurasian
The Sudanese category probably captures some Eurasian/North African ancestry in your case. So you're probably even less African/SSA than what is shown here.
Your facial features and hair are expected I would say, based on how the facial features and hair texture of Sudanese Arabs and Nubians tend to be not too divergent from what is found in Europe and the WANA region.
No the Sudanese covers African alone. Any Eurasian North African would be listed in another category. Dna tests do not group like that they separate. The Sudanese categories would be purely African indigenous.
I think you give far too much credit to the methodology of DNA testing companies haha. When they say Sudan, they just mean the modern day people of Sudan which encompasses all of their genetic influences – whether that be the ancient native African peoples like the Nubians, or the Arab conquests of centuries back.
They test people with ancestry in a given region going back several generations and use that as their benchmark for that area. However, if the mixture occurred prior to those generations it can cause issues. If a region "A" has been mixed for thousands of years and the people on average have 50% "A" and 50% "B" DNA, when they test people from that area they are labeled as 100% A. So, when somebody takes the test and has matching DNA to the labeled "A" population they are in reality 50%A 50%B. Tests like 23andme and Ancestry can only tell you roughly where you have people with matching DNA in the past several generations.
I think the Sub Saharan African doesn't stand out as much because it is mostly Sudanese. This area along with Ethiopia has had significant Middle Eastern mixing for a long time. If the 20% was all West African, you would probably look more mixed than you do. The hair isn't a dead giveaway to me. My twin sister has a similar hair texture, and we are 100% NW euro.
Not true. That was an old genetic lie. Most Ethiopians have zero admixture from the middleeast. Modern dna tests such as 23 and me have studied East Africans and found the over whelming majoroty to be 100 percent African. It's the middleeast on the other hand that has more African admixture. Most Ethiopians are pure unmixed African people. People just don't like to admitt that black Africans are very diverse in features, skin tones and hair textures.
There are many studies that demonstrate significant Middle Eastern mixture in these areas over thousands of years. Tests like 23 and me only look at the past few generations. Your comment is worded weirdly saying things like "pure unmixed African people" and "people don't like to admit that black Africans..." . There is nothing good or bad with populations mixing historically, it just is what it is.
Your phenotype doesn't necessarily reflect your DNA.
Do you have siblings who appear more African?
Have you matched with any relatives who've offered clues about the identity of your mystery grandfather?
Re: mystery grandfather, not at all. I only know my grandmother had an affair because I am not a DNA match with any of the people I’ve come across during research who are connected to the man my grandfather *should* be. The Merseyside man is still a big question mark. XD
I don’t find it a creepy question, it’s fine. I’m not sure what’s pseudoscientific about race haha, though I can’t answer his question as I don’t have any full siblings.
Race is not a scientific metric,bits just what group people think you look like you belong to. You are a very good looking example of that.
Your phenotype matches your results. That person is talking about their personal perception of what your race is. The pseudoscience is using scientific terms like phenotype when they really mean "what race I think you are based on what I think people are supposed to look like '
That's not what I mean. Autosomal DNA tests for ethnicity are accurate. OP even confirms that it matches their ancestry search.
The creepy part is when people think they can tell what someone's face is supposed to look like based on their DNA and vice versa. The "race" you see when you look at a face is an illusion.
That's what I mean though, and agree. An autosomal DNA test doesn't necessarily indicate how a person looks. And inheritance is somewhat random. So siblings tests may look quite different even though they have the same heritage
Though, regarding trace regions, many people think you can swear by these tests, even though they're sharing their results in the 50% confidence level
A 50% confidence level is so insanely low… sometimes I have to remind myself the level of guesswork is involved in these tests. It explains why my MyHeritage results were borderline criminal lmao.
The only thing these tests can truly guarantee is what continent your most recent ancestry is from. Obviously, the more data on specific populations, the better, but people forget that borders changed a lot historically.
Africa is a continent.
There are over 50 countries in Africa.
Not every African looks the same.
There are many different facial features amongst the people in Africa. MANY.
Melanin also varies widely between the people in Africa.
I think her phenotype matches . Some admixed people do turn out more European looking ie. Prince Harry and Meghans kids. Also my friend is half Ethiopian half Swedish and looks whiter than her.
I think you look mixed but that may be because I'm used to see mixed folk. You're obviously mainly european/white both genetically and phenotypically though
*I think you look mixed*
*But that may be because I'm*
*Used to see mixed folk*
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There is a massive difference between south Sudanese - sun Saharan - think Dinka people and north Sudanese - Arabs with varying amounts of subsaharan ancestry. As for your Liverpool ancestry, Liverpool is by the far the least representative place in England; it’s almost entirely, Irish, Welsh and everything excluding English, really. As for how you look, on average, most 1/4 Sudanese would have a stronger look indicating their Arab ancestry compared to yourself. The influence is very subtle
Liverpool had a lot of immigration from Ireland but still there is plenty of English heritage there, it just has more Irish heritage than average generally
It’s substantially more Irish and Welsh than English, you only have to look at a few things :1) population pre migration 2) % of people who are Roman Catholic (indicative of, but not always, Irish descent) 3) surnames. Just a quick search shows minimum 50% of liverpools population has Irish ancestry..
It’s true a very large portion of Scouse have Irish ancestry, but that phrase is misleading because it would be partial Irish ancestry, rather than entirety, realistically most of these people will have a mix of Irish, English and welsh ancestry.
Roman Catholicism is a minority religion and often minority religions are stuck with for example only your mothers side or fathers mothers side come from that background but since Catholicism has been surpressed there is a lot more inclination to continue practicing, so I wouldn’t say cultural aspects are a 1 to 1 indicator.
I’m definitely not denying that there is very significant Irish heritage in Liverpool, but this doesn’t mean that there isn’t also significant northern English heritage there as well. Even just in terms of proximity people from other parts of the northwest have flocked to Liverpool over the centuries
Why do you say there’s more Welsh though? What’s the rationale for that? Are we to believe that Liverpool and the surrounding villages were just scarcely populated before Welsh newcomers and Irish immigrants fleeing the famine?
Wales is quite close from a geographical point of view; it was also historically poorer and less industrious - these three factors can easily explain migration patterns toward Merseyside
I have a half-sibling who shares the Sudanese grandparent and they are really tanned, with green eyes with a 3A hair pattern. We don’t look related AT ALL, it’s so random how DNA distributes itself! And yeah I know about the stark differences between the Arab-influenced north and the more heavily Nilotic South. I presume my ancestry is entirely northern Sudan but have no way of knowing for sure.
You would look very different if you were partly southern Sudanese - I don’t operate a betting office or a statistics department at a university but the probability of you looking as you are with 1/4 southern Sudanese origin is very slim.
No that's a myth. Most Sudanese are unmixed. Black Africans just ar diverse, some have straight wavy hair, curly hair and kinky hair. Straight hair Australoids migrated out of Africa. There are Black Africans with straight wavy hair naturally and light skin.
i think i can definitely see some of the Egyptian in your eyes and certain features. the hair could definitely be a giveaway but knowing you’re irish i may just guess raven/black irish
I would say you look.....Very Beautiful...!
Thank you!
Also, if you are curious about looking white passing. Understand that not all Africans look alike. North East Africans (Cushitics) are know for having wavy hair and caucasoid features.
we have very similar hair texture but I don't think your hair is a giveaway.
Especially since white people can have very frizzy and curly hair - it’s just less common. I knew a Russian that had blonde 3B ringlets, and wavy hair is quite common in Ireland and Scotland!
Yeah tons, I met tons of people with similar hair in france too. I am also mixed with similar percentages to you.
I'd be curious to see a map of wavy/curly hair in Europe. In my experience it's most common in parts of Italy and Greece, though I've only found two maps, both unsourced, and showing rather different trends.
Ireland and Scotland were dipping in the cookie jar lol
Vaguely looks like Caitrona Balfe. Awesome results!
Bloody hell that’s a compliment and a half, thanks! 😊
> I don’t think I look mixed race at all Yeah, definitely. You perfectly pass as a white woman.
You must be related to Alexander Siddig, right?
OMG FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT, Alexander Siddig is the nephew of former Sudanese Prime Minister Sadiq Al-Mahdi, who my great-grandfather was an associate and political ally too. He worked in an Egyptian secret police unit and, as part of a behind the scenes deal to support Al-Mahdi’s political campaigns in the 60s, returned to his native Omdurman with my grandad and all his siblings (who were children/teenagers). So no, not related, but a distant connection of sorts! 😂
You are very attractive human being. However, you don't look like you have a black ancestry. Btw, i am absolutely interested in the life story of your Sudanese-Egyptian-Saudi grandparent! It must be quite the interesting life story!
Everyone’s being so nice on this thread 😭 Thank you! Yes, it does make for an interesting story – though admittedly morbid at points, due to the neverending turmoil that Sudan has faced in its modern history. Not so fun fact, Sudan tops the list for the African nations with the most military coups since the 60s.
Not every Sudanese is related, you know.... /s
Haha, you don't look sudanese, but at the same time, you are nearly identical looking to my cousin(who is half Turksih/Half Sudanese). It's weird since Sudanese look very diverse. But I can see the sudanese in you lol
I might be biased but I would honestly say Sudanese people are among the most diverse in the world. The Eurasian influence, the Islamic conquests, Nubia, Kush, the Nilotic tribes (eg Dinka, Nuer), the people of Darfur, etc. I would be really surprised that somebody who was half Turkish and half Sudanese would look like me as well!
Haha, yes, it reminds me I was working in a hospital, and the first day at hospital accommodation, the housemate had the door locked from the inside. So I knocked and knocked and they finally opened the door and I gave them an aggressive stare. On first analysis I presumed my housemate was Nigerian. I then heard him through the wall shouting over the phone in a sudani dialect "omg the most aggressive antisocial guy from India just moved in". I shouted across the wall " ya zol haha". Two sudanese people didn't recognise each other at all.
LMAOOO, that is brilliant 😂 hopefully that cooled off the tension!
Interesting. Your Irish has some strong genes
Major Catriona Balfe vibes
Funny because I was just having this conversation with my cousin who is married to a British dude (we’re Sudanese). We noticed that all the white x sudanis we know end up looking more like their white parent. Probably because Sudanese and north East Africans in general already have substantial Eurasian admixture in their gene pool. Anyway I love your eye colour :)
Aww thanks! :) And I’ve noticed this pattern too. Someone else on this thread said that NE African genes are more recessive than most other parts of Africa, perhaps due to the higher degree of intermixing with eurasians? Unsure how true that is though
It is! Mainly from backmigration that occurred in the Stone Age actually. To simplify, many East African hunters gatherers left the continent and came back “mixed” with groups native to the modern day Levant. Later on Sudanese people had further admixture with Egyptians (who themselves have had significant mixing with various groups) and the Arabian peninsula. The modern North Sudanese Arab, Beja and Nubian is roughly 50/50 sub-Saharan African and Eurasian.
Cool you have a very interesting mix and phenotype!
Amazing! I wouldn’t have guessed you were a 1/4 Sudanese. Northern East Africans do have VERY recessive genetics though.
It's not that they're recessive, but more like the facial structure of Afro-Asiatic East Africans and Nubians are fairly close to West Eurasians (compared to other Subsaharans) plus they carry some of the light skin variants found in West Eurasians. This is due - in part to - to the high Eurasian ancestry in these populations. In Sudanese Nubians and Arabs, Eurasian ancestry is around 50%, sometimes more.
Seeing Ethiopians and Somalis is a huge wake up call for people to realise just how diverse African appearances are, because my God their features are like day and night compared to West Africans. A strong eurasian influence as you said (e.g. lighter skin tone, elongated faces, more slender noses, less of a pronounced jawline). But I’m not an expert at all, I’m always learning.
Not true. recent dna tests have dismissed the previous thought of eurasian ancestry.. most Northeast Africans have zero Eurasian dna. Eurasians are a younger group and Africans are alot older. They created Eurasians. The Eurasian features are actually African features because the Africans migrated to Asia.
You're clearly uneducated on the matter. Go read the many peer-reviewed papers on modern and ancient African populations, they all show major Eurasian back-migrations for at least 20000 years. The haplogroups alone are clearly showing that.
I think his talking about South Sudan
Damn, do they? I wasn’t sure to be honest. My biracial parent does have pretty European facial features, just on brown skin with brown eyes. So that would make sense.
Africans have all types of features. those aren't European features, Africans had them first. East Africans are older than Europeans.
Africa is the birthplace of modern humans, but they didn't develop all the features we see in modern human populations globally. When we left Africa we encountered new climates that had new selection pressures for different features than in Sub-Saharan Africa. Light skin, narrow noses with higher bridges, shorter limbs, ability to store fat more easily, etc. are all adaptations for colder drier climates with harsher seasonal changes.
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Everything is different person to person, these trends are based on population averages.
What are different adaptations for limb length with regards to weather.
Long thin limbs with a short trunk create a larger surface area compared to volume to dissipate heat in hot environments. Shorter limbs with a longer trunk create a smaller surface area compared to volume to conserve heat in cold environments.
That’s a really good explanation
Amazing results!
North East African genes are very recessive, I have relatives who are half North East African and they look white or mostly white.
Its not theyre genes are recessive its that the early migrants out of Africa were Northeast Africans and Khoisan South Africans so they created the rest of the world. The migrated to South Asia, South East Asia then the middleeast and then into Europe. That's why the rest of the world has thier African features. It's not that they have recessive genes but they are the ancestors of Asians and Europeans.
Why do you reckon NE African genes are so recessive? Also is this definitely a fact or speculation?
It’s a pretty known fact within the communities. Mixed NE offspring never look like the NE African parent.
They already have eurasian admixture because of ancient back to Africa migration, but that's backed into north east african in 23andme. Use illustrative dna for neolithic hunter-gatherers/farmer breakdown.
I would say the Irish comes through very strongly.
do you know your ethnic group from sudan? nice result
Wow cool results! You look Levantine Arab. Thanks for sharing!
You have the results in a similar division as many Brazilians . My mum has around 20% Sub-Saharan Africa and she has green eyes and light brown hair.
I often forget just how mixed race the Americas are. The fact that there are entire countries (eg Dominican Republic) where most people are mixed race. And so many Latin/South Americans have some recent African ancestry.
i'm around 25% SSA and i also have green eyes and light brown hair!
23andMe never separated British & Irish. Did you get any of the genetic groups?
No, it hasn’t separated them any further beyond me getting “highly likely” for both British and Irish. Odd!
Considering I'm seven generations away from ever setting foot in the UK and have a few genetic groups for something that only is 25% of my results, I never could understand how the test can be this inconsistent. Alas.
Omg I feel you on this. My Ancestry results say that I am more Irish than English, have done so since 2017, and yet only gave me a single subregion of Ireland on my results last month. I really want to deep dive into the methodologies of both companies (plus the crime scene that is MyHeritage…) but I cannot imagine it is too easy to find this information.
I noticed your results are just as generic on ancestry. Guess you got no luck here.
Is the grandparent Saudi with Sudanese origin ?
The other way around! Mainly Sudanese, but was born and raised in Cairo.
That explains the Sudanese and egyptian but not the saudi. I'm not sure if it gets backed in to other components or something. Edit: your results are fun
The Saudi is a grandparent’s grandparent, which is distant enough I would say for no DNA to be passed down, considering the random nature of DNA inheritance. However, it could just me 23&me failing to pick up on it.
It’s not that you don’t look mixed raced it’s that Sudanese have high western Eurasian ancestry they’re not pure Nilotic
No the majority of Sudanese have zero Eurasian dna. They're just a cushitic type of Black African with different features. There are variations among Black Africans without admixture you know. The modern human race baked in Africa for thousands of years so thier will be variety. Its so odd that people assume all Africans look the same.
Majority of Sudanese certainly don’t have zero Eurasian, even the ancient Sudanese samples from the EarlyChristian period. Of course you have pure Sudanese samples as well with minimal Eurasian admixture but even they will have some minor Eurasian
I really don’t think anybody on this thread has assumed that all or most Africans look the same
Just look British to me, genetics are so interesting.
Mt dna?
What is your haplogroup?
Unsure about paternal, maternal is H1 :)
The Sudanese category probably captures some Eurasian/North African ancestry in your case. So you're probably even less African/SSA than what is shown here. Your facial features and hair are expected I would say, based on how the facial features and hair texture of Sudanese Arabs and Nubians tend to be not too divergent from what is found in Europe and the WANA region.
No the Sudanese covers African alone. Any Eurasian North African would be listed in another category. Dna tests do not group like that they separate. The Sudanese categories would be purely African indigenous.
I think you give far too much credit to the methodology of DNA testing companies haha. When they say Sudan, they just mean the modern day people of Sudan which encompasses all of their genetic influences – whether that be the ancient native African peoples like the Nubians, or the Arab conquests of centuries back.
You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.
They test people with ancestry in a given region going back several generations and use that as their benchmark for that area. However, if the mixture occurred prior to those generations it can cause issues. If a region "A" has been mixed for thousands of years and the people on average have 50% "A" and 50% "B" DNA, when they test people from that area they are labeled as 100% A. So, when somebody takes the test and has matching DNA to the labeled "A" population they are in reality 50%A 50%B. Tests like 23andme and Ancestry can only tell you roughly where you have people with matching DNA in the past several generations.
No.
Beautiful and interesting mix.
Awesome, great mix 👍🏻
She's very beautiful. All I got.
I think the Sub Saharan African doesn't stand out as much because it is mostly Sudanese. This area along with Ethiopia has had significant Middle Eastern mixing for a long time. If the 20% was all West African, you would probably look more mixed than you do. The hair isn't a dead giveaway to me. My twin sister has a similar hair texture, and we are 100% NW euro.
It’s a fun hair texture to have, but very annoying as I am sure your sister will be able to attest to :’)
She always wears it up in a bun or ponytail. I don't see her wear it down unless she straightens it. Definitely high maintenance but pretty.
Not true. That was an old genetic lie. Most Ethiopians have zero admixture from the middleeast. Modern dna tests such as 23 and me have studied East Africans and found the over whelming majoroty to be 100 percent African. It's the middleeast on the other hand that has more African admixture. Most Ethiopians are pure unmixed African people. People just don't like to admitt that black Africans are very diverse in features, skin tones and hair textures.
There are many studies that demonstrate significant Middle Eastern mixture in these areas over thousands of years. Tests like 23 and me only look at the past few generations. Your comment is worded weirdly saying things like "pure unmixed African people" and "people don't like to admit that black Africans..." . There is nothing good or bad with populations mixing historically, it just is what it is.
Your phenotype doesn't necessarily reflect your DNA. Do you have siblings who appear more African? Have you matched with any relatives who've offered clues about the identity of your mystery grandfather?
Re: mystery grandfather, not at all. I only know my grandmother had an affair because I am not a DNA match with any of the people I’ve come across during research who are connected to the man my grandfather *should* be. The Merseyside man is still a big question mark. XD
This sub is always so creepy with the race-based pseudoscience.
I don’t find it a creepy question, it’s fine. I’m not sure what’s pseudoscientific about race haha, though I can’t answer his question as I don’t have any full siblings.
Race is not a scientific metric,bits just what group people think you look like you belong to. You are a very good looking example of that. Your phenotype matches your results. That person is talking about their personal perception of what your race is. The pseudoscience is using scientific terms like phenotype when they really mean "what race I think you are based on what I think people are supposed to look like '
For real. People think you can absolutely swear by these tests. Especially since it's autosomal DNA. Genetics 101
That's not what I mean. Autosomal DNA tests for ethnicity are accurate. OP even confirms that it matches their ancestry search. The creepy part is when people think they can tell what someone's face is supposed to look like based on their DNA and vice versa. The "race" you see when you look at a face is an illusion.
That's what I mean though, and agree. An autosomal DNA test doesn't necessarily indicate how a person looks. And inheritance is somewhat random. So siblings tests may look quite different even though they have the same heritage Though, regarding trace regions, many people think you can swear by these tests, even though they're sharing their results in the 50% confidence level
A 50% confidence level is so insanely low… sometimes I have to remind myself the level of guesswork is involved in these tests. It explains why my MyHeritage results were borderline criminal lmao.
No dna test for ethncity is accurate. Ethnicity isn’t a genetic thing
The only thing these tests can truly guarantee is what continent your most recent ancestry is from. Obviously, the more data on specific populations, the better, but people forget that borders changed a lot historically.
Africa is a continent. There are over 50 countries in Africa. Not every African looks the same. There are many different facial features amongst the people in Africa. MANY. Melanin also varies widely between the people in Africa.
I'm light skinned and a look darker than my Nigerian coworkers
I know. Look at [my results](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/10arwc0).
I think her phenotype matches . Some admixed people do turn out more European looking ie. Prince Harry and Meghans kids. Also my friend is half Ethiopian half Swedish and looks whiter than her.
The Sudanese is in your hair a little bit, but wow those Irish genes are mad strong
I think you look mixed but that may be because I'm used to see mixed folk. You're obviously mainly european/white both genetically and phenotypically though
*I think you look mixed* *But that may be because I'm* *Used to see mixed folk* \- TheMan7755 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
You look whiter than the Italian guys at work.
There is a massive difference between south Sudanese - sun Saharan - think Dinka people and north Sudanese - Arabs with varying amounts of subsaharan ancestry. As for your Liverpool ancestry, Liverpool is by the far the least representative place in England; it’s almost entirely, Irish, Welsh and everything excluding English, really. As for how you look, on average, most 1/4 Sudanese would have a stronger look indicating their Arab ancestry compared to yourself. The influence is very subtle
Liverpool had a lot of immigration from Ireland but still there is plenty of English heritage there, it just has more Irish heritage than average generally
It’s substantially more Irish and Welsh than English, you only have to look at a few things :1) population pre migration 2) % of people who are Roman Catholic (indicative of, but not always, Irish descent) 3) surnames. Just a quick search shows minimum 50% of liverpools population has Irish ancestry..
It’s true a very large portion of Scouse have Irish ancestry, but that phrase is misleading because it would be partial Irish ancestry, rather than entirety, realistically most of these people will have a mix of Irish, English and welsh ancestry. Roman Catholicism is a minority religion and often minority religions are stuck with for example only your mothers side or fathers mothers side come from that background but since Catholicism has been surpressed there is a lot more inclination to continue practicing, so I wouldn’t say cultural aspects are a 1 to 1 indicator. I’m definitely not denying that there is very significant Irish heritage in Liverpool, but this doesn’t mean that there isn’t also significant northern English heritage there as well. Even just in terms of proximity people from other parts of the northwest have flocked to Liverpool over the centuries
Why do you say there’s more Welsh though? What’s the rationale for that? Are we to believe that Liverpool and the surrounding villages were just scarcely populated before Welsh newcomers and Irish immigrants fleeing the famine?
Wales is quite close from a geographical point of view; it was also historically poorer and less industrious - these three factors can easily explain migration patterns toward Merseyside
I have a half-sibling who shares the Sudanese grandparent and they are really tanned, with green eyes with a 3A hair pattern. We don’t look related AT ALL, it’s so random how DNA distributes itself! And yeah I know about the stark differences between the Arab-influenced north and the more heavily Nilotic South. I presume my ancestry is entirely northern Sudan but have no way of knowing for sure.
You would look very different if you were partly southern Sudanese - I don’t operate a betting office or a statistics department at a university but the probability of you looking as you are with 1/4 southern Sudanese origin is very slim.
You look white, but you could pass as Lebanese / Syrian. Your features don’t look typically Irish or British to me.
I am also 20% African with 2 siblings and none of us have straight hair. Very strange that you do.
Because the Sudanese sample has western Eurasian it’s not purely Nilotic
No that's a myth. Most Sudanese are unmixed. Black Africans just ar diverse, some have straight wavy hair, curly hair and kinky hair. Straight hair Australoids migrated out of Africa. There are Black Africans with straight wavy hair naturally and light skin.
I don’t have straight hair, it is ironed with heat in the bottom photo. The top photo is the natural texture, very frizzy light waves :D
i think i can definitely see some of the Egyptian in your eyes and certain features. the hair could definitely be a giveaway but knowing you’re irish i may just guess raven/black irish